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Subscribe to RSSNBC's Ayman Mohyeldin has more on today's voting in Egypt on an Islamist-backed constitution that was drafted by President Mohammed Morsi. Journalist Mona Eltahawy and Rula Jebreal then join MSNBC to weigh in on the situation.
Updated 10:30 p.m. ET: CAIRO - As Egypt on Saturday held a final voting round on a new constitution drafted by an assembly dominated by Islamists, the country's vice president resigned, according to government-run television.
Mahmoud Mekki, a judge, had said he intended to quit if the new constitution, which eliminates the post of vice president, was adopted.
But a statement attributed to Mekki hinted that his hurried departure might be linked to the policies of Islamist President Mohammed Morsi.
He said he first submitted his resignation last month but events forced him to stay on.
Preliminary results released Sunday by Morsi's party, the Muslim Brotherhood, showed that the disputed constitution had received a "yes" majority of more than 70 percent in the second and final round of voting.
An official from Egypt's main opposition group, which campaigned against the constitution, also said that its unofficial count indicated the document was approved.
"I have realized a while ago that the nature of politics don't suit my professional genesis as a judge," he wrote.
Saturday's vote followed a first-round vote last Saturday that unofficial results showed as giving 57 percent approval for the constitution.
The preliminary results, posted on the Brotherhood's website early Sunday and reported by The Associated Press, show that eight of the 25 million Egyptians eligible to vote -- a turnout of about 30 percent -- cast their ballots Saturday. Official results won't be known for several weeks.
The vote has been staggered, with about half the 51 million eligible voters covered in each round, because many judges needed to supervise the vote have boycotted the polls to protest the referendum in sympathy with the opposition.
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At polling stations, strong sentiments for and against
Analysis: Egypt is rapidly approaching its own 'cliff'
Christians, liberals left out as Islamists back Egypt's draft constitution
The opposition said voting in the first round was littered with abuses. Officials overseeing the poll said there were no major irregularities.
"I'm voting 'no' because Egypt can't be ruled by one faction," said Karim Nahas, 35, a stock market broker, heading to a polling station in Giza, a province included in this round of voting which covers parts of greater Cairo.
"Had the constituent assembly been representative of all Egyptians in the first place, we wouldn't have been in this situation," he said, after deadly violence marred the build-up to the referendum.
Liberals, Christians and others quit the drafting assembly, which was dominated by the Muslim Brotherhood and other Islamist allies of Morsi, saying their voices were not being heard.
Television footage showed some early queues at polling stations in areas of the country covered by this stage of the poll.
If the constitution is approved, a parliamentary election will follow in about two months.
Reuters and the Associated Press contributed to this report.
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Let the games begin. I predict that there will be blood shed and more disruption. Islamists are trying to take countries one by one and eventually they will lose. The whole thing is stupid. Let's get the US out of this crap, let these idiots kill one another and then deal with the aftermath.
Since the early 1960s, Muslim Brotherhood members and sympathizers have moved to Europe and slowly but steadily established a wide and well-organized network of mosques, charities, and Islamic organizations. Unlike the larger Islamic community, the Muslim Brotherhood's ultimate goal may not be simply "to help Muslims be the best citizens they can be," but rather to extend Islamic law throughout Europe and the United States.
The North Africa/Middle East to Iran Caliphate is nearly complete.....Glenn Beck was right....he was ridiculed and demonized by the PC media....now his prediction has become the headline of current events....
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/beck-on-the-global-caliphate-a-year-later-if-im-wrong-we-bought-extra-food-if-theyre-wrong-we-die/
http://mediamatters.org/blog/2011/02/01/in-egypt-protests-beck-sees-a-new-islamic-calip/175791
You said "may not", but you meant "is not". Why not say it outright.
I'll bet it's not.
Considering that the countries in those regions are split between the heavily antagonistic Sunni and Shia sects of Islam, I say that an "North Africa/Middle East to Iran Caliphate" is about half as likely as the Cubs winning the World Series, and we know that will never happen.
Glen Beck is and will remain profoundly ridiculous. The credence gullible people give to him and his half-baked ideas is a sad comment on the average intelligence of this nation.
dman,
Well said, it is indeed truly sad the low level of what has become of "average" intelligence. IQ is going down across the country. People like Beck, the NRA, the Tea Party, Sarah Palin, Todd Akin, and the list goes on show just how pathetic are the low IQ leaders.
The 52% who voted AGAIN for Mr. Obama has the lowest IQ and are the most uniformed people on the plant. PERIOD.
Back to the article.
Yep, Egypt will be governed by Sharia Law. Thanks, Mr. Obama.
dman-353357 & William-360414.....
The clerics of Egypt disagree with you....they are ecstatic about the coming Caliphate....
"Published on Jun 26, 2012
CALIPHATE- Cleric Introduces Egypt's New President, Morsi - Our Capital -Shall Be Jerusalem-"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caM_w5awWQY
What say you ???
You can't ignore the truth just because you don't like my source...
Syria follows, then Jordan....Turkey is on the verge....
What plant, IDO?
I love poinsettia plants around this time of year, but they tend to fade and die in January. Maybe a perennial would be the better choice.
Let me know. I value your advice greatly.
Let´s hope that the Muslim Revolution is brought down in Egypt. For the good of the Egyptian people,the region and the whole world.Let´s hope the Muslim Brotherhood goes back to where they came from..i.e prison.Even if they did win the election ( which is doubtful) they can´t use it to put in a police state and efectively cancel out the opposition and brutally repress dissidents ,Christians.women.and many other groups.They are only one poltical party. Bring in a pluralistic secular state and throw these mafia type brainwashed finatics out on their fannies.
So, Mike in Delray, if Egyptian Clerics predict it, it must be true. Were you one of those awaiting the end of the world yesterday?
I don't doubt that some religious extremists desire the reestablishment of the Caliphate, but they cannot change reality any more than you or Glen Beck.
Egypt is a nation of 82 million people, and is predominantly Sunni Muslim. Iran the nation which rivals it in population and far exceeds it in oil resources, is Shia. Pakistan is predominantly Sunni. Iraq is predominantly Shia, but with a strong Sunni minority.
It may have escaped your attention, but adherents of these sects do not like or trust one another. Moreover, the Middle East is also split along ethnic lines, with Arabs, Indo-Europeans (Iranians, Afghans and Pakistanis) and Turks. There is bad blood between these groups going back centuries.
These varied populations are not about to unite, not today, not tomorrow, or at any time in my lifetime.
Nasser attempted to unite parts of the Arab world back in the 50s, and failed miserably. It did not work then. It won't work now.
Liberals still think Egypt is " DOING FINE".
Just like the private sector.
On a positive note my states unemployment is almost down to 10% officially.
To bad a hundred thousand people had to move away to get us to that number.
you got that right. the party begin .please tell new York times and us policy maker whom they believe that Muslim brotherhood are moderate Muslim who are seeking democracy. again democracy does not co exist with Islam
A theocracy cannot morph into a democracy. But the Muslim Brotherhood never wanted a democracy to start with.
dman, you're delusional if you think the factions in the Middle East hate each other more than they hate every non-Muslim society! Are you one of those Obamabots who think if we just hold out our hand in friendship everything will be just fine? Good luck with that!
It is the will of the people there such as it shall be.
I'm a liberal, and I do not think Egypt is doing just fine. In fact, I'm appalled at what's going on there, and so are my fellow liberals.
I agree that the Muslim Brotherhood doesn't want a democracy, and I get pretty tired of people thinking a country is on its way to democracy simply because a lot of people vote. I would not call either Iraq or Afghanistan a democracy at this point in the road, yet both places have a semblance of a popular vote. As we have seen, and will see more, simply voting does not guarantee a democracy as we know it in the West.
Democracy is an extremely sophisticated form of government, and the people we see struggling with the concept now are barely one or two generations removed from the Stone Age. I say this on the authority of family members who have lived in such places; lived for several years, not toured. Their loyalties are to the family and the tribe or clan. Until their loyalties are shifted to the state, there will be no democracy, as we know and understand it in the West.
I am terrified at the notion that people from other countries wish to come here and force a change in our laws to accommodate their notion of what is right. I hear of banks offering Sharia-compliant loans and a chill runs down my spine. If the borrowers wanted that sort of a loan, they should have stayed in a part of the world where that kind of loan is common. The point in coming here should be to assimilate into our culture, otherwise they might just as well have stayed where they were. And honor killings in this country should be punished as severely as possible. No room for that kind of nonsense here.
The people in the Middle East have been fighing with each other for millennia. The Old Testament in the Bible is largely a chronicle of these fights. And since the 7th century, when the Islamic world split between Sunnis and Shia, the fights have turned even more vicious, if that were possible. Both sides are fanatics about their beliefs and their world view, and fanatics do not compromise, ever. Add into that the ethnic hostilities that dman (above) has noted, and there will be no rest for anyone in that part of the world for many, many years. We (the US) are fools to think we can help them into democracy. Not gonna happen.
My liberal friends and I all think we should get out of the Middle East and stay out. Nothing, absolutely nothing, we can do will make a difference there. Until the natives themselves want a difference, no amount of pressure from the outside will make a change. This is why, in those countries that seem reasonably stable (a relative term), the stability is almost always enforced by a dictator, or someone who looks to the outside world like a dictator. Ahmedinijan may have been popularly elected, but the guy who rules (not governs, rules) Iran is really the Grand Ayatollah -- a religious dictator.
Again, look at Egypt as a prime example. The people rose up and threw out Mubarak, who was essentially a dictator. A year of chaos, and now we face an even worse dictatorial regime in the Muslim Brotherhood. There aren't enough people in Egypt to sustain a true secular democracy, and if the Muslim Brotherhood has its way, there won't be for centuries. I do not exaggerate. A revolution is defined as one complete turn around, with the ending point being the same as the starting point.
The "plant" is under the Obama mushroom where the Progressives live.
And the civil war will begin in 5....4....3....2....1.............................
Time for Israel to completely destroy the tunnels into Gaza, and really clamp down on Gaza and the west bank.
That was yesterday????? What are we still doing here
OldDog47, 'delusional' is not a word to throw around lightly. As I look around the Middle East, from Tunisia to Pakistan, I see no such coalescing of "generic Muslims", regardless of sect, tribe or ethnic identity. If a few clerics are in Cairo are dancing around predicting the rise of "the New Caliphate", so what? They are ignoring over a millennium of human history, and so are you.
Maybe in your world Iraq and Iran did not fight a vicious war between 1980 and 1988, a conflict which utilized a broad array of what are now termed Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD), and cost an estimate half million lives. But in my "delusional" world this war did occur, and I think it highly unlikely that these two nations are likely to unite.
So, you take all your talk about "Obamabots" and "the New Caliphate", and either embroider it on a tea cozy, or print on a bumper sticker. I'm unimpressed.
I'm not happy with the internal politics of Egypt, but neither am I running about spotting the carpet.
with Iran able to close the straits of Hormuz and now Islamics in total control of the Suez canal, we could see a major disruption in world commerce, the crescent is now almost complete; then the push will be to eliminate Israel, the real war is just around the corner, Washington is very busy approving money to study the mating habits of the red tree frog to worry about such other things going on.
Good luck with that, wont happen, it's been tried before and I have no doubt it will be tried again, Israel will stand, and all of Jerusalem will be the capital. Worked out really well in '67 and '73, if a new generation of muslims needs to learn that they will. If you want to point to the skirmish in Lebanon and the recent skirmish with Gaza remember one thing, Hezbollah and Hamas were fighting all out while Israel was only sparring, when Israel takes off the gloves it will be the end of both of them, and without Syria propping up Hezbollah they wont last 3 days, do you really think Lebanon wants them causing trouble in the south of their country. Iran's nuclear program will not be an issue, 1 air force mission will turn Iran chaotic, Is Iran ready to fight a war and have an internal uprising at the same time. The majority of the Iranian people want Ajmedenijad ant the Ayatollah's gone, they want a secular society, remember the protest's a couple of years ago.
People are forever impatient - always demanding what their freedoms they can have.
People never seem to understand that there should be economic growth and financial independence before there can be political rights and freedom.
The Egyptian leaders should have political power to move the country toward economic prosperity and keep Egyptian people's focus on this goal, and this goal only. The massive demonstration and occupation of a sumbolic sqaure is pure silly, if not totally harmful.
What do these occupiers want? total anarchy? mob rule?
Huh??????????????????? try Democracy. Democracy does not require a financial boom, it requires respect for your fellow man and tolerance of people different than you.
Hey, #1.26
?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
U R kidding, right?
Did you say let us deal with the aftermath? You're an idiot! If anything we should be telling them to vote with their hearts not their fists. Things go better when everyone treats everyone else the way you want to be treated. The problem is if no one votes no the Islamist will win and there will be another dictator for the next 40 years. The same goes if everyone just quits trying to make the changes they want happen! What ever the out come it's not our place to deal with it. They will and should live as they please.
Obviously you have forgotten about the fight for democracy here. Just one case in point may be enough. Only 50 years ago, the evil segregationists still dominated most of the American south. There were many innocent people lynched, or starved to death, or died in many other ways as a result of the evil of segregation. I can't imagine how soon Americans forget, decide to teach others about justice and democracy, and decide to criticize others for some lesser problems.
Without financial prosperity and equality, there is no democracy to speak of.
Not at all, being a naturalized citizen, coming from a racist, theocratic, democratic dictatorship(no its not a contradiction in terms) that is now a twisted democracy(no respect for each other) I might have a little insight into the situation. The fight for equal rights was not a fight for democracy, it was a fight to be recognized as equal and to take part in the democracy that already existed. The War of Independence was not a war for democracy it was a war for independence from England. The forefathers wrote the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, that created our democracy, not a financial boom.
What? (to #1.30)
It was money first for the Founding Brothers. They made a Republic for their money scheme. Democracy was never intended. Actually democracy was a bad word for them, meaning mob rule. Democracy is still not achieved yet. If achieved, democracy will be the last.
Strange how all your posts have 1 "like" right after you post them, pat yourself on the back much, and no I am noy changing the subject I am just not willing to debate some one is is blinded by their own "expertise".
Typo: noy = not
Confussed-1578043
It doesn't matter how they vote, the constitution will be passed, the real question is what will the military do, they hold the real power right now.
As you said, and it is their country so we don't have a say. It is sad tho when half the population of a country want to force the other half to live under Shariah law, instead of agreeing on laws that would be fair for everyone, including non-Muslims, and women.
Pigotry - I have to agree with Antistupidity. Prosperity is not a requirement for democratic institutions or personal freedom. In 1776, the United States, while not poor, was a far less wealthy country than was England. What we had, was greater economic parity among our citizens, at least in the non slave-holding states. Interestingly, it was in the southern, slave-holding states, that support for British rule remained strongest.
What is required to maintain a democracy is equality of both political and economic power. When too much economic might is concentrated in too few hands, the political power will slowly follow.
As to personal freedoms, the Egyptians are making their own decisions as to what personal freedoms will be protected and guaranteed in their new constitution. If this document fails to give what we regard as sufficient protection for religious freedom, that is due to the tyranny of the majority, which is always an issue in a democratic government. In our own Constitution, we originally accorded no right to vote for women, and actually counted black slaves as the fractional equivalents of free, white citizens.
Well, it is their country. They, the Egyptians, will have to make their own decisions regarding what manner of society they will have. We can decry the omissions, and make allegations of rigged conventions and referendums. But we cannot control the process and their decisions as what guarantees to place on religious freedom will have very little to do with the prosperity of Egyptian society, but rather with the religious attitudes of the Egyptian people.
Hmmm, do you think the voting process in Egypt is somewhat similar to that in Iran and Florida?
Roadhouse I live in Florida, sadly I have to agree.
again you cant have a democracy with islamists
it will never happen
#1 their agenda has to do with believe in my god or die "WTF"
#2 you dont like it refer back to #1
#3 if you cannot give up die in the name of god you will go no where
humans always have an excuse to kill others, how about this i killed you cause im an idiot, this has nothing to do with god so stop using god to commit murder
#4 and this is the big one {the muslims, the jews, and the christians all believe in abraham bringing in the word of the one true god} yet they kill each other over the one god belief??
goes to show the true agenda of these people.
its what man wants and not what god wants, wow talk about god fearing people!!! NOOOOOOOOOT
treat everyone like a brother and sister and watch the hate and killing fade away
oh but that wont happen humans are idiots and dont fear god till their death bed including myself
but one thing i dont do is force my beliefs onto others {god is between me and god and no one else)
so i try to follow what god wants
oh the muslims and the jews and the christians all forgot about the 10 COMMANDMENTS!!!
try reading them one day and see where you fu cked up
1. Mohammad brought his word to the muslims not Abraham.
2. Muslims do not believe in the 10 commandments, they have their on rules.
As for some people finding god only when they are about to die, unfortunetly that is sometimes true.
The roots of Islam are in Abraham. Muslims, Christians, and Jews are collectively called The People of the Book, and the Book to which they refer is the Pentateuch. Those three are also referred to as the Abrahamic religions in that they take their beginning from Abraham. I believe that all religions have some sort of moral code. For Christians and Jews it is the Ten Commandments. I haven't studied Islam in enough depth to know what their moral code is called, but I'd lay odds it looks a lot like the Ten Commandments.
Here I get into rumor and speculation, but I've heard some say that Islam was formed among the descendants of Ishmael, whom you may recall was the son of Abraham by Sarah's handmaid, Hagar. Abram threw both of them out when Sarah, his (apparently only) wife gave birth to Isaac. Of course, this may all be simply mythology to explain the religious and ethnic divisions in that part of the world.
@James-751534
Islam refers to Abraham and Moses as prophets(one who speaks for God), they believe Mohamed was the last prophet. Yeah it is screwed up as hell, Islam wants to murder every last member of the religion the prophets they believe in came from?????? Talk about being ass backward.
I hate to agree with you Keith but I grew up in Malaysia as a Muslim and you pretty much hit it on the nose. Tolerance there is in name only and only when economics are involved. I guess the only thing the non-Islamists will have to do is break away into their own country the way Singapore did so 70 years ago.
I have family members who've lived in Muslim (well, nominally secular, but, in fact Muslim) countries, and their experience is much like yours. Heathens (anybody who isn't Muslim) are tolerated only because they bring in money. Christian churches and Jewish synagogues are pretty much unmarked, and secured by heavy walls and lots of concertina wire. My family told me it was like going to church in a prison, and there was always the possibility of being bombed when exiting the compound.
Since Coptic Christians make up, we are told, about 10% of the population in Egypt, they have hard times ahead; much harder than they've already had, which has been no picnic.
Egypt will never be a democracy in our lifetimes; may our grandchildren's, but I wouldn't put any money on it. They were far better off when the British were pulling the strings for old King Farouk.
This is crap. 56% of the vote in favor with 32% voting in the December 15th phase? And you're going to base your entire system of government on that? Yeah I'd say this is rigged, and definitely not representative of anywhere close to a majority of the population.
Similar to our last election!
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
Nah worse than the old boss, at least Mubarak kept the radicals in check. They got fooled again.
It's starting to look allot like Syria..........Morsi will call the rigged win a MANDATE to slaughter Jews, Christians, & his own people...
it will be worst than syria
And worse, the main stream Liberal media won't publish a single utterance of it. Heck, they fail to mention how many Christians are slaughtered annually, just because they are Christians. Worst really, when you realize they were tried and convicted as Political prisoners.
And for any liberal that supports anything Muslim, keep in mind, they behead women that speak up against a man. It's actually not just in Sharia Law, but much of it is adapted into their actual law.
And homosexuality is punishable by death, too... and lie all they want, it's actually not an arbitrary thing, Mohammed actually dictates they are an abomination and must be killed.
Then again, it is fully acceptable to "Lie" is it furthers the cause of Islam. Once again, not an abstract thing, it is actually directly relayed that Mohammad justified his lying, as righteous to further the cause.
When people start to realize that the Koran is nothing more than Mohammad's Diary, and then you start to figure out why there people have problems with the different factions and so much conflicting information.
If someone to read any one of our diaries, and base religious beliefs off of everything I did over the 40+ years of life, they might find conflict, too. After all, live has a way of adjusting one's point of view, habits and thinking.
For the life of me I cant understand why Jews would live in Iraq, Egypt or any other muslim country when Israel will welcome them with open arms??????
I have to wonder what those of us in this country would do if we as a people elected those with hidden agendas as was done in Egypt ? Would we see the same fighting..or would we all be passive as much of the muslins of all eastern nations seem to be. I can not comprehend not having our rights..or women having no rights at all. But then lets consider that all religions seem to shut out women to positions of rule....such as the catholic church has done as others for years...making the same claims.. that God only chose men as leaders. Even in our own government women are just really beginning to take more places in congress than ever before. I can only hope that we as a people never give up the rights our forefathers fought for for us all. Everyone needs to consider that today and for years this nation has been run fairly well by those elected by us to oversee our government and do as we feel should be done to run this nation..this last elect however showed us all just how much money can be spent to try to overtake our government by millionaires who seek more power and money...we all need to stay wide awake and be mindful of all our rights and be sure to protect those..hopely by our diligance in voting.
Actually if you read the bible and understood the law of God, you would realize that God did not say Women can not be in leadership roles where government is concerned. God only states that women should not be leaders in the church. God does not say how men and women should run a country. He does not interfere with government created by man (women included.) He only dictates that Women should not be the ones to hold authority over man where the church is concerned.
Perhaps this has not been true, as much as we want or even need to believe it. If we look very carefully at how the natural wealth and resources were expended over that time, we always wonder if it was the resources that made the nation, allowing abundance to overcome power and greed. Now once wasted, we need to manage those resources to again produce wealth, but that effort is stopped by the power and greed we have been able to ignore in the past. Once what was free and open becomes owned and possessed, you have sold freedom to the owners and the possessors. We have two possibilities; one is to find a new Continent to exploit, and the other is to change who owns the country.
"It's not the people who vote that count. It's the people who count the votes." (Josef Stalin)
"Life is tough, it is even tougher when you are stupid." (John Wayne)
The sooner the civilized world realizes that islam is a virus, the better for all non-infected mankind. Science has never cured a virus, nor can it deal logically with someone who is infected with this evil doctrine. All humanity can do is isolate the virus, and pretty soon the virus will kill all of its carriers. No carriers.......no virus.
Egypt holds final vote on Islamists' new constitution. NO, its the RADICAL ISLAM constitution.
Since its founding in 1928, the Muslim Brotherhood (Hizb al-Ikhwan al-Muslimun) has profoundly influenced the political life of the Middle East. Its motto is telling: "Allah is our objective. The Prophet is our leader. The Quran is our law. Jihad is our way. Dying in the way of Allah is our highest hope."
While the Brotherhood's radical ideas have shaped the beliefs of generations of Islamists, over the past two decades, it has lost some of its power and appeal in the Middle East, crushed by harsh repression from local regimes and snubbed by the younger generations of Islamists who often prefer more radical organizations.
all they believe is jihad. the civil war is coming to Egypt
I hope no one gets gipped. Gypt. Egypt.
Four decades of teaching and cultivation have paid off. The student refugees who migrated from the Middle East forty years ago and their descendants now lead organizations that represent the local Muslim communities in their engagement with Europe's political elite. Funded by generous contributors from the Persian Gulf, they preside over a centralized network that spans nearly every European country.
These organizations represent themselves as mainstream, even as they continue to embrace the Brotherhood's radical views and maintain links to terrorists. With moderate rhetoric and well-spoken German, Dutch, and French, they have gained acceptance among European governments and media alike. Politicians across the political spectrum rush to engage them whenever an issue involving Muslims arises or, more parochially, when they seek the vote of the burgeoning Muslim community.
What most European politicians fail to understand is that by meeting with radical organizations, they empower them and grant the Muslim Brotherhood legitimacy. There is an implied endorsement to any meeting, especially when the same politicians ignore moderate voices that do not have access to generous Saudi funding. This creates a self-perpetuating cycle of radicalization because the greater the political legitimacy of the Muslim Brotherhood, the more opportunity it and its proxy groups will have to influence and radicalize various European Muslim communities. The ultimate irony is that Muslim Brotherhood founder Hassan al-Banna dreamed of spreading Islamism throughout Egypt and the Muslim world. He would have never dreamed that his vision might also become a reality in Europe.
Obama first reached out to the Brotherhood when he chose the leader of a Muslim Brotherhood-linked group that had been named an unindicted co-conspirator in a Hamas terror funding case to give a prayer during his inauguration ceremonies. Ingrid Mattson, then-president of the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA), offered this prayer at the National Cathedral on Obama's Inauguration Day—despite the fact that the ISNA has admitted its ties to the Brotherhood. The previous summer, federal prosecutors rejected a request from the ISNA to remove its unindicted co-conspirator status.
Obama didn't ask Mattson to explain the ISNA's links to the Muslim Brotherhood and Hamas. On the contrary: He sent his senior adviser, Valerie Jarrett, to be the keynote speaker at the ISNA's national convention in 2009.
Vallerie is another one I recomend you research. As well as Bill Ayeres.
Merry Christmas and God Bless
The beginnings of religious dictatorship in Egypt
There are many things that divide us, and of those things that divide us many are created by men, and of those it could be proposed that all of manmade divisions are either wrong or suspect.
So when we read what commenters have written, we are always astonished, that if there were heard by wrathful creator, their mouths would made to pour sand and make no further sound.
Such a creator would have cut short creation itself, and have undone creation to repeal what an introspective creator would have found a terrible mistake.
But this is the world we are in, and in this world man has been given the power of reason, a power that when used occasionally produces these very profound questions. It is the question of something paired with its opposite. It is just a fluke that a vote to eliminate the post of vice president would be accompanied by the vice president quitting that post. Eliminate and the quit, just two words jumped off the page, but it revealed that the creator created a being that was capable of being rational. This rational capability is not the same as reaching for a fruit and deciding it was ripe or not and leaving for another. It is not the same because the rational capability goes beyond the tangible fruit, but onto abstraction transcending the material world. The temporal order of "if eliminating the post I will quit the post" makes no sense, but it is quite possible for it to happen. Be that as it may it could have gone unnoticed, but it allows us to see the absurd.
Those things that divide us are absurd, but we are unsteady when we stand on rational thinking, we don't do it correctly, it helps us occasionally. It is clear enough we live in the real world requiring us to pick the fruit when it is ripe, the consequences being known. But when we fail rationality when considering abstract things we see no consequences.
So it true that real world has consequences, but the abstract world has no consequence, except when it interferes with the real world.
Egypt of all the places on the world, with as much history has it has, should be the one place where attending to the real world of fruit and plenty should be held above the equally well known abstract world.
It is just not possible for all the sand pouring from the mouths, to vote for the real world of fruit and plenty, since they cannot be heard above the drifting sand the murmuring that the absurd should not displace the real.
he resigned. mersi get another fanatic to take his position
@RichMJones@rcn.com
The species wasn't given anything, what "has evolved" is our ability to reason. Obviously the "religious" of the world populous,Islam, Christianity and the like, have a long road ahead of them when it comes to reasoning!
If the constitution is approved, a parliamentary election will follow in about two months......
wanna bet.......
Oh, I'll bet all right. I'll bet that every last member of that parliament will be a member of the Muslim Brotherhood.
I've noticed some unambiguous anti-Islam tone in some comments, rather than an anti-Muslim Brotherhood one. dm353357 has tried to provide some enlightenment by utilizing historical fact, as well as a knowledge of geo-politics and the role of ethnicity. Maybe now would be a good time to remind folk of something (like others on this thread have tried to do when anti-Islam rears its head): consider the state of Christianity when it was the same age as Islam is now.
Consider the planet is no longer in the dark ages and Islam used to be a much more accepting and innovative religion, They are regressing.
Is this part of the arab spring the democrats used to brag about (that we dont hear about any more)? Nobody ever talks about the arab spring anymore how come?
I like how the author implies he quit because of the political divide, when in fact his position would be dissolved after the constitution was confirmed. Most likely Morsi will appoint him the new Chief prosecutor or to the highest Egyptian Court.
There is hardly any posts on this board does everyone not understand how important this stuff is. The Middle East is going through a process where the peoples voices are becoming more and more powerful and educated. We have many deep interests in that part of the globe besides our oil buisness. It is in eveyone's best interst to keep educated peaceful happy masses around the globe. Tyranny reigns supreme out there to this day. There is an estimated 300,000 african slaves in the middle east. Castration is a common practice amongst many other barberic measures of control. Im sure you find just normal people anywhere you go into the normal homes of any country. But the monsters that rule the land need to be toppled. I hope im alive when i can really see some real progress at stopping censorship of the average muslim woman
Arab Spring, to me, means the elimination of a dictator(by any other name). Whatever your emphasis, slaves or financially raping the people, eliminating the dictator is the key. The Arab Winter is what it takes to change. I'm not a fan of Sharia Law or Islam, but a structured gov't using democracy is a start. Tunisia may be a good start.
The Arab Spring is gone it is now the Arab Winter, a very long and terrible freeze of individual liberties and religious intolerance.
Now this is a Winter of Discontent.
And it will not be made glorious summer by anyone; that's the rub.
Billions a year sent to Egypt. If he walks like a tyrant, sounds like a tyrant, smells like a tyrant- guess what- he's a tyrant. I'd send them ZILCH! Persecute your own people, tghreaten the entire mideast with support of Hamas. The Muslim Brotherhood- guess what Osama's successor- that's his crowd. They've been around for decades. They killed Sadat and want to eliminate Israel.
Wait! They'll bring more mass killings under the guise of Consitutional reform. They have the number sna d the guns. You only need the guns.
We have to send them money.
It's obvious we have too much of it laying around.
What? Egyptians don't want to be ruled by the Saudi Royal Family & be included in their growing Muslim Kingdom?
Bob. It sure is Fuked up what is happening. White House doesn't seemed bothered by it though.
Middle East is crumbling
America is heading off a cliff.
Barack is going to Hawaii on vacation.
Can't understand the whole world getting so upset over something written centuries ago by men who were in some cases pretty obviously looking for a way to control a large group of people. It's all sheep sacrificing and eye for an eye stuff. Yet these men must have been geniuses because centuries later here we are still trying to figure out exactly how many cows we owe our neighbor if we accidentally kill his mule. Can anyone who reads this honestly, with a straight face now, say that it applies to today's world? There's a story in the Christian bible about a man traveling with his wife and along the way she is violated by people from several of the towns they pass through. When they finally make it home she dies. So he takes her body and cuts it into pieces and sends a piece of it to each of the leaders in the town. And he's the good guy in this story. Say what? You guys should actually open up the book and read it a little bit before basing your life on it. It is a whole lot of craziness, yet some are willing to die for it.
To bad it is punishable by death to not agree with the "CRAYON BOOK"
Yes obviously they don't believe in the 10 commandments,especially"Do no KILL". Sub-human savages is what they r>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>period!!!!
Which country is more fukkered up?
Iraq- president died 3 days ago and his replacement isn't allowed in his own country for running death squads.
Syria- over 40,000 dead and they are sitting on a mountain of chemical weapons
Egypt- Taken over by a terrorist organization and have a military funded by the U.S. and they are neighbors to Israel.
Libya- infrastructure destroyed by us to install leaders who will sell us oil. Assassinated our Ambassador and we did nothing.
Afghanistan- We will have over 10,000 troops there for at least 12 more years. Most U S deaths are from soldiers we are training.
Pakistan- 120 Plutonium warheads and we keep poking them in the eye with sharp sticks/DRONES.
Iran- The country who funds jihads everywhere and is trying to build the bomb to attack Israel.
Yemen- Normal stupid radicals with a strategic position to screw up the flow of oil.
It is my opinion that Egypt and Pakistan are the 2 most dangerous and could start the largest wars.
The others are all piss ants.