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Subscribe to RSSLONDON - Britain's parliament voted heavily in favor of legalizing gay marriage on Tuesday, but Prime Minister David Cameron's authority in his own party took a blow as his Conservatives split in two over the measure he had championed.
In the first of several votes required for its passage, the lower house of parliament backed the legislation by 400-175, but more than half of Cameron's 303 lawmakers voted against or abstained, signaling deep unease with it and his leadership.
During a debate that lasted more than six hours, many Conservative MPs denounced the legislation, saying it was morally wrong, not a public priority, and unnecessarily divisive, threatening a corrosive legacy of bitterness.
Conservative lawmaker Gerald Howarth told parliament that the government had no mandate to push through a "massive social and cultural change."
"This is not evolution, it's revolution," added Edward Leigh, another Conservative member of parliament, saying marriage was "by its nature a heterosexual union."
Although the vote went Cameron's way, many analysts believe he will now have to address a deep seam of discontent running through his party.
He made a last minute televised statement ahead of the vote, arguing gay marriage would make society stronger.
"I'm a big believer in marriage. It helps people to commit to each other, and I think that's why gay people should be able to get married too," he said.
He later hailed the result of the vote as "a step forward for our country."
Cameron is trying to perform a tricky balancing act: to reconcile his desire to show his party is progressive, with the views of many in it who are uncomfortable with such a reform.
Amid talk of a possible leadership challenge to Cameron, many Conservative lawmakers say the prime minister is sacrificing core party values on the altar of populism.
"He hasn't got a lot of political capital left in the bank," Stewart Jackson, a Conservative MP who opposes the gay marriage bill, told Reuters before the vote. "He has to deliver some authentic Conservative policies very soon."
Such talk is rife among some Conservative lawmakers and follows a spate of articles in the British press in which a handful of MPs raised the possibility of ousting Cameron, a prospect most commentators regard as far-fetched before the next election in 2015.
Grievances against Cameron
Conservative MPs' grievances are many: that Cameron is "arrogant," that he is too fond of the European Union, that the party's policies have been diluted by its coalition partner after Cameron failed to win the last election outright, and a nagging fear that he will not win the next one.
The gay marriage initiative has infuriated rank-and-file party activists and a protest letter signed by 25 past and present chairmen of local Conservative associations warned that members were starting to resign over the issue.
Justin Welby, the newly elected Archbishop of Canterbury and head of the world's 80 million Anglicans, used his first comments after being confirmed on Monday to reiterate his own opposition to gay marriage.
Faced with strong opposition from the Anglican and Catholic churches, the law would not force them to conduct gay marriages, but critics say gay people may launch legal challenges.
A YouGov poll for the Sunday Times on Sunday showed 55 percent favored legalizing gay marriage, while 36 percent opposed it. However, the same poll showed the issue was not one that concerned most voters.
The new law proposes legalizing same-sex marriage in 2014. It would also allow civil partners to convert their partnerships into marriages.
Gay marriage supporters say that while existing civil partnerships for same-sex couples afford the same legal rights as marriage, the distinction implies they are inferior.
In a sometimes emotional debate on Tuesday, several gay MPs from different parties took to their feet to commend the bill, describing the prejudice they had suffered growing up.
"Millions will be watching us today," said Nick Herbert, a gay Conservative MP. "Not just gay people but people who want to live in an equal society."
The vote was warmly welcomed by Cameron's junior coalition partners, the Liberal Democrats, and by the opposition Labour party, while gay rights group Stonewall called the result "a truly historic step forward."
Tuesday's vote in the House of Commons was "free," meaning MPs were able to vote according to their conscience, rather than under party orders.
The bill is still many stages away from becoming law, and some of its opponents called on Cameron after the vote to consider amending it to appease their concerns, promising they would try to frustrate its progress through parliament.
Warning of divisions
Peter Kellner, president of pollster YouGov, said he felt the parliamentary rebellion would hurt the Conservative party.
"For Cameron, gay marriage is part of his attempt to persuade the voters that his party belongs to modern, 21st century Britain," he wrote on the pollster's site.
"But the divisions that the gay marriages bill has unleashed ... threaten to send an altogether different message: that the Tories are divided, out of touch and prone to quarrel over issues of little concern to most voters."
With the next election still two-and-a-half years distant, there is a risk that internal party splits over issues like gay marriage could fester and turn what for now is only talk of a possible leadership challenge into the real thing.
"David Cameron has split the Conservative Party in half on gay marriage and failed to win a majority of Tory MPs. Labour win," Jackson, the Conservative MP, wrote after the vote.
Copyright 2013 Thomson Reuters. Click for restrictions.
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Hopefully the Tories will oust Cameron and bring back Margeret Thatcher.
i agree mr stamp
Congratulations Britain! I'm glad another country has its head screwed on straight! Everyone deserves to marry their significant other.
Someday this will all be behind us, it won't matter who marries who. Can't wait.
yea licking a mans butt hole what a mental case you need lots of meds
Just another way to tear down their country......No offense, but it will always matter who marries who......
bandit-1386936
You spend a lot of time thinking about stuff like this.
Its about love. Get over yourself and your thoughts.
yea im sure its about love you still need years and many years of therapy
The ConservatIves are not the ruling party in Britain. They are in coalition with the Liberal Democrats.
The ConservatIves are not the ruling party in Britain. They are in coalition with the Liberal Democrats.
Blimey! They shan't want to be backing that amendment too hard, folks!
Wow! reson, reality and wisdom rears it's head AGAIN!
Don't you mean "resin" (you put reson). I think resin makes more sense.
I'm guessing it's the same as always, people don't want it; gays do. Gays manipulate legislation, pass it off as popular vote during lame duck session...Yet again.
MANIPULATE? You closed minded idiots just do not get it...how is it that equal tax paying humans wanting equal rights is "manipulating" anything? YOUR rights are not affected, straight homophobe! You are just hateful, ignorant and closed minded...Keep it to yourself if you are that intolerant- it has nothing to do with you- you selfish person you.
ItIsWhat!t!s
Errr this is the UK there is no such thing as lame duck. That's purely a US invention. In the UK if the government can not make or pass laws it is not longer the government and a new election must be called.
No suprised, they go for inbreeding too...
C.A. Powell
That's the best you can come up with? Well, small minds.....
Sorry, Powell, you spelled "equality" wrong. You'll get the hang of it, it's inevitable.
C.A. Powell- first, you sound ignorant...It takes so much more energy to be negative than it does to let things just be...Minds are opening and people are evolving, that is a good thing. If you find that a bad thing- it just tells me more about YOU. Happy up a bit, you will live happier rather than being a bitter 'ole curmudgeon...Progress is good, not living with hatred and looking down on people is needed. Lastly, the last name "POWELL" is Welsh and English...so now you just insulted your heritage- seems you need to gain some education. peace.
Verbal gymnastics don't conclusively validate being homosexual and neither does science, but the gay community is so busy begging the question they never find time to actually answer it. That's before you get to a bad case of projection. Bigotry is mainly a conservative flaw that gay and lesbian supporters point out remain dogmatically devoted to support of their own intolerance. So there's no bigots on the liberal side? Get into an argument with a pro-gay bigot, and they always have the winning hand cause the "homophobia" card trumps all. In the mean time we should just give gays everything they want, pamper them, and deny any realistic facts the media under-reports in an attempt to push for normalization of the gay lifestyle. I've heard everything from love to equality to marrying for benefits, but I have yet to hear any thing that biologically or morally substantiates homosexuality.
Homosexuals have never produced a solely biological cause for homosexuality. It's believed to be the product of the environment, with possible biological causes.
You're a hateful , homophobic, bigot what would you know?
But homophobia isn't even a clincal condition. What am I supposed to be afraid of human beings?
No! You're just secretly.....afraid of your own desires...
Because I'm opposed? But I am also opposed to roaches, stepping in dog crap, and 5'oclock traffic that doesn't mean I like any of those things..
You got that off of FRC didn't you? Here's my correlated statistics, filtered through my denial, written in the language of probability that justifies my begging the question, cause science will eventually answer the question.
But correlation doesn't equal causation....
That's just ignorant. I'm through talking to you....
What legitimate compelling interest does the UK have in same sex marriage again?
ItIsWhat!t!s
Science does and has always validated the existence of homosexuality in man and nature.
Of course there are liberal bigots, anyone who tries to ridicule and belittle someones religion is a bigot just as someone who tries to belittle and ridicule someone merely becasue who they love is also a bigot.
This is about equality, people merely wanted to be treated equal not special. You obviously have a problem with this somewhere not sure why. Also please stop thinking you know what science has or has not proven I have seen several of your writings on this topic and all are embarrassingly wrong.
Small something Krestov... (re; CA powell)
well who'ada thunk?
Question:
If we allow our leaders to sissy us down like the British are
then who will bail europe out of the next world war ?
OH WAIT !!!! If we are sissied down who is going to bail us out
of the next world war ?
I dare you to say that in front of a gay soldier's face.
I have gay friends. Alot of difference in being gay and
accepting gay marriage. There's where alot of people get
lost in the tolerance arguments. I don't tell gay people how
to live. But if you allow gay marriage then you are changing
my social culture. If I can be tolerant and open minded concerning
gays then gays should respect my feelings also.
There's always the French to rely on.....LOL
bamerjammer
Tolerance and Open Minded include support equal rights for all does it not? If you don't think that gays/lesbians are entitled to the same marriage rights you have, then you are being intolerant and closed minded.
How does gay marriage hurt you?
bamerjammer:
When did you get to declare ownership of society's social culture? Your culture is your own. keep it to yourself. If two guys or two gals getting married is a threat to you, then you should seriously book an appointment with a psychiatrist to resolve these insecurities of yours.
Wonder how Brittan's ever expanding Muslim population will take to this.
bamerjammer ... they ARE respecting your rights. You can marry whoever you want, and they aren't making a fuss over it, and saying you should be treated as a second-class citizen.
You don't approve of gay marriage? Don't marry someone of the same gender. Two guys or two gals getting married doesn't affect you or infringe on your rights at ALL. Stop being selfish by demanding other fully-grown adults live their lives by your preferences.
Go Lola...these ignorant homo-phobes saying their rights are affected are amazing...I keep hoping that they will just die off, amongst all the other weak and small-minded. Either way, Equal rights for ALL is progress and that is needed.
Really? And how's that happening? Are you being forced to marry someone who's gay or of the same-sex? Among all your "gay friends," are you being forced to go to their weddings or buy them a blender or give them a Hallmark card with five bucks in it? Just how is your "social culture" changing?
Just like you have "gay friends," I have straight friends. Some of them dumped their spouses after over 30 years of marriage and got divorced because they wanted to hook up and marry some young hotsy-totsy thing. That goes against my "social culture." Even though they were my friends, and most remained so, I refused to recognize their divorce and remarriage because they wanted something other than the partners they commited their life to. A vow is a vow. So I wouldn't go to their weddings, I wouldn't give them a gift, and while I'm polite and inclusive of entertaining these betrayers of marriage and their faux "spouses" (even though they are legally married), I have made it clear they will never be married in my eyes and I will never introduce them to others I know as married. I have no tolerance for straights who throw away marriages that have lasted for decades just because one of them feels he needs another way to get his pickle tickled and found some tart to do it with.
Yet, your straight world allows and condones these types of divorces and "remarriages." It's the law and I have to accept it. I have to accept that friends dumped their loving spouses because they're nothing but self-centered egotists. But I socially don't have to recognize it and I don't. As far as I'm concerned, my friends are still married to their original spouses and I introduce them as such (much to the delight of the dumped spouse and the chagrin of the dumping spouse and his [it's almost always a he, but not every time] legal but socially unacceptable "spouse."
So there you have it. Your straight laws grant this and I accept it. I have no other choice. But I don't have to socially accept it and I don't. When you straights start re-tightening the divorce laws that have allowed your kind to rip marriages and families apart for the sake of some self-centered low-life, then you and I can talk. Until then, it doesn't matter what you think about legality and sociology.
Hey Bamer, do you have binders full of gay friends? Well, that does not make you an expert in anything. If you want to know what narrow mindedness look like? Get a mirror.
Gay marriage does not in anyway influence my marriage, my culture or my way of life. Equality means equality for all. If my spouse can collect my military benefits if I die first then the spouse of any gay soldier should be able to do the same.
bamerjammer
Funny thing is your social structure does not change at all, ask the people in Canada, I find it hard to believe any true American would stand for inequality and freedom in their own country I guess this is a the reason the US is not known as the most free country in the world.
Right, Krestov. New Hampshire is still the same old New Hampshire, only better.
I guess they're weird over there too.
I guess they recognize that people deserve to marry the person they love. Not weird, REAL
Wierd.
How ironic when you only believe in freedom for yourself.
Britain has fairies?
You need to grow up a little, your handle name is a joke after reading your comments.
Euro trash strikes again!
if they pass it, i wouldnt be there to help them next time they need us??? its against the bible, its against the law, and thats the facts! ! ! ! !
The Bible is not a legal document, so what your imaginary beardy friend in the sky says is not relevant.
So there are no laws based on the bible?
Actually, no. Laws are not based on the Bible. The Bible came up with the Ten Commandments as a way of codifying both their religious beliefs and common sense rules of behavior. In case you haven't noticed, very few people live by the Ten Commandments. Honor the Sabbath? How many people go to church every single week and take a day of rest? Or do they mow their lawns and go golfing and work on their home improvement projects? Don't take the name of the Lord in vain? How's that one working? Thou shalt not commit adultery? There is no anti-adultery law in any of our legal codes. Honor they father and they mother? Been around any teen-agers lately? When is the last time a teen was arrested for being disrespectful to his parents? Thou shalt not covet thy neighbors house, or his wife or his livestock, etc. etc. There seems to be plenty of coveting and envying going on in the world.
We do have laws against murder and theft, but those laws are pretty much universal in any culture, Christian, Jewish, Hindi, or Muslim. So you can't really say that they're Bible based.
We design laws that make society work better. I don't know of any laws in the Bible that address bank fraud or check kiting, but we have laws against that because it makes society more workable.
There is no basis for preventing the marriage of gays. It deprives them of the rights of opposite sex couples in terms of inheritance, social security benefits, even hospital visitation. Any law that deprives couples of their rights is a bad law. You don't have to recognize their marriage. You don't have to like homosexuality or same sex couples, but you do have to grant them the same rights as any other citizen.
@underemployed - Their whole argument for denying gay marriage starts in the Old Testament with the tale of Sodom/Gomorrah and is reinforced using Leviticus. However, the Sodom/Gomorrah story falls apart when you consider a few things:
-Lot had taken in angels as guests. In some ways, you could consider them to be part of "God", and thus the intention of violating them would be akin to violating "God", so to speak. (Mentioned first sentence of Genesis 19)
-When Lot offers his daughters in exchange for the angels (remember that they were defined as such in Verse 1 of Genesis 19), the Sodomites say that "We'll treat you worse than them!". Pay attention to that bolded part. Why would it say that if the Sodomites were trying to be peaceful? Sounds to me like their actions after imply they went for rape, and that's where "God" drew the line.
-When Lot and his family fled Sodom/Gomorrah, apparently his wife looked back, became a pillar of salt, and thus became one half of the Dead Sea. Now, has anyone actually figured out the measurements of Lot's wife? Or found ruins of Sodom/Gomorrah at or around the Dead Sea? In the case of the first question, has anyone actually tried to recreate the Dead Sea using a human sized compound of salt? This whole thing right here makes zero sense, scientifically speaking (especially given the Dead Sea's size and salt content).
-After the Sodom and Gomorrah incident, Lot became drunk and committed incest with his two daughters. Why did God get so lenient on him for that, especially considering that God hates divorce so friggin' badly (Mentioned later in Exodus when he creates the whole adultery thing in the Ten Commandments)? And need I dare bring up the whole fact that the whole story makes almost ZERO mention of how old those girls were? AND HE'S APPARENTLY STUPID ENOUGH NOT TO REALIZE THAT HE JUST BANGED HIS DAUGHTERS?! I mean, he had to be seriously blind not to notice his naked daughters next to him in bed.
This is only a small sample of the craziness that comes from the Old Testament, and people ignore the finer details of the story like it doesn't matter.
(Btw, pedophilia isn't mentioned in the Sodom and Gomorrah story - it merely says "young and old" which could mean young adults and old geezers; the passage isn't specific on the ages. Just thought I'd add that before I sign out, since some people may want to cover their hides before that excuse gets brought up)
Were you drunk when you wrote this? It doesn't follow the logical order of things.
Lot didn't know they were angels when he took them in. So you are implying a lot in this statement.
Sodomites were never known to be peaceful, which is why God sent the angels. It does not mean it only refers to rape.
20 Then the Lord said, “The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous 21 that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know.”(Genesis 18: 20-21)
So tell me something, in your infinite knowledge of the Dead Sea, explain to me how the writers of Genesis would know that Sodom and Gommorah were located in the dead sea. The fact that they mentioned it, proves that at least that point was accurate. It also proves the fact, that the dead sea, because of its mineral composites, was at one time extremely fertile. So much so that nowadays, people bathe in the mud for its healing properties.
What do you mean that God allowed that? They produced demon spawn. Ammorites and Moabites; people always at war with Israel. Apparently those girls were the problem and not Lot. They thought nobody else was around and they would die childless. And in those days, no children meant no one to take care of you in your old age.
Again, were you drunk when you wrote these comments?
So what if this pissant island backs gay marriage,why should I care, what good does it bring to this nation or even mine, what postive effect does this leave?
Its a PR stunt to ruin and devalve the institue of straight marriage, its an attack on straight culture and a money maker for the lawyers that will pick clean the bones of the Gay victims that rush into marriage during this heated fade of I do's!
Whatever the tiny UK island nation does isn't important,I mean they can't have knifes or guns,they pay almost 30% tax on goods and have the highest unemployment rate and a crime rate that is unequal in any first world country of its size, save for the other anti gun paradise called Chicago!
Back whatever you whatever you want but remember there's legal and then there's morally wrong, its a suckers bet and a mean trick that's being played on the gay's!
50% of straight marriages end in divorce anf you're worried that gays will ruin and devalue the "institution" of marriage? If marriage is that sancrosanct, then why not make divorce illegal?
Source of that claim, please?
The whole world is going downhill towards immoral living and debauchery, every day. What is wrong with people ? Are they really getting that far out of kilter and mentally sick ? Seems like the few sick one's are ruling over the people with morals and good christian living anymore.
It's a disease Bill, carried by Liberals.
The only "disease" that I see is on display here is the disease of intolerance. Didn't your parents ever teach you "if you can't say something nice, don't say it all?"
Sheesh! Talk about lack of morals!
The whole world is moving forward. You are looking backwards, so it's going to look off-kilter to you. Turn around and start walking.
Jay, why do I have to be tolerant of anything? Tolerance is not a moral. I disagree with gay or lesbian marriage and I don't believe that parenting by such unions have the child's best interest in mind. I could go on but to what end.
Greg-2505403
Because intolerance towards something that does not affect your life in one little bit is demonstrative of an insecurity. Same sex couples getting married will not affect your life one little bit. The only way it will, is if you let the thought of two same-sex couple getting married bother you. I suggest you stop thinking about it and your problem will be solved. As for your belief that children shouldn't be raised by people who are gay, well, that's your belief. You're entitled to it. Your belief, however, doesn't reflect the truth of reality.
"why do I have to be tolerant of anything?"
Greg ---- what would Jesus say ?
Basically? Making yourself appear less and less rational while also making yourself appear more and more isolated.
now when i say im going to smoke a fag will it be takin the wrong way?
Grow up.
Thank you bill you hit it,morality
There will be a day of judgement.
And the bigots will suffer for their narrow-minded inane hatred.
So, everyone that disagrees with you is a bigot? I, without prejudice, think gay and lesbian marriage or union unnatural. I don't care if you don't like it no matter how much you scream, yell and throw insults.
Greg-2505403
Honey, thinking that us homosexuals are unnatural IS prejudice. I personally don't care if you think we are or aren't, however. It's your problem. Not mine.
Greg-2505403
And the majority disagrees. Look after your own soul its not your place to look after anyone elses.
Several steps from becoming law? Why is this news? And, "What difference does it make?"
It must make a difference to you; you're all stimulated by it !
Once passed by the Commons, the remaining steps are generally a formality. The House of Lords can only delay legislation, it can't stop it.
And once again, England demonstrates how backwards the US still is.
God made Adam a d Eve where did all the rest of this come i Roman1 Verse 20 covers it all .
But when you're not religious, the Bible is virtually meaningless.
If there is a god, then presumably we would all be considered children of God, in which case, God made Adam, and Steve, and Eve. God also made John, and Paul, and Ryan, and Susanne, and Elizabeth, and Emily, and Gordon, and Larry, and Bob, and Janette, and Sally, and Meredith... Well, I could go on, but you get the picture.
Oh, and as for that bible verse you alluded to: Romans 1:26- 28: 26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
This verse is clearly discussing heterosexual males and females engaging in ritualistic sex rites. They were involved in idol worship and some of it had sexual expressions. Note the words "natural." If heterosexuals are naturally inclined to seek sexual relationships with people of the opposite sex (which they are), then by having sex with someone of the same sex would be to go against their nature. This would not be true of homosexuals, who would naturally be inclined to seek sexual relationships with people of the same sex. If they were to go against their nature, then they would instead engage in sexual activity with people of the opposite sex. But then, all this hinges on the false belief that gays choose to be gay. If that belief is wrong (which is clearly is), then the verse cannot be used to condemn homosexuality. All the verse does then, is condemn idol worship, and pagan sex rites.
eZflowzaJmorphinecarnival
Or maybe it's silly to think that laws in the 21st century should reflect the words in a book written a couple thousands of years ago by people who had little to no understanding of the world around them. The Bible is a book. It's a good book, but it's just a book nonetheless. It belongs in a library, a church, or in your home. It does NOT belong as part of our laws.
The largest growth of HIV cases is in the heterosexual population, not the homosexual population. Yes, there is a high percentage of gay men who are infected, but they by no means the largest segment of the population afflicted with the virus. Do some actual research, eZflowzaJmorphinecarnival, and stop regurgitating the same ugly talking points most anti-gay groups like to spew out. Especially when those talking point have no basis in fact. But then, looking at your posts, it seems you relish in your ignorance. Is it bliss?
Says the guy talking about a magic Jewish zombie whose Dad is the ruler of everything
if Briton can pass gay marriage then Briton can let Ireland be her own country!!! Long live I.R.A and The Free Irish Nation!!!! The British have soiled her lands long enough ERIN GO BRACH!!!! may Ireland be finally be Free!!!! The limey trash has worn out their welcome. Ireland will never recognize gay marriage at least the Catholic and pure Christians so by the grace of the lord thy god may Ireland be finally be free!!!
Ireland is its own country and has been free since 1922.
I assume you are talking about Northern Ireland.
you bet long live Northern Ireland may we one day be free!!!!!
It's Britain, silly.
u1022575
hmmm I’m guessing the protestant Irish in northern Ireland don’t get a say in this according to you huh? You know the ones that want to remain part of the UK and have fought very hard for such a thing. Oh wait don’t tell me they aren’t true Irish huh?
uio33575
So blowing up children with bombs is so much more virtuous than people who love each other getting married.
Verbal gymnastics don't validate being homosexual and neither does science, but the gay community is so busy begging the question they never find time to actually answer it. That's before you get to a bad case of projection. Bigotry is mainly a conservative flaw that gay and lesbian supporters point out remain dogmatically devoted to support of their own intolerance. So there's no bigots on the liberal side? Get into an argument with a pro-gay bigot, and they always have the winning hand cause the "homophobia" card trumps all. In the mean time we should just give gays everything they want, pamper them, and deny any realistic facts the media under-reports in an attempt to push for normalization of the gay lifestyle. I've heard everything from love to equality to marrying for benefits, but I have yet to hear any thing that biologically or morally substantiates homosexuality.
But they never produced a gay gene?
You're a hateful , homophobic, bigot what would you know?
But homophobia isn't even a clincal condition. What am I supposed to be afraid of man..
No! You're just secretly.....afraid of your own desires...
Because I'm opposed? But I also hate roaches, stepping in dog crap, and 5'oclock traffic that doesn't mean I like any of those things..
You got that off of FRC didn't you? Here's my correlated statistics, filtered through my denial, written in the language of probability that justifies my begging the question, cause science will eventually answer the question.
But correlation doesn't equal causation....
That's just ignorant. I'm through talking to you....
What compelling interest does the UK have in same sex marriage again?
Keep trying to convince yourself. You've got your whole life to lie about it, nobody cares.
Professional mental health associations state that homosexuality is normal.
Mental health is subjective as displayed by the sexually disoriented.
Greg try working with schizophrenics for 20 years and then tell me mental health is subjective.
Crisco sales are soaring in Britain!
@Ez....@21...John Lennon?...Aloof?...Must have been a spelling error....Goof is more accurate....