Not a smart move on Israel's part at all. They may as well be throwing gasoline onto an already burning fire! This move by Netanyahu is just going to probably get a lot more innocent people killed on both sides. Stupid actually!

The US shouldn't be ripping on anyone. How about we take care of our own business and leave the others to take care of theirs?

What the US should do is let Iran build their nukes and then sit back and watch them and Israel annihilate each other.

How about we stop the $ billions of aid we send Israel. Then we could save hundreds of billions of dollars, as then we wouldn't have the whole middle east mad at the US for supporting Israel. We wouldn't have had Afghanistan, or the Iraq war. All because we support Israel. So as soon as they put thier hand back in thier pocket instead of our, then we won't have any say..........

Not only are the action unfair to the Palestinians, but also the Israeli people. This makes it appear that the Israeli government wants to deny the Palestinians statehood, just so they can expand Israel's borders whenever they want. And then that leaves the door open for dangerous extremists to gain power, because they promise to give the Palestinians a voice that is being denied by the international community.

The Israeli people deserve to live their lives without fear of attacks from the extremists, and the Palestinians deserve the same property rights as any other nation. It seems to me that giving the Palestinians statehood and defined borders would solve both problems.

Breeze,

We should also cut funding to the Muslim countries as well then, no?

Funny how when it comes to Israel so many who claim international law needs to be followed suddenly forget what those laws are.

Taking land in war doesn't make it your land. You are, as in the case of Israel, supposed to allow the civil authority to exist, and to not incorporate that land into your own. But this all presumes that the vanquished sues for peace and concludes hostilities with you. It also presumes there is a nation-state to work with. The problem with the West Bank and Gaza, unlike the Golan Heights, is that those presumptions fail.

Jordan had been responsible for the West Bank, Egypt for Gaza, and both lost those lands in the Six Day War. Neither wanted or wants them back. In a way the loss helped each country eliminate the largest internal problem both faced--What to do with the crappy Palestinians residing there? These hapless people became the problem, more or less, of Israel.

So, without a nation state willing to make peace and recover their lost protectorates, and within those lands a hostile population being used as pawns by the surrounding nations, each of which had and would continue in varying degrees to remain an enemy of Israel, then Israel did what international law allows. Jordan doesn't want the West Bank returned (it wasn't really Jordan's anyhow) since with it would come the Palestinians and their myriad troubles. Not the least of which was having tried to assassinate the King of Jordan. Same, in a sense, with Egypt and Gaza.

Because the west, including the USA, has done all it can to keep a lid on this pot so that it won't boil over, a solution has never been possible. Ultimately, if the Palestinians refuse to reject their desire to kill every Jew and destroy Israel, then the only solution will be a violent one. Negotiating with a people who want you dead works how? This compromise would look like what? Kill half our number? Only fire rockets into our land half the days of a week?

We can continue to play games with this issue, and we will since we want to continue to delude ourselves into thinking a way exists to find peace without first having to finish the war, but all we are doing is delaying the inevitable. Israel, absent some major demographic alteration, will be overwhelmed by Arab muslims in just a few decades. Either Jews need to have lots more babies, muslims need to have far fewer babies, or many muslims will need to be killed. One exception: Muslims in the region, Palestinians included, could give up their desire to wipe out all jews along with their state of Israel. My bet is that the first two and the last one will never happen.

All, then, that is left is that Israel, in order to survive over the long term, will have to kill a great many muslims in the region. I hope I'm wrong.

Irish 21, you are absolutely correct!

Killian: Who in their right mind would lend money to a drunken sailor?

Hi Breeze,

I think you give far too much credit to the wrong people. Islamists oppose anyone who opposes their wish for a Caliphate. Certainly Israel doesn't want the caliphate to evolve. But neither do we. Mr. Obama might be okay with the caliphate but it's hard to tell. It is our presence in the region, directly or not, which offends Islamists. Our support of Israel is of no consequence over whether we are to be opposed or not, but it does make recruiting Islamist jihadists easier. OBL was allowed into Afghanistan by the Taliban for a simple reason: Both hated the USA because we obstruct their ability to create the caliphate they desperately desire. Israel had little to do with it.

"What the US should do is let Iran build their nukes and then sit back and watch them and Israel annihilate each other."

Effective, but a little messy. We could also take back the land that the U.N. granted to a certain group and force everyone to move from that certain piece of land, and then nuke it or make it uninhabitable. That would fix the problem and we would not have to kill anyone. Many Israelis have duel citizenship with the U.S. already, there are already 6 million Jews in this country already, and we still have lots of houses for sale :P.

We can also fix the over population problem by simply not breeding so damn much. If every two people only have one child in their lifetime on average then we would not have to kill anyone. Yes women will suffer anytime restrictions are placed on conception, but who's body is it again? Rape accounts for some, but the vast majority of pregnancies are by two consenting partners and only the "smart" ones know how to use some form of birth control. Therefore, war will more then likely be the answer.

KILLIAN JONES...I'll ingore your silly screed against those hidden Jewish bankers.......and give it to you in one word.

Oil....and not too many Jewish people running that industry.

So, perhaps, things are actually more complicated than simply scapegoating a whole religion; some of whom studied and worked hard, and did very well for themselves against all odds.

Think.

It is hypocritical that Israel is indignant over any country or person who rejects the idea of Israel's right to exist, but then they believe they are justified in rejecting the UN move to recognize Palestine as a legitimate nation. The borders for BOTH nations were drawn up in the Post WWII creation of the Nation of Israel. The world recognizes and accepts the legitimacy of Israel, so why should Palestine be any different? Concerning the 1967 war, there is some speculation that the Palestinian aggression was provoked and manipulated by Israeli leaders with the underlying purpose of seizing Palestinian land that these Israeli leaders wanted. Regardless, the U.S. did not seize Japan and other European lands after winning WWII. The people of those nations were also victims of the tyrant aggressors who brought about the war, and thus we helped them back to independence. Israel could take example and do the same. They keep provoking the Palestinians with the never ending encroachment of new Israeli settlements on the Palestinian land, and then blame them for reacting and lack of a peaceful agreement. Israel needs to recognize Palestine as a nation with a right to exist (as was agreed upon at the creation of the nation of Israel), just as they also expect and deserve to be recognized as a sovereign nation with the right to exist. Yes they have the right to defend themselves against aggressors, but the Palestinian people as a whole are not their enemy, and they do not have the right to continually break international law in seizing these people's land.

Rich, according to your view, maybe it would have been better if the European Jews had annihilated all the Palestinians (Muslims, Christians, and Jews) before the UN declared the new Jewish state of Israel. If they had done that when they first began taking the homes and farms of the people whose families had been there for centuries, if not millennia, then, just like the European immigrants did to the American Indians, the remnants of the Palestinians would be safely put away on reservations.

I believe you are wrong. Why do you expect the Palestinians to go peacefully away and allow the Israeli government to continue building settlements on Palestinian land? Wouldn't you fight for your home?

I heard Bebe say that the settlements will be turned over to the Palestinians after the two states had been ratified. Oh sure! Yeah, right!

The Israeli government must be made to STOP BUILDING ON PALESTINIAN LANDS NOW! That is the only protection the Israeli people need, and is it the only protection possible.

I am amazed that the Israeli Jews treat the natives of that land the same way the Europeans treated the Jews for a millenium. Instead of "due unto others as you want them to do unto you," it is "due onto others before they do it to you". The latter only perpetuates more of the same. Forever and ever.

The pale's HAD a "birth certificate" in the '40s. They rejected it, picked war and have been getting crushed ever since.

If there is peace, Israel would no longer get billions in aid. Think about it.

While I support Israel's actions in Gaza, because they were being fired on by the rockets from Gaza, this shows very clearly that Israel is not interested in peace. They will just continue this until they have taken all of the occupied territory.

Wow, it feels good to see how a breeze of Reason & Sanity can cause less and less individuals to not sit and allow for others to trample on those who cannot fend for themselves.

It not only takes bravery to fight for the what is right but, it takes a great deal of wit to stand up to powers that are larger than us.

BRAVO, I cheer all of you on in the hopes that you will continue to fight for what is right even if the fight is not your own.

I always mention to those around me that....

"I will do all that I can in this life to fight for what is right or the injustices caused to others as well as myself. Because, if there is such a thing as reincarnation, I don't want to come back to a world that is filled with even more evil than what was here when I lived my previous life."

PEEL-LAYER.....

This action should prove to the world that Israel's leaders have ZERO intention of a true peace with Palestinians. This action is equivalent of a mad child taking his toys home because the game is not going his way.

I've lost a lot of respect for Netanyahu, this latest move has caused me to see him in his true skin. Maybe we should threaten Israel with a drop of aid?

The White House and the State Department said on Friday a new Israeli settlement expansion plan was "counterproductive" and could make it harder to bring Israel and the Palestinians back to the negotiating table.

So was putting Morsi in charge of negotiations! The next day, he proclaims himself supreme ruler? Where is their “outrage” over this? Or this?

Christians, liberals left out as Islamists back Egypt's draft constitution

Give me a break Barry!!

Dividing the Land is part of amazing Prophecy...I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.

Joel 3:2

Hi Chad,

Aid, in fact, was increased after the Camp David Accords during the Carter presidency because of the "peace" that would ensure. Bad analysis. The USA, right or not, gives billions in aid and has for decades to help keep peace.

Hi Jaden,

When the UN declared a two state solution in 1947 and then partitioned the land, one of the states was to be for the arabs. The deal with both states was that to be recognized each would have to accept the right of the other to exist in peace. Regardless of what you or I think, Israel did accept those terms. The arabs did not.

Prior to this the Zionist movement had become well established in the Palestine Mandate. Jews had been buying at premium prices the lands arabs were willing to sell. In any case, it wasn't a requirement that non-jews leave Israel, but because all muslim/arab states surrounding the new nation refused to accept its existence and promised war, a diaspora resulted. This wasn't the fault of jews in Israel, the blame lies with arabs and muslims in what would become Israel and in all the surrounding nations.

So there was no need, and had been no desire, for European jews to kill the inhabitants of the Palestinian Mandate in the hope that a Jewish state would one day result. One only has to answer a simple question to see which "state" is best to live in: Would you prefer to be a jew living in any of the arab/muslim states, or an arab/muslim living in the only Jewish state? I think a fair read is that Israel, under Jewish control, is a far freer and more tolerant and welcoming state than any arab/muslim state one can imagine.

It is what happened after the partition and Israel was born which I wrote about above. On the day it became a state five arab nations surrounding it attacked with the goal of destroying it. Israel won. These wars continued, and in 1967 Israel seized some of the land that had previously been controlled by its enemies. That land, had those enemies sued for peace like Germany and Japan had done with the USA and our allies in WW2, could have been returned to Jordan and/or Egypt. But peace wasn't sought by those who lost. Instead they again promised to eradicate Israel.

So what should Israel do? I say they should continue to follow international law despite being in this legal twighlight zone. Unless and until Palestinians pledge to allow Israel to exist in peace, and act accordingly, then Israel has no legal duty to support a Palestinian state. We, meaning the USA, could do a lot towards making this possible by working to put the territories onto a clear legal footing rather than this piecemeal evolution that has taken place for 45 years. But that would take leadership, and it would also force all involved--Israel, the USA, the west generally, and every arab/muslim state in the region--to confront some difficult truths. Like "right of return" will never occur.

How much more is this going to cost the US taxpayers?

Let's be honest...many of the comments against Israel are actually comments against Jews. There wasn't this much whining when Russia invaded the Democratic country of Georgia, or any of the other atrocities committed by other countries.

I'll be sure to get a yellow armband with a Star of David on it so you can insult me directly, instead of anonymously on the internet.

Arrogance, self=righteousness and the feeling of superiority does not fit in with any teachings of Christ's, who is the New Covenant of God, where all are equal, welcome and all are to love their neighbors. You, wburnes, are the Christian/Jewish equivalent of a Muslim extremist. You obviously do not understand that all are equal in the eyes of the Lord. For shame.

Hey Jim in Auburn,

Do you think that if Israel withdraws from Gaza and the West Bank entirely, meaning no settlements, no blockades of military materiel, that the Palestinians will openly promise to accept Israel's right to exist and to then act in that way? My bet is that regardless of what Israel does that the Palestinians will continue to be pawns in a much larger regional conflict and that if they withdraw all they would accomplish would be to decrease their defensible space and guarantee that more weapons will enter Gaza and the WB to be used to kill Israelis.

jw101
Let's be honest...many of the comments against Israel are actually comments against Jews. There wasn't this much whining when Russia invaded the Democratic country of Georgia, or any of the other atrocities committed by other countries.

Give me a f*cking break. People aren't pissed because they hate Jews. They're pissed because we base our entire foreign policy on the protection and support of some tiny little country on the other side of the world that we owe absolutely NOTHING to.

People who have no idea how deep this conflict runs just spout off their opinions based on one article headline.

Put foreign aid in context. $3B per year to Israel, for defense. Over the past 20 years we've given them about the same as we gave GM in one lump sum to keep building gas guzzlers.

Put the UN vote in context. You cannot legislate or mandate peace just because some group of foreign officials wants it to be so. This is a religious ideology conflict thousands of years in the making. More recently, this is a conflict over lands won in a war over four decades ago. One UN vote doesn't change any of that, and in fact, derails any progress that has been made so far.

They don't want peace, these people are arrogant, I use to think it was the Palestinians now I understand why they fire Rockets at the Jews.

Y'know, the more I see of this situation, the more convinced I am that the U.S. should leave it up to the world community. As long as we insist that peace negotiations be fed through us, the Israeli government can manipulate politics to keep our policy lined up with theirs. This lets Israel do whatever it pleases with regard to the Palestinians. If we turn the whole hot mess over to the U.N., well, look at the vote, folks. And one thing I've noticed, Israel backs off when the world frowns over its aggressions. There is no credence anymore to the line that Israel can't get a fair shake from world opinion, that too many are anti-semitic. It just doesn't play anymore. Give it to the U.N. and it'll be decided in five years or less.

I want to remind you that, seven years ago, Israel withdrew from every square inch of Gaza. Now, Hamas took over the areas we vacated. What did it do? Rather than build a better future for the residents of Gaza, the Hamas leadership, backed by Iran, turned Gaza into a terrorist stronghold. They fired thousand of rockets at our cities, at our towns, at our civilians, at our children. They’ve smuggled thousands of rockets and missiles into Gaza, and they deliberately place these rockets and missiles in civilian areas: in homes, in schools, near hospitals. This year alone, they fired over one thousand rockets and missiles at Israel, including close to 200 rockets in the last 24 hours....

I’m stressing this because it’s important to understand one simple point. There is no moral symmetry; there is no moral equivalence, between Israel and the terrorist organizations in Gaza. The terrorists are committing a double war crime. They fire at Israeli civilians, and they hide behind Palestinian civilians. And, by contrast, Israel takes every measure to avoid civilian casualties. I saw today a picture of a bleeding Israeli baby. This picture says it all: Hamas deliberately targets our children, and they deliberately place their rockets next to their children. Despite this reality – and it’s a very difficult reality – Israel will continue to do everything in its power to avoid civilian casualties....."

http://flashtrafficblog.wordpress.com/2012/11/16/netanyahu-tells-foreign-press-there-is-no-moral-symmetry-the-terrorists-are-committing-a-double-war-crime/

Fed

Your argument would be much stronger if more than 90% of the casualties were not Palestinians.

Building housing on the West Bank is extremely provocative...please don't ask us to believe the Israelis are just innocent victims in this conflict.

This is to Killian Jones! You're post makes about as much sense as a Bag of Rocks used for frosting on a Birthday Cake!

Sit back and watch them both nuke each other! Yeah right and watch the whole middle east go KAAAAAAAABOOOOOM!If the middle east goes KAAAAAABOOOOM,guess who gets drag into the INSANITY?

EVERYBODY! I do not condone Israel expanding any settlements at this time! It's to Dam Tense.I agree these idiots from the other side have been firing rockets,at them and it's WRONG,however to inflame it even more by expanding ANYTHING,IS EVEN MORE WRONG.

YOU ARE EXACERBATING THIS SITUATION RIGHT NOW! WAIT!

If It was just the Palestinian people they were dealing with it would be easy, BOTH people want peace However the religious crazes can't live without war. Now you people want to throw Israel under the bus and side with the very people that hate us as much as they hate Israel ? Remember our friends that came in the space ship and wanted to take us to their planet? That book they gave us was a cook book. How to cook humans!! "It's a cook book" Ok only a few of you will know what I am referencing. Anyway I won't throw in with Muslim terrorist.

Hi pragmatist,

You fall into the relativistic trap by thinking that if there are X casualties on one side there must be X casualties on the other side. The USA was absolutely correct in waging war on Japan and Germany, and we killed far more--a geometric order more--of them than of Americans that died. Did that fact make the USA immoral? Not a chance. Killing more of your enemy than your enemy kills of you is a Machiavellian reality we would do well to re-read.

Yes, building housing on the West Bank is very provocative, but that is far less inciting or provocative than having, as the Palestinians do, a perpetual goal of killing every Jew in Israel and eradicating Israel from the earth. Put that, if you can, on your moral relativism scale and see which prevents peace more.

Rich

My opinion is that both sides in this conflict are responsible for the failure to obtain peace. And both sides perennially claim to be the victim.

Frankly, I expect more out of the Israelis. They have the money, the military, and a powerful ally (us) to do what they want...and apparently they want more settlements and continued control over the water supply from the West Bank.

Pragmatist:

Israel wants protection. Protection form HAMAS who is on their doorstep.

Israel gave 99 per cent of the Gaza Strip back to the Palestinians, and that is still not good enough.

Look at the War they started by sending Missiles/Rockets into major Cities, Tel Aviv, and Jerusalem.

"The Only One Looking Out for You is You", as the saying goes.

Partition was the LEAST favoured option for the Palestinian Mandate back in 1947 and we can see why. The real solution is a single secular state. This, of course, would be unacceptable to the extremists, but would ensure peace. So, get rid of the extremists on BOTH sides and keep them in Gitmo while the details of a secular state with citizenship for all is hammered out.

If you remember partition was the LEAST favoured option when the British were getting out of India, and again it is easy to see why. We end up with a failed state - Pakistan - which also has nukes.

Hi pragmatist,

Of course both sides are responsible for failing to achieve peace. And so do both sides claim to be victims of the other. But this doesn't meant that both sides are equally responsible or equally victimized. It's too easy, not to mention wrong, to shrug it all off and simply say both are equally at fault. Israel is not pure, but if I have to make a choice about which is more wrong, which has less legitimacy, and so on, the conclusion isn't even a close call. The Palestinians must, if there is ever a hope for peace without many more deaths first, jettison their stated claim to want Israel eradicated and all the jews dispatched.

There is no way to compromise with such people. How many jews would you surrender to them? How much of your nation would you allow them to destroy? So Israel can't force the hand of the Palestinians and can only respond to their actions. It makes perfect logical sense. It is the counter claim, that Israel should become less defensible, that Israel must appease an intractable enemy, that Israel should not follow international law so that the Palestinians can have their way, which makes absolutely no logical sense at all. A basic law of economics is if you want more of something reward it, and if you want less punish it.

But put this into an even clearer context. Imagine that Mexicans were streaming across our border, not to work but to kill. Would you give them the southern border states if that was their price for peace, and do you think if you did they would give you the peace you want? It strains credulity to imagine such an outcome is possible. The flaw here is that the WB and Gaza are not analogous to our southern states. Those two areas were lost in war waged by Israel's enemies against it, and no demand to return them has been made. Why? Because they are filled with Palestinians, and neither Jordan or Egypt wants several million Palestinians in their country, or even under the control of their country.

While I don't necessarily think it is the best move, exactly what did people THINK was going to happen?

So, the Palestinians want to be recognized as a state. Without a peace treaty. Okay, so that accomplishes two things: 1) no peace with Israel, and 2) an excuse for Israel to now attack and invade a hostile state.

If Israel could strategically accomplish it while holding off all its potential enemies at its borders, I wouldn't be surprised if they invade, and kick every palestinian out of their sacred territory. Good job, Palestinians. High time you gave Israel the excuse they need to solve the problem all by themselves.

Rich

I appreciate your thoughtful and civilized comments. Thank-you.

I don't happen to agree that the Palestinians are the most to blame. You argue that their unmitigated hate for the Israelis/Israel is more provocative and dangerous than the actions of the Israelis and therefore, they are more responsible for the failure of peace-making. Whatever the "reasons" behind this hatred, it's real and not likely to go away as long as Israel continues to occupy the West Bank, control the water supply, and build more settlements. In fact, it may never go totally away as some people love to hate "others." So if you're right and the hatred is to blame, then there will never be peace.

Once again, let's admit that Israel holds all the cards here...they are more powerful by far and as such could make things happen...like creating two states unilaterally (and fairly!) if they so wished. Then your basic law of reward/punish would be more legitimate, palatable, and perhaps more effective.

I don't think the current administration in Israel has any intention of commiting to a peace treaty. I think saying they are wanting it to be a condition of a Palestinian state is a stalling tactic as they know full well that they will never sign one. The UN will have to step in because there are those in Israel that will never allow a Palestinian state if it's up to them. And those who say that the UN doesn't have the authority are in essence saying that the State of Israel isn't legitimate as it was itself formed by UN madate.

What the Israeli's are doing is awesome and should be commended!

@Pragmatist:

Gaza 2012:Proportionality and Collective Punishment

Eli E. Hertz | November 19, 2012

It would be a denial of reality to assume that only a small group of terrorists could be involved in the thousands of documented acts of terror in the past 10 years by Palestinian Arabs. In the seven years since Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005, Hamas has launched thousands of rockets directly at civilian populations in Israel. It would be reckless to assume that these acts of terror are isolated, undertaken independently, without the direct involvement of the Palestinian populace and the leadership they opt to elect.

Israel often is portrayed in the media, by Western leaders, human rights activists and the many different organs of the United Nations as inflicting disproportionate and collective punishment on many Palestinians for the deeds of a few terrorists.

Ironically, the prohibition of imposing "collective penalties [punishment] ... intimidation and terrorism" that Article 33 of the Fourth Geneva Convention [1] talks about, should be applied in this case to the millions of innocent men, women, and children of Israel that are collectively being punished day-in and day-out by Arab terrorists for "offenses" they never "personally committed." As to the "terrorism" Article 33 speaks about; it is the Israelis that fight to prevent Palestinian terrorism, and not the other way around.

Interestingly, the British in 1929 thought that collective punishment was a perfectly legitimate measure when inhabitants of Arab villages attacked the Jews. This collective punishment was not merely a single necessary step, but actually an existing ordinance of the British Mandate supported by the League of Nations, in dealing with Arab terrorism:

„Collective Punishments. The Collective Punishments Ordinances were applied to the [Arab] towns and villages whose inhabitants were guilty of participation in the concerted attacks on Jews at Hebron, Safad, Motza, Artuf, Beer-Tuvia, and heavy fines were inflicted." [2]

Throughout history, Jews were law-abiding, peaceful people defending themselves against Arab aggression. In a 1946 Report, the Anglo-American Committee described its observation regarding Jews living in the land of Palestine:

"The Jew had to train himself for self-defence, and to accustom himself to the life of a pioneer in an armed stockade. Throughout the Arab rising, the Jews in the National Home, despite every provocation, obeyed the orders of their leaders and exercised a remarkable self-discipline. They shot, but only in self-defence; they rarely took reprisals on the Arab." [3]

Israel's reaction to Arab aggression is nothing more than a measured, fair response designed "to effectively terminate the attack [s]" by a conglomerate of Palestinian Arab terrorists, supported by Iran, Syria, and Hezbollah, in order to prevent its recurrence. [4]

Palestinian Arabs, by their first use of armed force against Israeli civilians and non-combatant Jews in contravention of the United Nations Charter, constituted prima facie [Latin: on its face] evidence of an act of aggression - aggression being defined by international law as "the most serious and dangerous form of illegal use of force." [5]

Therefore, the rule of proportionality in this case of continuous aggression needs to be met by Israeli acts that will induce the aggressors to comply with its international obligations. Israel countermeasures need not be the exact equivalent of the breaching act. [6] Judge Schwebel, the former president of the International Court of Justice is quoted saying:

"In the case of action taken for the specific purpose of halting and repelling an armed attack, this does not mean that the action should be more or less commensurate with the attack." [7]

The perception among Palestinians that politically motivated violence is legitimate and effective is nothing new. From a broader perspective, if the Palestinians are rewarded with political gains following their acts of aggression, it can be expected that other radical groups will also make use of their tactics. Israel will no longer be the main target.

To read this article online, please Click Here.

[1] See: http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/c525816bde96b7fd41256739003e636a/72728b6de56c7a68c12563cd0051bc40?OpenDocument

[2] From the report by His Majesty‚s Government in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to the Council of the League of Nations on the Administration of Palestine and Transjordan for the year 1929.

[3] Report of the Anglo-American Committee of Enquiry regarding the problem of European Jewry and Palestine. Lausanne, 20^th April, 1946.

[4] See Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policy; 3/22/2002; Beard, Jack M.

[5] See UN GA Resolution 3314.

[6] United States Department of State, Draft Articles on State Responsibility, Comments of the Government of the United States of America, March 1, 2001. See: http://www.state.gov/documents/organization

[7] Ibid

How about we stop the $ billions of aid we send Israel.

Well said. As for the other person's idea of cutting off the muslim nations as well, I'm all for that. Let 'em all do it for themselves.

Hey pragmatist,

You're welcome, and the thanks go both ways. I didn't exactly say that Palestinian desires to eradicate Israel is more dangerous, just that it is more provocative. There has, I do not deny this at all, been a shift from nation-state aggression against Israel, as in 1948, 1956, 1967, and 1973, but it has been replaced by a proxy war by those nations using the Palestinians as their weapon. It began this way, and has remained this way, since the Palestinians first came on to the scene in the 1960s.

Prior to that time it was a straight up "war" between Israel and her arab/muslim neighbors. But those neighbors didn't want the Palestinians in their own countries either, particularly Jordan, Egypt, and Tunisia. Everywhere they went the Palestinians caused trouble, and I think that each of Jordan and Egypt were more than happy to give up control over those lands (they had control because arabs in 1947/48 rejected partition) since it got the Palestinians out of their own countries, proper.

So the Palestinians, who never had a claim to those lands for their own state, were more or less shuffled off to them. And all the other arab/muslim states could foment violence against Israel, using the Palestinians to do the dirty work. It was similar in some ways to our Cold War with the USSR. We seldom fought one another directly, using proxies instead against one another. Anyhow, because of their privation and radicalization the Palestinians made the perfect puppet. Even Abbas is unable, as moderate as he appears to be relative to others, to convince Palestinians to accept Israel. We can't fix this. Maybe over many generations it will die out, but I doubt it. Muslims are still deeply committed to righting perceived wrongs from nearly a thousand years ago.

So I just see no way out. Demographically Israel will fail in a number of decades, but they are smart enough to read a chart of birth rates. The Palestinians refuse to give up their hate. Israel has no one to negotiate a return of those lands to unless the Palestinians accept Israel and agree it has a lawful right to exist. So why not build more settlements so that over time Palestinians will either be displaced entirely or at least a larger land area will be created so as to buffer the original Israeli borders from future attack?

Here is the nut of the solution, imo. It isn't Israel's to solve. If the Palestinians could agree that Israel has a legitimate right to exist then Israel would no longer have any moral claim to want more land (which presently doesn't actually belong, legally, to the Palestinians) whether to displace their enemy or to create a buffer. Neither would any longer be true. And so the only reason to continue to settle would evaporate. Trouble is the Palestinians have never been, and I think will never be, able to mouth those words and then act similarly. Short of this why should Israel give to an enemy sworn to destroy it the very short term goal that enemy has?

These Palestinians have been living on Israeli lands for 5000 years. The Jews came back and bought as much of their land back as they could in 1948 and then went to war to take back the rest in 1967. It doesn't matter if those Palestinians lived there for thousands of years, there are several fairy books that prove those lands belong to Israel!!!!!!!!!! Kick them off of those lands those people lived on for thousands of years - the fairy books say they belong to Israel. Send those Palestinian children out to live in the deserts and eat dust. Let's send Israel our tax money so they can continue to do what they have been doing for the past 40 years. The media will clean it all up spic and span like and Israel will come out smelling like roses. Who cares anyhow, they're just a bunch of Muslim terrorists, right?!

So, Tyler? Yon goi'n to get political on us, like your boss?

Besides, didn't the Fairy Lord in the Holy Fairy Books order the Israelis to euthanize everyone living in that area 8000 years ago? I'm sure they still have permission from the Fairy Lord to kill anyone living on those lands so they can take them back over even though they lost control of them for thousands of years.

Little Benny Ya Who is gonna be on his own.

pragmatist-3346386

Fed

Your argument would be much stronger if more than 90% of the casualties were not Palestinians.

Building housing on the West Bank is extremely provocative...please don't ask us to believe the Israelis are just innocent victims in this conflict.

So you blame the Jews because they know how to defend themselves? Don’t pick a fight with someone you can’t beat! Let me guess…you only fight girls? Tough man you are!

Lets see you put up with rockets launched on you and your family for years and NOT retaliate! Enough is enough! I feel bad for innocent Palestinians caught in the middle of HAMAS terrorism…but then, perhaps they should get rid of HAMAS and learn to live in peace!

OOOOOO. the "US" is against something?

Thanks to our present administration, no one gives a hoot anymore.

@FedupwithFed - So what you are saying if some people took your lands away from you, cut off your water and food supplies, forced you and your children to go hungry and live without electricity and tried to take more and more of your land away, you would not fight back? Yes, the Jews know how to defend themselves with US tax dollars, US weapons systems and US nuclear weapons and US support. Whenever the Palestinians talk peace, Israel moves in to build settlements on their land. What we are seeing are a people who are still fighting a war that began 40 years ago when Israel decided to take over more territories because the Torah says they belong to them. It didn't matter that people had been living on those lands for thousands of years, Israelis wanted them back for themselves and they were willing to kill everyone on them to take them back. Our media, because we supported Israel for so long has cleaned everything all up all these years making the poor poor Israelis look like the good guys who are being attacked by these ruthless Palestinians who've taken their lands thousands of years ago.

Interesting article, but something was missing... let's see, we heard what Obama had to say, and Secretary of State Clinton, and a bevy of her minions at the State Dept...oh, I know!

There was no "House Speaker Boehner said...", "Senator McCain said...", "Senate Minority Leader McConnell said...", "House majority leader Cantor said...".

At first I thought it was because of NBCNEWS's liberal bias that no Republicans were quoted, so I checked FOXNEWS and a couple other conservative leaning sites and guess what?

NOTHING!!!

Well I did find this at FOXNEWS:

Construction there would place a major obstacle for Palestinian statehood by cutting off east Jerusalem from the West Bank and plans there had previously blocked by the Bush administration for that reason.

But apparently, our current republican party leaders do not want to go on record agreeing with Obama on something. Now ask yourselves, just how hard are they really trying to "cross the isles" and work together for the good of our country?

- Progressively Disillusioned Republican

P.S. It is kind of interesting that the spellchecker here suggests "Boner" for Boehner.

What the US should do is let Iran build their nukes and then sit back and watch them and Israel annihilate each other.

Take for example you might be a leader some day ? Would you honestly think that way ?

Peace can be found you just have to know how to look..

wburnes Comment collapsed by the community

Build, build and build more in the sight of your enemies! Expand and NEVER ever allow public opinion to sway what you must do as the Nation Of Israel to defend what is right, moral and the truth of freedom. If it should be, unleash the hounds of hell on these and those that oppose God's people.

Well wburnes.... Just like my profile picture of the Pakistani child hurt in a drone attack, any one who harms children to me are the bad guys.... Wars always leave the children without parents to protect them, and I always stand up to say this is wrong on so amny more levels than most people can understand.... Now having said that:::

Israel should build more places for more people to die right up on the front lines in range for missle attacks and in the faces of the enemy to tease and taunt them into attacking more often.... Now wouldn't that just be a slap in the face to both sides.... Maybe the guy who signs the orders to build ought to be the first to move in.... Oh yeah his balls ain't that big are they....

meanwhile....back in Egypt...

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/01/15578733-egyptians-fear-decades-of-muslim-brotherhood-rule-warn-morsi-is-no-friend-to-us?lite&ocid=msnhp&pos=2

Egyptians fear decades of Muslim Brotherhood rule, warn Morsi is no friend to US

Meanwhile.......back in Iran....

http://flashtrafficblog.wordpress.com/2012/12/01/iaea-reveals-new-evidence-iran-is-pursuing-a-50-kiloton-nuclear-bomb-three-times-as-powerful-as-bomb-dropped-on-hiroshima/

IAEA reveals new evidence Iran is pursuing a 50-kiloton nuclear bomb, three times as powerful as bomb dropped on Hiroshima

Yeah Barry, you are doing a BANG UP JOB on Foreign Policy!!
No pun intended!

I recall when the world looked upon Israel as David but now we are seeing the Goliath or bully on the block. I cannot understand why it was righteous for the UN to declare Israel as a state but when the UN votes to begin the establishment of Palestine as a state Israel begins a negative move in building more homes on land that would become part of this new Palestinian state. A logical conclusion would be that Israel is insuring that no peace talks will happen and a state of Palestine will not happen as long as Israel has the conservative party in place. Sounds like US politics to me. Congress against Senate where there are no winners just losers.

"Why should the Arabs make peace? If I were an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country. Sure, God promised it to us, but what does that matter to them? Our God is not theirs. We come from Israel, it's true, but two thousand years ago, and what is that to them? There has been antisemitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country. Why should they accept that? They may perhaps forget in one or two generations' time, but for the moment there is no chance." David Ben-Gurion, first prime minister of Israel

"For eight years now, they have sat in the refugee camps of Gaza and have watched how, before their very eyes, we have turned their lands and villages, where they and their forefathers previously dwelled, into our home." General Moshe Dayan, Israeli military hero - 1956

warthog213-984171

Well wburnes.... Just like my profile picture of the Pakistani child hurt in a drone attack, any one who harms children to me are the bad guys...

You mean these children?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-kd0NcoxFU

or these children?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDohNq9BORo&feature=endscreen&NR=1

Killian Jones

I do not know whether this was suicide or not.

I do. She choked herself to death while masturbating.

• #1.25 - Fri Dec 7, 2012 8:53 AM PST

Sorry dude I can't give you much credit for anything you type

Its is in the best interest of the US not to defend Israel on this. We need to adhere to what the rest of the world wants also. We must respect the UN's decision, that was done in a vote, and allow this little speck to blossom without our foot on their heads. This cannot go down in history with the US as the bad guys. We cannot hold them responsible for 9/11, and the only other violence against us has been minimal and on their soil, not ours. We have many groups that are absurd, and if that was all that you saw on tv, you would believe America was crazy too. If you go back to the National Geographic from the 1960's and earlier you get the feeling it was much better before..

Good point, Rick. Whatever the past between them is, the fact is that the Palestinians are there and I don't see any point at all in trying to shove every single person out of a country unless you want to start a big fight. Seriously, my eight year olds share a room, and they have to learn to get along even when they don't want to share space. It's part of growing up, and if you don't learn to get along with people and you think your way is the only right way you end up...oh yeah...in a war that lasts forever.

What other purpose is there to building more? They have your own space...use that. I don't get why it's okay for Israel to treat everyone how they do and that's okay, but not for other countries to do that? Geez, if your land is so holy treat it that way and stop bombing each other. Work out a deal where both sides can live decently and leave each other alone. It is in their best interests to have Gaza and West Bank have to follow international laws IF they truly want peace. This makes them look even more like warmongers then they already did. It's time to set down the nonsense of who did what to whom and figure out a reasonable settlement that is fair to both sides. All we hear of is who they want to fight with or bomb next. Ugh.

Basil Romeo

What the UN is effectively doing is dictating terms of a "peace agreement." And if it gives itself and the Palestinians a unilateral mandate to do so with no de-facto peace agreement in place then Israel has the right to expand its settlements. End of story.

Why not? Certainly this country has a long history with Manifest Destiny...right? We should be able to identify with pushing the indigenous off their land to control them.

Ol Doc: Problem with your argument is that both Jews and Arabs are indigenous to the region. Once Hamas abrogates its covenant of genocide (posted above) and accepts a two state solution there will no longer be a problem.

Settlements will surely make the region more peaceful.

That is total sarc. I don't think either side wants peace bad enough, and both are to blame.

@Basil;

Exactly the problem, their way or the highway. This mentality has kept them down for centuries. Israel is a melting pot, look how far they have come as a society. Islam is mired in thousand year old thinking of live and let die, instead of live and let live, look how far they have come.Not very.

Hamas' first move after reuniting with the West Bank was to execute an alleged "Israeli sympathiser". They did this against the due process of the West Banks laws. One should not support statehood for those that can not live by their own rules.

@ chris;

referring to Obama as "the Swartzer President", equivalent in Englis to using the n-word

Then they are ignorant to how much Obama has and is protecting their country at great lengths. Leaders will be bashed until the end of time so what. The PLO and Hamas have a deep hate, not the same as poitical bashing.

@ ol doc;

Have you ever heard of an occupied people being peaceful?

The West Bank is not being occupied, nor is Gaza, although with this latest bonehead move they might be soon.

@Chris: "all you have to do is read the op-ed sections of the online English versions of Israeli newspapers and televisio stations. They tend to follow Netty' example of referring to Obama as "the Swartzer President", equivalent in Englis to using the n-word. And apparently the word "kus" is more frequently used to refer to SecState Clinton. The Israeli press seems to thing that all Americans are poorly educated, flthy rich, Jew-hating, boobs who do nothing but watch TV and think up ways to harrass Israelis."

Please provide your sources with links.

Basil wrote -"The desire of the Muslims to commit Jewish genocide has existed since the days of Allah and did not start with the onset of the Arab-Israeli conflict.":

If what you wrote were true Basil, the Arabs would have committed their genocide when they controlled the entire area of what is now Israel and Palestine. The Jews were a minority and it would have been easy to get rid of them, by either driving them out or killing them. They did neither. Your post is pure Zionist propaganda.

Your claim that Russian Jews are indigenous to the region is untrue. No one has a problem with the Jews who lived on their land in what is now Israel prior to 1947, or their existing relatives. It is the Eastern European and some American Jews that cause all the problems.

I hope the Palestinians file charges of Israeli war crimes. Most of the world knows the Zionist government is composed of war criminals.

"It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion,
clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten with
time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism, colonialization or Jewish
State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their
lands."

Yoram Bar Porath, Yediot Aahronot, of 14 July 1972.

Rick-881466 said:

Israel's opposition to Palestinian Observer Status at the UN, and the response of building more settlements, seems to confirm the Palestinian contention that Israel has no intention of pursuing a peaceful coexistence.

Perhaps you've simply not been following this conflict, but the Palestinians reject any attempt at negotiations requiring all or nothing, every time Israel gives land to the Palestinians they use that as a new point from which to launch rockets. Every ceasefire has been used by Hamas as a way to re-arm for the next offensive. Also, Hamas is internationally recognized as a terrorist organization.

Tell me again who is not interested in a peaceful coexistence.

Israel will never make peace with the Arabs who want all Israel for themselves. Abbas tries to do it politically and Hamas tries to do it militarily. Israel can only resist and fight on. I'm glad PM Netanyahu choose to do this, the Arabs will try to weaken Israel any way they can before the next war. Most of the world doesn't like the Jewish people anyway, no matter what they do. When Hamas puts their weapons next to schools and hospitals, and in between people's homes, then brings out pictures of dead children for all the world to see, blaming Israel for their deaths, the world says nothing, the Arabs just need to go away. What ever Israel does to fight them works for me!!

What a load of crap. Israel keeps building/stealing more land constantly and refuses to stop. ALL the Israelis want is to take ALL west bank land and exterminate or remove the Palastinians..

NBC: "Those negotiations have been stalled for two years, however, given Palestinian anger at continued Israeli settlement expansion." Incorrect. The negotiations were stalled because of rivalry between Fatah and Hamas and continued shelling of Southern Israel by Hamas. Stop the shelling, accept Israel's right to exist, and settlement expansion will stop, because in that case Israeli's will vote the "extreme right" right out of office.

To those of you who beleive that the Palestinians have never been offered a state of their own.

The Palestinians have actually had numerous opportunities to create an independent state, but have repeatedly rejected the offers:

In 1937, the Peel Commission proposed the partition of Palestine and the creation of an Arab state.

In 1939, the British White Paper proposed the creation of a unitary Arab state.

In 1947, the UN would have created an even larger Arab state as part of its partition plan.

The 1979 Egypt-Israel peace negotiations offered the Palestinians autonomy, which would almost certainly have led to full independence.

The Oslo agreements of the 1990s laid out a path for Palestinian independence, but the process was derailed by terrorism.

In 2000, Prime Minister Ehud Barak offered to create a Palestinian state in all of Gaza and 97 percent of the West Bank.

In 2008, Prime Minister Ehud Olmert offered to withdraw from almost the entire West Bank and partition Jerusalem on a demographic basis.

In addition, from 1948 to 1967, Israel did not control the West Bank. The Palestinians could have demanded an independent state from the Jordanians.

The Palestinians have spurned each of these opportunities. A variety of reasons have been given for why the Palestinians have in Abba Eban's words, "never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity." Historian Benny Morris has suggested that the Palestinians have religious, historical, and practical reasons for opposing an agreement with Israel. He says that "Arafat and his generation cannot give up the vision of the greater land of Israel for the Arabs. [This is true because] this is a holy land, Dar al-Islam [the world of Islam]. It was once in the hands of the Muslims, and it is inconceivable [to them] that infidels like us [the Israelis] would receive it."

The Palestinians also believe that time is on their side. "They feel that demographics will defeat the Jews in one hundred or two hundred years, just like the Crusaders." The Palestinians, Morris says, also hope the
Arabs will acquire nuclear weapons in the future that will allow them to defeat Israel. 8

"Barak made a proposal that was as forthcoming as anyone in the world could imagine, and Arafat turned it down. If you have a country that's a sliver and you can see three sides of it from a high hotel building, you've got to be careful what you give away and to whom you give it."

— U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld 9

basil... I didn't know hitler was a muslim. I thought he was 1/6 jew and 5/6 christian

u.n also dictated the creation of isreal and you didn't have any problem with that. and on what base does isreal has the right to build in the occupied west bank. I think your time and isreali time of decieving others is over. the u.n is "representative of all countries voicing as one" the amazing # of countries "138 to 9"who voted for palestinian state and against isreal shows that the world have lost their support and sympathy for isreal.

For the above post #2.20 see "Myths and Facts - A Guide to the Arab-Israeli Conflict" for more information.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths3/mythsorder6.html

If you object to the source, as I know some of you will, research these statements on your own and I'm certain you'll find them to be accurate.

The UN has voted for a Palestinian country. The borders are set. A two state solution has been achieved. Both sides can learn to live within these two states. But Israel doesn't even wait a full day before they start planning what is in fact an act of war. I hope they change their minds, I hope that both sides try to make the best of this. 98% of Israeli's and Palestinians would be happy to live within these borders so lets hope the 2% don't screw it up. With a little work and sacrifice the children born tomorrow will only read about this conflict in their history books and not live it. Just a little work and sacrifice.

A bunch of bureaucrats cant create a viable country. A viable country has to be able to defend itself to survive. Palestinians have been failing this for decades. A UN vote wont change reality.

Basil Romeo

Ol Doc: Problem with your argument is that both Jews and Arabs are indigenous to the region. Once Hamas abrogates its covenant of genocide (posted above) and accepts a two state solution there will no longer be a problem.

1. Don't get me wrong, neither side are virgins and Israel has had it's own brush with committing genocide (Caanan). I just don't see the point of continual agitation of Palestinians. Bulldozing people's homes will not discourage them from firing rockets at you.

2. Regarding Manifest Destiny, your statement of a difference in the situation may or may not be relevant.: Solutrean hypothesis, the archeological jury is still out.

Basil Romeo

One other thing I would also mention is that I have always been a huge backer of Israel...not questions asked...until the attack on the USS Liberty June 8, 1967. Israel's bulls!t excuses never held water. I also don't think much of a nation who's press attack our administration (using racist and sexist statements) and yet holds their hand out for US bucks.

If Israel want's to keep this friend...they had better remember how to treat a friend...they don't have many!

Thanks Ol Doc. Never forget the USS Liberty.

@Ol Doc and GTR5:

Grasping at straws? It's amazing that Jew haters consistently turn to the Liberty whenever they have little or nothing to say to further their misguided arguments. The reason that the Liberty was an accident rather
than a deliberate attack was motive. What would the Israelis have gained by purposely attacking an ally that was instrumental in liberating the Jews during WWII and relatively soon after the war ended? The Liberty, though decidedly tragic, pales in comparison, and is a drop in the ocean relative to the number of American lives and the lives of other nationals that the Islamists have taken since then. Your argument is, therefore, ridiculous. Blind hatred has taken over reason.

peanutGalleryTheater

A bunch of bureaucrats cant create a viable country. A viable country has to be able to defend itself to survive. Palestinians have been failing this for decades.

Do you understand how stupid that comment is?

During WWII the following countries were occupied by NAZI Germany and were unable to defend themselves:

Albanian Kingdom
Federal State of Austria
Belgium
Byelorussian SSR
Czechoslovakia
Denmark
Estonia
France
Greece
Guernsey
Hungary
Italy
Jersey
Latvia
Lithuania
Luxembourg
Monaco
Netherlands
Norway
Poland
San Marino
Slovak Republic
Ukrainian SSR
Yugoslavia

During WWII the following Nations and territories were Occupied by Imperial Japan and unable to defend themselves:

regions in mainland China
Portuguese Timor
Hong Kong (UK)
French Indochina
Thailand
Burma (UK)
British New Guinea
Philippines (USA)
Malaya (UK)
Andaman and Nicobar Islands (India)
Straits Settlements (Singapore)
Sarawak (UK)
Brunei (UK)
British North Borneo
Nauru (Australia, New Zealand and UK)
Dutch East Indies
Guam (USA)
Imphal (India)
Wake Island (USA)
Gilbert and Ellice Islands (UK)
Christmas island (Australia)
Attu and Kiska (Alaska)

I don't think much of your criteria.

@ol doc;

You get voted up on mis information trying to say the West bank and Gaza are being "occupied",lol, and you show up again with this .

I don't think much of your criteria.

Maybe you should check your own criteria before busting on others criteria.lol You have the nerve to call others "stupid".

If Isreal had wanted peace, there would be peace already. They don't want peace, they want piece. a piece here a piece there and so on. THEY WANT THE WATER. They will do all they can to avoid peace, but now the world is watching. now the world in NOT on their side, Oo

Well thank goodness it is not your decision. Every one of you who are now pro Palestine are also pro terrorist

You're saying this like its still 2002 when something this ridiculous would still be believed. The United States might not be pro-Palestinian at the moment, but after Iraq our public seems to have woken up to the fact that the pro-Isreal crowd probably doesn't much care about our national interests.

Transpency showing here: US rips Israel for growing Settlements.

This Administration has never been a friend of Israel. Israel has the right to protect themselves.

President Obama claims he supports Israel. Never.

@Basil: You talk about blind hatered? I havbe rarely come across one like you that is as blindly hating of the Palestinian, or muslims in general, except for a Israeli Jew.

The Israeli's learned from well from the Nazis and Russians and where they continue their own pogroms against the Palestinians.

The Israeli government is not interested in a two state solution, and has not bargained in good faith. Israelis have no right to the land they are taking, it is illegal under international law (UN 242).

Basil Romeo

@Ol Doc:

Grasping at straws? It’s amazing that Jew haters consistently turn to the Liberty whenever they have little or nothing to say to further their misguided arguments. The reason that the Liberty was an accident ratherthan a deliberate attack was motive.

Motive is not a reason. And you want motive? How about the US Liberty was a Navy Intelligence ship close enough to the disputed to make the Israelis quite uncomfortable. When you refer to Israel as an Ally remember that alliance is pretty much one-sided. We have supported them since 1947 with huge amounts of money, huge amounts of weaponry and significant intelligence. What we've gotten in return so far is some cooperation and restraint and them badmouthing the US in their press. As I said before, I still support Israel but I don't necessarily trust them...and certainly not where there is a potential conflict of interest.

The Liberty, though decidedly tragic, pales in comparison, and is a drop in the ocean relative to the number of American lives and the lives of other nationals that the Islamists have taken since then. Your argument is, therefore, ridiculous. Blind hatred has taken over reason.

Which in turn, pales to the number of lives worldwide taken by Christianists throughout history. I'm not suggesting we break ties with Israel...but we sure as hell can demand our due respect! And while we support their right to defend themselves...direct and intentional provocation crosses the line and they need to know we won't condone just any old action they decide to unilaterally take.

So the Israelis are settling more land that they won in wars against their enemies whose objective was to eliminate Israel. They developed the land and made t economically viable, while the Palestinians have trashed the land.

The Palestinians continue to support Hamas, which launches rockets targeting civilians in Israel, and launches them from civilian areas in Gaza, hoping that Israel retaliates and kills Palestinian civilians used as human shields. And when Israel does kill human shields, they show up all over the Internet and TV to say to the world"look what the Israelis did". Now the UN has recognized the Palestinians as a non member state, a non member state lead by a recognized terrorist group.

Oy.

Coral Taxi

@ol doc;

You get voted up on mis information trying to say the West bank and Gaza are being "occupied",lol, and you show up again with this.

Misinformation? When you have the ability to isolate and blockade a group of people at will...and choose to institute it...I for one consider that occupation. What do you call it...foreign policy?

@ Basil Romeo. I never grasp at straws, I don't need to. The attack on the USS Liberty was a deliberate attack on a US Navy ship that was in international waters. It was no accident, no fog of war, no mistake. The Israeli thugs deliberately attacked the USS Liberty on 8 June 1967 and to this date, no one has ever been help responsible for the murder of 34 US sailors. This is shameful.

It is interesting to read the various interpretations of the Israeli/Palestinian arguments and politics and the role we are playing in the ever changing political landscape in that region.

Let me go back in history for a moment. If I remember correctly, the whole region in question, used to belong to the Persians, then Romans, for hundreds of years each. Then for shorter periods came the Fatimites, Saladins and Ayyubids, Abbasids. Then from about the 13^th century right up to the beginning of the 20^th century the region was ruled by the Ottomans. So using the logic of many, the land in dispute between Israel and the Palestinians rightly belongs to Turks (Ottoman Empire) and should be returned to them. WW1 and WW2 however sealed their fate, the empire fell apart.

There were many reasons for its demise but one of these reasons was the fact that Turks lost on the battlefield and what was once their land became fragmented and new international boundaries were drawn.

When Israel was established in 1948 following UN partition of Palestine, Israel, in it’s short history, was attacked several times by its neighbors and won each time. Each time, to secure its borders, Israel retained some of the won land, including parts of the West Bank. That’s where Israel is building their settlements. Many now argue that this is illegal???

Not so, wars change landscapes and move international boundaries all the time. There are many examples of countries expanding their borders following victory on the battlefield, just like in Israel’s case.

Perhaps what Palestinians should be focusing on is to make peace with Israel. They would be much better off and would flourish as a culture and people.

In March 1977, Zahir Muhsein, an executive member of the Palestinian Liberation Organization ("P.L.O."), said in an interview to the Dutch newspaper Trouw: "The 'Palestinian people' does not exist.
The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the State of Yisraél."

Wtw,

Due to WWll, Mankind moved towards being a more civilized society. The UN was created to try and end war. It was not successful. Some good things did come out of it. The partition of Palistine in 1947 was one that neither of the two sides liked, but it was and remains the best solution.

FtBRG:

"OY" is right. This is one H of a mess.

The Extremists are successfully taking over the world, and most Americans do not care--

What a shame, because it is a subject they will have to deal with in their own personal way---Iranian Leader Ahdinemajad was right, and he is seeing/experiencing success.

Marchant

The Extremists are successfully taking over the world, and most Americans do not care--

You're absolutely right. We should be keeping a close eye on the Fundamentalist Christians.

@ doc;

When you have the ability to isolate and blockade a group of people at will...and choose to institute it...I for one consider that occupation. What do you call it

They are isolated because they were commiting acts of terror weekly for years. If they knew how to live peacefully with Israel there would be no cause for either. This is not occupation, this is called protecting your citizens from terror, not occupation, Israel does not wish to occupy the Gaza or the West Bank.

I still support Israel but I don't necessarily trust them...and certainly not where there is a potential conflict of interest.

This statement is a conflict of interest.lol You are trying to play both sides of the coin. ie You are talking out both sides of your mouth sir.

@Ol_Doc,

2.36 Only people with a really deep hatred of Israel drag up the USS Liberty. There have been many more deaths of US service people from other US allies than those lives lost on the USS Liberty. So let the USS Liberty sleep in peace.

2.38. Only really ignorant and myopic people call the Israeli blockade of Gaza out as an occupation or as some unfair foreign policy action. The blockade of Gaza is to prevent the importing of weapons and articles that are designed to help Hamas wage its campaign of terror almost everything else can get into Gaza. If you think that a naval blockade against a sovereign territory is bad foreign policy might I remind you of a certain blockade against Cuba 50 years ago. What was the purpose of that blockade again? Oh wait a minute, I remember, that was to prevent the Cuba from acuiring with ballistic missiles from the USSR that could rain down on the US without any warning. Even after the blockade was lifted the US has maintained forthe last 50 years an almost complete trade embargo against Cuba and the US still occupies a portion of Cuba. I wonder what would happen to Cuba if they decided to protest the US embargo and occupation of Cuba with a campaign of suicide bombings and indiscriminate rocket and missile launches?

Ol_Doc I see you for what you are and I've noticed that many others here have seen the same thing. You view history and events through a lens that distorts truth and fact and then serve it up to fit your anti-Israel and also probably anti-Semitic agenda. You even go so far as to support a group of people who would have no respect for you or your way of life because it furthers your agenda. You have conveniently forgotten that these same people celebrated and danced in the streets when the events of 9/11 were broadcast around the world. None of this matters to you because your hatred and bigotry has blinded you from facts and reason. I have nothing except pity for someone that decides to live in a world of built on a foundation of total ignorance.

First of all, we need to back this story up to 1947 when, by international court of law, a piece of the Palestinian land was ceded to the Israelis. REPEAT: PALESTINIAN LAND WAS CEDED TO THE ISRAELIS.

Have you got that embedded in your brain? Okay. Then let's move on. What happens next is that, despite the grudging agreement to allow the Israelis to have a piece - over a third - of their land, the Palestinians agreed to live in peace. But the Israelis see the Palestinians as the interlopers and decide that they want more than one-third of the land.

So, by 1950, the first act of aggression: the Israelis have begun setting up settlements in Palestinian territory. The Palestinians fight back. The Israelis fight back. There is massive bloodshed and loss of life, and the international body, now a part of the United Nations, intervenes. The UN negotiates a peace treaty of sorts between the two warring neighbors but, in the early 60's the progressive Israeli settlement of Palestinian land ends up garnering Israel more than half of what was once the Palestinian land.

Repeatedly over the next half century little skirmishes become huge wars and people's children are slaughtered over land. There came the "midnight settlements" where the Israelis would go into Palestinian territory in the middle of the night and set up pre-fab housing and put families into them whereby, according to the law of that time, "pre-existing" Israeli residents could not be made to leave the Palestinian land. By this method, Israel manage to reduce the Palestinian land to approximately one fifth of the originally divided '47 land. When the UN again tried to negotiate peace between the two nations, one thing the Palestinians were adamant about was that they wanted the territories to return to the '47 boundaries. Israel, of course, refused ... and the fighting continued.

Now, looking at how this debacle actually unfolded, is it any wonder the Palestinians are angry ... with EVERYBODY!? The world has watched Israel slowly steal their land until they are left with some of the most un-tillable land in the region. The United States, which once supported BOTH sides of the war, gradually became Israel's strongest ally. This, then, would, in a court of law, make Mr. US an accessory after the fact of the theft of land of priceless proportions. So, is it any wonder the Palestinians are angry with the US?

Over the last thirty years, the US has progressively invested money and energy in supporting and promoting Israel while, all the while, bearing witness to the abusive manner in which that nation has ignored all pacts and treaties with Palestine and, when Palestine tries to fight back, that nation is then pictures as being the evil invader!

Just because you love you country, doesn't mean it is always right. And, in this case, I believe the United States has been on the wrong side of the war and it's about time a president stood up and said so!

Rightly or wrongly the American public has gradually begun to associate Israel with the Bush Administration and the war in Iraq. People can blame Obama all they want for the decline in American-Israel relations, but I don't think its any coincidence that things started to go south after Americans realized that the same people who got us into the biggest disaster in the history of American foreign policy were fanatically pro-Israel to a man.

I wouldn't exactly say we're pro-Arab, but clearly this isn't 2002 where the blame-everything-on-the-Palestinians approach will suffice. People won't stand for it anymore.

Israel has been attacked by Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt, Syria and by proxy many other Arab nations. Have any of these countries paid anything to Israel as war reparations, for the people they killed or offered assistance to Israel to rebuild the damage these countries caused?

The boundaries of the countries of Europe have changed many times. I have never heard of one country demanding that its borders being returned to previous boundaries. The Russian enslaved countries were liberated to pre WWII boundaries in many instances.

However, to the victor belong the spoils. Israel won the land and is using the land it won. Obummer is still showing his masterful approach to a failed foreign policy. The Jews gave him over 75% of their vote and now he is telling a sovereign country what they can do within their borders. Do you hear Mexico telling the U.S. what to do with the land that the U.S. took from Mexico?

Obummer is showing him to be the same idiot on foreign policy as he was before the election. He forgets that the Arabs attacked Israel multiple times and just recently the Gazans sent more than 1000 rockets into Israel?

Obummer has a knee jerk foreign policy. Trillions spent on Iraq and the one important policy he did not implement was establish a prowestern foreign government in Iraq. One anti american government takes over from another anti american government. Upon election, he should have immediately withdrawn all troops and let them fend for themselves. Which he eventually did.

If Obummer had military control of Iraq and did nothing, how can he tell a pro western government what they should do?

This is simply the Israelis telling the UN what they think of the vote. I am not saying that I agree with what Israel is doing here, only that I understand the reason they did it. One thing that people tend to forget in this entire debate is that the Palestinians have no legal claim what-so-ever to the West Bank land. Prior to the 1967 war this land belonged to Jordan. The Israelis took over the West Bank from Jordan as a result of that war and the Jordanians have not made any effort to get the land back. This is because the Jordanians do not want to deal with the Palestinians. They, like Israel, realize that the Palestinians will never be happy and do not really want peace. This is because if there were peace the Palestinian leadership would have no one else to blame for the horrible conditions their people live in. So long as there is no peace, the Palestinian leadership can blame the Israelis for the plight of their people. Without the fighting they would have to take the responsibility themselves and the people would soon recognize that their leadership is completely incompetent and has been robbing them blind for decades. After all, where do you think Arafat got the millions of dollars he had stashed in Swiss and French bank accounts that is allowing his widow to lead the good life in France now that he is dead.

I am not saying that Israel is doing the right thing here, just that I do not see the Palestinians ever agreeing to anything reasonable to achieve peace. Back in the 90's they were offered a deal that gave them 97% of the land they said they wanted as well as many other concessions but they flatly rejected the offer. Any deal that Israel can live with will never be acceptable to the Palestinians. There are many Palestinian factions that will not even agree that Israel has a right to exist at all, so how can anyone expect there to ever be peace. There are a significant number of Palestinians that will only be happy if the entirety of the state of Israel is turned over to them and the Jewish people evicted. This is the basic stance of Hamas, who the people of Gaza elected as their leaders. There is no negotiating with people when their starting point is such an extremely irrational position. Even with the more moderate Palestinians, if you can call them that, there are some things that will prevent there ever being peace. The biggest of these issues is the fact that Israel will never agree to the partitioning of Jerusalem. The Israelis see Jerusalem as their historic and eternal capital and will never agree to giving up any part of it. The Palestinians want at least part of Jerusalem to set up their capital, despite the fact that their current seat of government is in Ramallah, which is something Israel will never agree to. There were even some proposal put forth years ago to make Jerusalem an international city under the auspices of the UN, but this idea did not sit well with either side. Until the Palestinians realize that they are never going to get part of Jerusalem there will never be a peace treaty.

Obama and his administration bailed on Israel and have done NOTHING to protect them. So, if the Israelis tell the UN and the US to screw themselves I applaud them. Who the heck does Clinton think she is to tell them anything. We should be telling the UN to screw themselves. The UN is made up of abunch of radical muslim loving terrorists. We don't need them for anything and need to cut all ties to them.

Israel is never going to let up moving further into Arab territory as long as they have us behind them. As much as I like Jews and have many friends that are, I'm getting pretty sick and tired of them doing sh!t like this.

Well I am a Jew living in America, my homeland, and I abhor the constant Israeli actions against the Palestinians. They have no right to this land, to build further settlements upon it, and to deny the Palestinians access to it. Slowly but surely the Israelis are stealing every last inch of the Palesitnians land and then illegally building on it in defiance of international law. I no longer have any respect for the Likud or right wing warmongers in Israel, they have no desire for peace. They want America to give them money even though they refuse to sign the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty. Israel has become a rogue zionist entity that resembles in many respects a terrorist state. Sad, truly sad. There must be a two state solution otherwise there will never be peace.

Israel is just doing what they need to do to keep their God given land. The Lord God gave all that land to the 12 tribes of Israel. The "palestinians" and the "un" as well as Iran and Syria had better look back and see what happens when they oppose Israel. Look at the 6 Day War. God is behind Israel and when God is for you, who can prevail against you?

You're such a fake 'George-251whatever' - get a life.

You know, the Palestinians, not people I give a flying f&%^ about, have gotten the shaft from the Israelis (people I give even less of a S*^& about) for about 70 years now. The Israelis keep doing whatever the hell they want and act like if you object that you must be an anti-semite. F&^$% the Israelis and their crappy incursions on the Palestineans! I hope the whole region gets nuked by Iran and Israel and melts down to melted glass. You religious ass holes deserve all the misery you get but I am sad for Palestine which took it in the butt back in 1946 when the English left them to take it in the butt from the Israelis.

Thes are the same people were chanting death to america after 9/11. Nothing has changed

In 1948 when the Un mandate allowed portions of palestine to become a new Jewish homeland, the Arab league responded by unleashing a war against the survivors of the Holocaust. the new nation of Israel responded by saying never again. palestinians are getting their just rewards for killing Jews. it is a tough world out there. get over it. it is what it is.

UN create the State of Israel, UN will destroy it with the creation of the State of Palestine. Times change , UN once a forum for countries that support Human Rights , UN now a forum that welcome terrorist and tyrants. UN peace award to Mohamad Ajmadenijad and the most popular president Hugo Chavez , BRAVO!!!!!

George # 4.7

Shame on you. Most of my Jews friends disagree with you, you are a far left wing nut , a pariah. Do you deny the holocaust has well like most Arabs do.

The worst thing we did for that region is allow a bunch of Ashkenazic jews originally from the step regions of Russia to occupy it. The 2nd worst thing we did for that region is to allow Lyndon Johnson to give Israel a nuclear capability, something that JFK was totally against. It was also the main reasons why JFK was murdered.

A little known fact is Lyndon Johnson was actually Jewish on both his maternal grandparents side. You are right about the assassination. Extra, Extra, Read all about it.

http://www.jweekly.com/article/full/36262/friend-ally-savior-revealing-lbj-s-jewish-ties/

Research into
Johnson's personal history indicates that he inherited his concern for the
Jewish people from his family. His aunt Jessie Johnson Hatcher, a major
influence on LBJ, was a member of the Zionist Organization of America. As a
young boy, Lyndon watched his politically active grandfather "Big Sam"
and father "Little Sam" seek clemency for Leo Frank, the Jewish
victim of a blood libel in Atlanta. Frank was lynched by a mob in 1915, and the
Ku Klux Klan in Texas threatened to kill the Johnsons. Johnson's speechwriter
later stated, "Johnson often cited Leo Frank's lynching as the source of
his opposition to both anti-Semitism and isolationism."

Lyndon Johnson’s maternal ancestors, the Huffmans, apparently migrated to
Frederick, Maryland from Germany sometime in the mid-eighteenth century. Later
they moved to Bourbon, Kentucky and eventually settled in Texas in the
mid-to-late nineteenth century.¹⁰

According to Jewish law, if a person’s mother is
Jewish, then that person is automatically Jewish, regardless of the father’s
ethnicity or religion. The facts indicate that both of Lyndon Johnson’s
great-grandparents, on the maternal side, were Jewish. These were the
grandparents of Lyndon’s mother, Rebecca Baines.¹¹
Their names were John S. Huffman and Mary Elizabeth Perrin.¹²
John Huffman’s mother was Suzanne Ament, a common Jewish name. Perrin is also a
common Jewish name.

Huffman and Perrin had a daughter, Ruth Ament Huffman,¹³
who married Joseph Baines¹⁴
and together they had a daughter, Rebekah Baines,¹⁵
Lyndon Johnson’s mother. The line of Jewish mothers can be traced back three
generations in Lyndon Johnson’s family tree. There is little doubt that he was
Jewish.

More http://www.jfkmontreal.com/johnson_highlights.htm

Yeah "Slam", right. We never do anything about it though and we could do quite a lot.

We give Israel 3-4 billion a year in aid. Military and otherwise.

http://www.dropshots.com/GCaplan#date/2012-09-30/19:00:44

That's right USA is an ally to Israel, because that's what majority of Americans prefers.

Those who can't live with the fact that majority of their countrymen disagree with them are welcome to move.

Obama and his administration bailed on Israel and have done NOTHING to protect them.

And you are? Instead of being some random poster hiding behind a keyboard, how about lacing up your combat boots and help protect them.

I don't call giving them 3 billion a year plus jets, tanks munitions, arms and missiles doing nothing to protect them.

The only thing we don't provide them to launch an all out invasion, are the troops. Is that what you want? Will that make you happy?

For good measure though, and to have the predictable role of mediator and potential military might, we also give Egypt 1.3 billion a year and all the trimming like Israel.

This is what we do. We give countries the means to attack each other, or themselves, and then we ride in on our red white and blue steed to save the day.

As long as the Camp David Accords are around, we are doing far more than our fair share of protecting them. If they still need help after all we have provided them with, maybe they should hoist up a white flag.

The UN is made up of abunch of radical muslim loving terrorists.

The burden of proof is on you and I have no faith in you being able to substantiate your statement.

So, if the Israelis tell the UN and the US to screw themselves I applaud them.

Will never happen. Israel gets billions in welfare from us. Not to mention all the military training and hand outs. Without the U.S. and the U.N., Israel would have been wiped off the map by now.

Try looking at things from a different perspective other than finding a way to tie in some Obama administration hate into it.

Transpency showing here: US rips Israel for growing Settlements.

This Administration has never been a friend of Israel. Israel has the right to protect themselves.

President Obama claims he supports Israel. Never.

Obama just gave them 3 billion and 20 deadly stealth aircraft. Obama is elected to serve Americans not Israel.

The worst thing we did for that region is allow a bunch of Ashkenazic jews originally from the step regions of Russia to occupy it.

The Khazar theory was dismissed long ago by people who know about the DNA evidence. It continued to be bandied around by conspiracy nuts. DNA, specifically y-chDNA (DNA from the Y chromosome), shows that Ashkenazi carry much of the same DNA as Yemeni and Sephardi Jews. In spite of the colors of their skins, the DNA shows the Ashkenazi Jews belong there in Israel.

Interestingly enough, the same 13 paternal DNA lineages found in Ashkenazi and other Jews can be found in many Palestinians.

They have no right to this land, to build further settlements upon it...

Allah says otherwise. Al Qur'an, Al Isra' 1-8, 101-104. (That is Surah 17:1-8 and 17:101-104 for English readers unfamiliar with the titles of the Surat of the Qur'an).

We give Israel 3-4 billion a year in aid.

America gives Palestinians aid, too (and to Egypt, and to others). Just not weapons.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RS22967.pdf

Can the world be hostage any longer by these two groups of people? Repeated injustice by one over the other and once in a while at times stray rockets from Gaza on Israel complicates the issue. Why the world powers, United Nations, EU, OIC, Vatican, Representative of the Jewish people, etc cant sit together to arrive at some decision practical and fair to both and impose that upon them?

For pity's sake. The picture included says it all. A Palestinian man with a sling and a rock. Boy the Israeli people must be quaking in fear from that threat. A sling and rock sheesh.

A deliberate provocation. Go ahead, Hamas, and fire those annoying little bottle rockets. Next time, make sure you include a ban on Israeli expansion as one of the clauses in the ceasefire agreement.

Meddlesome fools. They've been at it since 1967 and they're no closer to a solution. Hamas and Hezbolah cease to exist or there will never be piece for Israel or the Palestinian people. These limited wars are a waste of the citizen's money and lives. Israel should stop listening. When someone fires a rocket into your country you end them and their entire family. No compromise, and the meddlesome fools should stay out of it.

its easy for israels leaders to pretend that they want a peaceful and just conclusion to the gaza situation. the real problem is that they don't.when you have all of the firepower and money backers you are dealing from a position of strength and everyone knows when you are the strongest you make deals only when it suits you.israel could have a working peace agreement in 30 days if they were so inclined.the u.s. sends billions of dollars annually in money and modern arms to israel, why would they want to give all of that up? so even though the average person on the street would like some peace and security the leaders of israel would rather continue the political game they are playing.why? because its very, very, profitable!

The whole "promised land" premise that this land grab is based on, is acredited to Abraham (Genesis 15:7). This was several hundred years before any of the early bible stories were written down. They were passed down orally from generation to generation.

Did you ever play telephone when you were a kid? Whisper a short message form one person to another through 20 people and see how the last message compares with the first. Multiply that by 20 generations of oral 'history' to measure the accuracy of early bible stories.

Really Ed? You are advocating genocide as a method of solving this issue? If someone was denying you the right to go work the farms/orchards your family had worked for generations and so you threw rocks or shot off rockets, we should kill you and your family? Do you think the fact that Israel killed more women and children than combatants may be part of why the Palestinian state was just recognized by the UN?

Isreal wants to attack Iran. Should we support them if they do that? I think we need a law that says we can not go to war until Bush's wars are paid off. Obama is trying to keep us out of another unfunded war by keeping a professional distance with Israel. He is not refusing to recognize them or support them in a limited manner. He is trying to keep us out of a war that the right wing nut job in Israel wants. Remember that the loser of our election said he would go to war with Iran. I think the majority of American people support the position our President is taking because the whole huggy, kissy relationship with Israel is not good for our country as it will make Israel feel safe to attack Iran.

President Obama drew a nice big line in the sand that says we support Israel's right to defend it's borders. I read that to say they have our support if they are being attacked but not if they declare war on another nation. You can't complain about the war driven national debt and then attack a president who knows how to keep us out of a war we don't belong in. If Israel attacks Iran or continues to move into Palestinian territory, they are the aggressors and should have to fight their own war without our help. What America needs right now is to stay home and take care of its own people.

The only thing Obama wants to see expanding in the Middle East is the control by the radical Muslim brotherhood!

Every move he has made so far has served to strengthen the brotherhood! Do not listen to what Obama is saying, look at what he is doing!

Goatroper- Hey men! Love your comment. When the Palestinians start behaving like human beings, change their views about Israel and stop the attacks then maybe Israel will work with this terrorist group. Israel has the right to protect themselves and the US and UN have no right to dictate. U.S. needs to butt out and worry about the problems right here at home, they done enough damage through out the middle east. The U.N. needs to go fly a kite.

Goatroper...Can you show us in black and white where besides the Old Testament, a part of the Bible, written by Jews for Jews, that the 12 tribes were promised that land? You can, however, find numerous historical books written since the time of Ghenghis Khan that shows that land was called Palestine, a name some in Jewish culture would love to pretend never existed.

Sorry, I don't believe in "chosen people" or "promised lands" ...Promise land to Israelis of today means nothing more than "Israeli eminent domain."

Netanyahu is viewed by the world as an instigator. He uses his subtle warmongering tactics to instigate trouble and then plays the role of "victim." ...It's not flying anymore.

Most Americans could care less one way or another if the entire Middle Easterners kill each other off as they are going to do anyway.

I'm fed up reading biased posts in support of Israel that don't also take a hard, sharp look at the instigation of the troubles Israel starts. They are on their own. This country cannot continue to support violent men who love battle so much they'd don't give a crappola how many other countries of the world they inveigle into their warmongering messes.

You could apply your reasoning to the seizure of Indian lands though out this Nation. It works equally as well. Sometimes might makes right, as in the case of the US, and "Manifest Destiny", as well as Israel. Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones.

That said, Israel is simply enhancing its own troubles and volatile issues by expanding settlements. It just completely belies the claim they want to live in peace, as one of the central issues between the two becomes gradually eaten away by "Settlements", somewhat as termites destroy a sound, wooden house.

That said, I support Israel, but this is a bad decision, if they truly want peace.

Israel does not want peace. Israel wants the land called Palestine.

And that's what the Palestinians and the Jews are fighting for - the land called Palestine.

US needs to stop funneling multi $Bs every year to Israel and stop supporting Israel in their land grab. Just giving lip service in denouncing Israelie land grab is not enough. Obama needs to stop the flow of US taxpayers' money.

"Why should the Arabs make peace? If I were an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country. Sure, God promised it to us, but what does that matter to them? Our God is not theirs. We come from Israel, it's true, but two thousand years ago, and what is that to them? There has been antisemitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country. Why should they accept that? They may perhaps forget in one or two generations' time, but for the moment there is no chance." David Ben-Gurion, first prime minister of Israel

"For eight years now, they have sat in the refugee camps of Gaza and have watched how, before their very eyes, we have turned their lands and villages, where they and their forefathers previously dwelled, into our home." General Moshe Dayan, Israeli military hero - 1956

The White House and the State Department said on Friday a new Israeli settlement expansion plan was "counterproductive" and could make it harder to bring Israel and the Palestinians back to the negotiating table.

What a bunch of incompetent morons we have running this country. Do they actually think the Palestinians and their terrorist leaders will accept anything but the total destruction of Israel?

Remaining in complete denial of this fact, only serves to enable and perpetuate the violence because the followers of the moon god know they have nothing to fear from a frightenend and inept Obama.

Goatroper...Can you show us in black and white where besides the Old Testament, a part of the Bible, written by Jews for Jews, that the 12 tribes were promised that land?

Al Qur'an, Al Isra' 1-8, 101-104. (That would be Surah 17:1-8 and 17:101-104). That was written for Arabs by an Arab and claimed to be the very words of Allah.

Quite clearly states that Allah commanded the Bani Isra'il (sons of Israel) to enter into the land under Moses, wherein is surrounded the Remote Mosque (in Jerusalem, the placing of Muhammad's Night Journey), and to "dwell securely in the land" until the gathering at the end time.

By the way, that includes the West Bank. It is just that Muslims in the area don't believe their own holy book anymore.

You can, however, find numerous historical books written since the time of Ghenghis Khan that shows that land was called Palestine, a name some in Jewish culture would love to pretend never existed.

I know historical references older than that. However, Palestine was never a nation. It was a region of land that contained several nations and peoples. The land stretched from Syria to Wadi el-'Arish on the Sinai. And, in the ancient documents, there is no such people known as "Palestinians" in the region called Palestine.

On the other hand, in modern times both Jews and Arabs apparently were known as "Palestinians" toward the end of the British Mandate for Palestine. At that time all birth and travel documents were printed in English, Arabic and Hebrew, like is the case in Israel today. But, even then, it was not really a country or nation. It was a dependent government under control and authority of the British Empire.

And, Theo, there was a reason why it became Arab lands. Arabs took it from the Jews during the Islamic Conquests of the Middle East. The Jews just want it all back. (In some cases, Jews converted to Islam and Christianity, but that is another discussion).

Israel does invite Arabs to continue to live there if they will do so in peace. And, Israel has a compensation program for those who feel they lost their land unjustly. All they have to do is to file a legitimate claim to receive the benefits, which includes monetary compensation and/or land.

DC pyle, this is what is wrong with the Middle East and partly the US. People take the bible literally instead of a history book with many authors. If people would put this book aside and approach their differences as intelligent people I would surmise that we would not have all of these problems we have today. Isn't it time to stop this fairy tale mentality and get a grip on reality? I know this would be a better situation for everyone instead of trying to use a fragmented and embellished book to decide on this land grabbing. It might help to eliminate all of these religious wars and our division in this country.

Just like the GOP says they are a three legged party. Conservatism, social conservatives and the religious leg. We all know a three legged animal can adapt but is still crippled thus never able to achieve full mobility.

It isn't just the Bible but the Qur'an that says the very same thing as the Bible about Israel and the land.

See Al Qur'an, Al Isra' [Surah 17:] 1-8, 101-104, for example, which is clear about the land which was given by Allah to the Bani Isra'il (sons of Israel) for them to "dwell securely in the land."

And, it isn't just the Qur'an and the Bible that say it but a number of ancient writings and histories that go beyond and apart from the Bible that all say the same thing--Israel and the land belong together, particularly the West Bank and Jerusalem.

You should read some of these other ancient texts among the Dead Sea Scrolls, the writings of Flavius Josephus, Prism of Sennacherib, etc.

DC pyle, what you are saying is parallel to the American Indian tribes or North America. They were told to take the fact they were removed from their lands and there was no getting it back. Now if we apply what you are postulating to this blog it would be politically correct for the American Indians to take back their ancestral lands. We all know where that stands with all of America or most of America's citizens. Even the papal bull that evolved into the Doctrine of Discovery is used in US SCOTUS and other federal district courts have used this doctrine to prevent tribes from taking back their lands. I would say the same thing holds for Israel. They were defeated and summarily their ancient lands were taken. End of story as the US cannot have it both ways. Of course the US has always done both and history has recorded it all. Read 'em and weep.

The situation in the Middle East is quite different than the situation in the United States. The Ottoman Empire no longer exists. The British Empire took the lands from the Ottoman Empire. The British Empire created the Mandate for Palestine and gave the land to the Jews for a Jewish homeland. Read the British Mandate for Palestine and weep yourself. :-)

Intellect,

"They were defeated and summarily their ancient lands were taken. End of story" - if you are addressing it to Israelis, you will have to address this to Palestinians as well.

By your logic, Israel has the land right now, and that's all that matters.

Anyone doesn't like it - too bad.

Because that is too rational and full of common sense plus doesn't pander to side of the Jewish lobbyist arm and their agenda. A lobbyist group that is in place to blur the truth and put Israel's interests ahead of US interests, not one in the same, and sell out politicians who are all to happy to go along.

Just ask our future Secretary of State...Rice. She's not even in the role yet and already f'n up!

@ It is time: Ding ding ding! We have a winner.

I find it completely amazing that less than 2% of our population somehow has a stranglehold on the entirety of US politics (and the economy?).

Conspiracy theorists don't really think too hard, do they?

RalphH has to be corrected again. Honesty is the best policy, dunce!

In a May 10, 2002 column (“Now Isn’t the Time for Bush League Moves”), nationally-syndicated columnist Georgie Anne Geyer included bogus and inflammatory allegations against Prime Minister Sharon and Israel’s supporters in America.

First, she wrote:

In fact, it [American support for Israel’s actions] led Prime Minister Sharon to tell his Cabinet recently, “I control America.”

CAMERA conducted extensive Nexis and Internet searches, and found that no mainstream news organization reported as true the fabricated quotation.

The hoax originated with an October 3, 2001 press release from the pro-Hamas group, the Islamic Association for Palestine. It said:

An acrimonious argument erupted during the Israeli cabinet weekly session last week between Ariel Sharon and his foreign Minister Shimon Peres during which Sharon reportedly yelled at Peres, saying “don’t worry about American pressure, we control America.”

Notably, in the same press release, the direct quotation “we control America” changed to “we the Jewish people control America.”

CAMERA notified Geyer’s editors that the Sharon “quote” originated on a pro-Hamas website (the Islamic Association for Palestine), and that it had not been corroborated by any reputable media organization. CAMERA also pointed out that IAP’s alleged source, a report on Israel radio, is apparently fictional – Kol Yisrael denied to CAMERA that it had ever broadcast any such report.

When CAMERA requested substantiation from Geyer, the columnist first asserted that she was abroad and would have to check her notes when she got back home in June. After CAMERA contacted editor Bruce Dold of the Chicago Tribune (which ran the Geyer column), he replied:

Ms. Geyer does indeed cite the same sources you note [an Islamic Association for Palestine press release that claimed Kol Yisrael radio reported the Sharon statement] on the Sharon quote. If you have a statement or confirmation from Kol Yisrael, I’d like to see it.

mr. President, you made a mistake.

Boomreason - Here is a list of the dual nationality Jews who worked in the Bush administration. Note how many worked in the Defense Dept and places where they could influence war ,by manipulting intelligence.

American
/ Israeli Dual Citizens in the American Government

Attorney
General - Michael Mukasey

Head
of Homeland Security - Michael Chertoff

Chairman
Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board - Richard Perle

Deputy
Defense Secretary (Former) - Paul Wolfowitz

Under
Secretary of Defense - Douglas Feith

National
Security Council Advisor - Elliott Abrams

Vice
President Dick Cheney’s Chief of Staff (Former) - “Scooter” Libby

White
House Deputy Chief of Staff - Joshua Bolten

Under
Secretary of State for Political Affairs - Marc Grossman

Director
of Policy Planning at the State Department - Richard Haass

U.S.

Trade
Representative (Cabinet-level Position) - Robert Zoellick

Pentagon’s
Defense Policy Board - James Schlesinger

UN
Representative (Former) - John Bolton

Under
Secretary for Arms Control - David Wurmser

Pentagon’s
Defense Policy Board - Eliot Cohen

Senior
Advisor to the President - Steve Goldsmith

Principal
Deputy Assistant Secretary - Christopher Gersten

Assistant
Secretary of State - Lincoln Bloomfield

Deputy
Assistant to the President - Jay Lefkowitz

White
House Political Director - Ken Melman

National
Security Study Group - Edward Luttwak

Pentagon’s
Defense Policy Board - Kenneth Adelman

Defense
Intelligence Agency Analyst (Former) - Lawrence (Larry) Franklin (an Israeli spy, placed there by other Jewish people who had infiltrated our Defense Dept: ( see list )

National
Security Council Advisor - Robert Satloff

President
Export-Import Bank U.S.

-
Mel Semble

Deputy
Assistant Secretary, Administration for Children and Families -

Christopher Gersten

Assistant
Secretary of Housing and Urban Development for Public Affairs

-
Mark Weinberger

White
House Speechwriter - David Frum

White
House Spokesman (Former) - Ari Fleischer

Pentagon’s
Defense Policy Board - Henry Kissinger

Deputy
Secretary of Commerce - Samuel Bodman

Under
Secretary of State for Management - Bonnie Cohen

Director
of Foreign Service Institute - Ruth Davis

RalphH said:

Boomreason - Here is a list of the dual nationality Jews who worked in the Bush administration. Note how many worked in the Defense Dept and places where they could influence war ,by manipulting intelligence.

Making a list of people is one thing, supporting your arguments with real facts is another.

I looked through your list and saw errors, such as incorrect titles and not all are even Jewish. Please, let us know which disreputable site you copy/pasted that from.

Lists such as yours are worthless without facts:

Please provide evidence that they 1) are dual citizens, and 2) have manipulated intelligence. Otherwise, you're simply just blowing out hot conspiracy air.

Don't worry, I won't hold my breath and I don't expect you to reply.

All you have shown us is that you are easily manipulated by bad information.

According to muslim law it is perfectly OK to lie to your "Enemy". They can sign any document and not pay any attention to it because it is "OK" to do so. They have consistently lied about peace in the past and it is over the next day or less. Consistent lies lead to non belief. Which is where Israel is.

How much land did Israel ACQUIRE in wars and how much have they since given back?? They definitely owned Gaza. Had they continued the 6 day war they would have owned Egypt and Syria but it would have been too much land for them to defend.

Who owns the land where Israel will build the houses?? I think some palestinians expect it to be GIVEN to them. But I don't believe they own it. AND if they had it, what would they do with it other than buils a few rocket bunkers to assault Israel with!!!

Israel is also breaking international law by building on the occupied land, but the US turns a blind eye, or at the most severe, just gives Israel a lil slap on the wrist. pffft

You are as stupid as the Palestinians.

because the jews run the US

Most of the hate from Muslim to the US are the result of supporting Israel. I read and reread all the policy we have so far and not one of them make any sense why we spent so much times, effort and money to support Israel in the first place.

The only logical conclusion I can come up with is the "religions" influence and that is the only thing I can understand why we still aid Israel.

BoomReason - a person does not have to be Jewish to be a Zionist or a Neo-Con with an agenda that considers Israel before US interests.

A Zionist is anyone who gives blanket support to Israel no matter what they do - to the end of empowering them so they can squash their neighbors and take more of their land to create a "greater Jewish State". A Zionist does not believe in all residents of Israel having equal rights, and has no respect for the rights of Palestinians who have been on that land far longer than all but a few Israelis. Neo-cons ARE Zionists.

The sad thing is that there are many good citizens of Israel who do not agree with the settlers or the Zionists - folks on the Labor side. They had someone once who tried to make peace, and a ZIONIST murdered this politician - Rabin.

"In 1994, Rabin won the Nobel Peace Prize together with Shimon Peres and Yasser Arafat. He was assassinated by right-wing Israeli radical Yigal Amir, who was opposed to Rabin's signing of the Oslo Accords. Rabin was the first native-born prime minister of Israel, the only prime minister to be assassinated and the second to die in office after Levi Eshkol.

He was voted number one in the Ynet poll of greatest Israelis..."

When are we going to adjust our policy so America supports Israel when it does good, and condemns it when they do evil? I do the same with my own government - why can't we criticize Israel when we disagree with their government?

Too many years of propaganda and threats of being "anti-Semitic". That is nonsense of course -as the arabs in the region are Semitic too.... The politicians here are pertified of AIPAC and the other hard core Israeli lobbyists.

If the Tea Party really wants to take back this government - they should consider taking it back from the Zionists.

I support the state of Israel. I do not support anyone's immoral acts.

Please don't make up definitions for the word "Zionist."

I don't see much targeted criticism here, it's all about getting rid of Israel and replacing it with Palestine. That's all the criticism is -- all that's here is that Israel does not have a right to exist, and blindly siding with those who fire hundreds of rockets into civilian areas.

Too many people think that if someone is defending Israel, that they are ignoring any bad that may occur. No country is perfect, so people need to stop assuming that anybody who defends Israel thinks it is perfect.

They had someone once who tried to make peace, and a ZIONIST murdered this politician - Rabin.

When are we going to adjust our policy so America supports Israel when it does good, and condemns it when they do evil? I do the same with my own government - why can't we criticize Israel when we disagree with their government?

No, a murderer killed Rabin. By putting these two statements back to back you are implying that the murder of a prime minister is somehow indicative of the Israeli government. The US should punish Israel because a crazy person killed the prime minister? Perhaps you didn't mean to imply this, but in that case you should organize your thoughts a little better and use transitions.

The way you have it is that the former statement is supporting evidence for the latter.

Yeah yeah yeah, blah blah blah blah blah, if you are even slightly less than pro-Israel you are a racist, anti-semite. BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH! F&*%ck you people and your brain washing. Just because we don't roll over for the pro-Israel lobby in the US does not make us anti-semetic. It makes us free thinkers and that is counter to everything thing that the US and Israel want. They want obedient morons who question nothing and accept whatever guilt they are fed. You know what, I care nothing for religion or the ways of the fools who continue to cause nothing but sadness, misery and death in the world based on what they think is devinely dicated. F*&^ck all of you. The jewish race is the worst of all the relious pricks because they have devoted so much energy to convincing everyone they are above it all when all they are is a heap of religious fools trying to screw everyone else. You all deserve what you get.

Great vocabulary !

I am going to make this brief and to the point. King Saul was ordered by God to annihilate ALL of the Amalechites (Sp?), men, women, children and all of the animals. Of course he KEPT the best of the men, women children and animals. Guess what? The Palestinians are the direct descendants of the Amalechites. There NEVER WILL be peace between these two nations. That was a HUGE mistake! King Saul disobeyed God's instructions. It is clear they still will have to be destroyed COMPLETELY. ANYONE who does not side with Israel, will suffer at God's hands. Obama had better bone up on the Bible! He needs to be clearly on Israel's side. Israel will, in the endtimes be totally victorious over the Arab nations AND the Russian army involved in backing the Arabs will be totally destroyed! Bone up on your Bible people! This is FACT not supposition. Nuff said!

Hey Stew - You can stuff your bible where the sun doesn't shine. We don't believe in fairy tales.

The only reason Israel has prevailed is because of American assistance and arms. The IDF is great at kiling defenseless women and children in Gaza with missiles tanks and F16s.

America was not assisting Israel until 70s, but Israel already wiped the floor with 7 Arab states 3 time by then.

Israel is great at killing Hamas terrorists with any weapon, even when those terrorists are hiding behind their women and children like cowards they are.

and you think it's ok for Hammas to shoot rockets at Israel?

The present Adminstration has never been a friend to Israel.

Israel has the right to protect it's people and it's State.

There is no news here. People who "mock" Israel, and downgrade it, have no idea what it is to live there, with protecting themselves from the Barbarians surrounding them.

HAMAS, The new Observer Palestinian State, will not keep the "Cease Fire Treaty". They are all Terrorists. Loose Cannons--Rockets will be fired again against Israel, and watch when Israel brings their Army out in full force. HAMAS will be sorry---

Israel is also breaking international law by building on the occupied land

Yeah, that seems to be the consensus these days among members of the UN. Unfortunately, for them, the land belonged to Israel before Jordan took it in 1948. Israel took it back in 1967. The author of UN Security Council Resolution 242 has gone on record several times to state that the UN interpretation of Resolution 242 and idea of forcing Israel back to the pre-1967 Green Line is wrong, and that the Resolution does not require Israel to give back all lands to the pre-1967 Green Line, the same Resolution demanding protected borders.

Additionally, the West Bank was Israel's land for thousands of years before the Arabs took it from them in the first place during the Islamic conquest of Palestine. It was formerly known as Samaria and Judah/Judea. Jerusalem was the Capitol City of the Jews until the Romans took it from them and made it a Roman city. So, there is no wrong in them building settlements to connect Jerusalem with other Jewish cities in the region, contra those who falsely interpret Resolution 242 (against the original intent of the author of the Resolution) to make Israeli settlements illegal.

Here is the worse thing, though. Force Israel to evacuate the West Bank and there will no longer be a protected border zone as Resolution 242 requires. Israel will then have to close off and wall off all the borders between Israel and the West Bank, including completely closing most of the checkpoints. That means no jobs for Palestinians who currently work In Israel, and no way for them as a landlocked nation to conduct trade and shipping except through Jordanian borders and air space. That will not be good for Palestinians and will make things much worse for them than things now are. It will also send their already limited economy into a tailspin. But, that might be what Jordan wants.

Here is the worse thing, though. Force Israel to evacuate the West Bank and there will no longer be a protected border zone as Resolution 242 requires. Israel will then have to close off and wall off all the borders between Israel and the West Bank, including completely closing most of the checkpoints. That means no jobs for Palestinians who currently work In Israel,

Not to mention that this would mean the end to Israel's obligation to supply water and electricity to the area.

@Ralph H

Intelligence is bantered about Washington all of the time, when in reality little is ever seen.

Not to mention that this would mean the end to Israel's obligation to supply water and electricity to the area.

Also possible. They would then have to get it on their own. Some could get it from the Jordan river but that river is drying up with all the current demand on it.

The whole "promised land" premise that this land grab is based on, is acredited to Abraham (Genesis 15:7). This was several hundred years before any of the early bible stories were written down. They were passed down orally from generation to generation.

Did you ever play telephone when you were a kid? Whisper a short message form one person to another through 20 people and see how the last message compares with the first. Multiply that by 20 generations of oral 'history' to measure the accuracy of early bible stories.

Israel only gave up Gaza because it knew the world would see it for what it has now become: An occupier of land that didn't and doesn't belong to them. Israel is showing its true colors....It fights to maintain statehood while refusing to allow Palestine statehood. How stupid does this need to get?

Dorfy, a Zionist supports the state of Israel, since Zion and Israel are the same place. Your daffy definition shows, once again, that Zion has become a dirty word on the left, where once it was an honored term. And, ewent, for the umpteenth time, the Zionists bought their land in Israel, starting in the late 19th century...not because of Bible teaching, but as a response to a wave of anti-semitism caused by the notorious Dreyfus Affair. Israel won further holdings when they were used as a base to attack her THREE TIMES.

Cassandra,

Jews owned 7% of the British mandate in 1947. Partition gave them 53%.

As if anyone knew for sure who owns what in the remnant of collapsed Ottoman Empire.

The only land that was given to Jews was already inhabited by Jews, not everyone was recognizing their ownership of that land, but Arabs were just as quick to challenge each other's ownership in those days.

The whole "promised land" premise that this land grab is based on, is acredited to Abraham (Genesis 15:7). This was several hundred years before any of the early bible stories were written down. They were passed down orally from generation to generation.

The Qur'an says the very same thing as the Bible about the land being given to the Bani Isra'il (sons of Israel). See the 17th Surah, verses 1-8 and verses 101-104, to see the same basic story of the Bible, neatly summarized. Many Palestinians and mush else of the Islamic world just skip over those parts when they read the Qur'an. Apparently, it doesn't apply anymore. :-)

The Qur'an is an addition to the Torah and Bible, not a replacement. They believe in Jesus, for example.

Not as Son of God. The Qur'an is adamant that God has no Son. For most Muslims, Jesus is a prophet mortal prophet and no more than that. And, many in Islam do consider the Qur'an a replacement for the Bible, both Taurat (Torah) and Injil (Evangel or Gospel), and as the fulfillment of them all.

But, the Qur'an still says the same thing about Israel and the land.

The Qur'an does not view him as the son of God, but most everything else is the same. They view his powers as granted by God, so his miracles are recognized.

Not hardly. Some things are like but many others aren't. He is regarded by most Muslims as physically dead and that the resurrection stories of Jesus in the Gospels are contradictory and are myths. It is of interest that a number of stories of the miracles of Jesus have no mention, are denied, or, in the case of some of them, the miracles are only reported in literature Christians of today and the Orthodox of the past considered apocryphal.

Have you ever actually read a footnoted and indexed copy of the Qur'an? I dare say there are more differences than you seem to know. I have several editions of the Qur'an from several sectarian perspectives. In the ones that are footnoted, there are entire sections of text that are dedicated to showing how incorrect Christians are for believing in Jesus as they do, for several reasons.

It should be mentioned that Muslims reject the notion of Jesus as God/Son of God for a strict understanding of Monotheism.

Did you keep count of how many times Jesus was mentioned/referred to and compared that to how many times Mohammed was mentioned? Did you miss the part where they believe that Jesus will return for the Second Coming?

I view the changes as pretty minor, as an outside observer. If you view any change as major, you'll see it differently.

Would you be surprised to learn that the Old Testament, which is supposed to be the Torah changes it? You make it sound terrible that anything was changed, as if Christianity never changed anything about what they were based upon.

I agree. I too don't care much for the muslim countries and their backwards thinking but I'm also sick to death of our blind support for Israel and never making them owe up to their bad deeds either. Like I've said all along both sides have blood on the hands in this. Just happens though that the deck is stacked in Israel's favor. Yes, want to even it out, the US needs to step back and say enough. No more unending support for Israel and the backhanded ways that seek only to benefit them. Take our money and spend it hear. Anyone who wants to support Israel, citizen or politicians can gladly move there. We can be Israel's ally but enough is enough. Time they abide by the original treaties that were put in place and stop this nonsense. Includes making Jerusalem an international heritage site that is controlled by an neutral party like the Swiss.

Thanks DC and our ambassadors for once again making the US look like fools, at least you are consistent.

It is time

I agree with both of you, but having 50% of the senates and house of represenative as jews who mostly support isreal, I don't think u.s policies will change anytime soon. there are organizations that are advocating to divest from isrelai firms and products. that is another way to stop isreal. the list of isreali firms are available online and there are many people that are boycotting these products. I think that is the least we can do. here is the link.http://www.israeldivestmentcampaign.org/

@rameshm2,

Not even close. 56.8% are Protestant, 29.2% Catholic, 7.3% Jewish (39 total Members). The difference is that only 1.7% of the population is Jewish, so they are very disproportionately represented, whereas other religions tend to follow the total demographic quite closely. The politics of Judaism all hinge around two things: a) subordination of American Jewry to Israel. This is usually parsed as protecting a Jewish homeland to prevent future disaporas. b) Leveraging political power via elected offices to benefit Jewish people and Israel above the interests of the country as a whole. This is usually parsed as a benefit of higher education and reflects only that professional men are more likely to be elected to public office.

And very bothersome to me personally is that the Israeli government constantly tries to interfere in American elections and the electoral process. Literally, the United States is the only country in the world that allows this level of foreign meddling in our elections. Meddling that is essentially a conflict of interest since Isreal benefits greatly from American largesse without having to do a single thing in return. Nice work if you can get it.

I'm not saying that any of that is wrong. It is just an observation of how a minority can amplify its political voice, albeit by essentially selling out to a foreign country in return.

Amazing how many people on this thread support terrorists.

Israel or Palestine b/c depending on where you are setting both will fit that title. I myself don't prefer to really support either but rather hold both accountable for their actions and stop the non sense already.

chris. thanks for the statistics and correction... obama winning"althogh I don't agree with a lot of his fp", shows that the isreali influence has diminished, but I think we are a long way before we can make clear decision for the interst of u.s w/o considering isreal. one of the worst thing in u.s history is when in 2010 or so the supreme court passed a law considering corporations as people and allowed them to donate to parties and candidates. since the corporations don't have a country either, there is going to be a lot of money from other countries via agents in u.s invested to buy politicians and I will put isreal on the top of the list

It is true, there are a lot of posters here who support the State Terrorism of Israel. Founded by terrorists, run by terrorists, maintained by acts of State Terrorism. That's Israel. As the world's only remaining Apartheid state, they justly earn the scorn of the rest of the world.

Killian, Jewish Bankers do not run America, outside of your Jew baiting fantasies. And John Carter, if you ever set foot in Jerusalem, you would see Jews and Arabs working side by side...that is, if you could tell them apart.

Cass is right about Jerusalem. The arabs there are sure glad they're not in gaza.

We, the US, needs to pull all aid to all the Middle Eastern countries & the UN. What ever the UN does America pays the highest for. Enough of the BS, what ever happen to minding our own business. & protecting our own country. How about being neutal & let these countries solve their conflicts in their own countries.

I know, I am such an ignorant American, however if you take a good look at who is really financing all the conflicts & usless lost of life from government to military power across the ME you will the US leading the way along with Russia & China.

Boomreason wrote-Amazing how many people on this thread support terrorists.

I concur. You are one of those people along with the likes of Cassandra and Basil. If you support Israel

you support terrorists and parasites.

Israel is a parasite on the American taxpayer.

boom! reason

Amazing how many people on this thread support terrorists.

Huge difference between supporting terrorists and observing that both sides have blood on their hands and both sides are f'ing up! Dont tell me, let me guess. If we don't blindly support Israel we're not patriotic and we hate the United States?

Mitko Pitko

At least the Israelis are BUILDING something while the Palestinians for centuries have lived as nomads without creating anything but depleting the few resources the area has to offer.

The Jews came and created an Orchard Garden out of a desert and now, the takers are trying to get into their house?

And we brought civilization to the savage Indians who were just wasting the land...right?

It's amazing how so few people mind that Hamas is internationally-recognized as a terrorist organization.

They found a common ally in their hatred for Jews. I hear they're recruiting, you should sign up to support Hamas if you feel so strongly.

You really ought to realize that it's a bad sign when you are echoing what the so-called Axis of Evil is saying.

I'd be more sympathetic if the Israelis had "created an Orchard Garden" on their own, and not by using American taxpayer dollars in the form of military equipment and training, and well . . . dollars.

The US gave Israel to the Jews once, in 1948. The solution to the Iraeli/Palestinian conflict is simple . . . give the Jews Texas and call it Israel 2.0.

We could "kill two birds with one stone" and encourage Palestine or Israel to move to Mexico! The drug cartels wouldn't last long...

Both nations have already been move all over the planet. That hasn't solved anything so far.

Israel has as much right to exist as the Palestinians do. We have seen for the last 60 + years the region has turned to hot spots off and on. The big powers and financing Israel to upgrade it's defense capability and Palestinians humanitarian aids. But they are not prepared to withhold the aid and tell these two warring people to behave. Why should the tax payers' money of these donors be squandered in this way?

Some degree of stability in the Middle East is in America's best interests, economically and otherwise. That is why there is foreign aid.

Both Israel and the Palestinians need to learn to get along and share the land. Looks like the UN is not going to permit that, the way things are going.

Cassandra, no need to speak to Killian about his ideas as he seems to have had his comment taken from the board by somebody. I guess he wasn't allowed to have that opinion or something. First he was "collapsed by the community" and now I can't find his comment at all which I personally find offensive. I like to read about everyone's opinion and not just those I agree with. I guess somebody doesn't agree with that idea.

Even if those views consist of bigotry and profanities?

"The US is the israeli prostitute who does and approve of whatever israels gov wants" ok so read the article numbnuts

That was that same UN resolution the palestinians rejected. They could have also had a state 60+ yrs ago.

The "Palestinians" already have a state. It's called Jordan.

And there isn't any city called "East Jerusalem". There is only Jerusalem, which has northern, southern, eastern and western areas.

Ari - The entire region belonged to arabs who farmed the land and lived a modest traditional life there. I am not against the state of Israel, but I only agree with it being within the borders of the land originally given to them.

Jordan is not a Palestinian state - it is a Kingdom and independent nation. I find it ironic that Israelis are so quick to designate who is what in the region - when they are actually the most recent arrivals. Yes - they lived there centuries ago....the American Indians were in charge here a few centuries ago, so we should give the USA back to them too? Europe belonged to the Romans a long time ago - so they should all give it back to them too?

The logic of Zionists in thinking they have a right to steal land is brazen, and is contested by most nations in the world. Israel was granted the land there based on nations sympathizing with bad treatment years ago during WWII.

Who is dishing out the bad treatment now? Zionists need to buy mirrors to see the answer....shame on them..and how sad for decent Israelis whose government is corrupt and hiding behind US military might to do their dirty deeds....

What I thought was really cool was a number of years back when Israel was converting Peruvian Indians to Judaism and putting them in settlements along the hottest and most disputed areas of it's borders. Do you think that would make them "gods chosen" Aztecs or Inca's?

Dorfy,

There were always Jews in the region no matter how many owners the land changed, they all tried to cleanse the land of Jews, but none of them succeeded.

Nor is Israel "dishing out the bad treatment" they are returning it to the sender. They treat Palestinians much better than Palestinians treat them.

Israel used the Romans to do their dirty work 2,000 years ago. They killed Jesus and now they use the USA to kill the Palestinians. Israel spends 46 million on the net to change public opinion of Israel. Israel is the cancer of the Mideast and America. Read "If Americans Only Knew" to find the truth about this horrible country.

Eli100,

Pure propaganda, Goebels would be peroud of you.

Jews were gone from the area of Palistine as of 136AD, the Romans suceeded. The return began 1700 years later. There may have been a few families there, practicing Judaeism in secret during those 1700 years, but it is deception to say they were there the whole time. Before the Romans, Jews had an independant state for only about 360 years total. The rest of the time, they lived there as a province ruled by various empires, not owners of the land

You speak for everyone in the Muslim World? If that is true, which I doubt, then they can all go FCK themselves.

I assume you are planning to give back the land you currently live on, to those whose land it was before they were forced out/conquered? Otherwise, you are just a hypocrite. Or is it OK because you are not Jewish?

Sorry Independent Voter, land theft and Colonialism is out of favor in today's world. Israel will be the next South Africa -- forced to end the occupation.

Independent voter,

Wake the hell up. The world has changed. There is a UN charter now, and that charter specifically says that no land may be taken/annexed by force. Furthermore, two wrongs do not make a right -- or did your own mother not teach you that much? This has nothing to do with the fact that the Israelis happen to be Jewish. If the roles were reversed -- if the Muslims were bullying the Jews and stealing their land -- the moral position would remain the same. Israel is coveting the land of the indigenous population, and it needs to stop.

Actually, I'm part Cherokee and I feel the pain of all those displaced and marginalized people. My grandmother lived through hell as a small girl. It was a miracle she survived. We Cherokees never waged war on the whites yet we were still subject to their genocidal actions. It is sad that Jews who went through so much suffering in WW2 act in such horrible callousness towards Palestinians. Shame on you...

"The Covenant

of the

Islamic Resistance Movement

18 August 1988

Article Six:

The Islamic Resistance Movement is a distinguished Palestinian movement, whose allegiance is to Allah, and whose way of life is Islam. It strives to raise the banner of Allah over every inch of Palestine, for under the wing of Islam followers of all religions can coexist in security and safety where their lives, possessions and rights are concerned. In the absence of Islam, strife will be rife, oppression spreads, evil prevails and schisms and wars will break out.

The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said:

"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (evidently a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Moslem).

Article Eleven:

The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. Neither a single Arab country nor all Arab countries, neither any
king or president, nor all the kings and presidents, neither any organization nor all of them, be they Palestinian or Arab, possess the right to do that. Palestine is an Islamic Waqf land consecrated for Moslem generations until Judgement Day. This being so, who could claim to have the right to represent Moslem generations till Judgement Day?

This is the law governing the land of Palestine in the Islamic Sharia (law) and the same goes for any land the Moslems have conquered by force, because during the times of (Islamic) conquests, the Moslems consecrated these lands to Moslem generations till the Day of Judgement.

Article Thirteen:

Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement. Abusing any part of Palestine is abuse directed against part of religion. Nationalism of the Islamic Resistance Movement is part of its religion. Its members have been fed on that. For the sake of hoisting the banner of Allah over their homeland they fight. "Allah will be prominent, but most people do not know."

Article Fifteen:

"I swear by the holder of Mohammed's soul that I would like to invade and be killed for the sake of Allah, then invade and be killed, and then invade again and be killed." (As related by al-Bukhari and Moslem).

Article Twenty-Two:

For a long time, the enemies have been planning, skillfully and with precision, for the achievement of what they have attained. They took into consideration the causes affecting the current of events. They strived to amass great and substantive material wealth which they devoted to the realisation of their dream. With their money, they took control of the world media, news agencies, the press, publishing houses, broadcasting stations, and others. With their money they stirred revolutions in various parts of the world with the purpose of achieving their interests and reaping the fruit therein. They were behind the French Revolution, the Communist revolution and most of the revolutions we heard and hear about, here and there. With their money they formed secret societies, such as Freemasons, Rotary Clubs, the Lions and others in different parts of the world for the purpose of sabotaging societies and achieving Zionist interests. With their money they were able to control imperialistic countries and instigate them to colonize many countries in order to enable them to exploit their resources and spread corruption there.

You may speak as much as you want about regional and world wars. They were behind World War I, when they were able to destroy the Islamic Caliphate, making financial gains and controlling resources. They obtained the Balfour Declaration, formed the League of Nations through which they could rule the world. They were behind World War II, through which they made huge financial gains by trading in armaments, and paved the way for the establishment of their state. It was they who instigated the replacement of the League of Nations with the United Nations and the Security Council to enable them to rule the world through them. There is no war going on anywhere, without having their finger in it.

Article Twenty-Eight:

Israel, Judaism and Jews challenge Islam and the Moslem people. "May the cowards never sleep."

Article Thirty-One:

The Islamic Resistance Movement is a humanistic movement. It takes care of human rights and is guided by Islamic tolerance when dealing with the followers of other religions. It does not antagonize anyone of them except if it is antagonized by it or stands in its way to hamper its moves and waste its efforts.

Under the wing of Islam, it is possible for the followers of the three religions - Islam, Christianity and Judaism - to coexist in peace and quiet with each other. Peace and quiet would not be possible except under the wing of Islam. Past and present history are the best witness to that."

Look up: "Avalon Project: Hamas Covenant 1988," Yale University School of Law for more information.

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp

This is what Max, Jeff and others like them on this post represent.

Actually, I'm part Cherokee and I feel the pain of all those displaced and marginalized people. My grandmother lived through hell as a small girl.

Unless your grandmother was a small girl in the 1840s, I don't think you have any idea what it's like to be displaced

I assume you are planning to give back the land you currently live on, to those whose land it was before they were forced out/conquered? Otherwise, you are just a hypocrite. Or is it OK because you are not Jewish?

170 years = 70 years?

There are people who were still alive that were booted off of their land thanks to Israel and their expansionism.

@Some guy - you know nothing about what the Cherokees endured in the last 100 years. My grandmother comes from part of the tribe which evaded expulsion from North Carolina and spent decades hiding from authorities. They had no rights because until mid 1960's they were not even considered citizens.

EBCI Max! They are an awesome group of natives too! Almost entirely self reliant up in those mountains. I love their defiant history too...pissed off the Union soldiers and disappeared into lands they could not be found in...actually thrived for many more years too until they were ultimately found. What our government did to those people is a sad and disgraceful story.....to all native americans really...wasn't around back then but I like to speculate that I would have felt the same. At any rate, my brothers and I go every year to camp on the reservation and we love the people. Peaceful and caring people....though the younger generation is battling a huge drug and alcohol problem..it is sad too because some of our older native friends we have made through the years bear witness and have a deep sadness that their culture could quite possibly be lost after their generation passes on.

I truly hope this isnt so too because it is a part of American heritage that me and my family treasure deeply.

EBCI RULES dude! You guys have many friends that aren't even natives outside of those mountains...er...maybe not in Maggie Valley since it is full of all sorts of weird but elsewhere for sure brother!

Last time they gave back land, hamas just moved the rockets closer.

Max, as a part Cherokee, than you must live without paying taxes and getting free money from the casinos?

Jews could just as easily be compared to Native Americans.

See as Jews were driven off their land by Romans, then forced through ghettos and Genocide.

Well, now Jews are back in control of their native land.

Good point Eli, Israeli's used the Romans to do their dirty work like killing Jesus and then the Romans kicked them out. The USA has been used by Israel to do their dirty work and very soon the USA will get rid of Israel. History always repeats itself. See you and Netanyhoo at the Hague. Life is good.

So, you are one of those who misses the pogroms.

Well, don't get your hopes up, Jews shoot back now.

The Romans kicked them out of Jerusalem because the Jews revolted twice to regain their independence. You will find that throughout their history. Some ruler comes in and tries to eject them from their land and/or dominate them; they come back and/or fight to get it back, and succeed. It is an epic story that has repeated itself several times. Today is a repeat of several instances of happenings in history.

Sounds like something self-serving from a book of fairy tales...

Well, even if you do believe in that book, how is blindly giving money and support to a spoiled child blessing them? Expecting the child to learn to get along with others and follow rules is the real blessing. Look what happens if you let a child run amok and bully everyone. Does that child grow up happy and productive, blessed and content? Nope. S/he decides everything should be his or hers and throws tantrums. Blessing doesn't always mean giving the group its own way.

Throwing tantrums? Originally I thought you were trying to describe Israel, but it's clear that you are describing Hamas.

This dose not refer to the now a day country of Israel, but rather to the Prophet Israel!!

@Scott...

Could you please give a scripture verse that you are referring to? The one I remember is Genesis 12: 1-3...

The Lord had said to ABRAM, "Leave your country, your people and your father's household and go to the land I will show you. 2 "I will make you into a great nation and I will bless you; I will make your name great, and you will be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you i will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you."

Abram "believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness". ABRAM (Abraham) is the spiritual father of all who are righteous. Scripture also records Abraham to be the physical father of both Ishmael and Isaac...commonly considered to represent the ancestors of the arabic peoples (Ishmael) and the hebrew peoples (Isaac). As Christianity was born out of Judaism, Abraham is commonly known as the father of all three major religions. So by following God's commmand to bless the descendants of Abraham, you should recognize that to include all the righteous..."spiritual descendants"...from all human religion labels, rather than a place on a map.

Also, the first time the word "Israel" is found in the scriptures, is when God bestows the name upon Jacob (whom had stolen his brother's "human" birthright), after he "wrestles with God" all night, and then "at dawn" he surrenders and asks for God's blessing. God tells him, "you will no longer be called Jacob, but Israel, because you have struggled with God and with man, and have persevered." Jacob (Israel) then immediately goes to meet his brother, whom he had deceived, and repents bringing gifts to his brother, asks forgiveness and makes peace. His brother tells him that he also has been blessed by God. This scripture is a clear reference to the fact that God, who is spirit, is the One who blesses whom He chooses to bless, and our human "birthrights" and decrees of physical lineage, nations, lands, etc. are not necessarily God's way. Spiritual Israel are all those who humble themselves to, and acknowledge God's ultimate authority in blessings and over all power, as they attempt to be in relationship with God and follow His way for us.

The state of Washington was named after a human being...so was the country (land) of Israel named after a human being, a man whom scripture affirms to be one of God's "spiritual descendants".

Issac was the son of promise, whereas Ishmael was not. In regards to Ishmael, G*d said that he would be a wild donkey of a man and that Ismael would be against everyone and everyone against Ishmael. In a prophetic word, Ishmael and his descendants would be a source of contention, and how true that it is.

As for Israel, they will never be removed from that land again and all who stand against them will fail. I base that statement on what some of you have refered to as the "Book of fairytales" the Bible.

scott-1027093

"I will Bless those who Bless Israel", does that ring a bell?

Testimonials of the Great Spaghetti Monster? Sorry, it just doesn't speak to me.

@big Curt...

The following can also be found in scripture.

(God said to Abraham) And as for Ishmael, I have heard you; I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of twelve rulers, ad I will make him into a great nation. Genesis 19; 20-22

Spiritual Israel refers to the faithful...from every nation.

Spiritual Israel refers to the faithful...from every nation.

To clarify;

Spiritual Israel refers to all "spiritual descendents of God", from every nation; those who are faithful to the One True God.

While some of us don't believe in the big book of fairy tales, most of our politicians do. The passage from the bible that was quoted is the number one reason the US supports Israel so strongly. Politicians won't tell you that's the reason, of course. Usually it's "Israel is the only democracy in the middle east."

The U S, specifically,Obama and his band of merry idiots,misfits and incompetents,need to shut up and consider trying to lead, rather than apease muslim countries.

WE, as a nation, have no idea what Israel has to live on a daily basis. .... sort of like Europe telling the north and or the south how to respond during the civil war.

I am borrowing the below from someone who goes by the name of Pokey Obama/Biden 2008. I am not an avid reader of the Bible, and believe that people can find their own spiritual truths without having them dictated to them as to what they should be.

• Throughout the Book of Genesis, God promises Abraham that his descendants will be of great multitude. God says that he will make Abraham a great nation (Genesis 12:2). God says that the descendants of Abraham shall be as numerous as the dust of the Earth, (Genesis 13:16), and shall be in number as the stars of the sky (Genesis 15:5). God says that Abraham will be a father to many nations (Genesis 17:4) and that his descendants will have the land of Canaan (Genesis 17:8). God makes similar promises about Hagar, Ishmael and Isaac. He tells Hagar that her descendants shall be a great multitude (Genesis 16:10). God tells Abraham that Sarah will be a mother of nations (Genesis 17:16). He says to Abraham that Ishmael will beget 12 princes (Genesis 17:20).

  Furthermore, whereas the descendants of Ishmael are of a great multitude, numbering more than 100 million today, the descendants of Isaac have waxed and waned and have been found and lost over the centuries. The descendants of Isaac only had their own kingdom for a brief period in history, and then only long after Isaac had died and many generations had passed. Before then, they were slaves in Egypt. Later, they were conquered by the Babylonians and again taken into slavery. Even when they had their own kings, some of their kings, such as Ahab and Ahaz, worshipped Ba'al and not God (1 Kings 16:32 and 2 Chronicles 28:2).

  Many believe that most of the European Jews of today, especially the Russian Jews, are not descendants of Isaac at all, but are descendants of the Kazars, the so-called "13th Tribe", which was centered in the area of Kiev and which converted to Judaism by order of their rulers in the Ninth Century, AD.

  If God did promise Isaac that his descendants would be in number as the dust of the Earth, as the stars in the sky, and as the sand in the seashore, this was a false promise which has not been fulfilled.

Recent DNA evidence says otherwise on the so-called Khazar Jews. They share the same DNA with Sephardi, Yemeni, and with many Palestinians who are descendants of Jews who converted to Christianity and Islam.

Islam's holiest book also says that the land surrounding the "Remote Mosque" in Jerusalem was given by Allah to the Jews for them to "dwell securely in the land" until the time of the end. The land surrounding Jerusalem includes the West Bank. Palestinians and other Arabs are going against their own holy book.

When someone else is there to pick up the tab and show unwavering support regardless of what you do, what would you expect? It won't be Israel per se but people's blind faith and religion (not getting into a religious debate simple pointing out a negative that has come from it and a root cause here) that will be the reason.

Now if the US finally said enough of this and held Israel accountable for a change I think we would have a lot less to worry about.

Once you have it in your head that God gave you the land there is no room for rational debate.

Firing 1300 rockets in November shows the palestinians arent interested in peace either.

For the sake of argument lets take Palestinians are bad. But are the Israelis any better? Israel is about 60 years old. Can they cite an example they had really wanted to live peacefully with their neighbors? At least there are quite a few situations one cant choose. Parents and neighbors and one has to accept reality. Israel preferred to pick us King Hussain of Jordan, Anwar Sedat of Egypt, King Hassan of Morocco and the like. They have never bothered to stretch their hands to the common Arab people. They thought the rulers would be easier to please. Now the fall out of Arab Spring has shown the Israeli policy makers how unnerved they could be. Its better late than never. Change your old policy and call upon the people irrespective of faith, color and creed to come forward and work together to make the region a zone of peace for mutual benefit. That can only bring peace.

The current nation of Israel is about 64 years old but Israel as a people have been in the land for over 3,200 years. 3,200 years is just the age of the first known artifact that mentions them. They have actually been there longer. They just want to keep it that way with an undivided Jerusalem like it was in the past before Arabs took it from them during the Islamic conquests, and Rome before that, and the Ptolemaic kingdoms before that, and Babylon before that. Each time they took the land back. This current situation is little different.

As long as Uncle Sucker continues to write checks and "grab it's ankles" for Israel nothing is going to change. Until American's son and daughters start to die. If this is what it takes, so be it.

In case you haven't noticed, good Muslims have been killing American's son and daughters, including 3000 in one blow.

Hasn't bent "Uncle Sucker" to your will, has it?

dcpyle,

That's the propaganda version you are telling. Now for some history.

Jews were gone from the area for 1700 years after the Simon Bar Kokhba rebellion, 'til about 1850. By 1900 there were 20,000 Jews in Palistine. In ancient times, The Jews had an independant state for only about 360 years, the rest of the time they were conquered, they were allowed to stay at the pleasure of the various empires who owned the area.

Ed,

By 360 years you probably mean form 2nd century BC to the moment Hebrew Kingdom was destroyed by Romans. Before that Jews were under rule of Greeks and Persians, before that Babylonians.

Before that, however, the region was ruled by Hebrew Kingdom for about 700 years.

No, Ed, yours is the propaganda version.

Jews were ejected from Jerusalem as a result of the Bar Kokhba rebellion, or as it is known, the Second Jewish Revolt. They were not removed from all the rest of the lands by the Romans. That did not begin to occur until the Arab Islamic Conquest of the Middle East, when they either converted to Islam, were slaughtered, or fled the area under the weight of persecution that they often feel under Islamic governments who don't even believe their own Qur'an anymore.

Even their own Qur'an states that Allah gave the land to the sons of Israel to "dwell securely in the land." The Arab nations just don't believe that portion anymore and want to fight Allah's will. See the 17th Surah, first through eighth verses and verses 101-104. Its all there, in summarized agreement with the Torah and rest of the Tana"kh.

And, each time, the Jews came back to take back their land after losing it or being enslaved on it. They are doing the same thing even today. They are taking back their land just like each and every time they have been enslaved and/or removed from their lands. The lands are that important to them.

By making derogatory remarks, your comment already lost it's merits. By the way; I find the headgear worn by Middle Eastern Arabs to be more attractive, besides more practical than 10-gallon hats and huge steer head belt buckles on portly abdomens that no longer have a distinguishing waistline.

They had the same chance in '48. They chose war. War is "all or nothing." They lost. They get nothing.

The vote didn't "give Palestine" anything... And if you really think that the US, Canada, et al, are controlled by "zionist Jews" then you have completely lost touch with reality and need to seek help for your paranoia...

Go suck up to israel somewhere else.

3 gold bars. I think you are the one along with the rest of american policy makers who is in disconnect with the rest of the world due to isreali's influence in u.s. how can you deny the fact that 50% of the senates and the house of represenatives are jewish and they all support isreal and the other 50% are influenced by the isreali's as well. people like mccain, graham and etc. the sooner you and your kind face the fact and come out of denial, the sooner u.s can make peace with the rest of the world.

50% of the House is Jewish..... please state your source because that is a flat out lie... as well as the equally ridiculous statement about 50% of the Senate... how ignorant are you

There is but one good solution. Stop all aid to Israe! Now!

It is becoming apparent that American grass root support for Israel is waning fast. It is like a snowball running down hill faster and faster and getting bigger and bigger.

Soon our politicians will have to listen, but first we must vote them out of our government.

Don't expect rameshm2 to reply. They tend to never come back once prompted for sources.

@RalphH if you had to guess, what percent of our budget would you say goes to supporting Israel?

The vote didnt make them a State. It accepted them as if they were a State.

Boomreason - Israel has received over 100 billion dollars over the years. The US borrows the money we give Israel and we pay the interest on that money. The US currently has a huge budget crisis and cannot afford to give the Israeli parasites one omore dime. Screw Israel and vote out the Jews in our government.

The Iraq war, planned and sold by Zionists, led by Paul Wolfowitz will cost America over 3.5 trillion dollars. A cost of doing business with Zionists. Try to deny that one Boom.

Then how about US also stops giving aid to Egypt, Pakistan and Palestinians?

That would help with the crisis even more.

Wow, only 115 billion dollars over the course of 64 years? That's pretty cheap.

You also didn't answer the question, most likely because you knew it would not look good for what you wanted to say.

So, I'll answer it for you.

Israel receives $3 billion per year. The US total buget expenditures are $3.803 trillion. Now, there are 1,000 billions in a trillion.

So, what percent of the US budget does Israel receive? 0.08% (0.0008). Basic math.

For comparison's sake, lets take a very targeted tax cut -- the portion of the Bush's tax cuts that affects people making over $250,000 per year. According to the CBO, they would cost more the $1 trillion over the next decade while providing negligible benefits to the economy.

You were complaining about 115 billion spent over 64 years, but this tax cut costs about that each year.

Putting numbers in context makes your arguments silly.

The US currently has a huge budget crisis and cannot afford to give the Israeli parasites one omore dime.

Compared to our budget, it's not even equivalent to a dime. Of course, you don't even try to hide that you're not unbiased -- you're very clear and upfront that you dislike Jews, and that you care not for facts nor accuracy in your quest to blame everything on them.

The Iraq war, planned and sold by Zionists, led by Paul Wolfowitz will cost America over 3.5 trillion dollars. A cost of doing business with Zionists. Try to deny that one Boom.

The President is the head of the military, hence the title "Commander in Chief." To blame it on Jews is laughable.

In regards to this conflict, the US has a position where we do not negotiate with terrorists. Why should the Israelis negotiate with the terrorists, Hamas?

Eli100 said:

Then how about US also stops giving aid to Egypt, Pakistan and Palestinians?

That would help with the crisis even more.

Total US foreign aid accounts for less than 1% of the budget. You can't fix the problems by pretending 1% change will cure our ills. Larger items like social security, medicaid, and medicare need to be reformed if we actually care about the debt.

Boom,

Relax, I am on your side. I merely wanted to point out that Ralph and other pro-Palestinians who appear so heartbroken about 3bi per year going to Israel are completely at peace with the aid going to Arab states and Pakistan. Between all Muslim states, the aid is about 20bi per year, but no complaints about that form the can't-afford-3bi-per-year crowd.

By the way, don't get your hope up about getting Ralph to see reason. You haven't heard the craziest of his theories yet, believe me.

You haven't heard the craziest of his theories yet, believe me.

These people have such nonsensical theories that I visualize them as having foam coming from their mouths while they write.

I say screw our American government Israel, because our POS Obama has lied and stabbed you in the back making sure that we the U.S. has absolutely no right in telling or asking you to do certain things such as don't build or don't attack those who are firing rockets at your towns/cities!

For all of you who thinks Israel is the bully or the terrorist, you are sadly mistaking or just plain haters! Look at who fired the first rockets, look at who commits cowardly suicide bombings, and just look at who covers their faces because they are cowards? Then look at who warns thier terrorists enemies that if they fire rocket and commits suicide bombings that they will defend themselves and without covering their faces and will be in easy to identify military uniforms? And if you think the U.S. has any right to ask or tell Israel what to do, I ask that you look at how that treasonous American killing POS Obama has treated our use to be very great friend and Ally such as; calling them liars, not wanting to talk to Israel Prime Minister about defending Israel but rather play golf, listening to Hamas and send Hamas 400 million U.S. dollars while wanting to cut aid to Israel and the list grows.

Israel I have said this before watch your own back, because that POS Obama will stab your back like a coward and liar and deceive your country l;ike he has to America!

Israeli Jews are the biggest cowards in the universe. They only attack when they have total military superiority (which is supplied by the USA) and the opponent is completely unable to defend themselves. You will never see Israeli troops do house to house or building to building searches for the enemy, as American troops do. They just blow up the buildings and the inhabitants within, using planes, missiles and tanks, with no regard to what civilians might be there.

I hope Obama stops aid to Israel in order to halt the new illegal settlements. America should abandon any obligations to Israel and give our dual citizens a choice, choose Israel or the US, you cannot serve 2 masters. Israel is not a US state and should not be supported as such. They do not pay taxes or earn 1 dime of American support.

American aid to Israel amounts to over $500.00 for each man woman and child in Israel. In return, they gave us the war in Iraq, which will cost several trillion dollars.

So, Egypt, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon and Jordan are all completely military inferior and "completely unable to defend themselves", right?

Israel earns American support by providing intelligence, training and sharing their tech discoveries, and when it comes to killing the enemy without hitting civilians, they have much better track-record than USA.

Dual citizenship is allowed in USA, because that's a part of being a democracy, and if you don't like that, no one gives a dam.

RalphH said:

Israeli Jews are the biggest cowards in the universe. They only attack when they have total military superiority (which is supplied by the USA) and the opponent is completely unable to defend themselves

You mean like when they were attacked by Egypt and Syria while observing Yom Kippur, and managed to defeat the enemy anyway? Or like any other time they were attacked and soundly defeated the enemy? Or what about the 6 day war when they defeated several major enemies at once?

If anything, you are describing those who attack Israel, as they like to attack not one-on-one, but several at once against Israel and still Israel prevailing.

Nothing you say has any basis in reality. Time to get your head checked by a doctor.

It's quite telling that you quickly abandon your lies and move on to new ones. Your attempts are quite pitiful. A failed human like you should be mourned.

Boom Boom, The Japanese attack Pearl Harbor. We beat the Japanese, and we occupied Japan. But, we did not make Tokyo our capitol or build settlements in Japan. Ditto for Germany.

In addition, we champion democracy. 198 to 2.. Are the 198 wrong, and the 2 right.

One last thing. The worst oppressors on earth are people that have/were oppressed, and then turn around and oppress others. You can fill in the names.

The 1967 war was pushed by Israel. It was a war of aggression. Egypt was told that Israel was lining up its troops preparing for an invasion into Egypt. And Egypt did what any country would do in response to such news -- they lined up their own troops in preparation for the invasion. Israel then used that DEFENSIVE move by Egypt to justify a preemptive attack into Egypt. Israel attacked Egypt on Egypt's side of the border. Egypt had every moral and legal right to defend itself.

Epinnoia: Never let truth get in the way of racist and bigotted reasoning.

Steven B had previously posted this.

The link to the website is:

http://www.sixdaywar.co.uk/crucial_quotes.htm

March 8th 1965

"We shall not enter Palestine with its soil covered in sand, we shall enter it with its soil
saturated in blood" - President of Egypt, Gamal Abdel Nasser [20]

Feb 22nd 1967

"it is the duty of all of us now to move from defensive positions to offensive positions and enter the battle to liberate the usurped land…Everyone must face the test and enter
the battle to the end." - President Attassi of Syria[1]

April 8th 1967

"(this battle will be)…followed by more severe battles until Palestine is liberated and the
Zionist presence ended." - Syria's information minister Mahmoud Zubi
[1]

May 12th 1967

"In view of the fourteen incidents of sabotage and infiltration perpetrated in the past
month alone, Israel may have no other choice but to adopt suitable countermeasures against the focal points of sabotage. Israel will continue to take action to prevent any and all attempts to perpetrate sabotage within her territory. There will be no immunity for any state which aids or abets such acts." - PM Levi Eshkol speech [10]

May 13th 1967

Egypt must expect "an Israeli invasion of Syria immediately after Independence Day, with the aim of overthrowing the Damascus regime" [10]
Soviet misinformation delivered to Anwar Sadat in Moscow.

May 15th 1967

"Israel wants to make it clear to the government of Egypt that it has no aggressive intentions whatsoever against any Arab state at all" - Israel's Prime
Minister Levi Eshkol [4]

May 16th 1967

'...I gave my instructions to all UAR forces to be ready for action against Israel the moment
it might carry out any aggressive action against any Arab country. Due to these
instructions our troops are already concentrated in Sinai on our eastern border. For the sake of the complete security of all UN troops…I request that you issue your orders to withdraw all troops immediately. [5]
- written request from Nasser to Commander UNEF (Gaza)

"The existence of Israel has continued too long. We welcome the Israeli aggression. We welcome the battle we have long awaited. The peak hour has come. The battle has come in
which we shall destroy Israel." - Cairo Radio

May 17th 1967

"All Egypt is now prepared to plunge into total war which will put an end to Israel" -
Cairo Radio

"We had hoped yesterday that tension in the Israel-Syria-UAR triangle was dropping after an ostentatious Egyptian show of putting its forces around Cairo on alert. Last night, however, we and the Israelis learned that the Egyptians have moved forces into the Sinai. Now they have moved forces in front of the UN Emergency Force on the Israel-UAR border and all but ordered it to withdraw."
- Memorandum From the President's Special Assistant (Rostow) to President
Johnson [30 Doc 7]

May 18th 1967

"The Zionist barrack in Palestine is about to collapse and be destroyed. Every one of the
hundred million Arabs has been living for the past nineteen years on one hope –
to live to see the day Israel is liquidated…There is no life, no peace nor hope
for the gangs of Zionism to remain in the occupied land."

"As of today, there no longer exists an international emergency force to protect Israel….The sole method we shall apply against Israel is a total war which will result in the
extermination of Zionist existence". - Cairo Radio's Voice
of the Arabs broadcast

"Egypt has decided to terminate the presence of the United Nations Emergency Force from the
territory of the United Arab Republic and Gaza Strip. Therefore I request that
the necessary steps be taken for the withdrawal of the Force as soon as
possible." - Egyptian ambassador Kony informs U Thant -
U.N. A/6730/Add.3 26th June 1967

"Irrespective of the reasons for the actions you have taken, in all frankness, may I advise you
that I have serious misgivings about it for…I believe that this Force has been
an important factor in maintaining the relative quiet in the area of its
deployment during the past ten years and that its withdrawal may have grave
implications for peace." - UN Secretary General U Thant
cables Cairo advising that UNEF would be withdrawn.

"The presence of the Emergency Forces in the Sinai desert had kept tensions down. We don't have to look further for a United Nations success. Yet the Government of the United
Arab Republic has made a formal request for the withdrawal of UNEF from its
territory as soon as possible.

It really makes a mockery of the peacekeeping work of the United Nations if, as soon as the tension rises, the United Nations force it told to leave. Indeed the collapse of UNEF
might well have repercussions on other United Nations peacekeeping forces, and
the credibility of the United Nations in this field are thrown into question." -
George Brown (British Foreign Secretary), speaking at United Nations
Association annual dinner in London [21]]

…"UNEF was established with the full concurrence of the United Nations…any decision to
withdraw the force should be taken in the United Nations after full consultation with all the countries involved – it should not be taken as the result of some unilateral decision." - George Brown (British Foreign Secretary), speaking at United Nations Association annual
dinner in London [21]

"You are correct, Mr. President, in stating that we are having our patience tried to the
limits. There have been 15 attempts at murder and sabotage in the past six
weeks. We have not reacted. This in itself proves that there is no lack of
temperance and responsibility on our part. On the other hand, the problem is
not solved indefinitely by inaction. We cannot always rely on the stroke of
fortune which has so far prevented the terrorist acts from taking the toll of
life and injury intended by the perpetrators. - extract
from telegram from Eshkol to Pres. LB Johnson.

http://www.sixdaywar.co.uk/crucial_quotes.htm

perfect moniker

words of Romney and other Republicans: It's all President Obama's fault. Conservatism has trashed America since President Reagan who said that government (of the people) is the problem and gave us government of the corporations.

Words of the Republican Party

...Bush who?

US citizens will ultimately demand this POS powerless and useless organization be removed from our country and our funding withdrawn...count on it.

warren levine and troy. how do we really know it was alqaeda. there was never been an investigation and there was never a conclusion of who did it. after all it made u.s to attack saddam who was unwilling to sell cheap oil to isreal:but now isreali's have build 2 pipelines from iraq to haifa. the funny thing is saddam didn't have anything to do with 9/11 and it was the isreali's who with false documents pushed the u.s into iraq war. so isreali's have gained the most, therefore they should be a suspect.

Troy, get a clue, then come back. We spearheaded the founding of the UN. We owe over a billion dollars in past dues.

Rick,

You are right. We are responsible for creating this POS powerless and useless organization. Thanks for the unnecessary history lesson bud....lol.

I am saying we should now be responsible for demanding this POS powerless and useless organization be removed from our nation.

rameshm2,

You're comments make for a much better debate...and I certainly believe as you do that the war with Iraq was ment to achieve a different agenda than we were told. As for responsibility...I'm going with total responibility to the GW Bush era CIA and that particular administration in general. I am one of the many that believe Afganistan was the right thing to do and Iraq was not.

May be a kooky position on my part but there you go.

Warren,

How can we redirect their hatred toward the UN?...lovin' your thoughts for sure!

Troy, I agree with you on Iraq-Afghanistan. "after all, he's the guy who tried to kill my dad" - GW Bush, answering a reporter as to why we would go after Saddam Hussein.

I clearly do not agree that the UN is useless.

The real reason the UN is in Manhattan is because foreign diplomats wives love to shop on 5th Avenue. And because hosting it in the US gives us an outsized influence over its agenda.

No, Einstein, it's because the best whores are on the east side of Manhattan, and the "diplomats" from the Islamic fundamentalist world are their best customers.

See? It's what puts the FUN in fundamentalist.

And of course, they get unlimited supplies of cheap booze without paying American taxes, they get their diplo bags into and out of the United States under full diplomatic immunity, all of which means the U.N. is the biggest vagina in the entire world, considering all the pricks that go in there.

The whole arab region uses palestinians this way. Why do you think none of them have ever given the refugees citizenship. They're more useful as the designated victim group to use against Israel.