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Franco Origlia / Getty Images, file
Wisconsin native James Harvey, right, was among six new cardinals installed during a ceremony on Nov. 24.
Updated at 6:41 p.m. ET: When the next Papal Conclave meets behind closed doors to replace the retiring Pope Benedict XVI, the United States will have an unprecedented voice in the process.
Eleven cardinal electors, almost 10 percent of the conclave, will be Americans -- the largest share the country has ever had, even though it has historically had a large Catholic population.
The retiring pope gets credit for the greater influence of the U.S.
Last year, he named three new American cardinals, increasing the U.S. total to 19. Only 11 will be electors because in order to vote in the papal election, the cardinals must be under 80 when the pope being replaced dies or leaves his seat.
With 11 votes, the U.S. is now the second-largest bloc, behind only Italy, which has 28 electors, according to the Holy See press office at the Vatican. Germany is third, with six. The new pontiff is expected to be elected by the end of March, according to Vatican officials.
The archbishop of New York, Cardinal Timothy Dolan, explains the "mixed emotions" he feels about the news that Pope Benedict XVI will resign on February 28, saying he feels a "special bond" with the pope.
Cardinal Timothy Dolan, the archbishop of New York who was elevated to cardinal last year, is considered a longshot candidate to succeed the pope.
When asked about the qualities necessary for the next pope, Dolan told TODAY that "a good place to start would be to look at Pope Benedict."
He added: "There's a learning, a savviness about the world, there's a theological depth, there's an unquestionably personal piety and holiness, there's a linguistic talent, there's a knowledge of the church universal."
When asked whether he would be allowed to vote for himself, Dolan laughed. "Crazy people cannot enter the conclave," he joked.
The shift in power toward the U.S. “reflects the vitality of the Catholic Church in the United States,” John Paul II biographer George Weigel said in November.
"But I don’t think it likely that any American will be elected pope for as long as the United States remains the world’s pre-eminent power," he added.
Alessandro Speciale, Vatican correspondent at Religious News Service, echoed Weigel’s opinion, adding that “coming from the world’s only superpower could still be seen as a negative factor in a global church.”
What the increasing U.S. presence among the cardinal electors might mean is that Benedict XVI was very much aware that Catholicism is no longer a predominantly European religion.
Javier Barbancho / AFP - Getty Images
Joseph Ratzinger became Pope Benedict XVI in 2005. Look back at his life from childhood through his papacy.
The U.S. has as many as 78 million Catholics, according to the Center for Applied Research in the Apostolate at Georgetown University. For comparison’s sake, Italy, despite having the largest share of electors and being primarily Catholic, has a total population of fewer than 61 million residents, according to World Bank estimates from 2011.
"It remains to be seen whether this numerical weight will actually translate into influence at the conclave," Speciale said in November. "Though national links are powerful, many other factors ... play into the secret voting at the Sistine Chapel."
Some experts have suggested that the next pope might be from Latin America.
Reuters noted Monday that Latin America now "represents 42 percent of the world's 1.2 billion-strong Catholic population, the largest single block in the Church, compared to 25 percent in its European heartland."
Archbishop Gerhard Mueller, who now holds the pope's old post as head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, is among the senior Vatican officials to suggest that it might be Latin America's turn.
"I know a lot of bishops and cardinals from Latin America who could take responsibility for the universal Church," he told Duesseldorf's Rheinische Post newspaper in December.
Cardinal Roger M. Mahony, the retired archbishop of Los Angeles, announced in a statement Monday that he will help pick the next pope: "I look forward to traveling to Rome soon to help thank Pope Benedict XVI for his gifted service to the Church, and to participate in the Conclave to elect his successor."
Mahony's announcement that he'll participate in the decision came despite documents revealing he was complicit in protecting priests accused of sex abuse during his tenure as head of the Archdiocese of Los Angeles.
The 85-year-old pope says he no longer has the strength to carry out his duties, announcing that he will resign effective February 28. NBC's Claudio Lavanga reports from Rome.
Related:
Pope Benedict XVI to step aside on Feb. 28
'Heavy heart but complete understanding': Pope's resignation stuns church leadership
From prisoner of war to pontiff: A timeline of Pope Benedict XVI's life
Leave a Comment:
This is odd...I read recently that this resignation has much more to do with politics than with advancing age...I believe he is being forced out...
He didn't want to be Pope while Obama was still reigning as the 3rd anti-christ........
LOL.....You old white republicans just don't give up. Second post, and it's President Obama's fault?
Maybe, but the last time the Pope was in America he stepped off his private jet and walked over to this brand new limousine. It had 12 cylinders, was covered with shiny chrome, had fancy spinner hubs and over-sized wheels. He took one look at it and told the chauffeur "Get in back, I want to drive this baby". He took off down the highway going 75, then 85 and before you know it he was going well over a hundred. A cop stopped him. The Pope rolled down his window and asked the cop if he knew who he was. The cop stammered "Yes, I recognize your hat, excuse me a minute please". The cop walked back to his cruiser and called the chief and said, "I stopped someone who is very important. He is big, I mean really big. I don't know what to do." The chief asked, "Is he a movie star?" The cop said "No, much bigger." The chief asked, "Is he the Governor." The cop said, "no, bigger." The chief said, "You didn't stop the President did you?" The cop said "No, bigger that him." The chief said "I give up, who is it?" The cop said "I don't know, but the Pope is his chauffeur."
Must have been the the chief lawyer for the Catholic church the pope was driving.
HopeisGone
OH yes, that's obama. Are you sure you are not confusing Obama with one of the existing right wing christian Taliban in the US? The ones who pick what parts of the bible they want us to follow, while they ignore the other parts?
When asked about his plans for the future..... the Pope exclaimed, "I'm going to Disney World!"
Just for the record, who were the first two anti-christs?
Hitler and Stalin???? But you could replace those names with hundreds of others throughout time.
minimal impact at best.power still resides in Europe.
very smart politics....he now has control over who his successor is.......
Yep, time for a change to a Progressive Pope then he/she can help change the World.
Interesting that the US now has a say in this. The future is forming according to plan. If his name is Peter that would be even more interesting.
Ido, said to say there will never be a progressive pope. It ain't gonna happen.
Just an FYI, Hitler is a primary reason why you have the vatican. He was a devout catholic and the reasons he did what he did was due to catholic religious teachings.
It started with Saint Melito of Sardis and the teachings of jewish deicide. Before you go and say hitler wasn't a *real christian*, he killed 6.5 million men, women, and children for his religious beliefs and strongly believed he was doing gods work and his religious duty.
The time for the church is over. People no longer believe in magic or alchemy and religion no longer has a valid place in our society. Since the church can no longer burn heretics and the outspoken, they are forced to sit by the wayside as more and more rational logic and reasoned thinking is shared amongst the masses.
My children are being taught there is no god and to question with scrutiny anyone that tries to tell them otherwise.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Fallacious logic, no matter how passionate, is simply no way to ascertain truth, and that you simply do not accept an argument from authority unless the person is credentialed and welcome to scrutiny. Of course the church is not welcome to being challenged.
los', where in the world did you get your notions about Hitler and Catholicism? You make wild assertions without any documentation. Give and cite sources if you want to have a shred of credibility.
ldo, if Francis Cardinal George has the clout media think he has, forget a progressive Pope. George is as regressive as they come.
@losghost
While the Vatican and the Nazi regime had, at times, a disturbingly cordial relationship, there is absolutely no historical evidence that I know of to suggest that Hitler was a "devout Catholic."
jkatze - That's a frightening thought. Francis Cardinal George makes the current pope seem as approachable as a character from Disneyland, and is about as friendly as a pit bull with rabies, based on the stories I've heard. Had he lived and circumstances been right, Joseph Cardinal Bernardin was probably the best shot the US ever had of having one of their own become pope.
Yeah thats what they need - the US to influence the next pope. Not that sex abuse cases dont happen elsewhere but they are prolific in the US. This is like appointing the fox to pick the next hen house guard.
Losghost, where did you come up that "People no longer believe in magic or alchemy and religion no longer has a valid place in our society." Are you speaking for the millions who do believe? Well I for one would appreciate you not speaking for my family... Thank you!
From Hitler's Mein Kampf : “hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the almighty creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the lord.”
Well I'm not one to start rumors mind you.. but could this just be a fox news power play makeover ..should be interesting to see if the Roman Catholic Church will elect an American with their electoral college vote
Hmmm...
Fox News Reporter Hired as Vatican Media Adviser
By RACHEL DONADIO
Published: June 24, 2012
ROME — In an effort to shore up its communications strategy amid a widening leaks scandal in a troubled papacy, the Vatican has hired the Fox News correspondent in Rome as a senior communications adviser.
The correspondent, Greg Burke, 52, who has covered the Vatican for Fox since 2001, will leave the network to help improve and coordinate the Vatican’s various communications operations, Mr. Burke and the Vatican spokesman said.
Some Vatican watchers called the move a power play by media-savvy Americans — including Cardinal Timothy M. Dolan, the archbishop of New York and the president of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops — inside a Vatican hierarchy run by Italians whose most frequent communications strategy is to accuse their critics of defamation.
Mr. Burke is a member of the conservative Opus Dei movement, and his hiring underscores the group’s role in the Vatican.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/25/world/europe/vatican-hires-fox-news-correspondent-as-media-adviser.html?_r=0
Let me start by saying I'm not Catholic. That said, I hope they don't bow to the PC crowd and elect a pope because he's black or Hispanic, or whatever minority, BUT because that person is most qualified for the position period.
Losghost....., Hitler a devout Catholic? Where do you find this stuff?
Instead of Pope, he should be called the "grope" LOL! :>
To..scubasteve"""
One that comes to mind....
Ronald Wilson Reagan
6 6 6
Discgolfdave,Thank you.That was the best post so far.
hardtostarboard,I'm not Catholic either so this doesn't concern me and it shouldn't concern you either.
I think he could get acting gigs in vampire movies.
I vote for Mickey Mouse.
They need to elect a leader, someone who brings people of the world together. Unfortunately this Pope did more harm than good during his short but destructive era.
I don't care where the next Pope is from, provided he is against homosexual pedophilia.
Do not take my word for it that Hitler was a devout catholic. Plenty of his speeches are available and you can listen to it right from his mouth. Read his works and his history.
Furthermore, I already stated where the idea to kill jews came from. Do the research on your end if you doubt me.
Read about the history of the vatican, the pressure Hitler put on Mussolini to recognize vatican statehood.
These things are freely available to research. Your personal incredulity has no bearing on the accuracy or truth of the matter.
Jonathan you have fallen for the anti US hype when it comes to priests and abuse. That's exactly what the vatican wanted you to beleive, that it was a US problem. Unfortunately, it is a world wide problem, even more so in the asian countries than here in the US.
Bring on Petrus Romanus...the tribulation is at hand.
does Sandusky have a chance of being the next pope...
Since the Americans will have so much clout maybe they will elect President Obama the new Pope. This would be historic; he'd be the first black AMerican President and the first American Pope!Pyus the first to be President and Pope at the same time!!!!USA USA USA!!!!!!
No matter who they elect as the new Pope, the Catholic Church has an enormous task ahead of them, cleaning up the mess relating to child abuse and paedophilia.
obama thinks it time for undocumented Pope...called Pedrofill'ya...to be politically correct...
Americans For The Removal Of Illegals
G W Bush " They have WMD'' They have WMD" They have WMD" They have WMD"" They have WMD'' They have WMD" They have WMD" They have WMD"" They have WMD'' They have WMD" They have WMD" They have WMD"" They have WMD'' They have WMD" They have WMD" They have WMD"
Yup it's true, keep telling a lie and they will believe it.
To stay on track though, Ben XVI has ben the worst pope in modern history. It's time for a pope who believes in science.
losghost...
Who are you kidding with your half-baked knowledge. And for anyone in a discussion regarding the Catholic church to bring up Adolph Hitler is vile.
Nice work dad! Really something to be proud of. First lets talk about your knowledge basis for stating Hitler was a devout Catholic. His parents were when he was born in Austria, he stopped participating in the Catholic Church after his childhood and joined the "Deutsche Christen Church" that was based on the theology that rejected the Hebrew origin of the Gospel and Christ.
Next. his own writings establish a covert plan to destroy christianity within the Reich which would be done by control of the churches, he opposed any organized religion because he feared it's power over his.
Nest...While it is true, Vatican City was established under the Lateran Treaty in 1929, the first church to house Catholic Cardinals and Popes was built on the Vatican site in 326. The Vatican as we know it today was built under Pope Paul III in 1534 - 1549 and became permanently known as the Pope's residence in 1870, nine years before the birth of Hitler. Mussolini knew he could not rise to power unless he had the Catholic church support, so he fostered a good relationship at first with the church. Mussolini signed the Lateran Treaty to create Vatican city in 1929 to gain support in Italy and with Christians in Europe. He needed to make the Pope his ally and he was pressuring the Vatican to officially excommunicate Hitler from the church. Mussolini lost all credibility after his "Charter of Race" manifesto in July 1938. Hitler put no pressure on Mussolini to recognize the Vatican statehood, Mussolini wanted the Vatican to excommunicate Hitler publically due to his hatred for him.
Hitler gave speeches during his rise to power catering to Christianity in order to gain support in Europe. He used the same tactics Mussolini did in Italy. They used the Church, the Vatican because they knew without their initial support they were too powerful a force in Europe to gain the control they both eventually had and lost.
Whatever College you paid tuition to for your achievements in analytical learning skills needs to reimburse you. Here's an idea losghost, don't rely on wikipedia for your education on theology or history. Take some college classes and pick up a book. It's called RESEARCH. Not ...Gee, I think I'll read the first few lines of a few articles I plug into wikipedia or some other network site.
And how sad we've become a nation that for an article regarding the resignation of the Roman Catholic Pope to bring out the worst in people with nonsensical political views and slams toward the President.
wtw of KC
So do half the church youth ministries in this country as well as the Boy Scouts of America
LorraineH,
Your cherry picking of various details does not make what you have to say a fact any more than mine. I do not rely on "wikipedia" and simply do not have the time to educate you with a dissertation, but maybe later.
There is a laundry list of individuals that Hitler followed and groups that he was a member of. To cite one and declare his mind state is dishonest at best.
Even if you are successful at showing that Hitler was not a devout christian and that he fooled people, you cannot deny that the people that performed those heinous acts WERE devout Christians. No matter how you bake it, the holocaust is christian baggage, and religion that mechanism for vile acts against other humans. Pure and simple.
As for my children, I am very proud. Some of us do not view unchecked devotion to mysticism and supernatural as a virtue. They are taught to respect others, be kind and honest, family and duty to country.
These are virtues, and religion is not needed whatsoever to have them.
losghost
The only mysticism here is what you think you know and who you think you're talking to. I'm surprised you are not a religious person yet know so much about the holocaust being christian baggage. And before you even have the slightest inkling to try to educate someone with a dissertation....prepare one first and put your Theology Ph.D. up against mine. To state the holocaust was carried out as a mechanism of vile acts against other humans (pure and simple) as you state it was based upon religion is not only insulting to anyone who reads your trash (christian or not) but lacks the very virtues you state you profess for your children let alone yourself especially when you realize the defination of the word virtue means: moral excellence, goodness, and righteousness. There is nothing righteous in your statement.
SUDDENLY...all this concern for "The Pope" and "The Catholic Church" (btw I'm not Catholic) from MSNBS that has done nothing but bash this group....pathetic.
ProFreedom:
Look at the 8 top contenders to take the spot of the final pope, who, according to St. Malachay, will be named Peter, and be known as the black pope, and be the antichrist.
Peter Turksen of Ghana.
Outside of the fact that he's 85 years old, he was from Nazi Germany and a Hitler Youth.
I know we're supposed to forgive, but really, who wants a Nazi Pope?
The Jews were right all along, during WW2 they told us that Vatican City was full of Nazis, now we know that was true. Why didn't anybody check and get them outta there I wonder.
TO: plain bob who wrote:
That's what YOU think, you're the one who made it up, "Pedrofillya"!
Sick.
This would be a good time to sell everything including the Vatican, the jewels, the precious metals, properties and even the clothes they wear, give it all to the poor and sick and close up shop. They are done with their bullsh!t. I was in one of their bording schools as a kid in the early 40s and the child abuse there was staggering and the moving of priests around and ..... no one in my family was willing to believe what was happening.
I see no absolution or redemption for them if they continue.
THERE IS NOTHING CHRISTIAN ABOUT THE CATHOLIC HIERARCHY.
LorraineH,
Your ad hominem shows how limited your ability to convince with evidence is.
That you have to try and assert some authority in this discussion is telling. I'm very sorry, but to me a PhD in theology is like being an expert in the easter bunny or loc ness monster. ie: Not impressed. I'll stick the PhD's in biology, Mathematics, and Quantum physics for my mystical explanations.
Of course then I wouldn't expect you to research anything that would run counter to the benefit of the church or counter to the doctrine.
Funny you made no mention of Melito, having had some indoctrination training I would assume you know who he is and his relevance to discussion on jewish deicide, his influence on the church in that respect, and the ties to Hitlers flavor of catholicism.
You also failed to mention the concordat between the holy see and Austria, to which, Hitler installed quite a few german authorities which coincided with the reichskonkordat which both occurred in 1933.
Anyhoo, I really don't feel like furthering this conversation. You are not my audience, and the folks reading this and interested in it will be able to research this on their own.
I do not assert authority on this subject. Everyone reading this is free to research on their own and come to their own conclusions. Just be wary of the sheer volume of revisionism you will face and the very massive attempts of the church and folks like Lorraine here to change the history books.
Cardinal Dolan would not be my choice for Pope. If scripture has anything to do with the Catholic church, then it would be the most humble Cardinal in attendance who does not covet the power of the Papacy. That pretty much rules out Dolan. Probably some obscure quiet, non political Cardinal would make a good Pope. Someone a Catholic could honestly ask "who?"
By whom? The Pope is the absolute head of the Catholic Church and his own city-state. He is answerable to no one. He's even immune to American pressure since we'd never invade Vatican City and we'd never impose sanctions.
Attention! Check out that first photo in this editorial. Look at the Cardinal pictured on the left shaking hands with that other Cardinal. His name is Bernard Law. He is a disgraced Cardinal from Massachusetts. Not only did Bernard Law cover up pedophile crimes he in fact condoned it. Bernard Law was into mind manipulation and the subjects he used for his experiments were children who were inflicted with Dissociative identity Disorder (DID). Children who become victims to pedophilia will become traumatized which next leads to DID infliction. How do I know this to be true? I WAS A VICTIM of this bastard! If I ever come into contact with this Bernard Law again, I will kill him! Repeat, I will kill him and then I'll finally be able to have a lawyer "free of charge" in order to tell my story!
BTW, guess who picks the pope? The Cardinals pick the pope. Yes, pedophiles and pedophile condoners pick the pope. Puke!
To those questioning Hitlers involvement with the Catholic church. I can't answer that but what I do know is Italy was part of the Axis of Evil and where is the Vatican located? If they really cared about the genocide of millions they would of tried harder, instead after a few failed attempts and Poland rejecting their proposal to give in and allow Nazi occupation to prevent Russia from gaining territory. They conveniently took a position of neutrality to ensure they remain friends with which ever side wins the war.
Was that Gods will or the will of an organisation trying to preserve its self.
@VeniVidiVici
To your statement about the location of the Vatican during WWII and it's activities, Jefferson sums it up quite nicely.
Old, white bigoted men. Civilization would be better all if they all resigned.
And be replaced with mooslums perhaps? After all it is the religion of PIECE.
(peace)
They are all heaping still steaming piles of petrified crap.
They can't resign, what will they do? their only job skills are covering up for pedophiles and duping the gullible idiots of the world. That goes for all God fearing morons.
Hey GOD @!$%# you, I am more of a God than you. Your destruction is guaranteed when your maker (Man) no longer roams the planet.
Jon Bayner when you are laying on your death bed it will be God that you call to. As for you potty mouth clean it up. And you are not a god just and idiot that has no morals.
John, your hate affects no one or nothing except your internal organs. You're nobody.
"Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing." Luke 23:34
Yes, this even applies to John Bayner, or perhaps particularly to John.
RussinCA, really? That's why in 2005 two of the final candidates being considered were Cardinal Peter Turkson (Ghana) and Cardinal Francis Arinze (Nigeria).
And BTW BOTH of them are in the forefront again this time with Cardinal Turkson internationally being considered to front-runner.
John your opinion is less important than one of my farts .
thank you somedude -- couldn't have said it better!
Thank God for farts.
I interpret that as jesus asking father forgiveness for the low informatives. But as for the calculating sociopathic/psychopath well the lords prayer says forgive only those who are in debt.
Man, Ya have to feel sorry for that Baynor dude. Poor guy.
Save your pity for people who think like you.
Why? We need these Mullahs to take care of the other Mullahs?
It's not going to make much of a difference as to whom becomes the next pope, methinks. I'm guessing that the next one will either be from Africa or South America.
Michael,
The article suggested Cardinal Dolan of New York is a distant possibility, but I don't know. I have seen him a couple of times on TV, and it seems to me he has too good a sense of humor for the job of Pope. He is always cracking jokes, and I just can't envision a joking Pope, can you? The Bee Gees old song, I Started a Joke (that started the whole world laughing) comes to mind when I think of Cardinal Dolan as Pope. He seems like a nice enough guy, though.
The odds currently favor Cardinal Peter Turkson (Ghana). In the international press very little is being said about Cardinal Dolan.
Don't necessarily discount a pope with a sense of humor - case in point, John Paul I. Of course, he ended up taking the dirt nap after less than two months in office.
Before you get all giggly about Dolan, check out his background while he was Archbishop of Milwaukee. Payoffs to pedophile priests, guaranteed retirement and health care for them. He's sure a funny guy though. Likes hanging about with rich folks. What about that vow of poverty he took. A leader among the right wing conservative element of the RCC in the US
Most priests don't take a vow of poverty. Some ordered priests and monks do, but priests do not. Go figure.
If the Church in Rome wants to be ultra-conservative in their agenda, they'll choose a European Pope.
If they want to maintain a power base on their growing membership, then they have to be more progressive in choosing a Pope with close ties to Latin America, since that region has the most amount of Catholics.
As for an African Pope, I suspect they don't have the numbers in the Church to entertain that luxury of the choice of an African, currently.
I also don't see them choosing an American Pope any time soon. Reason is because much of the world is too suspicious of the motives of the world's remaining, progressive and industrial superpower that predominated the world in the last century, and so it would be unpopular for the Church to do so -- to pick an American to head them -- when it is trying to make itself look more cosmopolitan in it imagery when it presses its conservative political agenda in their global affairs.
He is too old and either his contemporaries made him step down or he did. Either way it doesn't matter the man isn't fit to run the church anymore. If he was "forced" those people are letting him exit with dignity, which is perfectly fine. If he is going out on his own terms he is doing it with dignity as well.
I'm not religious but his job being the face of his faith around the globe certainly isn't easy by any means. The toll it has taken on him is obvious.
Dignity? Pedophiles running amok and cover ups galore, but hey, at least it's done with dignity.
You gotta give him credit, he's the first pope in 400 years that gave two weeks notice. (All the others died in office.)
I heard that Obummer is going to recess-appoint himself to the position.
well the hat WOULD look good on the mantle next to the peace prize.
Who needs em? The messiah is already here, just ask a lib.
The supposed messiah you refer to past away nearly 2,000 years ago.
Jesus was a mere mortal, and it's time to stop the bull@!$%# that say's otherwise.
Who gives a @!$%# who the new dope is, HE will just continue that grand tradition of duping the stupid people of the planet.
If I said I believed in invisible man in the sky and he could grant my wishes, I don't think I would be judged sane.
What about an God that came to earth in the flesh to sacrifice himself to himself to create a loophole so that he could forgive humans for breaking a rule he also created.
That sounds rational right?
About as rational as a giant rock that existed from all time and exploded from God knows what, forming completely round objects that hover perfectly and emitted a ooze that over 1,000,ooo species came from, which no missing links EVER found. About as reasonable as that.
John- while not a staunch church going Catholic I take offense at your remarks. And believe me when I say that I do not agree with many of the churches teachings. I do however believe in God and Jesus. And I acknowledge and respect your right to not believe in him as well. Is there a need for you to be so vicious and angry? So what if people want to believe in an afterlife? How is it hurting you or your friend Brainiac? New flash people it's intolerance that's bad and you two are exhibiting that very thing. And btw it's "passed" not past.
dc,
"it's intolerance that's bad"
So true! But for many people these days "tolerance" means tolerating everything but Christianity. Didn't Jesus himself say something like, "When the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth"?
You point would be valid only if all religious people would keep their beliefs to themselves.
When the religious wackos start making laws based on THEIR religious beliefs, then it is my duty to speak up.
@ dc-823881
You believe without proof.
It is the highest form of hypocrisy for you, a religious person, to claim someone else is being intolerant.
It hurts people because every once in a while, one of your kind blows up a building, or tries to sink a ship, or flies airplanes into buildings.
@Timothy1Mil
FYI, the Catholic Church disputes neither the theory of the Big Bang nor Evolution. Your understanding of both is also laughably pathetic. Kindly project your Protestant pseudotheology elsewhere.
"Intelligent design is not science"
--Rev. George V. Coyne, Chair in Religious Philosophy at Syracuse University, former director of the Vatican Observatory.
Yet you believe that God 'existed for all time' and suddenly realized he was bored having ZERO to do for all of eternity (Jesus, God the Father, and the Holy Spirit aren't even enough for a poker game), so he snapped his fingers and BOOM everything just was?
You might want to google 'transitional fossils' tp find your missing link-there are lots of them.
Time to let yourself become more intelligent than the anonymous, bronze age goat humpers who's campfire stories you so desperately cling to.
BTW-do you know the Popes hat is stolen (like most of Christianity's beliefs) from a pagan fish God named Dagon? Not only does the entirety of Christianity not make any sense, it's not even original.
The Vatican Observatory?
What do they observe there, reruns of the Flintstones I presume.
John Bayner,
"What do they observe there, reruns of the Flintstones I presume."
Yes, the Catholic Church does have its own observatory, and it might surprise you even to find that many of the great scientists of the past were Catholics. Johannes Kepler himself was Catholic and even defended the Bible against charges that it was unscientific. Copernicus and Galileo were also Catholics. The Catholic Church is not the closed minded, anti-scientific monster most liberals believe it to be. That's just a myth, but one you obviously believe in. I find it amusing how many myths liberals and atheists believe in while all the time calling God a myth.
No offense to Catholics but I don't remember in the Bible Jesus voting for his Apostles...If I'm right he chose them by revelation not by a popular vote. His Apostles were fishermen for goodness sake not wealthy guys with gold rings and silly red hats!
(Sigh) Oh well, that's all that religion is nowadays: men making up their own rules to benefit themselves and not the people they're supposed to be watching over.
I used to spiritually devour the Bible and go to church and took alot out of my life and time to serve others but this is what has pushed me away from all religions.
But if this what makes people happy then more power to them!
Actually, after the death of Judas Iscariot, the remaining Apostles did in fact vote on his successor. Matthias beat Joseph Barsabbas for the spot.
You're correct that the Apostles chose Matthias as Judas' successor, but they did not do what Jesus asked. Jesus told them not to do anything until he sent the Holy Spirit. But the Apostles went ahead and chose a replacement for Judas at this time. We don't hear anything else of Matthias after this. Jesus them himself chose Paul to be the last Apostle.
Jesus has come a long way from preaching in the dirt. $$$$$
exactly pianomanLA, That is why I think a Pope should be married and in the arcdiosis of Los Angeles they just fired the only bishop that I know is married. And none of this people are fisherman,jajajaja, I take that back, they are fisherman but fisherman of money and gold. Bunch of back stubbing people whom want to be like Jesus and Jesus when he was tempted by the devil and he said, One does not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes forth from the mouth of God, furthermore he stated Again it is written you shall not put the Lord, your God to the test, Get away satan it is written The Lord, your God shall you worship and him alone shall you serve.
Where did Jesus tell them not to do anything?
Acts 1:4-5
"Don't leave Jerusalem" and "Don't get a replacement for Judas" are two very different commands. Either way, he sent the Holy Spirit to them on Pentecost (Acts chp. 2), long before Saul of Tarsus ever played any sort of role (he's introduced in Acts chp. 8).
PianoMan, Jesus said Simon I name you Peter (petra or rock) which I will build my church on. So Jesus did pick Peter as the first Pope. One time when the cardinals couldn't pick a suitable Pope they figured they would pick a really old devout man to buy time to pick a more suitable Pope. They figured He would not live very long. Well this man lived a very long time and was responsible for moderniseing the church. He started the second Vatican council. I believe it was Pope Pius.
I agree with you, PianoMan.
Like you, I used to be religious when I was younger, then I got a college education into the humanities and in world philosophies, and especially a solid educational foundation in the maths and sciences. The worship of God definitely isn't everything in this life, it's only a part of it -- and only if you believe in it, and only as a lifestyle option.
In this country nobody says you must worship in one religion or another -- or for the agnostic or atheists, active participation in no one religion at all, for that matter.
I imagine if this country was experiencing any incredible amount of civil unrest, widespread poverty, high unemployment, economy-crippling natural disasters, and was in a war zone with firefights everywhere and rising body counts, with a lack of opportunities to get an education beyond high school, then religion would become much more important in the minds of many. But until then, it's isn't everything -- unless you're a minister, or a person suffering from progressively debilitating chronic or terminal illnesses, or you're a devout and faith-filled, politically-active, right-wing cult member of some kind of "Christian Taliban," of course (and I'm sure that the U.S has more than a handful of zealots in each one of the larger congregations within its many thousands of churches).
parkerjoe -
That man was John XXIII, not Pius XII.
Perhaps La Cosa Nostra gave him a better offer. After all, running the RCC and racketeering are essentially the same job -- cover up what you're really doing, operating a shadow government with its own laws, subjugating women for your own purposes, preying on the innocence of the young all the while recruiting them into the cabal, dispensing opiates to the masses, and running a protection racket bilking the poor.
BOYS!!!!!
O noes! We don't need another embarrassment for America! Keep the dam pope in Europe or wherever.
Who cares.
1.2 Billion Catholics possibly
whats a billion...obama...spends that much before he gets out of bed...who cares...it don't matter...
How can the reporter say that the U.S. has a role? It's a small handful of American cult members, not the U.S. that will be voting for the next pope.
Anyway, according to Malachy, this next one will be the very last pope. After all the damage the church has done over the years (the Inquisition, the crusades, witchhunts, Nazi support), I say it's about time. Let them sell their immense assets and give to the poor. Funny how nuns have to live in poverty, but the pope and his merry band of cardinals live it up in unimaginable luxury. Take from the poor and give to the richest of the rich...
NOTE to CARDINALS: Try NOT to Go with a NAZI Pedophile THIS Time.
No matter who they choose, HE will likely have some skeletons of knowledge regarding young boys in his closet.
As Long as he doesn't have ACTUAL Skeletons of Young Boys...In his Closet
I do not know how the Roman Catholic Church is going to get around their legacy of bum-banditry swept-under-the-carpet for generations. Five hundred years ago part of the Reformation included measures to permit priests (clergymen) to marry. Demanding chastity and celibacy was deemed an unnecessary sacrifice; certainly if the demand is widely ignored something has to change.
And unnecessary now. The total cost of buggering young boys is more than even the Church
can pay. In N. America, young Catholics are sick of it and no firm stand saying: No more, get out
of the Church if that is your intention." These people are the flock."
Someone young, catholic and apolistic!
Wondering what his retirement "gift" will be.
Who will the college of pedophilia elect this time, some old cronie with no useful job skills.
Why don't they all just take the express route to the afterlife.
10,000,000 clergy and you focus on a few hundred that have committed heinous acts. What a winner you are.
More than a few thousand, I guess that doesn't matter to a brainwashed minion.
These so called people of God need to be held to the highest standards, especially since they are selling lies for money.
@ Timothy1Mil
Only because the 10,000,000 clergy continue to cover for the few hundred. And let's not forget the billion or so non-clergy who continue to fund their defense every time the drop a buck in the collection plate.
You're a bad, bad person, Timothy. But it is not too late for you to begin thinking for yourself.
A few hundred in recent years. Times that by the century and a half the good old boy's club protected their own. Then times that by the ones supporting sanctioned atrocities, like tearing off women's breasts, and you'll have a @!$%#load more than a few hundred naughty boys being boys.
I've never been able to place much trust in men who run around in skirts and wear lace toppings.
Not to fret Jim. I'm sure they feel the same way about you...........
I don't know, Jim. Seen some might strange stuff at Billy Bob's in Ft.Worth and Mickey Gilly's in Pasadena, TX.
Let me make sure I understand this correctly. From the article.
“But I don’t think it likely that any American will be elected pope for as long as the United States remains the world’s pre-eminent power," he added.
Alessandro Speciale, Vatican correspondent at Religious News Service, agreed with Weigel’s opinion, adding that “coming from the world’s only superpower could still be seen as a negative factor in a global church.”
What happened to revelation, inspiration, God's will? Not saying it should be someone from the US but if those who believe in the person being God's mouthpiece on earth, where they come from shouldn't matter. Sounds like man's views are weighing too much into this equation... Probably just stated the obvious
You're afraid they're exposing a chink in the pretence that there's a God?
Doug,
That is racist. The pope is not Asian <sarcasm>
Guess I asked for that :-)
Here we go.
God created the Big Bang. The Big Bang created the Universe. Man is separated from God by the Big Bang.
But then who created God?
Your theory invokes infinite regress.
Who created the big rock that atheists believe exploded to form the universe? You?
First, it wasn't a rock.
Second, we don't know. There are lots of theories but we aren't sure which, if any, are correct. We are actively looking for the answer tho.
@ Timothy
Even if it wasn't a big rock, any tested hypothesis that fits all the data is better than your God hypothesis, which has been debunked so many times it would be laughable if not for the possibility that you nut jobs would start flying airplanes into buildings again.
@Timothy1Mil
I sincerely hope you don't call yourself a Catholic, since your denial of science places you more with the Southern Baptist crowd.
"Today... new knowledge has led to the recognition of the theory of evolution as more than a hypothesis. It is indeed remarkable that this theory has been progressively accepted by researchers, following a series of discoveries in various fields of knowledge. The convergence, neither sought nor fabricated, of the results of work that was conducted independently is in itself a significant argument in favor of the theory. "
--John Paul II, 1996 message to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences
I must have missed all the scientific studies that disproved the existence of God. I should really keep up on these things!
By the way, don't blame Catholics for 9/11. Or even Muslims. Talk to a Muslim sometime. Most think 9/11 was pretty lame. It has alot more to do with geopolitics, which just happen to coincide with religious differences.
God is Asian? Who knew?
If there is a "God" and if he/she/it/they created the Big Bang, then, by extension, God created Kaley Cuoco. If so, I am truly a believer in the power of God.
My point is that we were created, and it all can be traced back to the Big Bang.
Something had to create the Big Bang, and calling that entity "God" makes sense from a scientific perspective.
God and science can co-exist; but the concept of a God that speaks directly to humans is not accurate. Human beings are not the center of the Universe. Not even close. Organized "Godspeak" religions are a source of tremendous problems, not solutions.
If solutions are to be implemented, it is necessary to remove the main obstacle: Godspeak religions.
Obama will snub the Papal transition of Power.
Obama will call on the spirit of Henry VIII, and name himself Supreme Ruler of the Holy Liberal Church of America.
Though BHO should get a pair of those red shoes. It would complete the clown theme that he is obviously going after.
What a stupid post. Why don't you get a life?
He has a life. Unfortunately for the rest of us, this is his life.
It is bad news American bishops/cardinals will have a strong say in who is th enext pope. Benedict and John Paul II have removed all of the liberal thinking popes and installed right-wing fundamentalists meaning we will get another Dark Ages patriachial male-dominated church.
Your post implies that there was a period when the church wasn't a dark age, patriarchal, male-dominated institution.
pdaohio.org: My sentiments exactly.
You're right, because of those right wing bishops, it's too bad the US won't be nominating the first-ever illegal-alien pope from Tijauna.
It's too bad Obama doesn't have any influence in the nomination process. I really wanted to see our first Islamic pope.
Not so Fiesty- -you're a complete moron.
Wasn't it the Catholic Church who coined the phrase. "I'm gonna tear him a new one"
I think the Pope is doing the right thing at his age and being able to retire and have some time to read and pray.
I could care less who the Society for the Protection of Pedophiles-Who-Wear-Robes elects as its lead pervert.
Nice to see him recognize he no longer can lead like he did in the past. As great as Pope John Paul was, he should have stepped down a few years ago before he passed away...
As an educated, non Catholic, I'd like to think that I could ignore what the all boy, woman hating, dark ages club is doing in Rome, buy unfortunately their tentacles reach out and effect lives everywhere. It doesn't matter who's pope. The message will be the same mindless spewing of hate.
Seems to me that all the hate filled bigotry on this board is coming from the left. No, NOTHING justifies hate and bigotry, even yours.
Couldn't agree more. I'm neutral, but it seems the left is quick to call names (like children) to anyone who doesn't agree with them.
I think an organization that actively works to shield pedophiles from justice deserves hatred.
Look how fast everyone turned on Penn State. The church did the same thing but on a larger scale.
Somebody's upset!
While I'm not a Catholic, I wouldn't lump the organization into a group where "the message will be the same mindless spewing of hate"
There are many groups out there, similarly, that are good examples of "Mindless spewing of hate" including those in the Middle East (Iran comes to mind, along with many of the other voices of the Mullahs and militant Islam")
I don't see how you take the modern Catholic church and put those labels on them.
Without Popes John XXIII and Paul VI, the massive wave of reforms that brought the Church into the 20th Century would not have happened. The door to women's rights was opened a few inches, interfaith dialogue started, and a generally more tolerant attitude was adopted. Under Benedict, many of those policies were reversed. The next Pope's legacy will be the choice between continuing those reforms and bringing the Church further into the modern era, or continuing Benedict's retraction of those reforms in the name of greater reliance on traditions.
Benedict was not supposed to live very long. He was supposed to be a momentary step backward, a little breathing room for the Church to consider what further reforms were necessary during a period of conservative pullback. But he was in power long enough to install a number of like-minded cardinals. Now there's a frightful battle between the forces of reform and reaction within the Church hierarchy. Whoever is selected as the next Pope will make a HUGE difference in its direction.
The Roman Catholic Church invokes Hell upon non-Christians. If you do not believe in their God, their Jesus, their Mary, and their rules you go straight to Hell.
If that is not a message of hate I do not know what is.
As I said, NOTHING justifies hate and bigotry...even hate and bigotry. A hateful bigot is a hateful bigot. One hateful bigot is no more or less than the other...just more hypocritical in their condemnation of those like them in thought and manner. Yes that is correct far left. There is little difference between you and the most zealous and rigid of religious fanatics. You both are filled with hate and bigotry for anyone that does not share your beliefs. We do not have to look far to see the proof. The Oval Office is far enough.
I don't see anything "leftist" about Schrodinger's post. That could just as easily have been said by Ayn Rand.
Ok John I will allow the benefit of the doubt...Hey Schrodinger, who did you vote for, yeah that's what I thought....sometimes all you need is a little life experience and some common sense...it does help to have a Master's...I do.
tothe, if you have ever heard an evangelist mock the cult that worships Jesus' mother, you'll know this hate is not solely coming from the left. BTW, you got some sublime hate and bigotry going on there. Congratulations. The hypocrites always scream the loudest.
The Integral - Catholic Myth #1: Catholics believe all non-Catholics go to hell.
From the Lumen Gentium, straight off the Vatican's web site.
But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Muslims, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind. Nor is God far distant from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, for it is He who gives to all men life and breath and all things,(127) and as Saviour wills that all men be saved.(128) Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience.(19*) Nor does Divine Providence deny the helps necessary for salvation to those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and with His grace strive to live a good life.
My wife's a Muslim. You think I'd belong to a religion that says my own wife is going straight to hell when she dies?
What you call hate is merely you being intolerant of other people's beliefs.
The church should follow the lead of other big business. If you don't have anyone qualified to be promoted from within, look outside for a suitable leader. I would try Careers Dot Com first, since I suspect they used Monster for some of the pedophile positions of the past.
Did you ever notice the resemblance of His Eminence to Darth Sidious aka Senator Palpatine? I know it's not likely but if they would make me the Pope, I could get the Church much closer to the 21st century while improving relations with other religions and increasing membership while ousting most of the pedo priests. Hit me up Cardinals.
Don't worry about all your other dreams.... just kind of stick to "It's not likely". Definately "not likely".
Pope Yoda?
You have to love the idiocy of MSNBC writers and the headlines they choose. What misleading "hyped" column heads. Unprecdented clout? Come on! Itally has 28 who will vote and the article goes on to say that America has little likelihood of picking a pope, nor will one likely come from the last remaining super power.
My goodness, NBC News is so disappointing. Please...find some educated, informed, and powerful editors and writers! Please!
yet here you are.
Yes, unfortunately I am.
Perhaps the good news articles comes from Hota and Cathy Lee and the drunken hour of television NBC thinks is good programming on television. Or wait...maybe it's the quality news with Savannah and Matt Lauer.
Or wait...where's the quality NBC news again?
No idea why I'm here. Wishful thinking that NBC News will have intelligent articles some day...my bad.
Ah NBC... just had to go there. Power, votes needed, popular opinion.... You all just don't seem to get it. Its not a democracy that can be swayed by trumped up polling numbers. You can't push some goofy life long free loader to the top with slanted stories and making them a celeberty. No buying the election. No promising everything and delivering nothing, no fund raising trips to Vegas, no photo ops.... Its a bit different. But you all keep writing your Burger King articles... and people will keep generating that ad revenue for you. "Holy clout" oh brother
Not real familiar with how picking a new pope works are you.
You cannot buy a Pope from an online auction. It doesn't work that way.
Ya Shellie... I'm pretty familiar with the process and the determining factors. Obviously you are not, and are just rambling along perpetuating unsubstantiated opinions with little real knowledge yourself. But, hey, thats ok.... you just keep right on living in your little world..... have a nice day.