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Uriel Sinai / Getty Images, file
A donkey roams at a Bedouin camp in the E1 area at the Israeli settlement of Maale Adumimin in the West Bank.
TEL AVIV -- To the outsider, it looks like a poor piece of land to fight over: A sand and scrub hillside where, on a winter’s day, a chill wind whips over the boulders and blows through to the bone.
On one side stand the minarets of Arab East Jerusalem, hemmed in by Israel’s security wall. Ahead, across a valley, lies the Jewish settlement of Ma’aleh Adumim, a sprawling suburb of neat streets and anonymous housing blocks.
Between the two feels like a bleak no-man’s land despite the presence of many Bedouin families.
But that is deceptive: No patch of ground in the Israeli-occupied West Bank is more bitterly contested, or more important to White House hopes of restarting peace talks.
At the heart of the dispute is Israel’s policy of building homes for Jewish settlers building communities built on land that the Palestinians feel is vital to a future state.
“We are a force to be reckoned with,” said Yigal Dilmony, deputy general manager of the Yesha Council which represents 360,000 Jews who have settled in East Jerusalem and the West Bank (what they call Judea and Samaria). “The reality on this territory is that we can’t be ignored.”
Late last year, the Israeli government announced it would speed up the start of construction of around 3,500 homes for settlers, connecting Ma’aleh Adumim to Jerusalem in an area known as E1 on the planners’ maps.
The settlers’ progress appeared unstoppable. But in 2013, the political landscape at home and abroad shifted.
Shifting balance
In December, in a rare public show of unity, every member of the United Nations Security Council except the United States condemned the expansion plans. In January, U.N, human rights investigators said Israel must stop settlement expansion and remove all Jewish settlers from the occupied West Bank, saying that its practices could be subject to prosecution as possible war crimes.
Ariel Schalit / AP, file
A Palestinian man works at a new housing development in the Jewish West Bank settlement of Maaleh Adumim.
President Barack Obama’s impending visit to Israel and the West Bank in March will only highlight the issue of the legality of settlements.
And within Israel, January’s elections saw the balance of politics shift, if not decisively then certainly significantly, toward the center and away from reflexively supporting the settlements.
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is still struggling to knit these disparate strands into a governing alliance, but it is likely he will need to bring together his traditional right-wing supporters and the new more moderate voices.
And few issues divide the Israeli establishment more than that of settlements.
Here’s the outgoing Deputy Prime Minister, Dan Meridor, speaking on Israeli radio on Feb. 7:
"There is a discrepancy between our claim that we are willing to accept a two-state solution and the fact that we don't limit the construction in the settlements to the settlement blocs.”
Meridor is a member of Netanyahu’s Likud party who failed to win re-election. But his voice has always tended toward the pragmatic.
"I'm not saying we should stop construction in Jerusalem and in the settlement blocs, but we must not build beyond them, because by doing so we promote a very dangerous situation to Zionism, of one state from the Mediterranean Sea to the Jordan River, which endangers us more than anything else," he said.
Israeli media cite anonymous sources in Netanyahu’s office to say he’s not planning another freeze on settlements. On Monday he reiterated his support for two state-solution, albeit unenthusiastically.
The battle over settlements centers around mutually exclusive visions of Israel’s future – a two-state solution versus an Israel decisively laying claim to land captured in the 1967 war with Egypt, Jordan and Syria.
Clouds gathering
For Palestinians, settlements and an eventual Palestinian state cannot be seen as separate issues. E1, the plot of land near East Jerusalem, is a vital corridor without which their territory would be severed, north from south.
Abir Sultan / EPA, file
A Bedouin shepherd puts a newborn lamb in a bag on his donkey in the E1 area between Jerusalem and the West Bank.
The construction of the thousands of homes would render impractical if not impossible the foundation of a meaningful state of their own.
“My family has been here for 80 years,” said an Arab farmer tending his sheep and chickens on the disputed parcel of land known as E1.
“This is our land but they’ve told us we’ll have to go,” said the farmer, who preferred his name not be used. “I don’t know what will happen to us.”
So upon this seemingly barren corridor rests America’s chances of reviving a peace process that has been comatose for two years.
Leaders of the settler movement see clouds gathering as Obama’s visit draws closer. But they remain defiant.
"We understand that Obama as a second term president is much more dangerous to the settlements than the first term Obama and we need to keep our eyes wide open,’’ Dilmony said.
"When he comes here he should meet us, the settlers, and see the situation for himself,” Dilmony said.
On only point is Dilmony likely to be in agreement with the US administration.
“Peace can only come from the people who live here,’’ he said.
Related:
Israel faces European backlash over decision to expand settlements
US slams Israel's decision to expand settlements
UN panel's report: Israel must withdraw all settlers from West Bank
Leave a Comment:
If Obama had guts, he would have several of the thousands of Jewish industrial spies arrested as a counterpoint prior to his visit. These Jews regularly steal our technology and either claim it as their own or sell it to our enemies.
are you nuts? let me answer that for you, yes you are. take your anti-semitic crap somewhere else. for the record, what have you personally invented that has helped anyone? probably nothing. the best technology in the world comes out of israel. technology that you use on a daily basis.
and for the record, msn... the palestinians dont want land, they want the jews dead. theres a huge difference.
Why is it anytime someone criticizes Israeli policies and actions they are antisemitic ? Must be the whole world is wrong ang the Israelis are always right !
It doesn’t matter what Palestinians feel…the land was LOST in the war! These relatives of migrant workers all need to go back to their respective homes…
Palestine and the Palestinians
The Bible does not use the term “Palestine” or “Palestinians” to designate any geographic location or people. Nor does the historian Josephus ever use these terms in his major works, Antiquities of the Jews and Wars of the Jews. These relatively recent terms cannot change history—much less Scripture.
In the New Testament, other terms denote the territories of that region. For example, in Luke 1:5, Herod (the Great) is King of Judea. In Luke 3:1, we find other references: Pontius Pilate, governor of Judea; Herod (Antipas), Tetrarch of Galilee; Philip, Tetrarch of Ituraea (northeast of Judea); and Lysancas, Tetrarch of Abilene (near Ituraea). Notice that there is no “king,” “governor” or “tetrarch” of Palestine found anywhere in Scripture—more proof that “Palestine” was not an ancient term.
Palestinians today insist that they inhabited the land of Canaan before God gave it to Israel. But they are either seriously misinformed or willfully ignorant. The Canaanites described above were definitely not of Arab descent. The Arabic peoples are descendants of Ishmael, who descended from Shem. The peoples of Tunisia, Malta, Algeria and Sicily of today are of similar descent as these Canaanites.
By the tenth century A.D., the Turks had conquered the former land of Judea, as well as Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon. By the eleventh century, they controlled the bulk of Asia Minor. The Arabians—descendants of Ishmael as well as Esau—claimed the land from that time until the present.
Only after the Jews established their nation in 1948 did the masses of these Arabic peoples feel drawn to this particular territory. The population of Palestinians swelled dramatically after the Jews brought about vast improvements in agricultural production. They established irrigation and re-introduced efficient means of agriculture.
Understandably, many took advantage of gainful employment provided by the Jews in developing the land and building a needed infrastructure for the tiny nation of Israel. These local laborers were calledfellahin, or agricultural workers.
Ownership of the territory is another controversial issue. The Palestinians claim to be the ancient owners of Palestine. Yet we see that they only took possession of the land in the wake of the Turkish campaign through that region in about the tenth century A.D. The claim made by ancient Israel precedes this claim by about 2,300 years.
How ironic that these Palestinians accuse the Jews of depriving them of their home when (1) the vast majority of them moved to Israel after the Jews reclaimed the land from desolation and ruin, and (2) their Arab relatives in the world of Islam own over 1,000 times more real estate than exists within the boundaries of tiny Israel. Remember when thousands of Palestinians were expelled from Kuwait in 1991 after they were found conspiring with the Iraqis in selling out their host country?
Read more....very good article...
http://rcg.org/articles/patp.html
They're only a force to be reckoned with as long as we let them keep their greedy hands in our pockets to the tune of 2-4 billion$/ year.George H Bush showed who the force to be reckoned with was.
@ Fedup...
Very specious and irrelevent reasoning. It doesn't matter what they did with the land. It isn't theirs. Furthermore, they entered into a peace agreement brokered by Bill Clinton and they have repeatedly and flagrantly violated that with this illegal settlement building. As to winning the war, we beat Germany and Japan in WWII. Did that make them ours? I think not. Your post is a pathetic piece of zionism. Furthermore, there wouldn't have even been a war had not Britain, China, Russia, U.S. and France not given to the Jews land that wasn't theirs to give. This is analagous to Argentina giving California back to Mexico and Tennessee back to the Cherokees. Is it theirs to give? The Jews didn't establish their nation. The UN did. One last point...you repeatedly invoke Biblical references. So are you also aware that in Matthew 23 Jesus disowned them very clearly and that Paul later stated point blank that the nation of Israel was no longer the fleshly nation of IsrAEL but was instead the Christian Church (congregation)?
Most of your posts reek of tea but this was lame even by your standards.
Well said David E. And as for rockmebritney you do you really think most of the world is wrong? Israel would like it all . Period.
Where is Reagan when you need him. "Tear down this wall."
How dare you speak against those that have suffered more than most other people in the world. Remove your comment or I will report you to NBC.
Obama can't even broker peace in Chicago & he's an experienced community organizer; so, how effective can he be in Israel?
The lands of current Israel were stolen by Muslim invaders from Jews by Muslim invaders' normal tricks of telling lies, fooling, kidnapping, terrorizing, killing and genocides of non-Muslims.
"On one side stand the minarets of Arab East Jerusalem, hemmed in by Israel’s security wall. Ahead, across a valley, lies the Jewish settlement of Ma’aleh Adumim, a sprawling suburb of neat streets and anonymous housing blocks."
Jerusalem belongs to Jews and it should rightfully go to them.
At the same time, I am glad that Jewish extremist and a nut case like Netanyahu and his team have become weaker.
I am for Jews of Israel.
At the same time, I am totally against Netanhayu and his team dancing as directed by oil rich Sunni rulers of House of Saud, Qatar, Kuwait, UAE and other Sunni Arab League nations in Syria and Iran.
He and his team played dirty games before each Iraqi wars. It looked as if they were on the payrolls of oil rich Sunni rulers, oil companies and their lobbyists.
Building settlements on occupied land puts Israel firmly on the wrong side of the law. The settler's justification for this, is that the man in the sky said they could have it. This bit of 'insight' was passed down for hundreds of years before being written down. To gauge how accurate it is, play a game of 'telephone with 20 friends. How different is the message whispered by the last person compared with the initial message. No, not believeable to a modern rational mind.
Religion was invented to control a population and justify political actions and dehumanize an enemy. It is the weaponization of faith.
He simply needs to remind them of his "universal" gun bans. and bam..problem solved.
This is so funny. The other article on NBC was stating how the poor Jews were being harassed at soccer games in Europe. Poor Jews.
In two years from now we will be reading a story about Palestinian rockets being fired into this very same settlement. Then we will all have to feel sorry that the poor Jewish civilians that are being fired upon by those nasty Mooslem Palestinians, that are trying to hurt our friend and ally in the region. Poor Jews.
When you lose territory in war you cant come back and say we want it back. That would be like losing an election and claiming the victor doesn't qualify for the job. Both have happened. Neither were smart.
U.S. slams Israel's decision to expand settlements with American tax payers money, we give Israel Billions in foreign aid every year when we are going bankrupt and we have Americans suffering from starvation. This is just crazy - when is this going to end. When is the GOP-TP going to stop supporting this warmonger nation !!!
Eli3K:
Dude - You are a mess. First off - what are Mooslems? Secondly, you seem to think blindly firing rockets into a civilian community with the intention of KILLING CIVILIANS is OK. No matter what the justification, hateful targeting of civilians to score political points will never be OK. The Palestinians are led by Terrorists. Is it too much to ask that they simply accept the Jews should be able to live in the region as well? The hate your post exudes is astounding.
The President may want to hold his nose closed with one hand, while using his other hand to shake hands with Netanyahu. The stench of villainy can be overwhelming. Does he really have to visit that jokers? How about if he just sent him a Hallmark card instead?
The Jews disobeyed God so many times, he eventually allowed or forced them from their Holy Land to Europe and other continents which allowed the group now known as Palestinians to occupy the land. Some of that land has now been in Palestinian possession for 100s of years, but unfortunately they are now being forced to uninhabitle land while the Jews take the best; and no wonder the Palestinians strike like they do, they have no hope for making a living the way the Jews treat them. NO, I am not a Palestinian I am a Christian who believes most Jews are only out to care for themselves.
upset,
Israel achieved nationhood due, in part, to acts of terrorism committed by jews against the British. This fact is not highly publicised. In the last 20 years, 10 palistinian civilians have been killed for every 1 Israeli.
gm Tramp
Naahh. They already know how well the gun ban has worked in Afghanistan.
The anti-semitic argument is now so over, as it so over played - reverse racism is what it is called when they use the anti-semite argument.
Anytime there are valid points that have to be answered just like any other ethnic group answers to if they don't want t our it contradicts the cause your the anti-Semite?? It is because they are not intelligent enough to counter your argument. You keep crying wolf and no one is willing to help you.
People who claim your an anti-semite are the real RACISTS the bigots, the real discriminators. This manipulation doesn't work on me anymore if you can't have a discussion with out crying out anti-semite the discussion is over because your dealing with a Jewish racist.
Fed talks of the people of the west bank being recent additions. I did not use Palestinians on purpose for Fed's benefit. Yet Liberman is a former bar bouncer from Moldovia. So which is more recent ? People like him or fellahi
“My family has been here for 80 years,” said an Arab farmer"......so what? Does the Arab own the land and have title to it? No, he is just a squatter that wants free land
The palestinians remind me of the homeless people moving into foreclosed homes in the U.S and then they try to take ownership. If someone sits on a public toilet long enough, do they own it?
It saddens me that so many posters forget the decades of attempted peace by Israel, only to have palestinians send in suicide bombers to kill innocent Israeli civilians and children. Look up the Passover massacre.
JW:
You don't know that the Arab farmer is a squatter. You're just another Israeli apologist, fabricating a complete lie when it suits the Jewish perspective. And your reference to decades of Israeli peace attempts is a joke.
The Jews stole the land in the first place. They steal land from an entire ethnic group, and then offer to make peace with them if they will accept the theft, after the fact? The humor is found in the fact that the Jews are bewildered that the Palestinians still refuse to kiss the boot that kicks them.
You need to stop reading Israeli propaganda, and start investigating real history. The State of Israel was founded on thievery and perpetuated on lies.
" There's no country on earth that would tolerate missles raining down on its citizens from outside its borders." BO 11/18/2012. maybe the palestinians should use drones, then it would be ok?
Battle:
Your quote assumes that the country is legitimate to begin with.
The Palestinians want their country back, so they are fighting a guerrilla war against a usurper.
I see that many of the lefties on this site are also anti-semites.... what a crowd of disgusting Nazis...
Tony:
I think you see, what you want to see.
"Why should the Arabs make peace? If I were an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country. Sure, God promised it to us, but what does that matter to them? Our God is not theirs. We come from Israel, it's true, but two thousand years ago, and what is that to them? There has been antisemitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country. Why should they accept that? They may perhaps forget in one or two generations' time, but for the moment there is no chance." David Ben-Gurion, first prime minister of Israel
"For eight years now, they have sat in the refugee camps of Gaza and have watched how, before their very eyes, we have turned their lands and villages, where they and their forefathers previously dwelled, into our home." General Moshe Dayan, Israeli military hero - 1956
"God promised it to us."? I hope that doesn't become the standard for land ownership.
The British gave Palestine to the Jews. Who gave it to the British? It didn't belong to the British; what gave them the right to give it to a minority ethnic group, when the local majority ethnic group told the British that they wanted to keep it for themselves?
The Palestinians already had a governing body in place, which was serving as a liaison to the British occupation force prior to 1948; therefore, for all intents and purposes, Palestine was a national entity.
Anywhere Obama goes, chaos is soon to follow. Just be relieved he's not in the US for awhile.
Likewise, just be relieved that neither McStain nor Mittens were ever elected President. Because if either had, we'd be a*hole deep in World War III by now.
Ticket:
Your cracker barrel wisdom, reflects a world view from a deep assshole.
Re: Justis4U #1.10
In response to your idiotic posting, You can report anything you want to NBC, Do you really think that anyone cares ? And how do you know that they suffered more than anyone else in history ? Is this from personal experience ? Were you there at the time ? The Jews were not the only group of people who dealt with something as horrible as the Holocaust ? What about the Turkish ? The North Koreans ? You need to take a course in history fool. I tell you what, Why don't you go and fu## your mother. There you go, Now you can report me to NBC you wuss. Should I start worrying ? LMAO
I object to HOTTICKET-2304234's post your honor; pure speculation...
All political power flows out of the barrel of a gun.
Obama would gladly hand over all of Israel to his buddies The Muslim Brotherhood.
Why do I get a certain sense of deja vu wrt all of this, looking at another matter within our own back yard, the Native Americans? I'm almost at a point of wondering if JW would have claimed that Natives were simply squaters with no actual claim in the Americas, as we define the concept of land ownership, who simply wanted a free pass even though it was they who provided food while the Pilgrims were starving upon arrival...
You know, there was a former class mate I had some 8 years ago, who I wouldn't mind having a chat about this whole issue with. Lets just say that he had a mixed ancestory to put it mildly... I have no idea how his grand parents got together, but if anyone could add some perspective to all of this, he could, as his family has no doubt had to think this matter out, among themselves. He was 1/4 Lebonese, 1/4 Jewish, 1/4 Hispanic, and 1/4 Cherokee. I asked him once, and he alluding to his partial Native and partial Hispanic heritage was like "yeah I know, it would be as if my grandfather killed my grandmother, or something like that". But I was also wondering how a Lebonese and Jewish individual got together to raise a family as well....
The more I think about it, the more I think he would have something to contribute to all of this, because he's no doubt had to reconcile all of this (Native vs Hispanic, Arab vs. Israeli) within himself. He is afterall, a single individual, however divided his heritage is... Whatever happens in the occupied territory, I can only hope the outcome is better then what we saw with the Natives here. One might say they have "statehood" if you will on the reservations, which would only be after a fashion; but if it was I, back then, I do believe there are things I would have negotiated differently. But then again, I also have the advantage of hind site, and as the saying goes, hind site is 20/20...
The future. How long would some, and some ON BOTH SIDES like to live out a drama similar to that of the Hatfields and the McCoy's? For another thousand years, 2,000 years, for how long? And as humanities skill at the art of war improves, as our technology grows ever more powerful and ever more destructive, how far and at what cost?
Thousands of years ago, we were talking about bows, arrows, calvary men, plow shears, etc, today we have rockets, nukes, bunker buster bombs, and if we get into the arsenal currently at the US's disposal, which eventually will be developed by others (even as we if following current trends continues to develop even more sophisticated weapons), then what? Should we continue this past a point where people develop electro-magnetic/gravitational based weapons systems, devise a means to apply light and sound waves to ever more destructive as well as constructive means then previously possible (to go along with an advancing science, as implemented), design an ability to weaponize the weather aka Hollywood like scenarios with man made earthquakes and the like? To the point where we could really unleash some destructive forces on the planet to only find out we underestimated them, and can't quite control the after effects? Till we end up finding we could well end up needing a new planet?
And what would it serve then? There comes a point where people shouldn't be disinterested in the future, and the sort of life their children, and their children's children will end up having. Perhaps some people deserve, whatever, for offences seen by both sides; but there comes a point where all around people should ask what sort of world they want to leave behind for those who will follow them. Because we're creating that world, and for them, with whatever decisions are made in the hear and now...
Troubling times are near, not just for Israel, but the world.
@Thomas Blue; Well said in your reply to "Fedup". I was thinking the exact thing. Nothing worse than Israel continuing their own version of the ugly "Manifest Destiny". But it's even uglier when holy rollers quote the bible to falsely put meaning into revisionist history.
I'm not a fan of arabs using violence against defenseless civilians to settle scores, and I'm not a fan of "settlers" grabbing land that is not theirs and displacing people. You can't have an honest debate in this country because american jews will be disingenuous and call you anti-Semite if you don't agree with them, they are somehow above criticism...
The solution would have to be radical....We can't carry on like this, with the "peace process" not going forward, and even when there's a new treaty it's not respected and illegal settlements continue.
Arab goal = destroy the Jews.
The zionists are not semites so stop referring to the as such ... they are Askenazi Kazaars claiming to be semites to steal the Palestinians land ... Israel is the largest most attrocious terrorist organization the world has ever had to endure!
"Settlers" my ass! If I see one more slanted article using that euphemism for land thieves, occupiers, criminals stealing land by force of arms-I will SCREAM!!!!!!! This clearly shows total media bias in favor of Israel whatever bloody deeds they perpetuate while ignoring the plight of the helpless Palestinians and the rule of law.
There will never be peace in this land until Israel stops condoning the expansion of these settlements. Granted these lands were lost in the war Israel did not start, but the real issue is a final peace, one that will work for all time. All these settlements accomplish is fanning the fires of hate and violence. For a Nation which claims to want nothing but to exist in peace, the continued expansion of these settlements makes a mockery of that claim .
DUDE;
(Mr. Retired Floridian)
I think you need to switch to de-caf and read Mr. Fedupwithfed (post#1.3) explanation and get an insight to at least half the B.S. that these Itinerants (and our LIBERAL media) have been trying to indoctrinate us with. And like the man said "To the victor goes the spoils." had not the '67 war happened Israel would NOT have the property. Or sir would you agree to surrender your house and land right now to the Red Man, after all "He was here before you were."
Mr Harley Dude...I think your exhaust pipe is too close to your seat. If the winner takes all in a war, why do we not own Italy, Germany, and Japan? And Cuba? Educate yourself boy. Turn off Faux Noise.
"“My family has been here for 80 years,” said an Arab farmer tending his sheep and chickens on the disputed parcel of land known as E1."
Normally, Muslims after becoming stronger have driven many non-Muslims and even Muslims of different sects from their homes, where their families have been living for more than 800 years.
Arab farmer and those supporting likes of him ought to answer the question: how those infidels driven out should handle their situations?
Mr. Blue;
I take it the blue in your moniker means ultra liberal democrat. I never said anything about us, we are not a conquering nation (except our own). I am talking about the "Independant State of Israel". You can't even read my post for what it is, please Sir, turn off your computer and step away from the key board and go have another drink of "Uncle Barry's Kool-Aid" you have just proven yourself unworthy and unable to have a viable interaction of mental exchanges here.
People trying to explain today border squabble with references of 5,000 years ago. Even my home sits on a piece of land that had been devided and subdevided years before I bought it. Before that it was an expanse of land and before that a territory and before that........! To say you feel that Israel is wrong is one thing but you are taking sides on the Palistinaianes which is an Extreme Religious Country, you are making yourself sound just like one of them. I find it hard to support some one that appesrs to be an Extreme Islamist/Muslem. I can only assume that you are drinking Troll Aid from a Sippy Cup. I don't drink anybodies Kool Aid nor eat Republican Garbage.
UN resolution 242 is very clear that lands occupied by Israel, taken in war, do not belong to them. All israeli settlement of the areas are illegal. Simple.
Israel has a right to exist within the borders the British defined upon their exit. It was a very wise decision that Jerusalem would not belong to either side, but would remain a UN protectorate. The land grab has been the root of the conflict since then.
ED -
Simply and accurately put. No one will reply with to your post with a logical argument.
rockmebritney, take you jaded glasses off so you can see the world as it is. Israel has stolen state secrets from the USA for several decades not to mention the dual citizenship my country affords these Israelis who go off to their homeland to fight in their Army and come back stateside and who knows which country they actually support and claim allegiance to. Call me anti-Semitic but being a first American we know what discrimination is first hand and in our own country where we were not citizens or could vote until the mid 20th century and it continues to this day in our own lands while we are still in POW camps.
Your country is encroaching upon others and keeping the pot stirred up over there. I for one would like to see the US withdraw all hand-outs to Israel. We are not your keepers and Israel causes constant conflict over there. It takes more than one to fight and that is a truism. It seems the Jewish people of Israel have become just as bad as their tormentors with the advent of the Mossad and assassinations world wide. Who gave Israel the license to murder across the globe? Why hasn't the World Court brought your leaders to justice for these crimes. When will Israel quit stirring the pot and stop the encroachment in the Middle East and displacing others humans? This reminds me of the European invasion of North America? When will the US stop coddling Israel with welfare payments and allowing dual citizenship to American born Jewish religion people who decide to go off and fight in Israel's army? Other US citizens who do this for other countries must give up their US citizenship. What makes Jewish people better and being coddled by the USA?
We have killed US citizens with drone assassinations in the Middle East for joining another army but yet Israelis come and go from this country and send money to their true allegiance nation. Oh by the way, the only product I find useful from Israel is their Morel speakers for my cars. They are great hand made car speakers by the way. You have a great day and please remember just because someone does not agree with Israel does not make them anti-Semitic but people with opinions that differ from your view of the world. If those with different opinions that do not attack your religious views are NOT anti-Semitic. Grow up and start thinking like a grown-up.
Because we chose to give them back after years of occupation. Just because you "own" something doesn't mean you cannot choose to give it back. However, the choice to do so is yours.
The jewish people war given the land from the British who are now the main force in the new world order. The british empire is dead but its not hence the NWO. In all of time peoples have fought wars and lost land but this time in a war that didn't involve Palestine or Israel The Zionist influence won out and 'took' the land and that is why Palestine has being fighting to get it back.
Don't bother calling me anti-Semitic as your manipulative racist comment doesn't work! If you can't have a discussion about history with out throwing out that evil, anti-christian word don't bother as it is reverse racism and discriminatory at best, and I loathe that term and how it has been used to suppress opinions. People who use anti-semitic terminology are themselves the true racists or they just can intelligently give or get opinions.
Denver bill 2 - I agree with much you had said, but look at america who took land from the Indians, the Indians are not sending daily rockets into america's neighborhoods or suiting up suicide bombers, they dealt with their loses and moved on. Hamas doesn't, and the continuation of daily rockets by hamas militants and killing of average citizens is terrorism (besides not being man enough to take their battles to the military, so they kill innocent by-standers that had nothing to do with the dispute).
every time Israel gives up land to seek peace, hamas uses that land to attack Israel's citizens with daily rockets, Israel giving up land has always came back to bite them and has not help to bring peace to the area.
Crazy Horse and Sitting Bull felt the same way... and so we had the Little Big Horn. Unfortunately, we could not stop the White Eyes permanently. So we scream in silence and our words ask for the white eyes to honor treaties they made over two centuries ago.
"In January, U.N, human rights investigators said Israel must stop settlement expansion and remove all Jewish settlers from the occupied West Bank, saying that its practices could be subject to prosecution as possible war crimes."
Do these apply to oil rich Sunni ruled nations like Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Kuwait, UAE, Bahrain and other Arab League nations?
Saudi Arabia ruled by House of Saud with 5000 princes and princeses does not permit: freedom of religion, human rights to non-Sunnis, women rights, democratic rights and other big name rights.
What punishments are given to them starting from Saudi Arabia?
screminmimi, well stated in just a few words. Of course you know we will be attacked for bringing this subject up since most of America is in denial. We are to be forgotten but they cannot annihilate us as they have tried and failed. Mvto!
I hope your pathetic 'business' fails hard, and SOON.
No, ED, UN Resolution 242 is not as cut-and-dried as you claim.
The Resolution called for the land to be returned to Jordan and Egypt. Those two countries immediately tried to give their 'rights' to the land over to the Palestine Liberation Organization, the terrorist group run by Yasir Arafat.
Also, that Resolution makes it perfectly clear that Israel has a right to exist. THAT right was denied by the PLO and has been denied by every Palestinian organization that has ever existed.
It is the height of hypocrisy for you to demand that Israel abide by UN Resolution 242, when the Palestinians refuse to do so.
Israel HAS tried the 'land for peace' route before. In every instance, the returned land was used to launch new attacks on Israel.
The present-day United Nations is nothing more than an enabler of terrorists and despots.
deleted
Given that Israel depends on forces outside Israel for legitimacy, this seems to be a very poor move. It casts Israel in a bad light over what seems to be a nondescript piece of real estate.
foolishness abounds,
Are you paid by Tel Aviv to make these asinine responses?
Israel promised to abide by UN Security Council resolutions when it asked to be admitted to the UN in 1947. The UN Security Council clearly stated that the West Bank was not to become part of Israel (the West Bank was clearly taken in an unjustified war against its neighbors in 1967). Israel has ignored Resolution 242 and several other important resolutions from the Security Council. That makes Israel a rogue nation living outside international law. It has become more and more right wing over the last few decades and is starting to find itself looked at by the rest of the world as a terrorist organization. Lest we forget that the right wing extremist element of the IDF was the origin of terrorism as a political tool long before the PLO existed.
I believe the time will come (and soon) when Israel will have to defend itself not just against its Arab neighbors but against the entire world. It has clearly lost its way to the greed of the fanatics in Tel Aviv and Brooklyn. These cowards come to Israel and refuse to join the Army as they demand that the IDF protect them in their theft of Arab farmlands.
Modern Israel is an embarrassment to modern Jews and a dishonor to the memory of Jews lost to the Nazis.
This article is about the palestinian desire for a Jew Free State in the Jewish biblcal heartland. No matter it employs "Palwestinians".
A Jew-free Israel is more imortant than the bread of life.
Indio/Mexican-free Texas anyone?
U.S.A. slams Israel's decision to expand settlements on the west-bank with U.S. tax payers money, Israel gets Billions in foreign aid each year on borrowed money because we are broke. This blood sucking Israel is going to bankrupt our nation, we have American citizens suffering from starvation and living in the streets and here we are giving away Billions & Billions to a warmonger Country. President Obama better watch his back on his trip to Israel, I don't trust them. Remember the USS Liberty, Israel is not our friends, all they care about is our money and Israel's influence on the GOP-TP is beyond a disgrace !!!
Do we even want to talk about the nukes that Israel has that they should not? How about chemical weapons? Some examples you turned out to be for the rest of humanity, "Do as a say not as I do".
How about that duel citizen crap/BS? Must be nice to be able to vote in our elections and get to decide who the leader of the U.S. is. I want the ability to vote in Israel's elections too. I wonder if Netanyahu would have been reelected had I been able to vote or have a say so in Israel's elections. Not like we do not send 3 to 6 billion in money to Israel EACH AND EVERY YEAR for only 6 million people. Why the f*** do I not have a vote or a say so when every citizen gets between $500 to $1000 each and every year. I should sure a f*** have some kind of say so after spending that kind of money each and every year.
What f***ing country to you belong to or support if you have duel citizenship? I would wager it sure as f*** is not this country. The only reason you even give a chit about this country is because of all the support, military hardware, and money we give to Israel. Duel citizenship should be outlawed. How can you care about this country and vote in its best interests, when you really only care about another country (Israel)? There are only 6 million Jews that live in the U.S. peacefully. Why do you need a whole country all to yourselves with one "preferred" religion for?
Want to cut down on all the Mossad BS? Get rid of all duel citizen BS that exists. Make them pick a f***ing country to live in. Do I even have to mention "Prisoner X" and all the other BS that comes along with duel citizenship? How else do you think Mossad gets all the passports that they use. The Newtown shooting (theater one too) has the stink of Mossad all over it (I would still love to know WHO those two guys in camo were, the ones seen running from the school into the woods right after the shooting that the police chased and captured.).
Since both groups will never agree to peace terms I say we set a date, move everyone off that piece of land, each of the nuclear nations donates a nuke, and we then turn the land into a radioactive sheet of glass for 1000 years. Remove the land and the problem is magically solved. The only way to stop two children from fighting is to remove the object that they are fighting over. Simple logic.
People create the very problems they b***h, moan, complain about, etc. and then expect other people to care/take sides.
Israel doesn't have nuclear weapons.
(IsraelNN.com) Hamas leaders spoke to the Arabic language Ash-Sharq il-Awsat newspaper recently and explained that as Muslims, they are allowed to lie. In an interview printed on Thursday, senior Hamas terrorists explained, "A Muslim is permitted to say things that oppose his beliefs in order to prevent damages or to be saved from death."
This approach, known in Arabic as "taqiyya," was behind several Hamas leaders' recent public expression of support for Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas, they explained. Senior Hamas terrorists in Samaria, who were recently released from jail, publicly expressed disapproval with the Hamas takeover of Gaza and said they supported the PA forces. The sources quoted in Ash-Sharq il-Awsat explained that the Samarian terrorists' announcement was not a sign of dissent within Hamas ranks, but rather a permitted use of "taqiyya" to deceive Abbas and avoid prison sentences. –
Of course taqiyya has its roots in Shi'a Islam. Shi'a who felt the need to lie about their own faith because they were fearful of Sunni Muslims elaborated upon such religiously sanctioned dissimulation. But by now it has its counterpart, with Qur'anic sources, in Sunni Islam. This is important to understand, the next time Tariq Ramadan or someone else indignantly exclaims that "taqiyya" is "a Shi'a doctrine." Its sources are in Shi'ism; deception, including lying about the faith, is part of Sunni Islam as well.
Since we all know that Muslims may lie, may they also tell the truth? Of course they may, and the more forthright they are about it, the happier we should be.
Here's a three-question quiz designed to illustrate how the followers of Muhammad's statement "War is Deception" operate -- sometimes telling what they believe to be the truth, sometimes mingling what they believe to be the truth with falsehood.
Question #1.
The leader of the Arab terrorist group As Saiqa --the one who led "Palestinian" Arab Muslims to massacre hundreds of Maronites at Damour, in Lebanon -- Zuheir Mohsen, said the following to James Dorsey in a 1977 inteview in the Dutch newspaper "Trouw":
"The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct "Palestinian people" to oppose Zionism.
"For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan."
When he said that, was Zuhair Mohsen lying, or telling the truth?
Question #2.
At the U.N. in 1988, Yassir Arafat said the following:
"The State of Palestine is an Arab State; its people are an integral Part of the Arab nation and of the nation's heritage, its civilization, and its aspiration to attain its goals of social progress, unity and liberation. [The State of Palestine] is committed to the Charter of the League of Arab States, the United Nations Charter, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights [apparently uniquely so, for not a single Arab state subscribes to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, but rather to the 'Muslim' version – the Cairo Declaration of Human Rights – which vitiates, in every important respect, every single one of the human rights that matter most] , and the principles of non-alignment."
Which parts of what he said were lies, and he knew he was lying, and which parts did he believe to be true?
Question #3.
In the latest issue of The Economist (February 1-7, 2008), the leader of Hamas, Mamoud Zahar, says:
"'We [Palestinians] were never an independent state in history,' he notes. 'We were part of an Arab state and an Islamic state.'"
Is Mahmoud Zahar telling the truth, as he sees it, or is he lying?
And why in this case, and in the other two examples I have given above, does it matter?
Please write on only one side of the blue book.
Israel donated millions to the GOP-TP to gain influence just to safe guard their foreign aid and use our nation as a 100% back up in a time of war, PS - the money Israel gives to the Republican party is our tax dollars that we give them in foreign aid, so we do get some Penny's back from these warmongers but its getting into the wrong hands, the GOP-TP, "SAD" !!!
The Arabs have only themselves to blame.
.
This is what happens when genocidal Arab leaders attack a young tiny state that had only existed for 19 years at the time (1967), and they declared that they would push all the Jews into the sea!
When your leaders attack a tiny peaceful democratic country and declare that you will burn Tel Aviv (and in fact, some Arab generals were already boasting on the radios that Tel Aviv and Haifa were burning), then don't go crying to mommy when that tiny country kicks your @$$, and pushes you back across the border and takes over the territory you lost in order to be able to defend itself!
For fifty years now we've been listening to the Arabs whining like whiny little b*tches after they got their @$$ handed to them by the Jews. But they have no one to blame except their own leaders!
.
When Egypt and Jordan were finally willing to make peace with Israel, they got their land back.
.
If the Palestinians had been serious about making peace in stead of sending suicide bombers and rockets into Israel, then they would have gotten 97% of the West Bank and Gaza, and they would be able to live in peace and prosperity now.
And if Syria wanted to make peace (instead of killing tens of thousands of their own people every time there is a little rebellion) then they would get most of the Golan back.
.
But that's what you get when you lose the wars that you started, and then you refuse to come to a peaceful settlement.
If you don't like it, then don't act like savage genocidal barbarians and you won't have to spend your life living in a refugee camp!
Stop acting like such savages, killing 70,000 Syrians in the civil war going on over there, or killing hundreds of thousands of Iraqis (killed by OTHER IRAQIS AND ARABS!) in the civil war over there, or killing 200,000 Sudanese in the genocide in Darfur and so on...
The Arabs should stop listening to their blood-thirsty religious leaders who want them to live in the dark ages. And they should start acting like human beings and stop trying to kill everyone. Then maybe they'll have peace and prosperity.
And stop blaming everyone else for your own problems! Man, it's like trying to deal with a BILLION infants who just can't help themselves! All they do is whine, and scream, and sh!t all over everything...
Are you kidding ? While they are undeclared, it is common knowledge that Israel has 100-300 nuclear weapons.
"Theres no country on the face of the Earth that would tolerate missles raining down on its citizens from outside its borders." BO 11/18/2012 maybe the palestinians should use drones, then it wouldnt be an issue?
Duqu, your knowledge of the area and peace negotiations is jaded at best. The Israeli's ended the negotiations started and Camp David and continued at Taba, after a basic agreement was reached. Their reasoning for this was their upcoming elections, and they vowed to continue afterwards. It never happened, and Israel continued their illegal expansions. While the violence committed against Israel has been a factor in this issue, Israel is equally to blame with their violence and illegal expansion.
I read many blogs that Israel did not start the conflict therefore are justified in keeping what they conquered.That is not true. The French Joined The British in negating their agreement to give Egypt the Suez Canal ,which both nations had built, after their temporary ownership.The agreement of ownership was completed in 1955/56. Those two countries sent troops to the area to continue to occupy that Canal.The Israelis joined them in that invasion and occupied what is still called The Occupied Territories.They are using their former enemy's Use for Liebstrem (s.i.c.)needs to continue their illegal use of that land.
I had business to complete, this is to finish my blog of the above. For Israel to continue to be a viable state, it needs to 1. Return occupied land.2.stop foreign persons of their faith from emigrating to Israel.3.Control their population explosion. They then would be under no pressure to obtain more living room and would be able to desist the continuing attempt of genocide of their Palestinian neighbor.
wow lots of deleted comments and posts with grammer and spelling errors so bad they are unintelligable. I hope these people's first language was not english, so they can at least claim that as an excuse. Otherwise I have to say the American educational system is now officially a complete failure.
The proliferation of deleted comments on this thread, leads me to conclude that any chance for civil discourse on this topic is gone. Flee this thread while you still can!
dgeding -
All the deleted comments are from the same poster who is advertising for on-line shopping. If you click on the little "!" to the right of the "up-arrow" you get a menu which allows you to report advertising and other vilations. The monitors of the site pay attention to this when it is advertising, and delte the comments.
Please feel free to flee the thread before it grabs you and hold you hostage.
Hilarious.
Israel's settlers are the equivalent of neocons and teabaggers in the U.S. They're heavily subsidized by the current Israeli regime, and since most are ultra-orthodox Jews, they escape military service.
Israel won that war (1967) and can do with the land as they see fit.
If others, especially the UN, do not like it, come and try to take it from Israel. THAT will never happen.
ATC333
'NUFF SAID.....
R Battle: I'm a democrat and support taking out terrorist leaders with drones but do find the humor in Obama making that statement while we do so.
Consider:
Israel can do no wrong news reporting.
Half of all American millionaires being Jewish.
America's Mideast wars all instigated to benefit Israel.
Our support for the horrors Israel visits upon occupied Palestine.
American Jews being central to and grossly enriched by the Wall Street obscenity.
Israel/AIPAC control of our government and actually writing congressional legislation.
Right now, right here in United States, disproportionate Israeli/Jewish media, financial and political control is rampant. Our country, not just Palestine, has been occupied by Israel. The Wall Street felons remaining unpunished and AIPAC actually writing congressional legislation attest to the depth of the occupation.
Once great America has been bankrupted by: 1. Our Mideast wars instigated by Israel. 2. Our support for Israel’s Mideast conquests. 3.The Great Recession felonies of Wall Street Jewish Americans and their traitorous Jewish American government enablers.
As a post WW2 student, I was proud of my country's heritage of democracy, honor, justice, opportunity and stature among nations. Today, I grieve for our diminished America, for our future, for our children and grandchildren.
Remove your comment.
This is your first and final legal notice.
America is a melting pot for everyone from all over the globe. The Jews are a minority in America, but yet some of the most successful. The 47%ers have no desire or motivation to become successful, so they hate the Jews. The 47%ers don't mind cashing their welfare and other freebie checks from taxes the Jews pay.
Justis...you need medication, boy. But you are funny. Sell some tickets.
Justis4U: Why are you so intolerant?
He has some valid points.
If we examine our foreign policy statements and actions, they are determined by Jewish lobby, big corporates (arms manufacturers and oil companies) and lobbyists.
All talks like human rights, women rights, democratic rights, right to practice religion, freedom of speech and so on are simply big talks, dances and dramas for the rest.
John VW - your comment is the same exact nonsense that was uttered by Hitler in the 1930's and directly led to the Holocaust. The Jews were unprepared then, however today - we have an army....and a very good one. The same nonsense that blames Jews for every problem in the world - this is an exact rehash of Hitler. Guess what buddy...it ain't going to work this time. Is your life so pathetic that you need to blame Jews for your failings? Are you so jealous that whereever we go, we are successful? How Jews took a barren wasteland of desert and turned it into one of the most complex and thriving economies in the world (without oil, I may add). Now all of a sudden, the Arabs want it back??? How many of the technological discoveries that progress mankind for the better come out of Israel? When was the last time you saw anything come out of an Arab land that has been for the betterment of mankind? Umm...algebra maybe 1000 years ago? Sorry buddy, your pathetic attempt to discredit Jews isn't going to work this time. And if your anti-semitic cronies want to have at it, I implore you to come to Israel and come face to face with an Israeli marine and spew your nonsense - loser.... You sit behind your keyboard in your posh American home (obviously stolen from Native Americans) and try and dictate to others what to do. When you decide to give your home and land back to the native americans, then we can speak - until then STFU.
John is right about the AICAP. I don't think they write anything but they do have, what I consider, to have to much influence in our Government.
Justis most be tripping on some Settler's Acid, LOL...
Justis4U, I don't agree with those who spat hate, however we still live in the United States when freedom of speech still exist at least for now. Why is your need to threaten those you disagree with?
@ FedupwithFed...
Very specious and irrelevent reasoning. It doesn't matter what they did with the land. It isn't theirs. Furthermore, they entered into a peace agreement brokered by Bill Clinton and they have repeatedly and flagrantly violated that with this illegal settlement building. As to winning the war, we beat Germany and Japan in WWII. Did that make them ours? I think not. Your post is a pathetic piece of zionism. Furthermore, there wouldn't have even been a war had not Britain, China, Russia, U.S. and France not given to the Jews land that wasn't theirs to give. This is analagous to Argentina giving California back to Mexico and Tennessee back to the Cherokees. Is it theirs to give? The Jews didn't establish their nation. The UN did. One last point...you repeatedly invoke Biblical references. So are you also aware that in Matthew 23 Jesus disowned them very clearly and that Paul later stated point blank that the nation of Israel was no longer the fleshly nation of IsrAEL but was instead the Christian Church (congregation)?
Most of your posts reek of tea but this was lame even by your standards.
Remove your hate comment.
Remove your ignorance and blinders. My first loyalty is to the USA. Where is yours?
hahaha..."hate comment". That's cute. Tell me what part of that post is incorrect. I don't hate Jews or Israel. I will, however, point out that Israel killed 2 dozen of our sailors in an unprovoked attack on the USS Liberty. I would call that pretty hateful. It's sad to see someone like you who is presumably an American whose first loyalty is to a foreign nation. They are no more our friends than is Argentina. Their only concern is themselves. And that's okay. But our first concern should also be ourselves, not them. They are doing to the Palestinians what the Turks did to the Armenians. That's a fact. That's not hate. The hate is what the Jews are doing. I suggest you goggle the term "Palestinian solution" in reference to Israel. You are terribly uninformed.
Sure it is. providing its the right "party"...Ie;....
A lot of people posting on these sites seem to have a problem with seeing two sides to issues. Maybe instead of demanding that we are always right perhaps we should see the shades of grey in our arguements.
Justis, in America, that is call Free Speech. If you want go an post in some European Union country website, then you could have all the legal justice, you think you deserve. Only in Europe is a crime to talk about the Jewish Community, not here.
hr, it is a crime in Europe to preach anti-semitism...not to talk about the Jewish community. But our Free Speech does include lies and half-truths like yours.
Thomas, clearly, you have no understanding of history and are in fact just spewing tired anti-Israeli rhetoric. While you point out the USS Liberty, you do not point out that the IDF was hunting Egyptian war ships, and radioed to US Naval command who confirmed that there were no US ships supposedly in the area. A joint US/Israeli command gave the all-clear before the IDF fired because of poor communication by US Naval command and its own ship, compounded by poor ID/tracking technology in the 1960's (we didn't exactly have GPS satellites back then). Anti-Israeli proponents always use the 50 year old Liberty incident try to "prove" Israel is not our friend, when in fact, two independent investigations by the US and Israel found no fault. Try brushing up on ALL the facts, instead of picking and choosing those that suit your opinions.
Cassandra-854239, I was in Hamburg, Germany studying atmospheric science at MPI and know first hand that you cannot invoke conversation that runs contrary to Jewish faith people or at least in public. We did have our side conversations behind closed doors. Why aren't American Indians coddled like the Jewish faith people? They have seen and experienced far worse since the Europeans invaded this land. The British, French and then the US government put bounties on red human pelts for decades. Quite civilized wouldn't you agree not to mention the POW camps they were put on that still exist to this day but renamed as reservations. These POW camps were given numbers by the US Army which are still on the books.
If Palestinians want their own state, what about those non-Muslims who have been driven out of their 1000 years plus native places?
Are there separate laws for Muslims and another set of laws for non-Muslims?
Israel belongs to Jews and Jews of Israel have become a model for reclaiming their lands from Muslim invaders.
Who says? Surely you are not relying on Biblical text written 3000 years ago by delusional Rabbis.
BTW, There is proof that the Bible is not the word of God. The Bible says that the number pi is exactly 3. If we had not ignored that blunder of reality, Apollo 11 would still be looking for the moon. So much for the validity of the so-called 'Word of God', surely He knows better..LMAO...
I remember that.
Arafat said "no" to 97% percent of his demands. (No negotiations--"just give us all our demands")Snubbed Clinton. THEN Gave us the 2nd infatada. SOON LATER: The Israelis who got NOTHING out of Arafat other than caving to 97% of his "demands" must of said to themselves, "hmmm, phooey on this! lets build 1,500 apartments the old jewish quarter in Jerusalem"
For guys like Tex and many others; i.e., Jews building in what should be a Jew-free Jewdea,... this is worse than jews crashing a plane into the Dubai Towers.
Israel settlements is like throwing gas on the fire and they know it and they don't care, how can the GOP-TP support these crazy warmongers !!!
Intellect, you said it was a crime to criticize Jewish people in Germany...then you revealed that it was merely a matter of good manners, considering Germany's past. And as for the Native Americans, they can live on reservations without paying state taxes and where gambling is legally allowed, giving them a very good income.
Israel doesn't belong to jews, it belongs to all Israeli's. And if they stayed inside Israel, instead of illegally occupying land outside of Israel, and recognized the people of Gaza and The West Bank, peace and a two state solution would be within reach.
They didn't reclaim Israel, it was given to them by Britain and the UN.
Ixor/ You may consider reading Kings in the Old Testament to know that Jerusalem was a Philistine, i.e. Palestine city before it was Jewish and is still considered by descendants of the original inhabitants as being ,at the least, shared by both populations.
Here is the thing. Before the European Jew arrived Palestinian Jews, Muslims and Christians lived together in peace. Once the European Jew arrived all hell broke out. And lets not forget..the Brits did not want the Jews because they had their own country to rebuild so they helped the European Jews settle there since they(Brits) were controlling that area.
A little of Jewish history told to me by a Jewish girlfriend many years ago. The Roman conquerors of North Africa warned the Jewish population that they must live in harmony with their neighbors,the Philistines or they would be sent out of that area.The Jews then rebelled against their overlords and spent a time in Rebellion. Upon their defeat,by the Roman Forces they Were enforceable dispersed. This time is called ,by Jewish people The Diaspora, which caused them to move into the surrounding countries. Those countries had no National Identities, but as the immigrants continued to practice their own faith ,they were never absorbed by the indigent populations.There are many recorded instances of Pogroms against them by the countries in which they sought asylum.The worst was Nazi Germany. Continuing their chosen faith maybe considered admirable but the deliberate resumption of their ancient attempt of Genocide of Philistine,because their God ,as they claim, called it Canaan and told them that it was theirs is a heavy stretch.
Thomas,
Ah, but is IS their land.
Israel won it when the took the land after defeating the Arabs in1967. The land is theirs to do with as they will.
Who are we, as outsiders, to judge?
Israel has a right to take care of itself.
Conversely, the Palestinians have a right to take care of themselves.
Wrong, free speech is free speech! Truths and lies are subjective.
Book burners and ones who collapse posts, are possessors of small prejudiced minds.
Settlers? how the heck do you settle a land that is populated already? i think it's called OCCUPATION.
Wiseone? when did you see Palestinians cross the border to "settle" Isreal? oh yeah, it the isreali's crossing the border. here's your sign.
Define the extent of "Israel". As to your comment about Muslim "invaders"...what are you referring to? Go back far enough and according to the Israelis themselves...they conquered the land from the Canaanites. There's a historical claim for almost anything in the middle-east. The question is, what's right NOW...not based on the map 4,000 years ago. IMHO the Israelis are giving the Palestinians no option. Neither side is without blame but you have to give on both sides an option other than occupation or a annihilation.
george pauljohn, I could not agree with you more. That is the same question being asked right here in the USA since 1492. There has yet to be an honest and open dialogue on this subject. Some say treaties sealed the deal but those who were here first have yet to see any of the treatie money. I do know what happens when you do not pay your mortgage don't you? Just ask all of those people who did not pay theirs during the last years of the Bush II administration that continued through this one. Repossession is the name of the game. Time to pay to play or give it back and move back to where you came from.
Listoire,
Yah we know your story....."
The Palestinians have ruled the land now occupied by the Zionist Entity, since the beginning of time. The first inhabitants of the land were Palestinus Rex, dinosaurs who were the ancestors of the Palestinian people: creatures which terrorized every living thing on earth with wild, irrational attacks. Palestinus was slain by David, the first king of the Palestinians. The city of Al Kuds was fashioned out of the dead body of the dinosaur, and became David’s capital. The Israelis at this time lived in Poland, which was located in the Sinai Desert."
These hysterical facts are plain and open, to anyone able and willing to believe them.
I, for one, am glad the settlers are digging in. King Obama deserves a BIG F-U by the Israelis after he's been president for more than four years and has visited basically every country in the world (apologizing for the United States), including the Muslim Brotherhood - the only exceptions being Iran.... and Israel.
"only exceptions being Iran.... and Israel"
The two most disliked countries in the world. One being an Islamic Republic and the other a Jewish state.
Go figure.
I phrased my post that way to out the anti-semites. Thanks for taking the bait.
In reality, the ONLY thing those nations have in common is that King Obama, who says he is pro-israel, has served an entire term without visiting.
And just so you know, the US is also one of the most hated countries in the world. The only thing that held us above the rest was our exceptionalism and the fact that countries were afraid to eff with us - the two things that King Obama has been trying to take away from us... just as Saint Clinton's gutless withdrawal in Mogadishu, which Bin Laden actually cited as what convinced him that America was vulnerable and didn't have the stomach to fight a real war. What King Obama is doing to our country both economically and militarily will no doubt one day come full circle.
@Realist17
You render your argument moot from the point you refer to our President as "King", which is a male monarch of a major territorial unit; especially : one whose position is hereditary and who rules for life. Our President was elected by a popular majority. Everything you spit after that is of no value.
The Israelis cannot survive without our financial help, period. They depend on us financially. Inform yourself.
@lilirocks, my reference to Obama as King is a reference of how he carries himself - with the arrogance of a King who does not operate in a system of checks and balances. Sorry if a little literary license is beyond you. Coming from an obvious MSNBC sheep, I would think that would appeal to you. Anyway, I digress...
So you are saying that because Obama continues to send money to Israel, he is therefore necessarily pro-Israel? He also sends money to Egypt, and tried to send money to the Palestinians. http://www.timesofisrael.com/obama-lifts-freeze-on-192-million-aid-package-to-palestinian-authority/
So why don't you inform YOURself. Contrast that with Bill Clinton, who even pledged to fight as a combat soldier with the Israeli army. http://rense.com/general27/sold.htm
So for you to insinuate that Obama is a strong supporter of Israel is beyond stupid.
@Realist17
I think you're beyond stupid for not being able to understand a clear comment in front of you, as well as for your prior insinuations. Obama don't have to be a "strong supporter of Israel" but instead Israel IS supposed to be a strong supporter of the U.S. Without us, they cannot survive. And they ARE wrong in this situation, and they know it
The Palestinians blew it in 1948 and are still blowing it.They rejected their own state and joined by crazed Muslim terrorist set out to destroy a sovereign state.Back to negotiations with Israel! one on one...Israel gve up land in Gaza and Sinai and all they got was rockets and missiles.Where dors NBC dig up these writers.Back to journalism school for you. to learn to cover something not throw in your 2 bit opinions. I agree with Obama about many things but his policy on the mideast with the Arab Spring the Brotherhood and on Israel seems a little bit like Chamberlain tying to appease the Nazis,His enery should on attacking Iran,and defeating this Islamic terrorist state that is a threat to the whole world,He better not back down on Iran .He said he will use all force necessary.Well, the time is now.Iran more or less has the bomb now and has admitted they have "nuclear capacity" and it`s not for x-ray machines or cancer treatment. The U.S should lead the attack and soon!
Well-said Bart. The Palestinians also blew it about 10 years ago when Israel offered Arafat a Palestinian state, and Arafat backed down because his extremists would have killed him had he reached the deal. The problem is that Hamas will always be there to kill anybody who strikes a deal with Israel that doesn't end with the destruction of Israel. http://likud.nl/2012/02/clinton-slams-arafat-for-rejecting-peace/
Had Arafat had a backbone, things might have been very different today. As they say, the Palestinians never miss and opportunity to miss an opportunity. This is something that the blind anti-semites like lilirocks will never understand. If Israeel supported Obama's position with respect to Iran, they would be supporting their own destruction.
And now even the Washington Post is printing the story of the Ayatollah's statement that the US couldn't stop Iran from building the nuclear bomb even if it wanted to. They are successfully running out the clock on (either the dumbest, most dangerous, or both) President ever to serve this great nation.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/top-iranian-leader-says-no-power-could-stop-iran-from-having-nuclear-bomb-if-it-wanted-it/2013/02/16/d85688ee-7816-11e2-b102-948929030e64_story.html
@Realist17
Opinions like yours don't bother me. If you categorize me as anti-Semite, which is a racial suggestion, for the wrong behavior of the Israeli country, then I would categorize you as anti-American and unpatriotic because you might hate Obama's policies. We all know these are just personal opinions.
Israelis claim that Palestine is actually the site of the ancient land of Israel, which was, according to the Hebrew Bible, promised to the Jews by God. Palestinian Arabs, on the other hand, claim that their sustained and continuous majority status as residents of the region grants them the right to control it.
But don't you actually see an awkwardness in the fact that Israel granted dominion of Gaza strip to Palestinians and remove all their settlements from an area that became controlled by Hamas right after? Considering the world's recognized efficiency of Israeli intelligence? And this, at the same time they're unwilling to recognize the West Bank, which is where the Israelis are increasing settlements? In an area willing to negotiate a peace treatment and where Palestinians didn't recognize Hamas as a legitimate government?
When people want to ignore facts and get fooled, they are.
restarting peace talks? LOL obamas been feeding the terrorists Morsi and pissing on the jews for 4 years...I love MSNBC what crock of crap
Lilirocks,
Thank you for admitting that Israelis did grant Palestinians Gaza and most of West Bank (most pro-Palestinians pretend not to notice).
The next step will be admitting that Palestinians responded to being given West Bank with suicidal bombers and to being given Gaza with rocket attacks. That convinced Israelis that giving land to Palestinians does not work, so the set the settlers loose.
As for the "area willing to negotiate a peace treatment and where Palestinians didn't recognize Hamas as a legitimate government" the PA in that area will have to actually start negotiating before they qualify for that description.
Eli100,
Maybe you're not American but instead Israeli, or too naive to interpret the irony on my last paragraph to Realist17.
In addition to such irony, Gaza Strip and the West Bank are two very separate and distinctive places. And the PA cannot negotiate with deaf ears of someone who doesn't want to negotiate. Please don't try to confuse anyone by incorporating two separate sides as one.
Btw, Eli
I'm not pro or against anyone or any country. Just able to see facts.
Lilirocks,
I am an American, but do have friends in Israel and have been keeping track of the situation for a very long time.
May be you are not American but Arab, or just too naive to understand the irony of your claims.
You say that Gaza and West Bank are two "separate and distinctive places", yet whenever PA representatives make public appearances they claim that there is only one state of Palestine. Or did Hamas ever recognize them as two separate states?
I am yet to hear an actual Palestinian to admit that there are two separate Palestines. See the paradox?
Israel made plenty of concessions to show that they are willing to negotiate. In the past they gave up land, released prisoners, frozen removed settlements. They stopped doing that lately, because they never saw any gestures of peace in response.
If you can see facts, can you give me an example of something PA did to show that they want peace? Any concessions? Anything at all?
It's they who have "deaf ears of someone who doesn't want to negotiate", not Israel.
People, what this comes down to is that Israel IS a Jewish state, they ARE NOT going to give up more land for a peace that will never happen (if the leaders have ANY sense), and they should not tolerate any Palestinian state that tries to fragment their country or any land they won in wars. F___— the Palestinians AND their silly, anti-Israel supporters
Eli100
Allow me to be more clear to you:
It's very obvious that when Israel moved all their settlements from Gaza Strip, they already knew what was going to happen next. They thrive in the Palestinian conflict for many different reasons. They never gave any land or concessions to the West Bank like you're claiming. They got themselves out of Gaza Strip, but never did so with the West Bank, and in fact they increased settlements (the only objection of those Palestinians).
Israelis do not want an end to this conflict, period.
I'm done for tonight, good bye and happy discussions
lilirocks,
Now that's a funny claim: "They never gave any land or concessions to the West Bank like you're claiming."
So how did Palestinians get there in the first place? See as, Israelis won that land in the war of 67 form Jordan. You do know that it used to be Jordan, don't you?
You really need to do some homework, find out who had how much land in the past, so you wont make any more embarrassing statements.
But thank you for providing a sample of typical reaction to Israeli concessions. Israel handed Gaza over to Palestinians on a silver platter, but they knew that Palestinians will mess up this opportunity, so it doesn't count, right?
Then, do you expect a different result if Israel does give up more of West Bank?
May be that will only provide more Palestinian conflict for Israel to strive on and for you and yours to use as an excuse when Palestinians start shooting rockets out of West Bank the way they do out of Gaza.
Got to love it when people end their claims with "period". I think "period" translates "this is what I choose to believe for no reason, logic be damned".
Most disliked/hated are Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, the fountainheads of Islamic extremism, especially Sunni ones.
They are responsible for their Salaffi and Wahhabi mosques, hate preaching and killer training centers all over the world.
Saudi Arabia does not permit non-Muslim religious places and does not give freedom to practice non-Muslim religions.
At the same time, these bigoted seventh century barbarians of Sunni House of Saud and other Sunni rulers have been funding their Salaffi and Wahhabi mosques.
We see them springing up from nowhere all over the world.
They invented, funded and exported their Sunni Islamic killers like al Qaida, MB, Boko Haram, Taliban and other label ones.
Even they are responsible for the rock throwing and rocket firing Hamas.
Examine 9/11, one of the biggest terrorist attack and Pakis shielding Osama.
Ironically, these bigoted Sunnis don't even tolerate Shiites and treat females like slaves!
It was Reagan who brought the Qaida to power to overthrow the leader of Iran for a more favorable government to the US. The US has had their hand in almost everyone of those you have mentioned. We tend to create our own problems that affect the world down the road for a short term goal.
The white man stole the land from the indians and the mexicans.... that makes it ours? I think not!
UN resolution 242 is very clear that lands occupied by Israel, taken in war, do not belong to them. All israeli settlement of the areas are illegal. Simple.
Israel has a right to exist within the borders the British defined upon their exit. It was a very wise decision that Jerusalem would not belong to either side, but would remain a UN protectorate. The land grab has been the root of the conflict since then.
(The collapsenicks have been very busy while I was away.)
Eli 100,
In 1947, Jews owned 7% of the land in what was known as the British mandate. Partition offered them 53% of the territory. Both sides were upset and rejected it. Jews began the attacks on arabs before the British even left.
The search for the City of David may offer tourists a reminder of Jerusalem's ancient past. But for the Palestinians whose homes are threatened by the excavations, archaeology is merely the latest weapon being used against them. To casual observer, scene may appear a scene in Italy, Spain, or even Turkey, we might have left it there: the tourists come, stare, spend money and go. But here their effect is devastating – and most of them don't even know it. For the town that nestles here, in this valley on the southern flank of Jerusalem, is Silwan, home to some 55,000 Palestinians, annexed by Israel along with east Jerusalem in 1967, and currently one of the hottest spots in the contest between the rights of the Palestinian townspeople and the plans that Israel has for the area – plans put into effect through a series of administrative measures, clandestine coalitions, and progressive-sounding projects. None of which could work without the funding that floods into Israel from the west.
What do the tourists know of this? These gentle, grey-haired folk have come here, on their Jewish National Fund coaches, to visit the archaeological dig for Ir David, the City of David, which, it is claimed, lies below the Wadi Helweh neighbourhood in Silwan and justifies the digging, the shafts and the tunnelling going on in the belly of the hill and under the homes of the people who live here.
Elad set up a two-pronged strategy: to strengthen Israel's "connection to Jerusalem" they started to dig – under Silwan and into the land under the al-Aqsa mosque – for the biblical City of David and to create the Ir David tourist site. [See footnote] They called it "salvage excavation" to avoid getting official permits. The "salvage" has lasted for more than 10 years and Wadi Helweh's houses have started to sink into the hill.
To help "the Jewish people to return to Zion", in 1991 Be'eri started to acquire Palestinian property (supported by Ariel Sharon, then minister of construction and housing). His target was prin cipally two Silwan neighbourhoods: Wadi Helweh and al-Bustan (the Garden).
Most scholars agree that, to this day, no evidence of the presence of Kings David or Solomon has been found at the site. But our group of elderly American tourists are spellbound by the stories they are hearing from Elad's guides, stories which are conjecture, projection and myth. In Silwan, the City of David Organisation is telling the archaeologists where to dig and what to look for.
The Palestinians sense that Israel has moved from ihtilal to ihlal; from occupation to replacement, and that making life unlivable for Palestine's Palestinians is the prelude to transforming Palestine itself. This is what the money coming from the west will achieve INCLUDING SUPPORT FROM U.S. TAXPAYERS!
Nowadays this area is a tourist site run by the private Jewish organization Elad, which leads visitors through a complex of tunnels and cavernous spaces that show how the ancients created a water system that allowed them to live on the not very large hill that is the center of Jerusalem.
The people who were responsible for the original structure were probably Canaanites, specifically the people known in the Bible as Jebusites. According to 2 Samuel 5, David took the city from the Jebusites (around 1000 BCE) and turned the city into his capital.
Israel continues to rely upon public ignorance and manipulated U.S. policy to terrorize, steal & abuse Palestinians. Do not be deceived! I am neither Arab nor Israeli, but an American tax payer who resents lies and distortions at my expense and expense of fellow Americans' US$!
Eli100
LMAO&U!
Those Palestinians where there long before biblical Jewish from the time of Moses, appeared there all of a sudden by a Mandate from the U.N., organism from which Israelis don't give a blind F*&K.
Sorry, no offense intended, but I honestly don't know if you're PLAYING ignorant on this subject or you really are.
READ THIS:
Palestinians are the same people with (2) different governments, in (2) different geographical locations. The Palestinians in West Bank DID NOT VOTE FOR HAMAS ('terrorists") instead they didn't recognize Hamas as their government and they wanted to negotiate. COMPRENDE?
For some of you trying to throw Palestinians of both Gaza and West Bank into one group, remember that if the West Bank would have accepted Hamas they would have voted for them just like Gaza Strip did. And while Israelis have a "semi-government" at the West Bank, Gaza Strip (Hamas) has an independent government with an Israeli border
.
Eli100, Surprised or upset?
"I honestly don't know if you're PLAYING ignorant on this subject or you really are." - funny I was thinking the same about you.
In the time of Biblical Jews all the Arabs were still traveling tribes.
Perhaps you are playing that angle that Palestinians are descendants of Canaanians. That nation was getting absorbed into Jews long before Arabs started settling down in the area. Jews have a lot more claim for Canaanian heritage than Palestinians do. The claim that "Palestinians where there long before biblical Jewish from the time of Moses" is downright idiotic.
The term "Palestinians" was invented by Romans when they destroyed the Hebrew kingdom. Since then the area was won over from each other by various countries half a dozen times.
There never was a Palestinian state until the partition plan in 1948, which Jews have accepted, but Arabs in the area refused and started war instead. That is the only reason why the formation of a Palestinian
In 1967, when Israel defeated 5 Arab states in a war and won the West Bank from Jordan, and instead of just keeping the spoils (as any other country would) they allowed those Arabs who did not like sharing a state with Jews to form their own state there. In return, they got suicidal bombings and highway shootings. Since then they have been forming or moving settlements basically treating the area as a war zone.
Even if you deny it in cap, the fact remains that Israelis have removed quite few settlements from West bank in hope that it will appease Palestinians, but it didn't.
That is where your Palestinian state came from.
As for "trying to throw Palestinians of both Gaza and West Bank into one group" - once again, it's not me who does that, it's their own leaders. All complaints to them please.
Note, I asked you for an example of something AP (as is the government that runs West Bank, and has nothing to do with Gaza and Hamas) did to show their desire of peace, and you got nothing.
You claim that PA tried negotiate, but all their negotiations consisted of saying "give us what we want, then we'll talk." They rejected any offer that Israel made, walked away from the table a dozen times.
Lilirocks, Surprised or upset?
Eli100,
Israeli history texts are more revisionist than those from Texas it appears.
I don't have time to explain the historical timeline again, but, Israel only existed as an independant state for about 550 years in total. An Arab town existed where Ashkelon is now, before Jerusalem was founded. The Bar Kockhba rebellion left no living jews in the area in the second century. Before 1850 only a few jewish families were in the region and were barred from living in Jerusalem.
Any claims that the current state of Israel has bargained in good faith are highly exagerated.
Eli100
Like I said before, and I know now, you don't "PLAY" ignorant or stupid, you just ARE. Not been able to understand simple English writing, says so.
You see, (or probably don't), United Nations created the state of Israel. If you want to claim land from descendants of an ancient lost tribe, you might as well do so with descendants of Sumerians, Babylonians, Hittites, Lydians, Persians, etc, etc. and just let them re-occupy their land with an added bonus: "No one is going to dispute the ownership of your land".
You see, dimwit, "war for conquest", ended way back at WWI. After that, the world has changed, and people coming in cannot legally take away land from others. It's just the present way of doing things.
Filthy supporters of Zion need to be nuked for destroying Palestine for their own selfish needs. They are disgusting animals who are disgusting monkies who fart in eachother's faces. They are dirty scum and they shall fart in eachother's faces.
ED and Lillirocks,
Israel existed as an independent sate for 2000 years. Jews did not choose to reclaim the land of ancient ancestors, they were forced into it by nations around the world who refused to accept Jews into their countries.
No one claims heritage of Hitties or Babilonians because when those countries were destroyed, their people got to move to other countries and be absorbed into their population. Jews did not get such privilege.
As for "war of conquest" Israel never practiced that, they fought back when they were attacked and ended up taking land in the process, because in war you have to take ground or die where you stand.
By all means, Lillirocks, keep throwing insults, that's the only argument pro-Palestinians ever had in their favor, so that's all you can do, but logic is still on my side and anyone who wonders onto this site gets to see it clearer every time you insult me.
Eli100,
For most of that 2000 years you say that Israel was an independant state, it was, in fact, a conquered territory, a province of a large empire and not independant at all. They caused trouble for their various conquerers and were subsequently deciplined. The Bar Kokhba rebellion was the last straw for the Romans who sent 6 full legions and elements from 6 more to crush the rebellions once and for all. By 136 AD there were no jews left alive in the region. For the next 1700 years they were gone.
Any small element of a society that shuns social contact with the rest will be suspected of something. It only takes a few very bad apples to have the entire clan labeled as undesireable. The Hasidim give the appearance of looking down upon all who are not like them, including non hasidic jews. In the middle ages this would have been enough to expunge them, and by association the rest of the jews, from their society. If the inquisition got hold of them it was worse, unless they renounced their faith. This reaction is not exclusive to jews, there are many other examples throughout history. The puritans are one.
Forced back into that particular piece of land? Do you know how rediculous that sounds?
As for your 'war of conquest' statement, now you're just lying as you admitted that Israel started the 1967 war in previous post. A pledge is intrenched in the Jewish marriage ceremony to reclaim all the lands that "God" promised them. ( A friend got a deal on the cost of his wedding if the ceremony included explanations of all that was happening for students who would also be in attendance. It was explained in plain english.) It is an expansionist policy and they took the opportunity.
America had it's part in the 1967 war as well and so did the USSR. It was a real world live fire exercise to test their weapons, with the Soviet weapons losing.
Logic is based on empirical fact, and your arguement does not contain all the facts.
You say that land stopped being land of Israel because Jews were banished from there.
Well, by your own logic, it's no longer Arab land, since they were banished form there.
In other words: finders - keepers, losers - weepers.
I most certainly did not say that Israel started the war of 1967, I admitted that it involved preemptive strike, which would not have happened if there was an invasion force on the way to destroy Israel. I stand by my statement that is was a defensive war, not a war of conquest.
It's funny how you make references to a Jewish wedding, since I doubt you've ever been to one. The pledge refers to returning to Jerusalem, nothing more. I don't know what kind of crazy deals were added to your friends ceremony, I've been to a dozen Jewish weddings and never seen anything politically related there.
Jews were always more than willing to live under somebody else's rule as long as they are not separated from Jerusalem. Especially Hasidim, who believe that it's the fate of the Jews to always suffer at somebody's hand and it's a sin to resist it (that by the way is what they mean when they talk about "chosen people", would it still frustrate you if the Jews were called "chosen to suffer"?).
You've given a nice example about inquisition, but seem unaware that renouncing face would not be enough to get those guys of your back. Converted Jews would still be viewed as unreliable and kept under extra-close gaze, they would often end up arrested for choking on a peace of bacon or something else like that. many believed that once a Jew - always a Jew.
Good Catholic were not the only ones with such attitude. There were good Orthodox Christians with their pogroms, good Muslims with forced conversions f their own, good Atheists with KGB, and finally good Protestants with the Nazi movement.
Conversions never helped, changing names never helped, someone with Jewish ancestry always had a bulls eye on the back of their head, no matter how hard he tried to prove that he is not Jewish.
That is what convinced us once and for all is that the only way for Jews ever to be accepted as a part of humanity is to have a country of our own.
And guess what, now that we have Israel, our lives, although still not perfect, but better than ever.
@Eli100
Actually lilirocks is right on her assertion of the ongoing conflict.
For political, financial, strategical and several other reasons, it's not convenient for the Israeli government to end the Palestinian conflict (which they could've ended a long time ago, one way or the other. Though several polls have shown that the majority of Israelis want peace and the conflict to end.
Our U.S. government knows the situation- the reason why though we apply pressure to them for negotiations, we keep giving them a break when it comes to U.N. decisions against them. The situation is a bit complicated for both of our governments.
WTF? How many nations exist on this earth? And for some reason (in your mind) an American President is required to make a pilgrimage to Israel during his first term? You'd probably be happier if you simply moved to Israel...easier to kiss ass when your actually there.
JJsee,
Israeli politicians need to run for reelections, and the people demand peace. No one would vote for them if they were seen to throw away chances to make peace.
True, many of them enjoy war, but there is also a left-wing that works toward peace. As Palestinians keep rejecting offers and setting preconditions for negotiations they are playing right in the hands of Israeli right and weaken the Israeli left.
That by the way, is exactly what made the campaign for Bibi.
If you hate Bibi, you have Hamas to thank for his success.
Maybe if the Israelis stop treating the palestinians like dirt and followed international laws there could be peace, but they are gods chosen people and the are above that.
Sure...Israel routinely fires missles into the Gaza not caring where they land. No one can understand why the Israelis do this to the peaceful Hamas.
bob-1800129 - look at it from another perspective :
Maybe if the Palistianians stop treating the Israelis like dirt and followed international laws there could be peace, but they are Allah's chosen people and they are above that.
Zheng,
Someone needs to start somewhere, but somehow I don't think either idea would ever happen. My greatgrand children will still be dealing with this problem
Zheng He-you have got to start watching other news sources than Huff Post and NBC. I believe you will see that if there is a battle, it was started by Palestinians (probably paid to do it) and when Israel retaliates, it is with the least amount of force and with great care where they land.
Independent: Palestinians are trying to wipe Israel from the map? That is so funny, with what Army? I forgot, rocks and slingshots. What a short sided statement!
Bob - I've been to Israel. Jews, Arabs, and Christians live very peacefully side by side within the country. Here, we have land that Israel won in the 1967 war where it was attacked by three neighboring countries. Ask yourself who really treats who like dirt?
hrfdez - really, rocks and slingshots? Kartush rockets (thousands of which were fired into Israel last year) are not rocks nor slingshots. The Iranian government has publicly vowed to wipe Israel off the map and are now pursuing a nuclear program for "peaceful purposes," an army is not needed to destroy a country that is only 200 miles across. That is why Israel must be vigilant, and sometimes proactive, in its ability to defend itself.
UN resolution 242 is very clear that lands occupied by Israel, taken in war, do not belong to them. All israeli settlement of the areas are illegal. Simple.
Israel has a right to exist within the borders the British defined upon their exit. It was a very wise decision that Jerusalem would not belong to either side, but would remain a UN protectorate. The land grab has been the root of the conflict since then.
Hmm,
Israel attacked first in 1967. Just the facts.
ED - the UN can legislate from the comfort of their chambers, they were neither involved with nor affected by the 1967 war. They didn't loose lives or fire a weapon. What they think is irrelevant to the reality on the ground. Similar to how we have made guns illegal in Chicago yet gangs still shoot each other daily.
Israel was fine existing within its borders for nearly two decades before Egypt, Syria, and Lebanon amassed troops along their borders with Israel, prompting the preemptive strike. Israel is a small country, surrounded by ideological enemies, who have promised publicly to attack and destroy it. They must protect themselves proactively and have done so successfully each time threatened. When they fail to act, they fall victim to rocket attacks. Just the facts...
Mmm, spin all you like. It still doesn't make right or legal.
bewildered0224
Zheng He-you have got to start watching other news sources than Huff Post and NBC. I believe you will see that if there is a battle, it was started by Palestinians (probably paid to do it) and when Israel retaliates, it is with the least amount of force and with great care where they land.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I'm 100% pro-Israel. You misunderstood my post; it was responding to Bob.
Maybe if the Israelis stop treating the palestinians like dirt and followed international laws there could be peace, but they are gods chosen people and the are above that.
Muslim countries don't abide by international laws....
Just because one side is bad, doesn't automatically make the other side good. It's a two way street, Israel attacks the Palestinians as much as, if not more than, the Palestinians attack Israel.
When commenting on the Palestine Israeli Conflict I would suggest that all bloggers study the period 1944 to 1964 inclusive, Also King James Old Testiment Kings..
Ed you might want to take a look at the UN mandate that you are speaking about and see what nations signed it. It was pushed and signed by Muslim nations...
We ignore 99% of UN mandates as a nation but you seem to think that Israel is required to follow them???
When the muslims start acting like civilized human beings and quit attacking Israel maybe then they can say it is not far but as long as they continue to act like animals then they should be treated like animals!!!
I know they will not sign a treaty with Israel, remember what happened to the last muslim leader that signed a treaty with Israel? One of the current leaders of Al Queda, killed him!!!
If obama really wants to make a difference he will go after all of the muslim nations and put them in binds telling them to start forcing Iran to stop arming the terorists that attack Israel daily, and tell them to start putting pressure on Palestine to act fair and quit making outrages demands as well!!!
Palestanian people came to be after the 60s and if you do a little research on the PLO you will find this out!!!! 99% of the so called palestine people actually originated from Jordan and Egypt they were the outcasts of those nations!!!
garrier, if you did a little research you would see that Israel won their independence and jewish state through terrorism.
Superskunk, you better what out for Eli100. When you speak the truth about Israel he gets very upset. They used terrorism against the British and the US of A. I say let them attack Iran and let them fend for themselves. Also, not one single of taxpayer dollar should go towards the rebuilding of anything that the Iranians will destroy. They can talk the talk, let them walk the walk.
I am not upset.
Yest, Israel was built through terrorism. People who were fleeing form the Nazis and discovered that British and Arabs don't give a dam if they are fried extra-crispy an want to toss them straight back into the nazi territory had turned to terrorism in order to survive. It was do or die.
That is hardly an excuse for the Muslims who turn to terrorism simply because they can't stand having Jews live next door.
As for Iran, Israel can take them.
Israel defeated 7 Arab states without any help from USA, they showed that they can walk the walk just fine.
I actually wont mind if US aid is cut to Israel, but only on one condition,that the aid is also cut to Pakistan, Egypt, Palestinians and all the other Muslim states. Would you guys be OK with that?
Eli100, you said,
"Israel defeated 7 Arab states without any help from USA, they showed that they can walk the walk just fine."
I laughed out loud. If you are refering to 1948, where do you think all the sherman tanks came from? Trucks from American bases, supposedly out of service for repairs, were taking weapons, ammo, and jewish refugees on the long trip from europe to the British mandate, breaking the immigration and import laws set up by the British. By 1948, jews still owned only 7% of the territory in the British mandate.
The jewish terrorism against the British started before Naziism was seen to be a threat. One jewish terrorist group tried to ally with the nazis against the British until late 1942. The third leader of that group went on to become Prime minister of Israel. They wiped an arab village off the map as one of the first acts after partition was announced. This scared thousands of arabs off of their land, and they've been in refugee camps ever since. This is how the Palistinians learned that acts of terrorism could win you a nation.
Disgusting Arabs need to be nuked. A large nuclear weapon over an Arab town would be so hilarious. I would laugh out loud to Allah to see that. Arab women are fat and unattractive. I wouldn't want to bone one. They need to lose 50 pounds, or more. Their teeth smell really bad. They have bad halitosis. I think their teeth are rotted. It's really gross. They need to brush their teeth twice a day and floss and gargle with mouthwash, like hydrogen peroxide mixed with 3 parts water. They are filthy skanks that smell.
ED,
You are the one who makes me laugh out loud. USA stopped helping Israel the moment they heard that Israel is not going to side with them against USSR. They donated a few things to Israel before that, but from then on everything came from private donations or from Jewish soldiers among allied forces, who grabbed what they could.
And I was not talking just about 1948, there was also 1967.
Yes, I am aware of all the horror-stories about Irgun, who tried to make a deal with Nazis to get few more refugees into the Holy Land and who wiped out an Arab village that participated in the blockade of Jerusalem.
Such groups indeed existed before WWII, but when you say that it's "before Naziism was seen to be a threat" you mean seen by USA and Britain. Jews could see them as a threat much earlier, see as they were the ones getting fried extra-crispy.
Plus, Naizs were not the only ones turning on Jews, every country had an antisemitic movement of their own.
Jewish terrorism was still carried out by people fighting for survival.
Eli100,
You undercut your story when claim that Deir Yassin was a blockade. They were a peaceful village that cooperated with the nearby jewish village of Givat Shaul. Menahem Begin was the leader of Irgun at the time and they killed men women and children. It was a calculated act, a message that scared many thousands of arabs to flee for their lives. It also was the act that galvanized arab nations to attack 5 weeks later.
1967 was fought with American weapons against Soviet weapons, Neither of whom wanted direct involvement. The were, however very interested in the field testing of those weapons.
Terrorism is wrong no matter who does it. Jewish terrorism began in the British mandate before 1933 so it was not a "fight for survival" as yo put it. Rewarding terrorism by granting Israel nationhood set a presedent that was not lost on the Palistinians, who were obviously not as good at it.
I admit that Irgun caused lot's of unnecessary bloodshed, that's why the rest on his side condemned him, but they had no choice but to allow Irgun on their side because they were desperate, and because they indeed had to break the blockade or Jerusalem would starve.
In 1967 both USA and USSR declared neutrality. Loud and clear. I see no reason to believe that any weapons used there came from government and not private contributors. Although, suppose you are right about the weapons, that hardly gives Israel any unfair advantage. USSR invested most of the country's resources into weapons, you know.
Are you under impression that Jews of Europe were safe in 1930s?
Pogroms were in full force in the 19th century. Then there was WWI. Which led to series of revolutions. Each country that had a revolution had a few new movements raise their heads and that always included a nationalist movement, who wanted to make a statement of their cause by killing a few Jews. Finally, the civil war in Russia, into which Jewish pogroms got incorporated just perfectly.
So, yes, I stand by what I said, getting out of Europe was a matter of survival, and British were signing the death-sentence of those they were tossing back into Europe, and terrorists were fighting to save lives.
NBC, are you competing for the Joseph Goebbels prize for anti-Jewish propaganda? This dishonest, hypocritical piece of garbage puts you in the running. According to NBC Jews can only live in narrowly defined areas, but Arab/Moslems can live any where they want. According to NBC, Jews constructing housing for Jews is an obstacle to peace, but Arab/ Moslems murdering Jewish men, women and children is acceptable. If you had any integrity or professional ethics, you would be embarrassed and ashamed. But sadly, you don't.
@DougJMiller, that is exactly why, of those surveyed in the most recent poll, only 5% said that NBC news was the most trusted network. This landed NBC last next to, of all things, the COMEDY CHANNEL (msnbc came in at 8%). NBC's ship is sinking, and I'm kinda enjoying it.
Incidentally, 3% of those polled identify NBC as the least-trusted news network. That makes NBC, at best, irrelevant. So it's no surprise that they print crap like this. They have sacrificed journalistic integrity to print anything that will draw attention - the true sign of desperation.
Nuke the WHOLE middle-east area. I am so bored and fed up of Jews and Palestinians.
Problem solved.
Next
Waste of a nuke. just get out of the Mideast all together, grab some snacks and a cold beer, then kick back and watch the show.
I do not care if Israel exists or not. Good luck guys.
Right. You'll change your tune when Israel drives the Palestineans into Southern Labanon. Nobody wants to be bothered by the Israeli/Palestinian conflict until Israel decides that they have had enough, and they take action on their own. Then, the international cry for peace resumes, and the US persuades Israel to stand down. Not long after that, the daily rocket attack resume.
Israel use to occupy Gaza. In yet another land for peace deal, Israel agreed to withdraw from Gaza, and they followed through. Today, rockets are routinely launched into Israel from Gaza.
So here's my question for the anti-Israel crowd: Realistically, what should the Israelis expect to receive in return, if they were to concede the West Bank?
Israel should just drive the Palestinians out, once and for all. I'm not talking genocide - as that's what was perpetrated on the Jews by Hitler. I'm just saying clear them out of this land that was Israel's to begin with (last I heard, when somebody takes land in a war, that land is theirs - or would you like us to give our land back to the American Indians?) Oh wait - I forgot... if Israel were to do that, the UN would CONDEMN them! OH NO, NOT THAT!!!!! LOL
If you steal my land, you will never have peace!
Egypt, Syria, and Jordan should not have attacked Israel back in 1967 then.
They didn't Tammy.
Joe I guess you sympathize with Iran and North Korea now? After all, they just amass weapons and provoke fights, but never fire first. And when sanctioned, they cry that we are the agressors. Pretty much what happened in 1967 when Egypt, Syria/Lebanon, and Syria sent troops and artillery support to the Israeli border. I guess Israel should have waited for the full-on 3 front assault before returning fire? Seems like a great way to protect borders, citizens, and existence.
MmmMmmBeer - Here is what happened in 1967, from the lips of Israel's former leaders and generals.
"The thesis that the danger of genocide was hanging over us in June
1967 and that Israel was fighting for its physical existence is only bluff,
which was born and developed after the war."
Israeli General Matityahu Peled, Ha'aretz, 19 March 1972.
“The former Commander of the Air
Force, General Ezer Weitzman, regarded as a hawk, stated that there was ‘no
threat of destruction’ but that the attack on Egypt, Jordan and Syria was
nevertheless justified so that Israel could ‘exist according the scale, spirit,
and quality she now embodies.’...Menahem Begin had the following remarks to
make: ‘In June 1967, we again had a choice. The Egyptian Army concentrations in
the Sinai approaches do not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We
must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him.’“ Noam Chomsky,
“The Fateful Triangle.”
“I do not think Nasser wanted war.
The two divisions he sent to The Sinai would not have been sufficient to launch
an offensive war. He knew it and we knew it.” Yitzhak Rabin, Israel’s Chief
of Staff in 1967, in Le Monde, 2/28/68
“Moshe Dayan, the celebrated
commander who, as Defense Minister in 1967, gave the order to conquer the
Golan...[said] many of the firefights with the Syrians were deliberately
provoked by Israel, and the kibbutz residents who pressed the Government to
take the Golan Heights did so less for security than for the farmland...[Dayan
stated] ‘They didn’t even try to hide their greed for the land...We would send
a tractor to plow some area where it wasn’t possible to do anything, in the
demilitarized area, and knew in advance that the Syrians would start to shoot.
If they didn’t shoot, we would tell the tractor to advance further, until in
the end the Syrians would get annoyed and shoot.
And then we would use artillery and
later the air force also, and that’s how it was...The Syrians, on the fourth
day of the war, were not a threat to us.’” The New York Times, May 11, 1997
Any reader can plainly see, Israel started the 1967 war,with the goal of annexing more land. There was no threat from any of the Arab nations.
“In violation of international law,
Israel has confiscated over 52 percent of the land in the West Bank and 30
percent of the Gaza Strip for military use or for settlement by Jewish
civilians...From 1967 to 1982, Israel’s military government demolished 1,338
Palestinian homes on the West Bank. Over this period, more than 300,000
Palestinians were detained without trial for various periods by Israeli
security forces. “Intifada: The Palestinian Uprising Against Israeli
Occupation,” ed. Lockman and Beinin.
World
opinion on the legality of Israeli control of the West Bank and Gaza.
“Under the UN Charter there can
lawfully be no territorial gains from war, even by a state acting in
self-defense. The response of other states to Israel’s occupation shows a
virtually unanimous opinion that even if Israel’s action was defensive, its
retention of the West Bank and Gaza Strip was not...The [UN] General Assembly
characterized Israel’s occupation of the West Bank and Gaza as a denial of self
determination and hence a ‘serious and increasing threat to international peace
and security.’ “ John Quigley, “Palestine and Israel: A Challenge to
Justice.”
http://www.sixdaywar.co.uk/crucial_quotes.htm
"Our goal is clear - to wipe Israel off the map"
President Aref of Iraq,
May 31st 1967.
May 15th 1967 “Israel wants to make it clear to the government of Egypt that it has no aggressive intentions whatsoever against any Arab state at all” - Israel’s Prime Minister Levi Eshkol
May 16th 1967
'...I gave my instructions to all UAR forces to be ready for action against Israel the moment it might carry out any aggressive action against any Arab country. Due to these instructions our troops are already concentrated in Sinai on our eastern border. For the sake of the complete security of all UN troops…I request that you issue your orders to withdraw all troops immediately. [5] - written request from Nasser to Commander UNEF (Gaza)
"The existence of Israel has continued too long. We welcome the Israeli aggression. We welcome the battle we have long awaited. The peak hour has come. The battle has come in which we shall destroy Israel." - Cairo Radio
May 18th 1967
“The Zionist barrack in Palestine is about to collapse and be destroyed. Every one of the hundred million Arabs has been living for the past nineteen years on one hope – to live to see the day Israel is liquidated…There is no life, no peace nor hope for the gangs of Zionism to remain in the occupied land.”
“As of today, there no longer exists an international emergency force to protect Israel….The sole method we shall apply against Israel is a total war which will result in the extermination of Zionist existence”. - Cairo Radio’s Voice of the Arabs broadcast
“Egypt has decided to terminate the presence of the United Nations Emergency Force from the territory of the United Arab Republic and Gaza Strip. Therefore I request that the necessary steps be taken for the withdrawal of the Force as soon as possible.” - Egyptian ambassador Kony informs U Thant - U.N. A/6730/Add.3 26th June 1967
“Irrespective of the reasons for the actions you have taken, in all frankness, may I advise you that I have serious misgivings about it for…I believe that this Force has been an important factor in maintaining the relative quiet in the area of its deployment during the past ten years and that its withdrawal may have grave implications for peace.” - UN Secretary General U Thant cables Cairo advising that UNEF would be withdrawn.
“The presence of the Emergency Forces in the Sinai desert had kept tensions down. We don’t have to look further for a United Nations success. Yet the Government of the United Arab Republic has made a formal request for the withdrawal of UNEF from its territory as soon as possible.
It really makes a mockery of the peacekeeping work of the United Nations if, as soon as the tension rises, the United Nations force it told to leave. Indeed the collapse of UNEF might well have repercussions on other United Nations peacekeeping forces, and the credibility of the United Nations in this field are thrown into question.” - George Brown (British Foreign Secretary), speaking at United Nations Association annual dinner in London [21]]
…”UNEF was established with the full concurrence of the United Nations…any decision to withdraw the force should be taken in the United Nations after full consultation with all the countries involved – it should not be taken as the result of some unilateral decision.” - George Brown (British Foreign Secretary), speaking at United Nations Association annual dinner in London [21]
"You are correct, Mr. President, in stating that we are having our patience tried to the limits. There have been 15 attempts at murder and sabotage in the past six weeks. We have not reacted. This in itself proves that there is no lack of temperance and responsibility on our part. On the other hand, the problem is not solved indefinitely by inaction. We cannot always rely on the stroke of fortune which has so far prevented the terrorist acts from taking the toll of life and injury intended by the perpetrators. - extract from telegram from Eshkol to Pres. LB Johnson.
May 20th 1967
“Our forces are now entirely ready not only to repulse any aggression, but to initiate the act ourselves, and to explode the Zionist presence in the Arab homeland of Palestine. The Syrian army, with its finger on the trigger, is united. I believe that the time has come to begin a battle of anihilation.”- Syria’s Defence Minister Hafez Assad (later to be Syria’s President).
May 28th 1967 “The existence of Israel is in itself an aggression…what happened in 1948 was an aggression – an aggression against the Palestinian people.
…(the crisis had developed because) “Eshkol threatened to march on Damascus, occupy Syria and overthrow the Syrian regime. It was our duty to come to the aid of our Arab brother. It was our duty to ask for the withdrawal of UNEF. When UNEF went, we had to go to the Gulf of Aqaba and restore things to what they were when we were in Aqaba in 1956” - Gamel Abdel Nasser at a press conference for several hundred of the World’s press. [9]
“We will not accept any…coexistence with Israel.…Today the issue is not the establishment of peace between the Arab states and Israel….The war with Israel is in effect since 1948”. - Gamel Abdel Nasser press conference
Hey Stevie - Read this, you must have missed it the first time. “I do not think Nasser wanted war.
The two divisions he sent to The Sinai would not have been sufficient to launch
an offensive war. He knew it and we knew it.” Yitzhak Rabin, Israel’s Chief
of Staff in 1967, in Le Monde, 2/28/68
You can write all the bs you want, but the fact is Israel knew the Egytians were not going to attack. Hate filled retoric is not a reason to initiate a war. Israel initiated the war, but claimed for years they were the ones who were first attacked, which was a massive lie, no matter how you cut it. End of story.
“The former Commander of the Air
Force, General Ezer Weitzman, regarded as a hawk, stated that there was ‘no
threat of destruction’ but that the attack on Egypt, Jordan and Syria was
nevertheless justified so that Israel could ‘exist according the scale, spirit,
and quality she now embodies.’...
Can you comprehend the words above, where he gives his justification? If not, give us your interpetation.
Actually Tammy, Israel fired first in '67. They claimed it was pre-emptive, which may have been true, but the ones that shoot first are the ones that start the war.
Israel won the land in war fair and square.
SuperSkunk,
or SuperSophist(?)
Wars are started by instigation, casus beli.
So if that is the case Ixor, are you saying that 9/11 was casus beli, since the 9/11 Commission stated in their report that our governments foreign policy and occupation of muslim lands was a major factor in the terrible acts committed on 9/11 ?
Just because one side instigates or does something terrible to another, doesn't make another side justified to attack.
"An eye for an eye, only ends up making the whole world blind." - Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
To those who blame Israel for the 1967 war, answer this question. If hostiles were to surround you and point a gun to your head, would you wait until they fire before you fire back?
I don't blame Israel for the 6 Day War, both sides were wrong, as is usually the case in war these days. But they did fire first.
Answer this question, why is it okay, acceptable, and conveniently forgotten that Israel won their independence and jewish state by committing terrorist acts against Britain, but not for the Palestinians ?
Again, both sides are wrong, but the blind support for Israel and the quick condemnation of the Palestinians is all too common and convenient.
Superskunk,
I can answer your question: "why is it okay, acceptable, and conveniently forgotten that Israel won their independence and jewish state by committing terrorist acts against Britain, but not for the Palestinians ?"
Because Jews were fighting for survival, they were being exterminated, but Palestinians are fighting for prejudice, no one will exterminate them if they don't fight, they will just have to live next to Jews, that's all.
So, why did Nasser kick out UN peacekeeping troops?
May 26th 1967
"Taking over Sharm el Sheikh meant confrontation with Israel (and) also meant that we were ready to enter a general war with Israel. The battle will be a general one and our basic objective will be to destroy Israel” - Gamal Abdel Nasser speech to the General Council of the International Confederation of Arab Trade Unions
Eli100,
The 'extermination' ended 3 years before the end of the British Mandate. The jewish terrorism against the British and arabs in the mandate expanded greatly during this time. It was not about survival, It was about taking the land. For palistinians it is also about the land.
Every war is about resources and/or religious lunacy and will be in the future.
ED,
The land became the matter of survival. Holocaust convinced Jews that they will never be safe unless they have a country of their own, that's why they continued fleeing from Europe when WWI was over and found it necessary to fight for the right to stay in Holy Land. Within a year, Joseph Vissarionovich Stalin proved that they were right.
The "Unholy Swine" Hussein going to Israel to complain about Jewish people living in the land that The One True Living God YAHWEH Promised them, while his home in Illinois was purchased through a corrupt felon in an illegal real estate deal. Who's right to live where they do is more legit? The only one who should be doing the vacating is Hussein. May his Days be Shortened and his presidency End SOON! May GOD Bless Israel and All HIS Jewish People and let HIS Enemies, Like Hussein, Be Scattered and if Necessary DESTROYED.
And you, Alan, are a traitor to your country. For anti-American religious zealots like you, we should reprise the Alien and Sedition Laws. Why don't you emigrate to Israel? You would feel right at home with your fellow bible-thumping bigots!
Eric..blow it out your whatever. Why don't YOU emigrate to Palestine??? You seem to be pretty good at cowardly acts of ignorance. Maybe they could fit you for your very own "Suicide Vest"....
Eric, you don't sound very moderate. Moderates certainly believe in international law and honor the legal agreements we have made as a nation - including the Geneva convention.
And as a moderate you think "suicide vest" is an accurate portrayal of the whole Palestinian people. Perhaps you aren't as moderate as you think but instead a hateful person who believes such propaganda.
If I were Barrack Obama, I would not be going to Israel. The Zionists people there are too unstable.
A false flag attack, blaming Palestinians, could be arranged by the Mossad. It would be similar in style to the Sirhan Sirhan assassination of Bobby Kennedy.
They are completely nuts. Imagine, thinking God gave them the land, when they stole it. You can bet there were payoffs to the people in the UN and Harry Truman in order to OK a Jewish state. That Jewish state was in the planning stages since the 1890s.
In existence for 3,000 years.
Eric,
How is he a traitor? Speaking against Obama is not treason. It may be the most patriotic action I have seen in here.
God told me that all the gold in the federal reserve is mine. (just as believeable as giving land)
Money is yours when you earn it, so is the land.
Jews earned that land by working, paying and fighting for it.
at least they use the land to build homes not blow them up . i say we bring all the mexicans here then we put the israelis in mexico
No thanks Tom, I would much rather have mexicans on our border than Israelis. The next thing they would do is start taking pieces of Texas and New Mexico. The greed never stops. They have been taking our taxpayer money, each and every year, for the past 35 years. Check out these figures:
Israel's economy is
thriving in a global economic meltdown. The Jewish state's 2009-12 economic
growth of 14.7 percent leads all the advanced countries of the world, followed
by Australia with 10.7; Canada 4.8; United States 3.2; Germany 2.7; France 0.3;
European Union minus 1.5 percent.
Why do the Republicans propose cuts to our needy, while giving these parasites billions in aid they do not need.
I have answered your question on why US is helping Israel about a hundred times: technology, intelligence and the money itself comes back here in spending and creating jobs.
And yet, you are perfectly at peace with even more tax money going to Egypt, Pakistan and other Muslims states. Love the irony.
And don't get too relaxed about somebody "taking pieces of Texas and New Mexico", those were once taken from Mexicans, they just might want it back one day.
Hey Ralph because A lot of Republicants and Democraps are Jewish?? If you want something done you go and do it yourself and 'bam' you have a congress full of Jews giving their support to a foreign nation. Get the Jews out of politics and the money stops, but they are everywhere they need to be to support their Zionist Extremist effort. Bringing down nations, exaggerating the Holocaust, labeling those who question their motives anti-Semites!! Its a one way street down and open desert. We are being manipulated on such a massive scale it is hard to comprehend anymore. The next step is to disarm the people of the US and this can't happen or the whole world will fall to one rule, to a new world order, and it won't be good at all!!!! Freedom will be a memory and us sheeple or goyim matter of fact will be slaves once again.
thats not true they are in a tough spot
God's chosen people.....whose god?.....jejejejejejeje
There's a big difference between chosen and singled out...
Israel could possibly be considered the U.S.'s best friend in the Mideast, but does that excuse the Nazi and Stalinist Soviet tactics the Jews are using against the native Palestinian Arabs? The U.S. used similar tactics against Native Americans (Sioux, Cherokee, Comanche, et.al.). Does that make it any less repugnant or more "moral"?
Thank you! I just don't get why the Jews don't want to man up and admit they are power hungry and stumping on a weaker being makes them feel powerful. Of course, without the U.S., they would be nothing....
Israel took that land in warfare. It is theirs.
There are no "native Americans" unless you count ALL of us who are born here, both recent immigrant and Indians. Indians are just earlier immigrants from Siberia. If they are "native", so are we.
The Indians lost in warfare. This happened all of the time in history. Superior, more powerful cultures conquered others. It is neither good nor bad; it is merely the truth.
The Stalinist regime was 95% jewish and Stalin was 1/2 jewish. Hitler was seeking revenge on the Jews from when they invaded Germany he knew the Jews were pulling the strings just like they are now in the US. Putin isn't falling for it again and neither is China hence that interesting alliance. Did you know Karl Marx was a jew too?? Go figure Communism actually created by a Jewish man whom envied the wealth of others...what hypocrisy.
You are correct, Karl Marx was of Judaism faith hence a Jew.
Jews, time out of mind, have longed for a homeland. But if after sixty- odd years the neighbors remain intractable...Just come to the U.S. already, and help us get the damn economy back on track.
Pseudo-Intellect,
Karl Marx was of Jewish ancestry, but not of Jewish faith. He converted to Christianity, because at that time only good Christians were allowed to enroll into Universities in Europe (his family shunned him for that), then he abandoned religion all together and became an Atheist, which was the very core of Marxism.
Your knowledge of socialism is even worse that of your skin-head friend Jedi, who is actually stupid enough to claim that Stalin was Jewish.
For you information, Stalin was 100% Georgian (and don't confuse the country of Georgia with the American state of Georgia) and he hated Jews, mostly because his archival to power Trotskiy was Jewish.
Indeed, there were plenty of Jews among Bolsheviks (reaction to pogroms and forced re-locations under Tzar), but when Stalin won the power and Trotskiy got his skull bashed in with an ice-peck, most of those Jews ended up in gulags.
You kids should learn to do your homework before you try to show of your tiny intellect.
Why doesn't 0bama stay here in the Uninted States and work on BALANCING THE BUDGET?
Because he doesn't know how. he still believes he can spend his way to solvency, So he borrows more money, raises the debt thereby devaluing the dollar, hence the cost of gas goes up causing everything else to go up with it. Its a vicious circle , But then to cover his butt he states " those greedy, oil company's, speculators, price of crude, republicans. ..( pick your weekly favorite ). Then simply gets the media press to offer a continuous barrage of diversionary article's. ( do you really believe all the gun B,S, is anything but a diversion?)
and the sheeple still bleat away and sing his praises. Frankly that makes him a great con man and guess who it makes look dumber then a sack of wet rocks........?
DT7970
If only Obama could get a refund of all our tax $ from Netanyahu during this trip. That would help towards a balanced budget, huh?
Indeed, but the Jewish lobby are on his behind because he didn't show up in the first 4 years. I don't blame him, their PM is a warmonger, genocidal, wing-nut. It is just a small olive branch from the President to shut the Jewish lobby in Washington.
I see some people are frustrated that Jews get to vote in USA.
Tough break guys, you live in a country where people of all religions and nationalities have equal rights.
May be you should move to Iran where majority shares your attitude toward "Jewish lobby".
Eli100, it is not about Jews voting in the USA, but those who have Israeli citizenship and US citizenship that vote in both countries. American Jews who go off and join the Israeli Army, become citizens of that country and return to the US maintaining both citizenships. This would not fair well for any other US citizen if they went to Australia, joined their Army for citizenship and then came back to the US. They would no longer be US citizens so I ask you, why the special treatment of these US born Jews that become Israeli citizens only to return to live in the US maintaining both citizenships? Seems like the Jews get special treatment in this instance. Please explain and cite US law that mandates them being coddled by the USA when others must denounce their US citizenship if they joined another country's military and received that country's citizenship? Sounds like a double standard to me or something more, perhaps?
First, would you please state a law that forbids double-citizenship or serving in any other army.
I never heard of anyone being stripped of American citizenship for serving in the army of an ally-state like Australia, or Britain or France. If there were laws like that, I would oppose them.
When two countries share the same political values, ethical standards and have the same enemies, there should be nothing wrong with a one being citizen of both countries and being equally ready to fight for either one of them.
Read and weep Eli100:
The 1940 Nationality Act
Section 401 (e) of the 1940 Nationality Act provides that a U.S. citizen,
whether by birth or naturalization, "shall lose his [U.S.] nationality
by...voting in a political election in a foreign state."
This law was tested many times. In 1958, for instance, an American citizen
named Perez voted in a Mexican election. The case went to the Supreme
Court, where the majority opinion held that Perez must lose his American
nationality. The court said Congress could provide for expatriation as a
reasonable way of preventing embarrassment to the United States in its foreign
relations.
But then something very odd happened.
In 1967 an American Jew, Beys Afroyim received an exemption that set a
precedent exclusively for American Jews. Afroyim, born in Poland in 1895,
emigrated to America in 1912, and became a naturalized U.S. citizen in 1926. In
1950, aged 55, he emigrated to Israel and became an Israeli citizen. In 1951
Afroyim voted in an Israeli Knesset election and in five political elections
that followed. So, by all standards he lost his American citizenship -- right?
Wrong.
After living in Israel for a decade, Afroyim wished to return to New York. In
1960, he asked the U.S. Consulate in Haifa for an American passport. The
Department of State refused the application, invoking section 401 (e) of the
Nationality Act -- the same ruling that had stripped the American citizen named
Perez of his U.S. citizenship.
Attorneys acting for Afroyim took his case to a Washington, DC District
Court, which upheld the law. Then his attorneys appealed to the Court of
Appeals. This court also upheld the law. The attorneys for Afroyim then moved
the case on to the Supreme Court. Here, with Supreme Court Justice Abe Fortas,
Lyndon Johnson's former attorney and one of the most powerful Jewish Americans,
casting the swing vote, the court voted five to four in favor of Afroyim. The
court held that the U.S. government had no right to "rob" Afroyim of his
American citizenship!
So it seems on the Jewish religion Israelis are coddled by a favored vote by the SCOTUS. The list goes on and on of dual Israeli/US citizenship holders in the Federal Government. So it seems Jews are exempt by a special coddling law.
If that law was ever effective, it is not today.
Myself and many of my friends and neighbors have dual American-Russian citizenship. None of us are stripped of our American citizenship for that. Plenty of American citizens voted in Russian election, none of them lost their American citizenship for that.
It's not uncommon for laws to be challenged in court and changed. Sounds like that Afroyim fellow practiced the right that any American citizen and succeeded. I see no reason to weep, I see a reason to be proud as a Jew and as an American.
Do you have any examples of people loosing american citizenship for voting somewhere else in 70s or later?
The Law is the Law, but SCOTUS lawyers protect their own.
Well, any group that feels like this law is unfair to them is welcome to hire some lawyers of their own and protect themselves. It's their right as Americans.
well i know one thing, they are Lot smarter than some Americans, at least they see the the enemy coming to their land, i think it's time we leave the good people alone in this world, seems to me they to do not trust our president, don't blame them after he just gave Egypt f-16's and tanks. the people of America I believe are also having second thought's of why they voted him back in office, sure hasn't done anything to make me happy. taking away my right to bear arms is one of them, how much farther will he take or the idiots of America give him from our Constitution. now we need to fight for out rights instead of him standing behind them like he took the oath. tyrany!!!!! and Isreal see right through him.
BS - You unpatriotic sore losers that continue to bash our President are nuts. Israel wasn't there 62 years ago and how can you say "their" land. It belonged to someone else. Take a look at the old maps instead of assuming things. If Israelis are so smart, why do they take $3 billion of our dollars annually? They're a first world country and our #1 foreign aid recipient. Egypt is the heart of the arab world and the U.S. needs them to keep the peace. That's how it's worked and they're our #2 foreign aid recipient but we do get something from them but what do we get from Israel other than words of solidarity, ally or friends. Some friends that take our money and give us nothing. You can call your fellow Americans ignorant because they don't agree with your shallow thoughts. You "believe" Americans are having second thoughts.....What news reports and polls are you watching. Pay attention. 20+ dead American children in CT is a priority for the majority in this country that don't agree with automatic weapons and magazines. Those ranting about their 2nd amendment rights don't listen to the debates. Our children outweigh automatic weapons and magazines. Fight for our children and future of our country and not for your stupid automatic weapons. On the contrary, the WORLD see through Israel. It's time we do too.
They don't want to take your guns.
B.S. gramps. since when hasn't ANY rule regulation etc., ...( Regardless of weatheror not it works) ....not been followed by more and tighter regs? In case you never looked there are thousands of laws on the books already. ...posing the simple question, ..."if gun laws work why do they need more"...
Because the gun laws they have now have been watered down by the NRA lobby. Background checks are what most Americans want. Why do you object to them? It is not BS, no one who counts wants to take your guns.
A falsehood.
Straight from the Mouth of a U.S. Government Attorney
The U.S. government argues in federal court (U.S. v. Emerson information page) that there is absolutely no right of an individual to own firearms!
"If I could have banned them all - 'Mr. and Mrs. America turn in your guns' - I would have!"
- Diane Feinstein
"My view of guns is simple. I hate guns and I cannot imagine why anyone would want to own one. If I had my way, guns for sport would be registered, and all other guns would be banned."
- Deborah Prothrow-Stith (Dean of Harvard School of Public Health)
"I don't care if you want to hunt, I don't care if you think it's your right. I say 'Sorry.' it's 1999. We have had enough as a nation. You are not allowed to own a gun, and if you do own a gun I think you should go to prison."
- Rosie O'Donnell (At about the time she said this, Rosie engaged the services of a bodyguard who applied for a gun permit.)
"Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country."
- Mayor Marion Barry, Washington, DC
Hey Michael, the reason we gave Egypt tanks and F16s, was so they would continue to be nice to Israel. A recent vote to end military aid to Egypt was defeated by the parties, whose reasoning was the end of the aid to Egypt would harm Israel.
Aid to Egypt is another cost of our idiotic one way friendship with the parasites in Israel. Egypt helps guard the southern border of Israel, insuring the Palestinians get no arms with which to defend themselves.
Israel is an abomination on the world community, because of it's leadership.
While I think the folks that blame this or that on Obama, Democrats, Republicans, etc. are completely ridiculous and just plain wrong, it doesn't make the unpatriotic.
"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism." - Howard Zinn
Speaking against the sad joke that is Obama is not treason. It is our right to do so and is guaranteed by the Constitution and Bill of Rights. It is called freedom of speech.
It is as patriotic as anything I have seen in here.
Steven B.......
United States v. Emerson (5th Cir. 2001) involved a challenge to the Constitutionality of 18 U.S.C. § 922(g)(8)(C)(ii), a federal statute which prohibited the transportation of firearms or ammunition in interstate commerce by persons subject to a court order that, by its explicit terms, prohibits the use of physical force against an intimate partner or child.
In 2002, the Fifth Circuit determined the 2nd Amendment does guarantee individuals the right to keep and bear arms. However, the court decided that the particular law at issue DID NOT violate the Constitution.
Then, in 2002, the 9th Circuit disagreed (in Silveira v. Lockyer) with United States v. Emerson and (in 2008) the SCOTUS (in D.C. v Heller) ruled for an expansive "individual right to keep and bear arms".
In 2009, the 9th Circuit, further expanded the SCOTUS (Silveira v. Lockyer) decision going so far as to say, "the right to bear arms is a protection against the possibility that even our own government could degenerate into tyranny, and though this may seem unlikely, this possibility should be guarded against with individual diligence. And while the Second Amendment thus stands as a protection against both external threat and internal tyranny, the recognition of the individual’s right in the Second Amendment, and its incorporation by the Due Process Clause against the states, is not inconsistent with the reasonable regulation of weaponry."
BUT, in 2009, the 9th Circuit set that panel's decision aside and ordered a rehearing of Nordyke v. King.
KEEP IN MIND, the administration DEFENDING the law "infringing" upon perceived 2nd Amendment rights in United States v. Emerson was Republican ( Bush / Cheney ).
There is no (serious scholarly) doubt that the 2nd Amendment DOES NOT confer UNLIMITED right for U.S. citizens to "keep and bear" all manner of military weaponry. Those limitations have already been recognized and there is no serious effort (even among the right wing of the Republican party) to undo laws forbidding private ownership of RPG's, surface to air missiles, artillery, and etc..
Still, there are some (among ( mostly ) the far left) who do argue for weapons laws similar to those found in the U.K. and other liberal western democracies.
But, to argue that such a position is even close to gaining ascendancy (in the U.S.) is fraudulent and/or naive. Such an argument is akin to those who argue that our government has plans to surgically implant electronic identifiers in all its citizens.
I wonder why so many american jews voted for Obama when he is the most hostile president to israel in the modern era
Lookup AIPAC lobbyiests and you'll quickly find out. Our #1 foreign aid recipient is another first world country ......guess? Yes, Israel. They give us nothing but take our $3 billion annually. This doesn't include all the Jewish groups and individuals sending money there. Our President is not hositle, he's diplomatic and when the UN and the world is against these illegal settlements, the biggest ally (the U.S.) has to take a stand. Hopefully, this will make some understand the truths about this unbalanced relationship that we all pay for as we struggle to pay for our medicines, co-payments, mortgages, student loans, high price of food and gasoline.....Israel wants that $3 billion yearly and we don't count.
Someday all you ignorant posters will realize that being Jewish doesn't automatically compel one to endorse Israel's fascist, paranoid policies.
That's as ridiculous as saying that all African- Americans should endorse Idi Amin or Robert Mugabe, or that Latinos should support Castro and Chavez.
hey angryamerican55
"I wonder why so many american jews voted for Obama when he is the most hostile president to israel in the modern era"
Because not all Jews are Zionists nor believe illegal land grabbing to be the work of God.
3.5 BN in aide a year!
President Obama is not hostile to Israel.
And how much did Obama just send to the Muslim Brotherhood?
Excellent point and post Eric. Ask Noam Chomsky what he thinks about Israel.
Being Jewish does compel us to support Israel's fight for existence, because without it we won't feel safe anywhere in the world.
For 2000 years we have been people without country of our own, and for 2000 years the rest of you have been oppressing us, forcing us to convert or just exterminating us.
Well, now we have a country of our own, that represents interests of our nation and that causes some (although not all) governments around the world to make sure that the Jewish population in their countries is not mistreated.
So, you guys can make up all sorts of idiotic accusations against Israel, but that wont help you. We are not second class any more, we have the same right to vote as you do, build businesses just as freely as you do, those of us who got successful enough have just as much right to run for government as any successful ones among yourselves. Consequently, we also have just as much say in whom the country we live in considers an ally as you do.
You all will just have to accept that Jew-hunting is no longer a safe sport. You will have to find something else to do on your spare time.
Eli100,
The time code of your posts suggest that you are residing several time zones east of EST, not in America as you pretend.
I reside in Washington State, Seattle. It's 7:15 pm here as I type this. Feel free to check that against the time-code.
I am surprised at the uneducated, ignorant, hateful people out there. Israel is a small country surrounded by enemies that would surely cut their throats if they got the chance. The UN (a worthless organization, that also wants to destroy America) never should have made palestin a state. On post 2.3 if we were an ocuppying nation (like Russia) we could have occupied those countries you mentioned and we did occupy Berlin (you need to educate yourself boy). That has happened many times after a war for countries to claim territories to expand their boundries Israel (at least for now, until obama ruins it) is our only friend in that region, do you want to see destroyed also. Prime Minister Netanyaha is a hundred times a better leader that we have in obama and he is doing what is best for his country. I believe what gets under your crawl, for the most you, is you think of the Jewish people being rich and you envy that.
If you love the Israel PM so much and feel he's such a great leader, don't let the door hit you on the way out. The Israeli people are rich because of our annual $3 billion and American Jews sending money there. It's not hard to pump up a small country with a lot of money. That's not envy, it's unbalanced when our own people are going without so that our government can give our $3 billion to Israel yearly. CNN's report called God's Warriors videos 3&4 is available on youtube and also The Gatekeepers documentary can be downloaded. This documentary was done by Israeli producer, Dror Moreh. Argue with him and the most 6 powerful men in Israel that he interviewed. When someone doesn't agree with you, it's juvenile to call them ignorant and hateful. That's why there are wars.
Armysf,
And you have the audacity to call others ignorant ? I would advise you to stop watching Fox News for a while and at least get a world map and learn where Israel is and the history of the region. You sound very uninformed and misinformed.
I am surprised at your uneducated, ignorant post.
Israel is about the size of Massachusetts, with a population close to 8 million.
The entire Gaza Strip is about the size of Philadelphia, with a population slightly over 1.6 million.
Even if you include the West Bank, you are still talking about 4 million people in a space the size of Delaware, with nowhere near the military power, technology, or capability of Israel. Not to mention Israel illegally has 100-200 nuclear weapons, when the Palestinians have none.
3 bi in aid are petty pennies compared to what's spent on the aid to people here in USA, and certainly not enough to bankrupt USA, especially if it all comes back to USA in form of purchasing creating jobs here, so fewer of our own people would need aid.
However, Pakistan, Egypt, Gaza and West Bank all get American aid and none of that money is spent in USA, but you guys are perfectly at peace with that. That is caller hypocrisy.
Israel gets a total of 20 billion from the US not 3 billion. Israeli American citizens do not pay one dime in American taxes, they are exempt. The Jerusalem Post newspaper pleaded with hundreds of thousands of them to at least file their taxes because they are exempt but must file. After we invaded Iraq, the American tax payers paid to have an oil pipeline built from northern Iraq to Israel, now they get free oil. Want to know more about Israel read " IF AMERICANS ONLY KNEW" you'll find out the truth. STOP these war mongers now!!!!!.
What do these Israelis have on our government to be coddled and exempt from filing taxes? I say send all of these Israeli citizens with US citizenships back to Israel to live their lives out. I suspect they are here working and sending US dollars back home just like the Irish in the US used to do until Britain raised cain about supporting terrorism with US dollars. Does this not seem what could be happening with these US squatters?
Dream on Intellect (it's amazing how ironic some screen names get),
The days when all the Jews could be leaded into the cattle-carts and send them somewhere out of your way are long over. Your side lost the war and you have to live with that.
Ask parker to loan you whatever he is smocking, may be a trip to the Lala-Land will make you feel better.
To Intellect- Donations to Israel by Jewish millionaires and billionaires are tax deductible in America to those making the donations. No other people in America have that opportunity to support the country of their ancestry.
I am of Scottish heritage. My father was born there. If I sent money to Scotland and tried to take a tax deduction, they would lock me up. If Michael Madoff sent a few billion to Israel, which he probably did, he got a huge tax write off, thus depriving the US of tax dollars, of which most people are unaware.
The Jews in our Congress write these bills to get laws passed which will benefit Israel whenever they have an opportunity. When they aren't after money, they are spend their time getting the US to attack their perceived enemies. Iran is next on their docket. It is all rigged for Israel.
If there any worthy charities in Scotland that are not tax-deductible, you should start campaigning to change that and find some influential Americans of Scottish ancestry to back you up.
Or do you expect us to believe that all Scottish-Americans are completely broke, or that they are banned from politics?
Superskunk,
Technically, Israel's 400+ nukes are not illegal. They never signed the Nuclear non proliferation treaty. The legality of the transfer of nuclear tech from America to Israel is more problematic.
Bush Senior was the only American President to tell Israel that if they didn't stop building settlements, they'd forfeit their annual $3 billion from the U.S. The AIPAC (Jewish lobbyists) put so much pressure on him, he had to give in. Don't believe me? Go to youtube and look up God's Warriors videos 3&4. CNN did this wonderful exposé and when Israel was asked what did the U.S. get back for their annual $3 billion as the #1 foreign aid recipient, they had no response. So, I;d say to our President, "Cut them off". They didn't offer their doctors during Katrina, they didn't offer their help during Sandy or during our drought this past Summer. Yet, they want our money and use us for protection making us a target. The UN and the world disagrees with these illegal settlements and we must too. The antisemitic card is tired so don't even throw it.
Would you be in favor of also cutting aid to Pakistan, Egypt and Palestinians?
Did any of those help during Katrina or Sandy? Have any of them done something illegal in our book?
Are you using technology invented in any of those countries the way you use the cell-phones, twitters ad printer invented in Israel?
Do any of them spent their aid money in USA the way Israel does?
Of cause, none of them are Jewish states, but right "antisemitism" has nothing to do with that.
Bush did alot to satisfy his Salafist Saudi Masters.
Eli100,
Those countries you mentioned are not 1st world economies like Israel. Canada helped with Katrina and Sandy, and everytime there are lots of power lines down.
If Canada ever needs help from USA, I am sure USA will be happy to help. I'll be in full support of that.
Mr. Ray is a poor reporter and not a stickler for the truth, it seems. There are 360,000 in the West Bank EXCLUSIVE of East Jerusalem, not including East Jerusalem. There are another 250,000 Jews in East Jerusalem - so, there are over 600,000 Jews living in the land that the Arabs, and Mr. Ray apparently, want to ethnically cleanse of Jews. Calling East Jerusalem "Arab East Jerusalem", as Mr. Ray does, is prejudicial and inaccurate as, again, 260,000 Jews live there. It was only Jew-free right after 1948, when the Jordanian Legion killed or expelled all the Jews living there. Citing the "minarets" of East Jerusalem, and calling the Jewish homes of the Jerusalem suburb of Maalah Adumim "anonymous looking" is also, obviously prejudicial. This was poor reporting, with an agenda, and an obvious hatchet job.
Watch the Gatekeepers and then go argue with Israeli Dror Moreh and the 6 most powerful men of Israel from the Shin Bet. Distorting history and attacking someone's reporting because they disagree with "your opinion" and slanted understanding is classless.
Think Wise - are you one of the anti Semitics who try to change history by denying the holocaust? Is that the distortion you are talking about? And just because it is NBC reporter makes their accusations suspicious. Experts at hiding and distorting the truths (e.g. George Zimmerman video editing?) They don't report the daily assaults on Israeli citizens, but every time an Israeli kicks dirt in the Palestinian's direction it become big news to MSM
It's easy to accuse someone of being anti-Semitic when arguing these issues, regardless if a post contains nothing of the sort.
Dan In Madison, it's not ethnic cleansing to ask Israeli's who have illegally settled OUTSIDE of Israel, AGAINST international law and international support, to leave that area. Notice I didn't say jews, because guess what, not all Israeli's are jewish believe it or not, just like not all Iranians are muslim.
Except that the settlements are not outside of Israel.
They are on the territory that Israel won in a defensive war from Jordan (not Palestinians).
Israel allowed Palestinians to stay on that land and build their own state, but instead of building a sate Palestinians started waging a war on Israel of their own.
In a war ground can be gained or lost, so Palestinians lost some of the land (which ironically Israel gave them in the first place), and then pretended not to notice.
Israel has every right to keep that land.
As for international law, it will be worth the paper it's written on the day it's applied to everyone equally. Israel is the only country to ever return the land they won in a war, and they are the only country of who UN demands it currently. That kind of law is only good for toilet paper.
SS
What other country should be mandated to tell where certain citizens should go live? In Israel Jews are citizens. Anywhere else they are merely tolerated at times at best. you are right other groups than Jews.
Think Wise,
Surely you have enough smarts to know Dan was not offering an opinion to back his claim that the author had an anti=israeli agenda by omitting key mitigating factors that are part of the historical record. Yet you deployed your "wisdom" to other ends. Sophistry? Distortion indeed!
After the San Remo Conference The Mandate for Palestine ratified by the League of Nations, upheld by the UN Charter allows for Jewish Free Settlement in Palestine including Judea and Samaria. Later resolutions simply contradict the mandates upheld by its own charter. Lucky for the sophists. Imagine that: Jews living in Jewdea as they do in Israel alongside their semetic brothers that unfortunately want them out and/or dead.
You two are on the side of the folks that want the Jews out and/or dead. Are you really sure thats the side of the fence you really want to be on?
Ixor, are you aware of what country has the second largest jewish population ? That's right the jew hating Iran, with over 25,000. Yet I never seem to hear about any violence towards them, whether it be civilians or the Iranian government.
Ixor, I made the mistake of assuming that you were more intelligent than making assumptions about someone you know nothing about, but I guess I was wrong.
My point of view is objective, that both sides are wrong, and both sides kill civilians. From what I can tell yours is subjective, and you blindly support Israel without looking at it objectively.
I would like to see the Israeli occupation of The West Bank to end, but I don't want anyone dead and I never suggested that Israeli's leave the nation of Israel. Just as I wish my government would leave the lands their occupying, and end colonialism, imperialism, and the terrorism on all sides.
I want peace, plain and simple.
Superskunk,
You don't hear about violence toward Jews in Iran and that proves beyond a shadow of the doubt that it never happens, right?
Also, can you tell me exactly how many Jews are there in the government of Iran, that would be very interesting.
Also, your might want to know that in the Knesset of the evil Arab-oppressing Israel there are 13 Arabs (out of 120 total members), that's just so you could compare two sides and think if it's fare to say that both are equally wrong.
No Eli, that doesn't prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that it doesn't happen. But I'm sure we would hear something of the sort here in America, since we're conditioned to believe that Iran is the new bogeyman we're supposed to hate. We certainly heard all about the petty thiefs that were hanged for their crimes, the propaganda media machine would have a field day reporting about violence towards jews in Iran.
I can't give you an exact number, but there slightly over 25,000 jews in Iran.
Where in any of my posts did I say that Israel tries to oppress Arabs or muslims ? There is a significant muslim population is Israel. It is apparent that there is an anti-muslim agenda rooted in the Israeli government, but the Israeli people as a whole don't have those sentiments. The majority of the Israeli people want peace and favor a two state solution according to polls out of Israel, which explains why the Israeli government tries to appease the people with muslim members in the Knesset. But if you do the math, the muslim population isn't properly represented. There's just short of 8 million citizens in Israel, of which close to 1.6 million are muslim, a little over 20%. Why do they only have a 11% representation in the Knesset ?
I don't condemn Israel as a whole, or her people for what their government does, I blame their government. Most Israeli's are just like the rest of the world, good people that just want to live in peace that allow themselves to be controlled and ruled by a corrupt oppressive government. It's the same here, I love my country and her people, but I despise what our government has become.
Superskunk, the same was true of the former USSR. The people of the USSR loved mother Russia and are good people. But yet their government and its type were listed as the bogeyman for over 5 decades. I was a student of Solzhenitsyn and Yevtushenko while an undergraduate student. Both men were poets and soldiers for their country. One was jailed in the Gulag and the other remained a Russian soldier. What both men shared was the love of their country while one left the other stayed in the former USSR. Both men condemned their government one openly through voice and the other internally.
What I am driving at both men loved their country, were good men along with the majority of the citizens of the USSR. It was the government that committed crimes and crimes are not reserved for types of governments, e.g., socialism, democracy, etc., but any government can be corrupt and not serve her people but those who are at the helm. We had a former administration as an example that served those who were at the helm and of course this was not the first time our leaders have steered off course. Israel is no exception to the rule. I for one cannot accept the assassinations committed in the name of their government nor spying against their supposed allies, the USA, nor US citizens such as Pollard and others, who decided their true allegiance was with Israel and not the country they lived in and worked for with top secret clearances.
Therein lies a major fault with permitting Israeli citizens to hold US citizenship too. We foolishly put ourselves in peril for some damned reason allowing this to continue to this day. Do we give dual citizenship to Cuban refugees? Make these Israelis make a choice of allegiance. Israel has committed acts of war against the US but yet we still coddle them. As for Eli100 and his rhetoric it is growing old and circular. Let him move to Israel and work in a cooperative for the State.
Superskunk,
Does anyone do math here in USA to make sure that every group is represented in the government with exact same percentage as they have in the population?
The idea of Democracy is that everyone has equal opportunities. Israeli Arabs have exact same opportunity to run for government as Jews do. If they want more representation, they can work a little harder for that, and they will get it.
Can you say the same about Jews in Iran?
Pseudo-Intellect,
For your information, I do have a dual citizenship, but not Israeli, my other citizenship is Russian, Do you have a problem with that, or is it only Israeli citizenship that you object to?
Not that it matters. I don't need your permission to live in USA. I am not the only American that supports Israel, in fact the majority of Americans support Israel. If you don't like sharing the country with supporters of Israel, feel free to move to Iran.
Eli, I find you name calling total childish actions. Grow up. As for me moving my people have been here for thousands of years. If anyone moves I suggest you head off back to the Gulag. I hear they are recruiting in Russia for the underworld over there. You might make your mark there. Shoo, go away.
Still here and will always be here, and there is nothing you can do about it.
We survived Gulags, we survived Inquisition, we survived Egyptian Pharaohs and we will certainly survive you.
Israeli Arabs do not have the same opportunity as jewish Israelis. Gerimandering is worse than in Texas.
Try to get a building permit as an Israeli Arab and you will see the difference.
Superskunk,
The country with the second largest jewish population is America 5.58 million. Israel 5.98 million.
Equal rights do not guarantee complete safety from discrimination, but they do guarantee the right to fight discrimination in court and in the government. Israeli Arabs do have and use that right.
To make up for that, they also have special privileges. For example, military service is mandatory for Jews, but voluntary for Arabs.
Bottom line, Israel says jump and US says how high ....
Think Wise,
you are right. Unfortunately, Israel takes more than 3 billion annually. For them it is an entitlement.
Wiseguy, Egypt gets as much aid as Israel. But speaking of financial gain...how about turning the UN building into condos, where it would be useful, instead of the third-world hellhole it has become. And if they want to try the Israelis for war crimes, then let them answer in the immortal words of Texas..."Come and GIT us."
Cass, I consider the money that Egypt gets as an extension of the aid that Israel gets. That is money paid to them, as a bribe to keep the treaty between them in place. So when people talk of aid the real amount is the sum of the two.
What keeps Egypt from breaking the treaty is the fact that they tried attacking Israel four times and four times they got their tails kicked.
Your world-view is backwards. Israel has defeated 7 Arab states at once without any help form USA, they don't need to be protects. If anything US gives them aid as a bribe to hold back and not go full-force on those who try to pick a fight with them.
So, when you are talking about "the sum of the two" it's wasted on Egypt rather than Israel.
Eli, Israel attacked Eygpt not the other way around. Israel called it a pre-emptive strike but don't let the truth get in the way. Your a paid troll of Israel. Israel spends 64 million a year to change public opinion on the net. You, Bart Martin, Cassandra, and Ixor Kleb are discusting liars.
"Israel called it a pre-emptive strike" because that's what it was.
They attacked an military force, which was on the way to attack Israel, which Nasser stated on the radio loud and clear, but don't let the truth get in the way.
Logic is obviously beyond your mental capability, all you can do is fill your posts with idiotic accusations and childish insults.
You should really leave debating to grownups.
Still waiting for the pre-emptive attack on Iran and missiles coming back in response to the attack. I am actually looking forward to this.
Just don't get too upset if you only see the first part.
Eli #25.6,
Fabricating the past again, then insulting when you are called out as a JDF operative. tisk tisk.
Accusing anyone who disagrees with you of being paid operative is beyond pathetic.
Suggests that you have no other argument.
The statements Nasser made on the radio that year are easy to find, just goggle it.
Best be careful there Barry, step on the wrong toes and you could lose your number one backer.....the media.
"In December, in a rare public show of unity, every member of the United Nations Security Council except the United States condemned the expansion plans. In January, U.N, human rights investigators said Israel must stop settlement expansion and remove all Jewish settlers from the occupied West Bank, saying that its practices could be subject to prosecution as possible war crimes."
The above paragraph was cut from this article. Nothing else is relevant. No explanations, no excuses, no reasoning is valid nor acceptable. This is the standard case of Cowboys versus Indians. Guess who the Indians are. The entire world knows and has witnessed. Israel is a criminal. PERIOD! !
Do we really need to question why other nations pursue the development of their own nuclear weapons ? ? Consider all of the economic sanctions in place against Iran. As the US stands by Israel, despite Israel's criminal assault upon the Palestinians, other nations (Russia) stand by Iran to soften the impact of sanctions. North Korea knows the game and is playing "hardball" ! ! China softens the economic sanctions that North Korea faces. FAIR IS FAIR IS FAIR. Israel's behavior toward the Palestinians is despicable. "CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?"
I am very glad that Israel is so independent. Sadly, they're going to need it. Israel has been boldly, and with insolence, encroaching on Palestinian land for decades. By the way, it's time that the US stop the mammoth aid package that Israel enjoys. All Israeli public suggestion of a desire for peace is a charade. What Israel desires is more land for its ever expanding settlements. PERIOD ! ! ! The world knows it, as does the US.
To be fair, there are many Israelis opposed to the settlements and incessant land grab. Unfortunately their numbers are insufficient to halt present Israeli practices. It is time for the Jewish citizens of the US to stand up for justice. You know the facts ! ! You have a voice ! ! Use it ! !
2real, the UN is NOT the entire world...and the "land grab" consisted of occupying territory that the Arabs had used as a base for attacking them three times.
and i want to go to war over a Jew tresspassing on desert land?????
God is the problem…The
concept is a threat to civilization! Faith without evidence is an unacceptable
position. With the imagined endorsement of god, we are guaranteed continued
bloodshed and hatred. In time, global communication will facilitate the death
of all religions and god will be revealed as a myth. How long are you willing
to wait for humanity to catch up to reality?
God has always been the problem and religion the root of the worst evils .....
playdablues- 300years ago there was no evidence of oxygen. Should the people not have breathed because there was no evidence? Just because you can't see or touch something, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It just means we haven't been able to find a way to see it yet.