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Subscribe to RSSFamilies in a West Bank town call on divine intercession to stop the construction of a barrier they say will separate residents from their own land. NBC News' Yara Borgal reports.
BEIT JALA, West Bank — A West Bank community plants olive trees, even though many residents don’t think they will ever see them harvested. Any day, construction of Israel’s security wall could slice through this valley.
"We are trying in a way to keep this land … especially for the children of Beit Jala to feel a little bit of freedom," said Maher Matar, a resident of the mostly Christian Palestinian community of 58 families.
Appeals to Israel’s courts have failed to stop the project, which Israel says is vital to protect it from terrorist attacks.
The impending decision has prompted both Christians and Muslims in the area to gather for weekly prayers they hope will stop Israel from building the separation wall.
While the International Criminal Court has said the wall is "illegal" under international law, Israel maintains the structure is essential.
"It is important to remember that before the waves of Palestinian terror took 1,000 Israeli lives, there was no need for a fence. There was no need for a security barrier," said Israeli Defense Ministry spokesman Josh Hantman. "This barrier, it saves lives. And every inch of the barrier is open to judicial review and up for appeal."
Israel has already completed 65 percent of the planned 435-mile barrier. Human rights organization B’Tselem says that if the wall is finished, 85 percent will fall on Palestinian land.
"People abroad they think we are terrorists," said Elaine, a Beit Jala resident who would give only her first name. "We are not terrorists. We are fighting for our own rights. We are fighting for our own homes for our own land."
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Leave a Comment:
Now there is a need. Nothing makes a better neighbor than a fence!
Yep. Auschwitz had some great fences. Do you think that was a good neighbor?
Thomas Blue:
Your analogy between Auschwitz and this was is totally inappropriate and disgusting. Sure the wall is creating hardships, but the Arabs are not living in Auschwitz. You leave out the fact that Palestinian terror took 1000 Israeli lives before the separation fence.
How can you compare the Auschwitz death camp to this? (You can thank me for providing the dignity of even responding to your post - a dignity it does not deserve.)
the main difference is that the Nazis were killing the Jews quickly, relatively speaking. The Israeli govt is slowly choking the Palestinians to death by denying them food, water, money, medical services and medicine, the list goes on. Personally, I'd prefer a quick death. I suppose know the answer, but I'll ask anyway: are you aware that a Palestinian born in Israel is an Israeli citizen and can vote? Are you also aware that the the Palestinians typically have much larger families than the Jews? It is extrapolated that in as little as 20 years, the Palestinians will have the numbers to simply take control of the Israeli state by ballots. The Jews have been searching for a solution to prevent this. Do you want to take a guess at their solution?
Thomas, if you have seen pictures of those poor poor Palestinians, you will notice that the only meals they seem to be lacking are Weight Watchers. They are indeed getting food and other supplies.
I just built a fence to keep out my nice but irresponsible neighbors and their dog. That stupid dog dug up all of my root veggies last year and destroyed all my hostas.
Fences are great ideas----especially when your neighbor fires rockets, grenades and bullets onto your property ever single day of every single year.
A little related: Chicago just listed its "Most Wanted Criminal" as a Mexican drug lord. It doesn't get a lot of press, but I was just reading an article on the increase in crime and drugs from Mexican criminal element in the U.S Perhaps its time we started taking our borders as serious as Israel takes hers. ( and yes, I know not all illegal aliens are violent drug and prostitution pushers but enough are to warrant more action by our lazy government)
The only ones being isolated are the Israelis. Everyone in the world hates them for what they are doing. Except maybe America's politicians, Jewish controlled media, and Jewish lobby. It is racist elitism at its worst. These Palestinian people are praying for a solution...and many are Christians. Wake up, religious souls in America. They would take your land too if they had the opportunity. They don't care about you...and laugh at how easily you are manipulated.
has anyone ever wondered why the huge surrounding Muslim countries cry out their support for Palestinians but never offer a little piece of land to them? They are the same ethnic group and religious group so why not? I mean they could have that little piece of Saudi sticking up or a few miles of Syria--- that place is a fixer uppers dream right now.
More lies from Isreal, to steal more land, to steal more water and inflame the other side into violence.
When will we get a pres that will stand up to Israel? And a congress?
This is Israels land. They gave up part of their land and that was supposed to be all they wanted. But as soon as they got that land they wanted more. It will never be enough because they want to eliminate Israel.
David, you should look again at the history of Palestine when it was a mandate held by the British. It was the Zionist terrorists like the Haganah, Stern Gang, Irgun Zvai Legum that mounted terrorist attacks against British installations and personnel, and against Palestinian villages. And, after Partition it was the new IDF, made up of those terrorist gangs that invaded into Arab Palestine, supposedly for security reasons but quickly became a grab for more territory. Partition would never have happened if Britain had not been forced to give up the mandate resulting in the UN partitioning Palestine into two separate soon to be the nations of Israel and Arab Palestine. Israel has always claimed the right of self-defense, to secure more land as a "Buffer." Does that mean the right of the IDF to move into a Palestinian village like Ramle (My phonetic spelling), telling the inhabitants that they are to leave with only what they can carry, that all property now belonged to the Israeli people? Note too that the Palestinians had been living in the area for centuries and the confiscated land would be given to Jews relturning to the "Homeland." Returning? Lol, many of those "Returning" had never been out of their home nations. And, those returning had to have something to offer; Military experience, wealth, crafts and skills." Lol, Black Jews like from Ethiopia were discouraged. Sure, there were and are today Palestinian terror attacks against Israel, but there were also Israeli terrorist attacks against Palestinians; Tel Zaatar, Sabra, Shatilah. There's a difference, Palestinian attacks were carried out by groups not part of the government while Israeli terrorist attacks were carried out supported by the government.
Ayyad was the manager of the last Christian bookstore in Gaza. Of course it was burned to the ground by the same Gazan militants. I wonder why the Christians weren't protesting this instead? Perhaps they have very short term memories. At one time during the early Byzantine Empire, the entire Levant including Egypt, Turkey, and North Africa was 100% Christian, as Afghanistan was 100% Buddhist, Iran was 100% Zoroastrian, and there were many tribes of Jews that lived around the trading city of Medina...Then came Jihad. Who can blame the Israelis for building a wall. They are a speck of land on a beachhead surrounded by resource rich religious fanatics who are sworn to wipe them off the map.
When Palestinians stop acting like terrorists the wall can come down. Until then it stays up
That's a really nice looking wall. Most of the ancient cities in this part of the world were surrounded by protective walls so it looks perfectly natural.
Muslims should help Palestine because they use them for many years to lunch campaigns against the Israel and the west, using the Palestine as an instrument, silly them. Israel have the right to protect themselves and any government should do the same to protect their population. The situation of Palestine was created for the Muslims countries who declare the war against Israel. Palestinians are facing the consciences and none of their Muslim brothers lift a hand for them.
I know I would want a fence if my children were suffering at the hands of terrorist who's own manifesto is to destroy Israel. You can call it what you want, but the fact remains the United States will always stand by Israel because our own history came from being subjugated by a foreign power.
Leave Israel alone and the wall won't be necessary. As an aside note, I wonder how many of those praying failed to notify Israel in the past when a terrorist attack was being planned? My guess is none of them did.
1000 israeli lives? or 25,000 palestinian lives? That wall is not justified. Even an American was bulldozed to death along with over 6,000 palestinian homes on palestinian land for new jewish settlements and this wall. Who is the terrorist here?
Remeber the sayin, "First the Saturday people, then the Sunday people." Sorry, I don't speak Arabic , but I don't think you have to to fully understand the meaning. Of course, the atheistare before first. READ the QURAN and study the Haydiths and Sira.
You Libs should study up on what happens when Muslim Extremist gain total power. It ain't purdy for Libs, Free Thinkers, Women or GAYs. Ya better off under those "EVIL, DISGUSTIN" Fundamental Christians. LOL!
Hummmmmmmmm .... "Nothing makes a better neighbor than a fence!"
The accepted "Good Neighbor" policy is to build your fence on your own land .... not on your "neighbors" land .. confiscating and incorporating it as your own... "
Mellow, please retake your history class. Did you read about the government sponsered pogroms at all? Your selective inclusion of events betrays your antisemitic nature. Please take some sensitivity training, or just relize that you shouldn't hate a group of people simply because they worship a different g-d than you. Or (more likely), if you're Christian, the same g-d.
Not to mention all the terrorist attacks, designed to do nothing except create fear among Israelis and murder innocent civilians, has the backing of all their Arab neighbors, who, for some unknown reason will spend billions of $s to support murder, but won't lift a finger to help with medical needs, food, or even share a portion of their very sparsely populated country.
Ron, anyone who has an understanding of history, a logical way of thinking, or isn't an anti-semite supports Israel.
"The impending decision has prompted both Christians and Muslims in the area to gather for weekly prayers they hope will stop Israel from building the separation wall."
Well the Christians and Muslims coming together peacefully is a nice start. I have a better idea..........Instead of "Praying" for the wall to not be built why not "Pray" for the violence to end ? Without the violence they won't need a wall.
Or even better join together and STOP the violence. I know that I can put aside my religion (raised Christian) and join together to protect the freedom and well being of Muslims, Hindus, Jews, and other peaceful religions and beliefs (like Athiests and such). Can they say the same?
Until people of all beliefs (the religious and the athiests) join together and make it clear that harming others in the name of a higher power or so called One True Way won't be tolerated this BullSh!t will go on forever.
There has been a virtual firestorm of religous extremism going on and gaining momentum all over the planet. The Jihadi Muslims are on a roll and I hear rumblings in some members of the Christian community as well. Even the Hindus are getting P!ssed off as well. Whats next is the Dalai Lama going to declare war too (sarcasm) ?
The zio-nazis in Israel thumb their noses at the world because they have a big attack dog on the leash protecting them - US military and US government.
@Mac-101,
"Ya better off under those "EVIL, DISGUSTIN" Fundamental Christians. LOL!"
Ya mean like the Westboro Bastard Church, Terry Jones, David Koresh (The Wacko from Waco), Pat Roberts the 700Club (I don't like Hugo Chavez but saying we should "Take Him Out" is a tad extreme) and everyones favorite - LOLZ- Jim Jones of the Peoples Temple for the Humanitarian of the Year Award.
Some of these are ONLY held back by the Rule of Law like the Westboro Bastards and barely at that. Read up on how some of these fine folks treat their own children.
I can go on if you would like..........
All EXTREMISTS need to be dealt with. If you can't live in peace without harming others then rest in pieces.
Yup, Elaine, you got that right.
Land thieving Israel in action...
US government pays for the wall in Israel but has no money to build a wall along the border with Mexico... what a bunch of traitors we have in Washington DC
No need to pray. Just stop the homicide bombings. When one deals with the likes of Max108, one needs a fence. The following video demonstrates why a fence is needed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=sdCsl98naqM#t=303s
Note that the following is what Max had previously posted:
"Yes Basil, another fairy tale of a lost tribe you Jews spin... Join the Mormon fantasy club while you are at it. In my band we still do the Ghost Dance and do not care for your culture."
Fine, build a fence, that's your own business. But build it on YOUR land, don't take someone else's land, claim it as yours, then build a fence!
The similarities between Israel/Palestine now and US/Native Americans in the 19th Century is saddening.
http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/02/13/16949755-only-surviving-synagogue-near-auschwitz-on-verge-of-collapse?threadId=3666124&commentId=74175648#c74175648
Post# 2.18 (Just in case a link is needed to Max's effluvium)
Basil, you and the other zionist flunkies should move to Israel and do your dirty deeds on your own dime there. It is entirely lamentable that my taxpayer money goes to support Israel's land grabbing thievery. And as to the body count - Jews murdered a lot more Arabs than the other way round. Stop thieving, stop murdering people you don't like, and the Palestinians will settle down too.
Build the wall!!! Protect Israel!!!
Very well said, Fed. Good afternoon, Basil and Cassandra.
I'm so damned sick and tired of posting links proving again and again that those living in Gaza and the West Bank not only have it good but Israel contributes by providing free food and medical care. If these people are unhappy, complain to Hamas, Jordan, Lebanon and Egypt. Israel treats the people way better than these governing bodies.
Don't believe me?? Go to YouTube. You'll get all the proof you need. I'm tired of doing everyone's homework. I'm even more tired of seeing the same old lies from the same old haters every time a headline mentions Israel. Get a grip and get a life already!!! Most of you people wouldn't know a Palestinian from an Eskimo!!!
Max: The amazing thing is, I really don't hate you. I do, however, feel immense pity for you and for all those who vote in favor of your posts.
Shalom Chef and other reasonable people herein.
Basil, Israel is a parasite on my own country. If Finland was a parasite on my country, I would be just as pi$$ed. It is not about race or religion. You can pity me for favoring my own country and for not wanting my taxpayer money to go help your fellow Jews. I pity you for betraying the interests of your own country in order to favor your ethnic group.
The wall should be built entirely on Israeli land. If it is built on their land, then they have every right to do it.
How do we get one of these walls for our southern border?
I wonder if the Christians are being threatened by the Muslims to pray with them or they will be prey for the Muslims later?
The whole fence approach hasn't helped the US from a constant uncursion of illegals penetrating our country, expecting freebies at taxpayer expense.
Chef, Fed, Basil and other reasonable folks. Well said and thanks for your efforts.
@Max^108 - Frankly I find your ignorance to be offensive and your arguments to be pathetic and easily proven false. What a waste............
DickCranium - That was damn good............Thumbs Up!
Good countries build fences and strengthen borders to keep bad guys out (i.e. Israel, US) Bad countries build fences and strengthen borders to keep citizens from escaping (i.e. Eastern Berlin).
@fast 4U, ya, I'd like to see where that Westboro Bastard Church gits their fundin. I've read that they'reall family and once heard their lauyers. I wouldn't be surprised if their not funded by an anti-Christian group.
Some say Jonestown and Jimmie Jones was an Agency experiment, just saying. That Koresh was purposefully not apprehended during his daily run off his compound and Janet Reno took pleasure in burnin him and all those children alive. Just sayin.
The % of violent Christians is infintestamal to the % of violent Practitioners of the "Religion of Peace", Just Sayin. LOL!
Peace Out!
Why are all the intelligently written and fact based comments that side with Palestine on this issue collapsed or deleted? and ignorant rants and raves allowed supporting Israel? Who is the "COMMUNITY" ???
1,500ish years of this BS and no one,NO ONE,on either side can get their crap together.
Frigging shame that the people on both sides of these idiotic disputes,the vast majority of whom,Israeli and Palestinian,want this crap to end,are "led",now and always,by a bunch of miscreants who reached the "am not"..."are too"...level of diplomacy at age 5 and never made a stitch of progress thereafter.
When I look at that wall, I think, why can't they build such a wall to seperate Mexico and the United States?
EXACTLY!!!!!
kennyw, it's all about the water and greed. It's not about some ideology.
They do have a portion of a wall. It is called the Columbus Curtain it is located in New Mexico. They need to get tough though and apply real penalties for breaching a sovereign border.
The U.S. most likely provided the funds for the wall but won't do the same here at home.
Good countries build fences and strengthen borders to keep bad guys out (i.e. Israel, US) Bad countries build fences and strengthen borders to keep citizens from escaping (i.e. Eastern Berlin).
Christians and muslims unite??? Can't trust muslims, just look at their teachings from the koran! I trust a rattle snake not to bite me before trusting the muslim faith.
The rattlesnakes are the Zionists who steal the land of the Arabs and then demonize them for fighting back with sticks and stones. As another poster wrote, if Israel wants walls, let them build them in Israel. They have no right to build a wall on Palestinian land. In the original mandate, the entire West Bank was supposed to belong to the Arabs who lived there.
“The acceptance of partition does
not commit us to renounce Transjordan; one does not demand from anybody to give
up his vision. We shall accept a state in the boundaries fixed today. But the
boundaries of Zionist aspirations are the concern of the Jewish people and no
external factor will be able to limit them.” David Ben-Gurion, in 1936,
quoted in Noam Chomsky, “The Fateful Triangle.”
“Senator [J.William Fulbright]
proposed in 1970 that America should guarantee Israel’s security in a formal
treaty, protecting her with armed forces if necessary. In return, Israel would
retire to the borders of 1967. The UN Security Council would guarantee this
arrangement, and thereby bring the Soviet Union — then a supplier of arms and
political aid to the Arabs — into compliance. As Israeli troops were withdrawn
from the Golan Heights, the Gaza Strip and the West Bank they would be replaced
by a UN peacekeeping force. Israel would agree to accept a certain number of
Palestinians and the rest would be settled in a Palestinian state outside
Israel.
“The plan drew favorable editorial
support in the United States. The proposal, however, was flatly rejected by
Israel. ‘The whole affair disgusted Fulbright,’ writes [his biographer Randall]
Woods. ‘The Israelis were not even willing to act in their own self-interest.’”
Allan Brownfield in “Issues of the American Council for Judaism.” Fall
1997.[Ed.—This was one of many such proposals]
“In violation of international law,
Israel has confiscated over 52 percent of the land in the West Bank and 30
percent of the Gaza Strip for military use or for settlement by Jewish
civilians...From 1967 to 1982, Israel’s military government demolished 1,338
Palestinian homes on the West Bank. Over this period, more than 300,000
Palestinians were detained without trial for various periods by Israeli
security forces. “Intifada: The Palestinian Uprising Against Israeli
Occupation,” ed. Lockman and Beinin.
“Under the UN Charter there can
lawfully be no territorial gains from war, even by a state acting in
self-defense. The response of other states to Israel’s occupation shows a
virtually unanimous opinion that even if Israel’s action was defensive, its
retention of the West Bank and Gaza Strip was not...The [UN] General Assembly
characterized Israel’s occupation of the West Bank and Gaza as a denial of self
determination and hence a ‘serious and increasing threat to international peace
and security.’ “ John Quigley, “Palestine and Israel: A Challenge to
Justice.”
As anyone who has the ability to read can plainly see, the West Bank belongs to the Palestinians.
Stop all aid the Jewish parasites who live in Israel. They steal our taxpayer money by bribing our politians with our own money. It is an endless cycle of theft and bribery.
Well, the fence is build in Israel.
Every inch of that fence is on the land that rightfully belongs to Israel, either won in a defensive war of bought and paid for.
"The response of other states to Israel’s occupation shows a
virtually unanimous opinion that even if Israel’s action was defensive, its
retention of the West Bank and Gaza Strip was not..." - that statement will stop being bs the day Russia returns Kaliningrad and Kuril Islands, until than it's bs.
Everyone who is wining to about taxpayer money going to Israel, be ready to explain why you are OK with taxpayer money going to Egypt, Pakistan and other Muslim states.
It would seem that the Jews learned the wrong lesson from the Nazis. Rather than deeper their appreciation for why extermination is wrong, it seems they learned the best ways to do it to others. Good luck ever having peace. Golda Meir said that what she most hated about the terrorists was that it forced their children to become killers. She had that half right
Whom have the Israelis exterminated? There are hordes of Palestinians and Arabs around them. I fail to see extermination. But then, just like the Nazis you accuse the Israelis of being, you're propaganda, Thomas, is designed to incite hatred for the Jews.
Nope. I don't dislike Jews. But I loathe their government. Just as nasty and devious as the Chinese. Ever hear of the USS Liberty?
As to extermination, they have been systematically killing the Palestinians for decades. Where have you been?
Where have we been, Thomas? Trying to answer vicious fantasies like yours. To start with, the Palestinian population has been growing, thanks to the fine free pre- and post-natal care. It is given to Arabs and Israelis alike at Hadassah Hospital, named in honor of its supporters, the American Women Zionist Association.
They have systematically murdered Palestinians since 1945. the Palastinins used no violence till around 1967. do the math. they have leveled whole villages, just like Germany used to do. In the town of Deir Yasin, they waited for the men to go off to the fields and then exterminated the women and children. This happened in 1948. They tried to burn the bodies to hide their deed from the red cross and the world. The irgun got caught, but nothing was done. it's leader became prime minister in the 1980s.
Thomas, there has been killings on both sides. Did you forget about the 72 Olympics? Terrorism on a grand scale. In case you didn't know, Palestinians live peacefully in Israel proper. They can vote and are citizens of Israel. So I would say you've missed the boat on your analysis.
george- Doy ou have ANY idea WHY there were no "Palestinian" attacks before 1967? Open a history book and learn something, PLEASE! The Arabs in the area didn't refer to themselves as Palestinians UNTIL 1967. Before then, and for a period of the transition since, it was used to refer to JEWS. Until that point, when someone said "Palestine" they were referring to what is now Israel. Today's "Palestinians" are simply Arabs. They're no different than Syrians or Jordanians.
Kim, before Partition there were no terrorist attacks on Jews living in the Palestinian mandate. As I understand it, from talking to older people who lived there in those times Jews and Arabs lived peaceably, side by side in villages, each group worshipping as their religion directed. It wasn't until the world Zionist movement; A homeland for the Jews, began to mount terrorist attacks against the British to force them to give up the mandate and establish a nation ruled by Jews that Palestinians, Arabs if you will, began to take steps to protect themselves and to retaliate against Zionist attacks. Many times the UN condemned the Zionists. As one Palestinian, now Israeli citizen said to me; "If only the Zionist outsiders had left us alone there would be no strife." Well, not only did the UN condemn the Zionists it also dondemned Israel in the infamous Six Day War when Israeli forces attacked into Gaza, threatened the Suez Canal. You stated in a response to a earlier comment of mine that I should retake my history class. Well, I do read history, but not the one-sided history promoted by one popular group with a agenda. People read "Exodus" a example of pure Zionist propaganda and immediately condemn Arabs. They talk about how little Israel is surrounded by, and outnumbered by vast hordes of Arabs, lol. Sounds good but when the IDF, a well-trained force made up of terrorist gangs and experienced soldiers from American and British armies invaded Arab Palestine there was only one viable military force to oppose them; The Arab Legion of Jordan. It came to the defense of Arab Palestinians and a "Status Quo" was established. That's historical fact, and can be read about in John Glubbs' book; "A Soldier with the Arabs." As for the superior numbers, well, at no time did the Arab forces ever out-number the Israeli forces. Lol, they couldn't, they didn't have experienced troops. Kim, you state over and over to commenters to read history, learn what happened. Man, lol, maybe you should read some history too, unbiased. And, as for me being a Jew-hating anti-semite all I can say is that I'm not and as for hating a group because they don't follow the same religion as I, well, what about you attacking those who don't agree with you, attacking with "Jew hater, anti-semite?" Anyway, why was Palestine partitioned into two separate entities? Simply because Zionism demanded a homeland for the Jews, and, coupled with world guilt over the Holocaust it was done and now we today have to live with the results. And, lol, what's really ironic is that America puts it's weight, military and moral, on the side of Israel, and, Israel doesn't even have any oil, lol. I've come to the conclusion, finally, that the world community should just let those folks fight it out, once and for all. Or, being practical peoples, they would wind up living again peaceably side by side, because they know that each can learn from the other. Hell, basically they're all Semitic, worshipping the same God but with different names, and, all children of Abraham.
mellowfellow, sounds like you have been smoking a lot of weed instead of paying attention in history class. Your analysis of the past has a lot of re-written history. You state "...Jews and Arabs lived peaceably, side by side in villages, each group worshipping as their religion directed..." apparently you never heard about the Arab uprisings and mass killings of Jews in Hebron and other places 1929 and 1939. You also make it sound like Israel started the 1967 war all by itself. Also, "at no time did the Arab forces outnumber the Jews...is another idiotic statement. Go read Janes or other reliable military publications and learn something factual (for a change). Also "many times the UN condemned Israel", well of course they did because the UN is dominated by the 57 nations of the Islamic Conference, and has won the allegiance of many third world countries who base all their foreign policy on an "anti-Imperialist basis", and all Western nations are imperialists according to that philosophy. The UN never condemns the real criminal states like Sudan, Iran, Russia, China, North Korea, Cuba, they are too busy condemning Israel for every evil that exists in the world.
Please, study some history from unbiased sources before you make a fool of yourself (mis)posting on a news blog.
OC, I know about the Arab uprisings that you mentioned and I also know that they were done because of the suppression of Arab rights in the political arena. I still say that before Partition Arabs and Jews "Got along." Using your argument; Arabs rose and attacked Jews, would be like saying because Blacks rose up in L.A. and Detroit attacking Whites that Blacks and Whites don't live together peaceably. Lol, they do and they do even here in the South, where I live. As for the 1967 war, ok, Israel didn't start it all by itself, lol, Israel saw a military presence, Egyptian presence, in the Gaza Strip so Israel attacked. Rightly or wrongly, look into the history and it's a documented fact that the UN condemned Israel. Lol, for whatever reasons you feel comfortable with. As for the UN not condemning other nations like North Korea, well, that condemnation took the form of a multi-national military force sent to stop the North Korean invasion of South Korea. Yeah well, ok, back to Israel. You talk about smoking weed, not paying attention in history class. I don't use drugs and I would never charge someone that I didn't know of using drugs. Well, that may be just part of online disagreeing, like labelling people idiots and morons. Something else about looking into history, you should take a look at the Zionist movement, read something about Alfred Lilienthall, a American Jew and who wrote "Israel's Flag is Not Mine."
OC star., Here is some unbiased history on the Palestinian-Isreaeli conflict. Google "If Americans knew"
"The 0rigin of the Palistinian-Israeli Conflict" and Jews for Justice" You are grossly misinformed.
nationunder...if you believe the misinformation in the book "if Americans knew" you are the one who is grossly misinformed. My information comes from multiple sources, both American and foreign. jews for Justice is a very left leaning group and gets much of its information from the very left leaning main stream media including the NY Times. If you want to drink that biased liberal cool aide, go ahead. You are welcome to your opinion, but some of these groups try to re-write history to suit their own purposes.
mello...you are referring to a 1950 act by the UN which was called a "police action" but was actually a war against North Korea for attacking South Korean territory. Nothing with teeth in it has been done in the 63 years since that. Even you must admit there is something wrong with the so called United Nations condemning Israel in over 70% of its condemnations in the past half century.
Saudi Arabia won't let you bring a Christian Bible or Jewish Torah into the country, won't let you open a church or synagogue on its territory, has no rights for females, or gays, and has NEVER been condemned by the UN for human rights abuse! Bashir Assad, the Alawite Muslim ruler of Syria has killed 60,000+ of his own people, and no concrete action by the UN. What about Darfur? What about Rwanda? What about China/Tibet? What about Russia/Chechnya? Aren't these actions worse than anything Israel has ever done? What about the constant abuse and killings of Coptic Christians in Egypt? Isn't that worth a UN condemnation?
And as for the 1967 War (which obviously is a funny subject to you because you refer to lol a great deal) the Egyptians closed off the Straits of Hormuz to Israeli shipping, they moved 100,000 troops into the Sinai(not Gaza) along with over 5,000 tanks and over 400 jet aircraft near the borders with Israel...they demanded and received the complete withdrawl of UN "peace-keeping" forces on that border. They broadcast martial music day and night stirring up their people and armies to "drive all the Jews into the sea". If those are not acts of war, then I don't know what is.
I see absolutely no comparison between the troubles between Arabs and Jews in the mideast with your example of blacks and whites in the US. We had the peak of our racial problems in the 1960s, but it was never anything like what has been going on over there. Nobody wants to rid the US of blacks or drive them into the sea. I am white, but want the same rights(and obligations) for my black brothers and sisters that I have. To contrast, there is a constant (written)threat from Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran, and the Muslim Brotherhood(Egypt) which want to drive the Jews into the sea, and completely destroy Israel. In Arab schools, they teach their kids to hate infidels(Jews and Christians), and in their geography classes, the name Israel never appears on a map of the middle east. The problems in the mideast are much more complex because the Arabs/Iranians etc. control 99.8% of the land in the middle east, and they do not want the Jews to own even the 0.2 of 1 percent of the land that they now own. These are facts, not just opinions.
The problems are not necessasarily complex, in fact they are simple; After Partition Israel invaded Arab Palestine to expand it's borders, forcing many Palestinians who had lived there for centuries to become refugees. The Palestinians haven't forgotten that and that may be why Arab nations don't want Israel to have, what, 1% of the land? They saw what happened. As for the Black-White parallel that I stated, I stand by it because even today many Whites would like to see Blacks sent back to Africa and many Blacks would welcome a Black only homeland in America. My goal in this discussion is to point out that Israel is not blameless, the Israeli people want peace like people everywhere but they are victims, just as the Palestinians are victims of the Zionist movement to establish a Jewish homeland. I asked a Palestinian that I worked with back home "Why don't you people just accept Israel since it's a established fact?" He said that I didn't know what it's like to be kicked out of his land, where his ancestors had lived, to see all that his parents had worked for confiscated, and, to have that supported by a community of powerful nations operating from a sense of guilt. Yeah well, what was done was done and I live by; "What was, was and what is, is. Deal with the what is."
"After Partition Israel invaded Arab Palestine to expand it's borders, forcing many Palestinians who had lived there for centuries to become refugees." - that is not true, it's Arabs who started the war.
If Arabs had accepted what they were offered right away, they wouldn't end up as refugees, and if they had accepted Israel after that, they would've been able to return to their homes within months.
Why don't except you are all wrong and honestly don't know anything about these countries. Until you live in the area and experience first hand the lives of both the Palestinians and the Israelis both rich and poor all your comments don't mean @!$%#.
It was the U.N. which took the land from the Palestinians, by denying them equal territorial rights in the previous U.N. partition of the overall Palestine region. Only the U.N. can give the Palestinians the justice they deserve by finally repartitioning the overall Palestine region in a just and equitable way. - RC
Rick, you must have a very short memory. Until Yassir Arafat 'stole' the term Palestine, everything referring to Palestine & Palestinian was referring to the Jews in the area.
Additionally, the UN (btw, it wasn't really the UN, it was under British mandate) did give the Arabs a state when they created Israel.
You completely failed history. Please retake the course and come back and join the discussion. Thank you.
Kim, are you saying that after the British gave up the mandate over Palestine that the UN didn't partition, and didn't establish Israel as a homeland for the Jews, and didn't establish a Arab Palestine? I read that when you stated that it wasn't really the UN, it was the mandate under the British. What, the mandate did it?
There is only one place in the MIddle East where the Christian community is protected, growing and flourishing - and that is in Israel. In all other parts of the Middle East (and in African countries with Muslim majorities), including the West bank, Christians are persecuted and are fleeing, and the numbers of Christians is decreasing. In Bethlehem itself (controlled by the PA, not Israel), Christians are no longer the majority, but are now a very small minority. It has become a Muslim town. It is not surprising that Christian Arabs are protesting against the security barrier, they are probably afraid not to. It should be noted that many Israeli Jews are against the security barrier, because they believe that it unnecessarily divides the land of Israel, their ancient and present homeland.
thats not true, LIAR. YOU NEVER HEAR ABOUT THE ABUSES OF ISRAEL AGAINST THE CHRISTIANS BECAUSE OF THE ZIONIST controlled MEDIA.
churches and monasteries in palestine/israel are being attacked regularly by jewish israelis. google it. its out there for everyone to see.
All that is out there is a few of cases of graffiti, a few verbal assaults by Hasidim and one case of a door set on fire.
In Egypt, churches are being set on fire on daily basis.
Israel has a right to protect their land and their people since they border on all their enemies territory. Better a wall than a missle.
Lets build a wall through your house and yard and we can all have a great laugh.
george pauljohn ... When did the aliens bring you to Earth? Muslims have been slaughtering innocents for about 1,400 years to the tune of 270,000,000 - 400,000,000. Palestine doesn't exist to Muslims except as a whining point. Muslims recognize no country, only the Umma.
I would agree but they conveniently built the wall on 85% of the Palestinian land. Therefore its a land grab.
Last time I checked missiles can travel over walls and sometimes through them. Now that is some protection. It seems interesting that the "people of the covenant" have broken another covenant...the international covenant that forbid them to occupy said territory. So what else is new? The "people of the covenant" don't know how to keep a covenant and the same people who are also "the of the Law" don't know how to keep the Law. I recall there was a Law that was written in the OT instructing "the people of the Law" on how to treat the "stranger" that lived among them. Well I guess they forgot about that one too. Such a vicious cycle of two groups people who refuse to get along and refuse to take responsibility for their own wrong actions. Didn't "the people of the covenant" get separated from all of this land because they did live according to the Law in the first place? Im not talking just about the Ten commandments. Im talking about the Law of how to treat the marginalized in your society. The stranger, the orphans and the oppressed. It seems that most societies in the world refuse to learn from centuries old lessons.
Christine, you're right, Israel has a right to protect it's land and it's people, the land was given to them by the UN and what they conquered since is also their land. So then, should that be the end of it, or do the Palestinians have a right to take back what was taken from them? Well, from what I hear, from some Palestinians that I know, it's not the end of it, they will never forget just as the Jews will never forget the Holocaust. So, we're dealing with two peoples' who are characteristically volatile and operate on "Pay-back" and guilt. Good luck with trying to deal with them.
Problem is the Muslims will turn on the Christian just as they did in Egypt after the Christians encircled the Egyptian Muslim protesters to protect them.
There is a reason why the Palestinian Christian community is so small...
yeah, they were throen out of palestine by the israelis
Mostly, they moved to Israel.
Firstly, It's not called the "West Bank"... It's called Judea-Samaria.. "West Bank" was the name given to it by Jordan, in the mid-1950's, during Jordan's short 19-year occupation (1948-67) after FIVE Arab countries (Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Iraq and Saudi Arabia) sent their legions into Israeli-Palestine. Just after the UN resolved to split the country into TWO separate sates.. And believe me,,, even the UN referred to that as Judea-Sameria in their resolution.. "West-Bank" was never heard of.. Neither was "East-Jerusalem".. And Jews were always the majority of Jerusalem's inhabitants since the 1800's.. What this news article proves is that the major news services (A/P, BBC, Reuters, MSNBC, etc) does their very best to disassociate Jews from the very land they lived and practiced their religion in for the past 3,500 years.. In reality, almost 100% of these articles written by these wire services concerning Palestinian Jews and Arabs, are written in such a way to promote just such News Media Bias.. And when these articles appear in local newspapers, such as the the LA Times, Miami Herald, Boston Globe, or the Phila Inq; these newspapers do even more to promote such news bias.. You might think all Jews living in Israel came as refugees from Western Europe after WWII? But in reality, more than half if Israel's Jews came from Arab block countries after the UN mandate in 1948..
Factually you are wrong on so many levels. Where are you pulling these ideas from "Zionist of Dummies" text books ?
Ventura Highway?
IF only we could finish our security fence along the Mexican border. Israel is doing what she needs to do to secure her borders. She is tired of standing by while Palestine murders her citizens. At least she is doing something! Our own governemnt just stands by while terrorists, drug runners/dealers run over our boundaries and they just sit amd twiddle thier collective thoumbs. They say the stupiest things like 'our borders are the safest now than they have been in years! These people only want jobs. The borders are not safe, the only job these people want are the $$$ under the table jobs. We wnat the fences that were promised and we want all the damned tunnels collapsed.
Someone needs to remind these politicians that they work for us we do not work for them. So perform the work that is the will of the people you represent or get your free loading ass a real job off the taxpayers dime.
The mantra of Palestine is the destruction of Israel. The majority of the Palestinians and their leaders care only about their hate. That is what they teach their children. That is the only way they negotiate. Hate is the only virtue their leaders want for their people. They murder any leader that does not hate enough. That is what they sow, that is what they reap.
Then, after their hate and muder of Israel's families and children, they cry foul over an infraction by Israel, and the UN defends them like they are innocent children. They are children...of their own hate and murder-based values.
Israel MUST defend themselves.
Let Israel defend themselves, but they have no right to take the land and water which does not belong to them, in the name of security. They can build their walls on the land that the UN recognizes as belonging to Israel.
You sure as hell wouldn't let a neighbor build a separation fence on your land, would you? Neither should the Arabs. They have every right to attack the workers who attempt to build the fence, if the fence is being built on Arab land. If Israel intercedes, the UN should step in on behalf of the true owners and the US should bow out.
They are building on the land that really is theirs.
What UN recognizes is irrelevant. UN discredited itself the day they allowed Jordan to take over Jerusalem.
"And I, YAHWEH Shall Bring My People Israel Into Their Land and They Shall Build the Waste Cities and Inhabit them. They Shall Plant Vineyards and Drink the Wine Thereof and They Shall Plant Gardens and Eat the Fruit of Them. And I YAHWEH Will Plant Them Upon Their Land and They Shall No More Be Pulled Up Out of Their Land Which I Have Given Them." Says The LORD Thy GOD." Amos 9:14-15 YAHWEH'S Land, YAHWEH'S People, YAHWEH'S Eternal Coveneant. Glory Be To YAHWEH and YAHSHUA Forever!
Go Israel, you know what is best for your national defense. There is those (united nations) that want to see you, as well as the U.S. fail, crumble, and to be finished as world powers.
Absolutely, however Israel is not a world power. They are just trying to survive, surrounded by rabid dogs whose only value system is hate and murder.
They build those walls to encompass the wells. it's all about the water. how about i build a wall through your back yard? I bet you go right tot he gun shop to buy one. if u don't already have.
This is awful Christians should never side with or pray with muslims against Jews, it should be Christians and Jews against muslims, they are the pagan moon cult enemy for sure and they hate both groups. I support every action Israel takes to protect itself against the Arabs and so should Arab Christians.
Being this was reported by msnbc, nbc probably what really happened is someone they were interviewing said they once attended a Baptist church one time, years ago, so let's report that christians and muslums pray together.
armysf,
You are exactly right. You cannot underestimate the Propaganda of the Liberal Media. It makes the book 1984 by George Orwell read like a comic strip.
I understand Israel building this wall, it is not within their resources or abilities to judge who is a terrorist or not, so they must protect their own citizens as best they can. I do feel for the citizens who are caught up in this mess, and I find it comforting that Christians and Muslims can come together and pray together. I hope this continues and that this becomes the norm instead of the exception.
The reality is that Muslims attack Christians at will, and their theocratic Muslim governments sanction it. Just like the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, after gaining control of Egypt with the backing of our pro-Muslim president, under the thin veil of falsely portraying it as supporting 'Democracy'.
Palestinians supporting Hamas as their leaders is like the US electing a skin-head as president, and having the KKK run the military.
Israel is going through another holocaust but this time they are the nazis......jjejejejejejejeje
The muslims are the ones that continually call for the annihilation of Israel, and the murder of their families and children. That is what they teach their children, that is their murder-hate-filled belief system. They are the ones that murder their own leaders if they do not hate enough. Are you a muslim, blided by your hate-filled beliefs, or just a discipled tool of the Liberal Media?
I think they're known as useful idiots.
The jews and the moors.....the two sides of the same coin......jejejejejej
Israel is heading on a path of it's own destruction from self-inflicted wounds. Instead of trying to broker a peaceful solution, they are punishing themselves more everyday. Ever heard of South Africa, they've already tried this type of country. News flash, it doesn't work. It's only a matter of time before Jews are outnumbered in their own country. What then? More walls, more townships, more cages? The world has already shown it's grown tired of their racist country, the cracks are starting to show and the world will no longer give them a free pass.
Maybe higher walls with high voltage! What ever Israel needs to do to protect its people and its borders. America should be doing the same thing on our borders to protect us. Israel lives in a hostile neighborhood surrounded by animals that use their kids as disposable bombs. God be with them!
Some people....mostly eastern europeans.....who call themselves jews.....but who are closer to the polish....or the slavs.....are openly stealing the land from some people who been there for over 5000 yrs....jejejejejjeje.....a lot of them being the only true genetic jews in the land......jejejejejejej
"Some people....mostly eastern europeans.....who call themselves jews.....but who are closer to the polish....or the slavs" - you should tell that to all those who were organizing pogorms or to the Nazis perhaps.
European Jews did not get to choose weather they are Jews,t heir neighbor decided it for them.
"some people who been there for over 5000 yrs" - you mean traveling tribes who kept coming and going for 5000 years, but never chose to build a country there, until chaos of failed Byzantine made the area look like easy pickings.
However, you really should tell Hamas that they are Jews. Preferably, in person.
The madness of people who refuse to live together and cooperate is not isolated to the middle east; it is a world problem. What is worse in all of this is that with cooperation our world could be a beautiful place for all to live in. It is a shame the greedy fashion themselves leaders and sow their evil throughout. It is a shame that anyone can think God could possibly approve of our violence, our weapons of war, our hatred towards one another because of foolish beliefs. Freedom does not exist within the controlling axioms of any religeous leader and anyone claiming so is a liar. True freedom lies within each human soul as an inalienable right but there is a price; responsibility for oneself and others. Until the greedy are put aside, until we learn to follow the leadership of the divine it will not improve. Build a thousand walls ten thousand feet high and you will still not keep Death out but Love is easy to block.
This is STUPID and confusing.
The God of the Bible had a Son, John 3:16.
Allah never had a son.
WHO are these people praying to?
They don't even serve the same god.
God (if there is one) never had a son. Jesus was nothing but a prophet. He is dead and ain't coming back. Religion is nothing but man's 1st attempt at universal law. Which turned into the perfect scam.
Well said, OTD. Thank you.