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Rukmini Callimachi / AP
In this Wednesday, Feb. 20, 2013 photo, a young vendor waits for clients alongside woven reed mats of the type purchased by fleeing Islamists, apparently to camouflage their vehicles, in Timbuktu, Mali. An instruction on camouflaging cars is one of 22 tips on how to avoid drones, listed on a document left behind by the Islamic extremists as they fled northern Mali from a French military intervention in January.
One of the last things the bearded fighters did before leaving this city was to drive to the market where traders lay their carpets out in the sand.
The al-Qaida extremists bypassed the brightly colored, high-end synthetic floor coverings and stopped their pickup truck in front of a man selling more modest mats woven from desert grass, priced at $1.40 apiece. There they bought two bales of 25 mats each, and asked him to bundle them on top of the car, along with a stack of sticks.
"It's the first time someone has bought such a large amount," said the mat seller, Leitny Cisse al-Djoumat. "They didn't explain why they wanted so many."
Military officials can tell why: The fighters are stretching the mats across the tops of their cars on poles to form natural carports, so that drones cannot detect them from the air.
The instruction to camouflage cars is one of 22 tips on how to avoid drones, listed on a document left behind by the Islamic extremists as they fled northern Mali from a French military intervention last month. A Xeroxed copy of the document, which was first published on a jihadist forum two years ago, was found by The Associated Press in a manila envelope on the floor of a building here occupied by al-Qaida of the Islamic Maghreb.
The tipsheet reflects how al-Qaida's chapter in North Africa anticipated a military intervention that would make use of drones, as the battleground in the war on terror worldwide is shifting from boots on the ground to unmanned planes in the air. The presence of the document in Mali, first authored by a Yemeni, also shows the coordination between al-Qaida chapters, which security experts have called a source of increasing concern.
"This new document... shows we are no longer dealing with an isolated local problem, but with an enemy which is reaching across continents to share advice," said Bruce Riedel, a 30-year veteran of the CIA, now the director of the Intelligence Project at the Brookings Institution.
Tips and tricks
The tips in the document range from the broad (No. 7, hide from being directly or indirectly spotted, especially at night) to the specific (No 18, formation of fake gatherings, for example by using dolls and statues placed outside false ditches to mislead the enemy.) The use of the mats appears to be a West African twist on No. 3, which advises camouflaging the tops of cars and the roofs of buildings, possibly by spreading reflective glass.
While some of the tips are outdated or far-fetched, taken together, they suggest the Islamists in Mali are responding to the threat of drones with sound, common-sense advice that may help them to melt into the desert in between attacks, leaving barely a trace.
"These are not dumb techniques. It shows that they are acting pretty astutely," said Col. Cedric Leighton, a 26-year-veteran of the United States Air Force, who helped set up the Predator drone program, which later tracked Osama bin Laden in Afghanistan. "What it does is, it buys them a little bit more time — and in this conflict, time is key. And they will use it to move away from an area, from a bombing raid, and do it very quickly."
The success of some of the tips will depend on the circumstances and the model of drones used, Leighton said. For example, from the air, where perceptions of depth become obfuscated, an imagery sensor would interpret a mat stretched over the top of a car as one lying on the ground, concealing the vehicle.
Str / AP
In this Aug. 31, 2012 file photo, fighters from the al-Qaida-linked Islamist group Ansar Dine stand guard in Timbuktu, Mali, as they prepare to publicly lash a member of the Islamic Police found guilty of adultery.
New models of drones, such as the Harfung used by the French or the MQ-9 "Reaper," sometimes have infrared sensors that can pick up the heat signature of a car whose engine has just been shut off. However, even an infrared sensor would have trouble detecting a car left under a mat tent overnight, so that its temperature is the same as on the surrounding ground, Leighton said.
Unarmed drones are already being used by the French in Mali to collect intelligence on al-Qaida groups, and U.S. officials have said plans are underway to establish a new drone base in northwestern Africa. The U.S. recently signed a "status of forces agreement" with Niger, one of the nations bordering Mali, suggesting the drone base may be situated there and would be primarily used to gather intelligence to help the French.
The author of the tipsheet found in Timbuktu is Abdallah bin Muhammad, the nom de guerre for a senior commander of al-Qaida in the Arabian Peninsula, the Yemen-based branch of the terror network. The document was first published in Arabic on an extremist website on June 2, 2011, a month after bin Laden's death, according to Mathieu Guidere, a professor at the University of Toulouse. Guidere runs a database of statements by extremist groups, including al-Qaida in the Islamic Maghreb, and he reviewed and authenticated the document found by the AP.
The tipsheet is still little known, if at all, in English, though it has been republished at least three times in Arabic on other jihadist forums after drone strikes took out U.S.-born cleric Anwar al-Awlaki in Yemen in September 2011 and al-Qaida second-in-command Abu Yahya al-Libi in Pakistan in June 2012. It was most recently issued two weeks ago on another extremist website after plans for the possible U.S. drone base in Niger began surfacing, Guidere said.
"This document supports the fact that they knew there are secret U.S. bases for drones, and were preparing themselves," he said. "They were thinking about this issue for a long time."
Planting trees 'helps'
The idea of hiding under trees to avoid drones, which is tip No. 10, appears to be coming from the highest levels of the terror network. In a letter written by bin Laden and first published by the U.S. Center for Combating Terrorism, the terror mastermind instructs his followers to deliver a message to Abdelmalek Droukdel, the head of al-Qaida in the Islamic Maghreb, whose fighters have been active in Mali for at least a decade.
"I want the brothers in the Islamic Maghreb to know that planting trees helps the mujahedeen and gives them cover," bin Laden writes in the missive. "Trees will give the mujahedeen the freedom to move around especially if the enemy sends spying aircrafts to the area."
Hiding under trees is exactly what the al-Qaida fighters did in Mali, according to residents in Diabaly, the last town they took before the French stemmed their advance last month. Just after French warplanes incinerated rebel cars that had been left outside, the fighters began to commandeer houses with large mango trees and park their four-by-fours in the shade of their rubbery leaves.
Hamidou Sissouma, a schoolteacher, said the Islamists chose his house because of its generous trees, and rammed their trucks through his earthen wall to drive right into his courtyard. Another resident showed the gash the occupiers had made in his mango tree by parking their pickup too close to the trunk.
In Timbuktu also, fighters hid their cars under trees, and disembarked from them in a hurry when they were being chased, in accordance with tip No. 13.
Moustapha al-Housseini, an appliance repairman, was outside his shop fixing a client's broken radio on the day the aerial bombardments began. He said he heard the sound of the planes and saw the Islamists at almost the same moment. Abou Zeid, the senior al-Qaida emir in the region, rushed to jam his car under a pair of tamarind trees outside the store.
"He and his men got out of the car and dove under the awning," said al-Housseini. "As for what I did? Me and my employees? We also ran. As fast as we could."
Along with the grass mats, the al-Qaida men in Mali made creative use of another natural resource to hide their cars: Mud.
Asse Ag Imahalit, a gardener at a building in Timbuktu, said he was at first puzzled to see that the fighters sleeping inside the compound sent for large bags of sugar every day. Then, he said, he observed them mixing the sugar with dirt, adding water and using the sticky mixture to "paint" their cars. Residents said the cars of the al-Qaida fighters are permanently covered in mud.
The drone tipsheet, discovered in the regional tax department occupied by Abou Zeid, shows how familiar al-Qaida has become with drone attacks, which have allowed the U.S. to take out senior leaders in the terrorist group without a messy ground battle. The preface and epilogue of the tipsheet make it clear that al-Qaida well realizes the advantages of drones: They are relatively cheap in terms of money and lives, alleviating "the pressure of American public opinion."
Ironically, the first drone attack on an al-Qaida figure in 2002 took out the head of the branch in Yemen — the same branch that authored the document found in Mali, according to Riedel. Drones began to be used in Iraq in 2006 and in Pakistan in 2007, but it wasn't until 2009 that they became a hallmark of the war on terror, he said.
"Since we do not want to put boots on the ground in places like Mali, they are certain to be the way of the future," he said. "They are already the future."
Leave a Comment:
Shouldn't this be a title for a National Lampoon spoof ?
Tip #1, "Don't join al-Qaeda."
What Al-Quaida fails to realize is that there is technology that can detect body heat and have night vision capabilities. Our drones are very sophisticated. There is nowhere to hide. If you are alive and moving, they will find you.
The best defense is to renounce the Al-Quaida cult.
Jihadists don't bother about civilian casualties when they do suicide bombings or during Islamic holy wars.
Carpet bomb the seventh century desert mindset barbaric jihadists, when drones don't work!
For all who are laughing, drones will be coming soon to your own neighborhood.
If anyone has an up to date copy, please pass that information along to the rest of us.
Tip#21 rub mud all over your body so heat detectors can't find you, saw it on the movie Predator....lol
Tip #22 hide under water using a hollow tube to breathe...saw it on Gilligan's Island.......lol
you could hide deep in a cave but watch out for those giant spiders.......yup another episode of Gilligan's Island.
Debi i was wondering were to get a copy of that list myself. I love the matts on the roof of the car. The mud, well i already have that, it's called gravel roads. And yes a drone is on it's way to your neighborhood too.
It seems we are still giving away (USAF Colonel who worked the Predator program intelligence about "what we know" regarding Al Quida operations.). You don't think Al Quida pays attention to the Internet? Think again.
Of course they are going to Adapt, Improvise and Overcome - if they have a chance!
Once again the adolescents have to sling their bullsh!t manure no firsthand experienced uneducated non factual opinions all over Newsvine's "Get Smarter Here", further dumbing down anyone reading their ignorant opinions that belong on their own personal blogs.
Common Definitions from Dictionary.com:
"Fact, noun
a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true.
Opinion, noun
a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.
Opinion See Definition of Prejudice:
Prejudice, noun
1. an unfavorable opinion or feeling formed beforehand or without knowledge, thought, or reason.
2. any preconceived opinion or feeling, either favorable or unfavorable.
3. unreasonable feelings, opinions, or attitudes, especially of a hostile nature, regarding a racial, religious, or national group."
Example:
Wrong the International Al Quada Franchises, the Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban, Worldwide Holy Warriors of Islam, etc. DO KNOW and have been taking active measures to defeat the US High Tech with cheap No or Low Tech methods; just because you have no experience nor knowledge, does not mean that they are not doing things (that are successful). The simpliest that they are using is having their children or people near any bases act like WWII Coast Watchers, Spotters, with paper maps, magnetic compass, radio (or cellphone), homemade clinometers, pencils, etc. warning their parents of the estimated speed, altitude, direction of any jets, or drones.
The Millions of Holy Warriors of Islam as the "Proxy Fighters" for the Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran, they are also trained, equipped, armed, funded and backed by the Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran's Special Forces, Quds. The Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran is the "Proxy Fighter" of the Chinese and Russian Federation, so they have been receiving 21st Century Chinese and Russian Federation Military Equipment to even divert Airstrikes and Drone Strikes (Electronic Counter Measures, ECM). Even simple things like hot water filled human sized rubber dummies (that look like Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Jonathan-1982062) .
All of you posting uneducated personal opinions need to post those on your personal blogs (so that everyone can laugh at you), since you have nothing to add to the adult discussion of Newsvine's "Get Smarter Here".
Newsvine's "Get Smarter Here" is a Forum for Adults to Discuss Facts, not a Blog for Opinions.
From Newsvine's Code of Honor:
Address issues and arguments and refrain from making personal attacks.
Newsvine's primary purpose is to provide a place for people to share and discuss topics relating to the news.
http://www.newsvine.com/_nv/cms/info/codeOfHonor
Good news from the Assomatic Warrior.
David baby, rolling on the floor in LOL, get with the program, we really don't give a sh!t. Get a life, or maybe a job!!!! Discuss Facts, please!! Now your sounding like the White House, and we know how much we can trust them!!!!
david, you're absolutely right, though I believe you're wasting your time trying to set the likes of ItsSimple (his moniker is probably a reference to his mind) straight. Just because we have high tech gadgetry doesn't mean it can't be defeated via low tech methods. For example, I can remember reading how in Viet Nam, the Army had so-called "people sniffers" - detectors that sampled the air for nitrogen given off in sweat in order to ferret out the enemy; the Viet Cong responded by hanging buckets filled with urine in trees.
It is not surprising that Al Qaeda have responded to drone attacks by developing countermeasures - some effective, and some that are not.
You should know, how's Uranus feeling.
Proof below of the Adolescent Opinions (if you really did not "give a sh!t", you would not post anything):
How about this you go replace the "Boots on the Ground" that provide Terminal Guidance for the MQ strikes, and see how much you don't care about your own life (more likely your butt getting killed).
At the Republic of Vietnam that is why there had to be LRRP/Rangers Patrols as "Boots on the Ground" guiding all Airstrikes (too many times the North Vietnamese or Viet Cong redirected or misdirected US Airstrikes on US Ground Combat Forces or Non Combatant Friendly (Proven by their Actions) Vietnamese.). Some of their simple cheap methods to defeat the aircraft ground survelliance radar, on the ground motion sensors, visual, etc. were no tech or low tech. Like I mentioned before, the Vietnamese Civilians would watch the USAF Airbases and radio (travels faster than the jets) the estimated direction, altitude, speed of possible US airstrikes (including those from Thailand).
22 ways to leave your ass intact:
plant trees, steve
buy mats, matt
hide your car, star
One day, maybe sooner than you think, the American people will know what it's like to be tracked by drones. The process of systematically eliminating our rights has already begun - speed and stop light cameras are already in place and the Second Amendment under attack.
David said:
Newsvine's "Get Smarter Here" is a Forum for Adults to Discuss Facts, not a Blog for Opinions.
From Newsvine's Code of Honor:
Address issues and arguments and refrain from making personal attacks.
Newsvine's primary purpose is to provide a place for people to share and discuss topics relating to the news.
.........I think "discuss topics" would also mean that we can share opinions. Think about it, I'm reading this particular article to get the facts, not to point stuff out about the article. That'd be rather boring. Again, the vine is here to "Share and discuss topics relating to the news," not to bring people the news.
tip #23 you can run but you cant hide! for long anyway!
"Remember, you don't have to be able to outrun the drone, you just have to be able to outrun your buddy Aham."
Is it hard to run in a robe and flip flops without any underwear while carrying a rifle? Sounds menacing.
How can this be? Obama , our idiot-in-chief, said Al Qaeda has been decimated?!?!? I clearly heard him say this! What gives?
You have to figure out how to add cheetah-822547 and sweaver209 to your song (take off of 50 Ways to Leave Your Lover), cheetah-822547 and sweaver209 are going to the nearest US Military Base with Special Warfare, US Army Special Forces, USAF STTs, USMC MARSOC, USN SEALs, as Asymmetric Warfare (Insurgency, Counter Insurgency, Counter Terrorist Warfare) and call them cheetah-822547's "Assomatic Warriors" and sweaver209's "we really don't give a sh!t" about their "Assomatic Warrior" friends that died in Combat.
#23 - When making sweet love to your camel, remember that even though you long to look into her eyes, you can't lay her on her back, and go missionary.
Good Morning, RIght WIng Paranoids. Yes President Obama is going to unleash OMA on you any day now. THose suckeras coming down your chimney to steal your automatic weapons are part of OMA - Obama's Monkey Army, recruited and organized from Honduran spider monkeys, they're just about ready to come for your guns!! Beware! Beware!! BEware OMA!!!!!!
That's the point you are "think(ing)" like an adolescent attempting to justify opinions (a personal view, attitude, or appraisal without knowledge, thought, or reason.), instead of discussing Facts (of the Article);
or disproving the Facts of the Article with other Facts (NOT non Factual Opinions).
Another, without thinking (logic) adolescent attempting to justify opinions, instead of discussing Facts (of the Article); as the new Facts that are new News brought to the attention of the people, making Newsvine's "Get Smarter Here" Relevant, instead of the lies like Lawyers attempting to negate the Facts as Irrelevant and attempting to make your NO Experienced opinions (a personal view, attitude, or appraisal without knowledge, thought, or reason) relevant or more valid than Facts (Definition, Firsthand Exerience or Observation).
For Debi-1314897 : couldn't agree with you more that drones either full size or that of a hummingbird are in our skies, not filing flight plans (I wonder how many airline passengers will die because a drone hit them - of course it will be deemed "a mechanical error," and to make matters worse, some of the most corrupt - and least intelligent in the US (i.e. the police) will be able to fly drones...
Here are those 22 tips: Link: http://gawker.com/5986108/al+qaedas-22-tips-for-avoiding-a-drone-attack
1 – It is possible to know the intention and the mission of the drone by using the Russianmade "sky grabber" device to infiltrate the drone's waves and the frequencies. The device is available in the market for $2,595 and the one who operates it should be a computerknow-how.
2 – Using devices that broadcast frequencies or pack of frequencies to disconnect the contacts and confuse the frequencies used to control the drone. The Mujahideen have had successful experiments using the Russian-made "Racal."
3 – Spreading the reflective pieces of glass on a car or on the roof of the building.
4 – Placing a group of skilled snipers to hunt the drone, especially the reconnaissance ones because they fly low, about six kilometers or less.
5 – Jamming of and confusing of electronic communication using the ordinary water-lifting dynamo fitted with a 30-meter copper pole.
6 – Jamming of and confusing of electronic communication using old equipment and keeping them 24 hour running because of their strong frequencies and it is possible using simple ideas of deception of equipment to attract the electronic waves devices similar to that used by the Yugoslav army when they used the microwave (oven) in attracting and confusing the NATO missiles fitted with electromagnetic searching devices.
7 – Using general confusion methods and not to use permanent headquarters.
8 – Discovering the presence of a drone through well-placed reconnaissance networks and to warn all the formations to halt any movement in the area.
9 – To hide from being directly or indirectly spotted, especially at night.
10 – To hide under thick trees because they are the best cover against the planes.
11 – To stay in places unlit by the sun such as the shadows of the buildings or the trees.
12 – Maintain complete silence of all wireless contacts.
13 – Disembark of vehicles and keep away from them especially when being chased or during combat.
14 – To deceive the drone by entering places of multiple entrances and exits.
15 – Using underground shelters because the missiles fired by these planes are usually of the fragmented anti-personnel and not anti-buildings type.
16 – To avoid gathering in open areas and in urgent cases, use building of multiple doors or exits.
17 – Forming anti-spies groups to look for spies and agents.
18 – Formation of fake gatherings such as using dolls and statutes to be placed outside false ditches to mislead the enemy.
19 – When discovering that a drone is after a car, leave the car immediately and everyone should go in different direction because the planes are unable to get after everyone.
20 – Using natural barricades like forests and caves when there is an urgent need for training or gathering.
21 – In frequently targeted areas, use smoke as cover by burning tires.
22 – As for the leaders or those sought after, they should not use communications equipment because the enemy usually keeps a voice tag through which they can identify the speaking person and then locate him."
But, but, but hasn’t Barrack Hussein been telling us Al Qaeda has been decimated?
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
$70 worth of grass and sticks to confuse some of the most advanced military equipment in the world costing hundreds of millions of dollars.
The only difference is that our government would have gone for the brightly colored, high-end synthetic floor coverings, paid ten times what they’re worth and they still wouldn’t work.
Hmmmm, Barrack Hussein should be happy with this. Al Qaeda seems to be very ecologically minded. Not only will the trees help protect the terrorists the trees will also help global warming.
And now our government is feaverishly spending billions of dollars to find a way to overcome these high tech counter-measures the camel-jockeys are developing for under a hundred dollars.
Our government is a joke.
I'm sorry - I don't buy this list as is - some words are not even available in Arabic and whomever translated it did part hack job - part good job?
I may have been born at night, but it was not last night!
Tip # 1 - - When you hear a high pitched whistle coming your way ......
Infrared can't see through glass and night vision cannot distinguish good visual camouflage. We can be as sophisticated as our greatest technology allows, but there are still plenty of well-known weaknesses that can be exploited. Hell, for years there have been reports of militants hacking into unencrypted video feeds from drones flying over head. If they can see what we see, they can learn even better what works and what doesn't for concealment methods.
You can forget about Tip #2 ......
Al-Qaida and Taliban Survival Tip Number 1:
HIDE BEHIND WOMEN AND CHILDREN AT EVERY OPPORTUNITY!!
23. Drink a gallon of anti freeze and a pint of cyanide. This will deflect heat from your body and make you invisible. I wish the Al Quaida folks would add this to their list.
Drones are coming to a neighborhood near you - That may be, but knowing half of these hunters they would mistake those drones for geese and ducks and are liable to be shot down by them!
David 475776, appreciate your contributions on these threads.
@adam44 - funny the same thing could be said about the democrats and Obama using the children of Sandy Hook incident for that they are using the women and children for political advantage!
@JimSpence
No Jim, you're the joke. You and your ever so witty 'Barrack Hussein' nonsense. You know, with the 4+ years of serious butthurt you've been experiencing, it's really time to see a doctor for that.
What really makes me laugh is the fact your post reeks of whining about military spending and yet it's you and your Republicans putting the money into the military. Did you think we'd miss that bit of stupidity in your post? Ryan's attempt to remove the $498 billion in defense cuts from the sequester and his proposed $8 billion increase in defense spending? Oh yes, that sure looks like Obama is buying the new toys.
Just shoot them down with your AK-47.
JimSpence: You caught that, too!
50 Grass mats: $70
General Atomics MQ-9 Reaper: $36.8 million EACH
Hearing over-educated fools discuss how the American citizenry should not possess firearms and how they could not possibly defeat any potential takeover by the US government of its own people with these "low-tech rifles" and such, while watching the very same government being made a fool of by a group of goat herders and camel jockeys: Priceless.
How many BILLIONS are being wasted on these fruitless "ventures" that could be used BETTER here at home?
@ David
You posted
Yet I notice a lot of your comments are personal attacks. What, pray tell, makes you feel you are above those guidelines?
"Plant trees to avoid being spotted by enemy drones."
Go Obama! Way to give al Quieda a green thumb. Killing terrorism and global warming at the same time.
Chris, that may be true to an extent but not in the same way. Drone strikes and Sandy Hook (gun control) are really two distinct and different issues. I'm sticking to drone strikes for now.
The positive thing I get from this is that these terrorists are now spending a great deal of their planning time and brain power figuring out how to keep themselves alive.... Brain power that otherwise might be spent planning attacks on the U.S. This is one of the real positives of "taking the fight to them" (as I believe pres Bush said). Everyday now, these guys know there is a real possibility that this is the day they meet their 72 virgins. It likely also hurts their local recruiting efforts some. Would you join a club where you knew the clubhouse could be vaporized at any time? I just love the fact that these guys are now spending every day worrying about how to avoid drone attacks....
Exactly right Bruce! They're worried about their own butts getting blown up out-of-the-blue now, whereas in the past they could focus all their attention on blowing up others, including civilians and other innocents, a.k.a. "soft" targets.
It's called "Karma" and couldn't happen to a more deserving bunch.
You may think you're doing nothing illegal, but what good would that be dead?
Roger521043 Thank you soo much for the laugh I needed it!!! Have a great weekend.
It's ok to use drones. Better drones than sending brave American men and women into winless combat zones like previous presidents did. Remember, terrorists and Islamic fanatics in Iraq tortured and even beheaded our people. If there are Americans (many naturalized fanatics) who are targeted by drones because they threaten and kill our people, than to hell with them.
Chris from Yucaipa
Awwwwwww, did I insult your little limp-wristed sensibilities?
Does it bother you when I use Barrack Husseins name like this? Why. Isn’t that his name? I distinctly remember you Libbies having a rabid compulsion to insult George Bush as “Dubya”. But you fatuous illiterates thought it was so clever, so witty. Didn’t you Dude? Are you ashamed of his middle name being Hussein? Is he ashamed of it? Too fu**ing bad. Live with it, it’s his name.
Well, there you go again Chrissy. I am not a Republican. I’m a Reagan Conservative/Constitutional Originalist/Fiscal Libertarian. I know you have no idea what that all means because you live in your little indoctrinated cloud of Democrat vs Republican fairy tale. Grow up Chrissy.
There are no Democrats, they’ve been consumed by the disease known as Liberalism and Progressivism. The last real Democrats had JFK as their standard bearer, but you probably weren’t even born then.
There are no Republicans, they’ve been transformed into RINO’s indoctrinated by the establishment. Tammy Faye Boehner is their poster child and his minions are Mitchell et al. Of course you have no idea that that means either, do you California. Your dysfunctional parents, peers and teachers probably didn’t indoctrinate you into understanding that, you were too busy learning to be emotional, sensitive and learning how to put condoms on cucumbers.
Many of us Conservatives believe some cuts to the military are necessary, but you won’t believe that, once again due to your indoctrination and walking goose-step with anything having a –D after their name. Your limited and revisionist education of the Constitution doesn’t allow you to understand that one of those mandates is, “To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years”, or, “To provide and maintain a Navy”, or, “To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces”, does it?
You probably think all the entitlements and massive ineffective, inefficient and unsustainable social programs are nowhere to be seen in our great “Law of the Land”, don’t you. If you do, show me where they are in Article 1, Section 8. Please don’t insult yourself by citing the “General Welfare Clause”, the “Necessary and Proper Clause”, or even more ridiculously the “Commerce Clause”. They are all intended to strengthen the enforcement of what is in the Constitution, the Enumerated Powers and the Bill of Rights.
I know, that’s not how your “perfessors” taught you, that’s because they’re just as obtunded in Liberalism and Progressivism as you are now. You probably never read the Federalist Papers or any of the letters between Madison, Jefferson, Adams and Paine. That’s OK, you were probably too busy protesting for the poor little “Delta Smelt” that ruined the San Joaquin valley. Or some poor Spotted Owl. Neither of which you have ever seen or understand anything about.
I’m sure you believe that just funneling more of our tax dollars into more criminal government programs or more stupidly into our utterly pathetic “wars” on drugs, crime, poverty or illiteracy. Oh yeah Chrissy, they have worked so well haven’t they. Most Americans only read at an 8th grade level, we have more poverty today than we did in 1965 even after redistributing over $17 trillion dollars into it and you can buy just about any drug in most high school parking lots in America.
I won’t even mention the fact that The top 5 liberal strongholds in America are responsible for 58% of all gun related homicides:LA, NYC, Philadelphia, Chicago, and Detroit. Yep, you’re right Chrissy, government is so good at what it does, isn’t it?
Now go on back down in momma’s basement, break out your latest video game and pretend to be somebody, that’s as close as you limp-wristed Libbies ever get to reality. Better yet, go in your bedroom and delouse your closet before you try to save the world.
Your hypocrisy is only surpassed by your insignificance.
Try to keep up Spanky.
Jim Spence describes huimself as a "Reagan Conservative/Constitutional " Does this mean he thinks the President is entirled to unilaterallly make foreign policy and deal arms to our enemies, just so long as he can find some low level military guy to take the fall for him? His posts are such a mess of ideologicallly driven garbage and ill willl it makes me glad knowing how it makes him squirm to have an intelligent, decisive,left handed COmmander in Chief. I expect he is bettting on the DInosaurs for a comeback. Good luck with that cancelled check.
How to Avoid Becoming Drone Splash, For Dummies (the target audience, so to speak).
Although incredibly time consuming, the best defense to a drone attack is to travel with 4 wives, six kids and several hundred goats. No one like killing a family man.
Also, wear a burka whenever outside your compound so that the drone operators think you are a woman.
Since when are Mormons safe, idremhd?
Better will be like House of Saud, a strict Wahhabi ruler of Saudi Arabia, with 5000 princes and princesses with their huge harems.
Everyone will assume each one is busy doing "his/her passionate job"!
Few want do distrub such busy people!!!!!!
#22 "Build a wall out of babies and girls."
I hope everyone starts writing down these small tips as drone surveillance is increasing at home.
Read much Orwell lately, Josh?
We better hope that Senator Paul can pin Brennan down on this drone thing, which, so far, Brennan has stayed mum. Sen. Paul noticed a little detail that went unnoticed by many, and that is that the drones can be used on Americans right here in the U.S. not just on Americans over there. Drones may come to your town soon, so perhaps it is time to learn a few good tips. I thought of a couple, but am keeping them to myself. Others have too when things look like a bad sci-fi movie in America.
O.K., some may think this paranoid...but then why, why Brennan won't you give Senator Paul the assurance that he is looking for?
Rand Paul is a gutter-sniping fool and a blowhard.
Other than that, he's just a totally useless human being.
Empress just 'cause you are paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you. That said
I am not losing any sleep worrying about a drone attack on my house, I doubt pecan smoke BBQ pork is much of a terrorist threat.
Join Jewish, oil company or some corporate lobby!
Not many will bother.
Instead they will eager to listen to you!
dellusional? paranoid?...
IF anyone who had a reading comprehension better than a 12yr old read the drone bill... they would see it does leave in a clause it can be sed on Americans on American soil. There have been bills, that say if you do not agree with the government 100% you are a traitor. If you join a group that protests the government, you are a terrorist. (even if that group is peaceful)
there are a lot of bills... one that was signed that says a certain number of detention facilities MUST be built each year....
if you think sitting on your duff, plowing down pork is going to keep you out of the governments line of sight, just remember all the talk of the fight against fat folks the government has been very open about time to time.... taxing fatty foods, right down to sugar.
yet each time we the people, (not the rich) get a speech of how something is so great for everyone... on go the blinders, and up goes the glass of koolaid for a toast to such wonderful ideas... and yet because they live the life of a brainless sheep, that bleets to every free meal the government farmer has to offer... they dont see they are just being made fat (rightless)...
like for instance... Nobama wants to raise taxes... also wants to cut increases to medicare... (even tho he has been saying all along "republicans want to cut increase spending", and ran his election campain as a pivot point on the matter... not what is happening tho is it? lol.
JOSH,,,,,,,Are you a criminal? Who cares if the USA fly's over our homes? I for one do not!!!
MSNBCMFE - You may have read Orwell but appear not to have learned the lesson. Perhaps you should read 1984 again now that you're older. We all blithely accept 24/7 surveillance by our government in the form of stationary video cameras. Is really such a leap to think the government will mount them on drones and conduct their surveillance with cameras that move?
Over two years ago the FBI wrote new rules giving themselves the authority to investigate anyone they wanted by obtaining banking and other financial records, credit card statements, Internet usage and phone records; all without warrant or probable cause. This "assessment" is not subject to the approval of any court and does not even require oversight by superiors in the FBI.
Josh isn't paranoid, you're incredibly naive.
Don - Your attitude, "if you're not doing anything wrong, what are you worried about", will (has) led to the utter destruction of the essential liberty of the American people. Congratulations.
Good maybe they will catch some of those with guns that shouldn't have them.
WOW!!! What is truly horrifying on this post is the people like Dons views and MSNBCMFE, who have no problem with drones over their heads. This type of laxed behavior is exactly what will lead to eventual collapse of Democracy.
#21. Stick your head in the sand with your ass in the air, so the drone pilots will think you are two bald guys.
How many years have helicopters been flying over our heads?
Good point, but you can see and hear those (helicopters).
Too many people are watching "Person of Interest" and confusing it with reality.
Helicopters have flight plans and / or operate much lower than that of a passenger aircraft. It has been said that in a few years 30,000 drones will be in US airspace - some low, some very high and they don't have to file a flight plan - their have already been near misses between US passenger planes and US drones - over the US -
So, Don - I prefer that the drones are at least operated by intelligent people and in an intelligent matter. In McMansion suburbs ALL the houses look the same...., I also prefer not to have a passenger jet crash into my yard because a drone hit it.
In addition - the cost..... it is MUCH cheaper to fly helicopters!
I afraid, someday, an American Patriot will shoot down a drone over America. I just hope he gets away with it.
@grandpa - and how is a drone going to detect a person with a gun? Unless they are out using it, and how is that drone going to know if that person using that gun is a law abiding citizen? I mean for pete sake, it can't even tell the difference between a man and a women!
I guess you took me serious. We need to lighten up a little bit. The government isn't coming to get us for pete's sake
NaughtyMossy, please link to one of these imaginary bills you are citing.
What are tips for the firewood gathering women and mud hut dwelling families that seem to get annihilated here and there?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/sep/16/afghanistan-nato-airstrike-women-killed
That was an airstrike (i.e. by jets), not a drone strike.
#20. Tie the fronts of your robes together to make a trampoline that will catapult the missile back toward the drone.
This article is not true. I promise.
You're probably right. The Guardian news rag laps up every bit of Taliban propaganda they can get their hands on.
How many Hellfires DOES is take to get to the pink squishy center of a dirty 4 wheel rolling sugary lollipop.....Still only one I bet.....
sierra76: You think that you are funny? You must be an American sociopath. Another reason msny of the worlds' people hate your country.
@ DOU: Who appointed you spokesman for "the world's people?"
Adam, we had a vote, you must have missed it.
#19. Create an impenetrable barrier of self righteousness like DUO wears.
sure thing joe - sure thing. IF the entire membership of AQ were to be vernichtert in one fell swoop, I'd cheer (not be appalled)
I guess I did, lol.
If they're sharing info on how to avoid drones like this - the drone campaign is obviously working. Al-Qaida knows their best Ally is garnering negative American public opinion. They do that by killing our troops... But the drone attacks take that ability away, which in turn means public opinion is not swayed as easily.
I hope we send a million more drones over their asses, so they have no place to hide.
What they are passing to the rest of the International Al Quada Franchises is the successful methods that they have previously used to Defeat the US "Drone" Campaigns.
So now the US has a million pilots to fly the million drones. You could have a million and one drones, does not matter their are over 1.5 BILLION Islamic Believers Worldwide that are required by current Islamic Laws to support the Millions of Holy Warriors of Islam Worldwide.
So what do you suggest we do David, roll over and play dead? In that event it will not be playing dead for long.
I just wonder how long it's going to take for them to buy their own remote control planes and start dropping them here. There is even a u-tube site in Arabic showing very large models, including a C17 jet powered model plane.
Not to worry, drones are easy to shoot down if you possess jet aircraft.
Sue
They won't need to buy their own. Our own government is putting them all over our airspace to spy on us. All they have to do is tap into the wireless link. It just becomes a matter of hacking. If China can break into our Defense Department and Banking servers from China - Really hard is it going to be for those who want to to hack into a remote wireless vehicle either passively to monitor the feed and then aggressively to fly the aircraft into a daycare.
At least we know then that Congress will step in and make it illegal for a citizens to own model airplanes.
A government study should be made to check on homicides by model airplanes - It is about time.
Live by the sword, die by the sword.
Submit to terrorists, live like slaves.
Adam44 - please tell your horror story of being imprisoned /hurt/ yelled at/ had a shoe thrown at you ...in Yemen, Somalia, Iran, Iraq, Pakistan and/or Afghanistan....
Oh, right, you have never met a person from any one of these countries yet you consider them all terrorists? Well, when the US is under Martial Law I guess you will enjoy the situation, curfews, random house searches..... etc...
I submit to neither terrorists nor tyranny.
Where did I ever say or suggest that I consider all people in Yemen, Somalia, Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, or Afghanistan, to be terrorists? I didn't, nor is that what I believe. In fact I think that most people in those countries are VICTIMS of terrorists. Better luck with your next smear attempt.
Now THAT I can respect. I just don't see drones as the giant threat to liberty that some others do.
Adam
Your assuming that our politicians, police and military leaders have the best interest of USA citizens at heart.
Based upon Congressional and Presidential track record are you really sure about that? Do you really think Kent state can never happen again.
I'm an old Marine and I'll be honest any soldier's first duty and inclination is to follow orders without question - It takes a whole lot of moral courage to disobey an Immoral Order. The consequences are going to be Court Martial and there is no guarantee one will win the day. And sadly most everyone in this country no-longer believe in morals any longer. To most there are no absolutes only what society says is acceptable - That's not morality that's peer pressure. Morality does not exist without a standard beyond human contestation (i.e. God) if humans can negotiate a moray it is not a moray it is at best an ethical agreement. (and yes moray is a real word it is a single moral precept)
1) We now have laws (NDAA) which allow the government to detain citizens indefinitely with no charges needing to be presented to a court of law.
2) And we already summarily execute/assinate American citizens without even a pretense of due process. The 3 American citizens Obama's death squad executed could have been tried in absentia, at least even if a kangaroo court it would have given appearance of adhering to the Constitution. Obama didn't even think he had make a pretense. If an American citizen can be assassinated overseas - exactly why is geography a problem. Even the police don't try to make a pretense any longer. Christopher Dorner was set on fire - Cops know all they have to do is pop a tear gas canister and follow it with a flash bang and the place is going burn. They were even recorded on police scanners planning exactly that. Cops refer to tear gas grenades as "burners"
And can I hear the argument why should the Cops have to place themselves in danger.
1) Well actually they didn't all they had to do was wait him out for all intents and purposes, they had him trapped. And since they considered him alone they could have use nuisance tactics to make him extremely uncomfortable until he took his own life or gave up. They just wanted to exact their revenge.
2) If Cops don't want to accept the inherent dangers that go with the job; real simple don't be a cop, no one forced you.
How many of our soldiers go into harms way many more times in much worse conditions for a hell of a lot less pay. And we even expect our soldiers not to kill indiscriminately.
Jeff, didn't see your posts until now. Most people have gone on to other stories now. If you're still around I might engage. You sound like a thoughtful guy. The Chris Dorner thing is different from drones so I probably wouldn't say much about that.
Chuckle all you want folks. I'm downloading this list because I do not trust obama. Americans should learn how to shoot these down not just avoid them.
The sky is falling! The sky is falling!
Still in lust are'nt ya MSNBC???
MSN is a White House employee just trying to help keep the issue muddy and his boss white as snow.
#18. Form a quick "Desert Synchronized Sand Dancing Team" that would make heart shapes, flowers, and peace signs.
This subject brings out all the loons on the far left and the far right. They can agree on something at long last, united in their paranoia.
So naive...
Lose your (legitimate) paranoia - gain tyranny. Maybe not in our lifetime, but sooner or later.
The individuals in that vehicle are the type that shoot 14 year old girls for speaking out about wanting an education.
sierra, people like DOU don't care about any of that, only that the terrorists are denied "due process" when attacked by drones. Some people just can't come to grips with the fact that we are at war. They are trying to kill us (as they did on 9-11), so we are trying to kill them. We finally found a pretty effective tool -- drones -- to keep them pinned down in remote areas and eliminate their leaders. For people like DOU who hate America, this is a bad development.
So hate DOU right back. I really do not care if he likes us or not. Get obama out and we become the big guy on the block again looking out for our own interests. @!$%# the UN and the rest of the world.
also know as POS's....( these barbarians who shoot little girls)..
Adam 44, I don't disagree that it is an effective tool against these terrorists. Unfortunately, I don't know if the government knows when to stop and consider their obligation and sworn oath to the constitution, and the fact that they have no place over the USA. Not to mention the fact that they seem to ignore the fact that it is a never ending endeavor that alienates the world to the USA.
Okay well you sound pretty reasonable. You seem most concerned about drones over America spying on citizens, maybe even eventually targeting and assassinating American citizens on American soil. If I thought that was going to happen then I'd be right there with you on red alert, ready to fight. I just don't see that. Is there some role for domestic drones? Maybe. How about drones on 24/7 patrol over our borders, monitoring illegal incursions. Possibly some drones replacing helicopters or aircraft in pursuit of (monitoring) criminals racing from a crime scene. Or positive roles such as locating lost tourists/hikers/climbers at the Grand Canyon or on Mount Rainer on any number of like situations where drones could thoroughly survey large areas looking for that needle in a haystack that could SAVE some human lives, not take them.
What i'm saying is that drones don't need to be this BIG, SCARY, BOGEYMAN that's going to be a key weapon for enslaving everyone. I think we can raise up our voices together and put a stop to stuff like drones pinpointing speeders on the highways, or spying on individuals who may have unpopular opinions.
So I'm just not all that concerned about domestic drones. There are lots of different kinds of drones too. The few over America are not going to be armed with missiles, waiting for ground commands to blow up dissidents. That's Hollywood and Left/Right wing fiction-fodder, in my opinion.
#17. Assemble into a big gay mass of men on men. The drones can't bomb gays, that would be a hate crime!
Well this is all common sense. Duh.
Yeah. "Hide under a tree to avoid detection." Wow! Genius!
The Right in America is stuck in a circular firing squad and thanks to idiots like Wayne LaPierre, they're in possession of an endless supply of fuly-loaded magazines.
Genuine frontier gibberish
Sill got that Deer in the headlight thing going on MSNBC???
MSN gets bonus checks for every comment they can make to please the liberal democratic (socialist) party.
MSNBCMFE,
Someone needs to remove your and the rest of the Demoncraps guns (penises) and high capacity magazines (testicles) so that all of you cannot procreate anymore imbeciles.
This Is My Rifle This Is My Gun
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kU0XCVey_U
President Obama's attempt to use the United Nations to Force US Gun Control (take away 2nd Amendment Rights):
Democrats Oppose Obama-U.N. Gun Control Treaty
http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/washington-whispers/2011/07/26/democrats-oppose-obama-un-gun-control-treaty
The current Demoncraps being the Fascist NAZI (National Socialist Workers Party, a Political Labor Union) Party of America:
"President Obama, this is your Army. We are ready to march. Let's take these son of b!tches out and give America back to an America where we belong," US Labor Union Leader Jimmy Hoffa Junior during President Obama's Reelection Campaign. US Democrats demanding the elimination of the Republican Party and anyone stating views contrary to President Obama and the Democratic Party.
President Obama addressed the crowd shortly after US Labor Union Leader Jimmy Hoffa Junior. US Labor Union Leader Jimmy Hoffa Junior not arrested for "Terroristic Threatening of US Citizens", "Conspiracy To Commit the Murder of US Citizens", "Homegrown Domestic Terrorism Against US Citizens", etc..
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/09/05/jimmy_hoffa_at_obama_event_on_gop_lets_take_these_son_of_bitches_out.html
"Chancellor Hitler, we are your Army. We are ready to march. All Loyal German's Must take back Germany from the Jews". Chancellor Hitler's Brown Shirts, Sturmabteilung, Armed Paramilitary; and his Political Labor Union, National Socialist German Workers' Party, Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei aka NAZI.
Chancellor Hitler Ordering the elimination of other Political Parties (and did by Armed Force of his armed private Army, 1933), US Democrats demanding the elimination of the Republican Party.
DICTIONARY (Bing)
"fascism
Definition
fas·cism
dictatorial movement: any movement, ideology, or attitude that favors dictatorial government, centralized control of private enterprise, repression of all opposition, and extreme nationalism"
Dictionary.com:
"fascism
a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism."
#16. Smoke a few more poppies and put on some "Damn Yankees".
So Al Qaeda is getting more organized and coordinated??? ....is this the "Arab Spring" Obama was speaking of?
You got that right. He was for them before he was against them!!! Sounds stupid, like something Nancy Pelosi would say!!! Hey MSN, comment on this!!!!!
Is that a rug with sticks poking out of it driving down the road? The first time they tried to blow up a bus they burnt their lips on the tailpipe, but their getting better.......I wonder if they make these camo rugs for camels and donkeys? New meaning to the term al-Qaeda party hat. How do you hide 37 members of al-Qaeda? Sweep them under the mat..........I guess it was by trial and error not to buy the synthetic bright hunters orange rug.........maybe we could get the grass they make these mats out of to grow forming a natural bulls-eye. Stay away from "place missile here" rugs.......lets see dead grass is cold, missles seek heat, better put some in the tailpipe......
No, no, no; you guys (and Al Queda) don't get it. The latest sensors are multi-spectral. Can see through things with millimeter wave sensors, for instance. You can run, but you can't hide...
You can mock a known working cheap solution all you want, as an improvised camouflage net (instead of hundreds of thousands USDs for a US Military Camouflage Net) of woven leaves (not a rug). Results matter, not your uneducated no firsthand experienced opinions. We also know that here they have been using these woven leave mats to put over branches over ditches, then covering the mats with dirt or sand.
No, no, no; YOU don't get it. Al Quada using cheap improvised crap to defeat multi million to bill USD "high tech" with low or no tech commonly available sh!t; as (adaptive) Asymmetric Warfare.
Some Defense Contractor sells you a term like "multi-spectral millimeter wave sensors" so that you buy more sh!t, without even knowing how that even works (and limitations), or how well that did NOT work at Libya; and your uneducated arse opens up your wallet or purse and forks out Billions USDs drooling all over yourself; and what do we (US Military) end up with more crap previously proven NOT to work.
http://money.msn.com/investing/11-things-wrong-with-congress
Fountainheads of Islamic extremism on rampage all over the world are our "strategic allies", Saudi Arabia and Pakistan.
Mali is the latest example.
Followers of Islamic cult, especially House of Saud and other Sunni ME rulers inspired and funded Sunni Islamic radicals and militants (al-Qaida, Salaffi, Wahhabi, MB, Taliban and other label ones), are fast marching backwards to their seventh century desert tribal days.
They are indulging in rapings, lootings, killings and genocides of non-Muslims (Darfur, S. Sudan, Nigeria and spreading like wild fire in many regions and Muslims (Libya, Yemen, Mali, Iraq, Syria, Pakistan, Afghanistan and other places).
Pakis and Sunni rulers of Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Kuwait, UAE and other Sunni Arab League nations are responsible for 80 percent of world problems including economic ones.
Examine the devastations with Iraqi wars and now sanctions on Iranian oil and the resultant oil price manipulations.
They are making the lives of their own people also miserable by their Islamic religious madness to the intolerable levels.
They are doing worse acts in non-Muslim nations starting from the US.
For world peace and economic stability erase Saudi Arabia and Pakistan out of the map.
I KEEP TELLING YOU FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAMIC SHIA Jonathan-1982062 STOP YOUR (SPAMMING) TAQIYA OF TELLING THE US TO MURDER THE FEW REMAINING US ALLIES.
FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAMIC (almost Shia) Al Quada International Franchise was created as Anti Sunnis (Moderate Liberal, as much as allowed by Islam) US Ally Saudi Arabian Government.
Just because they originated in Moderate Liberal Sunni Nations does NOT mean that they are Sunni. Their ACTIONS determine if they are Sunnis or Shia (Fundamentalist Islam).
Sunnis: Liberal Moderate Interpretation of the Holy Koran (Quran). Belief in Fiqh (Logic) as Law.
Shia (plural Shiites): Fundamentalist Islamic Interpretation of the Holy Koran (Quran) Only all other Interpretations are Heresy, as to why they kill the Sunnis. Belief in the Shia (Sharia) Laws and the Hadith (Ancient Islamic Customs) Laws.
The Fundamentalist Islamic Believers (Shia, Shiites) Believe in the Holy Koran's (Quran) 109 Suras of the 114 Suras (majority) Calls to War Against the Christians, Jews, Unbelievers. Those Islamic Believers that do not participate are subject to the Death Penalty. Collaborators to the Christians, Jews, Unbelievers are subject to the Death Penalty "To Die a Horrible Murdering and Dwell in that Firey Place".
This is where the Western World especially the News Media f**ks up at, by not listing who is Fundamentalist Islam and instead uses misnomers like "conservative", "radical", "extremist" Islam. As well as the Western Limiting Term of "Religion" regarding the Islamic Belief, as for Fundamentalist Islam, Islam is ALL, All Politics, All Religion, All Culture, All Ways of Life, All History, All Customs, etc. that supercede all the politics, religions, cultures, ways of life, history, customs, etc. of all other nations.
It is also a BIG mistake for the Western World to marginalize the numbers of Holy Warriors of Islam as funded by the Trillions USDs per year of Mandatory Islamic Tithes by saying "Radicalized", "Extremist" as if their are only a few hundred and not the almost Millions (update: Hundreds of Millions). As these Mandatory Islamic Tithes of Trillions USDs per year allow the Holy Warriors of Islam to live a better life than scratching a stick in the ground growing food to barely survive, and they also are praised by the Imams at the Mosques Worldwide as Islamic Superstars doing Allah's Work as the Hand(s) of Allah.
The use of the minority of 1.8 million Islamic Believers living at the US as an example is also a mistake, as they do NOT determine what Islam is or is not for the Majority of over 1.5 Billion Islamic Believers Worldwide.
A common trait of Fundamentalist Islamic Believers (Shia, Shiites) is to shoot the Sunni in the face while the Sunni is attempting to Negotiate ("Empty Words"), as the Fundamentalist Islamic Believers (Shia, Shiites) believe in what works, "The Dead Do NOT Complain (like Old Women)". This is why there are less and less Sunnis ("Moderate", "Peaceful", "Liberal") Islamic Believers and more Fundamentalist Islamic Shia (Shiites).
examples: The Fundamentalist Islamic Al Quada was originally created by Fundamentalist Islamic Osama Bin Laden to Overthrow the Sunnis US Ally Saudi Arabian Government. And in response to President Clinton's Failed 1998 Operation Desert Fox, resulting in the US condemned as the Great Satan and in retaliation Osama Bin Laden starts planning his 9/11 2001 Attacks of the same targets of his previous 1993 First World Trade Center Bombings.
Pakistan is controlled by Three Factions: 1. The US Ally Pakistanis Government and most (not all) of the Pakistanis Military. 2. The Fundamentalist Islamic Pakistanis Citizens, required by current Islamic Laws to support the Holy Warriors of Islam. 3. The Pakistanis Inter Service Intelligence (ISI) Agency (some are Pro US and some are not Pro US).
So sure Jonathan-1982062, dick over the US Ally Pakistanis Government and most of the Pro US Pakistanis Military, and let the Fundamentalist Islamic Pakistanis Citizens and the Pakistanis ISI Agency take over; you do know that they have also have many small tactical nuclear weapons (120mm diameter x 1 meter, easily smuggled from Mexico into the US, each capable of leveling all of Los Angeles, New York City, Seattle, Chicago, etc.) as well as large nuclear warheads with the missiles also.
F**k over the long time US Ally Government of Saudi Arabia and let all the Fundamentalist Islamic Believers at Saudi Arabia take over. You believe that the Fundamentalist Islamic Believers will continue to provide Oil to the US Allies (making less Oil available on the World Market, translation: US Drivers paying $40 per gallon, as already not so good after President Obama's Failed Foreign Policies resulted in the Loss of the Iraqis Oil to the Allies of Iran, the Chinese and Russian Federation; made the Libyan Oil of Strategic Importance to the US European Allies, also lost to the Ally of Iran, the Chinese.).
IT IS THEIR ACTIONS THAT DETERMINE IF THEY ARE FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAM, NOT THEIR NATION OF ORIGIN.
Jonathan-1982062,
****************************STOP YOUR TAQIYA Jonathan-1982062**************************
david: As the earth is flat as per you, you don't need some sensible reply!
Uneducated/half-educated like you will start doing English corrections too!
I AM Muslim. I consider myself Muslim...Sunni/Shia-- either doesn't really matter to me too much though parts of Shia I don't like-- so let's just say Muslim I suppose as good description if you HAVE to peg me somewhere. I sorta feel more like just Muslim. I AM a revert to Islam after being raised Southern Baptist my entire childhood and involved in the church until my late 20s. I always felt there was something wrong with what I was taught...that Jesus (Isa in Arabic) was a Prophet, a teacher, a healer....not the son of our Lord. So when I started reading about ALL the world's religion searching for what was true, reading the Holy texts and read the Quran--it was like a light bulb came on! This was what I had always believed.
A Muslim is one who submits to God's will. IF you go to the mid-East you will see God called Allah by both Christians and Muslims (fyi).
Okay so that is where I am coming from, okay?
So what I have learned from my experience over the past decade interacting with both Sunni, Shia, as well as other sects of Islam is this:
We all believe in 1 God. HE is the God of Ibrahim (Abraham), Adam, Moses, Noah...Jesus, peace and blessings be upon them! All the same Prophets (and more than I am listing here) that I was raised knowing. Here are just 2 of the key differences about the Prophets though are these:
1) Eve is isn't guilty of leading Adam, peace and blessings be upon him, astray! Did you know that some of the Catholic Bibles actually put EVERY bit of blame on her? Bad enough that Christian Bibles want to blame her and say that labour pains are a curse on her due to that...Islam teaches that it was a mutual decision to go astray and that only when they repented did they receive the Mercy of our Lord.
2) Another one of course is with Jesus, peace and blessings be upon him,-many people do not think Muslims believe in him or his holy birth and his mother Mary (Maryam in Arabic), peace and blessings be upon her. In fact she is considered 1 of the 4 best women in Islam!!!
Its really not hard if you are interested in learning more about how they compare just to search it online.
Anyways, so the sects all believe this same parts. The difference come in on WHO the Last Prophet, Prophet Muhammad (saws), wanted to be the next leader. Sunnis feel that it should be the most knowledgeable as well elected by the leaders of Islam...which is why they think that Abu Bakr was the rightful 1st caliphate. Whereas Shias, mainly agree that the Prophet's son in law Ali (married to another of the greatest women in Islamic history, his daughter Fatimah), who later became the 4th Caliphate should have been the rightful caliphate. That was the start though of the 1st great fitna in Islam. Never before had Muslims fought one another but this all led to the Prophet's (saws) own grandsons' deaths! He knew this before he ever died.
One of the interesting points about Islam is that the Prophet,saws, said that Islam would break up into 72 different sects before Judgment Day....think that is correct number....
And Islam does NOT teach Jihad the way most people think. It's to be waged man against man not against women and children--wasn't to destroy lands, and when the enemy stopped fighting you, you were required to stop waging war against them also. Muslims lived with both Christians and Jews, all practicing their own religions without issues. The only time religion was an issue was if someone worshipped idols just as it was with the Prophet Ibrahim, peace and blessings be upon him.
We all share a common thread--the Jewish, Christian and Islamic faiths. Instead of hating one another, why not look to where we have similarities and try to take that common ground, accept one another for those positives...and just agree to disagree on the rest?
On Judgment Day, no matter what religion you are, we each will be called to account for our good deeds as well as our bad.
Now after ALL that--Do I think I am conservative? Umm...maybe. I wear hijab. No by force. By preference. I didn't for years but felt the nagging need to from deep within. I do feel Quran should be #1 source to guidance, followed by Hadith (like most Sunni I know--not any certain sect), and that we turn to Jurisprudence (that's Islamic Law--Sharia if you will) because scholars can spend years studying to learn and God-willing (inshAllah) they know better than average person. Would you be your own lawyer? Isn't that saying man who's own lawyer is fool? Well, not up to ME to determine how laws are. Thought of niqab and sorta want to wear but already have been harassed enough by TSA for carrying my GPS on plane to use when visiting family in another state...they took dang thing apart...like little old handicapped ME is going to do something that I find haram to innocent people! The stories I could share about those folks--hubby has said not to complain because they might get promoted for their stupidity! Have to agree with that :s The ones who may commit those suicide bombs are just like those that go around shooting up schools here...mentally ill. Sound understanding of Islam would tell anyone that those things do NOT bring you to Jannah. And I do not have to support their actions when they are doing haram things! No good Muslim does--don't buy into those lies. My husband was raised conservative Islam and he is very clear of that also with our son.
What I haven't liked about @!$%#es I have known is just when they think I should pray to one of the Prophet(saws)'s grandsons. We should NOT even pray to the Prophet (saws) but only to our Lord, Allah (swt). I will not take any partners with my Lord.
Please before everyone continues to condemn all Muslims because someone you know died here or there (and the US has its own agenda for going wherever it goes--not always to bring peace), please read about Islam, not just picking an ayat (verse) here or there as I could do the same with the Bible to show that it is the most violent religion...sit down to read it honestly and with an open heart. You may be very pleasantly surprised to see how much it's like Christianity, Judaism, and many other faiths really...learn the history behind how the Bible was organized...how parts got left out or "reorganized" and new parts added even! That was shocking for me...
The topic is drones, not dawah, but I do feel like addressing your very last point:
My guess is that you would be equally shocked to learn that the Qur'an was cobbled together over time in the same haphazard fashion and NOT passed down directly to Muhammad by a sky fairy named Gabriel. I'm not a Christian myself, but if you're going to pooh-pooh another religion for having a shaky foundation, you might want to have a hard look at your own foundation too.
Beantown mom: Your explanations are regular craps of explanations, spins and lies on Islam and its greatness.
Since the birth of Isalmic cult, followers have not contributed anything positive to a society, place, nation and world except telling lies, trying to fool, doing dances and dramas on love and peace, stealing, kidnapping, looting, raping, killing and doing genocides of non-Muslims.
At least: hope you have a little bit of honesty and ingtegrity to move to a Muslim nation instead of being liabilities to our societies in all respects.
About Muslims being large in numbers and so on, commies used to give similar spins.
Where are commies?
Extremism of anything, especially violence, is self destructive.
Lastly many followers of Islamic cult don't understand that their extremism is going to ruin them and their religion.
Allah was right when he predicted end of Islam soon.
Jonathan, you didn't address me but since hardly anyone else is still around here I will say that I find you to be one of the more interesting people I encounter on these threads. And of course I admire your fight though I wish you would stop short of advocating carpet bombing which would necessarily kill too many innocents and comes across as unnecessarily ruthless.
It's a mostly thankless job posting here, exposing Islam, but it needs to be done. Truth-telling can be very unpopular among people who would prefer to have unpleasant things just magically disappear. Some of us know better. Evil does not go away on its own but is only stopped when resolutely confronted and defeated head on.
Adam44: Thanks a lot.
For stopping WWII, there was nuking of Heroshima and Nagasaki. If there was no nuking, Japanese would probably have fought more and killed more.
Nuking shortened the period of WWII.
Get the enemy before they get you.
This applies to Islamic extremism also. Islamic extremists have killed millions and many millions are living under fear of them.
Syria, Pakistan, Mali, Niegeria are some recent examples.
For that reason, I advocate carpet bombings of prime Sunni Islamic extremism (80 percent of problems are due to them) roots/trouble spots.
Sunni Islamic extremists will kill millions including huge numbers of innocents, children and women.
This will help sane Muslims too.
Look at Egypt. Can any sane human being (I am sure many Egyptian Muslims are humans too) tolerate that Morsi and his Muslim Bloodhounds with their Sharia Laws in 21st century?
Yes, I undersand what you are saying. You are talking about the extremist hot spots and it's not that I disagree necessarily, just that a lot of people will not get what you are saying and will just think that you are the extremist for writing such things. But you're right, we are at war and the only way to win a war sometimes is to take off the gloves and use overwhelming force, as in WWII versus Japan and the Nazis too. Extremist Muslims are today's Nazis; you and I agree about that. We DO need to fight them and fight them with force and resoution. We agree on that for sure.
Adam44: Thanks a lot again.
It is clash of religions: Muslims vs non-Muslims. Here Muslims are more organized.
Whereas among non-Muslims, there are lots of disunity.
If non-Muslims and even Christians had some longrange views, invention of Bosnia (these days a strict Salaffi nation like Saudi Arabia) in Europe would not have been possible.
Lebanon is another tragic case where lack of unity among Christians contributed to the pathetic genocides of Christians.
Also many go by: what you see is what you get.
In fooling, telling lies, giving some nonsense excuses, extremist Muslims and their "moderate" supporters are experts.
Oil money is also playing a major role.
Here primary culprits are Saudi Arabia and Pakistan.
You just watch: they will kill each other a good amount and then some non-Muslim nations are going to jump on them in a big way. It may lead to WWIII.
Well, of course I agree with most of all that. And regarding the "moderates," yes there are some even though Islam itself is not at all moderate. But if not outright supporters of the extremists (which they sometimes are and still get away with duping westerners into thinking they aren't) then they are passive enablers because very few of them are ever moved to actually fight against the extremists themselves,
I've likened it to the phenomenon of the "Good Germans" in WWII who followed the Nazi vanguard into the maelstrom of WWII. Even if they (the good germans) didn't particularly like it sometimes, they never revolted and put a stop to it, and there were always a million excuses for why not, even after the fact. When things were going well it was probably a great feeling being the masters of Europe and belonging to such a supreme club. Very much the same kind of flattery, albeit without the same success as yet, that the Islamic Nazis shower upon the Ummah: Islam is special, Islam is pure, Islam is truth (there is no God but Allah, blah blah blah), and ABOVE ALL, ISLAM IS SUPREME! That last one is what they are determined to make a reality, if not by convincing then by force. It's very much the same Nazi message but veneered by religion which makes it harder to expose and defeat. I think that moderate Muslims will continue to flirt with and enable their co-religionist Nazis until they are shown that the dream of Worldwide Islamic Supremacy will not happen. Right now they are still thinking that it could happen so they are continuing to passively follow or sit on the fence and flirt with disaster, just as the 'good germans' did 70-75 years ago. A very dangerous path to follow. And as you say, some form of WWIII could be the end result.
Anyway, it's good to know that at least some other people get what is happening and why we must continue to expose and fight against it.
See you in another thread my friend.
Adam44: 1. Nice to notice your persistence and knowledge.
2. Your explanations of "moderate" Muslims/Germans are 100 percent true. May be: I am hoping against hope that there are "sane" Muslims. You rightly mentioned: they are enablers!
3. I was trying to be a bit moderate and a bit of "divide" and "rule" with terms. I won't mention this point explicitly again.
4. Please keep going and we will win. Always good wins over bad.
5. Allah has mentioned the demise/doomsday/khyamet of Islam, which most Muslims won't admit.
6. See you in another thread. Have a nice day/night depending upon the place you live.
Thanks Jonathan, and a good day to you too. I think that there are some moderate Muslims too but they never seem to put up much of a fight against the extremists among them. Hardly any fight at all in fact. Nonetheless, I hope you are right about everything will play out. We will see. Take care.
Adam44: It was a pleasure to exchange these posts.
I am a writer; have seen lots of life (more than 70 years now) and widely travelled.
I love reading, thinking and posting. I enjoyed the whole exchange of posts.
I also believe: times solve many problems.
If you are quite young just watch how Islamic extremism will be crushed over times.
Thanks again.
Thanks Jonathan. You sure don't come across as 70+. It's quite clear that you are a reader and a free-thinker. It's probably what keeps you young (in spirit) and vigorous! I get the feeling that you will be around for a lot longer too. I'm honored to be in this fight alongside you.
Only ONE tip from US, We're Gonna KILLYA!
These are helpful tips for Americans that may soon be under threat
by the very same thing. Apparently due process isn't pragmatic enough for our
government. We need to disarm our citizens and put them under constant surveillance up to and including an occasional unpreventable drone strike if considered a phantom menace to society.
Oh please Costaire your writing the future for all to see i pray. Profedic words if i ever read any!! You are a militant and must be destroyed. All take warning. Your vote will be taken away some day also.
Tip number 23: Lean forward as far as possible and kiss your as goodbye.
Tip number 24: Dress in a white sheet of the type used for burials and drive to the nearest cemetery. read tip number 23. This will allow more friends to attend your funeral as you have made it easier for them.
Tip #23
I like it.
The only problem is they like it too.
Ban all drones they kill people. Or do the people that operate the drones kill people> I'm confused.
We can all use the tips when the Government sends drones to dispatch Americans who won't give up their weapons as the new Socialist movenment takes over.
Yes, all teabirthers should cover themselves with mud and hide under a tree immediately!
Great! ..What they don't realize is now our men manning the controls of these drone will be even more prone to fire on anything that moves rather than taking the chance that the militant might get away. For instance if an Al Qaida terrorist has just shot at some of our troops on the ground, then leaves the area in a vehicle covered in mud our drones will have no choice but to fire on anything else in the area that might resemble that vehicle. I would say this is why most of the targets we hit are civilians. I have to ask how many times our troops have made a decision to fire from a drone at something that "might be" the target. At the same time you wonder if the militant that just got away has any conscience as to how his actions of choosing to run like a coward are costing the lives if his fellow country men..
The fact is drones are here to stay and in no way will the US military ever admit the system has its drawbacks in that 6 out of 10 times the targets are nothing but a "maybe" with not enough info to support the decision to launch. I mean here you have a bunch of kids in trailers in the desert that were brought up on playing with X Boxes at home now behind the controls of 20 million dollar weapons that are making joint decisions on what may or may not be the target their looking for. You have to ask how many times the phrase "..you think thats the target?" with a response from their superior of "Um..maybe..Go ahead and launch and we'll see what happens.." gets said in the course of a day. I'm sure the follow up pans out something to the effect of "Ughh....Ooops...ha ha..I guess that wasn't him.." while the trailer is filled with laughter in unison of yet another family of innocent civilians killed by the US military...
You're a good fiction writer. Few civilians are killed by drones. No civilians are targeted by drones (unlike how the terrorists operate).
hate to tell you this but there is a specific request and permission to engage (that's the "fire" command) yes, there have been some mistakes made - NOT TOO MANY.
EYES IN THE SKY BEATS BOOTS ON THE GROUND
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You said, "The fact is ..."
The real fact is that your made up facts are not true. I respect your right to have an opinion, but you shouldn't attempt to influence others without your own fabrication of the truth.
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Let's rearm our aircraft. Something so devastating Al Queda will be run out of villages where they wish to hide or sleep by their own people. Take some of the newer fire fighting aircraft from here in the states. Make them drones. Bring them over to Afghanistan. Have them pump a combination of human waste (American Military Human Waste) from a sewerage treatment plant into it's belly, take off and regurgitate it all over that village. If there is one thing those Allah Akbar guys don't like it's American @!$%#. lol. Hey wait a minute... As stupid as it sounds it may work. Who cares. Do it anyway. Let's laugh our asses off all the way HOME. USA! USA! USA!
That would probably violate the Geneva Convention, or some UN resolution...but I have to say it would give new meaning to the phrase 'less than lethal force.' LOL
best tip for them people over there is to , get a pig farm, hog will be on the rise now , piggy herders ,
that is allot better then being a worm farmer,
but buzzard have to eat just like worms
so oh well
oink oink
tip# 25 go halfers on a camel costume with someone
Remember. Al Queda doesn't use TP. So make sure you get the front position. lol
Someone needs to get this list to Ted "the diaper" Nugent immediately. He is at the top of the "other" list, you know the hit list........... followed by Rush the Blimp. ROFLMAO!
You don't seem to enjoy freedom of speech it sounds like. So sad!! We have your number and we can easily see it has NO Value. I would like a copy of that list in english myself thank you!!! It's called freedom of choice.
Have to agree with H8T... not a fan of Nugent or Lush Rimjob either... both are shining examples of some of the worst human qualities.
Something I never heard mentioned about the man or should I say imitation of a man. Was he in the Military? Where and when if there, was a yes? Or was he just another spoiled singing star of the 60's hiding behind his locks while we all enlisted or got drafted?