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Stephane De Sakutin / AFP - Getty Images
Carl Pistorius, who is facing culpable homicide charge in a 2010 road death, and sister Aimee Pistorius attend the appearance of their brother South African Olympic sprinter Oscar Pistorius on Tuesday.
JOHANNESBURG -The family lawyer of Oscar Pistorius says the brother of the Olympic paraplegic athlete is facing culpable homicide charge in a 2010 road death.
Laywer Kenny Oldwage would not confirm details of the case Carl Pistorius is facing, but Sunday's development is compounding the problems for the family after Oscar was charged with premeditated murder in the Feb. 14 shooting death of girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp.
Local media reported that Carl Pistorius was allegedly involved in a crash with a woman motorcyclist and that he was to face trial last Thursday, as his brother Oscar was facing a bail hearing.
Oscar Pistorius was released on bail Friday and his brother Carl was seen driving into the affluent villa of their uncle Arnold early Sunday, where Oscar is staying while on bail.
Related:
Slain model's father: Pistorius will 'suffer' if he's lying about her death
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'Nobody saw it coming,' Reeva Steenkamp's uncle says
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They say when it rains, it pours. For this family when it comes to alleged homicide, it couldn't be more true. The newspapers didn't provide much information surrounding the circumstances of this new event.
Given this happened in 2010, I am surprised this hasn't been brought up in the past. Especially before the Olympics with all the media focused on a famous sibling. How tragic another woman died, her loved ones left devastated, and this family faces more consequences for choices poorly made.
Looks more like the whole Pistorius Family has become starstruck and does not understand that most of us could care less. The path of fame always seems to bring down entire families today. I am so glad that I am an old school Franco/Guido who knows that I am not really that special. What has happened to the values and appreciate for dignity wit these entertainers.
Having seen how people drive in 3rd world countries I have my doubts that it was his fault and not a combination of both drivers screwing up at the same time.
It all runs in the family!
Pistorius...is dead meat..pork.
Their parents must be so proud...
@ The-COG post 1.1,
"and appreciate for dignity wit these entertainers" It all went out the window along with the Spelling/Grammar checker. Just a few minutes to proof read and we all could understand just a little more about each other.
Do ya think our midget-brained media might leave this soap opera story over in South Africa for awhile and cover some actual news over here?
Matching pajamas and bunk beds just like when they were growing up.
Being a sociopath runs in the family.
A car accident = sociopath ? ? ?
Curiouser and curiouser. And we all thought South Africa was now in the same century as the Western world but it sounds to me like this family is able to buy some influence, or they've been incredibly lucky, especially with that crazy cop who is going to be charged with murder himself. It also sounds like they still have some issues in their legal system if the brother is still waiting for trial in a vehicular homicide case more than 3 years later. If he wasn't drinking it should have been easy to dispose of. Accidents happen.
South Africa is no different than here in the good old USA when it comes to the rich avoiding prosecution for any crime, not just murder. What surprises me is that the fate of accused murderers in South Africa is decided by a judge, not a jury.
O.P....South Africa's O.J.
Ain't it the truth! Money talks no matter where in the world you live!
Agree with all the above, good start Marie. Distance/time is the greatest foe of justice. I have to believe booze/drugs/speeding are the unknowns for the bobsie twins. GMUS
Busy little prosecutor covering up his own team's homicide charges, then digging up a road accident from three years ago. I agree that the timing is suspicious given that the Olympics should have brought this to the international press' atttention like a shot. Trial by ink and now trial by insinuation. Seems that this prosecuttor doesn't trust his investigative practives to hold up under a legal trial framework.
Africa needs to find a way to install more ethical prosecutors almost as much as it needs better ways to protect its citizens from lawbreakers and its law enforcement incompetence. And the show goes on while a possibly innocent man is used like a goat on a rope in front of hungry cameramen/women.
Shame on Africa.
Hummmmmmmmmmmmm .. "What Happens Twice, Happens Three Times" ....
It's difficult to digest, the totality of violence, that has surrounded this case .... Whats Next?
While apartheid had to go, South Africa was a western first world country before the ANC took over, now it has become a third world cesspool due to a lack of education in government.
Africa is a continent not a country, try not skipping geography class.
Politico Journo
Where do you come up with " Shame on Africa ' bit.
First this is happening in the Country of South Africa. Africa on the other end is a Continent. The way you see it, it is blaming all of North America for the OJ debacle.
Second, you seem to not read any of the happenings and you are throwing your judgement out there. The Prosecutor had nothing to do with the charges against the Investigating Officer. The charges stem from an incident in 2011 when the Police shot at a mini van containing murder suspects, who were subsequently arrested. If you want to throw corruption charges out, you would say that people sympathetic to Oscar P. broadcast the news of the charges just a day after the IO testified against Oscar. P. The Prosecutor had nothing to do with it. So get your facts straight before being judgemental.
Now who do you believe is innocent? Oscar Pistorius shot and killed his girlfriend under the pretense that he thought she was an intruder. " a possibly innocent man is used like a goat on a rope.." Are you suggesting that Oscar Pistorius should not be charged for killing this young lady? Is that the standard of justice you advocate that you believe Africa should emulate? And by the way how do you know this man is innocent? He killed the young lady and he said so himself. First thing he said to the Police when they arrived on the scene is" I thought it was a burglar".
That defense had be used many times before by many others in crime ridden South Africa. "I shot at someone in my home... i thought it was a burglar."
The reason many of us do not believe Oscar P. defense is that he shot the young lady 4 times. If he did not mean to kill her, he would not have pulled the trigger a second, third and fourth times since she screamed the first time he shot her and he would have know it was the only person with him in the house at the time. The only way he would not have known is by the most improbable of occurence, he shot her and she did not scream. Thst is the only way he would belive it was a burglar and he shot multiple other times.
The reason I don't believe his defense is that Pistorius claimed that he couldn't see in the dark bedroom to know whether or not his girlfriend was in bed. Sure didn't have trouble finding his legs or the gun, did he? A liar and a murderer. Apparently, it runs in the family. So to speak.
So, I take it this is the brother Oscar called that night of Oscar's incident. Maybe the Detective who's up on murder charges handled his brother's case as well in 2010. If so, they'll both walk. F. Lee Bailey couldn't make this up. The lawyer probably called the detective that night himself. I would have. Maybe the lawyer is handling the Detective's case as well.
South Africa has been called the crime capital of the world for a reason.More people are killed there, in a population of 50 million, then all the total in the United States of over 350 million each year.That doesn't count road accidents, or any other crimes. It's court system is really backed up, with obvious problems of lack of proper handling,resources,effectiveness,professionalism, and other major problems noted by outside observers, including manpower.
Of course, when one has a famous person involved, it is an entirely different matter. As was noted by another person who used to live there, it is not an uncommon thing for family members who need medical help, to call one another, instead of an ambulance.Because they will respond quicker,getting someone to a hospital. He has just his older brother Carl, and a younger sister Aimee.
Get your facts straight, Windancersong. The current population of the USA, according to the government census website, is 315,385,457. That doesn't even round up to 350 million by any stretch of the imagination.
You are correct, my bad, forgot the one after the three! Thanks for correcting me.:) So glad there are folks like you keeping the rest of us honest! Check out the following link for the sobering facts on their crime rates.
http://www.nationmaster.com/compare/South-Africa/United-States/Crime
Windancersong,
Don't let the alphbet soup guy get to you...the gist of your post is still there and still makes a point.
Windancersong - I can remember when the population of the USA was around 200 million or so. There was a Coke commercial or something like that in the 70s that stated "200 million people" in the song that they used for advertising. It seems like the population has increased by 50% over night. I was startled to see 350 million, so had to check for myself.
It really is difficult to believe that crime rates are higher in a country with a population that is only approximately one sixth that of the USA. We think that we have it bad.
One question: Was the woman motorcyclist Carl Pistorius's girlfriend?
Oscar's. (j/k)
@Leroy You might be on to something, good post.
Sounds like Carl is up on what we'd call an Involuntary Manslaughter charge (vehicular). Who knows how the media would interpret it. I suspect the media has found a plausible excuse to imply it was another homicide. Cases do not get better with age. Lawyers will continue them forever if a judge lets them. Or, the judge is paid enough.
Um, manslaughter is homicide.
Um, there are different kinds of homicide, Einstein. Manslaughter and first degree murder are defined differently by law. So, what is your point, EarlyOut?
Of course it is. It still falls under Homicide. But which is more catchy for the media ? Homicide or Manslaughter ? Thought you'd get that, EarlyOut.
Quote, from your post:
The media don't need to imply anything. It was a homicide. A person was killed. Or are you suggesting that there's a possibility the motorcyclist died from natural causes?
That's Einstein, Esq., to you. How many times have you passed the Bar Exam? I'm guessing I'm one up on you.
I'm only saying the media's choice of words always seems to be garnered with sensationalism. It would have been more correct to use the word Manslaughter. A vehicle manslaughter is normally handled by the traffic bureau. Not the Homicide division. Just another short article to muddy the waters. Although, yes, its a legal category of homicide. In this country, you wouldn't be charged for anything unless there are circumstances such as drugs and alcohol or some other event or condition to prove negligence.
To a lot of people, "manslaughter" may actually be the more sensational word, probably just because it includes "slaughter," with its overtones of gruesomeness.
However, there are people like me who look at that word and subconsciously pronounce it "man's laughter." Too much early exposure to Benny Hill, I suspect....
Yeah, well how many Ph.D.s do you have in the hard sciences from top ten universities? Ph.D. trumps bar exam any day of the week, so I'm guessing that I'm more than one up on you. If you had truly passed the bar exam, then you would know that murder, manslaughter and all the variations among them are all homicides. Perry is merely commenting on the media's interpretation, which is always skewed toward sensationalism.
Well next time you're in trouble hire a PhD instead of someone who has passed the bar exam. Be sure to invite us to you and Bubba's wedding.
ABCzyx, the fact that murder and manslaughter are variations on homicide is exactly my point. Which part of this are you not getting?
The media aren't sensationalizing it by calling it homicide. That's exactly what it is: homicide. It's a very accurate description. If they'd called it murder, they'd be sensationalizing (and almost certainly lying, to boot). If they'd called it a brutal killing, they'd be sensationalizing.
It's a sad day when bar exam certified lawyers and Ph.D.s have nothing better to do than to spend their time posting here.
South Africa doesn't have the same legal definitions as the US. To them, murder is murder. There aren't multiple shades of it, from what I've read.
So, a jury is going to convict a guy with no legs who is their nation's icon in sports, who has a very plausible story, based on the worst prosecution array of screw-ups ever, who cries a lot over the horrible accident? Not !
First, it has been published that there will be no jury. It's decided by a judge. Second, his story is not plausible. It is full of holes, such as the ballistic evidence that he had taken the time and forethought to put on his artificial legs before going to the bathroom and opening fire, yet he claims that he did not have on his legs. Third, crying a lot is no indication of innocence. He is probably crying because he got caught and will face charges.
Stop you hero worship and look at the facts.
@ABCzyx-
I think the guy is guilty as hell. I just know a little about "jury appeal". While the single judge will determine at pre-trial if the case is fit for a jury trial, the prosecution is going to have the burden of proof, and what we know/feel has didly to do with facts and evidence. All the prosecution has to do is move the jury to be beyond a reasonable doubt to convict. The defnse attorney is going to enter a motion to quash any evidence submitted/tainted by the (accused) Detective, and take the case apart to show lack of evidence. Just saying, to a jury who is distracted by his Hollywood ass, they won't be at the point of beyond a reasonable doubt. They WILL have reasonable doubt. Meanwhile, the media will paint it their way.
Perry NO JURY and JUDGE TRIAL only.
The trial is taking place in South Africa, not in the United States. Since it seems to have escaped your notice, South African law is not the same as the law in the United States. There is no such thing as a "jury" in South Africa. All trials are decided by a judge with two assistants. If you want to see what the procedure looks like, you might want to watch "The Girl Who Kicked the Hornet's Nest", a Swedish movie which depicts a fictional murder trial in the Swedish courts, which use a similar but not identical system.
@J.Clarke -
Thanks. I knew where it was, but, was not aware of their system.
You mean the US judiciary system is not used worldwide, I'm shocked (sarcasm)
This family has some serious issues. In south Africa there is no jury trial. Pistorius' fate will be decided by a judge. From what I have read it may also take 2 years before a "verdict" is rendered, so it is no surprise that is brother was involved in a homicide two years back and its now being commented on. I am thinking that this jackass is going to get a "pass" because he is South Africa's little "prince".
Have been making comparisons to our system. So, thanks. Didn't know they were still in the 19th century wild west there. And, yes, it seems to me that if the other presiding judge is like the bail hearing judge it will be interesting. The bail hearing judge seemed like he was ready to throw the whole thing out from what I viewed during those two hours. Simply put, the prosecution has to disprove Oscar's side of the story and submit a proper case, and the judge criticized it all he could.
Really hate to see this guy walk, but, I think the fix is in and the media will have to get over it.
That was an unforgettable pun, and I almost missed it.
I think the defense has, alas, found its Mark Fuhrman. Even though he's been taken off the case, Hilton Botha sounds like a real piece of work, a bumbler who has now tainted the investigation. He's single-handedly and needlessly managed to dig a hole for the prosecution.
Maybe we could knee cap him? Good one Perry.
He doesn't have a leg to stand on...
Meh...It was a motorcyclist. Not as big a deal.
Wow, this is a family with more than its share of problems.
Yeah. Multi-millionaires have it rough.
what's wrong with this family
Sort of like asking what is wrong with the Kennedy's.
Questions to ponder -- How many female judges are there in So. Africa? How many men there, are victims of domestic violence? How many females drivers there, are involved in automobile mishaps that are so severe they result in death? Since Reeva was an advocate for women's protection from violence, could Oscar see her as a threat to his career since it is alleged that she was a victim of his anger before, and he may have held deep resentments that she could 'out' him on that at some point?
He (being rich enough to hire the best lawyers) wouldn't even be a good candidate for a finding of 'guilty' in this country, much less a country with a 19th century system and a 18th century attitude towards blacks and minorities, and with a 16th century attitude towards women. Not that he's innocent. That's almost beside the point.
What a great family! Their parents must be SO proud!
Please allow me to give two reasons why I think Oscar is guilty as hell. First, I handled a case where a man woke in the middle of the night and shot thru a door because the perp was chopping through near the lock with an axe. (didn't kill him though). Now, here's what's relevant. First thing he (the victim) did was shake his wife and wake her and found her already awake and made sure she was okay and aware and said he told her to call the police while he got his pistol. Secondly, some 3 years ago, a guy broke into my house. First thing I did was shake my wife and tell her to call the police. I got my pistol and went downstairs and caught the guy. I even made a pot of coffee for us until the police arrived. Again, the point being, we shook our wives. We didn't tell them to lock themselves in the bathroom and be quiet. You protect your woman. First instinct.
Neither did he. He put on his legs and went over and shot 4 times thru the door without saying a word. I guess in South Africa the intruders lock themselves in the bathroom (sarcasm) instead of robbing the place.
Stone cold killer. O.P. is South Africa's O.J. Let's hope justice prevails this time.
Rough family ..
This family needs to be exterminated.
Lest we forget the lead investigator is charged with murder in this as well...
Was the detective the first responder ? If not, i'd be interesting in knowing whether or not Oscar made any spontaneous statements in the police reports of the first cops on the scene. Whether they differed from the coached one.
Sounds suspiciously like Carl (the older brother) made a personal phone call to the lead investigator (Detective), and he was the first on the scene. Botha botched it. He should get half the villa. Wonder if he has the same lawyer ?
With the thousands of usprosecuted serial killers in the US military that murdered 1.4m Iraqi citizens and others hiding out behind the banner of PTSD, not to mention some 900,000 Iraqi rape cases Sec/Def (What's his face?) chose to 'sweep under the carpet' I would think that this country should shut the fugg up and cast its stones after it has cleaned up its own problems.
We did. But, it was back when Roy Bean was a judge. Maybe he was from South Africa.
What's his face = Donald Rumdfeld.
Gee, I don't doubt your numbers, and I was greatly opposed to invading Iraq (still am). But could you site your references for the numbers of 1.4M murders and 900K rapes? Thanks.
The american people are scum...stupid as a block of wood...look at the dictator they voted in...this is what you get when people have freedom...they throw all ethics and morals right out the window and will sell their freedom for a free phone...how bad is that?
It wouldn't at all surprise me if Carl, Oscar and the lead investigator didn't all have the same lawyer and go on holiday together.
Oscar is a double amputee not a paraplegic.
What the hell kind of family is this ? They have money and therefore privilege and opportunity? And my comment is just about them; not the nation of South Africa where the legal system seems as lax as the police. They should both have their day in court--I just hope they "DON'T" get a jury of their peers since it "appears" if you have money, you can kill at will...and take steroids to induce a psychosis of invulnerability.
He is NOT a paraplegic. Do they even edit stories in CNN anymore?