Damn right, JJD. While the US and Brits were screwing up left and right trying to get their act together, the Russians, in what has to be the most heroic effort in human history, saved our asses. Stalin wasn't any saint, for sure, but you gotta give the guy credit for having the cojones for doing what had to be done. No one in any modern leadership position has stones like that anymore.

The weather beat the Germany Armies, not the Russia.

Stalin wasn't any saint, for sure, but you gotta give the guy credit for having the cojones for doing what had to be done

Russia had signed a non agression pact with Hitler. Hitler was the one that had helped us with the D-Day landings by attacking Russia first and opening up a second front and splitting his forces on the Atlantic wall. Stalin had no choice but to fight Germany.

"GeneralEclectic

Damn right, JJD. While the US and Brits were screwing up left and right trying to get their act together, the Russians, in what has to be the most heroic effort in human history, saved our asses. Stalin wasn't any saint, for sure, but you gotta give the guy credit for having the cojones for doing what had to be done. No one in any modern leadership position has stones like that anymore."

Really? What history books did you read comrade? Joey was a murdering tyrant rated as number #2 behind Hitler in body count for the 20th century...

Give the guy credit huh? For doing what had to be done? Guess you`re all for the Assault weapons bill too? IMHO you need to review 20th century history pal...

The Germans and Russians hated each other to a degree we can never appreciate. Germany had a population in the 60 millions and managed to put 3 million troops in the Poland Russian border the day they invaded Russia. Later they had 5 million in Russia. Germany lost 200,000 in Stalingrad before the last 98,000 surrendered and marched off to Siberia. When the Russians started their massive offensives during and after Stalingrad, after they had already lost many millions of troops, they had around 20 million lined up against the Germans. In the final two weeks of the war with the German Army destroyed Berlin was being defended by 60 year old WWI vets and 12 to 14 yr old boys with panzerfausts and the Russians lost 400,000 in the Berlin battle alone. They had thousands of artillery and thousands of tanks and still charged battalions of infantry into the face of 88mm's and machine guns. But read the account from the old Soviet Vet - he was proud to do it. They wanted to kill Germans so bad they faithfully walked against machine guns. Thankfully Americans Commanders and troops don't think like that. The willingness on both sides to put that many people against the other, the willingness by the leaders to send that many people to doom is incomprehensible. And it was all only 20 years after they had killed millions of each other in WWI. The whole thing is so incredible it boggles the imagination. The numbers are staggering.

rgculver

The weather beat the Germany Armies, not the Russia.

Same to Napoleon and his Imperial Army.

Staling is complicit with Hitler in the assassination of Jews.

The only reason Russia was an ally in WWII, it was because we got a common enemy Germany and the Nazi Party. Staling and the Socialist make of Russia a country of terror , a treat to the world and their own citizens and their freedom.

Now we're blaming the weatherman for the German defeat at Stalingrad? They didn't know winter comes? Methinks rampant idiocy has a name, and its name is "look at my posts".

IReadyou

Thank you for a intelligent and well reasoned post. The only one that made sense so far.

Rich69

During WWII, it was common for the German armed forces to state that their biggest threat in Russia was not the Soviets, but "General Winter". The German armies were stopped literally at the gates, 19 miles to be precise, from the domes of the Kremlin in Moscow during "Operation Barbarossa" by the worst winter storms in decades.

Russia was an ally of convenience in WWII, but credit needs to be given to the Russian people. The Russians had the Germans retreating back across the eastern front in Europe by the time of the D-Day invasion in June of 1944. We have never really given the Russians the credit they deserve because they were a cold war adversary of ours immediately after the war. Counting both German and Russian casualties, there was 5 times as many killed in just the Battle of Stalingrad as the US lost in the entire war. Stalin was a monstrous dictator on a scale with Hitler and Mao, but the Russian people deserves recognition for their sacrifices in WWII.

...rampant idiocy has a name and its name is "look at my posts".

Actually, rich, rgculver is not that far from being right. The weather and the vastness of the country both were important factors in the Soviet defeat of the Germans.

Stalingrad sealed the fate of Nazi Germany - DEFEAT.

The actual turning point of WW II was the Battle of Moscow. The Germans lost 500,000 troops and the "cream of the crop" of the Wehrmacht was lost to attrition and frostbite. It is tough to start a gasoline engine when the temperature is - 40; unless you train in Siberia the way that the USSR tank divisions did. Hitler adopted a "hedgehog" defense to prevent the total destruction on Army Group Centre, and Hitler have his famous "One step back" order. If a Nazi soldier took a step backward to retreat, he was shot by his own officers. The Nazis had nothing to take on the T-34 on a large scale until July of 1943.

The only reason that the US invaded mainland Europe was to make sure that the USSR did not end at the English Channel.

The outcome of WW II was determined on the Eastern Front, not the Western Front. Eighty percent of the Nazi war effort was on the Eastern Front.

The US took up right where Hitler left off in the war against godless communism. The atomic bombs was a Nazi invention. So were ICBMs. So were swept wing jet bombers with axial flow jet engines. HItler had his sights on Moscow, and so did the US.

War is Hell. The US has been in Hell since 12/7/41. Look around you to see it. Endless meaningless wars. A bankrupt country. No leadership. Predatory homosexual roman catholic priests. What a mess!

When was the last victory parade? 1945?

Wow Integral: you have a lot there. I agree most with your: "Endless meaningless wars". Except they do have meaning. It's all about enriching Cheney's Military Industrial Complex. Ike warned of this. War spending is seriously destructive at the level we are at. And due to the dumbing down of our population it has even been reported in the last 48 hours that the economy retracted in the 4th Q due to a reduction in military spending! No reporter or analysist has challenged this assertion. IT is insanity. The economy retracted because the US has lost it's way. People now think a casino is an economic engine while a factory is bad. They have stopped trying to build and invent things are all about trying to qualify for some benefits the "other" guy is supposed to pay for. Our dumbed down society sees nothing wrong with this.

This is always the puzzle of history. Few leaders are 100% good or 100% bad. Hitler built the Autobahns and brought Germany out of the economic fiefdon of WWI. Some of the most horrible leaders of ancient (and modern) Rome build amazing public infrastructure while conducting a barbaric public policy such as the persecution of Christians. The list goes on and on.

The Old Testament writers had the right idea. They knew all men were a mixture of good and bad. They threw the bad into the trash can and cast the good --- sometimes only a single act or thought or quality --- into the form of Angels. Modern people tend to think of Angels as supernatural or metaphysical beings, but the historical evidence is that they were real individual or collective people --- just stripped of all their bad qualities and past sins. Reading the Bible in that context makes a surprising difference in "believability".

There is a similar process with historians where efforts tend to "sanitize" our heroes. Washington was portrayed (falsely) as a child cutting down a cherry tree to illustrate the point that he was generally truthful. And Thomas Jefferson's bipolar issues are seldom discussed in his biographies.

I guess that the people of Volgagrad should be allowed to do the same thing. He did some pretty impressive things during WWII, and they are often mentioned in history books camoflaged by a smoke screen of hundreds of generals. He managed to outwit Roosevelt and Churchill at Yalta, as evidenced by the results. But even this was blamed on Roosevelt being ill and Churchill grinding other axes at the time.

But you know, Stalin was a complex man with many sides --- some of them good.

Blaming the weather for Germany's defeat, especially at Stalingrad is specious. Germany started its campaigns early in the spring/summer do that they would have plenty of time to complete them before rainy/cold weather set in. The problem was that the Russians wear able to stall the German drives for months and months until the weather was such that the Germans could not cope.

Stalin's most brilliant moves were things like moving all Soviet industry --- lock, stock and barrel so far to the east that it was well outside the reach of German bombers. (Remember that Germany had no long-range bombers.) Stalin also created a huge technological jump that ended up producing the best tank of the war (the T-34d+) and the best tank killed aircraft (the IL-2/IL-10 Sturmovik) in the war. While I am sure that some posters would say they, for example with the Sturmovik, that Stalin had little to do with it, that is not true. Stalin was famous for dealing with a situation where the factories were not producing more Sturmoviks than the Germans werer shooting down. Stalin sent an angrily-worded cable to the factory manager, stating "They are as essential to the Red Army as air and bread." I demand more machines. This is my final warning!" The result was the most-produced aircraft in military history.

So saying that it was the weather simply does not stand up. While Russian winters were brutal, the weather west of Moscow was no more brutal than northern German. The real reason the Germans lost was that the Soviets were aable to field far more armed men, logistics (railways), aircraft, and tanks than the Germans --- by a factor of six.

Hitler's Germany and Stalin's Russia were two sides of the same coin...1984 meets Animal Farm.

Had Hitler not betrayed Stalin, and had Stalin not recklesly sacrificed 25% of the men of fighting age in the Soviet Union between the summer of 1941 and the winter of 1943, the world as we know it would look very different.

Had Stalin not been such a monster against the Russian people the Germans would have been driven back earlier and with fewer Russian dead?

Was Stalin even Russian or was he another nationality?

The most terrible of the most terrible Czars? Was he proud of that?

But the Russians chewed up and ground to dust the greatest German army ever put in the field.

The little Russian airplane that cut its motor off at night,special nighttime pilot probably ate a lot of carrots and slept in the daytime,glided in at night,dropped a small bomb(it was a little airplane)onto the sleeping German encampment,then started his motor and made his escape--night after night after night until the Germans couldn't sleep anymore.

"I categorically do not justify Stalin's repressions, but you have to recognize the positive things he did, whether you want to or not," said Gamlet

No, we don't have to recognize. Similar statements have also been made about hitler. Sorry, but when your "bad" seriously outweighs your "good", why would anyone think that "good" was an intended result for any endeavor???

Good afternoon, Ed.

During WWII, it was common for the German armed forces to state that their biggest threat in Russia was not the Soviets, but "General Winter". The German armies were stopped literally at the gates, 19 miles to be precise, from the domes of the Kremlin in Moscow during "Operation Barbarossa" by the worst winter storms in decades.

Well stated. ☺

Chris,

"Blaming the weather for Germany's defeat, especially at Stalingrad is specious."

Sorry to disagree with you Chris, but history says otherwise. Yes, Germany did indeed start Operation Barbarossa in the early spring/summer of 1941. What you failed to mention that the German timetable was upset by Germany having to deal with the anti NAZI/Fascist coup in Yugoslavia and precious time was spent subduing that country before the attack on Russia began. That almost month long delay cost Hitler precious campaigning time before the onset of winter. As I stated above, that winter was one of the worst winters in almost 50 years. The Germans anticipated capturing Moscow prior to the onset of winter. That same winter was severe enough to severely hamper the German efforts to resupply their troops. Contrary to popular belief, much of the German transport capability at that time of the war mostly horse drawn. The Russian road system was primitive at best during the spring and summer. It winter they became almost impassible due to mud and snow. Even tracked vehicles had plenty of trouble. The German Wehrmacht had decent cold weather gear in rear area supply centers, but said gear was of low priority, as fuel and ammunition were the top priority.

Yes, Stalin did have some flashes ob brilliance. I agree with your statement regarding Russia's industrial base. I think the most single war winning move he made was to dismantle entire factories in the face of the German onslaught, and transfer and reassemble the East of the Ural Mountains out of reach of German bombers. As regards the IL-2/IL-10. First off, at the the beginning of the German invasion, Russia possessed only 249 IL-2's in operational service, and those were the single seat variant. These were not very effective. It was not until 1942 that the two seat version appeared. So the IL-2 was not a significant factor in the first half of the war. As regards the T-34 tank. Those were in fact available at the beginning of the invasion, but the Soviets really did not understand how to utilize them to their best potential. It must be remembered that Stalin's pre-war purge of the officer corps gutted the ranks of experienced officer that knew how to use them effectively. As a result, the learning curve was not the best. As a result, early t-34's were decimated by German PzKw IV's and Stug III's, both armed with high velocity 75mm main guns. German tactics and communications were also better. I am trying to figure out what you meant by T34d+. The actual designation for the tank was T-34/75 for the first half of the war. This was later superceded by the T-34/85, and the JS-1 and JS-2 heavy tanks.

The IL-2 Sturmovic, while an excellent ground attack aircraft had serious competition as the best tank buster in the German Junkers JU-87G Stuka. This aircraft was armed with twin forward firing gondola mounted 37mm anti-tank guns firing high velocity armor piercing rounds slung under each wing. Preferred method of attack was to attack the Russian tanks from behind in the engine compartment where they were the least armored. Hans-Ulrich Rudel, the most decorated German military person of WWII, destroyed over 500 Soviet tanks using this model of the JU-87.

All in all it is in fact fair to say that the weather played a vital part in German plans and defeat at Stalingrad. It took the Soviets until at least 6 months or more of the siege of Stalingrad to get their act together as viable fighting force capable of taking on the German on at least equal terms. The Soviets had a much shorter supply line than the Germans and said supply line was not hampered by harsh weather to the degree that the the Germans had to contend with. The rest, as is so often said, is history.

Second rate divisions???? Tell that to the Vet"s that went up against the SS units right after the landings.... 1st SS Paner Division, 3rd and 15th SS Divisions and the Hitler Jugend. Hardly second rate.

"indigena

The Red Army lost more soldiers at Stalingrad than the US Army lost in the whole war, yet they won the battle."

Gee, that's a great testimonial to Soviet battle tactics and their regard for human life, huh?

" By D-Day, the Soviets had pushed the Nazis back a thousand kilometers. The Red Army faced the Nazi's 150 best divisions on the Eastern Front and defeated them, while the US, British and French combined faced 30 second rate divisions in the West."

Tell that to the veterans of 2nd SS Division "Das Reich", and 10th SS division "Frundsburg" pal...

2nd rate huh? You need to re-read some history here...

@indigina is correct.

When Hitler opened the Eastern Front, he sent all his best divisions, believing that he could take a line that included both Moscow and the Baku oil fields and then replace those troops with fresh divisions from Europe. His reasoning was that the Allies could not mount an invasion before spring 1946. So the divisions in Europe were mostly a handful of "cadre" divisions with the remainder being new conscripts with little training and surprisingly poor equipment.

When Rommel saw this, he reorganized the German troops into three lines: a group with good training and equipment along the coastline, a line 100km inland that had poor training and poor equipment, and large strategic reserves that were heavy with tanks and motorized infantry. A large part of the success of the D-Day landings was that intelligence people created enough confusion as to the "real" landing location that Rommel was unable to commit his reserves until it was too late.

In two wars the American public was exposed to huge amounts of propaganda that actually portrayed the German forces as much more powerful and larger than they actually were. The prime objectives of this propaganda was twofold: 1) to give war industry workers incentive to produce more and 2) to make sure that Congress appropriated large amounts of money to fight them. The fact was that Germany was a relatively small country with no real chance of winning the war. Stalin was the first to see this and wanted a major chunk of the war spoils (which he got.)

that is correct. HE was a pyschopath. Others suffering meant nothing to him.

True, Stalin killed more people than Hitler ever did, but he also is the reason the USSR became an industrialized nation, so I guess Russians think the outcome was good, so now they will celebrate him.

"After Stalin had pushed Hitler back between june 1941 and june 1944, most of the Germans best forces were killed or captured. All Hitler had left was second rate troops"

Really? Tell that to the veterans that faced the 6th SS Panzer Army at the liitle town of Bastogne...

2nd rate huh? You need to review your personal data-base there pal...

Tell that to indigena on post #2. By the way, we DID accomplish the landing, so we were better than they were.

Not true... The Panzer divisions that kept us pinned to the Normandy coast for two months, including the Panzer Lehr and Hitlerjugend divisions, were first rate. Breaking out of Normandy was a great, although at times flawed (hint, Mony at Caen and Villers Bocage!), achievement.

The 6th panzer div got mauled at Bastogne

http://www.thegermanwarmachine.com/waffenss/1944/defeatofthe6thpanzerarmy.aspx

The Normandy breakout.

http://www.worldwar2database.com/html/breakout.htm

Just because we defeated them doesn't mean that the divisions faced in the Normandy campaign were second rate. Aside from the volksgrenadiers and the festungkompanies (fortress companies, like we faced defending the beach on D-Day), there were a number of truly veteran, fanatic and elite units on the German side of the invasion.

The Allies, however, had more manpower and more equipment. The Germans had, overall, better equipment, which made up for a number of their shortcomings on manpower, but not enough to throw the balance (things like the Panther tank, Konigstiger, MG 42 machine gun, Stg44 assault rifle, panzerfaust, etc).

To state that the German forces were "second rate" is to truly show your ignorance of history and disrespects the veterans of the Normandy campaign by downplaying the tenacity and stubbornness of those they fought. Many of the German forces in Normandy had fought on the Eastern Front before being redeployed to the Western Front, and thus had considerable experience in battle.

As an example, the 12th SS Panzerdivision "Hitlerjugend" was comprised of experienced veterans of the Eastern Front filling the senior NCO and officer positions, and indoctrinated and fanatical Hitler Youth filling the ranks. With the combination of elite and veteran members of the 1st SS Panzerdivision "Liebstandarte SS Adolf Hitler" and the fanatical children of the Hitler Youth, a unit which was prepared to continue fighting no matter the casualties, and with experienced tacticians leading their maneuvers, they proved to be a VERY tough opponent for the Allied forces. They suffered from a lack of air support as the Allies controlled the skies at this point of the war, and a lack of manpower, and thus were battered down by the sheer volume of air attacks and artillery strikes that the Allies could throw at them.

And that was just one of the many elite and fanatical units that fought the Allies in Normandy.

You all are talking about Rommel's Order of Battle. When Rommel was defeated in North Africa (tell you anything 0-1) he was put in charge of defending Europe. What he saw appalled him --- poorly trained units with no where near their ToE because everything was goint to the Eastern Front. The biggest problem was fuel, however.

So what he did was to put his moderately-trained forced along the coast. Inland 50-100km back was another line of poorly trained and poorly equipped units. In an invasion these would have been cannabalized for replacement men and equipment. And at three points he had his best trained troops --- including a handful of crack Panzer divisions --- as a tactical reserve. They would simply allow a beachhead to be established and then crush it with a Panzer-led counterattack. Hitler (and Rommel) did not believe that the Allies could attack before Spring of 1946, citing Sheridan and the American Civil War as the type of generals leading the Allies.

But the Allies had a much better intelligence operation thay anything the Germans could dream of. But they did several crucial things: a) they rounded up every single German spy in Engline --- absolutely every single one --- and turned them so they were feeding the Germans tons of bad info on Allied preparedness. b) They airdropped French-Canadian troops into France with the mission of destroying all landine communications, expecially switches and trunklines. c) they were intercepting virtually all of German military radio and decrypting it, but the Germans were using landlines for the really important stuff. Destroying the landlines forced this important traffice temporarily onto radio. d) they created an elaborate diversion to cause the Germans to believe that Pas d'Callais was the landing area.

Rommel was caught completely by surprise when the Allies came 2 years early. And he was told first that the landing was at Pas D'Calais and it was confirmed. Rommel started moving reserves, especially fuel trucks, toward that area, but held his reserves back. Then word came simutaneously of a landing at Normandy and that the Pas D'Calais landing was a diversion. Too late. The Allies took the Peninsula fairly handily but seemed to stall. What was happening was that the Allies were chewing up all of Rommel's replacements as fast as they were coming in. This was creating an expanding hole in German lines. So when he finally "unpinned" his reserves and threw them into battle, they tried, but were far too small a force to plug a hole that size. The Allies literally swallowed the couinterattack because during the period when it seemed that they were stalled, they were actually not only creating a hole, but were bringing in huge amounts of men and equipment. Too bad, Rommel. It was such a disaster for the Germans that uber-patriotic Rommel joined a coup attempt that planned to kill Hitler and sue for peace using a return to previous borders as their carrot. That tells you how badly the Normandy landing chewed up the Germans.

American propaganda made much of German technology. But it was a facade. The Tiger tank was too complicated and too fuel-hungry and too heavy for prime time as an example. Sure they came up with jets and rockets and other major advances but they were too little and far too late and the Allies were right on their heels with these and far ahead in areas such as ASW and radar and intelligence. And by comparison the Allies were developing the a-bomb while the Germans were trying to come up with a better troop transport.

Jon-P

All that counts in war is the last man standing wins with the most toys. Nothing else matters. Japan had the best fighter aircraft,could out maneuver us in every respect, but were matchboxes. At the end of the war, they had the worlds BIGGEST underwater Navy. I'm not disrespecting them at all, it is just we were better than them plain and simple.

I believe that by D Day the Germans had lost air superiority over France to Britain and the USA.

Starbuck

It was the 6th Panzer Army under the command of of OberstGruppenfuhrer Sepp Dietrich that faced the the Americans at the Battle of The Bulge in December 1944.. Not the 6th Panzer "Division".

correct. When you have massive resources as Stalin did, even though you waste fabulous amounts of it, you can still get what you want because you simply have more than the other guy. I read of a captured German Officer who was asked by the American officer about the events leading to his capture. The Germans were knocking out Sherman's with an 88. The German said he was only captured "because he ran out of shells but you did not run out of tanks". The industrial capacity we had won the war. We have since given that advantage away. God help us if we ever get in a major war again. We have no depth to our manufacturing.

@IReadYou,

At the start of the war, Stalin did not have "massive resources." In fact what he had was a smallish army that was poorly trained, poorly equipped, and with leadership that was highly questionable. His couldtry was poorly industrialized and even that was concentrated in the West within striking distance of Germany. So Stalin did the only thinjg he could --- he used his only reseource, the number of men in his army. So he "soaked off" hundreds of thousands of soldiers to buy time. With that time he conscripted millions of troops, moved all of Soviet industry --- every brick of factories --- beyond the Ural mountains and out of reach of Germany, and pushed through advances in equipment that included the T-34 tank (the best tank of WWII) and the IL-2/IL-10 Sturmavik that was the best tactical fighter and tank killer of the war. The personal arms for Russian troops --- pistols and rifles ---- were designed to work in sub-zero cold by having looser tolerances. The Germans who insisted on tight tolerances ended up with rifles and pistols that didn't work in the cold. And that's just one example.

Yeah, Stalin lost millions of troops and even more civilians. But that was his only choice. And it worked. Every modern-day Russian knows about it and how many were lost but there is no one in Russia that would say that Stalin should have fought more conservatively. You're right about industrial capacity, but it was more the Russian buildup of industrial capacity than the American one that won the war.

Your name sounds Italian. Since when were Italians part of the Natzi masterrace?

My German mother was raped by a pizza shop owner and she gave me his name because she thought it sounded better than Joe Schmittendorf.

I guess your mom had to do that, the name Obama was taken.

Wow, paidmyfee, how many grades did you have to repeat to come up with that amazingly useless post?

Ramble On!

Greg:Kinda like Gov Christy, huh.

Well they are pretty factual. What are you trying to say?

Wikipedia has made everyone an expert in everything.

The Dog-1572444

Well I’m trying to say that these people may be coming off with some facts and sounding like they know everything but their analysis is pretty basic and poor.

He did not murder the numbers you state. That was the total number of Russian dead during the war. Get your facts straight before you speak.

“I don't want ever to see another Hitler, nor another Stalin.”

Did you see the first ones? That’d make you pretty dam old, no offense

JOHN H.-822341

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2011/mar/10/hitler-vs-stalin-who-killed-more/?pagination=false

Losmuertos

I lived in Vladivostok from 1951 to 1960. I was born in 1949 in New York. Stalin died in 1953. We went there in 1951 for my grandmothers funeral and it took us 9 years for the US State Department to get us back home, I was 4 years old when he died and lived the rest of the years under Khrushchev. I have lived under communism and believe me, this country is totally wrong in saying Obama is trying to make the USA into a communist country. They were both butchers, along with Hitler.

starbuck49

Ah, well I didn’t mean any offense but still anyone alive today to have seen Hitler and Stalin first hand would be old. Oh and I agree with you that people who say Obama is trying turn America into a Communist Country are wrong and are just using the whole “socialism” argument as a blanket buzz statement

From a pure historal viewpoint, neither Germany nor Japan stood a chance in WWII. It was more retribution than the evenly-matched fight that many think. Japan especially had absolutely no route to a win and was in a situation that was impossible to defend. And Germany wasn't much better.

Well put Pilot.

I'd just add that WWII started as a result of Britain, quickly followed by France, trying to enforce their joint guarantee of Poland's frontiers in 1939 by declaring war on Germany.

The irony is that when the Red Army crossed Poland's eastern border some three weeks after the Germans did in the west, both Britain and France opted out of grappling with the Bear. Too much to handle I guess...

Actually, Hitler gave lousy speeches. He was Austrian, not German and he spoke with a thick Austrian accent. Germans, because they were until recently a number of city-states, spoke a number of dialects. A person from Austria would have trouble understanding a Berliner, for example, even though they both spoke German. This was the early days of both microphones and radio. For most listeners in radion, Hitler was almost impossible to understand because of the low quality of the sound and Hitler's accent. Even people in halls and other places where Hitler spoke complained of the difficulty of understand him when he got wound up.

It is a myth that Hitler was a great public orator.

it's all BS anyhow but my guess would be Lenin and Trotsky, the fathers of the revolution. Being that they are still pretty much communists in the spirit they are not going to give the famous positions to the Romanov family. I think it should be Nureyev and Tchaikovsky.

Harris

We should have let them starve, they never said thank you. The world would be better off without the commies. The only good thing coming out of Russia is vodka and some of their hot babes.

Millions of Russians did starve, some became cannibals.

You are onto something there...guess that's why people still vote Republican LOL