the moron and planet apes are the sign of stone age which moersi want Egypt to turn to stone age. mori is not loving for Egyptian people . moersi is a mentally ill, fanatic .He does not know the consequence of his move. his move will destroy Egypt and casing violent and civil disobedience

Ali Baba, And this is a terribly unfortunate turn. The violence and civil disobedience, as you stated, will most likely continue as Egyptians love their country and want to get it right, or on the road to a manageable life. I don't think they have risked so much and come this far to settle for Morsi's "bait and switch". The people will keep fighting instead of allowing Egypt to go to ruin........they are proving that.

@ XPW4 & Ali Baba

The people will keep fighting instead of allowing Egypt to go to ruin........

All sophisticated people hopeful!

The timing of this constitution highlights their malice intentions, the parliament is none functional and these fanatics are rushing to implement their ways, what they think is appropriate on the entire Egyptians. with no regards to protests, no regards to what majority of Egyptians want. Which is to love free as we did for years without Sharia. You have sene what Sharia did in Yemen and Afghanistan, Pakistan. It brought them into extreme poverty, stoning, blowing up historical monuments, robbing them out of any rights. This seems to be a priority rather then building civilized roads, increasing security, cleaning our water system, new buses, Why? Why is sharia more important in a time where the country is upside down? These fanatics will not win, Mursi will be out by January 25th no matter how hard his stuborn supports tell him to stay. Stubbornness will only cause more blood shed in the streets. This is the country of Halim hafiz, and much more talent thru out the country, first woman to research nuclear medicine was from Tanta Egypt. This was done without Sharia, our country was free without Sharia. Mursi is welcomed to pack up and go to yemen, where they can blow up more historical sites and stone more woman.

In the interests of accuracy can I just say that all those people who are using the term stone age, are using it in the wrong context. The term stone age is an archaeological term used to describe a people level of technological development. To give an, example peoples of a Stone Age mostly use tools and devices made of stone. It is not a cultural term.

As for Egypt well if as has been claimed the majority of the people don’t want the MB in charge (I personally think the majority of them just don’t care) then no doubt they’ll change things. In that regard I would have to say that I hope they put more planning into what to do after the MB goes, otherwise they’ll just leave open a vacuum for the next lot of extremists to take over.

Losmuertos, "I personally think the majority of them just don't care"............Why do you think that the majority of Egyptians don't care about what the MB are doing now ?

Los, The term "stone age" appears to be used as a figure of speech in this context .....as in going "backward" ya think ?

@XPW People in Egypt cares, they paid for the revolution with more than a thousands dead and much more severely injured. The majority is resisting the MB who is trying to enforce an autocratic state. Here's the fight that broke out in Alexandria between those opposing the MB constitution and those defending it after the Friday's prayer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=wBqJsruGHuA

Coptic Christian, Hey, hey.........Please read post #3.5, second paragraph, as I was quoting Losmuertos and asking him why he stated "I personally think the majority of them (Egyptians) just don't care". I asked him why he thought that, as I think Egyptians care about their country and lives, of course. Just wanted to get that straight with you. Furthermore, I have lived in Egypt and have known many Egyptians. If you read my posts here you would note that I am not for the MB, the constitutional decree or anything else having to do with the MB. I hate to see what is happening there. I will check out the link you posted. Take Care.

@XPW Sorry you thought I was criticizing you, that was not my intention, I know that you were asking Los to explain his position. I directed my comment to you because I did not want to bother with Los and his campaign of misinformation about the MB after spending the last two days arguing with him over his position towards the MB and the recent events in Egypt.

Los is a good debater, so good that you will never be able to figure out what he really believes or which side he is supporting.

Coptic Christian, Well Copt, I wasn't sure.......so now that we're clear on that. Good. No harm done. I've read the debates between you two btw and Los sure does know how to wrangle, yes. I watched the video you posted and many others of the unrest that has unfolded in Egypt. It is extremely troublesome as I have a particular fondness for Egypt. But not for the MB.....

XPW, It's great to have people like you who are interested in seeking the truth and care about those who are in need. The events in the world today and the tragedies that happen almost on a daily basis are so depressing, and the only way out of this mess is to have more people who care about humans not ideologies. And that's the battle line drawn in today's Egypt; on one side are those who wanted to help their fellow Egyptians and who paid the price with their blood, while on the other side are the ideologue who care only about their creeds and couldn't care less about their fellow citizens. The MB and the Salafists are the worst examples of this second group, they are bringing untold miseries to their fellow citizens while seeking to build their Shariah based Caliphate.

Well XPW4, I believe I have told you why I think people in general (not just Egyptians) don’t care. But for the benefit of our online audience, let me say again. I believe that the majority of people don’t care because their day-to-day lives are more important. That for the vast majority the intricacies of policy and politics are just too dull and abstract to bother with. Which is why it takes people using language like “stone-age” or “worse than the Nazis,” to get people engaged and motivated. Because the rest, like the actual act of governance, is for most is just beyond their interest and ability, that’s why even in the most liberal democracies the be all and end all of the majority’s participation is with casting ballots at the election. With the vast majority doing so based not on policy knowledge but on the personality of whose running.

Losmuertos, Despite the fact that many may lack an understanding of politics and are preoccupied with their day to day lives.......they care. They care because their survival and quality of life has everything to do with government.

Los,

for the benefit of our online audience

Can you point into a single posting you made where you praised Christianity, or where you criticized Islam.

XPW4

Right….They care so much that instead of spending time participation in the democratic process, or educating themselves on policy and other such things, they just come online type loads of sensationalists’ rhetoric and complain without offering any sensible solutions about what to do instead. Yeah that’s caring. No wonder their elected officials don’t pay any attention to them when they get in power.

Oh and Coptic: Three things, one I don’t even know why you asked me that question as it has no relevance (I do not like religion. Any religion, I think they are all just antiquated political systems that have no place in the public sphere at all.) two, I cannot name any post because I never have “praised Christianity or criticised Islam.” Likewise, I have never criticised Christianity nor praised Islam, I have made fun of Christians sure and I have defended Islam (especially in regards to the way people like to pick and choose which bits of its history, and present it as the complete history of that faith) and third I could ask you the exact same question in reverse, when have you praised Islam and criticised Christianity?

Los I asked the question after I checked through many of your postings, going all the way to 2010, and here's a comment you made

Religious violence in Iraq? Why does this not surprise me? Let me think is it because both Christianity and Islam are for all intents and purposes uncompromising political doctrines that take the view "your either with us or going to hell" and that both seek to only increase their membership numbers through conversion. Face it when to forces like that collide there will be violence.

when the subject was
http://world-news.newsvine.com/_news/2010/11/01/5387554-58-die-in-siege-on-baghdad-catholic-church?commentId=19007231#c19007231
Any one who tried to argue that there is no difference between Islam and Christianity while discussing the brutal attack of Al Qaeda on innocent people praying in a Church is definitely an Islamist apologist and should be exposed as such

Coptic Christian

Lol well it’s nice to see you have been going through my back catalogue, but it’s a shame you could not find something more recent, I mean 2 years ago is an awfully long time. But I digress, oh and you know what making statements like that does not make me an “Islamic apologist” as it were (well it probably does to you, but you’ve made it very clear that you want to see as Christian vs. Islam conflict) in fact, statements like that prove just how much I dis-like all faiths, after all I never said one was better than the other, I said that both take the view that they are ultimate truth (which they do) that if you don’t agree (and thus follow) with them, you will be punished by going to hell (which again both say,) and that when you have believers of two such ultimately uncompromising belief systems conflict is bound to happen (which again it did) so please if you’re trying to “expose me” you may want to try a little harder, because that attempt is just desperate.

As for my position towards Islam, as a Christian I do not accept the teachings of Islam but I respect the faith of my Muslim brothers. However,  I am strongly opposed to any group blinded by their ideology to the extent that they don't care about humanity, and MB and some Salafist belong to this category.  Yes these groups exist in every religion; Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism; as there also atheist and environmentalist, and many other social and national movements that fit this description; and I am just as opposed to these  groups as well.  From the third to the eighteenth century religion was the biggest culprit, then until the end of WW II nationalism was the problem, then it was communism, and now it is radical Islam and any sane unbiased person can ‘t argue with this fact.

As for my position towards Islam, here’s what I posted about that stupid video that Obama wanted to use it to cover  for his failed policy in the middle East

This movie about Muhammad is disgusting. l tried to watch the 14 minute trailer, and I could not stand the vulgarity and stupidity filling this piece of trash. While it is important to engage our Muslim brothers in a civilized discussion, this movie is a setback to any hope for meaningful discussions.

This is a proof of what we have always said in the Middle East, "A sane enemy is better that a crazy friend" or
"Instead of having a thousand stupid friends, it's better to have one smart enemy."

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/09/11/13807579-american-killed-in-libya-during-protests-about-prophet-muhammad-video?commentId=69892389#c69892389

Los, I wanted to show that this was always your position, here's what you just posted this month. Again your trick is sidetracking any discussion by claiming moral equivalency of Islam and Christianity so most readers will forget the original subject

lol yes of course the "libturds" need the Christians to save them from the Muslims, right because christians have such a good track record of saving people don't they? Just think all that salvation requires is the unconditional acceptence of Jesus as one's personal saviour and the blind obediance to his laws and bingo you're saved. Wait a min that sounds alot like what the Muslims want for salvation too. Hmm no wonder the "libturds" don't want Christians around anymore I mean at least with the Muslims they are half the world away, with Christians they are on you doorstep

#221.3 - Fri Dec 7, 2012 9:33 PM PST

http://openchannel.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/07/15760065-senior-al-qaida-leader-killed-in-drone-strike-in-pakistan-jihadis-us-officials-say?commentId=72458262#c72458262

Coptic Christian

That this? That what? That I dis-like religion? Because I do, that unlike you (who is Christian) I see the biggest threat of oppression in the West is coming from the more numerically and culturally entrenched Christians then the ultimately few in number and culturally alien Islamists. Because again that would be true, although I would also say if you want to be fair to the readers of this post and maybe to yourself you should have posted the post that came before it as my post was in direct reply to that post. So the first post said this.

“All I can say,the libturds who want to do away with Christmas and all thing christian , better be happy there are christians out there or most or all of them would be dead by now.They love to piss on eveything and everybody christian but I would love to see how long these clowns would last if all christian in America pulled up their tent and moved elsewhere and allowed the "other" religions to take over.The same idiots who voted Obama back into office, one day will remember and curse the day they pulled that lever for him.Happy Trails America!I love you!”

And I replied this

“lol yes of course the "libturds" need the Christians to save them from the Muslims, right because Christians have such a good track record of saving people don't they? Just think all that salvation requires is the unconditional acceptance of Jesus as one's personal saviour and the blind obedience to his laws and bingo you're saved. Wait a min that sounds a lot like what the Muslims want for salvation too. Hmm no wonder the "libturds" don't want Christians around anymore I mean at least with the Muslims they are half the world away, with Christians they are on you doorstep”

So if anything that post is in reply to the first guys stupidity then against Christians in general. After all whilst I do not like religion I have no problem with people practicing it, just as long as they keep it out of the public domain.

Los, we are getting somewhere finally. Since you said 

So if anything that post is in reply to the first guys stupidity then against Christians in general. After all whilst I do not like religion I have no problem with people practicing it, just as long as they keep it out of the public domain.

Don't you see that this is exactly the battle going on now in Egypt, and to some extent in Tunisia, Islamist seized on the opportunity given to them when the revolutionary youth succeeded in getting rid of the old regimes, and are trying to force their interpretation of Islam on everyone. If you can follow the discussion going on in Egypt today, you will find almost every educated person and many average Muslims opposed to the MB power grab. All the early returns on the constitution referendum from major cities show a rejection of the Shariah based constitution, it remains to be seen if the MB will win the vote in Upper Egypt. They did that in the Morsi's election but there was accusations that the Salafist prevented Coptic villages in Upper Egypt from voting. This rumor was based on the fact that there was zero vote casted in some villages, this rumors were so widespread that the Judge who announced the results had to claim that this zero vote came from voting posts assigned to women and that people in Upper Egypt did not allow their women to go out to vote. Any way today's vote will be a turning point for Egypt and I hope this constitution will be rejected but if it is passed I will be waiting to see if you will condemn turning the oldest civilization in the World into an autocratic religious state.

Coptic Christian

Personally I see a lot of issues going on over Egypt, I remember people calling for the presidential elections very quickly because they did not like the army, I see people concerned about the economy and who just want things to get back to normal, and I also see an Islamist government trying to run through a religious constitution (although that view is juxtaposed by American Christians claiming freedom of religion was designed to keep the government out of church and not the church, and so religion out of government) and I would say that trying to see things clearly by those who use over-emotional language to try to sway me to their point of view. But that is just a personal preference.

Now I know that Egypt is voting on its constitution this weekend and I wish them luck, personally I hope they vote it down, but if it gets through and there is no proof that the vote was rigged (sorry but rumours don’t count as proof) then I won’t condemn it, after all that’s democracy at work for you if the majority of voters vote for it (no matter how slim the majority is)

Also in that regard I will say I won’t be condemning anyone in the west either, after all no one in our governments, wrote, campaigned or voted for the constitution, so it’s not their fault, and no matter how much we may not like it, it is they who have to work with both this constitution and the MB.