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Stephane De Sakutin / AFP - Getty Images
South African Olympic sprinter Oscar Pistorius appears at the Magistrate Court in Pretoria on Feb. 19. His bail hearing continues Wednesday.
A South African judge will hear more arguments Wednesday before deciding whether Olympic sprinter Oscar Pistorius should be denied bail and sent to a prison where other inmates have complained about ghastly conditions.
A day after prosecutors and the defense presented clashing accounts of how and why Pistorius fatally shot girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp on Valentine's Day, the two sides will spar over where he should spend the months before a trial.
Pistorius arrived in court Wednesday wearing a black suit and blue tie. Prosecutors alleged that a witness heard a "non-stop" argument coming from the Paralympian's home before the shooting.
South African legal experts say that after hearing from witnesses, the magistrate will be asked to evaluate the strength of the prosecution's case and consider whether the double-amputee is a flight risk, a danger to anyone, or likely to intimidate witnesses or destroy evidence.
"Personally, my view is he should get bail because he's got a fixed permanent residence, has no previous convictions, and owns assets in the jurisdiction of the court. He's disabled and easily recognizable," said Steve Tuson, a law professor at the University of Witwatersrand in Johannesburg.
But bail could be a tough sell since the judge provisionally entered a charge of premeditated murder after Tuesday's hearing — where Pistorius claimed he fired into his bathroom in a panic over a possible prowler, while prosecutors alleged he calmly put on his artificial legs before he stalked Steenkamp to the bathroom to kill her.
Unless the magistrate, Desmond Nair, downgrades the charge after Wednesday's hearing, or the defense convinces him there are extraordinary reasons Pistorius should remain free, the trail-blazing runner is headed to lockup.
Since his arrest, Pistorius, 26, has been held at a local police station, but that's unusual and it's expected he would be transferred to Pretoria's central prison to await further proceedings, experts said.
"It's not too pleasant," Marius du Toit, a South African defense lawyer who has also been a prosecutor and magistrate, said of the central prison.
"I've represented people from overseas who were incarcerated in our prisons. One lost 20 kilos because the food and conditions are so bad. He said, 'I've been in prisons all over Europe and I've never seen anything like this.'"
A South African court officially charged superstar runner Oscar Pistorius with killing his unarmed girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp, alleging he shot her three times through a locked bathroom door. NBC's Michelle Kosinski reports.
Two weeks before Pistorius' arrest, six inmates from the Pretoria prison petitioned the High Court to improve conditions, painting a grim picture of daily life behind its walls.
Their complaints included up to three inmates in single-person cells, dirty mattresses with no bedding, sweltering heat and poor ventilation, no time outside, rampant drug dealing and violent threats from fellow prisoners, according to the Pretoria News.
The court has not ruled on the application, which the government planned to oppose, the newspaper said.
Du Toit said that Pistorius' high profile and disability could be grounds for some kind of accommodation if he is sent to prison, but added that officials will be loathe to give him special treatment because the decision to hold him at the police station before the bail hearing was questioned.
If he does wind up behind bars, he could be there for months before a trial and verdict -- which is delivered by a judge since jury trial were done away with in 1969.
Prosecutors and the defense team will be given time to marshal evidence before a trial date is set in stone, Tuson said.
Before the constitutional changes that accompanied the end of the apartheid era in South Africa, prosecutors could keep most of their case under wraps until trial. Now, they have to share all their evidence, Tuson said.
While U.S. trials are often delayed by endless haggling over what evidence is admissible at trial, in South Africa those decisions are made by the judge during the trial.
Tuson said the timeline from charge to verdict normally depends on the complexity of the case, the number of witnesses and how crowded the court docket is. Because the country's judicial system is so clogged, run-of-the-mill cases can face "horrible delays," he said.
Pistorius, however, could be fast-tracked due to the high-profile nature of the case. Tuson predicted the whole thing will be over in six months.
"Because of the media coverage, the state will push for this cases to be held as quickly as possible," du Toit said.
This story was originally published on Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:12 PM EST
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Guilty or innocent, no one deserves such horrible conditions. I'm sure he would be a major target in prison, too. People in the U.S. can be separated from the general prison population if they are deemed to be at especially high risk of abuse from other prisoners. He deserves some sort of protection if he stays in prison before trial.
They don't like woman killers very much in jail; they may put him in PC.
"Du Toit said that Pistorius' high profile and disability could be grounds for some kind of accommodation if he is sent to prison..."
Yea. Bottom bunk.
Helicohunter
So if you murder your defenseless girlfriend, you don't deserve "horrible conditions?"
Why the trolling?
Odds are if he's released on bail, he will commit suicide.
give him the same protection he gave her......hello......
This guy will never see a dirty prison cell. As an Afrikaneer he will be protected should he go to prison. Likely have his own separate accomodations.
The judge should NOT grant bail. His story is simply implausible. If I was the judge I would refuse bail and cite that statement as the reason. Once more of the facts come out his guilt is likely to become much more evident. Have seen nothing that would exonerate him and don't expect to see any such thing. This isn't the OJ case. It is much more cut and dried.
This thing keeps coming back to me:........There was an ARGUMENT....she must have INSULTED him about his PHYSICAL CONDITION......NO FEET. He felt that she made him feel INADEQUATE....(Physically)......"Like.....how can he make LOVE to her without HIS FEET? How would she feel about CLOSE INTIMACY? Could she handle it?
Or that he was an INCOMPLETE person.....sort of like a FREAK. Maybe he belonged in a CIRCUS, where FREAKS are ROUTINELY shown for the public's DELIGHT. Same reason people go to BOXING MATCHES....."For the BLOOD and GORE."
This is a WEIRD WORLD. ADMITEDLY.
Bull@!$%# they don't deserve it. Prison isn't supposed to be a nice place. That's why they call it prison.
A recent news article pissed me off. The one about OJ hosting a Superbowl party in his prison cell. It seems if you are wealthy enough, you can buy your own TV for your cell and also have other privileges other prisoners don't have. If you do a crime, you should suffer the same as every other prisoner and money should have no advantage to your situation.
Jail the bastard. His story holds no water. If proven innocent, he can sue for compensation.
If found guilty then he deserves a bunk with Bubba,
If he were not famous what would they do? Do that.
He isn't an American and he is guilty as hell. No one deserves to die the way his girl friend did! Let out he will only commit suicide and he doesn't deserve to get off so easily.
"Personally, my view is he should get bail because he's got a fixed permanent residence, has no previous convictions, and owns assets in the jurisdiction of the court. He's disabled and easily recognizable," said Steve Tuson, a law professor at the University of Witwatersrand in Johannesburg."
In other words what this guy is saying..the accused is wealthy so let him out on bail!
The intruder could have been a five year old child who was scared and lost and locked themselves in the bathroom (since he was thinking intruder anyway)...then what? You just shoot through door four times without asking who's in there?
GUILTY!!!!
I have to admit, I've found this story intriguing because of the cast of characters in it, so I've been reading it in multiple sources. From what I've read, the amount of bullets in her body (3), the amount of holes shot through the bathroom door and the amount of bullets found in the walls and the bullet casing found in his bedroom, his story doesn't add up. They think the first shot was fired in his bedroom and may be the wound that hit her in the hip. She fled to the bathroom and locked herself inside. He fired 4 shots through the bathroom door, one of which hit her in the leg. Then he bashed down the door and took the kill shot to her head, the wound in her hand was from her trying to protect herself from that final shot. His neighbors confirm that the shots from his home didn't go off all at once, but where spaced out, like one here, then a few more, followed by a final shot.
I agree. The white guy shouldn't be forced to endure the inhumanity of (gasp) prison. It just wouldn't be civilized.
Please! All the NRA nutcases should be catering to this man's defense. He thought he was threatened and he responded with his gun. Isn't that just what the NRA is screaming about. Guns save lives!!! His girlfriend might have been an intruder and he was simply defending his home. Case closed. NRA rules.
I'm sorry, but this statement from the article just stuck me as funny:
"I've represented people from overseas who were incarcerated in our prisons. One lost 20 kilos because the food and conditions are so bad. He said, 'I've been in prisons all over Europe and I've never seen anything like this.'"
We have here a connoisseur of fine prisons around the world, kind of like someone who visits and critiques the best and worst hotels - that's just too hilarious!
Jail
he will run
In Thailand and many other Asian Jails. If you do not have someone on the outside supplying you with FOOD, you will starve...
Plus - Do not expect any Care Packages from the US Embassy...
Many Thai DEATH sentences are commuted to 'Life in Prison', especially for the druggies. But their life expectancy is still VERY SHORT...
IMO - Let the Lawyers/POLICE get his money, then throw him in JAIL...
DO NOT do like the US & other Legal systems, where the RICH receive Bail and they stay FREE while the case is tied-up in Court for DECADES. Or things are settled out-of-court or copping a plea like the Kennedy's and the US Senator that KILLED the motorcyclist, while they were driving INTOXICATED...
I heard that he has already been moved to a handicap cell. I say leave him there and take away his "blades" so he can push himself around the ground like the low life POS that he is.
This guy is 100% guaranteed to flee if given bail.
Cut the GPS.
Private aircraft.
Outta here.
.
helicohunter, you are wrong! Guilty, he does deserve such condition, which are far more humane that the conditions he delivered to his victim. BANG, BANG, BANG, BANG! Dead!
Ralph J. Monasterio, you're an ignorant moron. I hope you or no one you love ever becomes disabled. If it happens to you or someone you love, I hope there are no morons like you to say such cruel things.
rmb22
Please! All the NRA nutcases should be catering to this man's defense. He thought he was threatened and he responded with his gun. Isn't that just what the NRA is screaming about. Guns save lives!!! His girlfriend might have been an intruder and he was simply defending his home. Case closed. NRA rules.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
.... the only people saying crazy stuff on this news discussion are anti gun nuts.... anybody sane, gun owner or not, knows this guy is going down for at least manslaughter and rightfully so....
Oldhamletman -- There's no charge for manslaughter in South Africa. It's premeditated murder or accidental homicide. That's it.
If they let him out on bail they should take away his prosthetics (ALL of them), make sure he gets no more of them (threaten all the prosthetists in South Africa) and let him walk around on his stumps. That way he would really be recognised if he tried to flee.
Otherwise, let him go to that nasty old prison to await his trial. He should have thought about how rough things are in prison before he blew away Steenkamp and made up his lame story. Creep.
Khan Khubla - you are so right and some things only need common sense to dot them up.
1. Neighbors heard noises
2. A man gets a woman first before anything, Right?
3. Why fire 3 shorts at an intruder, i think one is enough to let you know if they can fire back at you, Right?
4. People scream when they are short at, he could have heard her first scream, Right?
5. Why she locked the door if she noticed he wasn't in the bed when she got up? Obviously when she heard foot steps she would have known its him, Right?
6. When he went to fetch his gun which he keeps by the bedside, he could have noticed she wasn't in the bed, Right?
7. Why would anyone threaten him in the past? unless he owed some drug lord money or has a stalker, Right?
8. They say the house had panic buttons and security, why didn't he press the button first that will alert all the security and since he is famous even the police and swat squad will be there sooner, and besides this intruder has locked themselves in the bathroom, so they are contained, Right?
9. He must lack common sense shame...
10. She is not the first and wont be the last but it doesn't have to take a celebrity to bring awareness hence we all knew people in our lives or others that lay six feet under due to similar circumstances, Right?
In contrast to helicohunter's opinion, I believe the opposite...if he is guilty, this man deserves every ounce of deplorable conditions he has potentially coming to him. His girlfriend did not get a choice of whether she lived or died, or how painfully or peacefully she died, or the chance to say goodbye to her friends and family. Why then should he be presented any options as to his quality of life? Because he's fast??? Give me a break. An eye for an eye...if he's guilty of this crime, shoot him 4 times through a door.
On the other hand, woman killers aren't like child killers who are almost guaranteed PC, he may go to general pop!
Anyone that attacks and kills a defenseless woman is a coward. They will have fun with him in jail.
Yes...I DON'T believe his "excuse" that he "thought" a BURGLAR was in the bathroom. To me it looked like an ARGUMENT about his physical condition. It's only natural that people can be SENSITIVE about their physical shortcomings.
She made him feel very INADEQUATE physically. He wasn't enough for her. He LACKED a few parts. And when she saw how ANGRY that made him......she RAN to the bathroom....and LOCKED the door for PROTECTION. In other words......WHY WOULD SHE LOCK THE BATHROOM DOOR?
So....to "even" the playing field....he got his GUN......and for a VERY BRIEF MOMENT.....he started his SHOOTING SPREE. He "just lost it"....as they say here. And....to get even....he just HAD to shoot through the bathroom door. Because.....he couldn't get it at that moment in time.
Why do you shout?
Ralph J. Monasterio -- Why do you shout the same goofy "make-believe" over and over? Take an anxiety tablet, calm down and leave the discussion to the adults.
ralph j Monasterio You're a douchebag, you make no sense, you're obsessed with him being disabled and not being ableto sexually satisfy her. In your earlier post, you said something about freaks in the circus. This isn't 1915. you are a freaking idiot. Please get lost and stop the creepy nonsensical postings.
Judging from the talk of how bad prison is it would appear corruption in the government should allow him to buy his way out of this jam.
A gut feeling... seems like he should be locked up...
How can "FREEDOM" be an option?
See if Pistorius can join the prestigious OJ Club.
We'll see if the shoe fits.
Or the glove does not...
regardless of why, he shot her, and I think he should be locked up for life.
No, he should be killed immediately. Eye for an eye. He killed, he should be killed. No reason to make the prison more crowded when he doesn't deserve to live, even in the worst conditions.
This is just awful! Just awful! A beautiful kind women . . . and a accomplished athlete!
Shooting . . . is always the last resort . . . . and you must be sure of your surroundings! Could it be someone in the house, . . . or is it a criminal .. . . must be clear in your mind . . . always . . . .before shooting! I did have to wonder if he was using something to be able to perform so well with his condition. it did not seem possible.
What a tragedy. Two young beautiful peoples life destroyed because of what?????? Jealousy? Some stupid fight/argument? Control?
His story didn't make much sense to me. To many contradictions. He was not in immediate danger unless that "person" came out of the toilet area and he could actually see him/her with a weapon. Know what you are aiming at.
As far a prison conditions are concerned, the US is way to lenient (probably why criminals have no respect for the law), but inhumane conditions are not acceptable.
Better a ghastly prison than a ghastly six-feet deep hole in the ground.
We don't have all the evidence ....hope the prosecution does their homework for the victim!
Why is the media coddling this monster? He gave no mercy to his girlfriend when he shot her 5 times and then took a cricket bat to her. I am so sick of the celebrity treatment of this murderer.
No, it was bat first and then the shooting!
No, it was only four times.
Actually, they say he only hit her 3 times. They say the wound to her hand was because she was using it to protect herself when he shot her in the head. They believe that shot came after he entered the bathroom and took the kill shot. I've read that there were at least 5 or 6 shots fired. The first starting in the bedroom where they found a bullet casing on the floor.
Thanks Khan Kubla. It seems, he should stay in prison, until his trial...
Lol, sorry Isaac, we're all nitpicking! Your point is well taken.
Pis can now go pis all over himself.
I doubt it.
well, if the courtroom looks like that, you can imagine what the jail looks like. seriously, i had a friend from south africa once. his passport looked like it cost $1.50 to make.
As someone who has actually been to South Africa, I assure you Cape Town would put any average American city to shame in it's beauty. I'm willing to bet you probably don't even own a passport. Just saying. Stupid way to assess a country.
Ghastly prison!!! Ghastly prison!!!
OJ (1995)
A pity that such a beautiful person was snuffed out by some paranoid nutter with a handgun in his house trying to play Dirty Harry. Or at least that's his story.
Hmmm..why would a burglar lock himself in the bathroom?..why wouldn't a burglar just go straight to where the valuables are always kept?..OH that's right!!..different people keep different valuables in different places...and burglars don't know where all those places are!!../facepalm
Hmmm why would Oscar shoot through a locked door?....oh well we all know when we think someone is in our house we check to see if the burglar is behind a locked door first!...we check it to see if its locked..you know..so the burglar will know we are checking!..../facepalm
And i don't know about South Africa..but in America Burglars are usually armed :)...and dangerous..That's why they're burglars!!...defenseless burglar?...no such thing.../facepalms
I certainly hope Oscars defense is tearing a new one in the prosecutions argument..if not he needs a new defense team../facepalm
Do you know how scarce toilet paper is in South Africa? It's worth it's wait in gold! Protect the tp in PT at all cost.
@Lana - "Why would a burglar lock himself in the bathroom?" Because that's where the throne is!
I'll take "ghastly prison" for $200, Alex.
So what if he's "disabled" and easily recognizable? Plenty of people are already taking his side and would be willing to help him get out of the country. For a disabled guy, he sure can move fast. And he's capable of killing (I'm not calling it murder - yet). No bail!
I agree the handicapped argument is weak..with his fake legs and feet he looks pretty much like any other fella and can walk better than most able bodied men. Id have issue with the court starting this out as premeditated...something isn't right.
The courts unwillingness to hear all evidence before accusing him..the police officers at the crime scene able to say that there was no way this was self defense...seems there's too many ppl in South Africa willing to think the worst right off.
That's the most biased headline I've seen recently. The media is really fcuked up these days.
Tragic no matter how we look at it.The updated news said that she was shot 4 times,3 of those shots were through the bathroom door.If that's true then she was running into the bathroom to get away from him.That would be the reason for the premeditated murder charge.A beautiful young woman's life extinguished and a young man's life ruined no good reason.
Put Stumpy Pistorius in jail and keep him there. He killed a super-hottie.
The situation can't get anymore ghastly than being shot through a bathroom door.
I bet this guy gets out of jail because of who he is, it happens all time here in the states so why not there too? I don't know if it was an accident or not, but if it were just Joe blow he would be locked up for life..