BUDAPEST, Hungary -- A Hungarian far-right politician urged the government to draw up a list of Jews who pose a "national security risk", stirring outrage among Jewish leaders who saw echoes of fascist policies that led to the Holocaust.
Marton Gyongyosi, a leader of Hungary's third-strongest political party Jobbik, said the list was necessary because of heightened tensions following the brief conflict in Gaza and should include members of parliament.

Attila Kovacs / EPA
Deputy leader of Hungary's far-right Jobbik party Marton Gyongyosi delivers a speech in Budapest on Tuesday.
Opponents have condemned frequent anti-Semitic slurs and tough rhetoric against the Roma minority by Gyongyosi's party as populist point scoring ahead of elections in 2014.
Jobbik has never called publicly for lists of Jews.
"I am a Holocaust survivor," said Gusztav Zoltai, executive director of the Hungarian Jewish Congregations' Association. "For people like me this generates raw fear, even though it is clear that this only serves political ends. This is the shame of Europe, the shame of the world."
Between 500,000 and 600,000 Hungarian Jews died in the Holocaust, according to the Holocaust Memorial Center in Budapest. According to some accounts, one in three Jews killed in Auschwitz were Hungarian nationals.
Gyongyosi's call came after Foreign Ministry State Secretary Zsolt Nemeth said Budapest favored a peaceful solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict as benefiting both Israelis with Hungarian ancestry, Hungarian Jews and Palestinians in Hungary.
Gyongyosi, who leads Jobbik's foreign policy cabinet, told Parliament: "I know how many people with Hungarian ancestry live in Israel, and how many Israeli Jews live in Hungary," according to a video posted on Jobbik's website late on Monday.
"I think such a conflict makes it timely to tally up people of Jewish ancestry who live here, especially in the Hungarian Parliament and the Hungarian government, who, indeed, pose a national security risk to Hungary."
Gyongyosi apologizes
Gyongyosi, 35, is the son of a diplomat who grew up mostly in the Middle East and Asia -- Egypt, Iraq, Afghanistan and India -- and whose office is decorated by Iranian and Turkish souvenirs. He graduated with a degree in business and political science from Trinity College in Dublin in 2000.
He worked for four years at the Dublin office of KPMG, then returned to Budapest in 2005. He has been active in Jobbik since 2006 and became their representative in parliament in 2010.
Want a European Union passport? Just invest $322,000 in Hungary
The government condemned the remarks.
"The government strictly rejects extremist, racist, anti-Semitic voices of any kind and does everything to suppress such voices," the government spokesman's office said.
Laszlo Kover, the Speaker of parliament, who is from the ruling Fidesz party, also issued a statement on Tuesday in which he called for a tightening of house rules that would allow a sanctioning of such behavior.
Gyongyosi tried to play down his comments on Tuesday, saying he was referring to citizens with dual Israeli-Hungarian citizenship.
"I apologize to my Jewish compatriots for my declarations that could be misunderstood," he said on Jobbik's website.
He later told a news conference that he would not resign and considered the matter "closed," national news agency MTI reported.
King maker?
Jobbik's anti-Semitic discourse often evokes a centuries-old blood libel - the accusation that Jews used Christians' blood in religious rituals.
"Jobbik has moved from representing medieval superstition (of the blood libel) to openly Nazi ideologies," wrote Slomo Koves, chief rabbi of the Unified Hungarian Jewish Congregation.
Jobbik registered as a political party in 2003, and gained increasing influence as it radicalized gradually, vilifying Jews and the country's 700,000 Roma.
The group gained notoriety after founding the Hungarian Guard, an unarmed vigilante group reminiscent of World War Two-era far-right groups. It entered Parliament at the 2010 elections and holds 44 of 386 seats.
The center-right government of Prime Minister Viktor Orban has struggled to pull Hungary out of recession as many European countries suffer from an economic crisis.
Orban's Fidesz has lost more than a million voters since 2010, even though it is still the strongest political force.
More than half of Hungary's electorate is undecided and having retained its voter base, some analysts say Jobbik could hold the balance of power in the 2014 elections between Fidesz and the fragmented left-wing opposition.
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Unbelievable! Seventy Five years later and it is happening again.
This guy should be executed, summarily by his government lest they appear complicit. In absence thereof, their country should be sanctioned.
Arm Chair Quarter Back,
Seventy-five years is a long time, and people have very short memories.
I hope--I pray--that we don't get a reminder in the form of history repeating itself. But blaming someone else (or a particular religious or ethnic group) for your hardships or baseless suspicion is a great deal easier than blaming yourself.
Lessons from history come hard. Now we get to see who's been paying attention...
If you're looking for ethnic cleansing, you don't have to wait for 75 years.
Hard to believe even seeing this in print.
The people and the government of Hungary should pose a political risk to this rabid dog and shoot his career down forever.
Nothing was misunderstood. You've been heard loud and clear.
I'm actually nauseous and shaking after reading this.
We Jews have a saying..."Lest we forget", and we have this saying because we will never forget what was done by the Germans, and those who love their brand of hatred. Forgiveness is an other issue, and is personal.
I"m not sure the vacuum exists today that would allow persecution of Jews in Hungary to become a national phenomena. On the other hand, many Jews in nazi Germany felt the same way concerning the third reich. It won't happen. And it did.
The reaction to this needs to be loud and clear, and as always, emotions tend to cloud the issues. Again, on the other hand, there is a place for emotions.
He sounds totalitarian - which is far LEFT.
1) Arthur....you are an idiot.
2) People have often asked when was it "too late" in Germany. The answer of course is that it was too late the second hatred was spewed by a public official...as it is now too late in Hungry. Something needs to done and it needs to be done now.
I suggest Mossad get busy...
I am a Jew and Will never forget. So here is my solution, Make every Palistian register if you make ever Jew register... My mother always told me to study history so we dont forget, and I dont forget, the 5 to 6 million Jews and another 5, 6 MIllion others the were vocal about it, or not of the RIGHT BREED, you Know Hitler's Arean race..
I am so Far-Left I am Right!!!
I could see my government having to take such measures in order to route out GOP Jewish sympathizes! As long as it gives me MORE POWER!!!!
Jay, I agree with your Mother. Study history so we don't forget. And teach it to the children. The lessons learned from the Holocaust may be applied in many situations. May God grant us the wisdom to understand.
65 members of my family including my great-grandparents,cousins, aunts and uncles, the youngest 2 months old, the eldest 72 years of age, doctors, teachers, engineers, tradesmen were murdered at the hands of people who spoke the same words as this worm. I post their names on Facebook every year on Yom Hashoah.
I will not forget, and neither will my family.
If such a list is created, it should be appended by a large print hit list of far right political, bigoted, racist nut cases.
I guess it's...comforting...? to know that the right wing is just as crazy everywhere else in the world as they are in the U.S.
Arthur, its nice of you to list your IQ too. This guy needs to be shot. Or maybe gassed would be more appropriate.
chefaz,
People around the world, Jews especially, should do all things in their power to get rid of this guy and the whole racist party.
I would suggest anybody Jewish in Hungary take this as a sign of things to come and keep your bags packed so if the need arises to get out fast, it can be done. Better to be alive and get armed so as to wreck the whole damn nation for every Hungarian if it is wrecked for you.
That has got to be the most frightening statement from the highest place I have heard in a long time!
I had a link to this site some years ago, and then my Dell died, and I lost all the links. I found it again recently, but I haven't dug to far into it. If it's the one I remember, which Steven Spielberg created in cooperation with the Hebrew University, then this is it.
http://www.spielbergfilmarchive.org.il/
I mean, Lest we forget.
Hey Bro...hey Troy...keep fighting the good fight.
I can't believe that these idiots are even aloud to gel into a political party. If Hungarians do not do something about this the Jewish population in that nation needs to take it as a sign and react accordingly.
They should start with Jobbik's blood.
Troy, don't we have similar people in America? I think about the "also-ran"s of the last election. There were some pretty whacked out ideas out there, depending on our personal views. Sure, nothing on the scale of racial lists being officially draw up, but what is racial profiling? Isn't that a topic that has been relevant in Arizona lately? With alot of these people, I think it's the same dude, different suit.
Yes we certainly do Levi. There is alot of dirt out there to weed through to determine what is a threat to a group of people and what is not. But when people start demanding a list of the names of Jews, given what we should all have learned from recent history, it should reveal something of their motives, which are obviously bad...especially in a nation like Hungary.
I liken it to a US politician demanding a list of all hispanics of Mexican decent be generated given the "threat" perceived from illegal immigration and the ongoing drug war in Mexico.(another topic entirely really) Not an exact analogy but you can imagine if a US politician demanded such a thing they would be handing in their resignation the next day....hopefully.
The whole thing is sick really and should be held to heart as an alarm for the Jews in Hungary.
Why people stand for such racist ideology anywhere in the world in this day and age is beyond me. I don't understand racial hatred at all it seems. I often question if it is a learned behavior to be racist or a learned behavior to not be racist and still cannot come to an answer worthy of putting the subject to rest in my mind. All I know is what I feel even after much thought and reflection, I really hate racist people and I always will.
As a Jew, phuck this clown. Throw him in the gas chamber.
Really, Troy? "Aloud"? Try "allowed". Jeez!
Az,
No fair, you said what I wanted to say....lol.
ABC, thanks for being my spell checker...just a bit shook up and typing fast on this one...lol.
Troy, racist ideology is the last refuge of the truly ignoble and idiotic. It conjures up images of tank-topped shaved headed young men, unwashed, guzzling whiskey and saluting nazi flags in dank basements. There is no coming out into the light, for they face such opposition they are chased back into their basements, dreaming of a day that will never come. Good place for them.
One thing I pointed out when Chefaz pointed me to this article...anti-semitic rhetoric is not an anomaly in Europe. In Germany, anti-Jewish speech is illegal. Even if that could be put to a violation of freedom of speech, it is right that Germany so limit speech.
Now, we know that there are people in the world who hate others. So this fringe politician mouths off in a way that surely inflames the sentiments of others. And the media just loves it. I never heard of this guy before. Most of us commenting here have had absolutely no idea about Hungarian politics, and happily so. Is the fix of this really for Mossad to arrange a car accident for him, as some have claimed? We've had presidential candidates say stupid stuff and didn't get elected (ring a bell?), and perhaps the proper act of this situation is that this guy doesn't get re-elected, and disappears from public life.
I too hate racism, Troy. It is ugly and demeaning, and reveals an ugly character.
Another right wing nut job!
Fire them all,
God bless you and your family. Know too that their are those of us in this world that will fight right along with you and all the Jews against people like this. Disregard the negative posts here as all the haters come out to comment on these articles and are loud and few. Just know that there are tons of us young people who know world history and the horrific things that happened to the Jews among others and will not stand for a repeat. The Holocaust is probably the biggest reason that Isreal and Jewish people the world over will always have the support of those of us in America who listened to the stories our grandfathers told us however horrifying they were.... And believe me, those stories will get past down to my children at the right time as well.
Again god bless you and your family and may those lost rest in peace.
Fascist = totalitarianism = far LEFT
Marton Gyongyosi.....
One word: ____________— (you fill in the blank).
Arthur -Here I go violating #! of the Newsvine Code of Honor but you, sir, are an ignorant cretin. If you can pull your drooling face away from Fux, and more importantly, if you can read (doubtful) look up the word fascist in the dictionary, any dictionary. Moron!
This guy needs to be run out of the Hungarian government as quickly as possible. Even to tolerate his being in their parliament when he spouts this kind of racist hatred is unacceptable. I would not be at all surprised if this guy met with some kind of fatal "accident" courtesy of the Mossad some time in the very near future. Allowing him to continue to spout his racist nonsense from a platform in his country's government should not be tolerated.
Right now, after reading the article, I am embarrassed to be Hungarian!! My grandmother came over on the boats when she was 17 from Pest, Hungary…before the 2 towns merged to Budapest!
.
Let's see how they like it if someone influential in their government draws up a list of radical right-wingers and sends that list of suspect names to their law enforcement agencies.
I agree! Freedom of speech should be reserved for the US only. it was our idea, why should other countries get to have it?
Makes me want to be a Jew just so that Butt Plug can just try something with me....It's obvious that this right-wing sphincter needs a good reaming with the ol' "Plumber's Helper!" The stuff coming from his mouth is supposed to come out the other end....maybe he likes the taste??
If nothing else, it certainly would curtail any notions of travel plans to Hungary!
Calling this psychopath far right wing is a typical lame stream media attempt to bias its reporting in favor of fuzzy thinking useful idiots. No Tea Party, Republican, or conservative proponent would agree with this demand. On the other hand, left wingers like Spike Lee, the moron that published the address for the wrong Zimmerman in the Treyvon Martin killing, don't seem to mind things like that. Gyongyosi and his fellow travellers are undoubtedly deranged, but attempting to slant the story to sling mud on people to the right of center is reprehensible.
What is so scary about the Jewish people?
They do, however, shoot missiles back at people who shoot at them first... I guess that's a bit scary!
Add this lunatic to the other far LEFT nutcases of history:
Big government fascists such as Hitler, Mussolini and Stalin!
This is a Hungarian issue. We have David Duke, does anybody listen to him? Left Right blah blah blah.
Caligura
Really? You think the fidesz party is actually conservative and right wing. Clearly you are taking a writer's word for it, but here is the whole deal.
the Fidesz party was founded as a liberal (left wing) party and began taking conservative positions because they saw an opportunity to win. I.E. they are nothing but politicians seeking any way and saying anything to gain power.
My experience has been that anytime someone uses right winger and anti-semetic that they have been indoctrinated in half truths that 10 minutes of independent research shows to be false.
Arthur, Mussolini was a fascist, Stalin was a communist. The two movements are similar, most notably in how they operate as governments and would be hard to distinguish. You are correct though, despite the historically moronic protests of Bluelake, that both are socialist ideologies and therefore more typically associated with the left rather than the right.
don't we have lists here in the usa? the census, dem or repub. I do not agree with this idiot but we do have lists that have this kind of info on it
Really, this is the first time I've heard people describing Hitler, fascism and others of their ilk as 'Far Left', and I'm dumbfounded. Yes, Stalin created a totalitarian regime, under the guise of communism. The key difference between the two wings, right and left, is the ideology that underpins it.
Extreme left is indiscriminate, it ensures a persons dictatorial hold by terror, oppression of individual liberty for all and the association that all work and individuality belongs to the state for it's benefit.
Extreme right is diametrically opposite; it relies on institution of terror and oppression on specific groups, usually ethnically different from the majority and used as a scapegoat for the perceived problems. It states that there is an innate hierarchical division in society that can be defined and thus used, a lower class that by genetics/environment deserve to be there, and higher class groups that are inherently superior.
Even when the results are the same, oppression by an individual/group of individuals, the mechanisms and profile of each is radically different. They are not both socialist ideologies; using the "Nazis were called national socialists" argument is specious and pathetic, just look at any despotic party using "the peoples republic of .....", are they presenting a government in line with the U.S. republic?
This is the most basic politics here; so basic it actual makes me despair that anyone would claim fascist groups are left wing, just to support the notion that they support a right wing party and therefore cannot associate with another on the extreme of the spectrum. People with slight left leaning ideals are no more communist than a person with slight conservative ideals is a fascist.
Shouting the loudest about 'everything bad is left' or 'everything bad is right' based on extremes is beyond ludicrous, it requires little thought or analysis. Perhaps we can all agree that fascism is bad, this guy shouldn't be given any attention or support, and hope he just fades back into the early 20th century where he belongs.
<Total government control (fascism)-----------No government control (anarchy)>
How the hell dose wanting a smaller weaker government lead to this?
Nice try hacks. This is pure Yellow Journalism. This is what the left wing does. Even Hitler's head Propagandist Joseph Gobbles tried to tell a lie enough times until people believed it.
Anyone notice the political symbol behind him is the same as the dictator's in V for Vendetta?
Since when does removing the corrupt lead to anything but better government?
Brings up the question if Hitler could be shot before he became leader of Germany, wouldn't it have been better for the world?
Is this that opportunity now? It isn't like this guy is nobody.
Of course, then there's the Middle East...
That question always seems to come up in episodes like this, but had Hitler been eliminated, Josef Stalin would have used his ideas to try and accomplish the same thing Hitler did. The world would have fought Russia instead of Germany, and I only guess the outcome would maybe have been the same.
You can't wash the radical, filthy words of hatred against the Jewish people from Islam. Wherever devout Muslims reside, their evil thoughts will follow and spread like the black plague. They will test their influence once they reach positions of political power. The free world needs to watch vigilantly!
late, learn a bit of history. Millions of jews went TO muslim lands during the dark ages fleeing christian persecution. The problems today are caused by Israel thinking it can take over the area and shove everyone else out. It doesn't justify terrorism, but comparing muslims to a disease goes too far.
The plain truth is that religious conservatives, of any creed, need to be kept away from political power.
Hmm... no. Hitler was a legally elected leader of Germany.
Do you want to go shooting everybody who you think might be bad for the world in the future?
You should look in the mirror the next time you think of Hitler.
that statement is no different from what Gyongyosi just said. No different. Hate is hate, whether it's against Jews or Muslims or "goyim".
Joe, Reading Is Fundamental. I didn't say we should do it, did I?
You should look in the mirror next time you want to make an ASSumption.
Joe,
Hitler's rise to power is way more complicated than the simplicity in your statement....much much more complicated. I would say it was one of, if not, the most carefully organized series of lies and deceit that any politician has ever fed a population.
He was so good at it that half the Germans didn't even see through the veil until the allied armies were landing on French soil and barrelling across the Russian tundra.
Alverant is correct. There was a time when Islam was more tolerant than Christian Europe. Jews, and all non-muslims, had to pay higher taxes in Muslim lands but they were otherwise left alone. I often wonder what changed. Maybe knowing that could help us better deal with the present religous conflict.
Alverant:
Thank you for your brief history lesson where Muslims oddly are seen as heroes and come out smelling like roses.
bonos_rama: I don't ever recall saying I hate Muslims you just become delusional every time someone criticizes your pets.
And you forget the teachings of that bible you pretend to believe in when it comes to hating human beings. Hating ALL muslims or ALL Jews is no different from what Hitler did. Are you excusing Hitler, then, and saying it was okay for him to hate all jews?
Good Lord, "kate", how do you live with yourself? Dehumanizing an entire group of people is vile, "kate", regardless of who you direct it towards.
The world of decent people condemn you and Hitler would have given you a kiss on the forehead...and then he would have employed you.
Let me guess, "kate"...You strongly identify with the ideals of the "tea" party...
Please enough drama. You have no valid point.
So let me get this straight; you are railing against what amounts to a negative generalization against Jews by posting a negative generalization against Muslims. LOL!
Oh...I see. Little "kate" is called out on her radical fascism and to her it's...let me get this right...."Drama"?
Thank you for proving that you are nothing more than a thoughtless minion. I would tell you to be ashamed of yourself but I'm sure you can not figure out how.
Actually, it makes me wonder if Hitler went after Muslims instead of Jews, it'd be a better world.
Yes, this is a HEINOUS remark!
@Swan37
Did you even read the article joker? It's about an anti semitic comment made by a Muslim! Deny it all you want, the evidence is overwhelming and it's no secret that hatred of Jews is rampant in many countries and its generated by Islamic ideology. There are also many Muslims who don't feel this way but this guy isn't one of them.
Did I hit a sore spot in my comment Shockedandstupid? Perhaps you're a little embarrassed by the truth.
And so you make an anti-muslim comment in return. Sounds like the same thing to me. See how you like this statement:
So according to you this is OK because I can later go back and say: Oh hay it's only some Jews.
to hung you up Marton Gyongyosi is necessary. Your are an abominable "animal" who knows only how to perpetuate hate!!! Imagine the happiness of the Arabs around the world!! We Jews continue to exist!!!!
As far as hate goes, Jews do a much better job of perpetuating it.
We Jews continue to exist!!!!
And we will, Zohar, for God will ensure it. How can Israel, a tiny sliver of land, thrive and overcome the Arab nations around it, the UN, and wicked world-opinion that lusts after the false, and does not have the sense to discern a lie? Is it because the US is a friend? Is it because of advanced technology? You would think that with all the oil wealth of Arab lands that they would have advanced technology as well, but Iran's Fahr-5 rockets have all the accuracy of throwing rocks with their eyes closed. God uses the US, England, Canada, and other reasonable nations to encourage and support Israel. But it has not always been so. Had God not fought for Israel in 1947 and 1948, even 1968 and 1973, the scene would be much different today.
There are modern day Haman's abounding in this world. This is no surprise. Did we think modern common sense and lessons learned from history would suddenly make us all nice to each other? So much for the age of technology making us better. We've only used our technological advances to, so far as wicked men are concerned, advance and spread over the world the same evil doctrines that fomented the atrocities of yesterday. And that is why, given half a chance, these evil doctrines will flourish.
Hey, Joe..you sound like a grade-A, anti-Semitic piece of sh*t.
Executed? No. Jailed for inciting violence? Hell yeah. And you can go there with him.
Surely this man had to know the impact such a statement would have.
Of course he did.
He said it to test the waters and see just how loud... or more to the point, how soft... the outcry would be.
Gyongyosi's mother's private parts are a national security risk.
Fact is, which of us had ever heard of him, or even passed one moment thinking about Hungarian political parties? I agree. I smell and agenda.
"Surely this man had to know the impact such a statement would have."
I don't know. Astuteness has never been a virtue of the far right.
Yeah, Tracey, it does seem to run in cultures.. right and left notwithstanding. I note the Arab penchant for grandiose speeches declaring what will happen, and yet routinely they fail to accomplish what their declarations have stated. Hatred of the other seems to run rampant in the Batlic and European cultures. I think of this guy actually was succesful in getting some naziesque lists being drawn up, there would be ramifications galore that would make them wish they had left well enough alone.
Tracy, he was testing the waters....you can bet on that.
Let us not forget that we had a man recently running for Vice President that was involved in legislation that redefines "legitimate rape".
The far right is resurfacing and people like arthur, latekate and joe are proof that we should not be too quick to tell the Hungarians what to do when we have yet to deal with the "tea" party.
He needs an accident.
And so do you.
Joe, this is the second one of your comments that are a violation of the Cod of Honor. I know. I got zinged for doing the same thing. How about joining the discussion and stop throwing stones?
Levi,
I usually find out what ticks people like Joe off the most and harp on it until they say something stupid enough to get kicked off of Newsvine.....doesn't always work but sometimes....otherwise ignoring them works too.
I"ve found myself sometimes backed into a corner, and what I should do is log off and go for a run, but I keep typing and responding and blah blah blah.
Actually he did have an accident.
He was born.
Joe is simply (very simply) the perfect example of the "tea" party and what they stand for.
Anti-semitism is alive and well in Europe. Hardly any Jews even live in Hungary, but they are still the ones blamed for the problems. Most Jews have had to leave Denmarck due to attacks on the Jewish community, and daily attacks on Jews and Jewish institutions are going on in France. In Germany, many Jews have been attacked as well! This hardly ever makes the news, despite the fact, that it is claimed, that the Jews control the media in America by anti-semites.
This is depressing. Six million people were murdered and we have not learned a damn thing from it.
He looks like Eric Cantor, coincidentally
Evidently, he has been smoking dope.
Actually, there should be a rule that guys like him are required to smoke at least 2 spliffs before opening their mouths!
after 2 the only thing he'd be opening his mouth for is a drink cause of the cottonmouth.
This is so wrong on every level. But I can't help but think of all the Americans that would probably approve of the same sort of list of Muslims in the USA.
Jews don't fly planes into buildings.
Most Muslims don't either.
lloyd, you don't punish an entire group for what a few of them do. otherwise all white people would be on a list for what mcveigh and kazynski did.
You don't have to punish them. You just don't let them into the country.
well joe, every race, religion or whatever has had people in it who committed horrible murders. who exactly do you let in? i've given you enough rope, let's see what happens.
agreed, HATR_HURTER. Christians launched crusades and killed hundreds of thousands, if not millions. Muslims have launched intifadas and holy wars. Jews sacked Jericho and killed every man woman and child. I'm sure if you name a religious or ethnic group you can find examples of some who have committed atrocities. That doesn't mean it's justified to summarily treat every member of the group as a criminal. It only works well when you're not the one on the receiving end of the persecution.
I always find it interesting that people who wring their hands and cry "Religion Religion" never mention the millions killed by Stalin, or Idi Amin, or even hitler. ( FYI, It wasn't a religion hitler went after, but a bloodline. That's why non-practicing Jews were also targeted, as well as Jews that had converted to Christianity.)
There are many evil deeds done by people of all walks of life. People who claim a religious code do not have the greatest accomplishment of killing people who disagree with them.
Fact is, you can focus on religion this and religion that, but where the truth lies is in relationship. Those who have relationship with God through faith in Jesus Christ can be identified by their works. Apple trees do not produce pine cones, and the works of a person reveals their character.
Or is there some other agenda by which you despise religion, to the dismissal of truth?
I have nothing against religion and am a practicing Christian. I do have a problem with people who discriminate against an entire group of others on the basis of any arbitrary trait, whether religion affiliation, ethnic background, socioeconomic status, or any other trait. Punish the criminals when a crime is committed, but don't punish their whole family as it were.
Well, Lloyd, Timothy McVeigh was clearly Irish-American, so should we throw all Irish-Americans out of the country since one of them blew up a federal building? That's about how intelligent your comment sounds.
Okay, TJW, let us know when you stop practicing and do it for real...JUST KIDDING!!! I couldn't resist. I would go so far as to say each person stands or falls on their own merit, although both Jesus and Paul the Apostle held racist sentiments. "NOT SO!" you may say? Remember when Jesus called the woman in Caperneum a "dog" by inference? "It's not lawful to take the children's food from the table and give it to the dogs". Incidentally, He explicitly went to that house, in that town, one time, healed that woman's daughter, left, and never went back.
So, if you are indeed a practicing Christian who does it for real, then let us be as familiar with the history of the irreligious as we are of the religious. All people groups commit atrocity at one time or another. This is part of what is meant by "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."
I have yet to hear of a single war or even a single person being killed in the name of atheism. Stalin,Amin and even Hitler may have been atheists but they killed for other reasons. Really tired of this back and forth about who - beleivers or non-beleivers - has killed the most. It misses the point.
Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot did what they did because of totalitarian societies that promised utopia and justified the means for the end. Religion or the lack of religion had nothing to do with it.
Standingwave...
Really? Amazing what you can find when you read history books.
Right, Reasons are not the point. The point is that they weren't Christians doing the killing. Get it? So when people denigrate Christians because of the Crusades, what they really should be saying isn't that Chritianity is bad, but that there are bad people everywhere. But then there really are people in the world who can't think that far ahead. Again. Amazing what you can find when you pick up a history book. Foxe's Book of Martyrs has a LOT of information on who did what to who. The Catholic church is featured in many pages, but the issue isn't what they did but who the did it to. Might surprise you that they routinely burned Protestant Christians at the stake, following torture to get them to recant.
Again, right. Me too. It's only brought up when people use the Crusades, and if they know that much, blame todays Christians for the sins of others. Not everyone who claims the name Christian is indeed Christian. Again, you don't get pine cones from apple trees. A Christian is know by the fruit of his life. Those who do systemic evil while claiming to be Christians are not Christians at all. And if someone points to them as an excuse to be an atheist or not go to church or hate people of faith, then it's a really lame and ignorant excuse, and they do not practice the truth.
When a minority in some country feels that their loyalty lies outside their home country, they may indeed be a security risk.
So, it should apply to all Muslems living in Europe.
And maybe to Muslims serving in the US military...
Why just a minority? The same logic should apply to christians in the US?
How about Catholics world wide? They support an organization that protects child rapers. Oh wait, that's anti-Catholic and you can't hold them up to the same standards as muslims.
Alverant,
I've never heard of a Catholic "honor" killing their own children.
No but they sat silent while priest pedophiles raped their children...50 years ago my mom warned my about being along with the 'father''...it was common knowledge then so those parents let their kids be harmed...
You seem to forget that America has a long history of viscous anti-Catholic sentiment. There's been as many Catholic presidents in our nation's history as black ones, despite Catholics being over 20% of the population compared to black Americans at 13%. JFK was unable to kiss the Pope's ring, as is customary, due to fear of Protestant backlash. Only one Catholic had the opportunity to sign the declaration of independence - a list of signatures dominated by hostile Freemasons.
The bias many have towards Hispanics, regardless of their legal status, carries the stink of anti-Catholicism due to the striking similarities with the anti-Italian and anti-Irish campaigns of the late 19th and early 20th centuries.
So Rick, your mom "warned" you about being alone with the "father?"
If she had suspicions that there was something not right, she should have ensured that you were not alone with the "father." If more people would have said something OUT LOUD 50 years ago, perhaps this problem could have been nipped in the bud.
Laura - I was married to a Catholic. You didn't talk badly about the church or you run the risk of becoming an outcast or, worse, being excommunicated. It was a *major* problem to them that I wasn't Catholic. It boiled down to a choice between Catholicism or us according to them and, well, if you're convinced you're going to burn eternally if your husband isn't Catholic... So is it any surprise that they worked around the clergy?
People dont even say anything today- as evidenced by the Penn State debacle. To expect someone to speak out 50 years ago is a pipe dream.
Right-wing extremists are the greatest threat to our national security here in the United States. When they lose an election they refuse to work with the group who wins and then threaten to secede when they don't get their way and when they win they implament policies that internationally make us even more hated than we already are and domestically destroy our economy and leave our infrastructure in ruins. If there was an "anti-christ" it would the the conservative movement and the right-wing extremist ideology, not a single person.
there you go. Liberals want their own "list" for the very same reasons. See, you're not as different from pol-pot or Marton Gyongyosi. Your bigotry painting all conservatives as "extremists" is no different. hate is hate and the rights fringe is far smaller than the fringe loonies, like you, on the left. Maybe you want internment camps deprogrammer? Remember as a lefty you're now the majority so beating up on us minorities is evil and you should resign. Or go make up another bigot speech.
Deprogrammer - How can you even compare right wingers in the US to a foreign anti-semitic government official? Of course, I am sure you would like the Republican party, and all of the third parties to just go away, so America can become a one-party government with no representation of what the people really want.
kj, you really have to ask? Right wingers in America are notorious for their prejudice and racism, and bigotry toward anybody who is different, or any views different from their own.
They are also known for:
1. Radical, extreme religious views. "Now in the name of logic, something religion has a big problem with" George Carlin
2. Sexual shame, repression, guilt, and the "sweep it under the rug" mindset in the 21st century. Hell, they're still trying to REWIND time back to when women had no rights!
3. Radical ideas, that they have actually tried to implement...like back in 06, when they wanted to screen teenagers during school for mental illness, then provide "enforced" treatment. You know, pills. And if parents didn't cooperate, they proposed taking the children away.
Republicans are the stubborn ones who hold the "one size fits all" mindset, and after awhile, it becomes near impossible to move beyond it.
Hmm...Last time I checked, "kal" and "kj", the primary goal of the evangelical right wing is to bring back their messiah and watch as all other humans that do not full-heartedly swear to their religion are wiped off of the face of the Earth.
Whether you like it or not, the entire premise of Revelations is based in genocide...and that is precisely why our fore fathers established the separation between church and state. God forbid had someone like Bachmann or Santorum won the Presidency. They make this Gyongyosi guy look like flower child.
Kal and kj, your posts are yet more proof that the American right invents it's own facts and reality. Neither of the posts you two responded to said anything about lists or getting rid of parties yet you both, and I'll assume you don't know each other, put words in those commentors mouths then attacked them for things they didn't say. If this were a debate you both would have lost. Big time. Btw, when was the last time someone conducted a poll to see how many "loonies" reside on each extreme of the political spectrum?
I don't represent right-wingers. I am a libertarian. So there you go - making your own assumptions.
BTW - I've won almost every debate I've been in.
about. damn. time.
it takes a real man to be an *** anonymously. you must be real proud.
Bunch of sick MF's still running around this globe...
call up israel, have this guy "removed from office" the same way they did the iranian scientists.
Because being a scientist in Iran, or espousing unpopular views means you should be put to death.
the US needs to speak out on this loudly. What is Hungary doing to sanction this monster?
what do we do to sanction our own big mouthed politicians? Remember Jow Wilson calling our president a liar?
President=politician=liar, nothing new. Get over it.
What is the United States doing to sanction Michelle Bachmann?
I agree this man is a beast, but we also have our own to deal with...and, after the lessons of 2010 and the crazy freak show that was the Republican Primaries, we should be very aware that they are more organized in the United States than they are in Hungary.
If the US government is giving any financial aid to Hungary, now is the time to stop it! Our government cannot stand for this type of racism and the U.N. should take note of what is going on in this country.
punish the entire country for what a minority of them think. that line of thinking is hand in hand with the type of thinking this article is about.
We give money to everyone. then we print more.
Why punish a whole country for one politician shooting his mouth off? Maybe the world should stop helping us because of Rick Sanitorium too.
Get out of your trailer, go to the local library, and learn the definition and the meaning of the word racism.
Well, this administration is continuing to support Egypt & now the Muslim brotherhood who preaches the down fall of the west & has the US on the top list. People are speaking against Hungry because of the words & belief of one person, one party. Guess Hungry doesn't have nukes, weapons of mass destruction or biological weapons therefore probably doesn't qualify for US aid.
Heil Gyongyosi......
anyone got a spare drone?
So.... have we finally reached a point where comparing the far right to Nazis isn't dismissed as "rude"?
Well, at least on NBC, but what would you expect. After all, he does technically fit the true definition of far-right, It's just that definitions of left and right have been twisted and altered in the US, so they mean something completely different to us from their original meaning.
Wow... this comment board looks like the world convention of trailer trash today!
clearly they let you out
Joe-1059546, you're suspended for a week for violating #1 - and #5 of the Code of Honor.
liberallosers banned, flameout - hard to find a comment in their history that wasn't a #1 violation.
JDL needs to get involved and fast. This fascist nonsense has to be cut down with extreme prejudice.
I've managed to obtain a copy of the list. It's quite short:
All
of
Them
I am a left leaning liberal, actually prefer progressive. Nevertheless, I am offended when racist iconoclasts are labeled "far-right". I have too many friends and acquaintances who are right of me and a few I might call far-right, but who are as offended by such drivel as I am. Fascism is not any part of right leaning politics, no more than the separatist Aryan Nation movement was in America.
Blair in your case you've earned the title of "Progressive" where others self apply it to feel superior then spout the same bigotry and hatred that they claim to fight against. Same hate and bigotry just a different cast of jokers. Diversity includes diversity of thought but far too many liberals don't like anyone who wanders off the plantation and they savage them. How inclusive, how loving, how righteous indeed!
blair paul- the problem is, fascism IS a far right ideology. just like socialism is a far left ideology. while those in american politics like to throw those terms around as insults, the truth is, the farther you get from the center of the political spectrum, the more scary the ideologies get. and the truth is, whether you like it or not, that the aryan nation IS a far-right organization. they have taken the philosophy of the right and amplified it, often beyond comprehension, but it still begins as a conservative ideology. while some political scholars have tried to paint fascism as left-leaning, the only practical example of a fascist government, Italy in the 40's, was without question conservative.
does that make uncle joe who voted for ron paul a fascist? no more than it makes aunt dorothy who voted for obama a socialist. of course, cousin jimmy who voted for romney is still a dolt.... sorry, couldn't resist... ;-)
the generally accepted ideology line goes something like this:
socialist...communist....liberal....democrat.....centrist....republican.....conservative...liberterian....fascist
is this some absolute? of course not. and groups have often blurred the lines by calling themselves something they are not... national socialists were actually fascist. there are socialist groups called social republicans.
the real problem is that many of these terms are not well understood, and have been used as insults and accusations. american republicans throw around the term socialist so much, attributing it to the american democratic party, that they lose sight of exactly how big the chasm is between socialism and democratic ideals. and the inverse is often true.
it is rather disconcerting though, that the central ideal of communism (which we have no good examples of, since there has never been a communist nation...just a bunch of leftist dictatorships calling themselves communist) is an almost non-existent central government. the ideal of libertarians, on the other hand, is....the exact same thing.
The reason I don't like many progressives is because they feel superior to everyone else, and take every opportunity to discredit everyone else's views. So, it is good to see a progressive like you, Blair, who can actually get along with the other side. You are better than many of our current politicians, on both sides.
kj- but clearly it would take less than one full minute, on this webpage, to prove to you that BOTH sides of the spectrum do EXACTLY the same thing. so by attaching this UNIVERSAL trait to only one side, aren't you doing EXACTLY what you are praising him for not doing?
I'm not discrediting the views of progressives, nor am I claiming superiority over them. I simply stated why I don't get along with many of them.
If my government or a major political party demands the list of all American Jews for 'natural security' expect me to fight. I never forget the Holocaust and I will fight against it vocally and with arms if I have to in the end, I will fight and most Jews will do. We're no longer called 'sheeps' because of our docile nature in the past, if anyone threatens us or our right of humanity then we'll fight to the death for that.
I'm not talking out of my rear too, vast majority of people here are very supportive of the Jewish people here in Western Pennsylvania. The main question is, if the U.S. government or a large party demanded the same, what would you do? Would you stand aside and let it happened much like in WWII or will you join some us to fight against it vocally or if it comes down with arms?
It's a big deal as there's 5-6 million Jewish Americans, not counting those who doesn't know or don't practices just shy of outnumbering Israel in terms of Jewish population.
This will drive the teabirthers nuts. They've been trying to redefine fascism and and Nazis as "far left" since Obama beat McCain.
Sorry, you can't rewrite history to make it fit your "conservative" dogma. Fascism is totalitarianism from the RIGHT.
The Nazi war machine was built entirely by "private enterprise" including the maker of those fine German sedan/status symbols that they love to drive.....using slave labor of course (the best kind of labor because it's free).