linas: Speaking as a former Catholic and once brainwashed like you are currently about the Catholic church being the church that Peter built is nothing more than a centuries old man made catholic lie. Peter along with Jesus the Christ would disown this den of vipers you call a church. This church has so many doctrinal errors and man made traditions that anyone that has a half a brain would leave immediately. Read all of Isaiah 1. There are verses in that chapter which will give you a accurate description of what is currently going on in the Catholic church of today.

linasfriend,

The numbers don't agree. Faith is primarily a Third World problem now. In Europe and North America, particularly among those under 35yrs, people are becoming less beholden to organized faiths. The NONEs, in fact, are the 2nd largest demographic in the US now, second only to all Christians. Just think about that.

I also dispute the claim that Catholics number over a billion. Considering the bean counters don't include people like me, those who were baptized but now deny the totality of the Catholic faith, it's certainly less than they say.

While shamans will probably always be around for those who remain afraid of death, it's a fact that IQs are rising with each generation. As such, for people of goodwill, it's getting harder to justify belonging to an organization with so much baggage and, I might add, societally detrimental carry-ons to this day.

People are understanding that they don't need tradition, revelation, or authority to tell them it's wrong to hurt others. Empathy and critical thinking is the rational choice for a peaceful future.

No, the numbers don't add up. As Paul Simon sung, "faith is an island in the setting sun."

God Bless him.

linasfriend

While you and your atheist friends think it is the decline of the Church, I say you just keep thinking that way.Thousands are converting each year, in this country, and many more thousands throught out the world. The gates of hell shall not prevail, no matter how much you tip your glass. Christ is victorious

Quite the contrary. The church is seeking record declines in membership around the globe and in the United States. The church can/does some very good things. However, those things are mired in scandals and quite frankly, the sexual abuse the church has "HID" for decades will not be forgotten around the world for quite some time.

The church and all faiths (especially christian) had best consider modernizing if they want to stay in this century.

P.S. The church talks about helping the poor, and here the pope runs around in red prada shoes? Hypocrisy at it's finest.

Mexico's Communists

If only he could get the thieven Mexicans to pay for all the things they stole from America's poor and leave the United States

Why don't you share with us exactly how much they have stolen? Also, since 'god/jesus' helped the poor (and didn't ask what their race was), why would the pope 'get thieves ' to pay for something? I thought god/jesus said do not judge people, lest you be judged?

He is not "abandoning"the church. In other words, he will the big boss behind the curtain. All of you should just forget about getting any kind of intelligent person there once he leaves.

The catholic church is the club of International Pedophiles. Criminals can hide there because the Vatican is independent from the criminal courts of Italy.

God Bless him

Sure! he will be very much blessed after he turned his head to the other side to the sexual abuse of thousands of children.

His place is DOWN UNDER, and I am not talking about Australia.

"Decades" ItsaboutTime? Decades?? Even CENTURIES is an understatement! Try millennia.

May Sagan be with you, Atheist-6939529. May he be with you and guide you in the purchase of a new fedora.

FOR YOUR SAKE and only for your sake, I hope you're right. The rest of us will just carry on believing and trusting in a merciful and caring God.

If only he could get the thieven Mexicans to pay for all the things they stole from America's poor and leave the United States.

Does that include the areas of the United States we stole from Mexico?

Mexico's communists is a troll. Don't feed him.

leroy brown

"Decades" ItsaboutTime? Decades?? Even CENTURIES is an understatement! Try millennial.

I was being nice :).

The sooner this corrupt church takes its money and goes away the better for humankind.

@Atheist: I don't see a plausible reason to accept for one moment that if Big Faith disappeared, people would stop being charitable, kind and good willed.

Exactly right, except for... Communist China. North Korea. Zimbabwe. Cambodia. And just about every other nation that has banned religon.

The Archdiocese of NYC alone distributed 6.5 MILLION meals in 2012, plus another 500,000 meals for people dealing with Hurricane Sandy.

Logic and reason are both laudable, and faith should be sincere and not be mindless. However, to say that people would still be charitable even without faith is actually not logical. Most people care for themselves and their own first, of course, granted (and as it should be!). But what prompts an atheist to donate? Why cares he for his fellow man?

States with the least religious residents are also the stingiest about giving money to charity:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/20/study-less-religious-stat_n_1810425.html

Best of luck to the old dude... he did the right thing. Great backbone from the earliest age. Good training.

Mark,

If you need Big Faith, or a book, to prevent you from raping and thieving or otherwise being evil, then please, I implore you, continue tithing and reading. Without further clarification, you are apparently not cut out for being good for goodness sake!

As for me, I am fortunate to have a well developed sense of empathy and continue to hone my critical reasoning skills whenever I can, As such, I recoil at the thought of inflicting harm or evil upon others be they fellow humans or even non-human animals. I really do. Suffice to say, I don't have to believe in moral absolutes to make a moral judgment. Please dwell on that if you'd like to understand me and people like me.

"It seemed like the Lord was sleeping."

"There were moments when the waters were choppy and there were headwinds," he said.

---------------------------------

Just curious- was this happening as priests in his organization (over the last 100+ years) were abusing young boys and the powers to be were simply re-shuffling them from parish to parish with ZERO regard for the victims?

I judge people by their acts, not by their beliefs. A belief which leads to good acts is good. Kids belief in Tooth Fairy can be a very good thing. And dissing it in the name of 'truth' in front of the child is just not smart.

" he would remain at its service through prayer"

That and $3.75 will get you a cup off coffee at Starbucks.

He's a coward who could have done some good before running away.

The way I see it, is that he hid a bunch of pedofile preists whic in layman's terms=child molesters. He probably did a few on his own. NThat is not something that is forgiveabe. After all accordingto what I have read in the Bible it sounds like Babylo he great is the Roman catholic church. She has become a harlot to the highest bidder and assumed that she was controlling the house of YHWH! She has her price to pay and all of the commercial industries will weep at her feet. Because they know that they will no longer be able to suckle at the teat of all of the faithful has been giving so much money to that apostasy. Can't wait to see that bitch laid to waste! Then, Some of the people that have suffered under her fat feet will finally have some relief and get to know their father and his son again. The Catholic Church is an abomination! They murdered so many people and called it holy works. But, her turn is coming! Get out of her while you can. Just as Lot was directed to get out of Sodom and Gomorrah. The Vatican is a Usurper of power that never belonged to them. Burn in gehenna you evil people!

"For ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God(Rom. 3:23)."

The Pope is NOT God, nor does he stand in the place of God, he is just a SINNER like you and me!

Religion does deceive a lot of people, but you need Salavation, real Salvation, not religion!

And by the way: Satan "...is the god of this world(II Cor. 4:4)."

That is why there is so many religion, so much wickedness in the world.

The true believers are the ones who are persecuted!

As sheep to the slaughter! But Judgment Day is coming, God is going to have the last laugh!

Have a good day.

Those that rely on religion to have morals, have no morals. And as the catholic church has consistently shown--not only through their actions and inaction in more recent years with child molestation cases, but also throughout history at the time of the Crusades and the Inquisition--religion is no prove of morality (but often the complete opposite).

Also, wasn't this guy asking for people to pray for him like a week or two ago? Pretty self-concerned for a guy of faith.

PS: Also agree with Atheist-6939529 and hey day in heaven, and this institution has nothing to do with the teaching of Jesus even if people want to insist on calling themselves Christians. Its all about greed and political power, the very things Jesus threw out all those people from the temple for. But I suppose people just like to delude themselves.

Faith is something within you. Not something that just appears miraculously.

Gabriel:

"So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God(Romans 10:17)."

Always Chapter and verse.

Being kind doesn't require a God. It's the Vatican leaders who told the nuns to stop helping the poor so much and get people to go back to Church and stop using contraception...and act like browbeaten women while they're at it.

Mark from Bridgeport... The Archdiocese of New York may well have "distributed" 500,000 meals... but it didn't provide them. There is no Catholic charity farmlands raising the food. In 1993 I worked at a drinking water distribution center during the Flood of 1993 in Iowa, with a small contingent of the National Guard. We distributed millions of gallons of drinking water. It came from as far away as Pennsylvania in tanker trucks designed to haul milk. It came from the breweries is St. Louis, in quart beer bottles. It came in cans, it came in 5000 gallon plastic containers. However it came, we distributed it to a large population of people who needed drinking water, for weeks, until repairs could get normal drinking water supplies provided by the municipal water works up and running. There was no Catholic charity, there was no Red Cross... not until after the catastrophe abated. I and my fellows working all night were right in there with the rats, the snakes, the deer, the people and whatever else got flushed out by the floodwaters. Prayers didn't stop the flood coming, and prayers didn't make the repairs after the floodwaters receded.

There were plenty (thousands) of non church dependent folks, from all walks of life filling sand bags and laboring to hold back the flood. There were non church people providing sandwiches and coffee. But not the Catholic Church, and not The Red Cross. They showed up when the work was all done weeks later when the news cameras were running. They sure weren't around later either when people were mucking out with shovels and brooms and buckets. Oh yes, they might have been around somewhere, I don't deny that. But I happen to have been at the water distribution center located less than a quarter of a mile away from the governor's mansion, and even filled up water containers for the governor's use and his staff myself. Every night from 10 PM until 7 AM the next morning, for weeks, for thousands of people, for millions of gallons of drinking water.

The Catholic Church has no monopoly on good works, nor good deeds. The concepts you are trying to promote come from the days when scribes in monasteries wrote things about leaders in gilded scrolls and manuscripts to link their power bases between church and kings. Henry VIII cut the ties with the Catholic Church centuries ago. and the US cut it's ties with English rule, centuries after that, and centuries prior to this time. Gilded writing on animal hide vellum, in manuscripts, in monastical libraries, won't be the repository for the the history of the Catholic Church in 2013.

You should leave the man in peace, he had his reasons for why he wanted to step down and I give him a lot of courage for doing it.

I hope he has peace and quite for the rest of his days.

People need to stop making nasty comments about him and leave him be.

All of this organizational BS, based on a manufactured religious icon whom secular historians find scant reason to acknowledge as an actual person (much less a god-man). Amazing. Thank science, the tide of fairytale ignorance is beginning to recede, rendering inconsequential the handwringing over what a "pope" might or might not be doing.

"It seemed like the Lord was sleeping."

Yeah -- or, you know, not really there at all...

"Know God" == know nothing.

No God? No problem...

@Bridget-1999171

You should leave the man in peace, he had his reasons for why he wanted to step down and I give him a lot of courage for doing it.

Courage?!? The guy is hiding at the vatican to escape prosecution for child molestation charges. He is a coward that deserves no peace or quiet for the rest of his days.

While shamans will probably always be around for those who remain afraid of death, it's a fact that IQs are rising with each generation.

Except yours!

Referring to the many turbulent moments of his papacy, he acknowledge its moments of joy but also difficulty when "It seemed like the Lord was sleeping."

Maybe because God wasn't really talking to him in the first place, afterall he is not a prophet!

@irespond: Your comments show that the only thing you have heard or read in the news about the Catholic faith is the sex abuse scandal. Obviously, this abdication will mean nothing to you so it's always a good idea to think before we speak. Pedophilia is in all walks of life. ALL of them. I don't agree with moving the violating priests and not prosecuting them. Their hearts were never in the priesthood if you ask me. Just commom pedophiles that got in. This goes on in schools, college campuses, children's charities, homes by people of all faiths and people of no faith. The church does many good things, and they become overshadowed by these scandals.

I think the pope made an absolutely correct decision and I laud him for it. Brown shoes go with anything, but red shoes will clash with virtually everything.

Practising a system of ethics based on the promise of a reward, in Christians case an afterlife, is certainly preferable to practising a system of ethics based on it simply being the right thing to do.~sarcasm

He said he was not "coming down from the cross" despite renouncing his office,...

Whoa! So he actually believes he is Christ.

VisionStorm, who the hell made you judge and jury!!

@Atheist

I did not see an answer to my question on Monday. What happens at the end of life for an atheist? Do you just perish, and become worm food?

Of course they had done good things - do they have a choice? They can't jut rape and pillage. How blind are you people. It's OK that the Pope has covered up the scandals and it's OK that the sexual deviance goes on as long as the Church does many good things. Wake up. They change their rules like underwear. They are a business that worships a "MAN". It is pathetic and the sheep gather to honor a person or people that have deceived you and have been deceiving you for years. Keep giving them your money - guess what money won't get you in heaven. Buy your place in the church so your kids can go to private catholic schools and possible be abused..................stupid fools.

@PBgeorgia99

While true, there are pedophiles in all walks of life, very rarely do you find very large organizations with not only a tolerance for them, but also clearly supports them by hiding and moving them.

Remember: What you permit, you promote.

The church does not do any good things. People do good things in the name of the church and the church is completely unnecessary to do good things.

However, to quote Steven Weinburg:

Good people do good things, Evil people do evil things, but for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

When will the belief in monsters and invisible friends finally die out in this world?

Good to hear the Pope admitting atheists might be right.

Actually that is not what the Pope said that is what you heard because that is what you wanted to hear. As a Catholic who fell away from the Church and has reverted to Catholicism after 42 yrs. I hear a lot of people who said they were Catholics who fell away. I hear a lot of people who only took CCD long enough to get confirmed but put no more effort into CCD classes than they did in regular school. And believe me I can tell how much effort you put into that just enough to get a diploma and you didn't learn much there either. As an adult you did nothing to learn your faith and what the true beliefs of Catholicism are mostly because you do not put effort into anything. Your generation expects everything given you like an order at McDonalds. Before you continue to bash Catholicism it would smart to actually learn what you are bashing because most of the time you sound like imbeciles.

Defining terms is the first step in any effective discourse. I'm sidetracked by the use of the terms Athiest and (Big) Faith. Athiest is fun for me. A Catholic School brat, placed there on purpose by my professed Athiest Father (simply because he trolled the local schools in person and declared it was the best affordable education for us. "Those old girls really know their stuff" was his declaration at dinner - right out of Clarence Day. My Catholic Mother grinned wryly and was pleased) I got used to going toe to toe with him regularly. I finally got smart enough to realize that emotional wouldn't win, he had a mammouth IQ and I needed to prepare well. He capitulated and applauded when I launched "But you hate bigots: and athiest is a totally exclusionary term. You're an agnostic at best." He went on to expand his theories and I realized it was disdain for institutionalized religion and its bossiness in the face of flaws, lunkheadedness where true wisdom is concerned, and that was the engine driving a good 80% of it plus our human inability to define content dealing with infinity in universally understood language enough to cause mal-de-mer in a thinker. Same problem with the word "Faith". I think most mean "church". Here's a twister. In most "Faiths" it's my experience, among people I've met who would talk about theirs, that there are a variety of levels of Faith in Faith. Some very almost orthodox, shie away from declaring for 100% belief in a cognate God who can communicate in our words: so they substitute performing "by the numbers" and keeping faith "in the faith" and just following along and hope for elucidation and the gift of (again) "faith". I love what I once learned and find it disturbing that so much I've learned since I was handed actual societal reins and multi-layerd puzzles and conundrums,screw up the easy faith and clear love I felt when I assimilated my vision of God as a child. Made it until about "45" before too much debris was thrown in the pond to be content. But I'm still not ready to say Athiest: not even close. I can't accept abuse, but I'll stick with God: I don't understand string theory either. And face it, Catholic is like home for the Holidays. Aunt Tiddy might get so tipsy she falls on her ass and Uncle Roger is a blowhard who expounds on matters he knows nothing about, but if you look around the table, a gentle glow settles over everybody and the kids all get loved to pieces all day and most of you are still there and healthy. You got the roof, care, structure you could accept or reject, and formative support from their version of life. You're happy to curl up on the chintz covered couch and hug a stupid throw pillow and drink the grog.

This is mainly to 'Atheist' but it is also for those of you who find that faith is either unnecessary, inconvenient, or both. Also, I'm sure that some of you have come across this adage. It's not just applicable, but VERY applicable in this case. It goes something like this: Would you rather end this life having the soul-saving faith necessary for the after-life and possibly not needing it, or would you rather need it and not have it? I would pick the former as the latter describes a life of procrastination, indolence, rebellion, and misuse/abuse. Remember the parable of the Ten Virgins, half of which had the sufficient amount of oil trimmed in their lamps and half didn't. Which five enjoyed the fruits of their labors? Now, I too, used to be of the rc faith; however, I felt that the rc church did not help me to trim my lamp sufficiently and therefore I chose to align my soul with a church that not only promised to do so, but delivered. That other faith is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Faith is not an optional attribute to have in order to make it through these spiritually perilous times, it is an absolute requirement.

@Bridget-1999171

VisionStorm, who the hell made you judge and jury!!

Funny, I often ask the same thing about Christians, since they're often so quick to judge and sentece people to hell. But that's besides the point because I never implied that I was judge or jury. Only that the pope was hiding from them. But its good to know that hiding away from my (alleged) crimes is perfectly acceptable, if I'm the pope.

The Catholic Church is nothing more than a safe haven for sexual deviates, and pedophiles.

I believe in a higher power, and/or a greater spirit.

But, the Catholic Church doesn't represent it. It is more about getting money from you, raping little kids, and covering up for all of it.

I'm sick of watching and hearing about the hypocrisy year in and year out.

But then again, what would you expect from an organization who's leaders wear outfits that are more flamboyant than anything a Vegas showgirl ever wore on stage?

DockPete - I would suggest to you that God believes in all people - especially sinners. Just because someone states that they don't believe in God, doesn't mean that God has abandoned them! If you truly believe in a loving and forgiving God, will he not judge ALL people by the lives they have lead; not the particular church they belong to? I don't know Athiest, but he seems to live by his belief in moral standards, which is more than a lot of Christians, I know, do.

For all those who make excuses for the evil perpetrated by the pope and the RCC because of the "good they do", the devil too, offered to make bread from stone.

I find it interesting that we have evolved so much on this little rock in space, that we cannot see how insignificant we are. Each of us is on this blue orb for a very short time in the grand scheme of things, a fraction of time relative to all time that has passed and will pass. So why do we exist, how did we gain such intelligence, and what happens after we no longer exist in the physical, mortal sense of the word?

If I were to take my chances on whether or not there was a God, I would bet on a supreme creator if only because doing so increases my own prospects after I die. Am I afraid of death? No. Do I hope for something beyond death? Yes. I cannot succumb to the idea that I evolved to be an intelligent being only for the purpose of a short life on a small blue planet in one of billions of galaxies.

To the Godless, I hope you see that you really are nothing but a compilation of organic compounds and minerals, that will be recycled into something else once you no longer exist as a mortal life. There is however that certain something in each of us, that thing we call a spirit. That mysterious thing that makes each person different from another. Do I need religion to tell me that we all have one? No. I can see it in every person I meet each day of my life. It is this one thing that provides me the hope and makes me a betting man that there is a God, a creator, someone who has a better knowledge of why we exist in the first place. If I am wrong, then I will have lived and made my existence a good one, and nothing of my life will have been wasted, If I am right, then I will return to that creator and my life will be a tribute to good, a tribute to a God who gave me life.

VisionStorm, I never said it was, so do not be putting words in my mouth, but you seem to know a lot since you have an opinion about everybody.

lonereb

"... that is what you heard because that is what you wanted to hear."

The Pope said, "It seemed like the Lord was sleeping."

You didn't comment about what the Pope said.

Maybe there isn't a difference to mankind between sleeping and existing.

First of all you were not once Catholic. If you were you still would be. You were taken to Church by your parents and never opened your ears, mind, or heart. The Church is made up of humans, over 1 Billion of them. GOD gave humans free will. Humans sin. Therefore, it is only logical that a small percentage of Catholic sin gravely and like a cancer should be removed from the body. However, the true and lasting teaching and tenants of the Church still ring true. If you truly believe then you can not represent the true Church by leaving and therefore can not be an example to others. As a Catholic I can only pray for you. Pray that you use your free will wisely. You have joined the ranks of less than 9% of the world's population so even your statement about decline of the world's religion is false, just as your beliefs are false. You are correct that history shows great turmoil but throughout history the faithful persist and evil is defeated time and time again. You have given up, just what evil wants. I know in your heart you still struggle with your faith since every time there is an article about the Church you are here spewing falsehoods. If you had really completely given up on the Church you wouldn't be obsessed with it.

Jerry, there is only one other profession that usually sports red shoes. Did the Pope have red hair and a horn in his younger days? Did he fit in a tiny car with a dozen other "Popes"?

Ah Atheist dude, trying to be so upstanding and intellectual. Too bad all that pent up anger and hate inside you does come through in your comments. But that's ok. Oh, hey, vision storm, Christians do not judge and do not sentence anyone to hell. I think you are without much thought confusing judgement of actions with judgement of conscience. But thats ok too. Remember, people may share a common faith, but faith is a personal thing. Good luck with your lives, oops, no such thing as luck either is there. Well, just hope everything goes your way until one day when they shovel your ashes out in communtiy ash heap and forget you were here.

"However, the true and lasting teaching and tenants of the Church still ring true."

3thirty3, the teaching of the church, or the Christ? I have yet to see the church follow all of the things Christ taught.

I would suggest to you that God believes in all people - especially sinners. Just because someone states that they don't believe in God, doesn't mean that God has abandoned them! If you truly believe in a loving and forgiving God, will he not judge ALL people by the lives they have lead; not the particular church they belong to? I don't know Athiest, but he seems to live by his belief in moral standards, which is more than a lot of Christians, I know, do.

And you were given this information directly from god, not through the rumor grapevine, and know this to be factual? Guess I didn't get the memo.

Atheist,

If you were to believe in a God what would he look like?

"No, the numbers don't add up. As Paul Simon sung, "faith is an island in the setting sun.""

I would draw your conclusions to the descriptions of the last days as depicted in Revelation where the book talks about God's Holy Spirit being withdrawn from the Earth. I agree that the "love of many wax cold" and is parallel to God's Spirit being forced from people by their choices. God's government has never been one of force but choice...and He died so you can choose. No matter how your experiences in the Church of Rome turned out you and others have a choice. Man has always been the problem in the communication of God's will to other men. So much is added by men in an effort to preserve a denomination. The truth is God is truth, life, and love. He never intended for denominations to take the place of his actual followers. His followers worship Him in spirit by asking Jesus Christ to live in and through them and to bring actual change. Many in the worlds denominations "have a form of religion, but deny the power thereof" meaning the do not accept the teaching of Christ but more of men. This is the risk God took in allowing men to become part of his plan. It is my hope that you would keep an open mind to the possibility that your experience in the Church of Rome actually prevented you from knowing the fullness of Jesus Christ and what he wants to offer you. It is my hope that you would keep an open mind to the fact that religion has done a poor job of actually presenting the truth about God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit. All three are truly fond of you. I would recommend a book called "The Shack" by WM. Paul Young. It is totally out of the box thinking for most organized religions yet paints an accurate picture of God and his character. It is God's character that has been on trial all these years and he has been misrepresented by many flawed humans. That is why we need a clearer picture of who God really is and what he is actually up to. I challenge you to read the book and see if it does not indeed give you a picture of God you can trust. I know something of life change and like many I am a work in progress. I wish you well no matter your choice. True science allows for the possibilities without making judgments that a biased opinion sets in place first. I do not believe God and science are mutually exclusive but that God established the very laws that govern the visible and invisible universe. I also believe God created free choice to allow for the reality of love. Love can never be forced or it is not love.

@The_Messenger

Pascals Wager? Really? Wishful thinking does not make truth.

@Gofigureit

Gee, another condescending christian. When a christian states: "You are going to hell for saying that" they are making a metaphysical value judgement. Or in lay terms, they are judging someone else.

This is not done to be helpful but rather substantiate your own position and assume a position of superiority.

You slammed Atheist, but put no explanation behind why you believe what you believe. You simply made assertions.

@DockPete

I did not see an answer to my question on Monday. What happens at the end of life for an atheist? Do you just perish, and become worm food?

What happens to everything, atheist and religious, that dies....nothing.

Sleeping on the job? Really? You know, it sounds like we need to hire a new god. I had a feeling this god was losing it. Maybe he's getting too old, who knows. But when you've got a perfectly good pope just trying to do his job and tell people how to live their lives, god shouldn't be taking a nap! Darn god. He's the reason the pope quit, I just know it. I say we all get together and send god a message that sleeping on the job is unacceptable, and if it happens again, we'll be looking for a new god. Poor pope.

As a former brainwash anti-theist now open minded catholic, I say that any atheist who believe that the church is declining of its populous is gravely mistake the poll for the church. Secular religion is on the decline because they're minds are more open minded then even before. Logically speaking, Catholics are very diverse in education and very well educated because the word catholic mean "universal" which mean to absorb knowledge.

To me, Catholic education is the academic formation of students in the mind, heart and Spirit of Jesus Christ. Christ is the entire universe united to God. Everything and everyone in the universe, except sin, is united to God, and is therefore an expression of Christ, and that includes every subject in the academic curriculum. Both public and Catholic schools and universities teach math, history, science and other subjects. To learn and absorb these subjects is to become them. So, to become a mathematician, computer operator, nurse or electrician is to become an educated expression of Christ. Catholic education shows students that every subject is alive with the Spirit of Christ, so that every subject helps the students use their studies to animate and illumine the world with knowledge, understanding and love in the Spirit of Christ.

All education, public and Catholic, involves the formation of the human intellect and spirit. Even physical education and sports are aimed ultimately at sharpening the human mind and elevating the human spirit. The human intellect and spirit are educationally sharpened and enhanced by the use of reason.

We Catholics accept that natural reason can arrive at truth and understanding on its own accord. One plus one equals two for both the believer and the atheist. However, we also understand and appreciate that human reason is weakened. For example, we can make honest mistakes; worse, we can dishonestly pervert reason and logic to “prove” something we already believe. If we see that logic is taking us to where we don’t want to go, we can pervert our reason and fall into rationalization and outright lies. Just listen to the political rationalizations and lies that are filling our TVs, blogs and newspapers today. Sadly, many Catholics are falling prey to this perversion of reason and spirit. Catholic education knows clearly that our reason needs to be illumined and strengthened by the grace of God and the power of reason and logic since they are not denied of the reasonable explanation and logical motive. Plus the words "science" and "Church" are here understood in the following sense: Science is not taken in the restricted meaning of natural sciences, but in the general one given to the word by Aristotle and St. Thomas Aquinas. Aristotle defines science as a sure and evident knowledge obtained from demonstrations. This is identical with St. Thomas's definition of science as the knowledge of things from their causes. In this sense science comprises the entire curriculum of university studies. Church, in Concepcion with science, theoretically means any Church that claims authority in matters of doctrine and teaching; practically, however, only the Catholic Church is in question, on account of her universality and her claim of power to exercise this authority. The relation between the two is here treated under the two heads SCIENCE and CHURCH. Think about it, who idea is to say that science belong to the secular religion only and forbid any theist for using it explain their cause?? No one, in order to find evidence you need the tools to aid you in your search of God's existence BUT it's already here on earth so instead of criticizing it from TV go out there and see for for yourself.

Dude, I used to think like that as well but I realize God's miracle is very much real not because the bible say so but you can actually feel it and see it as well. Call me crazy (I know alot of fudie atheist will do) but science and religion are not at war with each other. :)

Gofigureit:

Christians do not judge and do not sentence anyone to hell.

That is an absolute falsehood. When I attended catholic school, the nuns told me, under no uncertain circumstances, if I ate meat on a Friday, which was a mortal sin, and died without going to confession, I would go to hell.

That's one of the problems I have with religion; they can never keep their stories nor rules, straight.

Even though prayer is in essence doing nothing. It is sickening that he asks the faithful to peel their attention away from those that truly need it, the sick and dying, the hungry and abused. And ask that they pray for him!?!

Whoa! So he actually believes he is Christ.

That's not what he meant. It's a reference to Luke 9:23 & parallel - Where Christ said we have to deny ourselves, take up our cross and follow Him.

When I attended catholic school, the nuns told me, under no uncertain circumstances, if I ate meat on a Friday, which was a mortal sin, and died without going to confession, I would go to hell.

That was the actions of a few who obviously didn't fully understand what they were teaching. Unfortunately in every society or grouping there are always people who take things to the extreme.

I also went to Catholic (primary and convent high) school and I wasn't taught any of that. I wouldn't trade my experience one bit.

Everything and everyone in the universe, except sin, is united to God,...

If god is the creator of everything, why sin? Why pain? Why evil? Why disease? Does he benefit somehow from the suffering of his creations?

It is much more comforting to believe those things happen due to the universal laws of nature and physics and not because of one sadistic creator.

That's not what he meant. It's a reference to Luke 9:23 & parallel - Where Christ said we have to deny ourselves, take up our cross and follow Him.

Interpret "what he meant" any way you choose and I'll just take the man for the words, and the Freudian slip, he spoke.

I also went to Catholic (primary and convent high) school and I wasn't taught any of that.

Then you must have attended after the church decided it was no longer a mortal sin to eat meat on Friday. All children taught catechism were taught eating meat on Friday was a mortal sin.

That was the actions of a few who obviously didn't fully understand what they were teaching. Unfortunately in every society or grouping there are always people who take things to the extreme.

Don't you tire of having to make excuses for your religion? They fully understood what they were teaching. Ask any child who attended catholic school in the 60's.

Father please forgive the people on this newsvine, for they know not what they do. The road to salvation is not necessarily the beaten path. It is long and narrow, but the reward is everlasting. You people speak of the Catholic Church dwindling. That may or may not be the case. I do not know and neither do you. Your determination to openly and publicly slander the Catholic Church and promote atheism shows your lack certainty in a higher power.

I will never understand how a person can be blessed with all he has and look at this beautiful world and say it was never actually created by a higher power, but rather just......appeared out of nowhere. Literally, the belief of an atheist is that everything came from.....nowhere. Therefore we do not actually exist since the universe came from nowhere. It was never created according to an atheist. We are in the matrix, I guess.....There is no logic there.

First off, just because a person doesn't believe in God/gods it doesn't mean the person has no faith. One can have faith in many things, and being at atheist just means that you don't believe in gods. There are as many types of atheists are there are Christians, and each person believes different things. So lumping all atheists together and saying they all believe there is nothing after something/someone dies is just not accurate in the second place. Some believe that there is energy that does go someone, but not to a place related to God/gods. Some don't, but some do.

Having morals isn't related to having God or going to church, either, whatever some want to believe. I know some Christians who are seriously horrible people and some atheists who are peaceful and live caring and wonderful lives. It isn't where you go to church or if you do go anywhere that defines who you are, but how you think and act and how you treat others. An angry atheist and an angry Christian are simply two angry people, and they aren't angry only because they believe or don't believe in gods.

It is really ignorant to say that one way or another is the only right way to think. You who explain your beliefs say, "to me", or "I believe" and that is the whole point. What I believe is my belief system, and whether I believe in God or not has no bearing on my life's impact on this world. I could go to church every day as I did as a child and not be any better or worse than I am now...to each his own.

As for the Pope, perhaps if the awful secrets and store of money would in the open the Church would have a chance, but that isn't going to happen, so the judging and the greed, the hiding and the pain will continue. That isn't bashing the Church at all, but seeing it for what it factually is. This isn't about whether people have faith or not, but whether crimes were/are committed and what is done about them. I am not just referring to sexual crimes, either. Too bad it will never be what it could be, but those are the choices made by the leaders.

"It seemed like the Lord was sleeping"

So the pope is blaming the lord for not intercepting the priests abusing little boys. When did it become the lord's job to tell them it was a sin? Taking a position such as "I'll keep doing this until the lord makes me quit" doesn't negate the sinful or illegal ramifications. Talk about blaming others for your failings - straight out of the Book of Obama.

And btw IslandGypsy, he did not say he was "taking up his cross" he was quoted as "not coming down from the cross". There is a difference.

Mexico's Communists @ #1.2: "If only he could get the thieven Mexicans to pay for all the things they stole from America's poor and leave the United States."

Y'know 'Mexico', I doubt seriously those "thieven Mexicans" could possibly "steal" as much as the United States stole from them! Like about one third of the mainland US territory - close to half if you count California!

I'm not sure just what you think was stolen from America's poor by Mexicans. Unbelievably poor paying agricultural jobs that most anglos won't go near? the chance to travel across the U.S. chasing seasonal farm work for that same abysmally low pay? Living on farms in sometimes horribly squalid conditions - at times without even indoor plumbing? Yehhh. I'm sure Americans must be chomping at the bit for a shot at that kind of opportunity. Oh, wait a minute. Mostly, they are NOT! Hispanics help to put the food on your dinner table so don't be too quick to put them down out of hand. They also helped to build this nation, I mean physically build the buildings, roadways, and other infrastructure when there weren't enough laborers available.

IMHO, a little less animosity and a little more reason might be in order.

JPC45,

Thank you very much for you piece of mind on this matter. It is very comforting knowing that there are other people out there who have felt the most sacred and beautiful presence of Christ in their life. God bless you!!!!!!!!!!!

"Thousands are converting each year, in this country"

• But many more thousands are leaving.

Does this put a crimp in his bid for sainthood?

What I see some are posting here is that many are basing the validity of their "faith" in the number (quantity) of believers in a certain belief system.

Also, what is strange about those who claim to be Atheists, is that they put their "faith" in humankind and secular science which is based upon "theories" and not upon proven facts. This is their religion even though they claim to be "non-believers". To some, their god is "Mother Earth", "Mother Nature", or such.
Anyways, how does the numbers of how many who believe a certain way verify that way as being the truth? It is sad that many people choose to follow such lies.

“Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it. ...Matthew 7:13-14
If there are "many" who follow a certain "way", trusting in a certain religion or belief, then you can be sure that it is not the truth that they follow.

As it continues on...., what are we also warn us of?

“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves... Matthew 7:15

Read the Bible. Compare what it says to what your current belief is.

@ ProudofUSA

... do you know what a scientific theory is? Your entire post was done in ignorance of its definitions. Atheism describes an individuals stance on one topic only, whether or not they believe a god exists. Everything else that person may believe in, is not a factor caused by them being an atheist.

Charlie,

May God bless you.

Roadkill,

Great question. I do believe there are pretty strict requirements before you are considered a saint. Its a very interesting topic. One of the requirements I know is that the person has to be dead before they can be declared a saint. Research this topic because it will be interesting to learn what makes a saint a saint. I do know that in many cases a saint is declared a saint because of some type of miracle that took place within their lifetime. I do not believe this is the situation for Pope Benedict, but I do not know. Research it! You wont be dissapointed.

I am not religious or athiest, only read a little of the text, but one piece struck me as rather odd. To hint or suggest god was taking a nap gives the impression god has human necesseties and frailties. This pope dude seems to have lost his sense of reason. His god is a figurehead for his religion, thats ok with me but my god created everything. If you disagree with me, ask yourself who or what did. Our brains just cannot comprehend an everpresent entity that is not god.

Our universe came from a big bang. Where did that stuff come from and how did it ignite. If you have a sensible answer share it with humanity

Your lord was not sleeping, Mr. Ratzinger. He just doesn't exist.

Yes there are more Catholics every year, but there are more people every year. The percentage of people who are catholic is actually dropping though, not to mention you count babies and children who have not actually chosen their religion yet.

And no i do not have a problem with religion, even if it does prove to be wrong the belief itself helps alot of people deal with problems in their life. I do on the other had have problems with organized religions. Religion and the world in general would be much better off if we lost the big organizations and just kept the religion.

As for the we are all sinners like the pope comment, I find that very insulting. Yes I am a sinner but I do not condone child molestation. And yes the Catholic church does, by shielding a priest from the law and moving them to another unsuspecting parish, they have chosen to condone the sin. Yes child molestation is a plague that pops up in all kinds of organizations, but when they choose to hide it to protect their reputation this is a huge problem.

And as for the thinker there that is a move used by all politicians on both sides of the isle. It works pretty well too just look how you seem to think only the other side is doing it. Fact is both sides are doing the same exact thing.

If it's any indication of trends in the church, when I was growing up, every family member (parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, etc.) including myself and older were practicing, devout catholics.

Today, beginning with my siblings, cousins, etc. and their offspring, not one is catholic.

"Thousands are converting each year, in this country, and many more thousands throught out the world."

linasfriend, please provide us with the source where you got this information. I have a feeling you are just doing your best to make them look good. I for one don't believe it, not with all of the things that are coming out in the open about those in charge of the church.

Bridget "You should leave the man in peace, he had his reasons for why he wanted to step down and I give him a lot of courage for doing it. I hope he has peace and quite for the rest of his days. People need to stop making nasty comments about him and leave him be."

I am sincere when I write this, so I hope you hear me out.

It is statements like this, as to why I cannot believe in GOD and cannot have faith.

I could never, in a million years, learn that someone I was supposed to look up to - a Pope, or priest, or whatever - and find out that they participated in sexual abuse of children. Furthermore, not just that they participated...for there will always be a bad apple in every bunch, but that the highest of the high church members - the pope - actively worked to cover up the entire thing, and did nothing to help the children who were sexually abused, and did everything he could to protect the pedophiles who abused children.

I could NEVER in a million years sit here, and say what you said, and pretend that everything is fine - when it clearly is not.

You dont have faith Bridget, you have indifference - indifference to the children who were sexually abused, so that your BELIEF in this HOLY MAN is not destroyed by the fact that he's not only human, therefore a sinner like everyone else, but that he's the worst kind of sinner - someone who would turn a blind eye to children being raped.

Just like you are.

Those who protect and defend the catholic institution by saying "but they do good things, too" remind me of those who protect and defend the drug cartels who also do bad things in order to protect their business, by saying "but they do good things, like building community schools and feeding the poor".

For years, Jerry Sandusky covered his evil by "doing good things" for the youth.

It doesn't take much dirty money to buy people's loyalty and devotion, does it? Would Jesus be pleased? It's highly doubtful.

you better hope you are correct in your thinking/learning. no one will know whether or not all this is true unless they die. where would caution then lead the one who is still alive?

i say again, you better hope you are correct in your thinking/learning.

It's not my faith that makes me a good person, just how it's not faith that makes people good or bad. I've met "devout Christians" whose actions contridicted Jesus's teachings. I've met "Athiests," and Pagans (Non Christians.. and people of the Pagan religion) who were more "Christ-like" than some of the more vocal individuals in my church.

I was raised Catholic. I was embeded with the traditions so much that I actually feel physical anxiety and guilt if i don't attend at least Ash Wednesday, Easter and Christmas. But I don't consider myself Catholic.. Just "Culturally Catholic." I consider myself Agnostic. I have a Faith to a higher Power which more or less resembles the God that was taught to me... but are they the same God as yours? No. I also believe in Karma, I believe I don't need to recite a prayer to talk to my "God". I believe in the power of the individual and in the Community to do what is good for each other.

Even if the Catholic Church was willing to accept me back, I still wouldn't because I would not be able to conform and Limit myself to their requirements. I've benefited and became at peace with myself and with others through some Buddhist Teachings, I've seen beauty in Muslim Faith. I've found strength and reason in Jewish proverbs. I've found humanity and humor in the book of the Great Spaghetti Monster. Besides, there are so many things that they do that I do not agree with. I'm not just talking about the sexual abuse and pedophilia.. but also their stance on women's rights, treatment of the LGBTQ community and so much much more.

My point is.. One doesn't need a stated religion to be a good person. One doesn't need a Faith in a specific thing/idea to be Strong and Moral. It is good that the Pope is Stepping down. He just wasn't popular. (Un)Fortunately that is what is needed in this day in age, and I think he was begining to realize this. The Pope NEEDS to work with the people. It's the PEOPLE that make a religion and faith strong and People and beliefs are changing rapidly. A century ago, a Pope could be seen as an island in an enclosed lake; A calm Respite. But now he is but a tiny island in the middle of a turning ocean.

@realofit

If you believe in an omniscient entity, if your only reason to believe is this wager. This entity will see through it, hence omniscience.

The catholic church needs to be dissolved. PERIOD!! The church of Rome if one a the biggest reasons why I despise organized religion. On top of the deliberate cover up of their priests engaging in sexual abuse among children.

To losghost! How sad for you that you and others like you have nothing worthwhile to wish for, then! Pascal's Wager! Totally relevant in this case. At least he had something worth waging. Why can't you see beyond your cornea and see that there is more to life than what the five senses can pick up?

The_Messenger:

Would you rather end this life having the soul-saving faith necessary for the after-life and possibly not needing it, or would you rather need it and not have it? I would pick the former...

So your choice is purely CYA, hmmmmmm?

How sad for you that you and others like you have nothing worthwhile to wish for...

Actually, believing this life is it and there may be nothing else, increases my "wishlist" to enjoy every moment possible, rather than limiting myself and wasting time worrying about what behavior may keep me out of heaven; i.e., skipping a Sunday mass (mortal sin) to go fishing.

Thanks to leaving the RCC, fear and guilt does not control my life any longer. I am free.

Farewell, irrelevant old man, and to your increasingly irrelevant "church" cult, too. Don't let the golden doors hit you on the way out.

Oh, wait, you'll be sequestered for life in the Vatican!

Enjoy your sentence. Perhaps you'll get a room with a window... but I hope not.

Seriously, Mexico's communists is a troll. Don't feed him.

@Atheist: If you need Big Faith, or a book, to prevent you from raping and thieving or otherwise being evil, then please, I implore you, continue tithing and reading. Without further clarification, you are apparently not cut out for being good for goodness sake!

As for me, I am fortunate to have a well developed sense of empathy and continue to hone my critical reasoning skills whenever I can, As such, I recoil at the thought of inflicting harm or evil upon others be they fellow humans or even non-human animals. I really do. Suffice to say, I don't have to believe in moral absolutes to make a moral judgment. Please dwell on that if you'd like to understand me and people like me.

MANKIND is not cut out for being good for goodness sake! As I said, North Korea or Zimbabwe today are proofs. You cannot show me a single country on the face of the Earth that has managed to ban religon and yet still be charitable. Whenever and wherever mankind sets the limits, there are no limits.

Bully for you, but we're talking about society at large. And you've failed to say how many people you've fed this year.
I understand you, and please take pains that I am not impinging on your right to not believe, nor denigrating you because you don't. I have, however, made a valid (and cited) point against your original premisent which has gone unanswered.

@Steve Herbert: The Archdiocese of New York may well have "distributed" 500,000 meals... but it didn't provide them. There is no Catholic charity farmlands raising the food.

And there is no Federal farm land in the US, either. Yet we have foodstamps. Or do foodstamps not feed people? I'd think if someone feeds somebody out of their pocket, that's charity. I didn't realize that I'd have to grow food myself to be charitable!

First of all, thank you for your service during the flood! I can't really speak to a specific instance 20 years ago in a state over 1000 miles away, but I did find this:
http://www.nytimes.com/1993/08/03/us/the-midwest-flooding-how-to-make-donations-to-help-flood-victims.html

There were plenty (thousands) of non church dependent folks, from all walks of life filling sand bags and laboring to hold back the flood. There were non church people providing sandwiches and coffee. But not the Catholic Church, and not The Red Cross.

So: you went around asking people their religious affiliation while they were working during won of the worst floods of all time in the US? Fascinating. (I can understand not seeing Red Cross branded gear and concluding there was no RC there. But I doubt that the Church of Saint Wecelesas has banners and gear for this sort of thing.)

The Catholic Church has no monopoly on good works, nor good deeds.
No, of course not! But it does far more than most people think. That's all I'm on about.

Gilded writing on animal hide vellum, in manuscripts, in monastical libraries, won't be the repository for the the history of the Catholic Church in 2013.
That depends if we keep the electricity on, now doesn't it?

MANKIND is not cut out for being good for goodness sake!

The religious have their god, their creator, their role model to thank for that.

The religious have their god, their creator, their role model to thank for that.

Well of course! Otherwise there would be no free will, and the areligious wouldn't be able to be areligious...

Well of course! Otherwise there would be no free will...

It takes a sadistic mind to purposely give humans free will; like giving a toddler a loaded gun and letting him decide whether or not to play with it. This is who the religious aspire to spend eternity with...no thanks.

Free will is an illusion, and gods are imaginary.

Free will is an illusion, and gods are imaginary.

Ah, an anti-Plato!

Greg-2438150 - Free will is an illusion, and gods are imaginary.

what you've posted doesn't seem like an illusion to me. did someone force you to type that out or did you do it of your own accord?

Debi-1314897 - It takes a sadistic mind to purposely give humans free will; like giving a toddler a loaded gun and letting him decide whether or not to play with it. This is who the religious aspire to spend eternity with...no thanks.

so you would rather have someone purposely control what you do?

so you would rather have someone purposely control what you do?

If it meant living in love, happiness, peace and without pain, the very things the religious god supposedly espouses, then my answer is "yes", I would rather have someone purposely control what I do. I wouldn't have anything else to compare it with or know anything different.

It seems like a no brainer, unless of course you are just as sadistic as your creator and enjoy living in pain, murder, war, greed, corruption, hurt, evil, etc., etc., etc.

realofit of course I wouldn't expect you to realize that it's an illusion. That's why you typed the childish post.

I take great pride in the fact that my moral compass is not predicated on a reward system. I treat people with kindness and respect because that is what a person does in a civilized society. And I don't need religious beliefs to dictate this behavior. It always amazes me that people feel that those of us without religion are inherently evil. I have been told many times by my Christian friends that I am the most "Christian-like" person they know. But goodness and a generous spirit are not the private realm of the religious. Often, sadly, quite the opposite. I am proudly god-free. The mystery of life remains that...a mystery to marvel and enjoy. Not a bad way to live, I assure you. And it also frees me from the need to make apologies for the actions of my religious leaders.

Then you're not 100% God-free, are ya?

@JPC45

Simply asserting that good works and generosity is to not be 'god free' is simply untrue. If you cannot be good and generous without your belief in god, it is you who is to be pitied.

losghost, I don't recall anyone telling me I was going to hell for saying anything. Maybe in your world, I have no idea. And you ask for reasons why someone has faith. If you don't get why that question makes no sense, then you just don't get it.

Hey, do you happen to know who said "99% of all we know about science is already fiction"? Go hunt it down and be surprised. A couple years ago they did a question and answer survey of who were considered to be the top five percent of scientists from different fields all over the world. Almost all of them agreed about their belief in something higher than science.... I'd type out their rational, but better for you to go learn for yourself. Have a great day.

I am with you 100% rgngreco. I donate to charity, volunteer and am generally a kind person to others, and I don't believe in a higher power. To the person several comments back that said look to North Korea and China if you want to see what a religion-less state is like I would like to point out that the USA is (purportedly) not a religious state. We have separation of church and state as one of our basic tenets. Does that mean the USA is evil? And to the commenter who asked if atheists are just worm-food after death, I would like to say yes indeed. We are all just worm-food after death. Accept it and live a good life just because it's the right thing to do.

rgngreco @ #2.1: "I have been told many times by my Christian friends that I am the most "Christian-like" person they know."

I am always amused be people who associate Christianity with Christ in the modern society. What your friends should have said was that you are the most "Christ-like" person they know. Since most Christians, regardless of their affiliation, do not bahave in a Christ-like manner. Nor do they follow the teachings of Christ as related in the Bible.

And, as you so succinctly pointed out, "...goodness and a generous spirit are not the private realm of the religious. Often, sadly, quite the opposite."

Of course, I don't know that you can truly be god-free. I don't know what God is other than an almighty energy and force beyond the comprehension of mortal man. But I do know that force courses through everything in the universe. Sadly, just as there is a moral imperative to "do good" there is also an emotional drive to overcome and overpower. So we find ourselves constantly at war within our own spirits to "do good" and to "overpower". We are constantly in a situation of making war while trying to make peace. Always it will be thus, I am afraid, regardless what one believes.

CreditWhereCreditIsDue Why are you pitying me? Don't you know that pitying someone is a sign for sorry for someone who does, BTW, help other people regardless of faith yet you pity me because the world needs a good role model? I help an atheist getting through problems because he was criticized by fudies, bible thumbers protestants yet I'm catholic and the reason I do good is to show mankind that any misdeed they cause can be replace with good deeds. I love helping people because no one else will and I don't do it because "I want to" that's selfish. Hell, I even help a homeless who doesn't share share my faith but I help him regardless. Think carefully of what you say before you judge me, ok?

I don't do it because "I want to" that's selfish.

That is not being selfish, any good person should want to help others, regardless of whether others do or not. I don't know if it was poor choice of wording or bad motives. But honestly you sound very disingenuous, and that your motives for doing good is only to show people your religion is better. Son't get my wrong I don't know you, you might not be like that, but the way you said it makes you seem like that is the case.

Michael - thats how I read it too.

JP also seems to think if he doesnt do it, no one else in the WHOLE ENTIRE WORLD WILL.

Only JP.

Thats some kind of arrogance.

JP - here's something from your bible you might want to read over and over until it sinks in:

Matthew 6:1-4

“Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven. “Thus, when you give to the needy, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

and this one reminds me of the sexual abuse scandal, and the indifference by catholics worldwide

Luke 10:29-37

"But he, desiring to justify himself, said to Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?” Jesus replied, “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and he fell among robbers, who stripped him and beat him and departed, leaving him half dead. Now by chance a priest was going down that road, and when he saw him he passed by on the other side. So likewise a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a Samaritan, as he journeyed, came to where he was, and when he saw him, he had compassion. ..."

@JPC45

Your response is exactly why I pity you. Michael and Jessica have already pointed out why.

Wow, already judging me then you're reading my comment as if I were I'm aggressive and I'm not and please don't quote me from the bible or criticizing for me doing good because of religion. I'm not brainwash or be told what to I have freewill and again you shouldn't pity someone because it Bad for the physiology of the pityer and unwelcome by the pitied therefore I felt judged and misunderstood.

Life can be wonderful for some of us and for others, extremely tough. It is actually the tough part, our problems and challenges, that will define who we eventually become.

The great role models of this world can play a major part in our lives because we can learn from them and be inspired by their qualities, traits, stories and challenges.

Every single one of us will have problems and challenges in our lives. To overcome them we will need to dig deep and find all the strengths that we have - determination, persistence, resilience, courage and a positive mental attitude.

Dig even deeper and you will find the most wonderful part of you - the human spirit!

True role models are those who possess the qualities that we would like to have and those who have affected us in a way that makes us want to be better people. To advocate for ourselves and our goals and take leadership on the issues that we believe in. We often don't recognize our true role models until we have noticed our own personal growth and progress.

Micheal and Jessica don't have the facts to judge and misunderstood me for something they thought I was doing good for. I do good because this hateful world need a good role model for helping others

Shame on you, what good would come from it, They were his personal papers. The press which hates christianity, and the catholic church especially you most likely twist everything. He is a brilliant man, and his writings are awesome. Yes the church needs a shaking up, especially catholics who voice their opinion without knowledge.

The pope ordered the report on what has become known as the Vatileaks scandal last year after documents became public that deeply embarrassed the church, including some of Benedict’s own correspondence and letters alleging corruption. The report found evidence of corruption, blackmail and a gay sex ring, and that it triggered Benedict’s decision earlier this month to give up the papacy.

By all means keep secrets that way NO problems are solved and keep your head in the sand!

Wow, Linasfriend...you are exactly the type of sheeple that the RCC needs to stay relevant. They are his 'personal papers'? You mean the ones which may very well detail sexual abuse against even MORE children, corruption, lies, etc.? And you seem to think that's OK that no one else sees them? What does he have to hide??

Tell me, if a President of a corporation...or even better, let's say the leader of the Boy Scouts...decided to withhold potentially damaging information which may show that they swept all of this abhorrent behavior under the rug, would you also give them a free pass because they wore red Prada shoes and ran around wearing a white dress and hat?

Brainwashed idiots like you make me feel glad that I left this hypocritical organization YEARS ago.

Make sure you keep dumping even more of your hard-earned money in the 'collection' basket to help the RCC hide even more of their heinous crimes.

linasfriend

The press which hates christianity, and the catholic church

Really? The rcc gets more coverage, positive coverage, than all other denominations combined. In addition, it fails to cover the extent of the child abuse in the rcc. It took years for a news organization to cover the first law suit because the press feared the power of the church. The reporters in the region were roman catholic so they felt guilty about exposing the criminals and their crimes rather than feeling obligated to report on a known danger to children.

Any time there is even an attempt to kidnap or assault a child by anyone other than a priest, it makes the news so that parents can warn and protect their kids. This bias of the press toward the rcc drives me crazy. My husband works in the news industry and I complain about it all the time. However, Irish catholics in Boston, even the ones that have left the rcc, are so completely brainwashed that they defend and protect the rcc. My husband is a recovering roman catholic, belongs to another church, sees the bias, does nothing about it.

bishopaccountcbility.org "survivor's accounts

Since I am atheist I of course will not pray for him, I am just wish he would go away. The world is screwed up enough without him.

With your head in the sand it is easier to pick your pocket.

@Linasfriend

If you think just because a document was personal it shouldn't be put under scrutiny? If that was the case, then you're in support of ALL illegal activities?

Why are so many people who are disliking Christianity are the ones who gets the thumbs up while the rest of us gets deleted? Sounds bias. SMH and sad too

As just one imperfect person here, after reading a bunch of your comments, why are you people so intent on having such a great fight within yourselves over something you do not believe exists? Or, maybe you should be asking yourself that question.

@JPC45

So you jump to the persecution conclusion? How about evaluating why they may be getting thumbs ups?

linasfriend It would serve the purpose of being honest pretty sure they teach about that. I certainly would never belong to any organization that can not admit to its own failing. Every human has failing and all organizations including religions are run by humans. An organization un-willing to admit to its ailing will never fix them.

Gofigureit "As just one imperfect person here, after reading a bunch of your comments, why are you people so intent on having such a great fight within yourselves over something you do not believe exists? Or, maybe you should be asking yourself that question."

Exactly what fight am i having WITHIN myself?

When I engage in debate with people who believe in GOD, I like to speak to them as if they might be right. So if you believe in GOD, im going to debate you on the things YOU believe...and call out what I think is hypocrisy and craziness.

If I say "well then why did GOD do this" - im not saying it as if im internally conflicted, i'm saying it because YOU believe it.

It's called respect, and being able to speak to someone on their own terms.

It's something that believers cant really do...because they cant, even for a nano-second, suspend their belief.

I have absolutely no proof that GOD does or does not exist. I just happen to believe that he doesnt.

It's just a belief, it's not fact or proof.

The thing you seem to fail to realize is that we are all just rolling the dice.

You believe in GOD - but what if the way you believe isnt right, what if how you believe is all wrong?

What if Judaism is the one and only path to GOD?

You're just as screwed as I am, friend.

Make no mistake about that. We're all rolling the dice, and you might have it all wrong.

@CreditWhereCreditIsDue Why should answer that when I already know? People here in this forum are the ones against "religion" (aka Christianity) are supported by what the media display and doesn't display. If the media were to write a news about an atheist attacking someone they won't post it because the whiners of Separation of Church and State and ALCU will sue them knowingly they are funded with million dollars so they can hire a bias lawyer, with a bias judge, bias jury, and get away with it. Sadly the media is a cowardly system that refuse to ask real questions and will not post real news because of they don't want to lose their best anchor person, reporter, and their station.

I wish Pope Benedict a long, rest of his life in prison for his role in the church's cover up of child sexual abuse incidents among his clergy.

Leroy another ignorant comment, more children are molested in public schools then by priests .

linas,

When public school teachers sexually assault school children, neither school administrators nor teachers' unions cover up the crime. The miscreants are held to account and shipped off to Big House. As to your assertion that more crimes are committed in PSs, your claim is unsubstantiated given that the numbers of kiddoes raped in parochial schools has been swept under the rug for centuries, while crimes against public schoolchildren make the front page over night.

Maltinda hun you wanna think about that a little more. Schools and institutions public or private that deal with children's abuse and even murder have also been known to "cover it up." Just think about it. The most recent case that i am aware of is in florida state reform school for boys that was closed in june of 2011 and had been opened since 1900. That's over 100 years of murder rape abuse that has just been exposed so maybe do some research hun. The name of the article is, "Abuses at infamous Florida boys reform school even more widespread, report says."

When public school teachers sexually assault school children, neither school administrators nor teachers' unions cover up the crime.

Malinda Bull BS I had two teachers in High School that inappropriate contact with girls. One had done right sex with them. This was known and reported but nothing was done for years. Heck there was even a cop on the force that did the same thing with pictures to prove it. Maybe now things are cracked down on better but 20 years ago they were not. Makes me sick to think of the young girls that had those pigs hands and what ever else all over and in them. Abd it was exactly the school admiins and other teachers that covered it up in the school. With the cops everyone turned a blind eye to it. Not until the state finally got involved did the cop have to resign but he was never charged. Heck he even used to beat the shlt out of his wife who he married at 18 when he was 48, nothing happened.

Do a search and look at the number of cops that are arrested every year for pedophillia, now you can double or triple that(maybe more) for the ones that are covered for. In a clan there is usually someone covering for the sicko even if they are not part of it

Geez...we are having a discussion to point out what section of society has the most amount of sick sons-of-bitches that molest our children? I have to go along with one of the previous posters who points out that the majority of the molestations or flat-out rapes done by priests were never reported, or if they were, they were then covered up by the bishops, the cardinals, and so on and so on. The priests were usually just transferred to another parish or were advised to just "stay away" from children. Which, of course, didn't happen, but nobody followed up on these things.

Unfortunately, it is true that we have school teachers and police officers, etc. that molest children, but when the incidents are reported something is done about them. This was not the case with the incidents involving priests up until just the last 10 years or so. The church is having to pay up and whatever the pope is trying to hide now would probably cost the church a big chunk of change or just point out, once again, how corrupt this money-making machine they call the Catholic Church is.

It is very sad because I don't think this is how Jesus Christ wanted us to spend our hard-earned money. We were supposed to be really helping the poor, not building an entire city of gold for a few priviledged individuals to live in and be protected from any outside judgment. And, in the this country we aren't even allowed to consider the poor...they are just considered the "takers" who need to just pick themselves up and "get a job"; this wise thinking comes from Catholics and Christians alike. I have to think that Jesus is just shaking his head. I do not believe in organized religion, nor do I believe that you need a church to pray to God or Jesus or whoever else you decide to pray to. The idea of having a "meeting place" for people to gather and worship isn't exactly what it started out to be. For some reason Catholic leaders seem to need gold-plated everything to pray to God or celebrate Christ. Also, every time you see a Christian televangelist they are sitting in golden chairs, in churches that cost millions to build (and to keep going), and they keep asking their "partners" to send them money to help the poor throughout the world. Of course, that money from their "partners" helps pay for their luxury automobiles, private planes, multi-million dollar homes (a few of them), and lots of gold and diamond jewelry to top it off. Again, I just think about what Jesus would think. These so-called "people of faith", specifically all the popes, need to take lessons from great people of giving and peace like Mother Theresa and Ghandhi. Golden attire does not make a man or woman "Godly", in fact, I think it takes away from the message of love that Jesus wanted us all to share.

And what's your point fishman and Ivory? That's it's okay because others do it too?

And what's your point fishman and Ivory? That's it's okay because others do it too?

They were simply saying that what Malinda said wasn't true.

A typical case in point was the Penn State coverup until it was busted wide open. According to Wiki:

Sandusky was indicted in 2011 on 52 counts of child molestation dating from 1994 to 2009, though the abuse may have dated as far back as the 1970s.

It's absolutely true, Pedophiles are everywhere...in every profession, and especially rife in professions closest to children.

How that excuses the actions of the priests, and especially the actions of the pope in covering this all up...im not sure.

Two wrongs dont make a right.

Perhaps this is just how the world is...we arent interested in cleaning our own houses, just other peoples. I should not be shocked anymore by indifferent catholics who think it's an abomination that im a lesbian, but doesnt seem to see anything wrong withe priests raping children and a pope who covers it all up...because well, other people in the world are pedophiles too.

Nope, i'll never wrap my head around the indifference, by supposedly compassioniate christ loving people.

Look up mow many children are molested in Public schools. dip. Judge not least you be judged. You write as if you know exactly how a pedophile operates, humm. correction over 150,000 fans just in St Peters Square.

linasfriend...

I find your conversations about a bit maddening.
Are we now comparing where there more cases of sexual abuse towards children exist almost like a competition?
In any circumstance whatsoever is even ONE case of sexual abuse ok! Of course not. Wouldn't you agree?
Our focus should be on compassion for the victims and action for the abusers to stop and be punished
for their crime. As you are a believer in the CC shouldnt you be doing everything in your power
to keep it virtuas and free of corruption.

I noticed you had not made a single gesture of compassion towards Frank LaFerriere's story.
If there is even a chance that it is true shouldn't we all at least say. Gee, I'm sorry that happened to you...
Then state our opinion freely about the CC?

I'm all ears...

Anyone who hurts an child is wrong. anyone who covers it up is just as bad as the perp. With that said our government tries real hard to cover everything up so we in turn are helping to cover it up by not doing anything. hum. Jesus talked about the good samaritan and how he did something about it when the priest and the rabbi just walked on by. Are you gunna be the one in power and do nothing or just sit here on web sites bitching and complaining or are you going to help ?

excellent commet greg 123. I'm a "lite" christian which in my world means that I keep my relationship with God private and I bypass all this organized crap ESPECIALLY in the united states.

We have distorted islam in the west for example and look upon those people as terrorists etc. when we all know that it isn't true. Most Muslims are good people and most do not believe the extremes that we highlight for them such as the 72 virgins and all that stuff. Most Muslims don't want to blow up anything much less a conversation. I shudder when I see and hear us denegrating them shamelessly and needleslyI speak from direct experience having spent years in the Arab world.

Now, when the church is at its worst time ever, I actually hear a deafening silence from Muslims about this issue. What interests me is the behavior of NOT insulting us out loud like we do to them. They could have called organized christianity the religeon of molestation if they wanted to . They wouldn't be wrong as it appears that a lot of these western priests are involved. Seemed like the church sheltered them too.

I don't want to sound like I'm abandoning my faith but I'll tell you that I'm ashamed of talking about it and try to point out the difference between true pious behavior and pretending to be a christian while mouthing off against your percieved enemies while carrying guns and letting our children be molested.

Do yourself a favor folks. STOP following whatever religous leaders you fancy (morons like john hagee or jimmy swaggart etc.) and turn to the orignal source. Try to use your faith to do good in the world while not speaking ill will of others. If we only did that part well, we might have been able to defend our image of being murdurous thieving crusaders who sacrifice their own children to the church ...

Ok. Don't attack personally or I'll withdraw my other cheek and show my mean side. If you have something to say address my POINT and don't insult me like a jew would.

linasfriend

Look up mow many children are molested in Public schools. dip. Judge not least you be judged. You write as if you know exactly how a pedophile operates, humm. correction over 150,000 fans just in St Peters Square.

Wacko Jacko had millions of fans too! People who turn a blind eye and DEFENDS anyone who molests children anywhere and calls themselves a a good catholic proves my point. Being a good catholic is not necessarily the same as being a good Christian or even a decent human being!

• We will never know how many kids were molested by catholic priests because they ARE KEEPING IT A SECRET!!!

Creepy. These popes and their worshippers make my skin crawl. Evil incarnate.

Conrad I'm going to insult you because that is exactly what you did to a whole religion. You are a jerk. You say don't insult but then you make a claim that Jews would. Well I quess maybe you are a muslim or muslim lover and hate all the Jews. I'm neither a muslim or a Jew but you go off on a rant about how good muslims are then insult Jews. Get a life, you are most definitely part of the problem. Sorry I'm not going to just forgive you for your assine statement. Some of the nicest people I know are Catholic/christian, Hindu and Buddist. Most of the Muslims I know only care about there own, not all but most

Creepy. These popes and their worshippers make my skin crawl.

Patter Pope John Paul II was was of the most caring and nicest person there was. I'll admist I don't care much for Pope Benedict XVI but I don't know for sure if he has done bad. Be careful who you cast stones at

Linasfriend

Tens of thousands of children were raped and abused in the orphanages alone. For every victim who comes forward, it is estimated there are 30 -200 more victims of that one perpetrator alone, depending upon how old he is when he is caught AND EXPOSED rather than protected and relocated by the pedophile Protector pope.

Frank LaFerriere has some remarkable strength, conviction, and determination and it is fortunate for the CURRENT victims of pedophile roman catholic priests that he does. The VAST MAJORITY of victims of these animals are destroyed emotionally, psychologically, and some of them physically. They are completely incapable of carrying on a normal life, never mind speaking out against you millions of brainwashed minions who would rather pay the cost of lives destroyed in order to satiate these sadistic perverts.

I appluad you Frank. Keep it up. Many are grateful that you speak for them.

bishopaccountability.org "survivor's accounts"

Frank LaFarriere, is it, you are no victim, you are a posing, using your lie that you were victimized to be hateful and bigoted. You are a hater and a bigot. End of story!!

Frank LaPierre, I am SO sorry for what happened to you.....and I know only too well the damage it inflicts upon a family. And I too have left that farce that I was indoctrinated into, simply because my parent's were raised in a time when they knew no better....because they weren't educated enough to be. BUT, I will tell you this...if anyone, in the CC, had EVER touched one of us, God help them, literally....because my Mother would have been on them, like flies on S#@%T, as would my father have been.
You see, one can have faith...though I admit mine is fading every day, even as a "Spiritualist", but one doesn't have to condone what these rapists did.
And you're right....to blindly follow evil such as this...AND a coward, to boot....without speaking out, makes them as culpable as he is...and I was on a committee for victims of child abuse here in Canada, and we nailed the bastards to the wall....their property was sold, the compensation given to the victims, and we hid NONE of it, because THAT boat had already gone round trip....and we were NOT condoning Pedophiles and their ilk. And now? The CC pretty much lies in tatters where I live, and it looks GOOD on them, because they don't deserve to even speak OF "God" let alone tell people they speak FOR him.
NO "God" would want that....and if folks are delusional enough to think He would? Then I almost feel sorry for them!
BUT this show's that Karma DOES exist....and that one can only run for so long, even if they do end up in posh apartments in the Vatican....it has to eat his ego, that life goes on around him....as he sit's in disgrace, or maybe not so.....maybe he's cunning enough to let someone else take the fall for it.....kinda like Bush did to Obama.....
Whatever they do, I too want NO part of it....and I am truly sorry that you were hurt by those monsters.
And to those calling you a LIAR? Watch "The Boys of St. Vincent!"...and read about Mount Cashel, Newfoundland and Google "Newfoundland RC Church and Sexual Abuse"....and "I" was ON those committees to try and help the Victims.....so you know NOT of what you speak, hater's of VICTIMS! Until your day too will come....and as he said...YOU are every bit as guilty as THEY are...for condoning it, in the name of God, of ALL things.

I will make the same challenge to you Lina that I have made to Bill Donohue, Cardinal Timothy Dolan or others who call me or victims liars. Pay for me to take a polygraph. I pass it, you pay for three full page ads in the Boston Globe, the New York Times and the Manchester Union Leader apologizing to myself and all victims of priest abuse. I would pass it, you willing to take this challenge?

Yes this evil is committed against children in schools. What is the difference between what happens in a school and the Roman Catholic Church? There are not tens of thousands of children who were raped and there are not hundreds of leaders who covered it up. When a teacher is busted, they face criminal charges, they go to prison. When a priest rapes a child, the leaders of the church moves that priest around and covers up for him so he can then rape more children. Also when a priest or a leader is caught, they are rarely prosecuted. The biggest reason? The statue of limitations. Which the Roman Catholic Church fights at every chance they can when a legislature is going to end the statue of limitations against child sex abuse. Don't believe me?

Poor, poor Cardinal Timothy Dolan got his granny panties all in a bunch when New York passed the same sex marriage law and told the people of New York they had betrayed him. Then he spewed from his mouth when he learned New York was going to end the one year statue of limitations against child sex abuse:

Dolan also explained that he wanted to keep the statute of limitations for child sex abuse victims to one-year, because if the church gets sued, "The perpetrators don’t suffer. There’s no burden on them. What suffers are the services and the ministries of the apostolates that we’re doing now. Because where does the money come from? So the bishops of 30 years ago that allegedly may have reassigned abusers, they don’t suffer. They’re dead. So the people that suffer are those who are being served right now by the church. We feel that’s a terribly unjust burden."

Oh his poor, poor terrible unjust burden and suffering eh?

How about you getting forced to suck a priests dick? How about you getting a priests dick shoved up your ass while being forced by the same priest to say the Our Father and Hail Mary? How about having some sweaty, nasty, sick, twisted, perverted degenerate raping you and telling me that all is sunshine and rainbows and happiness.

Judge not? Screw you. You all judge gays and lesbians worthy of hell, two consenting adults who do no wrong except in your damnable eyes, but I am not allowed to say the priest who raped me, the leaders who covered it up, the priests and nuns who abused and raped and destroyed tens of thousands of children are not worthy of hell?

Just who the hell do YOU think YOU are?

Here is my advice for you. Go get raped by a priest, be shamed into keeping your mouth shut. Feel the guilt. Deal with the horrifying nightmares, where you are being gang raped in hell by priests, bishops, popes and the demons of hell, then have the priest who raped you, now a demon, coming over, ripping off your penis and eating it. Deal with the feelings that you are evil and deserved what you got because while the priest was raping you, you begged and cried out to God and Jesus Christ to make him stop and they did not, so you feel you deserved what happened because God and Jesus Christ did not answer your prayers, so you take an overdose of pills, hang yourself, or stick a gun to your head and pull the trigger because you feel so doomed. See how it is to feel your life is worthless, that you are doomed to an eternity in hell because you got raped by a priest and choose to finally speak out against it. Deal with the loser idiots like YOU who call us liars, or gold diggers, or other nasty @!$%#. Or that must have so enjoyed it, loved it, came onto the priest, seducing him so he could stick his dick in my mouth and ass.

Sure, this is something I absolutely love. Stupid jerk.

Frank, I am too a victim of sexual abuse. In my case, it was a family member and the family wanted to sweep it under the carpet just like the church has done for decades, centuries, etc. to people like you. I am so sorry that you were abused and I so agree with you in the regard that these people that are defending the church and the Pope are just re-victimizing the individuals. Trying to point out that...oh, it was only a few cases, or that the Pope is innocent in all this is just ridiculous. I think the Catholic Church is one of the most corrupt organizations in the world today. I believe that their evils are far beyond the scandals of sexual abuse and I don't think we will ever find out what truly has gone on, or what will go on behind those golden walls.

Peg-3423662

Same challenge to you. Pay for a polygraph for me. When I pass it, you pay for three full page ads in the Boston Globe, the New York Times and the Manchester Union Leader apologizing to me.

You sure got a big mouth to accuse me of lying. You want to put your money where your mouth is?

If not, shut your sewer mouth pie hole and go troll somewhere else loser.

I am sorry for what you went through Nota. What you went through is what finally gave me the courage to come out about my own abuse. I met a young woman who was being abused by her father. No one would help her. Everyone defended him and called her a liar. I saw him with my own eyes. I put a stop to it. When he offered as an excuse that it was because he was abused as a kid that gave him the right to rape and sexually assault his own daughter, I exploded on him. I told him about my rape and another rape that happened to me while hitchiking. I told him I would NEVER think of revisiting this upon another.

Because I went to the police about it, this woman found the courage to stand up for herself. Even though she was ostrasized by her family and called a liar, she stood up and went to court. He is now sitting in prison for 20 years. She gave me the courage to fight, to speak out, to take a stand. No idiot, like Jen or Peg or any other fool, will deter me.

I am no longer afraid, of anyone of the Roman Catholic Church, not the priest who raped me, not your Pedophile Pimps, not your Pedophile Priests and not your Parishioners who love, protect and defend them.

Stand strong.

Frank: "Thank You for making your stand!! Tell the truth, and the WHOLE truth.

It is an evil organization!!! "Full of dead men bones."

The Vatican should be burned to the ground.

Frank;

I was going to sign off, but I noticed some people calling you a liar and I am fuming.

Listen PIG and LYIN-ASS!, I don't know who you people think you are, but you have to be two of the biggest jerks on the planet! (I'd like to say something else, but I am sure it wouldn't be posted.) I do not know Frank, but I do know this...there is no way in hell that anyone would claim the lovely tag of sexual abuse victim if it wasn't true. I am sure that he doesn't go around everywhere telling everyone he sees that he was molested/raped by his local priest...nobody wants to broadcast that embarassment or humiliation. He is sharing it here to point out that if you are a true person of faith and a believer in God and Jesus Christ then there is no way you could support this Pope hiding the truth and protecting the "Chester the Molesters of the Catholic Church", nor can you be really happy with how the Catholic Church has handled all the molesters and rapists for all its many years, with no thought of the victims. Their only worry was how this would affect their bottom line. You got to keep the church members coming so that the coffers are full so the leaders of the church can continue to live their posh lives, especially in the golden Vatican City.

Yes, I too, was called a LIAR. I made it all up. Then it changed to...well, I must have wanted it or I seduced him. (Of course, as little kids we don't even know what sex is or what oral sex is or that a penis is used for anything other than going to the bathroom, or the same with your butt. How about this one?....My mom actually got mad at me (or jealous, I guess) because she thought that my sick frickn stepfather wanted to have sex with me more than her and, again, that was my fault. Again...like me, I am sure that you thought that you deserved it in some way because you prayed and your prayers weren't answered. Then these creeps do everything to make us scared to tell anyone. Your mother would never believe a story like this...right?! You also don't want to embarass your parents or jeapordize their standing in the community. (I am talking about your case, Frank. In my situation, it was different than yours, but in many ways we share the same guilt. Also, the thoughts of wanting to die rather than endure it one more time or have one more nightmare about it.) I am sure you are the same way, but I now have grown kids and I still have nightmares about what happened to me. It has really affected my sex life as an adult. Our innocence was taken away. With you, it was taken by someone who is supposed to be a representative of God, of Jesus. There is just no way Jesus could turn the other cheek about this. He might ultimately forgive, but their would have to be some just punishment.

Okay, I have exploded enough. I just feel like I have to apologize for these idiots...they know not what they do.

I meant..."there" would have to be some "just punishment". Excuse my errors.

Peg, you are the exact reason these kids commit suicide. They speak up and are beaten by parents who defend the Church. They feel they have no where to go except the noose, the bullet, or poison.

fishman

Be careful who you cast stones at

I honestly don't understand people like you. I don't think you're a bad person. I don't think you're stupid. If you were my neighbor I would probably like you.

How in the world can you believe this stuff? I imagine you, like many folks, were brainwashed from birth, but why can't you see through it now that you're an adult? Presumably you've read the Bible. Do you really, in your heart of hearts, believe that if a god does exist, it would be so juvenile, evil, and stupid? I suspect you yourself have higher ethics than the god you worship. I know I do.

And I also know it's useless to try to reason with people who have been thoroughly brainwashed. But to answer your warning to me about casting stones, I will tell you that if the Abrahamic god were real, I would not want to go to heaven because I would not want to associate with such an entity. My cat has higher morals.

It's a fairy tale, and one with holes big enough to drive a semi through, just like Hansel and Gretel, the big bad wolf, and all the other fairy tales meant to frighten children and primitives.

The church you so proudly identify with has engaged in unspeakable atrocities throughout its entire history and continues to do so today. How can you justify that?

Robert;

I SO agree with your post. I do not understand PEG, at all. She is not making any sense. I wonder...is she an example of a "good Catholic"? One thing in particular she said to Frank was "you are no victim, you are a posing". Do you think she meant he is a "poser"? Maybe English is her second language? Oh well, you never know what is in people's heads.

I do know the feeling of wanting to tell a parent, but fearing what will happen to you if you do tell and wondering whether the option of suicide is just a better option for everyone involved. Of course, suicide is never the correct choice, but when you feel your prayers are not being heard and that no one cares about you, sometimes horrible thoughts enter your mind. I hung in there and life got better once I was free of my abuser, but I have continued to live with nightmares and some relatives questioned my story for years. Sadly, the truth came out when my stepfather died and we all found out that he had molested his own daughter before he married my mom (she knew this) and then my mother continued to live with him and protect him even though I told her everything that he had done to me and he continued to do it to several young girls in each state that they moved to until they both died. Just like the priests, they get caught and they just up and move somewhere else and start doing it to someone else.

Thanks notasheep, I read a story here several years ago where a girl told her parents a priest was sexually assaulting her. The parents accused her of lying and refused to believe a word, so the abuse didn't stop. She killed herself and the parents found out later she was telling the truth. Now THERE'S some Catholic guilt. By the way, raised Catholic and went to St Charles for 8 years. My mom told me many years later when her and my dad were deciding whether to send me to Catholic or public school, they took into account the mental situations a child would be put into going to a Catholic vs the better education it would provide. We had some nice nuns(usually young ones) but some of them were incredibly mean and viscious.....to really little kids...six or seven years old. Grabbing your jaws until your teeth seperated then shaking your head.

The Gaytican, the Pedotican, the Rapetican, the Molestican or however you can name it should be abolished and those priests should be in prison where Bubba can lift their sullied robes and panties and take care of them from the behind. What a sham of an organization.

Frank

I hope you are still writing that book. It is so disheartening to see the posts STILL refusing to believe the brutality of the pedophile priests.

Don't give up. When more victims see that you can speak out and stand up to the brainwashed and those refusing to believe what happened to you, they will begin to speak out as well.

It will take a graoundswell, but we've got to start somewhere. The rcc has to be stripped of its power to condone the rape and brutalizing of children. We have to remember the current victims and the victims who still need help to regain their lives.

bishopaccountability.org "survivor's accounts"

Btw peg is a troll. Don't feed him/her.

hey day in heaven:

that stuff happens in the Tribulation, we are NOT in the Tribulation period.

The Believers(saved, blood washed, born again, saints, child of God, the redeemed) will NOT be going throught the Tribulation period.

Obviously, jerry...you believe in rapture theory... in the book of daniel... it says ... do not teach my children that they can fly from danger... and the book of revelation certainly does not begin with the living being called up. This is just one more example of the sheep following whoever will promise an "easy out" in return for 10% of your income and undying loyalty.

Jerry: Read your bible...The tribulation began when the Apostles recieved the Holy Spirit and were speaking in tongues. Proof of this is found in Revelation 1:9 "I, John, both your brother and companion in the tribulation and kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was on the island that is called Patmos for the word of God and for the testimony of Jesus Christ." Read and understand your bible. Yes, there is a final 7 years however the tribulation has been going on for several thousand years. Trust me on this one. It is not contained in one 7 year period...It is impossible.

i am sorry hun half of the catholic religions families have not been. You shouldn't make such bold statements with percentages without fact.

Bad bob is a big boob. He does not know squat about it.

In the 60's and 70's in the Boston area it was RAMPANT. We all knew about it, many of us suffered as victims, NONE of us would DARE say a word or we would have been punished by our parents. Then the priests and nuns would have a heyday beating us and humiliating us.

The two other areas where it was rampant were Louisianna and California. Those three areas alone were INFESTED with pedophile priests like cockroaches. It has since been discovered that the rcc protected them, relocated them, fed them fresh victims.

Satisfying the perversions of these priests is more important to the rcc and the pope than the health and safety of children.

bishopaccountability.org "survivor's accounts" This is what you continue to support if you are a member of the rcc.

You are a liar bigot. Just keep stirring up the hate. Statistics would not bear out your lying statement, bigot!!

I was an alter boy quite a fews years back, my total time serving in that capacity was 7 years. In those seven years we had 3 different priests oversee the alter boys. Since then, 2 of those 3 priests have been indicted for molestation. Luckly, I was not one of them, but I know of one of the boys I served with was not as luckly as me.

I don't believe every priest is guilty of this crime, but I do believe we will never know the true scope of how many were abused. A lot of priests got away with it without percecution.

And all those church leaders that hid those crimes are just as repulsive as the perpetrators.

There you go again, PEG...and some of your other cohorts; Ivory Blue and Jatty, calling other people out about their "facts" and stating they are liars and bigots because you all are apparently such experts on everything and everyone.

Bad Bob made a statement saying that "more than half of the Catholic families he knows has a family member that was sexually abused by a priest". Do you know Bad Bob and the Catholic families he knows? I would bet you a sizable amount of money that you don't know him, so how could you know how many abuse victims he knows or doesn't know? Do you have your own little crystal ball? If he knows one family with a sexual abuse victim of a Catholic priest, isn't that bad enough?

You people act like the victims are coming out just for the sole purpose of bringing down the Catholic Church or trying to hurt the Pope...or that they are just money-grubbing individuals. Abuse victims that have had the courage to come forward are most likely doing so because they don't want it to happen to other children. (That is a fact.) Any compensation that the abuse victims end up getting won't be anywhere near what they deserve to get to reimburse for what these priests (or nuns) have taken from them. Many have huge medical bills for continued therapy and also many are unable to work or function in society because of the damage that was done to them mentally as a result of the abuse.

I would spend less time attacking people who have the courage to speak out against abuse and retake a Basic English class.

You are a liar bigot. Just keep stirring up the hate. Statistics would not bear out your lying statement, bigot!!

Why call someone a liar? You don't know their situation and frankly this is just disrespectful.

peg is a troll. don't respond

Excellent points, Frank. Hopefully, some cafeteria catholics will read, thoughtfully consider, and leave the rcc.

bishopaccountability.org "survivor's accounts"

Wow you are really on a roll, using your fake victimization as cover to spew your hatred and bigotry to whole group of people rather than keeping it to the individual. Great job hater.

Hey Frank, your pomous arrogance is the epitomy in evil by the way. The hate just drips through your pours, and is putrifying as you write. Sickening.

Poor, poor delusional Peg. Such a sad little troll. Such a sad little rejected bit of humanity. So sad to see Peg sucking at the teats of Pedophiles.

I have long learned, that those who normally stand up and defend pedophiles are usually one themselves.

Is that the case with you Peg 3423662? Do you hang around altar boys or Girl Scouts and offer them your treats? Do you sit there in your car across the street from a playground diddling yourself while watching the children play?

IF as you say I am such a liar, why not take a challenge Peg and put your money where your mouth is? I will make the same challenge I made to Bill Donohue, Dolan and all the rest who call us victims liars.

Pay for a polygraph test. WHEN I PASS IT you pay for three full page ads, the Boston Globe, the New York Times and the Manchester Union Leader apologizing to me for calling me a liar. I do not pass it I will go to Rome and personally get down on my knees and suck the dick of the Pope in apology.

I damn well will win this challenge.

So troll, you dare to put your money where your outhouse sewer pie hole is?

Peg...........real thinking people might call that justice not hatred

Hey Frank, Wow, so creative. Such original thought!! Such strong, and disciplined use of the language. You are wizard with the written word, imposter. You sure do love being a bigot, and a hater though, I do give you that.

What did you do, as a parishioner, to make sure the guilty were prosecuted for raping your children? What did you do, as a parishioner to make sure those who covered it up paid for their crimes?

As a Catholic I have spoken out about the problems the church faces with pedophiles. I have been fortunate that both the Church and School I grew up in, we didn't have any of those problems.

Your question about whether we have forgiven them...forgiving a pedophile is probably the most difficult thing for me to do...frankly I find it easier to forgive a murder. However, we are called to forgive and as such I have to forgive so yes while it is not easy it is something I pray for.

What I don't get is the general hatred for the Catholic Church because of the actions of a few. It's no different from those who hate all Muslims because of a few bad ones. There are pedophiles every where, including the schools and I don't hate all teachers.

Speaking for myself, I cannot allow myself to get to the point where my rationality flies out the window and hate take over.

Peg;

Since you continue to pick on Frank and, as a young man, he did not have someone to protect him from his abusive priest, I have elected myself to stick up for him, in my own meager fashion, here.

Like I said previously, I don't quite understand much of your posts. Just curious, is English your second language? I especially do not understand your determination that Frank is a bigot? I am intrigued by the phrase, "you are a liar bigot". What about phrasing it like?... "you are a lying bigot" or "you are a liar, bigot!" You also really enjoy using commas when not necessary. In many cases, it is not necessary to use a comma before the word "and", unless you are making a series of statements. May I please suggest a couple of other corrections? You previously stated, "Hey Frank, your pomous arrogance is the epitomy in evil by the way". Just a suggestion, but I believe it should read, "Hey Frank, your pompous arrogance is the epitome of evil by the way". Oh, and by the way, his hatred couldn't drip through his pours. His hatred could drip through his pores. I also believe that Frank is a wizard with the written word, but how do you know he is an imposter? Are you friends with the real Frank LaFerriere? Do you know CD11? Why did you not call him out as a liar when he claimed he knew another altar boy who had been molested? Are you willing to make a blanket statement claiming that there was never any real abuse and that it was all fabricated by a bunch of bigots and liars? Oh, and how do you know this...well, God spoke to you, right? You claim that Frank loves being a bigot and a hater. I just simply do not know how you can say this. If you had read any of his post where he opened up about how violated he was by his priest, someone he trusted with his young life...well, you should have had a gut reaction and at least a small fraction of sympathy for what he endured. That is, if you are human. On the contrary, it seems to me lady that you are just plain MEAN.

Frank; I am sorry, I hope that you don't mind that I am fighting this battle with you. It is really none of my business, but then again sticking up for people that have been abused is everyone's business!!! There is nothing worse than being called a liar when you are clearly telling the truth. If the individuals who are claiming such bullcrap had to go through even a fraction of what we both endured they would be whimpering in a puddle of their own snotty tears. Again, all the best to you...and me!

Your new friend, D:)

Peg is a troll. Don't feed him/her.

Peg's only goal is to inflame. He/she does not actually have an opinion. Trolls simply choose the most inflammatory wording to an emotionally charged comment that they can in order to get reaction. Don't respond.

Against my better judgment, I'll provide you with evidence from a source you're obliged to consider. But I think this will be fruitless. You clearly don't value evidence, you're a person of faith! And so I ask, like Sam Harris does, what evidence can one provide a person who doesn't value evidence in the first place?

VATICAN LETTER Aug-17-2012 (970 words) Backgrounder. With photo and
graphics. xxxi

Statistically speaking: Vatican numbers
hint at fading faith practice

By Cindy Wooden
Catholic
News Service

VATICAN CITY (CNS) -- The percentage of Catholics
practicing their faith is declining almost everywhere around the globe. Almost
all bishops report it, but it's difficult to prove statistically.

Again, I dispute the overall numbers as well considering the bean counters never strike baptisms from the stats. This is a gargantuan red flag.

They are converting because of the organize power of the church to use its billions to lure poor people. The Catholic church has never been about Christ. It is about power, an arm of the Roman Empire, created to parallel its army for the task of subjugation.

Wow, Linus..the more I read down your posts, the more I realize that you likely ARE one of these pedophilic priests. What a grade-A DBAG you are.

You seem to keep saying repeatedly how 'other' organizations molest MORE children than the Catholic Church has, like somehow that's OK with you. No compassion at all for the victims.

linasfriend

150 enter the church this Easter

Those are cafeteria catholics who don't show up the rest of the year. They are afraid they will burn in hell if they don't show up at Easter and Christmas.

bishopaccountability.org "survivor's accounts"

We had a huge reduction in Catholic churches were I live.. There were 124 parishes that were consolidated down to 66, due to the poor attendance. A lot of the Christians coming into the Catholic church are primarily made up of new immigrants coming to this country, not those who were born in America.

But he isn't walking away from them. They are building him a new palace. He WANTS to wallow with them behind their protective walls. So....blame him for the continued rape of poor innocent children. Their blood is on his hands.

Actually the retiring pope is German not Italian so the alfredo and spaghetti comments don't apply.

FSM applies to everything!!

I think it is immoral to command that victims must love their rapists. The underlying threat is doubly vicious for those who have been wronged. Not only are they victimized in the first place, they are then given a not so subtle threat of eternal damnation if they reject the LORD's teaching! Let that fact detonate in your brain.

This is not the teaching of a civilized religion. It is the teaching of a primitive morality that belongs in the past, not in any society that values empathy and critical thinking.

@Tommymommys . "Christ founded the Christian church" !!!! In your inhibited dreams ...maybe !

everybody ban athiest he has no right to post about morals he is a person of no morals save what he considers good for himself. he speaks without knowledge like reading from cue cards. calling someone to love thier enemies is not an emotional love but a love that God has for us. yes athiest God loves even you.

yes athiest God loves even you.

Prove there's a god!

I challenge you Tommymommy to walk one mile in my shoes. I challenge you to deal with the church and their supposed bull line of "Oh we are now going to do all we can to help the victims get justice and heal." Almost three years since I came out that I have been waiting justice and it looks like it will be at least another three years or more.

I challenge you to deal with being called a liar, a gold digger or any of the other disgusting names we victims have been called, or told we did not get raped, we seduced these priests. Or try being one of the boys who were castrated on the orders of a Bishop so the boys would not seduce the priests who raped them again. Or be a deaf boy, being raped by a priest, or a young girl being impregnated by a priest then being shunned because you are now pregnant.

Be a young, troubled kid, who ran away from an abusive foster home, who was put into a Roman Catholic Church for one night of "safe keeping" only to have your body raped and your mind, heart, soul destroyed. Imagine being that kid, when while he was being raped, forced to say the Our Father and Hail Mary, crying out in their mind, begging and pleading God and Jesus Christ to make the priest stop, but those prayers were not answered. Then imagine being that kid, who felt they deserved what happened to them because they were evil and God and Jesus answers prayers only of good kids. Imagine what that does to your mind, your heart, your soul.

Imagine you feel you are doomed, to an eternity in hell if you speak out against what the priest did to you. Imagine your having horrifying nightmares. Imagine taking a bottle of pills to kill yourself to end the pain and suffering you had to endure. Imagine your becomming so drunk to try to stop the nightmares, taking so many drugs to try to stop the pain that you can no longer function. Imagine hating yourself so much you do everything you can to try to kill yourself.

Then tell me that I should forgive and forget as long as the priest who raped me, the priests who raped others, the leaders who covered it up, enjoy their freedom and lives of praise, happiness, peace and love, of being fed three great meals a day and living in the lap of luxury. Laughing at all of the victims as we keep trying and hoping for justice, but seeing the system is rigged against us, do not see a light at the end of the tunnel.

Try walking in our shoes for a mile, or two....then see if you can come back and praise these scum and call them holy.

This is from Romans 2 in the KJV and it's talking about the 10 commandments. This is how we know right from wrong even if you don't believe in God. God doesn't force Himself on anybody. We are born with a free will to choose to believe or not to believe. I think Islam is actually one of the fastest growing religions because in some muslim countries if you don't convert you die. True Christianity doesn't force people or threaten to kill people if they don't convert.

¹⁴ For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

¹⁵ Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

Also, the Bible doesn't say anything about loving a rapist or murderer. It does say to forgive though because God knows that people who harbor unforgiveness in their hearts against people who have wronged them are the ones who suffer. The Bible calls it being bitter and there is evidence that bitterness in one's heart can create health problems. There are always going to be people no matter what religion that make everybody who practices look bad. We hear bad things about the police and about this group or that group. I know a police department that finds families at Christmas time who are poor and they ask for volunteers to buy gifts for the children. Those officers spend their own money and go way over and above what they have to. There are missions in towns where homeless people can get a free meal and some clothes and a place to sleep for free that are run by religious organizations. We need to be careful not to stereotype. Not all religious people are evil, not all priests or ministers are evil, not all police are bad. I think the majority of these are good but when all you hear about are the bad ones it causes us to think all are evil and bad.

everybody ban athiest he has no right to post about morals

What I detest about christians summed up right there. Along with some clown saying G*D will have the last laugh. Jerry,BTW. And about a few dozen more declarations no little fragile-ego filled human has the right to make. I love reading these! It reinforces my resolve to follow Christ's teachings, but to stay the double H hockey sticks away from christians.

This is from Romans 2 in the KJV and it's talking about the 10 commandments. This is how we know right from wrong even if you don't believe in God.

Right and wrong is not just derived from religious sources, nor is religion or a deity required to know right from wrong.

We are born with a free will to choose to believe or not to believe.

If there was a god, there would be no such thing as free will.

there is evidence that bitterness in one's heart can create health problems.

It's called psychological stressors.

keep looking moron ( the truth) but a MORON like you will never find it.

Catholics who are unwilling to be part of the solution may be the result of the union of these to effects: Dunning Kruger effect + Stockholm Syndrome

If that's the case, our best hope, as moral people striving for a peaceful world, may have to be the enactment of laws to prevent children from being indoctrinated by faith. Faith should be an adult choice.

Too bad you have so much hate in you my friend. One day that will hopefully change.

Reality44060---

I don't believe Atheist is hatefull at all....
Seems to be a thoughtfull well educated well adjusted being to me...
Perhaps disgusted, but not hatefull.
Also I don`t believe just hoping changes things. Action does.

The ones you should be cheering today? Are all those who managed to survived the horrors we went through at the hands of your priests,

Exactly.

bishopaccountability.org "survivor's accounts"

Reality

Clearly you have never been a victim of rape and torture.

clearly you have

I know what the current victims are suffering. Girls are even less likely to come forward than boys are because they are raised as second class members of the rcc.

If you are a member of the rcc you are financing rape and abuse of children.

bishopaccountability.org "survivor's accounts"

Hey Frank, quite the bigoted/hate driven professional anti-catholic activist you are. What's your next project after you take down the Catholics? You really getting off with your 15 minutes of fame on some nondescript site. You're really Loving the attention that your hate is whipping up. How pathetic!! Your use of language shows just how stupid you really are!!

And Peg you have been showing us all what an excellent troll you are. Keep up the good work.

That's all you got, Frank?

PEG--

Frank----you da man!!!

he doesn't seek fame...but if it wasn't for the friking statute of
limitations he would have a felony lawsuit to file against the CC.

ITS THE MEN....MEN are the rapists. I was raped by a MAN! I hate MEN. All of them. Every single last one becuase you men are ALL rapists. Hate you ALL. Doesn't matter what religion you are, you rape. Just like Frank hates all priests and the Catholic Church because he was raped by a priest, I hate all MEN because I was raped by a man. So I guess every single profession that the rapists are work in should be aboloished. All men should have their penis's removed. Every single city in America has thousands of untested rape kits ultimately leaving the rapists to continue to commit crimes. Our cities in America not doing ANYTHING to protect the women and children from these rapists is worse becuase it runs into the millions of women and children (not just the Catholics) who were raped and millions of men going FREE because the cities just don't care about women. Bet I could get half of the worlds population on my side (women).....because it is the sick disgusting MEN that rape. Get it straight. Its NOT a profession that rapes its the MEN who rape!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ALL MEN are rapists. period.

It never goes away, does it, Frank. The world should be crying for what you and the others have suffered. Not cheering this man and his successor.

honeybee, it is a profession that puts victims in your reach. Hosts of childrens TV shows. The Brit from "Top of the Pops". They are in a trusted position of power and nobody thinks they could EVER do that. In Kansas City, Ed Mascera hosted "The Uncle Ed Show", an after school show with puppets in a treehouse and cartoons in the early and mid seventies. Later, in the early eighties it was uncovered he would troll the local venues where local punk/new wave bands would play. The VFW hall was set up where the bar was downstairs so you had to be 21 to go down for a drink. The upstairs didn't serve alcohol but the bands played upstairs. And the 14/15 year old girls wanting to look cool were there, upstairs. Ed died in a Flordia prison several years ago when he was convicted of molesting underage girls. I don't know if he did boys.

The long history

Citing the long tradition of tortures and torments should include men and women as well, not just boys. Doesn't seem fair to the women who had their breasts torn off, or the men who suffered hot pokers up their rectums, not to include them. Funny how most of these activities were based on sexual torture and humiliation. Kinda gives you a clue right there, don't it.

I'll pray; that he burns in hell.

Praying will have the same effect as tossing pennies into a well.