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Getty Images, file
All of these things have been banned in Pakistan at one time or another. Clockwise from top left: Long-haired musicians, 'The Da Vinci Code,' kite-flying, Salman Rushdie's 'Satanic Verses,' India (usually in the form of its newspapers and TV channels) and alcohol.
ISLAMABAD, Pakistan — Last month, it was cellphones. Before that, it was motorcycles, shawls and jackets. Earlier this year, it was the BBC, Twitter and YouTube. In 2011, it was porn websites. In 2010, it was Facebook. In the 1990s, it was Indian television and musicians with long hair. In the 1980s, it was Salman Rushdie's "Satanic Verses." And in the 1970s, it was booze.
All banned. In Pakistan. By Pakistan.
Through the decades. Pakistan's state and non-state actors have found a way to regulate, boycott, ban or completely outlaw technology, information, literature, media and even entire communities.
The result? The Islamic Republic of Pakistan, once imagined as a secular, democratic haven for India's minority Muslim population, may well have become the land of "Banistan."
Babar Sattar, a Harvard-educated lawyer, is one of "Zia's Children" — the generation who grew up during the 1970s and 1980s when the culture of forbiddance took root through ironclad legislation passed by the country's Islamist dictator of the time, Muhammad Zia-ul-Haq.
"The proclivity to ban is the continuing manifestation of expanding religion-driven morality at the expense of personal liberty," Sattar told NBC News. "We don't even recognize that there exists a need not to allow collective outrage or shame to pillage individual rights."
Here's an A to Z of what's been curtailed in "Banistan."
Alcohol: Pakistan was a pretty wet place until the late premier Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto banned alcohol — days before he was removed by an Islamist general in a coup in 1977. Though a heavy drinker himself, Bhutto's ban was meant to move him closer to the religious margins of the country. The political strategizing didn't work for him (he was executed), but prohibition in Pakistan stuck. Still, booze is available for the connected and the rich.
The only brewery in Pakistan is a 150-year-old tradition. Business is booming despite strict prohibition laws. NBC's Amna Nawaz reports.
BlackBerry services: Pakistan's blasphemy laws are regarded as the toughest in the Muslim world. But when hundreds of websites were banned in May 2010 for "blasphemous content'" that was appearing on social networks, Pakistan decided to do away with BlackBerry services, too.
Cellphones: This year saw Pakistan's interior minister slam a blanket ban on cellphone services across the country to prevent handsets being used to detonate suicide bombs. On at least two religious occasions in 2012, Eid and Ashura, when terrorist attacks were expected, almost 120 million Pakistanis couldn't use their cellphones, even in case of emergency.
Arif Ali / AFP - Getty Images, file
Pakistani Christians shout slogans as they protest against the movie 'The Da Vinci Code' in Lahore on June 3, 2006. The screen adaptation for the bestselling book by the same name -- starring Tom Hanks as the professor who comes across the Jesus Christ/Mary Magdalene union imagined by author Dan Brown -- was banned in 2004.
'Da Vinci Code, The': The screen adaptation for the bestselling "The Da Vinci Code," starring Tom Hanks as the professor who comes across the Jesus Christ/Mary Magdalene union imagined by author Dan Brown, was banned in 2004.
In Pakistan's largest city, 'Old Glory' is flammable and profitable
Erotica: In 2011, the country's Internet regulator placed a blanket ban on thousands of pornography sites. Meanwhile, print and DVD/CD formats of porn are available across the country, and the country manages to maintain an underground porn industry.
Food [& Beverages]: As in much of the Muslim world, pork products are banned in Pakistan. But 2012 saw even some "Halal" products boycotted by a lawyers' association in Lahore as well the campus of a major university because they were made by Shezan foods, a brand owned by Pakistan's minority Ahmadi sect. (Ahmadis don't think that Mohammad is Islam's final prophet and have been persecuted by successive Pakistani governments for such ideas.) Other products, including Pepsi, were also boycotted for being "Jewish."
Gambling: Once legal, gambling is now banned (thanks in large part to late prime minister Bhutto's attempts to appease the religious right in the late 1970s). However, Pakistan is a joint capital (with India) of the lucrative illegal cricket betting industry in which millions bet billions, especially when archrivals India and Pakistan play.
Daniel Berehulak / Getty Images, file
Ali Azmat and Salman Ahmad of the rock band Junoon perform in Mumbai, India, in December 2003. The popular band and all musicians with long hair were banned in the 1990s.
Hair: In his own bid to transform what was left of secular Pakistan after the Islamist Zia regime, the 1990s saw prime minister Nawaz Sharif (tipped to be the next premier in upcoming elections) try to implement selective Shariah law by banning popular rock band, Junoon, and all musicians with long hair. The ban on Junoon was politically inspired, as it had campaigned for the financial accountability of those in elected office. But it all proved to be rather cosmetic. Rock and roll continued to flourish in Pakistan, and the shutdown only helped Junoon polish off their bad-boy image until they broke up. Meanwhile, Sharif got a hair transplant. The 2000s, however, saw a more complicated and violent hair ban, this time implemented in Pakistan's northwest by Taliban militants, who even bombed and fined barber shops for shaving men.
Pakistan's Generation Y battles to shape country's future
India: The world's largest democracy enjoys a special place in the Islamic Republic's banning regime. Some bans look to be permanent, including all Indian news channels, certain news websites and books, and all printed newspapers and magazines (India reciprocates most of these bans).
Muhammed Muheisen / AP
Images of daily life, political pursuits, religious rites and deadly violence.
Jokes: Forwarding a joke via text message, email or blog can result in a 14-year prison sentence. But only if it targets the country's leadership.
Rumors of plot to sterilize Muslims with polio vaccine sparks killings
Kites: The centuries-old spring festival of kite flying, Basant, based out of Pakistan's cultural capital Lahore, was also banned by the Supreme Court in 2005 when petitions were filed highlighting the dangerous after-effects of kite flying, including death by strangulation. The Supreme Court reversed the ban earlier this year.
Carl De Souza / AFP/Getty Images
A boy flies a kite on a hill overlooking a large relief camp run by The National Rural Support Program in September 2010.
LGBT rights: Rights for the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender community are curbed by social taboos in the Islamic Republic, but Pakistan's laws don't help either. The colonial-era Pakistan Penal Code of 1860, designed by the British, imposes a prison sentence for sodomy. But while lesbians have been low-profile in their run-ins with the law of the land, Pakistani transgenders made history in 2012 by successfully lobbying for a landmark Supreme Court judgment in their favor that allows them to both identify themselves and vote as a third sex -- transgender, and not male or female, as they were forced to in the past.
Minorities: First legally pronounced to be non-Muslims in the 1970s, the persecuted Ahmadi sect was further limited in its actions and exercise of religious freedoms by several laws in the 1980s. They were not allowed to say the Muslim greeting aloud, nor call their houses of worship mosques. Ahmadis continue to be targets of notorious blasphemy laws, under which other religious minorities, particularly Christians, are also targeted.
Nipples: Customs agents usually redact images of female nipples from foreign publications available on local newsstands. Bottoms usually are overlooked, but full-frontal nudity is not.
Osama: As the embarrassment of Operation Neptune Spear set in after May 2011, Pakistani authorities first cordoned off Bin Laden's Abbottabad compound, then forbade foreigners in Abbottabad, then forbade non-Abottabadis in Abbotabad, then forbade all and sundry from visiting the location. Finally, they just razed the building.
One year after Osama bin Laden's death, questions remain about his life at the heavily guarded compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan. NBC'S Amna Nawaz reports.
Parties: According to the regulators of the largest housing authority in Pakistan's largest city, "Marriages Ceremony," "Dance Party," and "Musical Evenings" are not allowed for citizens inside their own homes. However, "Birthday Party" and "Quran Khwani / Dars" (Quran recitals and religious lectures) are.
Quran burning: Pakistan's blasphemy laws, considered the toughest in the Islamic world, carry a potential death sentence for anyone insulting Islam. When a Christian teenage girl with limited learning abilities was accused of burning and desecrating the Quran, riots and controversy followed as the case of young Rimsha, initially charged with blasphemy, developed into a complicated legal battle. But it soon became became evident that an imam, who wanted Christians like Rimsha out of his neighborhood, had planted evidence on her.
For many Pakistanis, 'USA' means 'drones'
Raymond Davis (along with other intelligence contractors and diplomats): When CIA contractor Raymond Davis shot and killed two petty criminals in broad daylight in Lahore in January 2011, the anti-American uproar was so severe that the United States had to dispatch its best diplomats, including John Kerry, to negotiate his release. And although Davis was let go only through the traditional Islamic method of payment of blood money to the victims' relatives, Pakistan subsequently clamped down on the movement and deployment of all Western diplomats, officials and contractors. Today, if you work for the U.S., or the Argentinian, or the Jamaican embassy, you will have to obtain a "No Objection Certificate" to attend a dinner if it's even one town over from where you are stationed.
Raymond Davis, a CIA contractor who was charged with fatally shooting two men in Pakistan, has been released from prison after relatives of the victims agreed to a deal. NBC's Carol Grisanti reports.
Social media: With almost 20 million Internet connections that reach even deep inside the volatile tribal areas adjoining Afghanistan, Pakistani authorities have tried in vain to regulate social media. And although Facebook recently shut down a page used for recruiting by the Pakistani Taliban, the government has never directly acted to disconnect those who support terror via social networks.
Demonstrators shout slogans and wave placards as they protest against Facebook in Lahore in May 2010.
Shawls: In what was dubbed by the national press as the most desperate of recently taken security measures, a district in Pakistan's northwest actually banned coats and shawls, even in the dead of winter, under British colonial-era law designed for maintaining public discipline and security. The reason: their possible use to hide suicide jackets under the bulky clothing during a sensitive religious holiday.
Can social media propel 'rock star' politician Imran Khan to power in Pakistan?
Urinating: The absence of public toilets across the country, as well as the spread and social acceptance of a rural 'go anywhere' culture has created a messy challenge for government after government in Pakistan: how to stop millions from answering the call of nature when and where they please. The answer? A national ban, with threat of prosecution.
Vaccinations: Days before 161,000 children were about to inoculated for polio this summer, the Taliban banned the vaccination campaign. Even though Pakistan remains one of the three countries in the world that still carries the debilitating virus, militants continue to target and kill anti-polio campaigners, claiming that the program is a U.S. cover for espionage, similar to the CIA using a Pakistani physician to help locate Osama bin Laden in Abbotabad last year.
It's been a tough year for Pakistan U.S. relations. Crucial NATO supply routes have been shuttered since November, there is tension over drone strikes and now the countries are at odds over the treason conviction of the Pakistani doctor who helped the U.S. locate Osama Bin Laden.
Weddings: Forget the five-course wedding dinner. Pakistan -- once the land of extravagant, multi-event weddings -- has a law that doesn't allow for more than one entrée at a wedding feast. The policy has been in place for several years but is only now being implemented earnestly by a provincial government that is focused on battling food wastage.
More Pakistan coverage from NBC News
XXX: As porn is outlawed in Pakistan, "Tripple" is the code word nationally accepted for under-the-counter DVD and magazine purchases that are naughtier than usual.
YouTube: YouTube is the only social networking site that continues to be blanket-banned in Pakistan since its owner, Google Inc., refused to block an anti-Islamic video last September. But Vimeo, YouTube's competitor network that offers similarly "blasphemous" material, remains rather functional and legal in Pakistani cyberspace.
'Zero Dark Thirty': Though the new Kathryn Bigelow thriller is out, it probably won't be seen in a cinema near you in Pakistan. No theater has promoted the film, no television channel is carrying its trailers, and, so far, no DVD shops are selling even its pirated versions. The reason? Well, one guess. ... "Zero Dark Thirty" is military speak for 12.30 a.m., the time the Abbotabad raid targeting bin Laden commenced in May 2011.
The Oscar-winning team of director/producer Kathryn Bigelow and writer/producer Mark Boal, along with cast members Jessica Chastain and Jason Clarke, talk about the film based on the decade-long search for Osama bin Laden, which already has critics buzzing and is stirring up controversy.
More world stories from NBC News:
- Body of India rape victim cremated in New Delhi
- Pakistan militants kill 40 in mass execution, attack on Shiites
- Statue of Hitler praying is displayed in former Warsaw ghetto to controversy
- Putin signs law banning American adoptions
- Video: Elephants play soccer at Nepal festival
- US sailors sue Japan's TEPCO for post-quake radiation exposure
Follow World News from NBCNews.com on Twitter and Facebook
Leave a Comment:
It looks like the Islamic Republic of Pakistan missed one. The right to exist as an sentient being with free will, independent thought, and different religious beliefs. Oh wait, I forgot.Being thrown into prison, tortured, and death, are all gifts given to all who meet these conditions. They don't want anyone to feel left out for very long. In a land of evil which is having a feast of death.
Pakistan has marched beyond Banistan.
It became Hateistan and now Killistan!
Islamic clerics have played a major role along with "intelligentia", military, "secular and moderate" Muslims and feudal and tribal lords in the fast backward march Banistan, Hateistan and Killistan!
Let's just ban Pakistan - from any US relations, including giving them US dollars - for anything!
I could live without the alcohol for awhile, no nipples? I am out.........
gm jack
That's a simple, easy, and cost effective solution ...... the government is incapable of understanding it.
British invented Pakistan, a pure Islamic nation in 47.
US, British, European nations have kept the Banistan alive on the map.
Pakistan to Banistan/Killistan has been march of "strategic ally"!
Still, many Pakis in Banistan/Killistan are ungrateful and biggest backstabbers. They hate the US and West most!
In Afghanistan half of NATO forces deaths are due to Pakis!
Has not time come to erase most of Islamic militant madistan's and nukes of Banistan?
GM Bill,
Yeah, I knew to keep it in the KISS method, but I guess that only confuses the Government!
Have a Happy New Year!
Once we are out of Afghanistan we also should start to rethink our relations with Pakistan. A blanket bane on immigration, limited embassy, perhaps downgraded to consulate. India shows values much more in line with our beliefs and deserves our support much more than Pakistan which seems to be heading to a complete collapse.
Johnny boy, without the interference of the West, Pakistan (which is technically part of Persia/Iran) it would still do the same stupid things as before and the influences of the West would have still come upon that land anyway. Besides that, if they will not play nice, then we will simply take over the Middle East and have World War III. We need a purging of the morons from all political sides and spectrums anyway.
thetruthteller: I think WWW III is going to be there.
Clash civilizations was predicted.
Actually, it is going to be clash religions, Islamic extremists vs the rest.
When it comes to Banistan, there are more "deletes" leading to doubts whether we are in "deleteistan"?
Notice how Mr. Kahn and NBC seek to equate Christians with Muslims by the photo of individuals seeking to ban The Da Vinci Code?
The only problem is Christians are such a small , discriminated against minority that they have no power whatsoever and couldn't get anything banned. They are reviled and despised by their Muslim countrymen.
Everything that is banned in Pakistan receives that treatment because Muslims want it to be so. Nothing is banned that the Muslims want allowed. NBC hates to admit this reality and seeks to misinform the public.
just BAN all U.S AID & private aid and money to pakistan ,BAN all trade with them too ,including importing textiles&exporting food and medical supplies
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful. - Unknown
It's not what's banned, it's the fact that 20% of the people tell 80% of the people how to live!!!!!!! This where Obama & the progressives want America at...
After reading the first few paragraphs of the article and I was aving flashbacks to the 1940's....
We've all heard those horror stories.... =/
The only value these Imams seem to have is to ban this or that. They have denuded the Islamic world of any form of culture other than religion. The Koran is about the only book they can produce any more that has any meaning, and the rest of the world flatly rejects its dogma and tenets.
One only needs to observe the stale, stagnation that is Pakistan to see what a cult like Islam can do to a people over time.
Perhaps they should ban Islam. The religion has done significantly more harm than good. I would argue that Islam has done more harm to the Pakistnis and their reputation than all the other sinful indulgences combined.
For centuries, the sick minds have been overpowering and killing the healthy minds, until all that is left is...Talibanland. It's almost a kind of 'brain-rabies' and equally as dangerous.
Zero Dark Thirty has NEVER been Military slang for 12:30 AM. It has always been used to mean sometime in the middle of the night....before the sun comes up. Before any normal, rational, person would want to be up. But never any specific time.
Please Pakistan..now outlaw exhaling. Or at least make it a law to USE mouthwash. Ever had a Pakistani breath on you? It could be a zero dark thirty and that will wake you right up.
Remember righties, your boyfriend, Dubya, was giving Pakistan (clownistan) over $12 billion a year. It mostly went to the ISI, who supports factions of the Taliban and on occasion would attack US troops. Obama has significantly reduced that aid and required that it goes to food and education. Then he significantly increased the drone strikes against members of al-queda hiding in Pakistan, desptite objections from the ISI. But keep hating righties, it just goes to show your lack of knowledge on exactly how monumental the failure of George W. Bush was.
Pakistan, what a useless country and society. They do not contribute anything good to the rest of the world. Stop sending money to those morons and don't allow them in the US. For those that are already here, send them back. They are a liability by association.
jack from Jax
That's easy for you to say but the U.S. has many reasons to stay close to Pakistan.
The cutoff of U.S. economic and military aid to Pakistan has already been done...see The Pressler Amendment. Don't forget that Banistan is in possession of Nuclear Weapons. Can you imagine those fanatics left to their own devices?
.........actually, it's "sh-t holistan" where the dead smell like the living and vise-versa. Being whipped into a fanatical frenzy by wild-eyed mullahs is the norm and where the 'religion' of '1984' is alive and well. Your best friend, wife, coworker, brother or the family goat may rat you out to the authorities and everything is illegal except, perhaps, carnal knowledge of your farm animals.......
What I'd like to know is: Just what the Hell happened on THAT side of the planet, anyway?
THIS JUST IN...... The Pakistani Government(Taliban) have outlawed breathing.....
We should have carpet bombed Afghanistan and Pakistan shortly after 9/11- -the world would have been better off.
Yep, go live in California, Illinois, or some parts of the New England states.....and maybe Minnesota. I live in North Dakota and people here are really dumb for voting a Dem liberal moron that acts like a Conservative into the Senate. I hate North Dakota. Im moving back to Texas since the people here screwed themselves. Lots of misinformed trailer trash libtards that live in Bismarck and Fargo that are from Minnesota looking for jobs I guess.
Clearly if flying kites has been banned due to strangulations there are three possibilities. One, those are some gigantic fricking kites or two, someone is not clear on the procedure or three, both,
The 'liberals' eh? Talk about clueless...
What struck me was how many of these 'bans' have been called for by various RWNJ and even mainstream conservative organisations over the years. Change the names of some of the groups to account for local differences and it becomes obvious they're using the same playbook. The major difference is here their success is inversely proportional to the quality of the local educational level and directly proportional to the number of local churches per capita.
And if I have to explain that, it proves my point.
At least all non-Muslim nations starting from the US, should ban the immigration of liabilities on socieities and nation from the Banistan, Hateistan and or Killistan.
Also kick out all trouble makers from basket case nations like Banistan...!
All it requires is change of requirements for immigration and stays.
At one time, commies were not permitted inside the US and many nations. They were also nicely kicked out if they sneaked in.
...and while Pakistan bans all that, plus allows and supports terrorist groups that attack and kill Americans; although at a slow pace, Cuba has been allowing more and more of those and even some freedoms, however we keep the embargo on Cuba and give billions to Pakistan, very strange policies.
romilio: Pakistan...? I've traveled extensively (not including Pakistan), and have found the vast majority of people in this world to be interesting, courteous and generous. I can't help but think that the same holds true in Pakistan. Islamic extremists and the ISI seem to have the power and will to create a hell on Earth for most of its citizens.
Our continued socio/economic abuse of Cuba baffles me. Haven't be a fan of Fidel Castro since he decided to become "Maximum Leader", rather than hold the elections he had promised. His influence in maintaining a 'communist' state is quickly disappearing, and his brother Raoul seems to be far more realistic and progressive.
I'm forbidden by our government to travel to Cuba, but am allowed to visit Vietnam and China, even Iran, and we trade freely and on a large scale with Vietnam and China. When was the last time government-sponsored Cuban troops attacked or killed American citizens? Something utterly irrational with our foreign policy with Cuba.
Dem in Texas-2291575, our government may have reduced reduced military aid, but it didn't stop it. As for the ISI and the majority of their misdeeds in Afghanistan, you can thank the good ol' USA for that one. After all, we're the ones that left Pakistan holding the bag at the end of the Soviet-Afghan War with the US funded leadership of the soon to be al Qaeda and the heavily armed Mujahideen sitting on their doorstep. We simply walked away without a care; as we have in so many other regions of the world.
And the drones... yes, Obama has been much more willing to use them than Bush was, but killing innocent victims like children just to get one "suspect" does not seem to equate that well to the American ideals we value, unless of course, we really have fallen that far. Targeting known terrorists would have been much more palatable.
Really? And just what do you know of the people of Afghanistan? Do you realize they payed an even higher price than the people of Pakistan for our meddling? The Mujahideen, the warlords, elements of the ISI, and even our boy Osama bin Ladin (funded by the CIA) were left behind for them to deal with. When the ISI funded Taliban took over and began slaughtering the populace by the tens of thousands, we never so much as batted an eye. Why? Well, because the Russians were gone... that's all we cared about. We didn't give a tinker's damn for those we left behind. We're good at that...
SDN is correct in his assertion that the vast majority of people in this part of the world are interesting, courteous and generous. Islamic extremists, terrorist organizations, and the corrupt political regimes that support them have indeed created a hell on Earth for most of the people in this region, and we're one of those regimes. But that's our foreign policy in a nutshell; vile, inept, fairly despicable, and dangerous to anyone we call friend. The rest of the undeveloped world has just been a bit slow in learning that. But they're getting the message.
As for ryguy198130:
Humorous, somewhat. I gather you'd rather be in Texas. But honestly, I have no idea what the hell you are rambling about.
It looks like the Islamic Republic of Pakistan missed one. The right to exist as an sentient being with free will, independent thought, and different religious beliefs. Oh wait, I forgot.Being thrown into prison, tortured, and death, are all gifts given to all who meet these conditions. They don't want anyone to feel left out for very long. In a land of evil which is having a feast of death,those who set the table are anxious to invite the world to join in being their guests.
One thing for sure, I honestly believe we should quit patronizing these countries with our hard earned tax money. I do not understand why the United States is just giving them money. If we are doing it for war rebuilding, then give them a certain amount and be done with it. There is no need to keep supporting countries that hate us, our values and our freedoms. This is my opinion.
Numb3rTech, it is sort of like holding the tiger by the tail, so it doesn't bite you.Only in this case, it's feeding the tiger a steak,hoping it won't notice how vulnerable your best friend nearby is.Which just happens to be some one it deeply hates. Along with your neighbors living next to its territory, who are raising protected wildlife it would do anything to get its teeth and claws on. Including killing them, in order to reach its goal.
So it is a delicate balancing act. If we keep our hand in the mix, our proverbial eye on what is happening, and the big kitty liking us, or at least hoping it won't be planning to attack us, with that nice steak in our hand.
Like playing a chess game we are both able to see some what the others moves and strategies. Yet in truth, we know all too well, they can be trusted as far as we can throw a battleship across the ocean.Because they need that money to help their own people. It is Orson Well's 1984 and double speak. Promising us support, trust, even as they double deal and betray us at the same time, stabbing us in the back, with a guarantee so solid, we could take it to the bank. Let's just hope we catch the terrorists before they strike us or our allies. Because that steak is getting mighty expensive and the butcher isn't even giving us the best cuts either
At least many Pakis imagine that they are too smart.
In Afghanistan, Pakis have backstabbed the US and NATO forces big time. Half of NATO forces deaths are due to ungrateful and backstabbing Pakis.
When the NATO forces were entering Kandahar in 2001, Pakis airlifted key al-Qaida, Taliban, ISI and others militants by back door from Kandahar.
This includes Mullah Omar, Osama and many including Paki Haqqani militant network leaders.
Hope people remember about Pakis sheltering Osama.
These Paki Islamic religious Nazis don't bother about their people and they are into reckless killing games in the name of jihad.
When there are drone attacks, most Pakis raise big hue and cry.
When they (Saudis and Pakis) bomb as in 9/11, they imagine that they are smart!
Biggest backstabbers and ungrateful criminals like Gen Mush go on lecture tour to the US, live in Britain and still go unpunished for their backstabbings!
His son is in the US.
Gen Mush is just one case!
Tell us: who is being fooled?
How about we train the tiger to become a pet that kills on command or kill the tiger and wear it as a coat instead, Winddancersong? Numb3rTech makes a good point with his post.
I believe we are being fooled. We should not play with this kitty. Our local Animal Control has a rule they go by, if you feed it, you own it, and any damage it does falls to the owner.
Well , I see a easy 18 billion dollars to cut from the deficit. Thats just what Pakistan received. Lets hit foreign aid hard in the so called cliff negotiations.
You just can't fix stupid and the harder they try the worse they do in Stupidstan. Islam is the bane on the civilized world. No foreign aid of any kind to this third world piss hole.
Curious paradox. The less people travel outside the US, the more they hate "foreigners" - whatever that is supposed to signify. The inverse, of course, is true in most cases.
Obviously neither Pakistan nor Islam generally have any regard for freedom of speech, freedom of religion, or even freedom of thought. The anti-humanistic horror of life in Pakistan is a picture of what the whole world would look like if Islam succeeded in its goal of complete world domination.
I agree, and include the Christian Tea Party while you're at it.
Elizabeth, are we sure that your last name is not Borden by chance? If it is, then you will be wearing that axe were you to come after me.
The next time you hear someone gripe about how bad the US is direct them to this article. Oh don't get me wrong we are far from perfect but Pakistan makes our issues pale in comparison.
The trouble is that the Christian Tea Party wants America to become exactly like Pakistan, except with a Christian theocracy instead of a Muslim theocracy.
...and the problem with people like you, Elizabeth - 1372999 and Indigo Halo - 1315697, is that you want to promote things that are equally as horrible despite your hue and cry of a contrary statement. We know that you promote things like Socialism, Communism, and Fascism and those things also do not have a stellar track record when it comes to the freedom of people. How about you be honest about things and say that money is the only thing that can buy freedom as well as knowing the right people and groups that are in the "proper" positions of power? Furthermore, actions speak louder than words and your actions and deeds clearly are at odds with the contradictory words of double speak that you and your ilk often speak about in your lives. We will not have another Cold War, Vietnam War, Korean War, or World War II with you, let alone the wars in Russia and in China over the same thing in the last century, among many other ones.
The problem with Elizabeth and Indigo Halo is that they ignore reality in their attempt to equate the beliefs and intentions of Islam with what they call the " Christian Tea Party ".
Islam denies the right to freedom of speech , press , religion and equal treatment of women. To enforce their denial of these fundamental rights they will kill , maim and destroy without compunction. The evidence of this is overwhelming and everyone knows it.
Christians do not condone killing and maiming people because of what they say or write or what religious views they adopt or because they are women. Everyone knows this. When the piss Jesus was exhibited as art or the dung Mary was put forward as the same , Christians did not riot and burn and kill. Everyone knows what the Muslims would have done if Muhammad had been degraded in this way.
Thank God I'm an atheist..
A lot of places it is certainly practiced like that however if you go to an arm-chair Muslim country like Kyrgyzstan which is about 3/4 Muslim you won't find so much of that. Let's get real, Christianity has been similar in the past. Witness the Spanish inquisition. And many in this country would have this be a Christian country to to point of forcing Bible teaching in school. Fortunately they don't have the power (at the moment) but things can change.
I'm sick and tired of people telling what I think or how I feel just because I'm a Christian. Take the chip off your shoulders, get some balance, and honestly survey the entire picture, please. Eventhough an allegedly intolerant, rights denying Christian who wants to subjugate the whole world, I always extend this kindness to others.
No fewer than TWELVE Christian ministers in America called for the extermination of gays. How is this different than Islam?
Yeah 12 is almost equal to a hundred million.
The Spanish Inquisition - are you serious?
Actually, it's sort of ironic. When defending the most backward, unprogressive culture in the world, you mention the Spanish Inquisition as an example.
You do realize some things have changed since the 1400's?
gary: "everyone knows"?
n52: Who, exactly, is "defending the most backward, unprogressive culture in the world.."? Where, indeed, is the 'irony'? How about Jonestown, or Waco, or Wounded Knee, or Nagasaki, or Dresden, etc, etc? Denying history has no influence on the realities. It does, however, have an influence on ones credibility.
Lets start a rumor that sex is an United States/Jewish rite and maybe they will die out in a few decades.
lol
Oh and for those getting down on Islam in general let's recall some of Christianity's greatest hits, The Salem Witch Trials, the Inquisition, the Scopes Monkey Trial, bans over the years on more books and forms of media than I can count, The excommunication of Galileo and that folks is the short list. Now some will point out that many of these things happened when the religion was about 1500 years old give or take a century or three. Funny that Islam is about 1400 years old. Is Islam oppressive in many parts of the world? Sure; but so was Christianity in the middles ages and some Christians would like those days to return.
And for those who think that religion is the root of all men's evil let us not forget that Stalin and Chairman Mao were atheists and were responsible for about 7-20 million deaths each (depending on whose counting). If there were not religion we'd simply find something else to be zealous about. Individuals may or may not be OK but often groups of people (religions , corporations , etc) are rotten plain and simple.
Even individuals and small businesses can be rotten, let alone coalitions of the same thing, UMM - 289921. When everything is destroyed in the cosmos, then things will return to normal and we will no longer be able to argue about stupid things that our narrow, finite minds can barely begin to comprehend. Oh, and Rich - 1031062, you need to turn your nickname into Dick instead because, to be honest, you are being one with your comment. However, you adding the word head might be more accurate in your case.
UMM-
While I agree with most of what you say I take issue with the idea that Stalin or Mao's atheism had anything to do with the kind of rulers that they were. Yes Stalin did "ban" most religions when he was in the process of trying to seize power since they were one of the groups that could have possibly organized any sort of effective opposition to him but once he had gained control he not only revived the Russian Orthodox Church but it positively flourished under his rule and was critical to his success in garnering popular support for his war efforts. And Mao was a nationalist and any opposition he had to religion was first an attempt to eliminate western influence on Chinese political affairs and culture and later to prevent any organized opposition to his rule from developing. The fact that they may or may not have been atheists had nothing whatsoever to do with their actions regarding religions.
UMM-
Thanks for your balance and clear thinking.
Hartvig -
The basic point is there are rotten apples in every barrel. Religion is not the sole motivator of rotten-ness in this world; there are plenty of others. And basically it comes down to how deeply flawed certain human beings are. Religion or non-religion is secondary.
UMM ----===== The flaw in your analysis is that we are dealing with the here and now, not hundreds of years ago. We have no control of what happened before we existed. In the 21st century Muslims are killing and maiming people on a daily basis around the world because of their religious views. Christians aren't doing this and haven't been doing it for much longer than we've been alive.
That being said, the Salem Witch Trials to which you allude occurred over about a 1 year period around 1692 and involved fewer that 25 people losing their lives. This number is dwarfed into insignificance by the number of murdered and maimed by Muslim inspired violence each year in the 21st century. As to the Scopes Monkey Trial , no one was maimed or killed in that judicial proceeding. As to books being banned, in America we have separation of church and state. The church can't legally ban books. However, under Islam , the state and the church are essentially one and the same and under Islamic governments books critical of Islam are banned, this is a very different thing.
As to your analysis of atheists visiting death and destruction on humanity, you are certainly right. Mao wanted to stamp out all religious influence including Confucianism which he blamed in part for China's position in the world when he took over. He certainly agreed with Carl Marx that religion was the opium of the people. But , as we all know , be one religious or non-religious , they can be evil and seek their own ends. To contend otherwise is simply not supported by the evidence.
Every time someone equates Islam to Christianity by pointing to atrocities committed many hundreds of year ago, I shake my head in total bewilderment.
If that's the best defense you have for all the violence, hate, and discrimination exported by extremist Islam, then you really need to dig your head out of the sand and open your eyes to the world.
But if you can't stop thinking about 1400s era Christianity, let me leave you with one fact: Christianity certainly was the cause of many deaths over the last 1.5 millenia, but for the most part, it was Christian leaders or court systems abusing power over their subjects (especially the Vatican).
Islam, on the other hand, is a religion where its extremist factions are brewed from the general population. When Mohammad cartoons are published in a newspaper, there are riots and killings by millions of common Islamists around the world. Many, many Muslims incite hatred and support terrorism from European countries; even though they live in liberal free countries.
Think about the fact that when democracy spread to the Christian world, and Christian followers were allowed freedom, persecution of others dropped dramatically. The birth of the United States is a prime example of that.
Islam seems to go in the opposite direction. When leaders are over-thrown in Lebanon or Egypt in the hopes of democracy, hardliners are elected to power. Turkey, which was one of the only true democracies in the Muslim world, is heading in the opposite direction since a Muslim party was elected. And Islam is as toxic in liberal European countries as anywhere else.
Islam is a different animal than Christianity was; and in my opinion, a more dangerous one. Christian persecution relied on the subjugation and control of its own members. The problem of extremist Islam is getting worse as their populations grow and spread through the Western World.
N529260 ====== Very , very insightful and accurate analysis.
What is most evident is that Pakistan is a massively failed state. A crippled country which is mired in its own self-perpetuated phobia about India. Its greatest collective error was to listen to its misguided founder, Muhammed Ali Jinnah, and divide itself from India, isolating itself and allowing reactionary mullahs from abroad and its own petty plutocrats to degrade Islam from the previously more tolerant streams of that faith, as influenced by its Sufi mystical and devotional strains. The sad irony is, that the Muslims of Pakistan have it far, far worse socially, economically and religiously than their sisters and brothers who chosed to remain in India. Ali Jinnah's hopes for a secular and democratic Pakistan have been irrevocably dashed by his successors.
Mohammad Ali Jinnah,
There have been many attempts to whitewash the crimes-rape, rapine, forced conversion, loot and pillage of temples and mass slaughter of Hindus by the invading Muslim marauders-by Marxist historians like Romila Thapar, RS Sharma and Irfan Habib but no historian worth the name in India dared paint Jinnah a paragon. Because it is an impossible, thankless task. Every nation has its unique ideas of history. Pakistan has a mission to salvage the Jinnah image because he happens to be the father of that country. After ignoring the Jinnah legacy for decades, in 1976 in the centenary year of his birth, Pakistan unleashed a huge image-building exercise for Jinnah.
Rick ======= When India was struggling for independence from Brittan after WW2, Jinnah , a Muslim , did not want the Muslims in India to live in a pluralistic country with many different religions and cultures. He demanded that India be divided and the northern portion be split off as a new country governed by Muslims and called Pakistan.
Others in India , including Gandhi, wanted a multi-cultural India where the rights of all religious groups were respected and honored. He opposed the division of the country into two, India and Pakistan.
But Jinnah refused to accept such a tolerant system and Muslims rioted , burned and killed across India until after an extended period Gandhi and his supporters agreed to the split of the country to end the Muslim violence. This is how Pakistan came into being as an Islamic country on the northern border of today's India.
The "banishment" of items & ideas in Pakistan truly reflects the intelligence of their political leaders, after all, doesn't prohibition work, like, all the time?
This is what you get when you don't have separation of Religion and State. Most of the banned items on the list are things that the Christian Tea Party would also like to outlaw here in America.
If you like what you see in Pakistan, Iran, and Saudia Arabia, keep voting Republican.
Indigo I have to agree with you in that when political leaders try to get support from religious or extremist groups they pass laws which force people to follow these religious beliefs as in Pakistan. No better way to divide a country can be had.
Nobama very good at dividing Amerika right now. Why wait till Tea Party get there? Hate very popular in states!!
Okay, so you are comparing the Tea Party, who want to ban gay rights (which, for the record, I oppose them on), and stop abortions, to Pakistan, who bans Pepsi because it is "too Jewish"? Honestly, the comparison is not there. And sure, so-called Christians have killed in the past, but we are here today, and radical Islam has caused many more deaths than Christianity ever will in the modern era.
The empowerment of terror in Pakistan has not happened overnight. This is the logical culmination of the politics and policies pursued by Pakistan for years now.
Terrorism in Pakistan has its roots in the culture of hate and the ethos of inequality on the ground of religious faith, leading to their being deeply ingrained in the Pakistani psyche and mindset.
One factor that has played a crucial role in creating this culture of hate is the educational policy of the government of Pakistan pursued since 1977. The officially prescribed textbooks, especially for school students, are full of references that promote hate against India in general, and Hindus in particular.
A cursory glance at Pakistani school textbooks - especially the compulsory subjects like Pakistan studies and social studies - gives an idea of how history has been distorted and a garbled version prescribed to build this mindset and attitude.
The objective of Pakistan's education policy has been defined thus in the preface to a Class 6 book: "Social studies have been given special importance in educational policy so that Pakistan's basic ideology assumes the shape of a way of life, its practical enforcement is assured, the concept of social uniformity adopts a practical form and the whole personality of the individual is developed." This statement leaves no doubt that "social uniformity", not national unity, is a part of Pakistan's basic ideology.
Sounds like the Texas conservative board that approves only textbooks that have a right-wing bias. Ever notice how the second half of the 20th century is treated in textbooks? Most schools don't cover that section anyway. The decisions of that board in Texas affect the rest of America, because publishers don't want to write a book for Texas and a different one for everybody else, so what Texas approves is often in your children's classrooms.
I wave the flag on the 4th of July like everybody else, but biased nationalism is always one of the most dangerous of ideologies, because people will not go to war unless they see everybody else as "other" and not quite as human as they are.
Censorship is an integral part of the fight to curtail individual freedom. What you are seeing in Pakistan is similar to the repression in Russia after the revolution. A few years ago, during the break up of the USSR I worked in all of the Warsaw Pact US embassies. When in my conversations with locals, I brought up things that happened prior to the revolution I was met with blank, confused looks.
My interpreter in Kazakhstan was a professor of economics at the university in AlmaAta. (He was paid more as my interpreter.) In conversation, I asked him what he was teaching in as much as the whole USSR system had just collapsed. He said the only texts available to him were supplied by the State. I posed the question, "If you could have any economics books in the world, which theories would you choose?" He showed me a piece of dog-eared notebook paper with 5 titles on it. I sent it to my wife.
My wife sent him the books, he acknowledged the receipt of the books. A year later, he sent another letter through my wife, the crux of which was :-he had revised the schools econ. curriculum and been invited to lecture at Wharton U Penn.
So many atrocities have been committed in the name of religion have led me to believe there is only nominal connection between religion and God.
Pakistan is how the United States could so easily become if we ever get a Tea Party house, senate, and president at the same time.
People also forget that there are 50 states. If your state was gerrymandered so that your statehouse is filled with the Tea Party, then your state can enact many of those restrictive laws. People think that Federal law will protect them from extremes, but remember: "Civil Rights" is rarely if ever applied to gender, and even then, is only applied to states that had a tendency to discriminate in the 1960s against ethnic groups.
The tragedy in Ireland, where a pregnant woman died because they waited to remove a rotten infection from her until the fetal "heartbeat" was no longer heard, already happens in America in some states, and other states are considering similar laws. This woman was murdered in her hospital bed because she was a woman. The fetus was not developed enough to survive outside the womb anyway, and the placenta was already rotten, so there was nothing that could have been done for the fetus, only the mother. Ohio is considering a "heartbeat" law. If you have a daughter, she could be killed in a hospital bed like that woman in Ireland.
The tragedy in India of the rape victim raped by a gang would allow the rapists to go free in some states in the U.S.: a woman who was disabled in Georgia was raped and couldn't fight back, so the perpetrator was let go, because the state defined rape as only if the woman fights back. In the case of that rape on the bus in India, if the woman was held down, she wouldn't have been able to fight back, so if that had taken place in Georgia, those men would be free, well, at least until she died.
All that hidden PAC money from billionaires that didn't go into Romney's campaign went into local elections, and those Tea Party people are in many state legislatures. Since the gerrymandered Congressional districts also have put those extremists in Congress, don't expect a Civil Rights for Woman act, or Equal Rights Amendment, or anything similar, any time soon. I only hope that people wake up and realize that America is in danger of losing its freedoms, state by state. Sure those Republicans are all for guns, but they want to limit any other freedom and safety, state by state.
butter:
Obamas first 2 yrs. the Dems./Progressive/Communists controlled the House,Senate & Presidency , and here we are standing at the cliff...........THANKS O'MAMMY
Elizabeth, You didnt have to wait too long for conformation that you were correct and of superior intellect , did you? But take heart, maybe lee has not and will not be allowed to propagate.
Lee has an agenda. He doesn't know where it came from, or what it means, but he will fight to the death to defend it. The same can be said for any number of groups on this planet.
Elizabeth: You don't know how refreshing, and encouraging it is, to hear a voice of reason emerge from the cacophony. Thanks for your posts. Some of us aren't at all sure of what it is we fear - you are an exception.
Unlike muslim countries,India is a secular country and everyone is free to follow one's chosen religion,and unlike islamic countries you are not treated as second hand and third rate citizens with no basic rights. Although kashmir is a part of india but Hindus were treated as second hand citizens as it is a muslim dominated state.....If majority population of india treat the muslims of india in a similar way as hindus of kashmir were treated,Then let me asure you that 140 million muslims will change their faith and religion in just 5-10 years.
Muslims of India failed in their cause of converting India into islamic state and that is their greatest regret...
Muslims all over the world starting from Pakistan, India, Bangladesh and other nations will have too many regrets.
Examine the death of most violent ideology, communism. It had shortest life span.
Any religion, which marches backwards instead of forward with times, is going to be washed out.
More violent a religion, quicker the death.
If Islam does not reform with times, we will see the washing away of Islam quicker than most anticipate!
Their own Allah has predicted the end of Islam!
There is an uncanny tenacity for some ideologies. India has millions of Muslims, and isn't going to suddenly change. While a stupid person bombed a Sikh temple in America, the Sikhs in India were an answer to the extremist variety of the Muslims: Sikhism is a different religion altogether than the Muslims, but they believe in one God, not a Hindu pantheon. Sikhs are very tolerant, and the numbers in India are growing.
Many religions thrive on persecution, and if not persecuted enough, tend to marry into the local population and lose their separate identities and eventually their unique ideologies. What is in the future for a religion is difficult to predict. I would have said that the cults in America (Christian or others) that abuse women and force children to marry would have been wiped out by now, just based on our free education and other freedoms, but such cults not only persist but have expanded in America. People want to think they are part of some special community, even if that community is abusive. For women, dating can be a heartbreaking process, and there are some women who just don't want to do that, but many want to be married. My grandmother explained to me, many years ago, that often "freedom" is only for men who take advantage of any willing woman and then leave, but if most women are willing, those who are not will never marry. I think that is too harsh an opinion about men, but if a particular woman has experienced this, she will more likely adhere to one of those intolerant religions where she can find a place, even if a low place, and that is the way some of these groups keep women in them. I do not understand people voting against their best interests, but I do understand joining groups where they feel they may meet people who are not just trying to take advantage of them.
Johnathan
That contained no facts.
Communism is not a religion, I could go on.
Basically you have no brain.
Elizabeth ===== Women are kept in Islam because they are born into it. There are no alternatives available to them in Islamic societies. There is no tolerance of any other religion or point of view. If you leave Islam, under Sharia Law , Muslims are directed to murder you. And , if you disrespect your family , i.e. , do something un-Islamic , you will be subject to an honor killing by your family.
Elizabeth - I guess everything's relative, but I caution you not to make generalizations that paint all Sikhs as tolerant and peace-loving. There are those that are still willing to violently fight for their own country (an independent Khālistān). Remember Air India Flight 182 with 329 dead.
Again: NOT generalizing. I have friends that are Sikhs - but be careful about painting with wide brushes saying things like "Muslims bad, Sikhs good". Every group has a fringe element that is truly scary and dangerous - and the majority of people, regardless of ethnicity or theology are basically decent.
Mifo ======= Sikhism is vastly more tolerant than Islam. Orders of magnitude more tolerant.
The amount of religiously inspired violence in the world today would be a shadow of its present magnitude if all the Muslims were instead Sikhs and all the Sikhs were instead Muslims.
If you're speaking in terms of religious tolerance, then I agree.
Personally, though - I think the families of those who lost their lives on that plane really care if it was for the sake of religion or politics that they were murdered. Sikhs also engage in honor killings and selective (gender-based) abortion.
We'll never know if your theory about "swapping" the populations would reduce world-wide violence. It's definitely possible... Myself, I think religion, politics, and nationalism are all tools that are used to control populations - just the names change, with the same (evil) results.
bf: Communism is an ideology and way of governing! It is given that it is no religion.
It is like "democracy"!
Violence is counter productive. Don't you get it by Paki example?
You may have a brain. But you don't use it properly to make the comments like yours. Pakis and many Muslims belong to your category!
Many may try in whatever manner they like to save Banistan on march to Killistan.
Islamic heroin addiction and Islamic extremist Frankenstein monsters have started killing internally.
Islamic religious madness has become uncontrollable in Banistan.
In a few decades, "strategic ally" will be in ruins and anyone coming close to them will also be ruined.
India will eventually have to deal with this problem as Pakistan turns it's violence towards them after we extricate ourselves from Afghanistan. We will help them, covertly ,roll up this problem we helped create. The wheel turns.
Yep I agree. India, with our help will be the only way we will be able to control their filthy expansion.
shouldnt that be spelled 'bamastan'?
Why are you hating on the great state of Alabama? Especially since your user ID is an anagram of "liberal" and Alabama is staunchly a red state.
Touche, DJ , very good. lil, you are the one legged man in an a$$ kicking contest--- withdraw.
Why do you think Russia turned away from this arm pit of the middle east? Pakistan and Afghanistan have been in collusion for years! I'm truly not sure what our fascination with this country would be except a playground for military weapons development. The ISI is as crooked as any government agency anywhere in the world. Trust is just not an option. Personally I want to completely shed ourselves of this pig sty. You could call it a gross exaggeration of "The Money Pit". Reason, compassion and tolerance is just not in their vocabulary. I truly feel sorry for the women of this "religion". If blasphemy is truly a word, Islam has to be in the definition somewhere. Disgusting, intolerant, filthy, smelly pieces of camel dung.
I worry once we leave this area how many immigrants will want to come here because they are worried about survival in Pakistan and Afghanistan? Isnt letting people immigrate just making it easier for extremists to win because all the normal folks leave?
Immigrate or emigrate?
Of all the bans that are sad, the "musical parties" ban is about the worst. Forget about western-inspired rock bands, the musical traditions of that region (India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran) have ancient roots. In order for the subtle ornaments and tuning of the musical styles to be passed down to the next generation, these need to be heard, preferably live, and taught to the next generation. Such a ban will wipe out any religious music too; maybe by the time it is too late, they will realize that this is a huge mistake.
The handling of all of these censorship laws should be a warning: for decency, truth about people, and sanity, it might be advisable for individuals to avoid porn and bad movies, but don't go so far as to create a legal ban, because something good might be thrown away too. There are plenty of people in the U.S.A. who blame video games for gun violence, or porn for rape, and that is valid, but a ban starts a precedent of limits on other people that is dangerous.
How is anyone supposed to negotiate solutions of any kind with these people? There is no common ground between them and the rest of the world, not even amongst themselves whether by country, region, town, tribe, or even immediate family. This list of insults to common sense reviewed in the article barely scrapes the surface. Add on how they treat their women (no room here for the disgusting details); how they are constantly primed to explode in hatred and retribution against the slightest whiff of difference (how can anyone be always angry?); and how they embrace the most repressive religious ideas out of the misguided jackass notion that they don't have to learn or teach math or science or geography or compassion or good will or decency of any sort, but merely indoctrinate their young ad infinitum in their archaic religious doctrines and practices as though there is nothing else in the world they will ever need to know, and you have a people with whom it will forever be impossible to establish and maintain meaningful dialogue on any issues, much less devise actual solutions to differences. Their collective intellect, to which the diplomat must appeal, is a giant sinkhole. The best diplomacy is wasted on them, not to mention national treasure and fine young lives lost. Expecting one of their leaders to actually understand a western perspective on anything, when they can't agree when eyeball to eyeball with their own neighbors on who is master of the local block association, is a ridiculous endeavor. What a colossal waste of time! They're impossible. They leave us no recourse but to continue to protect our interests (I vote we re-think what those interests are) as best we can, without reliance on their "cooperation." Of course we could cut off financial aid, but it would probably be wise to confiscate/destroy their nuclear arsenal first, which is another can of worms, maybe the biggest one of all. What in the world are we supposed to do with these people? But for the fact they occupy a certain amount of land in a woefully barren and putrid corner of the world, they exist, by their own preference, outside the community of nations that is trying desperately to live side-by-side with them. What is to be done? Any suggestions? Their belief system requires them to do everything in their power to eliminate the infidel (you and me, all our allies, and even our enemies unless those enemies happen to embrace the same narrow world view of these people, which is unlikely, in which case, the target of their frustrations can be expanded to include virtually EVERYBODY ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH who lives more than three blocks over from the bullhorn of their favorite religious leader - in which case, the target of any negotiation, however well-intentioned, is always moving, depending upon which person you happen to be speaking with at any given time, each one of them having his own personal and unique notion of what is right and wrong, which in no case will ever mesh with a reasonable, logical or orderly outcome. And of course, any agreements actually reached are only good till the sun sets on the day the paper is signed. Its nuts!
Sometimes I feel the same way when laws go back and forth from year to year, and we are caught in the middle, but it is nothing compared to these people. America also goes back and forth on treaties and many policies, but we at least have the freedom to argue about it. As to barren and putrid land, I also wish that America would publicize fracking chemicals and stop turning our land into uninhabitable deserts, but not all of it is that way yet.
The best suggestion, for everybody concerned, is to remove the nukes and the scientists. If they have stopped teaching science, then more scientists won't be around, although I've heard that there are still some from Pakistan, which, like India, used to be known for math and science. Any country that turns itself into another North Korea will become a problem for the rest of the world. Sanctions (or at least cutting off aid) might help. It will take real thought about possible solutions. If America spent its money on its own poor, we might also have fewer problems.
The whole world, due to overpopulation, food and water shortages, and a combined will to self-destruct, will have to think hard and fast to make better solutions. People have to love, forgive, build, and plan for the future of the whole world, or there won't be a world. Those who are religious and say that God promised that there wouldn't be another flood on account of humans should remember that humanity can do many destructive things on our own. Food and water shortages ALWAYS lead to war in world history; we must work fast to prevent this.
sometimes I think about that how uneducated people are...
you said that people are not allowed to educate!!
you talked about bad treating with women!!!
you talked about the unavailability of further talks cos' of no common ground!!!
and also you said that people are always(!) angry there!!!
I'm an american living in iran... which almost the same rules are applied here too!!! and the funny thing is that NONE of the things you mentioned above are right!!! lets see:
here in iran nearly everybody is "well" educated(they have problems on deploying!)... they have sentence from their prophet Muhammad which says: "go for science even it is in china"(in which china is represented as far away country)... in pakistan there are institutes working on sciences which are very successful and the important thing is they are founded by MUSLIMS!!!!! muslims believe in education; don't talk about what you don't know...
what you said about women is not something common and accepted in these people's culture( i've lived among the for long and I know what I'm talking about...) its just something that happens because of individual misbehavior...
I'm talking to these people day and night and I'm finding a "lot" of common ground!!!
and also I'm seeing happy people here... and according to my pakistani friends things are no different there!!!
---------
and about the bannings I should say that these are no odd things if you were a muslim... for example if you were a muslim you could not drink alcohol or even watch porn or even gamble!!! and it is common that in the country of muslims there should be none of these places!!!
and please stop whining about national treasures!!! that money is spent as "blackmail"!!
BAN Pakistanis! They'll only try to replicate their "Islamic paradise" here, anyway!
That would be like banning liberal filth.
How do you "ban" an independent country half-way around the world? What are you even talking about?
Mofo--oops! Mifo, it obviously means banning them immigrating here. ryguy got it right away.
LOL. Got it. Carry on...
The First Two Things Pakistan should Ban are satan's handbook, the koran and then islam. Then they would have a ray of Hope.
I will give them a ray from my Death Star I have built behind the moon.
So it was an ok, free country until the politicians tried to appease the religious right by banning everything fun - and now it's a total dump. I hope people here in the States are taking notes.
Vier ------ Pakistan was never OK. Go back and read it's history. It has always been an Islamic country and always failed to tolerate anything except Islam.
And stupid America naturally sided with the Pakistani-supported al-Quaeda and Taliban Islamists in Afghanistan against the secular government simply because the secularist government in Afghanistan fighting for its existence was supported by the Soviets. Way to go, Jimmy Carter --- NOT!
It was Ronald Reagan. Video from September 17, 2001 showed Dick Cheney talking to Osama Bin Laden in Afghanistan during that Afghan-Soviet conflict. Dick Cheney was always Republican.
Jimmy Carter never met a repressive Muslim leader he didn't love. With his help, Iran brought in the Ayatollah Khomeni.