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Subscribe to RSSA pair of adult identical twins in Belgium have been legally killed at their request, the men's doctor told journalists.
The 45-years-old men, who were born deaf, spent their lives side-by-side — growing up together and then, as adults, sharing an apartment and working as cobblers together, according to Belgian media reports.
The men’s names have not been released but photographs of the identical twins from the Antwerp region have been made available to some media outlets.
Their doctor, David Dufour, told Belgium’s RTL Television over the weekend that the two men had been losing their eyesight for several years and soon would have been completely blind. The prospect of being blind as well as deaf was unbearable to them, he said.
"They were fully aware of their decision," Dufour said.
After winning approval from the necessary authorities, the two men received lethal injections at a Belgian hospital in December.
Dufour described their last moments: "They had a last cup of coffee and everything was fine. They said goodbye to their parents and brother and all was serene. They waved — and that was that."
Under a 2002 law, Belgians are allowed to end their own lives if a doctor judges an individual has made his or her wishes clear and is suffering unbearable pain.
The case of the twins was unusual because the two men were not approaching the end of their natural lives nor were they terminally ill.
But Jacqueline Herremans, a member of the Belgian Commission of Euthanasia, told RTL that they did meet the legal requirements as their suffering was grave and incurable. When they became blind as well as deaf, he said, they would not have been able to lead autonomous lives, and that with only a sense of touch they had no prospects of a future.
She acknowledged this was an exceptional case.
"Evidently they had a particular destiny. They were two human beings who have lived together, grown up together, worked together and wanted to die together. Their suffering may not have been physical, but there was psychological suffering," she said.
In 2010 and 2011, a total of 2,086 people died by euthanasia in Belgium, according to the country’s Euthanasia Commission.
Belgium is now looking at introducing a legal amendment that would allow children and those with dementia the option of seeking permission to die. If passed later this year, the option of euthanasia will be extended to minors affected by an incurable illness, or suffering that cannot be alleviated.
Related stories:
Netherlands dispatches mobile euthanasia units
Dutch riled at Santorum's euthanasia comments
Leave a Comment:
That is a copout! Remember Helen Keller!
I too thought of Keller while reading this. Different circumstances of course. She grew up from a young age without hearing or sight, which is different than losing one's sight after a lifetime of relying on it. I cannot judge what these two men chose, nor can I say for sure I'd have chosen any differently. But I'm sure others will presume to judge them in their sad situation. Lucky for them their nation allows them the legal choice.
When you are faced with the same situation, you are entitled to anopinion on whether this was copout or not.
She is not forgotten.
For heavens sake, it was their choice. If they were in the U.S., they'd have to commit suicide and find some way to do it that wasn't messed up.
In Massachusetts, physician-assisted suicide was voted "no" on a referendum by a small margin, and medical marijuana was voted yes. Apparently if I'm dying of pancreatic cancer, no one will help me commit suicide, but I'll be allowed to get high.
No, it's not a cop-out, it's an end of life/quality of life decision and I applaud the Belgian government for creating a legal and humane way to access this option for the terminally ill or those incapacitated beyond their ability to endure.
Anyone hell bent on suicide does not need the "assistance" of a physician.
The individual should have a choice when it comes to living in a torturous existence.
Rummy Tub, you are right. I always wondered why anyone who wanted to die, had to have assistance from a doctor.
Do not judge other people who have to live in situations that you do not understand. It doesn't matter if it is loss of vision, loss of mobility or unrelenting pain.... if there is NO REMEDY for a person's condition they SHOULD have the right to die peacefully. The government has no qualms about allowing killing the unborn, the brain impaired and criminals.... WHY shouldn't law abiding citizens be allowed assisted suicide?
I understand Pain is difficult to understand and I am not the judge, but I do believe that God will be the judge and jury for all in this category we call suicide. Life is tough and those decisions need a lot of prayer and I pray that this world will get back on its hands and knees and search the truth.
At least there are sane countries in the world where you can end your life with dignity legally.
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Apparently these boys never heard the phrase "Adapt and Overcome". They took the cowards' way out.
They would if they're physically incapable (or had physical disabilities that would make it unlikely commit suicide successfully) as the condition of these men was heading.
This is a sad story. I only wish that in the US they were as understanding of personal choices like these and people weren't hell bent on impossing their personal views on another's existence.
@CoRavensFan
Apparently you never heard the phrase "live your life, not mine (or that of others)".
It's not a cop-out. EVERYBODY eventually dies. That's a fate no-one escapes. It's not a choice between death and immortality. It's a choice in WHEN and HOW to die, and everybody's entitled to making that decision for themselves. For some, choosing the time and manner of their passing is the only voluntary choice they have left. We should stop being so haughty and judgmental. I admire these European countries that have given their people this option without stigma.
Sees thru gloss is being grossly judgmental. He/she should consider the choice that faced these two brothers. A cop out, from what? Life being deaf and blind with a partner who is also deaf and blind. They were fortunate they lived in a compassionate country which allows a choice of dignified death over a life of misery. In the U. S. they would have been forced, at best to endure incarceration in an institution, or begging in the streets. Either way they would be existing at the mercy of the meanest elements of our society. May they rest in peace
I like how people who probably have both their sight and hearing area criticizing their decision. Frankly, I'd want the same outcome if that were me. Adapt and overcome? To do what. Live a life where you can't do anything? They at least had a job and were working having only been deaf. But now, they can't work. They won't be able to really do anything. They would end up putting a huge burden on familiar members to pretty much take care of them in every aspect of their lives. No thanks. I wouldn't think twice about not wanting to live if I was going to lose both my sight and my hearing. You're pretty much reduced to sitting in a chair or lying in a bed for the rest of your life. I'd like to see what kind of enjoyable life you people would have.
As far as questioning why they need help doing so. Why not? It's a fool proof way that's not going to cause any pain. They know your wishes, and it ends peacefully. Would you rather try and blow your brains out? What if you fail. Maybe try and hang or suffocate yourself. A lot of other means could lead to failure or suffering. If it's legal for to do so, why not? We usually give inmates a lethal injection for committing terrible crimes, why should someone else have to suffer through more traumatizing means.
I mean, I'd agree that killing yourself over personal issues or something can be a cop out because you can at least argue that whatever they're going through could be temporary. There is no overcoming being blind and deaf. That's it. They're going to suffer through that forever.
Let me feel how you feel about living after a year of being both deaf and blind - you dumb pos.
Helen Keller's affliction began when she was an infant. It's biologically and psychologically easier to assimilate when such an affliction is all that's known. It's also easy to judge the unhealthy when you're healthy.
Yes because God clearly thought that bringing them into this world deaf wasn't bad enough. So he had to go on and take away their sight as well.
Whatever their reason for doing this, it was still their choice. Leave it alone.
@RummyTub, Having the assistance of a doctor is an avenue that's available to them. They probably look at people who commit suicide here in the US and wonder why we don't ask a doctor to assist.
The last year's of the life of my mother were horrific. She wanted to die but because of the laws here I could do nothing to assist. I have heard of so many in similar situations. The U.S. should consider these needs for euthanasia.
The only way to accept your assessment of a "cop-out" as being even remotely worth of some attention is if you yourself are deaf and blind.
Should a transit riding wheelchair cripple be allowed to choose euthanasia because (s)he thinks that they "look funny"?
Welcome to European Health Care.
Death Panels save money.
Hitler did the same thing.
Created a socialized HealthCare system. Then when it was to expensive he started killing long term care patients. Then Handicaps. Then Bankers.
Absolutely very hard story to read.. no question in my mind that these two individuals made a CHOICE that was right for them, and we have no right as americans to judge them for it.
MC Gusto
I'd think the republicans in this country would support the same thing...
****
Remember in America, if you can't afford an attorney, one will be provided for you. If you can't afford health care or a doctor, to bad.
Who knows what runs through a persons mind when something like this happens. I can't blame them for this choice. Its easy to say buck up and get over it when your not in that position. Who are any of you to talk? Its not your choice. Who knows what its like for them? Who of you know whats best for the people involved? Till you live in their shoes and understand their thoughts. Just keep your opinions to your self.
B.C. Survivor, I can appreciate what you and your mother went through. A couple of years before my mother passed away her doctor told her that her kidneys were beginning to fail and that eventually she would be on dialysis. My mother had other medical concerns and dialysis for her would mean a nursing home. She said no way. I told her "You don't have a choice." She looked right at me and said "YESS I DO".
And she did. In the end when dialysis was all that would have kept her alive, I as her medical proxy refused it. She went the way she wanted.
What makes me most upset are some of the ignorant comments, like the one by MC Gusto, on this subject. We have the right to choose in many areas, but here in the States, we have few things that we are allowed a choice for. In Europe, at least in a few countries, you have a choice, when conditions are right, to end your life in a dignified manner. That choice is beautiful!
We all have the choice. Whether or not we have the will to live or the will to die is unique to all of us. I always thought Jack Kevorkian was a minion of the devil and an angel of death for those who did not have the guts to murder themselves. The Netherlands consider it humane and rightly so. Assisted suicide clears up all legal matters both criminal as well as personal and takes the blame out of the game for the survivors. It should be legal here. Their new contemplated law will give their governments a drop in the deficits. killing kids and the mentally challenged using forged documents of consent or consents given through deceptions should greatly reduce their medical expenses.
Dr. Zeke Emanuel , (Rham Never let a Crisis Go to Waste Emanuel's brother) Formulated " The Complete Lives System" and is or was on P.0bama's Medical Advisory Board.....Complete Lives is the basis for ObamaCare's Medical Review Board....The Unelected Unaccountable Unknowable group has been writing the "regulations" since before ObamaCare was even passed. Their work continues in the dark bowels of HHS.
They are regulating when the cost outweighs the benefit and you are left to "let Nature Euthanize" you, by withholding any additional treatment...Remember it was Obama that said, " Sometimes it's just better to give the Pain Pill"....Death Panels for all (Except Congress, they always exempt themselves)...
I'm a Christian, and if push comes to shove, I would like to have this option. Let me make the decision and then let God and I sort it out. If someone has a problem with it (assisted), I'll do it myself. Though I don't think I'll ever get to that point, it could happen, and I would not mind having this option to consider. Kevorkian was too enthusiastic, and in some cases went too far, but I didn't completely disagree with his premise.
MC Gusto Comment collapsed by the community
Clearly you have no clue what a so-called "death panel" is but you're bitching about it nonetheless. Why am I not surprised?
Oregon has the Death with Dignity Act. I'm not sure if any other states have an act similar to this. I know if I ever become terminally ill, I'll be moving to Oregon.
Oregon’s Death with Dignity Act (DWDA), enacted in late 1997, allows terminally‐ill adult Oregonians to obtain and use prescriptions from their physicians for self‐administered, lethal doses of medications. The Oregon Public Health Division is required by the Act to collect information on compliance and to issue an annual report. The key findings from 2011 are listed below. The number of people for whom DWDA prescriptions were written (DWDA prescription recipients) and deaths that occurred as a result of ingesting prescribed DWDA medications (DWDA deaths) reported in this summary are based on paperwork and death certificates received by the Oregon Public Health Division as of February 29, 2012.For more detail, please view the figures and tables on our web site at: public.health.oregon.gov/ProviderPartnerResources/EvaluationResearch/DeathwithDignityAct/Pages/ar‐index.aspx.
@ Robert-3739553
1. Point out chapter and verse where your deity condemns suicide. Use whatever holy book you ascribe to.
2. If you're a Christian, you may want to ask yourself if prayer could have healed these men. You'll say 'yes', then I'll point you to... well, EVERY statistic on prayer there is.
Don't bring your imaginary friend into this conversation. These two men 'were' given more than they could bear, contrary to yet another verse in your holy book. I dare not imagine for myself what I might do. I might bear it out... I might not. Perhaps they could have endured paralysis, while others cannot.
Unlike the moral codes in your book of horrors, 'reality' has a moral standard that can be flexible, given the circumstances of the humans in question - as does ANY sane, rational, and ethical legal system.
their souls did not die just the body that holds them...I see religious people all the time making a scene about death like they say their is a soul but act like their isnt...I find it hard to get upset on wakes when I know their is no end to the life cycle..but it was sad to read they had a cup of coffee before they went...I just wished the quality of their life could have been alot better...god speed you 2....
CoRavensFan Comment collapsed by the community
Apparently these boys never heard the phrase "Adapt and Overcome". They took the cowards' way out.
"Really" is it so hard to grasp the concept that they worked and loved life as they saw it and choose not to live without those things or burden anyone....
What wasn't reported in the press is they really wanted to die so they didn't have to listen to A-hole comments.
Jon (buncha numbers)... if you don't believe in God, that's good for you... but why besmerch those that do? If you can't find faith, don't get down on people that do... just makes you small.
God is there for those that believe, and is there for those that don't. Do you think I care if you don't believe in God? That's up to you... but I won't call you names or try to degredate your beliefs...
hitler didn't give any "choice" in the matter , did he?
remember the shouts of "let them die!" at the republican presidential nomination convention when health care for the poor was mentioned?
the "death panels" are a device of the far right, and always have been
Belgium is now looking at introducing a legal amendment that would allow children and those with dementia the option of seeking permission to die.
------------------
One thing all of you are over looking is this. It starts with the terminally ill, pain and suffering. Now, you have an "exceptional" case that doesn't involve the terminally ill. Next, they want to allow "children and those with dementia" to seek permission to kill themselves. You are on a very slippery slope. Where does it end? Hey, honey, I had a bad day today, think I'll head over to the local assist parlor."
I am not a religous person but I was brought up to believe suicide was wrong and like it or not that is what this is. Considering the history of Europe I'm somewhat surprised this has the support it does.
Any person has right to live. Why should we ban the right to die? Why do we think that we have any authority to decide for others, whether they should live and suffer, or die and escape the pain?
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The slippery slope arguement is always weak, Wolf. The involvement of citizens keeps things working according to plan. It is only when the citizens ignore the way policies are implemented that problems occur. Exceptions do occur, and a compassionate and rational board will consider all the implications of the decision. You have a right to think assisted suicide is wrong. I think it is a logical, unselfish life choice. I plan to make that choice when the time comes.
Comments like this always disgust me.. People who believe in a GOD also believe that GOD made this world.. Well maybe your retarded GOD should have made a better world where people don't needlessly suffer.. Judging someone because they suffer in a world you supposedly made to where unimaginable suffering takes place is utterly retarded. And to say the world should get on it's hands and knees and pray just shows how psychologically F---ed up that sort of logic is.. People that make such statements, or even statements about being selfish have literally not a clue as to what it is like to really suffer.. It's utter ignorance that makes woeful ignorance seem less nauseating.. It reminds me of this video where the preacher hasn't a clue in regards to reality, and how it really demonstrates the sheer and utter ignorance of religion:
And these people don't need some Ego Centric Genocidal Narcissistic maniac judging them, or anyone for that matter to judge their suffering as some sort of sin ect.. I personally applaud Belgium's law to allow those who are suffering a means to go in peace.. A law that recognizes that we ought to treat our fellow human beings, and family members with the same amount of compassion and humanity we do in regards to our suffering pets.
People need to realize there is no cure for certain things, or often no means to sufficiently address the suffering of millions of people around the world. What is selfish is expecting someone to suffer so you can feel better about not wanting to let them go, or so you can espouse and hold on to some ass backwards religious ideology that pretends to think it has any clue regarding morality.
NOW THAT IS BY DEFINITION SELFISH!
I find it amusing that so many people are so willing to judge others, when they haven't a clue what they are judging. The fact is that being without sight or without hearing can be a very lonely existence. Being without both is..... haven't been there yet. But, it was only a couple of months ago that the news media talked about a sensory deprivation room that someone, or some company had built. They said that the longest someone had been able to stay in there was 45 minutes. 45 MINUTES! We're talking about a room that had no light and did such a good job with sound that someone in there couldn't hear anything.
Sure, people mention Helen Keller. But, no one really understands what she went through. She was very young when she lost her hearing and vision. She also had someone very willing to teach her. And it wasn't easy.
But, these two grew up together, lived together and knew they were losing their ability to communicate with each other. Can anyone really blame them for their choice? Would you really be willing to choose solitary confinement without vision or sound? Heck, they say prisoners in solitary confinement not infrequently go insane. And they can hear and see. Bottom line: Haven't been there. Don't want to go there. Wouldn't want to face the choices they faced. Thus, I really can't say I'd choose any different.
People judging these two aren't really living up to Christianity as I see it. I think it's a mistake to judge anyone else whether you agree with their decision or not. You can say it's a shame, but to actually judge them for it; not very Christian.
People wondering why God might do this to them. Maybe it's only to raise awareness. All I can say is that it sounds like they've got serious balls. I personally have a hard time imagining being in a situation like that. If it were me, and there were no real pain involved, I'd hope I'd find some way to deal with the outside world... but I have no idea what it would be like so far be it from me to tell them otherwise.
The government should stay out of all your personal decisions! ( except of course when it involves your girly-bits or when it involves ending a life that is permanently too painful to endure.)
seesthrough: What 'gloss', exactly, is it that you 'see through'? Who are you to judge what others do with their lives, or deaths? Should I repeat that last sentence? You don't like their choice, so sincerely believe they should follow yours? Holy cow. Google 'critical thinking'. Better yet, Google 'respect'.
in a few years this will be a common thing under obamo health care. the only difference is you wont have a say in the matter unlike these two idiots.
I have to ask, do you really believe that, or is that just rhetorical hyperbole?
It's THEIR life, therefore it is THEIR choice! I certainly think thatt's a terrible reason, and we should try and talk folks out of it, but if they're determined to die, they will do so.
Freedom isn't just about YOU getting to do the things YOU want, it's about ALL of us getting to live OUR lives as we wish. Even if that means some of us do things that others of us disapprove of.
America, it's called FREEDOM!!
TTTTTTRRRROLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOOOO!!!! Grow up, Princess.
Even that would be sick and disgusting. :/
Robert-3739553 ...people like you that are delusional and believe in a being you can't see and never answers are the ones making the laws here that keep suffering folks from ending their own lives.
Comment # 1 restored for clarity.
No one can judge how much pain someone else is in either emotional or physical. The right to die should be a choice. People say it is the selfish way out because they think that this puts the pain onto your loved one but aren't your loved one's being selfish by expecting you to take the pain to save them from it?
To all of you religious folks that keeps saying god will judge them you are right but that means unless god is on msn this morning you don't have that right.
I find it hard to believe that there is not a medical treatment for their onset of blindness or a solution to restore at least partial hearing. Is the choice for euthenasia a result of socialized medicine because the cost of finding a way to keep these men alive was too expensive? I think these men saw no alternative because none was offered. What a shameful trap. How many more will be duped into thinking that there is no solution for their pain and suffering?
Helen Keller was one tough mother.
and i still question whether HK was really as blind and deaf as she claimed, think how easy it would be to hoax that back in the day?
This assisted double suicide/murder is disgusting. All suicides are disgusting.
Jessica, that's just foolishness. Helen Keller had Rheumatic fever (or was it Scarlet fever?) as a very young child and was deaf and blind throughout her life after that. How could you or WOULD you fake something like that? She wouldn't have had the ability at that age to fake such a thing.
She lived an admirable life and is someone honor up as a person who overcame adversity.
Jessica; I've heard of conspiracy theories before but that one takes the cake!
These men were courageous in their decision and a big bravo to the Belgian government for their stand on euthanasia. Would that the US were so enlightened. I have a friend who was dying from bone cancer, and in un-manageable pain. He called 911 and shot himself. I miss him still but absolutely support his decision to do what he did. I wish he had another choice like those two men in Belgium.
Yeah, the morons that "run" this country will allow a pet to be euthanized, buy not a human.
JK- Why?
I think the fact that Belgium is considering letting people with dementia make a suicide decision makes the whole thing suspect, not to mention letting children decide to die. A person with dementia is hardly qualified to make a sound decision.
I understand that people should not be kept alive just for the sake of being said to be alive. If the brain is gone, so is life. However, letting people with dementia and children "decide" is rife with abuse potential.
They don't let people with dementia or children decide. They can request it but have to get approval from authorities.
"Under a 2002 law, Belgians are allowed to end their own lives if a doctor judges an individual has made his or her wishes clear and is suffering unbearable pain."
What a sad story. They had more options for their lives than they allowed themselves. There are many blind and deaf people who live full lives. They didn't need to do this. And at such a young age. :(
The Middle1...having dementia usually makes one unable to make decisions for themselves..So why not let paranoid schizophrenics in on it too??
And I can see it now...Children that hate their home lives will be asking judges to let them die...Of course the courts will have to say no, but they've now opened that can-o-worms....
Sorry for the double-post
Did you even read the article? It specifically says that they would have to be diagnosed with terminal / incurable illness. I think it is a brave choice for someone who is suffering so badly. Especially considering that I've known more than one person that has opted to take their own lives as a result of an incurable disease that they were tired of suffering through. This decision also gives the families time to accept the decision and say goodbye to their loved ones, rather than finding them overdosed or with a bullet in their head.
no JK, what's disgusting is your lack of empathy in the matter of suffering. Ever hear of the scripture in that Good Book you probably like to thump "There but for the grace of God go I"? Well pal, walk a mile on someone else's shoes, and after so many blisters, you might just sit your ignorant ass down and think awhile.
somebefuddledperson
US for profit insurance companies do this all the time......
How many kids needed a liver transplant, but insurance denied them - died. Meanwhile DICK CHENEY gets a new heart every year? I trade Cheney for a sick kid any day.
This just makes me sick. Surely one's life is worth more than to let someone else end it. Didn't they have anyone who saw value in them? Someone who would talk them out of this? Did their families just see them as worthless and needy so when they became blind and deaf they were just killed like old horses....God help us please! What are we coming too? We are being lead by people who advertise their sexual preferrences regardless of how disgusting and they want us to believe their way is the correct way to live now because otherwise your a bigot. Now if you don't have a purpose other than drawing welfare or being a draw on the government tit then you can be killed...disgusting.
Pretty sick to disparage Helen Keller.
Vivian...please read the whole article.
Their blindness was not producing pain. Their deafness was not producing pain. So how were they 'suffering unbearable pain'?
Vivian, please shut up, and take an empathy class. You don't have any.
Eppinoia- Deaf and now blind, totally silenced and living in constant dark, like constant solitary confinement. I'd say painful is only the beginning of it.
These men obviously believed that the quality of life far outweighs the quantity.
Should I ever find myself in that situation, I hope I am brave enough to make that decision.
That is the most horrible thing those parents could have done. Those men were productive and they were ALIVE.
It is not our right to take a life just because we don't want to deal with it. Shame on them for this horrible killing.
The parents didn't do it. The 45 year old brothers, consenting adults, chose euthanasia rather than become even less self-sufficient over time. It was their decision, not their parents' and not yours or mine.
PRober -
ALL suicide victims are suffering. Millions of others are suffering too, but they don't choose a cowardly end to their life. What's truly disgusting is their lack of courage. Which "good book" did you find your "scripture" in? You are truly an ignorant person to post such a ridiculous comment and anyone voting for the comment is just as ignorant.
Suicide is hideous.
Nobody's parents made this decision Deborah....sheesh.
Also what in all the @!$%# is Vivian's rant about...I mean I know what it's about, but seriously?
And Dr. Kevorkian was considered a killer. Ridiculous.
We will be there some day, it just takes us a long time to catch up to the more civilized societies.
Eve,
I too hope you never find yourself in such a situation,But opting to end your life is not brave,it is the most selfish thing someone could do,My Grandmother was deaf and mute,And she went to the Hellen Keller school,she raised 13 children ran a small farm after her much older husband passed away, and lived a full and content life,and thank God someone didn't offer her a way out of life and the cards she was given,or I wouldn't have my Dad or his siblings, muchness the rest of her legacy.
jk: Fortunately, what disgusts you isn't a basis for anything outside your skull. My guess is that your disgust extends to just about everything everyone else enjoys.
ster: I think the most selfish thing someone can do is impose their values on someone else.
You are missing the point. In a free society you should be free to choose what you do with your life. Your granny seems to have had a good life, according to you, and that was her choice. If someone else makes a different choice why should you or the government force them to do what you want?
You are missing the point. A free society doesn't mean you get to do whatever you want. With freedom comes responsibility.
I would like to thank Jessica for casting sunlight on the hoax that Helen Keller was. Too long has her shameful rouse been kept from the public.
And what about those moon landings!!
/sarcasm
jk: "Courage" is what it takes to respect other peoples opinions and decisions. "Cowards" are those that can't manage this concept.
just me: Does 'responsibility' include respecting the opinions and decisions of others?
To all posters that have a problem with euthanasia, please mind your own business and spare us your vile opinions. People should be allowed but not forced to die. An individual should have the right to euthanasia if their life is unbearable. This doesn't mean that any form of depression, which can be treatable with medication, would be a viable reason to be euthanized. A qualified doctor with appropriate over-site should be the means to determining who can be legally euthanized.
I personally see nothing wrong with this. I watched my dad die a horrible painful death, he had terminal cancer. He was seventy two years old and suffered for two long years. My mom and I were there when he took his last breath. My grandmother is 94 sitting in an old folks home not knowing who anyone is, this came on suddenly in the last year. It is her time to pass, so why not help her along, she has no quality of life. When my bloodhound reached the age of 11 I had him put down due to the fact living was too hard on him. He could barely walk, he would sometimes mess in his bed and he really didn't want to eat, so the humane thing to do was have him put down. Why should it be different for humans? My 2nd husband suffered from bipolar disorder, his life was a living hell. He drank heavily at times to escape what was going on in his head. He tried numerous medications some made him more (excuse me for this) crazy. He finally ended his pain, he shot himself in the head. So for you bleeding hearts that think this is cruel, how do you know? You aren't the ones walking in those shoes!
Exactly. I've already said many times that if something happens to me, I'll just have a "hunting accident"
The U.S. is light years behind Europe on euthanasia and our ideas about death and dying.
We don't talk about it realistically nor do we make any preparations for it.
We put people thru hideous, heinous treatments - just to get an extra day of miserable pain ridden life, then say that to let them die is "interfering with God's will".
Ridiculous. We need to butt out of everyone else's business and take a good hard look at our society and our outdated, puritanical views.
It's 2013 people...let's start acting like it.
Nonsense. That's not PAIN. You're changing the definition of words. Are you saying that every person who is both blind and deaf are living lives not worth living?
Unbearable pain -- as often found in Cancer patients, etc., -- is qualitatively different than the emotional suffering you're describing.
It is a sad story but I respect their decision. I'm sure it wasn't arrrived at lightly.
"Belgium is now looking at introducing a legal amendment that would allow children and those with dementia the option of seeking permission to die." Now that's a tough one. Neither is competent to decide for themselves.
Epinnoia: "Nonsense. That's not PAIN. You're changing the definition of words. Are you saying that every person who is both blind and deaf are living lives not worth living?" Psychological pain can sometimes be worse than physical pain, especially in this case where both previously had the gift of sight. You can't pretent to know the pain (psychological or physical) of others unless you experienced identical circumstances. Were you ever blind and deaf?
I applaud any Country enlightened enough to allow people to choose the paths of their own existance. Unfortunately there are few. Switzerland and Belgium to my knowledge. Certainly not the US of A.
Almost 7 billion people on the the planet with plenty more on the way and people want to force their own opinions and religious beliefs onto other people. It sickens me. Watching my Aunt at the end of her life dying of Cancer and begging the nurses for more morphine.....heart breaking.
These people who whine about overcoming adversity and how people who are deaf becoming blind as well having full and complete lives. I'd like to see you have to deal with it and see if you feel the same?
I might personally not want to make the choice for myself but I would not stand in the way of someone else....much like I feel about Abortion.
Dr. Kevorkian was/is a champion of enlightened thinking unemcumbered by religious dogma. Jailing him for relieving peoples suffering and misery was disgusting. What other people do with their own lives is their own business.
JK not all people are cowards!
I'm not sure euthanasia is against God's will. Our bodies were created to sustain quite a lot of illness and injury, but in the natural world, without medical intervention, we'd all die much sooner. I'd be dead right now. That's kind of a hard thing to deal with, but if God gave us the intelligence to intervene and save lives, He also gave us the wisdom to understand when it's time to go, and to understand the difference between prolong life and prolonging death.
As for these twins, I think it's terribly sad that this was their choice. At their age, I think they could have learned to adapt, and they did have each other. But, that's their choice to make. And theirs alone.
Ster2 ~
Selfish is wanting someone who is suffering to stay around just because you want their company. That's sick. They and their family were at peace with their decision so maybe you should be happy for them instead of wanting to impose your beliefs on them.
Too bad these guys didn't know that Jesus is alive and risen from the dead... and He and his believers can heal the blind and deaf.
Sad that they gone... I will try harder to heal those who are sick around me so that it doesn't happen here around where I live.
PS - I am not joking here, I have seen people who were blind and deaf be healed instantly in the name of Jesus... I even put up a video of it on YouTube.
Jonathan
Hope you get help Jonathan, believing such outlandishness can only lead to ruination.
Jesus won't even save sick kids with cancer, when has he EVER cured someone's blindness?
(don't bother responding, the answer is ZERO)
Fred Evil -
I didn't know that you knew everything, my fault!
I didn't know that you have talked to every person who has ever lived and disproven every "healing" that has taken place.
I didn't know that you watched the video of a blind woman getting healed that I witnessed with my own eyes and disproved it already!
PLEASE TRY TO UNDERSTAND THIS QUOTE!
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information. Which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance. That principle is contempt prior to investigation."
CONTEMPT PRIOR TO INVESTIGATION... you are trapped in that! and you use it as a proof against ALL ARGUMENTS!
That line is so true. There are so many different kinds of pain and who are we to judge or decide what is best for someone else. We did not walk in these men's shoes, so how do we know what pain they were going through. We all read an article written by someone else and not the two men who were living the life. Easy to judge someone after reading an article written by someone else.
When my father was dying my family wanted him to overdose on his morphine, because we could not stand to watch him suffer. My father did not want to die that way. As a matter of fact my father did not want to die at all, he did not want to leave his family. It was my fathers choice to let the cancer take his life. It was hard on us but it was his (HIS) choice....he still had his mind. My grandmother doesn't know anyone or anything, she just sits in a home and someone has to take care of her, she is an adult infant. Why? Because that is the law and it is a crazy law. I am not a selfish person I don't want my grandmother alive because I can't stand to part with her, my grandmother is dead it is just her shell that sits in that old folks home. She wouldn't know if she died, she doesn't know she is alive and in my eyes she is not. That is not my grandmother. Cruel of me...no....realistic!
@ Jonathan;
"Fred Evil -
I didn't know that you knew everything, my fault!"
But of course, YOU do, right?
Steel toed boot -
so nice of you to join in the conversation...
I do NOT know everything... but I do know a few things!
I know what I have seen with my own eyes!
so what is your take Steel toed boot? what do you believe? and WHY?
@Jonathan - Were those rose or fuchsia colored glasses you were seeing with? Any drugs involved? Just saying hard to believe.
I am blind and deaf. I've also lived in Europe. There is a perception here that these men were suffering "horrible" emotional pain. I'd like to set out some truths here that many are not aware of. It may change how you perceive the "kindness" of euthanasia in this case.
Having lived in Europe AS a blind-deaf person, I can vouch for the fact that MOST (easily 90%) of ALL disabled people are automatically institutionalized in Europe. You will NOT see any large number of people with disabilities anywhere you go in Europe. There are no wheelchair accomodations in most multi-storied apartments, because it's "not a worry." There are no beeping streetlights, you won't see people with seeing eye guide dogs, you won't see groups of people signing.
I was lucky because I moved there from the U.S. Thus, I wasn't institutionalized from babyhood. But European perceptions are HORRID towards those with different abilities. I was made a celebrity in the same manner of Helen Keller, photos were taken of me as if I was a huge movie star because I MIRACULOUSLY functioned in normal society. There was no miracle, I am not and can not be cured, but I on the other hand, while struggling against U.S. perceptions of disabilities, which I call different abilities was SHOCKED at the Europeans' (governments and churches included) FULL on belief that any person who "suffered" such horrid interminable INabilities should seemingly be tossed over the figurative cliff side, just as the Chinese perceive a daughter is unwanted, just as all Russian orphans are institutionalized, just as SIMPLE surgical procedures can CURE deafness for many, it's too horrid, in European opinion to "face" or "LIVE" such a tragedy. it's PERCEPTION via PUBLIC and GOV'T that led these to men to suicide, in a world where they could FULLY function and HAPPILY achieve goals without constraint. Just as there in MORE than one way to get to Italy, there is MORE than one way to achieve EVERYTHING in life.
Any "pain" these two believed they were suffering was PURELY put upon them by a completely unbending and intolerant society. WORSE here, is that the gov't said, "yes, eliminate them."
Now, you may think I'm stretching it a bit, but see, I went through something even WORSE. I was pregnant with a child that had genetically RARE issues (I was married to a Frenchman) and was ORDERED to terminate the pregnancy by the government of France. I refused. I was then ordered by 4 other governments, England, Switzerland, Germany and Italy, and as I refused even then, I was ordered by my THEN church of faith, the very Catholic Pope himself in a letter to terminate and that in THIS case it was okay, because God could and would NEVER have wanted me to have such a misshapen child. No, he didn't have cloven hooves. Nor horns. He was unable to control his nervous system, and constantly jerked. The EUROPEAN GOVERNMENTS did not want him because he constituted a "burden" on the social system. The hypocritical Pope didn't want him because he couldn't have tithed to the church and would have been a daily reminder of the NON-charitable thoughts and beliefs of the "true" church. I was SPECIFICALLY TOLD that my son would be a FINANCIAL BURDEN that NO European gov't wanted.
NO these two men were NOT suffering any pain that wasn't put on them by SOCIETY! NO it's NOT good that they chose euthanasia rather than finding another SUCCESSFUL way to live and NO ONE OFFERED TO HELP THEM FIND IT! YES I'm happy living my life. I work, I raise my son VERY well, (he's happy 14 stable and healthy as can be and getting A's in school!) I'm a single mom, the ONLY help I get is from my best friend who drives me when SHE goes anywhere that I might need to go. I get help with a ride to work in the morning, but I WALK HOME every time I'm done working. I have lived in New Zealand, France, I have been to fabulous places around the U.S., I have a wonderful group of friends, a large group at that, and it pains me deeply to have seen these two men isolated from others who could have taught them that life is JUST as happy without sight, rather than leaving them in a society that shunned them as "UNable."
I am NOT against Euthanasia, in the case of imminent death and physical pain, yes, NOT in this case, this was Europe's way of JUSTIFYING and then CARELESSLY throwing two people away who needed not be. Europe MUST change its attitude towards the disabled. It MUST!!!!! By the way, yes there are SOME disabled out and about, but they are SO incredibly few, and from me, who would notice, I always wondered where they were, until they told me that at my son's birth, they'd immediately take him from me and put him in an institution. REGARDLESS of my wants or desires for my son. No options were offered, and ZERO help was offered. the ONLY reason they stopped from institutionalizing ME was because I had the ability to raise a HUGE stink via the American Embassy.
being disabled is NOT a "pain." NOR are disabled undesirable, NOR should anyone here "understand" or believe that these two SHOULD have been euthanized. How INCREDIBLY morally wrong these two deaths were, NOT from a religious point of view, but from a HORRIBLY UNJUSTIFIED INTOLERANT government and population that REFUSED to step up and HELP these two to see what they COULD accomplish.
Thank GOODNESS no one told Beethoven to kill himself, or Mozart (who suffered mental problems) or Van Gogh, or Da Vinci, Einstein, and the list goes on. These Deaths were WRONG. And I shall be sending this letter to the doctor at Mass Eye and Ear Institute who told me to give up EVERYTHING at the tender age of 19. Dr. Berson, I have multiple degrees from Universities around the world, now. Who's stupid NOW?
I experience NO MORE pain than any other person alive. I have sadness when something sad happens. I am happy when happy things happen. I am angry when appropriate etc. I am NOT suffering pain ANY MORE than any other person on the earth!
Does extreme depression then merit euthanasia? How about the inability to have sex? Walk? Be without arms? Epilipsy? What happens if you lose a child and want to die? Should you? why is THAT pain any less? What happens if you lose your husband/wife? is THAT pain any less? Stop and TRULY ask yourselves the TRUTH here. These two men were NOT offered options! They were ONLY offered PITY, and a breath of relief that the Belgian government wouldn't have to take care of THEM anymore. And that I DO know as truth.
Dear Echoe,
Thank you for posting. You have my total and complete admiration and respect. You have lived life to the fullest and I am extremely happy that you are present to express yourself with such facility. I must agree. Europe is most intolerant and prejudicial toward anyone with a percieved "disability". My mother in law was born in rural Ireland with amblyopia. Because of this she was labeled as "backward" and promply farmed out to a relative at the age of five without any notice from her family. She was simply taken there to live with an elderly aunt and uncle and essentially abandoned. She told me this herself. I suspect she may have been sexually abused by the uncle. This treatment scarred her for life. Naturally shy, she bacame increasingly withdrawn. What saved her was her ability to emmigrate to the US with her older sister. Here, she met her husband, had three children and raised them all to adulthood. My husband was her youngest and only five when his father died. This courageous and intelligent woman restricted to an eighth grade education ( since the family recieved 5 shillings a year for children up to eighth grade), worked as a domestic and then an excellent home attendant for years. I heard many comments from family over the years that she was "slow" and "backward". Nell was shy but certainly not stupid. I noticed this attitude as well when we took a trip to Roscommon and met a neighbor who walked with a limp. My cousins made fun of him and I found this particularly odious. John was actually a lovely man who used his tractor to pull our car out of a muddy gully when we slid off a rural road. I found him gracious and admonished my husbands cousins calling their behavior disgraceful. I am horrified to hear of the extent to which "imperfect" human "specimens" are treated. I wonder how many brilliant, talented and sensitive souls have been sacrified to this meatgrinder of ignorance. We talk of "genocide" and ignore this silent debacle. This IS genocide.
I am truly sorry that these men were coerced by an uncaring, uncooperative system into making such a horrific "decision". May they rest in peace. My heart fills with tears of sorrow for their grief and for their loss. I am thankful for your presence and for the presence of my friend Bonnie who was born with CP. In europe, she might have simply been killed. I would have missed an unspeakably fabulous companion. Thank You for informing the world of the truth. ...Perhaps europe has had the problems it has had as a continent over the centuries for their evil and misbegotten policies....Keep in touch with me. I would like to know you better. God Bless....
Meg.
jonathon, you say "I have seen it", but did you actually know the individuals that were "miraculously healed"?
or were they some strangers that showed up with some extras for the backup "its true " statements, who then left and went on to do the next "miraculous healing" down the road?
did you ever see those "healed people" either before or after?
Echoe, your story is cute and all, I mean totally believable.
I just have a few questions regarding your claim.
Would you care to explain to me why 4 countries who you have absolutely no connection to you would demand that you terminate a pregnancy that does not affect them in any way what so ever.
Infact how was it these governments became aware of your situation?
Who exactly in these governments "ordered" you to terminate it?
When has the Catholic church ever supported abortion? Even in the most dire cases they are against it.
You are aware that no government in any of the countries you listed have the legal ability to make such a request?
What exactly was this rare genetic condition that spurred the French government to break it's own laws.
(Perhaps you could give us a time period since such an occurence would surely be all over the news, we can see for ourselves.)
I understand that it is more than likely that you have never been to Europe before so I would like to clarify a few items for you.
Europe is a collection of countries. Policies in one country do not reflect the entirety.
The countries you have mentioned all have spectacular resources to help people with disabilities.
(Yes they even have plenty of wheel chair acessible buildings,as well as schools for the deaf and blind)
There is no country in Europe that requires that children with disabilties be institutionalized or aborted.
Nor is it considered common.
I will of course give you the oppurtunity to answer these questions or rebuttal, however it seems highly unlikely.
I will not make an assumption as to why you lie about such a thing, however anyone who has been to any country in Europe would obviously be aware that you are lying.
Then again anyone with an ounce of common sense would see your story doesn't add up.
I suggest if you are opposed to people commiting suicide then you should find a better arguement or story, perhaps something a little more realalistic.
Then again perhaps you need to do a little soul searching and figure out why you feel the need to determine how someone ends their life?
Live your life not theirs.
Then again, maybe you're telling the truth and the Pope wrote you a letter telling you to abort your baby. LOL!
This is a personal decision that only the individual involved is qualified to make. Too bad our country isn't as civilized as Belgium.
Pretty sad.
I don't disagree with their decision, or the fact they should have this right ... I just don't really understand the timing?
We are living in an age where medical advancements are exponentially growing ALL THE TIME. I've heard a ton over the last few years about new technologies that not only could help with hearing, but restore vision as well. These guys were only 45 years old ... could someone have shared some of these advancements with them, at least?
The bane of all religion: free will!!!
I agree Cynical, it was their choice, I don't know if I would have felt the same way at age 45 but I am not deaf and facing blindness either. If you were born deaf and blind it would be different, but to go blind at 45 when you had been deaf your whole life would be rough. Too bad our corporate theocracy which only poses as a democracy was not more evolved as to allow people the choice of when they want to die.
Even though our technology and treatment have progressed greatly in the last 20 years in the medical field, there is still no "cure all" for a lot of things. Since we don't know what was causing their blindness, odds are that it was possibly irreversible if their own doctors and those on the board allowed this decision to be made. If they had no treatment options available to them, regardless of having to travel to a different country to have treatment done, then to them it felt like the right decision to leave the world while they could.
Yeah just let the weak and infirm off themselves so society won't have to take care of them. Make them feel they are a burden make them feel the time and money needed to keep them alive isn't worth it. Your in too much pain take a pill and everyone problems are solved. we wouldn't want you to suffer. You are better than a dog and if we can put a dog down why shouldn't you decide to be put down.
Bluelake
The bane of all religion: free will!!!
The bane of man: Bad choices of free will. God gave you free will, even to hate Him, but use that free will wisely....
I dont know why but death still scares the bejeebies out of me, so while I am glad they are not in their own state of suffering, I feel weak with the thought of it.
You don't have free will granted by an all knowing creator. If he knows what you will chose, then you don't have a free will as the choice is already made for you.
If you end up choosing something else, then I guess the creator wasn't all knowing, was she?
I totally agree, where was the new technologies and such to help these men. It's sad, truly sad but we are at the cusp of correcting things like this if the govt. would change their views.
I think if I lived in Belgium I'd kill myself too. Seriously folks. Regardless of whether or not they had the right to off themselves is beside the point. Two cowards. Why not try and use their experiences to help others? Suicide is the most selfish acts you can perform. What would have been hilarious would have been if one of them chickened out at the end and the other didn't notice.
I totally agree!! The USA should give us the right to die at our choosing when we are facing certain health situations!!
To each his own Svenolafson. I bet there is a form of unalleviated suffering that would cause you to end your life. Let's hope you never have that experience. I don't think I have the right to judge their decision since I have had the blessing of sight and hearing my entire life. I do know it can get harder to accept a cruel fate as one grows older. Maybe they were bitter from years of struggle. You don't know their story. I am wondering what has happened to you to take such a cruel and compassionless stance.
Could you explain how knowledge of someone's choice negates the will with which that person makes said choice? I can't, for the life of me, understand your logic here.
JK-415873 - So you don't think they should have this choice because it makes you feel guilty?
Shiva,
I have every right to judge their decision. These individuals were not dying. Pathetic individuals if they couldn't handle hanging out to find out what's at the end of the line.
It's called compassion. Too many of you are lacking in it.
I think if someone wants to end their life, they should be allowed to - regardless of the reason.
Clearly, I think that you should have to go through counselling, see professionals, all that jazz before you allowed access to an assisted suicide...but if it's abundantly clear there is no end in sight to whatever plauges you, and you've had enough...that should be it.
We arent talking about emotionally messed up people who just got dumped and overreact in a dramatic fashion. Those folks can and still will jump off bridges if thats their choice.
We are talking about people with permanent damage - either emotionally, physically or both.
I don't really know what is more selfish - forcing someone to live and endure never ending pain and suffering, so that we dont have to suffer and be in pain when their lives end....or people who choose suicide when their problems are so tiny and fixable, but they are just too lazy or whatever to do what they have to do.
Suicide IS selfish - under certain circumstances, but not all.
i'm not religious, so for me taking your own life doesnt carry the same "oh no!" feelings. for a religious person, why your god would want you to suffer is a question you'll have to ask him. but for me, if im ever so bad that life just isnt worth living anymore - i'll be ok with asking someone, kindly and politely, to turn my lights out.
Svenolafson - it seems to me they cut in the line, to find out sooner.
I have had MS for over 10 years now. So far, I've been very lucky, and I still live a relatively normal life with no impediments. However, if my disease progresses, and gets to the point that I'm bed-ridden, in pain, pissing/sh*ting myself, and can't see/hear my loved ones, you better damn well believe I want the choice to end my life. I would choose not to be a burden to my loved ones, and I would choose not to suffer through that situation. I can only hope that they can halt the progression of MS or that assisted suicide laws take hold here before I get to that stage.
Why are people harboring the delusion that modern medicine can cure everything?!?
We live in a wonderful age but doctors are not magicians.
Anyone, anywhere can end his or her life if he or she really wants to stop living. There are a plethora of ways to do it.
The logic is actually quite simple.
There is no "choice" when dealing with the concept of omniscience ... that's why the concept is a complete non sequitur.
Omniscience is essentially the capacity to know everything that there is to know. If someone already knows every single decision you are ever to make before you can even make it, there is no decision ... therefore, there is no "choice."
Furthermore, we are forced to logically grapple with the concept of god's omnipotence .... his "plan", if you will. We are told god knew us before we were born, that he's set out a specific plan for us, etc. Essentially, when bad things happen in life, we are further reinforced with the delusion that this is: "All part of god's plan."
In Conclusion:
- If your god has a set plan for our lives, our destiny, our humanity ... there is no such thing as free will. There's no choice, and what you "want" has little barring on an omniscience being's "plan".
- If god already knows which decisions we've made (omniscience) before we even know the scenarios with which we will "choose" .... than choice is merely an illusion ... free will, is nothing more than an illusion.
God(s) pose rather beautiful philosophical questions and interesting conceptual scenarios with which to ponder ... but when applying simple logic and reason, gods (at least, our tiny representations of them) become rather small, trivial little things.
If there is/was a god, the concept of "free will" is more than likely one he/she/it wouldn't bother "thyself" with.
Why should anyone be forced to live if they don't want to live. If you can kill someone because they are in pain caused by a terminal illness, or refuse to be resucitateed, then I say you should be able to ask to be killed if it's too painful to pay the cable bill. Or having to watch cable tv should be reason enough to want to die. It is really your decision and noone elses.
Its the entitlement mindset. I don't want them to die so its all about me controlling their life. I realize that some people have families and other concerns but the bottom line is it is their decision.
Your God too Jessica, like it or not.
People have different beliefs in a god or no god. It's not for you to decide that your god resides over everyone if people have different beliefs than your own. Let people believe what they want and worry less about it since it doesn't affect how you live your life. It's called tolerance.
I hope when my time comes, that I will have the same option. It's not cowardice. It's a decision that one makes knowing full well that meaningful life is over. My definition may be very different than someone elses. These two gentlemen felt that their meaningful lives were over. I don't necessarily agree, but it was THEIR decision. No such decision is easy.
I've watched people wither away in nursing homes, run their caregivers to early graves, and cried countless tears from the tremendous burden. For so many, their minds had left this world long ago. I truly do not want that to be my legacy.
I have already written my will, made my funeral arrangements and bought my urn. No one need worry about the disposition of my remains. It's all been taken care of. It's a gift to my children, and I know my wishes in the same regard.
I'm pushing 60, and if I make it another 40, I'm fine with that. But if I don't, and I'm falling apart in body and mind, I DO NOT want to continue through pain and uselessness. It would be totally pointless, and corrupt my entire goal of life--to be in control of my faculties, be constructive and supportive, and never to be a burden to others. Others may have other goals, but those are mine.
Many will fight to their last breath. That may be their goal. Others may have a different point of view. Nevertheless, these men made a decision that we must respect. We don't have to agree with it, but it was their choice to make.
Svenolafson,
So what's your opinion about someone that publicly mocks dead people ( anonymously, to boot )? Is that person being brave or cowardly?
Svenolafson,
They were going blind for years, they new what they were up against, and with their ever growing disability, they have found that they could not live that way. Why are you so judgmental? Are you someone that has an ever growing disability or terminal illness? I have watched people slowly wither and die, in sheer misery. that is no way to live.
At least these civilized individuals didn't kill a dozen innocent people before they ended their lives.
Obviously Vivian and Debra cannot read or something. They were born deaf, lived to be 45 and for the last few years their vision has been progressively deteriorated (sorry if I mispell anything). They felt like it was time. It wasn't a decision of the family, it was their own. While most are crying about how young they are, they have their whole lives ahead of them. Put yourself in their shoes. They grew up together, worked together, eat together, laughed, played, shared moments and now they are resting in peace together. The greatest relief to a person who is about to die is not being alone while going to the great beyond (or whatever is out there). This is not something they thought overnight. I believe they felt like they didnt' want to be a burden, having someone to take care of their every needs on a daily basis. They felt like it was time to exit off the stage. It takes a lot of thought and courage to want to end it all. That's just my own personal opinion
I did read and understood what I read. No one has a right to take a life like this.
Being deaf and blind would be a hardship but not worth dying over.
My mother had polio as a baby, she is almost to the point of not being able to do anything. She still believes her life is not her own to take.
Actually, JK is delighted that they had the choice. It gave him an opportunity to feel superior and be judgmental.
The operative word is "believes."
"I'm not afraid of death, I just don't want to be there when it happens." Woody Allen
sven: "Regardless of whether or not they had the right to off themselves is beside the point." What, exactly, is the point? That such wizened persons as yourself should be licensed to make decisions for all others? I don't have a copy of your agenda, so you'll provide guidance? Your statement strongly suggests that 'wizened' is a very long way off.
A nod is as good as a wink to a blind horse.
zapper-
So have I, I did this about 10 years ago, I'm 37. I think it's the responsible thing to do.
Everyone has their own personal choice in how to handle THEIR life. It doesn't matter if there are religious reasons behind it or if someone is afraid of what they may face, it is a personal choice. I commend your mother for believing her life is not her own to take, but people will have their own personal views how their life should be handled. These men live in a country that has strict guidelines that have to be followed in order to be sure all parties understand what is required for euthanization. ALL parties, that's the men, their families, attornies, doctors and the board the okays the euthanization, agreed and met the requirements. This is not something that is chosen on a whim. There is a very long discussion about it that can take up to a couple of years before consent is given by the medical board to have this done. You may not agree with what the men did and may harbor ill feelings against their families for doing what a family does (SUPPORT THEM) but this decision is not for anyone but the men to decide if they feel they would be compromised in having both their hearing and sight lost. Each person handles their view on life differently and though people may feel that this was a cop-out, that is not for them to decide as they have no idea what these men were feeling or going through at the time. Unless you go through it yourself and have your own personal experience with it, you have no right to judge what a person does with their life.
chad-1841583,
Merely repeating that omniscience and the ability to make choices are incompatible is neither logical, nor proof.
You said,
Again, please show how knowing every single decision a person is ever going to make negates the fact that they do, in fact, make the decision? How does knowledge usurp their ability to make a decision?
If knowledge usurps will, then because I know what decisions were made by people in the past, my knowledge influences their ability to make that choice. My knowledge of their choice in the past means they could not have made any other choice. Does that make sense at all? No, it does not.
Say I'm at an intersection and I can turn left, or right. Someone knows which direction I'm going to choose. Does that mean I have no choice? Regardless of that person's knowledge of the choice that I'm going to make, I still make the choice.
I can't and won't defend bad theology. Omnipotence does not mean "plan" it means all powerful. Is it possible that an all powerful being could be a poor planner? Could it be completely impulsive? I would answer, yes. Power and planning are not the same thing. Now if you are saying that a being's omnipotence means that it has the ability to ensure its plans come to fruition, then I would agree, but I would not agree that it necessarily means that every action made by other beings are controlled by the omnipotent being.
Again, omnipotence means being all powerful. Does that necessarily require the being to constantly be exerting its power? Is the ability to exert absolute power the same as constantly exerting absolute power? Not at all. In fact, if an all powerful being is compelled to constantly exert its power, it is no longer all powerful.
Most of the people in this argument, yes, I'd agree, if the answer is that EVERYONE should be allowed to take their life, for ANY reason, you bet. I'm with you on that. Free choice.
Deprogrammer, you blew it. You see, YOU would be a reason I'd be SUPER glad not to hear a word you have to say. I don't want to sit and listen (and don't have to, because I'm both deaf AND blind) to how I'M having it rough becuase YOU think it's bad to be deaf and blind. I don't have to deal with the constant noise of where I work, or deal with the headaches one can get reading all day, or from bright light, or loud music, I feel SO sorry for YOU Deprogrammer, you must have it SO bad having to deal with all these HORRIBLE interminable things. Awww, I pity you, you should probably go ask for euthanasia. (sarcasm) I'm doing just fine, and need idiots who think being deaf and blind is pitiable to get the heck out of my way so I can do what I do..
"To the man who says, "that can't be done." He should get out of the way of the man doing it. " unknown author
And why shouldn't people have the power to end their own lives? Why does the state reserve that power to themselves, as if we were all slaves who are only allowed to die when the state says we can?
There is no cowardice in choosing to die when one sees no point to living.
Helen Keller chose to live. These men chose to die. Respect both decisions. It's their choice to make, not yours.
Likely these men had congenital retinitis pigmentosa (I think that's what it's called). The blindness is inevitable, genetic and total. I mean, it's not like they just had bad cataracts or something.
It's probably Usher syndrome.
You can commit suicide without a Dr's O.K. Just take a handful of any over the counter pills you can find. It is just the family wanting the Insurance company to pay is what this is all about.
Yes, this article makes it sound so "peaceful and wonderful and sterile". You people are all for it until YOUR the one that is being"put down."
Nurse Cathy~
It was THEIR DECISION.
Nurse Cathy
No one made the decision for them. They faced a remainder of their lives never to see or hear what was going on around them. It was their own choice, not yours.
Ah, that would be a no JK -- that is most definitely NOT what "this is all about". And your assertion "just take a handfull of any over the counter pills you can find" is as absurd as it is wrong. Please stop making comments about a medical topic about which you clearly know absolutely ZERO.
JK - do you know many people use that method to kill themselves and it doesnt work, and they are damaged even worse?
They choose this method because it would be quick and painless - compassionate is a word MOST of us understand, and therefore choose to use here.
Clearly, from your posts, not a word often found in your vocabulary. Try walking in someone elses shoes for a minute...you might find all our paths are not as easy to travel.
"nurse" Cathy,
If you really are a nurse (doubt it), isn't reading comprehension part of your education???
They were N-O-T "put down" but chose their demise over a life of no sound and no sight. I would absolutely choose the same. What gives you the right to decide for them? What a stupid, heartless comment.
Im sure she is Nurse Cathy wipe their ass. Even if, Nurse's are self proclaimed egomaniac's.
I have had so many chicky-dont's say they are nurses then when confronted, CA.
Three day cracker Jack school.
Whatever school she went to...they didn't teach her how to spell... it isn't "YOUR"...nurse cathy...it's "You're". "YOUR" implies ownership... as in your car... "You're" means you are.
there are choclear implants. i have one that failed i am terribly depressed but i keep going in my mind keep serving Good our inner lives are rich . these men had each other could have learned braile too. choclear implants allow beautiful effortless electronic hearing, mild , like natural though all things sound like mickey mouse. i have complete faith that no matter what becomes me God is present and he loves me so my will is known the fruits of the spirit are endless joy...what joy touch or fresh air would bring. what satisfaction courage brings. i know several d/blind ppl. many americans with disabilities dealing w/ physical pain , but working, doing the best they can sharing joy driven to live well.
a society like this keeps pressing. these men were not in pain or tormented but made a rational decision at best. i feel sorry for them. i wish i could helped them americans would have sent money to help with coclear implants learing braile supported work, bible study and friendship. they could have learned new skills like cooking and be proud to take care of themselves and do good woks.
but no one can tell another the value of his/her own life. this is why people love jesus christ . who else cares?
People can be so cruel with their comments. Being deaf and blind is a living death. Its essentially impossibel to have a meaningful life regardles of how strong your will is. Helen was born that way at least so she didn't know any different. My heart breaks with these two unforunate souls, some people just don't catch a break in this world it seems.
The one break that they did catch was that they lived in Belgm instead of the USA. Over and over, you read that people are completely FOR assisted suicide, but you will most likely never see it happen in this country. Now, why do you supposed that is??
Because there's money to be made in extending people's lives as dependents of expensive medical technology? Because of medieval religious dogma dictating legislation? Because of people in power wanting to control others down the lower castes of society like serfs? Naaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh.....
So, Sicktired, you can decide what a "meaningful life" is for people other than yourself? You just KNOW that going deaf and blind is a living death? People lose their vision, hearing, and even multiple limbs every day. They don't kill themselves. They struggle, adjust and hope, they do this in part because others love or care, and they triumph in some way or form eventually. That's called "life". The two men in this story had family members around them when they died. Too bad they weren't there, apparently, while they lived. Better that the brothers go than be a burden on the family. Right.
I know several Deaf/Blind individuals that would disagree wholeheartedly with you on that one. Please do not make assumptions regarding the quality of another's life from your own hearing/sighted perspective.
It already exists under the Death with Dignity acts in more than one state. PAS is not unheard of in this country at all.
Sicktired, your statements are NOT TRUE. You do NOT know that. Not every blind and deaf person is "dead". What a @!$%#ed up thing to say.
PLENTY of blind and deaf people still enjoy reading, travel, fine foods, dating, owning a pet, having children. Too bad you have such a skewed view on an entire community of people.
I personally think that Sicktired was referring to HIS/HER feelings and what HE/SHE would chose.
My Grandmother lived to be 98, her bodily health (except for hip replacements) was excellent. She did need a hearing aid....BUT she had the type of Macular Degeneration that has no cure and has nothing to slow it down. She lived in an "assisted living complex" .... but over the years, she asked me to pray that she would die. She spent her life volunteering for others during the day and needlework, crafts, reading, cooking - in the evening. New glasses, magnifying glasses, books on tape "I fall asleep to them." .....
She raised me, she was my everything, I called everyday to read the newspaper to her - one day she said, "I feel like I am existing, not living." She had been completely blind for 10 years at that point and legally blind for 25 years.
She prayed to die each night.
No one can judge another unless they are living in that person's shoes. I didn't want my Grandma/mama to leave me, but I did as she asked, and prayed that she would die in her sleep - because I loved her and it was what SHE wanted.
DocJT & Isis - I have a feeling that the "PEOPLE YOU KNOW" might be putting on a brave face to the world, but you'll never know the darkness of the thoughts that reside in them. The brighter, shinier, happier their public face is - you can almost guarantee something equally as dark/sad is on the inside.
Not always, but often enough - thats how it rolls.
My grandpa who lost his wife over 4 years ago now has been having a hard year, health issues, stay in the hospital and now he's finally in assisted living.
He's very religious, so he'd never consider taking his own life...On more than a hanful of occasions he's gone on and on about how "why hasnt the good lord taken me yet"
but I wonder, what is the difference between wanting to take your own life...and wanting GOD to take your life?
The same outcome right - game over?
Given that I have been active in the Deaf community, which includes the Deaf/Blind, for over 25 years I doubt seriously that I am making that superficial a determination. Additionally, my profession provides me with the skills to determine someone "putting on a brave face" and someone making an honest statement regarding their perception of their life.
Perhaps you should not be making assumptions about others from your own hearing/sighted perspective.
Black Kettle,
She sounds like she was a smart person. Just think if she also couldn't hear you or anyone else, as well as being blind.
Anyone who doubts their decision, simply close your eyes and plug your ears for a day...THEN see how you feel.
Jessica, who are you to speak on behalf of disabled people. You're basically saying that they're "faking" being happy. Shame on you.
You are NOT these people, you are NOT in their heads, you do NOT know how they feel, and NEVER WILL therefore have NO BUSINESS saying that they're all "dark and despair" on the inside.
Hell, why don't you just stop sugarcoating it, and start calling every disabled person you know that IS happy a liar? Since that's what you're doing here.
So, Nikolaus20, you can decide how their family members felt about them and what kind of support they were given?
We all need someone like jk to check every decision we ever make for accuracy. We've all heard the argument; 'I don't want your guidance.....but you simply don't realize that you need it.
flbikerchick: We all don't fabricate scenarios to 'prove' our agendas - just some of us. Just fill in whatever details we need, and go from there. It's usually the only way we can convince ourselves of our relevance.
My mother has her own saying..."Don't talk until it happens." Meaning...don's say what you'd do until it happens to YOU.
Jessica
I'm pretty sure that the difference between wanting to take your own life and wanting god to take your life is that when you want god to do it, you are absolving yourself of responsibility. I believe that this is the reason religion remains popular all over the world. When a "devout" individual doesn't want to take responsibility for something, they simply blame it on god or the devil. They like to say, "God made me do it", or, " God wants..." it's extremely convenient as it can be used to (not)explain any action.
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I can't imagine the pain and fear for all concerned in this situation -- the twins and their family. I'm just glad they lived in a country that respects individual rights and allowed them to make up their own minds.
If your son was about to jump off a building because he lost his arms in an accident, would you respect his decision and yell, "Jump honey!"? How would a doctor ending his life be any different? Death is not the answer to every instance of grief or loss in life. We used to say that people who said otherwise were in a state of mind that wasn't rational. Now many people cheer them on and call it "enlightened".
How judgemental, Nikolaus. It was their personal desicion. Maybe they didn't want to tie others down and burden them, but of course, you never would have considered that.
This whole thing reminds me of the Avenged Sevenfold song Brompton Cocktail. Here's a quote from it which I think rings true "I have the right to die."
Nikolaus20 - I'm sure there is some form of unalleviated suffering that would cause you to want to end your life. Lets hope you never find out what that is. And if you do, I hope you have the fortune to find a way to end it with grace and dignity. Every one has a different idea of what is unbearable. Your example was dramatic and not on par with the story. These men may have had many other losses in their lives and had simply had enough. Who are you to tell them to do otherwise? If you were blind and deaf I would think you at least had a some right to speak from experience.
Nikolaus20, before you judge others, make sure you are exactly in their shoes otherwise you have no idea what they are experiencing. If you are not, you should not be judging that person. Be certain otherwise, when you judge another person so harshly, you will experience something harsh enough to put yourself in that persons state of mind. You should try to be more compassionate toward your fellow man.
WTF people - they were going to be deaf and blind at age 45. Whether you would make the same decision isn't relative. I don't understand this question of whether they might burden other people.. they would not be able to communicate for the rest of their lives - try to wrap your heads around that. The prospects of living the next 30 years of your life in an isolation chamber. No light, no sound, no communication with others, no communication with each other - a big empty void of nothingness for the rest of your days. Quite a bit different then losing a few limbs.
Jay,
Very well said...only an idiot could argue otherwise.
Don't be ridiculous. But if my son was in a situation where he was in horrible pain, unable to communicate and especially AWARE all of this was going to happen to him, I'd certainly hope that our society had advanced to the point where he was allowed to make this decision.
This is not 'jumping out a window" -- this is a reasoned decision made in conjunction with family, friends, legal representation and doctors.
I guess it's only wishful thinking that we could have this type of enlightenment in the U.S.
No, we have to keep everyone alive so hospitals and Big Pharma can make money!
Even if people complete end-of-life documents saying they don't want to be kept alive, sometimes those wishes are ignored. My mother had to constantly check on hospital staff to make sure they weren't feeding my stepfather when he was dying.
I believe in reincarnation, so I believe these two souls have not really died.
I feel exactly the same way. Thanks.
I think that the religious right have a lot to do with it also.
actually oregon allows a euthanasia program..as far as i know they are the only one that do so in the US..and so far their data is encouraging because it just shows that the system is not abused by confused and desperate people as some legislators had feared. Majority of the guys who decide to off themselves are elderly whites with a decent amount of money in the bank..studied this for an ethics course a few years back im not sure if the program is still going on
I hope they have found the peace they were seeking.
Hey, SeesThruGloss, dont judge when you've never been in their shoes. I cannot imagine anything more horrible than being deaf AND blind. Yes, Hellen Keller was remarkable, but not everyone can bear the same things. I'm glad they were able to have their wishes carried out.
I applaud their right to make that decision. Americans are so stuck on this idea that everyone has to be "saved" no matter what their condition is, and frankly it puts many people through horrible pain and suffering not to mention the cost of long term treatment. Good for them and good for Belgium.
Very sad for these twins, but what a refreshing and enlightened approach the Belgians have taken. They're lucky not to be saddled with our conservative "family values" Christians.
Why do you need to drag Christians into this? If you have a bug up your butt about religion that's your deal don't take it out on all Christians. I for one happen to think that when someone is in terrible pain or terminally ill then they should be allowed to have a doctor help them on their way out. I have a mother in law who is 95 and barely living. Her heart keeps beating but she is not really living. When I see her all I can think is there should be a way to just let her go peacefully instead of suffering with Parkinson's to the point where she can't even swallow anything. I mean they treat animals better than they do humans. All this so the pharmaceutical companies and insurance industries can keep plugging along. Disgusting! And btw I am Catholic, we all don't follow along blindly.
dc, you're most definitely NOT one of the Christians I'm talking about. You think for yourself and don't force your values down everyone else's throat. The people I was referring to are the conservatives who got in an uproar about Terry Shiavo. They weren't content to just live their values -- they insist that everyone else does, too.
Sorry to hear about your mother-in-law. My mother passed away from dementia, and I'm certain she would have preferred a more dignified end. I grew up Catholic as well.
dc and VV..you are two intelligent people...too bad there aren't 200 million more like you so the archaic laws we are governed by could be changed to more compassionate ones.
VV my apologies, I thought you were painting with a broad brush. I know those types you are speaking about. Compromise is what makes this world a better place. Sticking to outdated dogma is just ignorant in my opinion. Sorry about your mom, nobody should suffer in the end. Thanks Logic for the compliment.
nik: You seem to be the only one here suggesting there was any 'cheering', or anyone yelling 'jump". Hadn't you noticed?
VV/DC: We all seem to have developed mighty short fuses - and some of us have managed to overcome this curse - you two being sterling examples. Good on you both - I'll echo 'logic's' sentiments.
i respect there mutual decision.....hope you find peace in the afterlife
It would be unrealistic to not bring in the "slippery slope" argument.
What a great country!!! A no nonsense law for people to use. If I were to find out I had a terminal illness/disabiling physical malady I would want the option of doing the same in lieu of bankrupting me/my familyor going on public welfare to sustain my living until I died. I know several others who woukd do likewise.
May they be guided and cherished by caring souls, and return in their own good time.
No one in the US will ever have that kind of choice. Imagine deciding, in your own best interest, to end it before the doctors and insurers have a chance to charge millions to try and treat you. Any bit of life at any cost is the mantra.
We have something close in Oregon but you have to be teminal.
Death with Dignity Act
On October 27, 1997 Oregon enacted the Death with Dignity Act which allows terminally-ill Oregonians to end their lives through the voluntary self-administration of lethal medications, expressly prescribed by a physician for that purpose. The Oregon Death with Dignity Act requires the Oregon Health Authority to collect information about the patients and physicians who participate in the Act, and publish an annual statistical report.
Washington State has a PAS act, as well.
Yep, I live in WA. DWDA and PAS both apply only to terminally ill as defined by doctors... in other words, after the insurance co's, hospitals, and doctors have stripped you of everything they can and have come to the conclusion you will die anyway, then you can choose to die.
These two men had a level of choice that simply would never be permitted in the US.
As a resident of Massachusetts who strongly supported the PAS/DWSA initiative that was narrowly defeated, as noted by a previous poster. The opposition consisted of the religiously fanatic who resorted to every "slippery slope" argument and falsehood known to personkind. They, in affect, forced their "lifestyle" on the rest of us. If I am afflicted with a condition that will render me helpless, I should be legally able to exit my life in a manner that does make a nasty mess for first responders; shotguns and the rear tires of semis are down right icky. Also, the semi tire thingy screws up traffic.
My body; my choice.
malinda: Personally, I think that if any laws are enacted on religious grounds, I'll not be at all concerned about violating their 'legality'. Taking your own life, for any reason, doesn't seem to me to be a violation of anyone else's rights. Might offend their sensibilities - an offense that would be a self-imposed.
We need a law like this.
wow - who would want to live with no sound or sight - you are a plant at that point - and who are the religious wingnuts to decide that for someone else - you are not in their shoes and do not have to live and experience that horrible existence - but the bible says diferently somehow - that s the book that should be outlawed - thank heaven (get it) for practical thinkers -
How many times do I have to say it? Not every blind and deaf person feels that way.
Were you making an attempt at being extremely insensitive and offensive, or did it just happen in the process of posting?
Oh isis the word is choice.
I know they have a choice ruset. Thank you captain obvious.
Helen Keller had someone to help her through her life. Anyone could make it through life with disabilities if you have a personal helper. Unfortunately, most people are not in the position Helen Keller's family was.
Most people don't want to live Helen Keller's life. I would sooner die than live both blind and deaf. It's a personal choice, and one that other people can't make for anyone. I would get zero joy out of being in the dark with no sound for the rest of my life. I don't blame these twins in the least. Good for them for being able to take control of their own fate, regardless of what others think.
When I was in high school, I worked for an amazing gentleman who was blind and deaf. My job was to respond to letters he received. We communicated via his gloves, which had letters on them. I and his many friends had so much respect for him because he was a person of dignity and courage. But I don't know if he ever considered his life not worth living--probably not. However, the decision made by the twins in this story is personal and should not be disparaged.
The RCC must be apoplectic.
For those of you saying "remember Hellen Keller", well Hellen Keller was NOT BLIND, big, big difference, she was deaf-mute. I applaud a society that lets people choose what to do with their lives. A long way to go America..................................
No, according to her Wikipedia page, she was deaf and blind ... and the first "deafblind" person to ever earn a Bachelor of Arts degree.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_Keller
She was deaf and blind. Because the illness happened before she could really grasp talking, it resulted in her being unable to form words and only produce sound when she was frustrated, upset, angry, etc. You may want to be sure in your research before trying to correct people.
Buddy, Hellen Keller was blind and deaf, but she could talk. There's videos on youtube of her speaking, she even spoke at lecture halls. She may have sounded off, but she was able to speak. What the heck are you talking about?
Helen Keller did learn to talk as an adult - but her speach was that of a person who had never heard a sound, so technically I guess we could say she was not mute.
Helen Keller went blind, deaf and mute at the age of two. Does anyone here even remember something they did at age 2? To Helen, that was the way of life, to be blind, deaf and mute. These two people have had the gift of sight for many years, there's a big difference in having something and losing it to never have experienced it. If that had happened to me, I would want the same as these two brave people.
Helen Adams Keller was born on June 27, 1880 in Tuscumbia, Alabama. In 1882, she fell ill and was struck blind, deaf and mute
Real Truth Seeker - Remind me not to ask you to seek any truth for me. Your research skills need some work.
Ahh, Truth Sayer, Helen was blind, deaf and mute. She was a incredible individual, but, she did not know the world through anything but touch. I cannot imagine being deaf and then being blind, at the now early age of 45. I have no idea of how I would react.
Excuse me...but Helen Keller was blind and deaf... read the book or watch the movie "The Miracle Worker". Helen could speak...as a matter of fact, did a lot of public speaking. But, it was because of her teacher/helper Ann Sullivan, that she was able to function in the world.
Kuddo's to Belguim! I have no intentions of living if I am told I have a terminal illiness or cannot do for myself. NO ONE has the right to tell me I can't. We murder unborn children every day, of every month, of every yr. We think that is OK "it is a woman's RIGHT" yet grown men & women of sound mind do not have that same RIGHT !!!
Spiter01 as a pro-choice person I would love to argue your choice of 'murder' but that was not the point you were trying to make. I actually agree with your point, an adult of sound mind should have the right to terminate their life, and they should be able to do it peacefully using approriate drugs prescribed by a physician. At the same time physicians, nurses, and pharmacists should also have the right to excercise their moral code and assist or not.
have the courage to die, why not have the courage to live?
It is good that Belgium has the laws to allow people to make such choices. Not every nation offers such an option; however, one night I watched a program on television about a man who had ALS (aka Lou Gehrig's Disease) who had to go to Switzerland to end his life on his own terms.
An organization called Dignitas in Switzerland is available to help people when people wish assisted suicide. According to Swiss law, no person who aids and abets in an assisted suicide will be prosecuted if they are not motivated by self-interest.
There is a rigorous process to go through before acceptance. The first step for those who seek an end to their life is to meet with a variety of Dignitas personnel, as well as an independent doctor, for a private consultation. The evidence provided by the person is then assessed. Then they must again meet with the doctor, on two separate occasions, with a time gap in between and they are also required to sign an affidavit which has to be be countersigned by independent witnesses. Where a person is not physically able to sign, a video must be provided.
Always, a short time before the lethal overdose is provided, the person is reminded that taking the overdose will result in their death. The person is encouraged to take an out if they so desire and they are asked over and over again during the process if they still want to proceed, or to stop and take more time to consider the implications of what they are about to do. This is important as it offers the person several opportunities to halt the process. Dignitas videotapes the procedure and when it's all over, must by law notify the police about what has occurred.
If you ever witnessed what happens to people with a disease like ALS you would understand why someone would want to end their own life. It's important for people who are terminally ill to have the right to choose to end their own life on their own terms.
There are ways to check out without having to go through an interview or fly to Belgium or Switzerland.
Yes, but there are very few ways that are relatively certain, are accessible to those with major mobility or visual impairments, and do not involve agonizing pain or take long enough to put your loved ones at risk of being prosecuted for failing to stop you. You can shoot yourself, but some people don't or can't own guns (which may get harder in future - and once you're bedridden, you can't go get one), or don't want to leave a big mess for their loved ones to clean up. To get potent drugs you have to have a cooperative doctor as well as cooperative family. Dying Romans used to refuse food and water to speed things up - but it takes at least several days, during which unsympathetic people in your life could have you forcibly hospitalized, and sympathetic family members in fundamentalist jurisdictions risk being prosecuted for not doing so. My spouse and I have a .38 caliber long-term care plan - but it would be nice if we didn't have to use it. It so happens that I am not a Christian, but even if I were, I would not believe in a God who demanded that I suffer as much and as long as possible.
We recently had a very ill person (Marine veteran from WWII) kill himself after a long-term illness/infection; it took him about two or three days to die after he shot himself. So remember that it is incredibly easy to shoot yourself and not die, either right away or at all. Before you think you've got the answer all sewn up with your firearms, realize that guns are not the sure-fire exit out of this world that you might think they are--nor is anything else, outside of death-row inmate injections.
And isn't it funny that those on death row get a more dignified exit out of this world than those who are suffering?
That being said, I find it incredibly selfish of those who are protesting the twins' choice of departure. If their lives were so important to you, would YOU have been able to give up everything that you have in order to be with them, day and night, to help them out? To give up any and all time with your family and friends in order to assist them in their daily needs? Then why would you demand that of anyone else in their lives--from their family or friends? Certainly these men refused to be greedy and demanding of other people's time and attentions. Unable to care for themselves and secure in their love for one another, they chose to exit together. That is far more noble of a decision than begging, pleading or cajoling a person to extend their life just to make someone else feel better.
Well, yes, that's the other reason to prefer euthanasia to firearms, if the former is available. I would prefer firearms to the usual lethal injection protocol, though. The only reason to give a paralyzing drug is to hide the fact if the sedative doesn't really render the person unconscious and they die in agony. I just want a jacked-up dosage of whatever the vet gives a dog or cat. One shot and you go peacefully in your loved one's arms. Practically ideal.
These gentlemen made the correct decision based on what they knew and felt.
Now, if they had previously read "Johnny Got His Gun" or seen the movie (about a young man who after a bomb exploded near him, lost both arms and legs, face, sight, hearing, unable to talk) they might had chosen differently. Despite his condition Johnny learned to communicate by tapping his head against a surface his thoughts using Morse code. Upon this discovery Johnny wanted to go into society to communicate with people. But the kicker was what Johnny wanted to do was against the Army's policy.
Please correct my recollection of the story as you see fit.
Dalton Trumbo,I beleive! Read the story in college! Left a lasting impression on me about war,especially the first world war,which my father fought in for 3.5 years,and survived!
Darkness imprisoning me
All that I see
Absolute horror
I cannot live
I cannot die
Trapped in myself
Body my holding cell
Landmine has taken my sight
Taken my speech
Taken my hearing
Taken my arms
Taken my legs
Taken my soul
Left me with life in hell
Damn Mifo - Metallica rocked back then