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Pope Benedict XVI's abdication is unlikely to lead to big changes on major issues, experts say.
Some Catholic progressives view the abdication of Pope Benedict XVI as an opportunity for the church to usher in a more liberal era, but many Vatican watchers don't see big changes on the horizon.
NBC News' Vatican expert, George Weigel, said hot-button issues like women in the priesthood, contraception and abortion won't be game-changers in the selection of a successor because all the serious contenders will have the same solidly traditional positions.
"The notion that a papal transition is like getting a new president or governor or mayor is a false analogy," Weigel said.
Rocco Palmo, who writes the blog "Whispers in the Loggia," agrees.
"The teaching of the church is the teaching of the church and it's not a pope’s prerogative to change it," he said.
Weigel contends the new pope won't be under any serious pressure to loosen the doctrine because the factions of the church that "agitate these questions are dying."
Courtesy FutureChurch
Chris Schenk, executive director of FutureChurch, says there's the possibility of change with the selection of a new pope, but not everyone agrees.
"In the United States, 250,000 people came into the Catholic Church last Easter," he said. "Those people are not embracing 'Catholic Lite.' They're embracing the new Catholic evangelism."
Sister Chris Schenk, executive director of the progressive FutureChurch coalition, said her hope is that a progressive will break away from the pack and that one day soon there could be married priests or female deacons.
"Whether it happens in this next papacy or the one after that, I don't know, but I think it will happen," she said.
She pointed to Pope John XXIII, who was not expected to bring great change when he was elected in the 1958 but later opened the Second Vatican Council, which led to modern reforms.
Palmo, though, said Vatican II didn't alter the substance of church teachings, just the "articulation of it," such as allowing Mass to be said in the local language instead of Latin, and involving more lay people in the liturgy.
"There's style and there's substance, and when we're talking substance, no change," he said.
Weigel said that when the conclave begins, the papal candidates will likely be evaluated on how well they can handle a set of less polemical challenges:
— Europe's Catholic population is declining, and the College of Cardinals will be looking for a leader who can encourage "off-brand" charismatic renewal movements that are gaining strength outside the parishes, but without letting them "careen off into the bizarre," Weigel said.
— The new pope will need the tools to promote religious freedom internationally and confront efforts to equate "biblical morality" with intolerance, Weigel said.
— The Roman Curia, which is essentially the bureaucracy of the Holy See, is in desperate need of adminstrative reform, Weigel said. The cardinals could decide that should be the top priority and choose a new pope who can get the job done, "someone who can tackle it themselves or will understand they need to hire a cardinal to be secretary of state and make it work," he said.
Related:
Who's next? Eight contenders who could succeed Pope Benedict
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We need a pope in the image of God...an angry black woman.
"Some Catholic progressives view the abdication of Pope Benedict XVI as an opportunity for the church to usher in a more liberal era, but many Vatican watchers don't see big changes on the horizon."
Obviously, a pope elected by the College of Cardinals will be a person who appeals to the mainstream within the College of Cardinals, which is a fairly conservative group. That will never change.
However, do not lose sight of the fact that Pope Benedict XVI may be viewed by history as a revolutionary. By resigning for the purpose of retiring, he has established the precedent that the Papacy is the office and not the individual. People should not underestimate the significance of that.
So he knows how to quit when things get tough, but remember...
...he created all the Cardinals who will elect the next pope, and...
...he has created very few liberal cardinals.
His cardinals will vote for a copy of himself, and if any of his carbon copies become progressive, certain regions will freeze over.
1 Tim 3:2-12 explains why women are not to be in leadership roles in the church. BASH !
Yeah, keep the church as perverse as possible.
"A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;"
The list goes on (decided to see what Tim had to say). It would seem that a married man with children is being described as a "bishop". Guess the church decided to ignore this bit of their alleged holy book.
There is nothing in this quote as to why women can't be church leaders - just describes the qualities of the man and his wife and children.
Ephesians 4:11-12 states that a pastor is one of the five-fold ministry offices given to perfect the saints. The word translated "pastor" in this Scripture is the Greek word poimen, which means shepherd or supervisor. This word is one of only two ministry offices given by God that are grammatically masculine nouns with no feminine equivalent - the other word being Apostle. Each of the other offices are either neutral in gender and applicable to either sex (evangelist, teacher) or have specific masculine or feminine uses (prophet - male, prophetess - female). There is no such thing as a 'pastoress' or an 'apostless'. In other words - there are no female pastors or female apostles!.
The logic behind this distinction is clear when you examine the functions of these offices. Apostles are messengers sent by Christ to make disciples of the nations and to lay the foundation for local church congregations. The pastoral role is patterned after Jesus' role as our Chief Shepherd (1st Peter 5:4) and just like a shepherd, they are to feed, direct, heal, and protect the sheep (Jeremiah 3:15, Jeremiah 23:1-2). The performance of this role in seen in two ways - as shepherds and bishops (1st Peter 2:25). A shepherd guides and nurtures while a Bishop oversees the development of the flock. To fulfill the responsibilities of nurturing and overseeing the flock, a Pastor is equipped with a rod and a staff—a rod to discipline and correct and a staff to nurture and nudge in the right direction. The shepherd, bishop, pastor and overseer are all the same role.
The qualifications of a pastor are clearly delineated in 1st Timothy Chapter 3.
Specifically, 1st Timothy 3:2-4 states, "A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity"
We see here that a man in this role must be the husband of one wife. This clearly disqualifies any woman from functioning in this role. We also see the reason for God making this distinction in verse 5,"For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?"
A candidate for the pastoral office must first prove himself by demonstrating the ability to lead his household. Since we know that the man is the head of his family, this again eliminates the possibility of women serving as pastors (1st Corinthians 11:3, 1st Corinthians 11:7-9, Ephesians 5:33, 1st Timothy 2:12). Just as God has appointed man as the head of individual family units, God has also appointed man to lead the local church family of God.
The reason God makes these distinctions between the sexes is because the government of God is patriarchal. God is the Father of all spirits. Starting with the creation of Adam, God has continued to establish his authority in men. In evaluating the election of Abraham, we can see that God favored Abraham because he was a patriarch who had his house in order (Genesis 18:18-19). In fact, the last Scripture before the New Testament reads:
"Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse." Malachi 4:5-6
God has not only established a patriarchal order of authority, clearly He expects us to respect that and operate in it.
Can you say "delusional"?
"The reason God makes these distinctions between the sexes is because the government of God is patriarchal."
That's the most pathetic, delusional statement I've read so far today.
Assigning the gender of male to god gives him generative organs. Perhaps these were necessary to impregnate Mary? The concept of a holy father, a male, alone making the universe is absolutely ridiculous. The pagans with their many gods/goddesses made more sense.
As long as you recognize that your personal patriarchal authority ends at your doorstep, and you have NO authority in my life, I respect your view. I have no problem with anyone following their personal beliefs, as long as they keep them personal and in their own homes or places of worship. You have no right to regulate the lives of people outside your religion. You have no authority to legislate your particular dogma, at least not in this country. There was once a point in history where the Catholic church actually had 2 popes - one in Rome and one in Avignon - because the cardinals had to appease the French king as well as the other kings in Europe. This is an example of how badly things work out when we try to mix religion and politics. Perhaps you should try living in the Middle East or Africa right now, and see how well a theocracy works.
Back up and give the man some air. ThePopeispooped. It is now the time for YOUTH to wear St.Peter'sringadingding... What is more LIBERAL than pedophilia? If the church swapped man/man sex for female priests, it would be a vastly superior improvement to the savaged trust and rape that has dignified the man-cave of catholic theocracy so far. I vote for emasculation as a reasonable self sacrifice for all candidates for the priesthoody. Its only the decent thing to do. HackNstack. Its easier to submitwitnodick. Otherwise, it appears as nothing more than fakery and snaky oil and vain promises from Unkle Ernie.
Women priests is the only thing that will root out pedophiles and save the reputation of the Catholic Church
If you're not Catholic you have no business commenting about our religion. That's very rude! I as a Catholic don't meddle in the business of my Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, Hindu, and Atheist friends. Most of these comments are spurred on by 'know nothing' bigotry that is worn-out and one-sided.
You sound just like a Muslim.
"Most of these comments are spurred on by 'know nothing' bigotry that is worn-out and one-sided."
Oh, you mean just like Catholics.
Born and raised catholic and I actually read the bible. The whole thing. Which is why I'm agnostic now.
Steve... We non Catholics can say any damned thing we please. Your Church isn't paying any taxes that the rest do do provide police and fire protection for your building, the road repairs around it, the snow removal to keep it open to its parishioners, the water and sewer services for the toilets and fountains, storm water engineering for property runoff. Then there's that little cost of maintaining courts because of the pedophiles and their victims, hospitals, and health services for your religious but illegal immigrants. Then there are all those Catholic mouths to feed, and demand for food crops and other natural resources and the concerns for environmental depletion, and the poverty the Church is responsible for in Third World countries, so there can be more gold in Rome.
Obviously you've not heard of the Reformation and its reasons for being. People can read the Bible for themselves, or the newspaper for themselves, or the stock market reports for that matter for themselves, and think for themselves. What is the Church NOT providing to the world community at large is the question. They aren't providing solutions to modern problems, because they aren't producing minds that can accommodate modern issues, and thus they are a problem worthy of debate.
What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
"Celibate" (ha ha) priests and nuns have no business dictating sex to anyone by your logic.
As long as the Catholic Church insists on making secular law and being except from the same, we are going to comment about it.
Too bad the leaders of your cult don't follow your example but instead try to use our secular government to impose Catholic sharia law on everyone - women and gays in particular.
Steve,
Skrekk, rebuts your delusion well. The RCC consistantly inflicts religous interference in the lives non-Catholics. As a resident of Massachusetts I was utterly disgusted by the RCC's intervention in efforts to defeat Death with Dignity legislation. If this religious institution wants to enforce ITS doctrine on ITS adherents, it may do so from the pulpit. It does NOT, however, have the right to inflict its Medieval dogma on my choices for a dignified, painfree exit or my granddaughter reproductive choices.
Given that churches are free of taxation, my grandbabies and I are subsidizing a "lifestyle" that we find odius.
Nope, we just can't have any of those dirty, filthy, unclean, evil women in the priesthood. I mean, evil things might happen. My God, you never know, children might be molested!
In all seriousness though, we're having too much fun jousting at and for the pope - who cares really, let the old man retire, they'll choose whomever and go on with their agenda.
For REAL change the pew sitting Catholic has to get up and MAKE the change, a revolution of sorts..Rome ain't gonna do it.
Here is an interesting book if you want a little depth, "How good is good enough?" by Andy Stanley. Make up your own mind. Less than 100 pages and a pretty easy read.
"The new pope will need the tools to promote religious freedom internationally and confront efforts to equate "biblical morality" with intolerance"
In other words, the new pope will have to remove large sections of the bible that promote slavery and mass murder.
That's what they said about Pope John XXIII and he opened the Second Vatican Council that ushered in broad reforms. You never know what will happen until someone gets into office.
As a marginalized Catholic who walked away from the church, but not my faith, on the day Benedict was elected Pope, I remain hopeful that change will occur and one day my voice, my gender, and my views will be welcome in the church and treated as fully equal to that of any other baptized Catholic.
"my voice", "my gender", "my views" ........... Doesn't Toby Keith sing that song???
Sounds like the Pope is pooped.
I wonder if the HBO documentary "Mea Maxima Culpa" has anything to do with it? It was first broadcast on February 4th and Ratzinger quit only a few days later.
It'll be rebroadcast on HBO on the 15th at 5:30pm CST.
http://www.sfgate.com/tv/article/Mea-Maxima-Culpa-review-Devastating-4244455.php
Hmmm. ok, as a historian I am going to say this. The Catholic Church has weathered far more powerful storms since St. Peter trod the earth. Challenges will never cease but at least there are no Vikings or Huns, to deal with presently.
No Vikings or Huns.............just massive lawsuits for horrible crimes committed by the church, a rapidly aging and dwindling priesthood, and a vanishing membership outside of the 3rd world.
Might be worth the time to research the prophecy of the popes or Petrus Romanus. Interesting!
As I recall, there are over 4% of all US teachers tied up in sexual assult cases at any one time whereas there has been less than 1% of Catholic preist accused of molestation. Why aren't people leaving the public schools in droves to protect their children from all the evil teachers that seem to exist???
How many public school systems have actively conspired to cover up the horrible crimes of pedophiles by moving the pedophiles to new unsuspecting schools, and never once called the cops?
The Church is against women priests because Jesus was a man. Basically, that's what it boils down to. And priests do more than talk about God; they administer sacraments of the Church.
It's a foolish argument, of course, but so is the Church's opposition to contraception. Given the fact that the Church regards a fetus endowed with a "soul," it's logical for them to oppose abortion. But given that position, the Church should be one of the greatest boosters of condoms and the Pill. Yet it's not; it even tells the faithful it's a sin. What's their argument? "It's artificial, and it defeats the purposes of God." Now, you get this from a Pope who has a pace-maker - pretty damned artificial - and that pacemaker surely defeats the purposes of God, for without it, he'd be dead by now. So, artificial death control is good, but artificial birth control is bad. "Artificial!" You get this from a pope who wears gowns and dresses, but he was born naked; he flies around the world, yet he was born without wings; he can travel down roads at 70 mph, yet he was born without wheels. Pretty picky about what's artificial, wouldn't you say?
We're facing drastic climate change, and it may threaten life on earth, at least human life. Yet overpopulation is a significant part of our trashing of the planet, destruction of species, and exhaustion of resources, and for this, I accuse the Church of being one of the greatest enemies of the Earth today. They should embrace contraception and advocate it all over the world.
We may never have female Catholic priests, but there is no scriptural or logical reason to oppose contraception (and I'm not talking about abortion). Maybe someday the Church will stop worrying about some ethereal Paradise and start thinking about the only planet we live on. I suspect the real reason the Church doesn't bend on birth control is because for centuries it enticed some of the ablest young men into the priesthood by pointing to the poor husbands and fathers who died at an early age, trying to support a dozen kids. "See what 'lust' leads to?" But now, couples can couple all they want, without "paying" for it by suffering with too many births. Is it any wonder that few young men go into the priesthood these days? And all too many of them that do wind up being pedophiles, or consort with prostitutes on the sly.
"We may never have female Catholic priests, but there is no scriptural or logical reason to oppose contraception (and I'm not talking about abortion)."
When you have women tell you that their form of contraception is abortions. Abortions can be as easily cause by taking 5 pills of your run of the mill birthcontrol. One of the most horrific patients I ever had the displeasure of dealing with - had 7 abortions, never used condoms. And didnt bat an eyelash nor show any feeling for those unborn babies.
When you have places doing late abortions- 6 and 7months , telling young women that their baby is not a human being- I had a co-worker whom I met after she actually went through this.
Birth Control is not this magic pill, and it has serious medical side effects. A woman's body changes, and a high percentage may have difficulty conceiving once they come off the pill. A pap-smear is mandatory on any woman yearly to make sure their aren't any cellular changes to the cervix that could turn into cancerous lesions.
"Is it any wonder that few young men go into the priesthood these days?"
The reason the numbers in vocations have declined is because we live in a world of constant gratification, where money and pleasures ( being carnal or materialistic) rules the minds of not just young men but also women. This is a side effect if you will of many marriages from the 60' and 70's where providing to their children above and beyong and spoiling them because they came from childhoods that were marred by wars and were they had to make do with so little. Those children who are now in their 30's and 40's didnt care for religious life, because it asked them to give up on materialistic life. Interestingly enough, our vocations are rising in the last two- three years.
Some of these comments are truly ignorant and over the top. Although, it is not fashionable to be orthodox, Catholic. Conservative, and most of all faithful, the True Church, the Universal Catholic Church, cannot change, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it. There is no "Future Church" etc. There is only the "Church", the one given to St. Peter until the end of time. All these insults will do no good , because, since the beginning of time, it was man himself who was the criminal, it was not the church, it was man, who first killed his own brother, and then went on to keep committing the unspeakable. The Church is here and will stay here forever so that in pain and suffering, we have a place to go to , to seek forgiveness and seek the face of God, even though our garments should be like scarlet, we can be washed as white as snow...The True Church, is here to uphold these beliefs, it is here to help us get to heaven, not to help us go to hell, man himself puts himself there. Praise Be Jesus forever and forever. Glory to God in the Highest. Protect us oh Lord, and guide us to the safety of your Sacred Heart. amen
I am a 33 year old Practicing Roman Catholic. I for one, was happy with the new reforms that this pope brought forth. Too many hippies from the 70's decided that our church teachings just werent important enough to teach and uphold and people my age and younger are completely oblivious to some of the most important doctrines of the the faith they proclaim. I always ask when someone says "oh am catholic " Are you a practicing catholic? what church do you go to? " because unfortunately, Catholic has become just something people say, cause some time in the last 10 years they went to church and their parents took them to church and they did their first 3 sacraments. So, I for one, would welcome a Pope that will lead this church with loving firmness and continuing to not only grow and to be a more understanding church, but to also to be unwavering in what our doctrines are.
As long as church doesnt change n continues way it is it will keep loosing members, want more nuns n priests let them get married n have families other religions let leaders marry n yet they can still do their jobs.
Nelle, the expert is biased because he's Catholic? What better "expert" on a Catholic topic then someone who bothered to actually learn the Catholic faith.... unlike that FutureChurch nun. Married priest and female deacons... makes me wonder if she even bothered to learn about the religion she chose to commit the rest of her life to. Oh, but I bet she secretly vowed to change it from within. Good luck with that sister.
It is amazing that anyone who is not Roman Catholic would even be concerned about who is Pope. I think it shows how much power the faith has, even as the detractors denigrate it. I personally hope the next Pope continues Benedict XVI's changes in the Church to bring it back the traditions that made it great. No one is being forced to be Roman Catholic. If the rules of the faith are too hard for you, find a different faith or just don't have one. If you want women to lead your faith, there are many where they do. If you think all you need to to get to heaven (I assume you believe in it if you are concerned at all about religion.) is to be a Boy Scout and do a good deed each day, the Roman Catholic church is not for you.
He had to give up something for Lent, now didn't he?