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Subscribe to RSSITN's Neil Connery reports from Belfast, where a fifth consecutive night of violence followed a loyalist rally outside City Hall.
A spat over the flag fluttering over a local government building might sound trivial. But in Northern Ireland, the decision to stop permanently flying the British flag outside Belfast City Hall has sparked some of the worst violence since the 1998 Good Friday peace deal.
Dozens of officers have been injured in attacks on police lines by furious protesters who, night after night, have thrown stones, bottles, fireworks, and, sometimes, Molotov cocktails -- violence that police say is orchestrated by the Ulster Volunteer Force, a pro-British paramilitary group.
Gunshots were heard Saturday, although police said later it appeared that blank rounds had been used. Monday night saw a mix of peaceful protest and riots during which police used water canon and fired plastic bullets, ITV News reported.
Peter Muhly / AFP - Getty Images
Loyalist protesters confront police as they gather at Belfast City Hall during a city council meeting Monday evening.
According to one pro-British politician, the demonstrators are staging a “revolution with a small r” against attempts by Irish nationalist parties to “remove their Britishness.”
Irish nationalists say they wanted to stop flying the flag from outside city hall because it is also used by pro-British paramilitaries and others to mark out their territory in the divided city and “intimidate” Catholics.
The Good Friday Agreement was credited with largely ending three decades of sectarian violence known as "The Troubles," during which British troops were sent in to patrol the streets and at least 3,600 people were killed.
It created an elected Northern Ireland assembly and devolved government in which power is shared between all sides, with traditional arch-enemies remarkably sitting side by side. The assembly meets in an imposing historic building, Stormont, over which the British flag flies for just 15 pre-agreed days each year. The recent violence was sparked by a vote that agreed a similar policy at local government level in Belfast last month.
Naomi Long, deputy leader of the Alliance Party, warned Northern Ireland was now facing "an incredibly volatile and extremely serious situation."
"I don't think anyone should underestimate the threat it poses to long-term peace and security in Northern Ireland," she told NBC News.
"If people continue with violence, if it continues to escalate, if paramilitary involvement in that violence continues to grow, there's a real risk that we lose the progress we've made," Long said.
In the month since Belfast City Council in Northern Ireland voted to limit the numbers of days the Union flag flies over its City Hall, 62 police officers have been injured, tens of thousands of dollars' worth of damage caused and senior loyalist paramilitaries have been involved in orchestrating the violence. Channel Four Alex Thomson Channel Four Europe reports.
Long described the violence as a "reality check." While politics had delivered the peace process, she said, true reconciliation between the divided communities had been "left to one side because it's painful and difficult."
"What we have had is a papering over of the cracks," she said. "We have deep divisions, deep hatred and sectarianism and it won't go away by itself."
Long, a member of the U.K. parliament, said she and other politicians had received death threats after the Alliance Party members on Belfast City Council voted for an attempted compromise deal over the flag on Dec. 3.
It allowed the British flag to be flown on a number of designated days -- about 17 or 18 depending on the year -- rather than all the time or not at all.
Riots continue to erupt in Belfast, Northern Ireland, after lawmakers announced restrictions over flying the Union Jack. ITV's Mark Mallett reports.
Cops hurt as British unionist protesters try to storm Belfast City Hall in flag spat
An angry mob tried to storm the council chamber on the night of the vote and protests have continued sporadically since, with Monday seeing the fifth straight night of violence as the council met for the first time since last month’s controversial vote.
Police said Monday afternoon in an emailed statement that 96 people had been arrested since the latest unrest broke out and 61 police officers had been injured.
'Attempt to kill': Police in Belfast attacked as flag riots rage on
Billy Hutchinson, leader of the Progressive Unionist Party, which he said provides political advice to the UVF, told NBC News that the flag decision had “driven people mad.”
“I think what this is about is ordinary citizens who feel people are trying to remove their Britishness,” he said.
“You need to remember that this is the United Kingdom and the flag of the country is the union flag,” he added. “It would be a bit like if people wanted to take down the Stars and Stripes from some local government in the U.S.”
Paul Mcerlane / EPA
Local shoppers waiting for a bus watch as riot police follow pro-British protesters away from Belfast's City Hall during a protest Saturday.
State collusion in 1989 murder of Belfast lawyer 'shocking,' British PM says
Hutchinson said this was one of a number of actions by Sinn Fein that were “outside the spirit of the Good Friday Agreement.”
“I think the flag issue is a very big issue, I think it was the straw that broke the camel’s back … the catalyst that brought people onto the streets,” he said.
“I think it is serious, I think people need to recognize this is a revolution with a small ‘r.’ We cannot sustain this sort of inequality coming from Sinn Fein, who are disguising it as equality. They cannot force this through,” he said.
“I think if you listen to what the protesters are doing and saying, I think it is a threat [to the peace process]. It’s not a threat of armed violence… it’s a threat of community and political action,” he added.
Hutchinson stressed he believed in peaceful protest, and would seek to persude any UVF members taking part in violence to stop.
Clinton condemns violence, revisits family legacy in trip to Belfast
Jim McVeigh, leader of Sinn Fein’s councilors on Belfast City Council, said they had thought it would be better to have no national flags at city hall, but had agreed to the compromise deal, which was passed with votes from the nationalist Social Democratic and Labour Party, and the non-aligned Alliance Party.
“The issue of the flag and allegiance and identity is a very important one here in Belfast. [In the city] you will see flags are used to mark out territory … to intimidate,” he told NBC News, highlighting murals painted on walls and national colors on curbs.
Cathal Mcnaughton / Reuters
A burnt out car blocks Dee Street in east Belfast Sunday near a mural that supports the Ulster Volunteer Force paramilitary group.
McVeigh, who said he has had death threats since the vote, said he had expected some protests after the decision on Dec. 3, but added no one anticipated it would be “as ferocious as it has been.”
“The bottom line is we made the right decision. We’re not going to change that decision. The flag is not going to go back up [permanently]. These protests are futile,” he said.
A spokesman for the police trade union in Northern Ireland, who asked not to be named, told NBC News that the police were “severely stretched” in dealing with the riots and also the threat from dissident Irish nationalist groups.
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Going to have to avoid that country for a potential vacation spot. I like America, here we just threaten people with law suits and have peaceful and useless protests where we occupy parks.
I could see Democrats in the US not wanting to have a flag in any government building. They wouldn't want to offend anyone.
As I see it, not much worse than some of OUR wing-nuts down south arguing over flying the Stars and Bars (Confederate Flag). Just people looking for the smallest details to be miserable about over the pretense of pride/predjudice, rather than sitting down with open minds on both sides and having an honest discussion. And I am not trying to get the Heritage / Hate debate going again.
"wing-nuts down south" isn't really appropriate....I see that your mixing your rhetoric. If anything, confederates were left-leaning Democrats but that really isn't an appropriate context either.
Another.... you do realize democrats are PRO united nations right, unlike the isolationist GOP?
J R
'Left-leaning' Democrats? You must not live 'down south' or you live in an alternate world than I do and I DO live 'down south'.
Another
You must live in the same alternate reality as JR. I suspect you don't know any Democrats but if you open your eyes you might see that it's the party (made up of people) who are much more inclusive and and tolerant. Yes, the Confedrerate flag offends some. It's a symbol of repression. Not much different from someone wanting to display the Nazi flag at a Jewish building. There are, in fact, where, although you might have the right to do something by law, civil society dictates that you shouldn't do it. It's called 'getting along' and in the scheme of the whole world such a small matter why not just let it go.
Ridiculous comments
dome...
Pakistan is a member of the U.N so you Dems. agree with suppressingwomen rights? Killing young girls? The only thing Dems. are is two-faced.
Sooooooooo, are we going to bomb, invade and occupy Ireland now?????
QUICK, neocon warmongers - here's your cue!!!
DSB.."The Democrats" he was talking about, I believe, were President Davis, and his Cabinet of democrats that lead the confederacy, and fought to keep the south as slave states(country).
"you do realize democrats are PRO united nations right"
And that's suppose to be a good thing, PRO United Nations?
Wouldn't that be hilarious a war between Rep. and Dem. instead of sticking up for one another. After last election I could actually see that happening and we all have the same flag.
DSB
At the time of the civil war the ideologies of the Democrats and Republicans were opposite of what the are now, Dems were conservative and Repubs were liberal so J R is correct
Domewars...........thats like saying, "I won't go to the United States because of the all violent murders in Detroit, Chicago, New York, Newark, Philadelphia, Reading, El Paso, Phoenix, Miami", (you get the point).
My husband and I were gonna go to Ireland here in a couple months. I guess we're gonna have to find some place else to go for our vacation. Any suggestions? :) Damn, I had always wanted to go to Egypt, too, but obviously I'm not going there anytime soon either. I suppose there's always Hawaii!
just so you right wingers might understand this. northern Ireland is an occupied territory that the English refuse to give up. Kinda like Canada taking over Montana. And then imagine that a peace deal is struck and then Canada wants to fly it's flag over gov. buildings in Montana. Get the picture? In northern Ireland, the people who fly the union jack are the "conservatives". They have been killing the local Irish for a century.
Only:??? So the right wing who wants the "new world order" of "free markets" is against one of the institutions that helped create the conservative agenda ? LOL thats why you are right wing, cause you have no clue. This is why I consider these news vines a good source of comedy.
The Republic of Ireland is not part of Northern Ireland. You will be fine in Dublin, Galway, Cork and so many other parts of the Republic. It is a BEAUTIFUL place full of friendly people. You will have a grand time; the Irish will insist on it. Go!!!!!
Andrew Wolf
Technically correct, if you are speaking only of southern Democrats of that particular era. They were later called Dixiecrats. All of the former southern Dixiecrats are now the heart and soul of the Republican party in the south. Just ask Rick Perry or Haley Barbour.
Northern Ireland's violence over the British flag immediately brought to mind Texas and their petitions to secede from the country. You won't find many redneck (and Dixie flag waving good ole boys) ever voting for a Democrat. The mere suggestion would likely get you a good old fashion a$$ whupping.
KMR17,, Ulster is only a small part of Ireland. Also remember there are more people killed here in the states percentage wise compared to NI even with all the trouble in the Ulster. Believe or not Ulster and Southern Ireland are really beautiful and friendly people so go and stay away from the big cities.
You state that as though it were a good thing.
KMR..I assume you mean Ireland, and not Northern Ireland. That being correct. I think you will be fine to go to Ireland..I even suspect that in a few months that this will blow over. In which case Belfast will be fine to visit. Its just a flexing of muscles by the local "Families". You arent going to be going into the ghetto areas anyway.
"The actors come and go, but the play lives on through the generations." - AU
Humans certainly are an interesting species.
KMR17............Don't change your Ireland plans........it is a great place to visit, stunning!! Just stay out of Belfast if you are concerned and that would be like saying 'just stay out of Detroit' :-)
Have a glass of stout and move on.
Sarah Palin used to bring up how great Ireland is and we should become more like it. I wonder if she is rethinking that also as to why nobody wanted her.
AnotherMiddleClass
I could see Democrats in the US not wanting to have a flag in any government building. They wouldn't want to offend anyone.
You must be a lonely, bitter person (but I'm going to feed the troll here). Why would Democrats not want a flag in any Government building? What flag, And HOW exactly would that be offensive? Did you even think before typing your post?
Mrs. KMR17;
When you do go to "The Old Sod" try to fly into Shannon Airport (make sure you and your husband have a window seat)and pray for a clear day. As when the plane makes it's final approach look out and you will see why it is truly known as "The Emerald Isle". I promise you it's a sight to last your life. Erin go braugh.
Dick,
There are two Irelands: the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland.
Palin was talking about the Republic. It is a great place and the larger of the two entities.
I never really figured out what the folks over in Ireland were all pissed at each other about. If it is religion, who would really give a damn, I have no idea what religion these people in my neighborhood are in my little North Texas town, well that is except for one, I saw him at a church, so the secrets out :). Also, I could hardly give a big ratz azz what religion they, they can worship a pile of sticks as far as I am concerned.
Only friggin morons would take an article about sectarian strife in Ireland and morph it into the same old political BS about what's going on in the USA. Unlike politically correct droids in this country, mostly liberal and democrat, that can't separate participatory facism from goose crap, many on boths sides of the debate in Ireland have been co-opted by groups disguised as royalist or nationalist, but are actully just thugs with nothing to do BECAUSE their political system has created thousands of unemployed folks that were used to sucking on the teat of government until goverment went bankrupt - sound familiar Geroge PaulJohn?
COMMENSENSE
Technically correct, if you are speaking only of southern Democrats of that particular era. They were later called Dixiecrats.All of the former southern Dixiecrats are now the heart and soul of the Republican party in the south. Just ask Rick Perry or Haley Barbour.
I suppose all the Repubs who abolished slavery were really Democrats at heart...so the liberals actually freed the slaves. gotta love re-writing history!
Sarah Palin and thinking are oxymoron's, and Palin is just a simple moron.
"I suppose all the Repubs who abolished slavery were really Democrats at heart...so the liberals actually freed the slaves. gotta love re-writing history!"
The root of conservatism is the idea of conserving the status quo, while that of liberalism is liberty and freedom. Yes, liberals freed the slaves, conservatives didn't want change. Take this board back in time and the same who are conservatives here today would be supporters of slavery in 1860. It is more a personallity trait than political theory. Conservatives are scared of change, and back in 1860 that meant free black people; today it means gay marriage.
Actually Jayfos,
That's exactly true. Liberals freed the slaves. As noncoms explains, is sure as hell was not the conservatives of the day--the Democrats.
Illegals,
I actually don't mind at all. I'm not threatened by them at all.
I used to live in Los Angeles and for the most part, Mexican immigrants just want to have a job and raise their kids in a safe environment, just like us.
No need to hate. Calmate. (that means calm down en espanol, amigo)
Jayfos,
Lincoln was a Progressive President. You let labels like Democrat, Liberal, Conservative, and Republican, whose meanings have changed often through out our history, cloud your understanding of actual historical events. Lincoln was no more "Conservative" than Obama is. He did not advocate what the current "Conservative" (aka Tea Party, at least for the past six years) does.
Looks like Ireland is doing good since they got nothing better to do than this nonsense.
How did these comments focus on US politics? The flag issue is complicated in Ireland, don't right-off their protests. Also, the tri-color irish flag flown by idiotic irish-americans is not the correct flag to wave if you're pro-Ireland. Wave the solid green one with the harp in the middle. The tri-color flag has the color of William of Orange represented...it's a flag of a divided Ireland. See, complicated.
"Always after me Lucky Charms"
Lincoln was a progressive...didn't he jail journalists?
I guess in a way he was like democrats now...always trying to stifle free speech.
If the country would have followed the tea party philosophy back then, the slaves would have been freed long before that. As far as I can tell, people have an un-natural fear of patriotic people...kind of like a fear of gays.
"I never really figured out what the folks over in Ireland were all pissed at each other about."
I really never can fathom statements like that. There are countless books,articles,movies,that explain the problems in Ireland. The only way someone can't understand ,is if they don't try to. One of the best books,that on a human level explains the Irish problem with Britain is "Trinity" by Leon Uris. Anyone not understanding after reading that book,will never understand Ireland,or just doesn't want to.
Uncle Bob 512
"I never really figured out what the folks over in Ireland were all pissed at each other about."
It could be Uncle Bob, that I just don't give a $hit enough to research it. If I did I would. You shouldn't be getting your panties in a wad over what someone else thinks or don't think.
@Terry: But in your initial comment you didn't say you simply didn't care enough to research - your comment made it sound like there was something particularly unusual about this conflict that made it hard to understand why they would be fighting. If you had initially said that you're simply not interested, that would be different.
Your initial comment is akin to someone in Northern Ireland saying, "I just don't understand why those American colonists made such a fuss about tea." Your comment is really that silly, because the historical evidence regarding the conflict is out there and easy to understand.
Britain should get out of Ireland. Its the right thing to do.
When those in Northern Ireland Vote to re-unify, that will happen, until then the status will not change. In the long run that is likely, but if its less than 100 years from now I would be amazed.
It's not as simple as just saying Britain should get out.
The rioters don't want to be ruled by the South, they want to remain within the Union, and they are still the majority in the North.
This has been the problem since the troubles in '69 - if Britain leaves there will be civil war between the Unionists and the Republicans.
The sad thing is that there has been real progress since the peace agreement; this is just undermining this and threatens to redress all the good work done by both sides.
If they can't handle a FLAG, then they will probably never be grown up enough to move beyond what they have now.
Freedom 4 Everyone.
You do realize the protests are over "Removing the British Flag"
Speak not of things you know nothing about, and yes I grew up there.
As a Brit, i agree with Freedom4Everyone, I don't know the history between Britain and Ireland, but i hate Britain with a passion, hell, i wish i was born in the US. When i heard Scotland wants out the UK, all i could do was cheer and smile. Scotland would do better without England. England is corrupt, weak and full of cowards who bow before the EU. Northern Ireland should either join the rest of Ireland or become Independent from both Ireland and the Britain. I have no love for Britain, never have done, never will do. Burning the US flag pisses me off more than it does with the British/English flag!
They had a vote in Northern Ireland to unite with Ireland it was defeated, heavily, by almost 99% of the population that voted(58%). It seems they want to stay British.
I read all these comments and as I am from NI and lived through the troubles from 1969 - 1980 can understand why we have a divided USA. To me, I have learned that most Americans don't care about what is going on even in their own country as long as it doesn't affect them personally or financially. Freedom4Everyone states Britain should get out but doesn't understand that the majority in the North has always voted to remain British so your name shouldn't be freedom4Everyone.
Domewars talks about not being grown up and NI can't even handle a flag, how ridiculous and stupid your comment. How would you react if a Latino group wanted the US flag taken down from Government buildings. I hope that those who think taking down the Union Jack from Belfast City Hall is trivial also are aware that Americans also contributed to troubles in NI by contributing monies to the IRA. Don't forget America has always stated that they will never negotiate with terrorist, yet Clinton and others negotiated with the IRA which is a noted terrorist organization. Now in NI there are those who are known IRA members elected to government positions. We all have a right to our opinions but not stupid comments on issues you know nothing about. Americans are always trying to force others to do what they want but they forget that most countries have been around a lot longer and sooner than later Americans will have to take to the streets to fight for the freedom of the majority because there is a small minority who have been elected in our country who is forcing their agenda on the majority and I'm not referring to skin color but I will say they are white and can't handle the diversity in our country. Remember, NI is British and the national flag is the Union Jack so it should be flown over Government buildings just as the Stars and Stripes fly over our Government buildings.
Stamford, the solution is simple but costly. Let England leave and take all the English loveers with them. then there wont be violence. The real problem is NORTH SEA OIL. it's all about the queens company (BP). If the English leave, the Irish get the oil money instead of the Queen MUM. now we can't have that , can we?
winker if you want to make a parallel example it would be," imagine wanting to take the Russian flag off of the white house." the flag aint Irish, it's English. duhhhhhhh The Irish people are being occupied by the English.
It's as though riots occurred in New York because they don't want those pesky votes in the midwest to count.
Winker..."We all have a right to our opinions but not stupid comments on issues you know nothing about."
Sorry, but the First Amendment guarantees the right to any kind of comment.
George..The flag is British(UK,GB)..not English(the flags of the British people are represented within the union jack), and N.Ireland is British so Winker is correct...duhhhhhhhh.
@ Mikey Starsky
That's sad. Your comment and you are just plain sad. I don't know your reasons for your hate of your home country and I don't care!.....but I could never turn my back on mine, not for any reason.
You sir, are spineless! Next thing you know you'll be hating on America and then you'll move to another country.
I feel sorry for your parents! They must be so proud of you! LMFAO
Now I've heard of them all .... due to North Sea Oil ..... roflmao ....
Its worth taking the time to read the 2002 legislation, link below, is short, its not a library shelf full :) The legislation lays out the whole rationale etc susinctly and carefully. If anyone wants to understand the weapons issue background in NI, its a must read.
http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/cm200203/cmselect/cmniaf/67/6705.htm
Trust me it does mention "North Sea Oil" ....... rofl :)
For anyone still geographically challenged, here are the North Sea Oil Fields:
http://www.acorn-ps.com/web/page/oilgas/nsfields/nnsmap.htm
...... and the Southern part of the North Sea Oil sector
http://www.acorn-ps.com/web/page/oilgas/nsfields/snsmap.htm
....... Department of Energy Maps
http://og.decc.gov.uk/en/olgs/cms/data_maps/data_maps.aspx
hope david got out of n. ireland before the riots started. hope he made it back to the us of a.
The politicos settle things down a bit and think they have peace to N Ireland...............They haven't resolved a damn thing the hatred is still there and always will be till Britian goes home and takes her turncoat Irishmen with her.
Run the English and their sympathizers out of Ireland and burn down anything that even LOOKS like a church.
Imbeciles.
This will be the headlines that peoples of other countries will be reading about us here in the US in the not to distant future unless something changes ... sad
British flags in the US. LOL
Dolt
thats not what i was refering to moron ...
lol, My other half is American, she would rather see all the States divided than be under Obama's leadership. For me on the other hand, i just want to move, live and work in the US, Britain sucks, it always has done and always will do :D
The first thing out of your mouth is an insult. Your a coward.......dolt.
Mikey, and my other half is British ... lol. This last election cycle was her first in the states. She was sickened by all the retoric from both sides ...
Pyro, if she could see that, then she is worth more than her weight in gold. One smart girl that isn't brainwashed by the rhetoric, and can think for herself, daaaamn.
Both myself and my otherhalf love the US, but she just hates the current government. I don't know if its because the different skin colour, him being awful or some things he does affects some states and not all. For me, as i live here in the UK, US politics of course don't effect me. The only thing i somewhat dislike about the US is when it comes to telling other countries what it should do and when it invades some countries illeagaly. But then again, all countries do that so America shouldn't really get the blame, after all, Britain did much worse during the days of the Empire. I just don't want to see the US break apart by one man :/ :(
I would think a reasonable compromise would be to stick a smaller British flag outside the building at a respectable doft or tilt 17 or 18 days of the year, especially in light of the historic horrific sufferings of the Irish people. It is certainly far better than a renewal of all this terrible violence. - Rick Carter
(Just remember that the more you tilt it, the more it begins to show its true colors once again.) - RC
(In the past it is not unheard of for flags to get doffed when notables pass in review. This would merely be one more occasion in respect to the Irish people themselves.) - RC
(And presumably Ireland would be required to do the same thing, at any official Irish buildings on British soil. Mutual respect can indeed go a very long way,especially if you have to live side by side together!) - RC
you guys are just not getting this. putting the English flag up is like going to Poland and putting up a nazi flag. It's like putting the flag of treason (confederate flag) over an American building. it's just wrong.
and you just dont get its a British Flag not English..Its like putting the Stars and stripes over the White House.
Actually, it's more like putting the Stars and Stripes over a government building in Puerto Rico. It is a part of the U.S. but not the Capitol.
Northern Ireland is a part of the U.K., but not the Capitol.
George, I think you are thoroughly confused. The argument is over taking down the British flag which is what flies considering Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom. I think you missed this part of the article:
Well, it's not quite like a local government. But it would be like if Puerto Rico wanted to remove the US flag from their buildings. There would be plenty of people on the island that would NOT be okay with that.
Everyone is comparing this act to something else which it can not be compared to. No, this story is about a Union Jack being flown over a N. Ireland government building. You know what that's like? It's like a Union Jack being flown over a N. Ireland government building. To say anything else, I believe, is to disregard the whole history of N. Ireland and its people.
Quite frankly, I think the IRA and the UVF should just be locked in a room to fight it out. Both are terrorist groups which do nothing to help the people on either side of this issue.
Why don't they all just go to the bar?
How do you tell if an Irishman is on the wagon? One's missing.
What's an Irish seven course meal? A six pack and a potato.
Mr. Static;
Thanx for the flashback, the last time I heard that was from a W.A.S.P. classmate of mine in the 9th grade. (Circa 1969)
Zounds! It sounds like the UN should intervene in this domestic dispute. The US should send in an intermediary force to become the target of the violence instead of the police. It has worked so well elsewhere hasn't it?
This isn't over yet. The English need to get out of Ireland! The Empire is over.
What's odd is most of them don't want Britain gone......hence the conflict.
The IRA dont even want the Brits out any more. They have consolidated their power in Northern Ireland, and if the country was unified there would be no need for them.
What about the USA's empire, is it over......hopefully??
Too much oil involved, BP, i mean the English, will never leave.
This message is for another middleclass. They would fly the Mexican flag because it would make them feel better about not being seen as racist. They may as well fly it anyway they are giving the country to them one illegal at a time anyway.
maybe you should direct you anger at the hidden rich who created this problem. it's the foundation families like Morgan, Rocafella, DuPont, Rothschild etc. who created this for cheap labor to keep our wages down. To foster the "new world order" that Bush sr. talked about. The law say's you can't hire undocumented people. So why are all the big corporations employing them? Walmart hires them and then gives them information on how to get food stamps and other entitlements. I dont see you getting upset with Walmart. of course not, just blame the dems as you are told to.
I live in a strange neighborhood. On the 4th of July, almost everyone flies the Stars & Stripes. But, some will put the Mexican flag beneath it. So, I took a survey. Seems we get flags, of different countries, flown on their respective independence days. There's a Swedish couple who flies the Swedish flag, everyday of the year! But, Ol' Glory is over it, come the 4th.
Mr. Roadkill;
It is called Pride & Respect. As a veteran I am proud of my country and fly the U.S. flag, but some of my fellow friends and neighbors of Irish/Italian/Polish/English etc. decent fly their respective flags of heritage during the year but, the one thing they always make sure of is that the flag of their heritage is always subordinate (flown underneath) to "Old Glory" if you research the law it is perfectly legal to and should (morally) be done that way. Unless you live on the "Left" coast where they allow students of questionable citizen status take down the flag and run up the Mexican flag on May 5th.
When this story first aired what about 3-4 months ago or less I said then that it is no different than the blacks in this country who are still holding on to the hatred for the South states that want to fly their flag.
The blacks were not the only ones in history that were slaves and terribly mistreated by their "masters".
You can't change history and the Irish suffered just as bad under the English.
So yes I can see why they would not want that flag in their present to remind them of being virtual slaves for centuries to the English in the past.
What is really sad is this has nothing to do with pride or religious freedom the bottom line is about territory and has always been the main root of the problem. There has been a turf war going on and in the end all the so called "reasons" will end up being about money and power because he who has the most land wins.
Your right..The IRA(real, provo, sinn fein, etc.), and UDV(UVF, loyalist, red hand, etc.) have areas cut out that they are in charge of. All criminal activity must pay tribute to those organizations. They are nothing more then organized crime families that play at politics to cover up their real operations, and goals.
Coming to an American city near you.......
British Empire internal affairs. They'll work it out eventually. It seems to me that at some point everyone would want to just get on with life and dump the strife.
Is the world will back to the very fine mosaic divisions for new wars of life and economy under the name of race and religion
And here I thought the Irish had perhaps managed to grow up. Oh well.
Well, technically, these people identify themselves more as British...
I don't really know what you have against the Irish, though. Do you think you are above them as an American? As a "grown-up" yourself?
I too think it is a little silly for people to fight over pieces of cloth, but I wouldn't denigrate a whole group of people because of the actions of a few who don't even fit into your description.
No, I just have been a) exposed to Northern Irish who actually export their sectarian filters to behavior here in the US, and b) genuinely hopeful that they were getting over it. They're not a bad lot really.
I say, Britain give Ireland independence. Let them be a self-governing nation and give them nothing. Chances are, the clever ones will make an exodus and those who stay will only 'go down with the ship'!
Ireland is independent. Northern Ireland is a part of the U.K. and the majority like it that way.
David, your comment makes little sense to me. If anything, I believe that N. Ireland would be subsumed into the Republic if it were to break with Britain. Although the Republic has seen better days, it is by most accounts, doing well for the position it is in after the global market meltdown. I don't see any credible evidence for "ship sinking" here.
I wouldn't discount Irish folks to that extent. One of my most favorite US president was Irish.
England has had a nasty habit of poking their nose in just too many places in the world... most notably India and China. And they didn't have to live with the English nowhere compared to what the Irish have gone through.
I spent a little time in Belfast for work. The key to defusing the long term mess is to secularise the schools.
Get all the kids together in the same play grounds and remove all the religious mumbo jumbo ... within 10 years you will have peace.
These comments show that Americans are just as stupid as the Northern Irish.
At least the Irish try and do something to change things, here in the US all we do is post out opinion on some blog and go on living what life our government allows us to live, we in the US are the sheep, not the Irish.
Give both sides a bottle of booze that should calm things down.
Why don't the English just give Ireland back to the Irish ???
As for Scots or English living in Northern Ireland.... shut up or get out !!!
The sun does set on the "English Empire" !!!!!
Ireland is Irish, and Irish owned owned. Northern Ireland is British, and British owned. Not English.
Andrew Wolf
Don't you mean brittish stolen, not brittish owned?
Or British under the principle of self-determination? Northern Ireland use to be a part of the Irish Free State but the Parliament of Northern Ireland chose to opt out of the newly independent Ireland and petitioned to rejoin the British union.
Great Britain went to war over the Falklands.
Do you really think they'd let go of the last piece of Empire that's in their backyard?
Well, I've heard they're considering letting go of Scotland.
Maybe it's time for a FREE Ireland? After all they do have their own country, right? Just give them what they want so the violence can end...
Ireland is Free..It is its own country. The Republic of Ireland. Northern Ireland is British. The vast majority of the people of N.Ireland want it to stay British. Just because a small amount of people want it to be a part of Ireland(or its own country is some cases) doesn't mean it should be. Texas wont be its own country because a small percentage of the population wants to secede. Right?
@Andew you may be wrong about Texas. The % is not as small as you may think. As per Ireland, the very fact they call it northern "Ireland" rather than southern britain tells me that may be there is some merit in it being part of Ireland.