During a hearing in London's Coroner's Court today, details were revealed about the cause of death of nurse Jacintha Saldanha shortly after she took a prank phone call to the Duchess of Cambridge, including that she left three handwritten notes. NBC's Keir Simmons reports.
Updated at 6:20 a.m. ET: LONDON — The nurse duped by two Australian radio show hosts into putting through a prank call to the hospital ward of the pregnant Duchess of Cambridge was found hanging by a scarf from a wardrobe, an official said Thursday.
Jacintha Saldanha, 46, was found by a colleague and a member of security staff at King Edward VII’s Hospital in the British capital on Friday, coroner's officer Lynda Martindill told a formal hearing into the circumstances of her death called an inquest.
Police detective chief inspector James Harman told the hearing that the married mother-of-two had injuries to her wrists.
He also said that three handwritten notes were found, two at the scene and one among her belongings.
As well as examining the notes, Harman said police were interviewing her friends, family and colleagues and looking at emails and phone calls to establish what led to her death, The Associated Press reported.

AFP - Getty Images
Nurse Jacintha Saldanha was found dead days after being hoaxed by an Australian radio show.
At the brief hearing, Coroner Fiona Wilcox opened and then adjourned the inquest until March 26 without making a ruling. Police have previously described the death as "unexplained."
Nurse who was duped by prank call about Duchess Kate found dead
Saldanha put the hoax call through to a colleague who disclosed details of the care given to Kate, who was being treated for acute morning sickness at the hospital.
The prank call by Sydney radio station 2Day FM made headlines around the world, as did news that Saldanha had died.
Southern Cross Austereo, the station’s parent company, has apologized for the stunt and said on Tuesday it would donate its advertising revenue until the end of the year to a fund for Saldanha's family, with a minimum contribution of about $525,000.
Royal prank radio station to pay $525,000 to family of dead nurse
However, British lawmaker Keith Vaz told Reuters that he had written to Southern Cross to express his dissatisfaction.

Neil Hall / Reuters
Tributes to nurse Jacintha Saldanha are seen outside the nurses' accommodation near the King Edward VII's Hospital in London on Tuesday.
"There has been no written apology, no request for a meeting with the family and no attempt to travel to the United Kingdom to express contrition," Vaz wrote in a letter to Southern Cross chief executive Rhys Holleran that he released to the media.
"I would be grateful if you could let me know how you arrived at this figure and why you think this adequately deals with this serious and important issue," Vaz wrote.
DJs speak out, say they're 'heartbroken' over death of nurse in royal hoax call
Southern Cross and its two DJs, Mel Greig and Michael Christian, have faced a barrage of criticism.
Greig and Christian have both been suspended and their show has been scrapped.
The Associated Press and Reuters contributed to this report.
Follow NBC News' Keir Simmons on Twitter.
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So goes....
I don't understand why she would take her life over something like that. It was no big deal.
She was probably already depressed & maybe suicidal; this last ordeal was most likely, the final straw to the proverbial camel's back.
Enough already. I am so beyond tired of the DJ bashing on this tragedy. The DJs pulled a prank that MANY others have attempted numerous times. Unfortunately, one of the people at the other end of the line was obviously unbalanced and extremely gullible. Have you listened to the call? How could ANY rational person take the call seriously? To take your life over this indicates that there was something more going on. This woman wasn't even the one that gave information out...all she did was transfer the call. I would suggest that something was said to her by the nurse that DID give out information that set this poor woman off. To be blunt..the DJs did not write the suicide notes...the DJs did not force her to kill herself. That was something she did to herself without thought or care for what she was doing to her family. In this instance...it was a selfish act. As for the hospital...they need to stop bashing the DJs and the radio station. They are deflecting because THEY were embarrased that their security (or obvious lack of such) was so non-existent. THis call should never have gotten through. The better question everyone should be asking is how that happened.
The nurse probably wasn't unstable. She comes from a different culture, where bringing "shame to the family" is a good reason to kill yourself, or kill a family member over. She might have had death threats from her own family.
It was joke and some one kills themselves over a simple joke. Why the uproar? All the people that prob killed themselves over the financial crap and no one says anything. the woman was not all there in the head.
Lorielle Sisson......you said:
Take a census of the folks on Newsvine. There are many who are gullible, highly emotional, and at various stages of irrationality. The world is full of such people.
Anyone contemplating such a prank should always consider the unintended consequences.
That British culture so (absurdly) idolizes royalty is another factor in this tragedy. It would not have happened (for several reasons) if the patient had been a mere "commoner".
Wow, a hell of a lot of "blame the victim" here. Do any of you know the whole story as has been released? This poor woman was one of two nurses fooled, so the DJ's did a damn good job of impersonation; she would have had her life's work forever ruined (while I don't get it, the English put a lot of importance into the royals, and as one of the few medical professionals allowed to treat a member of the royal family, she was at the top of her profession), and her reputation forever stained in a society that values reputation far more highly than people here in the US. She need not have been unstable before hand for these factors to weigh upon he decision making ability. Most people in England would have reacted so negatively toward her for giving out info on the royals, she would have been a societal pariah and would never be able to find a new job if the hospital let her go.
For a culture like that of the English, this was too much to handle. Simple as that. As to the DJs, as members of the Commonwealth, they know full well how most people in the UK would react and still did the prank anyway. This wasn't something like Howard Stern pulling a prank on someone here in the US. It was pulling a prank on someone who held it a privileged to be entrusted to care for the royals. As noted, this is one of the highest honors a health professional in England can hold. The DJs didn't care what the fallout would be, they just wanted a few chuckles at the expense of others, even knowing how serious those people take their position.
As to the radio station, they played the pre-recorded (yes it wasn't live) prank call and then tried to distance themselves as though they didn't know about it. BS. Now they are offering the family $525,000, a mere £325601.85 for the life of a wife, mother and daughter? They know they are going to be hit hard by the Australian and UK courts, and this is their best attempt to aid the family? Too little, too late. Sorry, i only see guilty parties working at the radio station and its parent company, from the directly guilty (the DJs) to the complicit in all of upper management starting with the show's producer on up. Depending upon the final findings of the inquest, the DJ's and others could face (and should) criminal charges. If Don Imus called a McDonald's and ordered 2000 cheeseburgers (as he did in the 1980's), that is a prank.
Calling someone and fooling two different people into thinking you are the queen and the heir, knowing that if they believe you their lives and careers would be irreparably harmed take it from prank to outright maliciousness. While I find the English odd for many things, especially their reverence for the royals, the fact is they do, and these DJs knew it and didn't care. Total disregard for the consequences and one of the women killing themselves can be prosecuted in many States here in the US. No laughing matter.
Oh Celtic, put a sock in it! The only person responsible for suicide is the person committing it.
Oh, cut the dramatic crap!
This woman obviously had some deeper issues to selfishly take her own life, leaving behind a husband and two children. The prank was innocent enough and while it may not have helped matters, no rational person would take themself out over a stupid thing like this. If anything they would laugh about it. Besides, radio stations are notorious for pulling pranks like these and the staff on board at the hospital should have realized that such calls could come through to the nurses station and been prepared anyway.
Suicide is a permanet solution to a temporary problem.
Celtic, this thread just goes to show how self-centered and boorish we Americans are. Thanks for your well written response.
The DJ's should be extradited and stand trial for impersonating the Queen and Duke.
Mary Jones-1616541
This woman was from India. A lot of cultures, from this area of the world, believe in death before dishonor. Just like the Japanese soldiers during world war 2. Most of these soldiers chose death over the dishonor of surrendering. This woman may have thought, that by falling for this prank, she had dishonored her family, and she took the only action that she felt was available to her.
Bob why don't you just speak for yourself instead of speaking for "we Americans"....
happy2008, I'm in complete agreement with you. I think this suicide wasn't due to being unbalanced but because she felt so ashamed of her actions. I'm sure she felt she had brought dishonor to herself, her family, her co-workers and the royal family. She probably felt that this was her only option and to make right by her mistake.
It's sad but true that such feelings still exist in our modern world. We all make mistakes and have to deal with them and take responsibility for them, but suicide is not the way.
Didn't some guy commit suicide because Obama got reelected? WTF???? MY feelings are if you decide to kill yourself, put it off for a year. If you still feel like it, OK..go for it. But if after that year you realize it would have been a mistake....you're still around and not worm food.
I knew a guy who killed himself over a girl. Well....she didn't care about you so why is she worth YOUR LIFE. She's not.....she doesn't CARE ABOUT YOU. MOVE ON.
@Celtic
She didnt give the information out, she just forwarded along the call...how does this stain her reputation? The nurse who actually gave out the information did not kill herself. All this talk about honor...what is dishonorable about forwarding along a call. Pranks go on all the time and this never happens. Look at all the TV shows that go on as top rated that pull pranks on people. While this is a tragedy, I dont think the DJ's should be the focal point of everyones ire.
I believe the nurse upset was violation of HIPPA (Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act). It protects privacy and security of protected health information by healthcare providers. The HIPAA Security Rule requires covered entities to implement policies and procedures to ensure the confidentiality, integrity, and availability of PHI. This does not allow you to give out any information on any person under the care of said provider. In this case it was the hospital.
England has a similar hospital policy and procedure in place. They call theirs the Data Protection Act. In the USA no information can be provided over the phone, to anyone. In England they can provide the condition of a loved one to close family members. However, if it is not a close family member, they would not be allowed to provide them any information.
When HIPAA polices are violated, mistreatment of this information carries administrative, civil and criminal penalties.
http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/physician-resources/solutions-managing-your-practice/coding-billing-insurance/hipaahealth-insurance-portability-accountability-act/hipaa-violations-enforcement.page
This was a good nurse, according to the hospital, and her co-workers. This nurse was doing her job. The betrayal she must have felt when she found out it was a prank and it played over and over on the radio. It would have been bad enough even if it were just common folks, but it wasn't. It was the Royals.
RIP. Jacintha. Thoughts and condolences to your family.
^ March 26, 2013, really?
LOL...Spoken like a true politician......
CELTIC - BEST AND MOST ACCURATE POST PLACED ON ALL FOUR ARTICLES HERE AT MSNBC!!!
Many if the posts here are so accurate because they deal directly with the organizational cuture, the persons relative culture, and how these cultures shape decision making. Traveling to England many times and having many Brit friends, your comment on the respect and national pride towards the Royals is so accurate. Tweets comment is so on target as well. Many on all of these posts speak with no rational except their narrow minded viewpoint and very little background on where these people come from.
Most of these comments with regards to the tragedy come from people who have probably never stepped foot out their little towns and always speak to everyone else as though they have this great depth and are so well traveled.
American ideals, values and morals have changed so dramatically that most people refuse to accept all the facts and will only pull from a story what they want to use to support their narrow viewpoint. Celtics posts was not only accurate but there is more fact that he left out probably because to give these little minded fools more would only add further to their confusion.
Fact: Australian law makes it a minimum sentence of 5 years and a Felony for any act by any media to tape record an individual and release that tape recording to the public without:
A their knowledge
B. their permission
C. written affidavit clearly allowing the release with all parties involved as signatures.
Regardless of whether the few want to believe the D.J.'s actions are the root cause of the resulting circumstance, laws make people responsible for their actions especially people, like a few on this post who whish to remain totally unaccountable for an act like this of such a serious nature.
Great thing is the Media knows how big this train is coming at them and their pitiful little $525,00 to shut the family up will do very little.
Two additional facts. The D.J's continued on after the event and played the tape, laughing at the nurse and calling her names. There are reports that this activity continued even after the were aware of the death. I'm sure we will all get the timeline at the investigation matures.
Second, the stations attorneys, who are very knowledgeable about Australian law, listened to the tape, knew there were no permissions granted from the participants, and still vetted the tapes approval for programming. Guess a couple dirtbag attorneys may be see the "pokey" from a new light as well.
Renee - Northern CA......you said:
HIPAA is peculiar to the United States. The British may have their own version. But, its specifics may be quite dissimilar to our HIPAA.
Celtic is a complete idiot, there isn't a state in the US here thse DJs would be prosecuted, although there would be a few weak minded idiots such as yourself who would whine. As you already are of course.
The chief is even a bigger idiot though apparently.
It's hard to comment on this article when officials, who apparently knew from the beginning why this woman killed herself and how--she left 3 notes and was found hanging--refuse to release any details of the matter. In fact, they haven't officially said this was a suicide, referring to it cryptically as "unexplained."
We are all different. Just because you would blow off such a prank doesn't mean others would or that they could. Sure, the woman might have been already depressed and this tipped her over. She was an ordinary person not used to her mistakes being publicized by the press from all over the world, shamed and embarassed before the entire planet. Let's not forget the young man who threw himself off a bridge because his roommate webcamed his intimacy with another man and put it on the internet. Some people are just more fragile than others and react badly to abuse.
As for the dj's, they have a history of mean-hearted pranks, their using the homeless as the target of their jokes truly wicked.
Robert - this may not have been a temporary situation. Her reputation was ruined. And although the hospital claimed it was standing by her, they may not have been. She could have lost her career. That is not a temporary situation.
It's hard to say unless you are in their shoes. Americans in general lack class and culture by comparison. People in the British health care system pride themselves highly. They had an entire section of the Olympics ceremony just dedicated to it. And to add their royalty, whether rightly/wrongly, yet another thing they pride themselves on. Many cultures around the world value death before dishonor. Who’s to say it’s wrong?
Imagine if while doing your job that you love, you shamed your country and president. And that shame is now worldwide and part of history. And you know that shame gets passed down to your kids. It’s a heavy burden. One thing I do know is that actions have consequences. What you might think is a harmless prank might not be interpreted as one.
I don't think it was a suicide at all. I think the royal family's thugs hung her and made it look like a suicide. Don't mess with the Queen or you'll be sleepin with the fishes...see? Harsh, but we're all thinking...yeah...maybe.
happy2008........she was probably 'helped' along the way to make the decision to kill herself and was more than likely 'helped' physically also....good call
What a bunch of baloney. The woman was clearly "punished" by somebody who wanted to make a statement. I am from india and I do not know anybody who commited suicide for bringing shame to family. Heck I dont know anybody who would say there is any shame in putting a wrong call through.
That is typical English baloney. They are the biggest thugs in the world and will remain so. You think empires are built by being nice?
She was stupid enough to fall for the prank and doubled down on "I am Stupid" by killing herself.
Celtic, was right on about this. I said so myself in other postings.
This was not an innocent prank. Attempting to obtain healthcare privacy information when you aren't authorized is a crime. This is a HIPAA violation in the U.S., and what ever the equivalent is in London and other countries. Then to give that information to third parties, like the listeners of a radio show, is also a crime. The penalties to a healthcare organization varies depending on the number of patients affected, and if their was willful disregard to protect the information. My job is health care computer security.
This is no different then someone calling up your company to get them to divulge employees social security numbers, then posting them on the Internet for everyone to see. Is that also a harmless prank an no big deal? What if these DJ's blabbed your medical history that showed you had a fatal disease like HIV, and now everyone, including your insurance company and employer, know about it? No need to get upset about it, right? That information is private between you and your caregiver. Not even your spouse can find out about it unless you give permission. I see staff get fired for divulging patient information every month. Just telling your BFF about some patient will get you fired.
Every single employee is given initial and annual training about this. You have to sign a form stating you are absolutely clear in knowing the law. No can come back saying that didn't know about it. All systems are monitored to ensure no one looks at the medical history of a patient they aren't directly involved in that patients care. You will be fired for just looking up the information on a computer or peeking at a patients folder, even if you are a patient yourself and wanted to look at your own medical information. The health information of al famous people re lagged, so if anyone looks at the information, it automatically alerts managers, who will immediately look to see if you were assigned to that patient. If you aren't, you are shown the door.
Sorry to go on about this, but this is a big huge deal in hospitals and clinics, and they spend huge sums of money to ensure it is kept private. There are very huge penalties from the government, and there are many major hospitals that get them. Most recently was Emory Hospital in Atlanta, that I can recall. Theirs wasn't a big huge deal, as far as they thought, but the government thought otherwise. You can google it and read for yourself.
so, the 'it could have a coincidental death' idiots have their proof....
anybody who says the prank was "no big deal" isn't very connected with the world.... many people take their reputation, integrity, quality of work, discretion etc. very seriously.... she was working at one of the most prestigious hospitals in the world and was humiliated world wide... was taunted by the DJs for days.... had her ability to use discretion in her job called into question for life... for all time she is to be known as the nurse who was too stupid and not trustworthy enough to carry out her job with discretion.
as far as DJ bashing? they deserve it.... they illegally recorded a telephone call.... illegally distributed private health information.... and committed an act that resulted in a death which is technically manslaughter.... when you cause a death, regardless of the circumstance... you don't get to just say "well I thought nothing would happen"....
and to top it off, they taunted her for being so stupid on air, twitter, and in the press
then they put on this fake crying statement... in which I will point out, they didn't apologize, nor admit they did anything wrong.... and finally the station has attempted to buy their way out of it...
there's a lot of people on here thinking that the modern celebrity way of saying 'it's not my fault' and using lawyers to wiggle out of responsibility is the actual way life is lived....
it's not
I hope these DJs end up in prison.... they deserve it.....
The one who knows the truth is dead. The ones who don’t have a clue you can’t shut them up.
BP and oldhamletman...oh man....read the article at least even if you don't read preceding comments other than the ones which agree with what you 'said so yourself'!
The one who committed suicide was NOT..I repeat..WAS NOT the nurse who violated the British version of HIPPA. The one who killed herself was just the person who answered the phone and transferred the call to the REAL NURSE who proceeded to violate the rules of privacy. THAT person has not killed herself yet. And the one who transferred the call and then killed herself was actually of Indian descent, so much for others who say 'it's a British idolization of royalty thing'.
Some people are so eager to get their diatribe out there that they just plain miss the facts.
Hey there LeftRightCenter....your response is about as confusing as your name tag...This didn't happen in American you dumbAs_, and the people involved were all not in America. It would be isolated in America because HIPPA is too strict and the is no health care provider willing to be sued and lose their license to be duped.
You, my friend, are one misguided, "little mind". Again., you , like some here, you open your pie hole before you have any facts. I've went back and researched a few of your posts....sounds more like you open the trap just to get more people talking. Most of your posts have zero substance. Again...get your facts straight. None of this story involves America, or Americans...not one. And if you want to talk about America, cause' it looks like your wasted flesh presides here, then learn the law of the land. Go check out HIPPA! The price all involved pay is far to high for employees to release information illegally!
Love your comment, Lorielle Sisson! Totally agree with you and find it a bit over the top to blame the DJs for anything. This person had already other problems to go so far as to kill herself.
As to the "news" on this, ENOUGH already. Let's move on and let the family come to grips with their mother's death.
Obviously had huge mental problems, because to hang yourself over the DJ prank would make you THE BIGGEST LOSER. So about time the news quit covering this on the front page so as not to be THE BIGGEST LOSERS !
To those out there that think the DJ's and the Radio Station are responsible for this woman's death. I'm going to break this down in a way that I hope you can grasp. If you can't understand this then you should probably not be allowed near any sharp objects.
Bear with me. I'll go slow.
Suppose after her work shift she left to go home, and was so distraught that she was not paying attention, and got herself a speeding ticket.
Would the DJ's, and the Radio Station be accountable for her ticket?
( Hint: Answer NO! )
Now, she goes home, and days later she commits suicide.
And some of you feel that the DJ's and the Radio Station should be held accountable why again?
Because they hurt her feelings?
Because she was embarrassed?
So what you do is put on your big girl panties, laugh it off as being punked, and move on. Period.
I seriously feel worse for the DJ's than I do for this woman. They are being persecuted by mindless twits and she was just a mindless twit to commit suicide over this.
But I do LOVE the fact that the lawyers are already looking for a BIGGER pay-day. Just shows Brittan's are just as classless as us Americans. It's all about the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.
Jeff, if you think the DJ's did nothing wrong, then please post your doctor's name and phone number. Also, let him know I'm calling to get your medical history. This wasn't really a prank. What was their intent? They were actively trying to steal information.
If the president calls you for a favor and you thought it was him, you are going to say no?
yeah these Asians should have learned from the West. she should have killed her spouse and the little kids as well, even if it was something as significant as a layoff or a stock market crash.
Statistically speaking, when a seemingly normal person commits suicide, it's generally not due to one particular event, but rather....that one particular event was simply the "final straw" of many issues that the victim had been enduring. The DJ prank, in retrospect, was really not all that malicious in context, but......to someone who might be currently experiencing considerable emotional issues...... that trivial prank, might very well have pushed her over the edge.
How terribly sad for all concerned....family, friends, and yet, those two DJ's, as well.
Suicide is Painless (M.A.S.H Theme) - she hung herself which takes courage, she did not take anyones life, and the truth nobody is to blame. those that need help need to seek it out and unfortunately (ironically being in the health industry) she did not....
nobody to blame and British lawmaker Keith Vaz is nothing but money hungry animal (typical lawyer)....
peace to you all my friends
Gabbo1
My doctor would not give you crap for info over the phone. Nor would any other competent MD.
It was a prank
It was to get laughs..nothing more.
And if the president calls me he must be the president because I have an unlisted number. But he STILL would have to be able to PROVE to me who he was.
Let me guess, you sent money to a Nigerian prince because he asked you to in an email? I did not send any money to the Prince. I knew there would be people like you that would do enough.
People, in order to save humanity we must immediately BAN APRIL FOOLS DAY!!!!! That is the only way to prevent the tens of thousands of suicides that annually result from the so-called harmless pranks committed by all those ruthless murderers out there, from Aussie DJ's to purveyors of "whoopie" cushions.
What can you say, the woman was trusting. Yes, the DJ's thought it was a prank. It doesn't mean everyone else thinks it was a prank. Also what happens in our country isn't necessarily what happens in some other country. If you had told the doctor that it was ok for your wife to get the medical info, then he accidentally gave it to your ex-wife because she was trying to get an edge in a lawsuit or something. You would blame the ex-wife, yes?
And Jeff, you say you know 100% the doctor wouldn't give the info. Then that should give you even more confidence to post your doc's name/number. The point being is that you are close minded to what you think and not what the world thinks. The DJ's are not accountable, but they are indirectly responsible for what happened.
She left three notes...but they don't report that she blamed the prank for her decision to kill herself.
Why?
Is it possible that it had nothing to do with the prank...but they don't want to release that information now that they've made such a big deal out of it?
No rational person would kill themselves and leave behind children...over a stupid prank. I don't care what culture you come from. This woman obviously had other problems.
She obviously was a nut case. Oh no, I was humiliated, I'll kill myself. Anyone with skin that thin isn't going to make it in this world.
I am sorry the nurse felt the need to commit suicide. I do not blame the DJs. There was likely a lot more going on in her life we are not privy to.
It was a goofy stunt that hurt no one. Before the suicide, I actually thought it was kind of funny. We have to stop taking the royals so seriously. The Royal family was not even upset about the prank.
NotKidding,
With respect, whether Jacintha was "rational" or not is not the issue.
Subjecting someone to world-wide ridicule isn't a "stupid prank", and while I consider her choice a tragic and unnecessary one, I think most people would agree that she'd be alive today if it weren't for what this radio station did. That is the issue.
Making a stupid, naive mistake at work is one thing. Having millions of people watch that mistake over and over again is quite another.
Many believe that "bullying" is a bad example here, but there's one aspect that I believe applies: if a kid commits suicide because of bullying, do we analyze the kid's mental state and blame him or her because they weren't "tough" or had "other problems"?
Of course, bullying is done maliciously and this prank was not. The DJs involved are devastated and it's clear they meant no serious harm. Unfortunately, all that won't bring Jacintha back to her family.
We don't know what Jacintha was thinking or feeling. What we do know is that a private individual was suddenly and unwillingly thrust into the global spotlight, and that light was harsh and unflattering.
As a result, a dedicated nurse made a terrible choice...and while the DJs and radio station weren't directly responsible, their culpability in this can't be ignored, either.
Gabbo1
I could care less what any one else THINKS...the city, the state, the country, or the world.
You think that the DJ's should be held accountable..so that proves what someone thinks does not matter.
Indirectly responsible? You mean how your exhaled CO2 is INDIRECTLY responsible for global warming?
The DJ's were born..that makes them indirectly responsible. Indirectly responsible is another term for 12 degrees of separation.
I get it. really I do. I get that you don't get it.
The DJ's have no legal, moral, or indirect responsibility for her committing suicide. None. Nada. Zip. Goose egg. Zero.
But damn it..someone needs to be blamed and in this day and age of no one taking personal responsibility it may as well be the DJ's.
Shartorius
Please, enlighten us with the DJ's culpability.
Jeff, that's part of the problem. Far too many people don't take responsibility for their actions. AND far too many people don't care about other people. As for global warming, I'm rooting for the disaster. If mankind is the cause, nothing will stop it. If mankind isn't the cause, then it doesn't matter. Even if everyone in the US suddenly cared, it wouldn't matter because India/China/insert many other countries don't. We'll know in another 20 years.
Let's ask this, do you believe she would be alive today if the DJ's never called? Every poll has a large majority thinking they are at least a little to blame.
Jeff N.-1053549,
You use the Scales of Justice as your icon, so you may be an attorney or at least familiar with The Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 (HIPAA). Those are regulations regarding personal medical information and their consumption and dissemination.
In the US, HIPAA rules are strict and compliance is mandatory. Great Britain and Australia also have variant forms of HIPPA. Great Britain also has the UK Data Protection Act.
Under these rules, even *requesting* information you know you're not authorized to have is a violation...to say nothing of publishing that information to unauthorized people. More to the point of this case, even if the request is made with no intention of gaining access to the information, the request is still in violation.
So yes, I believe the word "culpability" is accurate here, even if we ignore the tragic outcome. Strictly speaking, Jacintha was *not* in violation because she didn't divulge any private health-related information. She just transferred the call to another nurse who did.
A friendly tip: I've no doubt you feel strongly about your point of view. I feel strongly about mine. We can share ideas and debate without being snarky or insulting.
@mary jones
can you step outside your own personal and cultural perspective for a moment?
different individuals and those from different cultures have different perspectives on personal honor. she could have been reacting from several different perspectives. the dj's made her look foolish, and her error was exposed for the whole world to see. or perhaps she felt acutely responsible for violating the privacy of the royal family, for some a pretty intimidating infraction. perhaps she is the kind of personality who takes responsibility a bit too personally and just couldn't see clear to be able to forgive herself. maybe she did actually violate hospital privacy policies and felt overwhelmed considering who's privacy she violated. perhaps in her culture this kind of issue is seen as a very significant offense. the possibilities are numerous.
one thing i am sure of, people who take advantage of others "just for a laugh" are not the kind of people i enjoy or respect.
It is absolutely the issue. If she had other problems that led her to commit suicide (and she MUST have had other problems because NO RATIONAL PERSON would kill themselves over a stunt like this) then you can hardly blame the DJ's for her death.
I don't agree that she would be alive today if it weren't for the prank. Three notes...but they don't tell us what they say. Maybe her husband beat her...maybe she got caught doing something awful...maybe she was clinically depressed or diagnosed with a terminal illness....there hasn't been one iota of proof that she killed herself because of the prank.
There was nothing to watch. It was a radio station. Her image wasn't broadcast...just her voice. Very few people would connect the voice to her, specifically...or particularly care which nurse it was.
That's an entirely different scenario. We don't expect children to have the emotional maturity and skills of an adult...and we do expect adults to protect children from harm. That doesn't extend out in the workforce as an adult...there you are on your own.
It was embarrassing....not life threatening. No one knew or cared who she was until she killed herself.
Nor can it be proven. If we can't play silly HARMLESS jokes on one another without fear of legal consequences if a mentally unstable person is inadvertently involved...then say good bye to freedom of speech. Next employers won't be able to fire anyone or give critical reviews in case one of the employees get's depressed and kills themselves. Parents won't be able to discipline their children, teachers won't be able to fail students, and stand up comics will all be on the bread line.
People get pranked all the time. Of course it's embarrassing...but if embarrassment is considered sufficient cause for suicide...it's because there is some other serious problem.
they tricked her into violating a policy that here in the states could get her fired. immediately.
different people hold themselves to standards that perhaps you don't nk. the involvement of royals and world wide persistant exposure and re exposure intensify the situation. the acute emotions could overwhelm someone not as well equipped ego wise as you claim to be...or as smugly equipped with an answer for everything.
In your high school world this might have been a harmless prank but in the world of medicine patient privacy is paramount. No one not even the janitor can ever speak about a patient. You will at minimum get fired no unemployment checks because you were terminated for cause. Before you get your first job you had better grow up because horsing around will also get you fired. Practical jokes and pranks are immature forms of humor that show a total disrespect for the rights of the other on the part of the perpetrator. You assume the other person was created for your amusement. It actually is bullying and I doubt you would really be as cool as you claim if it happened to you.
eh, i don't feel bad for people that kill themselves. I don't care if they were depressed, or shame was brought to them. She wanted to go, let her go. I don't care how "honor" works in Britain or how the "Royal Family" is seen. To me, they are just like any other elitist family really. I don't care how "americans don't have honor" or any other bull like that. I'm sorry but i have other things to worry about becides making a fictional king and queen happy. I don't take jokes too seriously like the people upset at that stupid islam video either. If you can't take a joke, you live wayyy to seriously and it's not my concern to treat you like a baby. This women obviously had issues to even comtemplate the idea and even if she didn't before, she was a little off the rocker to go through with it. The simple fact is it was a joke plain and simple. If it ruined her career that would be greatly upsetting, but not the complete end of the world even in Britain. Seriously some of you on here act so awesome since you have been to britain on vacation and suddenly understand every british person that ever lived! o please. Let her go there are people that WANT to live and struggle everyday.
What an insensitive bunch of know-it-alls. You know nothing about suicide. You do not even know that it was a suicide. The death has been ruled "unexplained". Each of you are in such a rush to publish your opinions first you don't even wait for all the facts. Everybody needs to take a good hard honest look at your true motives in expressing yourself . . . its always about you showing off what you think makes you sound smarter and more clever than others . . . well . . . you aren't smarter . . . you just keep getting more insensitive . . . you aren't clever . . . you just keep getting more and more cruel.
None of you are personally involved in this and yet you speak as though your authority on the subject places you on the scheme.
It was a stupid prank, designed to invade the privacy of a media popular individual and bring more fame to the DJs and generate more advertisement money for the radio station. Who can defend this as a harmless practical joke?
The prank was designed to generate more income while it ridiculed the Queen and violated the Princess's right to privacy. The Princess was in a very serious medical condition with her first pregnancy . . .
What is wrong with you people that you don't understand that there was nothing harmless in what these DJs did? It was mean. It was cruel. It was nasty. It was haughty. It was mercenary. It was illegal. Yeah, that's right. You don't get to behave like a criminal and say it was just a prank. Its just another form of bullying. And the reason you don't get it is because the circumstances of this prank appeal to the bully in you.
Harassment from the media killed the Prince's mother. Is that what the public wants? Another media bullying spree with more deaths?
You are barbaric.
andy, you should get current. it has been ruled suicide. You sound like you may be wrapped a bit too tight. This forum is for sharing our thoughts. If if bothers you so much, you may want to find a different site to cruise.
1. HIPAA caries ZERO weight in England -or-Australia. Zip.
2. Think of Causation . Would a REASONABLE person conclude that a prank phone call would result in suicide? ( Hint: Answer NO! )
The DJ's broadcasted BEFORE they actually dialed WHAT THEY WERE DOING THE CALL FOR. It was being done for a prank, a skit. NOTHING ELSE.
Shartorius : A friendly tip: DON'T TRY AND TELL ME HOW I SHOULD RESPOND TO SOMEONE. You feel that by making up the law as you see fit is acceptable and I feel it is acceptable if someone is talking out their rear end concerning the law to tell them so. Still waiting for you to show how they ( the DJ's were/are culpable in the nurses death. You are grasping at straws at how they supposedly broke a HIPAA rule ( which again has ZERO weight in England or Australia ). More advice: Quit while you can. Maybe you have strong feelings one way or the other. Strong feelings and morally or legally are two different things.
Snarky? LOL!
NEWSFLASH : One of her letters lambasted the hospital for how THEY treated her in regards to this incident.
I hope the Radio Station now pulls their pledge for money.
JeffN 1053549 is correct in stating : <NEWSFLASH : One of her letters lambasted the hospital for how THEY treated her in regards to this incident.>
I assumed that there were several mitigating factors. Primarily, one would have to have suicidal tendency to begin with. Moreover, according to European News, the nurse's suicide letter stated that she blamed hospital management for chastising her and not supporting her. I assume she was shouted so perhaps that pushed her over the edge. However, staff has vehemently denied that they were not supportive even though the letter left for the hospital states otherwise. According to the suicide note left behind she also blamed the radio staffers. I know everyone wants to think that the royal family is soft spoken, gentle and kind. However, how do we know that the queen didn't call the hospital indignantly to verbalize their displeasure and asked who was responsible; therefore, perhaps, the manager immediately took it out on the Indian nurse. Furthermore, why didn't the nurse who actually gave out the information commit suicide or get reprimanded for not recognizing a fake accent? Also the media has massacred the d.j.'s which has led the to death threats against the radio duo. Some of the anger is misdirected because the suicide nurse only did her job by sending the call through. Why isn't some of the inappropriate anger directed at the woman who divulged personal information and to the manager who berated the nurse who committed suicide? Of course, as humans we should sympathise with the poor nurse who killed herself, but we must also empathize with the two radio pranksters who did not intend harm. Here in Austria, Krone hits radio station does a prank every morning called "kleine Nils" where an adult d.j.,pretends to be a little kid, calls a random person, daily extracting information, and no one has ever committed suicide. Nevertheless, it is tragic that she thought her despair was deeper than the pain her children, hospital, two radio personalities and the like will endure for many years to come.
Typical thinking money,thats going to bring back the kids mom,pathetic.
To many of us this seems like it was no big deal. Have the majority of the world know that you were duped by a prank and then come back and say that. For whatever reason we do not understand at this time, this prank pushed a woman over the edge. Maybe it was cultural, maybe her kids were being teased, maybe she had other issues. We could "maybe" this forever but the results don't change. Someone died because of a prank. It's not the first time that has happened nor will it be the last.
The hospital, like many here in the US, could have issued a passcode to the patient. Only family members or friends would have this code as it is given out by patient or family and use it to get information on a patient. Without it, not even the Queen could get private info. A very simple solution.
The mum killed herself leaving the kids without a mum, pathetic.
Something else had to be going on. No one would kill themselves over something like that. I think she was having other problems.
So what? If these idiots triggered a suicide, it's still just as tragic.
Stop blaming the DJ's already. Three suicide notes? This woman had serious issues and I doubt a prank phone call was one of them. And if one of those notes does mention such then she really was off her rocker to begin with. The media is having a field day with this one - pure conjecture, no facts.
Get real Upperdeck. Everyone is crucifying these DJ's. Would you kill yourself over a prank call? Would any right thinking person do so? I'm sorry for the lady and her family but these two are not the cause of her death.
I agree.
I would NEVER leave my child no matter what the rest of the world thought of me.
She had issues and if suicide was an option to her then it if it wasn't the call it would have been something else. If the DJs are going to be blamed then what about all of the tv shows and newspapers in the states, and around the globe, that reported the prank? The hospital as well as they should have trained their staff better when it came to patient confidentiality.
The real victims are the kids. The mother did not need to kill herself. That was a selfish thing to do. There are ways to deal with embarrassment other than hanging oneself. No one, outside of the hospital, even knew who the person was who took the call.
Totally agree - who kills themselves and leaves 2 children.....totally messed up. Your first priority should be to your children - screw everyone else!
Mark Madoff has that beat. He not only left two children but one was in the apartment when he hung himself.
Happy2008, your effort is appreciated but lost on the Mary Jones of this world. They absolutely cannot see the world from any perspective but their own. Nor do they want to . . . it would disturb their comfort zone.
Why did something else have to be going on? Her reputation was ruined & her employability gone.
Exactly, Wryview. People don't seem to get that even though all she did was forward the call to the hospital ward, she was responsible for information being given out. Violating a privacy act means losing your job and probably your license. People who work in the medical field or any government agency know this. She made a mistake and couldn't handle the consequences. That being said, my heart goes out to her family. Even though many of us would not take our lives over a situation such as this, this is still tragic.
I repeat here for Mother of Two and wryview....why would the person who simply transferred the call be guilty of 'giving information out'? That was done by the nurse who she transferred the call to. SHE is the one guilty of violating patient privacy over the phone. And as I pointed out above, SHE hasn't killed herself yet. If and when she does, come back and we'll talk.
As for responsibility of the DJs...if I pop my brown paper lunchbag in my work cafeteria and a fellow employee two tables over has a heart attack and dies, am I then guilty of murder? Should all popping of paper bags be outlawed? Where does it end? Come down to earth where the air isn't so thin!
She didn't give out any information, she passed the call to another nurse. Now her family is raking in the bucks and I certainly don't know why. Many radio stations do prank calls as part of their daily programming. We even have T.V. shows like Punk!!Too bad about this woman's mental issues but this is certainly making a scape goat of the radio station. They also reported she had problems with the English language!! If that is true then blame the Hospital that hired her. I would think a top priority of being a nurse in any hospital would be to speak and understand the language of the country you are working in!!
A short story kind of related to this prank;
Many years ago, a person I knew was blowing up a balloon for a party. He went too far and the balloon popped. In a one-in-a-million chance, a piece of the balloon's latex blew into his mouth somehow and blocked his windpipe. He couldn't speak or get it out, and nobody knew what happened. Somebody thought he was having a heart attack and tried to perform CPR, but the man suffocated. Literally for years after that, I was afraid to blow up a balloon. I would even move away or keep my mouth closed when near someone who was. After realizing that I never saw or heard of this happening before or since, I finally realized that you can't live your life fearing that the unlikely or unthinkable might happen, even if it's also true that anything can happen at any given time. I finally got over my fear of balloons. So these DJs played a verbal prank over a telephone from thousands of miles away. Then a person, not even the person who was pranked into giving out information that she wasn't supposed to give out, but the person who simply answered the phone and transferred the call, commits suicide. It's tragic, but is this something you see every day? If you read it in a work of fiction, would you say "Of course! I can definitely see that happening."? Of course you wouldn't, but it happened. So you think these DJs should have anticipated this and just willfully went ahead and did it anyway? Should we live our lives now in fear of being pranked? What you should be asking is, if I'm pranked and nobody is physically hurt because of it, would I commit suicide? If you answered yes to that, then you have a problem that needs to be addressed.
You could always try killing yourself and see if it works for you too.
Steel toed boot. Perhaps she was the one in charge of filtering calls, so any calls she transfers are approved? The nurse who gives out the information indirectly receives approval the caller is truthful.
Also, let's say you popped that paper bag causing the president to die of a heart attack. You will now go down in history as the guy who killed the president. Your kids alone would partly resent you forever. And now you are mostly unemployable. You are ok with that? It's a tough legacy.
Sorry Gabbo1, but she could not filter a phone call any better than you or I or anybody else could. Unless it was on Skype, no one could prove, or approve as you say, who was on the other end. Especially by voice alone of someone you don't talk to regularly. I'll go so far to venture that she's NEVER talked to the Queen over the phone. On top of that, the Princess was in the hospital. While I would certainly seriously question the likelihood that the Queen would ever call me normally, I would certainly fall for it if I knew her grand-daughter in law was in my hospital.
And while I have popped a paper bag in my cafeteria, I never did it when the President was there. And he WAS once. (Clinton during a campaign visit to our comany in the nineties, and Gore in 2000 LOL). Nor would I, but not because I'd fear he'd have a heart attack, but because I'm too classy and respectful for that.
I will agree that she was much too trusting. Who's to say how people react when something does actually occur? Look at those celebrity or whatever encounters. Regular people freak out over the smallest acknowledgement. Most instantly become a yes person. I'll do whatever you say. It's not only being respectful and classy though. You wouldn't want to be embarrassed or embarrass him.
I am familiar with the cultural beliefs outside the U.S. However, suicide seems a very extreme solution under these circumstances. She gave little time to see what the "dishonor" would be and she caused irreparable harm to her family. While I certainly don't hold the DJs blameless, they were in Australia, not GB. If American DJs had done the same, we would have considered it run-of-the-mill, since there are personalities here that say and do just about anything without repercussions.
I am very sad for the nurse and her family. However, in the end I must agree that when a person takes her own life, she alone is responsible for the grief she causes. To point at any other person and say "he made me do it" is moral escapism. In our culture, suicide is usually considered a desperate and cowardly act, a refusal to see things through. In hers, it might be heroic. But what will her family feel? She took her life; no one else did it. If she did it to escape shame, that was her choice. These are the tragedies of cultural collision.
"It's not only being respectful and classy though. You wouldn't want to be embarrassed or embarrass him."
Exactly, Gabbo. I thought about adding that, but my editing time ran out. I also was thinking I might get taken down by a Secret Service bodyguard with an Uzi if I did that...just on principle! LOL
This is the real world people. Actions have consequences something your touchy feely educators never taught you about. This is where just saying sorry doesn't cut it anymore so you have to think before you act. True equality means loud mouths like you don't act as if the rest of the people of the world were put here for your amusement. Before you get a job rule 1 horsing around is cause for termination, pranks are horsing around and will get you terminated. Rule 2 you will not get unemployment if you are fired for cause. Pranks are cause you will not get unemployment checks. Just so you know ahead of time. Steel toed boot you miss the point about pranks. Pranks are wrong for the simple reason that they treat the other person as someone put here to amuse you. It is using someone without their permission in a way that is embarassing for your enjoyment. Pull one on me and I will probably teach you why you shouldn't have because you will not treat me as property.
Yes, this women had other issues. No one kills themself and leaves their children behind over a harmless prank.
A woman is dead. It wasn't so harmless, was it? And even if this woman didn't kill herself, it still wasn't harmless. They were trying to find out medical information on someone.
It seems likely that she may have been struggling with "other issues" already. In no way should that absolve others for their part in this tragedy. What if a person with diagnosed depression (like millions of people in America today) had tickets to visit family and was standing at the train station, near the tracks. Should the person who comes along and pushes him in front of the train be free from prosecution because he claims, "Well, he was looking at the train in a funny way, and he was depressed anyway."??
The poor woman's reputation, livelihood and privacy were destroyed by this "harmless prank" and she was made a laughing stock in front of the entire world. I am sorry some people can't comprehend the kind of pressure that could put on a person, what she had to incur.
"And even if this woman didn't kill herself, it still wasn't harmless. They were trying to find out medical information on someone."
You do realize, I hope, that the Queen and the Princess are 'public figures' same as our politicians here in America. And look how their privacy is respected (zero respect). Same goes for celebrities. The royals are both, celebrities and once-upon-a-time politicians. I think it was actually far more damaging when that paparazzi jerk took a telephoto picture from a quarter mile away of Kate sunbathing topless in the privacy of her own balcony with her own husband, then it was to inquire how she was doing from her nurse in the hospital. Once again, would anybody in their right mind expect that the woman who answered the phone (not the nurse who broke the hospital rules and gave out more information than she should have) would kill herself over it?
What a trivial thing to kill one's self over! I really cannot believe that this woman was not unstable in some other way. Still, it is tragic when a prank goes too far and sends someone off of an emotional cliff. The pranksters never foresaw this happening. They did not realize that it would bring the focus of the world onto someone who was not strong enough to bear it. And, I could imagine that it would be a heavy load.
But, really, what a trivial thing. I am sure that she would have been forgiven for it. There was no issue of national security involved here. No one's life or well being were at stake. This is very tragic for everyone involved.
You also do not know or understand other people's cuture. For some, humiliation of one's self = humiliation of one's family as well. As bad as it is, why do you think that honor killings exist? It's DEFINITELY wrong to us, but in another culture and time, it is what it is.
I feel for this family, and revealing this has NO value at all except to show the media as an ass for reealing it. Leave this grieving family ALONE!
"Nurse Managers" would not have forgiven her for it. You have to have worked in the Nursing field to really understand how hard they can come down on you. I can kind of understand that death is preferable to dealing with the absolute disdain of 'Nurse Bosses' after you did something to make them look bad.
Please think about this the next time you want to bad mouth your overworked nurse.
The poor woman's reputation, livelihood and privacy were destroyed by this "trivial thing" and she was made a laughing stock in front of the entire world. I am sorry some people can't comprehend the kind of pressure that could put on a person, what she had to incur.
Lots of speculation piled upon more speculation.
Let's consider the facts, since that's all we have.
1)two DJs under false pretenses talked to two nurses and received state secrets, I mean private information about how Kate Middleton is pregnant and has an upset stomach. Maybe, if they were especially sneaky they found out what she ate that day.
2). A woman is dead.
Now everything else is speculation. In the US, the nurses' actions may not have even violated HIPAA, since they had a reasonable belief that they were disclosing information to family members (who may have already been on the "allowed" list), information which was generally in the public domain, and which HIPAA has little if anything to say. I hate to tell you this shocking secret, but in the US, your doctors and nurses can tell your relatives quite a bit unless you put it in writing that they can't. HIPAA protects you from your employer and your insurance company, not your parents. They may not have even violated their own hospital's policy. We don't know for sure it was suicide, and if it was if it was in ANY way connected to the phone calls. We don't know if her husband beat her, if her coworkers bullied her, if the management wanted her gone, if she had a history of mistakes that was about to get her fired anyway. We don't know if her culture prizes honor over life. For all I know her culture (wasn't she in the UK, isn't that supposed to be her culture too?) values practical jokes. Mine does.
As an aside, if you are claiming she did this as a sort of "honor killing" then I'm not sure you can simultaneously claim that it was some terrible tragedy. If she believed that her death in some way righted the wrong of transferring a call, and you believe that the morality of that decision is determined solely on her personal beliefs, then what she did was good. Her children will remember her as a hero for honor and duty. What values are you willing to die for today?
I just realized something after reading another comment here. I never heard anything about this until this woman killed herself. Other than those in Australia who were actually listening to this radio station this particular day, I doubt anyone else had either. Furthermore, except for a laughing blurb on the internet, I don't think anybody would have ever even known about this prank, let alone the name of this woman who simply answered the phone and transferred the call to the nurse who actually gave out the information, if she hadn't killed herself. By the way, does anybody know the name of that nurse who actually gave out the info but hasn't killed herself yet? She already seems forgotten. Further proof that it was ONLY the suicide that made this a 'world-wide shameful story'.
Isn't intreresting that all of you have so much to say, and with such authority, as well!!! Ohh Myyy!!!
You cannot criticize unless you have walked in her shoes, felt whatever pain she had been feeling, for whatever reason. We do not understand the inner workings of one's private thoughts. So shut up and stop pretending you know it all, because you certainly don't.
May there be closure and peace for the family, and may their lives continue with much help from those around them. ........certainly not from you air-head critical bozos!
Was there any domestic abuse?
Could this more than suicide?
There was also reported that she has 'damages to her wrists'. Who knows maybe her husband did it!
Or just maybe she tried to slit her wrists.
If she tried to slit her wrists they would have said so. It was reported as 'damages'. It sounded more like (to me) she was bound hence the reason I said maybe her husband did it.
I'm sorry for this woman and her family but hanging these DJ's out to dry is just plain wrong. I doubt if any of you people criticizing them would have foreseen this. Would you have said-"I better not make this call. It may upset her and cause her to kill herself."?
Shouldn't the thought "I better not make this call - It might upset and humiliate someone unnecessarily and I don't know how they will react" been enought to prevent them from making the call? Shouldn't the thought "Kate Middleton is in the hospital. Lets assume she is really ill. Do we really need to make a joke out of that? Would I want someone to upset a member of my family during a medical crisis? Would I want someone to release confidential information about me or my family" been enough to prevent them from making the call?
I don't want to hang the DJ's. They work in a media culture that thinks everyone else exists as props for them and that humiliating someone publicly is no big deal. What I want them and their DJ brothers and sisters to learn is that everyone else is entitled to privacy and their own dignity and that humiliating another person is never acceptable.
Hey anita...Do you go through your day thinking "oh I better not say anything today because, gee, someone might take it wrong"?
@Rob68, I try to remember to not be careless with words. After having made many insensitive statements that were unnecessary or cruel when I was young and somewhat lacking in empathy, I am haunted by the effects my words have had.
Yes, Rob68, as a matter of fact I do. It's called thinking of others. Were you taught the 'Golden Rule' as a child? The one that goes: Do onto others as you would have done to you. It's a tried and true rule of thumb.
If your plan is "Hey, let's trick and humiliate a person in front of the entire world and destroy their privacy and reputation," then yes, you should face the blame if you are successful and you should take responsibility for the consequences. Hang the f*ckin DJs.
@Cameron The DJs said their "plan" was to, using poor accents, get busted on air trying to impersonate royalty. I don't think they thought it through beyond that. You are assuming they humiliated someone, you don't know that. You are assuming they destroyed someone's privacy (a very public person who everyone knew was pregnant and was puking), you don't know that. You are assuming someone's reputation was destroyed, you don't know that.
Based on wild speculation you have given a death sentence. That kind of thinking is responsible for a large portion of all human persecution, misery and suffering. You. You have just written on a forum in the most widely understood language on the planet, spreading your ideas.
I listened to the call - it was hillarious! Right up to the point when Kate's nurse started to talk. They should have hung up then. OK, I'm an RN, so I have some sympathy with those who were duped. I don't know what the Queen sounds like - I thought their accents were pretty good, actually, since I'm an American. The Corgis were spot-on. :) The first nurse, who sadly died later, had a fairly thick accent and I seriously doubt had any idea who was calling. She did what many with language barriers did, she punted (US definition). This happens to me all the time at McDonald's - I ask a question about a menu item, like, "does it have tomato?" The person gets panicky and gets the manager to answer. Totally understandable. Hospitable in my opinion 100% liable for having that nurse answering the phones.
For you HIPAA Nazis out there, here's the secrets revealed on the phone call. Keep in mind that the callers already knew from statements given to the public that Kate was a patient, was excessively sick from being pregnant, was therefore by definition dehydrated. Here's what the nurse said.
1. Kate was sleeping
2. She was being given fluids because:
3. She was dehydrated.
4. Her bed was uncomfortable and so she didn't sleep well
5. She had not vomited in the presence of her nurse during the last shift.
Now 1-4 were already known publicly. It was nighttime, everyone in the hospital has trouble sleeping, and is getting fluids (notice that fluids is vague enough to include drinking water).
5 is problematic - it's not a violation of HIPAA to tell your grandparents that you have not thrown up, but it's creeping closer.
In the UK, the laws could be more strict, I don't know. DJs should have hung up once they realized they got through to the bedside nurse, but that was too late for the first nurse - she was already "tricked". Sad.
You sound like the idiots who get killed while sky diving or mountain climbing. Their families also say it was unforeseen that something like this could happen. A messed up chute or bad rope was unforeseen??? Yeah, right. It was a risk, a deadly risk. So when it happens, it wasn't unforeseen, there was a known probability that it could happen.
Everyone doesn't understand or like pranks or jokes. It depends on the culture you grow up in. If you choose to do childish things like that for your own entertainment, do it to people you know. Those who you know will appreciate you humiliating them. I hate pranks, and will change the channel when I hear one on the radio. If I don't know you, and you prank me, you'll find something unforeseen. A punch in the nose. Now that will be funny. These DJ's knew that not everyone like pranks or would take them the wrong way. A common reply is to tell them "calm down, it's just a joke". Does that make it ok? No, it doesn't. This lady obviously took it as a personal failing on her part. What was worse it was put out there for the whole world to hear. People who knew her, and knew her voice. After all, they called the hospital where she works, and called the department she worked in, so it wouldn't be difficult to determine that it was her on the radio. She was humiliated for passing on a call that most others would know wasn't the queen. That makes her seem stupid. It also involved royalty. How could she ever live that down? She would be teased, heckled, and made fun of forever. Perhaps she was known as a no nonsense professional, now that is all taken away from her. Everyone has their breaking point, and she reached hers. Those that don't understand, are looking at it from their perspective looking out, rather then putting themselves in her shoes to see how she felt.
All for a laugh. I hope you all got a good one at her expense.
Anyone who spends their life-energy playing practical jokes on people (pranks) better be ready when karma comes back and smacks them on the head. Pranking people for laughs is alot like bullying. It can have similar outcomes as in this case. What do you expect when you treat people like garbage? It will come back to bite.
HIPPA is a US law, not a UK or Australian law. I have no idea what the laws regarding medical privacy are in those two countries. Just because no one may have done something illegal in those two countries however, does not make this right.
Yes Rob, I think before I speak, especially when I am at work where I am dealing with people I don't know, who don't know me - and most especially when I am communicating by phone or email or messaging because there are no clues from body language to contribute to understanding the context or content of the conversation for either party.
I get what you are saying, BP and I thank you for the sympathy; but even with people you know one person's joke may be another person's total humiliation. When I was ten years old, my family for some strange reason thought it was hilarious to make a joke out of teasing me for being fat. I did not find it funny at all-in fact, I was really hurt by it and grew up thinking I was fat when I was ten and always trying not to be fat anymore. Part of that was because my mom always showed great contempt for people who were overweight-therefore, if I was overweight, I was worthy of her contempt. When you are a kid you believe what people tell you. Years later, I looked at old pictures and could not find a single one where I looked fat-not even when I was ten. My mom revealed to me that she actually thought that I had been TOO SKINNY when I was ten years old. By that point I had already been in inpatient treatment for anorexia-not only because of the teasing, but the teasing was part of it. My family STILL denies their teasing had anything at all to do with my anorexia because, after all, it was just a joke.
There is a HUGE difference between joking around and walking up to someone and saying "hey you're a fat cow" for no reason...They didn't call her up and make fun of the way she looked, talked, walked, dressed etc.....THAT is being insensitive....Prank phone calling is a joke....If you relate the two you're delusional...
Rob, any joke that seriously screws up your life-that, for example, deceives you into violating a major law or at minimum a major code of ethics for your profession (even if she didn't actually give out the information but just transferred a call from an unauthorized person to a patient's room, that is STILL a violation and I feel sure it could be enough to lead to a penalty in the US) involving a beloved public figure and exposes you to public humiliation for the entire world while making you painfully aware that they are laughing at you for DAYS with absolutely no clue of the consequences their joke may cost you-is just not funny and is not a just a "prank" in my book. If you can't see the problem with possibly ruining someone's reputation, their job, and their career, then YOU need help.
Seen to much...She did nothing wrong in transferring the phone call...Why aren't we talking about the lady who gave the info? Because the info was meaningless...Was the call transferred to her room or another nurse's station??
And this woman did NOT kill herself because of a prank phone call....She had other issues...But "we" as a society always need to find someone to blame for our misgivings and actions...remember a small movie that was blamed for a large incident where people died??
Stop blaming these two for a stupid prank....Not everyone who takes their own life is a victim...
JKLD, it is important to release the content of these letters. It needs to be known why someone, who was responsible for caring for others would kill herself over such a minor prank. Let's stop blaming the DJ's! No matter what her reason was, for leaving her children motherless, she was a selfish coward.
Don't know what the notes say, but if this woman did this over a radio prank, she was already sick and needed help.
Radio pranks happen all the time.
By American standards that one was pretty weak.
Radio pranks are a form of bullying and are not funny at all. To laugh at someone else's expense is cruel.
From the reports all she did was put the call through, someone else gave the information out. The prank was a stupid prank, a cheap invasion of privacy but not a cause to kill yourself. Suicide is a very selfish way to destroy your family, her children will live with it the rest of their lives. When my husband was 16 his father killed himself, the family has never recovered, he is 63 now, so for many the pain never goes away. But as stupid as the DJs were they did not cause the suicide, that was entirely the nurse's choice.
It wasn't a "minor prank." It was a major security breach and the DJs should have known that they were going to cost this woman her career and her reputation. The DJs deserve what they are getting. I'm sick of infantile pop radio culture catering to the lowest common denominator of the populace.
Nope - minor prank. The call should have never gotten through. It is entirely the hospital staff and the operators who put this call through. First they should have asked WHO was on the other end. Then hung up. The NURSE chose to off herself ALL ON HER OWN.
The DJ's were impersonating other people and those people (right or wrong) are considered important in Great Britain and are deferred to. They did not identify themselves as DJ's on a radio show.
Really, they are Indians do you think they give a monkey's eye about the royal family. something else is going on here. Remember the cops have still not ruled suicide and those marks on her wrists may have something to do with that. could be just a coincidence with the DJ prank. And what about the one who actually spoke to them and give the information, she didn't commit suicide.....
Did anyone even HEAR the call?? It sounded SO fake, so their "impersonation" of other people sucked...And it's THEIR fault the Hospital staff fell for it?
I heard part of it. It did not sound ANYTHING like the Queen. NOTHING like her, heck and I live in the United States.
Have you ever spoken to the Queen on the phone? People sound different on the phone. It is entirely irresponsible to call a place where sick people are being cared for to pull a prank. These people are focused on the well being of the patients and shouldn't have to be on alert for immature jerks.
texas grace, it was a crime to make that call in the first place. Calling to try to obtain private health information is a crime. No different then someone calling you or your bank to get your account information and SSN. If someone did that to your information, then posted it for all to see, would you think it was just a harmless prank? I always thought of pranks as childish, so i can't give you an example of an appropriate prank. I do know they should just be done with people you know, and not total strangers. My friends know I don't like them, and woe to the stranger who does it to me. What I do in retaliation won't be as funny.
Wow- the lack of compassion on here is unbelievable and immature! The problem is that she believed she was the cause by transferring the call. The radio stations have gone way overboard with all of their pranks, ruthless. When you are dealing with someone, you do not know what they bring to the table. She was not English, she was from the Mideast. That is the reason some are referring to the different customs, this would not have occurred there and that is why she believed the caller. Do I blame the radio station entirely? No, but they do have some responsibility. The arrogance of thinking they are entitled to make such a phone call is beyond belief. The fact that they aired it when they nurses were clearly upset is ruthless. And to think it is okay to harass someone in the hospital is pure selfish. So yes, the radio station does bear some responsibility. However, suicide is a symptom of emotional problems and for that I give her family great sympathy for the pain that has caused them.
Unless someone has walked in the shoes of another, they do not understand what that person is experiencing. I am sure none of us knows what it is like to have the whole world know you blew it at your job. After the call was recorded, it was played over and over, with the DJ's laughing repeatedly, making fun of how stupid these nurses were. The media isn't playing the whole morning's episode. Including other news sources which picked it up, nor it going viral. The major news sources all jumped on the band wagon, laughing about this. We also don't know what pressure the hospital may have applied to this woman.
As JKLD points out wisely, we need to realize another cultures can see things like this very differently. And bringing dishonor can be worse than death to some. Just look at Japan's cultural history for perfect examples . By taking her life, this nurse may have felt she was removing the shame she might have thought the whole world saw in her.
At the very least, she left some letters, which hopefully will help explain what she was feeling and provide clear answers to exactly what her state of mind was.So all the speculation people are making hopefully will end.
As for the two DJ's. I just didn't buy the guy's tears, and he never said he was even sorry. He just turned away Of course hindsight is 20/20. But at their age, what were they doing to do, if the Princess had actually answered the phone? These two are in the business of deceiving others and doing whatever it takes to get the story. Sometimes that ends up having awful consequences.
Those who commit suicide get no sympathy here . . .
The nurse simply transferred a telephone call, which is no reason whatsoever to rail on the DJs and ruin their lives, really . . .
Really! :-o
I haven't read anything yet that connects the suicide to the DJ hoax. It seems like a big assumption saying one led to the other.
Does it really matter? They pranked her, now she is dead. Fortunately she left a note stating why she did what she did. The issue is the prank itself, which was wrong to do all on its own., because it was illegal to obtain medical information under false pretenses. I hardly see what was so funny about it. And even less when that information was broadcasted over the radio.
All the more evidence why these two DJs need to do time for Involuntary Manslaughter. I recommend 1-3 years, 5 years probation, forfeiture of 1,000,000 pounds, and loss of license.
This nurse had honor and these two DJs took that honor away from her in a most public and dishonorable way. This nurse did what most people with honor do when they lose it; she took her life. If only Bush, Petraeus, Rumsfeld, Cheney, Karzi, and others would follow her example.
Well that would be an amusing trial. There is no way a criminal or civil trial would result in the conviction or loss of suit against the DJ's. If this was possible, every conceivable action by any of us who had any contact of any kind with a person that injured or killed themselves would be prosecuted.
Ridiculous. People are responsible for themselves. You are a great example of the "victim" class of person. Nothing you do is your fault. You naturally want to project that on everyone else. Obviously you also get all or most of your income courtesy of the taxpayers.
This woman isn't a victim of anything. She was victimized by her own mental illness and bears the total responsibility for the abandonment of her family on her own shoulders.
Not true Steve the dog man.
As you may recall, there were recently two cases where the exact same thing happened, albeit on a much smaller scale than this, which is all the more reason why these two need to go down.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_of_Tyler_Clementi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_of_Amanda_Todd
Nice try though.
Captain, you are a piece of work for sure. Steve, i am in total agreement with you. "victim class of person" excellent description!
Steve the dog: she could NOT have worked with honor as you say - she killed herself. That is NOT honorable. She took the quick way out. There is nothing honorable about suicide. She was a nurse, THAT is an honorable job. But she must not have been a good nurse.
Regardless of the cause its sad that it happened, my feeling is its a combination of things that caused it it could be that she was shamed into it as the culture is hard for that type of thing esp related to the royals or perhaps the markings on her wrists are indicators that this wasn't a suicide at all who knows ... but at the end of it i simply feel for her family
The DJs were doing a show and the prank actually worked. They didn't cause the nurse to kill herself (if she really did as it appears she had a little help). Maybe their show should be cancelled if their station believes so or loss of advertising but not because of any legal wrong-doing.
The news reports said she had marks on her wrists, maybe she had been tied up hung to dry and then they untied her wrists to look like suicide. Then there is scumbag Vaz on the scent of money, the dodgy politician that was opening the back door to as many Indian immigrants as he could sneak in and then goes on to champion their rights, good old scumbag Vaz is only there for money and glory. The whole thing is a cover up, sort of honour killing and now they have found a way to milk it for all it's worth because the mass public are stupid.
This should be a lesson to anyone who thinks humor at someone else's expense is an acceptable form of entertainment. Anyone who treats others with kindness and respect would never have pulled a stupid prank like this. I don't know who would think obtaining another person's personal medical information, and then putting it on the air, is funny. These radio DJ's are idiots. Hopefully they learned something, now that a woman is dead and her kids have to grow up without a mother. Real funny!
There was something already seriously wrong with the nurse prior to any of this happening. This may have been the final straw, but normal healthy people don't commit suicide because of a prank call - even if it involves a royal family, which in my opinion, are no different than anybody else.
Absolutely - PRIORITY #1 - Love and protection of your Children and Family, #2 Job, #3 Food, #4 Laundry etc....
...................#1000th PRIORITY - Royal Family (who?)
LNF, I would agree with you that she may have had some emotional and mental instability. But, one thing to remember in this case, and in many others, is that this went global on the internet.
I have often wondered how I, myself, would feel if I found myself suddenly with the focus of the world on me. We see it everyday when we sit down to our computers. One must wonder what an experience it is to be suddenly thrust into the world's spotlight. Do they read what people say about them? I know that I would be overwhelmed by it.
it seems reasonable to consider that it may not have been just the deceit, but maybe it was the overwhelming media attention that drove her over the edge.
I remember the royal wedding and the little flower girl who became the focus of so much ridicule as she stood frowning down on the adoring masses. Poor kid, she was only three years old and totally overwhelmed. She was not at her best and she showed it. I felt so sorry for her parents. I hope, for her sake, that her parents protect her from reading some of the most hateful comments on the internet. What a thing to be only three years old and the world is already tearing you down!
This, more than anything else may have been what sent this nurse to her death.
I agree, the royals just put their pants on, one leg at a time, just like the rest of us do. I am not British, so I feel no adoration of the royals. I dont' see that they have done anything to deserve the adoration.
But by the same token Hanne - they have done nothing to deserve such hideous pranks by immature people. The Duchess was severely ill. You can die from her condition. It is not just simple morning sickness.
unfairunbalancefox - You state the #2 is job. The royal family WAS her job that day. Her reputation was ruined.
wrgview, the royal family is not the issue here. The issue is the suicide of the nurse.
If this woman committed suicide because she passed a prank phone call along, she had many other deeper issues. The radio DJs are not remotely responsible for her actions.
This sounds like a classic "hit" by the Royals. The only one that got big press though, was the assassination of Diana. They have been doing it for all of recorded history, why would they stop now.
LOL Right, classic statement LOL!!!!!
NO SUICIDAL NURSES FOR ME PLEASE!
Why was someone with such a fragile state of mind allowed to care for vulnurable patients? Whats to stop her from doing a mercy killing on someone she feels was humiliated?
I don't think we need to worry about that ever happening, do you?
Wow, msnbc, thats breaking news, thats only a week old!
I agree with Sara an earlier poster. To do something like this over a prank shows a very unstable personality and anger and rage of biblical proportions. to abandon her children and family shows the depths of her unstable thought processes. The prank call was just the trigger for a highly unstable person.
Common prank for a DJ. Depending on the station. I think this woman had other issues and her ethnic hertitage had a bigger issue with her "honor".
Will we see an outcome where DJ's will no longer place prank calls? Hey folks, it was a joke! After Janet Jacksons "wardrobe malfuntion", nobody dares to say anything "naughty". The jokes of "Shirtless Girl" were funny but are no longer heard on "Bob and Tom". I'm an adult, if I didn't like the jokes, that's what the dial is for. Change the station.
Too bad she had a weak will. My sympathies to her family. Too bad she didn't think of her kids!
Quote - "There are many who are gullible, highly emotional, and at various stages of irrationality. The world is full of such people. Anyone contemplating such a prank should always consider the unintended consequences." So says a responder here.
Shall no one ever say, "I ate so much I thought I would explode", lest someone within ear shot lost a loved one in an explosion? Or how about "If I have to pick up another one of your dirty socks I'll kill myself"? There are a million ways people are killed or commit suicide. Should the world stop using expressions, telling a joke, or pulling a silly prank because there are "sensitive" or unbalanced people out there?
To INTENTIONALLY say or do something to hurt another is wrong. But to mummify people is ridiculous.