Ray - I guess they're where the strict Christian laws are against crimes like this, in some interpretation purgatory somewhere. I'm sure the predatory pedophile Catholic priests interpret Christian laws differently than the priests who aren't, The FLDS members interpret Christian laws differently regarding women, as well. However, I would like to believe that Jesus, upon whom Christianity is based, had a better opinion of women than Mohammad or other prophets. But, it depends on how his words and God's, are interpreted by humans. There's the catch.

I really feel badly for these women. They can't get a break, even when they're trying to do good. They just get beat into submission, mentally and physically. I'd suggest they just leave, but it seems that most of the Middle East has the same opinion of their women. Shame be upon them.

When we leave and the Taliban come back, it will be even worse. I wish these women and their children all the best in their everyday struggles to survive in such a society.

Ray,

I doubt 3rd world countries even have laws pertaining to these situations. I will never understand the Muslim ways as to women are pawns, cannot show their faces or they get a beat down, have to walk "behind" their man and are basically slaves etc...

Not fair from one human being to the next.

Can you believe that these Afghan police are capable of such heinous crimes? Oink.

Put it into perspective- Afghanistan is for likely the first time letting women out from under wraps and into public jobs. They are on the cusp of being turned back over to radical Islamists (the Talliban is waiting) and they'll quickly put them back behind doors (no education, no rights, etc.). There was a recent report on women's rights that directly pointed to Afghanistan and noting that women are terrified that the end is near for them. So here you have women with some new rights being challenged by the old masagonistic system, by those ready to push them back, and those trying to intimidate them back into seclusion. Remember that IF they are granted any status and rights that they'll likely need numerous "witnesses" to corroborate their claims of rape- and that's not going to happen. I'm not surprised that this is happening, just read other stories of what's happening there. When we pull out it's going to be very ugly.

Let us not forget it is an acceptable custom to buy little boys, dress them up as girls and butt bang them because homosexuality is wrong. America always picks the best of friends. What do people in Washington do, find the most fukked up people and places on Earth and throw our resources at them?

Personally, I think the ladies on the force need to band together and take their harassing chauvinistic male counterparts for some "talks" out behind the woodshed in back of the police station! I know it probably won't happen but I can dream can't I? It is however a well deserved course of action to treat the men a lesson!

Ray, to these "enlightened" Muslim men on the force committing these acts, under Muslim law they are committing no crimes! Muslim law allows them to treat women like they do and get away with it.

Morning CD, you are correct. The same disdain for women applies for some that practice Buddhism as it is interpreted by the Chinese and Japanese. For these groups, their women are simply slaves for their men as well, to the point of murdering female children and selling them into slavery. There are sects of Christians that to a lessor degree believe that women are meant to serve as well but without the physical retributions of raping and killing them. If you go to other continents you will always find some group, based on their religious beliefs or the lack of them that degrade and brutalized one group or another. The extremist Muslims seem to simply hold the most outwardly brutal record.

Kris, your point about the taliban or the equivalant to coming back once the U.S. and others have left is very possible. Unfortunately, some in the U.S. have yet to learn that we can not just order others to have the same moral beliefs as we do. It isn't that simple when the other side doesn't want to listen.

Just don't understand it. People getting stoned to death. People beheaded, then there head paraded around on a stick. Peoples limbs cut off. And yet these police are allowed to get away with these crimes. Some religion, people interrupt it anyway they want. Barbaric people.

"Women in the police force were held up as a showcase for Afghan-Western efforts to promote rights in the new Afghanistan, born from the optimism that swept the country after the ouster of the Taliban in 2001."

There were too many flashes like these in Iraq.

Some have to justify these wars spending huge monies, losing lots of soldiers, and piling up debts.

For those, who give 9/11 as excuse for Afghanistan war: Saudis and Pakis were the real culprits.

Instead of attacking Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, Bush and his team got Afghanistan and Iraq on the map!

They are being raped because their religion allows for it

Just as a comparison, I looked up the history of US women in the police force and found that women weren't able to become police officers until 1910 (in 1905 they were able to obtain the title "police matrons" whatever that is).

They weren't considered "real cops" so they were paid less and unable to be promoted, they were also segregated into ladies only units where they performed clerical work. As of 1970 only 2% of the force was women, which increased to 14% as of 2003 (I'm taking this info from a 2010 research paper called "Females in Policing" btw).

In fact, here's a nice little quote from it:

A 1990 study by Martin revealed that two-thirds of the 70 women police officers in the study had “reported at least one instance of sex discrimination and 75% reported sexual harassment on the job” (as cited in Horne, 1994, para, 37).

My point is, breaking the glass ceiling is hard everywhere. To the ladies of Afghanistan I say, stick with it! It's going to be a long hard battle that, and let's be honest, you might never win, but hang in there for your daughter's daughters!

Outrageous. As if these men never had a mother raising them.

Just what is it in Islam that breeds such perverted men?

lovemymeme's,

A Police Matron was a female officer (Mid to late 1800's) that worked with the "women & minors" in prisons. Before that, the woman prisoners were searched by male guards and you know that didn't go over too well.

Also, the women and men were not separated back then and were housed in the same prison. I don't think they were within the same cells or not but I doubt it.

you cant insert western ways into a prehistoric land.they need generations to grow up.

Careful about blaming the Koran. I just recently learned that the true story of Prophet Mohammad, involves him being a huge proponent of women, preaching equality and kindness toward woment. Certainly NOT someone who condoned any evil or inequality toward them. He was a kind and peaceful soul. Maybe we should all be a little careful about blaming something we don't fully (even try to) understand.

That said, the misinterpretation of such wonderful teachings to allow for this horrible cultural norm is one of the hugest travesties in the world.

Afghanistan is probably two centuries away from becoming progressive, but if the Taliban take over it will be another seven centuries. It is time to walk away and let them live and behave like the swine they are not permitted to eat.

Plotinus,

Are you stoned!? LOL

he looks like Jerry Sandusky to me

Before we bail out on them, the U.S. should offer any Afghan woman and their children political asylum.

Creek Dog,

I try to stay that way, but mainly through prayer and meditation. A good toke every now and then too.

The avatar is a photo of a bust of my namesake, Plotinus. He stayed stoned too.

Ed-NavDoc said:

Ray, to these "enlightened" Muslim men on the force committing these acts, under Muslim law they are committing no crimes! Muslim law allows them to treat women like they do and get away with it.

Actually according to Muslim law yes, they are committing crimes. Having sex with/raping a woman whom you are not married to is fornication;

o12.0 THE PENALTY FOR FORNICATION OR SODOMY

o12.1 The legal penalty is obligatorily imposed upon anyone who fornicates or commits sodomy (A:provided it is legally established (def: n11.2 (O:))) when they:

(a) have reached puberty;

(b) are sane;

(c) and commit the act voluntarily; no matter whether the person is a Muslim, non-Muslim subject of the Islamic state, or someone who has left Islam.

o12.2 If the offender is someone with the capacity to remain chaste, then he or she is stoned to death (def: o12.6), someone with the capacity to remain chaste meaning anyone who has had sexual intercourse (A: at least once) with their spouse in a valid marriage, and is free, of age, and sane. A person is not considered to have the capacity to remain chaste if he or she has only had intercourse in a marriage that is invalid, or is prepubescent at the time of material intercourse, or is someone insane at the time of marital intercourse who subsequently regains their sanity prior to committing adultery.

If the offender is not someone with the capacity to remain chaste, then the penalty consists of being scourged (def: o12.5) one hundred stripes and banished to a distance of at least 81 km./50 mi. for one year.

o12.4 Someone who commits fornication is not punished if he says that he did not know it was unlawful, provided he is a new Muslim or grew up in a remote (O: from Islamic scholars) wilderness, though if neither of these is the case, such a person is punished.

There's another whole section explaining how the person is to be scourged, what instrument to use, what climate conditions it is impermissable to do so in, and how many blows can be given, but i'm not going to get into that here.

Now, as to 'not letting a woman out of the house':

m10.3 (A: A husband may permit his wife to leave the house for a lesson in Sacred Law, for invocation of Allah (dhikr), to see her female friends, or to go to any place in the town. A woman may not leave the city without her husband or a member of her unmarriageable kin (def: m6.2) accompanying her, unless the journey is obligatory, like the hajj. It is unlawful for her to travel otherwise, and unlawful for her husband to allow her to.) (n: In the Hanafi school, it is not unlawful for her to travel beyond city limits without a husband or member of her unmarriageable kin unless the distance to her intended destination exceeds ca. 77 km./48mi. (al-Lubab fi sharh al-Kitab (y88), 1.105).)

And actually, this makes sense if you remember that these laws were codified in 1300 CE, and at that time a single woman traveling alone could be subject to all sorts of violence and indignity--even today it's not a good idea for a single female or groups of females to travel alone (anybody see the movie 'Taken'?) In our cities women are told to be careful of their surroundings when they go out at night, to stay in well-lit, public places, avoid shadowy dark areas where predators could be lurking, and its why public parks are closed at night.

And for a directive for women to cover up:

(1) It is not permissible for a man to look at a woman who is not his wife or unmarriageable relative except for her face and hands ((Maydani:) because of the necessity of her need to deal with men in giving and taking and the like). If a man is not safe from lust, he may not look at her face except when it is demanded by necessity.

The implication in this portion of the law clearly indicates that men shouldn't look at women if they can't control themselves. It does say that looking at her face and hands is permissible because women have to deal with men; nowhere does it say that a woman has to cover entirely. And if you're looking for the injunction that a woman has to cover her hair, this comes from the Gospels, as Muslims acknowledge Jesus as the Messiah and believe he speaks the word of God:

1 Corinthians 11:6

If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head.

And the Qu'ran exhorts Muslims to follow Jesus (referred to multiple times as the Immaculate One) the Gospels and the Ten Commandments:

And we caused Jesus, son of Mary, to follow in their footsteps, fulfilling that which was revealed before him in the Torah, and We gave him the Gospel which contained guidance and light, fulfilling that which was revealed before it in the Torah, and guidance and an admonition for the God-fearing. (Qu’ran 5:48)

Surely, those who have believed, and the Jews, and the Sabians, and the Christians—whoso believes in Allah and the Last Day and does good deeds, on them shall come no fear, nor shall they grieve. (Qu’ran 5:70)

‘Those who follow the Messenger, the Prophet, the Immaculate One, whom they find mentioned in the Torah and the Gospel which are with them. He enjoins on them good and forbids them evil, and makes lawful for them the good things and forbids them the bad, and removes from them their burden and the shackles that were among them. So those who shall believe in him, and honor and support him, and help him, and follow the light that has been sent down with him—these shall prosper.’ (Qu’ran 7:158)

God said ‘O Moses, I have chosen thee above the people of thy time by My messages and by My word. So take hold of that which I have given thee and be of the grateful. And We wrote for him upon the tablets about everything—an admonition and an explanation of all things. So hold them fast and bid thy people follow the best thereof. Soon shall I show you the abode of the transgressors.” (Qu’ran 7: 145-146)

And when black people marched for rights, they were met with fire hoses and beatings. Times are pretty s h i t t y for women right now over there, but with time, pressure from the west, the prevalence of the internet with the young generation, and women taking a standing, they can eventually become equals like over here in a matter of decades. The world supports you ladies, we'll try to do what we can to help you.

Amanda, you can read the book all you want but that does not alter the facts one iota that those laws were written by men for men like most religious laws and the Muslim men are almost never held accountable for their actions. The laws are almost always interpreted by judges and/or clerics to mean the women are at fault.

Amanda, these is a bit of editorializing of Quran in what you posted. There are other verses which state quite the opposite on the treatment of Christians and Jews. The mainpoint here was the treatment of women and from what I read Muslim men have very different ideas about what is acceptable sexual behavior toward both men and women.

Ed:

Exactly my point, thank you. The laws according to the Muslim religion are quite specific, it's the interpretation which is sorely lacking. If more women were involved in interpretation of the laws, things would be more fair--and while I don't like to oversimplify things, this is a good example of what the world would look like if men made all the rules.

Tony:

The first two quotes I posted are not from the Qu'ran itself, but from a book called 'Reliance Of The Traveller' which codifies Muslim Sharia law that was written by an Arabic guy who died in the 1300's.

The Qu'ran shows no animosity toward Christians, though there is some antipathy toward Jews because the Jews don't acknowledge Jesus as the Messiah (but they agree with Jews following Moses's Old Testament Laws.) While Muslims don't harbor ill-will toward Christians themselves, what they have a problem with is Christians bowing down before the effigy of Jesus on the cross (idolatry, according to the Old Testament laws) praying to saints, and the main sticking point is the Christian concept of a Holy Trinity-- the Father, Son and Holy Spirit (also against Moses' Old Testament laws while they acknowledge Jesus as the Messiah, and the concept of the Immaculate conception, they reject the 'son of God' appellation because God didn't need to have a son, as He is all-powerful and omnipotent and can do anything. And there are some sects of Christianity that are non-Trinitarians.

I volunteer at an animal shelter with other volunteers from all walks of life, and we have some interesting theological discussions while the dogs pee.

They're less than 2% of the officers. They cant do that without fearing worse stuff from the other 95+% of the male officers. Its nice to support them, but not in illogical and dangerous ways.

Letusreason: You have to be one of those dedicated Islamic psycho's. If you were able to read the Koran, you just may discover that you have been following a pervert name Mohammad. Isn't it fun to rape, pillage and loot you own family members??

Ed, you miss the point that Letusreason is unfortunately exactly right. We eventually have to leave because it is not our place to police the world, no matter how "wrong" we think things are in some regions. And when that day comes, these women and others who have supported our ideals in that region will suffer a terrible backlash. Currently we are taking heat for trying to police the world. When we leave we will take heat for abandoning them. It is a lose-lose for us, but that ding on our reputation is in no way even remotely comparable to the suffering these human beings will face unless they band together and fight to uphold the same ideals we've promoted.

Once the NATO forces leave, it will be worse than 2001.

Just see the revenge Paki proxy Taliban will take in Afghanistan!

Ed. Try actually reading what I wrote. Take an anger management class.

I just wish more than our hearts could reach them.

So we need to keep away from Syria, Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan and other Muslim basket case nations at least for a decade.

Also close the gates on them.

So what, too bad so sad for the women that were born there? I know there is not much we can do, but doing nothing will never change anything.

Male policemen (the perps) also have guns, in a 'society' with a male-dominated, 7th century tribal mindset.

Male dominated feudal society with high Islamic heroin dosage are most dangerous combinations as we are noticing in Pakistan, Afghanistan and other Muslim nations.

If the female officer kills one male officer, then whole gangs of officers will be on her.

Seriously, these stupid, Ladies kill them, mentality is dangerous and not going to solve anything. They are less than 2% of the officers. They will be raped and beaten more if they do that.

If you mean there are rapes in the US, then okay, but the difference is that in the muslim countries there are many more times the rape per capita, and the incidence of a rape case there being prosecuted is totally unlikely.

In the US, a reported rape is investigated, and if substantiated it is prosecuted. In Islam, it is a sacrament.

Look on the bright side, at least the women who are raped aren't being stoned to death for being a whore anymore. That's progress, right?

Duke of Windsor:

In the US, a reported rape is investigated, and if substantiated it is prosecuted.

Unless, of course, the prosecuting authorities think the victim was 'asking for it'.

There was an article some months back about a 14 year old girl gang-raped in TX by a gang of 20 males, 14 adults and six juveniles. The males threatened that if she told they would kill her family, and as her mother was sick in the hospital and her father unemployed, and she was trying to take care of two little sisters (and there were some reports that they may have been homeless) she never told anyone until one of her classmates went to a teacher with a cellphone video taken by one of her attackers of her being raped with a bottle. The authorities declined to prosecute at first as the juveniles were stars of the local high school football team, and as stories circulated of her wearing makeup and trying to look older, and it wasn't until the lead investigator went over his boss's head and took it to state authorities that anyone was arrested and prosecution began. Opinion is still riding high in that town that this girl 'asked for it' by wearing makeup and older-looking clothes and because she never told anyone what was going on and has hindered the investigation.

In Islam, it is a sacrament.

No, it's not. See my above post at 1.23. It's a crime punishable by scourging/beating or stoning.

Amanda,

They didnt want to persecute the boys because she was as willing as they were. They wanted to punish the men because it was statutory rape. Im not saying she was asking for it at all. But some accounts say that the juveniles were as innocent as her.

The first time she went over to one of the juvenile's apartments yes, she was willing. The kid's parents came home and he took her to the abandoned trailer outside town and others joined him. She said no but they threatened to kill her family and/or take her little sister if she told anyone.

Come on, what 14 year old wants to be videotaped being raped with a bottle?

A ticket given to a muslim riding a speeding camel? "What? What's a ticket! What's speeding? I can't read! I can't write!"

The literacy rate is one of the main factors in the hold the fanatic imams have over the people. If you can't read your holy book for yourself, you have to trust that your religious leader is telling the truth when he says you're going to have 72 virgins if you martyr yourself.

Only when they learn to read the Qu'ran for themselves do they find out;

a3.3 The Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) said: "The first person judged on Resurrection Day will be a man martyred in battle.

"He'll be brought forth, Allah will reacquaint him with His blessings upon him and the man will acknowledge them, where-upon Allah will say, 'What have you done with them?' to which the man will respond, 'I fought to the death for you.'

"Allah will reply, `You lie. You fought in order to be called a hero, and it has already been said.' Then he will be sentenced and dragged away on his face to be flung into the fire."

Muslims don't eat pig because the Bible says they can't, and the Qu'ran says they should follow the Torah and Gospel and Moses's laws.

Only this sort you must not eat out of those that chew the cud or that split the hoof, cloven: the camel and the hare and the rock badger, because they are chewers of the cud but do not split the hoof. They are unclean for you,. The pig also, because it is a splitter of the hoofbut there is no cud. It is unclean for you. None of their flesh must you eat, and their carcasses you must not touch. Deuteronomy 14: 7-8

"or any century". Good one Gina. :)

You must remember the women are also Muslims. They aren't stolen from decent countries, they grew up in the same households with the men. All those evil men were raised by muslim women. (do I need to say that muslim men don't concern themselves with child raising?) If they want free air, they can do something about it themselves, like other women everywhere else did.

Oh god get off the religion thing, it is their culture, it is bankrupt piece of crap country and after 10 years it still it. Let them all burn to hell. It is our involvement in those areas of the world that cause us problems. The US is 25 in infrastructure in the world, lets do nation building here.

Who's gunna fire them? The male police chiefs? We'll force them to accept the women, but not do anything to make it good for them. Good logic there.

yea well to be fair the bible says it is fine to rape women also but most christian/secular nations have managed to change that. My only conclusion is that it is secular part that has helped women the most. May the atheist insults begin

Not secular part, no you are not allowed to rape people in the Bible either. But nice try. You also cant in the Koran. Its just simple ignorant men wanting their control over women. Just like the crowds of rapists in Egypt. They know they can get away with the crime, so the sexually devoid men will use it as an opportunity to fulfill their needs.

I honestly dont get it. Dont they have moms and sisters? I would try to kill anyone who sexually abused them. But to them, women are property, and cheaper than cattle.

when women are considered property with no rights people treat them that way. Which is why so many american blacks are mixed race, during slavery and after black women just had to accept rape, as with native americans also. So get off the Islam causes this crap, just today I read an article that there were an estimated 35,000 rapes in Orthadox Serbia. It would be here if law and order suddenly dissappeared.

Sorry, but that creates too many problems. One, you thought the muslims were crazy now. Just wait till you try that. Two, make them give up their faith. Yeah, that'll happen. Three, we can feed and support all of them. Random solutions that will just cause more problems is not what we need right now.

and you are a stupid ignorant fool, please close your trailer door and shutup. You ever read a book in your life? Somehow I picture you living in the south so you should know better. Up until the 70s a white man would never be convicted of rape if the victim was black. During slavery it wasn't even a crime, hence even Thomas Jefferson fathered how many children??? For a long time out west, raping a native american woman was winked at, hence "tepee creeping" Why do you think there is so much mixed blood?? Only Islam? Today there was an article about 35,000 moslem women in Bosnia that were raped by the serbs. Oh there have been 40 prosecutions. What about Africa? The Japanese "comfort girls" the Nazi brothels. Latin America, the multiple wives of some mormon sects. Cut the crap, if you can de-humanize someone, you don't have to treat them like a human.