The story says he used two guns. One a carbine, the other "a gun capable of firing lead shot". Some guns can be rifles, and still fire shot. Especially many European hunting rifles. Many are converted poacher rifles and so on.

I read elsewhere that the other gun was a double barrel...That's a shotgun period.

Not necessarily. Many european guns are duel purpose. One barrel a rifle, the other fires shot, for bird hunting. Its generally known as a poachers rifle.

If you're are such an expert on guns, you should know about those..

Look... what does it take to get through...If a gun with double barrels is shooting lead shot (lead shot means pellets as opposed to bullets) it's a f#$%ing shotgun.

We used to have guns like that here, I don't know if we still do, but they were called Over-Unders.

No you look, there are rifles designed to do both. One specifically shoots a rifle cartridge, the other shoots shot. Neither are the same. They are known as poachers rifles. Try looking it up.

Only difference is the bore of the barrels. If smooth bore its a shotgun, if rifled bore its a rifle. Simple as that.

Why is this so hard to understand?? I'll try one more time..Regardless what of what you're talking about this story is reporting that this gun shoots lead shot...nothing about shooting bullets.This means it's a shotgun..plain and simple.

No it means its both a shotgun and a rifle. Its a two barrelled rifle. One shoots a rifle cartridge, the other is a shotgun. They call it a rifle, because it is a rifle.

The only person who cant seem to understand its a duel purpose weapon is you.

"Freedom" -

From the article: "an old Swiss army carbine and a rifle capable of firing lead shot."

Nowhere does it mention it being double-barreled.

BTW - In fairness and to limit deception, you should add "WhoAgreesWithMyPosition" to your moniker.

Red & Brass - My 9mm is capable of firing rounds loaded with lead shot, a handy thing since there are poisonous snakes where I live. Does that make it a shotgun? Or am I just another incompetent liberal?

Your 9mm is not a rifle. Also the "lead shot" you can fire out your handgun is called "hollow points".

red,

How do you know what he has. Have you been looking in his closet again??

tex, He just said above what he has. Can you read?

Actually that may not be a bad description. Though uncommon in the US and getting rarer the world over there are guns made that are basically side by side large bore rifles (I mean huge.) that will accept both slugged projectiles and shotgun shells. They are neat guns and often works of art really. I wouldn't really want to shoot one though. I have seen them fired and the results are rather impressive at both ends of the gun.....

my .22 rifle can shoot lead shot...its called bird shot...and my shotgun can shoot solid slugs, so is the former a shotgun and the latter a rifle???

yes

A gun that shoots shotgun shells is a shotgun...and all shotguns will also shoot slugs.

A shotgun has a smooth bore for shooting "slugs", Lead shot, shotgun shells containing many small BB's; A rifle has a "rifled" bore for shooting the long distance rifle bullets with accuracy. It is pointless to have a rifled bore to shoot a shotgun slug. Gneisenau, you may be right. I don't know much about european guns. But in all actuality and simplicity a shotgun is a shoulder weapon with smooth bore long barrel, and a rifle is a shoulder weapon with rifled bore and a long barrel.

Many european hunting rifles shoot both. Some have two barrels, some fire both out of one. They are simply guns that cover all hunting needs. They are more often two barrel guns, one a rifle, the other a small gauge shot gun. Over/under config.

They are also called poachers rifles. Because hunting is illegal in many places.

Bullits are refered to as lead shot in some countries. Military wise the M-16 Fires a 7.76 mm Ball Type Ammo, that is the ways it is listed in the supply system.

6dogs i think you're a bit mistaken. The M-16 fires 5.56x45 mm ammunition. Also "Ball Type Ammo" is in reference to the powder in the casing not the projectile. When the M-16 was first invented they initially used stick ammunition, powder that looked like small sticks, but that burned improperly and resulted in misfires. As a result they moved to ball powder, powder that is in the shape of little balls, which burned much cleaner. That is if i can recall the history correctly.

red,

Your 9mm is not a rifle.

Can YOU read, where did he say he had a rifle???

Also the "lead shot" you can fire out your handgun is called "hollow points".

Are you an idiot or just acting like one? There are .45 caliber pistols (called Judges) that also shoot .410 shotgun shells. They have lead shot and are not hollow points. Where do you get your information, comic books?

A shotgun has a smooth bore for shooting "slugs", Lead shot, shotgun shells containing many small BB's; A rifle has a "rifled" bore for shooting the long distance rifle bullets with accuracy. It is pointless to have a rifled bore to shoot a shotgun slug. Gneisenau, you may be right. I don't know much about european guns. But in all actuality and simplicity a shotgun is a shoulder weapon with smooth bore long barrel, and a rifle is a shoulder weapon with rifled bore and a long barrel.

Agreed. I was merely pointing out that there are guns made that are meant to shoot both shot shells and solid projectiles. His gun may have been one of these. Personally I find them fascinating works of art but lousy weapons since they are a lot of compromise. The rifling tend to screw up the shot pattern and the bore size tends to make them something only a masochist would want to shoot. At least the ones I have seen. I guess someone probably made smaller bore guns of this style but I haven't seen one. I have seen side by side guns that had one barrel rifled for solid projectiles and one smooth for shot shells though.

Tex, the .45 judge is not the same as a 9mm. And handguns are neither rifles or shotguns. Why are you going around in circles? See post above, I said a shotgun has a smooth bored barrel, and a rifle has a rifled barrel. THats it.

Why keep harping on Crap that is 13 or so years old. We have moved on since than. Quit living in the past and get up to date. The whole world was concerned about going over the Cliff and you want to talk about Clinton.

You idiot, everyone in Switzerland is on welfare. That is why they are ahead of us in all standard of living assessments.

tex2c, that really makes no since. Everyone is on welfare? Where do the get the money to just hand out??

redshad12

Like it will be here. Tax everyone 100% & hand it out as King Hussein sees fit. We ALL must pay our fair share. We ALL bundle.

I bet you smile all the way to the bank.

red,

From the crooks like Romney who stash their money in Swiss bank accounts to cheat their own country out of the taxes they owe... LMAO....

In Switzerland, everyone pays taxes and everyone gets the benefits of socialism. Get it.

BTW, the biggest beneficiaries of welfare in this country have been the rich...They don't want you to know that but take a look at corporate welfare and rich folks tax breaks which are going down because Obama stood up to them. The GOP is going down with them...

Switzerland is ahead of us by miles because they share the wealth and don't just pile it up in the pockets of the rich. They are all rich and they are all socialists...

Wow!

"They are all rich and they are all socialists..."

Hilarious! Maybe the funniest post I've ever read here!

tex2c, You just lost all credibility buddy, even the little you still had.

Hey Tex2c...if everyone is on welfare as you stated in #29.1 then who pays the Taxes your speaking of?
Also you say Romney is a crook,how bout Google 80% of 2011profits were routed through Brumuda to avoid paying 2billion of WHAT THEY OWE TO AMERICA ! Damn liberal company's

Larry,

You are doing a pretty good job of convincing the rational people in America to take away your assault weapons. We would welcome you into the 21st Century if you got an education first. LMAO

TEx, you don't seem to have an education. In fact, i'm willing to bet that you believe the AR-15 is an "assault weapon".

@tex2c

It didn't take very long for you to fall back on the old liberal standard of calling everyone who doesn't agree with you uneducated. What makes you think you're so damned educated? Maybe we would welcome you to the human race if you weren't so arrogant.

who the heck would have the courage to disarm America?

ban &destroy the nut cases ,psychos and maniacs ,problem solved ,leave the poor innocent guns alone ,becides it would be cool to throw a few of those crazies in the SSI shredder alive !,the other ones would think twice before doing something stupid

And you are now trying to foist the lie coming out of Faux, Limburger, and the NRA that the AR-15 is NOT an assault weapon? Looks like an assault weapon, feels like an assault weapon, fires like and assault weapon, can be configured with tactical devices of all types, can be loaded with high capacity magazines, can be converted into fully automatic status by someone with an elementary level education - but your saying that it is NOT an assault weapon? Do you consider your brain an assault weapon?

Education? LMAO...

Your wrong Tex. It's a semi-auto weapon. It does not fire like an assault weapon, the heat would be too great. You saying that it can be converted into an assault weapon just proves yourself wrong. For if that is true (which it is) then it had to start out as NOT an assault weapon. So we agree that the AR-15 for sale to the public is NOT an assault weapon. Good.

I did not receive a liberal education if that is what you mean. Funny, when the government wanted me to have a gun they had no problem with me carrying a true assault weapon, full auto M-16 and a heavy belt feed M-60 Machine gun. Drafted, no choice, LBJ's hired gun. However I do remember the oath I took to protect the constitution of the United States, the 2nd amendment being but one of them. I reserve unto myself the right to bear arms and millions more like me won't be gving up that right so easy. I feel for the children in that school that were killed and their family. I also feel for the millions of babies killed in the womb every year you liberals seems to flush like so much trash, you have a cronological problem as to when it is OK to kill a kid and when it is not...We do differ on idealologies and moral codes but if being a left wing liberal is what it takes to be part of the 21st Century, I'll take a pass. You got one sick azz society out there now and my main objective is to protect myself from it not join it.

tex2c, A spoon is to making people fat, as a gun is to murdering people. Hear me out: A spoon is a tool used for eating (good). If you misuse that tool and continuously stuff your face with food, you get fat (bad). A gun is a tool used for defense by lethal force or killing your meat for food (good). A gun used used for murder is misuse of that gun/tool (bad). See both tools have positive uses but when used wrongly negative affects. Just remember this: "killing does not equal murder".

And there went every argument of the left that claims that hunting rifles are never used to kill, that ammunition bans would curb violence and all the other liberal talking points.

Impeach every liberal lawmaker.

On what charge? How about we arrest you for filing false charges against the NRA leadership?

@ redshad12, i want a high capacity assault SPORK,as those look mad cool and can take on any food !!

Mark, a high capacity "assault" weapon is a tool used for lethal defense against an equal threat (good). It is not meant for murder (bad). Apparently you have no argument.

@redshad12 i love my "assault weapons" as do my food ,i want a manly utensel like a spork its has all the conviences of all 3 utensels as does a assault weapon,it can be used for both good and sometimes the bad , but i want my right to choose my firearm type as i choose my utensels! i can eat a salad with it or eat a fatty dessert !,same goes for my guns,its my choice ,not some dumb braindead politician or libturds

"killing does not equal murder". Last time I checked the results were the same...

a high capacity "assault" weapon is a tool used for lethal defense against an equal threat. Not a very good one unless you think you are going to defend yourself in urban warfare scenarios. Piss poor for home defense...PS, in urban warfare situations, you have no chance in hell against hardened criminals or the US Army. LMAO...

A spoon is designed to feed you, an assault weapon is designed to fool you into thinking you are well protected. Looks cool, until you have to use it in a home defense situation.

Winners get educated about the proper guns for home defense, losers get assault weapons.

Tex, since when were we talking about home defense?? This is about the 2nd amendment which has nothing to do with home defense, but against a tyrannous government whether that be internal or external.

Also, as stated before, the only people who can legally obtain assault weapons is our military.

And as stated before, that is a lie. You can buy an assault weapon at any gun store in the country or you can buy one without even having a background check at any of the 5000 gun shows held every year around the country. If you are still trying to perpetuate the lie that assault weapons are all automatic military weapons, give it up, we know the truth.

against a tyrannous government whether that be internal or external.

If you think you stand an ice cubes chance in hell up against the US Military, you need to sit down, read up on what kinds of capability they have that you don't, and prepare to kiss your ass goodbye. You make yourself look more foolish with each post... LMAO, again...

People do not buy assault weapons with a fantasy to overthrow the government of the United States (if they do, they are traitors, by definition), they buy assault weapons with an immature and sometimes unrecognized fantasy to kill people on the streets of America so they can become heros.

Try to keep in mind that the government of the United States is still a result of elections, not a result of the efforts of violent idiots with assault weapons.

And as stated before, that is a lie. You can buy an assault weapon at any gun store in the country or you can buy one without even having a background check at any of the 5000 gun shows held every year around the country.

Speaking of lies.....

I find it interesting that the left is always clamoring about the Bill of Rights when it is under this President that the only artist in our history has been arrested for his art. So much for the First Amendment under the liberal leadership.

Nakoula Basseley Nakoula, scapegoat of the State Dept.

The 2nd amend. specifically prohibits the government the power to take that right away.

Tell that to Nakoula Basseley Nakoula.

The 2nd amend. specifically prohibits the government the power to take that right away.

What right, to own grenade launchers? LMAO, you have no idea what the Constitution says or means. If the government cannot prohibit you from gun ownership and carry, why can you not carry a gun into a voting booth or into a government building? Ignorance is measured not in what you think you know, but in what you do not.

JS are you talking about the rabid anti-Muslim, Nakoula Basseley Nakoula, who was sentenced to a year in jail for probation violations? You probably think Goebbels got a raw deal for his anti-Semitic propaganda movies in the 30's.

This happened in Sweeden and has nothing to do with us. What happens in other countries has nothing to do with us in matters like this. If a person has mental issues I don't think the Law means anything to them. They do, however, don't seam to realize the difference between right and wrong, or good or bad.

Do you know the difference between Switzerland (where this happened) and Sweden (another country entirely)?

Terelyn,

You are obviously a lying, liberal, communist, faggot terrorist. Of course Switzerland is just another name for Sweden. It has not been recognized as a state yet, right? Besides, they both start with S and that stands for SOCIALISM and that rhymes with vocalism which is our basic right to say anything we want even if it is totally ridiculous and false. If you don't like what we say, we have assault weapons to get you to change your little minds.

People like you make ignorance and racism look like bad words...

Our gun Laws until they are changed are somewhat tight and BS still happens. They are tighter that Sweedens so Take you Rants somewhere elas.

A pathetically weak attempt by the NRA to confuse the bewildered gun owners over the last couple of decades is to demand a definition of 'assault weapon.'

Anyone with a brain knows that an assault weapon is a weapon whose only reason to be is to kill people or to impress the rest of the gang.

Basically, assault weapons are useless as a home defense weapon. A shotgun or a handgun is much more effective for that purpose, but of course, they don't look quite as 'cool' and cannot be used to kill children by the dozens.

Only Roy Rogers never grew up types and potential mass murderers would consider buying an assault weapon.

The weapon, not described very well, was refered to as a Carbine and it sounds to me like it was bolt operated. Probably a relic of WWII days.

Whatever it was, this kinda explodes the NRA claim that Switzerland is a land of perfect balance with everyone owning guns and nobody getting shot. What will they come up with next to sell more guns?

The threat to America, sir, is when the citizens of this once great country are disarmed.

plan271A

Then come get them. You need an address? I have 30 to 40 guns locked up in a $1,000.00 ,900lb safe in my bedroom. As you Leftards like to say, stay out of my bedroom.

no problem Adolph, here's all my guns

Kevin D. Hoke

Kinda creepy there Kev. Some folks use their bedrooms for sex with their partners and some use them for sex with their firearms. YOU?

How many have you been able to insert at one time? Just askin'.

you won't be a "citizen" if unarmed by the gov't you are now concidered a "subject" !!!

Plan -27 -

Cogent definition of responsible gunowner: One of the 80+ Million gunowners in the US who keep their firearms secured and never have a legal or safety issue; never make the liberal media fear stories; scare the bejeezus out of the liberal hoplophobes.

How's that?

mpa-4893349, you mean never have a problem until their kid shoots them or takes them to a school or they are allowed to be stolen and used in a crime, or......

redshad12

The threat to America, sir, is when the citizens of this once great country are disarmed.

That's the thing, the citizens have been disarmed, of intelligence. Guns don't protect you, common sense and intelligent action do. You will be safer in your home when you act responsibly, voting, looking out for neighbors, and the like, long before a gun will serve in that capacity.

And for you unclever people who toss about phrases such as "Leftards", "Libby" and others, your wackjob politics and default republican (or democrat) worship will make you less safe than the absence of a firearm in your home. Any allegiance to either of the so-called two parties is part of the problem. They result in the same old thing and until you have the wisdom and courage to vote independently with common sense and forethought it is YOU that is keeping this nation from resolving its myriad of problems. It is idiotic to continue doing the same thing yet expect a different result. If you voted D or R then you are the problem.

My apologies for the slight diversion in topic, albeit at the core of so many issues. The stupidity of Americans has me riled today.

Plan -

reread my definition. Notice the word "never." Reading is fundamental.

mpa-4893349

You did not address the irresponsible NRA idiots who are buying assault weapons as fast as they can borrow the money.

Hoplophobia is a pejorative neologism originally coined to describe an irrational aversion to weapons, as opposed to justified apprehension about those who may wield them. It is a propaganda term coined by the NRA to attempt to divert the real issue which is that rational people have a reasonable interest in keeping assault weapons off the streets of America.

Are you being paid by the NRA or are you just ignorant?

Tex, you just keep lying. An assault rifle is any automatic or semiautomatic rifle that holds large magazines and is DESIGNED FOR MILITARY USE. The guns that you and I are allowed to purchase legally are not designed for military use. There are differences in heat capacity, durability, firing frequency, and function.

Of course they don't. They also don't care. They have to blame someone and can't bring themselves to hold people accountable for their own actions therefore it must be the NRA. They love big government so it can't be them, they love their media so it can't be that. They're afraid of their own shadows so it must be something very evil that exists to deprive them of their courage. They really have no idea what the NRA is so it must be them.

We, in the common sense crowd, do know that the NRA was taken over by extremists in the early 70's and has used bribery and extortion to get their marketing strategy legalized. You apparently do not know who you are.

What percentage of NRA membership supports the sale of assault weapons available without background checks? The current leadership of the NRA is not representative of its members.

tex2's concern for the NRA membership which, in his opinion, does not have his the mental capacity and cannot, therefore, think for themselves is touching, if somewhat disingenuous (and pure bull!).

If he has evidence of bribery and extortion, he should contact the proper authorities immediately.

What do you think the millions of dollars in lobbyist money and the threats to political candidates is all about? Clearly you do not make it to the average IQ of the NRA, because they do...LMAO...

Did you know that an AR-15 is basically a .22 semi-auto hunting rifle that looks cooler? Also, I believe you meant to say magazine, not "clip". You're comments cannot be taken seriously until you become educated on the topic you're TRYING to argue.

We, in the common sense crowd, do not really want to ban all guns, just the ones that should be limited to law enforcement and military use. We see assault weapons and high capacity magazines in the same category as fully automatic weapons, grenades, and rocket launchers. Not appropriate for the novice, paranoid, immature, domestic terrorist.

Also, we do want to put the criminal element at the profit oriented leadership of the NRA in jail for supporting terrorism within our borders. The criminal marketing strategy using bribery and threats of the NRA since the early 70's has been responsible for making it very easy for a home grown or even a foreign terrorist to get a weapon of mass killing at any of the 5000 gun shows per year with NO background check of any kind.

Osama bin Laden was not as responsible for as many American deaths as the NRA. Look how much money it took to get him. How much more bang for the buck would we get just raiding NRA headquarters and dragging the criminals off in chains?

Or, one could say that liberal policies concerning mental health "privacy" history have caused those deaths.

The "common sense crowd?" I guess that you think you and your cronies have more sense than the founders who assured the populace a means to defend themselves against despots?

more sense than the founders

No, but able to understand that they lived in a world much different from the one where paranoid idiots can get an assault weapon and convert it to fully automatic with a 5th grade education. Hate to point it out to you, but this is the 21st Century and you are living with an 18th Century mind.

If you want to have guns for food procurement or even home protection, go for it. If you want an assault weapon that you think will overthrow the US government or protect you from Canadians rushing over the border, get a life.

Why are you ..making sense..?

Why is an economist doing a study on gun violence? Why would I believe someone not an expert on the subject? Why do you believe everything you see that's anti-gun?

Gun sales and the concomitant impact on society IS of interest to an economist. Get it?

Who would you consider an expert on gun violence, the NRA? Well, you got me there, the NRA is the biggest proponent of gun violence so, I guess, they are experts. Unfortunately, they also have a slight bias in their position, you know, to sell more guns to idiots who cannot figure out what they are doing.

Yea tex2c Chicago has some of the most strict gun regulations in America, and they have little to no gun voilence! How did we not see!

Chicago also has some of the most desperate living conditions in America. Any connection to the violence? All the gang bangers have to do is make a little trip south and get all the weapons of mass killings from the fat boys that their cars can hold.

You certainly know how to connect the dots. LMAO...

tex, most the gang bangers you speak of, if not all, obtain guns ilegally. And what you want is to make it ilegal for them to own guns. Sound logic sir.

And every one of those illegally obtained guns originated as legally purchased guns. Get it?

Where do you think they came from? Outer space?

The rational mind would not expect to make all the guns out there just disappear (thanks NRA for the excessive access), but it would demand that no more be sold to be put on the doorsteps of the desperate.