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Peter Andrews / Reuters, file
Nobel Peace Prize laureate Lech Walesa has provoked outrage among liberal Poles by suggesting homosexuals in parliament should sit behind a wall. Walesa, the deeply religious former president of post-Communist Poland, was speaking during an interview on a March 2, 2013 broadcast by news channel TVN 24 in which he was asked about homosexual rights. Picture taken December 13, 2011.
WARSAW — Nobel Peace Prize laureate Lech Walesa has provoked outrage in Poland by suggesting homosexuals in parliament should sit behind a wall.
Walesa, the deeply religious former president of post-Communist Poland, was speaking during an interview on Saturday broadcast by news channel TVN 24 in which he was asked about homosexual rights.
Asked where homosexuals should sit in the parliamentary chamber, he said: "No minority should climb all over the majority. Homosexuals should even sit behind a wall, and not somewhere at the front.
"They must know they are a minority and adapt themselves to smaller things."
Ryszard Nowak, a former conservative member of parliament, reported Walesa to the prosecutor's office late on Saturday, accusing him of promoting hatred of sexual minorities.
"The report was filed on Saturday, when the office is closed," prosecutors' office spokeswoman Barbara Sworobowicz told Reuters. "We will examine it, starting on Monday, if it meets the legal definition of a crime."
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An electrician by trade, Lech Walesa formed the Soviet bloc's first independent trade union and won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1983. As president of Poland, he oversaw the country's post-communist transformation.
Robert Biedron, Poland's first openly gay deputy, appealed to Walesa to discuss homosexual rights with him.
"Walesa was a hero. I dream of meeting Walesa and talking to him about it," Biedron said in remarks broadcast separately by TVN 24.
"I think Walesa doesn't realize the kind of society we are now. Walesa went astray somewhere."
"Lech Walesa up until now was known for tearing down walls, not building them," said Janusz Palikot, leader of the anti-clerical
pro-gay rights Palikot Movement, to which Biedron also belongs.
"Walesa's words contradict democracy because that form of government is based on protecting minorities."
Walesa, who became a world-famous dissident when he campaigned for human rights and freedom in Poland's communist era, expressed his views weeks after parliament defeated draft laws that would have given limited legal rights to homosexual couples.
Poland has been struggling with issues such as gay rights, abortion, legalization of soft drugs and the role of the church in public life
as younger Poles seeking a more secular society clash with a deeply religious older generation.
Copyright 2013 Thomson Reuters. Click for restrictions.
Leave a Comment:
Walesa, you might as well give in, they will harass you, dinegrate, call you bigots, and march all over the country till they get what they want. I don't know a thing about your Constitution, but here in America they have used or twisted at least half a dozen amendments to our Constitution to get their way. Our President has jumped into the fray with his support and come June our Supreme Court will almost surely give them everything they are asking for by saying something like "there's nothing specific in the Constitution but it was implied". Happens a lot here.
oh BS....this old geezer needs to step aside....thank god his kind is a dying breed!!!
As usual regarding the SCOTUS and our Constitution you have no idea what you are talking about!!!
Yes homosexual marriage will be the law of the land here and I for one can't wait to see heads explode over it....you don't like it then get out and move to Poland.
Imnotlost, yes, you are.
Remember, you can have you own thoughts & ideas, but if they differ from the left..... you are wrong
Brought to you by the "intolerant" left.......
in the animal world when two same sex animals have sex it's proving dominence. Why is it ok for gays to express their views but not the anti-gay.
First of all, I'm not sure I trust any science information from someone who can't even spell "dominance." Second, your statement is simply Not True; there are plenty of documented examples of same-sex pairs of animals mating for life. Third, what does "anti-gay" even mean???? GAY PEOPLE EXIST. To say that you're anti-gay is like saying you're "anti-sunshine" or "anti-gravity." I guess if you're "anti-gravity" you can pretend it doesn't exist, but you're still gonna bump your head when you fall down. The same with gay people: you can't just ignore us and hope we'll go away. . .
I took his comment to mean that a minority group should not be allowed to trample on the rights of a majority group, not a hostile statement against sexual minorities.
God Forbid that the majority be denied it's right to prevent those who are different from them from sitting with the real people at the front of the bus. I mean, give 'em an inch and they'll take a mile. After all, we all know that God didn't create those minority people, so who the hell said they should be treated as equals? They need to get back where they belong, in this case a very deep, sound-protected closet. My Bible tells me so!!!!!
Paduki,
Did you bother to read the quote?
I believe he is clearly saying keep them physically separate from the rest of us.
This is just plain "separate" and not equal.
I personally, have never read a better description of the typical conservative attitude.
Take out homosexual and replace it with whatever group they are hating on that day (black, poor, atheist, socialist, educated, hispanic etc) and that is basically the formula every time.
I wonder how much their tune is gonna change in the next few decades, seeing as how they are the minority now.
How can you read that quote and not see something very wrong with that type of mentality? We are all "minorities" of some type or another unless you are some sort of sheep or automaton...oh wait, that's right... we're talking about conservatives here...Hahahah!
Did you hear about the Polish gay dude?
He likes girls.
But can he change light bulbs?
Man has a right to speak. Gays should just sit down and suck it up.
Gay people have a right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
And Gay people also have the right to speak, and not from the back of the room,
while peeking over a wall!
Lech Walesa "should just sit down and suck it up!"
Having the right to speak does not mean that you have the right to not be disagreed with. Yes, he has the right to say what he wants, but people who disagree have the right to say what they want in return. They do not have to 'sit down and suck it up'. They can stand up and talk back!
That was a mistake... he didn't mean "sit down", he meant "kneel down".
He sounds like an out of touch relic but he earned his stripes.
I would trade our Nobel Prize winner for theirs.
Obama is a great president of a great country. Poland has a long way to go.
It's really not that far to hell, we made it there in 4 years.
Lets send him over there for the next four years so he can help them with their problems.
4 years? I thought we have been practicing reagans trcikle down voodoo for several decades now?
It took a long time for big money to create their heaven on earth on the backs of the working poor and it will take alot longer to fix it and that is assuming we can actually get the ball moving in the right direction.
If we can not get big money out of politics, it will never happen.
Asked where homosexuals should sit in the parliamentary chamber, he said: "No minority should climb all over the majority. Homosexuals should even sit behind a wall, and not somewhere at the front.
___________________________________________________________________________________
"...climb all over the majority."? Really? This indicates to me that certain Polish Christians share a lamentable trait with some of our home-grown variety: that of feeling persecuted if someone chooses not to embrace their mythology. See the post of Paduki ( comment #2, above ). Note the ( mis- ) use of the word "trample". The only thing that's getting trampled on are his itsy-bitsy feelings because mean ol' gays won't let self-appointed morality cops boss them around and won't allow others to stick their noses into their business. Or note the outrage of imnotlost ( #1 ), who's in high dudgeon because gays have the nerve to assume that the constitution applies to them. What's with the Christian fixation on persecution? I mean, if they're not persecuting others, they're feeling persecuted. I hate to break it to you folks, but many human interactions are persecution-neutral.
Sooo...You're an anti-christian bigot?
I did not read that anywhere in his post.
Unless you think facts are anti-christian and bigoted.
LOL well he would be right at home and welcomed with open arms into the Republican Party here in 'Merica......... As long as he was actually a closeted gay...
actually I thought he sounds JUST like a liberal--spewing hate and bigotry just picked the wrong target. Had he said "white people" or "conservatives" man you'd be kissing his feet! The guy is an icon perhaps he should be given just a little leeway. That's not acceptance of the statement but acceptance that gays would have it much worse in poland if it had not been for the bravery and stoic nature of this man.
Oh, please, Kal.
How many liberals are trying to remove rights from a minority?
Please provide links, if possible.
We won't stop picking on those poor 1%ers. Expecting them to pay taxes and contribute to society and all. Don't cha know we're just a bunch of godless bullies?/s
Don't even get me started on how awfully we treat those poor misunderstood catholic priests who just want to show their young male parishioners some love ;)
Minority hating, bullies I tell ya!
Another old man who is living in an age that has been passed by. Too bad he could not have looked to the future and equality, not the past.
I've always looked on Lech Walesa as a brother socialist---he ain't no bro of mine. Intolerance is intolerable. ASHLEY JUDD (DEM-KY) 2014! Adios Mitch.
Interesting. Way, way back when he stepped into the spotlight - it was all about fairness and equal treatment for all. I would find it hard to believe there wasn't a couple-two-three homo's that stood with him during that tumultuous time..but now....well, the pompous and arrogant fat toad is real quick to shout down anyone else who wants fairness and equality.
He has become EXACTLY what he despised.
Why wasn't Walesa's name in the headline? He's a person of great historical significance.
At least he was a person of historical significance, but not so much after that bigoted rant. He just did a great job tarnishing his reputation.
He'd have fit in well in the Jim Crow south, or in the modern Republican party.
Funny it is how a disproportionate number of religious folk view homosexuality as abomination--Christianity in particular, seems to attract the simplest of nuts. Walesa did great things for Poland; too bad he nursed such silly and antiquated views after all this time.
Unfortunately Lech is now too old and senile to remember what human rights are it seems. Wonder if he would feel the same way if he had been told the same thing about his people when he was at his peak. Can they take back a Nobel PEACE award?
yea, had it not been for Lech gays would have it so much better in poland. One square meal a day, all the work a body could handle and concrete floor. Recall who was running Poland when he pushed back for ALL Polish people including gays. Regardless of his out of charachter comment he's a hero and should be given slack. Too many libs spend their time wallowing in their freedom to ever understand the fight it took to get there.
True except that in his own mind he obviously wasn't fighting for everyone, just for the majority.
maybe his thinking is still "evolving"?
Past accomplishments do not put you above common decency. It is in fact those same past accomplishments and the fact that he has personally fought oppression that make this that much worse. He of all people, should have known better. Proof positive that religion will twist even a great mind.
Sounds like Walesa was fighting for the equivalent of the Jim Crow south.
Gee, this sounds awfully familiar. What other country is dealing with these exact same issues for the exact same reasons? Could it be the USA?
In 2011 President Obama visited Poland. In advance of his visit, he asked to meet with Walesa, to honor him. Walesa would not respond. Intentionally. Last year Mittens Romney visited Poland and not only did Walesa meet him, he publicly embraced Romney. Why would the Union Man Walesa not meet with the union organizer Obama but then meet with the tycoon Romney? Homophobe? Check! Racist? Check! He probably thinks women should be barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen.
The great hero Walesa is the past and now confirms that he has become infirm or just ugly.
I heard it was because Walesa could spot a communist from miles away.
Crime? Is Poland still a tyranny? Walesa expressed an opinion, as anyone in a free society has a right to do. "I may not agree with your statement, but I will defend to the death your right to make it" doesn't seem to hold much credence anymore.
Here's how it works. Anyone is free, within reason, to give their opinion. Others are then free to say that your opinion is idiotic. And if that opinion is intended to deny you equal rights, then you have a right to defend yourself against a form of social aggression.
John,
Apparently Poland doesn't have the same rights as we do. Your "quote" was applicable to the U.S. where we have the First Amendment; not so in Poland.
Robert Biedron - dumb Pollack to dumb Pollack.
You can lay his comment right at the feet of the Catholic Church. This bigoted opinion is right from the Catholic playbook and Walesa is a devout Catholic so his comment is not surprising at all, especially from a guy his age. Ironic that there are so many gay priests, many of whom join the priesthood thinking either it will help them to suppress the guilt they feel or so they can live in an all male frat-house. Anyway, I don't think this comment is any big deal. Just an old guy expressing a standard old guy mentality.
While it's true that Walesa is close to the Catholic hierarchy and thus certainly learned to be a dumb bigot from them, I suspect the fact that he lives in an eastern European country is at least as much to blame as his Catholicism.
Many Catholic countries in the west either have already achieved marriage equality or are about to. But all the old Soviet-bloc countries are still profoundly homophobic, even relatively enlightened (and not predominantly Catholic) countries like Latvia. Orthodox countries like Russia and Ukraine are currently enacting severe anti-gay laws. In contrast, 71% of American Catholics support marriage equality.
"No comment" would have been the responsible reply. However, I cannot fault the man for standing by his religious convictions. If you read all of the bible, it really does say homosexuality is "abomination". I'm not asking anyone to agree or disagree, merely stating what is written.
And while we live in a day and age where we're supposed to accept anything that isn't illegal, I can't find fault in someone standing by their convictions. In many places adultery is legal, profaning the name of the divine is protected speech, and wanting what your neighbor has is a way of life - all also considered sins by those who follow this faith - how is it any different to demand those who follow these beliefs accept those who commit other sins, and not speak against it?
Indigo-Rage, maybe it's the point that not everyone believes in the same religion and LAWS should not be made based on religion. In the bible it also states it is an abomination for women to wear pants, speak in church, cut your hair, eat ham, seafood etc etc... where are the laws against that? It is not the speech the is wrong it is the context of it. People can spew their hatred all they want, but when they start speaking of segregation and harm, then it is time for them to retire and let the younger generation lead the way cause they are no longer relevant.
His convictions that some citizens should be 2nd-class and not even offered a seat at the table, and that walls should be built to prevent them from ever sitting at the table? Or his conviction that Poland should enforce Catholic sharia law against gays?
Indigo, you'd have fit in perfectly in the Jim Crow south.
Why is this national news? We all know the Poles are 'less than stellar' in their tact and protocol. Just let the old (union) windbag flap his lips and ignore him.
@backtobasics......what do you mean, "We all know the Poles are 'less than stellar' in their tact and protocol." Talk about a bigoted, prejudicial statement. Is it because you find so much humor in Polish jokes, that you think that the jokes really tell the truth about the Polish people? Usually, when one tells demeaning jokes about others, it is to uplift their own sagging opinion of themselves.
This "old windbag" put his life on the line many many times to bring freedom to an entire nation. What have you done lately, you windbag, but put out enough hot air to create several black holes.
Walesa just became a Polish joke and he has only himself to blame.
Lech, stick to being a union organizer, your people skills suck.
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Why is it that believing differently from gay people and those who support them is considered "going astray"? I feel the same way now as I did 30 years ago just like Mr. Walesa.
Because we apply American politcal correctness in an imperialistic way. The entire world should grasp our "enlighened and evolved" way of thinking. The reality is much different. Americans are arrogant and think their way is the only way... unless it offends someone's religious or lifestyle beliefs by not being inclusive.
America has never embraced that there is a hell. It is more convenient to ignore it than to face it. With no hell, there is no judgement. With no judgement, there is no barrier to living a sinful lifestyle. While we can be saved, it does come with a caveat of turning away from sin. American political correctness cannot fathom that sin is wrong. Anyone who believes that is bigoted or hateful or their thinking has not evolved yet.
Eventually, the truth will catch up. On that day, many will cry, "Lord, Lord", but He will say go away for I never knew you....
(Livinginthewoods laughs his ass off then rolls his eyes and shakes his head in frustration)
The same reaction I try so hard to make sure my grade school aged kids don't see me have when they say or do something ignorant and/or naive.
Deeply religious = hates gays?
Not all religious folks are dumb bigots but the Catholic hierarchy definitely is, and Walesa is closely tied to them. And eastern Europe in general is profoundly homophobic, even relatively enlightened countries like Latvia which aren't predominantly Catholic.