The lesson to be learned here is that we, the worlds most powerful military, with highly trained soldiers, equipped with the most advanced weaponry and technologies,have not been able to subdue a highly motivated group of peasants armed with only small arms and ingenuity.

Yep, declared victory and leave...

The lesson to be learned here is america needs to stay out of these conflicts, or else conduct a real war. Go kill the enemy and then leave.

For the record, $1.2T has not been spent on Afghanistan. The current total is $618B on Afghanistan, which does not include interest. The total cost of both wars is over $1.4T.

Afghanistan following 11 years of US combat: 'Not much different'

Yep, the current administration has done little to draw this waste of a conflict to a close. The projected date was summer '13 and now is late '14... until further notice. Add to this the waste in Pakistan and now Syria and soon to be Niger... the warmongering goes on and on.

It's a lost cause to try and change a society bent on killing everyone they can including their own Muslim brothers. Thanks to the "Politically Correct" stand the rest of society has taken, the world will be rulled by Muslims in years to come. Just look at the birth rate of Muslims compared to non-muslims.

2008: The anti-war candidate Barack Hussein Obama

2011: Nobel Peace Prize winner Hussein sent cruise missiles into Libya without provocation

2013: US still has military presence in Iraq and Afghanistan and Hussein has killed and maimed 881 people in Pakistan including 175 children with drones

At least Obama didn't wait 8 years to kill Osama bin Laden when we had the chance like the last President did.

The nutters still believe that everything is Obama's fault.

Want to talk about being led around by the nose and sucking the cone of Big Oil. Everyone who is blasting Obama and blaming him are merely trying to divert the attentions away from the one who caused the problem in the first place.

Trillions of dollars later and 12,000 + America lives lost along with uncounted civilians causalities during that time.

Along come Obama though and makes good on his promise of killing Osama Bin Laden and bringing the troops home.....

and yet.....they still blame Obama for what happened before he was the President.

Such people are delusional because they think that the more that they talk about something and more that people talk about such a thing makes its a reality.

Not even wrong.

I wouldn't absolve Obama of this. Our country, especially the executive branch and the Department of "Defense," has an addiction to war that persists across administrations and party lines.

I have so much fear for the women in particular. What kind of pre-historic revenge will the Taliban inflict on them when they are back in power?

Afghanistan following 11 years of U.S. combat: "Not much different."

Well Jesus H. Christ - 11 f*cking years, 2200 dead troops and 1.2 TRILLION DOLLARS later (and that's probably only ONE TENTH of what these NATO bozos are fessing up to and letting on) , who'd have thunk it, eh folks?

Mission accomplished.

*eyes roll*

John Colorado....How convient that you forgot that the last 5 years plus even more American lives belong to Barack H Obama, not Bush or ANYONE ELSE on the face of this earth!

Ron Paul is/was right and it's a shame you didn't vote for him.

BTW... Let's keep John Kerry the hell out of there, or he'll give them 10's of millions more aid!!!

The reporter did not make a single statement about the ideology that promotes this distorted view of the world and inspires the Taliban. After all, the word Taliban means student. Student of what? Student of Islam. As long as Islamic hegemony reigns supreme, there will be Afghanistan and Pakistan etc...

We ignore the Gorilla in the room because it looks too dangerous to address. We are even afraid to discuss it. And so, the Gorilla even controls what we say and write.

Not everybody wants some uninvited "guests" trying change their culture, like Hitler tried to do to Poland.

What did we expect? That they would all be wearing red, white and blue jumpsuits and singing Yankee Doodle? We were obligated somewhat to remove the Taliban, mostly because we helped them into power. Other than that we wasted our time, money and too many lives there.

The biggest disaster to befall women in the history of human existence is Islam. Denial of the basic human freedom to dress as you please , think what you please , say what you think , adopt any philosophy of life you chose , are what Islam has to offer over half the inhabitants of the world.

Islam knows that the decrepit West , with no commitment to human values and no willingness to fight for freedom is ripe for the taking by those willing to die to eliminate them. The future is a dark and depressing return to the 7th century with creatures who engaged in mass be-headings and enslavement of those who refused to submit.

"My family, and many of those I work with, we have been threatened with death." So he’s leaving, he says, having spent months negotiating a labyrinth of paperwork to gain approval to take his family of nine to the U.S. and take his chances there if he can.

Folks, get ready for many, many MANY more boatloads of these vermin to support. Many happy returns.

The reporter did not make a single statement about the ideology that promotes this distorted view of the world and inspires the Taliban. After all, the word Taliban means student. Student of what?

Charles, you should look into the role that the US played in helping to bring the Taliban into power. They had some help from us albeit silently. Radical is radical whether it's in Afghanistan or in Kentucky.

The biggest disaster to befall women in the history of human existence is Islam

Not necessarily true. It's judeo-christian rooted religions in general. All of them place women as a peg below men and in most cases technically as the property of men.

Religion is the problem and the world will be better off the day that it is abolished.

The biggest disaster to befall women in the history of human existence is Islam.

Christianity evolved from the era of the Crusades to the present. In Europe, where it was strongest, people barely think about it at all anymore. Maybe there's hope for Islam, too.

Translation: Afghanistan = Total waste of our money and lives...

But look at the money being made by the war profiteers...

@dwight..........After telling us we should not dance on Osama's grave and spike the football, Obama and your kind have been inciting Al Qaeda ever since. That's the reason they are coming back with a vengeance. BTW, Obama is giving the OK for the Keystone pipeline. I guess Democrats can be bought by Big Oil as well. Obama's top five donors were JP Morgan Chase, USB, Citicorp, Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley. Yes, Big Money has him bought, too.

I only read about 'half,' of your tirade; however, do note that one of your prime premises are flawed. OBL did not begin his activities as a result of Clinton bombarding innocent Muslims in Iraq. His justification for waging a gorilla war against the US was spurred by a much simpler act; chiefly, his view that the US had no business being in Saudi Arabia. With time his idea evolved to further incorporate other aspects of what he viewed as US imperialism. Still, the initial premise was that the US should not have been allowed to set foot in Saudi Arabia.

As for the rest of your banter. No one outside of the US cares if its the democrats or the republicans. If you stretch history long enough you will see that there was a perpetrator in either party looking to do what politicians do best: Make money with the blood of innocent civilians.

To LeftLeaning Lisa, the experts have said the final costs for both wars will exceed 6 trillion dollars. Apparently you forgot Bush financed the wars with money borrowed from China. There is interest to be paid. We will be treating our wounded soldiers for the next 50 years. Care to guess what that will cost? We also have to replace equipment worn out in the deserts of Iraq and the mountains of Afghanistan.

The real reason we went to Afghanistan was an agreement with the Taliban fell through, which was supposed to permit the TAPI gas pipeline from Turkmenistan - Afghanistan - Pakistan and on to India. It was to pipe Israeli owned gas to India. We had to then remove the Taliban from the nothern borders , in order to guard the pipeline. Israel stands to make trillions, while American soldiers are suffering from wounds.

Up until 2000, our CIA was in bed with the Taliban and the Pakistani secret service. They screwed us over, so they had to go. Hence 9/11 to provide the excuse to invade Afghanistan. It was always about gas and oil. In Iraq, it was for an oil pipeline from Kirkuk to Haifa in Israel.

Once the Pentagon's choice to lead the "new" Iraq, Chalabi
promised to reopen an old British-built pipeline from Kirkuk in northern Iraq
to the Israeli port of Haifa. The plan impressed Richard Perle, Douglas Feith
and other conservatives influencing Bush administration policy toward Iraq in
the lead-up to last year's war.

The idea also drew enthusiastic response from Israel.

"The pipeline would be a dream," Yosef Paritzky, Israel's minister
of infrastructures, said as reported by Salon.com. "We'd have an
additional source of supply, and could even export some of the crude through
Haifa. But we'd need a treaty with Iraq . . . to build the pipeline."

Once Chalabi assumed a position of influence in the new Iraqi government,
Israel would get its treaty, the neoconservatives were assured.

Not much different? Check out the bank accounts of JP Morgan, etc that made a fortune mining for gold while our military provided security.

The Taliban got rid of the poppy fields. Thanks to democracy, those fields are back and producing good American Opiates for Higher Corporate profits.

dwighthuth - At least Obama didn't wait 8 years to kill Osama bin Laden when we had the chance like the last President did.

Let me guess instead of the Demoncraptic Party reguritating into your mouth Omamabird turned around and crapped into your mouth for your Opinions (Definition: Opinion - a personal view, attitude, or appraisal without knowledge, thought, or reason.).

FACTS (Definition: Fact - Experience or Observatons):

In October 2001, President Bush as Commander In Chief by Executive Order Delegated the Standing Presidential Authorized Mission to Locate and Capture Osama Bin Laden to the Director of the CIA, Commander US Military Special Operations Command, Commander US Military Joint Special Operations Command. It is absolutely necessary to Capture Osama Bin Laden to gain his thought processes and planning processes that he imprinted on his Al Quada Leadership for the US to preemptively interdict all Al Quada Activities Worldwide.

The CIA's "Little Ms. 100%" is still going after Osama Bin Laden, 16 years (2012).

In 2006 President Bush by Standing Executive Order Authorized the Termination of Osama Bin Laden after Amending the US No Assassination Policy. The Termination of Osama Bin Laden was considered a Mission Failure (Locate and Capture, later verified by Mark Owen's Book).

Harvard International Review Article, 2006, "US No Assassination Policy On The Offensive".

President Clinton's 1998 State of the Union Address, War With Iraq, US Support of Holy Warriors of Islam Bosnia, etc..

http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1998/01/27/sotu/transcripts/clinton/

President Clinton's US Law, H.R.4655 "Iraqis Liberation Act of 1998" Section 3 Overthrow of President Hussein, Section 2 Findings (Justifications), Weapons of Mass Destruction.

http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/1057063/posts

President Clinton as Commander In Chief Ordered 1998 US Military Operation Desert Fox.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/desert_fox.htm

President Bush's Mission Accomplished Speech. (The Documented LIES of the Demoncraps, including President Obama's Reelection, "Bush Unilateral US Invasion of Iraq")

http://articles.cnn.com/2003-05-01/us/bush.transcript_1_general-franks-major-combat-allies?_s=PM:US

AND TO THE AUTHOR THAT WAS "JUST VISITING" AND NOT LIVING HERE FOR YEARS:

Mike Taibbi / NBC News "A spectacular view over the snow-covered Hindu Kush peaks on the way into Kabul."

Saying "Hindu Kush" is like saying Pakistan is still part of HINDU India. The correct term at ISLAMIC Afghanistan, is the Pamir Mountains "Roof of the World". The same ones that we have been conducting US Military Asymmetric MOUNTAIN Warfare at for years of consecutive tours and living with the locals (NOT on secure FOBs/COBs, Green Zones, USAF Bases, etc. like you "just visiting" living at a secure Hotel at an Afghan City.). And yes, your photo does record the near Arctic Winters here, as to the conditions we are conducting Arctic/Winter US Military Asymmetric Mountain Warfare.

It was since the time of the Egyptian Pharaohs that the Indians started mining the "Mineral Wealth" of Afghanistan creating thousands of miles of mines, mining tunnels, mineshafts, etc.. This continued during the British Colonial Era (British Empire). This is how the Indian/English name became Hindu Kush, and not what the locals (Afghans) called the Roof of the World, Pamir Mountains.

This calling the mountains of Afghanistan the Hindu Kush is like the AMERICAN (Not Japanese) Websters Dictionary, AMERICAN Collegiate Dictionary, Definition of Sushi being Raw Fish, instead of the actual Cooked Rice Cake topped with anything. As Sashmi is Raw Fish, not Sushi. Just because Americans say something is something, that does not mean that is correct Worldwide. You go ask directions to the Hindu Kush while up here in the Pamir Mountains they will tell you to go to India, in October 2001 we did the same thing "Hindu Kush" and they told us those Mountains were at India.

http://www.biciklisto.de/Pamir/23_WEB.JPG

BECAUSE OF PRESIDENT OBAMA'S FAILED FOREIGN POLICIES:

The US lost the US Military Logistics Support Bases at Pakistan required to support the United Nation's Mission to LANDLOCKED US Ally Afghanistan.

The Unsupported UN, US, NATO Military Forces MUST abandon US Ally Afghanistan by 2014 to get massacred again by the Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban like after the US Abandoned US Ally Afghanistan after Operation Cyclone, with the 1990s Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban masscring our US Ally the 1980s Pro US Afghan Muhajeen, then massacring any suspected Collaborators to the Christians, Jews, Unbelievers (large number of the Afghan Civilian population), destroying anything "Western", "Modern", "Non Islamic"; with the Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban fully supported by the USSR Backed Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran.

I was 100% behind W when we went into Afghanistan, I supported Obama's decision to up the ante there after he took office. In retrospect, most of it was a mistake. The Taliban needed to be punished severely for harboring OBL. At this time I see no point in spending 1 more red cent, much less 1 more American life, to fight for these people. We gave them a chance to enter the 19th century, they punted, lets get out now, completely, no strings attached but for 2 promises. One, we will not interfere in their countries internal affairs in any way, shape, or form for all eternity. Number two, that if ever we (the USA) can trace any future terror attack on the United States back to their country, we'll turn it into a radioactive wasteland for the next 200 years.

The US failed to learn from history and is paying the price for it. The history of Afghanistan is a long string of conquering armies regretting ever having stepped foot in the place. The Persians, Alexander the Great, Mauryan Empire, Muslims, Ghenghis Khan, Timurid Empire, Mughal Empire, British Empire, and Soviet Union all went there. Some faced total disaster and others had mild success, but most of them didn't hold onto it for long. It just isn't worth the heartache and misery to try and hold that barren wasteland.

StMiller =======It's just this misguided equation of Islam with other world religions that demonstrates how far gone we are.

Other religions are not throwing acid on little girls to preclude them receiving an education , or shooting them in the head for the same aspiration , or forcing them to wear oppressive garments to cover every square inch of their bodies , or mutilating their genitals so they won't enjoy sex, or passing laws that require 4 male witness in order to prove they were raped. No , they owe that treatment to the religion of submission.

More broadly , other religions aren't commandeering airplanes and murdering their occupants and thousands of others in buildings made their target. Other religions aren't blowing up trains , restaurants , weddings , marketplaces , etc. in order to force their faith on humanity. Other religions aren't issuing fatwas directing that people who write books or draw cartoons be murdered. Other religions don't declare that anyone who seeks to leave them and adopt another belief be murdered. Other religions don't brandish and exalt a doctrine like Jihad where they encourage and urge members to kill and fight to advance their particular faith and eliminate all other points of view. No , Islam stands unique in the world today , the one in which we live.

It's this false equation of beliefs when the facts so strongly demonstrate otherwise that militates against the ability of the West to successfully repel the Islamic assault on freedom of belief , be it religious or otherwise.

We could win if we wanted to. We won't be able to "win" wars anymore because we (collectively Americans) aren't willing to do what is necessary to bring our enemies to their knees.

We destroyed entire cities with tons of incendiary bombs and nuclear weapons against the Germans and Japanese.

Now, American idiots cry for us to be "civil" with f***ing terrorists, who by the way, aren't eligible for Geneva Convention protections.

No, to the modern American, demagoguery is more important than victory. Blaming Bush and Obama seems more attractive...

The biggest disaster to befall men in the history of human existence is women.

Hello tapdacintgirl...you shouldn't make a comment like your's when you have no clue what your talking about! Have you been to Afghanistan? Can you name ONE weapon the bad guys are using? Never mind, those are rhetorical questions, because I know you haven't and you can't. The bad guys may live like animals but they are far from fighting like one. They have a seemingly endless supply of weapons as well as all types of explosives to use against us. You must think that they are using cross bows and old rusty rifles. How WRONG and ignorant you are! Stick to something you know like tap dancin and boiling water.

Get out of that worthless backward country now! Again and again we see proof that the hate filled culture of islam provides nothing more than an illiterate, cruel, hate filled culture, let these low life scum kill each other, keep our people home! There is not a single muslim nation that is anything but a lazy, dirty, illiterate, hate filled cruel failure, the world will never know peace and prosperity until this culture of islam is vanquished once and for all. never, never, never ever!

Nothing will change anywhere in the entire Middle East until the inhabitants want it to, and they clearly do not.

Jack-1006819 post 1.37

Your post is right on the money. I couldn't have said it better myself.

'Afghanistan following 11 years of US combat: 'Not much different"

...and we are nearly 100 billion dollars in the hole over this dirt hole and 2178 lives lost so far.

What's the fascination with those as$holes anyway?

100 billion dollars could create jobs, put Americans backk to work, build better schools, roads etc for AMERICANS.

Anybody get this, or am I talking to myself?

Afghanistan's crushing reality: More than a decade later 'not much different'

Afghanistan following 11 years of US combat: 'Not much different'

Thanks Cheney, Bush, Rice, Rumsfeld!!

You broke it, you fix it. Oh, that's right you passed on your biggest blunder to President Obama so your people can lame it on him!

What's the fascination with these as$holes anyway?

LOL...Fascination? Didn't that start with the @!$%#s, Bush, Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld I mentioned above.

david-

Your post 1.6 was brilliant.

In October 2001, President Bush as Commander In Chief by Executive Order Delegated the Standing Presidential Authorized Mission to Locate and Capture Osama Bin Laden to the Director of the CIA, Commander US Military Special Operations Command, Commander US Military Joint Special Operations Command. It is absolutely necessary to Capture Osama Bin Laden to gain his thought processes and planning processes that he imprinted on his Al Quada Leadership for the US to preemptively interdict all Al Quada Activities Worldwide.

US Military Asymmetric Warfare attached to the CIA's SAD/SOG go into Afghanistan. The Mission Overthrow the Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban Government, eliminate the Al Quada and Holy Warrior of Islam Training Camps that Sponsored the 9/11 2001 Attacks.

It failed because our troops fought these goons with one hand tied behind their backs, david. When you do that, you get a result like this.

Ever since World War II, when our touchy-feely vibes towards our enemies entered the picture, our war record has been abysmal.

AXEL,you are spot onmy friend. IN Vietnam as well as Iraq and Afghanistan, we are more concerned pc than winning. The Taliban is as bad as Hitler and the only way do eradicate them is to beat the living @!$%# out of them. No more nation building. No more compromise. Do what our guys are trained to do: Kill the enemy.

Afghanistan is unwinnable.

This is not a real war, it's a counterinsurgency that has devolved into a politically correct bastardization of the greatest military in history. This is what happens when we allow politicians to wage a war rather than generals. I haven’t heard so many “I’m sorry’s” since Barrack Husseins apology tour in 2009. As such, the best we can hope for is that the Afghani's will create a government of their own that will promote prosperity and safety for its people. History tells us this will never happen.

A report from the nonpartisan International Crisis Group has concluded that Afghanistan is utterly unable to provide for its own security when international forces leave. Plagued by factionalism and corruption the country is far from ready to assume responsibility for the security needed.

So, after nearly 12 years of "training" and support Afghanistan is no better. Our nation building hasn't necessarily failed, rather the people are incapable of being trained. Poverty, illiteracy, terrorist inspired fear and corruption will never allow any improvement in humanitarian efforts. Look how these same issues have crippled our own nation over the past 50 years. How can we fix poverty and illiteracy, the two most symbiotic social issues we have here, in a, at best, third-world country?

The frustration will be when we finally do leave and the same insurgents return and reestablish their dominion over the unwashed masses. Pakistan will continue to harbor, support and encourage the Taliban and its allies, including the Haqqani group and Gulbuddin Hekmatyar’s organization. Russia, China and Iran will continue their combined corruption and resistance to any resolution of nuclear proliferation.

The most troubling part is our continuing insistence that we can expand into Somalia,Yemen, Sudan, Syria and Libya and not further disrupt our fragile alliances in the regions.

Yesterday we gave $250 million to Egypt to bribe Morsi into some convoluted economic allegiance. It seems the 16 F-16's and 200 Abrams tanks we just gave them wasn't enough to buy their support.

Seems the sequester is not an issue beyond our borders. I doubt bribing our enemies will work once the cash runs out for those causes. Then again, we will never know how much is really redistributed in the name of "peace-keeping".

It's time to admit this was a very big exercise in futility and bring our troops home. However, on the way out we should do a few things.

First, we should send Kerry to India to announce our new strategic alliance with them and their nuclear capabilities so Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan that we may have left but we're not really gone.

Next we should announce that all the foreign aid we had been giving to all these countries will be stopped and half of it will go to Israel as a good faith gesture.

After that we will announce that within a date to be announced we will begin the complete carpet bombing of all the poppy fields in Afghanistan, even the ones they think we don't know about. This should put a dent in the Taliban and Al Qaeda's economy.

Finally, despite Barrack Husseins fictitious sequester scare tactics, we should mobilize another carrier group in the Arabian Sea just to make sure the commercial oil shipping lanes stay uninterrupted and possibly be ready if Iran isn't serious about reopening talks about their nuclear enrichment goals.

The story headline says:

Afghanistan following 11 years of US combat: 'Not much different'

I'll expound a bit further; after the troops are gone, and the Taliban are once again in power, it will be as if nothing ever happened in the first place.

In that respect, Afghanistan remains locked in a 7th century time bubble.

"Hello tapdacintgirl...you shouldn't make a comment like your's when you have no clue what your talking about! Have you been to Afghanistan? Can you name ONE weapon the bad guys are using? Never mind, those are rhetorical questions, because I know you haven't and you can't. You must think that they are using cross bows and old rusty rifles. How WRONG and ignorant you are! ."

To twiss

• I have not been to Afghanistan...have you?
• The weapon of choice is the AK-47 which fires a 7.62 X39 mm round with a weight of 281 grams. It is ubiquitous throught the world and has been manfacutred by both Eastern Block countries in addition to China.
• RPG's (rocket propelled grenades in case you need a bit of help twiss) are another common weapon used by the Afghan's
• There are countless and readily available common products and comodities by which they are able to create explosive devices
• The above mentioned explosives are often used to make IED's or may be used in car bombs.

HOTTICKET-2304234 - It failed because our troops fought these goons with one hand tied behind their backs, david. When you do that, you get a result like this.

That "one hand tied behind backs" occured when President Obama imposed his US Civilian Law Enforcement Rules of Engagement on the US Military, as "Cannot shoot until shot".

Read post#4.6.

The Cost of the Facts that I posted was:

Of the almost thousand of us that started as the US Military Training Teams to US Ally Iraq during the Iran Iraq Wars, rotated to Operation Cyclone, and everything in between till now; there are only a few dozen of us left.

moshuluu,

Typical low or no information, no education post.

#1.4 paidmyfee - The one thing that has not changed since 2001 is that democrats are idiots. 2,300 Americans died and you want to pretend it never happened in order to push a political agenda.

People who have limited vocabulary skills inevitably resort to name calling of other people, whom they don't know. Sadly, this is true as exhibited by your comments. "Only weak minds denigrate others."

TO: gary-309869 who wrote:

"The biggest disaster to befall women ... Denial of the basic human freedom to dress as you please , think what you please , say what you think, adopt any philosophy of life you chose..."

Sounds like the Republican Platform to me.

j.agdersmith - I only read about 'half,' of your tirade;

Automatic Name Calling "tirade", and only Reading Half the Facts due to your conditioned Attention Deficit Disorder, one liner Twits or Tweets.

j.agdersmith - OBL did not begin his activities as a result of Clinton bombarding innocent Muslims in Iraq.

Your Opinion not a Fact (Experience or Observations). I was there, and we had to emergency exfiltrate from Iraq thru Redacted after even the few Pro US Iraqis turned against us.

Previously, those of us that had survived the US Military Training Teams to US Ally Iraq during the Iran Iraq Wars, rotated to Operation Cyclone opposed President Clinton's US Policy Overthrow of President Hussein; as we knew from Experience that President Hussein was the Counterbalance to the Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran using the Iraqis Oil Wealth (Not the US Taxpayers money) and the lives of the Iraqis Citizens of the Iraqis Military (not our arses). We were threatened with imprisonment, detentions, etc. so we did our mission, go into Iraq attached to the CIA's SAD/SOG.

j.agdersmith - His justification for waging a gorilla guerrilla war against the US was spurred by a much simpler act; chiefly, his view that the US had no business being in Saudi Arabia.

That was the original intent of Fundamentalist Islamic Osama Bin Laden creating his Fundamentalist Islamic Al Quada and the 1993 First World Trade Center Bombings.

NOT what happened in 1998 after 1998 Operation Desert Fox.

Those are Facts ((Firsthand) Experience or Observations) based on being a participant (survivor); not reading someone else's opinions based on information from non participants.

Gary-309869 - the evil of religion has nothing to do with what idiots do in the name of it. It's the fact that you can't argue against someone for how they twist it for their purposes. If some jerk says his religion allows him to throw acid on some woman and society is forced to cowtow to religion then how are you going to tell him that he is wrong? Are you going to say that your set of fantasy stories is more viable than his therefore his are outlawed? Every religion is fake and no fake is anymore real than another one ergo you can't say one believer is more right than another.

Just watch what is going to happen after NATO forces are withdrawn in 2014.

Within two years it will be Paki proxy Taliban take over.

With strategic allies like Pakistan and Saudi Arabia one does not need enemies.

This correspondent will not be able to even revisit the place to write the news item/article!

David Blowhard Wolfowitz, neocon war monger, is that you, spouting off your nonsensical asymetric warfare fairy tales?

Guess what, Clinton didn't invade Afghanistan and Iraq. That was done by Bush and Cheney, along with the Zionist neocons who staffed the Pentagon. Here is a list for your edification.

Chairman
Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board - Richard Perle

Deputy
Defense Secretary (Former) - Paul Wolfowitz

Under
Secretary of Defense - Douglas Feith

National
Security Council Advisor - Elliott Abrams

Under
Secretary for Arms Control - David Wurmser

Pentagon’s
Defense Policy Board - Eliot Cohen

National
Security Study Group - Edward Luttwak

Pentagon’s
Defense Policy Board - Kenneth Adelman

Defense
Intelligence Agency Analyst (Former) - Lawrence (Larry) Franklin ( the AIPAC
spy)

It should be noted that not one 9/11 hijacker was from eithetr Iraq or Afghanistan. The total number of al-Qaeda was less than a thousand. For that ficticious reason, we invaded Afghanistan at he cost of around 2 trillion dollars.

As I posted earlier, the real reason we went there was to protect the TAPI gas pipeline for Israel.

Oil companies proposed the pipeline in 1995, but
it dropped off their agenda after the Taliban took control of Afghanistan the
following year. The plan was revived after the United States-led invasion of
Afghanistan in 2001, and received backing from the Asian Development Bank,
which financed feasibility studies.

Iran
can sell gas to India at a third the price of Turkmenistan. This is the ENTIRE
issue. In Turkmenistan Israel holds the lease rights to sell this gas and US
companies are building the pipeline called TAPI. This has gotten Iran upset and
that is what the whole reason for petroleum sanctions. We have US military
holding the Taliban at bay in the North all the while prince and his private
paramilitary mercenary forces are executing pipeline security privately in the
South to lend some sort of propriety to this whole sham of a war.

Oil companies proposed the pipeline in 1995, but it dropped off their agenda after the Taliban took control of Afghanistan the following year. The plan was revived after the United States-led invasion of Afghanistan in 2001, and received backing from the Asian Development Bank, which financed feasibility studies.

Iran can sell gas to India at a third the price of Turkmenistan. This is the ENTIRE issue. In Turkmenistan Israel holds the lease rights to sell this gas and US companies are building the pipeline called TAPI. This has gotten Iran upset and that is what the whole reason for petroleum sanctions. We have US military holding the Taliban at bay in the North all the while prince and his private paramilitary mercenary forces are executing pipeline security privately in the South to lend some sort of propriety to this whole sham of a war.

Any comments David?

I was in 9th grade when this "war" started. I said to myself... who are we fighting? This isn't like any other war we have ever fought. Who are the taliban and who isn't? who is al-queda and who isn't and how do we tell? Now, 10+ years later I still disagree with everything about this war, the only difference now is that we have approaching 14 trillion in debt from it. Lets review the straight facts about this "war."

1. This is a war for resources most definitely. It is disguised as a war against terrror but refer to my above statements. Whether it be Uranium or oil it doesn't matter. \

2. Cheney and his cronies stood to make millions if not billions if they waged this "war on terror." Halliburton and Enron anyone? Energy is the key. Also contractors were hired to rebuild Iraq after we bombed the shi* out of it. They made millions and some of it is uncounted for. By some i mean millions of taxpayers dollars.

3. Very little has been accomplished as far as womens rights go. These people are bass akwards. They follow a doctrine that requires women to be in full submission. Some may argue it is a cultural thing rather than a religion thing. Either way, it makes me sick and shouldn't be tolerated.

4. Still waiting on the weapons of mass destruction to be found in Iraq...

5.It is def true that the taliban etc would love to see america crumble. So what? add that to the list of people around the world that would love that to be the case! By the way how are we expecting them to stop hating us when we kill the men and then their children grow up to hate us. Hate breeds violence. If your father died because America killed him, don't you think you would think america was the enemy? Killing breeds more killing.

6.North korea anyone? They actually claimed to have WMD's and spoke proudly of it unlike Saddam who repeatedly said he didn't have any. North Korea basically told us to wage war or sanctions... did we attack Korea? No. Some may say it's because of china. Regardless, they pose a definite threat to the U.S. to this day. Much more than Saddam ever could.

7. The terrorist have won. Look at our airports and the ridiculous TSA nazis?! The only people being harassed are our own citizens. And yes TSA that is in fact my under-wire causing my breast area anomaly. Isn't it only polite i grope you as well as a token of our new found friendship? The terrorists are laughing right now as we consistently screen our babies in wheelchairs, our elderly in walkers, our everyday citizens trying to get on with life. They laugh as we are all groped and pulled aside all the while our supposed constitutional rights are being obliterated. Yes folks they have won.

Lastly, The terrorists can now just sit back and watch america crumble because of our ECONOMY. People complain about welfare spending (12% federal budget), turning on our most vulnerable folks all the while forgetting we spend 22% of our federal budget on military and needless wars. Against it then, against it now. I wish i was happier to say i told you so but our country is blowing hard right now and it is so sad.

tapdancingirltgirl...Why yes I have been to Afghanistan. I have just retired after a 25 year career in the Army and during that career I was in Iraq four times and Afghanistan twice. The only thing your post shows is that you know how to Google. Keep doing your research and in your next post I want you to explain what their mortars are called and what an EFP is. Nice work so far, except you haven't identified your sources.

RalphH - It should be noted that not one 9/11 hijacker was from eithetr Iraq or Afghanistan.

Proof that you are a low or no information uneducated adolescent; just like Fundamentalist Islamic Jonathan-1982062 telling the US to attack the US Allies of Saudi Arabia and Pakistan.

RalphH - The total number of al-Qaeda was less than a thousand

Really, again you KNOW NOTHING. Just what Obamabird crapped into your mouth. After the 1993 First World Trade Center Bombing Al Quada starting becoming many International Franchises of the Al Quada Saudi Arabia (AQ), Al Quada Yemen (AQY), Al Quada Syria (AQS), Al Quada Iraq (AQI), Al Quada Islamic Maghreb (AQIM), Al Quada Arabian Peninsula, (AQAP), etc., associated Franchises of Al Sheebah (Somalia), Arabic Omani Muslims (Sudan), etc..

Even after 2001 Operation Viking Hammer at the Autonomous Kurdistanis Region of Northern Iraq, Syria, Southern Turkey, Northwestern Iran, the Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran's Special Forces, Quds, has been training, arming, funding MILLIONS of Holy Warriors of Islam as funded by Trillions USDs per year of Mandatory Islamic Tithes, in Asymmetric Warfare (Insurgency, with the intent of Overthrowing the US Allies Established Governments by starting Civil Wars).

In 2010 US Ally Turkey made a serious miscalculation when the attempted to attack the Kurdistanis PKK, HPG, KGK, with the result of attacking the millions of Holy Warriors of Islam. US Ally Turkey under cover of their Turkish Airforce Airstrikes withdrew. This started the Holy Warriors of Islam returning to their Nations of Origin, especially the Hamas Foreign Fighters and Fundamentalist Islamic Muslim Brotherhood returning as the "Peace Flotillas".

The US Department of State List of Holy Warriors of Islam aka Terrorist Organizations:

(aka Jihadists, Terrorists) consisting of the International Al Quada Franchise (AQ, AQY, AQS, AQI, AQAP, AQIM, AQ Somalia, etc.), Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG aka "the Libyan Rebels"), Army of Islam Pakistan (not the Pakistanis Military), Pakistanis Taliban, Army of Islam Gaza, Hezbollah (Party of Allah, Palestine, Lebanon, Gaza, Libya, South and Central Americas, etc.), Hamas Foreign Fighters (Palestine, Libya, Gaza, South and Central Americas, maybe Mexico, etc.), Islamic Chechen Foreign Fighters, Muslim Brotherhood (Alexandria Egypt), Kongra Gel/Kurdistan Worker's Party (KGK/PKK), Jemaah Islamiya (JI), Abu Sayyaf Group (ASG), Fatah al-Islam (FAI), Ansar al-Islam (AI), Ansar al-Sunna (AS), Abu Nidal Organization (ANO), Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade (AAMS), Al-Shabaab, Ansar al-Islam (AAI), Asbat al-Ansar, Gama'a al-Islamiyya (Islamic Group), Harakat ul-Jihad-i-Islami/Bangladesh (HUJI-B), Harakat ul-Mujahidin (HUM), Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban of Afghanistan, Islamic Jihad Union (IJU), Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU), Jaish-e-Mohammed (JEM) (Army of Mohammed), Jemaah Islamiya organization (JI), Kata'ib Hezbollah (KH), Lashkar-e Tayyiba (LT) (Army of the Righteous), Lashkar i Jhangvi (LJ), Moroccan Islamic Combatant Group (GICM), Mujahedin-e Khalq Organization (MEK), Palestine Liberation Front (PLF), Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ), Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP), PFLP-General Command (PFLP-GC), Harakat-ul Jihad Islami (HUJI), Jundallah, etc.

Moro Islamic Liberation Group (MILF), etc. recently added Haqqani Network (Pakistan), Boko Haram (Nigeria) to the US Department of State List.

RalphH - Any comments David?

Yes, you and your low information uneducated posts smell like arse.

ashp - 4. Still waiting on the weapons of mass destruction to be found in Iraq...

Since you are TOO LAZY to do your own Research and too young to have been a participant (Definition of Fact: Experience or Observation):

From President Clinton's 1998 State of the Union Address:

Together we must also confront the new hazards of chemicaland biological weapons, and the outlaw states, terrorists and organized criminals seeking to acquire them. Saddam Hussein has spent the better part of this decade, and much of his nation's wealth, not on providing for the Iraqi people, but on developing nuclear, chemical and biological weapons and the missiles to deliver them. The United Nations weapons inspectors have done a truly remarkable job, finding and destroying more of Iraq's arsenal than was destroyed during the entire gulf war. Now, Saddam Hussein wants to stop them from completing their mission. I know I speak for everyone in this chamber, Republicans and Democrats, when I say to Saddam Hussein, "You cannot defy the will of the world", and when I say to him, "You have used WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION before; we are determined to deny you the capacity to use them again.

You want to read the rest of the stup!d statements of President Clinton's 1998 State of the Union Address:

President Clinton's 1998 State of the Union Address, War With Iraq, US Support of Holy Warriors of Islam Bosnia, etc..

http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1998/01/27/sotu/transcripts/clinton/

President Clinton's US Law H.R.4655 "Iraqis Liberation Act of 1998" Section 3 US Policy Overthrow of President Hussein.

Since you cannot understand, Translation: Declaring the Overthrow of a Sovereign Nation's Government is a Declaration of War, just as if the Chinese and Russian Federation made it their Policies to Overthrow President Obama.

Section 2 Weapons of Mass Destruction and the typical Demoncraptic Party LIE of "tried to kill my daddy", which was actually President Clinton (42) NOT President Bush (43):

Section 2 Findings (Justifications):

(6) In April 1993, Iraq orchestrated a failed plot to assassinate former President George Bush during his April 14-16, 1993, visit to Kuwait.

http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/1057063/posts

As far as the bullsh!t Demoncraptic Party nonsense about Halliburton, KBR, Blackwater (Xe):

1. There are over 3,000 US Contractors.

2. This became a Political Issue, because the US Contractors that refused to hire the more expensive US Military Veterans, did not meet the minimum requirements of the US Military Contracts of Experience in providing Support during Combat Operations (Something you cannot afford to learn on the job, that does result in unnecessary deaths).

Those cheapskate US Contractors then started screaming to US Congress, "No Bid", "Sole Source", etc. while the majority of the over 3,000 US Contractors that did hire US Military Veterans were awarded the US Military Contracts. US Congress (US Senate Appropriations Committee, Democratic Party Controlled) reviewed these US Contractors whinning, crybabying and found their complaints without merit.

3. It was after President Clinton's Cut to the Bone Reductions of the US Military, that the US Contractors became absolutely necessary, after many US Military Career Fields (Military Occupational Skills, MOS's) were eliminated and became the too expensive overpaid "Fair and Living Wages" US Civilians of the US Contractor Jobs: Logistics, Supply, Transportation (Sea Air Land), Maintenance (Ships, Submarines, Vehicles, Aircraft, Weapons Systems, Facilities, etc.), Sanitation (Waste Disposal, Water Purification, Bathing Facilities, Laundry Services, etc.), Food Services (US Military Dining Facilities), Personnel Administration, lots of etc..

Don't let the Documented Historical Facts interfere with your Demoncraptic Party Lies.

And how about this you go research the unclassified information pertaining to Sargat Iraq of 2001 Operation Viking Hammer and 2002 Operation Hotel California. If the US Politicians would have let us follow the evidence we would have gone into Syria, Iraqis Chemical Weapons moved from Iraq to Syria (the same Chemical Weapons the current President Obama Administration is worried about). Prior to the US Military Training Teams to US Ally Iraq during the Iran Iraq Wars I had a comfortable 06:00 hours to 17:00 hours desk job with Nuclear, Missiles, Chemical, Biological, Conventional Munitions, etc. during the Iran Iraq Wars we saw the Iraqis use Chemical Weapons to end the years long Iran Iraq Wars; just like the US use of Nuclear Weapons to end WWII with Japan. Prior to the Iraqis Invasion of Kuwait we were part of the United Nation's Observer Teams monitoring the Iraqis Oil for Food Program, after the Iraqis Invasion to stop the Kuwaitis from Slant Drilling into the Iraqis Oil Fields we conducted LRS-D into Iraq, during the First Gulf War. At the very end of the First Gulf War we knew that some of the Iraqis Chemical Weapons from the Iran Iraq Wars were destroyed by General Schwarzkopf's Combat Engineers at the Iraqis Munitions Storage Facility Northwest of Basra (we showed them after the Iran Iraq Wars how to properly store the Chemical Weapons), General Swartzkoff Ordered his Combat Engineers NOT to conduct a Standard Operating Procedure (SOP) Site Survey (inventory of what will be blown up), the Result the explosions caused the Chemical Weapons Agents to be thrown thousands of feet into the air, with the 1st and 2nd US Army Cavalry that were down wind getting hit by Chemical Agents (later Veteran's Affairs Claims, and Maps).

Once again your Opinions (a personal view, attitude, or appraisal without knowledge, thought, or reason.) instead of my firsthand experience Facts (Experience or Observations).

By the way a small detail from only participants, afterwards as a "Reward" I got to work on (writing) Redacted, instead of getting my arse shot at during the other US Military Asymmetric Warfare (aka Special Warfare) Missions and United Nation's Missions.

RalphH: We disagree on many issues.

But on david I agree with you!

Many like I feel, he is mentally unsound or on cheap payroll of some.

Such people hurt even Jewish causes and they are enemy within.

As I am ignoring david's comments and feel that it is waste of time responding to his nonsense, please go on replies point-by-point as you have done!

This was not a war as I would define. This was a tantrum by political creatures who had no real military goal except a kind of esoteric set an example of what happens if someone dares to attack America. Sure, it ultimately yielded the intelligence leading to Osama, but that wasn't really a "war" action. A proper War action with a capitol W would have been to move everyone in the country into a small section fenced in and then randomly redistribute the women and children back into villages. Let the women rule the country for a decade and send supplies to the men in "time out". The children will grow to be the next generation and work the farms and continue to support their elders in "time out". After 20 years let the oldest of them begin to trickle back to their decedents. Never more than a few into each village. After 30 years, the youngest of the men in the "time out" camp will be in their 40s and will have little in common with the country they knew. Most of the outrageous tribal customs and feuds will be gone, it will probably still be a Muslim culture but more in line with its teachings in stead of all the superstitions and legacy junk. Over another decade slowly let them return to their children and grand children's homes.

*That* might un-frack the "country". Otherwise your just an idiot ignoring history.

Jonathan-1982062,

Dispute the Facts, Fundamentalist Islamic Jonathan-1982062, instead of your and Fundamentalist Islamic RalphH Adolescent name-calling and Taqiya (Lies to Advance Fundamentalist Islam).

Most Educated US Citizens know the Facts:

j.agdersmith - His (Fundamentalist Islamic Osama Bin Laden) justification for waging a gorilla guerilla war against the US was spurred by a much simpler act; chiefly, his view that the US had no business being in Saudi Arabia.

POTUS George Bush and the UK turned the Afghanistan 'Nation Building' over to the UN and 52+other countries DEC 2001...

It was Obama 2008 @ the UN where he declared Afghanistan a 'Just War.' He then Doubled and DOUBLED again the US Troop levels and placed his 'Hand Picked' General in charge...

NOW 4+years later Obama's actions has killed TWICE the number of US Troops, in half the time, as Bush did. Has spend Trillions of USD and committed the US to several more years...

His ONE Accomplishment - ASSASSINATING OBL - now the World has MULTIBLE independent terrorist Leaders to deal with. This was the reason that BOTH Clinton & Bush refused to KILL OBL...

BTY - The UN during 2001 stated that the Talaban (1994–2001) was winning the 'Drug War' in Afghanistan. The reason — an edict from the ruling Islamic fundamentalist Taliban ordering an end to opium growing. The 2001 poppy harvest was 90% LOWER than the previous year...

The roots of Afghanistan's upsurge in drug production since 2001 are directly related to U.N. policies and the government that was installed in the wake of the invasion. The United States attacked Afghanistan in 2001, in alliance with anti-Taliban warlords and drug lords, showering them with millions of dollars and other forms of support. The empowerment and enrichment of the warlords with whom the U.S. allied itself enabled them to tax and protect opium traffickers, leading to the quick resumption of opium production after the hiatus of the 2000 Taliban ban...

David - Your list of terrorist organizations is a joke. First of all, al-Qaeda was separate from all those you posted. Second, many of the terrorist organizations on the State Dept list are only put there because of pressure from Jewish groups.

You have never once answered my repeated requests for comments on the TAPI gas pipeline, to transport Israeli owned gas from Turkmenisan to India.

In my opinion, you are the biggest phoney ever to hit these forums. You are a Zionist /neoconservative propagandist, posing as some kind of war hero. A true hero and leader, wouldn't be posting all the bluster which we have seen from you. It appears you pull your facts out of your arse.

9/11 was an inside job. NORAD was running at least 3 different exercises on that day, Operation, Vigilant Warrior, Operation Northern Vigil and Operation Guardian Vigil. They couldn't stop the attack on the Pentagon, which occurred over 50 minutes after the WTCs were hit. WOW. After the hit, no traces of suitcases, people engines or anything was found at the site. I guess it all disintegrated.

Hey David, what do you think happened to the 2.3 trillion dollars, which Rumsfeld reported missing from the Pentagon on Sept 10? Dov Zakheim was the Comptroller. Do you think it went to Israel? He is an Israeli citizen. Was there an investigation? 2.3 trillion is a lot of money, one would think an intensive investigagtion would follow Rumsfeld's announcement. Its on UTube, David. How about some comments. Is the topic of a missing 2.3 trillion dollars , too trivial for you to comment?

David I don't care what clintons role is in this as no ridiculous war was waged while he was in office. Why is that btw? If he was so adamant like you say why didn't he begin deploying troops etc and wage war? It is because politicians use scare tactics not only with us but also with the enemies. Walk softly and carry a big stick right? Who cares about scare tactics. Scare tactics don't cost 14 trillion in an economic recession. Also My facts were wrong before i must state that the total unaccounted for money was 10 billion not million. Even more than i previously stated. I believe 9/11 was an inside job false flag operation. Don't believe me? Look at youtube videos of the pentagon imploding from the inside in the area where financial records of the war and other military spending was... Oddly enough the bush administration was supposed to have a conference with congress about discrepancies in spending around the time 9/11 occurred. Clearly a plane did not hit that building or at least didn't cause the initial explosion. this can be done simply by YOU DOING YOUR OWN homework like you said i needed to do mine. You can also do research about how the towers fell etc and how only an inside explosion would have done such drastic damage but lets not even go there. I also know many people that served in the first and second gulf wars and can tell some stories about what REALLY happened over there. As for me i would never sign up for the military as i don't appreciate being a pawn for our govt to wage wars for corporate interests. Also why do you conservatives always say the govt lies cheats and steals from us but fully support military efforts? Do you have a predisposition for wanting to kill the brown skin people? You don't think they lie to us about why we go to wars? You trust our govt for one thing but not the other and i mean REALLY support enough to give your life? Don't expect me to be proud of our military efforts or kiss your or anyone elses ass for serving. You signed up no one made you.

Afghanistan, the worst written English paper to date. It had a goal before the pencil got put down, 45 minutes in with the Taliban out of national control and no real ending the paper just sits there and turns into a rabble of stagnant time till finally the writer realized he needed to find the goal again, can't rewrite that story so the goal is now nation building except that it was always nation building (so the author swears). And Just like Vietnam, soldiers are unappreciated and spit on for giving their lives, and the Government throws money at a problem that no amount of money could overcome.

Mission success right there.

Did I mention there are Lithium deposits that just kinda popped in the middle of the mess?

I got your back sir, I know your 20th birthday is coming up soon. The big two decades. We're the same age so why do I call you sir you may ask. You're taking a beating no kid should, you get that respect the second you signed that contract. It's the very least anyone can do.

If you don't know who your friends and enemies are, especially, during wars, worst defeats are given.

Pakis, strategic allies, have backstabbed big time in Afghanistan. They are responsible for half of NATO forces deaths!

Still, the Western diplomat said, "We’ve opened a door in Doha, and hopefully there will be an answer and real negotiations might begin."

Some calling themselves as Taliban are talking to these dumb diplomats and that too in Qatar, a Saudi Arabia and Paki pal!

So even after leaving Afghanistan, it will be continuous drain of tax monies for helping "friendly" Taliban and reconstruction in Afghanistan and "pay back" to Pakistan!

We should not have gone to wars in Afghanistan and Iraq in 2003 in the first place.

Only idiots will go to wars at the same time in the toughest battle zones in the world.

Dumbest will have still have Saudis and Pakis as strategic allies in these wars despite their major roles in 9/11.

Some never learn.

We are withdrawing/running from Afghanistan only to get busy in Syria and Iran!

Oil price manipulations from $40 in 2009 to more than $110 by sanctions on Iranian oil for some Iranian nukes (Pakis have them and Saddam did not have them has already started.

We go bankrupt and make oil rich Sunni bigoted ruling monsters, oil companies, lobbyists, arms industry and some politicians richer and richer!

You don't think there are any kick back or commissions being secretly paid? Do you, wink, wink?

Let's not forget that the soviets had the US finance and arm the Taliban (using Pakistan as a proxy). On the other hand the US has the cooperation of Pakistan (ostensibly).

The U.S., frightened by the thought of Communist control of oil and strategic placement in the Middle East, provided Afghan soldiers with Pakistani-supplied, soviet-made weapons. The U.S. also provided Afghan fighters with guerrilla tactics to combat the Soviet incursion. After aiding Afghanistan during Russia's attack, the U.S. was called upon to help instill a Democratic structure for the Afghan people - whom were gratefully indebted to us at the time. Among the potential leaders seeking U.S. approval - Osama Bin Laden. Yup. We backed one of his opponents. The U.S. neglected to support the nation after Soviet withdrawal - due, in large part, to the warring factions inability to coexist and continued civil unrest that eventually gave birth to what is now the Taliban and Al Queida. The lack of U.S. support for his leadership is also where the Anti-American sentiment comes from.

Books are good.

I'm no expert but I have a little insight to your question. Your right the Russian's were brutal they didn't believe in collateral damage did not have a word for it! As one there departing gifts left a lot of land minds over there were unexploded still causing havoc some of the ones that have not exploded and been dug and found insurgents are using them against the Afghan people ISAF/CF forces. We can play the what if scenarios all day maybe it should have never been a NATO mission in the first place way too much ROE!!! in the first place, shouldn't have gotten bog downed with nation building! If grunts 11B/0311's could fight the Taliban/insurgents the way they wanted all the time don't think it would have lasted this long good idea would have maybe a partial black out SO there couldn't be any biased reporting but I don't think people would be able to stomach the methods and the means but the results could have justified them. With our technology and logistical might one scenario could be this summed up in this statement! U.S. conducts Combat ops in Afghanistan to crush Taliban insurgency reports say U.S. is using French strategy/tactic's used to crush the Insurgency in Algeria in the 50's in cities like Kandahar and Kabul, in other area's combination of Russian/Israeli methods have met with positive results.

Baylor14, I dont think so. The area with the highest concentration of our military plus most of the British is/was in Helmand, which was perhaps the most pro-American region of the country before our occupation. It remains the center of the resistance but with different tactics...over to the roadside bombs and a waiting game. Between 1946-79 we helped build the largest irrigation system in the country with some of the most productive cash cropping double cropping farmers in the country that presently produce some 30-40% of the world's opium. With that irrigation system we also helped with the settlement of some 10,000+ landless farmers and sheep herding nomads trained and supported with an extension service...long gone. Rather than support these farmers in getting again out of opium, and supporting their traditional cash crops with a credit system and international markets for their crops like cotton, we installed a corrupt government and police force and looked the other way when it came to poppy. In an initial reconstruction effort in 02, we cut opium production by 85% in Nad-i-Ali, an area of some 30,000+ acres of irrigated land, through a lot of talk, promises of continued support for legitimate crops, which we did not do, and putting several thousand men to work on their own irrigation system with shovels at some $1.75 a day. There were few US troops there at the time and virtually no violence. I frequently traveled in the area without guards in a regular car, not bomb proof humvs. All done with the not yet corrupt local government and police doing most of the talking and promising...to be let down with a cut in funding before the following poppy planting season when poppies returned big time.

I have to disagree with you on punishment from Russia. First the weapons at the time were much different as was the way the war was waged. We have eliminated many more leaders of the Taliban and other terror organizations then ever before. Those are facts that can not be disputed. Now the truth is that a country that is and by what I can see has always been controlled by people that make Honey Boo Boo look like Albert Einstein. This place is Tribal pure and simple. In the beginning I agreed that the invasion was a good thing but after 5 to 6 years we should have been gone. Let the inmates run the prison. I could care less about their women's rights or if they kill each other for something to do that is not my concern. Nation building can be a good thing (Japan and Germany are wonderful examples) but you also have to have people that want that for their country and a better life for all. These folks are so back wooded that the people in Appalachia look like they live in Hollywood they would rather live in a cave and keep women dumber than a stump. Who cares it is their country. Just let it be know to the Taliban and others that if you step outside those boundries and any attack anything American be it anywhere and we can trace it back to you we are going to turn this place into a bigger waste land then it already is. They already know we can reach them just about anyplace any time. Pull the troops now and tell Ali Baba and his merry band of goofs you are on your own.

Macdeezy-2292705 - I have one question about Afghanistan that no military expert can give a truthful answer: If the USSR couldn't force Afghanistan to its knees after 10 years by warfare of annihilation, then how can the USA

DocC-2499817 - I have to disagree with you on punishment from Russia. First the weapons at the time were much different as was the way the war was waged.

You and the US Politicians DO NOT Listen to Military Experts (Definition Fact - Experience or Observations).

During Operation Cyclone, the USSR 40th Army Occupation was conducting USSR Total Conventional Warfare including Carpet Bombing, Millions of Area Denial Weapons (Landmines), Chemical Warfare (Agent Purple, Mustard Gas, Poisoning of Water Wells, etc.), Tanks leveling whole towns and villages, etc..

The US Military attached to the CIA's SAD/SOG vetted, trained then lead the 1980s Pro US Afghan Muhajeen into combat against the USSR 40th Army Occupation using Asymmetric Warfare.

In October 2001 US Military Asymmetric Warfare Forces (aka Special Warfare) Attached to the CIA's SAD/SOG went into Afghanistan after the 9/11 2001 Attacks to Overthrow the Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban Government, Eliminate the Al Quada, and Holy Warriors of Islam Training Camps that Sponsored the 9/11 2001 Attacks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arxKhJIjIiY

Go ahead and call Vice President Biden a Liar (by the way before the movie comes out, the "Angel of Death" was a US Military woman (successfull precision airstrikes against the Taliban):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmiyyLNogaY

Two hundred US Army Special Forces (Asymmetric Warfare Insurgency) attached to the CIA's SAD/SOG only less than 50% are still alive. Of the other US Military Asymmetric Warfare Forces (not mentioned in the books or future movies) almost a hundred, less than 25% are still alive.

After being successful, the US Military Asymmetric Warfare Forces attached to the CIA's SAD/SOG pursued the hundreds of thousands of Taliban, Al Quada, Islamic Jihadists along the Old Silk Road killing them without hesitation and with extreme prejudice. We were told to stop as not to violate the Soverign Nations of Iran and Iraq. Some fled to Pakistan.

In 2001 we conducted Operation Viking Hammer, the elimination of the Taliban, Al Quada, Islamic Jihadists that escaped us from Afghanistan. They had combined with the Kurdistanis PKK, HPG, KGK and became Ansar Al Islam. Before we could eliminate them the Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran gave them Islamic Sanctuary.

Being a United Nation's Mission, NATO F**ked up and appointed Gentleman British General McColl as the Commander ISAF, he did nothing to stop the hundreds of thousands of Al Quada, Taliban, Islamic Jihadists from returning to Afghanistan thru Iran, nor from returning from Pakistan. The British Conventional Warfare Academic Idealism of "Fair Fight" (you let your enemy gather and meet at the designated battlefield at the negotiated time and date).

Of the almost thousand of us that started as the US Military Training Teams to US Ally Iraq during the Iran Iraq Wars, rotated to Operation Cyclone, and everything in between till now; there are only a few dozen of us left.

Does that answer your question, Macdeezy-2292705.

DocC-2499817 - by what I can see has always been controlled by people that make Honey Boo Boo look like Albert Einstein.

Proof you have never been here and did not "see" anything for yourself. US Ally Afghanistan was built up to a 20th Century Nation by the US from the 1950s till the 1979 USSR 40th Army Occupation.

Richard Scott,

Thanks for actually stating the facts. You did not mention the hydroelectric (dams). That "30-40% of the world's opium" was started by the "Hippies" that created Communes at "Little America" US Ally Afghanistan. Today most of the Opium is for the high demand Chinese Drug Trade (Chinese Organized Crime) and the Russian Federation's Russian Mob. Most of what gets to the US is from South and Central Americas via Mexico.

DocC-2499817 - These folks are so back wooded that the people in Appalachia look like they live in Hollywood they would rather live in a cave and keep women dumber than a stump.

Again bullsh!t opinons that someone reguritated into your mouth. Garbage In Garbage Out.

http://www.bing.com/images/results.aspx?q=kabul&form=MSNH14#view=detail&id=A068360C32C17DE72E64928568C2DDDE73C279BD&selectedIndex=33

YOU WANT FACTS AS TO WHY WE HAVE LOST US ALLY AFGHANISTAN:

President Obama's Failed Foreign Policies:

1. The US lost the US Military Logistics Support Bases at Pakistan required to support the United Nation's Mission to LANDLOCKED US Ally Afghanistan.

The Unsupported UN, US, NATO Military Forces MUST abandon US Ally Afghanistan by 2014 to get massacred again by the Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban like after the US Abandoned US Ally Afghanistan after Operation Cyclone, with the 1990s Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban masscring our US Ally the 1980s Pro US Afghan Muhajeen, then massacring any suspected Collaborators to the Christians, Jews, Unbelievers (large number of the Afghan Civilian population), destroying anything "Western", "Modern", "Non Islamic"; with the Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban fully supported by the USSR Backed Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran.
Historically, the British during the British Empire Era, knew that any "British Adventures" to Afghanistan required the Pakistanis Sea Ports, Logistics Bases, the Khyber Pass, etc..

During Operation Cyclone we continually had the 1980s Pro US Afghan Muhajeen attacking the USSR Supply Convoys (MSR 1, Pakistan), and taking anything they could (USSR Weapons, Ammunition, Food, Military Equipment, Medical Supplies, etc.). The USSR then attempted to create another route and then we still attacked those USSR Supply Convoys (MSR 2, Takijistan). Same crap that is being done here today.

Note: USSR Poisoning things like the food and medical supplies that might be captured did not work either, just pissed everyone off as Chemical Warfare, so we used their USSR poison to poison the Afghan interconnected water wells "upstream" from the USSR Bases water wells, wiping out whole Platoons to Companies of USSR.

2. April 2009 President Obama as Commander In Chief Ordered the US Military Budget Cuts while the US Military was in Two Wars (Iraq and Afghanistan) and President Obama's Secret Wars. The US Military lost funding for Maintenance of Aircraft, Weapons Systems, Ships, Submarines, Vehicles, Facilities, etc.; US Military lost Funding for Sustainment of Ammunition, Fuel, Food, Water, etc.; US Military lost Funding for Training. US Lost 95,000 US Civilian Jobs F-22, the Democratic Party Controlled US Congress insists that the USAF Buy more F-22s, as the US Civilian Jobs are mostly at Democratic Party Controlled States; the US will lose hundreds of thousands of US Labor Union Jobs that repair and maintain one USN Aircraft Carrier Strike Group, the US Labor Union Workers at Newport News Virginia threaten to drive down and Strike on the Steps of the White House, President Obama in his State of the Union Address lied to the US Labor Union Workers saying that he will not decrease the numbers of USN Aircraft Carrier Strike Groups from 11 to 10, as he does not tell them that the USN CVN-65 will be decommissioned and scraped after the last deployment of December 2012, it will be 12 years before CVN-80 replaces CVN-65, so the number is 11-1 = 10. President Obama lied again, saying that the Newport News Virginia US Labor Union Jobs Cuts was due to his Across the Board Budget Cuts (Automatic Sequestration) as he proposed in July 2011, and attempts to blame this on US Congress (just the Repugnant Party Controlled US House of Representatives, and not the Demoncraptic Party Controlled US Senate).

3. Previously, President Bush (43) tasked General McKiernan Commander ISAF to develop a War Plan for the United Nation's Mission to win at Afghanistan. General McKiernan develops his War Plan to Win Afghanistan. Candidate Obama becomes US President and US Military Commander In Chief. General McKiernan requests from President Obama 90,000 US Military as the minimum number required for success. President Obama refuses General McKiernan's request. President Obama starts telling US Congress "Anything they need to win Afghanistan they will get", "Iraq was the Wrong War Afghanistan is the Right War". General McKiernan attempts to warn the US Public in an interview with Katie Couric of CBS News. President Obama demands General McKiernan's Letter of Resignation. President Obama grabbed General McKiernan's War Plan to Win Afghanistan and calls this his Obama War Plan to Win Afghanistan.

4. General McKiernan is replaced by President Obama's Registered Democrat General McChrystal. President Obama demands that General McChrystal implement the Obama War Plan to Win Afghanistan. To the US Public President Obama is saying "Anything he (General McChrystal) needs he will get", "Iraq was the Wrong War Afghanistan is the Right War". What President Obama did not know since he had no US Military Experience nor Training is that the General McKiernan War Plan to Win Afghanistan is useless without General McKiernan's Commander's Intent, making the President Obama War Plan to Win Afghanistan useless also. General McChrystal requests the minimum number of US Military required for success of 90,000 US Military Forces; President Obama refuses and sent 1/3rd, 30,000 US Military (Combatants). To make matters worse President Obama sent almost a hundred thousand US Civilians that required US Military for Security (Guard Duty) during his 2009 US Civilian Surges to Iraq and Afghanistan. The Result, the President Obama War Plan to Win Afghanistan failed miserably resulting in the unnecessary Deaths of many US Military Forces and Canadian Military Forces. The President Obama Political Appointee US Civilians on General McChrystal's High Level Staff after witnessing the large numbers of flag drapped coffins loaded unto aircraft start saying, "This Administration Does Not Know What It Is Doing". President Obama starts playing his typical blame game and blames this on General McChrystal. Later on after General McChrystal goes public attempting to tell the US Public what happened, President Obama demands General McChrystal's Letter of Resignation. Being a loyal Democrat General McChrystal accepted President Obama's deal to retire as a Four Star General instead of a Three Star Lieutenant General, and does not demand a Public US Congressional Hearing that would have made public "This Administration Does Not Know What It Is Doing" destroying President Obama's Political Career.

It is the Duty of a US Military Officer as the Representative of the US Citizens of the US Military to inform the US Public of those matters that will result in the Unnecessary Deaths of US Citizens of the US Military after the US Politicians refuse to listen; this is NOT "Insubordination" like all the President Obama monkeys jumping up and down screaming "Insubordination", "Traitor", etc. pertaining to President Obama's appointed Registered Democrat General McChrystal, this is why President Obama did NOT have a legal leg to stand on and had to make a deal with General McChrystal to get his Letter of Resignation.

5. Since President Obama's 2009 US Civilians Surges there have been hundreds of Lawyers sent to prosecute (not defend) US Military for violations of President Obama's US Civilian Law Enforcement Rules of Engagement, Cannot shoot until shot, imposed on the US Military Forces. When President Obama's hundreds (nearly a thousand now) attempted to prosecute the Deutsche Bundeswehr Commandos for calling in an Airstrike on a Fuel Tanker Hijacked by the Taliban, Chancellor Merkel threaten to remove all German Military Forces from Afghanistan and no Future Support of any United Nation's Mission involving the US, President Obama orders the US Lawyers to not prosecute the German Military Special Forces.

6. President Obama without any Military Experience nor Training attempts to micromanage the Wars. The Commanding Officers are starting to wonder why they even need to be at Iraq or Afghanistan; other than being President Obama's Politically Expedient Scapegoats.

7. Afghanistan is an Asymmetric War, NOT a Conventional War. US Politicians do not grasp the concepts of an Asymmetric War (not a new idea, after the first individual with no uniform nor formal military training shot the first British Military from behind a wall, in a ditch, behind a tree). US Politicians do not like Asymmetric Warfare (required retentions of US Military for Decades for Training and to develop expertise), unlike the expensive Conventional Warfare US Military Equipment manufactured in their States (US Civilian Jobs), that requires minimal US Military Training and retentions.

8. Identical to Vietnam, the US Military Won the Battles, the US Policitians lose the War.

TO: Macdeezy-2292705 who wrote:

"I have one question about Afghanistan that no military expert can give a truthful answer: If the USSR couldn't force Afghanistan to its knees after 10 years by warfare of annihilation, then how can the USA succeed when we follow "rules of engagement"? The Soviet military punished Afghanistan a 1000 times worse than we have, and what did it accomplish? Easy solution: leave."

I think that George "Curveball" Bush really just "used" Afghanistan as a staging area to invade Iraq, where all the oil is.

I bet not one person read your long-winded post. If you can't make a point with a paragraph or two, you never will.

charleynash1963 - I bet not one person read your long-winded post. If you can't make a point with a paragraph or two, you never will.

Typical Adolescent Post charleynash1963 with no Facts to add to the Adult Discussion of Newsvine's "Get Smarter Here".

And just like an Adolescent butting into the Discussion between Adults.

david-475776 Does that answer your question, Macdeezy-2292705

NO, It made no sense whatsoever. And the fact that you paste it multiple times on other people's posts makes me think your desperate for attention. Paraphrasing is a skill you should practice.

Agreed, why even talk to a country that treats people, especially it's women, so terribly. Well, for one, we just can't stand to be very far away from the oil money and Russia. The other reaon is-Heroin! Our troops will come across a pot field there and burn it down. What do we do with poppy fields? Why we cut it down, bundle it up, and haul it away for "evidence". Funny how no one mentions this activity. Why? Because big Pharma needs cheap Morphine and it is the cash cow there. We just can't stand to not have a piece of all the greed. All the other stuff is propaganda.

Not sure if S Hole is even a good use of the word. At least a S Hole can be used to fertilize something

A perfect example of why you don't start a conflict with no idea how to end it. I have to laugh when so many simply think you pack up and go home. So once again we have the US military cutting and running? It's not that easy. So when you really need a defense in the area no one will trust us ever again.

That is the problem....Bush and Cheney were going to spread some good ol' american "democracy". Same as what was tried in Iraq, and years before in Vietnam. Doesn't anyone want to learn from history?

You can't change people unless they are willing to change. America should never interfere in other country's affairs. History proves IT DOESN'T WORK.

Leo the Builder,

Iraq was not started by President Bush (43) go read my post collapsed by the Fascist* Democrats at #1.6,

with the supporting Documented Historical links at post#1.30.

*Dictionary Definition Fascism - dictatorial movement: any movement, ideology, or attitude that favors dictatorial government, centralized control of private enterprise, repression of all opposition and criticism, and extreme nationalism

I mentioned why we opposed President Clinton's US Policy of the Overthrow of President Hussein at post#1.51.

After decades of doing this kind of stuff the few of us survivors do honestly like to know exactly what we may get killed for, or if things are actually "Legal" so that we do not end up like "Just Following Orders" Lieutenant Calley (Vietnam) or Colonel Oliver North (attempts to arm the Ex Iranian Pro Shah of Iranians to Overthrow the Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran's Government).

For Mission planning purposes we must know all the details, every fact, that might be used for our advantage.

Darren Dickerson - There's a reason they call it The Graveyard of Empires...

There you go someone else's Opinion, not a Fact.

1. After Operation Cyclone we (US) won Afghanistan by defeating the USSR 40th Army. Instead of helping the 1980s Pro US Afghan Muhajeen rebuild 20th Century Afghanistan, US Congress demanded we abandon US Ally Afghanistan.

The 1990s Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban fully supported by the USSR Backed Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran come into Afghanistan and massacred the 1980s Pro US Afghan Muhajeen that were no longer supported by anyone.

Democratic Party Senator Charles Wilson's, "We F**ked up the End Game".

2. Again In October 2001 US Military Asymmetric Warfare Forces (aka Special Warfare) Attached to the CIA's SAD/SOG went into Afghanistan after the 9/11 2001 Attacks to Overthrow the Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban Government, Eliminate the Al Quada, and Holy Warriors of Islam Training Camps that Sponsored the 9/11 2001 Attacks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arxKhJIjIiY

Go ahead and call Vice President Biden a Liar (by the way before the movie comes out, the "Angel of Death" was a US Military woman (successfull precision airstrikes against the Taliban):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmiyyLNogaY

Two hundred US Army Special Forces (Asymmetric Warfare Insurgency) attached to the CIA's SAD/SOG only less than 50% are still alive. Of the other US Military Asymmetric Warfare Forces (not mentioned in the books or future movies) almost a hundred, less than 25% are still alive.

After being successful, the US Military Asymmetric Warfare Forces attached to the CIA's SAD/SOG pursued the hundreds of thousands of Taliban, Al Quada, Islamic Jihadists along the Old Silk Road killing them without hesitation and with extreme prejudice. We were told to stop as not to violate the Soverign Nations of Iran and Iraq. Some fled to Pakistan.

In 2001 we conducted Operation Viking Hammer, the elimination of the Taliban, Al Quada, Islamic Jihadists that escaped us from Afghanistan. They had combined with the Kurdistanis PKK, HPG, KGK and became Ansar Al Islam. Before we could eliminate them the Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran gave them Islamic Sanctuary.

Being a United Nation's Mission, NATO F**ked up and appointed Gentleman British General McColl as the Commander ISAF, he did nothing to stop the hundreds of thousands of Al Quada, Taliban, Islamic Jihadists from returning to Afghanistan thru Iran, nor from returning from Pakistan. The British Conventional Warfare Academic Idealism of "Fair Fight" (you let your enemy gather and meet at the designated battlefield at the negotiated time and date).

Of the almost thousand of us that started as the US Military Training Teams to US Ally Iraq during the Iran Iraq Wars, rotated to Operation Cyclone, and everything in between till now; there are only a few dozen of us left.

3. (3rd attempt after we abandon US Ally Afghanistan again 2014, except there will be even less Pro US Afghans after the Taliban get finished massacring them) Will be your turn, to win Afghanistan. Then have your win, with many of your friends made in combat lives lost, turned into a loss by the US Politicians, most of us are too old for this crap anymore.

Alexander the Great, the British, the Soviets, now us. Those aren't figments of our imaginations. And what the hell is your point? Paraphrase it, if you can.

Genghis Khan conquered this region and spread his Empire from the English Channel, into North Africa, to the eastern shore of the Chinese controlled areas and down to Siam. He drove the Muslims back to Iran & Iraq and his empire lasted over 1.5+Century...

He had a very simple battle plan:

1. Kill ALL the Politicians and burn their seats of power to the ground...

2. Let his Troops establish family ties and gain new brides...

3. Any population that did not fall-in-line had their wells poisoned and fields salted...

One Muslim Leader that violated a treaty, had his hometown wiped off the face on the Earth. Khan had a river rerouted...

ANYTHING less than this will not be effective, as the UK, USA & USSR have found-out...

Letusreason

How can this be? We have a strategy genius of a President who has been showing us the way for 4 years.

Must be biased reporting.

I guess that would mean over 6 years of it was under GW...now wouldn't it?

A person would think people should learn from others mistakes

This war is the product of the mindset of this country. The USA is a warrior nation. If Obama didn't have that mindset as well, he couldn't survive in politics. Doesn't matter if the US wins or loses, as long as it puts on a good show, that's good enough.

crabdusty -- that's what you get for thinking.

letusreason - what a tired comment

We're not a warrior nation. Public sentiment was very much against our involvement in WWI, until the Lusitania incident (which was almost certainly a false flag). Also the public was against direct involvement in WWII until Pearl Harbor (not a false flag exactly, but it was definitely allowed-to-happen-on-purpose).

I'm not saying anything about 9/11 here. I'm just trying to point out that America has traditionally been an isolationist country, not a war-hungry country.

The Afhan war is a product of the military-industrial complex. Why do you think we're still there, 11 years later, when nothing has changed besides a few token heads of command? Follow the money.

Really Bob. Don't jump from WW2 to now without counting -- Korea, Vietnam, Lebanon, Gulf war. I left several out. Not to mention the US bases all over the world, as in, in countries that don't want them there.

the american taxpayer has swallowed the idea that the us is safe only by maintaining a fighting force capable of repelling any offense / attack against the united states. we have then to consider that the only countries equally capable have not shown any signs of wanting a military confrontation. all of the expensive state of the art weapons are useless against a country with no uniformed standing army capable of battlefield conflict. we have not had an enemy attack us since ww 2 that required our military build up. vietnam was jungle war fair and we did not win even with the massive amounts of weapons and men because we were not fighting an enemy we could even locate. we are now faced with ending the armed forces as we know it and admit that what we have is the equivalent of the ''job core''. we provide instant employment for many who could not otherwise find employment. we can not continue to spend this exorbitant amount of money on weapons. we are crumbling from within from lack of investment in infrastructure / social programs / health care. lets take a lesson from countries that invest little in weapons and provide health / education and welfare to their citizens. if you use this as a criteria then you would admit that life is better in many other countries for the average family.

bob douglas-1120933

I'm not saying anything about 9/11 here. I'm just trying to point out that America has traditionally been an isolationist country, not a war-hungry country.

Really Bob? ...or do we want to believe we're not war-hungry? We seem to manage to "find" a war about every 20 years or so. When was the last war the Swedes or Swiss fought?

sabine-3408377 - letusreason - what a tired comment

Iraq was not started by President Bush (43) go read my post collapsed by the Fascist* Democrats at #1.6,

with the supporting Documented Historical links at post#1.30.

*Dictionary Definition Fascism - dictatorial movement: any movement, ideology, or attitude that favors dictatorial government, centralized control of private enterprise, repression of all opposition and criticism, and extreme nationalism

I mentioned why we opposed President Clinton's US Policy of the Overthrow of President Hussein at post#1.51.

Why we must leave Afghanistan at post#4.6.

Post#7.1 how many times we won Afghanistan. And what will happen in the future post#7.1 paragraph #3.

bob douglas-1120933 - Also the public was against direct involvement in WWII until Pearl Harbor (not a false flag exactly, but it was definitely allowed-to-happen-on-purpose).

After the Declassification of the US War Department Documents the following Books as References (including references and excerpts within the books to the actual Declassified US War Department Documents) that later lead to the US Congressional Exonerations of all Blame for the Commanders at Pearl Harbor and Oahu Territory of Hawai'i, Admiral Kimmel and General Short:

At Dawn We Slept: The Untold Story of Pearl Harbor by Gordon W. Prange, Donald M. Goldstein and Katherine V. Dillon (Dec 1, 1991)

Day Of Deceit: The Truth About FDR and Pearl Harbor by Robert Stinnett (May 8, 2001)

These books also include the previous attempts by President FDR to get the Isolationist US into WWII, as then Prime Minister Winston Churchill stated, "Or England Will Fall" (after Dunkirk, and learning of German Operation Sea Lion (German Invasion of England), also based on Declassified US War Department Documents and the US Department of State Archives of US Ambassador Kennedy that lead to the exoneration of a USN Sailor that worked for US Ambassador Kennedy encrypting and decrypting diplomatic messages at England that was imprisoned since before WWII till 1990, after he attempted to warn US Congress of President FDR's intentions to get the US into War with something "Infamous". Also these books explain in detail the conditions at the US years prior to US entry into WWII and what the US was doing to attempt to get the Japanese to attack the US (that most of the US Public of that time ignored, as minor International incidents. US Gunboats shooting at Japanese Destroyers going to and from China with .50 caliber machineguns in failed attempts to get the Japanese to sink the US Gunboats. When the Japanese did sink the USS Panay, most US Citizens wondered what the USN was doing at China, as most US interests had already long left China. The US Politicians attempted to make this another "Remember the Maine" to get the US into WWII. Most of the US Citizens did not buy off on the US Politicians reasons (later proven wrong).).

In my post at #1.6, I stated how what lead to and caused the 9/11 2001 Attacks.

Ol_Doc - Really Bob? ...or do we want to believe we're not war-hungry? We seem to manage to "find" a war about every 20 years or so

That I have to agree with. As even during the "Peacetime" US Military, the few of us as the US Military Training Teams to US Ally Iraq during the Iran Iraq Wars, rotated to Operation Cyclone. The United Nation's Missions like Operation Continue Hope, aka the Battle for Mogadishu. So after we returned back to our "Peacetime" US Military, we got really strange looks from the "Peacetime" 06:00 hours to 17:00 hours US Military because we had Combat Service related Awards, Decorations, Medals, etc..

And most think that the Taliban were against education. The Minister at the time was begging for help with support of the educational system for which he had no funds. The Swedish Committee had a primary school program in Ghazni province at the time with more than 100 schools, including girls schools. An Afghan-American doctor built and supported a primary school in Helmand, actually in the same district from which the Minister was from and had gotten his education in a school system that we had supported in the 50's-70's. While kids in school has exploded under our occupation, with us plowing millions into the system, we did nothing at the time of the Taliban. The school closings by Taliban action over the past 10+ years relates to their symbolism of our support of the present government. Something the media has not noted. and on and on...

Unfortunately, there's still freedom for the Taliban to kill those exercising their freedom of speech.

We'll see how long that lasts when the last US Troops leave.

It won't change is we leave 20 years from now either.

R. Scalzo

Sure it would...a lot more dead Americans and Afghans.

Just got done reading "The Forgotten 500" about airmen shot down/bailed out over Yugoslavia. I used to admire Churchill but this story sheds a whole new light on him for me. Started a "Question of Honor" about the Polish aviators in WWII and it doesn't paint him in a very good light either. I realize one should not take everything you read as Gospel, but it does make you think.

Let's face it. Our Arms companies and contractors make billions from these wars. Many of our politicians get's funds from them on running for Congress. Other politicians becomes lobbyist for them. We destroyed Iraq arms and now our arm companies are selling them billions and billions of aircraft,radar,missiles and other arms. But I can't beef of this,

As a war vet in Vietnam during 1967. I'm finally receiving my benefit for fighting in that war. (My benefit today is driving to Walmart and buying Vietnam shirts.) It's to early, but hopefully our brave young Vets will get their benefits.(Shirts from Afghastan and Iraq at Walmart.)

It took a long time for the 9/11 high to wear off. That's what they were thinking with the support of the population. Get um and get um good. A few of us knew this would be a disaster with no resolve, but the country wanted revenge and was out for blood. Can't rewrite history just because things didn't go well. Most of the country supported the war. You were a traitor, unpatriotic, and un-American if you didn't. Now, pass that plate of freedom fries.

Then call me un-American I guess. It was never a good idea to go to war in my opinion. Not in that country. You can't really win there. The terrorists blend with the civilians. Who do you kill? Billions of dollars wasted - the corrupt higher-ups got most of it, soldiers and civilians died, the Taliban is still alive, there will be more bin Ladens, and they hate us even more now. What did this war accomplish? Not much! An option would have been to spend those billions securing the porous borders here and more, and going for sting operations in that country to get the main Taliban leaders and network as best as possible (not an easy task I agree).

There are some nice kalat's in Wardak province I think you'd fit right in!

I was thinking she could probably find a nice family to move in with in North Waziristan.

@ ol Doc I was thinking Paktika Province would be better for her so scenic this time of year!

I can imagine how one would be proud of one's own actions in Afghanistan while questioning the wisdom of the overall adventure.

I remember baby bush as the great decider deciding what is best. And Cheney creaming in his pants over the Halliburton contracts while telling us the deficit doesn't matter. But, Hollywood pinkos socialists liberals, like Ed Asner, who went on every talk show trying to warn the country not to go into the middle east, were vilified and called every name in the book. We fall for this rah rah American might crap every time. I'm still not over Vietnam.

They are proud because they were called and they did what was required of them. No one asked them to agree with what was being done and they knew that wasn't their place.

They are soldiers and not politicians. So they have every right to be proud.

LeftLeaningLisa: "I've sat at home for the last 10 years wondering"

Hmmm......Really? Been collecting that check for a while lefty? YOUR WELCOME!

Within 6 months after we leave...the executions will be back by popular demand.

Within 6 months after we leave...the executions will be back by popular demand.

Indeed; look how many Americans get positively thrilled when news of an execution breaks.

A week after we leave Karzai will take all the money he stole from us and buy a nice villa in the Bahamas, maybe one in Florida too.