E-mail updates
Follow on Twitter
Subscribe to RSSA state of emergency is imposed on three cities in Egypt as a top military official warns the country is on the brink of collapse following days of anti-government protests. NBCNews.com's Dara Brown reports.
The struggle between political forces in Egypt could “lead to the collapse of the state,” the country’s army chief said Tuesday.
In a posting to the army’s Facebook page, General Abdel Fattah al-Sisi said political and economic issues now represented a “real threat” to security.
"The continuation of the struggle of the different political forces ... over the management of state affairs could lead to the collapse of the state," General Abdel Fattah al-Sisi said.
He added that the army would remain "the solid and the cohesive block" on which "the foundation of the state rests."
Al-Sisi, who is also defense minister, also said that the army had been deployed in cities along the Suez Canal primarily to protect the key global trade link.
Islamist President Mohammed Morsi has imposed emergency rule in an attempt to end days of clashes that have left at least 52 people dead.
But Egyptian protesters defied an overnight curfew in restive towns along the Suez Canal, attacking police stations.
/
On the second anniversary of the uprising that toppled Hosni Mubarak, huge crowds take to the streets in five cities.
At least two men died Monday night or early Tuesday in fighting in the canal city of Port Said, the latest unrest in a wave of violence unleashed last week on the eve of the anniversary of the 2011 revolt that brought down autocrat Hosni Mubarak.
Cairo sky lit by flames
Political opponents spurned a call by Morsi for talks on Monday to try to end the violence. Instead, huge crowds of protesters took to the streets in Cairo and Alexandria, and in the three Suez Canal cities - Port Said, Ismailia and Suez - where Morsi imposed emergency rule and a curfew on Sunday.
"Down, down with Mohammed Morsi! Down, down with the state of emergency!" crowds shouted in Ismailia. In Cairo, flames lit up the night sky as protesters set vehicles ablaze.
The demonstrators accuse Mubarak's successor Morsi of betraying the two-year-old revolution. Morsi and his supporters accuse the protesters of seeking to overthrow Egypt's first ever democratically elected leader by undemocratic means.
Debris from days of unrest was strewn on the streets around Cairo's Tahrir Square, cauldron of the anti-Mubarak uprising.
Youths clambered over a burned-out police van. But unlike on previous mornings in the past few days, there was no early sign of renewed clashes with police.
In Port Said, men attacked police stations after dark. A security source said some police and troops were injured. A medical source said two men were killed and 12 injured in the clashes, including 10 with gunshot wounds.
"The people want to bring down the regime," crowds chanted in Alexandria. "Leave means go, and don't say no!"
Voters backed Islamists
Since Mubarak was toppled, Islamists have won two referendums, two parliamentary elections and a presidential vote.
But that legitimacy has been challenged by an opposition that accuses Morsi of imposing a new form of authoritarianism, and punctuated by repeated waves of unrest that have prevented a return to stability in the most populous Arab state.
Ed Giles / Getty Images
Protesters stand by a vehicle of the Central Security Forces that had been stolen then set alight during clashes near Tahrir Square in Cairo on Monday.
The political unrest in the Suez Canal cities has been exacerbated by street violence linked to death penalties imposed on soccer supporters convicted of involvement in stadium rioting in Port Said a year ago, which lead to the deaths of 74 people.
The president announced the emergency measures on television on Sunday. "The protection of the nation is the responsibility of everyone. We will confront any threat to its security with force and firmness within the remit of the law," Morsi said.
His demeanor infuriated his opponents, not least when he wagged a finger at the camera.
Some activists said Morsi's measures to try to impose control on the turbulent streets could backfire.
"Martial law, state of emergency and army arrests of civilians are not a solution to the crisis," said Ahmed Maher of the April 6 movement that helped galvanize the 2011 uprising. "All this will do is further provoke the youth. The solution has to be a political one that addresses the roots of the problem."
Related:
Thousands attend funerals in Port Said as Egypt's stability teeters
Analysis: Egyptians fear decades of Brotherhood rule
PhotoBlog: Baton-wielding police threaten protesters as Egypt's stability teeters
Leave a Comment:
Boy I hope those tanks and F-16's haven't been delivered yet. I hate to think they fell in to al-Qaida's hands. Oh, what was I thinking, we'll give them to them to support the Arab spring. Got support the radicals!
Hate to tell you that Egypt has had a large number of F16s and M1A1 MBTs for many years. Though it is funny that the vehicle in the lead photo is just a M113 APC, and not a tank.
PRAISE BE TO ALLAH! I am so PROUD of the anti-Morsi, anti-Muslim Brotherhood citizens of Egypt I could send them the F-16's and Abrams tanks! Allah Akbar !
Why throw off the bonds of one tyrant just to be enslaved by another elitist (so called "religious{) group of idiot, hateful fanatics! Go! Go! Go! Great Democratic and Secular Egyptians ! You are becoming a truly modern society !
Morsi is a Narcissist, just like O'Bama.....
What's the matter don't like the Obama installed "Democracy".
After US Ally President Mubarak warned of "Al Quada Like Activities" President Obama chopped all US Assistance, US Aid, US Funding and called US Ally President Mubarak a "Dictator".
US Ally Egypt was Strategic to Attacking US Ally Libya.
As the History:
President Obama's Failed Foreign Policies were seen by the Ayatollahs of Iran seeing the US negotiating from a position of US Defeat with the Ayatollahs of Iran increasing the Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran's Overt and Covert Activities against the US and US Allies.
Covertly the Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran's Special Forces, Quds, increased their training, arming, funding of the Millions of Holy Warriors of Islam at the Fundamentalist Islamic Autonomous Kurdistanis Region of Northern Iraq. Their Training was to Fight the US, and Overthrow the US Allies Established Governments (Asymmetric Warfare, Insurgency, and yes, that includes the use of inciting Civil Wars).
Overtly the Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran placed pressure on the US Ally Iraqis Government to get the US out or they would use the Iranian Military, Islamic Jihadists at Northern Iraq to Overthrow the US Ally Iraqis Government if they did not get the US out of Iraq, no more negotiations with President Obama nor SOS Clinton for the US to remain at the Islamic Shia Nation of Iraq. The US gets Kicked out of the Islamic Shia Nation of Iraq.
Iraq was Strategic for the Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran as to no longer be stuck between two US And US Allies Military Forces; no possible US and US Allies Military Forces interdicting the Activities of the Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran's Special Forces training arming and funding the Millions of Holy Warriors of Islam at the Fundamentalist Islamic Autonomous Kurdistanis Region of Northern Iraq. The Iraqis Oil that could have paid for the US And US Allies Liberation of Iraq was necessary for the continued support of their Allies, the Chinese and Russian Federation; this loss of the Iraqis Oil by the US and US Allies made the Libyan Oil of Strategic Importance to the US European Allies, President Obama is already outsmarted as the Fundamentalist Islamic Muslim Brotherhood, assisted by the Holy Warriors of Islam that were trained by Iran's Special Forces have Overthrown US Ally President Mubarak, and have started attacking US Ally Libya. Everytime US Ally President Gaddaffi attempting to fight the Holy Warriors of Islam, they go back over the Border into Egypt. Iraq was the start and the Key to start getting the US and US Allies out of the "Middle East", as it has been the longtime Strategic Goal of the Chinese and Russian Federation to get the US and US Allies out of their Backyards (Resources), the Chinese and Russian Federation using the Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran as their "Proxy Fighters" the Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran using the millions of Holy Warriors of Islam as their "Proxy Fighters" Worldwide (trained, armed, and funded at the Fundamentalist Islamic Autonomous Kurdistanis Region of Northern Iraq right on the Border of Iran).
Prior to the "Egyptian Revolution" the Fundamentalist Islamic Muslim Brotherhood had negotiated with the Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran for their Assistance. The Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran would get Strategic Access to the Suez Canal, bases closer to support the Hamas Warlords and the Army of Islam Gaza, bases closer to attack US Ally Israel, Mediterranean Ports (attack the US European Allies (the Crusaders). With the Support to the Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran, and the Holy Warriors of Islam that arrived previously as the "Peace Flotillas" from the Fundamentalist Islamic Autonomous Kurdistanis Region of Northern Iraq via Turkey, the Fundamentalist Islamic Muslim Brotherhood moves south from Alexandria Egypt to start demonstrations and Civil War to Overthrow US Ally President Mubarak.
The Holy Warriors of Islam must get the Decades worth of Weapons, Ammunition, Military Equipment, etc. at US Ally Libya especially the Hight Razma Libyan Military Depot at Benghazi to Attack the rest of Africa. So from Egypt they push to Benghazi Libya and start the Libyan Civil War from Benghazi.
As a US Ally President Gaddaffi reports "Increased Al Quada Activities" of Al Quada Saudi Arabia (AQ), Al Quada Islamic Maghreb (AQIM), Al Quada Syria (AQS), Al Quada Yemen (AQY), Hezbollah, Al Quada Arabian Peninsula (AQAP), the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG), etc., that have gone to Libya to Murder US Ally President Gaddaffi the Collaborator to the Christians, Jews, Unbelievers (in accordance with Islamic Law, "Collaborators Die a Horrible Murdering to Dwell In That Firey Place"). US Ally President Gaddaffi keeps reporting the "Increased Al Quada Activities" thru those channels set up by SOS Condeleezza Rice, many International Intelligence Agencies as well as the NATO Generals and Admirals are identifying the "Libyan Rebels" as Al Quada, .
US Ally President Gaddaffi sent this Libya Military to Fight the Holy Warriors of Islam, this is condemned by the Fundamentalist Islamic Arab League of Nations, that previously issued a Death Penalty Fatawa against US Ally President Gaddaffi the US And US Ally Collaborator, and now he is killing the Holy Warriors of Islam (as a Islamic Heretic). The Fundamentalist Islamic Arab League of Nations demand that US Ally President Gaddaffi be Overthrown. President Obama then chopped all US Funding, US Assistance and US Support and calls US Ally President Gaddaffi a "Dictator Killing His Own People".
President Obama then supports the "Libyan Rebels" of Al Quada Saudi Arabia (AQ), Al Quada Islamic Maghreb (AQIM), Al Quada Syria (AQS), Al Quada Yemen (AQY), Hezbollah, Al Quada Arabian Peninsula (AQAP), the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG), etc. to Overthrow US Ally President Gaddaffi. These Holy Warriors of Islam become Ansar Al Shariah to instate and protect Fundamentalist Islam at Libya.
The Libyan Islamic Fighting Group was previously killing US Military at Iraq, became the Libyan Government as fully supported and recognized by President Obama.
The Holy Warriors of Islam get the Decades worth of Weapons, Ammunition, Military Equipment, etc. at US Ally Libya especially the Hight Razma Libyan Military Depot at Benghazi to Attack the rest of Africa.
President Obama during his Reelection Campaign, Inflamed the over 1.5 Billion Islamic Believers Worldwide with his "Osama Bin Laden is Dead, GM is Alive".
In response the Islamic Believes say, "Obama, Obama, We Are All Osama", "Obama Declared War Against Islam".
The "Libyan Rebels" as Ansar Al Shariah plan the Attack of the US Consulate at Benghazi (close to where they are) to coincide with the Greatest Defeat of the Great Satan by their Holy Warrior of Islam Superstar Osama Bin Laden, 9/11.
General Ham, Commander US AFRICOM, was warning President Obama about the events at Egypt, Libya, etc.. During the Attacks and Violent Demonstrations at Libya, Egypt, etc. General Ham offers the US Military of US AFRICOMto rescue the US Citizens at Libya less than two hours away during the over 7 hour attack, support for the Egyptian Military, etc.. President Obama demands General Ham's Letter of Resignation and he go on Retirement. Just like President Obama previously did not want to hear the expert experienced advise of General McKiernan, General McChrystal, Secretary of Defense Gates, etc. and also demanded their Letters of Resignations.
While this is going on the Fundamentalist Islamic ShiaRepublic of Iran is pressuring Pakistan, Afghanistan, etc. to get the US and US Allies out. As without the US Military Logistics Support Bases at Pakistan, the United Nation's Mission Afghanistan can no longer be supported. Pakistan kicks the US Military Logistics Bases, MQ/RQ (Drone) Bases out of Pakistan. Unsupported the United Nations, US, NATO Military Forces must leave Afghanistan not later than 2014.
History: The British during the British Empire Era knew that Pakistan's Sea Ports, Logistics Bases, Khyber Pass were essential and manditory for any "British Adventures" at Landlocked Afghanistan.
Ever since the US Military Training Teams to US Ally Iraq during the Iran Iraq Wars, rotated to Operation Cyclone, we have been stopping the above from happening for decades; so now due to President Obama's Failed Foreign Policies everything we previously did (costing many of my superiors, peers, subordinates lives) for decades has been irreversibly and permanently lost in 4 years, as the Chinese, Russian Federation and Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran are building up their Military Forces to protect all their Gains from the US And US Allies Losses. Of the almost thousand of us that started as the US Military Training Teams to US Ally Iraq during the Iran Iraq Wars, rotated to Operation Cyclone till now there are only a few dozen of us left, that basically all those lives lost for nothing due to President Obama's F**k ups.
Good luck Generation X and Generation Y, this sh!t is what you voted for and wanted, YOU DEAL WITH YOUR MESS, winners know when to quit.
I wonder - is this a sign of things to come for this country. Obama help to put the Muslim brotherhood in place - knowing full well what was going to happen. Really makes you wonder - what are his plans for this country. All those that voted for him.....watch the news - absorb the events in Egypt...take it all in - this is your future with King Obama. Geez...you must be so proud.
what i find hilarious about this situation is how much americans supported the ousting of mubarak a few years back. just shows you that americans know nothing about the middle east. crime has gone up 300% now that the muslim brotherhood has taken over. BUT HEY, at least mubarak is gone and the egyptian people are free! (sarcasm). im gonna say it... I TOLD YOU SO!!
Abdel Fattah al-Sisi sounds like he has a real sense of duty. He puts international responsibility and commerce committments ahead of Islamic hegemony. The poor uneducated Egyptian outnumbers the educated Egypt and that is why a dubious organization like the "Brotherhood" can make such a power grab. I say we support Al-sisi. It's very rare that I would consider a military dictatorship as a better option for control...but in Egypt that may be the case.
Every country has their religious crazies, but the Muslim world has a volitile, bellicose religion and in Egypt the literal believers are at the controls. One of their primary capital industries, tourism, is tanking fast. People equate Islamists with the Luxor massacre of tourists, (unbelievers). Egypt is still interesting, but not 'Islamic state' Egypt.
Abdel Fattah al-Sisi is subtly expressing a greater mission in his vow to protect the Suez canal from the emerging chaos. I can only hope that better minds prvail in Egypt, but it appears that democracy cannot work in all cases.
then why do you support Obama Britney? Obama wanted to oust Mubarak. You are right...he knows NOTHING about the middle east! Do you REALLY want Morsi as your peace negotiator with the Palestinians?
I will ALWAYS stand with Israel.....Obama NEVER will
Did they REALLY think Morsi was any better? Given a choice of muslim brotherhood or muslim brotherhood, they really had no choice!
Barack Obama - Wearing his pants "easy access"
Such an idiot - sending fighter jets and hundreds of tanks to the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt - even after the $450 million he sent them last year - and after their people were throwing shoes and tomatoes at Hillary
We know who's driving this Crazy Clown Car - Barack with Chuckles Biden riding shotgun - and Hillary in the back seat reading the map for direction
"What difference at this point does it make?"
Attempting to govern with the caviot of "we didn't know" & "we didn't think about that"
Incompetence and failure - leading by excuses and using the Bush Band-Aid for cover - pathetic and sad
i have to ask the people supporting this clown obama, hows obamas unecessary war looking? africa will be ten times harder to secure then the middle east(remember, we had ALLIES egypt AND libya helping keep these nutcases from being able to retreat to africa and "hit and run" our guys over in iraq). africa is a much needed strategic land mass. so much for ALL our mens lives lost that you cry so much about,but don't REALLY CARE! it's bushes fault,right? morons. f@#king idiots!
The military needs to bring a coup in order to protect the citizens from the Muslims as they have done several times in Turkey in the past. But just to remove them from power is not enough. The religion needs to be reclassified as a a Cult and banned from the earth because of its written desire to bring destruction to all who oppose it. Like cancer, if not properly treated in the early stages of infection, it is fatal and will return.
Lazarus
You got to be kidding, Obama support the Muslim Brotherhood, the State Department already sent a letter to the Senator who request to halt those F-16. Obama is sending the F-16 anyway. Good job Hillary.
Here is a video link from Jay Sekulow about Obama giving eqypt 200 tanks and these F 16's
http://aclj.org/us-giving-f16-muslim-brotherhood-egypt-sekulow
It makes me sick that MY TAX paying dollars are going towards weapons that will be killing our allies, and even our own men.
@SSGirl
ROFLMFAO
Is that what FAUX told you last night? or was it this morning during FAUX and 3 girlfriends?
President Obama did NOTHING to involve us in Egypt's afairs. The Brotherhood was elected by the majority of the people in Egypt. You people are fricking hysterical and pathetic. Understand the facts and then talk about the issues.
BTW, go out there. Protest. Riot if you must. Do not let what happened to Egypt happen to us. Truth is, you will do nothing... Just like a good little meaningless Republican.
@!$%#_you
Which one is President Obama's unnecessary war?
Iraq? Oh wait... No, not that one.
Afghanistan? Oh wait... No, not that one either.
I am sorry. You lost me. Oh wait! Got it. You mean what happened in Egypt? So.. to you, the facts are that the president brought Mubarak down, all the violence was also us, and the Brotherhood being elected is also us. Sorry.. I do not mean us... that would be ridiculous. It is all the President's fault. Correct? While you are at it... DO take this opportunity to blame President Obama for every other crap that has/is going on in the world, all the way back to the inquisition.... Oh wait... no, that one was actually OK in your eyes. As a Republican (a dumb and misinformed one at that), you have to appreciate the fact that the religious right was so powerful back in those days.
"Political opponents spurned a call by Morsi for talks on Monday to try to end the violence. Instead, huge crowds of protesters took to the streets in Cairo and Alexandria, and in the three Suez Canal cities - Port Said, Ismailia and Suez - where Morsi imposed emergency rule and a curfew on Sunday."
Sane Egyptians should not trust a word of what the Sunni Islamic haters and killers, Muslim Bloodhounds say.
Sunni Islamic extremists will not keep a word, deal or pact as has been done since the birth of Islamic cult.
Just kick, kick and kill, kill if required each and everyone of the Muslim Bloodhounds.
They should not be permitted to settle.
You know where Obama's sympathies lie.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCAffMSWSzY
Egypt's a democratically elected state that doesnt represent the people.who else does that sound like.id say virtually all democracies.they are controlled by the wealthy elite.a hand full of super rich vested in keeping the status quo.crushing poverty always breeds political instability.this is why redistribution of wealth is so essential to a healthy democracy.the best way is through laws and taxes.failing that the people will take things in to their own hands.they want the government servants of the rich gone
@ OliverBeeaattcchhh!! MSNBC must love your kool-aid drinking looney tunes blind devotion to the "change". It is because he did NOTHING that Egypt is in the trouble it is in today. Because OB was 'charged' with getting troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan(?), he was politically terrified of getting involved in Egypt's struggle to be free. So we got another strongly worded speech and bumbling back-door politics with slick Willy's wife making more fauxpauxs than progress. Since then, OB has turned a blind eye to repeated calls by the UN of voter fraud within Egypt's elections and given a free pass to the new Islamic dictator Morsi. He has even gone as far as to continue to provide military and financial aid to an illegitamate regime and turn a blind eye to similar problems in Libya which, at the very least contributed to the attack on the consulate.
Oliverb - rude, rude, rude. But then again - most leftist are - if you don't believe what they believe then you are wrong - period - end of story. You want to take the 2nd amendment from us - and only you are allowed the 1st amendment.
If you believe that Obama has clean hands in the mess that is Egypt - then you are in for a "rude" awakening....again...be careful what you wish for.
And by the way - what is it you are doing for this country - other than being a self absorbed - pious individual. But hey - this good little meaningless Republican will pray for you....
LMFAO @LooseCannon
Sorry.... You damn fool... I don't watch MSNBC. I find it stupifying and narrowminded. Just like the crap you eat every damn day from your FAUXvorite network, right? To your point... Do I think this government is perfect? NO. HELL NO. But, I will tell you something... It is better, so much better, than any of Dubya's 2 terms. But enough about me....
Explain something you damn fool. You are a staunch republican are you not? You want less government do you not? You do not want this government to take away your freedoms and rights, right? So... now I ask you and please, please use your head on this one and answer, you damn fool.
WHY SHOULD OUR GOVERNMENT, (THAT IS, THE SAME ONE YOU WANT OUT OF YOUR AFFAIRS), GET INVOLVED WITH OTHER COUNTRIES AFFAIRS??? WHY??? YOU DAMN FOOL???
The floor is yours, you stupid as$
LMAO
@ Charles the Hammerhead:
Sorry to burst your bubble of hope but General Abdel Fattah al-Sisi is a Muhammad Morsy appointee accused of having close ties to the Muslim Brotherhood.
oliverb- apparently YOU are the misinformed. deny,deny,deny THE DEMOCRATIC WAY. i am turning to the republican party though,your kind did that. YOU CANNOT DENY OBAMAS FAILURES! how was afghanistan bushes fault? do you mean clinton? turning his back on ANOTHER ALLY? misinformed? ha, and i don't watch that fox news so where am i getting my info? biased democratically owned NEWS STATIONS. you sir(or ma'am) are an idiot. go back to sucking on the teat of america.
@SSGirl
Call me what you want. Your words mean nothing. Your thoughts mean nothing. You have one single vote, on your comment. Pathetic, because it is your own vote. You watch your tv at home listening to all the garbage around you. The cacophony of shear stupidity that clouds your mind and torment the lives of the poor people that are subjected day in and day out to your diatribes about this government. Spare me.
The fact of the matter is that you ABSOLUTELY NO CLUE ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE SAYING. NO SOURCES. NOTHING SO MUCH AS YOUR DUMB IMAGINATION. STFU already with your crap. Your accusations that this government has anything to do with putting the Muslim Brotherhood is absurd. Anyone with any common sense knows that what happened in Egypt, although good for them, was bad for us. I tell you even more.... what your President Dubya did in Iraq was even worse. You know why??? Because it broke the balance that kept everyone in that part of the world docile (READ: IRAN). Make no mistake. This country is not perfect. This government is not perfect. But it is better than anything your party has put in power in the last 12 years and counting.
Your guns? Absolutely no need. Moreover, I will tell you this. You are the poster child why guns, high powered guns, should be banned. You paranoid, self centered, arrogant person. Things are better in this country. Much better than they have been. It is not perfect, and it will never be perfect. Perfection is a matter of perspective. Breathe. Relax. Think.
Could we have expected a different outcome in Egypt being obama only backs losers.
Based on Egypts history, this just looks like military coup is written all over it. And when the countrys military seems to be the most moderate of all options, likely it will be accepted by most of the people and the world. Would serve Morsi right for his decision to become just an islamist dictator to replace the previous dictator.
@!$%#_you
Afghanistan was Clinton's fault? Wow. Now that is news to me. Reality is that you can always blame the one before for missed opportunities. But, the fact is that Dubya started the war in Afghanistan. Or, are you going to deny what is a fact? Not surprising to be sure.
The bottom line is this... I am not here to say the President is without failures. I think there have been many. But, let's be clear, Republicans' hands are not clean. Or are you that narrowminded to think otherwise?
LOL
Could collapse? Egypt aready looks "Collapsed."
i do not deny dumya started afghanistan,it was necessary or do you want to let these guys have easy access to europe too? frenchconnection,you are right, that is our only hope of not having to go in and fix our mess,hopefully there are enough of the"old guard" so to say,to protect their citizens from this new "democratically elected" goverment so many of obamas supporters are tooting( at the same time saying our electio was "rigged" is why bush gets elected,but fail to see this as such)to their FAIL. hopefully it will not be more of our own dying for something that WAS SECURE.
oliverb - are you having a bad day??
The FACT is under Clinton:
1993 - The first World Trade Center bombing
1995 - Attempted crashing of plane on White House
1995 - Oklahoma City bombing
1996 - Khobar Towers bombing - Saudi Arabia
1998 - U.S. Embassy bombings Kenya/Tanzania
2000 - USS Cole Bombing - Yemen
The USS Cole - he completely looked the other way - setting up our nation for 9/11. We looked like a nation of wimps at that time....hmmm....kind of looks like what is going on now.
You can continue to blame Bush for everything - the attacks, the economy - but 4 years have passed - get over it - put the blame where it needs to go today - the Obama regime has done absolutely nothing to improve this country or to make it safer. Oh wait - we have wind energy now...really - get a freaking life.
Oliverblah blah blah, as ususal, being an Obamaite you can not provide intelligent dialog, instead must revert to name calling & cussing in order to try and make your statements seem ligit. If anything it, like the situation in Eygpt, drives people in the exact oppisite direction you are trying to force people to go. The Eygptian people were used as pawns in the Fantical Islamist plan to take over the world (as they have been trying to do since their inception). Christians have always been the vangard against this cancer of a religion. But Christians have always had leaders that recognized the need to keep this stain upon humankind in check, until now. Because we have a false Christian in power in our country, who is an Islamist (under the cover of main stream media and supported by the blind = you), this country is being sold down the river. Just remember my friend/foe, when we fall, you will not be on top of the heap, but will be in the same cesspool the rest of us are being pushed into. Do you really think that Big Government cares about you??? You are so lost in trying to be politically correct that you cannot see what is right in plain sight in broad daylight. We the American people are being diminished each and every day by our present leaders. Just as the Islamist are diminishing the everyday people of many many countries. Because of your lack of experience and knowledge (you don't watch MSN or Fox - where are you getting your info???) you make extremely innane comments and show yourself for exactly what you are. A blind propogandist for the false Christian, spewing posion amongst his flowery words in order to disguise the true matter of his intent. Just like Morsi.
I'm still waiting for Oliver to say something of substance rather than simply shout "things are better now" while hurling insults for no reason.
Then again, trolls rarely have anything of substance to say, so I probably shouldn't hold my breath.
Just for starters, I'd like him/her to provide some evidence that things have gotten better since Obama took charge. Prove to us that our economy hasn't fallen deeper into the crapper. That our country is more unified along racial, class, and political lines as was promoted in 2008 with Obama, The Great Unifier.
And since blaming Bush seems to be your go-to response, let's be clear about somethin in regards to the economy as there's two possibilities when the "Blame Bush" argument comes up. 1: It actually IS Bush's fault, he was such a moron that he nearly destroyed our economy. What's that say about Obama's ability to lead? It's been 4 years now, shouldn't things have at least started getting better? And that brings up the question of "With Obama's first term now in the pages of history, just when DOES this mess start becoming his fault?" Or is he just a seat-warmer president, destined to come and go and have absolutely no impact (no positive one of note yet, and we sure as hell aren't going to let the first black president to go down as a failure) on the nation because clearly everything that went wrong during his regime was the fault of the previous regime.
Or 2: It's all just a BS excuse so Obama's administration can continue implementing self destructive policies and have over half the voting nation turn a blind eye to it when Obama actually DOES do something he promised: fundamentally change this nation.
@ waste of space. It is quite easy if you use your head for more than re-squealing the leftist party line. America has been in a constitutional republic since its founding(not a true democracy as most misinterpret). We have been at this for 225+ years now. Egypt had NEVER before had anything even close to this level of representation for its people. We have the experience to have helped with their transition to a republic(we did help Germany and Japan into republics). As for America and its government, again, we have had 225 years with the constitution and it's amendments, yet our government has over the last couple of decades has continueally eroded our rights and to give the government more say in our everyday lives. This is not party based, but systematic restricting of rights under the guise of protecting us from ourselves basically. That is why I stand against our government stepping in our lives, because we have grown up in the rights and freedoms the constitution guarentees. Egyptians have never had that experience and were led by charismatic Imans into beliving that the M.B. would bring the republic they wanted(not to mention the fraud and voter intimidation reported in ALL their elections so far). If we had done the "hearts and minds" that we failed at in Vietnam here. the election would have been more representative of the Egyptian people wanted, and there would not be as much strife as there is now.
P.S. Is MSNBC to conservative for you? Are you one of the leftist "media is in league with big business" groupies? I don't watch FOX or the other main stream news channels because they constantly make mountains out of molehills. Sex and fear sells newstime and I have gotten tired of filtering the news from the garbage.
P.P.S. I voted for this man in office. See.. I am not a lock-step Republican who blindly follows the party line, unlike others here. I made a promise to myself that I will NEVER vote for another candidate from New York or New England regardless of the party. I have relations in Boston and I hear first hand about the dirty politics there. I will not put one of those double-dealers into the White House ever!!!
@You know Who
First off, let's be clear. You are the ones who CONSTANTLY hurl your insults at the rest of us for putting President Obama in office. Don't try to hide from that now.
Second, you are the ones who call us cowards for wanting for this country to initiate a dialog about gun control.
Third, you are the ones constantly claiming that this country is going in the wrong direction and that we are headed for socialism and/or communism.
Then there is the wars, the financial crisis... etc.
@SSGirl: I only have two items on my list:
1. 9/11. You can try to blame President Clinton for that too. But, it all happened under Dubya's watch. Do not hide from it. Embrace that failure. I won't even beat you over the head with the MOUNTAINS of missed intelligence. Why? Enough to say that you know and the rest of the world knows.
2. Katrina.
Don't defend what you cannot. Just like I am not going to defend President Clinton for missing out on the opportunity to take out Bin Laden before he did anything.
@WickedWanda
I personally loved the 'substance' of this part of your
diatribecomment:1. ALL religions are a cancer. Religion was a way for the ancients to keep people in check. To make sure everyone had something to fear. Be good, or go to hell. Be decent because is the right thing to do, not because someone is putting (literally) the fear of God in you.
2. What exactly do you propose Christians do against Muslims? What world do you live in, crazy person?
3. A false Christian running this country who is a covert Islamist?? OMFG, Really?? You religious people drive me crazy. You must be the type of self-rightous person who walks around holding everyone in comtempt. WOW.
4. This country is being sold down the river. LOL
5. I am not a Christian. Religion is for the weak minded.
6. I must say I do like the way you love thy neighbor. Fairly positive your hate and bias are justified in the eyes of the Lord. Just like killing all infidels is the way of Allah. See the difference between you and an Islamic person? That's right. You don't, because you are all one in the same. Crazy, Weak Minded people.
Finally... @RJ17
1. The economy is better, look at the market numbers. We went through a Second Depression, where are we now? Is it completely healed? Absolutely not.
2. I am sure in your mind it is all about the President right? But he is not a dictator... yet. Until he becomes one, this country is in the hand of Republicans and Democrats. So, when you say it is in the crapper, you DO mean both sides right? Judging by your comments, you must be the smartest person I don't know, so this must be the case.
3. I will say that I have to go with option 1. I do believe the economy is better. Not the best, but better than it was before we started. Banks were on the brink of utter collapse. The automobile industry (to no help of the republicans to be sure) is back on its feet and likely for good. Unemployment rate was high. And the filthy rich were paying more taxes than you and me. That is, assuming you are not sitting at home eating potato chips watching Judge Judy, of course.
How is that for substance?
so how many like me clicked on this cause of the pic of the vw bug, and got no pics of a bug in the story, boo, false advertising
oliverb,
How old are you, must have not been a cognisant adult durng President Clinton (42). STOP BEING SO.......Uneducated.
It is clear you have NO Firsthand Experience:
The Director of the CIA Bush, later President Bush (41), had built up the US Intelligence Agencies that became the envy of the World after the Fall of the USSR and KGB.
President Clinton (42) believed that the Cold War Era US Defense, US Intelligence, US Military were no longer needed sohe chopped the US Defense Budget, Gutted the US Intelligence Agencies that left the US Blind and Deaf to the Events leading to the 9/11 2001 Attacks per Bipartisan US Congressional 9/11 Commission (Committee) Investigations, Findings, and Recommendations, with former President Clinton saying "I'm a so sorry",
President Clinton as Commander In Chief Ordered Cut to the Bone Reduction In Forces (RIF) of the US Military (same thing President Obama is doing) as US Military no longer capable of conducting two Wars Simultaneously, Contigency Mission, and United Nation's Missions; it took President Bush (43) from 2001 till 2003 to rebuild the US Military to conduct President Clinton's US Policy Overthrow of President Hussein by US Law, H.R.4655 "Iraqis Liberation Act of 1998" as 2003 US Military Operation Iraqis Freedom (while we were at Iraq since 2001 conducting Operation Viking Hammer (elimination of the Taliban, Al Quada, Islamic Jihadists that escaped us from Afghanistan to Northern Iraq) after Afghanistan October 2001).
Iraq:
President Clinton's 1998 State of the Union Address:
President Clinton's US Law, H.R. 4655, "Iraqis Liberation Act of 1998", Section 2 Findings:
Those of us that were the US Military Training Teams to US Ally Iraq during the Iran Iraq Wars, rotated to Operation Cyclone, were Against the Overthrow of President Hussein as we KNEW from Experience that President Hussein was the Counterbalance to the Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran, using the Iraqis Oil Wealth and the lives of the Iraqis Citizens of the Iraqis Military. So we were threatened with UCMJ Actions, Detentions, etc. then we:
In 1998 after President Clinton's Demanded US Law, H.R.4655, "Iraqis Liberation Act of 1998" Section 2 Findings Weapons of Mass Destruction, Section 3 US Policy Overthrow of President Hussein, we went into Iraq without any local Iraqis Intelligence Asset link ups; many of the local Iraqis Intelligence Assets had become Iraqis Counter Intelligence, Iraqis Military Intelligence, Iraqis Law Enforcement, etc. waiting for the US to attempt something. We hired hundreds of thousands of Shia Iraqis that originally came from Iran as Illegal Aliens, hired as assassins and insurgents, that hated Sunnis President Hussein for not giving them Iraqis Citizen's Rights. All of this failed as there were too many Iraqis Counter Intelligence, Iraqis Military, Iraqis Law Enforcement, etc. so the hundreds of thousands of Shia Iraqis we hired as assassins and insurgents were easily caught, tried, executed as Traitors, and dumped into mass graves. President Clinton spun this to "Dictator Massacred His Own People".
After this Failure, President Clinton as Commander In Chief Orders 1998 US Military Operation Desert Fox, this too Failed, resulting in the over 1.5 Billion Islamic Believers condemning the US as the Great Satan. Even the few Pro US Iraqis that we were living with turned against us, so we had to exfiltrate thru Redacted out of Iraq.
The "Overthrow" of another Soverign Nation's Established Government is a Political way to say Declaration of War. Think about what would happen if China or the Russian Federation stated as their Policy the Overthrow of President Obama.
THE ONLY REASON WHY PRESIDENT CLINTON MUST HAVE DEMANDED THE OVERTHROW OF PRESIDENT HUSSEIN, PRESIDENT CLINTON MUST HAVE BEEN LISTENING TO THE JEWISH LOBBY, MONIKA LEWINSKY, GIVING HIM BLOW JOBS.
THAT'S RIGHT HISTORICALLY DOCUMENTED PRESIDENT CLINTON, IRAQ, OSAMA BIN LADEN, AL QUADA, AFGHANISTAN, ETC., AS ALL INTERRELATED, CAUSATIVE TIMELINE.
GET AN EDUCATION, oliverb, AND FIRSTHAND EXPERIENCE COUNTS MORE THAN IDEALISTIC ACADEMIC PROPAGANDA WRITTEN BY NON PARTICIAPANTS FROM INFORMATION FROM OTHER NON PARTICIPANTS.
http://money.msn.com/investing/11-things-wrong-with-congress
You want to discuss how President Clinton (42) Caused the $60 Trillion to $100 Trillion Global Economic Crisis consisting of the Mortgage Crisis, Wall Street Crisis, Financial Crisis, Banking Crisis, Credit Crisis, etc..
And how he made the Mortgage Crisis even worse by demanding the Loans (Mortgage) to those that did not have a viable means to repay those Loans (Mortgages).
And that President Obama has NOT done anything to fix the mess created by President Clinton, as that is what you hired President Obama to do during his First Term. And do not say squat about "Obstructionist Congress", or any other lame excuse nor uneducated blame game (blame the wrong person, as typical Demoncrap demonizing Bush Bashing).
@StupidAs$
First off, by your logic, we are the EXPERTS when it comes to democracy matters. What a self centered view of the world, don't you think? We are the best in the world, to us. To the rest of the world, stupid as$, we are not. And you know why we are not? Because being the best, in this case, is really a matter of perspective. From our perspective, we are the best. From everyone else's, they are the best and we are intruding. And when we intrude, we spend unnecessary large sums of money in wars and subsequent help, and we sacrifice the lives of those great, brave men and women who serve this great country of ours. It is not, absolutely not our business to meddle in matters that do not concern us. Especially the Middle East where most hate us, and those who do not is because we give them money. Period.
But, let's not go off on a tangent. You have not answered my question yet... if you want government to stay out of your life, why do you want our to get in the lives of others?
Answer the question with something other than your own biased opinion about why you think our democracy is better and everyone else's. Last I checked, democracy was created in ancient Greece. I don't recall the Greeks giving courses on how to create a government that mirrors what they believed and created. Oh wait... in your own miopic view of the world, Greece created it, we made a science out of it, right?
At this point I would say that there are a lot of people in Egypt who wish they had Mubarak back. A relatively benign military dictator is far better than the religious fanatics they have controlling things now. Anyone who thinks that the elections in Egypt were fair elections, I have some swamp land in FL to sell you. The elections and the subsequent constitutional referendum were controlled and manipulated by the Muslim Brotherhood to achieve the desired outcome. There was widespread fraud in the elections and anyone with a brain knows this. The Islamists will do whatever they need to do in order to maintain control. This is why Morsi fired all of the military leadership and replaced them with MB toadies, he could not risk the military backing the people against him as he expanded his powers to become the new dictator. At this point, the only way the Egyptians will be rid of this Islamist controlled government is if the rank and file military goes against their new leaders and supports the people. Unfortunately for the people of Egypt, I do not see that happening any time soon. The Islamists have managed to destroy the economy of Egypt and they keep the troops loyal by keeping them well housed and well fed when they see many others who are not in the military suffering to try and make it in the collapsed economy. The Islamists buy the military's backing with housing, clothes, and good food, and at least reliable wages. So long as the Islamists remain in control, the life blood of the Egyptian economy which is tourism will never return to it's previous levels. Too many people, particularly westerners who spend most of the money on tourism, simply will not travel to a country where Islamists laws and Sharia courts are the rule.
The saddest part of reading these comments is the division in our country and Americans at each others throats. There are good and bad things, things that don't go as planned, and unexpected successes and failures under every administration. The infighting at this time is unpresidented in my memory and may be the most detrimental thing to happen to our country in a long time. Divide and conquer, we are certainly divided.
"@You know Who
First off, let's be clear. You are the ones who CONSTANTLY hurl your insults at the rest of us for putting President Obama in office. Don't try to hide from that now.
Second, you are the ones who call us cowards for wanting for this country to initiate a dialog about gun control.
Third, you are the ones constantly claiming that this country is going in the wrong direction and that we are headed for socialism and/or communism.
Then there is the wars, the financial crisis... etc."
@Olivedrab- Painting all conservatives with one big brush aren't ya'? Is that not what the left constantly berates the right for doing? Yet you do it quite well, almost like it's second nature for you? What kind of 2nd amendment conversation can we have with this broad condemnation of a group. You will claim the right does it too, but then you try to sound superior by somehow forgetting you do the EXACT SAME THING!!! That is why this 'conversation' is not going to change anyones mind and has gotten boring. b-bye'
@David
First off, you deserve my respect for serving our country. You have that.
Second, all I am going to say about your whole comment is this. The first Iraq war was to protect our oil interests in the middle east. Anything else you want to say about it is biased at best. Weapons of mass destruction? ZERO EVIDENCE and ALL MADE UP. and I don't care who said what about it, Clinton and/or Bush I/II. LIES. BTW, I missed the part where you comment on what the reasons were for us to go into the second Iraq war. Maybe you got tired of typing or copying and pasting, whichever applies. Typical view from someone with its own political agenda. And before you go running with that, yes. I support President Obama. But, I am not naive, unlike yourself, to think that he has been the best president this country has ever seen. But please... Willard? Really???!?
BTW, do not look now but your comments are too riddled with propaganda, the same kind of propaganda you criticize me for.
i weep for our servicemen and womens lives that have essentially been "thrown in the trash" by this caring goverment, the friends and family i have lost are in vain, what now. send my children in too? to what end? to all you people condoning this goverments actions by sticking up for obamas failures,how about we send your children to fix his mess, and ONLY your children. and political agenda? come on now,i have friends with radiation poisoning, is that propoganda? there was NOTHING?
@StupidAs$
You did not answer my question and No one is saying to take away your guns.
Stupid is what stupid wants.
I am tired of trying to communicate with an idi0t. It never fails.... You clearly are an expert at being an idi0t and I cannot beat you at your own game.
You win. Keep your guns and continue blaming President Obama for all the BS around you. I give up.
AGAIN YOU KNOW NOTHING, HAVE NO FIRSTHAND EXPERIENCE.
After President Clinton Chopped the US Defense Budget:
The US Army Corps of Engineers did not have the Funds for the US Army Corps of Engineers Infrastructure Projects within the US like: Bridges, Dredging of Streams and Rivers (previous, recent floods and droughts), Water Reserviors (recent Droughts), Irrigation Canals (Recent Droughts), Beach Erosion, Dams, Berms (like the earthen levees that save homes at New Jersey during Hurricane Sandy), Sea Walls,
AND ESPECIALLY, the US Army Corps of Engineers recommended building new, maintanance, retrofits, modifications, upgrades, etc. of the Levees at New Orleans BEFORE Hurricane Katrina. US Congressional Katrina Hearings.
These US Army Corps of Engineers Projects within the US must be Funded years to decades in advance due to US Congressional Reviews, Environmental Studies, CBO Reviews, GAO Reviews, long US Court Cases, etc..
AGAIN DON'T KNOW SH!T, oliverb, AS AFTER PRESIDENT CLINTON GUTTED THE US INTELLIGENCE AGENCIES THE US HAD TO RELY ON INFORMATION (Not even intelligence) FROM "POTENTIALLY HOSTILE" NATIONS LIKE PAKISTAN, JORDAN, ETC.. The situation was so screwed up that most US Ally Nations refused US access to their Intelligence for fear that there Intelligence Assets would be Compromised (usually meaning killed).
THERE YOU GO AGAIN, NO FIRSTHAND EXPERIENCE oliverb. Prior to becoming US Military Asymmetric Warfare, my US Military Officer Career Field was Nuclear (Weapons) Physics, Biological (Epidemiology, USARIID), Chemical Weapons, Missiles. I was at US Ally Iraq with the US Military Training Teams during the Iran Iraq Wars, when they used Chemical Weapons against the Armed Allies of Iran, the Kurdistanis, and then against the Iranians, to finally end the Iran Iraq Wars. I was also involved much later 2001 in the seizing of Sargat Iraq.
THAT'S RIGHT THE DOCUMENTED HISTORICAL FACTS DO NOT FIT YOUR DEMONCRAP PROPAGANDA NARRATIVE.
STOP PROVING YOU DON'T KNOW ANYTHING, oliverb.
the American peoples information comes in 5 minute bursts on TV followed by 6 minutes of what soap, deodorant,hair cream and car to buy. Most of the news casters read from a script, that is written not to inform but to soothe over any unpleasant occurrences; our mis-information is Orwellian .
who is this "stupid ass" ? i see in a post above that "all you guys do is throw insults" so i don't see anyone posting on this vine called stupid ass. he's probably not old enough to remeber clinton david
Kill all Sunni Islamic extremists.
Even Allah will be happy that sinners have been removed.
Your point is?
Who cares?
AGAIN STOP LISTENING TO WHAT PRESIDENT OBAMA SAYS, AND RESEARCH WHAT HE DOES.
FACTS:
Like everything else, the manufacturer of most Firearms are OUTSOURCED, as in Made at Other Nations.
President Obama directed his Political Appointee US Ambassador to the United Nations to have the United Nations create a Gun Control Treaty:
Democrats Oppose Obama-U.N. Gun Control Treaty
http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/washington-whispers/2011/07/26/democrats-oppose-obama-un-gun-control-treaty
How about listening to what Diane Feinstein has also stated as her proposed Gun Control Bill. That criminalizes current owners of those Firearms she wants banned. CBS News.
As far as all you anti gun nuts:
Yes, we need to take away the guns (penises) from the Demoncraps so that they cannot procreate anymore stup!d offspring:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kU0XCVey_U
And before you start your name calling, from President Obama's 2013 Inauguarl Speech, this only applies to those that voted for President Obama unless you want to admit being a Hypocrite, so we that did not vote for President Obama can do all the name calling we want:
And who are we going to need firearms to protect ourselves from. President Obama's Army that have stated the Murder of those that disagree with the Demoncraps:
"President Obama, this is your Army. We are ready to march. Let's take these son of b!tches out and give America back to an America where we belong," US Labor Union Leader Jimmy Hoffa Junior during President Obama's Reelection Campaign. That's right President Obama standing right there, does nothing against Conspiracy to Commit the Murder of US Citizens, Terroristic Threatening of US Citizens, Homegrown Domestic Terrorists, etc. and instead stands there clapping.
Chancellor Hitler, to his NAZIs and German Citizens, "Loyal Germans must take back Germany from the Jews". Prior to Hitler becoming Chancellor he had his own "Army" as the Sturmabteilung, that stated the same as above, Murder of those opposed; when the SA (Brown Shirts) disagreed with some of what Hitler proposed, Chancellor Hitler had them eliminated and installed his Political Labor Union, the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei aka NAZI Party.
After WWII, the 1950s, McCarthyism (the prosecutions and persecutions) of the Card Carrying Registered US Communist Party Members, and the Card Carrying Registered US Socialist Party Members as backlash for the Chinese Communist Aggressions, the Chancellor Hitler NAZIs (Socialists), Mussolini's Fascists, Stalin's USSR, etc. the Demoncraptic Party welcomed them with open arms to defeat the more popular Repugnants (like War Hero General Eisenhower, later President Eisenhower). The current US Labor Unions were modelled after the NAZI Party and the Mussolini Blackshirts, as to why the Extremely Violent Union Tactics (Murder, Rape, Armed Assaults, Beatings, Arson, Firebombings, Bombings, etc.), so with the same roots they fit right into the Demoncraptic Party. As the same Demoncraptic Party that voted against and violently opposed the 13th Amendment (Abolishment of Slavery) and sided with the majority of Demoncraps of the Confederated States of America against the Republic of America (Republic of America Party, aka Republican Party).
The F-16s were scheduled for delivery on Jan 22. 7 days ago. This article dated Dec 12 is about the $1 billion "gift" from Obama and what it could lead to (the contents of the story we're readying now). http://rt.com/usa/news/obama-fighter-jets-egypt-856/
How many times did we get to hear Democrats list all of the Republicans involved in sending arms to other countries being the cause for us being involved years later? Double standard argumentative points are nothing but smoke-screens to cover the truth when the truth doesn't back your political icons. Radical Islamists killing people in cold blood with our weapons isn't something you'd defend if McCain had won the election and had given them the weapons.
And so we go "forward" with an administration hell-bent on dividing the nation to garner votes based on hate and bigotry towards entire groups of people who won't vote their way. I'm just sad to see the left so involved in redrawing the lines between ethnic groups, gender, and income when so many fought for so long for equality. It's like we're being taken back to the 50s in the name of political correctness.
If that's bias, does that mean you honestly don't care about the human rights violations committed with mass graves full of human beings? Or does it mean all of the Democrats who voted along with the Iraq invasion, knowing full well everything Bush did regarding WMDs and mass graves, all lied? Search 'democrat wmd' on youtube. It's all video of the Democrats screaming about a Republican president prior to Bush not doing anything about the Iraqi WMDs.
Here it comes from Jay Canary: "It is all Bush's fault" since Mr. Obama took responsibility for putting Morsi into power irregardless of the "DEMOCRATIC" vote.
The only way to keep radical islamist
under control is a dictator, worked for years till democracy was installed and it does not work in the middle east.
Really ?!?!? Blame Obama ?
We really are a naive, born yesterday bunch. The Obama administration is just one of a long line of Presidential Offices that support authoritarian military junta/dictators that oppress their people and most times MUCH worse.
Operation Paperclip, The Shah of Iran, Colonel Carlos Castillo, Ngo Dinh Diem, "Papa Doc" Duvalier, The majority of the Cuban Presidents after the Spanish-American War and before Castro, Rafael Trujillo, Admiral Ramon Castro Jijon, General Castelo Branco and the dictators that followed, Mobutu Sese Seko, and I can go on and on.
Point being that it's never a particular President, or even one Office of the Presidency, but a continued tradition over the last 100 years by our government, whoever is actually running the show and pulling the strings.
After reading the many vicious posts about President Obama I came to the conclusion that the flood gates had opened at KKK headquarters and a hurd of skin heads escaped....... What is wrong with you people? Your just not satisfied unless American fighting men and woman are sent off to foreign wars. Thank God Obama DID NOT get us militarily involved in the Egyptian mess. The only thing American diplomacy did was prevent an Egyptian blood bath like Syria.
You people on the right should get over it you lost the last election and your going to loss the next election too. Your all on the wrong side of history so pack up your bag of hateful rhetoric and get a $%^&ing life.
It seems it may be time for the army to send Morsi and his gang of Islamists packing along with their Sharia law.
I'll second that one Phil!
Weak minded huh ? Would you truly say that about such brilliant men of our past ? Founders of most of our sciences, who believed in God.
Christian founders of this country.. they are weak minded too ?
Please define weak minded, how can you make yourself look superior to any of these great men of our past ?
Also I woldnt go as far as saying Religions are cancers. I would say all of them are false religions except one, and that is Christianity.
You cant ever get rid of religion ever.. Even if you some how wipe out the teaching of it, people still have the desire to know their maker. Not all people desire obviously, but many do. Also religion was not put in place to keep people in check, this is such a weak argument. Would you really like to get into that point more ?
Society needs religion, it can not be successful with out it. Our founding fathers knew this very well for america and they talked about it quite a bit. At no time should we force religion on people, but we are to have the freedom to express and choose men who are not afraid to show their belief in God. I will never forget what this country was founded on.
Also with our Religion or I should say the one God, that of the bible, there would be no way to determine morality. It is completely subjective with out an absolute point of truth.
Marmaduke, a good number of the founding fathers were deist's, not christian, and some were members of multiple churches of different denominations. It was more for political interests than their spiritual beliefs. And the most important thing, even the most devout of the founding fathers like John Adams, knew that religion had no place in government and made every effort to keep the two separate.
Thats not true them being deists.. Deism is the belief that God created the world and then let it operate according to natural laws.
Deism is not a specific religion but rather a particular perspective on the nature of God. Deists believe that a creator god does exist, but that after the motions of the universe were set in place he retreated, having no further interaction with the created universe or the beings within it. As such, there are a variety of common religious beliefs that deists do not accept. No need to worship, rejection of the prophets, rejection of super natural events.
We know about thomas jefferson, and him making his own bible, taking out the miracles of Jesus. If you look at say Ben Franklin, he at one time did turn to deism, and some felt that this was because of his rebellion to the strict up bringing of calvanism. BUt later on in his life his works that he wrote started pointing back to God, he said As he grew older, he came to believe in a Creator-God who possessed great wisdom, goodness, and power. God not only created this world, but he also sustained it. Franklin was amazed at the way God created the stars and the planets, but he was even more amazed that God continued "to govern them in their greatest Velocity as they shall not flie off out of their appointed Bounds nor dash against another, to their mutual Destruction." It was not laws of science that held the universe together, it was the sustaining power of an active God.
Franklin even believed that God could, on occasion, intervene in the lives of his human creation. Thirty-six years after he claimed to have embraced deism, Franklin sounded like anything but an adherent to this religious system: "Without the Belief of a Providence that takes Cognizance of, guards and guides and may favour particular Persons, there is no Motive to Worship a Deity, to fear its Displeasure, or to pray for its Protection." Franklin believed that God required worship, answers prayer, and intervenes in history to meet the needs of "particular Persons." By 1787, Franklin was requesting that the Constitutional Convention pause for prayer to seek guidance and reconciliation in the midst of one of its most heated debates.
http://www.adherents.com/gov/Founding_Fathers_Religion.html
Wrong again. It was never our fathers intentions to keep the two separate, if they did it would had been part of our constitution, , rights , amendments . Its not there. The only thing that is in place is that the government can make no state religion, the government can not mettle in church affairs. NO where does it say that the church can not influence our leaders, or stop christian people from showing their faith while in office.
Do any of you all even read the works of our fathers, and their history ? Pick up a book and see how religion was a big part of their lives.
Sure you can pick out a one liner from John adams, saying that religion is bad, or something along the lines like that, but if you were to read everything from him, and everything in complete context with out one line ripping out of context. HOw many times have i been confronted with the famous one liner ripped out of context ..
“This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it!”
You see !!! look what he said.. But lets look at all of what he said.
Twenty times in the course of my late reading have I been on the point of breaking out, “This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion at all!!!” But in this exclamation I would have been as fanatical as Bryant or Cleverly. Without religion, this world would be something not fit to be mentioned in polite company, I mean hell.
I understand people today who are so hostile against the Christian faith that they are trying to do everything in their power to influence others, and make people believe that religion had nothing to do with this country. Luckily there are those of us who know the real truth, and will keep the facts straight. Its bad enough to see the liberal revisionist world spilling its corruption on something that was so good at one time and that is our government. Even our Supreme court and its views have changed radically, escpecially since the 1940's and on. If you were to compare what people said and thought back then in the courts, to what is said or not said today, it like , night and day.. two different worlds.
So please stop trying to spread false lies about our history. History and the words of our fathers speak for themselves. You can say or believe what ever you want, but you can not change recorded words of our history and fathers.
If you really would like to debate history, i suggest going to some good history forums and talking with people who specialize in american history.
Good day.
Marmaduke, that is absolutely incorrect, and you completely twisted, changed, and misinterpreted my words to suit your agenda.
I never stated that there weren't christians amongst the Founding Fathers. I was just correcting the inaccuracies that they were ALL christian, and framed The Constitution and this nation with their religious beliefs at the forefront.
My bookshelves are full of historical books and books about history. From The Federalist Papers, Common Sense, The Collected Revolutionary Writings of John Adams and The Anti-Federalist Papers, to writings by modern historians like Chalmers Johnson and Howard Zinn.
First of all let's correct your misinterpretation and twisting of my words. I CLEARLY stated that John Adams was one of the most devout christian Founding Father. My point was that the Founding Fathers made it clear, especially John Adams, that there needs to be a clear separation between religion and government.
Don't believe me ? Let John Adams tell you himself in Article 11 of The Treaty of Tripoli.
"As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion,-as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen,-and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."
I have plenty more historical evidence to prove my point if you'd like, but I'm not here to embarrass, discredit, or change your belief system.
My initial point, which hopefully I clarified for you above, was that even amongst the most religious Founding Fathers they made much effort to separate religion from our government.
If you need to believe in the "god/Christ myth" to get through the day, good for you, I will never try and stop you or change your mind. My only intention was trying to correct your inaccurate and poor attempt at a history lesson.
BTW, in response to your first comment about Obama supplying weapons to Egypt, it's not just Obama, it's a continued policy of our government no matter who is in office. Our government has before Obama, is now, and will in the future after Obama continue to supply weapons to governments/rebels/freedom fighters/etc. to do bad things to innocent people.
Ok first there are issues with treaty of tripoli.
Second, there were more then just one person in power in our government than John Adams.
Remember the separation was a one way thing. The government will make no state religion, or meddle in the affairs of the church, but no where has any document state that the influence from the church, founding fathers christian beliefs is prohibited.
NOw back to the issues with treaty of tripoli.
http://www.ministers-best-friend.com/Treaty-of-Tripoli--Not-the-Fraud--but-the-TRUE-CHRISTIAN-Treaty-Story--COURSE-AMER-HIS-160.html
http://www.apologeticspress.org/APContent.aspx?category=7&article=4520
There are plenty of places out there that talk about issues with the treaty of tripoli. You will find out why Adams said what he did, because of the reasons behind it when he addressed the muslims. Also dont forget even if you could pull off the treaty of tripoli as meaning exactly what it says, it would be in conflict with how the majority of our founding fathers said and felt.
How many other documents are there out there from words of our founding fathers who said, that this is a christian nation, or we should vote for christians in office, or society wouldnt make it with out religion. BUt none of these statements indicate that the Government is trying to force a state religion, no where.. How ever it does say that it is ok , and pretty much in the best interest if we keep our focus on God because society is a better place when we have such great biblical values and respect for the highest authority of God , along with morality. Once again I think people confuse the two with forcing state religion, and just saying hey , its in americas best interest if we keep our focus on God, or God is our stepping stone, our foundation.
This is one place where i agree with you . Now the f16's and 200 tanks promised 2 years ago when muburak was in power. These were a Gift to be given to him. WHat boggles my mind is why are we giving countries billions of dollars in gifts ? Especially when its items that kill people. Im all for giving food clothes medicine with my tax paying dollars, but not something like these jets and tanks.
This was 2 years ago , so this was on Obama, and even in his interview , when asked, do you consider egypt an ally ? He said I dont not consider them an ally. Now to be fair , he also goes on to say I dont consider them an enemy either. But that is irrelevant, because if a government is not your ally, then they are free to do what ever they want. Now that this whack job Morsi is in power over there, if we give him these weapons they can be used to kill our men and woman, and or our allies over there. Its mind boggling what our government does.
I also agree with you, this kind of stuff has and will go on long before obama, and long after him. MOney.. It makes me sick to think that society has grown such a strong love of it to where it corrupts the mind, and our men and women in office. I dont trust our government, they lie about everything, they have their nose into everything, they are way to big, and have outgrown their original intentions set by our founding fathers by leaps and bounds. Protect our borders was one of the number one big priorities. We cant even do that, but we can have our noses into every ones business and suck money from everyone in any possible way we can.
I'm not arguing the merits or issues of The Treaty of Tripoli, my point was it was written by Joel Barlow, but signed by John Adams. Who said after presenting it to Congress
"Now be it known, That I John Adams, President of the United States of America, having seen and considered the said Treaty do, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, accept, ratify, and confirm the same, and every clause and article thereof."
John Adams is one of the few Founding Fathers that I admire and believe through in through, regardless of his personal religious beliefs.
Another issue with your argument is that your assuming that John Adams is always referring to christianity in his writings on religion. There is no basis or evidence of that anywhere. The definition of religion has nothing about christianity in the definition.
Yes, some of the Founding Fathers believed in god, some were christians, some were members of multiple churches of many denominations for political, not spiritual reasons, some weren't christians at all.
And if they were such great christians, why were there so many slave owners amongst them ? Why did George Washington order the assassination of his own men after the Mutiny of the New Jersey Line ? Why did these great christians commit other terrible acts during that period if they were such men of god ?
My initial comment was only attempting to correct that misrepresentation that you presented, nothing more, nothing less.
Again, I have no issue with you or anyone being christian, jewish, muslim, or some other belief in god. That's the beauty of this country, what the Founding Fathers intended. If you need to believe in god to get through the day, that's your right, and I won't try and stop you unless your beliefs interfere with state or federal legislation, or if it affects my life directly.
I wasn't defending Obama, I despise Republicans and Democrats alike. And I totally agree with you about what our government has become and that our tax dollars shouldn't be going overseas (directly or indirectly) to kill our allies or innocent civilians. Really I don't think our government should allow the killing of anyone unless it's in direct defense of our country (Stopping or repelling an armed attack), in our country.
Now see in todays world, I believe you can get away with that saying that but back in their time, I never seen any indication that they would ever consider any other religion other then Christianity as the norm. It would really be hard to say if they would had accepted a state leader who was say Muslim, or hindu. It was un heard of back then. If I am not mistaken, and I will have to look again at the texts I have, but the early state constitutions required that any leader in office had to profess their faith in Christ, or to be of a certain Denomination. I never seen them debate about what religion, because most of them were of the Christian faith. If there were differences it was on a denominational level. Which is pretty big itself when talking about protestant reformation Lutheranism, Calvanism, separating from Catholicism. I think when addressing our fathers, we need to look back even farther to understand why they came here, and what they were getting away from with the Church of England, King henry, and Bloody mary , elizabeth .. There is just so much history there that sets up our history here.
Im with you, I despise them all too and yet it amazed me when we have these primaries, and all of these candidates going for office, how do we always end up with what we end up with. . I think back to McCain and Palin , wow.. even Obama , it still amazes me how he got to be president. It surely wasnt of his leadership and qualities to fix america. With our society doing this huge cultural and liberal shift, I truly do believe the 2008 election was nothing more than people wanting to make history instead of wanting to fix america.. Thats in the past now, and here we are, with promises the president made, still waiting....
I had my likes about Clinton, mainly because he did Balance our Budget, which still amazes me to this day but nevertheless kudos to him , and of course Newt Gingrich.
My personal opinion about the Government is that our congress can not serve more then 2 terms, just like the president. Its possible it would help with cycling some of the corruption and power hungary mongrels in there now.
It would be nice to see some more independents in there or for president, or even better yet it would be nice to have a presidential ballot with more then two people to pick from, I would like 3 or 4 from each party on there so america has more choices.
I also agree our government should not be off killing people unless in the protection of our nation but then the problem is, do you wait for an attack to come here like 9/11 or do you go to their land and bomb them to smithers to prevent them from coming here.
Islamic Brotherhood needs to go. They are nothing but PIG S()T.
This might be a good thing, if it means Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood are kicked out of there and aren't eventually placed with another "religious" group. The things that region needs most are religious tolerance and woman's rights. I have never seen a Muslim based government even put those things on the agenda, let alone prioritize them. Never mind Morsi's obvious attempts at becoming the next dictator like declaring himself "temporary" Pharaoh and overriding the courts. Mubarak's "state of emergency" that allowed him to give more funds to the military was "temporary" too. And never mind the fact that even Russia, who is allies to Iran of all countries, has had the Muslim Brotherhood classified as terrorists for years. I don't know about you, but I think it would be good if Morsi was gone.
Still, you can't blame the Egyptian people for this as they had no real choices. It was either Morsi or Mubarak's remnants. A lose-lose situation, stuck between a rock and a hard place. And they had just had a revolution to get rid of Mubarak. Obviously, they weren't going to vote that back in after they had just fought so hard to get rid of it. Now they find themselves needing to rebel again, but they didn't really have a choice.
I'd wager, that if Morsi had made sure that their new Constitution was compatible to the other sectors of the Egyptian populous (other than "just" the Muslim Brotherhood/Islam), he wouldn't be worried about his job. Morsi has made a far to large percentage of a youthful and educated society feel impotent!
Whatever you may say about Mubarak, whilst he wasn’t perfect, he kept the country going for over 3 decades. He was also the main driving force behind efforts to achieve lasting peace in the region.
But as usual, when people have too much of a good thing, they get complacent and stop appreciating what they’ve got.
Lawerence:
Yes, but he's Obama's PIG S()T.....
islamaic terrorists stroking the fire is what got this unrest started, the others followed like the sheep here in america,i am no sheep and WILL NOT FOLLOW this presidents "hidden agenda"(although it's not too hidden now, is it?). you people supporting him are blind,take off them blinders and LOOK AT THE BIG PICTURE.for the sake of america,please open eyes and look around you(not just your cozy little suburb in utopia). funny how it started after 2010(bushes scheduled date for withdrawal from iraq), might our country have had TREATIES with these two countries(for their help)?
""Martial law, state of emergency and army arrests of civilians are not a solution to the crisis," said Ahmed Maher of the April 6 movement that helped galvanize the 2011 uprising. "All this will do is further provoke the youth. The solution has to be a political one that addresses the roots of the problem.""
Sunni Islamic extremist, Muslim Bloodhounds should be dumped into Suez Canal or jails!
Let Egyptians become a model for treating Islamic extremists.
The Egyptian people really screwed up when they elected a terrorist group to represent them. If Egyptians think the Islamist President will surrender power without spilling lots of innocent blood they should check out the body count in the "Islamic Republic of Iran". Islamist’s are terrorists and when they do grab power they will fight to the death before they relinquish it.......... I suggest everyone cancel their travel plans to Egypt for at least the next 18 months, unless of course you want to be beheaded.
But Obama and the Islamic Brotherhood are pals. Looks like the Egyptian people don't like Obama's buddies at all.
Sharia anyone !
Over ice with a twist of lime, please.
Egypt will blow up in everyone’s face real soon. Just give it a bit more time.
Interestingly enough, in Afghanistan, our soldiers are packing their bags and preparing to pull out, maybe while in the neighbourhood they could give Morsi a hand in restoring order in the country. After all, we put him there.
I am sure he would be forever grateful.
poor Humor. Or are you having a "pipe dream?"
Our soldiers are packing their bags? Where did you hear this? My husband is in Afghanistan and he says they are not even close to preparing to leave, no matter what the media tells you.
Janine....
I hear you but.....President Obama committed to begin the responsible withdrawal of U.S. troops from Afghanistan beginning July 2011. Then he said that the “surge” troops he approved in December 2009 will leave Afghanistan by the summer of 2012.
In May 2012 while visiting Afghanistan he said “Last year, we removed 10,000 U.S. troops from Afghanistan. Another 23,000 will leave by the end of summer. After that, reductions will continue at a steady pace, with more and more of our troops coming home. And as our coalition agreed, by the end of 2014 the Afghans will be fully responsible for the security of their country”.
While there in Afghanistan he also met with President Karzai to “sign a historic strategic partnership agreement as the United States prepares to withdraw most of its forces by 2014”.
Today is Jan 29th 2013 so one would assume that many of our troops have their bags packed and by the end of this year most of them will be out of there and hopefully on the way home.
Stop being a turd ball, DO NOT VOLUNTEER OTHERS TO DO THOSE THINGS YOU WOULD NEVER DO.
AND:
"WE" did not put him there, you dumbarses that voted for Candidate Obama with no experience and still refuses to listen to "Expert Advise", f**ked up.
Do not even attempt to do the "Shared Blame" crap, those of us that knew better from Decades of Experience, told you what was going to happen.
See post#1.4. As the REAL reason we are abandoning US Ally Afghanistan to be massacred by the Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban, AGAIN !!!!!. Just like we abandoned the 1980s US Ally Pro US Afghan Muhajeen to be massacred by the 1990s Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban. And do not even attempt to say I do not know, I was at Afghanistan during and after Operation Cyclone, as after we "officially" left Afghanistan some of us were still there and observed the massacres, then the destruction of 20th Century US Ally Afghanistan by the 1990s Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban.
Your annoying"Wee, wee, wee":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxRoXuPjAKc
Janine-1645002,
If you husband is here and is one of us and not the US Military Conventional Warfare Forces, President Obama has signed an Agreement with President Karzai for us to remain "Indefinitely", as decades after the US Military Conventional Warfare Forces leave 2014.
From experience with the US Military Training Teams sent to US Ally Iraq during the Iran Iraq Wars, rotated to Operation Cyclone, Redacted, Liberation of Kuwait, First Gulf War, Redacted, UN Mission Somalia, UN Mission Sudan, Redacted, Operation Desert Fox, Redacted, Operation Viking Hammer, Operation Hotel California, Operation Odyssey Dawn, etc. till now do not believe the Obama Lie US Military at Afghanistan as "Non Combatants", "Support Role", etc. after 2014.
See post#1.4.
dave- so right,had WE not abandoned afghanistan in their time of NEED in the late 80's to early 90's, there would have been less conflict,requiring us to go back. people forget that they were VERY US FRIENDLY after we aided them in the removal of the russians. OBAMA= BIG FAILURE! what say you,supporters,bushes fault? i say f#$k you!
Love this part of the story:
And that's the big rub with 'democracy'. Stupid people can vote too.
Janine-1645002 told you; now I am telling you, DO NOT LISTEN TO THE PRESIDENT OBAMA PROPAGANDA.
If you knew from Firsthand Experience all the President Obama f**k ups here at Afghanistan that resulted in the unnecessary Deaths of US Citizens of the US Military, you would sh!t all over yourself.
Examples:
President Obama as Commander In Chief Orders the Cuts to the US Defense Budget April 2009, while the US Military is in Two Wars (Iraq and Afghanistan), the President Obama Secret Wars, and United Nations Mission as volunteered by President Obama. THE RESULT(Not your uninformed uneducated opinion): Chops to the Funds for the Maintenance of US Military Vehicles, Ships and Boats (Submarines), Aircraft, Facilities, Weapons Systems, etc.; chops to the Funds for Sustainment as Food, Water, Logistics, Transportation, Ammunition, etc..
General McKiernan writes his General McKiernan War Plan to Win Afghanistan. General McKiernan requests 90,000 US Military to accomplish the General McKiernan War Plan to Win Afghanistan. The requested 90,000 US Military is based on the numbers of Taliban, Al Quada, and Islamic Jihadists as the Minimum numbers required to be successful. President Obama refuses General McKiernan's Request for 90,000 US Military.
As a US Military Officer it is General McKiernan's Duty to inform the US Public after the US Politicians refuse to listen to those matters pertaining to a US Military Officer's Representation of the Silenced US Citizens of the US Military. General McKiernan informs the US Public thru a CBS News Interview with Katie Couric about his War Plan, his requests, and President Obama's Refusal. Outraged President Obama demands General McKiernan's Letter of Resignation as Commander ISAF Afghanistan. Because President Obama has no legal nor valid grounds for demanding General McKiernan's Letter of Resignation, President Obama made a Deal with General McKiernan to get his Letter of Resignation, as General McKiernan Retires as a Four Star General instead of a Three Star Lieutenant General.
After receiving General McKiernan's Letter of Resignation, President Obama grabbed General McKiernan's War Plan to Win Afghanistan, and renamed the War Plan to the Obama War Plan to Win Afghanistan. Without any US Military Training, nor Experience (remember President Obama refuses to listen to any expert advise) President Obama does not know that without General McKiernan's Commander's Intent portion of General McKiernan's War Plan to Win Afghanistan is Useless; therefore, making the plagiarized Obama War Plan to Win Afghanistan Useless.
President Obama appoints his Registered Demoncrap General McChrystal as Commander ISAF Afghanistan and Orders General McChrystal to implement the Obama War Plan to Win Afghanistan. President Obama lies and tells the US Public and US Congress, "Anything he (General McChrystal) Needs, He will get". General McChrystal requests 90,000 US Military, President Obama Refuses (again) and only allows 30,000, as 1/3rd of the minimum required for success. The Obama War Plan to Win Afghanistan Fails Miserably resulting in many unnecessary deaths of US Military and US Ally Canadian Military Forces. President Obama plays the Blame Game and dumps his Failure on General McChystal.
At the same time that the above is happening President Obama as Commander In Chief Orders his US Civilian Surge(s) to Afghanistan and Iraq of hundreds of thousands of Non Combatant Overpaid Too Expensive US Civilians. At Afghanistan many of the 30,000 US Military had to be pulled away from Combat to do Guard Duty of the Non Combatant US Civilians Hotels. These hundreds of thousands of Non Combatant Overpaid Too Expensive US Civilians demand as their "Rights" BurgerKing, Starbucks, Mexican Food, Pizza, etc. further straining General McChrystal's Limited Logistics coming thru Pakistan (see post#1.4). President Obama as Commander In Chief Orders his Civilian Law Enforcement Rules of Engagement for the US Military as "Cannot shoot until shot". The US Civilian Lawyers of President Obama's US Civilian Surge attempt to prosecute the Deutsche Bundeswehr Commandos for calling in an Airstrike against Fuel Tankers hijacked by the Taliban, until the Chancellor of Germany Merkel has a very terse (almost derrogatory) discussion with President Obama, including actions against the US by Germany at the UN, as well as, removal of the Deutsche Bundeswehr from all US Actions Worldwide (not only United Nations Mission Afghanistan).
The US Civilians of President Obama's US Civilan Surge as President Obama's Political Appointees on General McChrystal's "High Level Staff" start saying, "This Administration Does Not Know What It Is Doing", as the actions as Ordered by President Obama as Commander In Chief are resulting in the Unnecessary Deaths of US Citizens of the US Military.
General McChrystal after becoming the Commander ISAF, is asked by President Karzai to investigate President Obama's Political Appointees Holbrooke and Eikenberry, as Billions USDs are being spent by them (the money not accessable by the US Military nor the Afghans), while nothing is being built nor done. As promised to President Karzai by President Obama's Political Appointees Holbrooke and Eikenberry the basic electricity at Kabul would be restored, so President Karzai included this promise in his Election, when this did not happen the Afghans got angry at President Karzai and the US (empty promise). General McChrystal f**ked up and told President Obama's Political Appointees Holbrooke and Eikenberry that he was investigating them, so they start doing everything and anything to stop his investigations of them, including those things to get him Relieved of Command, they then start to discredit US Ally President Karzai by announcing, "Karzai Corrupt" to the International New Media to deflect blame from themselves. Their undermining a US Ally's Established Government with "Karzai Corrupt" gave the Taliban, Al Quada, Islamic Jihadists the Strategic Asymmetric Warfare Goals of "Undermining the Established Government of a US Ally", "(Taliban, Al Quada) Gaining Local Support", ""(Taliban, Al Quada) Gaining National Support", ""(Taliban, Al Quada) Gaining International Support", "Defeating the Enemy's (US And US Allies) Will to Maintain the Fight (Support of the War)".
General McChrystal is given a Deal by President Obama as President Obama does not have a Legal Leg to Stand on to demand General McChrystal's Letter of Resignation. General McChrystal accepts President Obama's Deal to Retire as a Four Star General instead of a Three Star Lieutenant General, instead of General McChrystal demanding a Public US Congressional Hearing that would have destroyed President Obama's Political Career by making Public all of the "This Administration Does Not Know What It Is Doing" (that resulted in many unnecessary deaths of US Citizens of the US Military).
Again wtw of KC do not tell me I don't know. I was here during all of the above, including when President Obama during video conferences chewed out the Generals in front of all of us (something you never do as Basic US Military Leadership 101). The only breaks we ever got from years of consecutive tours here were going to Iraq, Yemen, President Obama's Secret Wars, Libya, etc..
"The struggle between political forces in Egypt could “lead to the collapse of the state,” the country’s army chief said Tuesday."
Can't the army chief see that Egypt has already collapsed?
Army should take over and send all Muslim Bloodhounds into jails and drive some out.
These Sunni Islamic extremists will be a liability anywhere. So it is better to reduce their number.
General Abdel Fattah al-Sisi is a Morsy appointee from last August, accused of having close ties to the Muslim Brotherhood.
@!$%#_you,
A lot of us wanted to remain at US Ally Afghanistan after Operation Cyclone to help US Ally 1980s Pro US Afghan Muhajeen rebuild 20th Century Afghanistan. Short of "Disobeying Direct and Specific Orders" (almost "Treason") we remained at Afghanistan until the 1990s Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban had finished massacring most of the US Ally 1980s Pro US Afghan Muhajeen (our close friends made in combat, that we trained lived with and lead into combat against the USSR 40th Army)*, we were still here when the 1990s Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban as fully supported by the USSR backed Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran started to massacre all "suspected" Collaborators to the Christians, Jews, Unbelievers*; then unopposed the 1990s Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban started to destroy anything of 20th Century Afghanistan that was "Modern", "Western", "Non Islamic". Then we exfiltrated thru Pakistan.
There used to be almost 20,000 to 50,000 US Ally 1980s Pro US Afghan Muhajeen, most got massacred a few (dozens) later switched sides to survive. And no Osama Bin Laden and his Al Quada were NOT here, they were still at Saudi Arabia attempting to overthrow US Ally Saudi Arabia Government. We extensively Vetted everyone we trained, to prevent USSR Infiltrators, Pro USSR Afghan Inflitrators, Counter Intelligence Agents, etc. (The reason why we never had Afghans shoot us in the back nor compromise us to the USSR.).
*After President Clinton's Gutting of the US Intelligence Agencies, the Local Intelligence Assets Worldwide no longer funded, with many of the local intelligence assets to survive make money to feed their families, became the Counter Intelligence Agents (Anti US). As to why no one knew where Osama Bin Laden was after President Clinton let him go after the 1993 First World Trade Center Bombing and refused Presidential Authorization to Terminate Osama Bin Laden using the excuse of the US No Assassination Policy.
In 1998 after President Clinton's Demanded US Law, H.R.4655, "Iraqis Liberation Act of 1998" Section 2 Findings Weapons of Mass Destruction, Section 3 US Policy Overthrow of President Hussein, we went into Iraq without any local Iraqis Intelligence Asset link ups; many of the local Iraqis Intelligence Assets had become Iraqis Counter Intelligence, Iraqis Military Intelligence, Iraqis Law Enforcement, etc. waiting for the US to attempt something. We hired hundreds of thousands of Shia Iraqis that originally came from Iran as Illegal Aliens, hired as assassins and insurgents, that hated Sunnis President Hussein for not giving them Iraqis Citizen's Rights. All of this failed as there were too many Iraqis Counter Intelligence, Iraqis Military, Iraqis Law Enforcement, etc. so the hundreds of thousands of Shia Iraqis we hired as assassins and insurgents were easily caught, tried, executed as Traitors, and dumped into mass graves. President Clinton spun this to "Dictator Massacred His Own People".
After this Failure, President Clinton as Commander In Chief Orders 1998 US Military Operation Desert Fox, this too Failed, resulting in the over 1.5 Billion Islamic Believers condemning the US as the Great Satan. Even the few Pro US Iraqis that we were living with turned against us, so we had to exfiltrate thru Redacted out of Iraq.
The Director of the CIA Bush, later President Bush (41), had built up the US Intelligence Agencies that became the envy of the World after the Fall of the USSR and KGB. President Clinton believed that the Cold War Era US Defense, US Intelligence, US Military were no longer needed sohe chopped the US Defense Budget, Gutted the US Intelligence Agencies that left the US Blind and Deaf to the Events leading to the 9/11 2001 Attacks (Bipartisan US Congressional 9/11 Commission (Committee) Investigations, Findings, and Recommendations, with former President Clinton saying "I'm a so sorry"), Cut to the Bone Reduction In Forces (RIF) of the US Military (same thing President Obama is doing) as US Military no longer capable of conducting two Wars Simultaneously, Contigency Mission, and United Nation's Missions; it took President Bush (43) from 2001 till 2003 to rebuild the US Military to conduct President Clinton's US Policy Overthrow of President Hussein by US Law, H.R.4655 "Iraqis Liberation Act of 1998" as 2003 US Military Operation Iraqis Freedom (while we were at Iraq since 2001 conducting Operation Viking Hammer (elimination of the Taliban, Al Quada, Islamic Jihadists that escaped us from Afghanistan to Northern Iraq) after Afghanistan October 2001).
After the 9/11 2001 Attacks, September 2001, President Bush (43) sent in his Executive Intelligence Agency, the CIA, to Locate and Capture Osama Bin Laden; Overthrow the Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban Government that sponsored the 9/11 2001 Attacks. This failed due to no local Afghan intelligence assets (funding chopped by President Clinton's Gutting of the US Intelligence Agencies). The Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban Government after giving Osama Bin Laden and his Al Quada Islamic Sanctuary had locked down Afghanistan tighter than North Korea.
After failing in September 2001, we are attached to the CIA's SAD/SOG, and in October 2001 we go into Afghanistan to Overthrow the Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban Government, eliminate the Al Quada and Islamic Jihadists that sponsored the 9/11 2001 Attacks. No one knows where Osama Bin Laden is as still no local Afghan intelligence assets; the CIA keeps searching as President Bush (43) Presidential Authorized (Standing Presidential Executive Order) Mission to Locate and Capture Osama Bin Laden as Delegated to Director of the CIA, Commander US Military Special Operation Command, Commander US Military Joint Special Operation Command. It was absolutely necessary to Capture Osama Bin Laden to obtain his thought processes and planning processes he imprinted on his Al Quada Leadership, so that the US could preemptively interdict all Al Quada Activities Worldwide. In 2006 President Bush Amended the US No Assassination Policy to Authorize the Termination of Osama Bin Laden as a Mission Failure (Standing Presidential Executive Order (EO)), of Capturing Osama Bin Laden.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arxKhJIjIiY
Those of us that survived the above link, start pursuit of the Taliban, Al Quada, Islamic Jihadist, along the Old Silk Road to Northern Iraq killing them with extreme prejudice. The US Politicians demand we stop as not to violate the Soverign Nations of Iran, Iraq, etc..
In 2001 we start Operation Viking Hammer, the elimination of the Taliban, Al Quada, Islamic Jihadists that escaped us at Afghanistan, they had combined with the Fundamentalist Islamic Kurdistanis PKK, HPG, KGK, and became Ansar Al Islam. Before we could eliminate them, the Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran gave them Islamic Sanctuary, some fled south to the Shia of Iraq; many returned to Afghanistan thru Iran or from Pakistan. Being a United Nations Mission, NATO appointed Gentleman British General McColl as the Commander ISAF, General McColl did nothing to stop the Taliban, Al Quada, Islamic Jihadists from returning to Afghanistan.
Now do you see, why, after all of these years most of us are resubmitting our Retirement Packets.
david-thank you dearly for your service to this country,even as you see in some of these posts,they are blind to truth and some are greatly undeserving of your care for this country and it's people. have faith that not all are undeserving or uncaring of your sacrifices(many). how they will still stand up and spout that this little incident in egypt is NOT OBAMAS FAULT. deny he helped overthrow mubarak,and let this "corrupt election"( remember guys, you also say bush bought the election right?) serve as a false base for their denial. and only come back is "you are misinformed, i am not", even when you are here(on this board,but in the thick of it) to tell the sheep the TRUTH. SHEEP WILL BE SHEEP, PERIOD, there is no help for them(probably most are on some kind of meds)
David….4.7 and 4.10
Sorry, had to rush out to do some work.
I know exactly what you are talking about and how you feel. I did my share of heavy lifting well before your time, I guess. Politicians are creatures of habit; they are unto themselves. They do whatever it takes to show off ”their generosity” and say anything to kill time or to” make themselves look better” no matter what people think or who gets hurt. Afghanistan, Israel, Libya are just a few examples of how easily they flex, manipulate and adapt to the circumstances. Our election in November last year is also a perfect example. In most cases people are easily swayed by big words and the occasion and they follow. The fact that the reality and the rhetoric turn out to not match, is of no concern as people have short memories and many basically don’t care.
THIS IS A PUBLIC SERVICE WARNING: david-475776 has contracted a very bad case of Fox News disease. You should avoid contact with infected individuals like david-475776 this disease is very contagious and does cause PERMANENT brain damage.
After reading david-475776's posts it's obvious his affection for G.W. Bush is total and no amount of truth or logic will change his mind......... Diagnosis: I'm afraid his case is terminal.
wtw of KC, Oh please are you a Bush lover too?
EASILY SWAYED!!! Yeah I was easily swayed when I listened to Romney's lies and total B.S. wanting to drag America back to the rape and pillage days of the Bush/Cheney administration. If you agree with Romney, you might want to go a doctor and get a reality check, It appears your judgment has been damaged.......... You may also have a case of Fox News Disease.
Before Egypt goes down for the count, I recommend that they invite the U.N. in. Just a suggestion! - Rick Carter
Sorry Rick but was that sarcasm???
Why? to screw up things even worse? The UN doesn't have the balls it takes to do what they preach. they are a waste of money.
Wherever UN and its agencies put their hand, that place is messed up beyond repair.
Everyone in the UN will be busy stealing, raping and doing dramas spending our tax monies!
Let Egypt prosper with right rulers and not ruined by UN and its agencies.
STOP BEING SO UNEDUCATED, the US Military is the United Nation's Military B!tches; just like NATO is the US Military as to why the Supreme Allied Powers Europe Commanding Officer is routinely a US Military General or US Military Admiral.
SO AGAIN, STOP VOLUNTEERING US (US Military as the 1% of US Citizens, with 92% of US Citizens NEVER Serving) TO DO THOSE THINGS YOU WOULD REFUSE TO DO YOURSELF. YOU WANT TO FIX PRESIDENT OBAMA'S F**K UPS, YOU DO THAT. While President Obama as Commander In Chief has Ordered 50% of us to be thrown on Unemployment as his Reduction In Forces of the US Military.
The UN needs to be dissolved. They are the most crooked organization on the planet.
It would be going on here if the media reported the facts.
Maybe this time they'll get to vote for someone better than Mubarak or his remnants, not worse.
Until the Muslims learn respect for one an other let alone different religions, they will always be fighting amongest themselves. Time for the rest of the world to say, O.K. do what you want in your country, but don't expect help for anyone else. Then lets see if they can totally destroy each other. A win win for everyone concerned. For the Muslims here in the USA, if you don't like it here go back to where you came from.
"Since Mubarak was toppled, Islamists have won two referendums, two parliamentary elections and a presidential vote."
Despite rigging the elections, Sunni Muslim Bloodhounds could not manage more than 65 percent of votes.
Whereas Mubarak used to get more than 90 percent in most of the elections.
If Mubarak with such astounding wins could be removed, what should be done with MBs and their front, Morsi, the Sunni Islamic curse on earth?
Come on Jonathan. Mubarak got 90% of the vote because only his supporters bothered to show up. Some of these posters here act like they have lived in Egypt and KNOW that Mubarak wasn't such a bad guy. Truth is he only lasted as long as he did with our tax dollars propping up their sad economy. He was getting rich off our tax dollars as well. Money for peace with Israel and to keep the Suez Canal open for business......thats it. The youth of Egypt want freedom and a chance to succeed.
A revolt against the revolution.
revolting, isn't it?
(hi chefaz ;-)
Hey Adam!!!
☺
No Way..... The Commander -in- Idiot and Hillary, have said the world is such a much better place because of their efforts...They give ("Give") them 20 F-16's and 200 M-1 Abram tanks...and now this....LMAO,,
Democrats....Responsible for everything,and "Accountable for Nothing!"
Democrats are bad for the country because they believe in big government. They want to give increasingly more rights to the government, including the right to trample the rights of the individual. And the result is a big government that spends more than the country can afford to spend.
Republicans on the other hand believe in the rights of the individual. They believe in small government. These are what is good about Republicans. However, the Republicans are also very bad for the country because they lack compassion. They are consumed by a deep hatred for minorities, women, and anyone who might need assistance from the community. They are so blinded by their burning desire to destroy their perceived enemies that they fail to see when they themselves are being enslaved by unethical corporations with the complicity of corrupt politicians.
Hopefully, a group of decent, moderate people will rise between these two groups before it is too late.
time to vote out ALL INCUMBENTS,no matter what they are,dem or republican,time to change this @!$%#hole we WILL BECOME before it's TOO LATE.
Don't count on Obama to do anything that might upset his Islamic buddies.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCAffMSWSzY
didnt barak husein obama attend an islamic grade school? and we should all be surprised he guided the brotherood to take over in egypt? called mubarek a dictator? at least mubarek was man enough to hold the brotherhood in check. careful what u wish for egyptians, you just may receive it!! lets hope you are enjoying the affects of who you voted in.
Recall the politicans and others who contributed to this mess. Fix the problem once and for all.
Islamic groups have caused so much suffering and hardship throughout the world that you would think people following this religion would stop and think about what they are doing to each other and the world. It is obvious that these groups are not considering anything but the need to control others through force. Americans would do well to separate from them for nothing good can come out of trying to stabalize Muslim dominated countries.
AMEN!
There in Lays the problem, they're not allowed to think, it's against Islam!
Acosmet Yes I know and there are horrible punishments for failing to adhere to Islams laws. Still they are human beings capable of critical thinking and therefore responsible for their actions just as Americans are responsible for their behaviors. America and the rest of the world has pretty much tried every possible strategy to stabilize these countries even in spite of the corruption that wants war to continue. In the end and if you look at the Islamic history they have always pushed against and tried to steal the lands of every other country they are allowed to enter. Convert leave or die has long been the credo of Islam. Most people do not realize that the holy war and Europeans sweeping into the Middle East was the direct result of decades of the Moors and then the Muslims pillaging European countries. Even during the period of 1500 to 1700 over one million white European slaves were taken by Muslims.
They "may be" capable, but the indoctrination is all consuming {kinda like Scientology}) and it's not allowed!
I have and idea, let's give them more M1A1's and F16's. How about a couple of nukes too Mr. Presisdent?
Its Bush and Romneys fault, just ask the Media and its patron saint Obama
hd:
Don't forget that evil Republican Congress.
I'm sure some youtube video nobody has seen has something to do with it too. Don't forget assault weapons, nicotine, and sodas bigger than 16oz.
I take that back. The ones involved in the revolution must just be "obstructionists" to progress.
The demonstrators accuse Mubarak's successor Morsi of betraying the two-year-old revolution. Morsi and his supporters accuse the protesters of seeking to overthrow Egypt's first ever democratically elected leader by undemocratic means
sorry your extremist regiem never made it to a democracy
one dictator to the next
i feel sorry for the egyption people they got dooped by militiants seeking to tie down everyone with the islamist extremes
which doesnt come close to a democracy
these rouge governments need to look closer at the united states and their democracy which alows everyone freedom not just islamist
that would include all races all religions
not just a religion who will kill you if you dont believe in it
get the picture???
good luck to the egyptian people who want freedom for all
I'm sure glad obama and hillary are so proud of themselves for this. What idiots. If obama wants to supply rebels, we have a lot in this country that could use some tanks and fighter aircraft.
America would be a better place if we shipped all the "everything is free" liberals over there so they could experience what the future holds for the USA if they keep demanding the working man provide fo their needy a**es!
I am sick and tired of my work paying for lazy liberals free housing, free food, free cell phone, free education, and now free healthcare so they can sit at home and watch tv!
Bravo! If the "I want everyone to be equal, but but reality doesn't give a @!$%#" crowd had to deal with the Third World Conditions in China or Thailand (or add oversocialized culture of your choice) they would @!$%# their pants. The lack of real liberty is palpable. I did two years of Field Work in the PRC. Don't want that crap here....
anothoer one of Obama's foreign policy success stories...
Like it matters anyway as they ALL hate us and only befriend us for a short period to get some money & hardware. Protect the Suez and let them kill each other, that would be the best bet. PRAISE BE TO ALLAH! For he is truely merciful LOL!
They hate us because we continue to interfere in their political and cultural domain. We need to be ready to repel foreign invaders, but reluctant participants in wars of aggression. -- The American warrior archetype for most of our history. Let's leave them alone, and expect them to leave us alone. When that doesn't happen -- when they bring their hatred (and destruction) here -- then we nuclear-glass-top their countries. They need to know that there are consequences for their actions. The loss of life is a tragedy, but also a necessity. We MUST protect our own.
Ha VicVega. I must have missed the 1st. Obama success story. Refresh my memory.
Obama and the democrates have set this course for the US!
Don't count on Obama to do anything that might upset his Islamic buddies.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCAffMSWSzY
.
The United States just sent Egypt $400,000--part payment of $1.5 billion dollars the the U.S. sends Egypt every year----what happened to that money--or the $70,000,000,000.00 sent to Egypt so far--SAD
America's future! Especially when Obama brings in immigrants by the thousands with free healthcare, housing, foodstamps, EBT cards, and of course Obamaphones. Oh, how the mighty have fallen.
There's a clown in the WH that does a lot of finger wagging too. Finger wagging seems to have the same effect on everyone.
odumbo built this!
The President is responsible for the outcome of a democratic election in another country?
Wow!
what democratic election are you talking about petemt?
@#$@ - there was a LOT of sarcasm in my post.
We all know that wasn't what that 'election' was.
Egypt has for centuries been ruled non-democratically. Most Egyptians just wanted Mubarak out, he had been ruling for 30 years, Egypt was not prosperous except for a very few - corruption was/is rampant and most people, if they have a job, earn $2.00 a day. In general Egyptians prefer rules - rules that are clear and not dictated by religion or changing on a breeze - two major things that Morsi and the MB did wrong.
In a 2012 survey, the top 5 things that Egyptians wanted (in order) were: Fair judiciary (81%), Improved Economic Conditions (81%), Uncensored Media (62%), Freedom of Speech (60%) - I would take this all with a grain of salt as it was a Pew survey, but it does reflect what the Egyptians hoped to gain to ousting Mubarak (with the help of the US).
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/01/25/the-surprising-priorities-of-egypts-public/
Nearly 33% of those aged 0-14 are unemployed - we all know 2 year olds do not work, those that are employed range from 30 to 64 years, however, Egypt does have a problem in that they do not have many skilled workers, most are poorly educated.
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:b-be9csYy2EJ:www.arab-api.org/conf_0308/p7.pdf+&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESiXbx_CvhCbmffRgcpwtpfh2gbeqO_1vQRVVXr_DpGwVV-azpeBxMQ_f2bv3F4JY-Ug5C8riS7Ypt1qEAWovdXt4P8a9aTBph52G2mnOMKebnoQPGOhFFPY6pWkA73UdBvajC8Z&sig=AHIEtbRjPHGhyk21qcVhqIx7lU6ERPtGMA
Youth (teenage being 15+ - the age formal education ends for many) unemployment, poverty and Morsi's MB making up rules as they go, will lead to more bloodshed in Egypt. So why did Hillary Clinton - the first of any Western country welcome Morsi, former head of the MB? I can't read minds, but there are whispers that if the West can destabilize all countries surrounding Iran, Iran will fold quickly (or it will remain neutral and contained)- Iran is not the end game, when the West controls the entire Mid-East - it can control China and India. It is one of the only ways to keep the West "on top" - by restricting and destabilizing the economies of the highly populated and highly skilled workers in the two nations that are up and coming industrial powerhouses.
The US failed Egypt, not monetarily but in every other way. Had the US stopped supporting Egypt, the people would understand clearly why some leaders do what they do, sending money does nothing, sending troops brings grief...so - of course the West will make statements such as the violence on both sides must stop, etc...blah, blah - the West will sit back and watch the death toll rise, they will "condemn" those that use force but really the West will sit this out in terms of action, just like Syria, Rwanda, Libya, Bahrain, Sudan, Jordan, Lebanon, Algeria and many more... notice the locals (with the exception of Rwanda where Nato did nothing to stop the horrific massacres.