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Saeed Khan / AFP - Getty Images, file
A member of the Taliban stands near the remnants of a Buddha statue in Bamiyan, Afghanistan, in March 2001. The militia blew up two ancient Buddhas after a decree from their supreme commander to destroy all of the country's statues.
LONDON -- They have destroyed the iconic Buddhas of Bamiyan, smashed down the fabled “end of the world” gate in the ancient city of Timbuktu and even called for the destruction of Egypt’s ancient pyramids and the Sphinx.
Extreme Islamist movements across the world have developed a reputation for the destruction of historic artifacts, monuments and buildings.
This week, officials confirmed that up to 2,000 manuscripts at Mali's Ahmed Baba Institute had been destroyed or looted during a 10-month occupation of Timbuktu by Islamist fighters. Some experts have compared the texts to the Dead Sea Scrolls.
To many in the West, such actions are simply wanton vandalism. However, experts say the thinking behind it is actually part of a wider tradition of rooting out idol-worship and superstition found in Christianity and Judaism as well as Islam.
French and Malian troops have retaken control of Timbuktu from Islamist rebels. In the ancient city, much damage has been done, thousands of priceless manuscripts have been destroyed. Tim Ewart reports.
Usama Hasan -- an Islamist for about 20 years, who now works to counter extremism at the U.K.’s Quilliam Foundation -- said most Muslims had “a kind of tolerant attitude" and a "live-and-let-live" approach toward such things.
"Mainstream Muslim thinking tends to tolerate these historic artifacts," he said. "Even if they don’t agree with the superstitions, they don’t want to provoke the community and don’t see it as a big deal."
But Hasan said he understood the mindset of those condemned as cultural vandals “very well” as he “used to subscribe to it.”
He said that during his Islamist days he would say things like: “Yes, let’s destroy the pyramids when we take over Egypt.”
"It’s very sad. You lose all that cultural heritage, music, history, art, ancient books. If they (Islamists) don’t agree with what’s in them … they seem to think it’s OK to burn these books," he said. "If you’re not Muslim or don’t subscribe to the same narrow interpretation the militants do, they will oppose everything you do and do so violently if they need to."
Hasan said there were a number of stories explaining how the Sphinx lost its nose, but one account suggests that a religious figure in the 14th century, Saim El-Dahr, tried to get rid of it.
“There was a common belief that the Sphinx had some power over the level of the River Nile … he wanted to smash the locals’ superstitious belief in the power of the Sphinx and tried to destroy it,” he said.
Nov. 8: Until the fundamentalist Taliban government and its al-Qaida allies destroyed them in 2001, two immensely important Buddha statues were nestled in the Bamyan valley of Afghanistan. As NBC's Richard Engel reports, the region is slowly coming back to life as the restoration of the figures begins.
Similar reasoning was likely behind some actions of Islamists in Mali. Breaking down the gate in Timbuktu was probably designed to show any local people who still believed in the fable that it was not actually true, Hasan said.
But while the Taliban justified the 2001 demolition of the Buddhas of Bamiyan by saying they were idols, Hasan said there was more to it.
“The Taliban’s destruction of the statues was a political gesture. The United Nations had sent money to restore these statues at the same time there were sanctions [against Afghanistan],” he said. “The Taliban said children were dying because of this … and the U.N. was more concerned about statues than people.”
Noah Charney, professor of art history at the American University of Rome, said that the destruction of idols dated back to biblical times, when warring factions would destroy monuments of rivals that were thought to have religious power.
NBC's Richard Engel travels to the legendary city of Timbuktu, which is cradled within one of West Africa's poorest nations.
The Ten Commandments include a proscription against making “any graven image” of anything in heaven or on Earth, but Charney said this had been “quickly forgotten” or interpreted to mean only images of “false idols” by many Christians.
The reason many Ancient Greek and Roman statues of gods are missing their heads and arms is not faulty construction, Charney said. Instead, it is often the legacy of the 6th-century Pope Gregory the Great.
“He found the classical statuary to be very beautiful, but there was a danger people would revert back to their pagan ways” and start worshiping them, Charney said. By removing the head and arms, which often held items identifying the deity, the statue “lost all its power because you don’t know which god it is.”
In seventh century Byzantium, clashes between Christians over the alleged worship of icons gave rise to the term “iconoclasm,” meaning the destruction of religious images.
The Reformation in the 16th century also saw many statues in churches literally defaced by Protestants in Europe.
Benoit Tessier / Reuters
A museum guard displays a burned ancient manuscript at the Ahmed Baba Institute in Timbuktu, Mali, on Thursday.
The city of Timbuktu has borne the brunt of recent Islamist iconoclasts, with rebel forces in Mali setting fire to its historic library as they retreated in the face of French and Malian government troops this month.
After the militants took the city last year, they destroyed mausoleums and a gate that local superstition said would only open at the end of the world.
In November, an ultraconservative religious figure in Egypt, Murgan Salem al-Gohary, told local television that the Sphinx and pyramids at Giza should be leveled, an idea that sparked headlines but is shared by only a tiny minority of Egyptians.
“All Muslims are charged with applying the teachings of Islam to remove such idols, as we did in Afghanistan when we destroyed the Buddha statues,” he said.
While he celebrated the destruction of the two 6th-century statues -- one 180 feet, the other 125 feet high -- in Afghanistan’s Bamiyan Valley in March 2001, world cultural body UNESCO described it as a “tragic” act that “shook the world.”
Beyond the ugliness of the fighting between the U.S. and the Taliban sits Bamiyan Province, a national treasure in a nation divided by war. NBC's chief foreign correspondent Richard Engel tours the region and speaks with its people about their hopes and dreams.
The wrecking ball has also been swung to significant effect in the holy cities of Mecca and Medina in Saudi Arabia.
According to an estimate in 2005 by Sami Angawi, an expert on Islamic architecture, at least 300 historic buildings were demolished over the previous 50 years.
The reason, espoused by the Wahhabi movement within Islam, was that people might start idolatrously worshipping structures associated with Muhammad, rather than God.
David Thomas, professor of Christianity and Islam at the U.K.’s Birmingham University, said iconoclasm was “a strain in all religions unfortunately,” but added that was “present at the moment in Islam more than anywhere else.”
President Francois Hollande went on a sort of victory tour through Timbuktu, in Mali, recently held by extremists connected with al-Qaida. NBC's Rohit Kachroo reports from Mali.
In contrast, he said that there were “teachings in the Quran that are actually very open and tolerant. There are teachings that accept other ways than the way given to Muhammad.”
And Thomas said some Islamists were in danger of committing the very sin they despise.
“The Taliban have an attitude that almost shades into idolatry itself. They are saying they know what the truth is, that they have a monopoly on the truth and that they can therefore almost take the place of God in judging who is right and who is wrong.”
Related:
Timbuktu: A journey to Africa's lost city of gold
Leave a Comment:
Vandalism? No, these ultra-islamists (Wahhabis,Salafists) are toeing the line of the Imamas telling them to destroy 'heretics' mausoleums.graveyards, shrines,libraries,historical World Heritage sites. They want to impose their worldviews on other muslims (especially the Sufis). Afghanistan had their Buddha statues-various interpretations of Koran- then Saudi muhadejin,madrassas teaching their warped vision to destroy their own culture with oil monies doing their bidding. Mali had the shrines,mausoleums,ancient papyri et al until Ansar Dine and Al Qaeda affiliates emerged on the scene. Same is happening in Pakistan and Indian Kashmir- torching,using bulldozers,shovels,grenades they destroy everything. Saudi aid orgs in Balkans tried also very hard to destroy local muslim heritage. Look what they did in their own country- they destroyed all the graves,shrines of Hadji - those who died after arriving in Jedda- only earth images now reveal the detroyed sites of graveyards. Libya- when NATO toppled Qaddafi- the AQIM and Belhadj LIFG tried to sic NATO to destroy Lepis Manta.
I wonder how the Islamist would feel if Mt ABU KUBIAS in Mekkah was destroyed?
Based on the logic in the article Mt ABU KUBIAS and KAABA should be destroyed
"people might start idolatrously worshipping structures associated with Muhammad, rather than God"
they destroy things because they dont give a crap about anything other than themselves.
I think it's BS to not talk or negotiate with Muslim extremists. I truly belive the West can do itself a huge favor by not being so extreme in its dealing with the Taliban, Salafists and Wahabists.
Let's give it a try and talk to these folks, the West has nothing to lose!
The Taliban will destroy anything they think will be a threat to their way of thinking.Many Governments in the past have done the same exact thing in order to gain or maintain control.It actually makes a little sense when you figure you have to get rid of your enemies.Destroying your enemies and their cultural beliefs is not new at all
Olias...
Nothing to lose but our collective heads! You can't reason with a rabid dog. The Islamists only have one way...theirs or death. You must be a decendent of Neville Chamberlain and we all know how "successful" his way was.
Well, here's a novel idea: maybe if our government would STOP FUNDING and BACKING these violent Islamist Jihadist thugs, and keep our noses out of other countries business, it would go a long way in dealing with the problem and enhancing our security. Scary thought, huh?
Perspective is refreshing, isn't it?
They destroy things for no other reason than they are savages!!!! Savages have neither an understanding, respect or appreciation for anything. To try and spin their behavior to try and justify it is just as sickening as their savage ways!!!
I can understand (but don't agree with) some people's interpretation of what constitutes 'Idolatry', which is a prohibition against any 'graven image' that might be a representation of God, but why do Muslims have such a prohibition against any image of Mohammad?
Do do so implies that Mohammad is equal to God - which would be blasphemy.
It is still vandalism!
Freakin' rag heads are evolutionary throw backs who only understand destruction. Time for another Crusade, wipe them out!
"Baconator" is a form of idolatry. Watch out Wendy's!
Explaining WHY some one is a "religious NUT BAG" does not make them LESS of a "religious NUT BAG".
ALL religions, when taken "seriously"do nothing but promote destruction and hatred. Religions are fairy tales designed to dominate and control a population. Keep them dumb and scared and they will do your bidding, give you their money and keep you in power. That's why they call it "blind faith".....just close your eyes and let them think FOR you. Pure evil....and stupidity on the part of the "followers".
What a @!$%#ing moron standing next to the destroyed statue of Buddhas that stood for thousands of years. It just pains my heart to see these @!$%#ing idiots not understanding their own legacy. Afghanistan was a major major center of buddhism and hindu culture.
But don't tell yourself - they are the only ones who do it. Case in point - in India - where I come from English did exactly the same thing to everything that was pre-English. The difference is that the British were much smarter and were primarily focused on making a political point whereas Taliban - as the article points out very very well - are nothing but a bunch of idiots who think they know the truth and everything else must be destroyed.
How is the Taliban's ignorance that much different from the right-wing groups that want to shove their religion down everyone's throats in America whether they like it or not by dumping their religious horses8!t all over publicly owned lands AS WELL AS on the private church properties where they belong? According to the Constitution, that is.
The ignorance these people have shown througout history is disgustingly atrocious. What can you expect from a people so illiterate and without any form of education except for a few capable of reading a make believe book, the Quran. A country of nothing but idiots!
Since they are so bent on destorying things, maybe we could help them out and level Mecca and the Dome of the rock. Might make us feel a little better. Don't know till we do it though. Just sayin'.
the Muslim extremist are growing in numbers every day; the western world and the Muslim religion can not co-exist together, after 1400 years of fighting them, you would think we had learned by now; however we continue to reach out to them, they take that as a sign of weakness; when it starts happening in America, maybe then we will wake up to the threat.
At least the guy in the picture has his bottom right two teeth. That's something.
How is the Taliban's ignorance that much different from the right-wing groups that want to shove their religion down everyone's throats in America whether they like it or not by dumping their religious horses8!t all over publicly owned lands AS WELL AS on the private church properties where they belong? According to the Constitution, that is
How's it different? No one is making you go to church. I can think of many things the secularist are trying to shove down the Americans throat who want not part of it. and that's ok? If you are a muslim and you convert to christianity they will kill you.
The only problem with that ridiculous statement is that Judaism and Christianity ended those absurd practices many many hundreds of years ago. Muslims live in the "dark ages" still. Islam is literally cancer on this planet. Any so called religion that can get their "sheepish followers" to get on their knees five times a day, seven days a week is way way more than a religion, it is total indoctrination and total subservience to religious doctrines made up by men. A culture of degradation and worthlessness to half it's population, females. The so called religion of peace is in fact the most violent and moronic culture we have on this planet. and it plays itself out daily to a billion people under it's influence. No to Islamic immigration to the United States, we aren't going the way of Europe which has allowed the "cancer" in in way to large of numbers, and they are regretting it ever minute of every day, and will regret it FOREVER, for it is starting to slowly destroy everything that it touches. Paris is on the verge of a disaster, it's already happening, there are places outside the city the police won't even go into. sad, so very sad.
Saxon, BINGO!!! your post is right on the money!
Glenn, way to shut up stupidity. Comparing ANY religion to the cancer of Islam is absurd. In America we have freedom from tyranny, within Islam your freedom from absolute tyranny, including your own death, is far far from secure. GBaby's analogy is beyond pathetic. And GBaby, I'm agnostic, so I have no dog in this hunt. To me religion is nothing more than trying to answer questions that have no answer, but for you to compare any religion to the cancer known as "the Muslim religion" to ANY other major religion shows your ignorance.
Hey there Obama...How is that Arab spring thingy working for ya??!!! Benghazi does matter and WE do care!!
Crappy reporting !! " islamist fighters" ? "extreme islamists" ? " militants" ? Your journalists are trying so hard not to call them what they are : terrorists ! Backwards, uneducated, bloodthirsty, uncouth, uncivilized terrorists. They destroy each other's mosques if it's a different branch of islam, do you think they're gonna respect your beliefs ? If the civilized world doesn't start controlling this vermin, our future generations are doomed.
that says it all. we are dealing with monsters, not human beings.
Santa Claus and Easter Bunny Akbaaaaaarrrrr!
One of the main problems we have today in understanding Aztec and Inca culture is that Spanish Catholic priests made a determined, centuries-long effort to utterly destroy everything associated with them. Bonfires of Aztec codices went up in flames. Only a few are left.
In our own time, and where I live, Mormons haven't been caught actually destroying history, but they do lock it up in their own vaults and refuse to allow anyone to look at it. They're afraid of it.
What goes around comes around. Or, as Pogo put it, "We have met the enemy and he is us."
Oh, the irony of a religion calling other religions "superstitious."
"Comparing ANY religion to the cancer of Islam is absurd"
uhh, no one expects...the spanish inquisition! Remind me, which religion has priests that are child abusers?
Dude, listen to yourself. You want to eradicate everyone within a religion because of the actions of a small percentage of extremists. These are Wahhabis, not mainstream muslims. It only takes a few hypocrites to ruin everybody's day. You're NO different from the wahhabis. I think these people need to be stopped, but there's a distinction between extremists and mainstream.
Just because Christianity has a bloodthirsty history doesn't mean it should be destroyed entirely.
Meanwhile, extremist Christians are calling for genocide on the internet.
“The Taliban said children were dying because of this … and the U.N. was more concerned about statues than people.”
But it is OK for the Taliban to go around and murder children because they did something that they don't believe in?
Why do Islamic extremists destroy cultural artifacts......... Because they are intolerant simple minded idiots who fear everything and anything that might spread enlightenment.
Pig blood, short and simple. No rest for the wicked. Anytime anyone is so ignorant to believe that killing others is "acceptable" because some jerk says so will never understand ANY SOCIETY. Ashes to ashes dust to dust, these people are as close to dust as possible. PIG BLOOD, AND BE VERY SELECTIVE AS TO IT'S USE!
Glenn-2827821, extreme right wing Evangelicals are comparative to the Taliban. They have assassinated doctors over Pro-choice, blown up federal buildings, the Waco event and of course trying to sway politics in this country with Teabaggers in both houses such as Akin, Bachman, Jenkins among others on this link:http://www.boogai.net/headlines/112th-congress-house-tea-party-caucus-members/. Everyone of these extreme right wing politicans reflect the extreme Right Wing Evangelicals including the last GOP presidentional candidate Rick Santorium.
We cannot forget the hogwash during the Bush II regime that was going on in DC with the appointment of these same Evangelicals who rejected science and anyone who were not of their belief system as taught at the Bob Jones College of brainwashing. So these people, the extreme Right Wing Evangelicals, cannot be discounted either. They have done their best to rewrite science to suit their beliefs, brought in Creationism to our schools causing the education of our posterity, the future leaders of this country, to have a dumbed down education to reflect their mentality level. The only difference between the Taliban and these Evangelicals I have elaborated on is geography.
How freaking hilarious most of you folks are.
We CHRISTIANS are known for the very same wanton destruction of other religions and thier symbols too.
Go back and re-read the article. It touches on the very tip of the iceberg of how our CHRISTIANTITY has been as horrific in it's actions.
I'm not giving them an excuse for thier behaviors in any way - I'm just pointing out the high hypocracy of the 'superiority' that many of you claim while you damn them for the same behavior OUR religion has not only engaged in, but has actively promoted.
Ignorance inbred is Islam. The imam who shouts loudest wins their heart! Isn't religion wonderful?
Yes, we do have that freedom. But, not because religion became enlightened, but because secular power increased. It wasn't that long ago (within my 50-year lifetime) in the US that storekeepers could be fined or imprisoned for transacting business on Sunday. Actually, that still is illegal in one country in NJ.
ALL religions view the world self-referentially and revile all things intellectual.
Tax all religions to the fullest extent of the code.
I wonder when religion - any religion - became more important than life. The radical Muslim rush to death mystifies me. The quicker you leave life behind and enter whatever 'heaven' you imagine, the better? I know one thing for sure - life is a reality. Heaven? I wouldn't know. Does anyone else?
These murderous a$$holes are no different then a band of street thugs! You can find them roaming any major city in ANY country, killing innocent people, destroying property and spreading fear and intimidation.. They USE religion as an EXCUSE for doing what they want to do, which is to commit criminal acts! There is NOTHING about them that is good, they are utter evil and they have been with us since the days we crawled down from the trees.. They may call themselves Muslims, Islamist or Taliban EXTREMISTS, it makes no difference.. The names change over the centuries or may stay the same, but what they do NEVER changes!
These guys have used religion or gang affiliation as a means to an end, which is to sow chaos and hatred.. They are exactly the same type that were in the Crusades, another murderous movement designed, not to change anyone's mindset, but simply to loot, kill and destroy! Groups like these can be as big as an entire country's population or as small as the Manson Clan, but they are all the same.. They are made up of people who are born to hurt, ravage, kill, torture, destroy and, through doing this kind of crap, get their few minutes of fame!
These extremists KNOW they will only make people hate them more by destroying landmarks, art and historic artifacts that they run across, they DON'T care.. They LOVE it, they love it BECAUSE it keeps them in the limelight and it does what they want most, to cause people to fear them!
Each and everyone caught destroying property, no matter who or what they are, should be shot, just like a looter is shot on sight during a disaster! They deserve nothing less..
Seems to me that if extremist Muslims are true to their word, they should want the Kaaba in Mecca destroyed. To go half way round the world to walk around the Kaaba seems like they are worshiping it, and not god.
Why extreme Islamists are intent on destroying cultural artifacts?
The answer is simple: Because religious people are not very bright.
The habit of destroying beautiful works of art no matter where they are in the world by extremist Muslims is a display of mental illness and nothing more.
"talk to the Taliban" ?? rofl... only with superior firepower.
Stratocumulus , You Say,
Meanwhile, extremist Christians are calling for genocide on the internet.
Where do you get this from ? I'm on pin's and needles.... I've never heard this propaganda.
The only genoside in the US is the 1.2 mil Baby's murdered every year...And like Mass murder is very rare,So are the crazy s that kill in the name of God Abortion DR.'s are rare,and Christians do not support their acts and have publicly said so,When Muslim extremists do the unspeakable you can hear a pin drop from ANY of them rejecting their behavior,which is the same as supporting it,I would imagine they are afraid of being killed,raped,have acid thrown in their face,any number of barbaric numbers they do to their own,much less the rest of the world.
Anybody referring Muslims and Christians are the same or just as bad,Are just looking for a fight,and Yet another place to place blame,just as they use the racism card anytime someone disagrees with them,I have seen with my own eyes here on this vine,the far left/Commies call for public executions of republicans...so I'd like to see where a true Christian group is supposedly "calling for genocide in the Internet "
Also those that say Christians are shoving God down you throat,I'd refer you to the Gay movement, from schools to our politics as well as The Very REAL Genocide of Babies in this country,Im sure 1.2 mil Rapes or incest have not resulted in pregnancies,A " reason used by the same people claiming Christians are making them do what ? It's the left/progressive (code for communism)machine of religion that does the shoving and demanding...they sound more like the intolerant Muslims extremists than Christians do.
Umm, Vatican has been doing this same thing for decades. The first thing Christian did in Rome was to destroy all artifacts belong to Pagans.
Nothing news here, just intolerant of others. Even in the US, around 50 years ago, you could be fine if your store open on Sunday.
Since the Islamists believe in only their way or the way to hell, I suggest to send all these sand-diggers to hell via some sophisticated fine American weapons.
Just looking at the pictures of these rouge and filthy Muslim jerks destroying world treasures makes you puke. If these primitive ideas of destruction are still ingrained in them, well, annihilate them and restore peace before these morons destroy world heritage and other unique treasures to mankind, which they are no part of.
Adopt a tit-for-tat policy. Openly announce that for every historic monument the Taliban (or any extremist Muslim group) destroys, we bomb a mosque. Which mosque we choose can be proportional to what monument they destroy. You mess with the pyramids or the Sphinx, the Dome of the Rock gets obliterated.
I say this only half-serious, of course, because in the interest of diplomacy, we can't do that. But I can virtually guarantee that the foolishness would stop pretty quickly.
kool with me ...i just would nt mind seeing a US prison in that region for US terrorist/gangbangers
these terrorist... anybody burns their book...that it's just the worse thing anybody could do...they turn into cry baby's...they deserve to be with to be with Allah...sooner rather than later...no prison for them just a good ole U.S. made bullet...
Sad to think that these extremists want to take away the surviving history of the world. These artifacts are not Idols at all, they are an account of history where we as a people came from. This is nothing more than someones personal twisted interpretation of a written text. The christian 10 commandments teaches of no idol worship. So for the Islam extremists to theink they can wipe out christianity through these methods is absurd.
Just like the Democrats and Athiests in the US think they can adversly affect the christians by removing God from schools and court rooms. peopje who wish to believe in a religion or not to affects me none. I have my beliefs and no one is going to change that.
So come to my house if you so wish. But be warned you might find something that may offend you. Do not expect me to remove anything for your sake. But you have the right to leave anytime you so desire. I will not change my beliefs for anyone.
Um . . . Why destroy? Same as our white euro ancestors did when they took native children, cut their hair, stripped them of clothing and all other artifacts of their native lives and forced them to assume white euro ways. That was destruction same as it goes on today.
If you're going to flay other cultures for their stupidity, AT LEAST admit that our own culture is full of its fair share of stupidity too.
(Olias of Sunhillow - agree with what you wrote way far up the post order. Tried to quote it but couldn't'. If peace doesn't work we can always revert to the standard military solution . . . That certainly is a long term solution isn't it? )
July 7, 2010
As noble as Mr. Bolden tried to make this effort sound, many of us knew this was just wishful thinking.
If Muslim nations were truly proud of their "historic contributions", then we wouldn't have to be promoting it for them. It's time we step into reality and admit the Muslim nations are complicit in the terrorism built on their irrational interpretation of their religion. This ignorance permeates their culture.
I am tired of the stupid excuse that, "not all Muslims are terrorists". Maybe not, but the Muslim world is complicit in their allowing the criminal elements to be so pervasive. Granted a good part of their complacency is due to the illiteracy that permeates their societies, it's still not an excuse for allowing and pandering to this destructive behavior. There are over 1.5 BILLION Muslims in the world, even if there are a million terrorists, the overwhelming odds are with the "good" Muslims 1500 to 1.
The worst problem is, these terrorist miscreants are destroying much of what promotes their own culture and identity. Regardless of iconic, spiritual or symbolic value, historic artifacts must be preserved. When millennial culture and heritage are allowed to be destroyed for ideological reasons, no one benefits.
Islamic extremism must be stopped but the emphasis must be on the Muslim world to do it, if not then the entire Muslim nation can only be at fault and should expect the consequences.
"Why extreme Islamists are intent on destroying cultural artifacts?"
Three simple words: Intolerance, ignorance, fear.
Now ask me a difficult question.
"Why extreme Islamists are intent on destroying cultural artifacts?"
Naw, it's because they have no more brains than a donkey's ass!
When people talk about the things other religions have done, you know, they have to go back hundreds or even thousands of years. When it comes to the damage Islam has done, we only have to go back to yesterday.
They will get theirs - I say lets destroy the Dome of the Rock it is no more important than the Walmart down the street. In fact Walmart is far more important.
Mohammad is no GOD he is a man, only a man. HE admits this but Muslims can't accept this??
ho-hum...all things must pass.
If I have to turn to dust - then everything else has to too.
If this world had a grand designer - they really missed the Fung Shway part of class.
I just love how half the people on this site mechanically start pointing their fingers at christianity. "yea those muslims are savages....but....but...LOOK AT THE CHRISTIANS ARENT THEY DUMB HAHA!!!" Good Lord I am sick of extremist atheists. They whine about how in your face and hypocritical Christians are then proceed to point their little fingers and laugh about how o so enlightened they are, that everyone who believes in something higher then humanity is an idiot.
May i remind that Christianity grew up and stopped killing hundreds of years ago? These dogs will never know anything but intimidation, rape, and murder. You can call me hypocritical all you want but hey, Jesus was perfect, I'm not.
Muslims don't see Mohammad as God, in fact they think it's blasphemy to worship him as such. Mohammad is just the Prophet worthy of utmost respect.
Just sad that the region in the world now dominated by their faith is also the world's ancient museum. I used to care for the protection of those ancient arts and relics, but now I say let them destroy their own countries and themselves for all we care. Nothing we can do against religious indoctrination and ignorance.
Extremists of any kind typically draw upon a well of bad personal feelings. These feelings may come from a variety of sources, but the most dangerous typically feel they are severely oppressed and are angry with their standing in the world. They will dwell on a cause they think is perceived by many to be right so they feel justified in their hate and can do whatever evil things they want in the name of a cause they, and others, think is righteous. They often find comfort in others like themselves who hate so they band together in gangs or other organized outlets to practice their destructive behavior with a support group. Religion can be used by some as an excuse for destructive behavior. The Koran has passages, like the Bible, that sound pretty harsh by today's standards. They leave a lot of room for interpretation and are sometimes out and out hateful to others. So many angry people of the world zero in on these passages. The worst of them will go to the extreme of killing other people or destroying what other people love. It is very easy to respond in kind and start a sort of downward spiral as we spread hate throughout the world. Lets keep our wrath aimed at only the most dangerous of these extremists and try to help the others out of their dark existence with education, and most of all, love. All of us have bad traits that have surfaced at times in our lives. We typically feel sorry later and appreciate those who are willing to forgive us. When they ask for forgiveness let's be willing to do that with love. When they don't ask for forgiveness let's try to educate them. For the worst of them we have to try to stop their destructive behavior as best we can with methods that may not be so kind. But in the end in order to have a better world we all need to share our love and be willing to forgive. What goes around comes around.
This is more evidence of the ignorance and barbarity that follows “The religion of peace”. They may not realize it but these Islamic animals are hated more everyday by normal human beings.
Why have we not declared all out war on these savages?! We should be as determined as we were in WWII when we fought the Nazis. When the U.S. came into Germany, we deNazified it. Why do we not take the same view with these destructive creeps? We coddle them way too much. We try oh so hard not to offend them...oh, brother. They seem to want to offend everyone else, so why not offend them. OFFEND THEM DAY AND NIGHT 24/7! Let's blow up their main holy site, the one with that big dumb square black thing. Level all their stuff since they won't respect anyone else's. They deserve no respect. Let's quit all this PC nonsense and give them a nice Old Testament response and level them totally.
I will vote for candidates that say zero tolerance to these creeps, someone who will not hold back. I think we could win if we did not hold back. I think in the long run populations would be grateful to us over there if we wiped out Islam and liberated them, especially women. Of course, we would have to really wipe it out, not negotiate with it.
We are only losing because we are not really fighting them. We can start by driving them out of our own lands. I won't say it directly here, but if we follow their model and do to them what they do to who they consider "infidels," and we did it county by county, state by state....
I am getting so tired of political correctness. I keep having to hold back and be careful of expressing my real feelings. If my feeling is shared by most in this country, I think a backlash of epic proportions is coming....
Saxon #1.18, Sir. It's already happening in America with the right-wing tea movement, the Islam's are big on tea with vodka, this mix makes them crazy !!!
Suggested article for a "Investigative Reporter":
"Reasons why Progressives want to rewrite American History."
Thank you
If it is OK for them to burn books, it's ok for everybody else to burn books. So, where are we going to start the Koran bonfire?
Religious fanatics of all religions are human excrement.
Andy Blackwood said,
How about county by county state by state? What if local governments voted for a zero tolerance of this savage bunch. Maybe we can't depend on our federal government to solve anything.
I am thinking our federal government isn't capable of much anymore, especially foreign policy with Benghazi and all. If it weren't for Social Security, I don't think there would be much purpose for a federal government.
Andy, it is not OK for anybody to burn books, and yes that includes us. Why is everyone's immediate reaction to be just as bad as them?
It seemthat many level headed individuls see islam(lower case becaue they are lower than scum) as cult and ot a religion. They destroy artifacts because they do not want people to enlighten themselves, look at other views of religion. That is why they destroy, murder, and rape the human population. But don't, Don't you dare touch any of their artifacts!
Stratocumulus- Where on earth are you coming from? These islamist @!$%# little boys as if it were part of their religion! If your looking and nitpicking on things done by Chritians(not done hundreds/thousands of years erlier), look to what is really happening in the world and all the atrocities done in the name of islam. Unlike other clouds, cirrus, cumo-nimbus, you are not high up but down low and deep up in your own @!$%#.
Olias of Sunhillow Comment collapsed by the community
I think it's BS to not talk or negotiate with Muslim extremists. I truly belive the West can do itself a huge favor by not being so extreme in its dealing with the Taliban, Salafists and Wahabists.
Let's give it a try and talk to these folks, the West has nothing to lose!
Seriously...you would actually talk with these religious fanatics??? I think you should wear your suicide vest when you go...OK?
It is clear that the Muslims do not respect Human history and other religions. They only value their own. The Muslims treat others that are not themselves so badly than they should get treated the way they DESERVE to be treated!
It is no secret that the Muslims have positioned their people in strategic places across America in order to control America. First things comes first. We can not defeat an enemy who controls our every move. We must act with lightening speed one night. Grab every Muslim and put them in a holding area on vast property. Then see how many we have there in order to figure out how many of those "Big military planes" to fill with those Muslims. Then Put Muslims in each plane until there are no more in the holding zone. Fly them to the middle east where we lower the planes and let them walk off to where they belong, in their own countries. If our planes are attacked then go to plan "B" which is to parachute them out to their own countries. With the Muslims out of key US positions like the one at CTC CIA HQ, we will begin to get our country back. Now to ferret out the Russians and the Germans. Here we might need our most faithful ally, England to help. We can only get rid of one enemy at a time and the best place to start is with the Muslims.
Why all the dancing around the truth? The fact is that these guys are brutal thugs, pure and simple. Islam isn't a religion to them, it is a means of control. "You do what I say or you're dead!" Why else is there even a such thing as Sharia Law? It's certainly not to convince the believers. It's to eliminate the opposition. The Christians did the same thing in the Middle Ages. Stalin did it. Hitler did it. Castro did it. The Islamic clerics in Saudi Arabia and Iran still do it. Personally, I don't even see Islam as a religion, valid or otherwise. I realize that some people see it as a valid religion, but when you look at where the religion came from and where the long term established "church" stands on issues, they are thugs.
I certainly believe in religious freedom, but any religion which doesn't believe in religious freedom is no longer a religion. As they say, religion is a personal issue. When you try to impose your religion on me, then it is no longer merely a religion.
This is what ALL right wing religious groups wants. Thank goodness that in the US we are halting the influence of right winged Christian groups. THey are no different.
The artifacts could render their beliefs to be lies. They don't want anyone to know the truth.
Moslem extreemists destroy because they inwardly know that their way is wrong, much like atheists eliminating all traces of religion from this country.
No, it hasn't. On continental Africa where Christianity is starting to take hold in many tribal communities and villages, the newly-converted Christians are 'encouraged' to bring tribal artifacts previously held 'sacred' to the village square and burn them as a testimonial to their devotion to their newfound religion.
One of the people who rides the same bus as I do every morning is a recent immigrant from Ghana studying applied physics here in the States. When he left his home in Ghana he brought several things with him that had been important to his tribe for generations but had recently nearly been destroyed by recently born-again Christians; a ceremonial headdress worn by tribal elders, ceremonial mask, ceremonial staffs and drums/other music instruments used to 'speak' to the spirit world and deceased ancestors. Although he himself is Muslim, he understands the importance of these tribal artifacts as a link to his cultural past and a part of his ancestral identity, and only by bringing these relics with him to the US could he save them from destruction.
And they did this because the Bible says so:
On the other hand this is what you should do to them; their altars you should pull down, and their sacred pillars you should break down, and their sacred poles you shall cut down, and their graven images you should burn with fire. For you are a holy people to Jehovah your God, it is you that Jehovah your God has chosen to become his people, a special property out of all the peoples that are on the surface of the ground. Deuteronomy 7: 5-6
“Speak to the sons of Israel, and you must say to them, ‘You are crossing the Jordan into the land of Canaan. And you must drive away all the inhabitants of the land from before you and destroy all their stone figures, and all their images of molten metal You should destroy, and all their sacred places you should annihilate. And you must take possession of the land and dwell in it, because to you I shall certainly give the land to take possession of it.'" (Numbers 33: 51-53)
No matter where man has gone, what they called their God, what land they were originally from or what land they are going to, different cultures moving into new regions destroy the cultural/religious/tribal icons of the indigenous peoples in an effort to supplant, take over, and subsume the native populations. Any sociologiost would be able to tell you so. The Romans did so with all their subject states; the Mongols did the same with most of Asia; the Chinese did the same when they created their dynastic rule; the British empire did with the people of Ireland and Scotland (anyone rember an obscure little movie called 'Braveheart'? William Wallace was an actual historic figure) and India (Lawrence of Arabia). The European settlers who came to the New World did so with the Native American peoples. The Spanish conquistadores did so with the Mesoamericans of Latin America and South America, the Caribbean islands which they 'explored' (and took over) it's partly why people from the Phillipines have Hispanic names.
It is human nature to supplant others' Gods/beliefs with one's own, to try and get others to see the world the same way you do. It is not relative to or specific to any one culture, race, or religion, and the true mark of human progress will come when every group of people stop insisting that their way is the only 'right' way, and everything else is 'wrong'.
There is no one true way.
ldo, American History needs rewritten because it was not written truthfully the first time. If you would find your nearest Federal Repository and begin pulling papers written by those early Europeans through Vietnam you will find the truth. These truths are nothing like you have read in your high school or college, if you went that far in your education, text books. What you and others read in these text books are nothing more than what the author wants you to know. Often times the early text books on American History were so jaded it always made the US a hero when often times they were just as bad as those they were fighting, decisions being made for money and greed, Lincoln was never against slavery, read the Lincoln Douglas Debate, the real one and you will begin to see it is all a facade.
American History must be written in a manner to which those who are reading it can make their own assertions and systematically work through the events. Insertions of some of the real papers written by Adams, Jefferson, McNamera, Nixon, Kennedy, IBM, Ford, Preston Bush and others must be included so one can come away with some sort of self truth. Not a text that another man/woman has condensed into a book. Come on, not even 50 years of history could be written in one text. I think you are smarter than to believe it could.
Simply another ideology created to advance its creator or promoter's personal interests - with intent to take over the world and impose genocide on all those unwilling to submit to the ideology. A religion that orders its subjects to kill is certainly not, Islam.
BARBARIC SATANIC VERSES
Islam, like most orthodox religions, has been cursed by a "tree planted outside the garden of the Father of ALL.' That tree is ignorance. Satanic Verses assigned to GOD!
Barbaric Ignorance, has served the purpose of murders, who over the ages burned the peace activists, we've come to know as HERETICS. Jesus Christ the Essene, is the most recognized heretic, who was tortured and killed by this ongoing barbarism.
The attack on knowledge, is well documented in the Bible. Some may recall the story of Yahweh The Demiurge, destroying the Tower of Babel. Not only did this diety with a grudge, set back civilization in a material sense, it took matters a huge step further, by confusing our ancient means of communication.
DESTROY KNOWLEDGE, SPREAD BARBARISM! That is the unfortunate reality propagated by fanatics who rule this world.
Gnosis is our only Salvation.
I Dedicate these comments to Sally Ride. Our hero astronaut was recently honored by NASA.
Sally Ride, and her companion Tam O'Shaugnessy co-authored a book call 'The Mystery of Mars'. One can find a mentioning of the Ancient Gnostics, in the closing thoughts written down in their Mars masterpiece.
Ride and O'Shaughnessy considered the possibility that our current civilization, might also Fall like The Tower of Babel.
Will we also become a fallen civilization, the victim of barbaric SATANIC VERSES?
The basic thrust of the article is to establish the moral equivalence between ALL religions regarding the lack of tolerance for other ways.
While that may well be true at a theoretical level, it also becomes necessary for all honest analysts to acknowledge the fact that in this modern world it is only Islam and Muslims who continue to wreak significant destruction on others and other ways out of religious zealotry.
The article makes it sound as if this is just a cyclical effect, as random as the weather, having nothing to do with Islam in particular. That's a comforting notion but it isn't true. The Qur'an and other religious texts of Islam overflow with fear, contempt, and hatred of other paths and people in life. The extremists are not making anything up themselves, they are just literally and faithfully following what is preached in the religious texts of Islam.
But isn't the problem caused by just that "tiny minority" of Muslims we keep hearing about?? (ad nauseum). Here's the quote in this article:
Nevermind that almost 25% of Egyptians in last year's parliamentary elections voted for the extreme Salafist party, al-Nour. The same Salafists who are behind trying to impose puritanical Islam on Muslims and Non-muslims alike. Does 25% sound like a "tiny minority" to anyone? Bridge for Sale!
stratocumulus "Meanwhile, extremist Christians are calling for genocide on the internet."
The air must be pretty thin up there, strato - take a deep breath.
Let's see now;
Christ said to love and forgive those who hate you.
Islam says kill anyone that disagrees with them.
I guess some people have a hard time figuring out the difference.
Why did the Americans and the British bomb and destroy 500 year old monasteries and churches in Europe during WWII?
Adam44
Hi Adam I was wondering when you would get involved in this. :)
On a side note I would say that according to some of the more Christian posters here, Islam is not the only religion to be commit iconoclasm in the modern world, as according to them, the evil, atheist, liberal, communists are also guilty of the practice in the US.
Go figure huh.
All in the name of someones God.....Death, wars, destruction, oppression......It's all enough to make a God proud of what has been created in his/her namesake, wouldn't you all agree?
None of this BS that any one belief is better than another...They all do it or have, each and everyone. So don't even bother to say....Not mine.
Why are all the xtians getting so upset. After all it is the same policy that was promoted by the catholic church in the New World, where the church destroyed all the written works they could find, and what the missionaries have done throughout Africa.
the late Joseph Campbell said
" If the worlds religions could find the commonalities they have with each other there would be far less wars.....Because you do know the have more in common than they don't, they just choose not to see it".
Well, I managed to avoid it for most of the day. Finally gave in. ugh.
That's true, but they're not waging a holy war over it... yet... so until that happens I will focus on the ones who are waging holy war on others, i.e. Islamic radicals.
No the Christians are doing something a little more subtle like, let's take food, medicine and supplies to the grief stricken area and tell them...no teach them the way of our Lord. Yeah... it's always good to have your victims almost totally helpless & dependant before the reprogramming begins it makes it easier....And it's all in the name of our Loving God our saviour, tra la la la....It's gonna be that or" We need to kill you in order to save you".
the more i read about "Islamist' extremists, the more i see the parallel to right wing extremists. Book burning anyone? The good news is that when the hard line meanies on all sides, finally die, the rest of the world will progress. So whats the real explanation to all this? it's simple, some people just suck.
For world peace and economic stability, wipe out Saudi Arabia and Pakistan from the world map.
They are fountainheads of Islamic extremism and are responsible for the wreckages in many places.
The building of the 'Largest Solar Power Facility in the USA', Blythe, CA, would have destroyed 'American Indian Geoglyphs' sacred Indian grounds that were over 2,000+years old. The "Blythe Intaglios" located in the SW 'High desert' are just one site that is endangered by six large solar energy projects and their support roads...
This site was being defended by the Indians and many others. But California and the OBAMA Administration, had to have their 'Green Energy' center piece. This cost the US Tax Payer 2.3+Billion USD, prior to the German Company going Bankrupt, last year...
Environmental activism for 'Green Power' @ its best - Destroying American Indian Heritage sites and KILLING endangered animals & plants...
I say we pass them the bong aka the peace pipe ... the only problem is ... after a toke or two they would want to cut off our heads ... Screw the rat basterd cave men!
I guess only ugly people want to be in the terrorist's side. That way, these losers can feel important and seek attention.
You know, if you destroy history, you get to create your own.
There is no "other age" to compare against to see if things are better or worse.
Maybe that is what the Taliban are all about, if successful, you only know about them. There is no other system or age to yearn for that might have been better.
There is only the now.
DOU44
Why did the Americans and the British bomb and destroy 500 year old monasteries and churches in Europe during WWII?
Actually yes, as they bombed the sh*t out of civilian targets in Germany and elsewhere. There are books written about Allied bombing during WW2. An internet search isn't difficult.
Believe me, thinking we americans are lily-white innocents just won't fly. The human race is a nasty cowardly species, most acting like herds of cows following along. If politicoes didn't have armies behind them willing to kill other people's kids and home folks willing to SEND THEIR KIDS TO KILL, the world would be a lot better off. [Angry, yeah. Sick and tired of politics and sick and tired of cattle-minded citizens following every whim of the so-called leaders everywhere.]
Wasn't that our most recent Iraq War/Invasion Policy?
mimi jacques,
Thanks for you Educated Post and previous Educated Posts. Sad to say most will not understand nor will they even read your post(s).
However, after dealing with Islam for so long we no longer place labels on the Islamic Believers, we determine what they are based on their Actions, not Nations of origin nor labels. As Fundamentalist Islam is NOT based on Nation of Origin, nor Labels (Sunnis, Shia, etc.).
For the same reason I keep telling Jonathan-1982062 to stop telling everyone to attack our few remaining US Allies.
The other thing that most posters refuse to recognize is that their concepts of the numbers of Fundamentalist Islamic Believers (their concept of "Extremist", "Radical" that marginalizes the numbers) is like Lieutenant Colonel Custer's understanding of how many "Indians" were at the Little Big Horn.
Just like theymisunderstand about, "attempting to negotiate";, with the Fundamentalist Islamic Believers, like the now deceased "Moderate", "Peaceful"; Islamic Believers attempted before the Fundamentalist Islamic Believers shotthem in the face as Islamic Heretics, as "The Dead do notcomplain (like old women)". As the reason why there are less and less of the "Moderate", "Peaceful" Islamic Believers. example: The "Moderate", "Peaceful" African Islamic Believers attempting to negotiate with the Arabic Omani Muslims at the Sudan (Darfur), as also from firsthand experience as a UN/UA (African Union) Observer.
At the end of the defeat of the USSR 40th Army Occupation, some of us were still at Afghanistan after the US abandoned 20th Century US Ally Afghanistan andsaw the rise of the 1990s Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban as fully backed by the USSR Backed Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran . First the 1990s Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban massacred the 1980s Pro US Afghan Muhajeen, then the massacred any "suspected" collaborators to the Christians, Jews, Unbelievers as "Collaborators Die a Horrible Murdering to Dwell in that FireyPlace"; then unopposed they started to destroy anything that was "Modern", "Western", "Non Islamic". That was the time for us to exfiltrate Afghanistan, and sent back to US Ally Iraq.
Most people do not even know where the 1990s Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban came from, unless they were here (Afghanistan)(same reason we know that USSR Tass News Agency was there filming the massacres when all other News Agencies were banned, we saw them), you can see this everytimeon Newsvine with posts saying that we created the 1990s Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban and the later Al Quada during Operation Cyclone (which we did not), or the other idea that they rose up from the Afghan People after Operation Cyclone (not true). As to why I keep saying that the Wikipedia version is False.
example:
"President Obama, this is your Army. We are ready to march. Let's take these son of b!tches out and give America back to an America where we belong," US Labor Union Leader Jimmy Hoffa Junior during President Obama's Reelection Campaign.
So mimi jacques, when proven WRONG by Documented Facts, the anticipated Deflection of Blame Game, Blame Game, Name Calling, Attempts to Discredit the Facts, Personal Attacks, two unrelated things equal to each other arguments, the without proof belief that they are being factual, their opinions are facts, etc.. In complete disregard to:
From President Obama's 2013 Inaugural Speech:
Then of course the attempt to shut up the documented Facts, with false claims of plagiarism (they don't even know the definition), popular opinion instead of documented Facts.
Lots of people fail to understand the concept that we do not want them to repeat the same or identical fatal mistakes we previously made, so that they survive so that they can replace us.
Good luck, mimi jacques, thanks again, keep posting the facts, maybe some of the facts will sink in. I am almost ready to just sit back and watch the "absolutism"*,"spectacle", "name-calling" (President Obama's 2013 Inaugural Speech). Did you ever think of applying with the US Intelligence Agencies.
*from the article: "If you’re not Muslim or don’t subscribe to the same narrow interpretation the militants do, they will oppose everything you do and do so violently if they need to."
Same as what I attributed to some Newsvine Posters from my experience with Islam, as worse than Islamic Jihadists based on their Newsvine posts.
Forgot the other attempt to discredit the facts "Post too long", "No one (only themselves) is going to read all of that", etc.. As they do not realize that many Facts are not as simple as they want them to be, or that an Error of Omission of Facts is a Lie.
"Even if they don’t agree with the superstitions".
That maxed out the ol' irony meter.
It seems religious beliefs that destroy civilization's artifacts shows that the "my way or the highway" approach of single-mindedness is the root of all attempts to understand any culture. It is not just Islam, but even Catholicism in the 1500s and on in Central, South and North America destroyed hundreds/thousands of cultural artifacts.
In the Mayan culture, Catholic Jesuit priests destroyed almost 90%+ of the Mayan Codex that spoke of their various gods and underworld beliefs of how the world was formed. Each culture has its own interpretation, however, in the "modern world", tolerance is not a trait that is practiced or even thought of - no matter waht culture or religion. The same occurred in South America when the Spaniards "discovered" new cultures.
In North America, the Native American culture was practically wiped out in favor of requiring theose peoples to learn the "white mans ways" and become civilized. The sadness is they were civilized long before the white mans arrival and "manifest destiny" sprung up.
A sad state of affairs, when people are too stupid to learn from past mistakes.
Good post. Christians destroyed Greek, Roman, and Egyptian Pagan "idols" and burned the library at Alexandria. Protestants smashed Catholic stained glass windows, and destroyed centuries old altars, statues, and shrines in 16th century England. I once put a box of books near the sidewalk for people to take, and a passerby pulled out a Bible and ripped it to shreds. Obviously, ignorance, intolerance, and destruction based on "superior" beliefs aren't just a Taliban thing. I despise the Taliban, but when we watch them do what they do, we see our collective selves as we once (hopefully) were.
Wow... Major break through in Intellectual thinking "Two wrongs make a right". Come on folks, lets do better than this.
Religions aren't the only ones that do this. If I were a country that invaded and conquered another country - I would smash the symbols of the conquered people to send a non-verbal message of my country's power. This is a power grab and any organization/group can do this. Granted - right now it's the radical Islamist that appear to be doing this. I just keep wondering - what would happen if we "destroyed" an alleged holy site such as that "Dome of the Rock", would they be so happy with the destruction? After all, at least two of the three major world religions do not accept that Mohammed was a prophet.
I despise the Taliban and I don't see myself in them. I am a child of my age - not the 16th century or the 18th century or any century but my own. I was raised to respect science. I am not a creature of superstition that thinks that the sun rising is a supernatural event. I do not think that a black cat crossing my path gives me bad luck. I do not believe in witches with broomsticks or goblins on Halloween. The Taliban were born in roughly the same era I was born - yet they chose to revert to the superstitious nonsense instead of using logic and reason. They use violence and the threat of violence. They don't respect history or value anything but their own wants and needs. The Islam that they worship is a perversion of the real religion. They destroy ancient historical artifacts because some strange supernatural force (that they claim is all powerful) can't destroy it except with the help of human hands. Yes - I'm shaking in my boots - what will this strange supernatural force do to me now that I've mocked it? (sarcasm)
jh: the problem is that most of these religious leaders are just like you (about science and don't subscribe to superstirions) but like any good charlatan (preist, pastor, imam, prophet) they use the "dumb natives" belief in the superstition to claim power over them and direct them, in order to gain wealth, adoration, power, influence and a purpose. These people could not be exploited if not for the NONSENSE they already believed, like suckers. They were just waiting for the next exploiter to come along and fleece, beat, rape, rob and sacrifice them all while convincing them it wasn't imam achme-dinnerjacket making them jump into that suicide vest but god, himself. The mental illness (religion) allowed them to be succeptible to exploitation as it does in EVERY RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATION the world over, since the invention of religion. That is the purpose of religion: to make people want to go kill someone, for someone else while being absolved of the responsibility of being murderers because they're dojng it for god. Yet curiously, the only people who ever benefit are the skeptics running the religions (who claim to be touched by god) and they'll never miss a charity dinner and always have the finest clothes YOUR money can buy. Praise Jesus, Allahu wut-the-fuq-ever.
....see Joel Osteen....
How is this different from the early Christian missionaries who came to central America? They conquered the Axtecs and destroyed their massive libraries. They couldn't read the codices, but assumed they must be religious and burned them anyway. Today only six of the codices remain intact out of tens of thousands. And, rather than religious most of them seem to be accounts of commercial dealings. But after the destruction of their heritage, they enslaved the people and killed most of them through disease, malnutrition and overwork. I was lucky enough to visit Mexico City and see the codices all together along with Montezuma's headress and cape of rare bird feathers. These were on loan from a museum in Spain. I talked with a guard at the museum who told me how hard it was to have to borrow the scraps of your own culture from another country because of the past disrespect over religion.
The difference is it's 2013 not the 17th or 18th centuries and as a species we are supposedly far more evolved in our thinking...yet apparently not! But to make archiac historical comparisons to events in the 21rst century is just erroneous and ludicrous to say the least.
With that mindset there is absolutely no hope of ever progessing beyond a near dark ages mentality of "whats good for the goose is good for the gander'. Talk about running around in circles! Why not address modern events with modern alternatives or comparison.
Hunt, people don't evolve in 200 or 3O0 years. It takes tens of thousands of years. Christians still use a Bible that was ordered by Constantine. He decided what you should read and you still follow what he told you to believe.
SECRETS OF CHRISTIANITY by Simcha Jacobovici
I greatly respect Simcha Jacobovici, a Canadian/Israeli who put forth an excellent series called 'Secrets of Christianity'. In this series, Simcha explores CONSTANTINE, and the historical record found in the arch he built in Rome.
We must open our eyes to Truth, which is often hidden in secrecy. I hope that Simcha Jacobovici, will prove that he is the master archeologist I so admire, by exploring the Gnostic Christian, interpretation of Yahweh The Demiurge.
It is through people like Simcha, that the Barbaric Satanic Verses, found in the Bible and Qur'an, will be exposed, and understood. The Father of ALL is love, and only love. Evil is a by-product of the material human.
GNOSIS: Knowledge conquers Ignorance
What Christianity couldn't destroy in every other religion they met--- they adopted. Virtually every single aspect of both major Christian holidays (Christmas, and Easter) is taken from pre-christian religions! Its ,mostly human nature. The only reason that many Christians in the good old USA aren't destroying icons they don't like today, is that they can't get enough like minded folks together to do the deed. Admit it, some of you-- you'd LOVE to go wipe out some Moslem icons!
It is sad that a bunch of extremist cowards and barbarians have nothing better to do than to destroy the world and expect everyone to bow down to them or be killed. The story tells of the 'idols' that are to be destroyed yet those Islamists are trying to be living idols. They are a bunch of sick people who because they live in a backward world, listen to their 'priests' or whatever they call them and their sense becomes warped. Now these are the people who should have their guns taken away, not us.
So true. I really believe they need to find some new hobbies.
As for the guns...."not us"...not sure who that is but there are plenty of cowards and barbarians in the states who should have their guns taken away. Lunatics are global.
Good job surpassing leftisfascist's level of absurdity and willful ignorance.
@Independant T, correction on the drug crap. It makes you listeless and hard drugs will make you do things you never thought you would do for your habit or because of the habit. Common sence tells me that if an opposing force is high or drunk they will be defeated easily. They have no coordination of will to move. I don't see the Extremist showing any signs of this handicap.
You see Independant, in the real world of combat you will die following your assanine belief.
And what did you do in combat? Besides soil yourself, that is. And hide in a hole in the ground until it was over.
Are you talking about Islamist extremists or the tea party?
ihare sakiichiban,
Thats a good one!! The tea party is just like your kindred brothers. Now go drive yourself off a cliff.
I always am amused at the ignorance of people who have no knowledge of the Tea Party, yet somehow feel qualified to talk about it. Typical leftist activity though.. They more you spew, the less credibility you have. You would do well to remove your heads from Chris Mathews posterior.
Randy,
Right on :)
And independent thinkerer,
Thank you for your service,ignore the buffoons that insult your service :)
Given that 94% of teabaggers oppose marriage equality while claiming to only be concerned about economic issues, it's easy to see that they're really just a branch of the Christian Taliban.
"Independant thinker" is dead on the money! And just a tiny delving into the history of warfare will substantiate their claims. If anyone thinks for a second that he or she is wrong about that... then just do a little research on the Japanese troops during WW11 or what Teddy Roosevelt faced in Cuba at the battle of San Juan hill. Then research why the army asked for a new type side arm and why the 45 showed up on the scene shortly after. Then I highly doubt that "Independant thinker" will seem too far off the mark to you people.
Hell...i'm sure there are enough VETS out there who could add a little about all this after going up against the VC at times.
Independant thinker...It's truly a shame that you have to defend yourself against such overwhelmingly arrogant ignorance!! The people in this country are so far removed from their own history and historical fact anymore that they aren't really worth replying to..if they don't see it on MTV and the internet it can't possibly be true. So good luck with trying to educate them otherwise... it's a lost cause for most! LOL.
SDN-- "I wonder when religion - any religion - became more important than life."
It always has been. You spend 60 or 80 years alive. You spend eternity in the afterlife. Common sense therefore dictates that you use your best-faith efforts to sift thru all the BS & come to your best conclusions about what you need to do in order to ensure the afterlife that you want. That is literally & infinitely more important than merely "enjoying life".
@graehame
That's the problem, like Muslim, people try to do their best to ensure their after-life and would careless about this life.
And what did they end up with? Using whatever excuse they can in hope of getting that after-life, would careless about everybody else and think only for themselves. They wouldn't care about the future, the next generations, they only care whether they can get into that after-life and they would do anything to get that.
@Cuong-- "That's the problem...people try to do their best to ensure their after-life and would be careless about this life."
I presume you're talking about Muslim suicide bombers & other murderers. If so, then those activities by any sane definition are barbaric, irreligious, & the rest of the civilized world has an obligation not to allow Muslims to immigrate into places like Europe & the US, but to band together to utterly destroy this insane parody of a religion. That's called self defense.
...and before you accuse me of tarring innocent, peaceful Muslims with the same brush that I use for terrorists, I'm a former US Army foreign area officer with a Middle Eastern specialty. As such I've been intensively trained on Islam, its teachings & practices, & their consequences. It's ironic how hard the official US Army courses on the subject try to tip-toe around the fact that the Q'uran officially teaches intolerance verging on terrorism, how most imams embrace this interpretation, & how suicide bombers would be canonized by Mohammed were he alive to do so. It is the very few innocent, peaceful Muslims who stand entirely outside of Islamic tradition, & not the terrorists.
Even more ironically, Islam stands self-refuted as a valid religious faith. Islam, unlike Judaism, embraces Jesus as a great prophet. But that interpretation is absolutely impossible. Jesus was either the Son of the Living God, or else He was a madman-- take your pick. B/c He claimed to be One with the Deity, & His followers clearly understood that aspect of His message. You can't make such a claim & still be a great mortal, human prophet. It's either true, or else you're nuts. So Islam is obvious BS, trying to have it both ways.
That being the case, I'd argue that it's impossible to-- as I said-- "use your best efforts" to figure out what's what spiritually, & then to end up in Islam. This is why Islam strongly suppresses anything resembling individual research into spirtual, religious matters. B/c in the light of truth, it can't survive.
I focus on Islam b/c your charges don't fit any aspect of Christianity that I'm familiar with. "Careless about everybody else"-- but Christianity teaches us to love our neighbor. "Wouldn't care about the future"-- but Christianity teaches us to be faithful stewards of God's creation. And so forth.
@graehame
So, for the past 2000 years, what have Christian and Catholic did to change the world for the better?
All your points, everything you said are mooted argument because guess what? For more than thousands of years, their behavior is almost the same as Muslim. Kill in the name of their god, destroy artifacts, hang heretic, carry crusade in the name of their God.
Again, for all your points, you failed to even understand what actually change before and after the introduction of religions or Christian in this case or Muslim. Absolutely almost the same.
Thus, historical standpoint already show you the answer, you just refuse to believe and see it.
@Cuong-- "So, for the past 2000 years, what have Christian and Catholic did to change the world for the better?"
You're evidently a materialist. And as a materialist, you misunderstand the fundamental purpose of Christianity. "Changing the world for the better" is peripheral-- & not central-- to that purpose. You think that it should be central b/c, as a materialist, all you see is the world. You're completely blind to the spiritual. But the central purpose of Christianity is to make the soul fit for the afterlife. "Changing the world for the better" is a minor consequence of that process, to the extent that it's successful-- but it isn't the purpose of it.
"...their behavior is almost the same as Muslim."
The similarities are b/c we're all human, & we share the same human failings. But the Christian failures that you cite were precisely that-- failings. They fell short of the Christian ideal, & as Christians we deplore them. But when Muslims engage in similar activities, those things represent their ideal. They applaud & take great pride in them. Those behaviors are enshrined & specifically taught in their Q'uran & in the hadiths of their various imams. Nowhere in the Bible will you find Christians told to make war against & slaughter the unbeliever. You will find words to that effect in the Q'uran. And so forth.
@graehame
That's garbage and you know that.
What the hell is spiritual? Can you measure it? How is the world become a better place?
The same crap they did before and after the introduction of religions, what kind of spiritual did they increase?
In a sense, spiritual is a selfish trait and only benefit that certain person.
And that is main point, Christian and other religions only care for THEMSELVES. They wouldn't want people to have better life, they only want a place in the after-life. Tell that to people in the past who go hungry each day, worry if they offense the church and get their village burn or family members get drag out for being heretic because a member of the church said so.
You can say all that about Muslim, but Christian's behavior is still the same. You think Bible has nothing about burn people and killing "infidel"? I was a Christian for 15 years here. Christians keep quoting Old Testament for your argument and then deny about it later. Guess what? Muslim also use Old Testament as well.
As for the Muslim, how much do you know about their culture? Because what people did together to revenge for Benghzi, it shows me differently that there are just many good Muslim as there are many good Christians.
@Cuong--
"That's garbage and you know that."
No, in point of fact I know it to be true.
"Christian and other religions...wouldn't want people to have better life, they only want a place in the after-life."
You need to actually read both the Q'uran & the Bible-- the NT-- as I have. Only in the Q'uran is someone who blows himself up to kill non-adherents of his religion promised a place in heaven with 70 virgins. Christianity has done more to improve the world than any other belief system you can name.
"Tell that to people in the past who go hungry each day..."
Do you happen to know what the largest relief & charity system in the world is? It's the Catholic Church.
"As for the Muslim, how much do you know about their culture?"
One hell of a lot more than you do. As I've said before, I was trained as a US Army foreign area officer with a Middle Eastern specialty.
"...there are just many good Muslim as there are many good Christians."
What you're missing here is that a "good" Muslim is required to pay "zakat", which is like almsgiving or tithing. Required. Except that a portion of "zakat" must be used to pay for jihad-- the eternal holy war against unbelievers. But Christianity has fought exactly one holy war in its entire history-- which came about because of Muslim aggression vs Christians-- & we've had our Christian noses rubbed in it ever since. And no Christian has ever been required, as a Christian, to pay one nickel to finance the killing of a single unbeliever. That's the difference.
I'm sorry, but I bring a wealth of education & erudition to this discussion, while your information is sadly deficient & you allow your prejudices & not your very limited reasoning ability to produce your conclusions. Those things being the case, our thought processes are just too dissimilar to make further discussion with you profitable for either of us.
@graehame
And like I said, "Spiritual" as you say is a very very selfish trait, it only work on the person for the purpose of getting a place in the after-life. The point is historical records would show you that is the fact how thousands of years, religions barely make the world better.
Catholic did a lot of charity, I don't deny it, but they are also the biggest recipient of donation in the world. Most of their charity has a purpose and that is to spread Catholic teaching further to get more donation later, they are not doing that for free. Furthermore, the amount of charity they gave back to the people is but a fraction of what they received in the first place.
Vatican is its own state, which require massive spending daily and that comes from donation. Not to mention the amount of lavish life style they spent each day from private helicopter, plane, private butler, private parties, private waiter/waitress and more.
That's the point, religions have to be very selfish to be able to survive until this day. And any religions that able to survive and prosper until this day and age are far from peaceful.
I admit I don't know much about Muslim except knowing that they use Old Testament and regard Jesus as another prophet. However, the idea of condemn over 1 billion people to die for the actions of few millions, anybody who think that make Hitler looks like a Saint with killing 6 million Jews.
As for the holy war, technically it was the Christian who was the first to make the move. However, later on, Christian not only start the Holy War with Muslim, but to other religions as well with their crusades. So Christian may not be as peaceful as you may think. At least they evolve and adapt better, but still far behind times.
Saudi Arab Chauvinism.
"Before Islam was the time of Ignorance" is often said by Saudis.
However true this might have been, it really only applies to Saudi Arabia.
Meanwhile brilliant civilizations flourished outside of SA, some of which were incorporated into the Islamic Empires after conquest. Saudis want to pretend that their interpretation of Islam is the End-All & Be-All.
And that turbine was putting out a lot of electricty, wasn't it?
There is a difference between cute and smart azz. That was cute.
Gee, tinkerbelle, you seem to have a lot of spare change on you. Most cranky old coots in the earlier stages of Alzeheimer's Disease, such as yourself, seem to fixate on money issues when not ranting about those damned teenagers on their lawn.
Thinkerer: What kind of energy do the blue turbines generate and how was she wearing one on her head?!? Was it one of those new efficient ones GE makes? How much did it weigh?
(I'm assuming you meant turbine and not turban, and asking the correct follow-up questions that's all.)
JayEll-1204918
And that turbine was putting out a lot of electricty, wasn't it?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yes, royally!
""Before Islam was the time of Ignorance" is often said by Saudis."
And "after Islam begins the time of howling stupidity."
As long as any group can destroy libraries, heritage sites, centers of learning, museums, little girls that just write blogs, then they succeed in keeping the masses in ignorance. As long as ignorance is supported in this way, then those deprived of learning will always be enslaved by their book-burning masters, whether through their mind-control, physical restraints or by some other sort of indoctrination.
As long as this behavior continues on any level by any religion, culture, political party, then we cease to move forward and be constructive. A true religion, political party, etc. that is VALID will always encourage its followers to ask questions, look at reality, see application, learn from all sorts of texts, museums, histories. If one's belief system, politics, history or whatever is real and true, then all the other records, documents, even statues, will be supportive in one way or another.
When one group destroys the culture and background of another, it's only because the fear the truth and the supporting documents. They fear the history that one can learn from. The are terrified that their minions will actually think for themselves. And they will lose that power over others that they so crave. And that's what it all boils down to--who has power over whom. And it's earthly power, not heavenly. If a god were all-powerful and omnipotent, it would not need a human to burn a library, it would simply hurl a firebolt from the heavens and do the deed itself. These ignorance-based terrorists have corrupted and invalidated their own belief system, god and prophet by their own destructive actions.
Laughing sideways Mr. Tinkerer! You get the prize for the month on the Vine!!! Blue turbines that put out lightning bolts? =^..^= Wowmeow, what a babe!!! Gottit! The secret clue! Now I will look for those windmills in the hidden mineshaft below the blue mosque powerdome. YOU know it belonged to the Queen of Heaven before those male chauvinist pigs stole it away. It could all be hidden right there! The ultimate answer! ya know? Like man that just blows my mine! Like man, Yu betchu and Cool dudes, like really, wow, like LMAO and that was too funny. Turbines, Indiana Jones style! Now that would sell! I will never not laugh at that fashion design again, now were those whirlies or VAWTS on that thing and did you see any flying carpets or VRILLS? 8|
You know it reminds me of what uncle albert and adolf used to say in the old daze about Marlena's legs, "Oh mine gott im himmel!", Well, and thats a deep one, but I can tell you most assuredly that today it would read "Oh mine effing gott im himmel!", really...don't you tink? 8D
I recommend that the world put their most precious locations on target for destruction, if they touch a single artifact anywhere ever again. These people only understand gangsterism. You must play hardball with them.
Promise to destroy 2, for everyone one they touch.
Sadly this is the only option that could possibly prevent them from doing it to more stuff.
The islamist want to destroy everything? What about Mount Arrat? I want to hear about that they are going to deal with that one. What do they think they are going to do when they get to the Vatigan? The wall of China or the Emporers' Palace. What about the Pyramids, how do they figure they are going to level them, heck we haven't even figured how they built them..
We can't save everything from the past. There would be no room for the future. And at the rate we are producing people, we will need all the room there is.
Our new technology now allows us to record about everything, so while the destruction of a physical object may be regrettable, it won't be lost to future generations.
Still -- they're just "begging for it". Someday, some country or some group will say,
"That's it! Enough of these freaks; we can't take it anymore!" and some new holocaust will ensue. They are just too much 'anti-civilization' and most of mankind won't have it.
......... "no room" for artifacts and sites that record the history of mankind on this planet? Go chow another cheeseburger (throw the packaging on the ground as usual).
Bill H-1430012:
Your response is just a bit short-sighted, just a bit. Your response makes it sound as though these Islamist extremists were merely discarding forgotten junk from a home attic or garage. While it is true enough that, no matter what historians may say, many ancient items are irrelevant, there are many ancient items that could provide learning experiences that cannot be digitized. Furthermore, today's "recordings" are by far less durable, less transmissible through time, than the real things.
Also, notice that whatever was contained in those destroyed manuscripts is now gone forever. So your statement that "we" can now "record about everything" is moot; "we" don't really have the time or dedication to "record about everything".
Independentthinkerer -- no. By the looks of your incorrect spelling and grammar in your online name, that's when YOU'RE begging for it.
After what I just read, I am convinced that these people are brainwashed and uncivilized; easily persuaded to kill and destroy at the call of an extremist "leader". Imagine one person having the influence over people's thought processes.
Obviously we will not prevail in the manner in which we approach this problem.
Gov't: " Imagine one person having the influence over people's thought processes."
We don't have to imagine it, just walk into any church, synagogue or mosque on Sunday from Pentecostal to 'Pentagram'al, all of them have it...even the Scientologists, it's like an epidemic of madness just we're not as desperate as they are. Not so far.
Ah,G.W what was your first clue?
"Imagine one person having the influence over people's thought processes." Lol.. that explains why "liberals" and the DNC in general are so corrupt.
@randy
that would seem to be general way things are going these days......i will have none of it!
Oh, so it is OK for Muslim extremists to destroy cultural artifacts, but when someone burns or defaces the Q'uran, one of their artifacts, it isn't alright. How does that work again? Do unto others ....
Tchr58: The last quran burning I heard about was by an Imam in afghanistan who claimed it was done by a village girl, (he was unsuccessful at raping her earlier that week so) he tried to frame her. Most of the higher-ups in these organizations (all religious organizations) don't give a poo about their dogma, they just know how to use it to get what they want from those who do. The town found out and exonerated her, but they never got rid of him anymore than we got rid of Jimmy Swaggert or Rick Warren.
Because there are millions of Q'urans in circulation and "cultural artifacts" (as the term is used in this article) tend to be unique. Destroy one Q'uran and you have not eliminated it as a "cultural artifcat." Destroy a city gate, a temple, or library, and you have completely eliminated those structures as "artifacts" from the face of the earth. That's why there's a difference.
Yes Dave, and that is every good archaeologist's nightmare. We are still angry about the museums that are being destroyed in recent times, luckily we had deciphered Cuneiform and recorded our finds before many of the precious relics of ancient Mesopotamia were destroyed in Iraq in that big shock and awe show. Poor things, persecuted from all fundamentalists on all sides. It is so sad that humanity fails and allows ignorance and prejudice to prevail just as science is really getting somewhere in solving ancient mysteries of early civilization and exploring new lands in outer space.
Religion is stupid.
"Religious" people are generally Christ-Clueless..........and I'm not judging, its merely spiritual discernment.
Water is wet, too.
Ignorance is stupid.. as you've just proven quite well.
Radical Islam=Nazism.
Consider again the gross ignorance and hypocrisy of a religion, any religion, that claims to hold "the truth". Religion does not operate on truth; it operates on "faith". The actual result is that religions can conjure up any nonsensical fantasies and/or bizarre myths and then expect "the faithful" to believe that such nonsense is literally true. The "faithful" then suspend even their most ordinary intelligence in order to believe the nonsense proffered by religion.
I must agree with those respondents who suggest that cherished Islamic holy sites should be destroyed in order to give these extremist Islamists a healthy dose of their own medicine. And THAT'S the truth.
You must have read Mark Twain's observation, "Man is the only animal that has the one, true religion. Several of them." And don't forget fundamentalist christians who believe in the literal interpretation of the Bible. They will occasionally beat the crap out of other fundamentalists over who's literal interpretation of the Bible is correct.
Damn straight, Bmette. Nothing but ignorant morons. I think their turbines are wrapped around their heads too tight and it's cutting off the blood supply to what little brain matter they posses.
Yes Adam, especially twisted if they are VAWTS (verticle axis wind turbines) and especially watch out for the blue ones that put out lightning bolts! LOL!!!
Tell the Muslims that Mecca and Medina will be targets if they do not stop destroying others religious artifacts.
Christian expansion=Crusades.......Islamic expansion=Terrorism
Whatever you want to call it, both the Crusades and the "Terrorism" killed thousands of people and destroyed artifacts. The Christian Crusades were no different from terrorism.
Hot Damn'd, Old Leftis does have 1 working Brain Cell to a degree.
Ummmmm.....how many centuries ago did the Crusades occur? It kills me when people try to compare different epochs in a way to justify present day behavior and to either bash this country or Christianity. Pitiful!!!!
The Crusades were a blood bath....and certainly are one of the low points in "Christian" history. Certainly, wiping out whole civilizations (to reclaim the Holy Land) is not very Christ-like.
Ignorant bastards
FINALLY! Someone described Muslim extremists as ULTRACONSERVATIVE, which they actually are!
Because Hagel is not a jewish pawn and sees the fraud that is being perpetrated by zionism on the world. He once said that " I am a United States senator, not an Israeli senator". I am not anti-semite, I am anti- zionist. Even real jews are against zionism. Personally I think he is a good choice.
Actually they are described as having a narrow view-partisan (zealot).
I hope someone drops a @!$%#ing bomb right on the kaaba, since these @!$%#s seem to think it's OK to show people that their holy places have no real power. Let's see how much they like their approach turned on their own @!$%#. The smug look on the @!$%#'s face in the picture in this article makes me want to bitch-slap him.
Nothing would be accomplished by us sinking to the level of the ULTRACONSERVATIVE MUSLIM terrorists, as Glenn Beck has suggested, concerning destroying Mecca! We Americans are better than that!!
The fundamentalist/ultra conservative "christians' are no better.
You mean the bible-thumping, bunker-building, apocalypse preppers, who believe that they shall inherit the earth after all the heathens will be destroyed, and once the fallout reaches acceptable levels? Yeah, they are scarier to me, particularly because they live right here.
Glenn Beck could also be viewed as a Pot Smoking, Tree Hugging Hippie. I bet he owns some gun though as you gotta protect your Stash.
Bible -Thumpers, thats a good one! Haven't built me no bunker yet, figure I don't need one, 'cause i've got a BIBLE, YEAH!!! The scary part is already here people, we in America have become anything BUT American!
More junk in our trunk than any other country in the world! History has revealed on many occasions that "these" different cultures that are flooding in cannot and will not co-exist. But hey, we are the world!!
Get a grip people and open your eyes to the filth we call entertainment, alternative lifestyles, free choice, 55 million babies murdered since RoevWade. Now thats Progress!!What a Great place to live!!
May GOD Bless America Again!!
"If they don’t agree with what’s in them … they seem to think it’s OK to burn these books," he said. "If you’re not XXXXXXX or don’t subscribe to the same narrow interpretation the militants do, they will oppose everything you do and do so violently if they need to."
How ironic that Fundamentalist 'Christians" are EXACTLY the same.
I have no use for Fundamentilist either.
No, fundamentalist Christians are not the same as Muslims. Not even remotely. You need to learn what the word "fundamental" means.
The real difference between a Fundamentalist Christian and a Fundamentalist Muslim is this:
A Fundamentalist Christian would lay down their lives to save yours while forgiving those who take it from them.
While a Fundamentalist Muslim would lay down their lives to take yours and condemn all who stand in their way.
Jesus taught to love and forgive thy enemies. Muhammed taught to condemn and force your enemies to submit.
Jesus taught, let he who hath no sin cast the first stone. Muhammed taught that stoning was the only way to be cleansed of mortal sin.
Jesus excorcised demons. Muhammed was possessed by demons.
The scriptures of Christ are from him and his disciples alone. Muhammed plagerized and embellished the Torah.
Jesus never questioned the the actions of Yahweh. Muhammed specifically said that Yahweh and Allah are the same yet Allah was superior because Allah did not need to rest on the seventh day of creation.
Jesus, by all accounts was celebate. Muhammed by all accounts consumated a marriage to a prepubescent nine year old girl.
Early Christianity spread through word of mouth and preaching of the gospel. Islam was and still is spread by the point of a sword.
Jesus taught discretion in faith and tolerance of others. Muhammed taught aggression of faith and intolerance of all that do not accept the authority of Islam.
Jesus taught, honesty in all that we do. Muhammed taught that dishonesty is not only permissible to gain advantage over an enemy of Islam, it is praiseworthy.
See the difference in fundamentals? Probably not.
leftisfascist- is that you Jerry Fallwell??? They have internet access in hell do they?
This obviously has to do with ignorance more than religion. It is a shame those idiots are doing such things. They should be called extremist idiots, who exist in all religions. Something similar is happening in jerusalem and around, that unfortunately is kept quite. israel is destroying any historical Palestinian artifacts in effort to continue their ethnic cleansing and erase the Palestinian identity. It has been confirmed by many accounts...
Sam
The definition of religion is ignorance but the real problem is extremism.
No matter what religion you talk about, what political party you subscribe to, what football team you favor, if you are in favor of abortion or not, care about the environment when extremism enters the picture things always go bad.
Unfortunately, you are exactly right. It is ALWAYS ignorance rather than the religion itself. Now, if you can get the fundementalist, right wing "christians" to understand that they, too, are exactly the same......
Sane people agree. There is no excuse.
whats the big deal with them taking a dislike to others beliefs or traditions right! people here in America do it all the time in a non violent way, by passing laws against flags, clothing with words displayed, ten commandments banned, so on and so on.....4 more years baby!
4 more years?
@nednkat, There is something your missing here. There are a lot of things here that are society oriented, both religious and non-religious people don't view as, what do you call it, oh infringing on your rights. Like walking around in a T shirt that say says F**k You on it in big bold letters. These are people that don't feel their rights are being infringed upon. These people, like you, have the same freedoms, but there is part of sociaty that feels that they have the freedon to slap sociaty by going extreme on it. Which puts you in the same boat as the Extreme Islamist.
Let us not forget Darth Vader, Hannibal Lecter, and Ming the Merciless.
Honestly I think the Islamists extremists destroy these things because they want to do what Big Brother did in the book 1984. The reason I say this is because is it easier to: [tell children that something is evil and they can see it for themselves and see it is not] or [tell children that something is evil and they cannot see it for themselves and just know about it from word of mouth]? I am thinking the second one is most relevant here.
If you destroy the momuments, shrines and statues then there is no proof of what you said is wrong.
But in this day and age we have books and pictures and the internet so we can judge things for ourselves and determine what is true and what is not. Granted some use it for bad intent and others use it for good intentions, but it comes down to the individual.
Isn't that the same thing as the idiots down in TX are doing with revamping history and science books?
Ironic that the fundemental extremists "Christians" are exactly the same.
My Goodness, It is a well known fact that History Books are wrong but Schools cannot afford to get the updated versions every year. It is a well known fact that others were here long before Columbus ( Americus Vesputious) to be exact.
Science is forever changing as we become more knowledgable. The big bang theory wasn't believed by many but was taught that this did happen for many years, but the Math didn't fit the Equation.
Extreme religions of any kind should be rooted out and destroyed. They all are holdouts from an ignorant past and should not be tolerated. Take tolerance out of our politically correct dictionary. I'm talking about all religions. Born again "christians" like some of the nutjobs in the US. Jews with their foolish costumes, stinking muslim extremists, adulterous child marrying mormons, papists whose minds are controlled by a fat man in Italy who lives in luxury on the pennies of the poor from around the world. Route them all out, burn down their buildings and their foul books and let the world live in peace without them.
Any religion that can't "live and let live" should be attacked by decent people and made to stop or suffer the consequences.
Also, I might add, since I live in the US, these stupid politicians who bring their religion into politics and draft laws that use their form of what is right or wrong and foist it on all of us.
Yet, in the planet's history the religion most responsible for hatred, malcontent, starting wars and actually killing millions of non-believers over the centuries have been the Catholics. Go figure.
Might be extreme, but right now this country needs some EXTREME! And since you are for irradicating all religions, lets start with yours, Atheism!
Again, someone who calls the absence of religion a religion. Get an education.
Now that statement to me does not scream atheist. Even though I am a christian i agree with him. Because unlike most in my religion, I don't feel the need to force others to follow it. If your religion can not survive without you needed to force others to believe as you do maybe it shouldn't. A good Christian should set a good example. Trying to bend the law to force others to practice your religion in fact forces people away from it not draws them to it.
@Perry,
i'm not a catholic but id like to see you back up your claim with numbers from a real source.
If all of you were in a room together you would kill each other to express your stupid opinions. You should hear yourselves bicker back and forth with no fear of retaliation. No AK-47's, no suicide bombers, no poison gas, no drones. Not one of you would ever post your home address here.
What is your address?