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Guido Montani / EPA, file
Cardinals are preparing for the conclave that will select Pope Benedict XVI's successor. Hopefully it will go smoother than some other conclaves from centuries past.
Vatican watchers say the conclave about to be held in Rome could be one of the most contentious in years — but that's by modern standards.
Dust off the history books and go back a few hundred years and there are papal conclaves rife with international intrigue, royal rigging, even riots.
This conclave might last a couple weeks if the cardinals deadlock, but before the conclave process was instituted, papal elections could go on for months, even years.
The election that started in 1268 lasted nearly three years, ending only when the townspeople of Viterbo locked up the cardinals, tore the roof off their palace, fed them nothing but bread and water and threatened to do worse.
The pope they finally elected decided a repeat would be unwise and instituted what are now known as conclaves, with the electors kept behind closed doors until they make a decision.
That cut down on the length of the elections, but they could still be quite colorful. Here are some of the more memorable conclaves from centuries past:
Off with their hats!
For much of the 14th century, the papacy resided in France, until Pope Gregory XI decided to relocate to Rome. When he died in 1378, the mostly French cardinals repaired to the Lateran Palace to choose his replacement.
"Rioting broke out in the city," said John O'Malley, author of "A History of the Popes: From Peter to the Present." "The Romans were afraid they might elect another French pope. They broke into the conclave."
The mob made it clear they meant business, said Frederic Baumgartner, author of "Behind Locked Doors: A History of the Papal Elections." One of their slogans? "Give us a Roman pope or your heads will be as red as your hats!"
The cardinals met them halfway, picking a non-Roman but Italian archbishop whom they hoped would meekly return with them to Avignon.
Pope Urban VI "turned out to be a disaster," Baumgartner said. "He had a very violent temper."
His behavior was so strange that "the cardinals began to wonder if they had elected a sane person," O'Malley said. They hightailed it out of Rome, declared they had been bullied into picking the wrong guy, and elected a Frenchman, Clement VII.
Small problem: Urban didn't go quietly. He created a whole new set of cardinals and thus was born the Great Schism, which divided the church until the Council of Pisa in 1409. That's when the French and Roman cardinals elected a third pope to run the show.
Naturally, the other two didn't step down, so there was more than one pope for more than a decade, until one finally agreed to resign and another died.
Popes, politics and poison?
When Pope Paul III died in 1549, the rules of the conclave went out the window as King Henry II of France and Holy Roman Emperor Charles V sought to control the outcome.
Hulton Archive via Getty Images, file
Pope Julius III was elected in 1550 after a conclave that featured bribery and rumors of poisoning.
"There was a great deal of skulduggery going on," Baumgartner said.
And not a lot of secrecy. Charles V boasted in a letter that he "will know when they urinate in this conclave," Baumgartner said.
Bribes were paid and there was even some insider trading: The cardinals' attendants supposedly cut deals with Roman bankers taking bets on who would be the next pope.
After a cardinal considered a top candidate fell deathly ill and withdrew, rumors that he had been poisoned spread. One witness reported the other cardinals were "terrified" and insisted only their own aides deliver meals, according to one account.
As the weeks dragged on, the situation got so out of control —and the conclave halls so smelly — that a reform committee was convened. A set of new rules ejected many outsiders, banned clandestine meetings and confined the cardinals to their cells at night.
Finally, after 72 days and 61 ballots, Pope Julius III was elected as a compromise candidate.
All in the family
The drama of the 1559 conclave began before the cardinals were sequestered. Pope Paul IV was a despised figure — he had driven all the prostitutes out of Rome — and when he died, all hell broke loose.
"Rioters in Rome attacked the palace of the Inquisition ... and toppled the statue of the pope that stood on the Capitol," Michael Walsh wrote in "The Conclave: A Sometimes Secret and Occasionally Bloody History of Papal Elections."
Hulton Archive via Getty Images, file
Pope Pius IV was elected after a four-month conclave in 1559 to replace Paul IV, who was so disliked that Rome rioters tore down his statue.
The conclave dragged on for four months. Among the stumbling blocks: One of the cardinals refused to vote for a strong candidate on the grounds that he had a son, Baumgartner said.
With no one running the papal state, chaos threatened to break out and "an immense amount of money was spent trying to keep order in the city, and the funds began to be exhausted," O'Malley said.
Finally, the cardinals coalesced around a compromise candidate, Pope Pius IV. He had fathered at least a couple of kids, but the cardinal who had objected to the previous candidate claimed not to know it, Baumgartner said.
"That's the last pope I know of who actually had children," he said.
Battle over the ballots
When the conclave of 1914 began, Europe was embroiled in World War I, but that wasn't the source of the tension that accompanied the election of Pope Benedict XV.
Hulton Archive via Getty Images, file
Pope Benedict XV was not happy when a Spanish cardinal suggested he might have broken the rules and voted for himself.
After four days, Benedict was chosen by the smallest possible margin, a precise two-thirds vote. The rules decreed that a cardinal could not vote for himself.
Spain's Cardinal Rafael Merry del Val, who was secretary of state under the just-deceased Pius X, was apparently a stickler for the rules and he demanded the ballots be checked to make sure Benedict had not cast one for himself.
"Benedict was deeply offended," Baumgartner said.
But as the recount showed, he was the duly elected pontiff.
According to NBC News Vatican expert George Weigel, Benedict archly told Merry del Val: "The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone," quoting Psalm 118.
"Then Benedict washed him right out of the Curia," Baumgartner said.
Related:
'Jesus Christ with an MBA'? Cardinals' differing hopes for next pope
Leave a Comment:
Are they still waiting for some cardinals to arrive before they start the conclave? Where are they traveling from - the moon?
Get the show on the road already.
Obama SEQUESTERED the US Cardinals.
Why are MEXICANS held up to the world as having the most Catholics yet they are the most violent people?
Fascinating information.
Religion, what a joke! All religions speak out of both sides of their face. People are liars, crooks and murderers and preach god. Why can't people just be decent? They do not need a god for that, just common sense.
Does anyone with a brain in their head really give a @!$%# who the next grand pubah of the SuperstitiousBabyRaperClub is?!!?
I am praying they pick the worst, most self destructive person to help faciliitate the downfall of this evil organization that keeps people stupid so they can brainwash them while raping and molesting as many they can. Religion is always the problem.
Toast, Living, Elayne.... what desperate lives you must lead to make such azzanine comments. The Catholic religion does more good for people in this world than any other religion. Shameful comments... what hopeless empty lives you must lead. But then again, its an NBC site so what do you expect from a website that shows Chavez as a great leader and the Pope as a loon.... time to look in the mirror NBC posters... the problem is YOU.
Did William say sequestrated or castrated??? ;)
These are men who clearly understand the modern world.
you dont miss a post about the rcc do ya?
This is even more of a clown show than the republican presidential nomination process...and that's saying something!
More of a clown show than the government period!
When the sexual abuse claims were thought to be under control and limited to the United States, the rest of Catholics Worldwide proclaimed "It was a US thing". As the evidence arose, showing that child molestations were found to be true in other locations around the world, the Vatican created a report that proved, without a doubt, that the Catholic Church had condoned sexual child abuse for decades. So what will be the first question presented to the Cardinals at the start of the Conclave? "Will every Cardinal who has not been associated with, or had knowledge of specific cases of child molesting in their Archdiocese, please stand up?" "As you can see gentlemen, we have a problem."
Perhaps you are an ex-Catholic, I don't know, but as an ex-Catholic myself, the problem is stranger than you can imagine. These prelates are united in preserving the claim to their dwindling flock that any decision they make is Yahweh-driven. As such, there is nothing, and I repeat, nothing that a lay-Catholic can point to and say, "that's enough, I am leaving this organization" and claim moral justification from a Catholic teaching perspective. Nothing.
There is no reason to doubt that nuns found boiling babies in holy water and eating them would stop money being sent to Rome. I'm not joking.
The Catholic faith has simultaneously perfected both the absolute control of free-thought and the illusion of allowing it. It's a very difficult culture to break free from. Nominal Catholics are a gargantuan part of the problem, not the solution. They need to peacefully walk away and direct their otherwise charitable works elsewhere. There is simply no reason to expect rational change in Catholicism.
I was fairly good friends with a now dead bishop and I'll never forget his words that when it comes to any scandal imaginable, the Church has a most powerful weapon: time. Mark my words, many of these Cardinals who protected rapists will be up for sainthood in 300 years.
The concept of "sainthood" itself is a direct violation of Jesus' command to not judge other people.
Steve,
The Catholic Church claims ownership of an absolute doctrinal authority with no equal governing all humans now and forever into the future. If the Mother of God returned to Earth herself, Catholic teaching observes that she too must bend to the will of Rome. I'm not joking.
They have zero concern for your protestations. Zero.
Atheist... you mean homosexual rapists don't you. I mean that's who's actually raping the children... homosexual pedophiles. I mean you believe in mankind no and only science? So tell me Atheist, what came before the big bang? Please enlighten me... prove there is no spirit, no diety, no faith... prove it.
Penn state Pedophile, Jerry Sandusky was married since 1966. Not a homosexual but a pedophile all the same. He was a giant psyche issue and not a homosexual. Pedophile is not all about sex its probably falls along the same line as rape, since well it is rape. Why he targeted small defenseless males well we may never know but its rape against an easy target.
Sane?
You're quite mad, aren't you! HA, ha.. just joking. Ok, right. So look, I don't have beliefs or faith. I'm the kind of person who tries to evaluate situations with critical thinking and empathy. In other words I have reasonable expectations based on prior evidence or plausibility.
I don't know if the Cardinals and Pope Emeritus were homosexual, but I do know that they protected evil people under their authority and likely still do if history is any guide to human behavior. The coverup has nothing to do with sexual orientation or pedophilia. It has to do with great moral evil. Are you able to see that?
What came before the Big Bang? I'm not a physicist but my layman understanding is that such a question is possible gibberish. Perhaps you might like the book A Universe From Nothing by Lawrence Krauss? It's a layman rendition of cosmological evolution and questions about origins. Remember though, just because you can ask a question doesn't mean it's a good question. What I do know is there is certainly no evidence that Yahweh or Vishnu or Raven or Thor existed or exists. Or in the case of Raven, brought mankind into existence by opening a clamshell.
I suppose for myself, I would answer your question by saying I don't know. But there is one last thing you need to understand and it is related to my answer and your last questions. Science doesn't operate with proofs, it operates with probabilities. Give that a thought or two and you'll be on your way to becoming scientifically literate.
Appearing holy on the outside...are spiritually dead on the inside...
I'm sorry, but this article is just too funny.
Kind of like watching the old reruns of Dragnet with a serious face.
I want to wear a red beanie for a day.
Anyone remember Cecil and Beany?
Let's be clear - I mean no irreverence to the reverent, here.
I want one of those red Cardinal beanies too! They're kinda cool...
The article was in regards to the history of the papal elections. I'm not going to debate religion as so many others try to derail to. I find the history fascinating. It just proves that we are all human, and are therefore subject to human ails.
The difficulty of selecting the next person to sit on the papal throne must be enormous. If the selection was just based on religion and devotion to their beliefs, who is to say who is the pious. On the other hand, seldom is such a selection limited to such "simple" objectives. Politics, nationality, past behavior, trials, tribulations, more politics, legal stances, economics, and on and on, will all come into play. It was noted in the history that the papacy has had several outside influences that were as humorous as some were deadly.
This time, let's hope the cardinals choose wisely. I (who is not even a Christian) would like to see someone a bit younger and in tune with worldly realities. I would like to see someone with remarkable ability to communicate to all; someone who exhibits high moral standards and who will not brook misbehavior, even by the lowliest of the orders; a person who will have progressive insights regarding women; a pope who appreciates the daily changes and attitudes of the world around him. I would want these things of any world leader, and, like it or not, the pope is a world leader.
The cardinals have an opportunity to move in the right direction. We are on the cusp of a whole new world, and all those coming along for the ride should be in tune with what's happening in today's universe.
(BTW, Justis, I remember Cecil and Beanie, too.)
@Justis4You
You mean as in Cecil the Sea-sick Sea Serpent?
Too mucha skulduggerya and butt buggeryia, ina mya opiniona.
It's hard to believe that the bureaucratic monarchial mess that is the Roman Catholic church represents Christianity on earth for so many people.
And people still belong to this vicious cult... Go figure!
It is just mind-boggling that anyone still gives this organization money.
Amazing how far MSNBC will go to denigrate the Church. Equally amazing is some of the comments above with outrageous claims (with no proof).
If you don't like the Church don't go.
Non-religious governments/countries/societies killed 100 times more people throughout history than the Church. Non-religious governments/countries/societies hurt more people throughout history than the Church. (See Greece/Egypt/China/Russia/Rome)
If you have a child he/she has a 90% better chance of being killed/hurt at a public school than at any Church in the US
The Church helps 20 tjmes more people than the UN.
Will this nonsense ever stop, it's getting old.
I imagine it will stop when butt buggery of alter boys is not swept under the rug.
You are asking for proof? (Looks around, can't find a mathematics conversation here).
NJSteve, you're not very good at this are you? Science works with probability, plausibility, not proofs. Understand?
In what way does this article denigrate the church Steve? I find it a sickening pandering to the church, and a desperate attempt to make the pope picking process appear relevant. Oh, and the catholic church has CREATED more poverty than it has alleviated with its idiotic and archaic stance against contraception, a stance that the large majority of THEIR OWN MEMBERS disagree with.
I can't see where this article is denigrating the Catholic Church. People are saying this could be a contentious conclave with multiple possible candidates as well as addressing ongoing controversies. The article writer is noting that previous conclaves over the centuries dealt with much worse situations, many of which driven by politics of the time.
It's unlikely that we're going to see another Great Schism or outright threats or public riots as a result of this conclave. What will be seen is who will be chosen and his ability to carry on Benedict's policies.
This article features just a little of the dirt known about the Popes and the Jesuits. According the books (I and II) "Codeword Barbelon" by P.D. Stuart, the Roman Catholic Church is the Anti-Christ. And there are designs within that church of taking over America and robbing Americans of their constitutional rights. In those books the author proves that the Roman Catholic Church is the Anti-Christ and that Obama, Clinton, and many other American politician are helping that church accomplish its goals of establishing a New World Order. Those books even suggests that many American Catholics don't have the slightest idea of what their church is about or that it had a lot to do with 9/11. Because I am a heavy reader, a neighbor gave me both books. But you might be able to borrow copies from you local library if you're interested in knowing what's going on. The books are expensive otherwise, but they are very informative.
Wow Leapole, you may want to cut down on the meds somewhat. Besides, we all know that the Catholic Church, Obama, Clinton and the Tooth Fairy are all controlled by outer space aliens. And it is actually Auntie Christ. a nice little old lady from Yonkers who routinely heals the sick (JEEZ!!)
The child has a greater chance of being killed at a public school than at a strip club, but that doesn't mean that I want him there, either.
"Little known dirt"? If you got off your lazy bum and went to the library or on-line, you can find a wide variety of the books that "out" the old white MEN who through the ages have done shenanigans in the name of the Church. It's called History.
We'll stop criticizing your silly cult if you keep your Catholic sharia laws out of our secular government and stop hiding pedophiles.
The solution to the child molestation issue is simple, really simple: NEVER leave your child alone with an adult, and that includes a priest ---- ESPECIALLY a priest who insists that your child will be safe with him! THEN the problem will be solved.
I'd be concerned with leaving intact male dogs with priests! Sorry if that offends, but that's my faith you must respect it.
LOL, sigh.
When the pope is having sex with a bishop, is that what's known as doing it "dogma style"?
And this is the Organization people want to belong to? Vile, corrupt, deceiving, murderous, lies throughout history, using folklore, fairy tales, belittling science and not having any inkling that the Earth revolved around the Sun and NOT the Center Of The Universe. They are supposed to be the stepping stone to God and don't have a clue about anything? Use your brains people. All you need is to see the history of this Church and they are still lying to folks, hiding criminals, won't reveal what's in the Vatican Archives and it took a Butler for everyone to see JUST the tip of the Iceberg. If you can not see this Organizational ruse then I am sorry for you, period. The truth is what it is. The real nonsense is that some people don't want to know the truth or care about the truth. I for one let the facts speak for themselves.
Hey Al- What was in the butlers leaked documents?Please enlighten me.You and the atheist should get together and write a book with all your "facts".
One fact I forgot is that you're oblivious to any facts. Read History, Google it, read a non-fiction book. Look around you. Know the differences between truth and corruption. Use your brain. Figure it all out. How simple is that.
NJSteve
Where is your proof of that, the church? Please, that's like saying everything on the internet is correct and factual
If you have the evidence to prosecute the Roman Catholic Church, then, by all means, do it. If you don't, then "probabilities" are just chip on the shoulder talking points. What happened to all of the local prosecutors? If crimes were committed where are they?
Actually Monsignor William Lynn is sitting in prison right now for conspiring to cover up for pedophile priests.
It would happen more often but the Catholic hierarchy has been very successful at keeping these rapes hidden, and pushing them past the statute of limitations. Too bad the Catholic hierarchy never called the cops, not even once.
One of the greatest evidences of the Catholic Church being guided by the Holy Spirit is that it survives the idiocy of humanity - and these papal elections highlight this all too well. Despite all the politicking and "human ambition", the Church keeps moving along.
While these particular elections are head-shakingly bad, it is right to acknowledge that the majority of them have run quite well, as will this upcoming one. Meanwhile, enjoy the pageantry and Gregorian Chant.
There are older faiths than Catholicism. Longevity is not evidence of anything except longevity.
Yeah. Stupidity has been around forever.
Oh, I almost forgot. What are some of the other evidences? Don't worry about trying for the so-called greatest evidences (LOL), I'll settle for some minor ones!
lol
The Catholic Church violates too many scriptures to list. Examples:
1. Call no man on this earth your spiritual father, Matt. 23:9. Church violates this.
2. Christ is the mediator between the Father and mankind; the Church substitutes Mary.
3. Peter never claimed to be the pope; Jesus was the Rock of the Church, not the man who denied him three times.
4. Paul said forbidding to marry was a doctrine of devils; the Church forbids it's priests to marry.
Hmmm, I never did say that longevity is evidence of anything.
As for evidence - I am not sure what would suffice. Thomas Aquinas works for me, as does history, and other things, but others may have different standards (strict empiricists, rationalists, idealists - it is an epistemology professors dream - or nightmare).
OldTimeDemocrat,
1. If the Catholic Church violates this, then so does St. Paul when he calls Isaac "Father" (Romans 9:10) and St. John does likewise when he calls men "Fathers" (1 John 2:13).
2. From the Catholic Catechism, paragraph 480:
Jesus Christ is true God and true man, in the unity of his divine person; for
this reason he is the one and only mediator between God and men.
So your statement that Mary is substituted is incorrect.
3. The Catholic Church teaches that Jesus is the foundation (1 Corinthians 3:11), but that the Church is built on Peter as Rock, for Jesus said he is the rock (Matthew 16:18). The rock rests on the foundation of Christ.
4. No priest is forbidden to marry - they freely choose to not do so (Matthew 19:12, 1 Corinthians 7:32) and it is to their benefit since they are free from the burdens of the married life, being able to completely give of themselves to the service of God. They embrace this life of their own decision, and if they later feel the need to be married, then they may step down from the clerical ministry and be free to marry and move on to a new occupation.
OldTimeDemocrat, consider yourself corrected (Matthew 18:15, James 5:19-20). God bless you.
Old Time Democrat
Where do you get this crap?
1. Even Jesus was not our spiritual father. That is left for God the Father and has not changed.
2. Mary is an INTERCESSOR, not a mediator. I don't completely agree with some beliefs of Mary, but nobody worships her or gives any undue merit other than she is the mother of God.
3. Jesus said, "You are Peter, the Rock and upon this rock I will build my church." Sounds conclusive to me.
4. Paul said in many of the epistles that a celebate life allows you to focus on the spiritual, avoid the earthly pleasures and seek the heavenly ones.
Get it right!
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Impressive illustration!
Picard!
athiest you got WAAAYYYY too much time on your hands, creative though
Atheist-6939529
Brilliant, gotta love that imaginative configuration.
Well, at least the pope is infallible.
only when speaking on matters of church business(faith and morals)and only when done in unison with the church hierarchy.It's slightly more technical but in no way should the term infallible be distorted to imply perfect,sinless or unable to be wrong.Merely another misconception by the folks who are opposed to the church yet have no actual knowledge of church doctrine.
There is only ONE choice for Pope....
Barack Hussein Obama; this would reach out to the Black Identity Christian and Muslim world at the same time.
Behold: "Pope TROJANis the First, His Eminence."
Don't you have some redneck KKK candidate you would prefer? Live in Alabama or Mississippi?
Will someone please take away OldTimeDemocrat's keyboard, please!?!
Interesting article. Even MORE interesting comments.....I was wondering when one of the "true beleivers" would step into rescue the poor bebattled Church....hope I don't receive eternal damnation for saying its all looking a bit creepy from a non catholic perspective....I imagine that the Church can and has hired DarthVader and Associates ESQ for representaion on all fronts......Who is the Guy with the Furry Hat in the Background of the Photo, is that a Royal Guard or something? Looks like a Gay Pride Parade Costume.
I did not know that about the internal laws for the leaders of the church. It would make sense that someone smart over the years decided to write into the bylaws something saying nomater what, ye shall not have the organization shaken....That way the group is self perpetuating
All in all, in 2013, same rules apply, where theres smoke theres fire, these guys are probably freak shows behind closed doors, certainly not taking my Kids there
Sky, if you did any research, you would know that this is the uniform of the Swiss Guard, who's job it is to protect and defend the Vatican. Your ignorance is showing.
This charade is so "much ado about nothing", as Shakespeare is wont to say.
Why the world waits with bated breath in anticipation of the decision of who the lucky fella who will be the next Pope numbs the mind!
Electing a pope - supposedly some arbitrary human who theoretically is so divine that he is God's representative to the Church and also Man because they will be worshipped almost a much as God Himself is by the rabid, unwavering followers of Catholicism is more about archaic ceremonies than anything remotely divine.
Finally getting around to deciding on who this random humble choice will be is nothing more than self-serving politics decided by those who will benefit the most from their choice - sounds like the "Tammany Hall" political style practiced in the 1800's that the real world outside the influence of the Catholic Church frowns upon - but then, the rest of us don't condone shielding serial pedophiliacs, either!
I'm still trying to figure out how anyone can read passages of the bible without giggling at the absurdity of it all.
Good luck with that, for you wil never find the answer.
The Catholic Church has zero in common with the Christianity that Yeshua laid down. It's nothing more than a demonic cult fabricated by man. And just to think that 1 in 7 people posting here belong to it. Keep drinking the Kool-Aid
See you Saturday at the Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses
"The pope they finally elected decided a repeat would be unwise and instituted what are now known as conclaves, with the electors kept behind closed doors until they make a decision..."
We should take note & do the same with Congress. Lock them behind closed doors & do not let them out until they make a decision.
The conclave....grueling!!
All that time alone without a boy!
Im sure some of those cardinals are willing/already have killed for the chance to be pope.
Surprisingly, based on Father Andrew Greeley's work on the subject, most Cardinals have absolutely no ambition to be pope. And the ones who do tend to never make it - too much obvious ambition is frowned upon.