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American Atheists
The chapel at U.S. Forward Operating Base Orgun-E, Afghanistan with its makeshift steeple and cross on Jan. 19, 2013
U.S. military commanders in Afghanistan on Thursday ordered the removal of a steeple and crucifix erected over a remote American base in the Muslim country after a soldier deployed there noted that the symbols violated Army regulations, and could reinforce suspicions that the United States is fighting a holy war.
It is unclear how long ago the Christian symbols at the chapel at Forward Operating Base Orgun-E had been in place. In terms of religious displays, they are hardly ostentatious — a cross on a small rooftop steeple and cross-shaped windows in the doors. But Sgt. Joel Muhlnickel was alarmed by the symbolism at Orgun-E, especially the cross that rises up over the rooftops at the base.
"When I think of an army sporting a Christian cross, I think Crusades," Muhlnickel wrote on Facebook from Orgun — a message that was forwarded to NBC News by a third party. "Neither my country nor my army force me to swear allegiance to Odin, Jesus, Buddha or Horus. Freedom from religious oppression is pretty much the reason why the United States was founded."
"It is the sort of thing that provides a boundless bonanza of terrorist propaganda for the mujahedeen, the insurrectionists, the Taliban and al-Qaida that we are supposedly fighting to protect our national security," said Mikey Weinstein, founder and president of the non-profit Military Religious Freedom Foundation. "The message of the cross on the chapel is basically putting out the message in Pashto, Dari and Arabic to please blow me up because I'm a latter day Christian crusader."
The U.S. military provides chapels for troops around the world and has thousands of chaplains deployed — the majority of them Christian, while there are also Jewish, Muslim and other faith leaders.
Chapels are set up even in outposts as far-flung as Orgun-E.
But Army regulations state that these facilities — usually nondescript temporary structures — are to be neutral gathering spaces, not dedicated to any one faith, except when being used for a specific worship service. Portable symbols, icons or statues can be used during religious services, but then must be removed or covered up for others who use the space.
"In general the chapels have to be ecumenical so they can be converted from one religion to another," said Elizabeth Hillman, professor of law at University of California Hastings College of Law and President of the National Institute of Military Justice. "To create permanent structures that evoke one particular religion — that is problematic.
"I would think that anything that would increase the vulnerability of a forward operating base is a problematic," Hillman added.
American Atheists
The chapel at Forward Operating Base Orgun-E, Afghanistan on Jan. 19, 2013. Military command has ordered the crosses to be boarded over until the facility can get new doors, to restore the chapel's religious neutrality.
Muhlnickel raised his concerns through his chain of command, and then — unconvinced that it would result in action — turned to outside organizations, including the nonprofit American Atheists.
"Chaplains know the regulations very well," said Justin Griffith, an Army sergeant at Fort Bragg, N.C., and military director for American Atheists in his personal time. "Whoever authorized (the steeple and crosses) knew exactly what they were doing. It's intentionally disrespectful to the non-Christians in the U.S. military ... Put it in Afghanistan, the danger is very real, to personnel, even to Christians."
The Army, contacted by NBC on Tuesday morning, responded to queries Wednesday afternoon, saying the cross had been removed and boards had been placed over the cross-shaped windows while the base ordered new doors.
"The local command in Afghanistan is aware of this chapel and has taken appropriate action to ensure that it is changed into a neutral facility," said a statement from an Army Spokesman at the Pentagon.
Hours later, Orgun command sent out a memo throughout the base explaining that the chapel was to be brought into compliance by eliminating the crosses, and assuring soldiers that it would be handled in a respectful manner.
Griffith, an atheist who often calls out practices that he believes cross the line from the free exercise of religion to unconstitutional proselytizing or discrimination, has learned that his views are unpopular with many in the military. He's concerned about Muhlnickel suffering reprisal.
"Sgt. Muhlnickel’s efforts just put the pin back in the grenade," said Griffith. "The military now needs to protect him from any backlash ... and not punish him for speaking out against the dangerous 'crusader' symbolism."
In similar situations that have come to light, military commanders have ordered the removal of the religious symbols. In April 2012, when a Marine Corps squadron revived the "Crusaders" name with the shield and cross logo for fighter jets, the Military Religious Freedom Foundation challenged the move, citing constitutional and security concerns. The next month, the Marine Corps said that the squadron had converted back to the moniker "Werewolves," replacing the logos from the jets, uniforms, buildings and elsewhere.
A chapel at Camp Marmal, another U.S. base in northern Afghanistan, was ordered to remove a large cross from its chapel after complaints, Politico reported. A spokesman from the Pentagon agreed that the Camp Marmal cross had violated Army regulations.
In Afghanistan, where the population is more than 99 percent Muslim, the tiny Christian population worships in secret, out of fear of attack by extremist Muslims. Christian evangelism is illegal in the country, and foreigners suspected of spreading Christian teachings have been deported by the government, and attacked and kidnapped by extremists.
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Outrage, calls for action over anti-Muslim materials in military training
West Point cadet quits, cites 'criminal' behavior of officers
Leave a Comment:
And they wonder why people don't want to stay in and the suicide rate is SO high!!
So your saying that even though the Chapel is still there and they can still have their services they will have higher suicide rates just because a cross isn't on the roof and doors???
No I'm saying all the PC garbage that is being shoved down the troops throats is unnecessary stress and is detrimental to morale ED!
Hogwash, Baylor. The 'chapel' is for ALL denominations. Not just one sect. And if a soldier has to have a cross to keep up his moral, I suggest he get a necklace of some sort....or wear it with his dogtags.
NO not HOGWASH just calling out BS when I see it!
BS is thinking that a soldier endures stress and has poor moral because there isn't a steeple on a tent, or a cross on a door. If said soldier is that dependent on 'symbols of faith' - he probably needs to go home.
NO BS is always trying to appease a certain minority who don't believe in what you believe but they are certain and hell bent on taking away things from the majority and when it doesn't go there way yell sexism, discrimination, violation of civil rights. It all ads up and people can only take so much the hypocrisy and PC correctness that's in the ranks does destroy morale.
And you know their is a christian majority at that site ...how???? It really does sound like YOU are on a crusade yourself.
Did you even read the article before making your comment, Baylor14? It has very little to do with "PC" and more to do with displaying christian symbols in a muslim country where we're trying to win hearts and minds. It's also a significant security concern in a country where attacks against non-muslims is par for the course.
Also, Ed has it nailed. Service members still have the ability to worship as they want in this structure and every denomination is welcome, with none excluded or turned off by another faith's symbols. There is already an over-representation of the christian faith within the chaplaincy. There shouldn't be anything designating the building as such, too.
As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen (Muslims),—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan (Mohammedan) nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.
Baylor14, nobody is trying appease any 'certain' minority. If you didn't already know, atheists aren't well liked in the United States. This is a matter of ensuring equality across the board and protecting our troops and homeland from religious reprisals.
Baylor, this country has freedom of religion enshrined in the First Amendment. In addition, it goes against ALL Military regulations to turn a chapel into a "one religion only" building BECAUSE of the First Amendment. You, sir are full of that BS you are talking about. The Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist or Wiccan soldier is JUST as entitled to their faith as the Christian one is. If you don't like it ... THERE'S THE DOOR. Please don't let it hit you where Nature split you. On second thought, please LET it hit you there.
You have obviously never served a single day - even as a military dependent (who serve along side their service member in other ways). You're just a civilian who thinks that he's got all the right answers because they're right to HIM. Fortunately, we don't have to listen only to the crap spewed out by the hysterical Christian hypocrites.
Oh I'm sorry Baylor. I thought that our armed forces were filled with motivated inspired men and women. Not little cry baby cowards who need a symbol in sight to be brave or happy......
People are trying to appease certain minorities all the time for various reason's to be politically correct or some politicians want some votes. As for reprisals overseas I have been there done that we have the United states flag hung over the wall at our Cop I when I was deployed and we had no fear of reprisal's from the insurgents but as time went on we had the host nation colors shown also to indicate we were a partnered force.
@Cat wow military dependent you know it all!
Baylor, like it or not... The US is not a "majority rule" country where the "majority" get everything their way and the minority just has to bend over and take it. Unlike nations such as Afghanistan and Iran, we believe in equal rights for all not just some and not just for the "majority".
@ Benjamin you making me laugh!
Baylor - Get a clue, and while you're at it learn some English grammar, spelling and punctuation. If you want to live in a theocracy, I suggest you move to Iran. What you apparently think (actually, believe, as thought does not appear to have been involved) is contrary to the Constitution and the principles upon which this country was founded.
And, Baylor, you make my head hurt...
@Educated thinker who gave you that name?
Baylor:
The cross was taken down because its a safety issue and its also to try to prevent the Afghan's from believing that we are over there to spread Christianity. An image of the cross at the base could be effective anti American propaganda. I don't see how this is hard for you to understand. Its not about being politically correct, its about not being stupid and unnecessarily risking our troops.
I can't believe there are those who think they can do whatever they want in another country. We have to abide by the rules and laws of that country no matter wither we like it or not. I;m tired of us trying to impose our religious beliefs on others, even here in our own country religion is rammed down our throats and if anyone did some research they would know that almost all wars have been religious based. We don't even tolerate those of a difference religion or have no religion in our own country so who are we to tell other countries what they can and can't do. Take the cross and staple down and show respect for country you are in.
Winker - Believe it. Unfortunately there are many like Baylor who haven't got the foggiest idea about what makes this country special and great, and most of them never will. So sad.
What have you done for the war effort educated thinker?
Baylor - I will respond to your one question, and then ignore you as you as you are simply not worth my time. USNA Class of 1979 ("Omnes Viri"), now retired.
Likewise
Yeah, I am sure the 18 month deployments, record divorce rates, extremely high injury and casualty rate, collateral damage, and stresses involved in operating in an urban environment are not responsible for the suicides....it has to be the political correctness stresses. I know that last time I was surrounded by a bunch of enlisted soldiers that being politically correct and mindful of the feelings of others was at the forefront of their concerns. In fact I am sure that if you were to poll all active soldiers they would say their major reason for considering suicide was that they are worried that they might offend someone's beliefs. This is not about the individual soldier, this is about a hierarchical structure that imposes a belief structure and shows favoritism towards a religious belief. This is not about negating the individual soldier's beliefs or ridiculing their religious idealism, it is about ensuring that the government institution is devoid of favoritism, and evangelism. Any atheist that has served would say, anyone worth anything that is, that it is not about limiting a religious ideal, it is about ensuring that those ideals are not shoved down our throats. This is another example of the INSTITUTION of the US Military showing favoritism towards a religious belief, in direct violation of everything we stand for and in direct violation of the ideals that many soldiers have died defending. We are not combating a belief, we are exposing the hypocrisy of the supposed defenders of democracy.
@Baylor - Give it a rest. Why do you want to have the last word? You are really not winning this discussion, except perhaps in your own mind.
@Henry get a life instead of jumping on the band wagon.
Baylor, I cry BS on your claim of military service. Pure and simple. I come from a family that has a LONG and PROUD military heritage. Or maybe you tried to cut it in the Navy but never graduated and never served because the Navy realized that you were incapable of conduct becoming a service member. Otherwise you would KNOW that chapels in military camps in theater can't have ANY permanent symbols of faith.
Divegeeky - Extremely well said! Thank you!
I think we should have chapels and crosses all over the place if we want to. Muslims have their churches on this land, and we are there because they attacked us on our land, so we shouldn't have to change our expression of religion for them, because they haven't changed their expression of hatred for us. F 'em.
This bending over backwards for political correctness is BS. We're not on vacation over there, we're not visiting tourists. Soldiers should have the right to be proud of their religion and express it( whichever one it is) if they practice it.
save the environment - Who is "we"? You said, "we should have chapels and crosses all over the place if we want to." If you mean Americans then what makes you think you get to decided what we want. If you mean Christians then you are just proving that you need to be controlled so as not to trample over everyone around you.
Stupid is as stupid does, might as well erect a sign saying, "In your face, rag heads"
Hope the FBI finds YOU, dewey.
A lot to do about nothing. Those that FEAR THE CROSS are just downright stupid and lack any form of Intelligence. Muslims can display their symbols, Hindus theirs, Jews theirs, but the Cross is not acceptable. The Cross is a symbol of Religion not a particular religion. It's like a Yield Sign on a highway, or the Symbol of Disaster Relief (Red Cross). Ellis - your life is pretty pathetic if all you have to do is go around and look for things to complain about. My guess is that you will accept any other Religious symbol EXCEPT the Cross-because you have little or no idea what a Cross symbolizes. You are free to move to any non-Christian Nation (if you can find one) even Russia, China, Japan, Cuba, etc. allow the Cross. Better yet, get your kind and buy an Island and go stick you head in the sand. When the floods come and destroy your island, you will be happy to see the Cross come and rescue your pathetic being but in the mean time mind your own business and don't look at the Cross if you Fear the Cross.
Hey deweydan, I hope he finds a bullet also and spends a moment scratching deweydan on it! That would be curiously appropriate as he is fighting enemies of the United States.
JoeB, There are a great many people that feel worshipping a cross is the ignorant aspect, they fear it not. Your belief that it should be shoved into everyones face is the problem and not the other way around.
JoeB, I must convey when you mention your cross and that Ellis doesn't know what it symbolizes is odd. Everyone knows it is a device for execution sort of like having a cute little gallows pendant around your neck although the cross is Pagan. No, it does not symbolize religion, it represents a stolen symbol for a specific religion and I fear that somehow you visualize it as a living being marching across the land like the hammers in Pink Floyds the Wall....dum dum dum dum!
I have an Idea, why don't all the Christians in the Military serve their time and then get out, all other Christians stop enlisting and leave the fighting and defending this country to the Atheist. Since the the percentage of Atheist in this country is only 2% and Christians are over 85% , I don't think the Military will be very powerful anymore.Take your cross and go home.Leave protecting this country to the Non Believers.
Deweydan, I dare you to death wish a US Servicemember to the face of another Servicemember.
We may not all agree with each other, but we will always defend our own.
Get out. Your ilk do not deserve our defense.
Some people commenting here today are nothin but fools! the majority of the soldiers serving are there for the paycheck, some are there cause they truly want to serve their Country not their religion! No one says to themselves, how can i serve god better and help spread his word, i know ill go kill people halfway across the world and then fly my cross for all to see....
on another note for the extremists of my christian faith, the second commandment clearly states that you are not supposed to have idols(the cross) or hold them in such high praise as u do.
“‘You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth." -God-
Dear Thepasserby,
You are right, I don't get to decide for "we". It is just my opinion, which I am entitled to express.
This being said people are also entitled to their spiritual needs, mostly far away from home, without shame for it. They could have Church row on each army base it wouldn't bother me the least bit, actually I think it would be a good idea. A one stop shopping for spirituality with a building for each faith, with an orange fluorescent symbol on top of it too. You can remain unaffiliated if you please.
If we are "fighting" to please the enemy, then we lack the will to be there. Why don't we establish that the only permissible religious faith is the Muslim faith as long as we are at it? Like we was ashamed of the other ones?
I think all religions are good, including the Muslim one. I think they all encourage respect for self and others. The evil interpretations of any faith for extremism purpose is all that it is: evil.
What spiritual needs is a person entitled to that they don't already possess? Can you not pray without a building dedicated to your faith? Yes. That can never be taken away. Why you think every religion is "entitled" to have a building of their own to pray in, provided by our government, is beyond me. If we provide a building for some then we have to erect a building for each and every religion out there, which is currently quite a large number. You would prefer our military spend money on that than protecting our troops?
In this case there is one multi-use building for all religions to share and yet it was adorned with the trappings of the Christian faith. How is that fair and right? To me that sounds like an endorsement of Christianity by our government, to the Muslims who's country we are currently occupying it only strengthens their resolve against us.
And we aren't "fighting" to please the enemy. The action to take down the cross was due to maintaining our countries values, not someone else's. That is why they are not allowed. It just so happens that in this case putting up a cross for all to see is not only wrong, but stupid.
In this case the cross and other Christian trappings (cross-shaped door cutouts, etc) were ILLEGAL. They were prohibited by military regulations. "environment", your spiritual needs don't include waving your religion around in public like a penis in everyone's face. Nobody wants to see it, and you're going to annoy a lot of people by doing it.
@joe-904290
I'm not sure where you got your figures, but the percentage of atheists in the U.S. is approximately 19%. The percentage of atheists under 30 (about 80% of the military population) is 33%.
So any time you Christians want to get out and leave the fighting to us atheists, please do so. We don't need you.
MC Gusto banned, rereg of multiple accounter would-I-lie.
deweydan banned for death wishing.
It is a holy war for many soldiers, which is sad.
Since the Sgt has no religion, he must not mind the rape, murder and theft going on in Afghanistan.
Your right Atheists are monsters who only kill,rape and maim people, not regular kind helping people who just don't believe in a god...Get your head out of your ass please.
OK, why do you have to have relgion in order to have morals. I am doing perfectly fine without religion, and I pay my share of taxes and help create jobs and feel I am a good person.
I hear that athiests sacrifice babies at midnight.
Muslims hate atheist worse than Jews or Christians.
Imagine, they have millions of people and zero atheists.
Sounds like Iran, Millions of people and not a single one is gay.
Truth is Iran has a million gay men and every one of them is scared to death of being stoned to death.
God is great huh?
Let's just kiss their ass and try not to offend the most offensive people in the world.
Vermount. Do you run an all night abortion clinic?
You must have piles of blood money.
MC Gusto - If he did run an all night abortion clinic it would be filled with Christian women. Funny how that works.
You got facts to back that up?
Yeah, the Guttmacher Institute.
More than seven in 10 U.S. women obtaining an abortion report a religious affiliation (37% protestant, 28% Catholic and 7% other), and 25% attend religious services at least once a month.[38] The abortion rate for protestant women is 15 per 1,000 women, while Catholic women have a slightly higher rate, 22 per 1,000.[32]
Seems like those numbers are a normal cross section of society..
No higher. no lower.
I wonder if the doctors doing the abortions are also 70% Christian.
I would imagine that most doctors are not Christian. They seem too smart. We all know the large majority of scientists aren't. There's a pattern forming here...
Sure, passerby, never mind that George Tiller was murdered IN CHURCH during services.
Anti-religion is not anti-God.
Albert Einstein and several of the framers of the US Constitution, including Thomas Jefferson, were Theist or Deist, believers in a supreme entity (god), but not Biblical scriptures, pregnant virgins or talking serpents....That is why you will find references to God on federal documents, the Declaration of Independence and on American currency, but nary a mention of Jesus or Christianity
Albert Einstein, born to a Jewish family, once said, "If there is an evil upon this earth, it is religion, a political establishment which adheres to childish myths of demons and heroes, a political establishment which commands obedience for fear of the otherwise"
Albert Einstein is not recognized as the voice of Theology. At best he might advocate for I.D. today.
As for separating the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob from Jesus Christ and the Bible; not possible.
There is ample documentation to support the effect of 18th century Protestant Evangelicals on the culture,the Declaration of Independence, the Revolution, the victory over England, and the formation of the outrageously brilliant American Constitution and government.
People that believe America was formed to be a secular humanist "light on a hill" are delusional.
No, no, no, no vermontguy. That is absolutely not true.
The time is 2AM, not midnight.
Only to people who refuse to believe the words of the Founding Fathers throughout their lives, or are ignorant of the reasons for so many of the original immigrants for coming to the Americas.
Religion does not have a monopoly on moralism. Your statement is a non-sequitur.
Seems the CO of that place needs to have his butt kicked up over his shoulders. I would find it hard to believe that he had not seen it nor aware of the rules. These guys aren't idiots. Their commissions weren't handed out like e-tickets at Disneyland. He has done his troops a disservice by endangering their mission.
For gawd's sake, what the hell is the matter with that CO. He outta be busted down to private.
Real men & forward thinkers, refuse to ride the PC train.
Following Army regulations is PC now? I thought they were just the rules.
I guess "real men" are also willing to expose their servicemembers to increased risk of attack and death too?
Please get a clue as to reality. The regulations exist for a reason well beyond being PC.
It's sad when a person sticks their neck out to defend our country and our constitution and then is ridiculed by the same group who insists they are the most patriotic. The ones who wish to have their religion held up above all others for some reason can't realize that the Separation of Church and State is a protection of religion. I suppose there is a comfort in being in the Christian majority, but I'm sure they would be praying and screaming for equal treatment if they were in the minority.
It's not a holy war unless we are forcing people to accept Christianity under the threat of death. Kinda like muslims do.
Yeah, in the states the Christians just force people to accept under the threat of burning in hell for all of eternity. I guess that can be called a step up
It's an unholy war.
The threat of death as well as carrying it out was implemented with some success for a while, doesn't history suck! Those that truly beleive in imposing that cross is the right thing to do should make the staement in a permanent way, tatoo it on their forehead for all to see, then venture out. Stand firm on your beliefs.
I'm extremely relieved that the Pentagon responded to American Atheists demands so quickly. It's sad that sometimes, 'do the right thing' only applies when the media is paying attention.
Protection needs to come from the very top on this, NOW. Exposing this and allowing the US Military the chance to write the narrative was the right thing to do. It denies the chance for our enemies to control the story. This was effectively the only 'church' in the country outside of the one for foreign diplomats in Kabul. It was a time-bomb.
Thank you, Sgt. Muhlnickel!
Thank you, too, Justin, for pursuing this.
That has been the legacy of Christianity for centuries----"Christianity or Death"-----there are people today who would like to resurrect that!!
I can honestly say that my moral is effected by repetitive religious propaganda. It's hard enough having to listen to the long prayers at first formation and during military formal functions. I don't care if Xtians want to display their religious symbols in their own homes and on private property, but a military base is a government instillation and such religious displays endanger soldiers serving in that part of the country.
You have any problem with Obama swearing an oath on the Bible?
Or do you just hate all Christians except Harry Reid, Pelosi, Biden and Barack?
Every election cycle they take up religion.
Actually, the fight for religious separation of church and state has been going on for many years. It's probably that you, MC Gusto, have just now been made aware of it because of the Obama Bible fiasco. We don't hate Christians, we just demand equal treatment, and we are no longer going to sit on the sidelines.
Divide & Conquer! Military fighting against each other!
I didn't hear about an Obama Bible fiasco.
I heard the National Anthem was Lip synced.
What happened with the Bible?
Did his skin burn when he touched it?
Zheng He Oh, okay. Well, in that case, for the sake of unity, the minorities should bend over and take it from here on out!
MC Gusto He swore on two. Duh.
Any ways,,,,,,,,,,,,, Thank you Megan. Good luck to you.
Are you in America?
Megan, I was in full football mode all weekend.
I'm pretty burnt on politics but closely follow world affairs.
I Did hear he was using Lincoln's Bible but that's it.
He used Lincoln's and MLKs. If he likes it, I love it, but it's a silly practice that I wish would go away. I wish he had sworn on a stack of comic books just to see the religious zealots' heads explode.
Obama can swear on whatever he wants. Oaths are personal, they should always be sworn or affirmed on whatever the person holds important.
But it is not require that anyone swear on any religion in any office in the US, including the military. I affirmed, I did not swear.
Its unfortunate he didn't swear on the Constitution. It is far more important than the Bible for the United States.
I myself am a Christian, and I agree that the chapel should remain symbolically neutral in nature for the use of other religious groups. Making a move like this will only worsen relations with religious and non-religious groups on the base.
No foxhole atheists!
That'll be a surprise to the many of us who have served and those still serving.
No foxhole Christians either.
No foxhole heterosexuals.
No foxhole homosexuals.
No foxhole men.
No foxhole women.
Only servicemembers.
Anyone who has served knows that.
The soldier is legally right and the cross will be taken down but he still sounds like a major tool.
Hey,,, what year are we gonna get out of that hell hole?
Why do they keep sending over fresh soldiers?
Take the cross down, take the tent down, take the whole damn base down an let's get the f u c k out of there.
The real tools are the ones who violated regulations and put the cross up, and those who ignorantly defend it.
We do not belong there.
Holy war is a front for the real war which is for their trillions in natural resources.
War is always about money no matter how they try to spin it.
Finally, a post that gets it right!
"Naturally the common people don't want war: Neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, IT IS THE LEADERS of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is TELL THEM THEY ARE BEING ATTACKED, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. IT WORKS THE SAME IN ANY COUNTRY."
--Hermann Goering prior to the Nuremberg Trials
Not all, but too many of the American people fall for the "He's killing his own people", and "They just want Democracy." No, it's all about money! Think for a moment, a leader gets up one morning & say, I'm bored, I think I'll start killing my own people, knowing when I do this, America and its NATO yes men, will destroy the country with cruise missles and anything else they feel like using.
Oh why do we remain in this forsaken country, kissing their assses because of their religion? Our soldiers have a right to practice their own and if a symbol is erected as part of that faith then tough cookies. Otherwise, a better ideamight be to move them out of this cess pool and call it "mission accomplished" as bin laden has become fish food.
These soldiers are not in their country. The people of this country have the final say...not foreigners. Do you want foreigners to come into this country (USA) and tell us what do do and what to believe? If Jesus is God and creator of the world, why didn't He travel around the world and tell everyone? He is God. He is the one dividing people into believers and nonbelievers, not humans.
The 1st amendment is #1 for a reason.
The first requirement of fighting for your country ought to be a requirement that you actually understand the basic premises of our country. We are not Xian. We have religious freedom. Xians have no right to put that stuff on government-owned property at home or abroad. Its not just a matter of safety in a foreign country, it's a matter of having respect for your own.
Supporting these Xian symbols on government property is incredibly disrespectful to the great United States of America.
.
I'm glad that many off the commenters here are not actually in the military
I find it sad how many of them are given credence despite that fact.
-Capt, USAF AD
You look oddly familiar. Were you at Tyndall, 2006?
Well said, Megan.
-Capt, USA AD (currently in Afghanistan)
oops! looks like the end of the Red Cross.. Ouch!
The Red Cross is a secular medical, PROTECTED organization. It's different, and its' accepted by ROE and Law of War, and the Geneva convention as being protected. It's not going to infuriate the hostiles as much as seeing a cross on the top of a military instillation building. Get your facts straight; you're comparing apples to oranges.
Gah, civilians!
You can't talk crap about civilians! We are in the majority!
I'm offended when Red Cross workers must wear Red Cresent emblems when working in Muslim countries. lol, hahahahahahahahaha!!!!! The PC train roars down the tracks!!!
Zheng He, the Red Crescent has been around since the 1800s and has nothing to do with political correctness. It provides humanitarian assistance to those who are Muslims, recognizing that some Muslims may not want to receive anything from someone wearing a cross, given the whole Crusades and all. Either you know that and are a liar or you don't know that and are talking our of your arse. Which one is it?
The Red Cross doesn't operate in Muslim countries, they are the Red Crescent there.
So many people commenting here on issues they know nothing about, ill informed. Some very un-Christian Christians too! Jesus wept.
What the military higher command did was "mature, fair, sensible and highly professional". I admire Griffith and Muhlnickle for speaking up, standing up for their rights and views, and seeing the problems of public religious symbolisms as "provocation" that could be better avoided in sensitive areas and turbulent environments. If this is not possible then what would be different between the diverse and tolerant USA and the intolerant and homogenous societies where they kill their own moderates. Proud of you guys!
Bring the troops home.
I really thought the military was smarter than that. I guess I was wrong.
It is a holy war. They want christians dead. Americans just happen to mostly be christians. Do you think that all of the sudden Allah the bomber is gonna give you all a pass? get real.
To be fair they want everyone but their specific brand of Islam dead.
Been to a lot of Military bases some overseas, They all had a chapel and there was a cross on the top or the front. Nobody seemed to mind?
Ok then get rid of chapels on a military posts, they are religious and there should be separation between religion and the military. Do we get rid of Military Chaplin's as well?
yes, if this is to create more hatred and contraversy.... the world does not need any of it.
Ban Bibles.
Ban Last Rights to soldiers?
How does a Chaplin create Hatred and Controversy?
Yes, abolish military chaplaincy. Allow private citizens to fill those positions. Churches should also lose their tax exempt status. Feel free to practice your religion, but not on my dollar.
Unions are NPO. I don't believe in them nor would I ever belong to one but the Government grants them NPO.
Private Chaplin paid for by the Military?
Hmm yeah, I take that back. Get rid of them altogether. A soldier doesn't need a chaplain to pray or worship, and there are other people who can take the place of "someone to talk to." Even allow people to have religious services on base, but why get in the business of training and regulating a chaplaincy anyways? It's unnecessary.
Plus, what happens when some fringe religious group (or, gasp, a Muslim) receives special consideration due to their religious beliefs and the military has to deal with all the calls of racism and so on because they don't give it to them. Or what if they do give it to them? What would the Christians say?
Get rid of them all. It's much less complicated and state will have made a solid step towards distancing itself from church.
Chaplains are trained to act in non-denominational roles within the Chapel, including providing counseling services secularly. The symbol on a Chaplain's breast merely shows where they earned their religious training. Last Rites are a personal and private matter. These structural crosses are not.
A Chaplain who turns away a single servicemember for their religious beliefs (or lack thereof) has disgraced the uniform and service.
I agree; get rid of chaplains in the military.
but the Muslims can do it. the christians can't. that don't sound like religious freedom to me.
Not on a military building they can't. Not in the US Military.
Putting that crucifix and steeple up is fanning the flames in a country that would like to see us exit soon.What was this person thinking?We are not in Afghanistan as the a religious organization trying to convert people.We are supposed to be there wiping out the Taliban.It seems to me that we are really there to protect the Afghan poppy growers so that they don't have to share their profits from their crops with the Taliban.
The only flame that was fanned, was one American soldier, that was probably educated in an American Politically Correct school.
Rumor has it, "Steeple" in the local Pashto dialect loosely translates to "Mortar Target".