Official: Rivera's plane hit with 'terrible' impact

 

MEXICO CITY - The plane carrying Mexican-American music superstar Jenni Rivera plunged almost vertically from more than 28,000 feet and hit the ground in a nose-dive at a speed that may have exceeded 600 miles per hour, Mexico's top transportation official said Tuesday.

In the first detailed account of the moments leading up to the crash that killed Rivera and six other people, Secretary of Communications and Transportation Gerardo Ruiz Esparza told Radio Formula that the twin-engine turbojet hit the ground 1.2 miles from where it began falling.

"The plane practically nose-dived," he said. "The impact must have been terrible."

Ruiz did not offer any explanation of what may have caused the plane to plummet, saying only that "The plane fell from an altitude of 28,000 feet ... It may have hit a speed higher than 1,000 kph (621 mph)."

Ruiz said the pilot of the plane, Miguel Perez Soto, had a valid Mexican pilot's license that would have expired in January. Photos of a temporary pilot's certificate issued by the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration and found amid the wreckage said that Perez was 78.


Ruiz said there is no age limit for flying a civil aviation aircraft, though for commercial flights it's 65. In the United States it's unusual for a pilot to be 78.

The extremely high speeds at which Learjets can fly — close to the speed of sound — make them especially challenging to fly, pilots and safety experts said.

"These aircraft require an awful lot of skill to fly and don't leave a lot of margin for error," said Lee Collins, a cargo airline pilot and executive vice president of the Coalition of Airline Pilot Associations in Washington.

He said that in situations in which a pilot loses control of an aircraft, the plane could "get into a high-speed dive and inadvertently go through the speed of sound." Collins said.

One possible cause for a nose dive like the one described by Mexican officials would be a drastic failure of the flight controls — the ailerons, elevators and stabilizers, said former NTSB board member John Goglia, an aviation safety expert.

"High performance airplanes by their nature have issues," Goglia said. "The airplane flies faster than the human mind (can keep up) sometimes. ... It takes a lot of skill to stay in front of that airplane."

Mexican authorities were performing DNA tests Tuesday on remains believed to belong to Rivera and the others killed when her plane went down in northern Mexico early Sunday morning.

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Investigators said it would take days to piece together the wreckage of the plane carrying Rivera and find out why it went down.

The U.S. National Transportation Safety Board said it was sending a team to help investigate the crash of the Learjet 25, which disintegrated on impact in the rugged terrain in Nuevo Leon state in northern Mexico.

Human remains found in the wreckage were moved to a hospital in Monterrey, the closest major city to the crash, and Rivera's brother Lupillo was driven past a crowd of reporters to the area where the remains were being kept. He did not speak to the press.

Mexican-American singer Jenni Rivera dies at 43 in plane crash

A state official, speaking on condition of anonymity because of the ongoing investigation, said investigators were testing DNA from the remains in order to provide families with definitive confirmation of the deaths of their loved ones.

"We're in the process of picking up the fragments and we have to find all the parts," Argudin told reporters on Monday. "Depending on weather conditions it would take us at least 10 days to have a first report and many more days to have a report by experts."

In an interview on Radio Formula, Alejandro Argudin, head of Mexico's civil aviation agency, said Mexican investigators weren't sure yet if the Learjet had been equipped with flight data recorders. He also said there had been no emergency call from the plane before the crash. In the U.S., the plane would not have been required to have a flight data recorder or a cockpit voice recorder.

Fans of Rivera, who sold 15 million records and was loved on both sides of the border for her down-to-earth style and songs about heartbreak and overcoming pain, put up shrines to her with burning candles, flowers and photographs in cities from Hermosillo, Mexico to Los Angeles.

Some Spanish-language radio stations played her songs nonstop.

A brother, Juan Rivera, as well as mother Rosa Saavedra, still held on to hope that she would be found alive.

"I still trust God that perhaps the body isn't hers," Saavedra said in a press conference Tuesday, adding that she could have been kidnapped and another woman was at the crash site. "We're hoping it's not true, that perhaps someone took her and left another woman there."

The 43-year-old California-born Rivera known as the "Diva de la Banda" died as her career peaked. She was perhaps the most successful female singer in grupero, a male-dominated Mexico regional style, and had branched out into acting and reality television.

Besides being a singer, she appeared in the indie film Filly Brown, which was shown at the Sundance Film Festival, and was filming the third season of "I love Jenni," which followed her as she shared special moments with her children and as she toured through Mexico and the United States.

The Learjet 25, number N345MC, with Rivera aboard was en route from Monterrey to Toluca, outside Mexico City, when it was reported missing about 10 minutes after takeoff.

Aviation website FlightAware.com shows that the plane flew from Houston to Toluca on August 31 and had not returned to the U.S. since then. Ruiz said Mexican officials are investigating why the U.S. plane was carrying passengers between two Mexican destinations, something that's against regulation. U.S- registered planes can only fly paying passengers internationally into Mexico. He said the plane's owner, Starwood Management of Las Vegas, said Rivera was not renting the jet, but was receiving a free flight because Starwood thought it would promote the aircraft, which was for sale.

That would be allowed under Mexican law, Ruiz said.

"The Civil Aviation Department has instructions to investigate this point specifically," he said, adding that he's also asking other authorities to verify the company's story about why one of its planes was flying between Mexican destinations.

According to the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board, the same plane was substantially damaged in a 2005 landing mishap at Amarillo International Airport in Texas. It hit a runway distance marker after losing directional control. There were four aboard but no injuries. It was registered to a company in Houston, Texas, as the time.

Starwood has been the subject of a lawsuit and investigations, though none so far have centered on the plane that carried Rivera.

Another of its planes was seized in September by the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration in McAllen, Texas.

A federal lawsuit in Nevada filed by QBE Insurance Corp. alleges that a Starwood aircraft was ordered seized by the DEA when it landed in McAllen, Texas, from Mexico on Sept. 12. The New York-based insurer sued in October to rescind coverage for the Hawker 700 jet.

Starwood, in a court filing, acknowledged that the DEA was involved in the seizure of the aircraft.

QBE, based in New York, said the DEA also seized a Starwood-owned Gulfstream G-1159A — insured by another company — when it landed in Tucson from Mexico in February. Starwood said in its court filing that it didn't have enough information to address the allegation.

Nevada secretary of state records list only one Starwood officer — Norma Gonzalez — but QBE alleges that the company is owned and managed by Ed Nunez, who, according to the lawsuit, is also known as Christian Esquino and had a long criminal history.

Starwood rejected the insurer's description of Nunez's role at the company.

According to QBE's lawsuit, Esquino pleaded guilty in federal court in Orlando, Florida, in 1993 to conspiracy to possess and distribute cocaine.

QBE said Esquino also served two years in prison after pleading guilty to conspiracy to commit fraud involving an aircraft in Southern California in 2004. QBE said Esquino's attorney stated in court back then that his client had been under investigation by the DEA for more than a year.

Starwood said in its court filing that it didn't have enough information to address either the Florida or Southern California case against Esquino.

George Crow, an attorney for Starwood, did not immediately respond to phone and email messages left after business hours Monday.

 

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Discuss this post

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Comment author avatarmike-2598123Expand Comment Comment collapsed by the community

The Pilot had a mexican pilots license ! this is as good as a polish joke !

he flew that plane straight into the ground. he was first to the scene of the accident !

The singer's family still thinks she is alive !

  • 2 votes
Reply#1 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:01 AM EST

Jenni should have never flown with that scam charter airline company.

They already have a bunch of lawsuits against them and we caught falsifying maintenance records.

And to boot they put her on a 45 year old LearJet.

All of which Jenni probably never knew.

.

  • 5 votes
#1.1 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:10 AM EST
Comment author avatarURQ196Expand Comment Comment collapsed by the community

splat god's plan, never heard of her before this sorry she died and don't care

  • 2 votes
#1.2 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:35 AM EST

What a terrifying way to go. This was hardly an accident though. Seriously, the pilot was 78? More like suicide via old Mexican guy. Shoulda used some common sense.

  • 4 votes
#1.3 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:57 AM EST

Almost 80-year-old pilot??? I barely trust 'em driving a car.

  • 5 votes
#1.4 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:21 AM EST

Before you complain about mexican pilot license you should know that they are validated in the US as well, how could any Mexican Pilot fly into US if not approved by FAA?

In the time Mexicana was flying many US pilots of Star Alliance (such as United) were partly trained in the mexican flight simulators!

The aircraft is registered in the US, what about US authorities checking the mantainance records?

  • 3 votes
#1.5 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:58 AM EST

Mike-2598123, your whole comment is heartless and inappropriate at best. Stay off of threads where there is a loss of life involved. These families are hurting enough.

  • 4 votes
#1.6 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:25 AM EST

Mike 259:

And there are people around the world who think Elvis is alive.

Denial is part of the grieving process. Speaking from personal experience, you go through a period of denial, thinking the authorities got something wrong and your loved ones are all right; then acceptance when you finally see a body/evidence that they really are gone, then anger...there's a whole '12-step' process identified by psychiatrists I recommend you look up.

The fact that you don't know this indicates to me that you have been privileged to get through your life thus far without having lost someone close to you. May you continue to be so fortunate...and should you someday find yourself in this position, may a stranger offer you more compassion than you have thus far shown.

  • 9 votes
#1.7 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:48 AM EST

I don't get in the car with my dad driving and he is 75, how can these people fly with this pilot?

  • 3 votes
#1.8 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:56 AM EST

Sounds like a very Mexican way to die. I see a telenovela in the making as we speak...

  • 1 vote
#1.9 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:08 PM EST

Families will always have hope, but to think that THEY think someone took her and replaced her with someone else's body?/ And yes Amanda some people think Elvis is still alive and James Dean and Jim Morrison....Those people are delusional....

And losing someone close (I have) doesn't make me delusional...it makes me sad and makes me miss them....

  • 1 vote
#1.10 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:40 PM EST

She was a superstar? Never heard of her. Don't listen to Mexican music, but I don't listen to rap, r&b, or country either, and I still recognize names of the superstars.

RIP.

    #1.11 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:19 PM EST

    @Amanda,

    You make a good point about denial in grief. Actually the grief process is 5 steps; they can occur in just about any order, and even repeat themselves: 1. Denial, 2. Bargaining, 3. Anger, 4. Depression, 5. Acceptance. (the 12-step process is for addiction recovery.)

      #1.12 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:32 PM EST

      My Pa used to fly Lear 23's back in the late 60's and took me to college a couple of times in one. They were, and are still, like small fighter planes and take a good deal of skill to pilot. I recall one airshow where we flew over the field at about 300kts then hit the throttle and pulled back on the stick and finally stopped climbing af about 10000 ft. What a blast.

        #1.13 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:36 PM EST
        Reply
        Comment author avatarRoosterboyExpand Comment Comment collapsed by the community

        You better read this comment before the minimum-wage-paid Republican shills in a boiler room in Alabama collapse this comment, like they do with most supposedly "liberal" comments. Drugs were probably an issue.

        • 1 vote
        Reply#2 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:17 AM EST

        Chickenboi, how in the world did a plane crash with a Mexican onboard star make you start thinking of a Alabama water heating room. I thoughtI have read really stupid people make dumb comments, but you have made it to the top. Congratulations.

        • 12 votes
        #2.1 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:15 AM EST

        That comment sounded something like Cogburn would say. I say, I say, Rooster Cogburn that is.

        • 1 vote
        #2.2 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:08 AM EST

        Roosterboy:

        On Newsvine, comments are collapsed when the majority of those looking at your post disagree with it or the sentiments expressed in it or the language with which you've chosen to express yourself.

        Instead of talking to you they will simply vote down your post as 'holding nothing of value to add to the conversation' and after enough of these votes your post will be collapsed.

        Articles with large numbers of collapsed posts attract the attention of Newsvine moderators who then look at each collapsed comment and choose to either leave it collapsed or restore it if they decide that the material in the post is on-topic and appropriate.

        I will be voting your post down as having nothing of value to add to this conversation.

        • 8 votes
        #2.3 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:56 AM EST

        Roosterboy you get collapsed all the time because you're nothing more than a stupid punk internet troll that has nothing intelligent to contribute. Your feeble attempts at putting political spins on EVERYTHING is unimpressive and makes you stand out as the foolish idiot that you are.

        • 7 votes
        #2.4 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:37 AM EST

        Well said, Jacob007 !!

        • 3 votes
        #2.5 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:56 PM EST

        I would personally not feel comfortable flying with a 78 year old pilot. At that age reflexes, awareness of one's surroundings, and ability to process information are substanially reduced. IMHO, 60-65 should be the age limit for flying commercial aircraft.

          #2.6 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:59 PM EST

          Amanda-2017567, excellent way to analyze and respond to Roosterboy's comments. Totally agree with you !!

            #2.7 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:59 PM EST

            Basil - it is...

              #2.8 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:38 PM EST
              Reply

              "I still trust God that perhaps the body isn't hers," Saavedra said in a press conference Tuesday, adding that she could have been kidnapped and another woman was at the crash site. "We're hoping it's not true, that perhaps someone took her and left another woman there."

              What an idiotic and heartless comment. She wishes somebody else's mother/daughter/sister died in the crash instead?

              • 15 votes
              Reply#3 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:25 AM EST

              Sorry 619er, I didn't see your comment before I posted. But yes, you hit the mark. Precisely.

              • 3 votes
              #3.1 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:15 AM EST

              Denial is not just a river in Egypt. When such a disaster strikes, sometimes the only way to maintain sanity is to wish that you were not involved, and any other scenario would be acceptable. It's terrible, but it's true.

              I seriously doubt that the actual cause of the crash will be discovered. Since the aircraft crashed in such a steep incline, and at such a speed, most of the wreckage will be too obliterated and defy description. I don't know if such small jets have a black box; but again, it may not have survived the crash either. We may never know the full details.

              Many condolences to all of the family and friends of the lost. This is a terrible tragedy. Please accept my deepest sympathies.

              • 3 votes
              #3.2 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:32 AM EST

              Have a heart. The family are in denial. These thoughts on their part are the opposite of rational.

              • 1 vote
              #3.3 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:01 PM EST
              Reply

              I know grief challenges anyone to remain lucid, but what is it with people of faith? The mother is praying to her god that the body isn't her daughter's? I dare this person to tell that to the victim's family. "I was basically praying God killed your daughter, not mine."

              Just another day in the wacky world of faith.

              • 9 votes
              Reply#4 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:11 AM EST

              I'm not a Bible thumper either, but you really mean to tell me that you wouldn't prefer someone else's daughter to be killed in a plane crash, rather than your own? That's cold, Atheist. Does your daughter know you feel this way?

              • 3 votes
              #4.1 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:04 AM EST

              Have a heart. The family are in denial. These thoughts on their part are the opposite of rational.

                #4.2 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:00 PM EST
                Reply

                Hey Atheist, the day you die, youre going to remember your words, because God is going to remind you.. If Im wrong, nothing happens, if youre wrong, youre in TROUBLE.. Think of it that way. Maybe you should consider a long term insurance policy on your lack of faith.. I see the evidence of God, your ignorance couldnt possibly be an excuse for me to deny his existence. I cant humor you, or feel sorry for you, because you deny the simple existence of a higher being over the unbelievable odds that we just managed to evolve out of some sludge and grew legs.. LOL.. I can only LAUGH at you. Im supposed to have sympathy for you, but its too hard when you openly mock the existence of my God. Remember, the moment your last breath is gone, THEN you will know.

                  Reply#5 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:54 AM EST
                  Comment author avatara little levityExpand Comment Comment collapsed by the community

                  Stick your god, and your jesus christ up your ass!

                  • 6 votes
                  #5.1 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:11 AM EST

                  Rob, I doubt your threats are in line with the TOU. Nevertheless, Pascal's Wager is a ridiculous reason to believe in the supernatural. But thanks for trying.

                  PS, you are aware that I only deny one more god than you, right?

                  Merry Xmas!

                  • 5 votes
                  #5.2 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:18 AM EST

                  @ Rob, Atheist will request a priest to be present at his death bed...to save his sole...A little late buddy.

                  Just like all those prisoners converting from crime to religion.

                  God knows the truth and he and only he can decide.

                  Merry CHRISTmas and God Bless

                  • 1 vote
                  #5.3 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:47 AM EST

                  Actually, I would want a shoemaker at my deathbed, to save my sole. That's assuming the uppers are still good.

                  • 8 votes
                  #5.4 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:53 AM EST

                  No. 7 the correct spelling is soul not sole!!

                  • 1 vote
                  #5.5 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:34 AM EST

                  It might be just me, but I would want a fishmonger to save my sole.

                  • 2 votes
                  #5.6 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:04 PM EST

                  Mymom--LOL!!

                    #5.7 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:49 PM EST
                    Reply

                    The fall from 28,000 feet at 621 MPH would take almost 30 seconds. That would be be terrifying.like Bill Cosby said "If I was in a elevator falling 6 feet before it hit the ground I would jump up in the air. It might not work,there may be 6 bodies crumpled on the floor and one head sticking out the top, but they would say lord he sure did try."

                    • 3 votes
                    Reply#6 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:26 AM EST

                    78?? 78 years olds should not be driving cars let alone flying airplanes!

                    • 2 votes
                    Reply#7 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:13 AM EST

                    My mother is 83, and she still drives. You'd better stay out of her way, too. (BTW, she's never had an accident in her life.)

                    • 4 votes
                    #7.1 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:34 AM EST

                    If she drives long enough at her age she will - and who knows who'll she will take with her.

                    • 3 votes
                    #7.2 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:02 AM EST

                    I don't know Leroy and Bob..I commute form Baltimore, through DC to Fairfax VA daily and find that the 20-40 something males and females in large trucks or souped up cars can't drive nearly as well as the 78 yr old man or woman. Eventually they (the 20-40 somethings) will have an accident and I wonder who they will take with them.

                    • 7 votes
                    #7.3 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:12 AM EST

                    I ride Centuries with a 79-year-old. And his mind is as sharp as his body. I'd be careful about mindless generalizations. I'd say you're right about some of them, but a lot deserve that right.

                    • 5 votes
                    #7.4 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:21 AM EST

                    I'm pushing 60, and the only accident I've ever had was in a parking lot when someone hit me. They weren't looking where they were going.

                    An accident can happen anywhere at anytime with any age group. Blaming the age of the pilot for the crash is just a supposition on anyone's part; however, please remember that Capt. Sully also crashed. He did it well and spectacularly into the Hudson, but it was still a crash. He was very, very lucky. He'd be the first to tell you that. Skill only goes so far.

                    Who knows what happened on this Lear? I can think of about a hundred things, and we are still on numbers one and two.

                    • 3 votes
                    #7.5 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:04 AM EST

                    My dad is 83, don't think he's ever had an accident in his life. The issue here is that the maintenance logs for the plane were falsified, at least that is what I read on another site. I don't care how old or young a pilot is, but putting his passengers at risk was sheer negligence on his part and would have resulted in injuries or death of his passengers, regardless of his own age. Considering the plane's age (43 years old) and its previous issues when it had an accident in 2005, it doesn't come as a big surprise. I thought Learjets were known for issues and that's why not many of them fly anymore?

                    I read that the pilot had ties to the drug world, so if the plane had its proper maintenance, maybe sabotage could have had something to do with the accident.

                      #7.6 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:34 PM EST

                      It's not so much physical ability but a mind that is with it. My father started going through stop signs once in awhile without even realizing it in his late 60s. At 72 he got lost, drove around all day, and had to call mom to find out where they lived. That was when we took his license away!

                        #7.7 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:23 PM EST
                        Reply

                        sin45=a/??, hope this won't show up on my trig final.....

                        • 1 vote
                        Reply#8 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:11 AM EST

                        sin 45 = 1/(square root of 2)

                        • 1 vote
                        #8.1 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:44 PM EST
                        Reply

                        600 miles per hour.

                        Well one good thing about that is that other than the fear they might have felt they never would have felt anything during impact.

                        Nerve transmissions travel around 200 mph.

                        • 1 vote
                        Reply#9 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:32 AM EST

                        How very tragic to have died with still so much life ahead and leave her children motherless. It seems once more, a wonderful musical talent in the Hispanic community has been lost too soon. This reminds me of Selena Quintanilla-Pérez, who was murdered in 1995. A week after the tenth anniversary of her death, a tribute concert of her songs in Spanish became the most watched show in American history.

                        All too often, people become more appreciated after death, then in life.It seems to be human nature for folks to take for granted what they have, until it is gone. Rarely does one get a second chance, especially in life or death situations.Perhaps Rivera will become more famous as well.I hope her family will find comfort in her music she has left behind, and all those who loved her as well. May all those killed rest in peace. Their loved ones receive strength in the coming days to move forward.

                        • 2 votes
                        Reply#10 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:50 AM EST

                        Selena was murdered by one of her own people, the president of her fan club who had been embezzling money from it, when Selena fired her and demanded she turn over financial records.

                        Everyone associated with this Lear jet appears to be Mexican and associated in some way with the drug trade or accused of being associated with the drug trade.

                        It would indeed be tragic to find out that her managers placed her in harm's way for a slice of profit.

                        • 1 vote
                        #10.1 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:39 AM EST

                        Wonderful sentiments. I'm sure her family appreciates them.

                        She was not just a musical talent, she was also an entrepreneur and activist. Born in Long Beach, CA, she was still in her teens when she got pregnant with her first child in 1985, but took responsibility, got married to the child's father, raised her children and finished school. Then she found out that her husband was molesting her daughter and she called the police and turned him in herself, afterward becoming an outspoken activist against domestic violence and child abuse--she became the spokeswoman for the National Coalition Against Domestic Violence. The Los Angeles City Council named Aug 6 'Jenni Rivera Day' in 2010 for her community involvement and charity work.

                        She has her own clothing line, fragrance line, real estate business, and a nonprofit foundation for victims of domestic violence (The Jenni Rivera Love Foundation.) Her songs, while containing some of the themes from pop culture today, also contains songs about social awareness issues and strong religious sentiment. And at the time of this crash she was on her way to Mexico to guest judge on 'The Voice...Mexico'.

                        She was a complex, multi-faceted person who did a lot of good and touched a lot of lives, and she will undoubtedly be missed by many, many people.

                        • 1 vote
                        #10.2 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:58 AM EST

                        @Amanda-2017567

                        Thank you for the brief but enlightening background information about Jenni River's accomplishments and for offering a clearer vision of who she was and what drove her. There is so much negativity on these threads anymore that is getting sickening. She appears to have been a blessing to many thousands of followers and passions such as hers tend to live on and on. Her family and closest friends must be devastated. I can only offer my deepest sympathy and hope they can find comfort in the legacy that she leaves. At this point in time I prefer to focus on her and the families of all those on that aircraft. The accusations and negative remarks are perhaps for another time. I hope all of our love and comfort will come forth first and foremost in this most horrific and tragic event..

                        • 1 vote
                        #10.3 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:47 PM EST

                        screminmimi, you said:

                        Everyone associated with this Lear jet appears to be Mexican

                        How's that? This was an american Lear Jet owned by an american company... They do seem to be involved in the drug trade though.

                          #10.4 - Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:18 AM EST
                          Reply

                          The jet in question had already crashed once before. Of course, it could not have crashed very badly, but any crash necessitates a complete airframe teardown and rebuild -- in the US, anyway. It will never be known what caused the crash, because Mexico has no NTSB or FAA to investigate. The only good news is that, unless the plane came apart on the way down, nobody on board felt anything, since it was over in a milisecond or less.

                            Reply#11 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:45 AM EST

                            If the plane hit nose first at that speed I am surprised there was anything left to actually "put together"; they will usually completely disintegrate (thinking air force jets that have hit nose first into mountains or into the ground).

                            As for Rivera's mother..can certainly understand the wish but the reality is going to hit much harder when it comes if she, (and if the family allows her to), keep(s) up that kind of hope.

                              Reply#12 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:08 AM EST

                              Denial is a part of the grieving process. I went though this when I learned my parents died in a car crash--for a couple off days I went through this period of hoping the cops had the wrong car, or read the plate wrong, and Dad and Mom were going to walk in the door whole and hearty.

                                #12.1 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:38 AM EST
                                Reply

                                99 out of every 100 articles posted on CNN's "Latino in America" discusses affairs concerning illegal immigrants, specifically, of Mexican origin. This is increasingly boring and betrays journalistic unpreparedness. There are very many Latinos in "Murrica" that are neither illegal, nor of direct Mexican descent, so please CNN writers, either go to your local high school media center and bone up on the history of Latinos in the United States, hire out help from other news agencies or change the title of the story board to "Undocumented Mexicans in the U.S."

                                • 1 vote
                                Reply#13 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:48 AM EST

                                she looked a bit heavy i wonder if that may have contributed to the accident. if she had ran from the back of the plane towards the front without first warning the 90 year old pilot i could see how the plane could have went into a nosedive.

                                  Reply#14 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:32 AM EST

                                  She was quite heavy and weight is a huge factor in small plane crashes.

                                    #14.1 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:35 PM EST

                                    Absolutely!

                                    She was a big old fat girl.

                                      #14.2 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:58 PM EST
                                      Reply

                                      Was God his copilot?

                                      • 1 vote
                                      Reply#15 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:56 AM EST

                                      Planes tend to crash in 'terrible' ways. That goes with being in a plane. I'll take a terrible crash over a not so terrible crash any day! Very few people just walk away from a plane crash.

                                        Reply#16 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:11 AM EST

                                        Pretty sure most planes that crash hit with a terrible impact

                                          Reply#17 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:54 AM EST
                                          gcxzsdrtDeleted

                                          Now she was a "superstar"? I took a poll here at the office, and not a single person has ever heard of her. There were "six others" that died, but I guess they don't matter as much?

                                            Reply#19 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:50 PM EST

                                            Perhaps someone kidnapped her and left another woman there? Okay...

                                              Reply#20 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:04 PM EST

                                              Not trying to be morbid, BUT, when a plane nose dives from the high up, do the passengers pass out before they actually hit the ground? One would hope so, so that they don't experience fear or pain.

                                                Reply#21 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:23 PM EST

                                                I don't believe they do pass out. I think they all suffered horribly.

                                                  #21.1 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:34 PM EST

                                                  They probably experienced "low G's" along with nausea and things floating around in the cabin, including anyone not strapped in their seat. Approach to the ground would have been so fast they may not have realized their doom. Impact and death would have been simultaneous and instantaneous.

                                                  • 1 vote
                                                  #21.2 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:49 PM EST
                                                  Reply

                                                  What a horrible way to die. Those last minutes of the nose dive must have been so terrible. God Bless those poor people

                                                    Reply#22 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:31 PM EST

                                                    At that speed, 600 mph, and assuming constant speed (which is not the case, as acceleration would continue until terminal velocity) the nose dive would have only been around 30 seconds from 28,000 feet to impact.

                                                    (600 mph*5280 feet/mile)= (3,168,000 feet/hour), or (880 feet/sec), and 28,000 feet/880fps = ~32 seconds.

                                                      #22.1 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:08 PM EST

                                                      And for those of you who think they had physical suffering, here is a thought. If the plane was 88 ft long and if the tail did not slow down on impact, the total time from nose impact to tail impact would be less than 0.1 second...about the time to blink.

                                                        #22.2 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:46 PM EST
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                                                        I have never heard of this woman. After this incident dies, I will probably never hear about her again.

                                                          Reply#23 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:55 PM EST

                                                          What a MESS. Mexico what a @!$%# hole.

                                                            Reply#24 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:19 PM EST

                                                            Plane crashes happen in all countries. Even in the USA. Does that make us a @!$%#hole? Thanks for being so understanding and objective.

                                                              #24.1 - Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:15 PM EST
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                                                              I'm curious if they had a cabin pressure issue (like Payne Stewart's jet) that caused everyone to pass out without realizing it was happening and then the pilot just slumped over onto the control column and pushed the nose over, resulting in the 28,000 foot dive? As a LearJet 35 pilot, I will be curious to read the final accident report (if it comes out) because there are no doors blocking passenger access to the cockpit (you just climb right in the seat...either of them), and I would imagine that someone, even if they never flew a day in their life, would try to correct an issue like a nose dive if the old pilot had a massive heart attack or something. And I'm also curious to see if there was a second pilot at all (two seats with identical controls in these jets)? If there was, I would either suspect a pressure issue in the cabin (a slow and insidious one that they didn't notice, not a rapid one...at 28,000 feet, a rapid decompression really doesn't happen all that rapidly, unless the oxygen system was shot as well...and then that's just a bad day altogether). Either that or a horrific malfunction with the flight controls like an aeleron, elevator, or rudder cable snapping. A T-tail aircraft is not something you want to get into an uncontrolled spin. Oh, and just to address some of the quotes in the article from the "experts"...the LearJet flies like a dream; very smooth and responsive and easy to control...at 28,000 feet, it is not difficult at all to stay "ahead of the jet" if you are a trained pilot, especially if you have the autopilot on (you can pretty much read a book and relax up there on autopilot)...flying a "fast jet" only gets "busy" in the terminal areas (flying in the area just to and from an airport) where you have lots of different altitude and direction changes possibly in a very small distance at speeds around 200 knots (depending on the aircraft and the airport you are flying into or out of)...and that is why you typically have a copilot on these aircraft, so they can handle the radio calls, navigation, and instrument/aircraft changes (like getting the landing gear up or down and calling out airspeeds and altitudes). I would take flying a LearJet at 400 knots any day over driving a car on the I-495 beltway in DC.

                                                              Regardless, it's a terrible situation all around. Feel bad for everyone affected.

                                                              • 2 votes
                                                              Reply#25 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:52 PM EST

                                                              Excellent perspective and information, jerseyboi. I'm assuming the reference in the article to "600 mpH" is terminal velocity, and not necessarily the speed at which control was lost. In any case, wouldn't a sudden stall, loss of CS, or other malfunction causing an unrecoverable spin or the so-called "nose dive" allow perhaps as little as 30 to 60 seconds from 28,000' to ground? Your opinion, as a pilot?

                                                              • 1 vote
                                                              #25.1 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:20 PM EST
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                                                              If I'd been on that plane I would have crawled out on the wing (keeping my luggage with me) and waited until we were just about at the ground. Then I would have reached out & grabbed a tree branch as it went by (takes some coordination at 600 mph but I know kung fu). Then I would have swung myself around a couple of times & done a triple back flip, landing gently on the ground, on my feet.

                                                              So if I can do that why are all you people dissing her family for thinking maybe she's still alive?

                                                              • 1 vote
                                                              Reply#26 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:27 PM EST

                                                              Jackass.

                                                              • 3 votes
                                                              #26.1 - Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:43 PM EST
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