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Subscribe to RSSAs Catholics worldwide come to terms with the news that Pope Benedict XVI is abdicating his position, becoming the first pope to do so in more than 700 years, Georg Ratzinger, the pope's brother, says the aging process is impacting him "body and soul." NBC's Richard Engel reports.
Pope Benedict XVI was troubled by "some great challenges" during his time in office -- including allegations of corruption within the church that were illegally exposed by his former butler and his relationship with a controversial Catholic brotherhood -- the pontiff’s brother said Tuesday.
Speaking to reporters in Germany, Georg Ratzinger said the pope was “doing relatively well” and his announcement Monday that he was going to stand down had not had an effect on his health.
Javier Barbancho / AFP - Getty Images
Joseph Ratzinger became Pope Benedict XVI in 2005. Look back at his life from childhood through his papacy.
On Monday, Benedict, 85, explained his resignation, saying that the papacy required “strength of mind and body” and his had deteriorated in recent months. On Tuesday, the Vatican acknowledged for the first time that the pope has had a pacemaker for years and that its battery was replaced a few months ago in secret, Reuters reported.
“But you notice that the aging process impacts body and soul, and especially on his strength," Ratzinger said Tuesday. "And he thinks that with a reduced workload he couldn't carry on this great responsibility, that a younger person is needed to capture the problems of today's time and who has the power to do what has to be done.”
'Indiscretions'
Ratzinger said the pope’s time in office had “created great challenges for him,” highlighting two particular issues that concerned his brother.
"Within the church a lot of things happened, which brought up troubles, for example the relationship to the Pius Brotherhood or the irregularities within the Vatican, where the butler had let known indiscretions,” he said.
“These were emotional years, but with God's help and his own commitment, I think he mastered it rather well,” he added.
Ratzinger did not specify the pope’s issues with the Pius Brotherhood, or Society of St. Pius X as the group is formally known.
But in late December, Bishop Bernard Fellay, head of the group, described Jews as “the enemies of the church” to widespread condemnation from within and outside the Catholic Church. Jesuit Father Federico Lombardi, the Vatican spokesman, reportedly said it was “absolutely unacceptable, impossible to define Jews as enemies of the church.”
In October, the pope’s former butler Paolo Gabriele was given an 18-month prison sentence in the so-called “Vatileaks” case, after he was found guilty of stealing thousands of Vatican documents -- including some of Benedict’s private papers and letters alleging corruption within the church -- while working for the pontiff.
Some of papers were leaked to the media and, in court, Gabriele said he acted out of concern for the church and the pope. The pope pardoned Gabriele just before Christmas.
On a brighter note, Ratzinger said foreign trips had also been “important” to the pope, enabling him “to have a pastoral impact, to find friends and to create understanding for the message of the Gospel.”
Reuters contributed to this report.
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Subtle, secretive process to choose new pope set to move quickly
Surprise, excitement in St. Peter's Square after pope's announcement
Leave a Comment:
Yeah, the guilty are are always pissed at the whistle blower. At least the butler had some semblance of morals
and yet, no mention of the massive pedophilia scandal?
again, we see how the abused children rank in the eyes of people who claim to be doing GOD's work.
Given that this pope was knee deep in the cover up of that scandal, I'd say kicking him on the way out the door is wholly appropriate. The media in general has been far too gentle with him.
Quoting the article:
"...including allegations of corruption within the church that were illegally exposed by his former butler..."
"...illegally exposed..."?????
Does this mean that it is illegal to make/expose "allegations of corruption" against the church?
Bmette - my exact thoughts.
Exactly......and I AGREE with you. IF.....the Catholic Church CLAIMS to be the only ONE and TRUE CHURCH in this world.....then......WHY ALL THE SECRECY? Because....WHEN A RELIGIOUS BODY can CLAIM Secrecy.....then, they become......ACCOUNTABLE to NO ONE.
And THIS....includes.....CORRUPTION within the CHURCH. After all....what is the CHURCH.....except a BODY of HUMANS......running an organization? What is wrong with TRANSPARENCY? And....I wish the CATHOLIC CHURCH would STOP claiming that the POPE is APPOINTED by GOD to represent CHRIST here on earth, and CANNOT make a mistake when speaking EX-CATHEDRA...or what ever that means.
Yes...HE can make a mistake.....or....he wouldn't be APOLOGIZING to the MUSLIMS as being "Evil" and of course......we know they are. Listen.....WE ARE ALL HUMAN.....no matter what GOOD INTENTIONS we may have. When you APOLOGIZE......you ADMIT you made a "mistake". Let's call a "SPADE a SPADE."
Humans are also PRONE.....to CORRUPTION. TRANSPARENCY would bring Corruption to the surface...for everyone to see. It is CLAIMED that the Catholic Church has a BILLION members.....but, really....HOW MANY really practice their FAITH?
Oh no.
They're accountable, we just won't be there to see it when it happens. :-)
in other words they run a Land of Oz operation... pay no attention to the man behind the partition! Do as we say not as we do.
I think the Pope read the history of the Catholic church and said" what the hell am I doing".
Worried more about gossiping butler than thousands of molested kids - Got it!
And the Catholic Church wonders why they are becoming less and less relevant...
John Paul ought to be despised as well, he would make a Cat cry over his cover-up abilities. I have nothing but disdain and loathing for ANY organized religion. Speak to God everyday on your own and stay away from Church.
clfan2-I agree with your idea, however, some people feel the need for organized religion and it should be made available to them. I live in NJ and there were a lot of Baptist volunteers from down south that came to help out after Sandy. You can't take that away from them, sometimes organized religion can help people where the individual can't.
You are right of course, but you won't catch me becoming a member.
More drama than Downton Abbey.
The Pope should be able to trust his butler, for heaven's sake.
Don't forget all of those "rebellious" nuns who feed the poor, nurse the sick, and comfort the afflicted rather than scream at those who have had abortions or who are gay. Yes, the Mafia - I mean, the Church certainly knows its business...er, priorities!
Bye, Consigliere Ratz!
Pedophilia. Punishment of those who tell the truth. Lies. Secrecy. Condemnation of the Jews as enemies. Where does this come from? The KKK? Some freaky cult? No, just the catholic church - standard operating procedure.
clflan, "church" is not necessarily a bad thing or a bad place to be. What IS bad is a so-called Christian religion that goes against nearly even one thing the Bible says. All it takes is one. If a person has read and reasonably understood the New Testament and compare measure the Catholic "religion" up to that it's easy to see it is not of God. The Bible says we'll know them by their works, which to my mind has always meant to compare what you see coming out of any church to make a decision. Two VERY tiny examples of things on the surface of Catholicism are where the Bible says to call no man Father because we have one Father who is in Heaven. Yet Catholic priests are called Father. Right there a commandment is broken. Another is where men are told not to pray or prophesy with their heads covered or they dishonor their head. That scripture further explains that a Christian man's head is Christ and if said man prays with long hair (he is to be shaven or shorn, aka regular-type haircuts that keeps the hair at a reasonable length) or a hat he dishonors Christ. Catholic priests wear hats when they conduct their services which breaks another commandment. (A commandment doesn't have to be one of the ten to be valid.)
I was raised in a very small and obscure Christian church. We didn't have a church government and money collected once a month was used to pay utilities, maintenance and improvements on the properties and buildings. Our preachers taught us to measure everything and compare it to the scriptures and that if even one thing is wrong, the whole is wrong (because that is what the Bible says). We were taught to live by the Word of God, not the word of man. God's word is truth. Man is prone to making things fit his own desires. Don't get me wrong, not one person have I ever known didn't have their faults and weaknesses. However, the best Christians I've known are those who do some soul searching and recognize those faults and try to over-come them (it is a battle of the spirit against the flesh, after all). That's what being a Christian is all about.
No Catholic Pope has ever stepped down from his Position in 600 years.
Each Pope sees thru his Papacy even though they have health problems until death.
There have been rumors that the Vatican has had bad dealings with the Vatican Bank. "Laundering Money", dealing with the Italian Mafia, etc. What is the truth?. There maybe a lot of shady deals going on.
There is more to Pope Bennedict's stepping down than anyone will ever know. Secrets.
My sympathies to all the Catholics who were shocked and so disappointed.
I would posit here that any organization or group of people who are secretive, judgmental, and who in their hearts do not trust the majority of people to do what is right will concentrate too much power in the hands of a few, thwart any attempts at outside transparency and peer-review, will become corrupt - whether this group is religious or secular.
Therefore, I no longer believe (as an atheist) that if religion did not exist, the world would be hunky-dory. People will continue to fight petty, stupid turf wars.
However, I have reconfigured my dream for this world: that everyone receives sound science education (whether they accept evolution or not, at least they must learn and understand what it is, not the strawman "arguments" against it), and that no one, anywhere, is ever threatened, abused, or killed for what they think inside of their heads. I think that diversity of thought (including religion) is to some degree natural - imagine what kind of world we could have if it were divorced from threat and fear.
I do, of course, have a lot of objections to the Catholic Church in particular for what I do see as rigid rules, fatuous hierarchy, and vainglory. I have recommended this film before: Jesus of Montreal (1989) and it is one of my favorite movies not because it is against Catholicism so much (although it does ask hard questions of the Church hierarchy in particular) but because of the humanity, humor, and universality of its message.
So the truth comes out. He was outted by the jews.
"But in late December, Bishop Bernard Fellay, head of the group, described Jews as “the enemies of the church” to widespread condemnation from within and outside the Catholic Church. Jesuit Father Federico Lombardi, the Vatican spokesman, reportedly said it was “absolutely unacceptable, impossible to define Jews as enemies of the church.”
Im glad someone in the Church is standing up to the jews. Many many of us have questioned the 2nd Vatican since it came out. It was filled with edicts that were totally against the teachings of Christ and the church. We always wondered WHO was behind the 2nd Vatican council. We knew it wasnt God.
Opinionated Smurf:
I grew up in a small Southern Baptist church alot like yours. Until I grew up enough to look at life for myself, I believed everything that came from the pulpit of my church without question. I soon after began to see that I was ignorant of other religions, even though my church had attempted to indoctrinate us members on the evils of every other Christian denomination, especially Catholicism. You don't, after all, ask a Baptist what a Catholic believes any more than you would ask a Catholic what a Presbyterian believes. You go to the source.
I went to RCIA, the Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults, at my local Catholic church, and the next Easter I was confirmed into the faith. I have never regretted my conversion. I believe in my church and my Christian faith.
The media is nobody's friend. Next week they could be saying ugly things about your church and making accusations to get people giving you the fish eye.
I'm no more the Vatican police than I am the solver of the world's problems. I rest, instead, in the absolute truth (and precept of nearly every religion on this planet) that you get what you give. What goes around comes around, and that is true for all of us.
Like how to cover up wide scale child rape.
Bernhard Fellay was the leader of the Pius Brotherhood which is not a regular group of the church. I don't agree with many of the things the Church does, but there are many religious people in the church who do good and help the poor and do follow what is right. There are always bad apples in any organization--especially at the top.
Hello folks,
When it comes to bull@!$%#, big-time, major league bull@!$%#, you have to stand in awe of the all-time champion of false promises and exaggerated claims, religion. No contest. No contest. Religion. Religion easily has the greatest bull@!$%# story ever told. Think about it. Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!
But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can't handle money! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more. Now, you talk about a good bull@!$%# story. Holy @!$%#!
But I want you to know something, this is sincere, I want you to know, when it comes to believing in God, I really tried. I really, really tried. I tried to believe that there is a God, who created each of us in His own image and likeness, loves us very much, and keeps a close eye on things. I really tried to believe that, but I gotta tell you, the longer you live, the more you look around, the more you realize, something is @!$%#ed up.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed. Results like these do not belong on the résumé of a Supreme Being. This is the kind of @!$%# you'd expect from an office temp with a bad attitude. And just between you and me, in any decently-run universe, this guy would've been out on his all-powerful ass a long time ago. And by the way, I say "this guy", because I firmly believe, looking at these results, that if there is a God, it has to be a man.
No woman could or would ever @!$%# things up like this. So, if there is a God, I think most reasonable people might agree that he's at least incompetent, and maybe, just maybe, doesn't give a @!$%#. Doesn't give a @!$%#, which I admire in a person, and which would explain a lot of these bad results.
So rather than be just another mindless religious robot, mindlessly and aimlessly and blindly believing that all of this is in the hands of some spooky incompetent father figure who doesn't give a @!$%#, I decided to look around for something else to worship. Something I could really count on.
And immediately, I thought of the sun. Happened like that. Overnight I became a sun-worshipper. Well, not overnight, you can't see the sun at night. But first thing the next morning, I became a sun-worshipper. Several reasons. First of all, I can see the sun, okay? Unlike some other gods I could mention, I can actually see the sun. I'm big on that. If I can see something, I don't know, it kind of helps the credibility along, you know? So everyday I can see the sun, as it gives me everything I need; heat, light, food, flowers in the park, reflections on the lake, an occasional skin cancer, but hey. At least there are no crucifixions, and we're not setting people on fire simply because they don't agree with us.
Sun worship is fairly simple. There's no mystery, no miracles, no pageantry, no one asks for money, there are no songs to learn, and we don't have a special building where we all gather once a week to compare clothing. And the best thing about the sun, it never tells me I'm unworthy. Doesn't tell me I'm a bad person who needs to be saved. Hasn't said an unkind word. Treats me fine. So, I worship the sun. But, I don't pray to the sun. Know why? I wouldn't presume on our friendship. It's not polite.
I've often thought people treat God rather rudely, don't you? Asking trillions and trillions of prayers every day. Asking and pleading and begging for favors. Do this, gimme that, I need a new car, I want a better job. And most of this praying takes place on Sunday His day off. It's not nice. And it's no way to treat a friend.
But people do pray, and they pray for a lot of different things, you know, your sister needs an operation on her crotch, your brother was arrested for defecating in a mall. But most of all, you'd really like to @!$%# that hot little redhead down at the convenience store. You know, the one with the eyepatch and the clubfoot? Can you pray for that? I think you'd have to. And I say, fine. Pray for anything you want. Pray for anything, but what about the Divine Plan?
Remember that? The Divine Plan. Long time ago, God made a Divine Plan. Gave it a lot of thought, decided it was a good plan, put it into practice. And for billions and billions of years, the Divine Plan has been doing just fine. Now, you come along, and pray for something. Well suppose the thing you want isn't in God's Divine Plan? What do you want Him to do? Change His plan? Just for you? Doesn't it seem a little arrogant? It's a Divine Plan. What's the use of being God if every run-down shmuck with a two-dollar prayerbook can come along and @!$%# up Your Plan?
And here's something else, another problem you might have: Suppose your prayers aren't answered. What do you say? "Well, it's God's will." "Thy Will Be Done." Fine, but if it's God's will, and He's going to do what He wants to anyway, why the @!$%# bother praying in the first place? Seems like a big waste of time to me! Couldn't you just skip the praying part and go right to His Will? It's all very confusing.
So to get around a lot of this, I decided to worship the sun. But, as I said, I don't pray to the sun. You know who I pray to? Joe Pesci. Two reasons: First of all, I think he's a good actor, okay? To me, that counts. Second, he looks like a guy who can get things done. Joe Pesci doesn't @!$%# around. In fact, Joe Pesci came through on a couple of things that God was having trouble with.
For years I asked God to do something about my noisy neighbor with the barking dog, Joe Pesci straightened that @!$%# out with one visit. It's amazing what you can accomplish with a simple baseball bat.
So I've been praying to Joe for about a year now. And I noticed something. I noticed that all the prayers I used to offer to God, and all the prayers I now offer to Joe Pesci, are being answered at about the same 50% rate. Half the time I get what I want, half the time I don't. Same as God, 50-50. Same as the four-leaf clover and the horseshoe, the wishing well and the rabbit's foot, same as the Mojo Man, same as the Voodoo Lady who tells you your fortune by squeezing the goat's testicles, it's all the same: 50-50. So just pick your superstition, sit back, make a wish, and enjoy yourself.
And for those of you who look to The Bible for moral lessons and literary qualities, I might suggest a couple of other stories for you. You might want to look at the Three Little Pigs, that's a good one. Has a nice happy ending, I'm sure you'll like that. Then there's Little Red Riding Hood, although it does have that X-rated part where the Big Bad Wolf actually eats the grandmother. Which I didn't care for, by the way. And finally, I've always drawn a great deal of moral comfort from Humpty Dumpty. The part I like the best? "All the king's horses and all the king's men couldn't put Humpty Dumpty back together again." That's because there is no Humpty Dumpty, and there is no God. None, not one, no God, never was.
In fact, I'm gonna put it this way. If there is a God, may he strike this audience dead! See? Nothing happened. Nothing happened? Everybody's okay? All right, tell you what, I'll raise the stakes a little bit. If there is a God, may he strike me dead. See? Nothing happened, oh, wait, I've got a little cramp in my leg. And my balls hurt. Plus, I'm blind. I'm blind, oh, now I'm okay again, must have been Joe Pesci, huh? God Bless Joe Pesci. Thank you all very much. Joe Bless You!
Compliments of Mr. George Carlin. RIP
LiberalsRCommies,
Many of us are standing up against the Catholic church and don't give a whit about the jewish religious beliefs. Your screen name and your comment paints the narrowness and paranoia living in your head.
Makes you wonder if what they say is true. That the Catholic church is the whore of babylon in the book of revelations. I liked John Paul 2 but this dude was just kinda creepy to me for some reason. No i'm not catholic.
Ahhh....The lack of knowledge......before I begin I would like to say that I was raised Catholic ...Currently I believe JC was the greatest philosopher mankind has ever seen......But I don't know if I would go as far as to call him the son of God.....I believe, if there is a God, that we understand very little about him....So.....With that in mind I would like to say several things............In all large organizations you have crime and corruption.....There are over 400,000 priests world wide....So yes you will get some bad apples (I am not making excuses for them....you just can't expect when dealing with such a large organization that people can't slip through the morale gaps....they should be punished severely for their crimes).....The Catholic church has done some bad things but many good. When the Western Roman Empire fell the Catholic Church stabilized western Europe....They kept mass slaughters and genocide from happening through fear of God....It was the only stabilizing moral force in western Europe from the end of the fourth century until modern day (19 century). You can dislike the Catholic Church but it is ridiculous to judge all 400K priests based on the actions of a few.........The Church has helping millions and millions of people since the time of Constantine......I know it is hard for the cons to understand....They can't remember the financial crisis in 07' (devalued middle class wealth by 1.7 trillion) and that was just a few years ago....Cons try to remove yourself from emotion and the situation and view it as a whole instead of blathering nonsense and making general statements about all people in this category....You guys just don't get it....You lost the minority vote the same way....Just keep running them off guys......You are a party of antiquity and will die on the vine soon enough.....Can't wait for a moderate conservative party.........
I am willing to bet that the reason why el pope retired to his books and prayer is not because of the butler, not because of his secret heart surgery which only involved putting a new pacemaker under his skin, not because he is so old ...none of the excuses! Just wait til the HBO Special on him hits the fan! Why else would a pope "retire" just before Lent?
LiberalsareCommies:
"But in late December, Bishop Bernard Fellay, head of the group, described Jews as “the enemies of the church” to widespread condemnation from within and outside the Catholic Church. Jesuit Father Federico Lombardi, the Vatican spokesman, reportedly said it was “absolutely unacceptable, impossible to define Jews as enemies of the church.”
I hate to disappoint you re: the quote: "I'm glad someone is standing up against the Jews".
Jews and Catholics are 2 closely tied Religions; not practicing each others Religion, but they have much in common with their own old held Traditions, close friendships; many Jews and Catholics who marry each other. It is a common known.
If the Vatican believes this is true, their own Catholic following does not. Absolutely NOT..
Actually AmusedMuse, it is "Don Ratz", not Consigliere. Consigliere is just an adviser.
TrustVerify is correct. There are many reasons that religion has come up with a list of tenets that they cite. Mankind started out trying to understand how and why things happened. When they couldn't come up with a logical and rewasonable explanation they wrote it off as a mythical being called "god". They had a rain god who controlled if and when it rained and how much because they couldn't make sense of the rain cycle. They had a sun god who controlled the sun and it cycle and who had control of the dimmer switch that regulated the seasons and the intensity. they had a different god for everything. When humans decided to prey on the ignorances of their fellow man they started calling it religion and exploited it to the fullest. Pay homage to the gods through sacrifices. Raw meat from the throngs. Then when they learned to control fire it resulted in "burnt offerings" - cooked dinner for everybody. Then man got greedy. He reasoned that if he could convince people to believe in one god he would be able to concentrate his lack of energy. After all, the reason he was a shaman was because he was too lazy to be a hunter/gatherer on his own. By concentrating in one god he was able to further minimize his efforts. And in so doing he more easily convinced people that they should honour god and he had to come up with less explanations. This greed morphed from offerings of material goods to money. The church needed more than an occassional meal(sacrifice). They wanted a steady diet and wanted a place of their own. And they were convinced not to worship idols. Instead of a golden calf, they should turn the gold over to the church. Instead of worshipping an idol they should worship in an idol (cathedral). God could not hear or understand the commn people unless they were led by a shaman in a clown suit inside an elaborate edifice. Thus began the perpetual circle of building bigger and bigger and dressing in more and more expensive clown suits. Tithing became necessary. Unchecked procreation was another measure of their greed. The more people there are the more tithes they received. There wasn't concern about the ability of the family to support itself - god will provide if you deserve it. It really meant god wants you to provide for him through me.
If god is that omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent why does he need intermediaries collecting cash and raping little boys?
Catholics -- or more accurately the Catholic Church -- make me alternate between laughing my @$$ off and puking my guts out. I puke when I think about them actually tolerating the criminal molestation of young boys (I've often wondered if that was an issue for a couple of Catholic guys I knew growing up), with the only "action" taken against those "men of God" who perpetrated that crime is to move them to another church...where they are free to do the same thing again.
I laugh when I see them in their silly costumes. If we didn't know about them -- imagine if the first planet we find with intelligent life on it had characters dressed up like that -- we'd do a double take, chuckle a bit, and think twice about our next move. The Pope and the Cardinals look ridiculous in their gaudy garb...they are hypocrites dressed in absurd attire, and personally I can't take them seriously.
As for the Pope...he's a doddering old coot, and a fraud, because he tolerates child abuse...
This pope was not to blame for the child molestations that took place nor did he try to cover them up. Cardinal Mohoney and others that obstructed those crimes are to blame. This pope did everything he could to get the Church moved in the right direction. He was listening to the right people. Namely the groups that opposed the 2nd Vatican Council which basically took the core beliefs of the Catholic Church and turned them upside down. ANY catholic over the age of 60 can tell you what they have been through. Satan's worldwide conspiracy is still in force and his minions are in control.
Amused Muse:
Aperfect description of the Osama Obama "administration!" Obama should step down for the good of all mankind!
Drama is the enemy of the Catholic Church. But then again, the Catholic Church never could counsel a soul out of drama's clenches..they can do an exorcism but yet not device drama's grip.. What a pity. I'd actually mean that if sarcasm wasn't the best survival skill.
Um Ferndoc, in case you didn't notice, this is an article about the Pope.
So, folks... Will we soon be seeing the pontification of the Antichrist?
Some folks think BarriO is, but he doesn't seem to 'pack the supernatural gear' that title requires.
Damn, the religion haters are out in force! Maybe the Pope just felt that he could not do his best for the Church and decided to get out and have some semblance of a life before he dies. Not everything in life is some kind of conspiracy.
Also, I am not a religious man, but, I do no condemn those who are. It seems that there is a large group of society who believe that they are superior and have the absolute right to denegrate all religion and then do their own "superiority dance"!
FERNDOC
Quite obtuse with no value......good job....no meat in your statement.......
Dan M-1100664
The Morale teachings of JC have great value and I respect those values....I just hate seeing hypocrisy and judgment from the "Christians" so full of hate for an old man.......
Perhaps, the conscience of this ex-Hitler-Jugend, who whitewashed 1000's of cases of molestation, has gotten the better of him.
He may be a more moral man as a civilian...rather than a Pope.
Such a sad commentary on Catholicism....
Hang on guys, there are more things that the Catholic church has done that are going to hit the fan soon - in Ireland, a report about the Magdalene Laundries is due to come out any day. Four different orders of nuns operated a string of Magdalene Laundries in various parts of Ireland. They were started in the late 1700's to "help" Protestant prostitutes become "respectable", but later, Irish police ended up bring girls that were kicked out of home, were wards of the court, girls who were pregnant without marriage, or even children of women who went against the church to these places. They were worked without pay at a laundry that benefitted the 4 orders, the Catholic Church, and the government of Ireland. They were stripped of their identities - often having their names changed, their hair was cut in a distinctive style (in case they ran off), and they were given rags to wear. One lady was sent there because her widowed mother refused to go to the church the following morning to marry the farmer she had been seeing - 3 girls and 2 boys were removed from the woman's home and declared wards of the state. When the woman skipped her maid duties (also not paid), she was subjected to a painful examination to make sure she was still a virgin, and then sent to the laundry for two years - only her American aunt's asking about her got her out because they were afraid the Americans would ask too many questions. Her brothers were abused and eventually died, she didn't know what happened to her sisters. Google Magdalene Laundry or Magdalene Asylum. The nuns didn't even apologize for their abuse and slavery.
Morality in the Catholic hierarchy? Never. It's not the morality that got to him; it is the amount of corruption exposed during his reign that has forced him to be put out to pasture.
What with all the corruption in the White House, perhaps Obama should follow the Pope's example.
@Trust and Verify. I was rasied Catholic and George Carlin spoke the truth about the church.
Thank you for posting his speech on organized religion, the Pope and the Vatican.
If I were Pope I would have the biggest garage sale anyone has ever seen. Money to go to charity. (not the church)
Talk about a bunch of "haters" (as the 20-somethings like to whine when scolded about their naive viewpoints on amoral issues).
As for the "whore of Babylon" as seen in the Book of Revelations, yes, the Catholic Church (the One, Holy, True Church) that is spoke of in the Bible (and has the lineage to the Apostles), has fallen from grace, THANKS TO THE ABOMINATIONS OF PROTESTANTS AND MODERNISM.
The "reforms of the 1960s, from the Second Vatican Council" have bastardized Catholic dogmas and doctrines, morality and the Mass itself. THe modernist and Protestant-induced changes to the Catholic Church since Paul VI and John XXIII has led to non-universality, a much more lax conscience on bishosp and priests (YES, the Catholic CHurch in America is horrifically modernist and less CHristian than many recent strip-mall "churches" of wishy-washy only-read-some-of-the-Bible rednecks).
The sexual predation found in many dioceses in the US should have fallen all squarely on the bishops in those dioceses. Not the pope. It was a witch hunt to go after the Pope for the regionalized decisions of arrogant bishops who made the cognant decisions to hide and/or empwer pedophiles in the lower ranks. All the amoral and non-Christian services and propaganda that is supported as ecumenicalism out of local dioceses likewise are to fall on individual bishops.
If your the top General of your Organization your are held accountable. If your that easily duped you should resign. If you can not read History of such an Organization for the past 1000 plus years then you have big problems. If they could get away with the burning, torture, beatings, imprisoning folks for other beliefs they would. Now they just sweep things under the rug and move the criminals around. If they knowingly do this they are just as guilty. We now live in the 21st Century were these atrocities are brought to bare. I could never be part of something that is so vile, corrupt and controlling as this Organization. Maybe the Pope is a good man but never looks beyond his surroundings and just a figure head. Just knowing the differences between right and wrong would be a good start. Live your life and NOT trod on others.
So you want to continue to excuse the pope.
The sexual predation occurred world wide, not just in the U.S. and the pope was aware and directed the cover up, as he directs all actions of the church.
I hate to break the news to some of you folks but priests/ministers/pastors molesting kids isn't just a Catholic thing or even a religious thing.
Gimmeabreak,
It was Ratzinger who went to JPII and offered to establish and run the office in the Vatican to investigate the allegations of abuse. And said allegations were buried. Remember, Ratzinger upon becoming Pope, accused the media of inflating the issue. And stating that women were not competent to be priest. And that a husband with AIDS was violating Church teaching (remember that encyclical?) if he wore a condom to protect his wife from transmission of the disease. The bishops and their dioceses are not as autonomous from Rome as you think.
No one said it was, but it is a group selling god and "doing unto others what you would want done to yourself", or you won't get that ticket to heaven.
They are fakes and hypocrites, in addition to being sexual predators of children.
season of catholic bashers on the loose, i doubt , if these posters are catholic themselves, and if they are, then they are oblivion to the religion of catholicism period.
DG_W:
What dumb comments. Nothing Intelligent to say about the Article Written, except how dumb the Catholic Leaders look in their garb--
Get back to the books, and start educating yourself--your writings reveal much about your intelligence.
RELIGION peasants believe it to be true , leaders believe it to be usefully , wise men know better.
So do you think those ridiculous hats they wear make them look intelligent? They are dressed like aliens in your choice of Star Trek series.
And no matter how you slice it, the Catholic church has done little to nothing about their serial child molesters disguised as "ministers". Two guys I knew as a kid were molested by their preacher, and each has serious psychological problems that have caused them to avoid women. So you can take your sanctimonious opinion and shove it up your @$$...
I would like an explanation of why Sister Lucia, of Fatima, was replaced by an imposter and her 3rd revalation
was forged. What was so damaging to the church, in that revelation, that caused a pope to lie ?
Catholics lie - period.
Elizabeth Aspen you are extremely ignorant.
So, Elizabeth, you're saying that the children who reported abuse were lying just because they're Catholics? Catholics lie - period??? I'm not a Catholic, but I'm disposed to give them the benefit of the doubt.
bird11...
sorry, but isn't that like the pot calling the kettle black. The Catholic "Religion" according to the Word of God, is an abomination. She is the Harlot that rides the backs of the nations. If the Lord God was in that organization (sorry can't call it a church) there wouldn't have been such abuse of children. And how can that organization be called Christian when it's pagan practices are over the top.
And by the way, lovely how the Pope's Bishop invokes Lucifer/Satan at their Xmas Mass/Ritual. Disgusting! You must be looking forward to Petrus Romanus....
stymie22...
The 3rd revelation was that Satan had entered the building , so to speak. They couldn't reveal that, oh no....lol. Satan has been in the Catholic organization since Constantine the pagan false convert.
That's why they were scrambling, like rats in the walls....
Lucifer/Satan is not invoked at Christmas Mass.
NorthernClimbs...
You have no idea what you are talking about. So, that makes you ignorant too. Try doing a little research before you just spew your odd thoughts. And I'm talking abour REAL research. Not just strange books and websites where you seem to get your information.
You wanta bet....but it wasn't Xmas, it was Easter. You would think that Catholics would get more involved to understanding the organization they belong to. The depths of wickedness is just about unfathomable.
Anyone can find it on YouTube. Can't deny when it's in living color. Search for....
Video of Benedict XVI invoking Satan goes viral (invocation at 27 minutes 30 secs)
I said REAL research.
bird11...
So everyone that isn't part of the Catholic harlot is ignorant? lol Like I said, a pot calling the kettle black. I have done research child. Research is my thing. always has been. I come from a family with over 10 Phd's. Guess which number in that ten that I am.
Why don't you do some research that isn't "from" the Catholic Religion. Or are you terrified that your walls will come crashing down when you find that ChristJesus IS NOT in the building, so to speak.? Idiots that can't see or accept that hell is their destination if they don't wake up....
Give it a rest.
Stymie, the 3rd part of the Fatima secret would not have been spoken only that one time. Everything else was spoken several times, and so this would too. Re-read everything about LaSalette, including the part that the Church says Melanie invented later. Re-read everything about Akita. It will all be there. The shock was that the Church was confronted, again, with the words of Our Lady they tried to bury from LaSalette.
bird11...
That piece at YouTube was convenient for those that don't like homework...like you. ;-)
All one has to do is know their Bible KJV and it's automatic that the Catholic organization isn't in there. All one has to do is study in depth, the history of that organization and it's automatic, ChristJesus is NOT there.
What you call Mary...is Isis. Do you know the big Obelisk with all the Egyptian markings that sits in front of the dome at the Vatican? Do you know that they Obelisk is the phallus of Osiris and the dome the womb of Isis? So those bass-turds at the Catholic Harlot put a Cross that is supposed to be Christ's up on top of Osiris's phallus? The Catholics sink lower than that. Claiming their "priests" have power OVER Christ? To pull him down from heaven to sacrifice Him over an dover again, calling My LordChristJesus, "The Eternal Victim"?
The Catholic organization is guilty for the murder of the Saints. They were complicit with Hitler to exterminate the Jews. You bass-turds believe you are the replacement for the Jews? What? does that ease your conscience for their extermination in the gas chambers? uuugghhhh! Pigs in mud is too kind to describe the likes of the Catholic organization!
Squire-1413747...
Not a chance!
Why? Are you a Catholic? I'm sorry for you if you are.....
Since when is You-Tube a legitimate or an authoritative source of information upon which to base any assertions?
@NorthernClimbs...
You obviously have a lot of beef against the Catholic Religion. What have the religion done to you that you even stoop so low as to associate it with Pigs (pigs in mud to be exact)? I may not be a practicing catholic but I do see value in its teachings (never mind the teacher). I've meet really awesome catholics in my life -- people who really made a difference in the communities that they belong.
And of course there are those priests who prey on the innocent. They should be punished and the church should stop protecting them!
In a modern world, religion (not just Catholicism) has lost most of its meaning, but I wouldn't discourage it. Religion still has a place in this world. There will always be people who will believe in a God, and if you are as learned as you say you are, I think you will agree with me that Jesus is a good one to follow. The life of Jesus as told in the 4 Gospels is a very inspiring one ( I don't care so much as to the other books as it is riddled with mysticism).
NorthernClimbs:
Your references are suspect and your understanding of the Mass are less than complete. You don't understand Communion, what it represents, and what reverence is given to it and all the Sacraments.
Your Nazi historical references also overlook the hundreds of Catholics that risked their lives for many during the Holocaust. The obelisk was brought to Rome, by the Romans, not the church as tribute to Rome after its' occupation of Egypt. The fact that you seem to have some psycho-sexual hangups with the obelisk is very clear, as well.
Does that mean the Catholic Church, run by humans, hasn't made horrible mistakes during its' history? Nope. Does it need to remain vigilant against those who would use the Church for their own personal gain? You bet. I'd like to see a human being, or any organization that is perfect. None are. It is their imperfection versus God's that allows us to ask for and seek out grace, understanding, and forgiveness.
I won't argue against things you're too blind to openly consider as alternatives to your interpretation. However, your hatred of all things Catholic comes through so clearly that little to no refutation is needed against your "learned writings."
Being on YouTube doesn't automatically make a video illegitimate. Unless of course you're a Catholick that has faith in the Father of Lies... ;-)
Or did they make it all up with actors? lol Moron...
Gosh Greg...
Spoken like one that denies the truth. Of course you would entertain that my resources are suspect. I can list them all for you, but it would take up quite the space. As well, it would be a waste of time since anything unCathoLick would be suspect to you....lol You must be a CathoLick. The Catholicks that live across the street from me with their 13 kids, (hey, a coven, perfect), they're the fundamentals of the CathoLicks. They say they're Catholicks not Christians. I said...I believe you.
And you're close to right Greg...
I despise the CathoLick religion and everything it stands for.
Because, I am a Christian.
The people in that religion, I don't hate, I Pity....
Idiot NorthernClimbs -guessing you don't have a PhD - number one, that is the proper format, Upper case P and D. Second, to make it plural, you would simply do that, add an "s." It is not possessive (apostrophe not needed). So, that tells me a lot about you already.
NJReader....
Religion is man-made and not a good thing. Faith is by ChristJesus. I am a Christian. I know my Bible, KJV. I study everyday. Yes, the Gospels are beautiful showing the life of Christ while he walked the earth.
However, the Epistles of Paul are about the Risen Christ and the Christian walk. To ignore the rest of the Word outside of the Gospels, calling it "mysticism", shows that you're not qualified to make a statement on the Faith of the Lord in ChristJesus. You obviously have no learning on the subject, admittedly by yourself. It in my eyes, I'm sorry to say, disqualifies your entire post.
Nevertheless, I do think you are sincere in your approach...it just is not correct...sorry.
Take Care....
Northern,
And here I thought Catholics didn't understand their own religion.
As both an adult convert and historian who has studied the Church as a major religion, political power, historical institution, etc., your assertion that the celebrant invokes the name of Satan during Mass, whether it be Easter, Christmas, etc., is pure fantasy. And a YouTube video is concrete evidence of such is utter nonsense. Read the liturgy for the particular Mass. While the Church is not perfect (the Pope has spoken ex cathedra only TWICE in the history of the Church) and has much to answer for some of its history, your assertions are bizarre. P.S. Stop getting your views of the Church from Dan Brown's books. While some of his concepts have some historical accuracy, most of it is pure fiction for entertainment.
NorthernClimbs is one of these finger-shaking true believers who have to "find the speck in another's eye before removing the log from their own." This is the Jehovah's Witness or strict Evangelical line, that Catholics are devil worshippers and horrible pagans.
As an atheist myself, I detest the whole "You're not a real Christian" crap whether it's aimed against Catholics, Christian Scientists, or Mormons. If someone calls him- or herself a Christian, I take that person at his or her word and do not engage in purity squabbles. Most people no matter their religion (including non-Abrahamic or "pagan" believers) or lack of it are good, moral, and decent, and the world is not the scary and corrupt place that people like NorthernClimbs will tell you that it is.
Idiot NinaH....where is your PhD?
Again, dispute what I say, not what I spell. oops forgot to cap typing 60 words a min....
I have 2 degrees in Anthropology and Linguistics. My Nephew is partner with Gerry Spence, my other one is a district judge, my twin sister in FireSciences, a FireChief in CA, my other sister Wildlife Biology, Mother-inLaw 2 PhD's in Biology and English Lit., sister in law, and is a professor of English studies....shall I go on... there's more. Dartmouth is begging my 16 yr old to school there. he took SAT's last year and pretty much aced them being in the top 98%. His IQ is 148 and he belongs to Mensa.
What are your stats? jealous?
If you have not read "Codeword Barbelon" by P.D. Stuart, you will not truly understand what's going on with the Pope's resignation. According to Stuart, the Pope is controlled by the secret society of Jesuits. The book can be obtained from the library, the internet, or any bookstore. But let me warn you that the information in the book will rock your mind.
Wrong again LAkid...
I've never read DanBrown....he's an idiot....lol
I read non-fiction...Actually right now I'm just starting "Web of Debt" by EllenHodgsonBrown, J.D.
I just finished "Godel, Escher, Bach: On Eternal Golden Braid" by Douglas R. Hofstadter, an excellent book.
We don't do TV as well, we haven't had it hooked up for at least the last 15 yrs, it's probably the difference to 95% of the people posting here. We're readers...most here are obviously not.
Northernclimbs....
When Greg Shep wrote
He was being nice....and his words were dead on.
I am a Christian that goes to no church building at all, period. The modern churches do not preach from Bible, but from their bank accounts.
We don't belong to a "brand", we belong to Christ. I gave my life to him only 12 years ago. I'm not a jehovahs' witness or anything other than Christian. One of my two best girlfriends, one for 40 yrs a Christian, one for 20 yrs that is a continuing Budhist. I have more of a problem with Christians that are in the modern churchs today, than I do with those that are without or "unsaved".
Campdog:
And why is it you can't write out your own response? lol
You people are so entertaining...hahaha
NorthernClimbs. Speaking to you is really a waste of time. Your mind is set and closed from seeing the truth. I can see the truth, it's you who cannot. Fact; at the time of Hitler, both Pope Pius the XI and XII openly opposed Hitler and by the end of his impact, The catholic church saved 700,000-800,000 souls. Again that is fact. When Catholics say that Jews are the enemy of the church it is because they do not recognize Jesus Christ and this goes for Hindus, Buddhist, pagans and Muslims. The church should easily and openly say this, but too many people want to run to momma because it hurts there feelers. LOL!!!
The reason some people say they're Catholic and not Christian is because, now days anyone can call themselves Christian. Gays, Abortionist... even people of other sects call themselves Christian. It's harder to be adamant about one's faith in today's world.
Again, historically you are wrong. The Catholic Church is the only church that can take our faith and belief to Christ. Following our lineage of Popes, we can trace everything back to Christ. No other protestant faith can do this. That is fact. No Baptist, Mormon, Lutheran...etc can even come close. They can only go back to those that started them, Luther, Smith... etc. Those beliefs weren't even around until the 1600's, Martin Luther lied to people, used the printing press to change the bible and remove books to that contradicted his beliefs. That is fact. Also, using the King James Version of the bible not only proves the Catholic Faith but also disproves, all the other Protestants.
In regards to those Protestants, there are many good people but even some of them have been lied too, some of our priest were lying also. A few priests did a horrible act that is undeniably horrible and even worse some superiors tried to cover it up. This is a mistake and Pope Ratzinger admitted this and was putting things in place to fix our error. The cause of all this though is Vatican II. The new Pope must stop the modernist movement and return to tradition. 100 years ago, we were warned to not do this but they did it anyway and this is what happened. No is the time to rebuild.
Jesus had many followers and when he stated to the Pharisees that if they do not eat of his flesh or drink of his blood, they could not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Now the Church must realize that they need the strength to say, all Vatican II acts must stop now. Yes, we will lose followers and we will be persecuted but it is a necessity. We can no longer continue to compromise with evil. The truth is the truth and sometimes it hurts.
We as a human race will be punished both good and bad for acceptance of sin in everyday life as normal or as ok, or even worse "times are different so they must change." Sin is Sin. That doesn't change.
I pray Ratzinger finish his term and do what needs to be done. Return the church, morally, truthfully and visibly.
One last thing, Our Blessed Mother Mary, the Mother of God, is our greatest gift, do not be so quick to dismiss her, even now she weeps for us.
The reason some people say they're Catholic and not Christian is because, now days anyone can call themselves Christian. Gays, Abortionist... even people of other sects call themselves Christian.
Hi Leopole7,
I looked up the book you posted/suggested...it looks very interesting! It's in my cart now at Amazon. I bought 6 new books yesterday from them...lol...looks like I have some more to go. ;-)
Thanks and Take Care!
One thing this blog shows...Why is your religion such a freakin contest? Why does someone always tout "we are better than you" through the lines?
Can it be less relative than starting a war over, or if it is so great...why all the secrets? Why is your "book" better than my "book".
Nobody wants to get along...and as long as men are in power....there will always be the testosterone push to compete and to rule and be better and be sexually motivated creeps, against men, women and children.
Is there a class men can take...to dial it down? If to conquer another peoples/culture because they are not yours is the most enormous ego boost of all. To Kill innoncents....is our world's shame.
Men, go get some pills. What you have done since the beginning of recorded time...is not working, nor is your ego gun thing either.
@NorthernClimbs
Admittedly, I cannot hold a candle to your understanding of the bible (despite attending catholic schools from kindergarten to college, I am still confused to a lot of what is written in there).
Funny thing about faith is that everybody thinks that theirs is the right one. I have friends that are non-christians and yet they have lived their lives in what one might consider as "very christian". They loved their God above all else and they love their neighbors as they love themselves. They are as honorable and respectful as any other good christian out there. Faith in other God or Gods can be just as good.
Well la de da, Northern Climbs, I have two degress, my husband has one, my mother-in-law two (Anthro and Linguistics as well), my father-in law has one, my step-mother in law has a couple ,my dad had one, and my sister has two, my cousin has a couple, my uncle has one...I could go on. So what? Our poo still stinks like everyone else. And the bigots among us are still bigots no matter how many letters follow their name and whether they capitalize them properly.
NorthernClimbs sounds like she belongs to Westboro.
Joey-2843551...
You say it's a waste of time speaking to me and yet you write a diatribe? You're not at all conflicted are you...lol. Double-minded speaking out of both sides of your mouth?
And I pray he rots in his grave. The pope is a hopelessly wicked man and will be judged for it.
I'm not a Protestant, I'm not a CathoLick, I'm a simple Christian woman, that is cherished by those that know me, both saved and unsaved. What do you do in charity, personally, to those without? Probably not a whole lot.
When's the last time you gave over half your large garden to the senior center, or gave handwoven blankets to union gospel mission for the homeless, hospice work for the dying? I'm a wife, mother, sister, daughter, friend, weaver, gardener and my life is to serve. Everything I earn, have... is meant for others...no bones about it.
While you kneel to a pope that claims he is the "stand-in", "in stead of", "replacement", for my Lord in ChristJesus?..not hardly... a pope that supports the tragic abuse of children by his audible silence....
and you still make a row over me because of my abject disgust over the Catholic Heresies? Peter was NEVER in Rome. Historically...he died an old married man in Jerusalem. James, the brother of Jesus, was the head of that Church in Jerusalem. You're just ignorant and have sold yourself to the Catholick lies, ie the Father of Lies.
You're in some serious trouble...
Impressive stats for a family, yet, I personally believe that God looks into a person's heart and discerns whether they seek first the kingdom of heaven or not. Being highly educated is a wonderful thing, but if a person ignores how Jesus knocks at their door and does not accept that which is clearly stated in John 3:16 then all the education and PhD's in the world will do you no good. Jesus makes it abundantly clear how the judgement works in John 3:19-21, the light(Jesus) has come into the world, but people love the darkness more than the light because their deeds were evil. Jesus goes on to say that those practicing evil hates the light and will not come to the light for they do not want their evil deeds exposed, but those who know and do the truth come to the light so that their deeds may clearly be seen because they were done in God.
Remember too, that God says, "vengeance is mine, I shall repay" Romans 12:19 God will exact His perfect justice on the Catholic Church in His time.
Josephine-1266256...you're a pitiful liar.
Oh.. just happened to be the same degrees I have? lol And then all your relatives...lol..and you can't name the degrees? lol
And 1971amyb....
child, read my posts before you make an ass out of yourself. We do homechurch. I wouldn't be caught dead in a church like Westboro...
We don't do the modern churchs' that use the modern perverted texts. They preach their bank accts more than they do proper scripture....
Amen Ben Cohen!
Worldly wisdom is foolishness in God's eyes. Although I gave a lot of myself to get that education, I was as lost as they come. I also spent years, 25 of of those lost yrs, in the study of the Hebrew Mystics, the Hebrew Letters and the Gematria of them.
I gave my life to the LordJesus only 12 yrs ago...and have been hungry for the Word ever since. I also owe surviving a rare untreatable neuroendocrine cancer, the knife is my friend for the last 6 long yrs. I'm one of three in the USA alive....I owe it all to the Grace of God. Even though now, I've got severe RA and now a brain tumor as the trade-off...I have no complaints. I ride the pain like a surfer does the big waves in Hawaii, joyfully, :-) for I know who has me in HIS most capable Hands. HIS Grace is more than sufficient for me!
PS..I also know that vengenace is not mine. I just get a bit tiffy at times...at the idiocy...
GodBless BenCohen!
Northern, Not going to get into an argument with you about Catholic liturgy as it is quite apparent your only source is some YouTube video, not an examination of the actual book used during Mass. I repeat, the Church does not have a perfect history - no major monolithic institution does, but the basis for your assertions is inaccurate.
The crazies are out in force now.
Thank god I'm an atheist ;)
to Joey-2843551
You wrote: "The catholic church saved 700,000-800,000 souls."
I wasn't aware that the Catholic religion went to the Cross, Died and Rose again. So you take the Glory away from the LordJesus to give to the likes of the Catholic religion?
You wouldn't happen to be a Heretic would you.
ringsize42...
You thank "God" you're an atheist? I think you just may be.... "confused"? lol
NorthernClimbs
You are a deluded moron....Sorry someone had to say it.....Peter was the rock from which Christ built his church upon....and he was Pope #1...Sorry to have to correct your word vomit......King James, who wrote your bible, was gay.....Look it up.....So you just basically do not know what you are speaking of...Catholicism was the foundation for the Christian faith........I am not a Catholic just referring to historic fact.....Constantine....whom you mentioned earlier....was responsible for the standardization of the written bible....Which is everything you base your faith on....Which makes you an oxymoron...(no pun intended)
Yes Northern Climbs there are others who have the same degrees as you. I could list all of those held by my family members, but I didn't think taking up space here was appropriate. It's easy to call someone a liar isn't it?? Maybe I should "call pants on fire!" There are also lots of other people who do good community service. I rarely ask about their politics or their religion. I applaud your service to your community. More people need to be involved.
Let me guess.... your PHD was not in history and you received it in a box of cracker jacks? Kids today....you give them the books...they eat them
@ NorthernClimbs
You pray the Pope rots in his grave? How very Christian of you.
Through a series of arrogant remarks, logical fallacies, and dumbfounding ignorance, you've shown your remarkably dim understanding of Christianity.
You're a 'home practice' Christian? How utterly arrogant to presume that your interpretation of the Bible supercedes 2,000 years of study and consensus by men and women far beyond your mental capacities. And you use the KJV, which is a trash translation by the way. Pretty turns of phrases in Ye Olde English doesn't make it highly accurate for biblical study. Not to mention that the Bible that you use to guide your brand of Christianity is a book that was compiled and kept safe by the Catholic Church for ~1,000 years before the Protestant Reformation. How sure are you that it's even the accurate Word of God anymore after all those years in the hands of the "Whore of Babylon?" Real smart of you.
NorthernClimbs
Please take it easy on the Catholics. When you are born into a religion no matter what it is, its hard to think outside the box. I certainly agree that the time for milk has passed but ease into the meat. Always think to yourself, "But for the grace of God go I."
Thanks. Michael
Northern Climbs, you are an IDIOT! You so easily insult any religion that you are not a part of with a haughty ignorance that is breathtaking! There is no one true religion, but, there are many good and even great ones. By vomitting your vile you just turn more people off of religion, especially whatever one you profess to follow. The perfect religion is whichever one makes an individual better in their lives. I hope that you can look into your heart and try to find good in life instead of hate and vitriol!
This is horrendous and inflammatory bullsh*t, NorthernClimbs.
The YouTube clip is out of contest, or at least the original poster quotes/interprets the Latin fully incorrectly in an effort to sow hatred and lies to what was being chanted.
You, the arrogant, "I am my own savior" prick then here spreads the lies as truth! For starters, the word "lucifer" of itself means "light", but the name Lucifer does indeed refer to the first fallen angel (i.e. Satan). The phrase highlighted in that video is talking about the destruction of Lucifer (his grasp over mankind) into flames with the appearance of (Easter morning's) morning star. And that God the Father's Son rose from the dead (at sunrise on Easter), thereby shedding (offering) His light for the salvation of the human race.
You'd not know what the f*ck you're reading in the Bible, since clearly it's all personal interpretation, and you'd not know CHristian liturgy or symbolism or the glory of elevated chants to God...
Go back into your hole and pray for your soul.
die fuc king SPAMMER
i think its sad that people look up to the pope like he is god or something, he is a sick looking perv. im not a religious person and have no problem with folks worshipping who they want but the catholic religion is some of the strangest and most hypocritical.
@northern lol...you should get a job or if you have one, work little harder. If you have time to post so you must be slacking...anyways... your just a troll so put down your ipad or w/e and stfu people like you that love to troll are the reasons i dont usally post or read commentsj because whenever i do...your ulgy troll face is there
@ Northern: Just a hint, but these message boards do not count in the "publish or perish" doctrine held by those with PhDs. Not that I disagree with your criticism of Catholicism, but your so-called Christian beliefs are just as useless and archaic. Basically, there are two types of people in this world: those who allow themselves to be brainwashed by religious dogma to the point that anything else causes cognitive dissonance, and those who have better things to do with their time than trying to interpret an ancient book for the purpose of finding answers to questions that nobody can positively answer (notice I said, "book," instead of "bible" so as to include sheep from other flocks...including L. Ron Hubbard's). In closing, I have a suggestion: if you're the good Christian that you say you are, then forgive Catholics for trespassing upon you like you say you will every time you recite your lord's prayer.
I personally question the integrity of an organization that hides the replacement of a pace maker cell. If a menial everyday surgery is kept secret what else is being hidden?
LiberalsRCommies and Northernclimbs are obviously closeted homosexual lovers who claim to be "Christian."
Northern Climbs
You may have some good points, and have pre-detemined that "Catholicks" are the bad ones due to the sins of the past and corruption of the institution, but are you prepared to be judged by the same standards that you are so ready to judge others? Why is it that you forsake the gathering of the saints? "Saints does not refer to any "organization". Why do you find it necessary to tell anyone that you give vegetables away? Does that make you feel better about yourself or more a part of the "good" part of society? Should our right hand know what our left hand it doing? Should we boast about any good we do, or should we do it for the true reason Christ requested we give? "Love" It is hard for anyone with a PhD to accept all of the teachings of Christ, so I commend you for your faith, but I ask you to examine your motives for telling everyone that you have a PhD. If you truly do have this higher education, won't it show itself in your communication skills and not need bragged about to make others feel inferior. Christ could have spent time with the learned while He make His journey here, but chose to spend His time with those whose hearts he could see were true and full of LOVE. As far as the choice of the Catholic church to harbor child molesters, each of the guilty will suffer a horrible judgement as was warned by Christ Himself concerning harm brought against the innocent children! It is time the leaders of the church take action and stop the cause of this sin. Allow priest to marry and fulfill their sexual desires in a healthy loving relationshiop rather than trying to fulfill a void through perversion. Lastly if everyone who calls themselves "Christian", or "Catholic" would remember their is an example of how to live life and spend time with those even though we don't agree with their theology, we might all enjoy an eternity together :) That example is Love thy Neighbor as Thyself. We can all learn when we first learn how to love those around us by truly Loving not just using Words to say we are living for Christ!
Blame the foot servant - that's the ticket! Strange Ratzringer (Pope Benny) kept his Hitler's Nazi Youth Movement membership card all these years.
Love it bobs ur uncle....lol. You're right, sadly...
Bobs your uncle. Let some foriegn country force you to do something -as a child that you don't like and then years later join something that completely opposes it. Then, again years later, let people throw that in your face, even though you had no control to stop it but the sense to do what's right the minute you had the chance.
Troubled by the butler revealing secrets, but not by the global pedophilia ring he commanded. What a guy!
maybe he is leaving because he has skeletons in his closet that are about to be exposed or he simply wants to die in peace and privacy smelling the garden flowers instead of the church incense. Looking like drag queens, all these centuries sends a bizarre message to the crowds. The followers here are as brainwashed as the peasants in North-Korea, in a different way. Brainwashing is brainwashing.
Perhaps he thought the BSA would make pedophelia legal under pressure from business.
Maran...look up pedophilia, then look up homosexuality, and you'll find that they are NOT THE SAME THING.
ECF2222: I know the difference but longterm, I think the open-closet approach will result in both within the BSA. Just saying, IMHO.
Devn, There is no evidence that Benedict, while as Bishop overseeing the office in the Vatican charged with investigating the abuse scandal, "commanded" the "global pedophilia ring" as you put. Yes, he created and ran the office responsible for investigations, and thus was in a position to bury such evidence (and it has come out, especially after the allegations against Cardinal Mahoney in LA, that this happened), but no one has said and no evidence produced, that he ran a pedophilia ring like some pimp.
The Catholic Church is a haven of predatory behaviour towards children and also a haven for the homosexual activities of these "Queens". I have zero problem with being gay, but I have very serious problems when a "church" teaches intolerance of "that sin" while practicing it on a grand scale. Just look at these grown men with their pedicures, their silk slippers, their gowns and robes, their headdresses, and their adorning jewelry. Can we say what they really are? they're "Queens". No wonder they're losing attendance by huge %'s yearly, it is literally a dying religion.
JCB, I really think that you need to look at the biggest location of child sexual abuse in the last century is not the Catholic Church, it is the liberal bastion of education! I cannot go more than a few weeks without hearing about some teacher bedding down a 13 year old student! The fact that this is one of the biggest backers of our President may have something to do with your "lack of clear vision", huh?
JCB, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. The Church is NOT a "haven of predatory behavior towards children and also a haven for the homosexual activities". While there are bad apples, to blanket every member of the clergy with such a statement is inaccurate and does those priests and nuns who are exemplary a disservice. I can count priests not only as spiritual advisers but friends. They are compassionate, caring, funny, and very human individuals. And some of them are gay. Just like some of my friends who have other professions. The Church is not losing attendance because of the "Queens" as you call them but because of a general decline, especially by young people, in attendance for ALL faiths. You need to separate the vestments worn during Mass and other official Catholic ceremonies from the normal clerical attire - clerical collars, etc. Many wear them with jeans.
I'm not apologizing by all means for the wrongs committed by the Church, but your comments have no basis in fact. And to base your negativity solely on garments worn during the celebration of Mass shows your complete ignorance of Catholicism. Which most posters on this story have demonstrated. I'm waiting for the comments about killing babies and drinking their blood during Mass. Which is why historically non-communicants were shown the door after the readings.
JCB -- you state many things in hyperbole to the level of libel! Practicing it on a "grand scale"? Bullsh*t.
Are you so bigoted and naive that there are no ministers of (wimpy) Protestant churches also not getting caught up in pedophilia? FOllow your state and local news, and you read/hear of them! There's just no organized hierarchy with all those 'fly by night' "christian churches" that break away from each other like there's no tomorrow.
Cardinals and popes do indeed have their various robes and garments, but where do YOU get off calling them all "queens" (aka "fags/homos"?) in your ignorance and bigotry. So, which "queens' are the ones guilty of the sins against children? You have planted the seed of false accusation, prick.
Explain your bull@!$%#.
season of catholic bashers on the loose. these vile posters are not catholic themselves, and if they are catholics, they are oblivion on the religion of catholicism.
No need to drinker, and you need a lot more drinks to kill the bug that's up your rear. Religion is for the weak, answering questions for sheep like you who need answers to questions that have no answer. Typical hypocritical post by a religious kook, who has anger issues. Nice Christian post by the way, keep up the good work, with your pias vitriol, and your condemnations, you sound like an Islamist to me. Check out anger management pal you need to . Now go on in your confessional box and ask you local Queen to forgive your sins.
Hey Dan, I always wanted a teacher like that, a bunch of lucky boys indeed. Of course in this country we have that double standard, if it was a 13 year old girl, we'd lock them up for life. But I will agree boys are much different than girls in that position. But with the Priest thing it's always YOUNG boys.
@EastToWest.I was raised Catholic and I agree with the people who are accusing the Catholic Church and the Vatican of their many misdeeds. I was confirmed by the Bishop in the Cleveland diocese and my Father was a fourth degree K-of-C member so I know of what I speak.
I left the church in college because I couldn't tolerate the pedophilia scandal that was breaking and I refused to give any more to a group that was so corrupt. There might be good people in the church but the higher ups are definitely corrupt and should be prosecuted as criminal enterprise for their actions.
I now consider myself both an athiest and a secular humanist because you do not need to believe in asupernatural god to live a moral and ethical life.
Epistemologist, great post.
Watch 'Mea Maxima Culpa' on HBO. The Rat was put in charge of ALL sex abuse complaints against the church before he became Poop and what did he do about them? NOTHING. Shoved them under the proverbial carpet. The Catholic church is a despicable, corrupt, rotten corporation of thieves and pervs. Anyone who tells me they are a Catholic, I run as from them as fast as I can.
Hey ElizabethAspen....
I don't think you're extremely ignorant...I think you're smart and savvy...lol. The "Rat" probably had his own "boys". I don't doubt it.
Many of us knew this pope would resign or be murdered and were just waiting for it. It came sooner than I thought.
You should read "Petrus Romanus: The Final Pope Is Here" by Tom Horn. Great book, a good portion based on the Prophecy of the Popes from Malachy. There's a lot more nasty to the Roman Pagan Religion that's called Catholic. Interesting enough, the "one" to come is already in the upper eschalon of the religion. That's when things are going to get really crazy.
The rate of pedophilia is no higher in the church than outside the church. I have no dog in this fight as I don't believe in a god, but it's ridiculous to paint all Catholics in such a way.
Matt, that may well be true of the general populace/membership; except however with those sworn to celibacy, and they are promising to do exactly the opposite of what the deity they profess to worship created and commanded as to their purpose... to "go forth and multiply". To do so, apparently warps a man's mind; thus creating monsters who become predatory to children. Just another example of how flawed and hypocritical the human species really is sometimes.
Elizabeth and Northern - you guys are two nuts in the same shell. Let it go.
Deb P.....
No can do.... You would rather no one points out the crap in the Catholic whatever. It's not a church...
You cannot escape what is to come if you're in her...the Harlot of Bablylon. If you're a Catholic, you are culpable for the murder of the Jews by Hitler, since you're pope at the time was party to it. The Catholic sins reach to the depths of hell.
Try following ChristJesus and not a putrid old man that is soon to rot in his grave. Hallelujah!!
Northern - I'm not a big fan of the Catholic church either; nonetheless, you're nuts. Also, would love to know where you got your Ph.D., considering you can't spell.
The number of pedophiles hiding in the church is not nearly as important as the policy of shuffling, hiding and protecting them.
DebpP- Are you suggesting the abuse scandal is not taking place?
"The rate of pedophilia is no higher in the church than outside the church. I have no dog in this fight as I don't believe in a god, but it's ridiculous to paint all Catholics in such a way."
Maybe true, but the Catholic Church as an organization acted criminally by shuttling pedophile priests from parish to parish, rather than reporting them to the police. This is a systemic problem within that church, not just a matter of a few bad apples.
Matt: As a conservative Catholic I have heard that argument many times before, and I think it is an embarrassment for the Church to make it. We expect much more from our religious. Despite the fact that many of the people on this thread are either ignorant or have an axe to grind, there has never been a good explanation for the abuse cover up.
goodforgoodnesssake:
No Catholic I know denies there were abuses. The cases being brought to light now are, almost always, a decade old or older. The parishioners were horrified by the many abuses. They changed the church at that time. My family knows a great deal about this because some of our donated land that was used for a Summer Camp was used as "shifting assignment" for these predators.
Let me pass along some of the changes that have made the Church safer:
No Safe Harbor: At the first sign or even allegation of abuse, the offender is removed and the local police informed (not the Church hierarchy first, as it was in the past).
Background Checks: Extensive background checks for anyone who could ever be left alone with children. This goes from Priests to day care volunteers.
Prosecution: Anybody found guilty goes to jail. Anyone covering up, or moving the predator to another unsuspecting Parish, should as well.
Education: All children are taught to tell someone, and then another person, too. We don't want children to feel they are wrong, unheard, or worse, being kept around those that abused them just because those people are in positions of Church or Lay authority.
Because of these changes, I feel very comfortable with my children attending Church functions and education. I wish all other public and private entities (sports, school, etc.) were as thorough in their protections. Will this absolutely prevent abuse, of course not. But it is important to be on the forefront of proactive steps to stop it before it begins (if possible), to hold accountable those that try to harm children, and to try and make the victims whole (via money and more importantly psychiatric assistance) and welcome to participate in the Church again.
I want my children to know the service aspect of the Church and feel a part of societal solutions to poverty and taking care those without power or influence. I want them to know that the Church is a human organization and has made mistakes, but that acknowledgement of and responsibility for mistakes is what makes people better. And since we are the Church, learning from our errors makes the Church better, as well.
Northern,
Once AGAIN you show your complete ignorance of history. There is no evidence that Pious was complicit with Hitler in the extermination of the Jews. Could he have done more, as Pontiff, to prevent 6 million Jews being slaughtered? Yes. Could he have been more vocal about the abomination of the Holocaust? Yes. But remember, priests died in those camps, too. Convents hid Jewish children from Nazis. If you MUST blame institutions for complicity in the Holocaust, then add the U.S government to that list. The camps were not a secret to everyone.
Prober, Glad to see you are up to date on the causes of pedophilia. Didn't realize that DSM IV considers celebacy to be a factor in creating a pedophile. Thought that was their sexual nature. Like heterosexuality and homosexuality.
you people jump on the pedifile priest issue because you have nothing else. There are bad people in this world, and suprise some of these people do something about it, they hide and they lie. Some behind the catholic robe, some behind the protestant pulpit and some behind their wives. The church was wrong for covering this up but don't think for one minute that if they knew they would have allowed these men to become priest. The church was lied to also.
LaKid, the popes were out spoken about hitler. there was a white line painted around Rome and no clergy was allowed to leave other wise they would get killed. And still the pope and his priest hid and saved 700-800,000 jews from being slaughtered and they did this in secret. This is fact and even confirmed by the jews themselves.
GregShep,
I thank you for your calm, level-headed, logical, well-researched responses in this corkscrew of a thread.
Billy Mike,
I got my degree at UCSD in Lajolla CA.
LAkid...
There is evidence of it, that the Catholic religion was involved in Hilters' extermination of the Jews. As were the Muslim Brotherhood.
It's bonafide history, but maybe not Catholic history... ;-)
Well Greg, you don't know all Catholics do you? There's Bill Donahue who has defended the church and has regularly said the victims of abuse were liars out for a quick pay day. As for those changes you talked about, they have not been universially implement and have been ignored when convenient. The RCC is still covering up their raping priests and ignoring secular law when it becomes inconvient for them.
Out of curiousity, how do you think your church is taking responsibility? I heard nothing about a mass excommunication for those responsible for the crimes it has committed. They have not stopped lying about contraception in AIDS-torn Africa. They are still demanding special exemption from secular law. They are still pushing for anti-heresy laws. They are still demanding an Indian skeptic be arrested for disproving one of their miracles. They still have not made up for their part in the enslavement of Irish women and girls in the 20th century. They still put their reputation above basic decency.
You see, Joey, there's a lot more than perverted priests to use against the corrupt organization known as the Catholic Church.
Well lets see how many posting here are Catholic, or are catholic in name only. Your hypocritics and so is the crap NBC provides for your weak little minds to ponder. MORE children are abused by public school teachers then priest. LOOK IT UP. If you do not know how the Church,( yes the true church, PETER Upon this ROCK I Build MY CHURCH) operates SHUT your mouth.
Church doctrine will not change on things like HOMOSEXUALITY, ( you know gay love) Abortion (killing children in the womb) WOMEN PRIEST ( Jesus and the Apostles were men) get over it, or go elsewhere. The church will not change just as God will not change. HIS LAWS ARE HIS LAWS.
I think we all need to give a few bucks for a donation to Northern Climbs to buy a new "tin foil hat"!
Northern,
There is NO evidence supporting your assertion that the Vatican participated with the 3rd Reicht in the slaughter of Jews during WWII. If you believe your allegation to be true, please provide verifiable, concrete, 1st source and academically vetted documentation. And not some YouTube video or diatribe written by someone who has an ax to grind with the Church.
When I look at the Pope, and honestly, no disrespect intended, all decked out in gold, fine fabrics, crowned with that elaborate miter, carrying the gold-laden (or maybe solid gold) staff, commanding a level of respect that to my mind exceeds worship, people bowing and kneeling before him, kissing his hand, etc., I can't help but find it impossible to reconcile that, or even relate that, to the humble image of Jesus Christ as He is presented in the Bible, or to any of the Apostles.
And although the way the Pope is treated is the worst of it, it's very close to that in many other mainstream Christian denominations. It appears that Christianity has evolved into a form of idolatry, a situation about which I cannot imagine God is pleased.
I love your comment. It points out there is a culture to Catholicism that has nothing to do with faith, but that is what those outside the religion see first.
Tao and quilter
I agree with you. Except I don't think it evolved into idolatry. One of the reason I think that Catholicism has been so widely suceessful is that it combined monotheism with polytheism. One God -but divided into a triad of dieties - with lots of symbols (surrogate idols) and saints (thought idols - after all, believers pray directly to them for intervention). That way, the ancient need for many gods is satisfied, but the more modern approach (a single GOD) is satisfied also. If you want to look at wine and wafer as a stand in for scarifice, that would then about cover everything people have desired from religious practices. Obviously, there are good moral teachings mixed in (since that is the purpose of most faiths...to help people lead better lives by being better people). It's extremely clever.
Excellent comment, TaoMokoda! I cannot state what you did so eloquently. But, when I see people kissing rings and statues I have to wonder if they have forgotten the basic 10 Commandments, in particular that we should not worship idols.
A pope is simply a human, elected by other humans to head an organization. As such, he is prone to error, as we all are. Adorning this person in gold - kissing his ring - sounds to me like idolatry.
We can respect each other, without having to treat someone as a God.
Hi Tao...
Great post! All the "Denominations" are built on and by Pride. They will fall.
Religion is where the humble are done away with. Faith is where the humble are nurtured to grow in the knowledge of the LordGod.
There is a big difference between the "religious" and the "faithful".
The Pope is Jesus' successor. People were healed from touching his robes and even his shadow and even Peter the first Pope, people were healed from touching his robe and even his shadow. Why? Because, the Pope is Christ’s presence here on earth. Peter was given the keys to the kingdom of heaven and he passed those keys on to Pope Leo and so on and so on. Kissing the hands of our Pope is a sign of respect, both for Christ and Christ’s authority. He was elected Pope, just as God gave authority to Pontius Pilot over Jesus, God gave that authority to the Pope. We kneel in love and in that adoration of God. Do you not kneel at your bedside to pray? Are you praying to the bed or the pictures on the wall? No, not at all and neither are we. Are we worshiping the Pope, no, are we worshipping the saints, no, are we worshipping the Crosses or the rings or the pictures, no!! That would be a sin. We worship God and honor the saints and respect his authority. As for the vestments and the gold, put simply, it is God’s church and it is the most powerful church in the world.
One should also ask where all those precious metals and riches came from. I know a lot of it was originally stolen from the native tribes of South America who were enslaved and had their culture destroyed by Catholics who plundered their land for Spain. The money went to pay off debts owed to other nations including the papacy.
Joey,
The Pope is PETER'S successor, not Jesus'. Did you miss that in your catechism class?
sick man uses GOD to hide behide. knowing that kids were getting raped.....screw the churches .all it is steal money and lie and rape kids.
Independent, your basis is already erred and skewed. As much as many hate to admit it, Catholicism IS CHRISTIANITY. It is only after those mocked and spat at doctrine after the Reformation did they try to dinf any excuse or lie to bring legitimacy to their sect to be considered a "Christian/protestant" sect.
The Trinity is a cornerstone to all modern-day Christian church. Idolatry is a falacy seen by the clueless outsider -- how dare you equate having artful images to inspire meditation to God or the communion of saints as being the same as Hindus or Buddhists bowing before real idols and revering them as the actual thing? Far difference, and you have totally fallen ill to the half-truths and sour seeds the first Protestants solely stood on to call the original Christian Church as worthless.
You're right, Tao. Catholics love their idols, and they also love praying to people other than Jesus/god...statues everywhere, and minor gods/divine beings with supernatural powers (saints) for every aspect of life.
It reminds me of paganism, which is rather funny considering Christianity is supposed to be so far "above" essentially tribal practices...I guess some things are too deeply rooted in our nature to be abandoned, so they piggyback along with our new and improved religions. What, there's no goddess to watch over us? How about Mary from the Bible? Yeah, I want to pray to her instead!
This is a clear sign that the entire catholic church, the church of child abuse and pervertedness, is going down for good, finally. Lose your religion people, stand on your own two feet. You can do it. It's like learning how to ride a bike. Nothing to it.
NewYorkCity, you ignorance knows no bounds! The Catholic Church are poor imitators of the greatest violators of children; the educational system! How many days can you go and not hear about a teacher having sex with 12/13/14 year old students? Not more than a week! When was the last time you heard about a NEW claim against a priest, HUH!?
i have to disagree about the hatred of jews simplly this fact from a catholic jesus was born a jew raised a jew and died a jew also all catholic priests r not child molesters jesus was killed by jealusy on the part of the high priests every jew i have ever met with few exceptions has been terrific to me so lets be understanding and stop hating
Heard of punctuation? It is used for a reason, which your run on sentences reveal. High school English 101.
I agree. It specifically says ALL OVER THE BIBLE...that the Jews are God's chosen people. And ignore the guy who condemns you for run on sentences...I understood what you were trying to say. Sometimes people just point it out to make themselves feel superior.
No, sometimes people point it out to try to help the poster. If I have to struggle to read a post it generally results in not getting the poster's true intention. Since when is literacy a bad thing?
BW-267706...
Interesting pattern....people without anything valuable to add....
Almost always attack another's spelling/punctuation....lol
We're not writing a thesis here, moron...
NorthernClimbs:
Pride and arrogance is a betrayal of the Bible's teachings. Thinking like that enables those that hate to take advantage of even intelligent people. There were many preachers and churches in the South that preached against integration and said that slavery was "in the Word."
Your intelligence is subjugated by your ego.
Northern Climbs, you stated that religon and church are not of God, how do you reconcile this with the Old Testament? How do you also reconcile the words of Christ in the New Testament when he says he will destroy the temple and rebuildit in 3 days. If God was agaisnt the institution of th Church why did it start it with the Jews and why was it rebuilt after His passion? Furthermore, when Christ said when 2 or more are gathered in His name He is in their midst. Even further, writtings from the early church fathers substantiate the institution of the church. What proofs do you provide in scripture and/or in the wrttings of the early church fathers to make these claims?
Nate Tartick....
Why don't you quote me instead of changing what I say and making yourself into a liar.
Religion is man-made and yes, not of God. Faith is of ChristJesus.
Church is when two or more are gathered in HIS Name. It is NOT a building you go to....
Northern,
No where in Nate's comment did he indicate that church was a building. When Catholics speak of the Church, they mean the collective body of worshipers, teachings, etc., not the physical building. If the Church was the building, then there could be no masses held outside the building. Easter Sunrise Mass in a beautiful pastoral setting like a park has always been awesome to attend.
Dan, actually Jesus was killed by the Romans. Crucifixon was a Roman, not Jewish, punishment. Which is why John Paul II apologized to the Jews for the Church historically blaming them for the death of Jesus.
The Jews WERE God's chosen people at a time up until God's promise of a Messiah (Jesus Christ) was brought to fruition.
Christ became man and walked earth KNOWING He was to die for the salvation of all of mankind (who believed in Him as their Savior). That is why the Temple's curtain was torn in two -- to present the symbolism that God loved the world to present His Son to die for payment for all of man's since (past, present and future), opening up His kingdom to any and all men (not just Jews) who would believe and honor the One, True God.
Jews were indeed the chosen people who preserves and honored the Truth in the era when all other peoples of the world were worshipping idols and honoring Satan. But, with Christ the Jewish covenant was completed. Present-day Jews deny their own history and Messianic promise, denying Christ and therefore perpetuating themselves in spiritual darkness (as the Messiah DID come).
For the first time, all 9 comments are clearly not believing Catholics. How refreshing! It's great that so many people can think for themselves and not repeat the same ridiculous and tiring platitudes.
Yep. And I bet many of them are women who refuse to follow blindly any more... like me.
organized religions are nothing but control of the masses under the pretext of spirituality. It has nothing to do with spirituality as it is "only" brainwashing. Who is with me on that one ?
alumette... BINGO! You hit the nail right on the head. While the Holy Bible has some good lessons for mankind to live by, organized religion for the most part, is designed to support hierarchy to societal structure and unproven rewards in the afterlife for those who spend a lifetime suffering that cause.
It funny how some people say that religion is nothing more than control of the masses. This is a very contradictorying phrase. The catholic church only contradicts mordern idiolgy, which in fact is sin. Do not commit abortions, it's murder. Do not chose the gay life style it is a sin. Honor they father and mother. Do not steal, commit adultery. Yes.... I see the control.
Joey, where does your bible say that abortion is murder? Where does it mention abortion at all? Your bible clearly says that life begins with the first breath a baby takes.
Also people do not "choose" the gay "life style" it's inherant to them like fingerprints.
If the RCC is against stealing, then why did they steal so much on their rise to power? You have the fraudlent "Donation of Constitine". You have the plunder from the New World. You have christian holidays which were stolen from the pagans, etc. You don't see the control because you don't want to see it.
"Do not commit abortions, it's murder."
Exodus 21:12 says that murder is punishable by death. But Exodus 21:22 says that if someone hits a pregnant woman and causes her to miscarry, but the woman isn't hurt, the punishment is left up to the woman's husband.
How come the punishment isn't death if that's considered murder?
hahahahahhhah, Alvarent, stated like a true modernist liberal.
And thus, where in the Bible does it explicitly say "free healthcare for all"? or, "no matter how you are born you have an excuse to partake in actions that please yourselves (even if amoral)"? Or, where does the Bible say mankind should not build a nuclear bomb?
You could picka nd choose to make your own case of being a smug @!$%# about Christian morality and guidance.
And actually, there is no such thing as homosexuality -- only people who choose to act on impulses and engage in homosexual acts or thoughts.
There is no on/off gene for "homosexuality." THere are lots of genes that create "soft spots" for a lot of things in life -- some have genes that dispose them to lovign chocolate over vanilla, or a talent for bowling over basketball, or liking blondes over brunettes. Some genes lead to downfall -- the disposition for jealousy, alcoholism, pedophilia and yes, homosexual acts -- it sure as hell is made to seem (in today's convenient thinking) that we are all "born that way", since it becomes the logical basis to condone actions for any reason without personal responsibility.
If the pope was scared the public would see the papers taken by the butler, then there must have been incriminating evidence in those papers. Too bad there is no agency anywhere that can audit the pope's letters and financial records. I imagine they would find enough incriminating evidence to close the Vatican and sell all the stolen art and artifacts to pay the victims of the pedophile cult that claims to be a 'church'. No wonder some previous popes have 'died suddenly and without cause'. The cardinals must run a tight ship, just so they don't get caught in their money laundering and drug trafficking.
Everything has already been released and nothing was incriminating or we would have heard about it already.
The Catholic's NEVER release everything. LOL
You learned how to spell "Catholic" finally!
Oh here we go- the plot thickens. Whatever- the guy is 85, he's too old to carry on the duties of the pope. He's doing the responsible thing stepping aside for someone else to step in.
What's next? Introduce more conspiracy by proposing that Beyonce flashed signals to the Illuminati who are behind his leaving? Let's keep the ball up in the air and make it more ridiculous than for what it really is about.
Stepping down for another man in his 80's. Great! Cardinals should elect someone in his 50's or 60's, or what about a middle age woman? Make retirement at 68 mandatory.
what about a young woman or a young gay man ? it's time......a young gay woman would be a nice change as well. Gender.....go away....true spirituality does not see gender, race etc.....only love in pure form.
Regardless of the religion....too bad some of the mentally 'aged' in DC are too arrogant to do the same.
Well said
alumete...
You're a degenerate without a brain in that head of yours... you haven't done an ounce or research and wouldn't know the truth if it slapped you across the face.
Love in it's pure form, you will never know without the Love of ChristJesus. What will you do when you find yourself in hell? Wake-up, time is short....the last poop (pope) is coming in and destruction is on the horizon....
The Love of Christ.Jesus? Is that what you're demonstrating while insulting and name calling, Northern?
alumette "what about a young woman or a young gay man ? it's time......a young gay woman would be a nice change as well. Gender.....go away....true spirituality does not see gender, race etc.....only love in pure form."
No, but true spirituality does see obediance!!
goodforgoodnesssake....
What do you do to defend the Faith?
Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling....
I'm not perfect, nor are you. Only our Lord in ChristJesus is perfect.
We're not face to face, nor can you hear what my voice sounds like when I say what I do. When someone behaves like a degenerate, I say so. When someone doesn't use the brain they're given, I say so. I've always been direct and don't mince words. If the Lord is in you, what can offend you? Nothing the lost says offends me, nor those that are misled. Maybe at times I could be gentler. But I don't feel gentle, nor am guided to be with the Heretics of the Catholic Religion.
Would you have told Christ to be more gentle at the Temple with the Money Changers? Would you have told HIM the same when HE dealt with the Pharrisee's? Paul the Apostle tells us to be bold...among many other things.... Do you have ears to hear?
A young gay man would be far too similar to their Jesus. Can't have that, can we?
There are secrets, massive ones that the church has kept under wraps for centuries. For something to operate in such secrecy and to last so long is mind boggling. Hopefully, more truth gets out in the coming months/years. Isn't it refreshing?? Those who offer "confession" and hearing others "sins" will be the "confessors" soon!
Christin-1289927
Read Petreus Romanus by Tom Horn....it will literally knock your socks off. Fascinating, to say the least!
Northern: I have a better idea: Read "City of God" by St. Augustine or "Summa Contra Gentiles" by St. Thomas Aquinas. Both much smarter than all of us put together.
Jatty....
There is no way I'll ever touch let alone read Catholic Heresy!
And that is why you will die stupid.
Nothern, Catholic Heresy?! Really? To say that St. Augustine or Aquinas wrote heretical text means you don't understand what the word "heresy" means. In order for your comment to fit their writings, that would mean their writings didn't comply with Church doctrinal beliefs - which is what heresy in this instance means. And since Augustine is the writer of some of the most profound text on Catholic doctrine, I doubt if his writing is heretical. Do us all a favor who have more knowledge about Catholicism, doctrine, liturgy, etc., and post your nonsense somewhere else. BTW, Catholic with a lower case "c" means universal.
It is unconscionable that the widespread sexual abuse of children was not mentioned as one of the issues that most disturbed the Pope. That shows there is still a huge deficit of moral leadership from the Vatican.
Also unconscionable is the doctrinal investigation going on of American nuns who work with the dispossessed and marginalized while no public action besides denunciation was taken of the leader of the Pius Brotherhood.
Benedict is leaving a mess behind. He was chosen for his strong, conservative doctrinal views, but had few leadership skills to address conflict. The age of the pontiff was never the problem. We'll see if the College of Cardinals learned any lessons from this.
Ah so, the butler accomplished a lot! Too bad he was given 18 months in prison for his honesty and abusive priests were given a transfer!
Everyone knows what goes on in a Catholic Church.
It is a safe haven for pedophiles and always has been.
If you take this so called religion and turn it around so that men can marry like men should.
And Nuns can marry men.
Your problems might be solved.
Until then, it's just another den of perverts and misfits.
Viewer Ready, wrong. So married men and women don't molest children? Hey all you pediphiles if you aree sick in the head all you have to do is get married. The molesters of the Boy Scouts were married did that stop them?
Marriage is not the answer nor the problem. These men lied and they lied to the church and to God?
You can't play the messenger of God and sleep with the devil.
Catholicism is all about "need to know" and "control". When their flock needs to know.. the Pope will tell you what you should know. And of course, absolute control.
I am a Christian who married into a Catholic family. Catholics have an interesting set of absolute standards and rules... My wife is Catholic and divorced once. Going to church and being denied certain rights must be embarrassing to her. The guilt trip is HUGE!!
Oh well.... we're in love. Phuck'em. Thank God all of our children are grown.
It funny how some people say that religion is nothing more than control of the masses. This is a very contradictorying phrase. The catholic church only contradicts mordern idiolgy, which in fact is sin. Do not commit abortions, it's murder. Do not chose the gay life style it is a sin. Honor they father and mother. Do not steal, commit adultery. Yes.... I see the control.
If your wife was married by the church in her first marriage and all the laws of marriage followed. Then she is commiting adultery and living in sin by being with you. If she is feeling guilty then rightly so, because she obviously knows better. She is choosing to be with you, over God. It is her choice and no one elses.
If however the laws were not followed then maybe she could get an anullment but that might have already been answered if she is not allowed to take communion. If here husband is dead then she can remarry. Also if her husband remarried after being married in the church also, he too commits adultry and lives in Sin.
This world is not easy, no one said it was.
There's corruption in the Catholic Church??? Members of the church who blame all things bad on the Jews??? My goodness, what shocking revelations! ;-)
By nature, institutions over time become corrupt. The church has a 2,000 year history with loads of corrupt times. Those in power over long periods of time also tend to use others as scapegoats for their problems.
Billy bob. We don't blame the jews for anything. They were God's chosen people. however they did curse themselve, when they scream for Jesus to be crucified and that his blood be on them and they're children. The curtain in the temple was ripped open, because God left.
Ask what Christians in Israel think about (zionost)jews .
Most people aren't fans of Zionists.
To be more truthful....Why don't you tell us what you think of the Jews? Only one that is anti-semetic state such. You must be a Catholick...
I know Christians in Israel. They love it there. They're not CathoLick, they're real Christians.
The Lord God is a Zionist...
...is that "climes" or climbs?
Just remember zionist and those practicing Judaism are not the same. Ask your christian friends if they can pass out Bibles in Israel.
I think the Pope's brother probably ought to keep his mouth shut.
So, when the FNG (new guy) gets installed, does the "Papal Presence" automagically leave Bentadik and enter the FNG?
If Saint Malachy prophesy is true we many be in the end of times if the next elected Pope is Petrus Romanus (Peter the Roman), who is predicted to be the Last Pope.
"In the final persecution of the Holy Roman Church there will reign Peter the Roman, who will feed his flock amid any tribulations, after which the seven-hilled city will be destroyed and the dreadful Judge will judge the people. The End." It has been noticed concerning Petrus Romanus, who according to St. Malachy's list is to be the last pope."
Hi Kattakara...
How refreshing to see one that is up to speed! :-) Have you read Tom Horn's book on Petreus Romanus? Brilliant, to say the least!
Kattakara NorthernClimbs does this mean you should be rejoicing? How about preparing!! Before the end everything will be made right. The catholic church will survive and rightly so.
Joey.....
The catholic religion will not survive. It will be destroyed physically and spiritually. That is a prophecy from your St Malachy, Prophecy of the Popes has been extremely accurate so far. It's also clear that the catholic religion is the Harlot of Babylon, She will be destroyed. A Double-Whammy it would seem....
And yes, I would rejoice for that. It has the blood of the saints on it's hands.
(Not your supposed catholic "saints")
I can't speak for another, but yes, I do rejoice, I could shout it on the rooftops, in that one more wheel of the cog has been put in place. It means that the LordJesus is coming Soon!! Hallelujah!!
watch them chose another 79yo Pope, they do need to chose someone healthier who has the energy and wisdom to be the the church leader. Maybe someone with more modern views too
If the probable 8 are the only contenders, the oldest is 70. Subtract 1 as he is an American and the chances of him getting in is a really LONG longshot. He could be the absolute best of the bunch but because the US is the dominant superpower, they won't vote him in as long as there are other possibles.
The Church's doctrine does not change neither does GOD.
Resigning because if ill health is just not believable.
It is the 21st century and some good changes for appropriate for the times are in order:
1. Let the pope, bishops and cardinals marry to stop the global sexual abuse of young boys at the altars. The pope should find Mary Magdalene of our times
2. Better yet, let us get the pope married in India the Indian style. We will find a wife for him and have an arranged marriage. He will have many children. The boys will play and girls will work. His eldest son will be the next pope by default when the pope dies. The wives will have no rights and cook and clean for the cardinals for centuries to come. We will call it a great civilization
3. Consider a lesbian for pope. She should live with her partner
4. The next pope should not live lavishly in the Vatican. He should live like Jesus did in cotton robes and with a crown of thorns – not in a crown of gold and ridiculous costume and the stupid stick that the pope holds. The pope should practice what Jesus preached – simplicity, compassion, no suppression of the truth and no sexual abuse of young boys
5. The new pope should not be so old and frail that he cannot work. Old age does not necessarily mean wisdom
marriage has nothing to do with the act of sexual abuse on children. these people are sexual preditors.
So letting these freaks marry will stop them from craving children? That is sadly ignorant.
They are drawn to the profession for the opportunity, protected by people just like them.
However, allowing priests to marry and women to have a more fundamental role in the Church will be critical to its survival, if just to increase the number of priests. Parishes are closing not just due to economics, but due to the lack of clergy as vocations are down. And Benedict hunting down gays and forcing them out of seminaries to stop child abuse was the wrong solution.
As in most things, one's gender should not limit one's ability to be fully participant. Protestant denominations have done just fine with female clergy.
Only if Vatican insurance will foot the bill for Viagra.
And now, a bunch of old men who are good at Latin will go to the special room where they will play 'rock-paper-scissors' until a new Pope is selected.
The smoke? That's them burning evidence of corruption and criminal activity at the highest levels.
All just a part of Catholic voodoo.
I wouldn't be too surprised if they had a few cocktails and some little boys while they are sequestered.
They don't need a Pope as much as they need a CEO for that huge corporation.
They HAVE a CEO -- Satan.
And Satan's descendants. The jews.
44Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Dude! Seriously! Now that just ain't right. But dont worry , we'll bring you back to the 21st century in our time machine.
Liberals, You do realize Jews don't believe in the concept of Hell, so calling them Satan's desecendants is meaningless. Yes, we Catholics have Satan as our master (hope y'all realize that was sarcasm). However, I have found it very beneficial to tell the various fundamentalists that ring my doorbell that I am Catholic - they depart rather quickly, thankfully.