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Subscribe to RSSThe cardinals will fill out ballots in the Sistine Chapel until all 77 ballots – two-thirds plus one of the cardinal electors – reach a consensus. NBC's Anne Thompson reports.
When the College of Cardinals convenes Tuesday to choose a pope, it will revive a centuries-old tradition — cut off from the world by an oath of secrecy and doors that close with a firm and final thud.
In a ritual that has been described by participants as solemn and moving, the cardinals will gather in the Sistine Chapel for their conclave, a word drawn from the Latin terms for "with" and "key." They will vote, four times a day after the first day, until they settle on a leader for the world's 1.2 billion Roman Catholics.
In many respects, the ritual is unchanged from the rules Pope Gregory X instituted 800 years ago. But this time, there's a wild card: The previous pope, Benedict XVI, is still alive, and while he won't be in the room, he will probably have an indirect say in the outcome.
Benedict spent just seven years as pope but appointed 67 of the 115 cardinals eligible to vote on his successor. The rest were appointed by his predecessor and theological soul mate, Pope John Paul II. Benedict also made changes to the voting rules that could keep the cardinals working long past the four ballots it took to elect him in 2005.
"It takes as long as it takes. No one wants to rush this," Cardinal Daniel Di Nardo, the archbishop of Houston, told reporters this week. While he spoke, Vatican workers were preparing the chapel for the gathering — closing it to visitors and installing anti-bugging devices and the stove where the cardinals' ballots will be burned to produce the black or white smoke that tells the world how they're coming along.
Locked up in the Vatican
However long it takes, the cardinals will be locked inside the Vatican, with no newspapers, no TV, no radio, no Twitter or Facebook.
During the day, they will deliberate inside the Sistine Chapel, beneath Michelangelo's breathtaking "Creation of Adam," with its famous depiction of God and Adam touching fingers.
At night, they will bed down in the Casa Santa Marta, which John Paul II had built in 1996. It's relatively modest but a dramatic upgrade from what the cardinals were provided before then — cubicles furnished only with cots and washbasins, with but one bathroom per 10 people.
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Pope Benedict XVI delivered his final audience Feb. 28, 2013, in St. Peter's Square as he prepared to stand down.
Usually, the dean of the College of Cardinals presides, but the current dean, Cardinal Angelo Sodano, is 85 and disqualified from the voting, which is limited to cardinals under 80. So Cardinal Giovanni Battista Re, the prefect emeritus of the Congregation for Bishops, will be in charge.
Custom and conclave rules fashioned over centuries mean the cardinals have assigned seating, with the prime seats going to two "cardinal bishops" — the senior Rome cardinals who are younger than age 80 and therefore eligible to vote.
Then come the four patriarchs of the Eastern Catholic churches, the middle-ranking "cardinal priests" who make up the bulk of the college, and the most junior members, the "cardinal deacons."
"It does look quite dramatic, all of the cardinals dressed in scarlet sitting around," said Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O'Connor, former president of the Catholic Bishops' Conference of England and Wales, who took part in Benedict's election in 2005.
Then somebody says extra omnes: Everybody out except the cardinals.
"That's a very dramatic moment, because the door is shut — there's a thud," Murphy-O'Connor, who is too old to take part this time, told the BBC in a long interview for its radio documentary series "Witness" last month. "I remember looking around at the other 114 cardinals and thinking to myself, 'Well, one of us will be going out with a white cassock on.'"
Ballot after ballot, day after day
Once locked in the room, the cardinals will take a collective oath of secrecy. That's followed by a roll call in which each cardinal, with his hand on the Bible, individually swears: "And I, (name), do so promise, pledge and swear. So help me God and these Holy Gospels which I touch with my hand," according to John L. Allen's book "Conclave: The Politics, Personalities, and Process of the Next Papal Election."
Allen, Vatican correspondent for the National Catholic Reporter, is considered one of the world's foremost experts on the church. His book, published in 2002, is an encyclopedic chronicle of how things work when the cardinals gather. Much of what else is publicly known about the process comes from the Vatican's Code of Canon Law and history and apostolic letters on the election of the pope issued in 1996 by John Paul II and in 2007 by Benedict XVI.
When the voting finally begins Tuesday, there will be one round of voting in the afternoon, followed by two every morning and two every afternoon until someone gets two-thirds of the votes.
Each cardinal gets two or three ballot papers, inscribed Eligo in summum pontificem ("I elect as supreme pontiff"). They're encouraged to disguise their handwriting and to fold the paper twice to prevent eavesdropping.
Then each cardinal walks up to an altar that stands before Michelangelo's turbulent "Last Judgment." After kneeling in a brief moment of prayer, he recites in Latin: "I call as my witness Christ the Lord, who will be my judge, that my vote is given to the one who before God I think should be elected." He then slides his ballot into a chalice using a large circular plate.
Three cardinals chosen at random count the ballots; three others chosen at random check their work. The cardinals can keep their own tallies, because each vote is read out before it's threaded with a needle and string; at the end, they're all gathered by the strings and tied together in a knot. Assuming there's no winner, the session's second round of voting begins immediately.
Twice a day, after the morning and afternoon sessions, the ballots are burned in a special stove.
That's how the masses outside know how things are going. If there's no new pope, the knotted-up ballots are treated with damp straw or a special chemical so that they produce a black smoke. The dramatic appearance of white smoke — signaling a winner — is produced by using a different chemical or by leaving it out altogether.
Technically, the cardinals are supposed to keep their own counsel, but many accounts over the decades make it clear that extensive debate and discussion goes on during breaks and in the residence.
A (relatively) new way of doing things
Benedict's election was unusually quick, coming after only four ballots. More commonly, the balloting takes a few days, and because of a change Benedict instituted in 2007, there's the potential for a long conclave this time.
Benedict was elected under rules stipulating that after about 30 ballots, depending on how many votes are taken on the first day, the cardinals could choose to drop the threshold for election to a simple majority.
Benedict threw out that stipulation, meaning a two-thirds vote will be needed for all of the ballots. After 33 or 34 ballots, and occasional one-day breaks for prayer and reflection, the election is narrowed to the two leading vote-getters — but even then, Benedict ordered, the winner has to get two-thirds.
Many "Vaticanisti" — the pundits and journalists who obsessively follow the political goings-on of the church — predict that this change will result in a compromise pope, with the leader in early balloting ultimately fading.
Eventually, someone will be chosen, at which point the senior cardinal will ask the winner, "Do you accept your canonical election as Supreme Pontiff?" If he says yes (accepto), he is the pope, just like that. The new pope will then declare his papal name.
"Then he goes out," Murphy-O'Connor said. "There's a papal tailor outside with three cassocks, white cassocks — large, medium and small — and then after 10 minutes or so he comes back and he's put in the middle and we all go up and kiss his ring.
"It doesn't matter how you voted, whatever. He's the pope now," Murphy-O'Connor added. "It's very dramatic, it's very moving, and it's very faithful."
After the white smoke appears — historically triggering extended cheers from the thousands gathered outside — a senior cardinal will step onto the balcony of St. Peter's Basilica and declare: Annuntio vobis gaudium magnum. Habemus papam. ("I announce to you news of great joy. We have a pope.")
The new pope, whoever he is, then appears before the throng and performs his first official public act. It is a simple apostolic blessing called Urbi et orbi ("to the city and the world"):
May the Holy Apostles Peter and Paul, in whose power and authority we have confidence, intercede on our behalf to the Lord.
Through the prayers and merits of the Blessed Mary ever-virgin, of Blessed Michael the Archangel, of Blessed John the Baptist and of the Holy Apostles Peter and Paul and of all the saints, may Almighty God have mercy on you, and with your sins forgiven, may Jesus Christ lead you into everlasting life.
May the Almighty and merciful Lord grant you indulgence, absolution and remission of all your sins, time for a true and fruitful penance, an always repentant heart and amendment of life, the grace and consolation of the Holy Spirit and final perseverance in good works.
And may the blessing of Almighty God, and the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit descend on you and remain with you always.
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The Holy Spirit is the most evil, disgusting creature in the entire universe It smells like a pile of rotting fish heads and looks like the ugliest, slimiest piece of filth that could possibly be imagined. The Holy Spirit holds down children for catholic priests to bugger and joins in every chance it gets
Remember, the toes you step on today may be connected to the ass you have to kiss tomorrow.
Imaginary beings and places don't scare me.
What if you're wrong??
What proof do you have the God does not exist??
Prove to me there is not God.
With one statement, I can prove God exist.
"Before the beginning of the Universe... what was there and who made it?"
Let's turn this one around, Sadden. Your statement proves nothing. And, there is enough scientific PROOF to discredit nearly everything the fairytale collection called the Bible has to say about creation of the universe. So, what proof do YOU have to support statemtns made 2,000 years ago?
I canz play dominoz better than yus canz. I canz play dominos better than yous canz. I bet I can play dominos better than yous canz.
"With one statement, I can prove God exist.
"Before the beginning of the Universe... what was there and who made it?""
LOL that's proof of a God? Why would whatever or whoever made the universe, you and I know, be a GOD? I guess you need to define GOD for us.
For all you know some dude in a lab made our universe in jar, Does that make him a God or a dude with a job in another dimension ?
So in my opinion you have ZIP for proof. All you have is a belief that whoever or whatever made the universe is a GOD, which may not be the case at all. Unless of course your definition of a GOD "is someone that makes something" you don't have S*&%&T for proof and if that is your definition then just about everyone with a trade in construction is a GOD.
Next time you want to prove GOD is real I think you need to try harder.
But remember, as the man/slug cross who brags that, as a child, he was beaten by nuns, once said: "The tide comes in, the tide goes out."
Child molestation aside, just the spectacle of a bunch of old men wearing goofy robes and hats, meeting in complete secrecy to choose a guy who will be miraculously elevated to serve as the middleman for a billion people who actually believe this chosen middleman is their connection to the big guy in the sky, really is quite a spectacle. This guy's buddies then let everyone else know that the middleman has been chosen with smoke signals. This miraculously elevated guy then gets to wear the most uber goofy outfit conceivable, and proceeds to travel the world, perpetuating one of the longest running scams in the history the world.
It is shockingly obvious that Sadden American doesn't understand physics, or logic.
There is absolutely no empirical evidence that an supernatuiral deity exists or has ever existed. Belief is the absence of fact.
"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence"
The burden of proof rests on the one who posits. One cannot un or disprove what does not exist. The one who posits the statement that something exists must prove it exists. I am planning on suing the rabbis, and other clergy for fraud. They can put Bernie Madoff away for 125 yerars for fraudulently obtaining billions of dollars, they can take away honors and money from Lance Armstrong, so must these religious leaders be sent to prison for fraudulently obtaining trillions of dollars through the years. I plan on having the court supoena God, Moses, Jesus, and Satan, all who have been used to solicit funds. If they do not appear on the court date, the judge will be forced from his bench to issue a warrant for their arrest. After so much time, if they do not show, they will be declared not to exist, and the religions will be declared fraudulent. I plan on forming an international recovery act and putting all the lawsuit money in trust for educational programs to help liberate people all over the world from the fraud of religion.
I don't care if you are an unbeliever but I do not understand why you all are so determined to make everyone in to unbelievers. Why are you so afraid of the rest of us believing? There is no burden of my providing proof to you since you choose not to believe so give me the same courtesy and let me have my beliefs.
"However long it takes, the cardinals will be locked inside the Vatican, with no newspapers, no TV, no radio, no Twitter or Facebook."
I understand they could have none of this 800 years ago either. Tradition lives on...
If anybody happens to see "Sadden American's" brain laying around, try not to step on it, he may try to use it some day.
i is better at checkers...i is better at checkers...i is better at checkers...
well, sadden - your PROBLEM is typical of DELUDED BELIEVERS - first off, things postulated are "PROVEN", NOT "PROVEN NOT TO EXIST" (thus you begin with a basic error of LOGIC (not that believers USE logic anyway... but I digress)
Second (and most important) - you are professing a BELIEF - BELIEF can be NEITHER PROVEN NOR DIS-PROVEN (if it could be either way, it would no longer be a BELIEF but a demonstrable FACT (or lack thereof). Your statement about "well the universe exists, what made it" can be logically extended to include "and what that which made the universe?". You assert that everything has something that "created it" - why doesn't that extend to this mythical "supreme entity" as well?
oh wait - Flying Spaghetti Monster always HAS and always WILL exist - even if YOU don't "believe" FSM LOVES YOU!. Identical LOGIC...
So... going back to the beginning, you can see which way I lean by the "deluded believer" comment.
Yours in devout atheism,
PUT A FORK IN IT (religion is DONE)
leroy brown: "Imaginary beings and places don't scare me."
Then why are you here spewing your evil venom?
Maybe all the non believers, athiests, etc., should talk to people who have actually died from a clinical standpoint, and came back to life. Ask them what they experienced. Might give you something else to think about.
I think all of you should smoke some weed and babble on about something else because not a damn one of you knows the truth. It's this simple, either you have faith or you don't. The reason why we smoke the dope is because it is a gateway drug. Which is a gateway to LSD. Which is a gateway to God.
The proof:
The late great David Carradine put it best. When he wasn't doing Kung Fu or Kill Bill. He was running around Beverly Hills, naked, breaking into his neighbors home, and when the cops arrested him. He was always screaming about "Why should I spend 90 dollars on cocaine to get a undefinable buzz for 20 minutes? When for 5 bucks I can do a hit of LSD and see the face of God for eight hours!
You idiots need to lighten up. You will only find out the truth when your dead.
... and when your dead.
The Worms win!
No one really cares what your silly cult believes but we do resent your cult's attempt to use our secular government to impose its bizarre sharia laws on everyone, and its global conspiracy to cover up the rape of children.
skrekk,
When idiot Teabaggers come to the table they always expose themselves with stupid rants.
What part of the constitution doesn't your dumbass get, when it says the seperation of church & state?
sharia law? You are an adult right? Then why are you being feed crap like sharia law? What a dope!
put a fork in it, our finite minds cannot comprehend that something always existed and had no beginning.
Here's something for thought.
Supposedly the universe began with a big bang so for the sake of this explanation we could say the big bang created the universe. What created the stuff that caused the big bang or did that stuff always exist and decide on its own one day to explode and create the universe and everything we know? Gasses do not have the ability to think so they cannot decide on their own to explode and they sure as heck cannot decide to form the universe when they explode.
That said I've never seen anything created from an explosion. Any person with even half a brain knows you cannot drop a bomb in a junkyard and get a fully flight ready airplane so how the heck did an explosion create the universe?
jmc, lack of knowledge is not knowledge. There was no BEFORE the big bang as time and space came into existence with it.
You should direct your question to the Catholic Bishops Conference and ask them why they've spent millions lobbying against same-sex marriage.
Apparently they want all Americans to be forced to comply with their silly sharia laws.
First, Leroy, you have problems.
To the point, without cell phones, internet, or any of the other modern electronic perks, they'll be out of there in a flash.
Old people aren't addicted to modern electronics.
there is no reference to a "pope" in the bible...there should be none....it was a concoction of the early church..many early popes were so corrupt, they would make pedifile priests look like saints...look up ur history...why does the "holy roman catholic church" only teach their catechism (churches interpretation) not the bible?...thats why the monk... martin luther started the reformation!..debunking the horse@!$%# of the pious church in the 1500's.....and i'm not even religious..lol
the catholic church believes we "laymen" are just too stupid to interpret the bible for ourselves...while they adore themselves in pompous robes and tell us not to use condoms.....lol ..selibut gay guys only for the preisthood!....but gay not good for you!!!!!lol
robert langdpn will explain it to you all
jrsyjorg <<<~~~~~>>> The Catholic Church does not now AND HAS NEVER HAS forbidden reading of The Bible. There are lots of valid criticism of the CC. Why don't you stick with that rather than make up some fiction?
Regardless of your sentiments about the Vatican, the Roman Catholic church, popes, the process, the exclusion of women, etc, there is a pretty good movie from 1968 called The Shoes of the Fisherman, with Anthony Quinn (and other great stars) that offers a very interesting dramatization of the process of electing a pope. It also presaged by a decade or so the first election of a non-Italian pope in hundreds of years.
Hey, Leroy. Did you ever think you might be controlled by Satan yourself?
is that you Leroy...or is it satan...
THE DEVIL MADE ME SAY IT...
So the media keeps reporting, "The doors are locked" while they discuss who will be next pope..ooohhhh...who cares...and why is it important the doors be locked? Oh boy...those doors are locked......ooohhhhh!!!.....As if someone will run out and spoil the party surprise?...Are they that starved for attention?
I think it has something more to do with those tall pointy party hats and that pool of jello they had brought in, and......were those really priests and cardinals or were they Chippendale dancers in those robes ?!!!!!!
That the whole world knows about. They don't have secret ballots, they have closed ballots.
One lesson they did learn was that they need to elect a pope with one foot in the grave. They were embarrassed when Jean-Paul Jr lived too long.
What am I missing? What is so thrilling that you would dedicate your life to wanting to wear the top clown suit with Dorothy in Oz bedroom slippers? Can't someone just go down to the local costume supply sales/rentals and live out their fantasy?
The elected pope will be interviewed on Piers Morgan.
Jersyborg, sorry to tell you, but everything you typed in your comment was generally wrong. Seems you have been listening to people transfer misguided opinions from one person to the next who has no idea. So, your information becomes the truth to you. Thats ok, maybe as you said, you don't have the capability to learn and understand. Two little things... if you are not part of the church, and you believe in nothing, which is fine for you, how can the church be telling you that you cant wear a condom? Kind of like only owning a bicycle and getting mad because someone tells you that you can't drive your Ferrari over 180mph. And Luther.... he came up with an escape plan from being killed off by a corrupt government that was trying to do in the Catholic church. Later in life he begged and petitioned to be forgiven by the Catholic church. Gotta get some facts right or you are just a whiner.
Cardinal: "I'll trade you some of my victim trophies if you elect me as pope and when I become pope I'll make that pedophile associate friend of yours into a cardinal and later he can elect you as pope"
Cardinal: "It's a deal"
Dissociate... thats it? Man, stay out of comedy or whatever you are trying there. It aint working for ya.
That's true. But, the Catholic Church did strongly resist attempts to translate the Bible from Latin to national languages, such as English and German. This served to limit those who COULD read the Bible.
If you read up on the history of the Papal elections, you'll see that there were strong outside influences ... and even outsiders present at the Conclave. So, locking the doors against outside forces has strong symbolism.
Back in the day so many splinter religions were trying to translate the bible to suit their own needs it was being hacked away from the true original scriptures left and right. Plus, being the biggest selling book of all time.... it was a good thing to rewrite it to make people happy and make a ton of cashola even back then.... plus, a good powerful leader could certainly use a good word or two included on his behalf... plus, if you ever learn Latin, translation into any of the other languages is pretty tricky business. Bottom line, it was not to prevent people from reading the bible. And there are tons of other reasons that would red line that assumption.
Barry... ....attendance by invitation only.....Couple nun bouncers......Problem solved......Or.....Like the little Rascals sign on their clubhouse......no girls allowed....!
Nuns for bouncers with rulers or pointer sticks...nobody gets past them!
The most patriarchal organisation in the world, with no interest in women as equals, with lots of interest in preserving and enhancing their power.
So?
@Sadden American 2012
Outdated and male centric.
The country with most Catholic is Brazil, next is Mexico. The continent with the most Catholic in the world is Africa.
Put 2 together and what do you have?
nellewrites: As much as women would love to have authority over a man it is not God's will. It is good however that women play a vital role in the day to day operations of christian churches. Not just the Catholic church but every church that I'm aware of except Islam which is another story all by itself and not what I would consider a church or even a religion. However according to God's word I believe I am correct in saying that they should not be allowed to preach God's word. In other words they should not be the head of a church. Yes they can do a great deal within the day to day operations of the church. Here are some verses to clarify what I mean. 1 Timothy 2:8-12 8 Therefore I want the men everywhere to pray, lifting up holy hands without anger or disputing. 9 I also want the women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, adorning themselves, not with elaborate hairstyles or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, 10 but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God.11 A woman[a] should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[b] she must be quiet.13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women[c] will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
hey day......which came first....the chicken or the egg?.....And can a small child in a big chair find happiness in a big room?....Whatever happened to Naiomi?
Where did you get an unadulterated copy of god's word? And even if you have what you think is, how do you know it is the original? If you refer to the bible as god's word, why does it get incorrectly translated, edited, paraphrased, rewritten, revised, etc every few years? Is god that indecisive?
As for believing in mythical beings, didn't you have a more positive relationship with the Easter Bunny, Santa Klaus, and the Tooth Fairie that the one that supports sexually abusing young boys?
As for believing in mythical beings, didn't you have a more positive relationship with the Easter Bunny, Santa Klaus, and the Tooth Fairie that the one that supports sexually abusing young boys?
Say what??? I do not have anything to do with any of that garbage. I follow God's holy days in Leviticus 23
"The country with most Catholic is Brazil, next is Mexico. The continent with the most Catholic in the world is Africa.
Put 2 together and what do you have?"
A brazil nut?
After reading Nelleswrites and a bunch of other comments on here... really getting the feeling that 99.99% of you have no real idea of the institution or teachings of the Catholic church. But you all do seem to know an awful lot of the myths that are constantly perpetuated by the media and others of no faith. Its funny to see, but sad. Kind of like seeing some ass kicking a poor doggy down the street, kind of makes you mad, but the thing most of us say is "What the hell is bugging you in your head that you are taking it out on the doggy, it didn't have anything to do with it"
The Thinker, I understand people having typos sometimes, and maybe making a grammatical error as this is just a comment site and people are pecking away. But your poor spelling of common words is not a result of typos. Go back to school, learn to spell... it will do you some good compared to spending your hate filled days in your moms basement typing you unsubstantiated opinions as fact in an attempt to somehow justify your own short comings and empty life. Good luck.
@bigobamafan
Funny you said that, because the one that have their mind restrict in everything is the people who believe in the teaching of a 2000 years old book or religious institution that is really outdated with reality.
I think for myself, not living my life according to some teaching or from some books. However, you can't say the same about you and religion institution. So, who here have a clouded mind and can't think outside of the box?
Won't take Long, they can't stand being away from their KIDS!
In Catholicism women can be priests, while in Islam it is extremely rare to see a woman Imam, and not allowed in most countries. So no, Catholicism is not the most patriarcal organisation. Buddhists also have a long ways to go. And there is plenty of other religions where women are still not allowed to be priests or Imam (whatever the name is for the religion).
I'd bet its just spin the bottle and there ya have it. New Pope.
Close, it's spin the altar boy.
Bazinga !!
When the pope is having sex with a bishop, is that what's known as doing it 'Dogma Style'?
Damn... you people are just sick.
If you were to make jokes like that about BHO you'd be crying racism or hate... and yet you make fun of things you don't uderstand.
You are the reason there is hate in the world... I pity you...
Homy, that's the funniest thing I've ever heard. Too bad you stole it from me :-)
SaddenAmerican - the only ones to pity are the people with brains so small that they fall into the trap of religion. There is no hate here, just poking fun at the catholics.
@Sadden American. I was raised Roman Catholic so I know very well what I am talking about. The jokes wouldn't be nearly as funny if the Roman Catholic Church weren't such hypocrites.
Those jokes are funny and they are not racist because the Catholic religion isn't a race. There is no such thing as hate speech in the US because of the First Amendment Free Speech clause. You don't have the right not to be offended by the views of others.
@Sadden American,
You wanna know what is really sick (other than you can't take a joke), the long twisted, narrow minded, and countless acts of violence justified by the belief that the Catholics god/deity (who is unproven to exist and logically improbable, admittedly jealous, insecure, and sexist) is A) the true and only "God" and B) a man (pope) elected by men can talk with such said nonexistent god. I find this religion along with it's history of violence etc to be really sick in the head. Makes me sick and disappointed in humanity's intelligence knowing people really believe one man (the pope) can talk to god. I could see this being eaten up say seventeen hundred years ago, but in modern times to believe this B.S. you'd have to turn a blind eye to reason, logic, and critical thinking. Have fun getting offended, and good luck in your defense of the easter bunny, Oh I meant the adult version God. Oh and Im pretty sure That good old catholic church has contributed to more hate, fear mongering, and bigotry than any one in this discussion could ever imagine. Hell they have been hating, judging, a declaring war's in the name of god for centuries. Now take a minute, breathe and accept it. Don't believe me? Learn the history of what you defend from a third party neutral source as to weed out any bias' either for or against catholicism.
P.s. Your religion frowns upon judging others, and since you did, ya better get down on your knees and repent for the man. And learn to laugh at yourself. I mean come on why so serious?
I agree..and if it doesn't work out right...just retire that Pope and hire another..
The job of being Pope Used to be a Lifelong thing..You have the job till you die...
Hard to tell what the church will do from here on out..Could turn into a 8-10 year job..??
The Lunatic
Taking credit for a crappy joke is really stupid!
Chandler- you look like an intelligent man,wait..let me start again,Chandler-Your theory that the teachings of the church should be told by a third party is how many of these other silly posts got here.I wonder if reading a book on democracy written by the north koreans would give a true representation or would it be biased and off base?To base your knowledge of catholicism on sources other than church teaching is a bit silly.If your point is that the church is fraudulent because it has always had evil doers in it, then I almost understand ,except that every institution has frauds and criminals in their ranks.To not distinguish between the acts of certain individuals and the organizations they supposedly represent would seem a bit naive.The church,or law enforcement,or teachers union,and certainly our gov't ,have had 'scandals',yet I don't dismiss the organization because of some bad apples.hope this clears up some of your confusion.(like your pope/god concept)
There is such a thing as decency on this website. Today is the Sabbath guys. Try to keep it Holy OK. Speak not your own words. Isaiah 58:13 “If you keep your feet from breaking the Sabbath and from doing as you please on my holy day, if you call the Sabbath a delight and the Lord’s holy day honorable, and if you honor it by not going your own way and not doing as you please or speaking idle words,
To condemn Catholics or the Church because of a handful of corrupt individuals is like saying Americans and the US are evil because of Bush/Obama and the Tea Party/Socialists. Yes there are bad people in the church who have done bad things. Yes they should be punished. But to use that as an excuse for bigotry and hate is ignorant. Swap Catholic for any other group in some of these posts and you would be ashamed to have said such things. You can't justify being a bigot. Grow up for crying out loud.
(I put the slash so that both sides would get the analogy and because I didn't want to take a side by calling one evil and the other not and have the whole point get lost.)
HeyDay, We are not a Christian country so don't try to push your views on others. Re: Establishment Clause of the First Amendment.
I am a Pastafarian, so do not ever take the name Barilla in vain or I will unleash my fury on you.
Ramen.
sadden - IF you want to be "brain dead believer" be my guest - the joke's either IS ON or IS you... (take your pick)
I think one of the requirements to be hired as pope is that he has to be microsoft efficient.
epist - thou dost BLASPHEME - the word is R'amen. RAMEN is a noodle soup...hmmm wait a minute - eastern protocol says Ramen and western protocol says R'amen.
ICEBERG...GOLDBERG... what's the DIFFERENCE? Maybe the ancient tracts are incorrect... wait that's IMPOSSIBLE - they were transcribed directly from the noodly appendage...
Even if we concede that there are only a "handful" of bad actors in the Catholic Church (a debatable point), their offenses were actively concealed by the entire hierarchy, all the way to Rome. That's why people feel such derision for the Church.
Can you name a single bishop or cardinal who called the cops when he learned about a pedophile priest?
Just one will do to prove that the entire hierarchy wasn't involved in a global conspiracy to cover up the rape of children.
@BarryNJ, The church would change if the butts in the pews stopped giving and stopped appearing but their acceptance and continued attendance is a de-facto support of the financial crimes and pedophilia that are committed by the RCC.
I was raised Catholic but I left the church in 1992 or so when the pedophilia scandal and other actions became obvious. I tried other churches but now I am a secular humanist when I accepted that I do not need to believe in a deity to live a moral and ethical life. The fact that there is no proof of a deity existing also played a role.
Typical posts. Pathetic.
There's an old saying, those who envy dost protest the loudest.
The only heterosexual encounters the Pope has is Nun.
damn, you got a laugh outta me on that one. And it's so cheesy. ah hahahaha
I have direct communication with Jesus. He says hey to Mary..
Is Mary still a dirty little ho?
Lery Brown... one sick individual...
I pity you... you must hate life...
Now now Leroy, don't dis lil' mary..afterall she was only 12 years old when an "angel" talked her into "doin it" for god. hmmmm see a pattern here?
I wonder if God will use MSN Comments as evidence to burn people who didn't honor Him?
I'm betting "god" has a better sense of humor than its followers!
@ WT I guess these folks will find out on their own. I am sure there is a hope that they get to make "deathbed" confessions. Yet "we will never know the hour..."
We Catholics have all become quite used to the daily bashing on these sites. What does surprise me today though is the virulent hatred. These are not "jokes" in any sense of the word. To defile the name of God and the Holy Spirit in such a way, and totally besmirch the character of the Blessed Virgin is beyond my understanding of what could possibly going on in your minds. Do you wake up every morning with that hatred? If so I suggest that perhaps you really should try to garner a little faith. That secularism "thing" obviously is not working very well.
hey - IF we keep trying we might irritate "sadden" (or is that "sodden") enough that it will stop responding...
Who cares about the Catholich Church? Or any church for that matter? Religion has become obsolete as modern science has answered or is answering all the questions which we used to rely on religion for. We're too civilized of a people now to think that life is controled and predetermined by some magic sky wizard, for whose existence there is no proof. We require proof for any scientific theory to become fact, yet spend $ trillions on churches every week because they scare us into thinking "Well, there is no proof he's real, but what if he is? I don't want to burn in Hell for eternity! So I better give the church 10% of my paycheck, just in case!"
VG - you may be interested in an article I posted on Newsvine a few months ago, I think this would be right up your ally:
http://thelunatic.newsvine.com/_news/2012/07/06/12598359-im-a-believer
VirginiaDemocrat- It sounds like you have visited all the wrong churches. Keep looking.
Yea, it's like the old song, " looking for lub in all the wrong places"
OK... if that's all true VG, just answer me one question.. with all your science stuff...
Before the Big Bang, before the universe existed... what was there?
SaddenAmerican - science is based mostly on observable data. Unfortunately all data of the time before the big bang was destroyed in the process. Without data, anything we say will be pure conjecture at best. But we can say for sure that the modern idea of 'god' does break every law of physics that we have observed.
Sadden American,
Interesting proposal, that is, what was in place before the start of our universal journey. It's a great mystery. But just because wrapping one's mortal brain around the incomprehensible is a difficult proposition, that in no way proves or disproves diety.
Larry ~~ ~~ ~~ >>> I gave you a thumbs up... BECAUSE you were honest enough to admit that the existence of God can be neither proven, nor disproven. Unlike you, the overwhelming majority of those who deny God, claim---in direct contradiction of the scientific method, that the fact that His existence cannot be proven, proves He does not exist.
Until you prove the existence of god, the 'existence of god' is a statement of theory. And the statement of theory can easily be disproven. That's all one has to do.
"Before the Big Bang, before the universe existed... what was there?" - Sadden American
Before god what was there? What created god? How can you believe in the existence of something without an explanation of how it came to be?
peter, the existence of god isn't even a theory. It does not qualify. That's why it's called "faith."
There is np proof Virginia? Go outside and look around, wake up every morning, The proof is all around you and science is great, it has provided Man with a lot. But, science studies and explains why this or that is so. Lol, "This or that" comes from God. It doesn't come from some mysterious boson particle created in a Big Bang. God created all that was necessary, matter and the rules, regulations governing matter; Nature. Science discovers the rules and regulations. I have no problem believing that God set all that we see around us in existence. Ok, some say that's fantasy. Lol, well, is believing that everything we see around us, the Earth, the stars all came about because a infinitismal point in the void suddenly exploded, creating all matter not fantasy? We're all free to believe whatever we want, it's cool, I choose to accept God and some choose to accept whatever science promotes as an explanation. "Show me God" people ask. Well, ok, ask science to show gravity, the most basic, powerful force in nature. Lol, science can't show, prove one gravity particle, it can only study the effects of gravity and conclude that gravity exists. I look around me, see the results of nature at work and I, for myself, am satisfied that God did it. Lol, all those who trumpet; "God is a joke, God is a myth, God never existed" should have all that put on a big card, to be held up when they are on their death bed surrounded by loved ones, because chances are good that they'll be calling upon God to save them, not praying; "Oh Great Mind mine, please save me." Anyway, we all believe in whatever helps us get through life with it's emotional trials and tribulations, some believe in God, some believe in particle physics, whatever.
If you think there is no proof for the existence of God, please read Thomas Aquinas "Summa Theologica." Einstein says: "Without religion science is lame; without science religion is blind." Einstein again: "I want to know how God created the universe. The rest is just details."
Energy, which can neither be created or destroyed, only changed. And, just for the sake of argument, let's say that a god created the universe. How do you know it's your Jesus god?
jackson... NO NO NO! it's "LOOKING FOR LUBE..."
Those statements are not proof, just Einstein's opinion.
sorry jatty - you evidently don't understand what PROOF is - it is REPEATABLE IRREFUTABLE EVIDENCE. Religion by its very nature is NEITHER - it is attempts at explanation of things which given the limited knowledge of CAVE MEN could NOT BE EXPLAINED. All following expansions of religion are again attempts to explain what they THINK they saw or experienced. trouble IS that the human explanation of experience is not only LIMITED, it is generally INACCURATE (based on memory) and NOT REPEATABLE. You stick with your mythical supreme entity... I'll just go on living my very short time on this planet as I choose...WITHOUT DOGMATIC CONSTRAINTS
So then Fork, if evidence is repeatable, irrefutable then what about the natural order of things, nature itself? Nature repeats and is irrefutable so nature, the natural order of things came from somewhere. As for dogmatic restraints, well, it looks like you are tightly bound by your yours.
Like I originally said, a few rousing rounds of musical chairs and they'll be out of there in four hours.
Stupid post... Troll...
You are a very angry person, aren't you, calling people names? Do you kiss your Jesus god with that mouth?
probably be 10 to 15 days before the dust settles and they find a new chief bu lls hitter. Only this time he probably won't be Herr Ubermeister"
I'm still trying to figure out how anyone can possibly read bible versus without giggling at the absurdity of it all.
Homy: The entire bible is God breathed. Know and understand the bible and you will understand God. It takes perception and insight. The bible interprets itself. Look it up and know the truth...
gawd dayum - IF you actually believe that I can understand how the RETHUGLICUN PARTY "chooses" its members.
TRUTH? Like the "truth of the great flood"?
WITHOUT ANY SUBSTANTIATION IN THE FOSSIL OR GEOLOGICAL RECORD??
Like the talking snake or the talking ASS?
Like a supposed "virgin" birth? (I would really like to know WHO schtupped "Mary" - not "what" - WHO)
And those are merely the TIP of the ICEBERG typical of judaeo christian islamic "religion"
(yes, ISLAM is in there as well - since that nutcase muhammud directly COPIED most of it from the 2 existing abrahamic religions)
ROFLMFAO (at YOU hey, but you're probably used to it by now...)
Sounds like its time for you to shed a few pounds forkie...MFAO...How much proof do you need...Watch a few utube videos about the flood...That will change your unbelieving mind. And your right I am used to it, nothing fazes me anymore. Sad really to see there are so many of you out there it doesn't take long to develop a thick skin. I will however give you credit for one thing. Mr. Mo and his followers will all burn in the lake of fire spoken of in Revelation. And animals talking, so I see you do read the bible. Well, Jesus said himself "with God all things are possible." And since you are not familiar with the power of the Holy Spirit then well I suppose maybe it was the stork that got Mary pregnant...LOL and Kapish
'god' is an idiotic idea promoted by immoral people to control and pacify the weak minded.
So glad I didn't say that..
Afraid of the boogeyman Warren?
Yes Defiantly
So, you openly disobey the boogeyman, warren (defiantly v. definitely)?
As Warren demonstrates, religion promotes fear and self preservation. But a moral person knows he could never be happy in "heaven" while others suffer in "hell". Keep fighting the good fight Lunatic. Great article BTW.
God is an ancient concept used as a tool to emotionally manipulate people for the purpose of empire building. Along the way, many people have from time to time had "unusual" experiences that they rushed to label spiritual or supernatural because they lacked the knowledge to define them otherwise. This is one of the reasons why for so many years, religions persecuted scientists and those who experimented with various forces of nature.Things are only spiritual or miraculous until a more scientific, rational, intelligent understanding occurs.Those who have been using the god concept to build empires, mega churches, etc, don't want to give up the best and oldest gig in town. But it is their end days, and people like Sadden are beginning to weep and gnash their teeth. Help them ease their transition instead of ridiculing them, for we all have lots to learn from this magnificent universe.
and aside from the animist religions THERE ARE NONE THAT DO NOT PUSH FOR MENTAL CONTROL OF ADHERENTS
(and the REAL driver is MONEY)
I've been posting for a few days here when these stories come up. I'm pleased to finally see this scandal-ridden institution get front page press here. That Liar for the Lord of the Catholic League must be working on the Sabbath to keep the Vatican scandals out of the news.
What I've learned is that lay Catholics (I've yet to come across a trained seminarian let alone a philosopher) will not provide a single example of what action the Catholic Church can take that would be a deal breaker for their continued membership. I've asked, and asked. I've given hideous scenarios. Of course there are current scenarios going on right now like the refusal by Catholic bishops to be transparent regarding the criminal cover-up (which has no parallel in scope than any other organization working with children on earth).
Not a single Catholic I've asked would agree that yes, under X, they would bid adieu and direct their charitable works elsewhere.
This is a tragic example of precisely what it means to have one's moral faculties surrendered to the power of someone else, or in this case, Rome. Those Catholics who also have the misfortune to be classified as examples of the Dunning-Kruger effect are likely lost forever to irrationality. But I used to be a practicing Catholic. I know escape is possible.
Fortunately Catholicism is not quite as evil as Islam. Catholics don't kill apostates anymore. Only threats are given, but no lethal actions. I feel sad for them but I have utter disdain for those nominal Catholics who know their Church is corrupt but choose to stay for their own comfort be it societal perks, family perks, or sheer laziness.
And that's about all I have to say for now. Faith is not above inspection, criticism or even ridicule. Never forget that those Catholics who ask you to observe their taboos in the public square are not asking for your respect, they are asking for your submission.
Ridicule their ridiculous ideas but have pity on the person for they are oftentimes a victim of their own geography, parental indoctrination, or well understood psychological fears of the unknown.
Have no pity on those who protect child molesters. They need to be in orange jumpsuits behind bars, not seeking asylum in the gardens of the puppet nation essentially created by fascist Mussolini in 1929 that is called the Vatican.
Nominal Catholics, shame on you for staying! Have you no morality?
An ironic thing---those that believe in God, and those that do not, have one huge similarity; they both have faith. Since God's existence cannot be proven, or dis-proven, any opinion is faith-based.
A rational person would simply say, "I do not know."
Curious. On what do you base your personal code of conduct upon?
Who taught you that analogy you are attempting to construct? Suddenly lack of faith means having faith? I am not a person of faith spike. If you want to talk about philosophical or mathematical axioms that's fine. But you aren't.
What you are doing is exactly what alcoholics do. They have a problem with drinking but they rationalize it by going to a bar and say, "look everyone drinks therefore I am normal." The problem is that not everyone drinks alcohol at a bar. Some drink Coke Zero.
I am a teetotaler when it comes to faith. I don't drink it. I don't accept implausible claims and I certainly don't give the time of day to claims without evidence. For the most part spike, I suspect you do that too. EXCEPT when it comes to Yahweh. When it comes to Yahweh, or the god of the century as the case may be, you don't make inquiries about the reality of deities with any reasonable expectations based on prior evidence.
Me being a person of no faith apparently makes you feel uncomfortable spike so you say to yourself, "oh he's lying, NOBODY can get through life without faith because I CAN'T".
Spike your claims are the same that addicts make. People of no faith do not need books to tell them molesting children is wrong. That much is clear. We atheists make up the SMALLEST percentage BY FAR of those behind bars. Christians are the largest percentage BY FAR. There is evidence out today in fact that spiritual faith may be correlated with a higher tendency toward criminality because the criminal has more ways to "justify" their evil, than someone who is of no faith.
People of faith are not freethinkers. That was the claim I was told many years ago that made me examine what it means to be a free thinker. It got beneath my skin. I am very grateful I escaped my indoctrination.
That is all atheists are saying, "I don't know" Atheism is not a positive assertion that there is not or can not be a god. All it means is "not a theist," that is without a specific belief in a particular god. Theists are making a claim, atheists are not.
As a reformed Christian, I find it interesting that your question seems to imply that without religion, it's not possible to muster up a personal code of conduct. Seeing as how the code of conduct proscribed by the church is routinely thrown out the window by it's leaders (and I'm not picking on Catholics here: there are closet homosexuals, child molesters, and embezzlers in every "faith"), I find it interesting that you even think that code of conduct matters. I would imagine, to the extent that you have a moral code, that it's based as much on common sense and shared cultural beliefs as anything.
The 10 commandments, if you leave out the silly ones that require allegience to god, are nothing more than common sense and designed to preserve a culture. Since man is animal, the smarter people in the room thousands of years ago invented religion to knock the animals into line. Because there was no Internet, different religions sprang up all over the world. They all do three things: proscribe a code of conduct, outline a theory for the afterlife, and set in place a mechanism to promote fear and collect tithes.
When the various religous followers finally ran into each other centuries later, they discovered that their doctrine necessarily didn't match up (since it was made up to begin with). Thus was born war.
You can keep your code of conduct, Spike. I'll stick with personal awareness.
Atheist,
You are full of crap, and just like to type a bunch of pseudo-intellectual BS. You cannot disprove the existence of God, period! Therefore, you can only BELIEVE he does not exist; that, is faith.
Leroy,
Wrong definition of atheist. You are defining an agnostic.
Agreed... Spike, good call.
It takes MORE faith to believe that EVERYTHING in the Universe is just random mistakes and that's how Humans came to being... MORE faith that we're just here, with no purpose...
As I've asked, "Before the Big Bang, before the Universe came into existance, what was there and who made it?"
That's not right Spike. You can't have your own dictionary. It's a bit rude of you to tell me what I supposedly believe! For brevity let me try what Steve Zara said:
"Atheists really don’t have faith. You can only have faith in something you believe in. Faith is usually considered to be something you have to work at: you have to work at belief in God even though you may have doubts. If you lose your faith and become an atheist then that effort ceases."
As far as the Big Bang, I have referred you to Lawrence Krauss' new book, "A Universe From Nothing." I am not a physicist, but I do know that your question may be a stupid question because if you think there was a Creator, then all I have to do is ask you, well who made the Creator? (Let alone how some religions claim to know that the Creator loves slavery!). Remember, just because you have the ability to ask a question doesn't make the question an intelligent one. I can ask you what is the color of your forgetfulness? That's a stupid question. But you are forgetful! Please look into Krauss' book if you are interested in the latest theories of origins. I find his reasoning compelling.
Sadden,
The problem you have is that you don't know enough about your limitations in knowledge to even know which questions are not rational ones. You have to educate yourself first to know just how much you don't know.
Atheist,
"That's not right Spike. You can't have your own dictionary..."
Not MY dictionary.
faith
synonyms: acceptance, allegiance, assent, assurance, belief, certainty, certitude, confidence, constancy, conviction, credence, credit, credulity, dependence, faithfulness, fealty, fidelity, hope, loyalty, reliance, stock, store, sureness, surety, troth, truth, truthfulness
antonyms: disbelief, distrust, doubt, misgiving, skepticism, suspicion
Spike, the definition of faith: Implicit belief without proof.
No synonyms or antonyms required.
and yet with all the corruption in congress we still stand behind them like a flock of sheep??
Ah, Atheist. Your daily slam against the Church.
I can give the the "lay person's" reason for staying with the Church.
"And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it" (Mt. 16:18
The other verse I will cite is from the Nicene Creed. "I look forward to the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come, Amen".
So in the first verse we are talking about the communio of the Catholic body. It is not about cathedrals, basilicas, popes and scandals. There have been grave sins committed, and those that committed them will be judged. However, Christ's call to Faith is a much stronger impetus for Catholics to continue their journey in the hopes of the Resurrection.
If I am wrong in my assumption of everlasting life, but attempt to walk in the way of Christ during my lifetime, no harm, no foul. Yet, If I am right what does that portend for you, who has no faith?
I can't prove that invisible pink unicorns don't exist, but that doesn't make them real.
The burden of proof is on people like you who make the assertion that your imaginary friend exists. So far none of you believers have ever provided any such proof. You haven't even bothered to submit a falsifiable hypothesis to test for the existence of your imaginary friend.
well, let's be more PRECISE - the concept of the supernatural enters into the equation. The trouble with "supernatural" is that it is IMPOSSIBLE to MEASURE - indeed, IF one accepts ONE part of the supernatural, one must ALSO except the concept of "Ghoulies and ghosties and long l;egged beasties and things that go BUMP in the night" as well as every tenet of FICTION and SCI-FI and EVERY POSSIBLE BIT SHARD or CONCEPT which can be invented by the MIND ON A HUMAN.
oh, and dock - that's called "Pascal's wager" - it is just as invalid now (LOGICALLY) as it was when it was postulated - go look at other's references to religion being a "control mechanism" YOU can live an die with your "faith" and I can live and die without "your version of "faith". One thing is CERTAIN - WE WILL BOTH WIND UP DEAD! (you seem to expect some deus ex machina to snatch you out of your grave - look around - see any empty graves lately?) Now there is NOTHING WRONG with trying to live a moral life or lifestyle - indeed, it is beneficial for "mankind in general" - but to ascribe that to "religion" as the driving factor shows a certain lack of "LOGIC". "Goodness" is for its own sake. Not because of some mythical "reward" after death.
An ironic thing---those that believe in Santa, and those that do not, have one huge similarity; they both have faith. Since Santa's existence cannot be proven, or dis-proven, any opinion is faith-based.
Maybe now you can understand how illogical (and silly) is your fallacious argument: proving a negative. It's been pointed out over and over again, including on this message board, but goddists constantly ignore it because they know it logically counteracts their fallacy.
Then you admit that believing in gods is irrational.
Another specious argument: if you don't believe in (a) god, then you must support killing, raping and stealing. Humans have evolved with sentient intelligence to rationally and logically determine positive codes of conduct. What's frightening, however, are goddists who state that without a god there can be no determination of morality. In other words, what they are saying is that the only reason why they don't kill, rape or steal is because their god tells them not to. What happens when their god changes its mind and tells them to? If someone needs a god to tell them right from wrong, that someone is potentially a very dangerous person. The ones who slammed airliners filled with terrified and brutalized innocent people into skyscrapers over a decade ago did so because their god told them to so that made it right and moral to them.
@put & Gerry
For one who "believes" logic and faith are two somewhat opposing views. You see faith as totally illogical, using fairytale comparisons. I see the logic in faith, and the existence in God, because I have several thousand years of biblical criticism to rely on; form, redaction, literary, historical, textual, canonical and rhetorical. Think of the real absurdity of considering this a man made conspiracy of such astronomical proportions. There would have to be people of different faiths, languages, and nationalities all conspiring to "make this up".
PS. I always ask "Atheist" this question and never get an answer. "What do you think happens to you after you die/" Are you just worm food? I really would like someone to answer that.
Jerry, it is my guess---yes, just a guess, but I believe it to be an educated guess---that those who slammed airplanes into buildings on 9/11/01 were dealt with leniently by God (If He exists; but that is a different question) because, horrible as their action was, they, having been brainwashed from infancy, truly believed they were doing God's will. I believe that if there is a God, those he goes after for this obscene deed will be those who sent those innocent kids to their doom while they (the leaders) stayed behind in safety and banged their wives in celebration.
It's no "conspiracy," not anymore than those who made up the religious beliefs of hindus, muslims, etc. It's a bunch of backwards people who couldn't understand the natural, scientific answers for the world around them so they made up silly gods to answer it. Sadly, after centuries, there are still people who think that a bunch of fairy tales are still true.
I'll answer. For many of us, we don't end up as worm food because of embalming. For those who aren't embalmed, they're worm food. For those who get cremated they're ground up bone. When you're dead, you're dead. You won't be playing harps, shoveling coal, haunting a house or coming back as a dachsund or Napolean. You're dead. And so are all your deceased loved ones. My condolences on their passing, but you'll never see them again. They have ceased to exist save for corpses that are now filled with chemicals, worms or were burned up. Does that answer it?
Catholic = Middle man, takes his cut off the top.,
nah - that's a rabbi - he works for "tips" Old joke - a minister, a priest and a rabbi were talking finance. The priest said - we take 10% and send it to the holy see and the rest is for our determination. The minister said - we send 10% to the synod and the rest is for our determination. The rabbi said - we take what we collect and pout it on a large blanket. 8 members of our congregation then toss the money on the blanket into the air. - God takes what he wants and the rest is for our use.
For people who claim no allegiance to the Catholic (or any other faith), an amazing amount of interest is shown in these blogs. Interpret that as you will, as will I.
Atheists blog on articles about religion because we believe that god belief is damaging. God belief is divisive, it pits groups of people against each other, fuels wars, and allows people to commit horrible atrocities against their fellow man with a clear conscience. This whole idea that death is not the end is not only ludicrous nonsense and childish, wishful thinking, it's dangerous. It devalues the life that we do have. It is this idea, after all, which motivates suicide bombers. The rape of children and the coverup by the catholic church is a perfect example of the evil of religious dogma.
Exactly leroy!
And yet, Leroy, you'd call peopel AFRICAN-Americans, or any other way to be divisive, as far as rape.
You'd call out ONLY the Chatholic Church about rape of children, but don't care the the muslim faith encurages rape of young girls.
You hate because you asked God for a pony or hot wheels car when you were a child, and you've never resolved your hate.
Get over it...
leroy, don't you just love being told to shut up in a public forum for simply expressing your thoughts? Aren't you thankful it isn't the past when the Catholic Church simply had those they didn't like murdered? Now all they can do is yell shut up you're getting sand in our vagynas! lulz
Lol, yes Atheist, I'm sure Sadden longs for the good 'ol days when guys like him were allowed to torture people to death if they disagreed with him!
If the Catholic cult hadn't been covering up the rape of children and hadn't been spending millions to impose its sharia laws on everyone by restricting the legal rights of gays and interfering with women's health care, no one would really give a crap about your silly cult.
is this a good time to point out that RELIGION IS THE OPIUM OF THE MASSES
placebo like drugs for those incapable of affording the real thing
Well, that convinced me to believe in your hobgoblin. I want to accept it into my life. I want to appease, through magical rituats, a spook that is three-headed, turned itself into a pigeon to impregnate a virgin so it could be its own son and born as a magic baby and then end up getting stapled to a stick and return three days later as a zombie and get sucked up to a mythical place above the clouds where it sentences good people to eternal torture because they wouldn't appease it. Up, you convinced me. That all sound reasonable and rational.
And you're right. No goblin ever magically gave anyone a pony or Hot Wheels cars. None also ever brought people back from the dead as zombies or cured them of their diseases or performed witchcraft to turn stale bread and cheap hootch into its body and blood to be consumed in a sickening ritual of cannibalism.
Get over it.
The over-centralization of church authority is destroying the institution. I could see a time ahead where the Vatican will be phased out, and the RC church will go back to its roots....decentralized gatherings of people trying to figure out what causes deserve their loyalty. Modern day Pauls will hit the road to spread bold, new thoughts. This is the price of relevance in a fast-paced, globally-interconnected world.
Centralization is probably what enabled Christianity to thrive in the early days. The insistence on a single dogma and an intolerance of deviations kept the faith from splitting into tiny, multiple sects. If there is no Vatican, there is no Catholic Church. The individual churches might as well become protestant.
Does anyone really give a fu*king damn about these murdering, child raping, mother fu*kers. If there is a God, he sure isn't on the side of these evil corrupt cock suckers.
And yet you won't speak out against the Muslim religion that teaches the rape of young girls...
nice...
Sadden
Why does the Catholic Church Leadership partner with Muslims at the United Nations? They are always trying to pass blasphemy laws. Do you live under a rock?
You complain that we on this forum addressing a specifically Catholic scandal don't speak of other Religious Scandals? You hypocrite! Your own Church PARTNERS with Muslim Leaders who, as you say, teach that raping girls is ok.
You really aren't very good at this are you! Congrats, you are now going on ignore for posting one of the most asinine comments I've read all week! I will no longer waste my time with you.
How do you know that Boozer doesn't speak out against Islam? This news article is about the election of a Pope, so why would the behavior of Muslims be addressed? You come across as very, very defensive, Sadden.
There's an arabic saying - "Women for duty, boys for pleasure,and a melon for delight."
beats me how the melon got into a sexual discussion... but whatever
MY suggested way of selecting a pope is to line up the contestants in front of a single blindfolded rifleman. The last one standing is the chosen one ..*by gods will
No, warren.
How about rock, paper, scissors? Not as messy.
You can't even be considered for La poopa unless you have molested at least 10 boys
....or covered up the rape of tens of thousands of children.
No matter what happens, Pope goes the weasel.
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahl.....hahahahaha
No value... and marked as so...
well, sadden - you got collapsed - apparently not many "think" (using the term VERY LIGHTLY) like you do...
Pope Pius XIII by May 13, 2013!!! Yea!!!
From George.Carlin. do you believe in god? answer no boom you are dead question do you believe in god?? yes do you believe in my god ? no boom dead my god has a bigger d then yours
Do you believe in God?
[Yes]
Do you believe God can do all things?
[Yes]
Can God make a rock so big he can't lift it?
[?????]
Just Me-1436687
Google: Pascal's Wager for the answer.
Pascal's Wager is a rather moronic fallacy. And since Pascal believed in the wrong imaginary sky wizard, Quetzalcoatl was quite displeased with him.
QUOTE: "cut off from the world by an oath of secrecy and doors that close with a firm and final thud."
Sounds like business as usual for the Catholic Church. Gotta admire being cut off from the world for 500 years...
There is nothing more insignificant than what that collection of old perverts is doing in Rome. Totsally meaningless except unto themselves.
THERE Is..something More SIGNIFICANT..
THE
DAILY
PROGRESSIVE
PERVERTS
FOUND
ON
OBAMMY
NANNY'S
MSNBC
B.U.L.L.SHYTTE
DROOL
FOR
LOONEY
LEFT
WING
LIBERALS..
The
CREAM
OF
COMMIE
KRAPP...
aliblahblah, your father jacked off into a flower pot and raised a blooming idiot.
LITTLE
LEFT
WING
SUSIE
SOROS..
SEE...
SHE
BLEW
ALL
THE
BIG
BALOONIES...
IN
HER
MARXIST
MARTYRS
DAY
PARADE..
CHAPPED..
LIBERAL
LIPS
COMMENT COLLAPSED
BY
OBAMMY
NANNY'S
SCARED...
THREATENED
COMMOONITY..
WHY...IS
MSNBC
SO
THREATENED..By
WORDS..?
TYPICAL
SHYYTE
HEAD MARXISTS....? YES
Does anyone really care about this crap? These guys look like total idiots in their stupid robes and red slippers. Talk about creepy. I say put em on trial for child molestation and corruption. What a bunch of horse sh*t. If they actually believed anything they'd start cleaning house and getting rid of the criminals. Obviously they're not the least bit concerned. God thinks they're cool though.
I see your point. But have you seen the Mormon Temple in Salt Lake City? Now that's creepy! Looks like the Temple of Doom. The haunters of that place do dress better though.
I, for one, care. I'm atheist, but the Catholic Church is a significant force in the world -- just consider how often it attempts to interject itself in legislative deliberations. Understanding how its leaders are selected (and why) is important. Plus, this is history being made.
So if I read this right. They vote then vote again and vote again and again, never talking about who they think should be Pope or anything? Just vote, vote, vote ,vote and then take a smoke break eat some food and vote some more. The whole thing sounds really stupid.
BREAKING NEWS..
OBAMA...Offers to replace the Pope..
In carefully worded envoy message ..
Obama has Offered to replace the POPE...with New Progressive Vision for Catholics..
Out with Old ..in with New..
OBAMA stated,.. his 2nd,..part time Job ..would in no way..Interfere..with His GOLF..
How long did it take you to become the stupidest lizard in the desert?
Another OBAMIAN
KRAPP
EATER...
Threatened...by own Ego...
Hey ali.. did you make it past the third grade of were you home schooled?
AN OBAMA..TOOL..?
WHICH..APPENDAGE...?
It is sad that some people are so obsessed with Obama that they must mention his name in EVERY discussion. You know, it sounds like hero worship to me.