AustinK, you are a sheep. The words sounds fine, "We the people", but in practice, the people do not have the power, the money does. Corporations have all the rights of "people" in the US. Now, we are a lot better off than Egypt, but don't fall into the illusion that the people in this country have any real power.

we're sending them to the military, nor morsi. try to pay attention.

Its more likely the military will depose him than support him.

But Morsi's Generals run the Military.

Try to keep up with current events.

Slodon, there have been murmurings within the military establishment that they will not work against the people and some analysts suspect they may instigate a coup if Morsi cannot stop the chaos. They've threatened Morsi that if he does not come to the table and reach compromise with the opposition the military will ensure calm.

No Slodon the Generals DO NOT answer to Morsi!!! I have posted the Military structure for the last several articles so people know how the military here works. You might want to read those posts. Or if you would like I will copy it over to this article. No Alias Adam is correct!! The Military is there to support the people....not the government.

No Slodon the Generals DO NOT answer to Morsi!!!

A MULTIPLE CHOICE QUESTION.

Do you think Americans are

A.. Dumb?

B.. never read a @!$%#ing newspaper?

or perhaps

C.... I'm a member of the Muslim Brotherhood and it's just a job?

Egyptian President Mohamed Morsi has driven back the biggest challenge to civilian rule by dismissing top generals

and appointed new Generals, ones who serve at his pleasure.

and tearing up their legal attempt to curb his power in a bold bid to end 60 years of military leadership.

Taking the country by surprise, Morsi pushed Field Marshal Hussein Tantawi into retirement on Sunday after heading the military forces for two decades.

Appointing a man he can trust.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/08/2012813162428266867.html

@ kpr37 I do not know what you are. You have your biases and choose not to be educated. I am here, I know some of the Generals.....there are many of them. As I had stated in several of the previous article, as has Coptic Christian, the Secularists and Coptic Generals outnumber the MB appointees. Further they are not allowed to vote or show allegiance to the government. If so, the S.C.A.F. removes them from their positions.

You obviously did not read the posts in the previous articles which stated Tantawi had retired. Further I even named at least one of the Coptic generals who will not allow things to get out of control. You can quote Al Jazeera until you are blue in the face, but those of us who are here, are scholars in the field (and there are many of us) know what is going on. We have faith and knowledge in the culture and Egypt of this country.

Your "Multiple Choice Questions" are inappropriate and lack reasonable discourse. If I were to say ALL Americans are "dumb" I would have to include myself in that category. I am highly educated and aware of what is going on here. (2) You lower yourself to use apparently foul and debase language so you are unable to hold your position.

Try opening our mind, stop going to secondary sources, and try to listen to the people who are actually here.

@ kpr37 I do not know who or what you are. However, obviously you have not read any of my posts (or the posts from Coptic Christian for that matter) that delineates the Military structure and their function. Further, your "Multiple Choice Question" is highly inappropriate. In the first place, if I were to say ALL Americans are "dumb" (as you put it) I would have to include myself in that category for I AM an American. And I am highly educated, have lived here several years studying the culture. In the second place, you feel the need to lower yourself in an apparent use of foul and debase language, thereby discrediting any argument you might have. Finally, you can quote Al Jazeera until you are blue in the face, for the tome has no credibility and has lied on numerous occasions. they do not have the literary standards that the States or Europe does.

I recommend you read the posts in the previous articles in which I delineate the Military structure here, pay attention to Coptic Christians posts, become familiar with the difference between primary and secondary sources (Al Jazeera being a secondary source at best), and take a course on proper debating and blogging etiquette for your manners are atrocious. It might help you in the long run to seek a more effective and creditable argument and a more gentle and kind stance.

@bow2me Vermont Guy actually did not "blow it" as you stated. He seems more aware of the Military structure and its purpose than many who have posted in these last few articles. Morsi tried to appoint new generals, but those generals are being kept in line by the many, MANY other generals who are secularists and Copts. I believe they are finding out the hard way, that they really have no power for they no longer can vote, or intimidate people. Some have tried and they have been demoted by the S.C.A.F or removed from their positions. One of the Generals has even been sent to the farthest most post in the Nubian Desert to isolate him for his actions.

The S.C.A.F is also working with the Shiek of the Grand Mosque (As Coptic Christian and I have both reported in earlier articles) and H. H. Pope Tadros to see what they can all do to end the violence. As of today, Morsi is feeling the pressure for he know he is now in the minority.

At the time of the elections, the opposition parties (El Baredi & Amr Moussa's groups) were only loosely organized. These two (2) bright and intelligent men have come together, along with many of the Secularists, and are a more cohesive party. When the final balloting took place, the people only had two (2) candidates to choose from....Shafik who was involved in the Mubarak regime and Morsi who claimed he had renounced his MB membership. Many of the complaints were about being only allowed to choose between the two (2) men. So, many of the people took the untried and eloquent (at the time) Morsi who smoothly talked his way into power. Over time, he (and his wife as well) have begun to show their true colors (so to speak). This is why the people are taking it to the streets. They will not rest until they have their way to a more open and civil form of democracy.

Democracy is a process that they are trying to find their footing. It is fascinating to watch and observe these strong people (The Youth, Secularists, Liberals, women, etc) fighting for something they just now have had a taste of. the communication through social media is extraordinary.

Sadly, religion is showing up in Government at the state level as we speak. There are 6 states who may have abortion outlawed in the next few weeks by using loopholes that have nothing to do with abortion. What's next, jail time for intercourse outside of wedlock or divorces?

River, you sound like you need mental health - badly@!!!!

How so Ed? Am I making it up that some State Governments are trying to outlaw abortions or do you think religious beliefs should be enforced by Government? Arizona is attempting to make it a felony that a doctor would serve jail time if they perform an abortion on a rape victim because that would be "tampering with evidence." The state of my mental health is fine, which is what I assume you were refering too. It would be silly and poor articulation to tell someone they need mental health, which everyone obviously has, whether it be poor or good.

They were ready for democracy at one time. But Morsi's election and control by the MB ended all hope for peace in Egypt...

I suspect that the military will give Morsi an ultimatum; either meet with and compromise with the opposition or they depose him. The military does not want chaos. The military has as hand in everything in Egypt from manufacturing to resorts. Their bread and butter depend on stability so they'll work to retain it. Not such a bad thing in my opinion.

The Egyptians have been ready for democracy for a very long time. Now that they have had a taste of it they will not revert back. I have been here during the season since 1997. The revolution only took place two (2) years ago. It is still very new here. The U.S. has had a democracy for 200 years (ish) and still it is not a perfect thing.

The S.C.A.F have already told Morsi they will not fire on the people. Morsi is not the brightest crayon in the box (SO to speak) and is weak in diplomacy and honesty. Most likely he will step down. If not he will be deposed.

@bow2me no bow2me, they do not control the Military or S.C.A.F. Please see my post further down this page and it might help you understand what is going on.

In kind regards.

@ No Alias Adam You articulated the Military position very well. Thank you for that. Hopefully some will listen to you on this blog.

KENAJnone, tell me what would have happened if America would have intervened and said "I know you Egyptians just threw out a dictator, and I know you are voting overwhelmingly for Morsi, but we are going to decide who your next leader is because it can't be Morsi." The U.S. government did not put him in office or support him, the Egyptian people did before he showed his new colors. What is the terrorist's main rhetoric? "That the American Pigs want to control Middle Eastern countries and enslave all Arabs." Don't you think America telling a sovereign nation who can and can't be their leader would maybe convert a few people to that belief? And before you blame Obama for whatever happens in Syria, I think his limited involvement has been the best choice. Do you prefer McCain's reccommendation that we should send thousands of ground troops into Syria to help the rebels who you say are the Muslim Brotherhood?

From the Guardian, maybe respected as one of the most unbiased media networks in the world.

The Muslim Brotherhood's Mohammed Morsi has become Egypt's first freely elected president after a delayed announcement of the results of last weekend's runoff. He beat former prime minister Ahmed Shafiq by more than almost 900,000 votes. Morsi secured 51.7% of the vote, compared to 48% for Shafiq.

So there is fallacy #1 of your post. 51% of voters did vote for him, as in every election there was voter intimidation etc, still doesn't change my statement that more Egyptians voted for him than other candidates.

When Morsi was running for election that was pretty much ALL they talked about. How great democracy was going to be for Egypt

They sure did talk about how great a Democracy was going to be for Egypt, they never once said that Morsi would bring that Democracy or that he should be elected. Keywords in your post, "when Morsi was running for election," that means other people were running for election too. That also means an election was occurring which was a very exciting Democratic accomplishment. I challenge you to find a credible source to support your claim that the Obama administration specifically supported Morsi as I have done to support statements. If you've done the research as you claim I haven't(I cited a source that isn't American since you say our media doesn't report the truth), then show it to me. Where did the Obama administration specifically support Morsi?

The U.S. has interfered in Egypt and else where, supporting the M.B.

Yes, they did intervene in Egypt, long before there was a M.B. candidate. The U.S. helped civilians who were dying in the street overthrow a dictator and then left the fate of the country in the Egyptian's hands, as they should have done. The U.S. had no control over how the country would vote or who would run as a candidate.

Your references to Syria have absolutely nothing to do with U.S. involvement, only internal politics between different groups in Syria. I have also done my research and according to the London Times on an article by Christina Lamb the United States told the rebels that if they coordinated together, that they would receive U.S. Aid. The rebels informed the U.S. that both al-Qaeda and the M.B. were involved in the fighting also, and that they wouldn't coordinate with them. The U.S. decided that was a reasonable answer and still provided hundreds of laptops that can function outside of state service providers along with weapons to the rebels who refused to work with al-Qaeda and the M.B. The weapons supplied to the rebels were purchased by Americans from Lybia after Gadaffi's downfall. You keep saying I need to do my research, but I have done it and cited sources, which you haven't.

At least we can agree that nobody should care about McCain's antics. I'm off work in a few mins, so peace out, have a good weekend!

From the Guardian, maybe respected as one of the most unbiased media networks in the world.

I was drinking Soda when I read that, it came out of my nose I laughed so hard. . (LOL)

Mainstream left-wing antisemites do not, typically, explicitly accuse Jews of engaging in global conspiracies.

They do not, typically, explicitly advance the narrative of the duplicitous money-grubbing Jew.

They do not, as such, advance the ancient antisemitic blood libel.

And they typically do not, per se, warn their readers of the injurious effects of Jewish power on society.

Nor do they deny the Holocaust.

However, as this blog is continually demonstrating, the most egregious antisemitic sin of far left broadsheets such as the Guardian is their legitimization – even praise – for antisemites who do advance such racist calumnies about the Jewish people.

http://cifwatch.com/2012/07/24/guardians-jewish-problem-paper-praises-extreme-antisemitic-site-counterpunch-as-progressive/

KPR, it was sarcasm since he said that all U.S. media networks lie.

Hahaha, nice that gave me a laugh. I was looking at the pic thinking "and his friend is just pointing and laughing while he burns?"

I'd feel for the guy on fire except that it's implied that he set himself on fire while burning a flag. That makes it funny!

It was as fair as any other election on the planet, US included.

Actually, eagle4315 your hope is the same hope of many of the middle aged to older people here. From the age of about 45 to about the ages of 65 (ish) the people would be happy if the S.C.A.F. intervened, got the country settled and secured then opened it up for election. They would also be happy if the S.C.A.F. oversaw the writing of an updated and newer constitution that was more like the original one before this clumsy and poorly written one.

The younger people want everything right now....yesterday if possible. And their passions lead them to the streets. Therefore, they want revolutionary change. They are tired of being pushed around, angry that the economy is so bad, and tired AND angry that the government is (and older people for that matter are) trying to force them into more separated religious stances. The younger people interacted, played, studied, and worked together. For them it did not matter if a person was Christian or Muslim, they were friends. This is something the MB does not like. These kids (as I call them for my daughter is 30 year old) are dependent on technology. One of the things that makes them angrier than all get out is when things get difficult the government shuts down the internet.

The Middle aged people want an evolutionary change. They are passionate and want change now, but they are willing to be a bit more patient than the youth are. The are the ones who abhor violence and want to push things through channels. They want to create a constitution the is a compilation of the French, American, and South African Constitutions. They like technology and see it's value, but also know what it is like to be without it. SO, for them, it is a blessing. The are irritated when the government shuts it down, but get their news through to people.

The older people simply want stability. They want to know that their pensions are in good stead, they want their children and grandchildren to have a good and safe lives, and they want to see democracy come in an ordered and civil manner. Finally, they HATE and are suspicious of any and all technology.

This revolution is not simply about Democracy versus the Muslim Brotherhood. It has so many different levels. There are the differences in the ages, differences in religious beliefs and how to best coexists, and major differences with the technology. All this is wrapped up in economic hardship, cultural passions, and extreme hope for a better future. It is amazing to watch it unfold.

In kind regards,

@ drjill, hello again, allow me to have a friendly rebuttal to some of your upbeat comments on the Egyptian situation. I believe that the future of the Egyptian democracy depends on two critical questions

1) Since Sadat released the MB gang from prisons in 1971 they have worked on their plan to infiltrate every branch of the Government, including the military and the police. In terms of numbers and rank, how successful were they in this effort?

2) Even if the MB were successful in infiltrating these vital groups, how many of their members, especially the younger and supposedly college educated generation, will be turned off by their power grab and turned against them?

Because of the secrecy of the MB organization, I don't know if anyone can reliably answer these questions, and I believe that the future of Egypt will be determined by the success of the non MB, non Salafist groups in defeating the Islamist, and this will depend on the position taken by the military and the police.

Good morning Coptic Christian. I love your posts and definitely do not consider them rebuttles. I think we compliment each other for you are what we call an "insider" to the Coptic religion and I am considered the outside observer. I believe we compliment each other to provide different perspectives. You ask wonderful questions!! I wish I could give you definitive answers to your questions to make things better for you. I think you and I bring a bit of reason to the discussion where many of the people who post here do not get the entire story. So they lead with irrational emotional rants and putdowns. It is definitely difficult to understand the length of the MB because of their secrecy. Also, I get concerned with the level of infiltration ~~ especially with their tactics of feeding the poor and making the poor dependent on the MB. As you know the Salafists are simply insane/mentally ill in their zealousness. Their numbers are dropping (or being quieted) by some of the militias.

We are seeing a rather large number of younger MB members joining groups such as Rotary International and organizations like that. We are not sure if they are using the groups/organizations to further their causes, or if the policies and philosophies of the groups are rubbing off on the members.

The thing that irritates me about the news media is that they ONLY focus on the negative and bad things that are happening here. For every bad thing there are many, many more good things happening. We see them each and every moment of the day. For example, a woman was being sexually harassed by some men. Several demonstrators stepped in and stopped the men from approaching her and harassing even further. The cell phone video is grainy and pretty bad so you cannot see too much, and (or course) it is in Arabic, but these incidents are not being published. Also, the demonstrators are communicating with the businesses and vendors so they know what is going on.

I am not sure if you know General Wadid Butros or not. He is in the military (Air Force) and he says they will not fire on the people and that they are watching the members of the MB within the military structure. I have utter and total faith in his words. He also said that the MB and Salafists were outnumbered.

I think the only thing that can reliably answer your questions would be time. With time and the next election cycle we will all know more. Further, you know being Copt that Egypt is the Holy land for the Copts. The early Egyptian people kept the Holy family safe from Herod, the Copts lived through the horrors of Diocletian's terror, and we will make it through this time of uncertainty as well. Time is on our side. Some of my Coptic and liberal friends say that Time AND God/Allah is on their side. But as a scholar I try to do my best to leave God/Allah out of the discussion. I have to deal in facts and observations and try to leave my spiritual faith out of the equation.

And, I am not sure if you have been on my fb page or not, but we are in school, the internet is still up, and the students are wonderful. I have faith in them as well. They will grow older (My students are 15 years and older) and will not allow the country to be under Sharia or any other moral law.

I hope this helps assure you a little bit.

A little bit of information to your first question...Even though Sadat allowed them out of prisons in 1971, Mubarak and Tantawi rounded them up in December 1998 after the Queen Hatsepsut Massacre and placed them back into prisons. How many they got, no one really knows. Many of them also fled to Saudi or Afghanistan. This was when Ayman a-Zawahiri and his followers were told to get out of Egypt or they would be killed. His death sentence is still in place and I have heard some of the people (my age and older) say to the MB members that they need to go join him.

So, basically, we are not sure how many members of that 1971 release are left but I wanted you to know what I know here.

In kind regards from Heliopolis and Caifornia!!

Thank you drjill, I always find your comments very informative and at least they give me some hope for the future of Egypt. I was going to include in my previous comment the famous cliché "is the glass half full or half empty". It's great that you and many other non-Egyptians are staying put in Egypt, while some Egyptians have given up on the country and they are coming by droves to the States and the West. Your presence should help in informing the World about what is going in Egypt, and to some extent may help in moderating the positions of this brutal regime.
Now allow me to address some of the issues you mentioned.
I totally agree with you on this point

It is definitely difficult to understand the length of the MB because of their secrecy. Also, I get concerned with the level of infiltration ~~ especially with their tactics of feeding the poor and making the poor dependent on the MB. As you know the Salafists are simply insane/mentally ill in their zealousness. Their numbers are dropping (or being quieted) by some of the militias.

I would just add that there are at least two kind of salafists, those who really believe what they are advocating, and the opportunist who are making their living by deceiving the poor and ignorant. I watch many YouTube videos from Salafist's TV and my response can be summed by the Egyptian proverb "some misery makes you cry and some misery makes you laugh!"

We are seeing a rather large number of younger MB members joining groups such as Rotary International and organizations like that. We are not sure if they are using the groups/organizations to further their causes, or if the policies and philosophies of the groups are rubbing off on the members.

It's hard to figure out their intention, I hope they are not using the democratic process to change these organizations, as they did with many unions, and almost succeeded in changing El Wafd party. Also a recent example which is quite confusing is what they did with the "6th April" movement. I commented on this movement in Arabic blogs and I raised the question, if this movement was created by the MB or infiltrated by the MB, and if it was infiltrated when did this happen. Any way if the Rotary started discussing the positive role of MB in building modern Egypt, you will know that it's time to leave this esteemed organization.

The thing that irritates me about the news media is that they ONLY focus on the negative and bad things that are happening here.

I agree with you that news media usually focus on negative news, but I am following some independent Egyptian TV commentator and they are also raising red flags about what is going on in Egypt. I appreciate their role and wish them luck, because I am not sure how long they will be able to do that.

I am not sure if you know General Wadid Butros or not. He is in the military (Air Force) and he says they will not fire on the people and that they are watching the members of the MB within the military structure. I have utter and total faith in his words. He also said that the MB and Salafists were outnumbered.

Well from his name, this General is obviously Christian I hope there are enough moderates in the military ranks that they can stop the MB takeover. But I am afraid that the battle between the MB and the military in Egypt will mirror what happened in Turkey, where the MB while pretending to be moderate have succeeded in removing most of the secular leadership of the military.

The early Egyptian people kept the Holy family safe from Herod, the Copts lived through the horrors of Diocletian's terror, and we will make it through this time of uncertainty as well. Time is on our side. Some of my Coptic and liberal friends say that Time AND God/Allah is on their side. But as a scholar I try to do my best to leave God/Allah out of the discussion. I have to deal in facts and observations and try to leave my spiritual faith out of the equation.

Well said, I totally agree with your analysis and let me add God works in mysterious ways.

Even though Sadat allowed them out of prisons in 1971, Mubarak and Tantawi rounded them up in December 1998 after the Queen Hatsepsut Massacre and placed them back into prisons. How many they got, no one really knows. Many of them also fled to Saudi or Afghanistan.

I posted some comment about this in Arabic, here is my speculation; Sadat released the Islamists to fight the leftists, he succeeded but after his peace treaty with Israel, he was in a battle with them, he tried to arrest them, and he even balanced his act by including some Christians in his enemy list, and that was his final act in 1981, before he was assassinated. Mubarak all the tried to appease the Islamists, there were strong rumors –I heard a Sadat relative saying it on TV- that Mubarak was in agreement with the Islamists on the assassination plot. He was sitting next to Sadat and he was not shot, while Bishop Samuel of the Coptic Church was sitting very far away and he was assassinated. Any way I believe that Mubarak's agreement with the Jihadist is that he will give them free hand to attack the Copts and they will let him rule. The attack in Luxor was an aggressive act by the Jihadist and at that point Mubarak started to fight them. Mubarak continued his game with the MB, they were banned but they still manage to win seats in the Parliament, and their social services went unchecked. My final theory, is that probably the MB agreed to let Mubarak rule on condition that they will take over after his death, and the attempt to have his son Gamal inherit the throne was the last straw that ignited the current events. As for Tantawi, he is a hard core Islamist, and so far it is not clear what kind of secret deals he made with the MB is what is called "the safe exit" I will give you "MB" the throne and you will not prosecute me for what I did as the military commander under Mubarak, actually they even gave him the highest Egyptian Medal.
Any way this last paragraph is my own speculation, so you don't need to respond to it.

@ Coptic Christian. My only response would be to say that you are wonderful and have great ideas and questions. I hope people who read these blogs listen to both you and me so they can learn. Egypt is such a beautiful and diverse country with wonderful people like you to match. You, and they, deserve our support and help. If I can step aside from being a scholar for a moment and make a personal comment......I keep all of you (and us too) in my thoughts, meditations, and prayers.

In kind regards and deep respect.