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Alonso Castillo / Reuters, file
Relatives pray beside a coffin containing the body of 16-year-old Jose Antonio Elena Rodriguez during his funeral in Nogales, Mexico, on Oct. 14. A U.S. Border Patrol agent fired at suspected drug smugglers across the border into Mexico late Oct. 10, and the teen was hit seven times, an autopsy showed.
A Mexican teenager killed when the U.S. Border Patrol opened fire on a group of rock throwers in Mexico last year was shot at least seven times from behind, an autopsy by Mexican authorities showed.
Jose Antonio Elena Rodriguez, 16, was shot as agents fired into Nogales, Mexico, after responding to reports of drug trafficking on Oct 10.
An attorney for the Elena Rodriguez family, Luis F. Parra, released a copy of the Mexican medical examiner's report on Thursday.
The autopsy was conducted several hours after the shooting. It found that the teen had been struck in the head, neck and body by at least seven bullets fired from behind him. It described several other bullet injuries, some of which may have been exit wounds.
Following the shooting, Mexican authorities condemned the U.S. Border Patrol's use of lethal force and called for a timely and transparent investigation.
In a written statement, the Border Patrol said the incident began shortly before midnight on October 10 when agents responded to reports of two suspected smugglers, who they watched drop drugs on the Arizona side of the border.
The smugglers then fled back across the border into Mexico and "began assaulting the agents with rocks." An unnamed agent opened fire after the suspects refused orders to stop, the patrol said.
News pictures taken shortly after the October shooting showed Elena Rodriguez' apparently lifeless body face down on the sidewalk a few yards south of the border fence, which consists of parallel steel barriers.
Alonso Castillo / Reuters, file
A cross is seen at the U.S.-Mexico border near the site where Jose Antonio Elena Rodriguez was found dead.
The FBI has been leading the investigation into the shooting. A spokesman for the agency's Phoenix division declined on Thursday to comment on the autopsy or the continuing investigation.
Parra did not immediately respond to a request on Thursday for comment on the autopsy's findings.
Elena Rodriguez was the second Mexican teenager killed in a clash with the Border Patrol in the Mexican border city in less than two years. In January 2011, an agent fired into Mexico, killing 17-year-old Ramses Barron of Nogales.
The Elena Rodriguez shooting came more than a week after a Border Patrol agent was shot dead near the border in an apparent friendly fire incident.
Arizona is on a major route for Mexican smuggling networks hauling drugs and illegal immigrants to the United States, and running guns and cash profits back south to Mexico.
Related:
Border Patrol shoots Mexican man from across border
Arizona ranchers demand security at the border
Sources: Friendly Fire killed Border Patrol agent
Copyright 2013 Thomson Reuters. Click for restrictions.
Leave a Comment:
What was a 16 year old kid doing hanging out on the border at midnight.
Why was he shot seven times? Did the gun jam?
dont bring rocks to a gun fight? sticks and stones!
If he would have stayed in Mexico and not attempted the smuggle drugs into the U.S., he would be alive today. Someone has to protect our borders and it is obvious this is another area where our President is a total failure. Most legal U.S. Citizens do not want the illegals in our country and will protect our borders if our leaders will not. This was a 16 year old drug smuggler who entered our country illegally. He attempted to flee and failed to follow the instructions of the Border Patrols and attacked them. This was a "legal shoot". It's very simple, if they don't want to be shot they should not attempt to cross our borders illegally.
What do you mean "hanging out" he was smuggling drugs. Just watch shows like border wars. They have video of them dropping the drugs and when they catch them they try to play the "I am a poor mexican trying to feed my family" card. His buddies probably would have shot the border patrol if they got the chance.
If pot were legal in the US he would be alive today.
Yeah, because if they were armed they would be throwing rocks as.s hat. If we can't shoot stone throwers in Iraq and Afghanistan there is no reason a BP should have those rules of engagement.
Do you honestly believe that Pot is the only drug smuggled in from Mexico?
Get real.
Shoot more of them.
Good point.
Mr. Obama... please build us a WALL!
"What was a 16 year old kid doing hanging out on the boarder at midnight?" He was smuggling drugs....read the article.
Poor little rock chucking drug smuggler got killed. I won't shed a tear...
So a rock throwing drug smuggler was shot? meh
My guess is the Mexicans did it.
Cheetah- that's the funniest post ever!
I wonder how these idiots who are spewing RACIST foolishness, would feel if this were their child? Please don't give me that "my child wouldn't" crap, because NO ONE KNOWS when it's going to be them and their loved ones! Just because he's a brown person his life wasn't ish, right? You all should be ashamed of yourselves, this is barbaric behavior, but you call yourself civilized. SMDH!!!I don't trust the BP and I never will, they killed one of their own and tried to lie about it, do you really think they are telling the truth now? Prayers for this young (HUMAN) man and his family:-(
JB,
I would say that the death of the alleged smuggler is proof that the president is indeed protecting the border. Don't you think?
Anyway, at least the victim was not a 6 year old shot 11 times with an assault rifle. BTW, what is left of a 40 lbs 6-year old after 11 bullets?
We build them factories and they still come over here and who suffers for it..Can you imagine a life where corporate greed couldn't take advantage of cheap labor, an even playing field..Paradise
SMB--police don't get to shoot drug smugglers or drug dealers on sight. Not in the US, and not in Mexico. It is not an executable offense, here.
Further, we have only the word of the Border Patrol, which is not likely to tell the truth in this case, that there were any drugs. For all we know, these were just a bunch of kids, throwing rocks and insults--and, yes, kids who don't go to school run around getting into mischief after midnight. You also don't get to execute people for throwing rocks across a border--you just back up, and everything is fine, because there is a fence.
The Border Patrol has no authority in Mexico--if Mexican officials shot across the border at US citizens who were drunk and rude and perhaps throwing rocks because they didn't like what the officials had said to them--there would be a heck of an outcry. The Mexican officials don't get to execute people for being rude, either.
The young man was running away--kind of hard to throw rocks when you are running like that. The Border Patrol does not have the authority to fire across the border at Mexican nationals--that is, by the by, an act of war.
You really don't have a grip, do you? Mexicans also have a border there, and they also have a right to guard it from the US Border Patrol. The person who shot across the border committed a crime in Mexico. He had no authority in Mexico and was the equivalent of a civilian. Mexican authorities have the right to extradite him. He should be tried, convicted, and quite likely sentenced to execution there. He won't be executed, because the US will intervene--but it is terribly amusing when people in the US think it is fine to shoot people like coyotes simply because they are not US citizens.
As someone has already pointed out, we can't shoot people in Iraq and Afghanistan (or outside a US Embassy) when they are throwing rocks or even if they have committed crimes in US-controlled areas and then run back to their own country. Those are the rules. Funny how you don't think they apply to your countrymen, though you are quite keen to insist that everyone else follows yours.
All that i have to say is GOOD. Stay out of America
@joeb and smb and the rest of you idiots who can't read!!! No where in the article does it say that this kid was a drug smuggler!!! Read it again! No where does it say that this kid even entered the U.S. What are we doing shooting at kids (or anyone for that matter) accross a national border at a little before midnight. Is that area that well lit that you can see who is who -- think not. Then to shoot someone in the back -- many of you would call that cowardly on most other counts. Please A**HOLES read and re-read the article before you start making ignorant statements based only on your prejudiced low-life way of thinking. READ IT AGAIN!!!
One guy said "what if that were your child" crap. If it were my child smuggling drugs accross a border and got his ass shot, I would not claim the body. I would not bury him. Let the state bury his sorry ass. My children knew as they grew up that my love was unconditional..... up to a point. If you commit a crime, you do the time, all of it. If you do drugs, may your first time be an overdose and you die. I would rather have you dead than a street hooking strung out junkie. I would not tolerate it and they knew that. Maybe that is what helped keep them straight. Sometimes love is more powerful than temptation. Maybe my wife would forgive them but don't ask me to make a decision that they will go against them.
I see the hateful white folks are on a roll here.
I wonder how you'll feel about the two Hispanic women delivering newspapers at 0530 yesterday morning who were shot by LAPD, one, TWICE in the BACK, because their vehicle LOOKED like Christopher Jordan Dorner's vehicle. I bet that was ok too.
it is very hard to be sympathetic in this situation....
If I didn't know any better I'd say this story was written by Palestinians or their sympathizers. Just substitute Israel for US and Palestinian for Mexico.
May have been exit wounds? WTF? Can't these Mexican coroners figure out what type of wounds they are? No mention of caliber either. Yeah, this kid was shot by the drug cartels to make it look like the border patrol did it. The Palestinians do it all the time.
Tom,
my love was unconditional..... up to a point.
Then your love is not unconditional, it's very conditional. You contradict yourself horribly. I am glad that your children haven't lead a disparaging life, I am just sorry for them if one ever falls by the wayside during a hard time of life. I hope that if that time ever occurs, you will re-think your position on it and try to help them through it rather than discard them as you so blatantly state. I think (hope) that your heart will tell you differently IF the need ever arises, but I hope the need never does.
Mosh, I don't see any identifiers in these posts pointing to white folks. And you reference to what happened in LA, just typical, out of control cops doing their thing and being "heros"
I lived in El Paso. When we were in our youth, we would walk along the Rio. We would see Mexicans wanting to cross. They would throw rocks at us, why? who knows. They would then run as soon as the BP would show up. The drug dealers use these young kids because they know they have this mentality that their bad. Well guess what kids, mess with the bull...
One thing for sure is he won't need a freakin green card.
stop buying drugs.and all the problems will stop.or legalize them and put the border patrol out of work
@DickCranium.....your first name suits you well. A dick
Notice this is the reported findings from Mexican authorities, yeah, there ya go.
This has cartel written all over it.
Good shootin', Tex!
very good creakdog.........guess others cant read very well.......next time use the 30 round clip
The Mexicans refused to allow the FBI anywhere near the body until well after they were finished with it.
And we trust what they say because.....?????
This is just a liberal media attempt to blow something else out of proportion. The kid, teen whoever...anyone asking where his parents were? Why are they not to blame here? Why was the teen not to blame here? Surely they can see the big arse border fence that says it's ILLEGAL to cross. Surely the kid was warned by some local that there are border guards with guns for a reason.
I don't feel sorry at all for this kid or his family. It's like a teen being shot at a house full of mafia members. The point is, you're doing something illegal, and you run the chance, however small, of facing off with those who are professional border agents, trained to shoot drug runners with guns, drug lords etc, I don't think they have time to be like, "Um, could you tell us how old you are before you continue to do something that endangers us so we know whether or not your a teen?"
I blame the parents/grandparents of the teen and the teen himself.... NOBODY else.
@mosholu - There is a different between running things illegally across the border and being shot for it, while not being a citizen in the first place, and two citizens (no matter their ethnicity) being shot in a city of the U.S.A.
Furthermore if anyone comes off racist...you do in your post at 1.20.
Lastly, this has absolutely nothing to do with whatever you're talking about. Please stay on topic. You drag crap up that has to do with NOTHING of this incident.
@mosholu - There is a different between running things illegally across the border and being shot for it, while not being a citizen in the first place, and two citizens (no matter their ethnicity) being shot in a city of the U.S.A.
Furthermore if anyone comes off racist...you do in your post at 1.20.
Lastly, this has absolutely nothing to do with whatever you're talking about. Please stay on topic. You drag crap up that has to do with NOTHING of this incident.
P.S. >>> psssst..... you told me a couple months ago you were a palestinian now you have a "veteran for obama" as your profile pic.... lol.
Hey Xavier. Stop selling so there won't be anything to buy. There are a lot more reason for border patrol. Did you know that Mexicans keep coming across our borders illegally?? Believe it or not, some have no way of making a living, some are bad and none of them should come across when not officially invited. Border patrol is needed to keep their butts in their own country. 11 million have gotten through.
While I can agree their was likely excessive force the fact is they were committing a crime then assaulted the BP, so I can't feel to bad about this. Had they not been committing this crime this kid would be alive today. Sad yes, preventable yes, sole fault of the US BP, no. Like I said sad this happened and likely excessive force but same time don't do the crime if you can't handle the consequences. And yes if our troops were able to be a little more aggressive in hostile situations and respond with force maybe their wouldn't be such a quagmire that we are in now. Yeah you have to play by certain rules and know when to control yourself, very fine line, but it is also war, not there to play patty cake and if our troops where allowed to do their job it would've been finished years ago, but for many reasons we aren't. Anyways I digress, the bottomline is we have major immigration issues and border security issues and it is time we fix them now and stop ignoring the problem. It is the very fact that they know as long as they cross the border they are scott free. Knowing that lethal force can and will be used is a good deterrent. Besides where is Mexico's border patrol? Do they even have one?? Honestly the whole border should consist of a large no man's land on either side with agents from both sides having jurisdiction and authority to pursue into the other side's no mans land, including use of lethal force as deemed necessary. Not a licsense to kill but if crimes are being committed then your chances of a target on your back go way up.
It is time
I think a few more of these would act as an adequate deterent to all illegals. Hell, put up a secondary fence 20 yards from the border and mine in between the two fences. Post signs in english only (this would help them learn the language), warning of the consequences of crossing. Trespassers would be vulture food. Until we get tough on these lawless immigrants, they'll keep coming.
I look at the majority of comments here (and agree with them), and yet, I cant help but draw parallels to the Arab/Israeli conflict.
"Obama, build us a wall " vs. OMG ! Those bad Israelis building a WALL !
"Stone throwers can KILL- the BP did right !" vs. "Those BAD Israelis responding with bullets when those poor young palestinians are ONLY using stones".
@Creek Dog -- for the most part I always enjoy your thoughtful posts, but one of at least a couple of important words in the article were "GROUP" and "two SUSPECTED smugglers", i.e.: "A mexican teenager killed when the U.S. Border Patrol opened fire on a GROUP of rock throwers IN MEXICO last year was shot at least seven times from behind." and "two SUSPECTED smugglers". Folks in Mexico are always throwing rocks accross the border into the U.S. at the border patrol agents and the fact that this kid was a SUSPECT doesn't warrant killing him. My point is that in my reading of the article I saw the word "group" as more than two rock throwers and this didn't necessarily implicate the 16 year old kid who like many kids of that age are in a GROUP, either up-to-no-good or attending an evening youth group at the local church. All the facts are not in, but I'm sure the offending agent has been working on a lot of CYA work along with the agency. Maybe he just had a bad day and decided that rock throwing from a foreign country was a fate punishable by death...just saying.
@palz:
This happened a year ago, but when it happened, the story released by the Mexican government, in one single paragraph on MSNBC, had four different versions of what happened in a six sentence paragraph. They couldn't decide for themselves which one to spin.
And I'm talking about the Mexican authorities.... MSNBC had the paragraph in quotes.
This is unfortunate, but the Border Control did not initiate this. Equivalent coverage should be afforded to the thousands of Americans who are murdered by ILLEGALS in our country every year (like multiple Border Control Agents and Rancher Robert Krentz who was murdered on his own land by an ILLEGAL).
palz,
There was no pun intended. I just wasn't sure where you were coming from with your post when I read what I pasted. It could go either way. What you say above does make sense though.
Have a good weekend...
The Mexican authorities that are demanding a transparent investigation are being paid to care by the cartel the kid was smuggling for.
So let me get this straight, this same thing happened a few years ago and they didn't learn NOT to throw rocks at the patrol???
Who cares ! This is what's supposed to happen at a border. If you want to cross a border you go to the border check point. Crossing the border at any other point is a crime. I'd like to see more guns at the border and we need a no-mans land with mines. If we got serious about border security we'd have a lot less problems. This kid decided to join a criminal drug smuggling gang and was dumb enough to throw rocks at armed border agents. He was double dumb and got what every illegal border crossing criminal deserves. If we fortified our border the way it should be these criminals would know better. Good fences make Good neighbors ! And a mine field makes bad neighbors into excellent neighbors.
The Mexican drug cartels have been working hand-in-hand with Islamist terrorists for some time now.
It's not surprising that the cartels would adopt the same tactics.
as long as he's dead......
This is not the whole story. The Mexican government has too many dogs in this fight to accept the story on face value, too many unknowns.
@palz
They are the suspected smugglers because of our legal system. If 1000 people witnessed a person shoot someone in the middle of the street, the media would report that the alledged shooter, or the suspected shooter...
Our great legal system would allow the criminal to sue for slander, defamation of character, etc.. It kills me when they call the suspect, who is clearly guilty, the alledged offender...
the mexican government should patrol their own people, instead of the burden and blame to america. just like many corrupted government of the globe, the inability to take care of their poor. the poor mexicans crossing to USA for economics, either work or welfare. there are more poor mexicans who should just revolt against their government, dissolve the sovereign mexico and be one of the states or be a territory of the USA, problem solved.
Who cares, he shouldn't have been involved in drug smuggling. If he had been home in bed, he would still be alive.
Shot 7 times?
See, this is a perfect example of why we need high-capacity magazines. If that agent had a 30-round clip sh!t would've gotten serious.
Shoot more of them, please...
So you unload your automatic weapons at rock throwing individuals. Where is the restraint? Some of you folks are probably to young to remember Kent State. How about Mi Lai then or Abu Grahbi?
Just more proof that the war on drugs, started in the Nixon administration is a failure...
A simple waste of life...
MSNBC
can you please print how many AMERICAN citizens have been killed by illegal immigrants in the last 5 years??? PLEASE
People mistakenly think that the laws at the Border are the same as everywhere else. They are not the same. If you're arrested at the border you get no phone call, no lawyer, no Miranda. The border is a international border and is legally a militarized zone.
So, basically, the media is expecting us to take the word of a corrupt government that is known to supply the cartels with weapons from their own military. A government that has a definite anti-American agenda and assists in the killing of tens of thousands of it's own citizens for the profit of a few soulless leaders. Is that who's word we are being expected to believe?
"there are more poor mexicans who should just revolt against their government, dissolve the sovereign mexico and be one of the states or be a territory of the USA, problem solved."
Good point! Maybe if we wouldn't have negotiated the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo and instead kept Mexico as ours, we wouldn't have these problems.
It's ok to kill a 16 yr old rock thrower, across an international border, BUT, the out rage expressed by the very same when an American turned terrorist is killed in a drone attack. Kid throwing rocks, kill the bastard....Terrorist plotting the death of thousands, such an evil Pres. we have that would order his death. See anything wrong here? At least be consistent. ( On a note, If drug smuggler was an American, you'd still lust for his death. So the kid being Mexican, and Terrorist being an American does not divide the issue or the blood lust.)
Da Pup
browneyedgirl43,
Way to be racist about it browneyedgirl. No one said that they were justified in killing a Mexican. Just a drug smuggler who was throwing rocks at them. Way to leave out what he did wrong to paint him as the victim. Typical left bs.
I'd have to ask MSNBC. Why now? What's the agenda this time?
Yes, browneyedgirl43 and all other bleeding hearts out there -
Before you start crying about a "Child", just think about the danger that any 16 year old with big rocks can do. A big enough rock is a lethal weapon. Should the border patrol just crawl under a desk or use a pair of scissors? Maybe they should read this boy a nursery rhyme? Give him a teddy bear?
The sickening part is that if you, browneyegirl43, caught this little miscreant stealing your car or breaking into your house, it wouldn't bother them a bit to break your neck. If he had no difficulty facing an armed border patrol, what do you think he'd have done to your silly little self? Hopefully, you are only in charge of keeping your self safe, and not others.
Yes, let's take the rest of Mexico. After all it is "Manifest Destiny".
So. What's your point? Maybe he should have been home and not with the drug smuggling crowd. Age does not matter. There is a war there. If American corporations weren't making such big bucks on fighting the smugglers, marijuana would be legalized. With the money US could make we could pay off the national debt.
So a kid gets shot being with the wrong people at the wrong time, no sympathy here. He's old enough to fire a gun and if he had had one he would have been shooting back.
And Hillary said:
This happened four months ago!
What difference does it make????
Well, that really took a big bite out of Crime, now didn't it? Do these Border Patrol Agents think themselves to be some kind of glorified American Snipers and Heroes, or something? Besides, isn't the news now out that only the President can do these kinds of things when he feels like it? Maybe these Border Agents should be brought in and waterboarded into confessing to obstructing the US Government. (by improperly carrying out the Killer-in-Chief's job)
I just don't believe the Mexico's account of the shooting.
taking into account its almost midnight without good lights to see the rocks and on top of that rocks can cause serious injuries and on top of that its assaulting an agent and on top of that it was drug smugglers and on top of that they were warned and ordered i would be less harsh on the agent for his/her actions. I still think it was excessive force and they should have just shot at his feet. The death could have been avoided. I would have ordered them to stop 2 times then clicked it over to fullauto and and cleared off a mag near their feet. I think they would have got the point.
Mystery. Ever had people throw rocks at you? Ever think that rocks might turn into gun fire? Border needs to be fenced up period. But the prez thinks it's not necessary.
Live in your fantasy land, the border patrol agents made a report on it. Whey would they say they shot him, if they didn't?
This proves that throwing stones is a dangerous thing to do.
SMH And here I thought the Mexican drug lords invading our border were the bad guys. Guess it depends which side of the fence you're on. Keep up the good work US Border Patrol. Knowing you don't get much help from your own government.
For those of you commenting, saying that the kid was shot by cartels and made it look like the border patrol that did it, you need to go back to the original news release from October.
http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/10/11/14374642-border-patrol-shoots-mexican-man-from-across-border?lite
Drugs or not firing a gun into another country is an act of war. It would be the same if it was in reverse.
It the situation was being monitored by the BP or the DEA then they knew the drugs where there...the drugs where not going to get into the hands of anyone in the US.
Shooting at someone that is throwing rock...really? back up if you don't want to get hit by a rock. Shooting at someone...big no no.
I live near a border, shooting someone is nuts when they are of no real threat to your life by throwing a damn rock....get real BP you guys are arrogant even treating US citizens like @!$%#.
@ 1.5 brokencitizen aka 'deadhead' above: feel free to move to Mexico and smoke in peace. If you actually REVOKE your US citizenship first, I'll buy you a bus ticket (3rd world class).
You people actually BELIEVE this story? What, watch and believe to many hollywood flicks? We are to believe that this young man was ON HIS FEET the entire time that seven (7) large calibre rounds punched through his torso? In real life (not hollywood) those that have served their country, and been unfortunate enough to have to do so, know that the FIRST round bowels them off their feet. Absolute B.S. (!!!!) to say that either running, or walking, or standing still, he managed to stay on his feet and accept seven (7) rounds? BS. If there ARE seven entry wounds on him, at least six of them will be found by competent medical examiners to have been inflicted from 2', and STRAIGHT down, at that... hence the powder residue imbedded in the kids back. So let me see... there's a man with a gun 40 feet over there... and I'm going to be stupid enough to throw rocks at them?! Not!
When you play with fire you get burned. No loss here and who says that the account of the situation is correct? The bullets were from American BP or have they Mexican cartel written all over them?
Either way, who knows and based on experience, there are too many lies and fingerpointing at American law officers.
Stay away from the fence, arssholes.
I see the hateful white folks are on a roll here.
You are one astoundingly stupid son-of-a-bitch if you believe "I" told you I was Palestinian.
I've mentioned on this board a number of times I am black. Do you consider Palestinians black also?
Stand your ground. Shoot!
@Palz
Your the idiot who can't read.
In a written statement, the Border Patrol said the incident began shortly before midnight on October 10 when agents responded to reports of two suspected smugglers, who they watched drop drugs on the Arizona side of the border.
The smugglers then fled back across the border into Mexico and "began assaulting the agents with rocks." An unnamed agent opened fire after the suspects refused orders to stop, the patrol said.
To those of you that say that smuggling drugs is not a reason for shooting someone down, I think you need to read the article again. From what I read, he was shot for throwing rocks at our patrolmen. I mean, that person may be a father, husband or son to someone else. What if he gets struck in the head with one of those rocks and dies? Then what? Does the kid say "I did it"? Do we condemn (whatever that means) what could have happened?
Frankly, I am all for violence as a last resort. But at the same time, I have no idea what life is like in the Mexican border. Moreover, wasn't a member of OUR border killed? These people put their lives on the line for us, day in and day out. He has the right to protect himself with whatever means he deems necessary. As bad as that sounds, that kid should have been doing what 16 year old kids do, instead of running drugs to our country.
Well, since illegal immigrants have killed well over 50,000 Americans, I don't think they should be complaining about anything.
@moshuluu : Again, your racist comment at 1.20 stands for itself. Your attempt to defend your own words is laughable, reinstating your racism in your last post served you no useful purpose. So you've said on this board a number of times that your black. So what? You want a reward or something? Don't make this into something it is not. You do that all the time, it's so immature. How do you know that everyone posting before you was white? With your, "I see the racist white people are on a roll here" or whatever you said, not worth scrolling up to look at again lol.
Tool.
What useful statement or opinion have you offered about this article?
Steve, that is really a stupid thing to say. Ever been in a situation like that? What is the BP suppose to do, throw rocks back? And I have lived at the border. Any American is in danger.
How does mushmouth in post #1.81 get away with calling anyone a son-of-a-_____?
And, as far as "Hateful", mushmouth, referring to anyone as "White" or "Black" is as racist as it gets. Actually, I am "Peach", as my son told me. Look in the mirror for racist.
@arslp - He's just trying to turn this into something it is not. A racist rant by a racist himself. Notice he has offered nothing about the article itself, in neither of his two posts. Posing as a veteran because he thinks it gains him leverage, on palestinian articles he claims he's a palestinian, all the while blasting everyone but himself as a racist.
@moshuluubag - You're a complete tool.
Clearly most of these comments are by young people that consider their lives sacred, and the lives of any 'others', utterly expendable. They will live in a world they created and deserve - they just don't know it - yet.
ship:
"No loss here.."? Other than walking upright............we've seen the zombies, and they are us. Do you have a 16 year-old?
@ Moshuluu
Pound sand.
Like most chip wearers...you probably see "hateful" white folks no matter where you go.
I don't think it was drugs as they are illegal and once illegal everything is ok. Just ask Obama and Feinstien.
Gabriel-1934044
Duh let me guess rock Vs. Gun
Move back if you don't want to get hit with a rock. There is a buffer zone between in the area it's called NO MANS LAND.
What the hell...A gun bullet travels a lot further distance than a damn rock.
Give me a break...This is an unjustifiable killing and nothing more.
Ugh !!! The cartel kills their own and anybody in their way , but this incident makes the mexican government investigate. Really , what about all the beheaded bodies in ditches , roads , etc. Be smart , the border is not to be crossed illegally. So stay the hell home or become a number in the statistics. Also , for you Moshustupid , keep race out of it. Its sickening to always hear about race. Theres an old saying , it takes one to know one. Look in the mirror and admit it.
metalmisery
The big huge difference is the shots came from the US side of our border into Mexico another country .
If this happened in North Vs. South Korea if would be all out war, as it is an act of war to shoot & kill civilian's et al, across international borders.
It is against the Geneva convention & our own laws. It doesn't matter what they where doing(throwing drugs & rocks). If they had guns and where firing into the US that is a whole other situation. Which is not in the facts here.
Hiding behind the old I felt my life was in danger (casue they where throwing rocks) doesn't pass the smell test with me.
metalmisery
The big huge difference is the shots came from the US side of our border into Mexico another country .
If this happened in North Vs. South Korea if would be all out war, as it is an act of war to shoot & kill civilian's et al, across international borders.
It is against the Geneva convention & our own laws. It doesn't matter what they where doing(throwing drugs & rocks). If they had guns and where firing into the US that is a whole other situation. Which is not in the facts here.
Hiding behind the old I felt my life was in danger (casue they where throwing rocks) doesn't pass the smell test with me.
I am in agreement with the commenters that are questioning how this 16 year old, part of a group,was shot in the back. They claim that there were 2 drug smugglers, and 2 vs a group are distinctly different. How is rock throwing justification for lethal force? Or to be shot in the back 7 times? Can't they shoot rubber bullets to disperse them? I also need to question the perception that we are firing upon a sovereign country with lethal force, and what legal justification we have for doing that. I am not a proponent of either drug smuggling or illegal immigration, but feel that it is up to us to make laws ,make ourselves safe and to insure we do those things legally and not react inappropiately! We can do that by actually taking this situation seriously, and making laws and punishments tougher, that are strictly enforced! One example is making it a felony, instead of a misdemeanor to immigrant here illegally! Yes, they are breaking the law, but instead we reward illegal immigrants with possible amnesty, as they break our laws, as our laws are secondary to their needs! I would have to say that we do need to figure out how to keep our borders safer, which is a tough job as our borders are our entire perimeter including coastlines! As far as people quetioning msn, as to why are they writing about this now, is that it says that the lawyer for the family released this info on Thursday, which would bring this back into the news! You would have to question his motive and my guess is that it is the beginning of a lawsuit!
Let's have a all out war with mexico! enough said! And steve you can join them, you don't deserve to wear the hat that sits on your head, at least in your gay photo.
john doe:
Why not run a story about the holocaust of the Western Hemisphere? Why not run a story about dropping weapons of mass destruction on the civilian population of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Or the carpet bombings of Dresden, and other European civilian population centers. Objectivity seems to be an impossible undertaking for many in this country.
@ Steve I was stationed in Korea and there have been shots fired, Do you remember that N. Korea bombed those islands and the capture of the "Pueblo" and we have no war!
tom:
"Your"(sic) the idiot that can't read? That's a beauty.
Vince Burns
Please review policy and guidelines for posting on Newsvine.
Personal attacks are prohibited. You may be suspended for a day. If it continues your IP will be blocked from posting.
BTW I am gay...What does that have to do with the story?
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Although my heart goes out to his family for their loss, I feel no shame or pity for this young man.
He is a smuggler of drugs or weed and he snuck into this country illegally hence he knew the risks and the US Border Patrol did what are they are supposed to do when an illegal is caught and told to stop. Yet he didn't stop so was shot.
To all illegals know that the same may happen to you when you are caught trying to illegally cross a border for personal purposes or for delviery of drugs or weed.
sillyshrinks
He was told to stop, so they shot him in the back 7 times in his own country, not in the US...How does that make any sense?
Regardless of his actions it would still be "due process" if he where in the US, catch him arrest him and bring charges. There was no need to use deadly force.
Because they have never and will never dig under a new wall like they have the old walled sections. They would never use boats (pangas) either I guess. Or "five o'clock charlie" bales of drugs over it in a ultra light like they have.
Hey I think everybody has this all wrong. The Mexican kids were trying to get their laundry to a laundry mat here in the U.S. and saw a couple border agents. The agents asked the kids to throw a couple of rocks in the air so they could do a little skeet shooting. When the rock came down it fell right in front of the 16 year old kid. Of course the kid will be hit. He was standing in front of that rock when it was falling. Dam it is a shame more Mexican kids don't do laundry and play skeet.
garbageman-2736857
Yes and anytime there are civilian casualties the US has had to answer for that. You don't have US personnel shooting at civilians across borders from our country to another. We have International laws & Treaties, as well as laws within the US that prohibit that, unless it is for fear of life or limb. Throwing rocks do not fall under those categories.
Some of you are the same ones that have bitched about the drone that killed an American known to be a terrorist and have defended the hell out of his rights...But here we have a killing of someone else of a different nationality and you act as thou it is noting...It's justified....WOW. Human rights, are still human rights.
Do you all really think Mexico is to blame for the drug trafficking? Do you not understand supply and demand? We own this, totally.
And you have to be rather trigger happy to shoot a kid 7-10 times in the BACK for throwing rocks at you. Try throwing rocks at something behind you. You won't be much of a threat I promise.
The biggest problem is that the Border Patrol doesn't shoot enough of these illegals., Any illegal whether they are smuggling or just invading, are a threat to AMERICAN intrests. Shoot enough of them as they violate our laws and they will think twice about Sneaking into our Country, taking jobs, abusing medical care, and sucking off the social system.
All you fools saying throwing rocks isnt worthy of being shot, i DARE YOU to go out and start throwing rocks at your local cops. Idiots!
Wow, all of you who support the killing of this kid, for what? A 16-year-old being a 16-year-old? It's because he's Mexican isn't it? He has less value than you because you are an American? What did you do to become an American? You think because you were fortunate enough to be born here that makes you superior to others? Or is it your Christian sensibilities that say "He should have known better, I don't feel a bit for him"? You do realize he was/is a child of God too don't you? So WWJD? And I guarantee it would not be to shoot a 16-year-old, or to celebrate his death, or to dismiss him as less than you.
You people that have no sense of humanity are what is wrong with this world. Kill, kill, kill, that's all you think about. Someone stole something? Kill them!, Someone was jay walking and got hit and killed? They deserve it, they should have known better!
Inhuman, evil morons!
@Steven You make a statement to me and then make this statement,"Some of you are the same ones that have bitched about the drone that killed an American known to be a terrorist and have defended the hell out of his rights... " Read my comment on here 1.98, and explain, How does this apply to any of the statements I have made? You made a statement that was wrong and you appear to get defensive in me proving the validity of that statement, next time make comments 1.96 that are clear, concise and mean what you want to say and we wouldn't have an unnecessary discourse! Your statement talks of civilians being killed, and they were in the attack on the Yeonpyeong Islands, and that would result in war. and it didn't, use appropriate examples to validate tour points!
"What the hell...A gun bullet travels a lot further distance than a damn rock."
I'm sorry . . . is there another type of bullet?
@Spokane, Well said! Except I would, have used the words, inhuman, evil moronic "behavior"though,to prevent being labeled as inflammatory......
@steve - the cowboy hat wearing idiot - Umm...of course the bullets came from the U.S. side of the border, guess what else, the illegal, teen came from the mexican side of the border, that means that he knew about that no man's land you were talking about and the fence...how many NO Trespassing sings did he ignore? How many times did he ignore the warnings? What's your point? You sound like a big cry baby. Complaining at one corner about people calling you names and then trying to dish them out like a second grader. Grow up. Who is the moron throwing rocks at people with guns? What kind of genius does it take to figure out who is going to win this fight?
You trying to defend this sap... you're trying to sound like you know exactly what happened as if you were there the whole time. Maybe you are unaware of the cartels sending people over with litertally tons of drugs that suck the lives away from how many thousands of people, and you're complaining about one teen? Suck it up you big wanna be cowboy flamer. Maybe you skipped the news recently about LEGAL AMERCICAN CITIZENS being shot, robbed, and property trespassed on by illegal immirgants and drug cartels from mexico...perhaps you just don't care.
The point is, the teen was doing something illegal. The point is that he probably knew it was illegal...I mean, you yourself emphasized the no man's land and the fence... even if drug runners/illegal immigrants run a 1 percent chance of getting shot... they take that chance. It's nobody's fault but the teen's, his parents/grandparents/guardians, and the drug cartel he was working for. Illegal acts run the chance of having dire consequences. What do you want the border patrol agents to say something like, "hey, wait, stop running, I need to see your i.d. before you run from us or smuggle more drugs into our country or point that thing that looks like a gun at us, before we shoot you."
He got what he deserved, as harsh as that is. Do you have kids? If so, do you discourage them from illegal activities? Why is that? ..........HELLLOOOO!
@THEO - Dead people pose the least amount of threat out of anyone.
Walls, fences work.
@astouding, how was he illegal he was in his own country!!!That word shows all your bias! There is nothing that says he was one of the 2 smugglers, just part of a group throwing rocks,which you consider illegal as do I. That is no reason for lethal force to be used across a border, which I would point out probably is illegal!
astounding
"@THEO - Dead people pose the least amount of threat out of anyone."
Just brilliant.
"The man was hit 10 times from behind, a doctor in the area told Telemundo. Municipal and state investigative police also said the man was shot several times. They said they found the man, in his mid-20s or early 30s, lying on his stomach."
Funny, you call that proof, yet this article states he was hit seven times and was 16. The BP agents said he appeared to have been hit. Seven times would make it more than just "appeared". I realize that you have your mind made up, but I think I'll wait for all the facts before I condemn the officers.
John Doe 111186 banned, rereg of Obama Biden & Hillary Are Scum.
There is no rational excuse for the murder of this teenager by well armed federal agents. These agents must be charged and tried in a court of law for the murder of an unarmed teen and not tossed to the side as if this is a casualty such as in Israel and Palestine. We have turned our backs on events like this too many times. It is the law of the land you can only meet force with equal force and not deadly force. The Border Patrol must be comprised of cowardly children to shoot a teen in the back seven times and who knows how many rounds were fired by these cowardly agents. These Border Patrol agents should be immediately dismissed from federal service and stand trial for murder in Mexico since the event happened on Mexican soil. There is no call nor reason to this murder.
Until we have an autopsy preformed by an American Medical Examiner I withhold judgement. Lets just hope Mr Intellect that you someday are the recipient of rocks being lobbed at you from multiple assailants. Of course that would never happen would it? As you post like one living in Mexho
What happen to freedom of speech tyler?
Agreed, Gabriel:
TYLER:
This was one person's opinion. They are public figures.
I guess "absolute power" DOES "corrupt absolutely".
Newsvine is not your personal playground. You, as a seeder or mediator, have an OBLIGATION to ALL the people on here.
I HIGHLY doubt that you'd have reacted the same way had he called BUSH "scum".
If Mexico is so concerned then perhaps they should be placing agents on their side of the border to help stop illegal activity and keep pesky 16 year olds away. If they want to leave it up to our patrols then they have to live with the consequences.
What would the reaction be if an official from Mexico fired across the border and killed an American. War?
With one of Hussein's and Holder's "Fast and Furious" assault weapons that they gave to the Mexican Drug Cartel. Hmmmmm.......
The Border Patrol is doing their job, plain and simple. Sure, now the parents cry; sorry for their loss. In all cases, think of the consequences of your actions, or non-actions.
Mexico has fired into the United states on several occasions and no war yet.
it would be ooops thats just another bump in the road.
The parents are mourning because their drug smuggling kid won't be contributing to the family income anymore.
If the US citizen was smuggling drugs to mexico, and then chucking rocks...there would be nothing wrong with it.
Only racists see race in everything...
I cannot recall the last time an American was climbing fences and walls to get into Mexico with drugs. I must have missed those stories.
If it were an American smuggling drugs, my reaction would be the same. Next!
Mexicans come across the border and kill Americans quite frequently.
Since when is smuggling drugs a capital offense? The BP was completely wrong is this instance. You don't kill someone for smuggling or throwing rocks. You'd have to be a complete idiot to support the BP actions in this case.
Maybe not climbing the fences with drugs, but instead driving over the boarder with shotguns.
Try throwing rocks at a cop and let us know how things go. If you're lucky enough to survive, that is.
I'm pretty sure he would get free healthcare and education.
It would be ugly. Something stinks in Denmark. I can understand this kid continuing to stand after one bullet hit him maybe since he was young and strong bullet two and three. But to still be on your feet long enough to be shot seven times. Even if the bullets couldn't take you down, natural instinct would make you hit the dirt. Unless this kid was like some of those VC that were hopped up on heroin, I never ran into one like that but they tell me you could shoot them good and they would keep coming, didn't feel the pain, no shock, didn't know they were supposed to be dead. I have my doubts about that being the case.
No, remember the US couple on a Texas/Mexican lake on a jet ski who were gunned down with automatic gun fire? We didn't send in the Marines for that "infraction". Nor for the border patrol agents (plural) which were killed in Arizona last year (One of them was the Phoenix area, 200 miles from the border). US citizens tend to overlook harm their citizens recieve; but a few bleeding hearts "lose their minds" when drug smugglers are killed in the process of breaking multiple laws. If the boy's family is outraged, then I have a few questions.
1. If you wanted your child safe, why were you letting your kid roam the streets in a violent border town at midnight.
2. Are you so out of touch with your son, you didn't wonder about the crowd he was running with.
3. Did you not wonder, even for a moment, where your son was getting all his "drug trade" money from?
Clearly, they weren't involved in their son's life, or they openly condoned his money-making enterprise. Either way, they lose their right to whine/complain about his death during the performance of a crime.
Watch, in return we'll offer the family of the deceased hundreds of millions in compensation as well as citizenship for their entire family, free housing, cars, education at taxpayer expense though this punk kid was committing assault against armed police protecting our country. Liberalism at its finest!
SMB what does race have to do with anything here?
This is about a dead drug smuggler. No great loss.
Well he wont be assisting in smuggling sh!t anymore. Keep up the good work BP
One less criminal alien leech for us to support and worry about.
I'm all for the summary execution of all drug smugglers. You get caught smuggling drugs...POP! one behind the ear.
Watch the flow of drugs slow to a trickle.
The real problem is the institutionalized corruption of the Mexican't government.
NJK,
there have been a ton of Border patrol officers killed (113 to be exact) and more than a few US civillains killed by fire from across the border. No war yet! You people are missing one salient point here! The human perspective.
These guys aren't clones or drones they are human beings that are submersed in depravity, fear and danger day in and out! Hell they see as much or more action as the Guys at the DMZ in Korea or around Guantanamo in Cuba! They are out there day and night contending with the worst kind of people who would gladly slit their throats to get their way, but that doesn't seem to be an issue with you. "If" and it is a big "IF" this was a mistake or a so called "bad shoot" for whatever reason then I am more than willing to give these guys some latitude and for you to take the word of the Mexican officials is just flat out ludicrous!!
You know 90 percent of the reason they are out there guarding that border is because the Mexican goverment is doing little to nothing on their end! And one more thing...all of you act as if the border guards are some racist ayrians just seething with predjudiced and waiting on an opportunity to shoot a "lowly Mexican"...when in fact the large majority of them are of Spanish/ Mexican descent and were born and raised there and have family on both sides of the border!
Before you get up on your judgemental high horse you people need to go down there and take a good long look around. Not through a T.V. screen but walk that fence line and spend a night or two in a place like Nogales...then cross the border and hang out over there for a while. Then come back and offer an opinion!
Sorry NJK....the above Post was meant for "Mister ED" above you there.
I have lived and worked in Mexico a lot the last 25 years. The borders sucks no other way to put it. I would be for mining the border and I am a liberal on a lot of things but we have a right to control who enters our country. Since I work for business I can tell you now the bigget impediment we face in controlling our border is US businesses. In the 70s long before NAFTA the US searched every vehicle crossing the legal entry points and US business screamed, (called operation Condor) think what they would do now. The Mexican scream about firearms entering their country so why don't they search all cars entering Mexico and put their people on the border. If we want border security all we have to say is that we will stop all trade until they control the border and it would but US business wouldn't like that.
DM,
I know precisely what you are talking about..I've been there many times and have seen it from both sides of the fence. It is a friggin mess down there!
Personally I believe that we should bulldoze about a 200 yard swath of clean ground,light it up like the surface of the sun and run a "Berlin" type wall from one end of the border to the other, with guard towers and machine gun nests every 100 yards or so and let that be that!
I don't think...no.... I know that the majority of this population has no clue how truly fugged up it really is down there! I can bet you that these people who are crying about the cruelty and barbarism of the border guards have never once seen what they are facing and have never once spent any time in places like Matamoros or Tijuana or have seen the crazy sh##t that goes on at those manned borders,much less the miles and miles of unmanned fence lines. I'd like to load them all up and drop them down there for a bout a week to wander that border on both sides and then see what they have to say "IF" they make it back!!
Shoot them all!! Maybe it will serve as a deterrent.
Hunt-797031 I agree we should bulldoze but it should be about 500 yds, the maximun range of a m16 is 300 yrd, that leaves 200 yrds to spare in the safe zone. and what you said about have fence from the east to the west border with guard towers every 50 yds sound good. So why haven't they done it. Hunt I don't live over there but I am willing to give my paid labor to help doing that, That was my original idea 30 yrs ago. I mean the army has a corps of engineer to do it, why haven't they did it. When I was stationed in Scholdfield barracks I work for the 84th Engineer Battalion and we did engineer work. Hunt my emial is cubanpete5@yahoo.com, get in contact with me about the project. Its time to put an end to it by building this guard towers.
hunt:
"Before you get up on your judgemental high horse..."? Check your mirrors.
I lived in Mexico for 2.5 years - how long did your live there, did you say?
Knows everything about nothing, and nothing about everything. How utterly common.
Oh SDN about six and half years there and central America and spent a lot more time than that down there! But not in some safe little Americanized compound SDN but with those people...but have it your way. LOL
ed:
You're challenging hysteria. They've typically burned you at the stake.
hunt:
Six and a half years? Sorry, no "Americanized" compounds - despite your speculation. That's what I meant about 'utterly common'. Fit the facts to the fantasy.
Almost 900 comments celebrating the ultra-violent death of a kid. Says a great deal about the 'civilization' we're so proud of.
Calling BS on this one, there have been a total of 118 border patrol agents killed in the line of duty since 1919.
http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/border_security/border_patrol/border_patrol_officer_memorial/alpha_listing_agents/
At least 2 U.S. citizens were killed in cross board shooting, by the border control.
http://www.aclu.org/blog/immigrants-rights-racial-justice-criminal-law-reform/border-patrol-must-stop-hiding-truth-about
I tried to search to find out how many U.S. citizens have been killed from cross border gunfire, and the only ones I found were killed by border control agents.
The anti-mexican crowd can't be swayed with facts. They also know that this is caused by businesses in the USA needing cheep, easily controlled labor. The drug problem isn't supply, it's demand. USA citizens demand their illicit drugs daily and they will rob, cheat, steal and riot to get them. Control our drug demand and the border drug smuggling problem is over.
Now, back to the party of stupid opinion...
I'm thinking kids throwing rocks shouldn't be shot at, but I also know rocks can kill people. Not knowing all the details, I can pass only limited judgement on either side.
"....shot in the back...an autopsy by Mexican authorities showed."
Mexican authorities? And they have how much credibility? About zero!
This has political expediency and conspiracy by the Mexican Government written all over it! The Mexican authorities are entirely capable of doctoring a autopsy report. It's a good bet nobody on this side of the border has seen the remains and the body will be conveniently disposed of before that happens. My question is also what was this kid doing out at midnight with a bunch of drug traffickers. How do we know they did not shoot the kid because he might have turned and ran?
One person throwing rocks is one thing, Several throwing rocks is life threatening. I would shoot into a crowd of thugs throwing irocks at me as I would be in fear of my life. If someone gets it in the back it could be because he saw it coming and turned. Once you make the decision to shoot and start shooting you had better not stop until the threat has been stopped. I say, if you want to criticize, be there to see it for yourself and stop being an armchair judge. We holler about protecting our borders against exactly what these thugs were doing and then criticize them for doing it. Damned if you do and damed if you don't. There are a lot of cops who do minimal enforcement because everytime they do something, someone complains and the police department reads them the riot act. No one can complain if you do not make an arrest. Only if you do .
Think back in history here. Ever hear about the Boston massacre. British troops who were being pelted with rocks and ice decided to open fire at close range and they Killed 5 colonists, the first of which was a black man named Crispus Attucks. Here's the story.
In the fall of 1768, British soldiers were sent to Boston in an attempt to control growing colonial unrest, which had led to a spate of attacks on local officials following the introduction of the Stamp Act and the subsequent Townshend Acts. Radical Whigs had co-ordinated waterfrontmobs against the authorities. The presence of troops, instead of reducing tensions, served to further inflame them.
After dusk on March 5, 1770, a crowd of colonists confronted a sentry who had chastised a boy for complaining that an officer was late in paying a barber bill. Both townspeople and a company of British soldiers of the 29th Regiment of Foot gathered. The colonists threw snowballs and debris at the soldiers. Attucks and a group of men led by Attucks approached the Old State House armed with clubs. A soldier was struck with a piece of wood, an act some witnesses claimed was done by Attucks. Other witnesses stated that Attucks was "leaning upon a stick" when the soldiers opened fire.[9]
Five colonists were killed and six were wounded. Attucks took two bullets in the chest and was the first to die.[10] County coroners Robert Pierpoint and Thomas Crafts Jr. conducted an autopsy on Attucks.[11] Attucks' body was carried to Faneuil Hall, where it lay in state until Thursday, March 8, when he and the other victims were buried together in the same grave site in Boston's Granary Burying Ground.
I am assuming the drugs dropped off in Arizona were lost to the Cartel? So, seven shots to the back from his bosses for losing their merchandise would not be unheard of. There are just too many gray areas in this story to draw a final conclusion.
Agreed but it is good reading to see the comments from everyone. You can never trust the reporting is accurate and then everyone reads and interperts the story different.
uuuuummmmmmmm e patton......I don't see the connection other than don't take rocks to a gunfight.
Not really go back to the news release, click on the link embedded in the article that takes you back to the original story when it was released in October.
"...shot at least seven times from behind..." Ya, and it would have been a lot higher had he not fallen down dead.
Mexicans need to stop raising their kids to be drug smugglers.
They might stay alive longer.
Janine-1645002
Americans need to stop raising their kids to be the worlds drug addicts. They might stay alive longer. Strike last part.
Something just doesn’t make sense in this story. He was shot 7 times at night when he was part of a group that was smuggling drugs into the US. How many were in the group, how many others were also shot, what was the distance on the engagement and what type of weapon was used?
At first blush it sounds like extraordinary shooting ability to land 7 shots under the circumstances dscribed and not to have others shot. I would love to read the final report on the engagement with all the facts.
I agree with you there Bobb...The idiots on this side of the border are as much to blame as the smugglers and the cartels.
When some Americans are stupid enough to use that stuff, there will always be someone ready to sell it to them.
good point Greg, I know unless they hit a organ he could still run and receive more hits at least until it hit his spine, lungs, kidneys or heart well, heart or spine would drop him right away. Hit to the lungs he could run until his lungs filled with blood. We need to know which bullets were first and last to know why so many hit before he dropped. Also was it a m-16 that he was shot with a 20 round clip would empty in 2 seconds and he could easily be hit with 7 bullets starting mid back to head.
Very good point, Greg!
John, "Unfortunately, Border Patrol Agents do not carry rifles and usually have no
access to a rifle or even a shotgun. They have only that small, underpowered
Beretta and they risk their lives in any confrontation where it must be put to
use." http://www.usborderpatrol.com/Border_Patrol412.htm
Even if they did carry a rifle it would be an AR-15, not an M-16, so it would be semi-auto only. To add to Greg's point; it's not possible. I think it is highly likely that the teenager was executed for losing the drugs.
MikeC, one of the many times I went to tijuana with my family to a party, I was told by the border patrol to go to a certain point, I remind you, I had my family, My wife that I got her the green card, my children whom are U.S. citizen and to my surprise granted we were on the US side, I seen various border patrol carrying an m-16. What makes you think he would not use it against us thinking I am smuggling kids even though their were my kids, on top of that my 17 yr old daughter was drunk and I had this stupid border patrol tell she should not drink. Since when he is the head of the family. My family is my family and he does not have the right to give counsel unless the parents authorized and we did not do so. But seing the BP with m-16 sure felt like something is wrong specially when you are in the so called safe zone, the united states of america.
nea:
Will your death be so cavalier? Oh, no - it will be a global tragedy. Really.
Pedrora, if they had rifles, they would have been AR-15's. They have them at border checkpoints; field officers have very little, if any, access. Also, your alarmist statement "What makes you think he would not use it against us" has no basis in fact, so stop whining. Finally, BP agents are LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS! You are damned lucky that your daughter wasn't taken away from you and that you weren't charged with child endangerment. You are offended that the officer commented on your daughter being ILLEGALLY intoxicated? Seriously? What kind of a parent are you anyway? Finally, if you dislike our country so much, why are you here? Is it because it is better and safer than your own? You are welcome to leave if you dislike it so much; we aren't required to accomodate you and have extended a huge amount of courtesy to you so far.
The border agents need to be tried on murder charges. Shot a kid in the back for throwing rocks - what a stupid thing to do. They need to demote him to TSA agent.
Right after they bring Holder and Obama up on charges for fast and furious.......When you make the decision to get involved with drugs and trafficking eventually you risk this outcome.
You apparently do not know that Fast and Furious was a "W" Bush program? You low information voters are a joke. And that's what's destroying this country.
One down thousands to go. We need to set up drones and shoot everyone that crosses the border illegally. That will stop the illegal crossing.
When the Mexican government does something to stop THEIR people from ILLEGALY coming into This country and stop smuggling drugs across the border, then I just might, MIGHT, be concerned with their drug smuggling scumbags being shot, but not until then! So, I guess I will not be bothered by smugglers being shot by our border patrol agents for Long time! Shoot a few more. It should be Shoot On Sight!!
No it wasn't frankjcapp. It really didn't get going until Obama and Holder got ahold of it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Fast_and_Furious
O'Bama and Holder gave U.S. weapons to the Mexican Drug Cartels that they have used to kill Americans. O'Bama should be impeached and him & Holder charged with Murder for every death caused by those weapons.
@REX: B43 & Dickie sent 4,128 to their graves chasing weapons that didn't exist. Do you have the same "outrage"? I don't think so.
The Mexicans should teach their children not to stand at the border and throw rocks. I've seen the films of what these so-called kids are doing and it's not playing games.
frankjcapp... from Holders mouth.
[House Judiciary Committee Holds Hearing on Oversight of the Justice Department - Dec. 8, 2011]
JACKSON LEE:
And I noticed that the ATF launched Project Gun Runner in 2005. Were you in the Justice Department in 2005? I don't recollect that you were.
HOLDER:
No, I wasn't.
JACKSON LEE:
So this is an ongoing program that started, in essence, under the Bush administration.
HOLDER:
Well, Gun Runner started under the Bush administration and Wide Receiver started under the Bush administration; Fast and Furious started during the Obama administration.
http://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/December-8-2011-House-Judiciary-Hearing-Transcript.pdf
same game different name
Fox listeners: Fast 'n Furious was a covert operation developed in 2005 and put into action in 2006. ATF ran a series of "gunwalking" sting operations[2][3] between 2006[4] and 2011.[2][5] These operations were done under the umbrella of Project Gunrunner. Very few in the bush/cheney administration were aware of its existence. It came to light in the Obama administration in late 2010/11. Read it all.
FRANKJCAPP--- get your facts right before you repeat Obamas media lies.....
In actuality, the Fast and Furious program was started in October 2009, nine months into the Obama presidency.
abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/09/president-obama-falsely-claims-fast-and-furious-program-begun-under-the-previous-administration/
I for one support the actions of the Border Patrol. This crap of taking rocks being thrown and shots fired at them across the border is foolish. We need to secure and mine the border. That would slow down the drugs and illegals. We had shoot to kill orders and the border patroled by the military in World War II--we need that again.
frankjcapp-
You apparently do not know that Fast and Furious was a "W" Bush program? You low information voters are a joke. And that's what's destroying this country.
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Talk about low-info voters....
Bush's program Operation Wide Receiver was substantially different than obama's Fast and Furious. To start Bush had the knowledge and consent of Mexican law enforcement and administration, the guns had trackers on them, and when the trackers were found to not be as reliable as promised the program was halted.
Compare this to obama/Holder's program that did not have the knowledge nor consent of the Mexican authorities and did not use trackers. In fact one has to wonder how Holder planned to find the weapons other than finding them at murder scenes like the one in which Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry was murdered.
But then that's typical of obama- he calls for an action without ever considering the ramifications. In this case his hands are dirty.
He was bringing in drugs....not just throwing rocks!
On Tuesday, November 8, 2011 at 12:42PM under oath before the Senate Judiciary Committee at the Dirksen Office Building in response to a question from Sen. John Cornyn, R-Texas Eric Holder made the following statement:
"The Bush Administration is the one that started Wide Receiver the Obama Administration is where Fast and Furious began."
Jongone - It is easy to support your point when you use a single line from a long transcript solely because it supports your view. Read the whole damn thing.
Meridian and Anky, Go and smuggle drugs to help his drug selling cartel.
See this is why we need high capacity magazines. Only 7 times?
Things, I have read the whole damn thing and watched it on C-Span. Unless Holder lied under oath twice F&F started under Obama, those are facts not opinions. I do not care what hearing or report you use find a quote for me where Holder, under oath, testified that F&F started under Bush.
Start @ 2:37 and listen through 2:40 on the below C-Span link below.
http://www.c-span.org/Events/Lawmakers-Question-Holder-on-Operation-Fast-and-Furious/10737425323-1/
This is an interesting thread.
I love it when people argue, and then use a NEWS MEDIA article as their "proof"!!!! lol
I also noticed that several people used the same "quote" even though it is worded differently in each.
~things that make you go "hmmmm....."~
Liberals have destroyed this country :(
And they will continue to do so.
Just because what Repugnicans left was paradise?????
martin33189: "Just because what Rep. left...." Comparatively speaking, "yes", it was paradise. I would gladly turn the clock back six years. Just wait until obamacare kicks in full force, you ain't seen "paradise" yet. Wait till the debt hits $22,000,000,000,000. You ain't seen "paradise" yet. The Communist Party USA did not endorse Barry Hussein in both 2008 and 2012 for nothin'. They know exactly what they are doing.
Poor Mr. Harley is a shill for Rush Limbaugh/ FOX News. Mr. Harley needs and independent education but won't get it because we spent all of our money on war and border patrol. Mr. Harley I hope you die alone and in pain. But please don't call for a doctor, I wouldn't want you to get any Obamacare on you.
Government in general has destroyed this country
News for you, Hrrmm and Mr. Harley! The Founding Fathers were liberals. I'd say they did a pretty good job.
JFK was a liberal in the 1960's. By today's standards he would be considered a far right winger.....
really shows how far left the liberals have shifted...... Hell, they elected a socialist into their party as President who is even further left than them- and they smile with their $hit eating grins..........
Founding fathers make rush limbaugh look like a 60's peacenik..with a flower in his hand.
And Eisenhower would be considered a socialist today by the Republican Party. Reagan couldn't have got the nomination in the current Republican primaries. Nixon, Eisenhower proposed national health care. DAVEM-877764 don't recon you have read much in your life but it is the Republicans that have gone away from the rest of the country and the only way they will ever win a national election again is if the Dems screw it up and go to far to the left. I am in my late 50s, I have been watching this back and forth for a while now. The Tea Party is the just the ugly little head of the Klan coming back once again and you tell me how different are the right wing christian taliban different than the taliban in Afghanastan.
Hope you know the klan KKK had alot of Democrats in it............................
KKK had a lot of democrats in it until the republicans went after their vote and called them the tea party.
The KKK was FOUNDED by Democrats. The Tea Party doesn't have anything to do with the KKK. In fact race doesn't have ANYTHING to do with the TEA Party. Two of the preferred candidates for the TEA Party were Herman Cain (a well established businessman) and Allan West ( a highly decorated retired Army officer). Both of whom are BLACK. Hardly the pinnacle of racism.
The KKK was not founded by democrats. Yes it is true that most of the original KKK members were democrats. At the time it was the more conservative party. They jumped ship to the Republican party when the Democratic platform changed. After the civil rights act was signed the KKK felt betrayed by the Democratic party and quickly flipped to Republican.
I know it doesn't fit your world view, but seriously? Like the KKK has any voice anymore, much less power. Believe it or not folks, they are impotent vestiges of another time and as such don't even really figure into our times. I know it's convenient to yell racism anytime anyone disagrees with you, but I personally think our society's problems are a bit more complex. My only problem with the liberals is their irrational desire to ignore facts for the feel good solutions. Oh, that and the idea that minorities are incapable of achieving anything without our government's help. What ever happened to the American tradition of excellence in the face of adversity?
Brought a rock to a gun fight. Priceless.
Exactly. So why are people so upset about this?
It's Darwin's theory coming to fruition. What's the downside?
HOTTICKET, please go back and READ Darwin, he doesn't say what Fox told you he said:-/
I thinks it suspicious that he was shot seven times in the back?? I mean after the first 2 or 3 hits he would have been down. Sounds like he ended up on the wrong side of the drug cartel and they killed him and then gave the body to their lacky border patrol agents to blame on the americans.
Stoned Philospher?
Our border patrol agents shoot and kill 'people' alot actually. You just don't hear about it much beacause they are 'brown' people. Smuggling exists because we are a nation of unrepentant druggies for the most part and although I realize that taking responsibility is missing from American DNA... we do share the blame in our border problem.
Can we stop it with the stupid "brought an X to a gun fight"? It wasn't a gun fight--it was some kids acting up--it doesn't take more than two or so people to do a drug drop-off, and they typically do it pretty quietly so as not to attract attention. The people who did the drop-off probably did it, and then ran. The teens probably watched and thought it was funny and taunted the BP.
If I decide to go up to someone and shoot him, just because, can I justify it by saying that he "brought an X to a gun fight?" This in some way makes sense, does it? Try again.
You know--that's a border. We aren't supposed to fire across it any more than the Mexicans are supposed to cross it. If you think that you can fire over it any time you want, to shoot teenagers who don't even have weapons, then apparently you don't respect the border either.
US citizens have a history of thinking that they can go into Mexico any time they want and do whatever they want, and then run across the border and not get caught. Sadly, that works. It works because there is a border there and Mexican authorities have no power once you are on "your side." You have to be extradited--not too darned likely. The reason this BP agent won't be extradited, tried, convicted, and executed has to do with the same logic. They will try him in absentia and convict him and sentence him--fat lot of good it will do.
"American exceptionalism" is an ugly thing. Remember that when you complain about people in other countries not liking you. It's the main reason that other countries laugh their heads off when your job goes to their country--and they encourage this. The rest of the world is participating in the downfall of the US because "American exceptionalists" spent so much of their time sitting around thinking that they were just all that.
Young people from the US are already having to flee to get jobs in other countries--they are already over-staying their welcome in China and in Europe. Fortunately for them, they don't have to face this same kind of "exceptionalist" crap, and when they are caught, they will just be sent home without being beaten and imprisoned by an Arpaio type. The best and the brightest are already leaving--this is also a form of Darwinism. And, that--HOTTICKET--is the downside.
Bean----
If you come to a semi-war zone because you think something funny is happening, you need to wear a clowns costume or at least wear a I'm With Stupid T-shirt, with the With crossed out. At least give the folks with the guns a heads up.
Bring on the drones! Right OBey?
Bean@home......Rocks don't kill people, People kill people......DA
bean:
Did you expect anything even remotely intelligent?
@bean@home,
Go spend a lovely couple of days down on the border where they smuggle drugs thru. Be sure that you have your peace sign and flowers. Then if you make it back, tell me its not a war zone.
Hey Bean, Rocks ARE WEAPONS. It takes nothing for someone to kill someone with a rock at 50 yards. How hard is it for a little leaguer to throw a baseball from home plate to second base, or from first to third? The pitcher's mound is around 90 ft from the plate on pony league field. They wear batting helmets for a reason. It's not because getting hit in the head with a throw baseball is a pleasant experience. It's because it can be lethal. What makes you think that a rock thrown by a teenager is any less dangerous?
As for the teenager being hit repeatedly in the back, do you know anything about guns? Even the 40 S&W caliber handguns that the Border patrol agents carry can travel over 400 yards and still be dangerous at that range. An AR-15 is dangerous for over a mile. The incident occurred around MIDNIGHT. Odds are pretty good it was dark. Firing a weapon while under the stress of being attacked is known to cause a lack of accuracy. People also seldom go down after being shot once like on the television. The decedent was probably throwing rocks until the guns came out and then ran catching a number of rounds in the back as the officers were shooting at the rock throwers around him.
When you throw rocks at the authorities of another country while they are defending their border from drug smuggling insurgents you deserve to be shot. You would not be there if you were not actively involved. Good job by the Border Patrol. Thanks for your efforts at trying to protect the citizens of the USA.
No, actually, you don't "deserve it." It's against the law to do that--many, many laws. That's an area with sidewalks, dear--a lot of people might be walking along the sidewalk, even at night. Children who don't go to school are often out and about at midnight--so there goes that logic.
No one "deserves" to be shot who is not actively trying to kill someone else. Anyone who believes that it is fine to shoot people for breaking laws nonviolently needs to go live somewhere where that actually happens to be legal and find out why it isn't a pleasant sort of way to live.
@bean...what do you mean nobody deserves to be shot who is not actively trying to kill someone else....what about a child molester?????@!$%# your an idiot....
@everwidening,can we categorize child diddlers as domestic terrorists....Please? Bring on the drones!
creek dog is a @!$%#. no one has the right to shoot someone in back 7 time. you can stop a people from running by shoot them in leg. ok. you must be kkk.creek dog or not human.
ever:
"your an idiot"? Compared to whom?
Well, it could have been worse. It could have been the Mexican Drug Cartel killing U.S. Border Patrol Agents with those hundreds, upon hundreds, assault weapons that Barry Borrock Soetoro Hussein Osama and Eric Holder GAVE the Mexican Drug Cartels in Project Gunrunner / "Fast and Furious"!!! Oh, how soon we forget about Hussein and Holder.
The very same way that we forget about B43 & Dick, that caused 4,128 Americans dead, chasing weapons that didn't exist. And I haven't see you so furious about that.... Are you mr. harley?
Wow, living in the lies of the past still? You must be really smart to know that "weapons didn't exist" when we have film of thousands of Kurds in Iraq laying dead in the streets from Hussein's use of chemical weapons (that didn't exist?).
The liberal world is a dark and smelly place that few ever escape from.
FastZ: Weapons that WE sold Saddam because it was a better ally in the region while containing Iran. Weapons that Saddam destroyed as part of the agreements of Gulf War 1 (He can remain in power unless he destroys his chemical arsenal), he was one of the first to condemn 9/11 attacks, because he doesn't want to have nothing to do with that (in fact most of the attackers were Saudis). Regardless all the advice on the contrary (Bush dad was better advised in GW1) He went chasing WMD that THEY know that didn't exist. And the only ones that benefited from that war was Halliburton & Co (how convenient Dickie was President of it). So, 4,128 American dead is living in the past???? How patriotic!!!!!
I see, so all of the counties that publicly stated that they believed Iraq had WMDs knew they didn't exist? Their intelligence was wrong too?
Your Bush Derangement Syndrome is unbecoming and does not belong in this debate.
Martin, perhaps you weren't born yet so you don't remember what was happening. Saddam definitely had WMD's...he used nerve gas on his own people and the Iranians "Chemical weapons were used extensively, with more than 100,000 Iranian soldiers as victims of Saddam Hussein's chemical weapons during the eight-year war with Iraq,[44] Iran today is the world's second-most afflicted country by weapons of mass destruction, only after Japan."
So suddenly, Saddam became a choirboy and put all his toys away? He had over two years before he was attacked by coalition forces to move stuff out and the British were still destroying chemical weapons as recently as last year. That "we sold" him. Check your facts, most of the chemical weapons material came from Germany. "Other German firms sent 1,027 tons of precursors of mustard gas, sarin, tabun, and tear gasses in all. This work allowed Iraq to produce 150 tons of mustard agent and 60 tons of Tabun in 1983 and 1984 respectively, continuing throughout the decade. Five other German firms supplied equipment to manufacture botulin toxin and mycotoxin for germ warfare"
I'm tired of hearing the crap.
Martin -
Ah! So you do admit that Saddam Hussein had them!
Your statements contradict each other. Perhaps you should try to get your 'facts' straight before you post them. Otherwise you merely look like a liberal fool with his head stuck so far up Obama's back side that it'll be a week before you even see the light of day.
Hey Harley,
These programs were started under the previous administration... call Rush for some new talking points. That being said... smuggling and rock throwing are NOT punishable by death under US Law. This was a MURDER plain and simple. Just another expression of our endless arrogance as Americans.
SoldierLib... get your facts straight !! Bush did start and END a program called "wide receiver" because it proved almost impossible to trace the weapons. Mr Obama & his brilliant AG started their own program "fast & furious" which was a disaster. Your own bias has BLINDED you to any truth that you don't like.
By the way... I wasn't at the border and you weren't either... and I don't know all the facts, so I won't call it murder or anything else until I know what the facts are !!
"The very same way that we forget about B43 & Dick, that caused 4,128 Americans dead, chasing weapons that didn't exist. And I haven't see you so furious about that.... Are you mr. harley?"
Martin, seriously? I was in Desert Storm. I saw ENORMOUS racks of chemical weapons; those are just the ones that were found. Later, when when the second war started, they DID find chemical weapons. You probably aren't aware of that because the newspapers buried the story. I remember reading a very small story hidden on page 9 of our local newspaper saying that chemical weapons were found. They were old, but they were found. It was speculated that most of the arsenal was shipped to Iran. I'm afraid that if all you have to go by is what the MSM feeds you now, you'll never be able to have an informed opinion.
@mr. harley -- you and the rest of your dumb-a**ed comrades need get yourselves updated with what is going on. Fast & Furious started during the Bush administration in 2006 under a different code name, but the same program nevertheless. Since you're already on-line it shouldn't be hard for you to educate yourself, but I know how difficult it is for republicans/tea baggers to comprehend the written word. Give it a try big daddy because there's small chance you might be able to better yourself, though I doubt it.
@mike c.-923116 -- OH PAAALEEEZ!!! You are filled with some serious BS!!! Had what you say actually happened it would have been on the front page of many reputable news papers from coast to coast, not some little home town rag. Better yet, FUX Cable News would have been just slobbering all over the place with this nonsense. Please don't lie just to back up what your lame political party wants you to say.
mike:
UN weapons inspectors spent years, literally, looking for the weapons you claim to have seen and read about. They found none. Let's see...UN inspectors or 'mike'. Take your pick. Good grief, man. The fiction on this thread would impress HG Wells.
Seriously? We are supposed to be the most powerful nation on the planet and the only way we can protect our borders is to Over-kill teenagers that are on the other side of a fence throwing rocks? What is wrong with this picture? I'm so glad that the folks who are here, posting their silly, racist comments are but, about 0.001 of the country's population. They do not represent the true feelings of America. The people of this nation are not as cruel as the BP who shot this kid or the racist posters condoning the murder. Yes, we don't kill kids in war-zones and that includes drug wars. Rocks vs guns? Serious? I spent 6 years in the U.S. Marine Corps and I'd rather face thrown rocks any day versus a gun. The BP could have just walked back from the fence, let the issue cool down. The kids were on Mexican soil. I'm against illegal immigration too, but I'm also against murder. America has always had her share of white racists, who feel they are always right or that they are better than others. Take the discrimination/civil rights era of the Black man, so many whites felt they were better and that they could taunt, discriminate against, deny rights of, and even murder blacks and get away with it. Now, these sick racists, bigoted pigs have a new human to pick on.... the illegal Mexican. Or in this case Mexican kids throwing rocks. With my experience, I don't believe there were any drugs, I believe the BP was taunted, had rocks thrown at him so, he just got angry ans gun-happy. Its murder,,, he should be prosecuted. We are still a civilized nation, this should not be allowed. Hell with all of the morons crying about border patrol. Most of them are just frrrrking racists. And anyone who feels this was a just killing, I don't want that person to be fighting for the patrol of AMERICAN BORDERS, anyway.
palz and sdn, BAHHHHHBAHHHHHH. Regardless of whether you believe me or not, I trust my own eyes and experience far more than I trust the MSM. Oh, and UN inspectors are SOOOO impartial and SOOOOO effective. If we are to believe them, Iran won't be a nuclear threat for many years. I wasn't in the states in 91, so I don't know if the chemical stockpiles were reported in the news, but regardless of what was reported we spent months destroying them. So keep grazing on that never ending diet of liberal agenda; eventually you'll choke on it.
exactly that was in 91 not 2003... are you really that out of touch. we went to war with Iraq in 2003 for weapons(fact). We went to war with Iraq in 91 for Kuwait. Dumbass
Heeeelllllllloooooo, did you not read what I wrote earlier? They found old weapons from the 90's and intel suggested the new stuff was shipped to Iran. Do you REALLY believe that Saddam quit making weapons after we spanked him the first time. As for me being with a dumbass; I think with my head, so of course I'm a dumbass, we all are. Well, maybe not you...
The Border Patrol has no right to fire on individuals in another sovereign country -- bottom line. Amazing how little disregard we have for human life. Anyone that can't see that this is a problem -- has serious mental and intellectual problems.
Hmmm Obama and drones....serious mental and intellectual problems....at least we agree
You have Obviously never been on a boarder fence at midnight ! Nore dealt with drug dealers.
"Amazing how little disregard we have for human life..."
Your statement does not back up your argument. In fact, your statement makes no sense at all.
Anderson, Anderson, Anderson (Cooper?) we're crossing into sovereign countries and whacking people on a daily basis. Ever hear of a little known country named "Pakistan"? Is Tunisia a sovereign country? How about "Yemen".
As you may or may not have heard, our fearless leaders have just authorized killing with no due process even on American citizens...
Joan,
Yes Obama and drones... Bush and The Iraq war, not to mention the intelligence blunder that allowed 9/11 in the first place... Oh and don't forget about torture... Not to mention allowing the banks to crash our economy AND warrant-less spying on US citizens AND exposing an undercover CIA agent in retaliation for her husbands attempt to tell the truth about yellow cake uranium. Whew that's alot of stuff isn't it?
I guess my point is that President Obama's record is bad so far but he's not much different than the guy before... just African American.
SoldierLib.... they say miracles don't happen anymore... baloney !!! You are proof that an organism without a brain can live.
soldier:
Know your adversary. baliman for example. Fish in a barrel. Small wonder President Obama was reelected.
sluggo:
Not making sense to you makes perfect sense.
...
This is so typical !!
Shoot a Hispanic - who cares.
How about reasoning with him ?
.
Biden in 2016.
...
Look Mr or Mrs. Hispanic. I know you've paid this man all your money and you've crawled on your belly for hours, sat in the back of a panel truck with 30 other sweaty dirty other people and you're only a few hours from America and a good paying job. But what you're doing is illegal and you're not American citizens and we'd like you just to turn around and go back to where you came from. Of course if you want, we'll take to you to our facility and take you back in our air conditioned bus for free and you can return home without penalty and try again another day. I hope you don't think we're being unreasonable.
I wonder if you'd "go back to where you came from" if Native Americans said the exact same thing to you.
nothing new here, please enlighten me as to how you reason with anyone who is throwing rocks with the intent of hurting someone? Do you say please real nice and hope they stop?
Da, the Native Americans did their best to drive us away from their land, but we acquired it through the Right of Conquest. The Mexicans are not even trying to do the same.
Right of Conquest? Seriously? So you're saying it's okay to take land as long as we conquer the native people, but if people try to come in and hold down jobs and what not, that's unforgivable.
Got it.
Yes, coming in a holding down jobs is unforgivable especially if the republican businessmen are hiring them and betraying their little tea party shills.
RIP little drug smuggler. I realize many, many more young aspiring criminals are right behind you. But, Rome was not built in a day. One at a time, one at a time.
Rome wasn't built in a day...yes, but it burned in one, (Classic retort.)
The fire you're so informed about burned for more than a week. I bet you think the emperor Nero fiddled away while it burned also. Just another myth. Nero didn't know what a fiddle was. He was into lyre's, a form of a small harp. Don't try to talk smack about history to me.
Sounds to me like he got what he deserved. This reminds me of a case where this black teen thought he was a tough guy and attacked some mexican dude standing at the store....apparently, the mexican guy had a gun and pulled it out after being attacked and shot and killed the black teen....
if you go asking for trouble....you'll find it......in both cases they got what the deserved.
So I guess you are an all purpose racist then... Most gun violence in the USA is commited by WHITE men... It's a fact Mr.Duke. I am white and constantly disappointed by my peers.
most "gun violence" in the US is gang related. If these gangs are white, then you are correct.
Your wrong... turn off Rush and check your facts. Gang violence accounts for a very small portion of gun violence in the US. Most is caused by legal gun owners in defense of nothing but their own stupidity and overwhelming sense of entitlement.
SoldierLib, sorry dear but you are wrong. The majority of gun violence is gang and drug related and I haven't seen to many white gangs roaming the streets. If facts make one racist then I guess so.
SoldierLib, citations, please. BTW, I truly doubt you are, were, or ever will be a soldier, Jodie!
I don't believe your little "black teen" story!
I have a lot of respect for most cops, but watching the same named TV show you realize most applicants for police departments are usually high school graduates with no other skills or special training and for the most part, just fall into police work.
A few weeks training and they are on the streets with a gun. It is a stressful and tense line of work. The decision to fire your gun is a tough one, I imagine. So working as a group, when one cop fires, the others assume it's time to all shoot.
If our government wasn't run by such crooks, they could give these policemen more training, the could protect our elementary kids, they could give seniors better health care, they could feed the poor. It goes on and on.
But they have decided to recommend everyone buy a shotgun instead of an assault rifle so they could outlaw them and win points in Congress. As if 5 shotgun shells won't do as much damage as a full clip of 223 ammo.
Congress is so laughable stupid, I'm surprised we're still here as a country. I guess it's like the company U.P.S. It's so BIG that it doesn't matter how many packages they break, they'll keep going.
Jim, I am not sure what your rant was directed at as you changed subjects a lot. Your assumptions about law enforcement are wrong. They all don't just open fire after the first shot. Yes you can join a force with only a HS education but you also go to an academy for training and receive courses every year. Just like the military, join right out of school and go to basic training. Well there is that, you must be 21 thing also.
Jim, I'm a police chief and your comments are just absolutely false and clueless as to your knowledge of police applicants and their subsequent training process. It takes about a year through the academy and then the field training program before "they are on the streets with a gun". Do a little research besides TV before making such inaccurate comments about a topic you obviously have very little knowledge.
That said, the latter comments of your posting have merit.
Cheif of what department? There is no national standard for police training... That being said... Rock throwing and drug smuggling are not punishable by death under US Law. So how are you justifying what amounts to murder of an unarmed civilian?
"unarmed"?? How ignorant is that? Rocks are definitely weapons and definitely can be lethal. When I was a kid, I threw rocks all the time and got quite good at it...good enough to kill rabbits and quail while I was getting the cows in to milk. I'll guarantee I could have killed a human as well with a near fist-sized rock and I was good enough for a head shot at 25 yards. You poke at a hornet's nest you should expect to get stung. Had these kids been at home on their couch smoking the pot instead of throwing rocks they wouldn't have a dead buddy right now. Make no mistake, these "kids" are professional smugglers and as such are used to employing violence.
Yes rocks can be deadly and cars and an infected paper cut for that matter... what's your point? Still not punishable by death under US Law(my point).
Did you vote Jim? Did you vote for the incumbent? If your congressman is stupid fire his a$$. Unless he is one of those give them cake idiots, you are out numbered by the takers and the uninformed. Goes for congress women too. You're also referring to the old days of police work. Today almost all forces require at least an associate degree or 60 credit hours, sorry Pal but there are national and state standards. How do you think the police academies operate? As stand alone hip shooters. Today's Police officers are intelligent and well trained, in most areas.
Hey SoldierLib, you must not be a U.S. citizen,or you are one of the very stupid one's.Rocks are considered as weapons,and if told to put it down in the middle of a drug smuggling bust and refuses,and goes ahead and throws it anyway,especially in the middle of the night,that is considered a threat to the officers life and is punishable by whatever force is necessary.In this case it was death,but still justifiable.As for the car comment,a car is a weapon also.And if a suspect comes at a officer,or even a civilian for that matter,with a car as well,you are allowed to use DEADLY FORCE legally.The story of the 16 year old is trying to make the officers look like bad guys because,how could this poor innocent kid be a victim of this,BULL S H I T.I dont care how old you are,if you are involved in drugs and guns,then you are old enough to pay the price,bottom line.They should shoot more,and let them know that this is not a game,and what the carrtels are telling them that they wont be hurt because of there age,is B.S.Oh,even your stupid common on a paper cut,would be prosecuted as well,if proven that you knew it was infected and meant to do bodily harm to someone.Aggrivated assault,and if death accured from that infection,you would be BEGGING for a plea bargain of manslaughter,rather than the first degree murder charges that would be braught on you.
@ Jim
My son is looking to get into law enforcement. He finished 4 years of active duty in the Marines. He is now working for a Security company. He's 22. You are completely out in left field in your assumption of who police departments hire & at what age.
"who they watched drop drugs on the Arizona side of the border" No big deal another dope smuggler dead. boo hoo he was only 16, boo hoo he was shot dead, boo hoo HE WAS A DOPE SMUGGLER. shoot more and they will try it less.
And you called yourself Dear God???
Very "Christian" your reasoning.......
Martin - you are presuming he is Christian...He is more likely a Muslim as they hang druggies (after flogging them).
I find it absolutely hilarious that you truly think a BP agent shot this kid. With a 9mm. At a distance. In the middle of the night. Seven times. Let's apply Occam's Razor shall we; kid gets caught dropping the drugs, drugs are seized, kid runs away, angry cartel member executes kid for losing drugs because he has no respect for life. I realize another perspective that goes against your beliefs is hard for you to consider, but give it a try.
@Martin...it is actually good solid Christian reasoning. The Bible states clearly to protect your home, family and country. (I will set a garrison around my Temple, to hinder those who might come and go, and to guard against oppressors who intend to invade; for I have taken note of this with my eyes." Zachariah 9:8)
Just a typical teenage playing rock, paper, gun.....
@Anderson tell that to Barry and his drone program
Oh boo-hoo ! And what was the little bastard doing stoning cross-border agents in the middle of the night?...too effen bad !
He gave us the reason and we gave him the answer. This need to become more typical.
chronicart-2......
Yes, and the same answer works for the drug addict, the reason the drug smuggler exists.
Keep up the good work. One less piece of trash drug runner..
Good, it's about time the U.S. Border Patrol started doing their jobs. And you people that are boo-hooing for the criminal need to get your asses out of MY country.
Your country was stolen from the people they are shooting at... dumdass. For God's sake turn off Rush/FOX News and read a history book. What have you done to justify it beig your country? Being born here? That's not much tough guy.
Right on freddy4life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SoldierLib - Get off the "stolen country" nonsense. No one alive today did what was a perfectly acceptable practise in those days. Who crossed that land bridge way back when and claimed the land first? Was there already someone here? Today your government can decide to take property your family has owned for a couple hundred years and build a mall on it so they can get more tax revenue out of it. That is stealing. Dead punk ass kid got what was coming. If you don't act a fool, you won't die like a fool...
Looks like SOLDIERLIB is alittle racist against americans taking Mexican land 200 years ago,lol.California,Arizona,Nevada,Colarado,Utah,and New Mexico.Which we all know why MEXICANS named Cancun Mexico was it is.Thats the first letter of every state we took,and we know the MEXICANS didn't forget.We know there is strength in numbers,and thats why MEXICANS bread like babbits,and try to carry your kids over the border by the umbilical cord,to get your free welfare so you can spend it on Mexican owned businesses.The American people are no longer putting up with the MEXICAN B.S.and you are getting mad,lol.They need to have fully automatic weapons at the border and shoot anyone and EVERYONE COMING OVER.
We took that land by the Right of Conquest, which was recognized until the United Nations abolished it during the 1950s. That's why William the Conquerer is not called William the Illegal Occupant.
SoldierLib, that land was bought and paid for due to the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo. You know, it ended the Mexican-American war. You know, when we occupied over 2/3rds of Mexico, including Mexico City. You know, when we could have just KEPT THE WHOLE COUNTRY. Looking back, maybe we should have; the peoples' lives would be better, the infrastructure would be sound, they would have the protection of law, and we would have a tiny southern border. Hmmm, would've been a win-win all around.
BTW, the Nation of Atzlan is a pipe dream.
wtf:
You could be poster boy for ignorance run rampant. Your moniker is perfection.
"Cancun" is what? No "T" in Cancun, as far as I can see. "We all know...." what? I did notice also that "MEXICANS" is in all caps, yet "americans" has no initial cap. Trust me, no one took Colarado from anyone. The.... "bread" thing? Confused?
Syntax, punctuation, capitalization and spacing aside, your post is nothing short of pathetic.
Mike:
Check back when you have even the most tenable grasp on the history of the Western Hemisphere. Until then, leave us with at least some doubt.
sdn, I'm sorry if your teachers never taught you American History. After seeing the materials my grandkids are studying, I can understand if you think I am mistaken. Why don't you go read a history book published before '90 and get back to me.
"The Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo (Tratado de Guadalupe Hidalgo in Spanish), officially Treaty of Peace, Friendship, Limits and Settlement between the United States of America and the Mexican Republic,[1] is the peace treaty between the U.S. and Mexico that ended the Mexican–American War (1846–48). With the defeat of its army and the fall of the capital, Mexico entered into negotiations to end the war. The treaty called for the United States to pay $15 million to Mexico and pay off the claims of American citizens against Mexico up to $3.25 million. It gave the United States the Rio Grande boundary for Texas, and gave the U.S. ownership of California, and a large area comprising New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, Utah, and parts of Wyoming and Colorado. Mexicans in those annexed areas had the choice of returning to Mexico or becoming U.S. citizens with full rights."
Pretty recent, but basically accurate. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Guadalupe_Hidalgo
I understand that IF is a very big word. IF the boy had not been smuggling drugs; IF he had been home in bed with his family at that time of night; IF he had not snuck across the border; IF he had just ran off into the darkness instead of throwing rocks at the agents; And IF he would have stopped when ordered to, then he would still be alive today. In life, there are consequences. Unfortunately, he tested the limits and lost. I feel sorry for the Agent who will be grilled and persecuted for doing his job. IF only he (the Agent) had decided to call in sick that night and stay home with his family instead of having to go out, late at night to protect out borders, this would not have happened. IF only our President would properly secure our borders; IF only our President would make it not so attractive to sneak into our Country, then none of this would have happened. DON'T BLAME THE AGENT, BLAME THOSE WHO CHOOSE TO BREAK THE LAWS.
Well done.
What happened if this happened all the way around??? A Mexican Border patrol officer shots an American teen in the back 7 times? What our response would be??? Invasion? War? Carpet bombing Mexico? How hypocrites are the so called "Patriots", that if the life wasted is of a Mexican, nothing else matters, but if it is an American, are capable of sending thousands of soldiers to die for....
Actually what would have happened as it often does, OUR government would have paid mom and dad to keep quiet not cause an international incident. Where was our governemnt when the AZ rancher was shot and killed on his own property by a band of illegals smuggling assault weapons INTO the U.S.? Our government was telling Trashico, so sorry you felt the need to do this. Do you need a better route?
If this had been an American teen who was caught dropping a shipment of dope in Mexico, and got shot crossing back, my feelings would be the same. You either do what is right, or you pay the cost for doing wrong. I hear the drug gangs are always recruiting more drug runners. If you feel the 16 year old was not in the wrong, go and take over his chosen occupation.
Martin, there are no Mexican Border Patrol agents on their northern border, BECAUSE NOBODY IS TRYING TO SNEAK IN! lmao!
I understand that IF is a very big word. IF the boy had not been smuggling drugs; IF he had been home in bed with his family at that time of night; IF he had not snuck across the border; IF he had just ran off into the darkness instead of throwing rocks at the agents; And IF he would have stopped when ordered to, then he would still be alive today. In life, there are consequences. Unfortunately, he tested the limits and lost. I feel sorry for the Agent who will be grilled and persecuted for doing his job. IF only he (the Agent) had decided to call in sick that night and stay home with his family instead of having to go out, late at night to protect out borders, this would not have happened. IF only our President would properly secure our borders; IF only our President would make it not so attractive to sneak into our Country, then none of this would have happened. DON'T BLAME THE AGENT, BLAME THOSE WHO CHOOSE TO BREAK THE LAWS.
Your making too much sense and giving allot of people headaches!
Why didn't the article read: Thug Mexicans throwing rocks, in an attempt to injure border guards were shot and killed.
Maybe over-reaction on part of the Border Patrol, but hey, you get out in the middle of the night, supporting your local drug runners (or maybe he was one of them), start trouble and sometimes the trouble runs right over top of you. Act like a fool (or a gang member), die like a fool...
wych:
If that were the case, there would be but 8 or 10 comments on this thread.
Don't these Border Patrol Agents get trained in rules of engagement? Since when is it allowed to shoot across a border? I would have thought that patrolling the border is about preventing a crossing, not by killing those traveling in the other direction already on the other side. And, since when do you have to shoot so many times to avoid being pelted by rocks when all you have to do is walk out of range, one hundred yards would suffice? Guns don't kill people, hateful morons carrying guns kill people.
Raul first of all this reported shooting was by the mexican government. A real trusty bunch they are. This person could have been shot by drug cartel for getting caught and loosing the drugs. I can tell you this much the poor border patrol will now get fired because the leader of mexico north Obuma will make sure he is.