E-mail updates
Follow on Twitter
Subscribe to RSSThe carcasses of a family of elephants have been found in a wildlife reserve in Kenya - the victims of the worst massacre on record by ivory poachers there. NBC News' Rohit Kachroo reports.
TSAVO EAST NATIONAL PARK, Kenya -- The bodies of five elephants lie under the shade of the trees – their giant ears flapping in the wind, but their majestic bodies totally still.
It is a gruesome sight in this, one of Kenya’s oldest, largest and most stunningly beautiful national parks.
As our helicopter circles the scene, we glimpse two other elephants nearby: A mother lying dead next to a baby calf - her daughter. The bodies of another three siblings sit in the baking heat. Other corpses are slumped across several acres of parkland.
In total, there are 12 slain elephants – a family, murdered on Saturday in Kenya’s bloodiest attack by poachers on record.
The spot is so remote – inaccessible by road vehicles – that it was only possible for us to reach them by the air. And yet, the poachers are thought to have trekked for days – maybe weeks – through the dense bushes with the intention of killing the family for their horns. It is, perhaps, an indication of the poachers’ determination, and the sophistication of their planning.
Armed with guns and axes, the 15-strong gang struck during the day. They shot the animals one by one before sawing off their tusks. Park rangers chased their footprints for 10 miles into the bush, but the trail vanished. Investigators believe that they may have dumped the tusks in the park to collect later, before splitting up and disappearing into the woods.
Wilson Korir, who leads the military-style defense force tasked with protecting the park from poachers, said: “These guys [the gang of poachers] are now looking for some crude transport like the use of a donkey to be able to transfer the tusks to the nearest center where they can ferry it using a vehicle.”
“We have a lot of covert operations going on outside. We have positioned a platoon of rangers outside there just to wait and see. If they appear they will pounce and arrest.”
Accompanied by rangers, we leave our helicopter and walk towards the spot where some of the bodies lie. We are all struck by the stench of the corpses, as flies swarm and maggots eat away at them. The face of each of the animals is badly severed – it is clear where the poachers’ axes have struck.
From the position of the elephants, investigators suspect that there was a stampede as the animals tried -- and failed -- to race away.
It is grim evidence of a growing problem for Kenya. According to the country’s Prime Minister Raila Odinga, 360 elephants were killed in Kenya last year – almost one a day – up from 289 in 2011.
Demand comes from the growing middle class in China, where ground tusk is said to have medicinal value, and ivory is still desirable in jewelry and home decorations. A pound of illegal ivory can fetch around $1,000.
“The dynamics of poaching are taking a different angle altogether because there is a lot of demand for ivory from outside,” Korir said.
“But in the history of Tsavo National Park this is the worst.”
He welcomes promises of greater investment in wildlife security, and calls by world leaders for a global campaign against trafficking. But his priority now is to find the poachers behind Saturday’s attack.
“The message is clear. They come (back) into the national park at their own peril. The rangers are there and waiting for them. They come and they will be eliminated.
“These are dangerous gangs. They carry firearms. There are no two ways about it – fire for fire. So let them come. We are equally prepared. We are waiting.”
Wildlife activists are calling for Interpol and the World Customs Association to work together to crackdown on the trade in ivory, issuing heavier penalties for those caught illegally dealing. Poaching has increased recently, fueled by a demand in Asia for jewelry and ornaments. ITV's Paul Davies reports.
Related stories:
Cursed creature: India battles rhino poachers
Rhino slaughter in South Africa sets savage pace
Hunted for horns worth more than gold, S. Africa's rhinos face worst year on record
Kenya Wildlife Services step up collaring efforts in wake of increased poaching
Leave a Comment:
Poaching has to STOP!!!!!!!!! I hope these @$$holes get shot dead, they don't deserve to be here on this planet!!!! The world would be so much better and far more beautiful without these wastes of life!!
I would like to see them take the poachers, castrate them and hang them bound right above those elephants until they died from lack of food or water, or attacked by other wild animals..... Seems fitting for anyone that would do that to a majestic animal like an elephant. I would have no remorse in doing that....
okay, just a small quibble:
Elephants cannot be murdered. Murder is an act on a human being.
This makes me sick. One of the most spiritual creatures on the earth.
Really???? In the grand scheme of things, does your grammar nazi comment really matter?!?! Useless.
haha spiritual creatures! there's never an excuse for poor grammar. peasant.
Elephants are revreed through history as both workers and in spiritual articles.
Many people would rather die than see an elephant die.
I believe elephants and mammals have souls.
Some humans do not qualify, though, to me.
Jenny - You're an idiot!
What is your excuse for poor puncuation?
Aren't those ancient spiritual histories of elephants some of the same sources that say the tusk can cure something?
punctuation smunctuation
Really Jenny? Anytime someone or something is brutally killed I consider it murder whether it is a human being or an innocent animal.
Apparently, you have no soul and I agree with LoganGirl you are an idiot!
Two things to help remedy this situation: Predator drones and Hellfire missiles. I would think silent death from above would be a pretty decent deterrent to the poachers.
Jenny-
Both humans AND animals have beating hearts and breathe. When someone brutally harms a human or animal and makes that all stop, that is considered murder.
Also, to open your mind up a little more: elephants actually have a gathering and mourn when they see another elephant's life lost. That is spiritual.
I hope you learned something today.
Jenny Wernerr---would "horribly, needlessly and callously SLAUGHTERED with impunity" meet with your approval then?
I'm hurt, Sheryl. I thought we had something special.
You can consider it murder all you want but it isn't. Comprende?
i think you mean without impunity.
No Stupido......'impunity' means without consequence; you're being redundant.
invest in a dictionary, annie.
so the elephants were killed with exemption from punishment? makes sense.
Look it up yourself; your middle school education reveals your ignorance.
and since there is a good chance you don't know what redundant means:
This is horrible. The elephants are already near extinction. They are such beautiful animals. The cause of all these murders is due to China, Japan and other asian nations that believe the tusks are medicinal. To stop the killing is going to be a hard mission and as the soldier said in the video the poachers need to be killed..."fire for fire."
i love being right
"Without Impunity". Double Negative in this case.
Seriously Jenny? Animals are slaughtered and you're using it as an opportunity to be a dick to people who actually care about animals? The problems are yours, please knock it off. Some of your comments are beyond bizarre.
no. no double negative. try again.
i just want an admission that the proper phrase is without impunity.
@ Jenny Wernerr
The difference between you and those exhibiting poor grammar, they can always learn proper grammar, you on the other hand are destined to remain the smug ass clown you've shown yourself to be.
probably
Easy solution to these kind of acts... an eye for an eye.
They have to start killing the poachers - these are the only animals who do not belong in the park!
The lust for products made of rhino and elephant ivory (as well as shark fins for soup) is fueled by the new Chinese and Vietnamese middle class. They now have the disposable income--thanks to American and European companies outsourcing jobs to Asia--to afford quack medicines made from the horns and tusks of these beautiful animals.
Think twice before you buy products made in China and other Asian countries. Think of that new big-screen TV as a bullet in the head of an elephant. Buy American, buy local, buy used products from thrift and antiques stores and off of eBay. If Asian incomes dry up, so will the demand for ivory, and poaching will no longer be profitable for Africans.
Jenny Wernerr, Your parents should be arrested for creating a LOAD like you.
my parents are already in jail for meth
Jenny, the best part of you ran down your mothers leg.
ew
The poachers deserve to be tortured and killed, and so do the pieces of crap that employ the poachers. And I would add Jenny to the group.
All: Jenny Wernerr is a troll, just looking for some attention. Don't feed the troll.
Jenny Wernerr, In the mind of God... the killing of the "persons" of a fellow species as intelligent, emotionally complex, loving and guiles as the Elephant is... MURDER and given that they are nearing extinction these murders by any definition rise to the level of GENOCIDE!
Unfortunately, what South Africa is doing with their wild Rhino population to protect against poaching may be what's needed to protect the elephants in Kenya and elsewhere, that being surgically removing 80% of an elephant's tusk making it unprofitable to hunt and kill these wonderful animals.
The tusks are mainly for defense, but the elephants for more likely to be killed FOR their tusks than to be killed without them.
It's not an ideal solution, but then there are fewer and fewer solutions left that work.
you have no respect for women :(
you can't murder an elephant.
Ok whomever this jenny person/thing is who cares what she has to say...she's a simple person so screw off jenny. This story is so sad and i hope they catch and kill those poachers and all poachers for that matter..I dont even want to kill a mouse, i cant imagine how scared those poor elephants were, lord please let this animal cruelty end...
sorry typos
The tusks are mainly for defense, but the elephants are far more likely to be killed FOR their tusks than to be killed without them.
Jenny, get off this site. You have nothing worthwhile to offer, and you're pissing everybody off.
@Jenny: You're no better than the poachers.
I hope these bastards die a painfull and horrid death..this kind of crap pisses me off!
Mozzie,
I thought you said that this is what she wanted....
Jenny,
90% of all your comments seem to be collaped for a reason, just like your brain. Go figure!..
Jenny,
We should date.
Don't let Jenny fool you.
Jenny is a dude so do not picture a woman. He's a gay dude that hates women and is working at other people to hate women.
Just ignore him as tough as it may be and it will go away...
The reality is this: all of these animals are doomed. Elephants, tigers, rhinos, mountain gorillas, orangutans, bluefin tuna, several species of whales, polar bears, and more. We are a plague upon this planet. We have long ago outstripped the carrying capacity of our habitat. Homo sapiens is causing an extinction event on par with that caused by meteorite strikes. We are changing the climate, we are so numerous. Billions of us. Most large animals number in the thousands or millions, but we are in the billions. Nature needs to get it together and do something to control our numbers - but everytime it comes up with a virus of some sort to do it, we clever naked apes outsmart nature. That cant go on much longer. We are way overdue for a population crash. I suspect it will come in the form of some virus.
It may take another major catastrophic event however, like a meteorite strike, which kinda wipes the slate clean as far as large animals go anyway.
Its tragic what we are doing, simply because we are self-aware, and we should be better than this, but we are a vicious, locust-like species, in spite of our ability to think abstractly and create beauty and culture. Our brutish nature ultimately outstrips our assets and we have become a detriment to increasing biodiversity for the planet.
Extinctions have happened long before we arrived on the scene. Millions of species have come and gone. And millions more will come and go before this planet has come to it's end.
Ultimately, I am disappointed with us as a species. I would like to think we are better, but we are not. ALL of us are culpable, we are all part of this human race. And we all have the qualities that allow us to flood over the planet like the plague we have become.
Theres theories out there amongst ufo researchers that if aliens are abducting and genetically manipulating us, it may be to create a new and improved variety of homo sapiens to replace the current bunch of "flood". I do hope there is some merit to this. Perhaps aliens are out there, and acting like curators of a great natural landscape - and they would like to keep us around, but only if they can breed out our more brutish nature, as well as our penchant to breed like rabbits.
Yeah--but I blow hot & cold.
I call on China to ban all things ivory and make possesion of such things illegal. It is time for China to step up to this horrific problem and acknowledge their role in it.
Why not put a bounty on Poachers worth more that they get for the tusks? Then they will hunt each other? Why not arm people with orders to shoot to kill poachers?
I agree Mary. This situation hurts my heart. I so much wish I could tell the Chinese who provide the market for tusks that they have blood on their hands and if elephants go extinct their extinction will be forever linked with China and it's people. Some legacy.
Bless your naiveté. Not only will the Chinese government ignore your plea, they consider Americans to be a sub-species of humans not worth their time to consider our opinions. Besides that, it's not only China who are the perpetrators here, its the whole Asian community--especially Vietnam--who are causing the demand for ivory.
I'm afraid that sadly, it would make no difference to them. They have no heart. They won't stop the slaughter until all the elephants are killed.
@ Robbie1437294...I couldn't agree more! Americans DO need to stop buying Asian made products for the reasons you stated, but also, it'll bring more of those jobs back to the US and people here can get their jobs back and let us regain America. Goin' back to the story though, I always thought that for the most part, Asian people as a whole, were smart, but to think Rhino horn, elephant tusks and shark fin soup is somehow "medicinal" or magical in some way, is down right stupid, and that stupidity is wiping out animals at an alarming rate. What will they do when they've killed them all? For the Asians, or other people, who're found by friends or neighbors to have ANY of the listed items above, should have a conscious, and anonymously turn in the people in possession for a reward through the WWF and whatever country the product came from, then have the poachers fingers removed so that'll make it a lil harder to ever pull a trigger or take an ax to another living creature again.
Jenny, not to outperform you in the corrections of others, but using the word "murder" is not poor grammar, it's simply the misuse of a word. There actually is a difference, as grammar corresponds to the way a sentence is constructed. The real issue is why you're so mean to others; there's simply no point to it.
Cows are considered "sacred" by some people, they are intelligent, and how many do we kill each year in this country? It is only murder if you waste the meat in God's eyes since he put the animals here for us to use as we see fit. We are supposed to "take care" of them just like this planet however. Killing for no reason at all would be a no-no.
I wonder what an elephant burger or steak tastes like? $1k a pound for the tusks and look at all that meat. Just need a business man to step in to make an elephant and rhino farm since there is so much profit to be had. Waste not, want not I say. It would help out the populations and help provide a legal means to supply the asian market its demand for ivory.
If it could break even profit wise it would be better then pouring money into trying to "prevent" poachers. Kill the profit and kill the poachers. Want to get rid of guns? Legalize drugs, which would help to get rid of all the gangs in America or at least take the profit out of them. That would reduce a third to a half of all gun related homicides. Why do it if you are not making any money and you cannot earn a living? How do you think gang members are able to recruit "new" gangs members, THEY HAVE LOTS OF MONEY MORONS.
How are rich people able to get laws changed that help them, but hurt America? THEY HAVE LOTS OF MONEY! Remove the insane profit margins morons and letting people acquire as much as they can. It is pretty simple, but I am surrounded by morons that cannot think or act for themselves. How many times do you need to watch any of these "last man standing" shows that involve people voting other people off to see that we start to lie, cheat, and steal anytime the reward is great enough? Once the reward goes up over a couple thousand you will start to see a difference in how people act towards each other, or how they "play the game". When this game is life, do you think that people will magically act any differently?
Remove the huge rewards/profits, and people will start to treat each other (and animals) a little better.
The rate of extinction of animals has reached 100-1,000 times that suggested by the fossil records before humans came on the scene. Alarmingly, that rate can reach 10,000 in just two decades due to deforestation, loss of habitat and food supply, and, of course, wanton slaughter as in this situation. The extent of the extinctions is way beyond what is natural and it's getting worse. (see article printed in The Guardian "Humans Driving Extinctions Faster Than Species Can Evolve. http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/mar/07/extinction-species-evolve)
Isn't there even ONE wealthy philanthropist billionaire who cares about conservation and this slaughter that could start a non-profit group, hire our out of work American marine veterans to be trained to track these criminals down and stop this?
Not even one? Where are the drones?
Such a shame. Terribly sad.
Oh, brother. I'm sorry you can't see how stupid and irresponsible your remarks are. Animals are not here to entertain humans. They are as entitled to be on this planet and live their lives out naturally as we do. We have no right to interfere with that.
Very sad seeing this. Really makes you wonder about the human race. I fear before long many of these great animals will only exist in zoos and even then I imagine that will be only for a short time. It is time we change our ways and start being better stewards of this planet. Minor changes (one's that are easily made) can make major differences and not cause any drastic alterations to the life we are used to, it can be done and should be. The chickens have come home to roost people. I agree that one of the first things that needs done is global bans and economic action taken against China (and rest of Asia) in some form or another. The world has to come together and say enough. As for the poachers, need to have open season on them and provide bounties as well as shoot on site. If they do find them they deserve to be strung up and left as a warning just like they did with pirates way back when. Here's to hoping we can learn and change our ways before it is to late.
It is time
The Chinese are not keepers of the environment. It seems they have no love for the earth or it's creatures. Until the poachers no longer have a market for ivory this will never end. Time to hold China accountable. I try very hard to not buy products from China but it's getting harder and harder to do.
The troll jenny is obviously one of those Can't Understand Normal Thinking.
She's the perfect example of one.
Asians exploit the animal kingdom more than any other race of people, and that's saying something.
Be it slaughtering whales by the thousands for Japanese "research", or slaughtering tigers and elephants so these morons can grind up elephant tusks and dehydrated tiger penis to rub on their bald heads, it's INFURIATING.
Consume, consume, consume! They treat the animal kingdom like they do their environment - like SH!T
Asians exploit the animal kingdom more than any other race of people, and that's saying something.
Be it slaughtering whales by the thousands for Japanese "research", or slaughtering tigers and elephants to a fraction of their populations just 30 years ago, so these morons can grind up elephant tusks and dehydrated tiger pen!s to rub on their bald heads, it's INFURIATING.
Consume, consume, consume! They treat the animal kingdom like they do their environment - like $hit!!
That's what I was thinking. Why not turn the elephants into an asset? Like the lost war on drugs in the US. If you can't fight them, tax them.
Alternately, I was wondering if it would work to give away, free, the guns that rangers use to knock out elephants and take blood samples, etc. They do no permanent harm to the elephant. The poachers could do the same, cut off the tusks and run off before the elephant wakes.
It's by no means a good solution, but a living tusk-less elephant is much better than a dead elephant. I am sure they also will suffer psychological damage. But they would still be alive.
WRONG!
the REAL cause is Whites' continual exploitations of Africa. if Whites paid their fair share for the natural resources they have been taking from Africa, Africans would not have had to resort to killing animals to feed their hungry families, not to mention the damages done during the colonial period.
How about a documentary that puts this in perspective?
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/408563/20121126/stealing-africa-mining-zambia-poverty-glencore-mopani.htm
also, these calls for boycotts have been going on for how many years now and how have they worked out so far? Walmart stock is up over 20% Y-o-Y, consumer debts, student loan debts are at an all time high, real unemployment is double digit, do you SERIOUSLY think people would be able to afford more expensive non-Chinese products?
i know you all shop at Walmart.
hi! amy, i never said the use of murder was bad grammar. i was simply responding to someone who claimed poor grammar was acceptable. please pay more attention.
I remember seeing this Nature episode of this Japanese man who would raise seagulls. Watching him try to teach them to fly was the most beautiful thing ever..he would run along the beach waving his arms slowly up and down and the young seagulls would follow him and eventually take flight.
He's also Japanese. I'd guess that like any other people on the face of the planet they are both good and evil, smart and stupid.
Jenny, technically (by definition of law), yes murder is not referenced to the killing of animals, however, taking a look beyond the primary definition, lets say....looking at the synonym of murder which is; SLAUGHTER. Now let us take this one step further; POACHING; an illegal act of KILLING an animal(s). Killing:the act of causing the death of a person or animal. MURDER!!! No matter how you want to spin this, these beautiful animals were killed for their tusks. Absolutely despicable.
no, not by definition of law, and not technically. they can't be murdered. by definition. period. we aren't looking beyond the "primary" (whatever that means) definition. words have meaning. all they had to do was use the proper word.
Jenny Dude...
How's your colon looking today?
Have a nice weekend...
Jenny, LOOK UP THE DEFINITION!!!! Geez, use your god given brain. Obviously words have meaning murder is killing, killing is slain, slain is poaching, so YES they were murdered. Here I made it easy for you:
noun
1. Law. the killing of another human being under conditions specifically covered in law. In the U.S., special statutory definitions include murder committed with malice aforethought, characterized by deliberation or premeditation or occurring during the commission of another serious crime, as robbery or arson (first-degree murder) and murder by intent but without deliberation or premeditation (second-degree murder)
2. Slang. something extremely difficult or perilous: That final exam was murder!
3. a group or flock of crows.
verb (used with object)
4. Law. to kill by an act constituting murder.
5. to kill or slaughter inhumanly or barbarously.
6. to spoil or mar by bad performance, representation, pronunciation, etc.: The tenor murdered the aria
Catch the poachers responsible for this, torture them, and execute them by letting an elephant trample them or gore them with their tusks
Thank you China. Thanks to the ignorance in your population, we'll lose the wild elephants and tigers because your old men need a magical cure for their limp dicks. Here's a though, how about you educate your people?
China is a cancer.
And America is the cigarette.
The Chinese are the end users for this slaughter. The Chinese government needs to launch a campaign across its rural villages about the destruction of the animal parts trade. They need to dispel the notions that rhino horn, tiger penis, or shark fins can cure diseases. Ignorance and greed are driving this and as long as the world refuses to deal responsibly with the roots of that ignorance and greed the poachers will continue to multiply. Campaigns of this sort have worked in America and the Chinese need to begin in their nation as well.
Welcome to the world China, you aren't a kid any more. It's time to start acting responsibly.
It is poor grammar to begin a sentence with And. Additionally, America has no blame for this demand of ivory in China, you didn't place the responsibility where it lies. Two strikes for you, why don't you go away before you strike out?
Common misconception. And is perfectly acceptable to start sentences with.
I see you end your sentences in a preposition.
yep. another common misconception. those are writing rules for grade school children.
Jenny Wernerr either is trolling, or she isn't as smart as she believes herself to be. She just ended a sentence with a preposition. Ignore her. This is about the elephants.
sentence? check.
end in preposition? check.
waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa?
and you are the rank puss that seeps out of infected wounds. Sounds like you would be happier with and have more respect for the poachers that MURDERED this family of elephants.
#teampoachers
This is not addressed to Jenny Wernerr, but to the other readers.
Supercilious, arrogant and disrespectful posts are intended only to be annoying and provocative. They do not add any positive quality to the thread. They are designed to induce angry responses.
I recommend we ignore the instigative, incendiary and consumptive posts. To respond is to waste your time, which you can never recover. She intends to waste your most valuable asset: your life.
Don't let Jenny fool you.
Jenny is a dude so do not picture a woman. He's a gay dude that hates women and is working at other people to hate women.
Just ignore him as tough as it may be and it will go away...
GM or GA, CD.
Thanks. That explains a lot. I never will understand why anyone would hate all women. Individual women, yes. I can understand why certain female persons (I call them He11 b14ch3s) are easy to dislike intensely, or hate.
I won't ask how you know this. LOL.
This isn't a China "thing" - this is a Homo sapiens "thing". We have been doing this since we arrived on the scene. Native American Indians caused a massive extinction event when they reached North America some 10-12,000 years ago. Theres evidence of indiscriminate, mass killings, where herds of large animals (wooly mammoths, amongst others) were driven off cliffs. More meat than a tribe could eat before it rotted. They did it because they could, and they drove the mammoth, giant sloth, lion (yes, we had those here in North America) and many many other large animals to extinction before the European colonists got here.
When the Europeans got here, they busied themselves not just extincting wild bison, but the native americans themselves, along with passenger pigeons. Many wading birds were on thier way to extinction because the ladies desired thier breeding plumage for big victorian hats. Thanks to the formation of the Audubon society, and a change in fashion, several wading birds were spared extinction at the last moment. We slaughtered passenger pigeons that used to be so numerous they could darken the sky with thier flocks. We extincted the Carolina parakeet - farmers shot them because they were eating thier fruit. And on and on it goes. No one culture, no one race is exempt. Wherever there is man, there is indiscriminate slaughter. We are too clever, and we are too many. And we all have essentially the same brain. Even now, we are overfishing our oceans, draglining and tearing up the benthos, and spewing plastics from one end of the planet to the other. These plastics are breaking down into microscopic particles now, and causing havoc in the oceans.
We cant help ourselves. Its our nature. and Nature is savage. The fittest thrive. And we are excessively "fit" - but our own cleverness is going to cause us to crash. Its inevitable. It is already starting. We will be living more mariginal lives, as much of the planet already does. We will exhaust and poison the resources of the planet to the point where places that have not known subsistence living, will experience it, where the young and the elderly die. This is already happening in Africa, and it is part of what compels them to further decimate an already decimated landscape.
I see an increasingly dystopian / marginal existence for those that hang on. On top of that, there will always be a portion of our number that will be able to monopolize the dwindling resources - that too is already going on, and getting worse. They will be hard-pressed to protect what they have from an increasingly desperate mass of people.
All of this has to happen, before our numbers can drop to sustainable levels again. The thing that is saddest about this, is we can limp on for centuries living a marginal life, ravaged by privation and disease, before balance is reached.
A new dark age....
Is it possible for a country to be a cigarette?
devlsadvacut,
Jamaica probably qualifies as a "cigarette," although the island is not rolled as nicely as commercially-packaged cigarettes.
Tear :-( This is sooo sad. You can believe in the tusks being beneficial for medicinal purposes, but you don't have to actually kill an elephant to get them. I don't blame China, I blame ignorance... Elephants naturally die all the time. I guess just not enough for their wants. With that said, why does everyone care about someone who claims they know the English language so well, but doesn't even capitalize? Seriously....
3.
with impunity
b. with no care or heed for such consequences.
It would appear Jenny smarty pants, that depending on the context in which the sentence was stated, "with impunity" is also a correct phrase. The poachers slaughtered the elephants with impunity. This rule fits perfectly with Annies sentence, and since it was her sentence, that makes you wrong!!! LOL You Double Negative Girl You... ROTFL at your _____— __—
AND JUST FYI... Dealing with idiots is never a waste of my time. :-)
that almost made sense except for the part where it didn't. stay in school.
inMYday,
I have a very close friend who is a psychologist and I e-mailed Jenny's comments to her. She can analyze just about anything in writing when it's psychologically disturbing and she immediately told me this.
She has seen it many, many times and she has years of experience.
Have a nice weekend...
If I caught these poachers, I would first chop their arms off , then shoot them dead.
why shoot them dead? Take off their legs too and just leave them there to be eaten by the maggots just the elephants
My thoughts exactly. Anyone caught poaching should have their hands cut off with a rusty axe and left to fend for themselves.
Elephants are one of the smartest animals on this earth. They have the mental capabilities as most 3-5 year olds (if not higher). I've seen elephants paint pictures of trees and other elephants, play instruments, and use tools to problem solve. There are so many documented stories out there showing that these animals are brilliant creatures.
internet tough guy.
Internet, uneducated, heartless soul you are, Jenny.
If you don't care about these elephants and the horrific situation that happend then get the heck off this page!
Don't let Jenny fool you.
Jenny is a dude so do not picture a woman. He's a gay dude that hates women and is working at other people to hate women.
Just ignore him as tough as it may be and it will go away...
@addy: While I disagree with practically everything Jenny has to say, she should have a right to say it. Remember the First Amendment.
To all others: Regarding the grammar issue, it is indeed acceptable to begin a sentence with the conjunction "and." And regarding use of a preposition at the end of a sentence, sometimes it is possible to end a sentence with a preposition and sometimes it is not.
Refer to: http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/ending-prepositions.aspx
"Here's an example of a sentence that can end with a preposition: What did you step on? A key point is that the sentence doesn't work if you leave off the preposition. You can't say, "What did you step?" You need to say, "What did you step on?""
"But, you can't always end sentences with prepositions. When you could leave off the preposition and it wouldn't change the meaning, you should leave it off. Here is a cell phone commercial that gets on my nerves.
[Where you at?]
For the purposes of today's discussion, let's ignore the fact that they left out the verb "are" because I've definitely heard people ask, "Where are you at?"
The problem is that "Where are you at?" doesn't need the preposition at the end. If you say "Where are you?" it means the same thing. So the "at" is unnecessary. You should leave it off."
http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/ending-prepositions.aspx
Good post, Basil.
However, I must ask, on what did you step?
LOL.
Winston Churchill supposedly responded to criticism of his use of prepositions by saying, in effect, "this sort of sophomoric arrogance is something which with I will not put."
inMYday: "On what did you step?" On my way to work today? Trust me, you don't want to know. (-:
If I caught these poachers, I would be in Kenya.
These poachers need to be tortured and beaten to death.
why?
Jenny=wtf
Jenny - You're an idiot!
no really why?
Because the wanton slaughter of intelligent, endangered creatures for profit, and the manner in which they were killed are both horrific crimes against reason, decency, humanity, and nature. The poachers need to be made to pay for those crimes and the culling of the last of these creatures needs to be prevented.
That's why, Jenny. Perhaps you would like to respond with the answer to "Why not?" instead of what I predict will be some incoherent quip about liberals or something?
ok but why?
Holy @!$%#, I thought you were 12, but now you remind me of my 3 year old niece! "Why? Why? Why?"
Why not, Jenny? Why not? Answer that or take your nap time - your choice. Do you have what it takes to have a conversation and delineate your opinions in a coherent way, or are you a 3 year old? Defend yourself.
why?
Don't let Jenny fool you.
Jenny is a dude so do not picture a woman. He's a gay dude that hates women and is working at other people to hate women.
Just ignore him as tough as it may be and it will go away...
@Creek Dog
A gay dude that hates women? Thats as mythical as 'The White Elephant'...But I agree Jenny is Troll. Ignore....
poachers are part of the problems, the other part are the buyers and autorithies corrupt what aloud to crose this blood tusks from Africa, is same like the narcotrafic: "Crimen Organizado" and because I know the power of corrupcion and bribe I don't trust 100 % in the "Rangers" can be acomplice in that crime...
Liberals all of a sudden want guns used on people...shocking isn't it?
yah, and we might even want cops to have them too to shoot bad guys. i guess it is shocking if you follow the talking heads
StuperBrain, it is those with the same uncompassionate, vacuous and obtuse mindsets, like yourself on any subject matter, who would otherwise be drawn towards natural de-selection, like lemmings.
Troll...bring something useful to a conversation for once.
The idea that only liberals want gun control (and that gun control means no guns at all) is ignorant and small minded. Here's an idea, think for yourself. Use some brain cells to listen to all parts of the argument and not just the selected few that warrant you to fall back on the asinine rhetoric thats being regurgitated by "conservatives"
Yes we like guns. The only good fascist is a dead one.
you ever notice how these peace loving liberals tend to be the most vitriolic? always amusing.
I am not peace loving. When our freedom is in the balance and being taken away by the corporatists and american fascist, I don't believe in peace at all. The founders were liberals of their time and they weren't so peacefull
Wow, just wow. We witness the wholesale slaughter of an endangered and majestic animal and all the idiots have to say is that they are amazed that liberals can be angry?!
First of all, why does being horrified at the slaughter of a dozen elephants in a family group make one a liberal? Should we believe therefore that true conservatives would be pleased with this horror?
And second, since when are liberals peaceful. Just because they don't see the value in bombing civilians, fear mongering, and nation building, why does that make them peaceful? You're just as likely to get your ass kicked by a liberal as a conservative - you just have to push the right buttons. In this case that button is the useless slaughter of a family of elephants (among the last of their kind) to satisfy the trade in snake oils in red-neck Chinese villages and the ivory trade for the nouveau riche. I guess that just means that liberals tend to sanctify life over death. I can't believe anyone would actually oppose that - even anonymously on the internet!
i have to be anonymous because in reality i'm BATMA-- OOPS! Sorry! Nevermind.
That's it? That's your comeback? Are you 12 years old? Why are you here? Have you got anything deeper than that to say or can we all just agree that even you recognize the dead end that you are traveling down with your obtuse and vacuous opinions?
i think maybe we ought to take this jenny wawa, pack up her ignorance and give her a tour of tsavo... obviously not an animal lover... LOL... or maybe she is chinese...
ya im gon deeper n ur mahm ohh
and yes i am chinese. and yuo'll buy my products and like it, you filthy american baboon.
pseudo intellectual?... obviously nothing else to do with your life...
come on jenno or was that your attempt at chinese...LMAO
me n u both bro
i got a cup of noodles right here. i couldn't be more chinese.
I think there needs to be an age restriction on Newsvine. You'll notice Jenny only replies to comments where she can act like an idiot instead of the ones that require thought and debate, and that are pertinent to the story. Clearly she isn't older than 12.
gaga goo goo
Maybe this is Jenny's only social outlet and prevents her from offing herself and ending what must be a dull and boring life....
gaga goo goo
Don't let Jenny fool you.
Jenny is a dude so do not picture a woman. He's a gay dude that hates women and is working at other people to hate women.
Just ignore him as tough as it may be and it will go away...
A guy? Really? Well, he certainly has the Can't Understand Normal Thinking act down pat.
Maybe his boyfriend beat it into him.
They really have to start killing the poachers, if only to serve as a deterrent to other would-be poachers. If they get caught with the tusks put them down right there. And there are mercenaries that would gladly hunt these fiends for the right price.
mot onl;y put them down... but hack off their faces in the process...
Need to Put a Bounty on Poachers! Then YOU'D Have a BLOODY POACHER ATTACK!
25million bounty on Osama Bin laden didn't help.
They need gun control in Kenya.
Here are some of the laws.
In Kenya, civilians are not allowed to possess automatic and semi-automatic self-loading military assault rifles of 7.62mm or 5.56mm calibre, or of any other calibre from time to time specified by the Minister38 39 40 28 25
Compare
Regulation of Automatic Assault Weapons
In Kenya, private possession of fully automatic weapons is prohibited38 39
Compare
Regulation of Semiautomatic Assault Weapons
In Kenya, private possession of semi-automatic assault weapons is prohibited38 39
Compare
Regulation of Handguns
In Kenya, private possession of handguns (pistols and revolvers) is permitted under licence38 39
What is your friggin' point? Criminals will get whatever they need to do what they want.
What's with all the numbers 38 39 ?
Also, I agree with Numb3rTech above, who managed to get across his point without using a bunch of weird numbers 38 39 54 72 LOL
UDunnoBro 3839 is the license # ie the bill/law code... u dunno? bro? lol
Rose, then they would all be different. Also this is a government we're talking about here, what government simply identifies anything? It would be something more like A7823-7.32.1, lol!
Don't forget that hunting is completely banned in Kenya. Has been since the '70s. Consider also that other African countries that do allow hunting use the fees collected from that hunting to fund their counterpoaching efforts. Now connect the dots.
Forget gun control. There is a much more pressing issue on our planet, an that is our rampant breeding. We'll kill off the animals, and then ourselves, if we don't do something major about our population. I am sick and tired of people looking their noses down at those of us who voice the need of birth control, and people taking responsibility for what they are doing to our planet, every time they decide to have more than 2 kids. It's a disgrace. You can't love your kids, and condemn them to have to watch their grandchildren, march into battle over basic food and water. With climate change, crops are going to continue to do poorly, and people will starve, and die, because a bunch of self centered, ego maniacs decided to have more kids than they should, because they "wanted to". It's time to stop thinking about what YOU WANT, and start thinking about what WE NEED.
Quote " Demand comes from the growing middle class in China, where ground tusk is said to have medicinal value, and ivory is still desirable in jewellery and home decorations "
@!$%# you China !!
What can the ordinary person do to help end this sad and criminal activity? Most people who comment here will likely be disturbed by these actions and wish that this type of behavior would never happen again, but we need something more meaningful than just angry words. We need action plans. Unfortunately, I do not know what to do myself, but I am willing to send money to charaties and organizations than are working to put an end to this. Let's all get behind a campaign that helps stop poaching and protects the animals on this planet. We also need to look at the root cause of the consumer demand and stop that. Governments must do more to protect the wildlife.
Start by trying not to buy ... Made in China ... if they don't have the means they won't be able to buy the extras.
That's exactly true Emmy. We are disgusted by things like this, and the rape and murder of the woman in India, but at the same time we don't think twice about buying from Walmart or Home Depot, where the majority of their products come from China and/or India. Buying their products supports the cultures that produce these situations.
THINK when you shop of where the products are coming from.
Support American jobs.
BUY AMERICAN.
Horrible, very sad. I often wonder about how to stop this. Would removing the tusks of Elephants and Rhino's professionally so they are not slaughtered help. I know they would have to adjust to living without them, but id rather this then them being killed and eventually extinct.
Cut off their right arm, left leg, take out one eye and castrate them, then put them where hyenas or wild dogs can get to them. They don't wait for them to die before eating them.
I agree that China is a cancer.
Maybe we should shoot the poachers, then pull their teeth and sell them on the black market?
I wish that there was some way that Wildlife groups could go in and tranquilize the elephants and take their tusks. Perhaps tuskless they have a better chance of surviving. Why they would kill baby elephants is another story.
Paul: Ivory goes through Asia to the USA, Canada, Europe. It is the collectors of Ivory everywhere in this world that is making the demand, not just China. Killing any animal solely for tusks or pelt is insane but until we really crack down or do something proactive to prevent it, it will continue.
Elephants use their tusks to protect themselves from other wildlife. Why would you want to make it easier for other animals to kill elephants?
I was hoping they were at the top of the food chain in Africa due to their size. My ignorance on the subject. Thanks for pointing it out.
Most are protected and on elephant reserves...the only threat is from the poachers. Many reserves in Africa are removing the tusks as soon as the elephants mature enough. Most atrocities like this occur on public lands, so why not move the majority of them to the reserves to be with other elephants and be protected? If they are killing one every single day, something has to be done!
Googled it;
Elephants use their tusks for a variety of tasks. Principally, they are formidable weapons against potential predators like the tiger (although tigers will only ever attack young or juvenile elephants) or in battle against other elephants.
They are also used to aid foraging, digging, stripping bark and moving things out of the way; trained logging elephants are capable of lifting large logs with their tusks. There is also a display element to tusks and they can attract the interest of females.
Evidence suggests that elephants normally prefer one tusk over the other, similar to being left or right handed in humans. The preferred tusk is known as the master tusk
Elephants use their tusks in feeding less than combat. They protect themselves from other wildlife with their size. Tusks are teeth, not horns.
In feeding, they smack the coarse fodder torn from the ground against their right or left tusk (like humans, elephants are right or left dominant) to dislodge dirt and dust matter before putting it into their mouth. Tusks are also helpful in digging up tubers and pushing down trees.
"Demand comes from the growing middle class in China, where ground tusk is said to have medicinal value, and ivory is still desirable in jewellery and home decorations."
Why does "the growing middle class in China" think it is perfectly acceptable to kill beautiful innocent animals like this just so they can have some wacko concoction, jewelry, and home decorations? What is wrong with these people? Do they think these ivory products just fall from the sky or something? Wow.
It wasn't that long ago that America's middle class was just as ignorant as to the origin of its products.
We used to buy ivory by the ton, fur coats were a symbol of high fashion and wealth (no self respecting woman would be caught dead without one!), We nearly made wolves extinct in North America, as well as bears, beavers, bison, and cougars. We used to buy conflict diamonds without regards to the ramifications to the people who mined them. We kill millions of sharks a year - many just for fun! There was a time when even Americans bought all manner of concoctions made from wild animals with supposed health benefits. We used to throw away everything - recycling was a myth and something no self respecting American would even consider. The list is endless. These things only changed through government action. Conservation groups, the FDA, and good old fashioned awareness. China needs to start becoming responsible like the rest of the world at least tries to be. These issues need to be addressed every time we discuss anything with China.
I, for one, sure miss condor egg omelettes.
Why does "the growing middle class in China" think it is perfectly acceptable to kill beautiful innocent animals like this just so they can have some wacko concoction, jewelry, and home decorations? What is wrong with these people? Do they think these ivory products just fall from the sky or something? Wow. - hockeymom1111
I recognize the heinous nature of this crime, but as a Chinese American, I find it equally abhorrent that you can label someone else's culture as "wacko" and wrong. I'm sure other nations scoff at American gas guzzling and other natural resource waste. No one thinks consumer products fall from the sky, but if they have the money, let it be on their conscience and leave it at that.
I imagine someone with a screen name of hockeymom has lots of wacky kids' art as home decorations and macaroni jewelry. Don't you think other people might consider that useless??
Why don't you try to start a pro-environment, pro-wild animal movement in China?
The Chinese have to learn that the world's wild animals can not be butchered for their body parts, or there will be none left.
Go to your nearest walmart and shop as usual. As you checkout, check each item to ensure it is not made in china, if it is, leave the item at the checkout register for employees to restock. let management know that you are not enbargoing all products made in china till demand for tusks stop.
If you have any unused/new products recently purchased at walmart and made in china; simply return the items to walmart for a refund. let management know that you are not embargoing all products made in china till demand for tusks stop.
send walmart an email telling them your position.
Why stop at Walmart? Let's do the same thing at Target, Kohls, Macys, Saks Fifth Avenue and all the other stores that buy from china. Walmart and Sam's club have started stocking and selling several products that are made in USA. Let's not forget the food network, they sell all kinds of crap from china. Until china joins the human race, they will not stop buying ivory from these poachers. It will take solidarity from the rest of the world.
So you will leave walmart with nothing? Just saying. USA needs to start being patriotic and buying American first. Unions have preached it, but liberals don't follow through at all. Conservatives have preached it, then abandoned it because of the ultra-right. The intelligent thinking middle have to take over again.
The orient has, since their departure from traditional Buddhism, been all about killing and slaying as many people and animals as they can and covering it up by lying or pointing the finger elsewhere.
but i like those little packs of glitter stickers? can i at least buy those?
I agree but its easier said than done. Many products (maininly food) is grown/caught/ made in China but its sent to the USA/Canada/Europe for processing and by many laws (I can only speak on Canada really) they can label the product "Made in Canada" because a percentage of the processing was done here. A good example of this is that there is a brand of fishsticks (I think Highlander) that are labeled 'Made in Canada' and on the east coast (where there have been fishing communities for centuries) there is a big plant that supposedly makes them. It turns out that the fish is caught and frozen in China then shipped back here to be battered and boxed up...but its proudly Canadian? Fun Fact: China is the biggest exporter of fruits and vegetables in the world....What exactly are we eating?
I think the easiest first step for everyone is to stop shopping at dollar stores. How is it possible for the prices to be so cheap? Think about it, from the $1 they have to pay for the materials to make the item, overhead at the plant, pay the guy that makes it, pay the guy that loads it on the truck (and for the gas), pay the guy that unload it you the ship, pay the guy to ship it across the ocean (and pay for the fuel), pay the guy to unload it, pay the guy to bring it to the store (and pay for gas), pay the guy to stock the shelves, pay for overhead of the store, and pay for the cashier....and make a profit. How is this possible? Why is this possible? Now look at how many stores with regular valid prices suffer because we'd rather get things at ridiculously low prices. We need to start demanding that things be build on our soil and not complain when we have to pay a little bit more because min wage here is more than min wage in China
certainly looks like a lot of words, rose.
@Tracy why does it always have to be a liberal/conservative thing? Its like youve been brainwashed to think that there is no middle ground. I hate to break it too you but its the liberal/ middle ground that are the most proactive when it comes to causes. Its not so much about buy American as it is buy from a place that respects their workers. If China paid their workers a fair wage items bought marked "Made in China" wouldnt cost so little. Higher prices on the shelves here mean manufactures are less tempted to ship jobs over seas were they pay people pennies for a days work. Less jobs shipped over seas mean more jobs here. Its not 'Buy America/ Canada" (although that is great when we can..I know I always do when I have an option) it should be "Buy Fair Trade"
Don't buy China is an impossible dream. Have you ever really looked, everything is made in China. Even the few things made in America are made by Chinese firms! The Chinese are taking over everything like a shrewd '80's businessman.
Case in point:
They didn't have the technological know-how to build thin film photovoltaics so they merely subsidized the hell out of older style silicone manufacturers in China. This flooded the market with artificially cheaper, albeit older style, solar panels, which drove half of the nascent thin film industry into bankruptcy in the USA (Solyndra among them). Now the Chinese are coming here to buy up what remains of the butchered industry at bargain prices. That is what they do - they drive their competition into bankruptcy with illegal trade practices and then buy them out. God forbid they actually invent something themselves!
Jenny - wtf girl?! "A lot of words"?! Yes, complex and well thought out opinions tend to have more words than snarky, useless, political bitching aimed at others, like what you have given us so far. Why don't you lay out the justifications of your opinions for us, or are you afraid to think that hard to justify your baseless arrogance?
Rose Colored Glasses
@Rose, you have to relize that MSNBC is exclusively liberal and favor that party. @Tracy is probaly a full fledged liberal. MSNBC is a very biased organization. These fols always have to troll and bring up politics all of the time. H3ll, if there was an article about some cute puppies they would bring up politics.
I totally agree with your comment back to @Tracy!
@ rose and @NJO,
Sorry to disappoint but you are incorrect about my political connections. Click on my info and follow my comment threads, I believe you will find where my politics truly lies. I would have appreciated that before you tossed out false accusations.
You did not comprehend what I said. I stated that the ultra everything needs to stay out of it and I absolutely have stated for a fact that the intelligent thinking middle folks (conservative, liberal, etc) need to stand up for ourselves and our continent/countries.
Radagast, check out MadeinUSA.com. They will give you names of AMERICAN Manufacturers of American products.
My company is American owned and we manufacture right here in the USA. While it can be difficult to find USA made components for the merchandise we produce, we try our best to use American Made when available. There are products out there. It just takes a bit of effort to find them.
I am not Radagast, but thanks for the infor Janine!
@Tracy
False accusations? I didnt say you murdered someone. Accusation makes it seem as though to say being conservative is a bad thing. There is nothing wrong with favoring one view over another. Its wrong when you harm/judge others because of it.
Anyways, Im glad to hear that you are "intelligent thinking middle folks". I think that I missed that part because my eye zeroed in on the use of the term "The Orient". Sorry, to me it seemed like an old fashioned way of referring to Asia and it kinda set the tone for how I interpreted what you were trying to say.
I agree.
I live the "simple life".... and I urge others to as well.
Think about it this way----less clutter.
You need one pair of shoes, 3 pants, and 3 shirts, and a week's worth of undies. That is it.
Who needs all the gizmos, tech toys, etc.
Boycott China made goods, until they shape up.
forbide and embargo all U.S. bacon sales to china till demand for elephant tusks stop.
May God forgive us all for such disrespect to His creations and Him.
careful, this is a liberal bastion.
Why would a liberal disagree with that sentiment? Not all liberals are atheists and many atheists are quite conservative. But in either case an atheist is smart and respectful enough to recognize the thoughtfulness and goodness of me31's comment and the nature in which it was made.
me31, I agree wholeheartedly.
My wish is that we can have a compassionate conversation about the slaughter of innocent animals and what society can do to prevent it without some person bringing up gun control. Gun control has no place in this conversation. I would love to have Model70's comment either collapsed or removed entirely. This is not about gun control. My opinion. Even if posted in humor, there is nothing humorous about the slaughter of animals.
I hope the Kenya authorities find those responsible for this, and to put it bluntly, kill them. Those who did this deserve the same fate as the elephants.
Probably Barrys cousins. They don't mind killing if it furthers their agenda.
Wow, way out of line, dude - for at least several reasons.
Why out of line,Barry Insane Odumba$$ is from Kenya. We all will fine out soon. Why did he hide all his records for 4 million dollars then. He's hiding something very scary. Film at 11.
Holy @!$%# birthers are still alive!!
Seriously Rich, provide one shred of evidence that anything upon which your arguments are predicated is in the slightest bit true. You can't and that's why no one listens to birthers. I mean come on, college transcripts cannot just be requested by anyone - that goes for every student in the country! $4 mill? - why not a cool billion?! Let's make this conspiracy really fly!
Please find these barbarians and exterminate them.
China is the scourge of the planet.
Douglas MacArthur was right. He should have been President.
We should have nuked their sorry behinds in 1947.
USA! USA! USA!
Jenny, don't be too much of a cheerleader, our forefathers did the same thing to the Bison and Native Americans. It all comes back to that Golden Rule that so many of those who embrace religion don't actually follow, Do unto others.....
Our desire to kill everyone and everything who disagrees with us is truly disturbing.
I hate religious people too!
Gee you are such a ray of sunshine. Maybe we should ship Jenny over there and she can scare all the poachers with her "attitude" and "hate".
jenny does seem to be a bit of a troll/stupid ass.
The world would be very different today if Truman allowed the bomb to be dropped on China. I don't think anyone of us could imagine it would be better.
"jenny does seem to be a bit of a troll/stupid ass."
A bit?
It is a sad day and as we can see, most of what mankind is capable of is simply destruction. We destroy and kill everything we come into contact with and eradicate at every opportunity. Why would we expect any feelings of remorse from the poachers when we slaughter each other with reckless abandon and no pang of conscience what so ever?
Ultimately there will be no more Elephants, Polar Bears, Lions, Tigers, Rhinos, Apes, Whales......if Man has anything to do with it. There are people out there who dedicate their lives and resources to the effort of saving the majestic creatures above and many more but it is not enough to counter the cruelty and greed that inherently seems to permeate our planet. All I have to say is to make sure you and all your children take note to the rampant destruction that we encourage with the hope that somehow, someway someone will change their way of thinking and alter our future actions. It will be way too late for many species, but hopefully some will be spared. The poachers deserve the same fate as their prey, but since we are so fervent to believe that all human life is precious and more valuable than everything else they would likely just be incarcerated for mere months instead of the justice that they truly deserve.
@Chris - excellent post.
And what many fail to recognize is that as we humans continue, through habitat destruction, pollution, climate change, over fishing & hunting and other destructive behaviors like this poaching, to decimate other species on this planet and thereby impact the health of the ecosystem we ALL live in, we too, as the species at the top, will have problems surviving. Some of the species in danger of elimination are what scientists refer to as indicator species. While you may disagree about the majesty of such creatures as elephants, lions, tigers, etc., and their right to exist (which they have), just remember that humans too are animals and are impacted by what we might consider minor (but in reality are radical) changes to this planet on which we live.
I wonder about those who would so violently slaughter other living creatures.
Hey I want to go there and cut the ears and other body parts of the poachers and have them eatin by wild animals They the poachers are not human . They are bacteria that should be eliminated . When poeple kill animals in the food chain finally the animal to die will be human all of us wake up human pigs
Another reason we should tell China to Go To Hell , their government is not concerned with any Life.
It's called a COMMUNISTIC SOCIETY!!! No matter how anyone whitewashes it, it's still COMMUNISM! Over 58,000 Americans died in vietnam fighting communism and now we seem to fully support both china and vietnam governments. Such a shame.
John, you must be in your 80s. China is not communist. They have private property rights and private capital markets. They are a dictatorship with heavy state ownership of enterprises, but to call them communist is a joke.
That's how it goes John. If you get in a war with the US you end up getting a lot from us later. Like Japan, Germany etc. But the idea is....we get in a war and want them to change and be our friends right? Why would you want it the same as it was before after the war? That would be a waste.