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Subscribe to RSSThe Olympic superstar appeared in a South African court Tuesday where he explained that he had accidentally shot his girlfriend, Reeva Steenkamp, because he mistakenly suspected she was an intruder. Prosecutors, however, aren't buying it. NBC's Michelle Kosinski reports.
“Blade Runner” Oscar Pistorius said Tuesday that he had heard a noise in the bathroom and felt “a sense of terror” on the night he fatally shot his girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp, insisting he thought someone had broken into his South Africa home.
In a statement read to a court hearing, the double-amputee Olympic and Paralympic star wrote that he loved Steenkamp "deeply." He also said he had received death threats in the past and kept a firearm beside his bed.
Earlier Tuesday, Prosecutor Gerrie Nel insisted there was nothing to support Pistorius’ claim that he feared there was an intruder in the house when he killed Steenkamp. She was shot dead through the door of a small bathroom in Pistorius’ home in a suburb of Pretoria early on Valentine’s Day.
Nel said she had "nowhere" to go and her death must have been "horrific," insisting Pistorius was guilty of premeditated murder.
The NBC Olympic and "Rock Center" correspondent spent a week over the summer with Oscar Pistorius and tells NBC's David Gregory that he was a "gun guy" who was worried about his safety and security.
The claims were made at a bail hearing -- described as a “little trial” by one expert -- that is being held to determine whether Pistorius should be freed pending trial.
Magistrate Desmond Nair ruled that Pistorius would face a charge of premeditated murder, but the hearing was adjourned until Wednesday morning.
As the defense and prosecution lawyers argued, the family and friends of the slain model and law-school graduate Steenkamp held a tearful funeral in her hometown.
As his statement was read to the court, Pistorius sobbed uncontrollably at times, prompting Nair to say, "I know it's difficult. ... I'm going to find it difficult to concentrate. ... Maintain your composure."
'She died in my arms'
The statement denied "in the strongest terms" that Pistorius had deliberately killed Steenkamp, adding that the athlete was "deeply in love'' with her, according to Reuters.
"I had no intention to kill my girlfriend," the statement said.
According to Pistorius' account, he and Steenkamp had decided to "have a quiet dinner together at home" and by about 10 p.m. they had retired to his bedroom, where she was doing yoga as he was lying down and watching television. After finishing her yoga, she got into bed with him and the two fell asleep, Pistorius' statement said.
During the early morning hours, it said, Pistorius woke up and went to his bedroom balcony to bring a fan inside and close the sliding glass doors and blinds.
"I heard a noise in my bathroom. ... I felt a sense of terror. ... I believed that someone had entered my house. ... I grabbed my 9mm pistol," it said.
Pistorius' statement said contractors had been working at his house and had left ladders outside, and there were no security bars on the bathroom window. The bathroom contained a separate toilet area with its own door.
“As I did not have my prosthetic legs on I felt extremely vulnerable. I had to protect Reeva and myself. ... I felt trapped as my bedroom door was locked and I have limited mobility on my stumps,” it said.
The statement then described Pistorius hearing movement inside the bathroom. "I fired shots at the toilet door and shouted at Reeva to phone the police," it said. "She did not respond and I moved backwards out of the bathroom, keeping my eyes on the bathroom entrance. Everything was pitch dark in the bedroom and I was still too scared to switch on a light. Reeva was not responding.
"When I reached the bed, I realized that Reeva was not in bed. That is when it dawned on me that it could have been Reeva who was in the toilet."
The statement also described Pistorius trying to open the locked bathroom door but failing, then grabbing a cricket bat to smash open the door. "Reeva was slumped over but alive. I battled to get her out of the toilet and pulled her into the bathroom."
Pistorius’ statement said that moments after the shooting he “picked Reeva up as I'd been told not to wait for the paramedics. ... She died in my arms.”
Earlier in the hearing, Nel said Steenkamp had arrived in Pistorius' home sometime between 5 p.m. and 6 p.m. on the night before she died.
There was "no possible explanation to support" Pistorius' claim that he thought Steenkamp was an intruder, Nel said.
And he added that even if Steenkamp had been an intruder, the shooting would still have been the murder of a burglar.
Nel said Pistorius had armed himself, put on his prosthetic legs, walked to the bathroom and shot Steenkamp several times through the locked door as she sat on the toilet. "She locked that door for a purpose," Nel said.
"If I arm myself, walk a distance and murder a person, that is premeditated," he said, according to Reuters. "The door is closed. There is no doubt. I walk seven meters (just over 22 feet) and I kill."
"The motive is 'I want to kill.' That's it," he added. "This deceased was in a 1.4- (4.5 feet) by 1.14-meter little room. She could go nowhere. It must have been horrific."
The prosecutor also asked why a burglar would have locked himself inside the bathroom.
After the shooting, Pistorius carried Steenkamp downstairs, where he met a security guard and a friend, according to the prosecution, and told them that he had thought she had been an intruder.
Pistorius' defense argued the sports star was not guilty of murder for that reason.
The defense lawyer claimed other husbands had shot their wives thinking they were intruders and asked, "Where's the premeditation?"
Following the defense's statements, Nel said he was now "more convinced" about what happened.
Karyn Maughan, legal correspondent for South Africa news channel ENCA, told NBC's TODAY that if a premeditated murder charge stands, there would be dire consequences for Pistorius.
“If he can’t prove that her death was unintentional, then it is unlikely he will get bail and he also faces a life sentence in jail,” she said. “He must try to convince the court he shot her in confusion, thinking she was an intruder."
Pistorius has hired his own high-profile forensic expert to analyze the police reports and post-mortem exam, ENCA reported. His defense team includes lawyer Kenny Oldwage, who previously won an acquittal for a driver accused of killing Nelson Mandela's great-grandchild in a 2010 accident.
'Why my little girl?'
Model and law-school graduate Steenkamp's relatives are hoping for answers.
"Why my little girl?" her mother, June Steenkamp, said in an interview with The Times of Johannesburg, calling her bubbly, blond daughter "the most beautiful person who ever lived."
"All we have is this horrendous death to deal with ... to get to grips with," she said. "All we want are answers ... answers as to why this had to happen, why our beautiful daughter had to die like this."
Steenkamp's family and friends gathered at a 90-seat chapel in Port Elizabeth, where Steenkamp grew up, for her funeral.
"She's my little sister and she's gone," her brother, Adam, told ENCA. "There is a big hole there that cannot be filled by anything else."
Steenkamp and Pistorius had been dating for about three months, and she tweeted a Valentine's Day message hours before her death.
The track star, who captivated the world when he became the first double-amputee to run in the Olympics at last summer's London Games, was a gun enthusiast who once took a reporter writing a profile of him to a firing range.
A South African newspaper reported Monday that he nearly shot a friend by accident while handling another friend's gun at a Johannesburg restaurant.
"I had quite a fright because the bullet hit the ground centimeters from my foot," boxer Kevin Lerena told the Beeld newspaper, according to Agence France-Presse.
"For some reason it got caught on his trousers, flipped the safety pin and a shot went off. I wouldn't say he was negligent. Days afterwards he was still apologizing."
NBC News Staff Writers Ian Johnston and John Newland and Reuters contributed to this report.
Related:
Mother of Pistorius' slain girlfriend: 'Why my little girl?'
Agent: Sponsors sticking by Oscar Pistorius
Oscar Pistorius' agent cancels races
This story was originally published on Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:01 AM EST
Leave a Comment:
Gun nuts exist everywhere, it seems.
Or just nuts...arent there any gun stories that you could save that comment for?
Anyways...it kind of shows you the extent of his deadly impulsive anger when he can get so mad, go grab a gun, come back and shoot to kill...and then very quickly think of a story to get out of it and turn on the regret act as he goes down to the guard carrying her body and claims self defense. Seriously dangerous individual. I wouldn't be surprised if he were to do this again at some other future time.
I just don't understand it. I just don't. But I think he did it. Nothing else seems to fit.
Sounds like "ROID RAGE".
Steroid abuse can lead to extreme violence.
He shot her through the door, right after she crushed her own skull with a cricket club.
Guns don't kill people, people kill people yada, yada, yada...
IDIOTS should not have access to GUNS...
This was not the first time he exhibited his inability to handle a GUN...
NC Law allows you to shot through a door when someone is trying to break-in...
Once they are inside, you can not shoot unless you/family is threatened with bodily harm...
As they are leaving with your stuff, you are only allowed to call the POLICE...
This guy should get to ROT in JAIL...
Wow! appearances really are deceiving. This guy turned out to be nothing but a JERK! just like Lance Armstrong.
The truth IS OBVIOUS: he got DUMPED and his ego could not stand it.
Warning Will Robinson!
Sounds like they got in a little spat and he went into full tilt whacko mode.
Crush! Kill! Destroy!
Surprised I haven't seen anyone come to the defense of the idea of killing a burglar with a gun. I thought most American gun nuts agreed with that idea.
I'd have to say that this is more of a domestic violence issue than a gun issue. There was a history of violence between Oscar Pistorius and his girl friend, Reeva Steenkamp, which, in the United States, would have resulted in the prior arrest and prosecution of "the Blade Runner".
In the United States, aggressive prosecution of such non-fatal cases has resulted in a dramatic drop in spousal murders over the past 20 years. In South Africa, such murders are still far more common.
So, yes, he shot her with a gun, and yes, it would have been somewhat more difficult to kill her with a knife. But it is very difficult to escape the violent intent of someone with whom you live, and even in Great Britain, it would have been legal for Pistorius to have a shot gun in his home.
I do believe that the large number of hand guns and assault weapons in private hands in the U.S., and apparently in South Africa, is not a good thing. But guns were not the central issue in this crime; it was domestic violence, and the failure of South African society to curb it.
Well gee... he could have stabbed her with a knife through the door too though, right? Or he could have beaten her with a hammer through the door. So it's not the gun's fault, right?????
Oscar Pistorius was that law abiding citizen the gun nuts always refer to. He would have sailed through a background check with flying colors.
Before the gunners go ballistic on me, I DO NOT ADVOCATE TAKING YOUR GUNS AWAY.
What I advocate is for you to realize the danger you place yourselves and your loved ones in by having a gun in your house, and get rid of it yourselves.
RIP, Reeva.
kaybeetoys, if you had read the story, which is apparently a pretty big if, you would be possessed of the knowledge that after shooting through the bathroom door, he broke down that door.
Perhaps then you would not have made your silly attempt at sarcasm or ironic humor.
Most people, even those you term "gun nuts", know that burglars do not break in just to use the bathroom.
I did read the story, dman. He shot her through the bathroom door.
To a rational (non gun-nut) person, that would indicate that she locked the door.
Did you not get that part? So what if he broke down the door after he shot her? My comment about knives, hammers and guns still applies.
Would Reeva still be alive if Pistorius had not owned a gun? Hard to say... but her chances would have been a lot better. And he couldn't have claimed to hit her with a cricket bat thinking she was an intruder.
RIP Reeva.
Are you willing to post a sign in your front yard that reads, "My family and I are not in danger, because we don't have guns in the house."?
He belongs in jail, but it certainly does not sound premeditated if it was in the heat of passion. I don't know how long it has to be to be premeditated, but it has to be more than 20 seconds it takes to grab a gun and shoot through a door. This prosecutor needs a lesson on premeditation. Premeditation is cool calculation. And I'll bet steroids are involved, and we don't know about other alcohol or drugs. This guy just seemed to smart and normal, a tragedy for all involved. But without a handy handgun this probably wouldn't have happened.
denver bill, I don't ever post signs in my front yard.
I make my points here, on Newsvine. Anyone who reads them knows better than to mess with me. ;)
Plus, I have a security system. (Come to think of it, they did put a sign in my front yard.)
Maybe the legal definition of "premeditation" is different in South Africa?
Almost none is the amount of danger. The chances an American gun owner will murder with a gun is less than .026%. The chances an American in general will murdered by gun is less than .0041%. (4 in 100,000). More kids die by accident in swimming pools, by far, than by guns by accident. Suicide rates are lower in places where gun ownership is higher (not because guns cause lower suicide rates, but because it just so happens there is no correlation between gun ownership rates and suicide rates). Murder rates are lower in places/demographics with lower gun ownership rates (rates are "per capita").
Whites own more guns per capita than non-whites, and whites have lower violent crime rates and murder rates.
The higher your income the more guns you have per capita, and the lower your income the higher the violent crime rates and murder rates.
The more rural you are where you live the more guns owned per capita, and the more urban the place you live the higher the violent crime rates and murder rates.
There is no correlation between gun ownership rates and violent crime rates and murder rates. If there is no correlation, logically there can be no causation. You put your child in far more danger when you own a car than a gun. So start ALWAYS using a bicycle, bus, or walking everywhere before you tell gun owners how much "danger" they are putting their loved ones in...because the "danger" is low compared to owning a swimming pool or car it's ridiculous. By your logic no one should own a knife because it increases danger in the home (which it also does), or a hammer for that matter (also increases danger). In fact, owning blunt objects like hammers, clubs, and baseball bats are more a statistical danger to your family than owning a rifle (whether or not it is "assault" rifle).
High capacity magazines, "assault' rifles, guns in general, and permits to carry have proliferated at historic highs over the last 20 years in this country....and simultaneously the murder rates and violent crime rates have fallen 49%. Over the last 10 years alone they have fallen 20%. Mass murders have not risen (although we have more coverage of it). That hit its peak in 1929. There simply is no correlation, and therefore no causation, between guns, high capacity mags, "assault" riftles, and permits to carry and violent crime rates, suicide rates, and murder rates.
Go to the following link I am quoting so you can click on the links in the article to see debunking of studies with flawed methodology that many, MANY, people quote when trying to make opposing points. Those studies use misleading language ("homocide" instead of "murder", because "homocide" means suicides, accidents, death by cop, and legal self defenses - justifiable homocides), stacked data (counting incidents more than once), flawed methodology (they count international stats while passing them off as fully USA-based gun stats), and convenient omission of stats (they ignore violent crime rates or nations that won't fit their arguments). Big clues are the words "homocide" and "OECD nations" (the richest nations, which is like admitting that murder rates and violent crime rates are caused by poverty, but not ackowledging it while blaming ito n guns). Another clue is "there is more gun murder where there are more guns" (duh), but not discussing total murder rates (which is higher almost always where there are less guns).
This study finds similar facts:
Actually, Gary, it is you who does not understand premeditation or heat of passion. A heat of passion defense does not relate to simply being angry. It relates to circumstances that were so extreme, a reasonable person would have been unable to think clearly. For example, the most classic example, you caught your spouse en flagrante, or you found someone molesting your child. Having a bad temper during an argument is not the same thing. With regard to premeditation, it can be only a couple of seconds. Premeditation refers to a mental state, mens rea, the intent to kill, even only an instant prior to the killing.
denver bill 2, your argument is compelling, but it fails to recognize the statistics. If you put all the incidents where a homeowner used a gun to successfully defend his household on one side, and on the other all the heat of passion shootings, accidental shootings, thefts of those guns, use of guns in crimes on the other, than there is no comparison.
It may feel safer to hold a gun in your hand, but that is ignoring the bigger picture.
Gary_Chicago ... premeditation can be formed seconds before the trigger is pulled. It does not have to be "more than 20 seconds it takes to grab a gun and shoot through a door". Premeditation can form in the very few seconds BEFORE grabbing the gun and shooting. It can form after the gun is drawn and before it is shot. All it takes is the DECISION to shoot to kill. Shooting 4 times through a LOCKED bathroom door into a very small room with no escape for the person inside might seem to indicate that he had INTENT to kill - and that's all it takes to be premeditated.
Ahh, Kaybee, the mistake is mine. I took your silly remarks to be the result of inattention to detail. I see now it is due to lack of logical thinking.
A first grade student could explain to you that IF Oscar Pistorius was capable of breaking down the bathroom door, after firing his gun through it, he is ALSO capable of breaking it down BEFORE wielding either a knife or a hammer.
The door, to make it simple for you, was not sufficient protection against Oscar Pistorius' murderous intent. The gun may have been a convenience in this murder. It was not a necessity.
I'm actually in favor of much stronger gun laws. Yet I find the "thought process" of some gun control advocates, such as yourself, an embarrassment. You make outrageous statements, such as post 1.11, and attempt to view every tragedy through the lens of gun control.
It would be at least as believable that, in a darkened apartment, a frightened man might swing at an unidentified person with a cricket bat, as it its that a burglar might break-in, and then seclude himself in a locked bathroom.
What deadly threat does an intruder locked in a bathroom present, methane gas emissions??
Please, use your head. It really is not just a there to keep your hat off your shoulders.
Well, Ro Mar, I'm not a lawyer, but to me acting in the heat of an argument is very different than planning to kill someone.
kaybeetoys- you are right he would not have been able to kill her thru the door with a knife or hammer- he would have just waited till she came out of the bathroom and then killed her- gun,knife,hammer- whatever the outcome would habe been the same- he was nuts and he would have got the job done no matter what kind of weapon he choose to use-
I suppose that it's possible she fell in love with him because he was a wonderful, handsome, kind person, or she could have just been in love with his celebrity (gold digger?)
And your source for these statistics is .........?
Gold digger? She was a model and an actress. Seems to me she had more than enough money and smarts to pave her own path and blaze her own trail. Which was what she was intending to do, before her murder, evidently.
You are correct that the locked bathroom door was not sufficient protection. A gun can be fired through a door.
And you are also correct that he could have beaten her to death with a cricket bat after breaking down said bathroom door... but let's remember the particulars of this situation:
Oscar Pistorius loved Reeva Steenkamp. She loved him. It was Valentine's Day.
Did he really want her dead? Did he really want to ruin his own life as well? Or was he in an out-of-control rage?
Might his rage have dissipated somewhat by the time he broke down the door? Just the physical act of breaking down a door might have brought him to his senses.
Maybe he broke down the door because he realized he had shot her and wanted to help her?
The sound he made breaking down the door might have alerted the neighbors to call police.
Reports are that he called friends, devastated by what he had done. Without the gun, perhaps it never would have escalated all the way to her death.
If he would tell the truth we would have a lot better idea of what happened and why.
But I stand by my comment that the gun killed her. You can't run or hide from a bullet.
GUILTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WHERE in this story is the question, did you not call through the door and ask who was in there? Wasn't your girlfriend NORMALLY in bed NEXT TO YOU? Seeing she was not there, was it possible she could've been in the bathroom? Not once did he say he called out asking "who is in there" .
His alibi sounds like a dog ate my homework story.
Perhaps. Perhaps not. That's the nice thing about hypothetical (ie. Made up, in the absence of factual evidence) questions. They can be tailored to advance an agenda without overtly claiming to do so.
Suppose, for the sake of argument, that what you say is true. There are about 300 million firearms in the United States. According to the CDC, there were 11,078 homicides committed with guns in 2010. That's a little less than one homicide for every 25,000 guns. How do you separate the "good" guns from the "bad" guns?
I am living proof that your claim is false.
Meanwhile gas prices are $5/gallon in CA and rising. Meat prices are rising 10% by summer. National debt at $16.53 trillion and rising
The difference between a gun and most any other tool is that it gives the user an automatic claim of innocence.
It was an accident, I swear I didn't know who it was, I didn't mean for the gun to go off. With any other tool you have to be within 6 feet and look the person in the eye before you strike.
The Blade Runner defense?
Maybe he thought she was a Replicant.
Totally agree. Time to turn off the Soap Operas and get back to work :-D
He claims he didn't have his legs on and shot from the floor. The defense says he put on his legs and got up and shot her. Can't they tell by the projectory if he was on the floor or standing?
"But I stand by my comment that the gun killed her. You can't run or hide from a bullet." Kaybee
As on so many other points, WRONG AGAIN. Pistorius killed her, he just used a gun to do so. Sorry you can't understand the difference, but that's your problem.
Sheeple like you think you can legislate away all the ills of society or the bad intentions of individual, free thinking, free-willed human beings. Your gun control laws are simple-minded, quick-fix, ineffective lip-service that avoids the harder, true solutions. We can site statistics, studies, results of educated research all day long like ProIndividual (#1.19) did, but you and your ilk always choose to ignore them for your knee-jerk and, frankly, offensive reactions.
"Before the gunners go ballistic on me, I DO NOT ADVOCATE TAKING YOUR GUNS AWAY. What I advocate is for you to realize the danger you place yourselves and your loved ones in by having a gun in your house, and get rid of it yourselves."
And if "the gunners" don't bow to your wishes, THEN you will advocate taking away their guns. Granted, you may not literally confiscate the firearms, but you will tax the he11 out of them, require expensive insurance, limit magazine capacity, ration ammunition, make bullets/shells and gun powder prohibitively expensive. ANYTHING that will make it difficult or nearly impossible to use the guns. Don't deny this, your brethren on this forum and your political leaders have already called for this to happen. Besides, the "gunners" already understand the risks/benefits of firearms. Why don't you leave them alone and go work on the real culprits of gun violence: the drug trade and street gangs. THAT is truly where the problem lies. Fix THAT problem, and we'll become one of, if not THE, safest nations on the planet.
"Oscar Pistorius was that law abiding citizen the gun nuts always refer to."
That's right, and until he pulled the trigger (assuming that the prosecution is correct) he wasn't a criminal. It was the ACT of murder that made him a criminal. It seems you people try to criminalize and punish people for POTENTIAL crimes, or HYPOTHETICAL crimes, or for thought processes that you don't agree with. I know it's a work of fiction, but there might be a lesson for you in the movie Minority Report. Better yet, go read the Phillip K. Dick story. Even with a mind clouded by hallucinogenic drugs, he still had a better concept of a free society than you people do.
The sound you keep hearing is your knee hitting your desk.
Guy has one big flaw in his story and that is.....why was the bathroom door locked? Man and a woman alone in their apartment and one has to go to the bathroom never lock the door period....He made this all up. Add to that the the tranquil night they spent together leaves out the part the police were called there earlier to break up a fight and the fact the neighbors heard them arguing before the incident happened poke a massive hole in his fantasy story. He is crying because he fears whats going to happen to him in jail not because he wasted a near perfect life.
As we consider the murder of this woman, let us take comfort knowing that guns do not kill that many people.
Hi Pro Individual. You want to talk about guns? I'll talk to you about guns.
What are the numbers for knives? The numbers for knives have to be even smaller than that. And there are more knives than guns, yes? And it's OK to leave knives around chidlren. Does this demonstrate that guns are more dangerous that knives?
Perhaps that is why no one would ever be charged with a crime for leaving a knife lying around a home where there are children. But you go to jail if you leave a loaded gun laying around a house where there are children.
If children should not be allowed near a loaded gun, can you think of any adults who should also not be allowed near a loaded gun?
Kaybeetoy if the gun killed her, how did it fire itself? You say nobody needs a gun in their house, so when 2 men break into my house with a gun what am I suppose to do?
So "Notfooled" . . . if there was gun control, those hypothetical "2 men" breaking into your house with a gun wouldn't break in your house with guns, now would they???
Gary_Chicago,
Actually Gary, this is another example of someone being ignorant of statistics and facts. Bill Clinton's administration did a study and found that Americans use guns 1.5 million times in self defense. This completely blows all murder, violent crime, suicide, accidental death, etc by guns out of the water. So yes, you are way more likely to use a gun in self defense than for someone to die from a gun. (Most of the time, someone just has to pull the gun out for the bad guy to give up).
Exactly "Ben or Eileen" the 2 men would have no guns because all bad guys follow the law.
Knives do kill fewer people...in the USA. That's largely because where guns are available people choose them as weapons among other choices. Take away guns, like in some Euro nations, and people stab the crap out of each other. I wouldn't leave knives around young kids who are unattended. I also don't leave scissors around them unattended. But again, swimming pools are more dangerous than guns to kids, and then knives are less dangerous than guns. All in all, guns are very low risk to kids, as are the greater danger; swimming pools. Knives would be an even lower danger. I'm not going to dig up a swimming pool because I have kids...I'm going to take precautions to prevent them from drowning in it (like a fence around the pool which locks, draining the pool when it isn't swimming season, teaching them water safety rules, and TEACHING THEM HOW TO SWIM above all else).
The answer is to take the same approach with kids and guns you do with knives and swimming pools. You secure the object, pay attention when the child is around them, remove the object when you will not have a real reason to have it out, teach the kids safety rules about the object, and teach them to use the object how it was intended to be used). Negligence issues surrounding kids and guns should be treated like negligent issues with knives and swimming pools. The object in question is irrelevant.
I have no problem with kids going hunting with a parent, with a loaded gun. I have no problem with kids target shooting with a parent with a loaded gun. I did both as a child and I never shot myself, my parent, or anyone else. The idea no kid should be around a loaded gun is incorrect. Kids should be around loaded guns like thety are around shatrp knives and swimming pools full of water...with parental supervision and with a full education beforehand as to the rules and safety. That's how you raise successful and responsible adults in terms of using a knife at dinner, swimming in a pool, and hunting/target shooting.
BTW...I still enjoy target shooting, but never did like hunting much. So even for me hunting isn't a main point, but I'm not against others doing it.
Oh..and yes, I can think of adults who shouldn't have guns...violent felons (whether felons because of mental illness or not). If a gun dealer sells a gun to man talking to himself and saying 'I can't wait to kill someone", or some such hypothet, then of course the salesman should be liable, just as bartender is liable when he sells alcohol to an underage kid who didn't have ID. But how many psychopaths and schizos are acting crazy at the moment they buy the weapon? How many will actually fail a test if given a psych exam before buying a gun? Almost none.
There isn't a govt solution to every problem in the world. Life isn't perfect. It comes with risks. And liberty especially comes with risks. Freedom can be sacrificed to gain safety, but then as Ben Franklin said you will "deserve neither". No pre-emptive measures should be law that prevent harm and fraud (because you largely can't prevent them before they occur...unless you're a psychic...lol); harm and fraud should be severely dealt with once it occurs. A very tiny percentage of daily economic transactions are fraudelant. We shouldn't assume guilt for everyone by regulating pre-emptively. The "assumption of innocence" comes to mind. A very tiny number of people harm other people among all the interactions people have with each other...you don't assume everyone is harmful via law unless you're paranoid. So don't assume we'rte all guilty of harm...wait until someone, that rare person, commits n act of harm, and then punish them severely. Everyone else is fine...and you aren't going to prevent those rare acts of harm without doing worse harm in the process (stripping innocent people of their assumption of innocence and their rights).
Freedom and liberty comes with risks. Some people would prefer to kneel before the politicians we elect every few years than to be free people. I prefer freedom and liberty, and the risk they entail is the cost.
Most people are going on and on about the fact that the bathroom door is locked, but according to his statement, he didn't try the door before shooting through it. My door to my bathroom is always closed, he might keep his the same, no way to know if it's locked or not. Who is to say he didn't panic, albeit prematurely, and overreact. It's sad, but there are cases of mistaken identity with the shootings of family members in the US too. If he did yell for her to call the police, he wouldn't be where he is, but the only person to verify that is deceased. There's a lot of speculation going on, but for me, his story creates believable doubt. Which sometimes is all that matters in a court of law. Innocent until proven guilty.
Sounds like another Phil Spector.
I know the saying: "Guns don't kill people, stupid people with guns kill people".
True enough, so when a stupid person with a gun kills a person they cannot possibly be "innocent" when someone is dead, and once they grab the gun it can't be an "accident" either.
I think the guy killed her on purpose and planned to use this weak "intruder" story as an excuse.
Sorry, but just like she can't be brought back to life, he cannot be "excused" for killing her.
Why do pro gun people say this? Can you post a link to the report that says this?
Is this it?
http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/165476.pdf
read it, especially the section on DGUs
Yea... and the crickett club fell on her head yeeaaa... sure... Toss his sorry @$$ in Prison.
Me too, So what does that have do with guns? Take away some types of guns from some people, and you have arguably, decreased their freedom and liberty, a little.
A person killed by a murderer with a gun has lost the ultimate freedom and liberty, their life.
Maybe we should have a national holiday so we can remember the innocent victims of gun violence, who gave their lives so that others could have guns?
The problem with guns is how each of us understands the benefit vs risk.
I happen to think that hand guns are a plague on our society. A lot fewer people ought to have hand guns. Now, you can whip out the stats and show that relatively speaking, so few people are killed each year with hand guns. I need to worry about something else.
But what are the benefits of hand guns, and what damage do they cause? I don't see the need for a lot of people having hand guns.
America is one of the few countries in the world that makes is easy for a citizen to get a hand gun. Why is that? What are those other stupid countries missing?
His story is total BS! He killed her plain and simple. If the death penalty is not available there, then I hope he finds a real nice Bubba as a husband. Dirt bag.
You will have to quote me, please. Where have I ever stated that gun control laws are the solution?
We have plenty of laws on the books and yet tens of thousands of Americans are shot and killed every year.
Read my lips: What would make a difference is for Americans to quit buying into the fear-mongering and paranoia of the right wing. What would help is for our citizens to quit buying guns by the truckload and find other measures to make our communities more safe and secure.
You call me a sheeple? I haven't been brainwashed by the arms industry to barricade myself inside my house with an arsenal, cowering in fear.
Someone wants to break in and shoot me? Bring it.
I just love how a person makes a post full of logic and facts (ProIndividual) and it gets collapsed because some people can't stand to have anyone disagree with them and their way of thinking. I am fairly positive that CC GWRider's post will get collapsed as well. Some of you people are just like 6 year olds, if you don't like something, like the truth, you are going to take your ball and go home. Better yet, like an ostrich burying your heads in the sand.
The problem with the man's story is that he told it too soon. Don't say anything to anyone until the trial, and then let the attorney explain everything. The oldest lessons are sometimes the hardest ones to learn. On the other hand, on those occasions when guilt corners itself, it's not such a bad thing.
Is this guy guilty? Probably, but that's what trials and juries are for. If he is guilty, maybe he's only half guilty - sort of - because the part of him that doesn't have abandonment or control or jealousy issues might never have done such a terrible thing. Unfortunately, the better half of him will also go to prison since the darker side is in control, it seems. We all have a darker side. Who's in control of yours?
Based on the story at hand, your question should have been, "...so when I get into a fight with my girlfriend, what am I supposed to do?"
That's part of the problem with guns. They destroy self control. They magnify anger and violence. What one might do in a fit of rage without a gun is far less likely to cost a life.
Notice how he was not is so much fear that he stood in front of a closed door while shooting 4 times?
How did he know that the person in the bathroom, a supposed burglar, did not also have a gun?
Lets see if he dies in the arms...of an electric chair.
Care to explain the (much) higher homicide rate in the US as compared to the UK (where less than 5% of people own guns) then?
Case closed.
Rob80,
The UK has more violent crime than the US. There you go.
KBToys,
When all the news agencies do nothing but gun stories to make scared people like you more afraid, you still call the right wing fear mongers. lol
Kaybee - "guns magnify anger and violence". Really? I have several and I don't feel angry or violent around them at all. In fact I feel quite peacefull. I also don't, what was it you said, "barricade myself inside my house with an arsenal, cowering in fear". LOL. Half the time after checking my mailbox I forget to lock the front door. I would say that I don't know where you people get these ridiculous statements and beliefs but I do know from whence they came - the media and through propagation by individuals like you.
Mr. Burns - Both parties create their own fabricated reasons to be afraid whether it be this current gun craze on the part of the liberals or the crack epidemic which was declared in the 80s by the GOP when crack wasn;t even really a blip yet on the market screen.
Nobody worse for this country than GOPers who blame Dems and Dems who blame GOPers for everything.
More specifically, guns turn confrontations into deadly confrontations.
Let's see if money can buy justice there too.
Let's see if money can buy justice there too.
South Africa is the heaven that the GOP wants to build in here: very little protection from the government (almost non-existent) and the ability to buy as many weapons as you wish.
I would not be surprised if he gets away with it.
You can't buy justice...that's injustice.
The prosecutor's description of murder is called "standing your ground" in Florida.
"shot dead behind a locked bathroom door - thinking she was an intruder."
In other words he didn't know who was in bathroom, never saw the person...did he ever ask who's in there..has a gun in hand why be scared now?
It's valentines day..she gets there around 5-6 PM possible dinner date (wasn't he expecting her).
House wasn't broken into and small door to bathroom lock from the inside (bad idea to hide there if a crook, but a scared girlfriend would).
Its a upscale home with alarms, private community with guards at gate and electrified walls around community. At a time when most are home or coming home from work.
His neighbors admit they heard loud arguments a few times in past from them.
He's GUILTY!
IRESPOND, Bringing in politics really really gets old. I realize you liberals are dumber than a doornail, but at least keep your stupidity hidden, so others don't have to put up with it. PLEEEASE.
That's odd. Most people who had a guest in the house wouldn't feel "terror" upon hearing a noise in the bathroom.
A chuckle, perhaps. Disgust, maybe. But terror????
The guy sounds like a total phony.
Sadly, I know and you know he's guilty. He murdered this young woman. Let's be real about that. But, it's the trickery of the judicial system that will even make this a case. And if the defense attorney is a really good magician, he might even pull this magic act off. It happens ALL THE TIME AND IT'S SO WRONG!
"I heard a noise in my bathroom. ... I felt a sense of terror. ... I believed that someone had entered my house. ... I grabbed my 9mm pistol... As I did not have my prosthetic legs on I felt extremely vulnerable. I had to protect Reeva and myself."
Protect Reeva? When he heard someone using the bathroom, did he ever take a second to look next to him on the bed to see if Reeva was there? She was in her nightie when police arrived to find her shot dead so obviously and especially his statement that he didn't have his legs on that they had gone to bed. I mean, if he was so so so concerned for her, wouldn't that be his first thought? Not, OMG - someone broke into my home and is peeing in my toilet?
This is the first time that it has been stated that she was using the toilet. That means she would have been sitting. Had he been shooting at an unknown intruder, he would have been shooting straight in chest level. We know he hit her four times. That means he was aiming down at someone sitting on the toilet and not straight ahead. That means he knew it was a woman using the toilet, and he knew who that woman was. You can all see that, can't you?
I hope they don't fall for his malarkey like the American courts..
No politics, ok, but you do need to be educated:
Liberals with actual IQ over 110 and up to 180 are by far the majority of university students and professors, like 77 %, so that was a simple but factual statement, but of course, that is why you need guns so you can stand your ground, if you do not have much else--and why some of you call global warming a theory, even though anyone can see land over a big part of Greenland--same attitude as this killer!
No I am not one of "those", I am scientist at the highest level (yes as said by others) but that is why I find no real political party in USA--because the main ones are all dumbed down to fit the masses, not that unusual in any country with a percieved democracy(not factual), but in some Western countries we do have several other bigger parties, so people like me can go to that, and make a coalition government by the actual people.
But I wrote this about politics because I really do not understand why we need to hear about this killer, he is treated like a hero with all this attention---Why?
Can someone tell me if it is dark in South Africa between 5 and 6pm? And if so, why would this person be sleep and afraid if it is broad daylight, or just getting dark. Sounds to fishy.
Don Giacomo
The prosecutor's description of murder is called "standing your ground" in Florida.
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35 states have stand your ground.... and this wouldn't qualify in all 35....
I hope there's aren't similar idiots at this guys trial... because this story is BS
If people are interested in how the court system works in South Africa, I found this:
There is no jury system in South Africa. Trials are conducted by a judge (magistrate) assisted by 2 assessors who fulfill the jury role. Once the trial is over, the judge with his 2 assessors go through the evidence presented and determine the verdict. The magistrate and assessors look only at the evidence produced at the trial.
If the evidence is even close to what we've been reading and the defense is the same weak crap as well, this guy is going to jail - or should if this was a fair and just world.
@Knowledge one - That's the time she arrived at his home. The shooting actually occurred sometime around 2 am, 2 hours after police had left their home after being called there for a domestic dispute.
MSN - Do something about this wilson cat! His crap is starting to stink as bad as Pistorius' story.
Wow, as usual someone is convicted in the "court of public opinion" based on media reports.
From the reports, yes, it does sound as if he's culpable, however, this is all based on what has been reported by the prosecutor. We really haven't heard from the defense yet or his side of the story other than what the media has reported.
Remember people, the media usually exaggerates and reports the first thing they hear regardless of the source and/or confirmation of "facts". Take for instance the headline of the New York Times the day after 9/11 in huge bold letters, "UP TO 10,000 DEAD IN TWIN TOWERS" If you read the news, from any news source, more often than not they use a headline that begs the reader to check out the article. And most of the time, the headline is very misleading. THIS IS JOURNALISM, NOT A FACTUAL REPORT. Keep this in mind when you read what the media is feeding you!!!
All of the posts on here are speculation what the media has reported and if you take this as "gospel" as to what really happened, you need to think a little deeper than the shallow reports of the media!!!
No one knows what really happened. Only the suspect and the victim. Obviously and most sadly, we won't hear the victim's side. Reserve judgement until the REAL ACTUAL FACTS come out. Don't judge on some half-a$$ed media report published to garner headlines!!!
She was first reported to be sitting on the counter by the sink, then later on the toilet. Sitting on the toilet is not necessarily the same as using the toilet.
Another issue: if he weren't wearing his artificial legs, he'd have been shooting upwards from a sitting or kneeling position on the floor. Forensics could determine the angle from which the bullets were fired and entered her body.
When did he put on his artificial legs? Did he break down the door wearing them or not? Seems like he'd have needed them for that. What about the blood? Where was it on his body, and was it on the artificial legs?
The forensic evidence could prove very troubling for his story. Is that why he's hired his own investigator?
I think the big question is why would she lock the door? If shes staying with him and there are no strangers in the house why would she lock the bathroom door? That early in the morning you get out of bed to use the bathroom and you lock the door? Does not add up.
i remember back when i was younger and stories my mother had told me was that when people heard noises inside there house that sounded weird, instead of walking through the house with a gun they walked with a baseball bat for protection.
You know, I find this oddly believable. I once worked a case where a father had woken in the middle of the night, and heard noises in his kitchen. He thought someone had broken into the house, so he walked downstairs and unloaded his handgun into the kitchen, killing his 15 year old daughter. You can not believe how many of these stupid, senseless shootings by paranoid people happen every year. The only difference here is that the shooter is famous.
irespond - shut up moron. This is not a political story. Get off your ignorant libtard horse and wake up and smell the coffee. The lib president wants to build a communist run here, the GOP wants sanity. Idiot.
I saw on another site that actually had drawings of the crime scene discribing what happened according to known evidence. It shows that the bed was rumpled, showing it was slept in. Reeva's iPad was on the floor next to bed between it and the bathroom. They suspect that she was shot once in the hip at that point and fled to the bathroom. Pistorius's gun holster is on the opposite side of the bed on the nightstand. She locked herself in the bathroom and Pistorius shot 4 more shots through the door. They suspect after he got into the bathroom, he took one more shot at her - I'm guessing from rounds left in the gun and slugs found in the walls. She was also hit in the head, the arm and the hand. The blood covered cricket bat that we still don't know how it was used was found propped up neatly against the bed at the foot of the bed. All I know, the photos and videos that show Pistorius in court and being led there, he doesn't look as if he has been hit with a bat. Now remember, Pistorius is telling us how he is so helpless without his legs on, yet he gets her out of the bathroom and manages to carry her downstairs where police find him with her in her nightie dying in his arms. We also know he phoned at least two other people for help before calling police. He was so concerned for her, remember his statement? Yet he called friends while she was still alive bleeding and dying before calling police. Like I said, she died shortly after the police arrived. What a lovely Valentine!
Dating for 3 months... so absolutly nothing to gain by killing her. Would have been very easy to just dump her. Has a fairly credible story showing what a chickensh!t he is... so either he has the worst roid rage ever, or he's really a paranoid clutz who shoots first and asks questions later.
My one and only nagging thought is that if I had a gun in my hands, and there was someone locked in MY bathroom that I highly suspected was someone intent on doing me harm, would I shoot, or would I shout "WHO'S IN THERE?!" first? Obviously, he did not, and that would seem to indicate to me that if he is telling the truth, and this is just a horrid accident, then perhaps this guy is one of the most monumentally stupid people on the face of the planet.
This bastard felt terror and then he "mistakenly" shot his girlfriend.... FOUR EFFING TIMES. You mistakenly shoot a person once, that I would understand. But, after the first shot, there is no way she is not screaming asking for him to stop.
Speaking of terror, I can only imagine the terror that poor woman felt as she was being brutally murdered.
His punishment should include him not being able to wear his prostesis. Let him crawl around his cell for the rest of his life, like the animal he is.
I think the whole thing is going to come down to three items. 1) The bloody cricket bat - that doesn't make any sense with his story. 2) Did he shoot her or shoot his gun before she got into the bathroom. 3) Did he shoot her again after he got into the bathroom.
I actually find his story believable. There was a story not too long ago about a police officer who shot his own son because he thought it was a burglar breaking into his hotel room. Pistorius lives in an extremely violent city, he is disabled and sounds a bit paranoid from other articles I've read. I'll reserve judgement until all the facts are in, I guess.
@rmb22 - We can only go by the evidence reported to us in the news. It is that bloody cricket bat that does not fit in with his story and I suspect will ultimately be his doom. She was alive when police arrived at his home. So no matter what, if he used that bat at first to try and murder her, or used it later after he found out who she was to cover things up - she was still alive when police arrived - so he would have used it on a living person. That is if the blood is hers and like I've said before, in the photos and videos, he did not look like someone who has been hit with a blood covered bat.
There are definite oddities about this story.
1. Firing at a locked bathroom door. If it was locked and assumed he established this by trying it and since its such a small bathroom wouldn't the occupant have called out "I'm in here"?
2. If malaice was his intent, why not shoot her where he had a unimpeded target? Shooting at a door might have just wounded her or missed entirely.
3. If he got up to take the fan out of the window, wouldn't he have noticed she was not in the bed to start with?
Possibilities include sleepwalking/night-time paranoia/temporary psychosis. Breaking down the way he has in court suggests either immense regret and remorse or a deliberate attempt to gain the courts sympathy to believe it was a tragic accident. More on the earlier domestic dispute and any prior examples are needed.
Grant bail but take away his prosthetics and relegate him to home and TAKE AWAY all his guns (which I assume they have done already).
Just for being that STUPID they should put this clown away, this is the problem with people that OWN guns some of them a Pet Monkey is smarter. You are going to fire through a door without yelling a warning when there was another peoson in the place I bet if there was a required IQ test for Gun ownership there would be way less guns. I'm a NRA member but I just hate MORONS.
poor little tink tink...
I want to add this as well. Two hours before she was killed, the police were at their home to break up a fight between the two of them. Two hours. I have been angry before, but not so angry that police had to be called in to calm me down. Even so, such anger as I've had at the worst of times, it does not cool down so quickly and may even still be inside me for days later depending on how strongly I felt about it. So much so that I had trouble thinking because all I could think about was the thing that made me angry. I cannot imagine that everyone here reading this has not felt the same. So now, back to the police breaking up there fight two hours before she was killed. Do you really think he fell asleep so soundly two hours later that he would have woken up disoriented enough to not know his girlfriend wasn't next to him in bed and frightened that some intruder was in the bathroom so that he began shooting through the door? Or, does it make more sense that during the two hours after the police left that they were still talking and somehow his anger was re-triggered and somehow amplified into a killing rage?
hakstarr.....you said:
Here's a possibility: She took refuge, on account of a fight, in the bathroom. Most anyone, wishing to take refuge in a bathroom, would lock the door.
Guns and lovers' quarrels are a deadly mixture. It's pretty hard to stab someone to death through a door. A gun allows a murderer to deal death without so much as seeing the victim's face or getting his hands dirty.
Firearms facilitate murder, very quickly, at a distance, impersonally, and very efficiently.
But, as we all know: Firearms don't kill people. People kill people.
That's why right-wingers could not care less if Iran possesses nuclear weapons. They are sticklers for consistency, you know.
lol plain bob. i forget that comedian's name. that had me rolling
You make a strong point about emotions KhanKubla. Speaking for myself, if police had been summoned to my house I would probably have remained awake the rest of the night but definitely me and my significant other would not have shared the same bed immediately thereafter unless we kissed and made up after realizing our actions (or my actions) were uncalled for. Maybe that's what happened but seems unlikely. I understand it was the neighbors who called police. Maybe the argument simply continued afterwards, each blaming the other and like so many other domestic situations with a handy gun around, it resulted in someone getting shot and killed.
We are all taught from day one all the wrong values and therefore get into all kinds of emotional dramas which lead to committing crime of moral indignation, crime of passion, jealousy and greed. All in all people are more inclined to be confrontational than conciliatory, resorting to anger at the drop of a hat due to their inability to ratiocinate, to be educated and philosophical enough to harness the ego and all the pride and principles that are not conducive to their well being and the well being of society as a whole. With the sort of upbringing most people have from parents who were badly brought up themselves by their parents who were just as badly raised, if not worse, they are all effectively victims of victims and unless there is a radical rethink, so as to rid the mind of the good old bad old ways, of entitlement, of ownership of, and belonging to one another, these sort of violence, domestic or otherwise will normally go on. Anger, apart from being an unhealthy (cancer causing) emotion, is also a deadly emotion.
This is a lose-lose situation. No matter what happens, nothing is going to set this right for either of them. His life and reputation is as forever destroyed as her life.
That cricket bat is crucial. If she has a head injury other than a gunshot wound, he's done. Here he tries to explain it away and he will perhaps claim if there is blood on it that he dropped it as he held her. But how often do people fire though a door in self defense? And why was the bathroom door locked? And he claims he got the gun from under his bed yet he never saw that she was not in the bed only feet away? Never even checked for her from his story. He is hoping to claim this was involuntary manslaughter. But as I saw a commentator quite brilliantly state, that even if it were a burglar that were in that bathroom, it would still be a potential case of murder.
Nothing about his bizarre story adds up. It sounds like he is a cold blooded killer. Absolutely ruthless. As the story reveals, he had her trapped in that tiny bathroom area. She had no possible escape. Is the man everyone cheered at the Olympics last summer a literal monster?
Of course the forensic evidence will be critical. The angle of fire will tell whether he did or did not have on his prosthetic legs. Sounds like he is saying he was on his stumps. That should be fairly simple to decipher. And if he struck her first and drove her into the bathroom that should be easy to figure as well.
This is like the OJ case, only with far more potential revealing evidence. He will not slip this noose. Regardless of all of his tears.
Sounds like another Phil Spector.
I know the saying: "Guns don't kill people, stupid people with guns kill people".
True enough, so when a stupid person with a gun kills a person they cannot possibly be "innocent" when someone is dead, and once they grab the gun it can't be an "accident" either.
I think the guy killed her on purpose and planned to use this weak "intruder" story as an excuse.
Sorry, but just like she can't be brought back to life, he cannot be "excused" for killing her.
He is F ing lying Steroids will mess you up
the intruder broke into my house and to go through my bed room to take a s H it I shot through the door cause it was a Private time and my legs were not on so I could not open the door. First rule in using deadly force, ID the target.
@Voxrationis - Yes, I agree the blood covered cricket bat is his doom because it does not fit into his story. He woke up, heard someone who locked themselves inside his bathroom. He gets his gun and starts shooting his gun through the door - that's his story. So why the cricket bat? He has a gun, why the bat? He opens the door and finds his dying girlfriend inside the bathroom. Again, why the bloody bat. He shot her with a gun, if it were an intruder, why go from a gun to a bat? The police arrive at his home, she is still alive according to police reports and she dies in his arms. So, we come back to the bloody bat - why is it there? If she has head injuries from a blunt object and they match the bat and because she was alive when the police arrived, that means she was bludgeoned with the bat either before or after he shot her while she was still alive and there is no way for him to say he thought she was an intruder.
Or maybe he has a lot of sympathy, regret and remorse for himself and how he has totally ruined his life and his reputation.
His story doesn't add up. No rational person would do what he claims to have done.
His house is in a gated community. Why spend the extra money to live in a gated community if the security provided was so useless that an intruder could break in without anyone else seeing or hearing anything?
His version of events smells like a boatload of rotting cod.
In south africa i can see his point. After the big push in the 80's to ruine Apartheid that place has went to hell. Looting,robbing,murder not a lot of law. However he should have know and probably did.
Guilty. Why would an intruder break into a house to hide in a small toilet room? Does that make logical sense? No. Does his explanation make logical sense? No. His whole story stinks like rotten fish. If you have a 9 mm pistol, why fear an intruder that is hiding in a tiny toilet room? Also, if he knew exactly where "the intruder" was, why was he so scared? Why did he shoot first then try to find his girlfriend? Too many holes in his story. And as the prosecution said, its still murder either way.
The locked door means little or nothing. I've locked the bathroom door when I'm in the bathroom and not alone in the house my whole life. It is way too presumptuous to simply assume that everybody (especially every woman) is as carefree about peeing (or other) and having someone (meaning anyone) else walk in as "you" may be. In fact, I don't even want people standing outside the bathroom door talking to me when I'm in there. Different strokes for different folks.
And then there's the question of why a burglar would lock himself in such a tiny bathroom. For that matter, why would the girlfriend? There's no way out. If things were so bad that she had to do that, why not leave? If things were so bad two hours earlier that the police had to come over a "domestic dispute", then why was she still there two hours later?!
Where I live, if the police are called for domestic situations later determined to be legitimate, one of the two partners has to leave the premises for the evening before the cops do. It's not multiple choice and that's the way of it even if both parties insist that the issue is resolved.
So...it's a little early to start making claims about "guilty" on the basis of "facts" or "common sense", isn't it? The only facts so far are that this woman was shot to death and her boyfriend was the shooter. The particulars have not been satisfactorily proven if even agreed on.
I'm reserving judgment until more comes out, but as neutral as I'm trying to be, the part about 'going out on the balcony to bring a fan in" gives me pause.........HOW did he manage that without his legs on?
Too much unecessary detail, which a lot of murderers always get into for no discernible reason. Why didn't he just claim a 'noise' woke him up?
I'll wait but he just slipped a bit more as far as I'm concerned.
Even if he's not lying, he is too stupid to be on the "outside".
What a fool!
I just read in a South African newspaper that his nieghbors who heard the shots, said they were not shot off Bang! Bang! Bang! Bang! Like someone in terror and in a panic, but more like... Bang! Bang! la la la la la la lalee lalee loo de la la la la la la lalee loo, is there going to be another shot... la la la lalee loo lalee loo... Bang! Bang!
Another thing, their fight 2 hours earlier may have been about an email she received from a rugby player friend of hers. Her iPad was found on the floor by the bed like it was dropped on the way to the bathroom. Maybe she got another email. If there was, that will be easy to show.
@Herrin - Actually, according to South African law (these aren't US laws) the prosecution has already proved this was premeditated murder, whether it was intentionally against his girlfriend or even if it was a burglar. The person was trapped and helpless inside the bathroom and he fired into it without declaring his intent.
Okay......He stumps his way out onto the porch through the sliding glass doorway to get the fan. Stumps his way back into the bedroom... Hears a noise in the bathroom that is an intruder... stumps his way over to the nightstand to get his gun... doesn't want to wake up his beautiful girlfriend.... stumps his way back over to the bathroom doorway that is closed.... gets up on his stumps and shoots through the doorway 4 times?? The trajectory of the bullets from the midget would have to be on an inclined plane of about 60 degrees if he were shooting at a normal sized standing intruder. I think you will find that the 180 degree plane of the bullets paths will prove that the blade runner should have premeditated this murder better. I am not stumped by the evidence and the "Blade Runner" is guilty as charged....string him up!! ..........Clue! : Blade Runner.... with a Gun.... in the Bathroom
I found another copy of Pistorius' statement on another site that has some other details not included here:
"Briefly, in a statement to the court, Oscar Pistorius has set out his version of events on the night Reeva Steenkamp died.
He said they went to bed and fell asleep.
He woke to close a sliding door and get a fan and went out on to the balcony, he said.
At that point he heard a noise in the bathroom and felt a "sense of terror" rush through him.
He was scared and didn't switch on the light, he said.
He was acutely aware of violent crime and had received death threats in the past, and had been a victim of crime in the past, he said. For the that reason he kept a 9mm pistol under the bed.
He said he got his gun and moved towards the bathroom, and screamed at the "intruder" to get out of the house and for Steenkamp to call the police. He thought she was still in bed.
He did not have his prosthetic legs on, and said he felt vulnerable for both himself and Steenkamp. For that reason, he said, he fired through the bathroom door.
He then saw that Steenkamp was not in bed, he said. That was when he realised she could have been in the bathroom, he said. The bathroom door was locked.
He said he went to the balcony and called for help, and then put his legs on.
He said he opened the toilet door by smashing it with a cricket bat. Steenkamp was alive inside, slumped over, he said. He took her to the bathroom, called paramedics and tried to carry her downstairs to get help, he said.
He tried to revive her but she died in his arms, he said."
I think the big thing in this one is where he says he "screamed at the intruder to get out of the house and then called to Reeva to call the police." Something tells me that Reeva would have screamed back "I'm in the bathroom you idiot - Don't shoot!"
I agree with what someone said above, that there are too many meaningless details to his story. I've found that most guilty people add too many details to their stories. The reason being, a guilty person only has words to prove their innocence while an innocent person has facts.
Okay, he says he didn't turn on the light. He didn't notice Reeva not in the bed as he got the fan and closed the sliding doors. Now suddenly, after he fired his shots, he can see that Reeva isn't in the bed? There are more holes in his story then in a slice of Swiss Cheese.
He is trying his best to concoct a story. The prosecution nailed it with finding out the bathroom door was locked. Reeva was running,and trying to hide.
Someone wrote we should wait until the real facts come out. We know the fact that they were a couple for only three months. Three months is not a very long time to become committed to one another and therein lies part of the failure to truly understand each other. Anything can happen in a highly charged emotional situation. I feel sorry for the girl friend for no one deserves to die this way (as if one had other choices).
He was so scared for his personal safety due to death threats and such, but felt comfortable enough to leave that sliding glass door in his bedroom open...
What a shame to be killed by a loved one on Valentine's day and then for him to tell the public a whole load of craps as if we are fools.How sad that the dead has no power,otherwise he will be creeping on his stumps by now.
I'm telling you she was a replicant!
Whats' not offical yet from the police there.
Bloody cricket bat found in Pistorius’s bedroom, lots of blood on the bat police said. Steenkamp’s skull was crushed.
“Steenkamp was wearing her nightie at the time. When the police inspected Oscar’s bedroom, they found her overnight bag and iPad on the floor. A holster for a 9mm pistol was found on Oscar’s side of the bed.”
So this proves she was there and he knew it..no doubt he's guilty.
mike277--
I've never seen this information before. Could you kindly link where you got it from.
Thanks.
http://www.citypress.co.za/news/exclusive-the-case-against-oscar-2
In that country,The well-regarded City Press, citing sources close to the investigation stated this.
This guy is as guilty as sin. My wife gets up to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night all of the time. If I hear someone in the bathroom, it's an automatic assumption that it's her.
Is he really saying that he didn't look in the bed, which is feet away from the bathroom before shooting into the bathroom door? This doesn't even make sense. The worst part is how this man's friends and family are defending this murderer.
His father claims that there's something "wrong with the world" because people want heroes to fail. No, we just don't want murderers and liars to succeed. Perhaps the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. He learned domestic abuse from somewhere.
His courtroom antics are disturbing as he works to gain pity and become the victim. If he crushed her skull with a cricket bat, I'd guess that Oscar is one terribly sick individual. More than that, he's lacking in character and backbone! I cannot fathom the Afrikaners sitting there and buying this tripe! It is what it is = murder. Shooting four times + the cricket bat makes it premeditated murder. Spin on that Pistorius! More important, my condolences to this young woman's loved ones.
I can't believe this guy thinks people are actually going to believe him. He says he had woken up & went to the balcony to bring in a fan & close the blinds - - all that activity must have made some noise, so if there really was an "intruder/burglar" hiding in the bathroom, that person would have heard this guy moving around & doing all that stuff and so they would have made sure to be absolutely silent so as not to give themselves away. So there is no way this guy would have heard any sounds coming from the bathroom if it really was an intruder. If he did hear sounds coming from the bathroom, then obviously she was in there either using the toilet or (probably more likely) crying over the state of their relationship. And he had to have known that.
hockeymom111, do you buy the idea that Pistorius closed the sliding glass door to the bedroom because he brought a fan inside the room from the balcony? I don't. Why is the defense even mentioning this detail if it's not a detail that must potentially be explained away "innocently?"
Possible answer: Neighbors had called earlier due to a loud argument at the home between Pistorius and his girlfriend. Neighbors might have noticed that the sliding glass door was open and then suddenly closed just before the woman was killed. If a man is about to kill his girlfriend, he might want to close that door to keep sounds from reaching "nosy neighbors" again and, or, perhaps Steenkamp had attempted to escape by way of the sliding glass door and he closed off that exit whereupon she then ran to the bathroom and locked herself in. I think it's doubtful that the sliding glass door and fan business took place while Pistorius was bumping along on his stumps. I think he was wide awake when he did that and with his "legs" on. Just another theory to think about.
Ok so let me get this straight...
Dude wakes up in the middle of the night and hears a noise from the bathroom. he takes the time to put on his legs, get his gun, walk 23 feet, and doesnt bother to confirm that his gf is in the bed or not or if she is in the bathroom or not... He just unloads 4 rounds in the bathroom door.
I can totally see how he thought it was a burglar (end sarcasm)
Bella,
In the USA, not sure about Africa, the burden of proving "beyond a reasonble doubt" is on the prosecution. The defense is trying to create doubt.
I believe the guy killed her in a fit of rage. He deserves death, but I believe he is facing life in prison.
Prison for the rest of his sorry life. This loser had the world and brutally murdered this beautiful woman so no one else could receive her gift of love. What a sorry self-centered, self seeking, self righteous, son of a _____. Anyone that stands behind and defends this creep is a monster same as he is. What a loser. I can hardly stand to look at him or those defending him. After he rots in prison then the real fun begins as God has a special place for creeps like that to suffer for eternity in the Lake of Fire. Read the Word. All of it. Meditate on it day and night. Then you will learn about the narrow and the wide gate.
I wonder if he knew about the Lake of Fire before he did this. To late now I guess, as you say, God already confirmed his reservation.
Sucks to be him, eternity is how long again?
I believe that is was reported that they found a baseball bat, they said her skull was crushed.
How is it certain that he's gonna "Burn in the Lake of Fire"? God already has a place in hell for him? Really? All he has to do is repent, accept Jesus as his Lord and savior then "voila!" all is forgiven and we have another angel in heaven. Isnt THAT how it works? Come on Christians you cant contridict yourselves that blantantly
I believe that God may forgive him if he confesses his sin, and is truly remorseful. However, coming up with this lame defense of "I thought my girlfriend on the toilet was a burglar" does not reflect well on the confessing/remorse part.
Yes Charles, that's how it works. We are all undeserving of God grace and mercy, but he died to give it to us because he loves us that much. We are messed up people with messed up ideas. Jesus is the only one who can set us free.
sorry i don't feel any type of sympathy for him just for Reeva's family. I hope they receive justice and that monster stays behind bars for the rest of his life.
I agree. A control freak loser! Has no respect for other people. No one except the dumb down racist OJ jurors would believe his excuse, uh no, she is white. He knew his girlfriend was in his safely gated home and he wanted her dead. POS for sure! The Casey Anthony jurors are just as bad! You POS jurors know who your are! You all make a bad joke and a shame of our justice system!
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL repent, repent, repent!
Obviously he is "guilty" as they were the only two people in the house. It amazes me how someone can "lose it" in a split second and commit a heinous crime. Let's say he really did think she was an intruder....then he would have shot her say in the kitchen or near a back/front door and claimed that he heard noises etc. To have shot her upstairs through a locked bathroom door suggests that some sort of disagreement occurred and he went after her in a fit of rage and shot her. They have stated that she arrived at his house in the evening prior so he of course knew she was there. It's not like she surprised him with a visit and waited in his bathroom for several hours. I just wish these murderer boyfriends would just fess up and say they lost control and did it. At least then her family would know something. I'm sure in time the truth will come out. Such a shame that two successful young lives are over with. May he rot in jail forever and may God watch over her family forever. Just senseless. This world is getting crazier each day!
I agee, he had to take the time to put on his legs in order to walk around the house, he did not state that he shouted who is it, or did anything to find out first if this was an intruder or not. This guy displays the attitude that he killed his girl who maybe wanted to leave him, and begin a new life.
After 3 months? On Valentines Day? The only reason she would have wanted to leave would be if he flew into a roid rage and started shooting at her.
After 3 months, the honeymoon is usually over, and you're starting to see your sweetie for who he/she really is. Valentine's Day is a stressful - often violent - day for a lot of couples. Most people do not murder each other, but there are a lot of fights. Just ask anyone who works at a nice restaurant and sees all the "loving" couples, or police officers who get more domestic violence calls on V-Day.
I suspect she did want to leave. Whether or not she wanted to leave him for another man isn't clear, but I don't know why she'd want to put up with his temper for one more minute.
Betcha that she was going to squeal that he was doping during the Olympics. what a piece of human garbage hope he goes to jail forever and has to live with what he's done.
This evil man has lost all credibility when he claimed it was an accident and he did not call the police first before breaking the bathroom door. What kind of burglar would shut him/herself in the bathroom ! He killed her in a state of rage possibly because she received an email from another "friend". Her iPad found in the bedroom is a strongest evidence for the prosecution among others. This case is so clear cut that he should be sent to prison for life in just a few days of tribunal. I am appalled that even the lawyers and others are still supporting this blatant murderer.
Yeah... a "burglar" in the bathroom. Taking a bath? Or maybe the "burglar" really needed to "go"?
It's insane. It must be torture for his family as well because apparently he's lying to them too.
It's haunting to hear Reeva's words in her reality show, almost as if she were saying 'goodbye' to the world. Maybe she feared for her life?
Sorry, that story doesn't have a leg to stand on.
Until the facts come out I will reserve my comments. But at first look this story doesn't hold water. I mean if he thought it was an intruder in his BATHROOM, he should have picked up a phone first then a weapon. Easy to keep someone contained.
Especially easy to keep someone contained if they've locked themselves in the bathroom! Plenty of time to have your gun ready while calling the police--and I'm sure plenty of time for her to say, honey, it's me in the bathroom. The fact that the bathroom door was locked says it all. You don't lock the door on your sweetie unless you're afraid of them.
This is the South African remake of OJ: he's bringing in all the "experts" and specialists money can buy.
Sure an intruder in the bathroom, where can they go, doesn't make sense, who would burgarlize a home and lock themselves in a bathroom? All he had to do was call police, hey I have gun, I calling the police, not this guy, it seems that he was afraid of her impending stardom and she was probably leaving him.
Absolutely agree... if the "burglar" is locked in the bathroom... turn on the lights.... call the cops and have your gun ready. Yell at the "burglar" that police are on the way and sit and laugh until they arrive. Nobody gets hurt and you have a great story for friends... Only a moron doesn't notice when the space next to them in bed isn't occupied when it had been a few hours before.... yeah, right...he was protecting her...
NARAIT, Lee and knowledge one..... I think you guys nailed it. My thoughts exactly on your comments.
I agree. I would be more likely to run and call police than confront the intruder directly in the situation described. What I wonder about is all of the people who claim that shoot first and ask questions later is the way to go. We seem to hear alot from all those who claim that they have a gun to protect themselves and just let someone even try to get in their house, or worse actually be in the house already, and they will be blown away. Now that someone in another country claims to have done just that, everyone is claiming that the very act of shooting first and asking questions later is wrong moronic etc. Everyone is saying how they would have checked it all out first. Called out, made sure. Hmmmm.
If he did murder her, which it seems he knew exactly what he was doing, I hope he spends the rest of his life in prison. I certainly don't feel sorry for him one bit. Sorry though that in the Olympics I was so proud of him. Yuk!
You were? I wasn't. Seems to me that his springy blades gave him an unfair advantage. The fact that he made the olympics pretty much proves that they aren't a DISadvantage. A little improvement in his "blade" technology and he's have been untouchable on the track! If he can wear these blades then why can't the other athletes wear mechanical devices on the bottom of their feet?
Not trying to defend this man at all, but not having a full set of legs and having to wear these contraptions and you think he had an ADVANTAGE? Really? Don't you think he would have much rather just been born with a regular set of legs? DUH.
Changing the subject a little, the prosecutor states that even if Reeva would have been an intruder, he would be guilty of "murdering an intruder". Since when is it MURDER when someone truly does break into your home?
But yeah, this guys story is weak, very weak.
Of course he would have rather been born with a normal set of legs. What has that got to do with my point? It obviously isn't a disadvantage if he can compete with olympic athletes. Why is it so out of the question that these blades could be giving him a slight advantage? They are pretty springy. Should whole body athletes be able to strap on mechanical devices to compete in your view?
Seems like he dosen"t Have a Leg To Stand On!!!
probably a drug, sleep incident....people can do and say all kinds of things with those 2 things in play.
very sad...too much death.....morals and values not alive anymore!
Here's a scenario : I come home from work and I hear someone in my house , I assume it's an intruder .....I don't go and get my gun and start blasting away at the bathroom door..... I quietly leave the house and call the police, since I already know "The Intruder" is already locked in the bathroom , I just call the cops, the cops come , and the cops go in and investigate . This idiot should go to jail and rot !!!
He never thought there was an intruder.
This is a tragedy either way. If he was in a rage due to drinking, steroids or just plain domestic abuse, the loss of this young women and his career is a great loss to many, mostly their families. If it 'was' an intruder and he did this out of poor judgement or possibly fear the loss of her life and again his career. They each are screwed either way. Her death and his incarceration for life. The world has lost a potential example of human endurance and capability. All very very sad.
Do they have the death penalty there? I hope not.. He needs to rot in a small cold cell for 50 years. Sleeping on a steel bench.
No. South Africa abolished the use of capital punishment in 1995. Prior to that, however, executions were carried out by hanging.
I think they should let him rot in a very small and stinky bathroom for the next 50 years.
Let his ass rot for the rest of his life.
I beat her in the head with a baseball bat and when she got up and ran to the bathroom I shot her through the bathroom door- by accident-several times.
You think this is a gun issue? This is a baseball bat issue, a steroid issue, and it a country where domestic violence deaths are 5x the rest of the world it's also a man issue.
Ban guns
Ban baseball bats
Ban steroids
Ban men (and often women)
sound silly?-yep. People kill people- they use whatever they have to do it.
I vote Steroids...
Yes, I do. Supposedly he hit her with a cricket bat and she ran into the bathroom and locked the door to keep him out. She would have been safe for at least a while in a locked bathroom...but he had a gun.
He shot her through the door.
Had he not had a gun, he might have cooled down long enough to realize that his rage was out of control. He might have come to his senses before he ended up murdering her.
He might have called an ambulance for her. Maybe if he hadn't owned a gun, she'd still be ALIVE.
if just somehow, someway it was an accident, he should still be held accountable for being irrational and so 'jumpy'. I don't think it was an accident, an innocent woman lost her life over what I think was probably 'roid rage. Unfortunately, he may get away with this, but he'll live the rest of his life in extreme guilt and his career is certainly over. So long, and farewell Blade Runner.
Kay, if I am the woman behind the door the might have isn't enough.
I do agree, Srich, this doesn't appear to be as much a gun issue as an all of the above issue, with rage being huge.
I'd be he wishes this happened in Florida, home of "Stand Your Ground." There it would take several weeks for him to get arrested, and only if there were a public outcry. Moreover, he would be out on bail in no time, thanks to money contributed by gun proponents who made up their mind about what happened.
Al, Al, Al..... what is it with you? You make some of the biggest asinine statements about gun owners here. So you are saying American gun owners are raising money for his defense? I think most gun owners would like to take him out on a "stump about" and leave him to the crocks.
AL KYDA, You are as evil and as logical as your screen name. You have no idea what you are talking about. But what else would you expect from an insensitive, uncompassionate, uneducated, bigot who enjoys emotionally harming others? Your screen name says it all. May you experience your own style of terrorism.
Al K,
More people contributed than just gun proponents. Some actually think he's not guilty. But since you've made up your mind, I guess they should skip a trial. I'm not trying to change your gun banning mind, but thanks for contributing anyway.
Pistorius' "sense of fear" doesn't add up. I find it hard to understand why he didn't at least yell from the other room "who's in there?" first.
The article said that other people confirmed that he had been receiving death threats. Would that make a person jumpy and perhaps overreacting with fear? Maybe. Would I call out if I thought there was someone trying to kill me coming through my bathroom window...probably not.
When there was a possible intruder in my home, first i find my wife who grabs me tight and we get the shotgun. She will not leave me and clutches to me as a shield. Then since i am deaf we slowly walk down the stairs and turn on the lights which is not a good idea but do not want to shoot visitors then if she grabs my ear i load a slug and if the robber has a weapon i kill him. You do not do anything till you find your woman. Pretatorious may be guilty since she was in a nightgown locked in a bathroom.
That's exactly what I think. He already has said he knew she was in the house. So if you hear something in the middle of the night, your first instinct and question should be - where is my girlfriend? Is she okay? If she's not sleeping next to you or whatever, then you're searching the house for her, and when the bathroom is locked, you call out her name.
I don't know what he did or didn't do, but his story doesn't really make sense. He also needs to answer the question of why the bathroom door was locked, although honestly, she could have been using the toilet and had the door locked to prevent anyone from coming in. It still doesn't make sense, though.
I agree with you guys. Who locks the door when using the bathroom if they live with their sweetie? Maybe if you've got kids and you're doing a bikini wax and you don't want to traumatize them since they never listen when you tell them you need some privacy...but I would think that most folks just close the door and leave it unlocked when they are in their own home.
To me, locking the door speaks volumes. She was scared of him.
Sounds like an extreme case of Jelousy amplified by Steroids...
Charge him as a handicapped person shooting a majority : women. In all truth, she is using her sex to steal from him.
If a woman shoots someone entering her house under the guise of an intruder, that someone is dead while she is celebrated for decades.
If a man shoots someone entering her house under the guise of an intruder, that someone is dead while he is vindicated for decades.
@Ian - Misogynistic much? What kind of comment is that to say Steenkamp was "using her sex to steal from him?" Please - how do you come to that conclusion? I guess you have an in with this couple and know all about their relationship, right?
BTW - Vindicated means to be found blameless. Is that really what you meant to say? I didn't think so.
Behold! Exhibit A of why I firmly believe women should be going their own way and remaining single.
To be honest, if a man breaks into my house I will shoot him dead. And everyone that knows me will be able to back up that I would never INVITE a man into my house unless he is the plumber!!! lol
Doesn't this trash know that the "NRA DEFENSE" , self defence against intruders, does not go beyond the U.S. borders?
The NRA? Why is it when a gun is used in a murder, even when it happens on a different continent, short sighted fools blame the NRA? And what is the NRA DEFENSE? Why don't you cite us a case, any case, where someone used the NRA DEFENSE?
Sad, Prayers for all families, the loss of a loved one is devastating, Often things done in Anger are regretted, We all know we have regret's for things we have done or said in Anger ! Except here words of apologies wont mend any feelings,of the Slain. so as you can probably tell by my comment i think he acted in Anger and will regret It Greatly !. In Earthly Court or Standing before God He will regret it ! Prayers for all Families involved.
London newspapers are doing a good job covering this story. They even have artist illustrations. No way he thought she was an intruder. In fact, he shot her once before she entered the bathroom. She ran into the bathroom to lock herself up. And shot three times into the bathroom door. The bathroom by the way, is just few feet from his bed- it's not that it was a guest bathroom in another part of the house.
Lisa....I've seen NOTHING that supports what you've written above. And quoting "London newspapers" is alot like quoting the Inquirer. This situation is already terrible enough without people like spreading disinformation.
london news papers doing a great job? i'm sitting in my living room and can figure this one out better then them. in fact he shot her once before she entered the bath? how do you know this? london newspaper said it? count how many bullets were fired through the door, now count how many bullets were fired. duh! how's this one: heard a noise in my bath, can't find my girlfriend who WAS in bed, door was shut while intruder is stealing my toilet paper? so i shot the intruder through a closed door, oops can't find the girl.
I never ever was a fan of this guy. He should have never been allowed to compete in the Olympics. With all that unfair advantage and, now drugs, he still was dead last. I was called cynical, and all kinds of names by people, when I said the same thing about Lance Armstrong, now I feel so redeemed.
I don't know if Blade Runner ever really had legs but I know that he doesn't have one to stand on now.
If he were to be granted bail, he would vanish. He's not crying for her, he's crying because he has been caught and is afraid of what will happen to him in prison.