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Petr David Josek / AP
Protesters chant slogans during a demonstration in front of the presidential palace in Cairo, Egypt, on Sunday.
News analysis
CAIRO — With less than a week to go until a historic referendum is held on a draft constitution that has polarized Egypt, a looming constitutional cliff threatens to plunge the country into further political uncertainty, economic turmoil and violent instability.
First, a recap of the events of the past few weeks: On Nov. 22, President Mohammed Morsi issued a decree that gave him temporary but absolute powers. That decree also shielded the largely Islamist 100-member assembly writing the constitution from the threat of being dissolved by a judicial court order.
The assembly then drafted a constitution that has been widely criticized and divided the country into two main ideological camps.
One one side is Morsi, backed by the Muslim Brotherhood's Freedom and Justice Party, and the ultra-conservative Salafists and their supporters. They have supported the president in rallies and essentially laid siege to independent private news channels they accuse of bias against the president and his political agenda.
NBC's Ayman Mohyeldin reports live from Cairo.
On the other side is a group of liberal, secular, socialist, youth and a few moderate opposition parties that have coalesced around what they call the National Salvation Front, led by Nobel laureate Mohamed ElBaradei, former Foreign Minister Amr Moussa and several other smaller but notable Egyptian figures and movements. They too have protested, rigorously laying siege to the presidential palace.
They claim that the draft constitution, a wide-ranging document that includes articles on trade, education and politics, was drafted by a insular group not reflective of a broad consensus of Egypt's diverse political viewpoints. They argue that it will pave the way for an Islamist takeover of the state that tramples on the rights of individuals, minorities and women.
Egypt opposition rejects Morsi plan for constitutional referendum, calls for more protests
Both camps claim to represent the interests of the revolution. But the unity of that revolution has now given way to fractured politics, which observers say threatens to derail Egypt's transition from authoritarian rule to democracy.
Fair vote possible?
Now that Morsi's controversial decree has been rescinded, the matter boils down to whether the referendum will be held on time and whether the constitution will be approved. The president and his supporters have insisted the referendum go ahead as scheduled on Dec. 15. They are rallying behind the mantra that this constitution strikes the right balance between preserving and advancing Egypt's Islamic identity while protecting the rights of others.
Asmaa Waguih / Reuters
Pro-Morsi supporters hold banners reading "I support the President's decisions," during a march in Cairo on Sunday.
The opposition is rejecting the referendum and the process that led to the vote. They are not calling for a boycott but insist the vote should not be held, and that a new, more inclusive constitutional assembly convened in the near future. They have not explained what they plan on doing on the day of the vote, should it still be held on time.
Politics aside, there are serious questions as to whether or not the state can successfully carry out a free and fair referendum, purely from a logistical point of view. Who will supervise the vote and the counting? Egypt's electoral commission does not yet enjoy the credibility of public confidence after years of mismanaged and engineered elections.
Secondly, Egyptian judges, various judicial unions and clubs are divided over whether or not they should boycott supervising the referendum process. To make matters even more questionable, close to 200 diplomats responsible for supervising expatriate voting at Egyptian embassies around the world say they will not supervise it, threatening to discredit a chunk of the voting.
Military granted temporary powers
Against this backdrop, the country is as divided and as explosive as it has ever been since last year's revolution.
A lack of security is a chronic problem. The police force is widely discredited as corrupt and inept, and few -- besides its own leaders -- believe it can competently safeguard the integrity of the vote and more importantly the safety and security of voters.
To ensure the vote runs smoothly, the president has turned to the country's military to safeguard the process, and has given it power to temporarily arrest and detain citizens. Already, some have criticized that move as a step back for the country trying to break free from the shackles of military rule and voter intimidation.
Egypt army gets temporary power to arrest civilians ahead of referendum
If the political uncertainty and street violence weren't enough, Egypt's stock market reacted negatively to the recent developments. An attempt by the president's government to increase state revenue by imposing one of the largest tax hikes the country has ever seen backfired on Monday with the stock market plunging in reaction to the news. A few hours later, the president said the tax hike would be frozen and not go into effect yet. Meanwhile, the International Monetary Fund's board of directors was set to meet in Washington, D.C., to decide whether a $4-billion loan should be extended to Egypt.
Still the president and his supporters, along with several of the state's institutions and judicial bodies, say all of these challenges must -- and indeed will -- be overcome to bring Egypt to a historic vote in less than a week's time. Egypt is rapidly approaching its constitutional cliff as the world watches.
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Leave a Comment:
Lets send them some more money,we certainly dont need it!
WE HAVE A SPENDING PROBLEM ALL OVER THE WORLD
so let the Feds take your enetitlements to give to Egypt!
I like sending printed fiat money to everyone all over the World and pay the interest to the Federal Reserve
OBAMA MONEY
Give up all you paid into like, Social Security so it can be given away to the Muslim Brotherhood
LMAO YOUR ASKED TO GIVE UP WHAT YOU PAID FOR AND MOST OF YOU GO ON THE BAN WAGON AND SAY TAKE SS FROM AMERICANS because some voice over the radio says so... you jump on the ban wagon.
The Fiscal Cliff is for SHEEPLE TO BE DRIVEN OVER!
Time to push back!?
Lifer politicians
L AZY
I GNORANT
F 'ERS
E XPECTING
R ETIRMENT
" Meanwhile, the International Monetary Fund's board of directors was set to meet in Washington, D.C., to decide whether a $4-billion loan should be extended to Egypt."
We need that $4 billion here at home!
Perhaps the citizens of the United States need to unite and impose term limits on all of Senate and Congress. They also seem to be out of touch with the needs of America.?
Anyone else find them to be more concerned with their own adjenda and advancement of their own parties.......and less of the needs for America as a whole?
Maybe its time for the people to impose "Term Limits" for Congress?
Instead of sending money, why not send people to help Egypt reform and administer their voting process?
On second thought, we could use help with that right here at home...
Thank God for America.
Secertly Obama supports Morsi & the Muslim Brotherhood. They will get a Obama bailout, we just won't know about it!
@lee
a bail out....we give them a billion dollars a year now. our seniors got a 1.7% increase, that's $17.00 a month and their medicare went up over $8.00, that leaves them a little over $8.00 a month, what a joke on our seniors.
the billion will use to buy military equipment which use for thee holy jihad
Feel free to give my hard earned money to these Islamist jerk-offs, after all I've only been in the work force for about 40 years! And why not let the Talaban take over the entire country and blow up the Pyramids too while they're at it. These people will never live in peace. They are still stuck back in the 8th century.....talk to the wall/
Under Mubarak that aid came in the way of agreeing to sell F16s to Egypt which apparently the US is still agreeing to do. Stupid. We are arming those that intend to combine with others in that region to advance a war with Israel.
The question with this constitution is that only one group got a say while others were moved to walk away when they were not heard. I fail to see how this is ANY different when Obama/democrats pushed through legislation to change our health care system. Obama is no different than Morisi. They both said it was in the interest of their country and that the other side stood in the way of a better life for the citizens. It is always easy to make such an argument, but both Obama and Morisi refused to acknowledge the other voices.
Actually, we're also selling them a lot more than F-16's. Apparently the Egyptian army needs more M1 Abrams as well:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/dec/6/muslim-brotherhood-inherits-us-war-gear/
General Dynamic and Lockheed know better than anyone how to grease the wheels of democracy.
I present
Dr Ron Paul
Economic Ignorance
Economic ignorance is commonplace. Keynesianism continues
to thrive, although today it is facing healthy and enthusiastic rebuttals.
Believers in military Keynesianism and domestic Keynesianism continue to
desperately promote their failed policies, as the economy languishes in a deep
slumber.
Supporters of all government edicts use humanitarian
arguments to justify them.
Humanitarian arguments are always used to justify
government mandates related to the economy, monetary policy, foreign policy,
and personal liberty. This is on purpose to make it more difficult to
challenge. But, initiating violence for humanitarian reasons is still violence.
Good intentions are no excuse and are just as harmful as when people use force
with bad intentions. The results are always negative.
The immoral use of force is the source of man’s political
problems. Sadly, many religious groups, secular organizations, and psychopathic
authoritarians endorse government initiated force to change the world. Even
when the desired goals are well-intentioned—or especially when
well-intentioned—the results are dismal. The good results sought never
materialize. The new problems created require even more government force as a
solution. The net result is institutionalizing government initiated violence
and morally justifying it on humanitarian grounds.
This is the same fundamental reason our government uses
force for invading other countries at will, central economic planning at home,
and the regulation of personal liberty and habits of our citizens.
It is rather strange, that unless one has a criminal mind
and no respect for other people and their property, no one claims it’s
permissible to go into one’s neighbor’s house and tell them how to behave, what
they can eat, smoke and drink or how to spend their money.
Yet, rarely is it asked why it is morally acceptable that
a stranger with a badge and a gun can do the same thing in the name of law and
order. Any resistance is met with brute force, fines, taxes, arrests, and even
imprisonment. This is done more frequently every day without a proper search
warrant.
So Obama has traded a pro-American dictator for an anti-American dictator.
I guess that's part of the 'Change we can Believe in' that you voted for. Congratulations.
I did an analysis of American war deaths over the last 100 years, and over 96% of American deaths occurred under Democratic Presidents, despite the political parties each holding the White House about equal amounts of time.
It appears that Democrats have a naive inability to PREVENT wars. I hope history doesn't repeat itself.
Since when is the revolution in Egypt Obama's doing?
Oh, wait...I forgot. EVERYTHING that is wrong in the world is Obama's fault.
If you read history (or even just watch the news) you'll know who started the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Hint: it wasn't a Democrat.
We voted for Obama so history wouldn't repeat itself with that empty suit Romney starting a war with Iran.
Kay; "It wasn't a Democrat"
Watching bias news? Really! However your right. It was Muslime murders (terrorist)
The Brotherhood is a violent terrorist Islamist group that belongs back in prison where they were before.And to call the Salafists an "ultra conconservative group" doesn`t make clear it`s true nature,They are even more violent and murderous than the Brotherhood. They are international and have connections mostly in North Africa but operate wherever they can.-including Europe.Their suicide mass bombings are infamous. Ultra conservative.yes..But also pyschopathic brainwashed mass murderers!
I believe flying 5 planes into building killing 3000+ Americans is an act of war. But blaming Bush is soooo much more Obama like. How can a true American push not mention the killing of our own people? Progressive Putz!
Enstrom... Got your back entirely, wish everyone else felt that way.
Screw the mid-east...
kaybeetoys
It was the Democrats who led the US into both World Wars, the Korean War and the war in Vietnam. It is the Democrats who are the war party; not the Republicans.
If you really wanted peace you had your chance with Ron Paul.
Do you know what I think? I think Morsi is trying to make a power grab. And instead of a brutal military dictator that is pro-USA and kept peace with Israel, Egypt may very well have a brutal Muslim Extremist dictator who is anti-USA and most likely anti-Israel. Oh, and a country we counted on to be a rock of stability in the region has become extremely unstable. The scariest part for me, is that the government is now a religious one. Religion should be separate from government because everyone not of that government religion is left out or worse. And it is often worse. In order to have true freedom of religion, the government can't just be occupied with one religion. And the middle east desperately needs an attitude that promotes freedom of religion for all, not just one. But instead, Egypt gets the Muslim Brotherhood. Bad, bad, and very bad!
Now let me be clear, I am not against the Muslim religion. And this is coming from a Jew. But there are too many of these radicals who hide behind the Muslim faith to try to justify their murderous ways. And most of them come from that part of the world. So having a government that is strictly Muslim suggests it is more likely to support or even sponsor radical extremist groups in the region. And with the power grab moves Morsi has made recently, I don't trust him as far as I could throw him. Religion should be separate from government anyways. I sincerely hope that the Muslim Brotherhood does not stay in power in Egypt.
Uhhhh... JEM? Remember that whole George W. Bush - Iraq thing? No? The fact that he also got us into Afghanistan and such? Not ringing a biased bell?
The truth is both parties have started wars. But to say the Democrats are the party of war? My gosh, there's a reason the Republican Party used to be known for their "Hawks." But I'm sure you are not a Republican and would have no reason to be biased to the point of warping reality, right?
WE HAVE A SPENDING PROBLEM ALL OVER THE WORLD
so let the Feds take your enetitlements to give to Egypt!
I like sending printed fiat money to everyone all over the World and pay the interest to the Federal Reserve
OBAMA MONEY
Give up all you paid into like, Social Security so it can be given away to the Muslim Brotherhood
LMAO YOUR ASKED TO GIVE UP WHAT YOU PAID FOR AND MOST OF YOU GO ON THE BAN WAGON AND SAY TAKE SS FROM AMERICANS because soem voice over the radio says so... you jump on the ban wagon.
And the Republicans have an inate, almost pathelogical ablity.. no make that need and desire to create war... what is your point?
I am so sure Mrs. Merkel will come up with a "plan" to "kick the can down the road".
Still waiting on France to implode.
Wait a minute....emergency meeting at the IMF to "demand" member Nations ante up more for another Greek bailout.....and guess who will be the first to arrive......Mr. TurboTax Geithner and hid buddy, helicopter Bernanke, with a blank U.S. cash only check.
Hi everybody. In Egypt they have been saying since many years that Jewish Americans control American economy , and that is why the safety of Israel is a priority to any president . If this is true , I do not mind . In this case , Obama should support Morsi because , as a member of Muslim Brotherhood , he is able to hinder Hamas , who are also MB , more than anybody else in Egypt . Also in this case , a good deal of American aid to Egypt is Jewish money . So , in fact , American Jewish are paying money to Egypt to secure safety of Israel which is very very very logic . If all of this is true , then it is very simple .
N.B. Excuse my English , it is not my mother language .
"it will pave the way for an Islamist takeover of the state that tramples on the rights of individuals, minorities and women."
So now some religious fanatics get to decide what's legal and what rights women and religious minorities are entitled to.
The 'people have spoken'.
Those who have benefited from the past regime of Hosni Mubarak for over 30 years will definitely find all means to stop this change because it will remove them from power and influence. Egiptians are advised to headto change and support their president-Morsi.
It should be noted that this kind of opportunity is rare.
Ajao
You are one sick puppy
If Egypt goes down the path of further infusing its laws with religionist tenets, its laws will be further based upon the irrational, and that will lead to continuing social, political, and moral upheaval.
Adopting Islamic law as the law of the land will mean substituting superstitious nonsense (no matter how well honored) for rational intelligence.
I think that everyone needs to realize the need for food aid, medical aid, and financial aid, and that aid packages can be reduced or cut off entirely. I see in the article the IMF is pondering an aid package. Morsi, constitution, or no constitution will be remembered for being a temporary dictator, if he could do it once, he could do it twice, and so his future is questionable in relation to Western Aid Sources, and their own political demands. If his claim to fame is brokering a cease fire deal in Gaza, that's not much of a claim to fame as Gaza's leadership has been absent since 1967 which is akin to saying no leadership. I'm one who favors restricting aid packages myself, for as an American I know I will be called disrespectful names aid or no aid. Egypt has some very talented intelligent people who are best suited to argue out what Egypt wants and expects, who can then translate those ideas out to the aid providers. That Egyptian radicals can make demands, I'm not so sure they carry a big enough stick for this fight. What are they going to do if their demands aren't met? They wouldn't be demanding aid if they didn't need it, would they? Or are they demanding more than they are deserving of? Time will tell. Once they go over the cliff and fill up the hole, then at some point it's mountain building time again.
I don't know what's to decide!
wait for it.... wait for it....GENOCIDE!!!!
Islamic law??? Cleopatra must be rolling in her sarcophagus.
Wait for this too - their crying, bytching and moaning. You can set your watch to it. Soon we'll hear the siren calls: "we want democracy and liberation and we need your help!" And sure enough, Uncle Sucker will fall for it, giving us here same the bullsh1t lines: "it's in our best interests" and "we're making the world a better place by spreading democracy" and whatever lie other Washington they can come up with. Or, perhaps - knowing that they can't sell us any more wars, Washington will use backhanded tactics and get us into yet another proxy war under the guise of "a humanitarian mission."
Yep. We've seen this movie ten thousand times before, haven''t we?
HOTTICKET-2304234
and it always ends the same...
Yep, and as sure as the sun comes up. You got it!
HOPE IS A STRONGER EMOTION THAN FEAR
If you can learn how to manipulate hope you can manipulate populations all over the World.
It is better to give hope than to instill fear. Hope is a better way to manage people.
But not too much hope, because then it can carry over into Revolution Freedom and Liberty
Hunger Games... begin!
The islamists of Morsi will get (in a democratic way) 99.9% of the votes.
The move by Morsi to cancel the sweeping powers he gave himself is pretty much meaningless at this point. The main purpose of the decree was to prevent the courts from dissolving the group writing the constitution. Now that the draft constitution is done and is going to a referendum Morsi does not really need the powers. Once the referendum passes, and it will pass the same way the Muslim Brotherhood made sure Morsi won the election, the powers will largely be returned. Under the constitution, all laws and judicial decisions will be subject to review by the Islamist clerics who are one the side of the MB. This means that free speech and freedom of religion will disappear in Egypt. If there were a fair vote the new constitution would go down, but there is no way the MB will allow that to happen. They can not take the risk of losing control and will do what they need to in order to maintain the control they now have. Of course even if by some miracle the referendum fails, the MB will just make sure that the new group elected to rewrite it will be dominated by the Islamists and the whole thing will start all over again until the MB gets a constitution with the controls and provisions they want to pass. At this point the only way the MB is going to give up control of Egypt is if the military turns on them and kicks them out. They have a stranglehold on Egypt and the elections processes so they will just continue to rig the elections to keep their control.
Morsi is now counting on the military to help keep the protesters away while the Muslim Brotherhood goes about their business of rigging the referendum to ensure that it passes. God forbid anyone should get in the way of the MB making sure that the referendum goes through granting the Islamists total control over the country. I can not believe that the Egyptian army is allowing itself to be used in this way.
JS in SD
And what is even sadder is the fact that the USA is Supporting him not only with money, but High Tech Weapons also.
So you think we should be supporting the Leftist, Occupy Wall Street types that are opposed to the Moslem Brotherhood instead?
It would be best if we were to adopt a foreign policy similar to Japan, Brazil, Argentina, etc. It is no accident that the US is the target of terrorists all over the world. The US meddles, screws things up an becomes the target for revenge. Our foreign policy endangers us.
If you wanted national security you had your chance with Ron Paul, but you found meddling in other nations affairs more important than national security
Here we are fighting amoungst ourselves about money and obama and crew are giving away billions in aid and Military Equiptment.
What the HEII is this all about. He would rather support the MBH then his own people.
All this printing and spending is on purpose.
Why? To destroy our economy and put US on our knees and beg for the UN to help us.
UNCLE SAM... THE MOLESTER UNCLE...The things being done all over the world are coming to YOUR neighborhood soon!
BLOWBACK-KARMA-
Same old bible thumping angry old white men educated by FOX news engaging in Obama bashing.
Contrary to conservative beliefs, there are things that go on in the world that are not Obama's fault. Yes, its hard to accept but so is the concept of a round earth and the fact that the Flintstones is a cartoon ... not a documentary.
The harder you push your conspiracy theories, the further away you drive mainstream America and the chances for a republican victory ... even in something as simple as being elected dog catcher. When will you learn that your faulty, over the top rhetoric hurts your cause more than it helps?
Mike-1961582
You wouldn't say Sh!t , if you had a mouthful would you.
OUR Country is BROKE and going BROKER and obama is by Billions of Dollars worth of Military Hardware and sending Billions of Dollars in cash to this mad man and you call it an obama conspiracy....
Pull your head out of your arse and do a little research... Maybe ya might want to start with reading about this: (Oh By the Way... IT DIDN'T come from FOX... It came from Egypt)
Inside Look at Muslim Brotherhood's Torture Chambers
The Muslim Brotherhood has replaced Hosni Mubarak, but an inside look at Egypt's torture chambers reveal that they remain the same despite the Obama administration's attempt to make Egypt safe for democracy.
51% voted for Obama...careful what you ask for...campainging is not a plan...it's an agenda...wake up people!
Sending money or military equipment to ANY Islamist country is wrong. The muslim brotherhood is no friend to the US or any of our true allies (if we really have any left).
Read a Koran, folks. You either become muslim, a slave, or die. That's what their holy book directs. Don't give me any crap about moderate muslims. It's all a ruse to get free aid, and then use it against us.
Since they are writing about it in the liberal media, I have one question?
How much more money are we going to be sending them on top of what we already do?
WhereHasAmericaGone
Over 4 BILLION (This time and Egypt has already asked for 2 Billion More)
Prestitute media tells you nothing but what they want you to think and buy
What's not reported is Al Qaeda leader Ayman al-Zawahiri's video for Ismail to reignite the revolution to make sure Egypt will become a true Islamist State (http://www.egyptindependent.com/news/al-qaeda-leader-calls-abu-ismail-reignite-revolution ..on youtube to boot . Furthermore independent newspaper editor and reporter detained for telling the fact that MB behind attacks- an offense against the State/Morsy. Why is Obama inviting Morsy to the WH/Washington.D.C.- initiaslly on Dec. 17,2012- now postponed to January 2013? Obama adm. is still wearing 'blinds' not seeing any evil in MB/Nour coup d'etat- not hearing any evil when others do (State TV/media-press releases by Morsy). For all actual happenings/events read Egypt Independent to see how the multitudes of Egyptians are being stripped of their rights by totalitarians- happened the same way in Weimar Republic and Obama/HRC stay silent . Egyptians deserve to have a normal life in a normal state without fear/punishment/death /detainments without charges because US/Obama/HRC are backing the totalitarian fundamentalist zealots subjugating Egyptians and condemning them to live in a totalitarian state- with totalitarian violence/imprisonment. Ask also what is happening in Syria- the AQ foreign/MB rebels have a youtube video of a 10 yr old boy decapitating 2 Syrian army prisoners. Its all over the world except US sites- this is beastial-even animals in hunting prey in their hunger would never resort to this beastiality.
Inside Look at Muslim Brotherhood's Torture Chambers
The Muslim Brotherhood has replaced Hosni Mubarak, but an inside look at Egypt's torture chambers reveal that they remain the same despite the Obama administration's attempt to make Egypt safe for democracy.
At least two things have not changed: Violence and protests.
The Egyptian Al-Masry Al-Youm newspaper, with the help of a Brotherhood-owned television station, was given a rare tour of the torture chambers by the Muslim Brotherhood, which does not allow anyone to access the compound without its own permission. The report was translated and published by the Al Monitor website.
During a three-hour visit, the newspaper's reporter revealed, "Protesters suspected of working against the Muslim Brotherhood are tortured and beaten with the knowledge of the police before being handed over for formal detention at a site just outside the presidential palace in Heliopolis."
Bearded Muslim Brotherhood police and security officials, some in civilian clothes and some in military uniforms, supervise 15 bearded men who carry out whippings and beatings of demonstrators arrested for opposing Egyptian President Mohammed Morsi.
After the violent suppression of protesters by Mubarak's regime, Morsi was swept into power in a democratic voted heralded by President Barack Obama as a new age of democracy for the Middle East.
Morsi announced two weeks ago he was giving himself new and exclusive powers as he presented a new Egyptian constition based on Sharia law, sparking the same kind of protests and violent suppression that marked the end of the Mubarak regime.
Inside the torture chambers, protesters or even one who is suspected of opposing the Muslim Brotherhood are punched, kicked and beaten with a stick over their entire body.
The torture was carried out before the eyes of the Egyptian newspaper's reporter, and the Brotherhood allowed him to witness it so that he would report the beatings and instill fear into protesters.
"They tear off his clothes and take him to the nearest secondary torture chamber, from which CSF [Central Security Forces -ed.] personnel, members of the Interior Ministry and the State Security Investigations Services (SSIS) are absent," the journalist reported.
"It is hard to determine how many locations there are, given that the torture chambers are established as near as possible to where a person is arrested. Before the interrogation process starts, they search him, seize his funds, cellphones or ID, all the while punching and slapping his face in order to get him to confess to being a thug and working for money.
"They ask him why he took to the street, whether he got paid to take part in the protest and whether he supports Mohamed ElBaradei, founder of the Constitution Party, or Hamdeen Sabahi, founder of the Egyptian Popular Current or the dissolved Egyptian Nationalist movement. As long as this person denies the allegations, they beat him and insult his parents."
Beatings continued while the victims were transported from the secondary torture chamber to the central one. Many of the prisoners were unable to answer questions after severe beatings, and they were not given medical aid despite bleeding over their entire bodies.
Once the protesters are handed over to the police, the Muslim Brotherhood thugs fall out of the picture.
"We left the place and found blood flowing on the sidewalk of the palace," wrote the Al-Masry reporter. "Someone had tried to cover the blood with soil to remove it. However, no one will be able to clean the image of this blood from the memory of Egyptians for hundreds of years."
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/163015
READ BETWEEN THE LINES
In Syria we are supporting al-Qeada rebels.
many news articles stating this from many sources...
WE ARE SUPPORTING al-Qeada in Syria LYBIA DEATHS BECAUSE OF SHIPMENT OF 10,000 shoulder held heat seeking rockets to the Rebels in Syria back w/ foreign jihadist al-Queda, trained in Saudi
soon Muslim brotherhood will design gas chamber
@ sheepled, the current Syrian regime which the rebels are rebelling against has consistently been one of the top (if not the top) countries in state sponsored terrorism in the entire world. It is well known that Syria even went so far as to have terrorist training camps for these dirt bags. Supporting the current regime in Syria is basically supporting terrorism. Oh, and add genocide to their own people to that. I don't know why people think that supporting them is the right thing to do.
Yes, there are rumors that radical extremists like al-Qeada have infiltrated the rebellion. In fact, I even believe those rumors because it sounds like something they would try to do. But the majority of the revolution is only rebelling because of Syria's oppressive "government" which does things like genocide against their own people. While opportunistic dirt-bags like al-Qeada remnants may have infiltrated some of the revolution, the majority is still clean. We just have to make sure that when we support the rebels, those opportunistic dirt bags are identified and thwarted before they can seize power and we have to deal with another Egypt.
Egypt is a hornets nest of street thugs as is the entire Middle East. Let them kill each other off.
Sharia law is an abomination in light of evolving moral standards. In no way will it help Egypt with it's very real 21st century problems. The only outcome will be the misery and frustration of the intelligent half of the population.
Sharia law will be the superstitious application of nonsensical divinely inspired bigotry from the mind of a 7th century nomadic spiritual warlord. It will not serve Egypt well, and that is the real battle here. Has the newfound 'democracy' become a venue for real progress and modern innovation, or a throwback to bearded Imam power structures.
Islam and Sharia will build a society in which the sick and superstitious can kill healthy minds with religiously sanctified impunity. The evolutionary result will be a Talibanesque Egypt.
The Koran and Hadith are bully books that relegate all other literature and belief systems to obsolescence. It is easy to see the obsession of preserving the so-called perfect image of a ruthless, misogynistic genocidal prophet. Objective evaluation of the narratives of true Sharia applied in it's original form is poignant and cruel especially if you are an unbeliever.
Those Egyptians who are fighting against this are aware of the backward path into bellicose superstition it will lead. But in a democracy where illiteracy is rampant, and the authors of the constitution are elected from the rabble, this will be the result.
WE HAVE A SPENDING PROBLEM ALL OVER THE WORLD
so let the Feds take your enetitlements to give to Egypt!
I like sending printed fiat money to everyone all over the World and pay the interest to the Federal Reserve
OBAMA MONEY
Give up all you paid into like, Social Security so it can be given away to the Muslim Brotherhood
LMAO YOUR ASKED TO GIVE UP WHAT YOU PAID FOR AND MOST OF YOU GO ON THE BAN WAGON AND SAY TAKE SS FROM AMERICANS because soem voice over the radio says so... you jump on the ban wagon.
Gollee gee! A moslem country with islamo-fanatic rulers facing political uncertainty, economic turmoil and violent instability. Who would have ever guessed that? And they have a police force that is widely discredited as corrupt and inept, Maybe they took lessons from the Mexican Federales. Or was it the other way around?
Isaiah 19
Isaiah goes on to say that after god heals what he just destroyed the Egyptians will work with the Assyrians (Syria/N. Iraq/SE Turkey) AND with Israel. This is supposedly after the messiah has done his stuff. This should've already happened since you (I assume) think the messiah came 2012 +/- years ago
Really, just putting down an old testament verse without understanding it is ridiculous. Did you just read the first line about Egyptian fighting Egyptian and lack of jobs and not the rest?
"And the Lord shall smite Egypt: he shall smite and heal it: and they shall return even to the Lord, and he shall be intreated of them, and shall heal them.
23 In that day shall there be a highway out of Egypt to Assyria, and the Assyrian shall come into Egypt, and the Egyptian into Assyria, and the Egyptians shall serve with the Assyrians.
24 In that day shall Israel be the third with Egypt and with Assyria, even a blessing in the midst of the land:
25 Whom the Lord of hosts shall bless, saying, Blessed be Egypt my people, and Assyria the work of my hands, and Israel mine inheritance."
This is what is needed in the USA , toss the whole government out at one time , wipe all but the Bill of Rights of the books and start again when we where a great nation.
To the states trying to get of of the union. Don't do that. Kick the district of columbia out of the us and that will get rid of all the trash at one time.
If you drew a 25 mile diameter circle around the White House, arrested and jailed everyone inside, you would get rid of half of the organized and dis-organized crime in the US. Of course, Mexico would send a whole fleet of lawyers and drug money to get their "citizens" out for free....
That is the Whole Idea of the Secession movement.
Remove the power of the Federal Gov and the Federal Reserve
Restore the original Constitution and remove all the Liberal Progressive agendas like the Federal Reserve.
The ppl you call liberals are all that believe in Central Fed Gov and the Fed Reserve
A true liberal is ppl Like Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, Ben Franklin
Liberal Progressive is a completely different animal
And the Obama administration just sent the Muslim brotherhood 20 F-16s!!! Brilliant! They can blast the opposition, and then turn their guns and bombs on Israel.
Dan in Madison
And they were the up-graded ones.
We should treat Egypt just like Syria...
Send in al-Qeada
When will the US get an idea, you cannot export democracy, especially to muslime countries! They do not have the historic training; one man-one vote is a foreign concept. So you are going to have a dictator, only question is, will it be a secular dictator who is trying to move the country into the eighteenth century, or a muslime dictator who is headed full speed toward the stone age?
We helped the Egyptians overthrow their previous ruler, now what has it given them? What about Libya? And get ready for the next Islamic bloodbath when Syria falls. How's that Arab spring working here in the winter?
Correct. They want a strong leader who will keep the lights on and ensure sufficient food and water. If a few rights are trampled in the process, no biggie.
Dr Ron Paul
Economic Ignorance
Economic ignorance is commonplace. Keynesianism continues
to thrive, although today it is facing healthy and enthusiastic rebuttals.
Believers in military Keynesianism and domestic Keynesianism continue to
desperately promote their failed policies, as the economy languishes in a deep
slumber.
Supporters of all government edicts use humanitarian
arguments to justify them.
Humanitarian arguments are always used to justify
government mandates related to the economy, monetary policy, foreign policy,
and personal liberty. This is on purpose to make it more difficult to
challenge. But, initiating violence for humanitarian reasons is still violence.
Good intentions are no excuse and are just as harmful as when people use force
with bad intentions. The results are always negative.
The immoral use of force is the source of man’s political
problems. Sadly, many religious groups, secular organizations, and psychopathic
authoritarians endorse government initiated force to change the world. Even
when the desired goals are well-intentioned—or especially when
well-intentioned—the results are dismal. The good results sought never
materialize. The new problems created require even more government force as a
solution. The net result is institutionalizing government initiated violence
and morally justifying it on humanitarian grounds.
This is the same fundamental reason our government uses
force for invading other countries at will, central economic planning at home,
and the regulation of personal liberty and habits of our citizens.
It is rather strange, that unless one has a criminal mind
and no respect for other people and their property, no one claims it’s
permissible to go into one’s neighbor’s house and tell them how to behave, what
they can eat, smoke and drink or how to spend their money.
Yet, rarely is it asked why it is morally acceptable that
a stranger with a badge and a gun can do the same thing in the name of law and
order. Any resistance is met with brute force, fines, taxes, arrests, and even
imprisonment. This is done more frequently every day without a proper search
warrant.
Ahhh, the lovely Arab Spring.
Sounds like a nasty outbreak of Islam. Man! I hate it when that happens. Maybe our Muslim-in-Chief will go down there and start earning that Nobel Peace prize they handed him for the color of his skin.
Steve The Dog Man: Why don't you stop sniveling, and whining, and foaming out your own shame? Do you realise you are working against your own country, when you spew out harmful statements like you just did?
You may hate Mr. O, that's fine. But he's the president now, so suck it up. I did when GW Bush was in....the person responsible for the mess we got in. (Yes, you will say that GW didn't blow up the towers, but he DID go into a country that had NOTHING to do with it, Iraq.)
The Muslim-in-Chief bit is rather stupid, as Obama is truly neither Muslim nor Christian as far as I can tell, but a secular humanist.
The bit about him getting a Peace Prize for the color of his skin may seem like a cheap shot but it is really an example of the word "Mokito", from New Guinea (which means "the truth that every knows but nobody talks about")
The policy, of giving, more money to Egypt, is under revue at this time in Washington! We have to wait and see how that comes out. My thoughts are to wait, until we see how things work out in their new government, before we make the decision to give or not to give. We should pray, for the ones who make these decisions, who have the rule over us. That they make the right decisions, so we, and our families, can live in peace in our country, and around the world.
baaaaaaahhhh.......baaahhhhh.....
Dale .....I'm going to make an executive decision here and say we give them ....NOT ONE THIN DIME !! We give and give and give .....and what do we get ? Nothing but condemnation and blame. Throwing money at Egypt or any other country in this region is ABSURD ! Like Kathy said you're one of the sheeple ...
PValdes: You can make all the decisions you want, it does not mean anything, only in your mind! The scripture, says to pray for them that have the rule over you, that they make the right decisions, so you and your families will live in peace[ not verbatim,] but it is close enough. If that makes me a sheep? Then " OH WELL." scripture says in response to when the end would be, not verbatim You shall hear of wars and rumors of wars, earth quakes in diverse places, pestilence their would be blood on the moon etc. When you see these things come to pass, it would not mean the end, but it would be just the beginning of sorrow, it is in the scriptures if you want to read it word for word! So if it makes me a sheep to believe the scriptures , then so be it! I read a scripture , that says He will shatter the nations with a rod of iron! many things were prophesied, and they will happen.
Dale ....I certainly was not referring to your belief in scripture. I was referring to your belief in those in Washington to do the right thing. They have proven to be at the very least ....Not worthy of our trust. I pray for our Nation, its people and the World all the time. I have given up however, praying for those would profit from the suffering of the meek.....Their judgement is not in my hands. Only one rules over me .....and I think we both know who that is.
PValdes; I understand, what you're saying. It's just that I believe , God is in control of the powers that be. Again Scripture: The heart of the king is in the hands of the Lord. There is no power that is not ordained by God . I'm saying some of these out of context, but they are true just the same. I do believe, that every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus is the Lord! When, a nation goes away from God; no matter how it happens, there will be consequences, in my belief. Scripture : i think it says something like, Sin is a disgrace to any nation. I do not judge anyone, I do see what is happening in the entire world today, and it just keeps getting worse. There is another scripture: saying that we will be able to discern the weather , but not be able to discern the signs of the times, again not actual wording, but this seems to be happening today, they can tell what the weather will be weeks be fore it happens, and not see the things happening , that were prophesied many years ago. That is why I say pray for them who are in power, that they make the right decisions that effect our lives!
The Lord is My Shepperd, I shall not want. Jesus, said, My sheep know my voice, and they follow me. I pray, that I am one of His sheep.
Sigh. I guess now all crises are going to be called "cliffs", similar to the way scandals have gotten the suffix "-gate" for decades now.
It must be all Obama's fault.
Wow that's original ....
I'm sure you mean Bush's fault..........at least that's what YOU have been saying for years.
For all of you who bitch about this good old US of A we live in......Take a look around....There is till no place I would rather be. However, if we continue down the road we are on. It will not be long before we have a similar political environment.
Sadly, you are right.
And "not long" is probably a lot sooner than most people think: between the Patriot Act and NDAA 2012 and the other stuff, there is not a lot opposing the trend towards totalitarianism.
Meet the new boss, WORSE than the old boss.
Lets see if I understand US government policy:
We borrow money from China and then give that money to countries inhabited by people that don't like us.
Makes a lot of sense. NOT!!!!
Or how about the A123 Battery Company up in Michigan that received $249 million in stimulus funds. A123 spent at least $132 million of its $249 million stimulus package grant to build two Detroit-area factories in 2010, but now in 2012 it is bankrupt and all assets of battery maker A123 are being sold to a Chinese competitor.
So for $256.6 million, the Chinese firm would get all that the stimulus package purchased plus the company’s existing operations in Massachusetts and Missouri and have the chance to pare down the company to profitability without the overhead of A123’s debt. Whatever share of the original $249 million stimulus grant that the Treasury borrowed from China will still have to be paid back.
So, we borrow money from China for about $250 million. We give it to a company that goes bankrupt and is bought by China for nearly the same amount so that in reality, the company is transferred to China while the payment is made to the US but the money is even. Then, the US, having borrowed the money from China in the first place, still has to pay back the $250 million to China.
What a shell game! Not only does China get all their money back, they get a $250 million dollar US factory as well! In the end, it is just like we gave China a $250 million dollar US company for free when you really think about the money trail.
Kind of makes you wonder why the U.S. is about to send more than 20 F-16 fighter jets, as part of a $1 billion foreign aid package, to Egypt.
Should not they delay delivery until they know who will be in charge or these warplanes?
The first four jets are to be delivered to Egypt beginning Jan. 22 according to the naval air base in Fort Worth, Texas where the jets are being tested now prior to delivery.
"The U.S. government ordered and paid for the fighter jets for Egypt's military as part of foreign aid for Egypt back in 2010, when Hosni Mubarak ruled. The fighter jets were supposed to be delivered in 2013, and delivery will go ahead as scheduled even though Hosni Mubarak has been removed from power and replaced by Mohamed Morsi, who led the Muslim Brotherhood before becoming Egypt's president."
At last a commenter who has actually read a book in the last decade. Thank you JRS.