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L'Osservatore Romano
Now that they have bid farewell to Pope Benedict XVI, the cardinals begin the work of choosing his replacement. It begins in earnest Monday with official meetings and off-the-record dinners where alliances are forged and names are considered, experts say.
Let the papal politicking begin. The College of Cardinals will meet Monday for the first time since the pope's resignation.
Officially, the princes of the church will gather every day to deal with important ecclesiastical business -- setting a start date for the conclave, receiving reports on the state of church affairs around the world.
But Vaticanologists say the most significant discussions will unfold at private apartments, in restaurant back rooms, around the coffee urn, as cardinals meet in small groups to suss out who among them will be the front-runners to become the next pope when they are locked up for voting some time before March 20.
"All the real business takes place at night over anisette and grappa," said Christopher Bellitto, associate professor of history at Kean University.
Gossip will be traded and names will be Googled. Coalitions will start to form, and lists of first and second choices will start to take form.
L'Osservatore Romano
Cardinal Angelo Sodano, shown here with Emeritus Pope Benedict XVI, will preside over the general congregations that start Monday and give papal candidates a forum to shine.
"This is the chance, especially for the cardinals out of Rome who don't travel a lot, to get to know the other cardinals better," said the Rev. Thomas Reese, Vatican analyst for the National Catholic Reporter.
Once or twice a day, the cardinals will converge on the Vatican for what are called general congregations, formal meetings that could touch on a wide range of worldly and spiritual issues -- from reforming the Roman bureaucracy to the church's "new evangelization" ethos.
A cardinal can boost or doom his chances during these confabs, which are presided over by the non-voting dean of the college, Cardinal Angelo Sodano, experts say.
Make a dismissive comment about the sexual abuse crisis and a potential candidate could lose the support of the Americans or Irish. One who stumbles on the subject of Islam could be written off by the African cardinals. But a lower-profile cardinal who impresses the group with his eloquence or energy could suddenly have dark-horse status.
After the congregations, the caucusing continues in informal, intimate settings.
"You're not going to do this in McDonald's," Reese said. "This is where the Roman cardinals have the home-court advantage because they have apartments, they probably have a cook, they know a restaurant with a private room where they can have three or four people for dinner."
James Weiss, a theology professor at Boston College, said it's an intricate dance, and this time there will be an overlay of intrigue because of the Vatican document leak scandal that exposed infighting and back-stabbing in the church hierarchy.
An internal report that may address accusations of financial skulduggery, sexual activity and even blackmail is being kept secret until the new pope is chosen.
"What's going to complicate this is they don't know who they can trust any more," Weiss said. "They know something bad was happening at the highest levels of the Vatican, but they don't know who. The level of distrust has not been this great since 1730."
Still, if recent history is any indication, by the time the 115 cardinal-electors actually go into the conclave -- not to emerge until the puff of white smoke is seen -- there will be a handful of front-runners.
It's possible none of those names are the one that will be announced outside St. Peter's. Two early leaders can cancel each other out, forcing their supporters to look for a compromise candidate who can get the two-thirds vote needed to score a pair of red shoes, Weiss said.
He said that unconfirmed reports out of the 1978 conclave -- all the ballots are technically secret, but there's always the possibility of post-election leaks -- had nearly 50 old-guard cardinals coalescing around a conservative.
When they realized their man would never reach the threshold, everyone started moving toward a more electable moderate, and Poland's Karol Wojtyła, championed by an Austrian cardinal, suddenly jumped from 18 to 30-plus votes. He became the new focus of the conclave and, eventually, Pope John Paul II.
While there is alliance-forging during the actual conclave, the opportunities are more limited, experts said.
There are two ballots every morning and night, and the process is tedious and time-consuming, with each cardinal taking an oath before casting a vote and the totals being tallied three times. It all happens in the Sistine Chapel, where silence is mandatory. There is no Internet access, so checking Google to see if a certain cardinal really said a certain something a few years back is impossible.
Jerry Lampen / Reuters file
There is a lot of politicking to be done before white smoke rises from the chimney above the Sistine Chapel in the Vatican, as shown here in 2005.
Vatican watchers say the quicker the conclave happens, the less chance outsider cardinals will have time to research and talk up their colleagues. That likely benefits the cardinals of the Roman Curia who have the most to lose from major upheaval.
Modern conclaves have not lasted more than a few days -- not surprising, since the whole point of them is to make a quick decision.
They were created by Pope Gregory X after a papal election that dragged on for nearly three years, from 1268 to 1271, infuriating the people of the medieval town of Viterbo, where pontiffs lived at the time.
"The people of Viterbo had finally had it and locked the cardinals in a big hall until they elected someone. They still wouldn't elect, so the good people of Viterbo ripped the roof off the hall. They still wouldn't elect, so then they started to give them only bread and water," Bellitto said.
The townspeople finally threatened to start throwing garbage down on the cardinals if they didn't settle their differences, and "lo and behold, they elected Pope Gregory," he said.
Gregory decided that all future elections would be done by conclave with the cardinals cut off from the world until they picked a new leader.
For this election, a repeat of Viterbo isn't in the cards, but some speculate it could be the longest conclave of the last 100 years.
"While there are many possible candidates, there is no front-runner or front-runners, as there was in 2005," said NBC News Vatican expert George Weigel. "There's also a sense that this is a critical moment in the church's history, the cardinals aren't all that familiar with each other, and thus there's a concern to take the time required to get the decision right."
He guessed that if it isn't over in two days, it could take as long as two weeks, but Weiss thinks the cardinals are under pressure to get it done in three days or less for public relations reasons.
"One thing they're all concerned about is maintaining face," he said. "And once it goes beyond three days, the world knows the divisions are running pretty deep."
Ettore Ferrari / EPA
The pope delivers his final audience in St. Peter's Square as he prepares to stand down.
Related:
Cheers and tears as Benedict flies to temporary home in hilltop town
Inside Castel Gandolfo, Benedict's spectacular temporary retirement home
Leave a Comment:
And who the hell cares how he's chosen, how does it make any difference? And why is this in the news???
There are still many people that follow the catholic church, as archaic as it is. I am sure that the "new pope" will be an old man with ideas from the past century, and NOTHING will change.
They can't bring that church to the modern day, and reform it. The church that protect pedophiles, still promotes people "to have as many children as God wants you to have" in a word with 7 billion people, and counting. Never mind that most of those people that believe in this church are third word countries that can't afford plumbing.
Yeah! PFFT! for a church that is nothing but a dinosaur that will become extinct!
Instead of elevating woman to the priesthood..the Catholic Church rather spents BILLIONS to defend and reward pedohiles. But they can afford it as they are the largest landowners organiztion in the world! There will come a time when the Catholic Church will stop debasing and marginalizing nuns but I am sure hell will freeze over first before that happens as those hypocritical, closeted, homo priests hates REAL women!
That secret report on church activities will not see the light of day, that is how the church operates, in the shadows, to them they are only accountable to God.
As a Catholic, I'm not supposed to speak for God. Nonetheless, I'd lay odds that few members of the hierarchy have done much in recent years to improve their divine standing.
The Catholics know their own leaders, better than outside faiths would. Get on the cell phone and vote, like on one of those TV programs such as Dancing with the Stars, or American Idol. There's the potential for millions of votes. What are the individual Cardinal's stands on liberalizing birth control, or prosecuting pedophilia, or accepting gay marriage, or providing nuns with equal retirement packages, etc? It doesn't have to be a contest of candidate A singing " Ave Maria " vs. candidate B singing " Oh Holy Night ". I would bet that the Cardinals have so isolated themselves, and insulated themselves, they don't understand the issues of the modern world and would be somewhat amenable to outside opinions on how they should proceed, from their own.
It's kind of like buying clothing for your grandchildren for a holiday present. Though you might want to buy the latest fashion, you're still restricted by the child's clothing size, and you must admit to yourself the kid has grown a bit since the last time you saw them.
Dumyou.....go back under your rock with Flush Lardball.
IRespond,
"There are still many people that follow the catholic church"
I think that's an understatement! The Catholic Church has more than a billion followers, making it the largest and oldest Christian church in the world. It's true that it changes only very slowly, but a lot of people like it that way. They like to believe they belong to something that is unchanging and eternal in a world where everything else is changing at such a rapid pace.
Damyou have you had the internet for 5 minutes now???
The "doom and gloom" predictions have been the hallmark of the GOP/Rightwing/Teabag/Religious/Gun-nuts for about half a century now.
Which planet have you been living on??
the oldest world wide organization in the world, in every country on earth, 1900 years of tradition; do they and have they made some big mistakes, YES, however they also have built a world wide medical care facility's, world wide education system, opened up trade with China and Japan in the 14th century (when most people did not even know that those country's even existed), have built a world wide system of Charity's for the poor; not a bad record.
and started the Inquisition while molesting thousands of altar boys.
This is not democracy, you are free to leave anytime you deviants and social adovcates. You call for meodernizing it but less than 10% of american catholics car about that. It should more about cleansing the church from within. If you can live by the church laws then you should either leave or we will be happy to have you excommunicated, to roast in hades. if you go against the Bishops then you should consider going to confession and asking God for forgivenss or leave the church.
Over 1 Billion Catholics. That's who cares.
I wonder if a 2/3 majority is just as impossible to achieve in the Vatican as it is in Washington. If so, we've likely retired the last pope.
After participating in the world's longest game of "telephone", I can hardly wait to hear what the Vatican has to say next. It must be even more true than it was yesterday.
Hey, I care ... that's why .....
Caliostro,
The Pope is the leader of the world's largest organization. That is why this is news.
You did not know?
Actually I believe that the vote must be unanimous.
The Church's role is not to be modern, not to be relevant,its role is to proclaim the truth of Christ. That truth is usually in direct contrast with our perverse, selfish , "modern" culture.
Benedict has done a wonderful job in ridding the church of those who preyed upon boys and young teenagers by screening out homosexuals from the priesthood. (No not all homosexuals are pedophiles but face it, It wasn't little girls that were being molested.)
All this buzz about the secret report is just speculation...because it is SECRET....no one except 3 Cardinals and Benedict know what it says . So stop repeating it as news and using it as a means of trumping up charges against the Church .
And the vote does not need to be unanimous.... a 2/3 majority is needed.
IMHO - It is a 2/3 majority, not a unanimous vote. Also the individual must accept election as Pope.
joemike404,
"Also the individual must accept election as Pope."
And from what I heard on the PBS Newshour the other day, not that many Cardinals really want the job of being Pope. It's like being the CEO of a corporation with over a billion employees only without the pay. It's a tremendous responsibility. That's why Pope Benedict XVI resigned. It was just to much for him to handle at his age.
Sounds like politics as usual.
Never liked this pope from the beginning, never trusted him and now not surprised that he is resigning instead of serving his life out as it should be. He better have something seriously wrong with him to have been allowed to do this. It seemed that he was more interested in having the title than doing the work and now it looks like he wants to sit back and reap the rewards without having the responsibilities. Would like to know the real reason he is resigning, Alzheimer or dementia should be the only reasons he would be allowed to do this. There is so much corruption in the Vatican and the church that this is just another example of the ridiculous show they like to put on
To IRESPOND
I think it was Rousseau that said a religion without vices is a dead religion. The meat of any religion is the moral code that it espouses. Like it or not those codes held firm for pretty much a millenium, now since the late 19th century folks have wanted to get rid of those ideas that are supposed to be timeless. The moral code isn't supposed to bend to the mob, but the other way around. Since we have hammered away at the "old" moral code, our civilization has taken a drastic turn for the worse. And morality does matter. The greed of the 1%, the fact that a full 40% of kids in the US are illegitimate, over the top nihilism, and the acceptance of violence and cheating all have filled the void of the now dead moral code of the West. Not much hope of keeping a civilization around when most of the future generations will be dirt poor, without any moreal code or standards to get them by. THe Catholic Church has many faults as it is men that run it, but the moral code is needed now more than ever.
Eenie, meenie, minie....Pope!!!
So much for being "god's chosen one" .... roflmao ... simple human power, ambition and greed - just like anywhere else. Two Billion Catholics support this farce ..... astonishing naivety.
I thought religious intolerance in America was history. On this news site, it looks like bigotry is alive and well. There are pedophiles in all groups of people- religious or not. Atheists, Jews, hamburger flippers and surgeons. The fact that MSNBC strives to paint the Catholics in a bad light just shows an agenda.
ROFLMAO .... take a peek at the last 236 years in the US. All that has happened, is it spawned hundreds of "Independent" Churches, just like the situation prior to the early 17th Century in Europe ..... what on earth Leeds you to believe the core Nature of Faiths have changed ROFLMAO
Getting a little prickly today? All they did was report facts. If you honestly think that The Pope is chosen by some blinding flash of Light sent from On High, you are very Naïve or cant read.
Well said Casual, but MSNBC is more than happy to paint all religious organizations in a bad light, not just the Catholic church. Religious intolerance is alive and well in America. Too bad these same fools have forgotten why so many came to this country in the first place........but then, they pretty much either don't know how our country was founded or find it contemptible. As far as I'm concerned, if they don't like the truth, they can go elsewhere and leave the rest of us in peace. (Starting with the President.)
Additionally, these posters are so hateful, they keep posting off topic. I didn't know the history of how conclave came to be until today. I'm sure this conclave won't take years.....
Oh you're so right willowbrook, religious intolerance is alive and well in America, especially from far right wingers like you. People like you can't tolerate anyone who doesn't "believe" as you do, like you have exclusive rights to the "truth".
And, you're childish "Starting with the President" comment shows your true colors...an intolerant.
Religious intolerance is only alive and well because the religious keep trying to jam their beliefs down our throats. If you spent as much time following the words of your God as you do telling us that whatever we believe or don't believe is wrong then the world would be a far better place for everyone.
It is 1.3 billion Catholics and the Holy Spirit takes care of the selection.
One billion two billion how many are there. Well at one time there wer 1.16 billion but that was before the scandals and now there are said to be less than 750 million world wide. This last pope did nothing to stop the ebb and flow out of his chuch as many are still ticked that they swept the alter boy thing under the rug. Good luck to the next guy who gets the job cause he has to do some very unpopular things in order to right the ship.
and the Holy Spirit takes care of the selection.
Yeah right
Actually Giantego, the Catholic Church is growing quite nicely, thanks, even here in the United States. Be aware however, that the Church is more concerned with preserving the teachings of Christ than with growth in membership. Its not a club, it is a faith. One to which, it is not necessarily easy to adhere. The Church would accept, reluctantly, the loss of massive numbers of adherents rather than succumb to popular opinion in shaping the teachings of the Church.
Before you go all whackadoodle, most of the faithful believe that the Church must vigorously root out anyone who abuses children (or others) and that Church leaders should be held accountable to the civil authority for protecting abusers and trying to cover-up abuse. I know of no one among my fellow Catholics who would belief aggressive tactics to correct the problem of child abuse to be "unpopular". We think those priests accused of abuse should have a fair investigation and fair trial. If found guilty they should be punished. We hate what those people have done but we do not hate the Church.
Finally, we do not believe that the Holy Spirit selects the next Pope. We believe that men do. We pray however that they are open to the influence of the Holy Spirit and in being so, make a selection in the best interests of the preservation and furtherance of the faith and in the best interest of all the faithful.
Well said joe mike. I am disgusted with anyone who abuses children ,especially catholic priests as I was raised catholic and held such respect for them. My faith has not been tested though as I still very much believe in the catholic church. They will be judged by God as we all will. I believe they may be judged more hashly as they have taken vows to represent Christ here on earth. I deplore what they have done but the teachings of the catholic church are still the same as when Jesus made ST. Peter the first pope.
Ask someone who isn't Jewish or Christian how much religious tolerance there is in America. Ask a Muslim how much religious tolerance there is (and they're one of the Abrahamic religions - they have the same "base" as Christianity and Judaism). Ask someone who follows one of the Earth-based religions how much religious tolerance there is in America. Ask someone who is an atheist (which is a belief system) how much tolerance there is in America.
Now tell me how someone who follows a majority religion, whose religion gets ILLEGAL preference, is being discriminated against.
@ MikeO, you appear to be talking about yourself there. It is the religious who are being discriminated against. Obamacare for starters, and who supports Obamacare? Obama. It is obvious who are the non-religious, as they are the first to denigrate any and all who believe, whether it is Christian, Jewish, or Muslim. It doesn't matter, all are painted with the same hateful brush. Frankly, the religious are tired of being discriminated against. Hence why they are speaking out. BTW, I'm not a "far right winger," I'm a fiscal Concervative.
The Roman Catholic Church will still be alive and well a thousand years after all you Catholic-bashers have died and turned to dust. Think about that.
You may very well be right about that JP, and it sickens me to think about it.
When you support your disgusting pedophile cult you are a shielder of child rapists yourself. Think about that.
Oh really, J. P. Do tell.
The Catholic Church isn't exactly "alive and well" in 2013 -- we live in fast-moving times, and no institution lasts forever.
The winds of change are blowing, mostly driven by a culture of rape and pedophilia. Can't wait to see what happens in the next 20 years.
Really JP..your denomination WAS once the largest in the world...and where is it now? The Greeks religion used to dominate most of the Mediteranean area..where are they now? The Acropolis and other temples are nothing more than tourist sites now! Zoroastrianism used to dominate the Middle East before Islam conquered that area...NEVER SAY NEVER buddy! BTW your brand of christianity BORROWED those concepts such as heaven & hell, the garden fo eden, angels..etc...from Zoroastrianism that is still practice today in Iran and has less than 200K adherents worldwide! I wonder how long before a church that took 400 years to apologized for locking up a brilliant man like Galileo for telling the Catholic church that they were wrong...that the sun was the at the center of the universe and not earth!
Yes JP it will be still going, just like many other Religions et al who also claim to be the "Ultimate Truth" ..... So what? .... Whats so special about the Catholic version of naïve Doctrine compared to other Christian Faiths, let alone all the different Variants of "Truth" down the Ages, majority way before the Catholic Faith was born (an event 600 years after Christ - a bit late to the party ...) It still remains a testament to the utter naivety of many on this Planet in the search for the Ultimate comfort blanket - whether its now or in a Thousand Years time. That people wish to go down that route is absolutely fine, its their time they are wasting - as it is normal for sane people to point out the Stupidity of the obvious Doctrinal Absurdity. Each to their own :)
All of us would do well to heed Reinhold Neibuhr's words of wisdom about "bad religion," which he defined as any religion that reserved ultimate sanction for itself.
I hope and pray YOU ARE CORRECT JP, especially in for North America with all its 'cancerous cells'...distorting THE TRUTH.
We are NOT all equal...that is a spin, a communist spin of a truth, we are all equal before the law. (surprising how you can distort even truth...)
The statement, 'stop violence against women' is a great tool to understand how truths can lie, how dark-truths can deceive us, and that we need God and The Truth.
Stop violence against women, is a half-truth on many levels. It ignores abuses. Some violence is abuse, some is self-defense. Victims and abusers are both male, and female. Also children can be abusers, as can governments.
So don't crooked thinking spin your truths into lies...even the Catholic Church became victim to a hidden internal corrupt agenda, hidden to many...as 'cult-feminists' have used half-truths, and lies to distort THE TRUTH.
Cult-feminists ? Well they are anti-family, anti-male, anti-woman. They promote women being equal to men, with no respect for life, as only women can give birth to new life. ( so much so that some couples are killing their healthy unborn child because they are female...)
Oh and by the way, you might be interested to learn that the current definition of 'half-truths' is incomplete. If you expand it, you will find a dimension to truths, human truths that lie, and that confirms the original sin from the Garden of Eden....surprised ?
Well the media were advised of this back in 1992, and they have kept it their little secret of the war against the family.
St. Michael pray for us !
There will still be people stupid enough to get on their knees, put their lord in their mouth, molest children, and not understand how contraception is a need for society?
Then yes, I suppose there will still be the filth that is the @!$%#ing piece of @!$%# catholic church
Would that be by the Jewish Faith (where the concept of St Michael originated), or by the Islamic Faith view of him(that preceded the Catholic Faith), or by Catholics themselves? Perhaps we should take the Eastern Orthodox version, or the maniacal Jehovah's Witness take on him. Maybe the Protestant views of St Michael, then again Seventh Day Adventists and those in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, have their take on the "Ultimate Truth" of St Michael ...... sensing a pattern here ??
Or maybe we should keep Faith where it belongs, a personal matter - where those of "The Faith" (whichever one of several Hundred Faiths is actually true, if any) can continue their take on how to play "hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil".
Faith is a cool thing at a personal level -all for it - promoting Naivety to hundreds of millions is not fine, its a travesty.
J.P., I agree. People aren't going to give up the church and wonderful traditions just because a few news vine posters are naive religious bigots. There are pedophiles in ALL walks of life- religious or not. Jews, atheists, protestants- all have pedophiles among them. Why MSNBC encourages Catholic bashing reminds me of when the Irish Catholics immigrated to this country and faced discrimination because of their religion and heritage. MSNBC, right here today, openly encourages religious intolerance and hatred. Period.
They reported Facts, don't like the Facts, that's cool, but it will not change them. You also assume too much that all who disagree with you are intolerant of Religion. I see some hatred, surprise, but I also see many pointing out the Facts - many of the latter are unpalatable to some Catholics ....
Tough .... :)
Zydor- why doesn't MSNBC point out the fact that there's pedophiles in the Jewish faith? Why doesn't MSNBC point out the fact that there's pedophiles in the Protestant faith? Why don't you point out the fact that there's pedophiles in all walks of life? Guess it makes you feel better to bash Catholics and act like a hate-filled bigot. No surprise.
Because the Article is about The Catholic Faith ..... what are they supposed to do - bitch and moan about every organisation on the Planet? Of course there are Paedophiles in every walk of life .... so whats new? Does the latter mean all should shut up about Paedophiles in the Catholic Church .... are you really that Naive? Look above and see who mentions Paedophilia the most .... need to get your brain in gear before knee jerk moaning
Guess it makes you feel better to bash those who oppose the Catholic Doctrine without any knowledge whatsoever about the background to the individual, or any refuting of statements made with actual Facts ...... Faith is a good thing, Blind Stupidity is plain Dumb.
You are correct, their will always be stupid men to support the worlds two oldest professions.
The Church
And Prostitution
And at that time none of the dust will give a hoot. Will the Catholic Chuch still own more than one trillion dollars in real estate in America and not pay a dime in taxes?
@Zydor Haven't you figure out what "MSNBC" stands for yet?
"Mostly Stupid, Nothing But Comedy."
They post these articles, to "bait" everyone, into vomiting all their hatred, then they report
"results" as if they were authority?
You seem to have taken the bait, and thankfully, there ARE people posting, who have "inside
knowledge" of the truth. You are not one of those people, sorry. You took the bait, and
spewed ignorance, and you are permanently on record, of knowing nothing about the Catholic
Church. The prize goes to someone who posted what the Church has taught, and continues to
teach. The followers are
those who can surrender themselves to a higher mind, a Higher Power. They are not looking
for "Feel Good Religions"that bend and sway with every breeze. Did you ever hear the
expression "Evil Triumphs, when Good men do Nothing?" Well, evil is not triumphing, in the
Catholic Church,
because "good men ARE doing something about it". You just haven't heart THAT part of the
story yet. Stay tuned, but don't look for that part of the story on MSNBC, instead tune into
EWTN and get the FACTS.
Good Grief .... that all you got, just innuendo .... rofl :)
The quote you struggled for is:
By the way they are not "MSNBC" any more - they are "NBC" - the two organisations are now prising themselves apart, will be a long process.
As to being so called "anti-Catholic" .... way way wrong. Below is a comment I made a day or so ago to reinforce that:
Far from your silly, childish, badly researched, and appallingly expressed knee-jerk assumptions; I do actually want to see the Catholic Church survive as is demonstrated by my earlier post quoted above. However, it needs to reform itself and stop knee-jerking un-researched or partisan garbage like many of its followers. it may then become relevant again.
I may not believe in the Faith it espouses, I never will, but I do recognise the good it does in the world. Regrettably its infested with lunatics who knee-jerk garbage and don't use their limited brains to understand what is going on around them. When the latter is sorted out, it will become relevant again, but not before.
It's about time! Why did we have to go an entire day without an article glorifying the pedo-er-catholic cul-er-church?
Why can't we go an entire day without Catholic bashing and religious bigotry? There's pedophiles in the Jewish faith and protestant pedophiles as well. Most Catholic clergy aren't pedophiles- they do more to help the poor and needy in the world every second than you have in your entire miserable, bigoted, hate-filled life.
I despise all religions equally Casual. God belief is divisive. It pits groups of people against each other, fuels wars, and allows people to commit horrible atrocities against their fellow man with a clear conscience. This whole idea that death is not the end is not only childish, wishful thinking, it's dangerous. It is this idea, after all, which is pretty much the sole motivation of suicide bombers.
Exactly Leroy! A large % of people are actually weak minded individuals and have this inner sense that they have to believe in something ... People believe in the bible because most were indoctrinated into the belief by their families and thats what they are told to believe..... period! We should merge and turn all churchs into Missions. If you really want to help people just call them missions ... give your money to the mission and they will help the sick and poor. This idolizing a cross, a made up stories ("the bible") and fictional characters is funny. People go to Church today so they can feel better about themselves ... really? You can't do that on your own? Are you that weak minded you need to spend an hour of your day havinng someone telling you how to behave ? I know plenty of people that call themselves Christians yet are the farthest thing from acting like they have been told to act. Uggg ... so stupid, the whole thing. It will never end though, unfortunately. This Wolrd would probably be a better place though! We'd have 3,000 people still alive if it never existed though.
Why can't we go an entire day without Catholic bashing and religious bigotry? There's pedophiles in the Jewish faith and protestant pedophiles as well
Cause the catholics got caught paid some off and swept it under the rug by shifting where those priests served
Yes, Casual, there are pedophiles in every walk of life, every nationality, race, and yes, religion.
However, it is the Catholic religion that took pedophilia to new dimensions by knowingly covering up the actions of pedophile priests. Now you'd think that in the interest of putting a halt to the sexual depravity while keeping their reputation out of the muck they would ship the offending priests off to some remote location. Very remote and apart from the flock-- adults and children alike-- where they could live out their lives in prayer and penance with a little psychiatric help thrown in.
But no! They removed the priests from their assigned parishes and shipped them off to other parishes to abuse others. And when they abused children again and the heat became too hot for them in the new parish, they were moved to another parish... and on, and on, and on.
So see, for every pedophile priest who molested boys, there were others... Priests, monsignors, bishops, cardinals, miscellaneous church officials, and even your own pope in some cases who knew of the terrible sin the pedophile priest had committed against God and against those poor children. They knew, and they repeatedly chose not to turn the pedophile over to the authorities, chose not to remove him from society and place him in a secluded monastery. No, they chose instead, to move him to a new parish, new and fertile feeding ground for the pedophile priest's depraved appetite. This wasn't done in one or two instances. This was the way the problem of pedophile priests was handled across the United States and across the world. This was policy and procedure of the Catholic church as a whole-- not the sick, rogue actions of a single parish, or a single diocese, or a single country.
So many in the church's hierarchy are guilty of pedophilia... those who themselves sexually assaulted all those young boys, and those who gave them the power, authority, and free rein to do it over and over and over again. The numbers are staggering.
And you cite the charitable works of the church as if, somehow, that rights all wrongs. Poor fool! Good deeds can no more get you into heaven as they can keep you out of hell.
It happens in every religion Giantego.....
The Pope chosen will be a "crisis manager"
Or a liquidation trustee.
In other words, the church is political organization where back room deals can determine the outcome...notihng new here...
Sounds like our government, Hollywood, most major corporations, etc. Why bash the Catholic church? It's so 1930's Germany. Move on.
Who's bashing? the Catholic Church is just another political action group that has its own internal politics. It just happened to try to cover up a pattern of pedophillia that its priests practiced and got caught.
Oh, no! All the politicking and jockeying by the cardinals, all the coffee urn and restaurant back room discussions, will have no effect. God Almighty will choose the next pope. He (She?, It?) already knows who the next pope will be. In fact He knows the identities of the next 100, 1000 popes. It's called omniscience. And if you knew what He knows about you, you'd be terribly embarrassed.
They have been a political influence here in America for years and some cannot see it. They want their laws to be our laws and there is a danger there.
If you want to believe what they preach the choosing of the pope is a devine thing and in the end god chooses him. Course you have to believe in the holy guy to swallow that one
Casual, CarribeanLady was not bashing the Catholic church by her statement. Why are you so prickly that you see bashing at every opportunity?
Late dinners and grappa...These guys shouldn't be up after 10 and their doctors ordered them to stop drinking a long time ago.
The Rainbow of Sin and Truth.
LIGHT, has no colors, yet is all colors.
We need a Pope with the compassion of Christ, and with the reality of THE TRUTH, not someone or something to be marketed to the masses 'like cigarettes'.
I hope and pray YOU ARE CORRECT JP, especially in for North America with all its 'cancerous cells'...distorting THE TRUTH.
We are NOT all equal...that is a spin, a communist spin of a truth, we are all equal before the law. (surprising how you can distort even truth...)
The statement, 'stop violence against women' is a great tool to understand how truths can lie, how dark-truths can deceive us, and that we need God and The Truth.
Stop violence against women, is a half-truth on many levels. It ignores abuses. Some violence is abuse, some is self-defense. Victims and abusers are both male, and female. Also children can be abusers, as can governments.
So don't crooked thinking spin your truths into lies...even the Catholic Church became victim to a hidden internal corrupt agenda, hidden to many...as 'cult-feminists' have used half-truths, and lies to distort THE TRUTH.
Cult-feminists ? Well they are anti-family, anti-male, anti-woman. They promote women being equal to men, with no respect for life, as only women can give birth to new life. ( so much so that some couples are killing their healthy unborn child because they are female...)
Oh and by the way, you might be interested to learn that the current definition of 'half-truths' is incomplete. If you expand it, you will find a dimension to truths, human truths that lie, and that confirms the original sin from the Garden of Eden....surprised ?
Well the media were advised of this back in 1992, and they have kept it their little secret of the war against the family.
St. Michael pray for us !
Yes, the truth of the talking snakes, got it.
There really should be a saint to pray to for that, you know.
"Oh saint of the talking snakes, protect us from apples and the @!$%#ing bitches who would tempt us with them"
Then instead of crossing yourself you could draw a circle 4 times each way and then belch at the sacred snake candle, grab both ears and hiss "#@$@#$@AFSDFSADFR#@$$!!!"
Yes, I think all will pray for 5 days in Vatican city and see this ancient rite of the saint of the talking snakes returned to its rightful place in the catholic mass.
It is the truth as God commanded it!
I'm beginning to think that the pedo problem is most prevalent in the highest ranking vatican officials. They'll sacrifice a few priests to prosecution to make it look good, but guys like Bernard Law, and Ratzinger will be protected at all cost. I'm betting that the computers in Vatican City are full of kiddie porn and quite possibly children are smuggled in and held captive there. Vatican City should be invaded by a coalition of concerned nations and turned upside down. Enough of this BS!
You started off by saying "I'm beginning to think"... I knew right there is was going to be nonsense from there on out. Most of the Catholic church is NOT pedophiles. The church has does more good in this world than most any other organization in history. And continues to help the poor and needy, many if most who are NOT Catholic, because the "me first" America of today doesn't bother with the forgotten poor in our country. "leroy", instead of being a bigot and bashing Catholics, why don't you go out and help someone?
Instead of refusing to face reality, why don't you go out and discuss internally with the Faithfull how to eliminate Paedophilia inside The Church, a topic you seem obsessed about.
Again look above at who is getting prickly over Paedophilia the most ...... the article as about electing a Pope, a Human Process without Devine intervention, despite what many like to believe.
Instead of being a Bigot and Bashing everyone who disagrees with your Faith, why don't you go out and help someone .... at least you would be going some good. Knee jerk defence of the indefensible is more than Dumb. Paedophilia is out there in all walks of life, get over it - including the Catholic Church, where in particular given their Doctrine and stance, it definitely should not be.
You cant defend or deflect the indefensible - don't try, its Dumb.
I do volunteer work almost every weekend, Casual, what do you do to help people? Oh, and the CC has CREATED more poverty than it has alleviated with their ignorant stance against contraception.
Most...
Nice
The @!$%#ing catholic church is proof that god has bowel movements.
For a news site that's supposed to have a liberal slant, MSNBC certainly is striving to perfect the art of religious intolerance, bigotry, and hatred for Catholics. There are pedophiles among jews, atheists, protestants, lawyers and garbage men. Why so much hatred and intolerance towards Catholics? We'r enot new to bigotry. It happened in the early 1900's as Irish Catholic immigrants came to the new world and faced open discrimination.
I'm just shocked MSNBC has such an agenda of bashing Catholics. Why not pick on someone else for a change? Like the millionare Hollywood stars who get remarried once every other year and are self-proclaimed gods? Notice you can't even COMMENT on the "entertainment" articles on MSNBC. Hmmmmm.....
I agree. Catholic bashing will never go out of style here. Which is interesting, because the ones that are bashing seem to know about what Catholics believe. They really don't know, and problably are afraid to find out. They need our prayers instead of criticisms. Hate needs to be transformed by love, at least our Lord suffered in the same way in His time, Catholics must be joyful to recieve the same treatment. Pray for the Cardinals and that the Holy Spirit will send down His fire of Love and Knowledge to his Church.
False pride always takes a big fall. There is an easy way for the Catholic Church (any organisation) to sort out the critical battering's they and others get .... a statement from the Pope that in unequivocal terms, no hedging, that The Catholic Church is opposed to Paedophilia and all it entails, and is determined to eradicate it inside the Catholic Church.
But again you seem obsessed with Paedophilia .... you raise it more than others :)
The only conclusion that can be drawn is you know its wrong, but will not acknowledge its presence inside The Church .... that's just Dumb.
The point you seem to miss, here, Casual, is that the RC Church hierarchy conspired for many years to protect and shield the molesters - that is what most of society objects to, and why this is considered so important and newsworthy. The RCC has a hierarchy, unlike the other denominations you mention, and they retain all the power in the church for themselves. With such awesome power comes awesome responsibility, something which said hierarchy has failed to assume. They deserve the bashing they are getting, and will, until they own up to what happened, how they hid and fostered it, and relinquish some of their power and open up to the world. It is only they and close-minded people like you who think that everything must remain the same forever. Jesus didn't come to support the status quo, and I'll bet he would have a few choice words for the institutional RCC today, just as he did for the established religion of his own time and culture. But you just continue to keep your eyes closed, like the Pope tells you to...
I really can't comment intelligently about your faith, that is deeply personal. But from your actions and support of a totally corrupt organization, I can certainly give a justified opinion about your sanity.
Get help. It's not healthy to make yourself a victim.
All religion is a business and the only sacred thing in any of them is the dollar period. bashing catholics? Well if this was a baptist seed they would get the same. You same people who pst that bashing crap would love it say if this was a Muslim seed and Muslims were being bashed. See its about the collection plate and this religion claims to be the only ture religion and everyone who does not join in is doomed to fiery hell for all eternity. I passed when I got to that part of the book and laugh at it no matter how many losers take up this crap. Most of the misery in the world is caused by one thing. Organized religion and it should be banned. All of it. Believe what you may but organizing becomes being sheeps and following some one elses ideas all over what is called unproven facts. I am waiting for some religion to show me the God they profess to be following. That is not going to happen.
Tanya, many of us do know. Firsthand.
I am a former roman catholic... baptized, had my first holy communion and confirmation. Even taught 3rd grade CCD classes. I attended catholic elementary school and catholic high school. I graduated from a catholic university. Get it? I was catholic. Big time.
I left the church years ago because I could no longer turn a blind eye to the man-made rules and interpretations that were focused on keeping its followers subservient... blind followers with open wallets. The jesuits in my college religion courses started me down the road of wanting to know more. Needing to know more. I read. I researched. I learned. And I left.
The pedophilia in the catholic church is disgusting, but not a surprise. As the scandals grew in number, I watched catholics leave the church.
Suddenly, with the extraordinary expenses of the pedophile scandal costing millions, money became tighter. The local bishop told catholics that educating catholic children was not a mission of the church. As parochial schools closed-- dozens!-- I watched more catholic leave the church.
But the pedophilia money drain continued. As churches were closed-- sold to other religions or converted into business enterprises or torn down-- I watched more catholics leave the church.
Catholics are leaving. Their eyes opened as your priests ripped out their hearts. This is not the middle ages. People are no longer uneducated and fearful of eclipses. We can read. We can read the bible and we can read the religious tomes of other religions more ancient. And we can see that the church has fallen... rotten from within.
Do not pray for me. I do not want your prayers. If you can blindly support the filth that has allowed the sin of sexual molestation to permeate your church, then your prayers are tainted and worthless.
I would like to know how many of these "red heads" will go to heaven. The catholic church is founded on lies and the belief that confession absolves everything. So they go on with trying to move the powers of the world and they for sure would like to see the church back. Thanks to God this church has been crushed quite a bit and even with the lies, the pedophiles, the fraud they are unable to cover it up anymore in the age modern communication, people can see that this is no godly institution.
Oh yes, and you're such an "expert" on the Catholic religion. NOT. Just more hatred and bigotry.
Actually I studied it for some time, so yes I think i am expert enough to form an opinion. Nothing to do with hate but with facts and a more than 500 year based on the Reformation. Perhaps read Martin Luther before making dumb statements.
"Joachim" - you bash my religion by making dumb hate-filled statements, I bash you. Period. Nothing in you opening remark was in the least bit scholarly or enlightening. Just more hate.
Casual, there is no one more hateful and bigoted than the catholic church.
Doret, let's talk about the jewish faith who practice being bigots. God's chosen people.
@Doret : when was the last time you went to New-York (Brooklyn) where there is one a largest hassidic community (jews, if you don't know the term), who is one of the most bigotted, strict congregation. Catholics compare to them are the liberals of the church.
I half agree. The catholic church will survive but according to Malachy's prophecy it's whore house located there in rome will be destroyed.
More religious hatred and bigotry. MSNBC- what's up?
Because The Catholic Church has issues to resolve on this, that it refuses to face up to in any genuine manner - to quote your silly comment - Whats Up?
Others are fighting around the world to get a grip of the Paedophilia issue, apart from The Catholic Church who just wants to bury the problem as if it doesn't exist.
Again you are obsessed by this ... its crazy, go out and help eradicate the problem, playing Ostrich is pointless.
How to waste newsprint. We the reader are not interested in how the Pope is elected . The fact is
that a Pope should be a leader in righteousness . The choices then are which are this leader in
righteousness , and this can not be a King or an Administrator . It is amazing that King David was not perfect , and made the mistake of taking on challenges that were not worldly . You all , probable do not know the most Righteous King of Ancient Israel . To give you a hint - He was known to get rid of the Idols and restore the Law . This portion of the Jewish Bible is read on one of the Festivals . The idea here is that the most righteous have a reason for this zeal . The righteous are chosen by events and the righteous solving of spiritual problems . This would be a better discussion then procedures for an election.
First they have to have these meeting dressed up like a bunch of clowns and pray to idols and dead people such as Mary who has been in Heaven for thousands of years and who doesn't have a thing to do with this. Then they will have to twiddle their thumbs and those stupid beads that also don't mean a thing. Really its just a bunch of crap. And they have to hold their hands a certain way cause that makes them more holy you know. Really its just BS! Then they will finally decide on some 80 year old man who can barely walk and dress him up in that clown suit that he wears and put that three foot tall stupid looking hat on him and his little red clown shoes and announce him as the new Pope. Big hairy deal. Then, the Catholic Church will have a new pope. Another big hairy deal. Who cares? I sure don't
My thoughts exactly! This is for all the week minded sheep out there you know! They all need something to believe in. They don't understand that bible's are nothing more than Fictional Fables!
Join the church and find out instead of say such stupid crap........ And I really doubt that any Catholic will care about your prejudice statements.
My impression of the Vatican - control freaks, greedy, out of touch with the world, covering up to protect their own just like in the Inquisition.
Take their wealth and give it to the victims of their ......... infinite list of crimes over hundreds of years.
Why not take the wealth of the Hollywood self-proclaimed gods and give it to the poor? Why not take the wealth of major corporations who pollute the world and enslave millions with low wage jobs in China and give it to the poor? Why not take the wealth of the porn industry and give it to the poor? These groups have committed far more crimes in just the past 100 years than the church ever has.
But no, it's just easy, brainless fun to bash Catholics. We're used to it, though, And we're not going anywhere.
You are a just a sheep amongst a herd CasualUSTaxpayer. Why do you need a pope anyways ? Does it make you feel better about yourself? Do you need someone else to tell you how to behave, how to live your life, what to do etc ??? Come on ... live your own life. Religion is not going to "save" anyone ... it's made up crap! Your bible is a Fictional book of Fabels.
I'm pretty sure Hollywood never took a vow of 'Poverty, chastity and obedience".
ROFLMAO .... now you are getting desperate. The actually History of the Pope and The Catholic Church in Europe, especially in the period 1000AD to the 18th Century has been one of control and imposition on the Ruling Families et al in Europe, and throughout the World. Its hardly new .... just ignored as an inconvenient truth by too many.
That's just fact to put that dumb statement of yours into context. Don't go down the Holier than Thou route with The Catholic Church. Its History (like many other organisations) is littered with callous Politics, Bigotry, and murderous ambition.
The challenge today is for all to acknowledge that things happened in the past that should not have, its the way of Life of the Human Race. Sensible people acknowledge past errors, and work to not have them repeated.
The Stupid Idiotic ones, try to cover them up and pretend they never happened because its an inconvenient truth.
Re-join the real world - Faith is a good thing - blind unthinking stupidity is just plain Dumb.
Man! If Hollywood took a vow of 'Poverty, chastity and obedience' did they ever waver? And how!
It is not chastity. It is celibacy. Big difference. They can't marry, but nothing prevents them from having sexual relationship. Hopefully to people their own age and not children.
Nuns make a vow of chastity, because they are married to God
Oh yes, let's make sure the Vatican doesn't destroy all the information in the Archives that the rest of the world should be privy to. Just shut that whole thing down!!
Did you put on your tinfoil hat today? Don't worry, us Catholics aren't going anywhere. We'll be around long after you're forgotten.
People believe in the bible because most were indoctrinated into the belief by their families and thats what they are told to believe..... period! Weak minded people! Time to shut down the need for a pope. Clowns!
Casual, has it occurred to you that every time you swallow the host, you also @!$%# it later?
You catholic's really should have a patron saint to pray to about that. St Proculous, the protector of 'holy @!$%#'.
Let us pray for Doret . . .
@effort900: I'll do ya one better. All these so called "Catholics" are a bunch of brain dead, missled, and ill informed individuals. It's o.k. to believe in God, Christ or whatevery your spirtuallity is, but when you support a church system that defends or hides it's abuse against children, then you might as well support a pedophile. Yet, you wouldn't support a pedophile on the street, so why lie to yourselves AND God at the same time? A real catholic goes to church every week, but you substitute church cry babies only go when you feel like impressing God. The best example is on Christmas eve, the churches are packed with nothing but hypocrites trying to look like the good people they are in their communities, only to live in sin the moment they leave the church. God lives in you, and nowhere in the bible (of any kind) did he designate the catholic church as his voice or representative.
@effort900 : it is not only the catholics that believe in the Bible. Protestants (of all colours, meaning, baptists, presbyterians, lutherians, calvinists, anglicans, etc. etc....), Jews all believe in the Bible.
I see doret was doing some morning trolling..........
140 or so Drunk horny Cardinals!!! Grappa!!! I thought God gave them a vision? not a hand-job.
you need to watch what you say, it's the stuff demons are made of. Shame on you.
Tanya, Did your jesus teach you to judge others that way or was it the priest that ass-@!$%#ed you?
Speaking of ass @!$%#ing, someone better be hiding all the little boys within an hour of that @!$%#hole vatican city. The senior child molesters are gathering and that can only mean one thing.
Sorry Tanya883701, that's why God gave everybody the freedom of choice. You may not like what your neighbor has to say, but your neighbor doesn't have to agree with you either.
Here's an opinion: Buffalo...I think you're a whore. An ugly one to boot.
First of all it's a poorly written, poorly researched article. The new pope doesn't have to be a cardinal from the church.
This organization is much like the other organizations/corporations in the US. In it for the profit of the top few. Mostly run by old white men with a few minorities tossed in and finally hiding all it can from the sunshine of outsiders.
That also sounds a lot like our federal, state and local governments here!
be well;peace...dan
Man NBC you just love covering this crap. Having a Pope in this day and age is the most riduclous, silliest thing I have ever seen. Why on earth do Catholics need some guy they believe is Holyier than a bum on the streets of Michigan ? I mean seriously!!! The weak minded always need something to believe in I guess. The whole thing is just plain stupid.
More weak-minded hate and bigotry.
I don't hate nor am I a bigot - stop posting that just becuase you disagree. IMO I think its stupid to have a pope. If you have your little pope I don't care if he's white, black, mexican or a transexual. It's still stupid PERIOD! Stop being a sheep CasualUSTaxpayer!
@effort900
Why do you need a President and a Congress, to represent YOU? Why do you need laws, to keep you from stealing, or speeding through your neighbors front yard? Why not get rid of Presidents, and all the expense it costs you, to pay salaries and retirement and Secret Service? Same difference, and when the President of the United States, is caught with a woman, not his wife, fiddling around, just look at what YOU elected, and what about the Senator who was diddling while his wife was dying of Cancer?
We have a lot bigger moral problem in this Country, than the Catholic Church....So bashing the Church must make you feel better about yourself, that you are not protesting the removal of Prayer at sporting events, or the removal of Prayer in schools? Must make you feel a lot better, that you are not controlling your Senator, or Representative, when they can all leave DC, without working out an acceptable budget or work hard, to encourage more JOBS, instead of focusing on non-priorities, such as healthcare and immigration? Hmmmmmm, bash the Catholic Church, because as long as you can keep bashing a religious organization, it makes you feel much better than to face your own inadequacies, about jacking up the people you voted for, to do THEIR jobs.
If every Cardinal who participated in moving Pervert priests from parish to parish
were not allowed to vote for a new pope.
no one would be voting.
And you're an expert on the church, how? I say persecute the pedophile priests. I say persecutre pedophile Jews, atheists and protestants too. I say enough Catholic bashing.
Which came first,the bashing or the actions that caused the bashing??
Moreover when an article comes up about Jewish or atheist serial pedophiles and the centuries old system of hiding them I will be the FIRST to bash.
You KNOW there are serial Jewish and atheist pedophiles as well, but we'll never see an article about them, now will we. Just fun to be an anti-Catholic bigot.
Jewish and atheist paedophiles ..... pages and pages on them ..... Google away just as a starter, but be warned reality will bite you back.
Whats new?
Its a problem going back down The Ages in all walks of Life, the only ones who seem to get prickly about it and try to ignore it is The Catholic Establishment .... and a hell of a lot of Naïve Catholics.
The experts on the catholic church are the @!$%#s who dont want anyone saying something bad about their church, even if it involves raping children.
As for catholic bashing, no one deserves it more. If you dont like it, you dont have to @!$%#ing read it, do you
casual, you are obsessed with peddies it seems. Yes there are peddies in every walk of life, but none of them have the backing of an organization as powerful as the catlicks paying millions or billions to cover it up. Your precious ratzinger has been aware of peddie priests for decades and has worked to sweep it under the rug. If he were somehow not aware of it, then he is a moron, so which is he, complicit or stupid?
Also, you sound like it is ok to have catlick peddies because they exist elsewhere. Every time you put money in the collection plate, you are helping cover up for pedophile priests/cardinals. The catlick church epitomizes what is wrong with belief in any imaginary friend in the sky. Superstition/fantasy based belief systems are going the way of the powdered wig. Logic and reason are coming, so the fairy tales must step aside.
Papal Conclave agenda:
1) Vote for new Pope---check
2) Deny gay rights---check
3) Deny evolution and contraception---check
4) Hide more pedophiles---check
5) Keep masses ignorant and tithing---check
6) Break for lunch at 12:15---check
Grappa?....... Grappa? What about Gramma......she'll be pissed if she doesn't get included.
Grappa even the very expensive ones
Taste even worse than Gramma's piss.
The Cardinal Sinners imbibe a little and chant, Grappa, Grappa just as they are about to grope gramma.
I'm sure you can't even imagine the taste of Gramma's piss but the Cardinal Sinners savor it even more than the Grappa, Grappa.
There won't be a minority pope that's for sure
What an idiotic comment. There are more races represented in the Catholic church than in any other religion in the world!
Oh Dear .... the stats game.
There are 5 Billion who are not ..... you might want to take a peak at where Islam is established before playing a silly stats game, they outnumber the Catholic Faith by a multiple.
Its all irrelevant anyway, false pride takes a big fall.
@Rob99............... but the majority of the cult's victims are minorities !
Hey CasualUSTaxpayer, you have replied to many posts about the hatred and bigotry many Americans have towards the Catholic Church.
Myself included.
My question to you is what exactly have YOU done to help abuse victims or ensure this almost church wide behavior doesn't continue??
"If you're not part of the solution then you're part of the problem"
Exactly Billyrights, Those who still support the CC are the ones with the power to do something about the pedophile problem. Stage a "no contribution Sunday." That'll get the Vatican's attention! Waddya say Casual, why don't you talk to your priest, organize your fellow church members to demand action? Never mind other organizations, don't you want to clean up your own church? It's guys like you who still support the church who should be the MOST outraged.
Hey, I've said numerous times before- prosecute the guilty priests by all means. I don't want them around my kids or anyone else's.
My only problem is that MSNBC is fanning the flames of religious hatred and intolerance by the way they constantly slant the articles to encourage negative feedback. Catholics are used to discrimination, though, we're a tough group. Been there, done that many times before. And we're not going anywhere, so get used to it.
You follow MSNBC's lead just like the sheeple you claim Catholics to be. Look at it this way- say MSNBC had posted an article that said: "There are pedophiles in all walks of life, especially non-religious people who claim to be good."
How would that make you feel, those of you who are non-religious?
CasualUSTaxpayer
My question stands, WHAT HAVE YOU DONE??
Talk is cheap and so are your arguments.
Must be so easy to be a hate-filled bigot, William. Don't worry, us Catholics are used to it. We're tough.
People would be negative towards those "walks of life" CasualUSTaxpayer. No one wants this type of behavior in any walks of life. I am sure this exists in all religions but more so within the Catholic church for what ever reason ... the point of the article however, is the method they you choose your "Pope". I still ask the question: Why on Earth do you need a Pope? What is the point ... is extremely outdated and looks foolish with all the pomp and circumstance! It's a theatrical play. It's pointless and it's just to keep the sheep believing is all. People will survive without one.
So you have done nothing about it and have no intention of ever trying to do anything about it. If you donate to the CC without demanding action, you are a supporter of child rape, period.
Billy Boy and Your Ilk: Let me ask what society has done? You all simply want to destroy the Church because you can't countenance religion. If we stop contributing, and I have to the Bishops and above, the charity done by the local parishes and the schools and hospitals stops in its tracks. Do you want to support these causes financially? I founded and support an orphanage in Uganda which feeds and clothes, and provides medical care for, 76 kids every day. You want to take over the funding? My guess is the answer is a resounding "No." Liberals only want to do good with other people's money. Moreover, if criminal laws were broken, where are the damn prosecutors which we elected?
No, on this thread you said it once before a few minutes ago, the rest of the hours on the thread you tried to ignore it.
Now that's settled, perhaps you might address the thrust of the Article, which is not Paedophilia, not your conscience on that topic.
Jatty, you founded and support an orphanage in Uganda. You are to be commended for your acts of charity and love towards children in need. Truly.
However, if the catholic church were to suddenly fold, would your orphanage fold as well? Would you stop supporting it? Would those working with the children walk out?
Would the fine nuns in this country, for example-- nuns who have been chastised by the vatican for concerning themselves more with helping the poor, the sick, the hungry, and the homeless rather than concentrating on contraception and abortion-- would these nuns suddenly cease their charitable works?
Would catholic hospitals close their doors, or would they be purchased and given new names by new owners? Would the catholic doctors and nurses walk out the front doors and cease to practice medicine?
You seem to imply that, without the catholic church, the catholics of the world would somehow disappear... fall by the wayside... somehow be unable to continue their works of charity without the direction of the catholic church. How sad for you. The early church didn't need a papacy to spread the gospel and do the work of God. Christ himself showed what impact what one man could make. Over the centuries the catholic church has become a twisted version of christianity, addicted to pomp and circumstance, wealth and power. So very very unlike the son of God they claim to fashion themselves after.
They better get it right this time and elect a leader with clean hands and somebody that's ready to clean out the perverts. The future of the church depends on it.
Out of the 117 Cardinals one of which will be the new pope, how many do you think didn't knowingly keep quiet about the problem or participated in moving pervert priests from parish to parish. NOT ONE OF THEM
Have another shot of Grappa
The leadership of which you speak currently doesn't exist within the Catholic Church.