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Subscribe to RSSAfter Tuesday's nuclear test, questions arose as to whether or not North Korea has advanced to the point where they could reach the continental U.S. with a missile.
An unapologetic North Korea declared Tuesday that it had conducted a test of a nuclear bomb after the detonation was detected by the U.S. Geological Survey.
"On February 12th... we successfully conducted a third underground nuclear test in the northern underground nuclear test site," the Daily NK reported, in a translation of Pyongyang's announcement on the state-run news agency, KCNA.
By conducting the test, the isolated authoritarian regime made good on a Jan. 24 pledge by North Korea's top military organ, the National Defense Commission, in further defiance of admonitions from the international community to cease and desist in its pursuit of nuclear weapons.
The test was met with condemnation from around the globe. The White House called it a "highly provocative act" that warrants "further swift and credible action from the international community." Chinese Foreign Minister Yang Jiechi said Beijing was "strongly dissatisfied and resolutely opposed" to the move by its neighbor and long-time Communist ally.
South Korea and Japan convened emergency meetings of their top national security officials, while the UN Security Council held an emergency meeting Tuesday, after which it promised to "begin work immediately" to draft a new resolution against the North.
The explosion was registered as a 5.1-magnitude seismic event by the USGS at 9:57 p.m. ET Monday. The U.S. Office of the Director of National Intelligence quickly judged that North Korea had "probably conducted an underground nuclear explosion" with a yield of "several kilotons."
In a statement, President Barack Obama said the test "undermines regional stability, violates North Korea's obligations under numerous United Nations Security Council resolutions, contravenes its [international] commitments … and increases the risk of proliferation" in the wake of what he described as a "ballistic missile launch" by North Korea on Dec. 12.
"North Korea's nuclear weapons and ballistic missile programs constitute a threat to U.S. national security and to international peace and security," Obama said.
U.S. officials have previously told NBC News that North Korea has up to a "few dozen" nuclear weapons that could be fitted on ballistic missiles, far more than had previously been believed.
Obama on Tuesday said that "the danger posed by North Korea's threatening activities warrants further swift and credible action by the international community," adding that the U.S. would work with the international community to "pursue firm action."
'Vile hostile acts'
In a tit-for-tat that has characterized a diplomatic stalemate for decades, North Korea blamed the United States for forcing its hand.
"This nuclear test was conducted as part of measures to safeguard the country’s security and independence in order to deal with the vile hostile acts of the United States, which violated our Republic’s legitimate right to peaceful satellite launches,” according to the KCNA report.
The comment refers UN Security Council Resolution 2087, passed after to Pyongyang's Dec. 12 rocket launch, heaping sanctions on previous sanctions against North Korea, further deepening the regime's isolation.
North Korean soldiers stand guard on the river bank of the North Korean town of Sinuiju, opposite the Chinese border city of Dandong on Tuesday.
The resolution called on North Korea to abandon its nuclear program and any weapons and allow verification; to conduct no more launches using ballistic missile technology; and to conduct no more nuclear tests.
U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon said the latest test was a "clear and grave violation."
Later, South Korea's Yonhap News Agency reported that North Korea threatened, citing an unidentified foreign ministry spokesman, to conduct more nuclear tests if the U.S. moves to penalize it for Tuesday's test.
At a disarmament forum in Geneva on Tuesday, a North Korean official said that his country would not change course in the current climate, Reuters reported.
"The U.S. and their followers are sadly mistaken if they miscalculate the DPRK would respect the entirely unreasonable resolutions against it. The DPRK will never bow to any resolutions," Jon Yong Ryong, first secretary of North Korea's mission in Geneva, told the Conference on Disarmament, referring to the Democratic People's Republic of Korea (DPRK).
South Korea's government said in a statement that Tuesday's nuclear test, "poses a direct challenge to the whole international community as well as an unacceptable threat to the peace and security of the Korean Peninsula and Northeast Asia."
It said the government would stand firm in that it "will not tolerate a nuclear North Korea" and added that it will "also accelerate expanding its military capability, including deploying at an early stage its extended-range missiles, currently being developed, which cover all of North Korea."
Major hostilities in the 1950-1953 Korean War ended with armistice, not a peace treaty. Today, North Korean forces and South Korean forces bolstered by about 28,000 U.S. troops remain faced off at the 38th parallel, where the Korean Peninsula was divided.
Between 2003 and 2007, North Korean took party in several rounds of the so-called "Six Party Talks" with South Korea, China, the United States, Russia and Japan, in an attempt to reverse Pyongyang's nuclear weapons development in return for fuel and progress towards normalization of relations. The talks went on hold and then fell apart for good in April 2009 and Pyongyang expelled UN inspectors from the country.
China 'humiliated'
A key unanswered question is what Beijing will do after North Korea's latest move. The long-time Communist ally and neighbor, which has strategic reasons to continue supporting the regime in Pyongyang, nonetheless expressed its strong opposition to the test.
"China has been humiliated," according to Andrei Lankov, a veteran analyst of North Korea based in Seoul's Kookmin Unversity. That could prompt a change in Beijing's approach, he said.
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A North Korean flag flies above the North Korean embassy in Beijing on Feb. 12.
"This time, China explicitly warned North Korea against conducting the test, but they were ignored," Landov added. "A Chinese government newspaper said two weeks ago that in the case of a nuclear test, China might significantly reduce its aid to North Korea."
China is a major source of aid to North Korea and key to keeping its decrepit economy afloat. China is also one of five permanent members of the UN Security Council with the power to veto sanctions.
The United States and other countries have urged China to put pressure on Pyongyang, but it remained to be seen how far Beijing would go to confront its old comrade.
"They are not happy about nuclear adventurism. At the same time though, a collapsing non-nuclear North Korea is far worse than a nuclear but stable North Korea," Lankov said.
North wants U.S. recognition
Professor Yan Xuetong, a top international security analyst at China's Tsinghua University, said "the key to the North Korean nuclear challenge is in the hands of the United States, not China."
"China is certainly opposed to North Korea's latest nuclear test and opposed to North Korea becoming a nuclear power, but the test was aimed at the Unite States with the aim of forcing the U.S. to normalize relations with North Korea, but if the U.S. doesn't want to play the game of trade-off, then there is not much that China can do," he said.
Yan, who closely follows government policy thinking on the issue, argued that "the role of economic sanctions is limited," suggesting China will not stop economic assistance to North Korea because of the latest test.
"What China should do is to act as bridge between North Korea and the United States so that they will agree to a trade-off, with the U.S. granting recognition to the North Korean government in exchange for it giving up its nuclear program," he said.
"If the U.S. views North Korea's nuclear threat with the same seriousness as it views Iran's nuclear threat, then there will be hope for solving the North Korea's nuclear problem," he said.
NBC News staff writers Ian Johnston, Eric Baculinao, John Newland and Arata Yamamoto contributed to this report.
Related:
Analysis: China fears alienating nuclear-armed Kim
N. Korea propaganda video shows US city in flames
Show of force: US, South Korea hold naval drills
This story was originally published on Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:11 PM EST
Leave a Comment:
What will Obama do? NOTHING. Obama doesn't understand the world and he will let North Korea kill tens of millions of people. Heck, they could hit San Francisco and Obama wouldn't care. He has his drones and he kills who he wants. That is the Chicago Way.
rober34... FYI, the 1st test was in 2006 under Bush... and what did he do? Nothing.
If you are going to bash Obama, then bash the idiot from Texas also.
Clearly you need to educate yourself before posting.
So what will Obama do?
the question is what brian boitano would do.
yes the first test was under bush (2006) however the last 2 test (2009 & 2013) were helped and supervised by the Iranian's ... since Iran can't test themselves because Israel will drop there nuclear bombs on them !
so, they have aided the north koreans and got there test done in exchange for rocket technologies that north korea needs to reach USA..
Well, what do you think he should do? Invade the country and start another forever-war?
mike... you are correct about the Iranian connection. This is a very complicated situation on many levels. Add China's hands off approach to the mix along with Israel feeling the need for self defense and we end up with a powder keg just waiting for the fuse to be lit.
There is no easy answer, but this is more than just an Obama or U.S. problem. It's going to take level heads across the board to avoid disaster in the long term.
The best country to deal with North Korea is China. The good news is they have already started to exert pressure on them. The worst thing would be for our leaders to try to resolve this directly with North Korea. That's what North Korea wants. The last thing they want is for China to be at odds with them. China has come a long way since the fifties. They have a great deal to lose if there is a hot war developing in their back yard. So nothing is exactly what we need to be doing right now with North Korea. I suspect we are very diplomatically involved with China to resolve this.
Another nuclear test by N. Korea. well thats just peachy.
Screw the gold; Brian Boitano will go on a slashing spree with his skates and get the Nobel Peace Prize.
Guys; I think Iran will strap their nukes to jihadi whales and they will beach themselves near every major port city....better kill all the whales.
Like Obama can stop them?
Does it hurt to even wake up in the morning?
Why is it always "what will Obama do?" or "What will the U.S. do?" Then, when we do get involved the world tells us to mind our own business.
Do you Obama haters honestly think the President of this country or ANY democratic country can just arbitrarily stop N. Korea from doing whatever they want to do? If so, you are far more stupid then any person has a right to be! You need to read up on what the President can do and what he can't do without the backing of the Congress and the Senate.. N. Korea is damn scary, there is no doubt they would LOVE to send one of their nuclear bombs right over here and something sure as hell needs to be done about it, but don't expect ONE man to do ANYTHING by himself, that's not the way it works and that's a damn good thing!
Oh, and for your edification, what did that slimy, crook Bush do when N. Korea tested their first nuclear bomb? Nothing, he and Cheney were far too busy ripping this country off with the help of Halliburton and, oh yes, starting a completely unnecessary war with that twit Hussein!
Why is US needed to do something about NK's nuclear test as some comments suggest. What has it got to do with US? Did those people ask US to do something when israel carries out occupation of Palestinian land and oppress their people?
US is not the policemen of the world, do not expect US to do something just because something happens in other parts of the world that may not to your liking.
Um, Henrich, have you, possibly, seen N. Korea's latest ' propaganda video' showing New York in FLAMES. Yes, Kim Jong-um hates us that much. However, others are right, we have to approach them through China. What saddens me is the N. Koreans have resorted to cannibalism because they are starving and sanctions will likely limit exported food. Pray for these people, they are not our enemy.
Shut up North Korea. You don't have oil. So who cares about your "nukular" stuff?
Rober34 - The intelligent question here is not, "What will Obama do?", but rather "What can Obama do?", and the answer is very much the same, nothing. This has been so for as long as North Korean has been in pursuit of nuclear weapons, which you may recall, they attained under the Bush Administration.
As long as China declines to take any action against the North Korean government, this latest "Dear Leader", will continue down the same road, but that will not lead to North Korean launching a strike at San Francisco.
The reset of the hysterics in your post reads more like something out a modern reprise of the story of "Chicken Little". One can almost hear you running about shouting "The sky is falling! The sky is falling!".
In short, your ideas are ridiculous.
rober34
Obama can start another war, this time with NK and China. Is that what you want? Your comment is a stupid one!
Yeah, those sanctions have not stopped them twice before. Time to end the vicious cycle!!!
Men so smart, these tests must be really good for the earth and they are not the first to do such tests
Rober34
Dude, get that tin-foil hat out of your head son. Its scary when folks like you keep breeding...get off the mountain dew and that Faux News crap
Of course the US government will do nothing about it. What would you want them to do? Start a nuclear war with N.Korea? So they have a few nukes... big deal... they had them for a while and the world has not yet ended. Get over it and mind your own business at home.
Okay all Obama haters.. what SHOULD President Obama do here? I am sure with your vast foreign policy experience you can tell us exactly what needs to be done. Should we NUKE N.Korea? How about if we start up the draft and enlist 1 million americans to invade North Korea? Should be we borrow another couple TRILLION to pay for a new war? Are you willing to increase your taxes to help pay for it? How about sending your sons/daughters to die in North Korea?
Please by all means, tell us exactly how President Obama can serve thee
Resign
Don't make us send Chuck over there!
Sorry, I take back the resign suggestion.......forgot that Joe the Clown would take over. My bad.
Games people play in defiance to the UN..Games meaning they will start WWIII in order to stop the sanctions. Open the doors to free trade and get closer to them.
This is China's problem! They made it, how about they act like a real world power and fix it?
" President Barack Obama described the test as a "highly provocative act."
What is he going to do about it?
craigcs
Why don't you run for President. I am 100% certain with your breadth of knowledge, that you can do even better than Bush.
The republican right will continue to insist that Iran is the greater threat.
Its the end of the world as we know it...and I feeel fiiiiiiineeeeee
What do you do with a bully on the playground? You hit him sooooo HARD he can't get back up! Because you know...if he gets back up he won't stop!
Henrich von Dorf
Why is US needed to do something about NK's nuclear test
-------------------------------------------------------------
because the US is the target.... their goal is to be able to strike the US mainland... once they are able to do so, they will constantly threaten to go to war unless they get what they want..
you can't be that naive can you?
...methinks North Korea has a magazine that contains more than 10 rounds...
It's a shame how callous man can be to their fellow man. This family running N. Korea is fine with watching their people starve in the name of their egos. And to make it worse all the other countries follow up with sanctions as punishment which only punishes that countries citizens. I read a lot of words the various leaders of countries said but I didn't once read any particular action. North Korean government is a master of the word, they know what words are and don't pay them any attention. Only when you show action will you get their attention.
"If the U.S. views North Korea's nuclear threat with the same seriousness as it views Iran's nuclear threat, then there will be hope for solving the North Korea's nuclear problem," he said.
And how is that Iran thing going for the US?
The only thing O'Bagger will do is bend over and let the Koreas do him "Gangum style".......
I say let them start a neuclear war. World could use a fresh start. Maybe if we put all the smart people in a vault with all the history of the world then maybe after 50 or so years they can come out and see what the radiation levels are like and judge when it would be appropriate for human civilization to start back up again.
Lord knows we botched this try at it.
As i get older, I increasingly question the usefulness of the UN....the amount of finger waving they've done over the last 10 years should have brought world peace by now....
I see one military option to this, and that is assassination. But a carefully executed assassination. I'm sure North Korea is a tough nut to crack, but the technology the US has nowadays is insane. They actually have robotic "bugs" that can be controlled remotely and "sting" a target with a solution that induces a heart attack. None traceable.
Let's get to work and take this nut job in Korea out before he gets any more steam.
I'm glad I don't live in a large city...
i'm sure the arrogant one will step up to the plate with north korea...he will strike out ...then take the mound and throw money with both hands...
I find it rather humorous that rober34 protest to know so much about the world but probably hasn't held a position of power except when he made shift supervisor at his day job.
Tell Obama that N. Korea is causing Global Warming with their nuke tests, then maybe he'll do something about it...
Kim Jung Un is just lucky he's not building a pipeline or anything like that. That would've caused the Democrats to declare war on N. Korea!
D.man,
The biggest problem with the UN is the veto power of any permanent security council member.
How does this paradise of a hell hole have nuclear weapons but Iran does not? I wonder if Korea and their wonderful leader (reminds of somewhere) is the litmus test for Zionists/ Elitist aggression response or distraction? If it isn't their neighbor who cares, or what? I don't understand this one. Also there are more than several countries in Europe that aren't considered nuclear but they have nuclear booms too? Just read about that one too. So the enemy of my enemy is my friend concept is far more reaching than I realized? Better stay fiends then right?
Anybody have an answer...do tell! GOD BLESS YOU ALL and big thank you Dr. Ben Carson!
Lots of condemnation going on...not much else. This is probably a good thing. I believe in non-intervention, with a swift and severe response (turning an entire country to rubble) in the event we are ever attacked. This policy should be a sufficient deterrent without having to preemptively attack anyone.
I don't like Obama, but this has NOTHING to do with him. We need to keep our noses clean. We have ENOUGH wars and MORE THAN ENOUGH debt to pass around. Until a missile comes within a yard of our coast, we do NOTHING. N. Korea is not a sound threat. They would get annihlated. But knowing how Obama works, if needed, he will send a drone or two over and kill 200 civilians to the 1 bad guy.
Time to perform a test of our own. We need to set up modified Patriot Missiles in South Korea to see if they can knock down North Korea's next ballistic missile. Hey, we are only running a test.
North Korea, if you had oil(looking at you Iran) you would be in a lot of trouble for this. Since you dont we will just scold you, and let you go about your business.
Everyone's asking what would Odumbo/China/UN sanctions do?
The REAL question is...what would Ted Nugent do?!?!
North Korea is like a spoiled brat with authority issues.
Parent (The world community): OK North Korea, play nice today, don't shoot that rocket into space.....
NK: OK, I won't (fingers crossed behind back) 3...2...1....WHOOSH!!!
Parent: Now NK, that wasn't nice. Don't do it again.
NK: OK, I won't......KAAA-BOOOOM!!!
Parent: NK, WHAT WAS THAT???
NK: Oh nothing parent...I....uhhhhh.....just knocked over something.
Parent: Oh, OK. Be more careful and don't let it happen again.
NK: OK parent. I will (fingers crossed behind back again) KAAA-BOOOM!!!
Parent: OMG NK, did you knock something over again? What did I tell you about that?
NK: Oh, I forgot parent, sorry.
Parent: If it happens again I'm going to have to reduce your allowance!
NK: OK parent, I won't (fingers crossed) WHOOOSH!!
Parent: OK NK, what did you do now?
NK: I just launched a satellite into space. It's nothing really.
Parent: Didn't we tell you not to do that?
NK: I don't remember parent, sorry! KAAAAAAAAA----BOOOOOOOOOM!!!!
Parent: Now NK, you have to stop knocking things over. The neighbors are complaining about the noise.
NK: ***mumbles under breath "screw the neighbors...whatta they gonna do?***
I fail to see the relevance of your comment. Stating that Bush sucked is in no way a defense for how bad Obama sucks. They both suck equally.
Obama is currently the president. He's the person to bash right now. There is no requirement to follow through and bash all of the other presidents who sucked every time we bash the current one. Every one that has been president in my life time sucked.
And all of this means nothing.
The End
It is not a legitimate question to ask "What will Obama do?" as to ask, "What CAN Obama do?" Every President since Truman has wrestled with the question of what do do about North Korea and every single one --- Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Clinton, GHW Bush, BW Bush, and now Obama --- has come up dry. But it is very comforting to see that there are so many people on NV that are much smarter than these men and all their advisors.
The problem is that NK holds all the aces in a game of brinkmanship that they have been very carefully playing since 1953. If any country --- the USA, Japan, South Korea, and China or the UN --- makes a serious enough mis-step, a war will result that will immediately devastate South Korean and all US and ROKA forces that are forward-deployed (often called "tripwire" or "sacrificial" forces.)
Remember the recent sinking of the state-of-the-art anti-submarine warfare corevette Chongnan which was on patrol on alert in contested waters in the Yellow Sea. We and South Korea made no response because there was no response to make.
In the late 1960's, I worked as a North Korean intelligence analyst in the Far Eastern Watch Center and watched first-hand as both the political minds in DC and in the Far East along with the US 5th Air Force military minds tried to come up with some response to a NK shootdown of a Navy EC-121 90nm out over the Sea of Japan. All hands were lost. I had some skin in the game because I had friends on that aircraft. But that meant nothing --- no one ever came up with any sort of in-kind response except a nice tombstone at Arlington.
The problem, however, is that with every provocative action, the North Koreans move closer and closer to that mis-step that ignites a full all-out war. And it could just as easily be a mis-step by China as one by the USA.
As a couple of posters noted, the cooperation between Iran and North Korea is accelerating the pace of NK missile and nuclear activities. North Korea trades huge expertise in the hardening of military targets and plutonium and some expertise in nuclear weapons to Iran in return for solid fueled rocket and guidance system technology. At this point Pentagon planners have to start assuming that every thing North Korea has, Iran will soon have, and vice versa.
While the recent satellite launch did constitute any sort of threat against the USA, it should be noted that one part of the launch should have been taken very seriously by Pentagon planners. Generally a satellite launch is considered about half as hard as a ICBM launch. A missile launch essentially shoots through a single window into orbit with onjly fine adjustments thereafter. An ICBM launch shoots through two windows --- one near launch and one as the warhead(s) re-enter the lower atmosphere and guide to a specific target. In past missile launches, NK has fired over Japan to the East into SSO polar orbit. The last launch was to the SSW over open ocean. This meant that the third stage had to perform a complicated s-turn in order to end up going to the east into the proper SSO orbit. This s-turn demonstrated a mature ability to "thread the needle" for the terminal part of an ICBM flight path. This technology could well havee come from Iran.
Both Iran and North Korea know well that out military has been and still is over-deployed. Too many combat tours have worn out both men and equipment. The Pentagon has long given up on the "Two Wars" military plan. Even one hot war could well be enough to overtax weakened US military capabilities. They also know that if they started two wars roughly simultaneously (such as Germany and Japan in WWII) that we would require 4-6 years to ramp up the draft and re-institute the cadre system in the military. That's a long time these days.
Obama ( along with Gates and Panetta) have been struggling to rescue the military from the quagmire of Iraq and Afghanistan so that they can at least be well enough prepared to fight "The Next One." This is a major reason why there has been minimal "participation" in Libya and Syria. Nut they are counting on The Next One being a single conflict.
@rober34
I think the others have more than successfully pointed out the sheer retardedness of your comment, so I don't feel the need to add to it, other than to suggest you never post here again if you expect to keep any self respect.
It blows my mind that all of you AMERICANS are so trashy as to bash the President. He won, we voted him in. DEAL WITH IT. North Korea has been a problem for decades and decades. China will deal with them and the UN. The sad thing is that the people in that country are innocent and dying because of their crazy leader, some even resorting to cannibalism due to STARVING. Those of you on here bashing the President are losers and need to wise up. We are all Americans. We should stand together...
To the person that brought Ted Nugent into the comments...you are really a sorry pos.
The best thing the United States (and the world) can do at the moment is to operate a clandestine war. The North Korean people are cut off from the outside and many of them have bought the line from the government that they are one of the most prosperous and successful nations in the world. We need to crack the information curtain and let the North Korean people know just how screwed they really are!
And how many Iranians were partaking in the test/observing. And when they get enough material to build bombs, they will have to do very little, if any testing, of warheads because NK will have already done it for them under their cooperation agreement. Iran gives the missile technology and NK gives them warhead technology.
Ask yourself, just how is that Mr. Obama will determine that Iran has decided to go forward with constructing nukes? Is he a mind reader? And what, if anything is he doing to address their cooperation with NK and the resulting expansion of the capabilities and technology of both NK and Iran? Oh, I forgot, he was going to sit down, face to face, with them and all would be resolved. While at the same time he announces plans to weaken and eliminate some of our defenses. Brilliant!
I wonder how many of you would blame Obama if the Pope sharted in the woods? What a bunch of idiots!
Hahaha good one NBC, im quiverin' in me boots!
How can i put this...they may have a nuclear "warhead" but they severely lack the proper technology to even send one of these things close to us (Yes, i know that they have shot a rocket, whoohoo). Now im not saying that its a good thing that it might crash down on some unsuspecting country far before it reaches us, which would be equally devastating since we are all humans, but even if it did come "close" we have (actually kind of old) technology that would zap that thing until its contents are rendered inert then we would either "laze" it, "shoot" it down, or let it crash into the ocean. Need a new home Mr. anemone?
In short, they may have found a way to make the "gun powder", but they have a long way to go to figure out on how to launch that bottle rocket, let alone launch it accurately.
67 responses and so very few answers, with no solutions. Just a blame game, with guesses at what is really happening in the Pentagon and what China will do, since that nation's nose has been tweaked, too.
America knows China is North Korea's lifeline, so maybe it is fitting to see if China is willing to complete what the UN has been pressing for years, real sanctions unilaterally.
Not one of us has the information that our President has, yet we see so many armchair quarterbacks here, with finger pointing immunity. Not one of us knows what President Bush or Obama knows! If we knew what was going on behind the scenes, most of us would be quite delighted to see that closed door negotiations and our UN are actually functioning as designed in providing oversight to nuclear reduction programs all over the world. Our own government had better oversight in the Middle East until Brewster Jennings, a nuclear watchdog CIA Operation, was outed by Cheney and Bush, along with Valerie Plame, the CIA operative, whose husband, our Middle East Ambassador, offered testimony calling the Bush lies about Iraq and Yellow cake Uranium what they were, lies. Most of us accept this was treason! And most of us knew the outing of Valerie Plame, forcing her to leave the agency, and exposing many field agents to possible death, was the Bush White House retribution to her Ambassador husbands' resolution to tell us the truth.
I only remind us of the past, as it should be remembered we had operations to monitor the nuclear Middle East, as I am sure we have operations, whether it is provided by us, or our UN friends, to monitor the operations in North Korea.
The solutions are few. We can starve North Korea out, causing the country to implode, and the strife could cause a revolution amongst its citizenry, hoping for China to do its part in tightening the supply lines. Or we can attack the program itself. The whole nation of North Korea has been trained for war, so any attack upon North Korea will have ramifications for our ally in the area, which is South Korea.
The question, as always, is what is the most prudent action to take for the most peaceful solution. The warhawks and the Neo-Cons see war as the answer to every conflict, while the UN seeks peaceful measures and uses force as a last resort. Remember when the UN called for the solution in the Balkans and the UN forces, led by Clinton's military, and the UN forces, went in and hunted down the leadership and stopped further atrocities?
We, citizens, elect our representatives for the intelligence they show us during their campaigns, and expect them to live up to the promises they make. The opposition sometimes tries to blacken the eye of the winners. But our system works, with all the whining and all the complaints we citizens blog about. I wish more citizens would take the time and look at the party they choose to support, and see the actual voting records of those we seek to re-elect.
A party that promises to strive to do what it promises , but fails because the opposition refuses to allow it to pass, does not make the party in power less viable. Our attentions must automatically be directed toward eliminating the stumbling block the offending party represents to the solutions we seek!
Where George Bush failed in the Middle East, Obama completed the job, and should not be villified for doing so. Endless wars do not create friendships. The fewer adversaries we have allow us to concentrate more attention to the worst threats. Spreading our forces too thin is always a mistake, and we see what cost these wars have done to our economy and our jobs at home, while our attentions were mis-directed.
For now, we recognize North Korea (and Iran) as a major threat, and we certainly have multiple operational plans in place to use when the time calls for action. We all must also note that since China has been limiting the amount of sanctions to North Korea, that the actions by the world community are weakened. Whether by design, or by incompetence, China has been the major stumbling block to reigning in the North Korean war machine.
Let us hope China will act and tighten the noose on the New Leadership in North Korea, or grave consequences could occur.
Wars are not instantaneous operations, thought up in a few minutes, by a few zealots. They take years and decades of consideration and planning and for gathering all the information to craft a retaliatory plan. Be patient! Our nation stands ready, with the world's leading military machine!
Sadly, our citizens have much need for a return to homeland rebuilding, and jobs, and better wages and living conditions that wars stop us from providing. Maybe the price we pay for the wars we make, and the long term plans of the world opposition to our nation, in retaliation for the wars we have entertained, without the world community behind us, is the loss of our own infra-structure, long ignored!
Let our future plans for North Korea be dependent upon the actions of China, who has just had her nose tweaked by her ally, North Korea. In the meantime, shouldn't our nation also look inward to our own strife and seek resolution to that, without embarking on a new way to spend more capital we are forced to borrow to pay for in the bloodlust for new war?
Is there anyone among us, who believes that North Korea would attack us, without full knowledge of the ramifications and the price they would have to pay in the retaliation they would certainly earn?
Sometimes, plans are what stop wars. Not the actual implementation of those plans, but the fact that they exist do. We cannot kill enough dictators without us being one! Can we see this? Or does it matter?
Folks with hate in their hearts will never win the peace. It is not a possible outcome. Only peace shall reign when peaceful intentions are rewarded with disarmament, through negotiation, and agreement, never war!
Be pleased our wars are winding down, and a few years of peace may turn the tide of world events, before the Neo-Cons convince us, with hate in their hearts, that war is the only solution, as they always do. And the pendulum swings one more time.
Will only the death of our planet resolve our differences? Is this the fate of mankind? Let us hope we surivive, due to the lessons we should have learned from the past! War is death. War is the last solution. Why must it always be the first to be discusssed?
I believe it was Jesse Ventura who said it best, "America doesn't screw with nations that have nukes, only the ones without them." Why are we allowed to keep ours, while telling the rest of the world they are too unstable?
So blaming Bush for everything...good
Blaming Obama for anything...bad
Got it.
Well, they DID buy the HOPE b.s. twice, so...
Were North Korea or Iran ever to launch a nuclear attack on the US, our retaliation would be sufficient to turn their countries into radioactive glass. The leaders of these countries have to know this. One would hope that they are sane enough to care. If so, their goal is not to unleash an unprovoked attack on us but rather to deter us from attacking them. Considering recent world history, their concern about an attack can be seen as somewhat paranoid, but perhaps not excessively so.
North Korea especially has a highly repressive government, and many both inside and outside of Iran believe that their last election was stolen via significant voter fraud. I do not believe that such governments can forever maintain control of their populaces. The aim of the rest of the world, therefore, should be to penetrate the curtain of propaganda these governments rely on to keep their populace in check and hasten the day that they rise up against their dictatorial rulers. In the meantime, we should also be working to maintain our technological superiority and improve our missle defense systems, in case these leaders are not sane after all.
"The REAL question is...what would Ted Nugent do?!?!"
The most idiotic comment ever made........The world is a dumber place for your comment
coasteryder
Maybe someday you will grow up and understand math.......If your retirement count is halved........U can fix that in 4 years? I know you do not understand terms such as "debt to income ratio", "disposable income" and "equity"......These are the reasons the economy is in shambles and yes.... it is directly related to the 07' financial crisis.......I'm sorry you do not understand very simple economics.....Personally I think you are a moron
Please tell....How do you restore 1.7 trillion in equity to the middle class in four years?....You know the USA's largest consumer......
Obama-haters and the otherwise irrational. Not to diminish the significance of this event, but these little rogue states like Iran and North Korean who so desperately want to be world players have been for the past 30 years posturing.
Think about Iran and it's sad little monkey going into orbit, or NK with their countless rocket launches. It's all about face and puffing up. The danger is that their immaturity is akin to pouting children playing with guns to impress the big kids then bam! something goes wrong.
Its a global game of chicken and the last thing we of civilized states need to do is overreact. We've got a few more steps to go before we annihilate the world because of North Korea and Iran.
See this is why in the 60's and 70's western gov'ts preferred a policy of destabilization through the assassination of leaders and the promulgating of discord amongst our enemies. Kept are wars cold and contained and proxy with the Soviets.... and before the purists get all Walter Cronkite.... that was sarcasm.
Bottom line, Obama should do nothing that legitimizes NK. Let the chubby little dictator with the effed-up hair cut posture to his people while the rest of the world organizes a proper response. And it is a world issue. If NK were to ever launch and attack on anybody, that would be a game over type situation.
Chris-749391
Post 1.61
Very well thought out response and infomative on several levels. No bashing and no BS.... very well played Sir!
Indeed Chris-749391... indeed, one thing for sure... if this war is all out we will see job posters in Lockheed-Martin, Raytheon, etc,etc.
I say, ICBMs for any country who wants them & guns for all Americans who want them.
Let N. Korea & Iran have their nukes. The gun nuts over here can fight N. Korea/Iran off with their semi-auto AR-15s. Why are you laughing? I think it would work out fine.
Why does the U.S. constantly have to be the police of the world? If N. Korea and/or Iran end up with nukes & the ability to drop them on us, then they do. What's the big deal? Those 2 countries having nukes will make the world a more exciting place.
They said yesterday on the news that Obama wants to reduce our nuclear arsenal from 1,500+ down to 1,000. Maybe Obama can take those 500 nukes he wants to eliminate & give 250 to N. Korea & the other 250 to Iran to show them that we aren't the bad guys & that we're actually friendly & generous. I'm sure both countries would love us then. It would be a win/win/win situation.
SO HA HA....let's see if Obummer has the testicals to take away THEIR guns
.....what a joke this guy is.
Republicans are a bigger threat to this country and our children's futures than N. Korea and Iran combined.
MacArthur was right! We should have nuked them when we had the chance. The Chinese have got to be kicking themselves in the arse over this stuff.
@Peter...ever heard of sarcasm?
Peter...Dick...similar names if you understand sarcasm. If the jock fits....
You wouldn't understand now that my comment made the world dumber and apparently made you completely stupid!
What did Bush do in 2006? NOTHING.
What did Clinton do to Bin Laden when he bombed the US Cole, Nothing! and look what happened later on when Bin Laden attack the towers! I think Bush had enough on his hands with the wars already in place!
Now that North Korea has crossed the "line" and done a third nuclear test, regardless of threats and sanctions, exactly what does the world , or more specifically the U.N. and United States plan on doing?
Because obviously North Korea has no plans to stop its nuclear program and it isn't afraid of anything the outside world can do to it. It's leader after all, has been declared a God, people worship him as God and everyone around him, no doubt has never thought to defy him as God.So, exactly how does one convince a God, to listen to mere mortals making threats, from outside this God's world, and kingdom?
After all, the U.N. has its own protocol's which forbid it to interfere in a sovereign nation's internal affairs unless it asks for help.As the world has discovered. Some might recall Rwanda, when U.N. peacekeepers stood by and about a million Tutsi men,women and children were being slaughtered in 1994 during a 90 day period. That is just one example. So more sanctions it will be right? Because what else are they going to do? There is nothing, our threats are hollow, even as North Korea's people are starving to death.
A leader must actually care about his people. And this "God" thinks he can destroy the United States already. Like the little dog, who thinks it can kill the massive Rottweiler.Attitude is everything, forget reality. However, do keep an eye out for the pesky little ones.Because even little dogs, have sharp teeth and can strike in a tender spot when least expected. Leaving a surprising amount of damage where one never thought possible.There is a reason some people refer to them as little rats. No insult intended to any dogs of course!
When will the world learn. Sanctions do not work. Whether you're talking about Korea, Iran, Syria or any other rogue nation, the rulers just continue their jet-set lifestyle while their citizens become weaker and less able to exert pressure on them. Wars do not work. Nations leaders don't give a damn about how many of their people they get killed. Just look at George Bush. His kids were out partying and getting DUIs while our sons and daughters were dying. Almost any nation on earth can keep a war going for 100 years and all the while their leaders continue to live like kings. It's time for a new tactic, i.e. strategic operations aimed at cutting the head off the snake. Yes a new head will appear, and then you cut that head off. No boots on the ground except for when it's time for a Bin Laden type raid. It's less costly than any other option, and by the time you cut a few hundred heads off the snake they'll start finding fewer and fewer people wanting the job. Level the capitals of these nations and put all resources into killing the leader. No limited actions and no surrenders accepted. Let the leaders of all nations understand that it's their lives and the lives of their families that are on the chopping block.
"What did Clinton do to Bin Laden when he bombed the US Cole, Nothing!"
No -- Clinton tried to get Bin Laden but missed. And conservatives did conservatives do --- since they didn't have any answers, what they always do -- they whined, bitched, complained, moaned and groaned.
Charlie-1915998
I don't think I could have said it any better. I would only had "they enjoy saying they are the party of responsibility, when in reality, the point the finger of blame at everyone but themselves"
"they enjoy saying they are the party of responsibility, when in reality, the point the finger of blame at everyone but themselves"
Republicans have been whining and pointing figures for the last 37 years or longer. Whenever I hear them say “Stop blaming Bush” I have to chuckle. From 1976 to 1992 they whined and cried, moan and groaned and complained and complained more and bitched, carried on and on and blamed President Carter of everything wrong in the entire universe. Then from 1992 to 2008 they whined and cried, moan and groaned and complained and complained more and bitched, carried on and on and blamed President Clinton for everything that was wrong in the entire universe.
What did O'Carter do to Iran. Hid in the corner and Pizzed his pants, like O'Dope has a few times!
I love the blame game its so much fun. I didn't do it he did it, no I didn't he did it, well he didn't do anything, well neither did he. Mom Jack took my gum, no I didn't, yes you did! sniff sniff boo hoo hoo cry like a little baby. All you freaking party mongers are all the same lets point fingers instead of saying well crap what are WE going to do to solve this problem. I think all you party mongers forget we are ALL Americans and should try to work towards the same outcome! Freaking 2 year old fools!!!!!
lee - do you remember just how many of those hostages were killed by Iran? DO you remember Reagan waiting and lettting the hostages sit and stew unjtil until he took office to have them released so that it would apppear that he did the heavy lifting??
He did try and he did fail. And conservatives accused him of trying to distract the country from the Lewinsky scandal. There was no appetite to go after bin Laden any more than that. If anything, conservatives aided bin Laden. Both in the 80's with CIA training to repel the Soviets and again in the 90's by detracting attempts to get him. Then he got us and he got us good. It took us over a decade and over a trillion dollars to undo that mistake.
So I don't blame Obama for doing nothing. Nothing is probably the better thing to do.
Clinton was out of office 2 months after the Cole. When the Cole was hit, people were not attributing the attack to Bin laden at that time. The attackers of the Cole were brought to justice and there is no direct proof connecting Bin Laden to the Cole.
I guess you should ask what Bush did to get Bin Laden. In the 8 months prior to 9/11, Bush didn't even mention Bin Laden, despite warnings from people in the Clinton administration and Russia. Bush's excuse for letting 9/11 happen is that was simply "a failure to connect the dots". The big problem is the connected dots point to an inside job, involving Cheney, NORAD, the Mossad and CIA.
Lee,
You should stop reading those Texas history texts and get a real education. Reagan took the credit, but Carter did the deal.
@chris,
In answer to "what did Clinton do?" Clinton tried to destroy two al-Quaeda training camps, knowing that bin Laden was living at one of them. The problem was that the military required in excess of 26 hours to launch the strikes because of a bulky chain-of-command that literally required scores of sign-offs. By the time the Tomahawks arrived, bin Laden had left. What Clinton did was to immediately order the re-organization of the military chain-of-command so that only fail-safe actions were required between a Presidential order and its execution. This cut the time down to something less than 20 minutes (and presumably around 5 minutes.) While another attempt did not present itself to Clinton and Cheney/Bush called off the bin Laden hunt temporarily, that is "what Clinton did."
And Obama availed himself of this ability even though W did not. Drones and missile strikes and covert forces operations have eliminated 24 of the top 26 al-Quaeda leaders, not including an additional 9 that were promoted into leadership and then killed. Obama got bin Laden. And not a single American life was lost in this process.
BTW: The "deal" that Reagan did with Iran was to trade Hawk missile spares and upgrades and C-140 and fighter spares in return for serious cash and a promise to hold the hostages until after the election was over. The hostages were released on inauguration day. And the cash, at least what North and Poindexter did not steal, was used to illegally fund the Contras to buy cocaine to be sold in the US to generate even more funds to fight the Sandinistas. GHW Bush ran the operation and Jeb Bush was the actual "bag man" who handled the money. Carter was not really involved in any way.
Post of the day !
Ronald, are you really so naive as to believe Reagan had any control over the hostages in Iran? By the way, what does any of this have to do with North Korea?
When N. Korea finally gets to the point where it could actually launch a nuke that would come anywhere close to the US, there will be a strike so severe on that country that the little they have left (rice paddies and crumbling buildings) will be completely erased from this world.
To answer your questions of why Bush and Obama did nothing - because we already have thousands of American soldiers on the demarc line between S. and N. Korea. Because we have naval and air strength in the region, because with N. Korea it is nothing more than pushing a button.
Americans need to get a little smarter. Have we ever had a problem dropping bombs on people? So why haven't we bombed N. Korea yet? The reason is that they haven't gotten close enough to the line (developing a nuke with delivery capacities) to where we can avert retaliation from China. Once they get a delivery system, we'll bomb them and China will be alright with it. If China isn't alright with it, that's when the party begins.
And Barrack Hussein Obama is going to talk the North Koreans into submission
The question should not be "What should the US do?" but "When is China going to do something about "their" neighbor?" "IF" NK were able to actually attack the US with a nuke and did, the US would most likely respond in kind. China would get the fallout. It is them that should do something for their own self interest. The US should lead by expecting others to do "their" part for world peace.
id like to say put them back to the stone age but they are already there! feel sorry for the people they let starve but can find money to spend on weapons! must be taxing the rich!
@tiredofhypocrites,
You need to do some serious reading about the Iran-Contra affair. Reagan had a great deal to do with the hostages not being released. If you remember, Carter attempted a rescue of the hostages, but there was a crash at the rally point inside Iran that screwed it up (and warned Iran to the point that such future attempts were off the table.) What this has to do with Iran is that North Korea is currently swapping plutonium (which Iran can't make currently) and nuclear technology for Iran nuclear technology and solid fueled rocket technology.
You're a nearly complete cast of clowns, if knowing something about the subject was a criteria for posting, these would be all blank pages. There's a concern about a strain of tuberculosis coming out of South Africa that is entirely drug resistant. As shocked as the health care community may be, there's a strain of stupidity that is completely resistant to knowledge. You're all carriers. You must have all slept together or coughed on each other, it's the best way of explaining how so much stupid was able spread to so many people.
I'd normally tell you to get plenty of rest, drink lots of fluids and keep warm, but I believe you're all past a cure and might want to consider checking into Stupid Hospice Care.
So much for reformation under chubby-il. I don't think NK will "sell" any of their primitive devices to terror organizations as they want to keep them for their own grandeur. The bloke who let the genie out of the bottle was the Pakistani nuclear scientist who "sold" secrets to both NK and Iran. But eventually any determined country can produce nuclear devices (think Israel and South Africa although with the fall of aparteid I think the SA's abandoned their plans).
But one day one of these devices will be set off.
Chris,
Swapping plutonium? sources please.
Blackbird,
Making a fission device is easy, any country can do it. It is the fissionable material that is difficult to obtain. Many countries have both the material and the expertise, but choose not to produce a bomb.
Yes. The 'right' question is what is China going to do? My guess is NOTHING. Fair enough, we did nothing when India and Pakistan developed nukes, and we KNOW that Israel has them. Sadly the world is not a safer place with the North Koreans having nukes. Sure, Britain and France have them, but neither of those countries are going to go rogue over the next few years. The UN will make 'noise' but unless China wants to do something about their own spoiled child . . . .
And how many Iranians were partaking in the test/observing? And when they get enough material to build bombs, they will have to do very little, if any, testing of warheads because NK will have already done it for them under their cooperation agreement. Iran gives the missile technology and NK gives them warhead technology.
Ask yourself, just how is that Mr. Obama will determine that Iran has decided to go forward with constructing nukes? Is he a mind reader? And what, if anything is he doing to address their cooperation with NK and the resulting expansion of the capabilities and technology of both NK and Iran? Oh, I forgot, he was going to sit down, face to face, with them and all would be resolved. While at the same time he announces plans to weaken and eliminate some of our defenses. Brilliant!
What did Clinton do? That's the wrong question. The question is when he was offered Bin Laden by the Sudanese and he could have saved the lives of thousands and billions of dollars, who was he doin ? Unfortunately most of America's recent presidents have been incompetent, inept dolts. Please don't think for a minute that sanctions will deter North Korea or Iran. Both countries know America is bankrupt and simply can't afford any more military involvement. They will continue to do whatever they wish. America is in the proverbial hurtlocker. just like Ancient Rome, this country is in decline. It's simply a question of time and mathmatics before we see a collapse and the Balkanization of America.
Send Hillary to talk "Peace". Nah, I forgot....it is Sunday and she has better things to do.
Here is an idea to think about.. Tell China if they do not subdue their little ankle biting pet dog of a neighbor all commerce with China will stop worldwide until they do.. Give them a free hand to invade and annex NK as long as we can invade and annex Mexico.. They would be a far better trading partner to SK and have a stable although hard line leadership.. It is a win win solution for their border troubles as well as ours.. The citizens of these countries would most likely welcome the change..
Hahaha good one NBC, im quiverin' in me boots!
How can i put this...they may have a nuclear "warhead" but they severely lack the proper technology to even send one of these thing close to us. Now im not saying that its a good thing that it might crash down on some unsuspecting country far before it reaches us, which would be equally devastating since we are all humans, but even if it did come "close" we have (actually kinda old) technology that would zap that thing until its contents are inert then we would either "laze" it or "shoot" it down into an ocean, need a new home Mr. anemone?
In short, they may have found a way to make gun powder, but they have a long way to go to figure out on how to launch that bottle rocket, let alone launch it accurately.
WCF,
Sudan never made that offer. Total right wing propaganda. The "arms dealer" who invented this fiction now works for FOX, big surprise.
I think it about time North Korea tested their nuke. People hated bush for talking about it so enjoy all you liberal out there. Don't expect Obama to do anything his a piece of work that enjoy his liberal poll. I'm very happy for N. Korea they prove that Obama is a wimp. The US allow a young Dictator sh-- all over their face. We need Bush in Office.
Hahaha good one NBC, im quiverin' in me boots!
How can i put this...they may have a nuclear "warhead" but they severely lack the proper technology to even send one of these things close to us (Yes, i know that they have shot a rocket, whoohoo). Now im not saying that its a good thing that it might crash down on some unsuspecting country far before it reaches us, which would be equally devastating since we are all humans, but even if it did come "close" we have (actually kind of old) technology that would zap that thing until its contents are rendered inert then we would either "laze" it, "shoot" it down, or let it crash into the ocean. Need a new home Mr. anemone?
In short, they may have found a way to make the "gun powder", but they have a long way to go to figure out on how to launch that bottle rocket, let alone launch it accurately.
Soon Iran will do the same.
Our country is now geared to an arms economy bred in an artificially induced psychosis of war hysteria and an incessant propaganda of fear.
Douglas MacArthur
He was right Beijing should of been the target. Thanks Truman!
Talk talk talk draft Draft draft BS BS
Do something real
Enough with the 'Patty Cake'.
If you have money for Nucs, you have money to buy food and oil.
If we didn't owe so much to China we could put a little more pressure on them. A BIG thanks to all of you who buy Chinese products. My wish for you... May your grandchildren speak Chinese.
wilsonarden777
I have a real job! Maybe you should crawl out of your parents basement and try one.
Don't you just hate these little pissants? Constantly saber rattling and puffing up like some bird performing a mating dance. One thing for sure, each time they dance this little jig they do get screwed. Time for China to step up to the plate and muzzle their dog.
Obama, I am begging you, PLEASE, get your ass over there and bow.
They were just trying to microwave a burrito....
This will never end, North Korea uses us as a bank. All they have to do is a "test" and the rice starts flowing again. A few well aimed tomahawks should put them back at least 50 years as far as a nuclear capability is concerned. I really dont think it has the internal fortitude to take on south Korea in a non nuclear fight.
I do wonder how a country that cannot even feed its self can get the stuff to make nuclear weapons?
I agree that China needs to do something. Why should we have to? We are always getting involved in wars/situations we shouldn't.. I'm sick of it! Very happy I'm not in a highly populated area.
Historically speaking, democratic presidents really don't do anything until after the fact...Just saying.
Hey, 'Reagan' do you remember when Clinton GAVE North Korea nuclear technology?
And I am curious--exactly what was the actual Reagan supposed to do? He was not in any sort of political office, a diplomat, or had any official leadership capacity before he was inaugurated.
Seal Team Six, your mission, should you choose to accept it...
i'm not necessarily saying assassination is the best way to go (but we do know his older brother was pretty pi$$ed about being skipped over for succession, so a man on the inside isn't completely out of the question..) but let's look at the facts shall we?
Bin Laden
-- fanatical leader whose followers actually believed he was some sort of god.
-- base of operations was in a cave in area absolutely riddled with them. beacause of this, it may have taken time, but still found and eliminated.
Kim Jong "Nu-Ki-Tal"
-- fanatical leader who forces his people to treat him like a god.
-- resides in an extravagant palace, and all of his munitions and nuclear facilities would stick out like a sore thumb, being the only places that don't look like slums, since those are the only things the country's economy goes towards.
seriously, how hard would it be to destroy or at least sabotage these "christmas tree lights" on the North Korean Map, give this spoiled little brat a massive spanking and tell him to go sit in the corner?!
and if all you tree-hugging hippies are thinking "oh no, that's too much" then China and South Korea can open their borders and say "if you've had enough of this guy's crap, come on over here". then we can see if he can build a nuke with the budget of someone who works at a fast food joint
@Ed,
Here is a starter: http://www.worldcrunch.com/exclusive-north-korea-steps-aid-iran-nuclear-program/world-affairs/exclusive-north-korea-steps-up-aid-to-iran-on-nuclear-program-/c1s3649/
And here's another: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/02/08/why-uranium-would-make-a-north-korean-nuclear-test-especially-scary/
As you can see from reading the articles, there are advantages to be had on both sides from extending their already considerable nuclear collaboration to include swapping plutonium for uranium.
North Korea then Iran next... I wish we had a President that was a true leader, and some inkling of Foreign Policy. These countries, who are true enemies, are developing weapons of MASS destruction without a mention of displeasure from our commander and chief. Pretty soon, we are going to be unable to protect ourselves or our Allies from these combative, aggresive countries. Thus, they kill anyone whose opposes them, and China most likely will use North Korea to send a Nuke our way. And it has the appearance that our Commander and Chief is not too concerned.
Even if he (Obama or any of the other Presidents) did something (assuming you mean attacking North Korea) there would be a bunch of people feeling sorry for the civilians and would think its better to let Americans die, and would call the President (Obama or any other President) and our soldiers criminals, same thing that happened with Afghanistan and Bush. Our military was never allowed to fight to win, they were/are the only ones abiding by the Rules of engagement, it was/is a political war, and if we went to North Korea it would probably be another political war, which we can't win.
I'm not even sure that people would support a military operation if North Korea actually attacked our cities.
There is NO single person/admin/party to blame here... What can anyone do other than start a war (For you non historians we are still in a state of war with N. Korea)? Are you fiscally conservative repugnicans and blue d_ck democraps saying that ANOTHER war is something we can afford? What happened to cutting spending? Should we cut spending on everything (infrastructure, disaster relief, education, SS, medicare and unemployment whilst lowering revenue via BS tax breaks for corporations and the top 1%) except our department of OFFENSE? Deficit spend our way into another war like Bush did in BOTH Iraq and Afghanistan?
NK has ABSOLUTELY no way of delivering a nuclear payload to the continental US or even HI or AK. The Japanese, Chinese and SK will have to lead the way in somehow restricting NK from pursuing stupidity.
This is a delicate situation that NONE of the posters on here seem to understand. Have ANY of you served in the foreign service? Have you ever negotiated with other countries as a whole in your lives? Bunch of partisan (both sides) armchair diplomats vomiting words, ideas and opinions that are NONSENSE.
Lol Philly, you lying fraud "9 months of intel"....you cut off the 9/11 terror plot beginning at the start of the Bush presidency, instead of years before
...Muhammed Atta and the other hijackers entering the US under Bill Clinton and training on our own planes under his admin.
Lying scum. Lol at "9 months", yah
Easy 4 word solution: Time For Drone Strikes...destroy their program before it gets any bigger
Obama will give a speech. That's what Obama will do.
The only people that he can talk into submission are liberal americans, they must love being talked down to, why else would they kiss up to him.
Did he wag his finger?
I will not tolerate listening to his condescending blather.
I say ICBMs for any country that wants them & guns for all Americans who want them!
Let N. Korea & Iran have nuclear weapons. If something happens then the gun nuts over here can fight N. Korea/Iran off with their semi-auto AR-15s. Why are you laughing? I think that would work out fine.
Why does the U.S. constantly have to be the police of the world? If N. Korea and/or Iran eventually end up with nukes and the ability to drop them on us so what. What's the big deal? It will make the world a much more exciting place in which to live.
They said on the news yesterday that Obama wants to reduce our nuclear arsenal from 1,500+ down to 1,000. Maybe Obama can take those 500 nukes he wants to get rid of & give 250 to N. Korea & 250 to Iran. That will show them that we really aren't the bad guys but kind/generous people instead. They should love us then. That would be a win/win/win situation for all involved.
A refreshing thought from a Maryland Conservative: ..."What North Korea does or does not do (unless they are attacking us, directly or indirectly - or one of our allies), IS NONE OF OUR BUSINESS !
Secondly: GET US OUT OF THE U.N. AND THE U.N. OUT OF THE UNITED STATES !
Right on a Maryland booth!
"Secondly: GET US OUT OF THE U.N. AND THE U.N. OUT OF THE UNITED STATES !"
Thirdly: Come on Texas, lets get out of the united states! Secede!!!
north korea has NUKES?!!!!
why doesnt piers morgan bitch at NK like he does us for the guns?
since NK has nukes, we need to take away all guns from US citizens.
cause if US citizens dont have guns then korea will dismantle their nukes!!!
thats democratic logic for you
This is because of Pakistan's scientist, by the name of A Q Khan--- He is the one who gave nuclear
technology to North Korea and Iran.
The way to kill a snake is to cut off the head! why is the world screwing with this freak. one missle in the rightplace will work wonders and after that is done anounce to the miltary who ever steps up to the pump will get the same. proublem solved. and give them one week
last chanceto get rid of those bottle rockets they have. i have no beef with the people of korea. it's hard to belive that style of being of life still ex. in this world the folks of korea are suffering. from hunger and poverty. the truth be known they would bless the world for a change of life ! if china is with this sactions then what is the world waiting for hes just 1 man. or must i say 1 big headed moron.The economy is falling apart, North Korea is testing nuclear bombs, Iran is about to get a bomb and what is Obama and the Liberal media focused on destroying the Second Amendment to the Constitution.
How many Americans have the North Koreans killed in the past year?
The 2end amendment keeps being used to destroy the constitutional right to life. If you have 1 right being used to violate another, then your violating the constitution either way. If nothing is done for the sake of the 2end and it keeps being used by some to take lives, then the government is failing to protect citizens by limiting that right.
The government is literally in a no win. Violate the 2ned to save lives or violate the right to life to protect the 2end.
Something will be done, it is just a question of time.
Maybe I missed something but I believe this story is about North Korea, not the 2nd Amendment.
Any chance you could stay on topic?
@OneOfTheSane
No chance at all.
@QE137
I didn't figure there was.
lol... Blame Obama, but we want all of our guns... Yeeeee-Haw!
One of the sane. Being a Right WInger is like having a televisiooin with one channel - and it's on all the time.
The economy is falling apart,
The DOW nearing 14,000 as opposed to 8000 for years ago. 33 straight months of job grownt as opposed to losing 800,000 four years ago --- the economy WAS falling apart. Today it has a long way to go but is heading in the right direction.
This is China's problem! They made it, have them start acting like a world power and fix it.
Witchking
Here's what the Republicans focused on in the last session of Congress
"The numbers: Republicans have introduced 44 bills on abortion, 99 on religion, 71 on family relationships, 36 on marriage, 67 on firearms/gun control, 522 on taxation, 445 on ‘government investigations,’ and zero on job creation."
If was all about the the economy, then why are they telling us who we can marry, what our religion should be, our family values, and legitimate rape? Oh wait, my bad.. the republicans feel they have the right to destroy the Constitution and tell me what I should be doing in my bedroom.
Witch King; THe economy is not falling apart; it's the sky that's fallling!!!!!
Iran is not about to get a bomb. Our intelligence agencies have said Iran does not have a nuclear weapons program.
The war mongers, Mike and Oneoftheinsane, posted that Iran was in on the nuclear test. How about some proof on that one. I think you people throw that stuff out there because you think it will stick.
Just post one link or the proof. Bet you cannot!
The dimwit, Romney, declared Iran is the greatest threat to the world and they don't even have anything close to a nuclear weapon. Since all their enrichment is monitored, it is impossible for them to build one. They can only enrich to 20%. A bomb requires 97% enrichment, hence, no threat from Iran.
N. Korea and Israel did not sign the NPT and they both have nuclear weapons. Iran did sign the NPT.
ItsAboutTime-3704531
Well said.
Charlie-1915998
The economy is falling apart,
The DOW nearing 14,000 as opposed to 8000 for years ago. 33 straight months of job grownt as opposed to losing 800,000 four years ago --- the economy WAS falling apart. Today it has a long way to go but is heading in the right direction.
Charlie,
Do you believe everything you hear? The economy is STILL falling apart, it's just hanging on by a thread right now, and one little stressor is going to completely break it.
That's comical, I wish we had that flavor Kool-Aid in my area.
And sending tanks and f-16's to Eygpt
Have your actually read the 2nd ammendment? A well regulated malitia is not you and your buddies firing of AR15s at paper Obama targets on the weekend to compensate for your obvious lack of a spine!
@RalphH,
1) Our intelligence agencies have never said that Iran does not have a nuclear weapons program. Period. What they have said is at their current level of uranium enrichment, the production of a test device is still a ways off.
2) There have been many reports of North Korean and Iranian exchanges of nuclear technology. Also, NK has plutonium (which it can make) and has been reported to be swapping plutonium for rocket technology. Plutonium requires less technology than uranium and is easier to make a bomb from. A likely exchange is NK plutonium for Iranian miniturization technology.
3) What most intelligence analysts estimate is that Iran doesn't actually want a stockpile of nuclear weapons similar to that held by Israel. What Iran wants is sufficient stockpiles of 70-80% enriched uranium to start producing a supply of weapons within six mon ths or so. It would not be out of line to suggest that the last NK nuclear test could be cooperative with Iran, providing Iran with valuable test data while allowing it to maintain a facade of NPT participation.
Wow... SoldierLib
Is that what you really think? Then you are in for a surprise when Odumbo takes every right away from "evryone" that he sees fit to. Who do you think will stand for you when the time comes? Do you think the media will portrait the citizens that are trying to keep our freedoms as true patriots? Oh, wait that's right the occupy Wallstreet movement was the true patriots and the Tea Party wasn't I geuss.
I get so sick of the mindless drones that follow Odumbo, They think he has their best intrest in mind. If you read his book you will see he thinks "all" Americans are the wealthy 1% of the Global community. You need to decide who's side you are on, and I don't mean Repub. or Dem. either.
Oh, By the way, a well "armed" militia is exactly what the founding fathers intented for the people to establish. Also they did intend for us to have the same fire power as the government. Why do you think Odumbo wants to take them away from us? How do you think the Revolutionary war was won, with sticks and knives?
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the "people" to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed
QE 137 and MJ1986. I respect your right to free speech. I even defended it in several campaigns while on Active Duty. However, your views on the second amendment are indeed incorrect. Private citizens require arms to protect themselves from criminals and tyrannical governments. One of the first things the NAZIs did upon coming to power was to villify guns in the hands of Jews. After disarming the population they then implimented their policy of ethnic cleansing. Take away the guns of Americans and who will be targeted here in the US ? The Mexicans? The Blacks ? The Muslims ? The Jews ? The Asians ?The whites ? The Christians? I tell you what. When they take away guns with your support please feel free to take my place on the train, OK ?
@ Jfix 3.1
How many Americans have the North Koreans killed in the past year?
Not many but how many have they threatened to kill? MILIONS! Openly and constantly, every propaganda film they release says as soon as they are capable they are gonna nuke us! So by all means let wait till they nuke a city before we try to stop them!
Lets send kim your home address so he can nuke your city first so you wont have to hear me say "I TOLD YOU SO!"
Lets let them kill millions so you can then ask "why didnt we do something way back before this happened". Lets wait and let them nuke us so we can play the blame game afterwards!
I never suggested the abolition of firearms, I suggested that something will eventually be done about the situation of people dieing because of them. The Irony is that when one part of the constitution ( 2A ) is being used to violate an other Amendment (5A) then the government must act on that or risk violating the constitution ether way.
In the 5th Amendment, a person may not be killed by the government without due process of the law. This extends to citizens not engaged in self defense. NO ONE has the right to use their 2A to arbitrarily deprive a person of life as enshrined in the 5A. The abuse of even a relative few people of the 2A demands action by government within reason to protect the 5A. To do less would in it's self be a violation of the oath to defend the constitution.
No one expects 320 million guns to be taken out of circulation. That would be unrealistic. We is not unrealistic is tighter control and a far more robust law giving citizens enhanced rights to recover damages in the case that firearms are used.
Oh, and I did not need you to defend my 1st amendment. I was one of those that did some defending. I have never liked the attitude by others who have fought that that entitles them to remind everyone else that they did just to attempt to make a point. So you fought for freedom, so did many millions of others over the last century. Not many of them asked for a "cookie" for doing it. I certainly don't.
The real question that needs to answer this is the atmospheric testing for radioactive particles that are associated with a nuclear blast/test. Once those are in we will have solid evidence of a test or not.
There may be no release of radioactive particles depending on how deep and well contained the test is.
yeah when that test is 1km underground how do you suppose you test for radioactive particles in the air?
Neutrons travel through rock. There are some traveling through your body right now.
Airborne particles from an underground test?
There's this thing called the internet. Free information!
Use it!
Until then, LOL.
I mean why do you THINK we do underground testing thousands of meters below grade?
No particles will show up,not needed just read the seismograph and the energy the blast created.
Nuclear detentions have a very distinct energy output which can be measured around the world.
The main is the implosion device they used by the looks of it they may have overcome the complicated physics of such a device,ie the explosive package to set off the chain fission reaction.
Iran has the fuel,North Korea has the physics part.
AIn't the internet grand? THere's alll the nuclear scientists, meteorologists, geologists, psychologists surgeons , helll anything you want and it's all freee! Instead of having universities with scientists they should just thow out problems on the intebnet and have postesr vote on which solution they like best. THink of alll the money we'd save.
Ronald,
Given the types of armchair science, diplomacy, politics, and policy I've seen going on, the western world would collapse in about 6 days.
You end up with a theory called global warming, I mean climate change.
How did I know that was coming... yes global warming is real and the world is actually round... not to mention it revolves around the sun not visa verse. Also om a side note "Interested Observer" is a troll and a RETARD. Save your backward comments for the FOX boards.
EngineerScott,
Complicated? If they are using Plutonium, there are off the shelf controlers that can detonate the HE panels simultaneously, imploding the PU to critical. If they're using U235 it's even easier. The shotgun method is so reliable that America's first U235 bomb was "tested" on Hiroshima.
It is quite possible to conduct nuclear tests and emit zero radiation, especially with horizontal bores (which eliminate the possibility of small pockets of water. But that can still be detected --- the traditional way has been by using seismographs, but more recently there are detection systems based on disturbances on the readings from GPS satellites.
And @Ed is correct about the difficulty of building a Hiroshima/Nagasaki-type implosion or shotgun type device. Either would require very little knowledge that is not readily available. The shotgun type, as @Ed mentioned, is a piece of cake. The implosion device was difficult only because it was hard to get the detonators on all the HE cells to go off exactly simultaneously. That was then. Now, you can buy the necessary components to achieve this at any camera shop.
I would also add that modern fusion weapons are two-stage devices. The first stage is a fission weapon that acts as a trigger for the second stage. But it is not really necessary to test both stages. In fact it is a waste of fissionable material. You only need to explode the first stage and measure the radiation and particles that are directed to the second stage. If the first stage does its job, the second stage is a piuece of cake similar to the shotgun bomb. This is why you have some experts saying that a 500kt detonation is sufficient to test a 1.1 mt device.
tired of hypocrites. You are the naive one if you believe the release of the hostages wasn't arrranged by Reagan to maximize political benefitr to ROnald Reagan. Besides it set him up to further circumvent the consitution when he used Olllie North for trhe Iran/Contra messs. On the bright side - you do provide further corroboration of Rule #2 of the internet i.e. A poster willl always post something that is the exact opposite of what thi/her name implies. E.g. Someone name RATIONALBOB will post "OPresident Obama is training an army of HOnduran spider monkieys to stel the automatic weapons of the people who register them with the government. THis will happpen next CHristmas Eve when they execute the plan to send a spider monkey down the chimneys of machine gun owners. THis post will inmvariably be followed byu some self-name ITHINKFORMYSELF who will post. "Yes I've heard of Obama's Monkey Army on Fox News - O'REillly did a special on it!"
The burden is on China.
China is to blame for this mess and they should revise their position on North Korea and get them to stop this totalitarian bull $hit. Everyone else knows, including China, that ideology leads to now way but hardship for the people under it's influence.
China has done very well since the Nixon trip and the offer to joint the world community. It's time for China to live up to their part of the deal and make some serious moves into North Korea. If North Korea brings the rest of the world to the brink, then it will be China that will pay a heavy price. North Korea has nothing to lose, it is already an impoverished nation unable to feed its own people. That means North Korea cannot be pushed any further short of military action.
Is this what China wants?
China should allow the refugee from NK stay, rather than detaining and sending them back.
Rober - a perfect Right WIng Ideologue. You're not reacing to anything that has happened or that is likely to happpen. Just feeeding those gremlins in your mind that worrry soo soooo much about our left handed President. Name one thing he has done that has a real negative effect on you in the Real world. Tooo bad. I knew you couldn't.
China is the common denominator. If any sanctions should be applied it should be against China. They can't or won't control their little cousin. North Korea exists because of the Chinese connection. We should tell China no more computers,no more interest on the loans,and refuse the goods China needs to keep it's economy thriving. The league of Nations was useless against Hitler and I'm afraid the UN is the same. They only sabre rattle but the North Koreans just laugh at them. We really need to hit the Dragon where it hurts the most and that is in their pocket books. This cat and mouse game has to stop or it can lead to the total devastation of the world as we know it.
Jack, what do you suppose will be happening to our economy while we are imposing your economic sanctions on China? Besides, I tend to agree with the comment "At the same time though, a collapsing non-nuclear North Korea is far worse than a nuclear but stable North Korea!" What do you suppose might happen if Kim believed he had nothing left to lose?
Boy, there is no need to entertain having a rational discussion on the vine about the North Korean possible nuclear test as all that can be discussed is Obama? If some rendition of the Brazilian Fruit Fly were to show up in the fields of Mexican cantaloup it would somehow be Obama's fault. Thank God these conspiracy addicts have no sway on matters of national importance. They can just stay in their hovels and sip their Budweiser and conjure up more Obama conspiracies.
I too am not a fan of conspiracies, but there are currently more people unemployed right now than when Obama took office. More Americans on some type of government assistance. We have a HUGE Spending/Borrowing problem that apparently Obama doesn't want to address.
I wish those were just conspiracies, but they are facts! I like how you pointed out everyone is talking about Obama and how they should be focused on N. Korea. Then why did you spin it back to Obama?
Come on!!!! :)
@James. please provide a link to those facts about unemployment and MORE people being on government assistance, since president Obama took office. And then let's look at what happened in the years prior to Obama being elected president. I am almost completely sure that there was something that occurred.
Let China deal with them. They are more at risk of nuclear pollution than we are, they have more interest in this situation.
You should be more concerned with N. Korea and Iran selling a nuclear bomb to a terrorist organization. Then you never know where they will attempt to detonate it! Put it on a boat and attempt to dock off of California or the East coast. Then that pollution is OUR problem as well as the destruction.
James, you've got a valid point on the terrorist risk, but I believe the thought process at work when you start talking about someone actually using one of these things has evolved well past this. What concerns me most about North Korea is that they could very well understand that if you really want to inflict damage on the United States, you do it by detonating the nuke 50 miles up, in space, over the center of the country.
How does it work? Such a detonation would create an EMP which would obliterate the power grid in not just the US, but Canada, Mexico, and most of Europe. All methods of communication except for ham radio would cease to work. Any vehicle with on-board computers would not work. Therefore, the nation's trucking fleet grinds to a halt. This means food stores run empty in 3 to 4 days. You fuel supply would be limited to whatever you have on hand, whatever you may have hoarded, whatever you can manufacture on your own or whatever you can pirate from a fuel depot should you be close enough to one to do so. Within 4 to 7 days, water will no longer come out of your faucet because the utility's backup generators will be out of diesel and unable to get more.
Then there's the impact on the US military and national security. No military in the world uses more technology, and most, if not all of it, would be rendered inoperable. The country literally would not be able to see because its communications would be so limited. The country would be unable to initiate any kind of response which requires a computer to execute it because the computers would not work. The country would be completely vulnerable.
Just looking at North Korea's missile capabilities, they're close to having the necessary range for such a threat. Their recent three-stage missile had a range of 6200 miles, which could conceivably reach San Francisco. If they can add another 1800 miles of distance and be able to reach an altitude of 50 miles at that distance, that would put the nuke roughly above St. Louis. This is what I consider the major threat threshold, and there's no doubt in my mind that they will add the range needed to reach it.
Yes Rodent, but do you really think if something is coming at us we are going to put on sunglasses and brake out the popcorn?
Here we go with the strong condemnation and all the talk that leads to nothing. The best thing the pres can do is not say anything at all. Thats what they want, they want us to keep running our mouths and doing nothing. It's more gas on the America is a coward fire.
This talking problem has not started with this president, but it should end with him.
what the F does all that mean? That's your firm grasp on international politics? jeezus.
It means go to war or shut up about all the warnings that lead no place. They only make you look weak when all you do is talk and talk about what to do and you don't do anything at all.
I am not for war, so I think the best thing to do is to just be silent.
I agree, QE.
The Cold War was all about posturing, presentation, and using your "poker face". Maybe 'moderation above all' doesn't remember it or wasn't born yet.
If we stay silent, the enemy's brain races wondering what we are thinking. If we announce our opinion, you remove that anxiety. Silence can be a good psychological weapon. As they say of torture, 'the worst part is knowing there is more to come indefinitely if you do not give in'
QE137 is basically correct. Issuing demands and proclamations at this point accomplishes nothing. NK has proven to be unworthy of trust or belief. There is no point in engaging in "constructive dialog." They want the bomb and no agreement to the contrary is going to dissuade them. Munich 1938 proved that there is no point in negotiating with crooks. Ignore them or destroy them.
The problem with doing anything about it is that North Korea would level Seoul in minutes with artillery. They've also said if they start evacuating Seoul they would level it then, as well.
Then it is all out war. A war that would likely lead to WW3, but that is where we are going anyhow. I think if we just said nothing at all every time they set off on a tantrum, it would make them highly nervous down the road.
You can gain a lot of information from an enemy that talks, even when he lies. You get nothing at all from an enemy that refuses to say anything at all.
"You get nothing at all from an enemy that refuses to say anything at all."
So you get nothing from someone who refuses to say nothing. If you refuse to say nothing, then you must be saying something. Get some coffee, I know it's early :-)
A war with North Korea would not end up as WWIII. Who would fight on its side?
China may be willing to give aid and keep their mouth shut, but it's a huge leap in logic to assume that they'd fight on North Korea's side against a country they have huge trade relations with. Absurd.
@InterestedObserver-1193145
Yeah, it was more because where I am from a sentence like that one many times gets said "anything at all" rather then "nothing at all". I do suppose nothing at all would have sounded better to most though. It was less about my need for coffee. Oh, and how dare you push me to drink more coffee! Thats bad! vary bad! ;-)
They said the same thing in 1950.
It is not 1950.
Iraq had far more international support than North Korea does, and the case for war against them was far more flimsy. How many nations did you see lining up to defend Iraq?
here comes the mack daddy of all ironic outcomes. Liberals hate missile defense. Liberals think ABM systems are a waste of money and that that money should instead be wasted on welfare. North Korea has a missile. North Korea has an atomic bomb. Seattle is the closest American major city to North Korea. Liberals hate missile defense. Seattle is infested with liberals. Of course, the correct answer to N Korea nuking Seattle into a perfectly round crater is that it's George Bush's fault. Don't you HATE it when you actually get held accountable for your actions? Let's talk about how well Clinton did negotiating with the North Koreans. Or have you forgotten that? Or would you want to brush that whole fiasco under the rug, and Blame Bush? Sure, why not.
NK doesn't have missiles. They just tested one, but they cannot build many enough. They cannot build many bombs.
The missile they tested also isn't powerful enough to lift a nuclear warhead.
I'm liberal and I don't hate missile defense.
I thought San Francisco was the closest mainland city to N.K. We're not?
Phew! That's a load off my mind!
I mean, you want to talk about anti-military liberal whackjobs, not many other places compare.
Alex...
They dont have to build "many enough", they only have to build one in order to kill millions of americans! This is their stated goal!
Well, no. They have to build one, and then they have to get it here. That's not going to be easy.
And then they have to do that despite the fact that it will almost definitely result in their complete annihilation.
It's not a simple matter at all.
Yes all they need to do is build one and deliver it to their friends down south. One could kill millions of people in S.Korea. For myself and the USA I am not so much worried. We don't need to go in with both barrels blazing and start another War. This is supposed to be the UN's problem, but of course they have never been what you would call united. Sanctions have not worked and they never will because the leadership does not care about their own people. You either demand they stop and if they don't some action would be needed otherwise why carry on and on about it if your not willing to do the job. These folks in N.Korea will sooner or later use what they have. Best to take action soon or it will be far to late.
Just maybe, Kim Jong Un just fired off one of them there Roker rockets !
North Korea blast is deepest Korea blast!
NBC doing the bidding for the military industrial complex...again ? NBC likes war, they can raise the advertising rates. peace
I'm sure glad I have access to NewsVine comments...now I don't have to subscribe to the Comedy Channel for laughs.
Not a terribly shocking development given the total liars that NK have been for decades. NK is a greater threat to SK than to anyone else. They'll use the bomb as blackmail in international negotiations. However, they are unlikely to ever have more than a limited supply of them with only short-to-medium range launchers. And the use of one such bomb on the Korean peninsula or elsewhere in Asia would unleash a retaliatory firestorm they could not withstand. Seoul might be destroyed (which would be an unimaginable tragedy), but all of NK and the Kim thug dynasty would be completely obliterated in response. Mutually-Assured Destruction applies to NK now as well as it did to the USSR in the Cold War. Ultimately, the U.S. is best-served by negotiating through the SK government in multi-party talks with China and possibly Japan.
Personally, the security of Pakistan's nuclear stockpile worries me more than what NK might be able to do. NK can probably be bought off. The Kim thugs have something to lose by not making a deal. A radical Islamic jihadist has no such reservations.
I'm wondering if NK might be more likely to accidently blow themselves up....
Its ok for Korea to have bombs and Netanyahu not say anything. But its not ok for iranians to have nuclear power. Netanyahu gave the iranians a deadline. The U.S agreed to it but not for north korea who had tested nuclear bombs since 06. Un-frickin-believable. America is just like a yoyo, they go back and forth with their statements making fools of themselves every time. When will the next war start,
Given that Barack Obama's stern words have no effect on North Korea or Iran, we can expect the first Iranian nuclear bomb test to be New York or Chicago, after which Barack Obama will again say, "Please don't do that again" Sigh ...
Talk is cheap. All we really need to tell corrupt regimes like this is: if one American dies anywhere in the world from the detonation of one of your weapons, your country will become a glass parking lot. Mutually Assured Destruction cuts through the crap of diplomacy. They may have a few nukes, but we have a hell of a lot more, and more accurate and effective ways of delivering them. If they want to join the Big Kids table, they will have to play by the Big Kids rules.
Chris is right. Talk is cheap, but when the cards are down, we have thousands of ICBMs with megaton fusion bombs on them. We have submarines with megaton fusion bombs on them, with some likely near North Korea. North Korea has the plans for a missile that can possibly hit the US, but that missile won't be carrying one of North Korea's heavy kiloton fission bombs.
North Korea doesn't do this to threaten the US. They do it for posturing and bargaining. Same reasons the US and Russia did nuclear testing in the 50's and 60's.
@Pragmatic,
It is likely, given the size of the detonation, that North Korea's last blast is in the megaton range and likely in the 1.1 megaton range that is the next plateau. The process is being sped up by North Korea exchanging plutonium to Iran in return for miniturization technology.
Words is all Obama can do or will do. What has he done? Nothing.
What did Obama do to close Guantanmo Bay? Nothing.
What did Obama do to bring home soldiers from Iraq? Nothing.
What did Obama do to bring soldiers home from Afghanistan? Nothing?
The lists of his promises is very very long. Nothing is what he does.
I think 1.1 megaton is a bit optimistic. The highest yield fissile device ever detonated was 500 kt. And I don't think the North Koreans are far enough along to be building staged devices for a fusion weapon.
Well Stew, what did Bush do to bring them home? In fact why send them in the first place? Ten years later the country is STILL waiting for an answer. Bush went in with no clue on how to disengage. Only now have the troops been rotated back.
Close Gitmo? why,, leave it open. Better than letter them all go.
What do you expect with NK? Right, lets start ANOTHER war. The violation is against the UN, not the US. The rest of the world doesn't care what the US thinks and who we think should have them. Guess we should send a half million of our people over and put the country deeper in debt. Think we can really borrow for a THIRD war? We aren't close to paying for the first two yet.
When are people going to wake up all i keep hearing is what did Obama do no what did Bush do who cares their one of the same. All presidents have the same agenda they work for big business. Look they thought Iraq was making weapons of mass destruction we went in and found nothing but we still went to war with Iraq meanwhile N. Korea is making weapons of mass destruction and they have been working on it for a long time and yet they did nothing ask yourselves why. Whether their Dom. or Rep. does not matter they all work for big business not for the American people and who is to blame the American people who sit around and do nothing but argue about this is Bush's fault no this Obama's fault in reality this is our fault for letting this crap go on for so long.
Scalzo STFU.
Why not answer the question? What will Obama do? What has Obama done. Why can't you answer without bringing up bush? It's really phucking pathetic.
I will gladly spend 2 hours ripping on bush and his screw ups when you can get over your dick fetish for Obama and admit your glorious leader also sucks hard.
Cognitive dissonanace abounds and ignorance resonates with your type! GET A PHUCKING CLUE!
Well, DrAlchemy, maybe you should STFU yourself.
Tell us genius, what should Obama do? We're all ears. You can't, can you? No, no answers, just finger pointing.
Maybe he should start a war based on lies and then completely screw it up? Maybe we should waste more money on wars we can't pay for. Maybe we should just start a nuclear war.
Thinking. Try it out.
..yawn :-\
warren -- ditto.
We need to park a missile cruiser off of North Korea and shoot down any missile they launch, they have threatened us and we can't take a chance if the next one has a nuclear warhead on it.
What was the threat?
@Shawn,
If we tried to "park a missile cruiser off of (sic) North Korea and shoot down any missile they launch" a North Korean advanced diesel electric sub which had been lieing on the bottom undetected dor weeks or months would fire its torpedoes and sink the cruiser before it could respond.
Remember than the South Korean corvette Chongnan was a state of the art anti-submarine ship which was on alert and in the Yellow Sea when it was sunk with NO warning. The first indication that this ship had that it was under attack was when the torpedoes were launched and the "air punch" was heard.
While we try to pretend that the North Korean military is old technology and worthless, nothing could be further from the truth. A lot of it is old technology, but an AK-74 is still as good a weapon as it ever was.
Why would we want shoot down something that would wipe out California?
Chris, while that's certainly something to think about, the sinking of one South Korean ship doesn't imply that the North somehow has outrageous submarine technology that could thwart America's naval assets. I think that if we want to get a missile cruiser there, the Koreans don't really have the power to stop us. They'll need a LOT of those diesel subs to fend us off.
"What was the threat?"
Where the hell have you been?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/feb/12/north-korea-nuclear-test-threatens
Diesel subs have to surface every few weeks to charge their batteries, even if they have onboard cryogenic oxygen to run their engines.
Diesel subs are easy to spot underwater by this newfangled device called SONAR, we can park the cruiser outside their territorial waters and if their sub gets close we blow it up also.
Threat? where? Their best missile can't come anywhere close to use. China and SK should take care of business.
Shawn-1486781
They have been rattling their swords for 50 years now and threatening us. Nothing has happened.
Wrongo Bucko,
Advanced diesel subs are the cutting edge of technology. These very advanced subs are far, far quieter than nuclear subs and have the ability to sit on the bottom for days, weeks, even months, using LOX and producing oxygen from seawater and using sophisticated scrubbers to remove CO2. They can stay submerged for months under the right conditions. Chinese and Russian advanced diesel-electric subs have been, for several years now, surfacing in the vicinity of US Battle Fleets, obviously undetected. In peacetime it is a sort of game --- in wartime it means, "You're dead!" Once these guys have settled on the bottom, sediment plus anti-SONAR and anti-magnetic coatings make them close to invisible to current detection methods.
North Korean does have an unknown number of these advanced diesel-electrics. Here is one article on them (and you can find outhers easily): http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/archive/2008/April/Pages/AntiSub2301.aspx
As Hillary famously says " what does it matter now"?
Maybe the Libs will send a couple of Marines over there and then not support them so they can be killed also........like in Bengazi!!
Our Dear Leader is probably laughing too. He can let the North Koreans take care of us, thus saving him the trouble, while he hunkers down in his bunker for a year or so.
Then he will truly be King of all.
Seriously - do you really believe that President Obama has so much power that he could "let" North Korea "take care of us" and he could just sit in a bunker and then be "King of all"?
You realize that the same money behind the scenes controlling him is the same money behind the scenes controlling both sides of our ridiculous 2 party system, right?
Sitting on one side of the fence and yelling about the other side is exactly how control is kept - as you aren't paying attention to the big picture, which is exactly what they want.
Yeah king of what a bombed out and dead America. Your misguided paranoid delusional theory makes no sense. You cant be king if you lose your kingdom.
I made the statement when Mr. Obama was first elected that our enemies would be braver than ever.
It has turned out to be true.
Very anal-ytical of you. So how do you quantify their "bravery" now relative to before? I assume you have an index somewhere showing just who are the enemies of of the US and how many more "brave" acts they have done in the past 4 years compared to how many they were doing previously.
Self-fullfilling prophecies are very easy to make.
Brisaber
Such large words, they would love to have you at CNN (Communist News Network)
They like to use big words and say nothing also. Or maybe you already work for them, hmmmm.
Right because they were so friendly before that point.
https://www.google.com/search?q=north+korea+bush&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7ADRA_enUS499
During those years every time they rattled the sword, Bush bought them off with more food. How many times did we go through that phase?
When is Obama going to get credit for killing Bin Laden? He tries diplomacy first but isnt afraid to fight when necessary. It appears that your misconceptions are feeding on themselves.
OK Obozo what ya gonna do? Send more aid??
North Korea was and is a rouge nation. China has some power and influence, however as the article stated. "How much" is the question. Now should NK make good on their threat, how would they survive a retaliation delivered by the US, UK, China, Russia, India and a few others ? They would not, the impact that such a strike would deliver North Korea would be left a vast waste land.
Does the world believe that NK has the rashtional to consider the consequences of their possible action ? That in my opinion is the question !
OH mah GAWD! He's a usin' some a them thar BIG WURDS! Wah HE muss be a COMMUNIST! JEB!! Git a rope!
Hey!!! unwanted.. Your user name is prophetic LOl
The problem with Odumbo is, he has intentionally caused our nation to become a weak player in the international arena.
He wants us to bow to the power of the UN and the "global community". The Presidents of the past for the most part, have always taken our intrests and that of our allies as our priority. Dumbo doesn't.
SO WHAT,
Obama didn't kill anybody. He sat on his ass surrounded by security personnel and had a soldier who actually had some guts do it for him. Obama's never "fought" anybody in his life, other than with nice cheap words - again while hiding behind his little personal army.
People who make threats and then have someone else carry them out is the definition of a coward, plain & simple.
Also, the soldier who actually DID kill Bin Ladin is now destitute. That's how Obama and his worthless administration take care of the people who do his killing for him.
If any of you can prove here how ANY Republican president has handled North Korea any better than Obama I'll help you learn to read.
My only point: if you're going to claim that your prophecy has been fulfilled, best be prepared to prove it. How do you prove that our enemies are braver than they were before Obama was elected? It was a stupid statement because it can't be proved one way or the other. Our enemies have hated us from long before Obama, and they did things like create nuclear bombs long before Obama. But somehow, now that Obama's been elected, they are more brave in doing it?
Prove it. Show me how many more "brave acts" are being done now than were being done by our enemies before Obama.
Just what we need: Another nut-job with the ability to blow us apart. Instead of creating havoc, it's about time all these nations with the ability to blow us to heck put all that effort into conservation and preservation of their wee corner of the globe. If everyone were busy doing that instead, perhaps then the planet might last a bit longer. Don't be ridiculous, Death! That would make too much sense. Whomever pushes the button next - may they get terrible radiation poisoning and pass it on to their progeny, just before they die. We don't need any more meat heads stemming from crazed off-spring. Sterilize the mongrels who take part in the madness of bombing anything that does nothing but destroy! This includes those meat heads in the US that wish to inflict such horrible things on others as well! Tit for tat, I say.
Mentally Ill has been rattling his sword for so many years now, all he has left is metal filings.
Kim Jong not Ir, Kim Jong Dead. New reader is Kim Jong Un(stable).
Time for a little logic - if it takes weeks to get an UN Security Council resolution approved, then that particular body is broken. There is a need for an organization like the UN, however, that organization should act efficiently in the event of crisis or else its design is flawed. Better hope they never spot a killer asteroid barreling towards us - we'll be ashes before they can even agree on coffee.
Now we wait to see what China's reaction will be. The west's sanctions arent going to mean much unless an actual naval blockade is conducted around N Korea.