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Subscribe to RSSOn the doorstep of Egypt's presidential palace, angry protesters accuse Mohamed Morsi of stealing power and imposing a constitution they consider illegal. NBC's Richard Engel reports.
Updated at 4:25 p.m. ET -- Opposition protesters fought presidential supporters outside the Egyptian presidential palace on Wednesday, while inside the building the president's deputy proposed a way to end a crisis over a draft constitution that has split the most populous Arab nation.
Stones and petrol bombs flew between opposition protesters and supporters of President Mohammed Morsi, and the Interior Ministry said 32 people had been arrested and three police vehicles destroyed.
The Egyptian ministry of health told NBC News 60 people have been wounded in the clashes, but said there have been no fatalities.
The president's backers tore down tents erected by opponents of Morsi who began a sit-in protest on Tuesday, Reuters reported.
The demonstrators are angry over the president's expanded powers and his decision to rush through a new constitution they say does not represent the whole nation.
Tweets from activists on the scene said some anti-Morsi protesters were overwhelmed by the president's backers, who beat some of the protesters with clubs. Rocks were thrown, and some protesters were left bleeding.
Riot police were deployed between the two sides to try to stop confrontations that flared after dark despite an attempt by Vice President Mahmoud Mekky to ease the crisis.
Mekky said amendments to disputed articles in the draft constitution could be agreed on with the opposition. A written agreement could then be submitted to the next parliament, to be elected after a referendum on the constitution on Dec. 15.
"There must be consensus," he told a news conference, saying opposition demands had to be respected to reach a solution.
Violence breaks out in Cairo, Egypt, outside Mohammed Morsi's presidential palace. NBC's Jim Maceda has more on the clashes and a possible constitutional compromise by the Egyptian government.
Ready for dialogue
In a news conference Wednesday, opposition coordinator Mohamed ElBaradei said: "We hold President Morsi and his government completely responsible for the violence happening in Egypt today."
"We are ready for dialogue if the constitutional decree is canceled ... and the referendum on this constitution is postponed," he said of the document written by an Islamist-led assembly that the opposition says ignores its concerns.
Opposition leaders have previously urged Morsi to retract the Nov. 22 decree, defer the referendum and agree to revise the constitution, but have not echoed calls from street protesters for his overthrow and the "downfall of the regime."
Morsi has said his decree was needed to prevent courts still full of judges appointed by ousted leader Hosni Mubarak from derailing a constitution vital for Egypt's political transition.
Protests spread to other cities, and offices of the Muslim Brotherhood's political party in Ismailia and Suez were torched.
Morsi flees Egypt's presidential palace as 'last warning' protesters battle cops
Khaled Elfiqi / EPA
Egyptian supporters of the Muslim Brotherhood attack an Egyptian opposition protester in front of the presidential palace one day after a protest against President Mohammed Morsi, in Cairo, Egypt, on Dec. 5.
On Wednesday, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said Egypt's unrest showed the urgent need for dialogue between Morsi's government and opposition figures.
Supporters of Islamist president push Egypt to tipping point
Speaking at NATO, Clinton said the U.S. wanted to see a constitution emerge that protects the rights of all Egyptians — men and women, and Christian and Muslim.
But asked to specifically address any shortcoming in the Islamist-supported draft constitution, Clinton didn't name any.
Rights groups as well as secular opponents of Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood have criticized the draft. They say it rolls back the rights of women, religious minorities and others.
Liberals, Christians left out as Islamists back Egypt's draft constitution
Clinton said Wednesday the dialogue needed to be two-way — not the government imposing its view.
She also called for Egypt's courts to be allowed to function.
On Tuesday, Egyptian police battled thousands of protesters outside the palace, prompting Morsi to leave the building, presidency sources said.
The Associated Press reported that some people broke through barbed wire around the building and hurled chairs and rocks at retreating police on Tuesday night.
The crowds had gathered in what organizers had dubbed "last warning" protests against Morsi, who infuriated opponents with a November 22 decree that expanded his powers. "The people want the downfall of the regime," the demonstrators chanted.
NBC's Jim Maceda and Charlene Gubash, Reuters and The Associated Press contributed to this report.
Hassan Ammar / AP
Egyptian President Mohammed Morsi's supporters, background, clash with opponents, foreground, outside the presidential palace, in Cairo, Egypt, on Dec. 5.
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- ANALYSIS: Egyptians warn Morsi is no friend of US
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Why throw stones? Most of those peopole have AK47's in their houses. Use them and see who wins then!
This article should be headlined "The Brown Shirts Strike Back." Apparently once the news came out of protestors getting too close for comfort to where Fuhrer Morsy lives, a large quick reaction mob of street thugs was called up to head over and bash in some skulls.
Now, as in the beginning back in Tahrir Square, it's coming down to a street contest over who has the bigger mobs and the more ruthless, violent followers. I think we all can pretty accurately guess who is going to come out on top in this fight.
Hey Adam!!!
I was thinking along your same line of thinking. The new and improved Egypt it ain't.
Mooslim brotherhood, thank you Obama, little by little we are getting to know you.
love him or hate him, you don't know the real Obama, I hope that I am wrong.
Peace!
why can't they just...walk like an Egyptian...oh a oh...
THIS is what you do, PJ...try to run an obvious scam on desperate people.
It's obvious that the Muslim Brotherhood has been studying the "My way or the highway" politics perfected by our own Republican party.......... Fasists all around the world have been watching the "Greedy Obstructionist Party" then putting the GOP's "how to destroy a democracy" tactics to work.
Blame Obama for Egyptian protests? I hear Obama is to blame for this heat wave along the East Coast too!
"Why throw stones? Most of those peopole have AK47's..."
Because they love each other.
Yes, here is proof of another "fine" country nobody wants or needs, and, which does not make any impact on the rest of the world. Useless Muslim hate towards the rest of the world.
Well, we don't like you either. Stop burning my flag you morons.
"My way or the highway"
sorry Al from the cesspool of Las Vegas , you just described Barry ..........and Pelosi and Reid and the rest of the lefty bafoonery
your little homey Barry just said today that not raising taxes on the "rich" is not an option , ergo "his way or the highway" , or in reality that should be "his way to the ghetto"
" I hear Obama is to blame for this heat wave along the East Coast too!"
haha , he is about as much to blame as "global warming"
You do know Morsy was elected by Egyptians right? They were absolutely in love with him and his act, what do you think Obama should have done? Should he have intervened and told Egypt that the United States was going to decide who gets to be their president? How do you think Americans would react if Egypt said they were going to decide who gets to be our President no matter how we voted? We would be lining up with guns in hand to go pay Egypt a visit, and they would do the same if anyone would have tried to stop Morsy from being elected.
Going to be a civil war there no doubt!
I wonder which side the USA will back up? Non-Muslim brotherhood I hope!
Adam, that was actually the nightmare I was worried about. I warned that the events in Egypt are similar to pre WW II Germany. What makes it even more alarming is that the axis of evil goes all the way from Turkey to Tunisia. What is alarming about this disaster is that it was promoted by the West led by the Obama's administration. It looks as if we are raising a brood of vipers in our bedroom.
Hi C.C. (and Chefaz too), yes I share your view that this ascent to power by the Muslim Brotherhood is reminiscent of the Nazi movement prior to WWII. One mutual friend of ours does not agree (Los) but it's hard to ignore all the similarities. Hopefully it has a happier ending and doesn't end in WWIII down the road, but the storm clouds are building. I don't know what comes next but in all likehood it is not going to be good. I wish I could say otherwise....
And just when we thought it was all over and stopped paying attention. I knew this would happen as soon as the Muslim Brotherhood "won" the election. It was sad, because the choices were either them or Mubarak's remnants which could not and should not happen either. In order to have a truly fair government, religion should not be involved because people not of that government religion will be left out. The only way to do it right is to not do it at all, and then allow freedom of religion like the USA and most civilized countries do. I don't think Egypt had a viable choice, which they desperately needed in their first "election" to try to move past this state of things like dictatorships, religion run governments, and uhhh... woman problems.
And for those of you blaming Obama for this, the UN supported this because the people were being slaughtered by their own government. The UN simply wanted to stop that, which is hypocritical if you ask me because they didn't really do that in Syria and such. Anyways, the aftermath "election" was not interfered with by USA or any of the UN. After the rebels one, we (the UN including the USA) let them figure out who the candidates were, vote on them in an "election" of sorts, and create their own government all by themselves. Bad idea. We should have guided them along the way. Not doing so after getting involved was where we and the UN went wrong. Egypt simply isn't ready to do this on their own.
In time, this Muslim Brotherhood government will likely fall. And when and if that happens, we need to be there to make sure a proper election and government foundation is set up. We (the USA) should not tell them what to do, but rather help oversee the process to make sure more power grabs do not happen and de-legitimize what is supposed to be their new Democracy.
Btw, were some of those protesters supposedly standing up against their oppressors for freedom and rights for woman some of the same people who were sexually assaulting woman? Because, it seems to me like the protest mobs is where a lot of this goes down. What a bunch of miserable animals they are. I still wonder if some of those animals in the mobs protesting for freedom can actually handle Democracy.
@ Adam, luckily for us Egypt doesn't have anywhere near the power of WWII Germany. Worst case scenario, we'll have to go in there (Egypt) and straighten them out. Let's hope it doesn't come to that. We don't need to fight yet another war.
@God of Fate, Obama has MB advisers in the White House who sold him on the idea that MB is the voice of the Egyptian majority. Many educated Egyptians have sounded the alarm about the coordination between the US, Qatar and MB, but the Obama administration is continuing with its disastrous policy. Today the MB goons are attacking the demonstrators in Egypt and fighting is going on in many Egyptian cities, if Obama really care about the well beings of all Egyptians he should clearly oppose the MB attempt at imposing their theocratic rule and turning Egypt into a Sunni Iran. Unfortunately he may just issue some lame proclamation and betray the secular Egyptians as he betrayed the secular Iranians few years ago.
@ Coptic Christian- No. That is not entirely accurate. The USA government is trying to work with the MB because they were "elected" into power. Not that Egypt had much of a choice, as it was either that or Mubarak's remnants who just anyone would have beaten at that point. Anyways, the US decided to support the Muslim Brotherhood only in the respect of trying to establish stability in the region through supporting stability in Egypt. We (the USA) did the same thing with Mubarak, only the difference is we put Mubarak in power. In this case, it was the UN (including the USA) who helped support the revolution which lead to the election, but we did not elect the MB into power nor choose Egypt's candidates for them. So we simply supported the peoples "choice" which was also really the lesser evil of two undesirable choices. As I said in my last comment, we actually should have tried to do more to help them establish a Democratic government to avoid such power grabs such as the one Morsi and his MB made by doing things such as dismissing the courts and declaring himself temporary Pharaoh. But that is why the USA is working with (or has been trying to) the MB. USA foreign policy like that goes back way before Obama. As I said in another comment,
"So does this mean Egypt is no longer a player in Israeli/Palestine peace talks? They have timing, I'll give them that. It looks like the media already forgot about that little disagreement. Typical."
Yeah, that incident was one of the reasons we went through such efforts to try to reach out to Egypt's government, as well as in general trying to stabilize the region a bit more. It would have been the same whether or not the MB was in charge.
@God of Fate, Here are some facts to show that our administration is siding with the MB.
We have been talking to the MB for some years now, and last year when American representatives visited Egypt they ignored the secular parties and met only with the MB. Many in Egypt believed that we had a deal with the MB that they will be given full support as long as they keep the peace treaty with Israel.
Qatar, a country that hosts the American base in the Middle East is a strong supporter of MB.
MB were welcome to Washington, even a Salafist, a member of the Egyptian Parliament and who was on the terrorist watch list, came with this group and no one knew who allowed this to happen. Other MB members who were not allowed to visit the States during Bush presidency were allowed to enter under Obama's.
Obama tried to give half a Billion Dollar to Egypt ignoring all the disturbing signs of a radical Islamic government and so far he was stopped by the Republican Congress.
Today, a new uprising by moderate Egyptians of every religion and faith are trying to challenge this new dictatorship, and time will show when and if this misguided administration will come to their aid as they rushed to side with the MB.
Hey guys, I saw Adam mentioned me, so I hope you’re all well, anyway I’ll be adding my thoughts to this later as I’m in desperate need for some sleep.
Hi Losmuertos, remember we talked once about the MB, I was worried about their intentions. Today in Egypt they have shown their dark side, they are acting in the Nazi tradition, attacking those protesting Morsi's grab for power and intimidating the opposition by brute force.
Here's an example of the thugs ruling Egypt today, a Christian Engineer going home from work was stopped by the MB thugs, and probably when they found that he is christian they claimed that he is a thug and took his shirt and beat him. Here's a web page about him, and a video showing what was done to him.
http://www.facebook.com/menasupporters
http://www.coptreal.com/wShowSubject.aspx?SID=69198
I was wondering , did deoderant ever make it to Egypt? ...interesting
Down with the Muslim Brotherthood! Like all Islamic terrorists they will put in a brutal sharia,jihad regime that will enslave their own people.The ones who will suffer the most will be Christians,women,secular Muslims,homosexuals and any independent thinker.The Bro belong back in prison.They should be watched very closely in the U.S and other countries and perhaps should be outlawed..They are basically a terrorist group.although sometimes they try to hide their devil´s tail.Super bad news for Egypt,the region and the whole world!
There is no peace where there is Islam.
they're get'n a little crowded over there...thus the need for population control...war has always been a real population control tool...
The M.B. could do with a little less power and influence much like many religious groups. Although it was far from peaceful at least no one was killed that I know of, thankfully. Hopefully Morsi and the M.B. may listen to reason on the 15 or so articles that are in question. Further clashes are not in the best interest of the people of Egypt. How are you creating stability again?
I expect that if some agreements are reached on the articles in question and the vote passes that Morsi sticks to his promise of returning the extra power that he gave himself.
plain-bob..I agree. That's why China went the way with only one child per couple..stops population growth and wars!
Heard though China is easing up on the rules..if they can afford a second child its permitted..sounds like what the 1%ers get here!
Having read about the mob rape attacks I'm not sure I have much sympathy for any men participating in these violent clashes....keeps them too busy to attack women which is a good thing
It is the nature of these monotheistic patriarchal religions to see everything as belonging to their male god, and so by association, also belonging to the participants in the religion. They want it all. Egypt is well on its way to becoming a theocratic Islamic police state. Everyone there wanting to avoid that fate should leave as soon as they can; while they can.
Just plain ignorant men who still think the world revolves around their narrow minded Muslim laws.
The down fall of them and all religion is going to be that more and more people are believing that there is no God because there is no God.
Both sexes are equal in every way, and the females of this planet are as entitled to everything that men are.
The only thing still holding them back is RELIGION, ignorance and all the books of lies, of EVERY religion that were written by no one but powerful old men who figured out a way to control the uneducated.
There is no God so they are fighting over some non-existent entity and his so called "Godly laws".
I know I can't be the only one who is just so sick of these people and their ignorant ways.
Yeah, the problem is modern military technology in the hands of herds living by standards of the Dark Ages. No such thing as freedom, liberty and the pursuit of happiness in their constitutions.
Ahh yes...
The bloody business of the day... another step down into the hell of Islamic bliss!
Let the bullets fly!
So Morsi runs out the back door. LOL Now that is rich. It may be that the so called 51 percent that put him in office is no longer 51 percent. It may be that it never was 51 percent. All this fuss so a bunch of hairy Muslim men can harass abuse and even kill anyone they don't like of feel is inferior. Inferior like women Christians Jews Buddhists Atheists and other Muslims who are not a part of their group. As the stomach turns should be the headline of this news event.
So does this mean Egypt is no longer a player in Israeli/Palestine peace talks? They have timing, I'll give them that. It looks like the media already forgot about that little disagreement. Typical.
The Islamists will win. Secularism is no match for religious zeal. Secularists believe that life is finite, and that death is the end. They hold back and try to shield themselves and their loved ones from death. They love life and hold on to it like it's precious.
Religious zealots believe that this life is fleeting and the life to come is eternal. They are eager to die for their cause as it makes them martyrs. They are consumed with carrying out the commandments of their "god" in hopes of being rewarded in the afterlife. The secularists will be beaten into submission through violence and fear of death.
America, be very careful of the kind of people you allow into your midst. You may not be able to stand against the mindless fanaticism they bring with them.
I just helped restore a run-down house for a low-income family through a church organization. Awful, I know. I apologize if my "religious zeal" threatens you. I really shouldn't let my "mindless fanaticism" get in the way of living a completely selfish and self-absorbed life.
More melodramatic scare tactics from a whiny majority who fear their views are being under-represented.
All I see is a bunch of morons who just want more bloodshed
LOSERS
Lee interesting perspective and you may well be correct. However, I might remind you that WW2 was fought not over religion but over the right to be free of another fanatical regime. Yes the Nazi uprising was not exclusively rooted in religion as in the way that Muslim zealots are but they were just as fanatical in their belief of superiority over other groups and willing to execute the most brutal of violence against others. It took the entire world coming down on them to stop them and stop them we did.
HopeyChangeyFeely -
Okay, and let's see, I guess us atheists never do any communal work. After all, this is the only world we will experience, so let's just trash it and never think about our children and the world they will inherit. Good works are not exclusive to religion. Get over it.
Also, we atheists/secularists are a whiny majority in the US? Since when? 80% of the people in the US claim religious background. More people here believe in the existence of angels than accept the Theory of Evolution. In Texas, it's still in our state constitution that atheists cannot hold public office, even though that's completely against the US Constitution: there shall be no religious test for office. The military is rife with Christian Fundamentalists that insist on trampling the First Amendment guarantees of freedom of speech, religion, and the implied right to freedom of association with their constant prayer rallies that soldiers are required to attend and are punished if they fail to show up. Kids are being kicked out of their homes for coming out as gay/atheist (when was the last time a kid was kicked out for being religious or straight?). The goddists must have God put everywhere as they feel it is a necessity to prevent their sky fairy from doing... something. We don't really know what, but it hasn't diverted hurricanes or prevented earthquakes, or anything else these idiots continually espouse.
Robert @!$%#ing Bork got the top judicial advisement slot from one of the major political parties. The other party had to write in MORE god stuff to their platform even after the delegates voted against it in order to appease... somebody. Gay people are explicitly prohibited from marriage licenses in 32 states, and there are some challenges in others, because of religious bigotry, and this causes a whole mess of problems that most people don't even think about.
But no, what's really important is that Obama didn't say "god" enough in his Thanksgiving address, or referenced to Islam as the "religion of peace," or whatever other thing the fundies have to twist their knickers with in order to keep the magical sky daddy on their side.
Here's a thought: why don't you take your self-righteous, entitled, privileged comment and shove it right back up where you pulled it from?
Excellent comment, Lee-1305582 (8.1). I agree with you 100%.
We do have a lot to fear regarding Muslims, but just look at all the Religious Right nuts in this country, Don't think for a minute something like that can't happen here.......just instead of fanatical Muslims, it will be....well, never mind, those with any kind of intelligence at all can see the possibility of an "Egypt" happening here--it will just most likely be a different religion involved..........
Obama's Arab spring ain't it grand! Replacing brutal secular dictators with brutal radical Islamic dictators. Replacing friends of the U.S. with enemies of the U.S. This is the Hope and Change we can count on from the public organizier in chief.
Look like liberal and leftist in Egypt are sore loosers. They lost an election and now they side with old Mubarak thugs to stay on power. Majority rule and express yourself in the ballot.
As if, us looking in from outside, expected anything less from Morsi and his goons!
Another zionist article, another hate mongering day. whats new about the US media?
US media helped anti-Muslim bodies gain influence, distort Islam
study published by a sociologist has revealed that fear-mongering non-governmental anti-Muslim organisations have been heavily influencing US media since 9/11, their messages seeping into news articles and television reporting and drawing their ethos from the fringes, straight into the mainstream.
What's perhaps most troubling about the results is how these minor groups, which would ordinarily receive little or no air time, have gained an element of respect that has led to them receiving more funding and coupling with influential bodies. Their influence is such that they have even been able to paint mainstream Muslim organisations as radical, says the study.
"The vast majority of organisations competing to shape public discourse about Islam after the September 11 attacks delivered pro-Muslim messages, yet my study shows that journalists were so captivated by a small group of fringe organisations that they came to be perceived as mainstream," the paper's author, University of North Carolina assistant professor of sociology Christopher Bail, told Wired.co.uk.
"Anti-Muslim fringe organisations dominated the mass media via displays of fear and anger. Institutional amplification of this emotional energy, I argue, created a gravitational pull or 'fringe effect' that realigned inter-organisational networks and altered the contours of mainstream discourse itself."
Bail and his team used plagiarism detection software to compare 1,084 press releases produced by 120 different organisations with more than 50,000 television transcripts and newspaper articles produced between 2001 and 2008. The software picked up damning similarities between the releases and stories from news outlets including the New York Times, USA Today, theWashington Times, CBS News, CNN and Fox News Channel.
"We learned the American media almost completely ignored public condemnations of terrorist events by prominent Muslim organisations in the United States," Bail told Wired.co.uk. "Inattention to these condemnations, combined with the emotional warnings of anti-fringe organisations, has created a very distorted representation of the community of advocacy organisations, think tanks, and religious groups competing to shape the representation of Islam in the American public sphere."
Bail told us that some of the organisations most successful in spreading negative warnings about Islam included the Centre for Security Policy (which, rather worryingly, has a former head of the CIA as an honorary co-chairman), the Middle East Forum (which claims to "protect the constitutional order from Middle Eastern threats" through projects such as its horrifyingly named "Islamist Watch" project) and Stop the Islamisation of America -- which needs no explanation.
"The only major US Muslim organisation that has achieved a high level of media influence is the Council on American Islamic Relations, which is now working to rebuff the recent rise in anti-Muslim messages within the American public sphere," said Bail.
Today, more than a decade since 9/11, evidence of that anti-Muslim influence still seeping into government habits is highly concerning.
"Muslim-American organisations have not been adequately represented within our policy process. For example, only one large Muslim-American organisation was invited to participate in recent Senate and Congressional hearings about the threat of radicalisation within the Muslim-American community."
The Homeland Security Committee event was chaired by US Representative for New York's third congressional district Peter King, who felt the need to refer to those Muslim-Americans present as "courageous" for attending -- perhaps a sign of the level of contention surrounding the issue.
Bail's paper, publishedin the American Sociological Review, is part of a wider study which will investigate how the influence of these fringe groups has spread beyond media and in to the real world, where doors have been opened to elite conservative social circles and conservative think tanks -- the first steps to influencing public policy and national opinion. Bail touched upon this in the current study after analysing publicly available information on the organisations' membership, which revealed troubling crossovers between fringe and mainstream organisations.
"In the US all not-for-profit or non-governmental organisations are required to file documentation that describes the names of people who are on their board. My research team collected these names and created a social network map that describes overlapping board membership among the organisations. This social network analysis enabled us to determine precisely which groups are connected to each other, and how these relationships evolved over time.
"They are now part of the mainstream… this media attention gave them visibility and enabled them to forge connections with mainstream conservative organisations such as the American Enterprise Institute."
The Institute is a high profile think tank with well-respected political and social scientists on its board. If groups that boast about projects such as Islamist Watch join forces with powerful, mainstream organisations such as the American Enterprise Institute, which may have access to huge funds, it represents an escalation that will be difficult, if not impossible, to counter.
Key moments beyond 9/11 served to speed up this acquired influence, says Bail, including the calls to burn the Qur'an by Pastor Terry Jones after it was announced an Islamic Centre would be built near to Ground Zero (Jones continues to burn the tome, despite pleas from both the World Evangelical Alliance and the Pentagon to stop) and, most recently, the anti-Muslim film which instigated riots across the globe.
"While the people involved in these events were not affiliated with the groups I studied, I believe the steady rise of anti-Muslim discourse within the American public sphere laid the groundwork for these radical groups."
It's perhaps not all that surprising that fringe, anti-Muslim organisations have been getting some extra air time post-9/11. Their buzzwords and quotes can of course generally be ignored as simply one facet of a much larger discource -- however, what's particularly worrying is the total lack of balanced reporting the study has revealed. Not only that, where news outlets heeded anti-Muslim press releases, they were often quoted verbatim in parts.
"I think most Americans are exposed to anti-Muslim messages in the media and elsewhere. The danger, I believe, is that many Americans have not been exposed to the positive messages of moderate Muslim organisations because they receive so little media coverage. Perhaps because of this distorted representation, we have seen a recent increase in anti-Muslim attitudes within the United States -- even though anti-Muslim attitudes briefly decreased after the September 11 attacks."
Despite the dire picture the findings paints, Bail is a believer that tolerance will win out in a country with such religious zeal that atheists are considered the most distrusted minority group (according to a recent University of Minnesota study).
"It seems most Americans believe that diversity is fine, as long as every one shares a common 'core' of values that make them trustworthy -- and in America, that core has historically been religious," said sociologist Penny Edgell, an author on the Minnesota study. Respondents associated atheism with criminal behaviour, materialism and cultural elitism.
"I do not think it is too late," Bail told Wired.co.uk. "Religious tolerance is deeply embedded within our national character. Muslims have been a positive force in United States history since the 19th century. Before the September 11 attacks, Muslims might have been described as a 'model minority' with above average levels of education and income. They were so inconspicuous that they were routinely confused with Latinos. Needless to say, the September 11 attacks changed everything. Yet although my study shows this event enabled the meteoric rise of anti-Muslim fringe groups, it has also strengthened inter-faith coalitions working to invert the violent stigma attached to Islam."
Despite Bail's light touch of optimism, it is worth noting that he is working on a book which will detail how anti-Muslim fringe organisations have successfully branded mainstream Muslim organisations as radicals, and "achieved considerable influence upon US counter-terrorism policy and public opinion of Muslims more broadly" -- that's more than a little terrifying to consider
What I find to be the most troubling is our current administration praised the egyptian spring with full knowledge of who Morsi was connected to and their agenda to enforce sharia law across the world to establish the long sought caliphate. THEY KNEW and yet supported it it. Fed us lie after lie about how it was a wonderful movement for
democracy in the region. And Clinton today double downed on it by stating that it is her hope that Democracy will still be established. How can she "hope" for such a thing when she knows it is not Morsi's end game??? And for those that would begin the name calling (as usual) without any facts I say to you to go do your homework and come back when better educated.
Oh as a side note. Anyone want to guess who Oboma is meeting with this week other than the top C.E.Os of major american companys? It should shock you but .....it wont. lol
God Bless.
You write nothing but bull sh1t. Why don't you go and spend a vacation in Egipt and see for yourself if this is anti-muslim propaganda. Take your mom along and walk outside,on the street, in western clothing and see if she isn't attack by the rovin mobs of brotherhood rapist thugs who are trying to put woman back inside their homes and dressed from head to toe. are you a muslim,or a stupid naive liberal? why are you defending these thugs?
One only needs to read the founding documents of Islam, the Koran and Hadith, to understand that they have no place in 20th century live and values. They are media too and can now be read at liesure. Perhaps 1000 years ago the West learned a little science from a few researchers that happened to reside in the Islamic world. But Islam was never needed nor wanted. Now the Islamists are trying to push their unwanted dogma onto the rest of the world, through terrorism or immigration and uncontrolled birth rates, and when the rest of the world doesn't want it. There is an emergent nature to Islam that destroys all before it. One only needs to ask the Buddhists that once populated Afghanistan, or the Zoroastrians of Iran, or the Jews of Medina, or the Christians of the Levant, or the Hindus of Pakistan, etc...
Islam doesn't need detractors or critics. It has an existential behavior that we all can observe directly. And what is more incredible is the more radical their behavior, the more it resembles the Prophet's example as described by early Islamic sources.
Guys, I certainly agree with you in opposing Muslim extremism, as I have done so many times here. But that does not apply to ALL Muslims...including my own wonderful doctors, who are the reason I am able to sit here banging on the computer today.
Cassandra, most of us are not condemning all Muslims and saying that they all need to be kicked out or killed, that sort of thing. But, at least for me, Islam itself and Muhammad are fair game. Muhammad set an intolerant, murderous example for Muslims to follow. He preached love for fellow Muslims but contempt and hatred of all things Non-muslim. He killed bound, captured prisoners by his own hand and had critics (poets) murdered for criticizing him. Islam is not an accepting universalist faith but rather a closed, intolerant, aggressive creed that seeks Supremacy over all others on earth. A creed thus structured generates followers who are like-minded and seek to establish Islam above all else by whatever means available including naked, brutal violence and murder. Muslims, of course, are people just like any other with all the variety that entails.
Just as most Christians do not live up to Jesus' high standard of conduct, fortunately most Muslims do not live down to Muhammad's example. But the fanatics want to be just like Muhammad and that's the problem in my opinion.
Bingo, ok so. Too bad so many people don't see it.........
Adam "Just as most Christians do not live up to Jesus' high standard of conduct, fortunately most Muslims do not live down to Muhammad's example"
Very good point
Syria today, Egypt tomorrow.
The attackers resemble growling animals on two legs with blood in their eyes. Brotherhood...huh?
The Islamist thugs back Morsi as they don't want progress or a secular world they want right wing Mullah's in charge and Sharia law. Sharia law will block progress and international relations but far be it from the religious deluded to understand this. Egypt is just the beginning of the slide into religious chaos that the middle east will see. If Israel had half a brain they would vacate their entire country to Australia, or someplace relatively free of the scourge of Islam.
Running away from bullies and thugs just encourages them to run after you. Confronting them with resolution and unified strength is the way to defeat them.
William, as former Australian Prime Minister Paul Keating observed: "Australia is the ass end of the world". But alas, even with this advantage of isolation Australia is no longer "free from the scourge of Islam".
How ironic, the arrival of the convicts in Australia two centuries ago was far preferable to the recent influx of Islam. At least, the early convicts toiled hard to build a continent; but how has Australia --- or any other country --- ever benefited from the psychosis called Islam.
As an example, not too long ago, a mild mannered Algerian-born family man went on to become a self-declared Muslim preacher. And the outcome? This devout Muslim was jailed for 12 years following his failed attempt to blow up an Australian skyscraper (Rialto building, the tallest in the Southern Hemisphere).
Of course, not all Muslims are bad, certainly not, but Islam --- and only Islam --- has the unsavoury penchant for transforming its worshippers from Dr Jekyll to Mr Hyde on a massive scale.
Sir,
I loved what you had to say and you said it well.
Future of Hussein Obama backers & the rest of America ? Time will tell. Something like this will happen right after he tries to amend the Constitution to run for his third & fourth terms. Or repeal the Second Amendment, whichever comes first.
yes bc GW kept the executive branch so small i mean where would we be without the patriot act among so many other of GOP policies that blew up presidential power. YOU'RE A BIASED CHODE!
@Kevin D. Hoke, wow, time for your meds and back to the basement for you. At least Obama hasn't called the Constitution a G0####n piece of paper like your drunked up hero, GW Bush did.
You two are too easy.
LMAO so you kick out one psycho dictator and elect another psycho dictator.. AWESOME.. Dear people of the middle east; we (the rest of the civilized world) are sick and tired of hearing your dumb BS. You obviously have no problem solving skills and when we try to help you burn our flags and storm our embassies because you are ignorant and extremely unintelligent, with a serious itch for violence-- (ok as long as its not directed at us) NO ONE CARES! heres an idea stop electing religious demagogues and corrupt dictators. the middle east is as useful as the p in psycho.
attack...that's what the Muslim Brotherhood does...
How does the US allow a guy like Morsi to be educated at a California University? What is wrong with this picture? Another dictator who comes to the US and with our help pretends to be the answer for Egypt and then seizes dictatorial powers. The US never learns its lesson. We need to stop allowing these animals to come here, take the place of a US citizen in a top University and then go back to their country and try help his fellow terrorists destroy democracy.
ok so
Your camel is calling you dude.
Be sure to take along the butter!
Now we see all kind of Human writes Violated by a Crazy dectator supported By USA, USA help started a Civil War in Egypt all european country taking the side of the revolution but USA is Taking the dectator side and talk about Democracy ???????
Solution.......Arm everyone on the Square in Cairo and simply let them fight it out. The World is starting to wonder why we should care whether these blood thirsty murdering idiots kill each other or not. Every damned day there is another conflict AMONG Islamists due primarily in their inability to live peacefully among each other. AND our POTUS embraces the Muslim Brotherhood, and FUNDS their drive towards another DICTATORSHIP. WTF ......how is it not possible that Americans don't see this and understand what is happening to OUR GOVERNMENT.
@trythisonforsize. Well, lets see, last I heard Congress controls the purse strings, not the President. So who is funding them? Can't be Obama, he's the POTUS, not a congressman. Get your manure together before you lose all sense of right and wrong.
Wait SallyAnn, President Bush has been blamed for spending our nation into massive debt, yet the Democrats held both houses of Congress during his last two years, when the majority of the spending happened. Who is to blame?
I say ALL politicians are to blame, but most people are too partisan to see that.
Absolutely right wolfpack! Remember when Obama called Bush unpatriotic for increasing our national debt by 4-trillion in his eight years as President. Since then President Obama has increased that debt by more than 4-trillion dollars in less than 4-years, twice as fast as Bush and the libs ignore the hypocricy of this administration. President Obama's economic plans keep shoveling our money into the system to pay for the votes he bought with promises of more free stuff that our unborn will have to pay for. Every new born baby born in the USA today is born with a share of our national debt exceeding $60,000.00. That doesn't bother liberals at all. I voted for Obama the first time, but what a huge mistake that was. SallyAnn is the one who needs to get her manure together.
This is exactly the kind of "brown shirt, jack-booted thugery" the Democrats love. Anything to draw the attention from our shores.
This is a "window" into an OBAMA America!! I bet you OBAMA "Voter's" are proud of your leader!
Heck why not give um more dollars?