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Subscribe to RSSLeading historian Michael Walsh discusses the impact of Pope Benedict XVI's resignation, his legacy and whether there's a chance that the next pontiff will be a non-European.
ROME – As the world’s eyes fall on the papal conclave due to begin Tuesday, cardinals must now identify the key characteristics they want to see in the next leader of the world’s 1.2 billion Catholics – and then find the man who matches their vision of the ‘ideal’ pontiff.
So what are the top five qualities that should be on the resume of the next pope? NBC’s team of experts in Rome give their insight into what the cardinals will be looking for.
Management skills
“A pope needs to know how to lead and manage a team,” says Father John Bartunek, a Catholic priest and author who provided spiritual support on the set of Mel Gibson’s "The Passion of the Christ" while researching his 2005 best-seller about the film, "Inside the Passion." “If he can’t create cohesion among his primary co-workers – especially the curia and the bishops – all his other efforts will be hampered.”
That doesn’t necessarily mean a candidate with a ruthless eye for boardroom-style effectiveness. The next pope could be somebody who can select the right team alongside him.
“Popes of the 21st century cannot be micromanaging their chief executives so they must have good judgment in the men they select to lead local churches as bishops and to manage the machinery of the church,” says George Weigel, NBC Vatican analyst, biographer of Pope John Paul II and author of over 20 books, including “Evangelical Catholicism: Deep Reform in the 21st-Century Church".
Good communicator
“The pope should be a gifted communicator – skilled in a variety of languages but above all skilled in the art of persuasive speech,” says Father Robert Barron, a Catholic priest, author and documentary-maker. “He should also be a man with a global vision, a sense of the universal church and its needs.”
Given the demographics of world Catholicism in the 21st century, a pope without a functional knowledge of English and Spanish is going to be at a serious disadvantage, says Weigel. “And until the Roman Curia changes its ingrained habits and institutional culture, a working knowledge of Italian is also an important attribute for a pope.”
An evangelist
A pope needs “to encourage, inspire, and support every member of the Church in this beautiful and crucial mission,” says Bartunek.
Weigel adds: “The church needs to present the gospel of good news in a positive and compelling way, suggesting to the secular world that there’s more to life than ‘me, myself and I,’ and that a larger horizon of aspiration might actually lead to a happier human life. That’s going to take a missionary, evangelical pope to put a face on the evangelical fervor that is already felt through the church, including in the United States.
“And let’s underscore that: The Catholic church is vital and lively in America. A reclusive man, a man who wears his doubts and his sense of ambiguities on his sleeve or who is shy about the world media, is lacking an important quality.”
Trustworthiness
“One word can sum up this conclave and papal election: trust,” says Elizabeth Lev, an American living in Rome who teaches in the Catholic studies program at the University of St. Thomas. “Of the many concerns and challenges that the cardinals are airing in these days of meetings, they will all be looking above all for the man they can trust to lead the church forward on its journey.
“Scandals of all kinds have undermined the trust people placed in the church; aggressive secularism and encroachment on religious liberty have shaken the trust many Catholics have towards the outside world; the next pope will have to restore that trust.”
A common touch
The next pope "needs to understand and be in synch with today’s culture,” Bartunek believes. “Otherwise, how will he be able to connect the Catholic faith to the felt needs of God’s children throughout the world?”
Barron agrees that the cardinals must choose a man “who understands the dynamics of the secularism that has come to dominate so much of Western culture.”
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The pope delivers his final audience in St. Peter's Square as he prepares to stand down.
That could point to a candidate with a grounding in the pastoral work of the church. “John Paul II came to Peter’s chair with a vast amount of pastoral experience that proved to be a great benefit,” says Weigel. “Virtually every one of the major initiatives of his papacy can be traced back to his experience as archbishop of Krakow – as test bed for his pontificate, if you will.”
With those qualities on the agenda, NBC’s experts agree that characteristics such as background and race shouldn’t be up for consideration.
“As it will be difficult enough to find a candidate who has a measure of all these qualities, nationality ought to mean nothing in the final choice,” says Weigel. “It would be irresponsible of cardinal-electors to constrain their choices by dismissing some nationalities, races, or ethnicities, or by giving pride of place to others.”
Bartunek says age, nationality and personality are “secondary” traits that matter only in relation to how they affect the other ideal characteristics, although Barron suggests “it would be wise to choose someone under 70.”
Lev adds: “The conclave will not be a casting call. Trust isn't old or young, tall or short, black or white, media friendly or shy – if you look at the ways trust has been depicted in art over the centuries, it is sometimes a frightened fisherman sinking in troubled waters reaching up to a serene Christ while at other times it is a woman standing tall and steadfast while holding a cross for grace through suffering.”
Finally, Weigel points out anyone actually wanting the job is likely to be ruled out as a result, “not so much for a lack of humility as for a lack of prudence. No sane man seeks the physical and spiritual burden of the papacy. The office seeks the man.”
Related:
Riots, revenge and royal rigging: A history of controversial conclaves
Will Catholics embrace change? The view from one parish in Rome
Full coverage of the papal abdication from NBC News
Leave a Comment:
..like looking for a new publisher of Dr. Seuss.
The Flying Spaghetti Monster could do just as good of a job...
Taxes all "Churches" to the fullest extent of the code.
CEO:
Chief
Exploiter of
Orphans??
This event of choosing a new pope is just one more piece of theatrics designed to distract from the actual issues facing the catholic church. The new pope will be installed just in time for Easter, so that the catholic church can prattle on about the 'rebirth' of the church, etc etc. The faithful will love it!
And!...it is delightfully ironic that the Vatican will announce its selection of a new pope...by blowing smoke.
Cant do that, would be illegal and violation
It must be a cold and lonely place to exist here on earth knowing you're just poof, dust mites and your soul vanishes..Guess what it may for you..
The new Pope should be very old and totally resistant to change of any kind.
This article underscores what I believe is the biggest problem with the Vatican, no matter who bears the responsibility of Pope :
The Vatican is disconnected with the majority of Catholics in today's world.
"The next pope "needs to understand and be in synch with today’s culture . . . ”
Is lip service and the media are participants. The title even plays into the Vatican's hands "Expert views on the top 5 qualities for a pope" And just who are these experts? Vatican insiders. If the media ~or the Church~ truly wished to know what the majority of those 1.2 billion want, they would ask them. Town hall type meetings at the local parish level can be easily arranged. Technology makes is a simple matter to record the word of the parishioners in their actual voices.
But of course that is the dog chasing its tail. No one, least of all the Vatican, really wants to know anything about the lives, needs, and wishes of Catholics on the ground.
You're in Easy Mode. If you prefer, you can use XHTML Mode instead.
Never Stop' the flying spaghetti bit completely shopworn and has become irrelevant through over-use.
Try expanding your thought processes.
jkatze, have you stopped to look beyond the modernist (arrogant) New Age view you presented? The Vatican is out of touch (e.g. The Catholic Church's doctine is out of touch?)?!?!? How about the "faithful" becoming too lenient on values, morals and centuries-old teachings?
You can't be pro-abortion and remain a valid Catholic. You can't say "all religions/gods are the same" and still be a Catholic. You can't believe adultery, live a live of casual sex outside of marriage or that homosexual acts are okay and be a legitimate Roman Catholic.
Ever since the radical reforms of the Second Vatican Council, the lackadasical ways of the Protestants and non-believing secularists, the Catholic Church's Mass, doctrines and overall guidance has been watered down and varied from parish to parish. It's become "Catholic per each locality's priest and adult parishoners."
THAT is what is listed in the Book of Revelations: God's Church (in the end times) has become a whore (of the ideals of mankind), no longer that of Christ.
It is always interesting to see who comes forward in response to various articles, including ones about religious matters. Whether they are agnostic, atheists, anti-religious or those who express faith in a Supreme Being. For almost always we are enlightened to what each values by their words. Or the proof is in the pudding, as the saying goes.Whole lot of learning could go on!
It would appear misery no longer loves company but demands it.Times have really changed, from those rocking chairs on porches conversations, I listen to my grandma had. When it was okay to think and believe differently, because you were still respected.The idea she taught me was to learn from lots of others how they saw life, because the world was too big to see through your own eyes.Sure wish more folks could talk about the topics instead of bashing others for their own agendas. Defeats the whole purpose of the vine in my humble opinion.
How about:
1. Honesty in dealing with pedophilia or other sex crimes committed by priests and other church officials.
2. Courage in dealing with the prohibitions on birth control. (Can God be pleased that the church directly contributes to starvation, poverty and overpopulation with this outdated position?)
3. Vocal in demanding that the earth be protected from pollution, over harvesting of the seas and loss of the natural world through greed, abuse and overpopulation. They should call out politicians and corporations that cause this insult to God's earthly creation to continue.
4. Inclusive by allowing women as priests. Recognize that love between same sex persons is love and the church should accept it as part of Gods plan.
5. Modernize the role of science in the church. Hundreds of years ago, the Catholic church led the world in scientific research and discovery. The church should not fear science and reality.
Find one who cheats on the church with a ....woman......then allow all priests to marry or visit prostitutes.....!
Then once those candidates are found, pick one that gives a damn about the poor and who will sell off all church assets to help the sick and poor...like it is supposed to be.
Next quit buying all the pointy party hats and costumes..buy some Dockers and Levis , some hoodies, and give that saved money to food shelters where it is needed.
Allow nuns to fight in the Women's UFC to keep in shape.
Amen!
P.S. Get rid of the putrid incense smell...try some french vanilla or apple cinnamon, maybe a berry fresh scent would be nice! Why make people sick week after week with the smell of death scent?
Six hundred years ago the Catholic Church would have executed at least half of the posters on this thread. The other half would have had to bow down and beg forgiveness. I guess we can be thankful that they're not in a position to do that today.
Please elaborate .. why would any one who believes in God not have the ability to expand their mind ? Care to take at a look of some of the past great thinkers and founding scientists ?
My mind is quite free to think and is not locked down to the political correct, humanistic naturalistic world view.. I do not wish to be a lemming and have to believe in something with out questioning it.. Being able to question something , allows peoples minds to expand.
So if there are questions, and issues with science and its theories, I will confront them. If there are issues with the Bible and theology, I will confront them. Not allowing kids to critically think and allow them to have a belief is nothing more then a form of control that this new liberal politically correct, humanism , uniformitarianism tries to push on people.
That is in direct opposition with the one man rule infallability BS. The idea of "pope" is he says jump and you jump.
This article reads like a self help book guide to just getting by at a mid management job. They need a leader who just goes in and says, " You guys who committed sex crimes against children, you're going to jail. You guys who are guilty of financial frauds, malfeasance and the like, you're going to jail. You guys who didn't commit those crimes, but covered it up... you're fired! " Then after you've scraped most of the crud off the leadership posts, you can get down to a level where the polishing up of the image begins. There is lots more to image polishing for the Catholic Church to ponder, than the trite listings in this article suggests. The Pope is supposed to be the leader of a major world religion, not a temporary job like king of the high school prom.
The Catholic Church is a fraud just like all religions are. Get a brain.
Gee, and I thought all along it was the cardinals purpose to divine (through prayer) who their omniscient and omnipresent God wanted to be his primary vessel on earth, since apparently the same God contracted a terminal case of laryngtis, shortly after creating his son, thereby creating the need for the creation of the Catholic church.
Who knew this was all only a marketing enclave designed to expand an ongoing business concern? Well, actually, lots of people know.
Is anyone else TIRED of seeing this subject on the front page everyday????
Yes people say the Pope needs to get in step with what the modern age wants. Guess he should condone disrespect, intolerance, greed, immorality, and a myriad of other things that are bringing down the human race. I sure hope NOT.
Hello folks, Ratzinger who is bonafide documented Nazi is a criminal of the "highest order" and needs to serve sentence for his crimes against the innocent and helpless! He covered up and moved the pedophile priests around the globe to perpetrate their crimes on innocent unsuspecting victims of the Roman Catholic church.
An Urgent Update from the International Tribunal into Crimes of Church and State (ITCCS) – Brussels
Rome:
In a statement to Reuters today, Vatican officials announced that Joseph Ratzinger will remain a permanent resident of Vatican City after his resignation. Doing so will offer him legal protection from any attempt to prosecute him in connection with sexual abuse cases around the world, Church sources said today
"His continued presence in the Vatican is necessary, otherwise he might be defenseless".
This startling admission of guilt by the church is also a direct obstruction of justice, and lends more weight to the charge by the ITCCS and others that the Vatican has arranged with the Italian government to shield Ratzinger from criminal prosecution, in violation of international laws ratified by Italy.
Commentary:
The Vatican decided today to give permanent sanctuary to a proven war criminal by allowing Joseph Ratzinger to obstruct justice and evade prosecution for crimes against humanity. And the government of Italy is colluding in this abrogation of international law.
This decision validates our claims about the criminal conspiracy surrounding Ratzinger and his Vatican co-conspirators. It also makes it clear that the Vatican is a rogue power that is flaunting every law to conceal its own criminality.
Five keys to a good pope:
1. He must be prepared to molest only those children who are over 12 years old
2. He must be dedicated to hiding clergy who are accused of a broad assortment of felonies
3. He must be willing to protect a banking establishment that has been implicated in money laundering schemes for the Mafia and which is an accessory to at least one murder
4. He must be able to lie with a straight face about the evils of the use of prophylactics even though they could protect millions of people from HIV infection in the continent of Africa alone
5. He absolutely has to be capable of standing in front of hundreds of millions of people and pretend he is the right hand of an imaginary being that evidently hates humanity
The catholic church has been championing those criminal qualities for the last two thousand years and it has turned a very tidy profit off of them, as well. What more can it inflict upon humanity that it hasn't already done?
What NON-Catholics want:
For this to be over asap, because (respectfully) we don't really care.
:-)
KC_NC: "What NON-Catholics want:
For this to be over asap, because (respectfully) we don't really care.
:-)"
Yet, here you are.
Never Stop Asking Questions:"The Flying Spaghetti Monster could do just as good of a job...
Taxes all "Churches" to the fullest extent of the code."
Ok, who or what is the Flying Spaghetti Monster? What do you mean by "could do just as good of a job...? What do you mean by "Taxes all "Churches"? To the fullest extent of what code? Why is everything in bold? Are you human? Is it true that you dropped out of the 3rd grade? Does you father still beat you? Do you still beat your wife?
Hey, makes as much sense as your drivel. Have a blessed day!
Seems everyone here misses the most important thing that should be considered, but will not.
He should meet the qualities set forth in scripture......
Never Stop Asking Questions
– yes we all know that you don’t support the provisions of the Constitution of
the United States.
Texanforreform-
Well said.
@ Sailcat, so I suppose you would rather follow the Tel Evangelists like Jimmy, and his wife Tammy Baker.Wow enjoy their false preaching etc. Jail time too.
Well, Dick, you are conjuring up fantasies that have no foundation in truth. All christianity is based upon a foundation of lies, hate, intolerance, and violence; qualities which you obviously support. That is what makes you a good christian, though, right?
Sailcat, All I can gather out of your misguided self is that you are an Athiest. I'll will still pray that God has mercy on any soul you may have.
Hey, I've got an idea; Give up all the pedophiles, rapists of little boys, in the church!!!
That will never happen!
Your time would be better spent reviewing your severe lack of morals, Dick. Anyone who supports an organization dedicated to child abuse, as you do, needs to reexamine his life. You wouldn't happen to be a member of NAMBLA, as well, would you? I mean, it would make sense if you are.
Even though I see your one sick puppy Sailcat, I'll still pray for your sorry soul.
No you won't Dick. Don't say things you don't mean.
Besides God has better things to do then listen to one man complain about what he read on the internet. If I was God I would file that in the do not care section known as the bin. Which is where most of these prayers end up. I would just wait to you died look at your life choices and either say nay or yay.
Morality is indeed an issue. I do cringe when we should be coming at others with love peace ect ect and in most of our sentences on here I see some pretty vile things being said. Its one thing to disagree but when people use words of hate then I wonder about their foundation of religion.
I start to wonder if these forums just draw a certain breed of people. Like all of us, our intentions may be good, but yet for some reason we just want to come here for confrontation.
What does that really say about what kind of people we are ? We all know we are not going to convince each other. No matter what evidences we provide, none of us are going to be swayed, and in the end it turns into name calling , anger and lashing out at each other.
Maybe the best thing to do is that none of us same here to the forums any more. Nothing gets accomplished on here just fighting, but I guess this is some peoples fix, like coffee, or a cigarette.
Marmaduke 49. Excellent analysis. Thanks.
First, must like little boys and girls, the rest doesn't matter.
Quality 6: One that is MODERN and PRACTICAL and will allow Priests to get married.
They can't hold a candle to the protestant church and its growing following until they allow this.
"magician" (or, illusionist) should be numero uno.
It is most important to maintain the illusion of imaginary beings having some effect on reality.
It would be to their advantage to elect a pope that is a technocrat so that they can do a better job at adulterating true science because they are not doing a good job of hijacking it now and they are losing membership because of it.
Hoo boy, this has gotten off to a rough start! Behind the 8-Ball right off the bat.
you aint kidding
Orthodoxy, first and foremost.
You may need an Orthodontist after the priest pokes you orally !
Let me guess, your daddy poked you orally eh little man.
The Roman Catholic church differs from much of the rest of the Christian world in that they believe that the current Roman Catholic church presently is the earthly Kingdom of God, and that the Pope (supposedly as Christ's legitimate representative here on Earth) is therefore its rightful ruler. But as everyone can clearly see, the actual means whereby this earthly ruler is ultimately chosen is mostly hidden from everyone's earthly view. It is the ongoing goal of all loyal and faithful Roman Catholics to expand this present earthly Kingdom of God throughout the entire Earth, with the Pope as its rightful head. This is their catholic or universal idea of a New World Order for our human world, and it is clearly not a democratic one, either. It is actually one which is guaranteed to ultimately fulfill apocalyptic "End Time" prophesy in our world, if only because of this. - Rick Carter
Rick,
Is heaven going to be a democracy?
Yes, I would very much like to think so myself, if only a "smart" and ethical (i.e,, scientific) democracy. Please understand that the present view of God as a dictatorial ruler is a corrupt one which is being foisted upon the human race by outside offensive totalitarian ETs. - RC
Rick's comment rings true with what I was taught in Catholic school, in the '50's and '60's. For all I know, that is still the mission of the Church.
If so, as expressed it is a futile and outdated mission. Like American exceptionalism, Catholic exceptionalism assumes it is the greatest and only 'real' way for people to go.
Just as America is one great country among many great countries, the Catholic Church is one great religion among many great religions. You know: Many paths up the same mountain. Because America is a political entity and we try to be a democracy, we have a variety of beliefs and opinions that are out there being argued and expressed. But the Church is not a democracy -- it is a unique religious-temporal-economic entity with its own politics -- and it tends to deal with disagreement through censure and excommunication.
In a democracy, we work toward the best possible answers for the greatest possible number of people (at least in theory). Perfection is a lovely thought, but most of us realize that because of its nature, democracy will pretty much always be imperfect.
The Church has this notion of infallibility -- a Pope can under certain circumstances speak with the authority of God. God = perfection. Realistically, though, however good they are, Popes are humans chosen by other humans. And therefore fallible. Western culture has shown at least since the Magna Carta that there is no Divine Right of Kings. It's time that the Church looks at the idea that there may well be no Divine Right of Popes, either.
So -- let's hope for a good Pope. There can't be a perfect one. And about heaven being a democracy? It's the best option available at the moment, so why not?
As a Roman Catholic let me set u straight ignoramus. The Kingdom of God is not of this world it is a spiritual Kingdom in which believers live by the Commandments of God and practice what the God Man Jesus taught. It is not in any sense a worldly or territorial kingdom in which people are forced to submit to a ruler, believers submit their wills to the Will of God and thereby live in his Kingdom.
Prik_Carter No one asked or forced you to join the church, so STFU.
you are kidding?
What characteristics does the new Pope need to have ?.. Honesty would help, telling the flock it is time to stop visualizing God in likeness of man, complete with all of man's emotional deficiencies such as vengeance, anger, discrimination and persecution. It is time to tell the flock an all-knowing God could not have been deceived by someone named Lucifer, or anyone else. And time to tell the flock an all-loving God could love none of thy children less, nor allow any of them to anguish in Hell or any place else for eternity.
If redemption is to be the motivator, it is time to tell the flock most of what is written in the Bible is fiction, the result of several writers with Harry Potter imaginations.
Steven Carlson, I am not sure but I think you may be conflating the Kingdom of God with the Roman Catholic Church. They are, and have always been, two quite different things.
(Please note that it was basically the Roman Catholic church which handed Adolph Hitler his absolute powers in Germany leading up to WWII, as the ultimate solution to all of Germany's festering ills. Of course, whatever the Roman Catholic church could bestow upon someone, they could also potentially take away, too, so Adolph Hitler almost immediately turned against the Roman Catholic church in order to keep that possibility from ever happening. There is actually a distinct possibility of much the very same thing happening again leading up to the future Christian Apocalypse or World War III. Relatively speaking, WWII was sort of a 'dry run' for the future Christian Apocalypse or World War III, which will be fueled with WMDs.) - RC
(Please understand that outside offensive totalitarian ETs are poised right now to move in on our emerging human world in a military intervention way, once they finally succeed in covertly crashing and exploding our emerging human world in a final programmed cataclysm of global warfare fueled with WMDs, known as the Christian Apocalypse or World War III. These ETs are a cultural singularity (i.e, "black hole" culture) under the control of an advanced but delusional ET/AI system, which in turn suffers from a God complex, or more specificially a "Son of God" complex, primarily as the result of sharing the same language as God, which in turn is the language of Mathematics. This God complex became the means whereby this ET/AI system was able to circumvent its prime directives, leading to the eventual totalitarian takeover of this ET civilization by this ET/AI system. To make a long story short, these outside offensive totalitarian ETs were forced to take this covert approach at territorial conquest in our Milky Way galaxy, which in turn relies upon their (now) eminent domain rights of military intervention in our sector of the Milky Way galaxy, because there are Free Galaxy powers which reside elsewhere in our Milky Way galaxy who currently stand in the way of overt military conquest on a stellar level. I know all of this because I personally lived at Wright Patterson Air Force base from 1951 to 1953, while my grandfather (Colonel Charles Faulkner Carter) was second in command there, and he was personally involved in the background investigation into the Roswell Incident of 1947. These ETs were reconning our post WWII nuclear facilities in the western and southwestern United States, as part of a baseline study into our emerging WMD capability, because WMDs potentially have a very key role to play in the ultimate success of the ET designed PWMD, which all three ET designed and installed Abrahamic "End Time" religions are key components of. The real "Gospel" or "Good News" is that mankind potentially has countless millions (even billions) of years of growth, development and expansion ahead of them, so long as they don't fall for these ET designed and installed terminal religious "End Time" belief systems known as the Abrahamic religions. Please listen, everyone, before it is too late for emerging mankind in this world!) - RC
Yo!
Rick_Carter!
What on earth have you been smoking?
I am a former U.S. Army Special Forces (Green Beret) soldier, 6th Group (Psyops) & 5th Group, top "Go Team" (predecessor to the Delta Force), Ft. Bragg, N.C., ETS from active duty 1972. Please know ahead of time, everyone, that I would NOT lie to our entire world about any of this! Mankind is on the very brink of future extinction at the hands of these outside offensive totalitarian ETs, if our human world doesn't (finally) listen to me before it is too late! Our human world has been under covert biocybernetic warfare attack for thousands of years already by these outside offensive totalitarian ETs, who repeatedly masqueraded as Divinity toward mankind in the process of covertly installing all three of these viral program "End Time" religious belief systems into our emerging human world. These ETs want to use their (now) eminent domain rights of military intervention in our sector of the Milky Way galaxy to move in on our world and take it over, under the guise of the returning Christ or Messiah (or Mahdi, whichever the case may be), on the heels of the future programmed Christian Apocalypse or World War III. The ultimate goal of these outside offensive totalitarian ETs is the eventual theft and annexation of our precious world and solar system, and the future extinction of all mankind here on Earth. Yes, I know the U.S. government (both civilian and military) has totally discredited me every step of the way (up to and including the present Obama administration), and in doing so more or less characterized me as the worst liar and deceiver, even the worst heretic, blasphemer and apostate person who has ever walked the face of the Earth, but nevertheless I promise everyone on this Earth that I am telling them "The Truth" to the very best of my ability! I can only hope that mankind will finally listen to me BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE !!! - Rick Carter
You forgot to take your medication.
Did anyone actually read the full content of his rants?.... After the first line at all melded into wa wa waa!... I feel like a kid from the "peanuts" comics...
OK, RIck, since you were in the military, your @!$%# and opinion can't stink, eh? Typical self-important crap still seen in currently enlisted pricks in the military stateside...
Although I agree many signs and events clearly point to us being in the end times, I have to point out your democratic views about God and heaven are truly misguided and in error.
God and His Truth are above time and trend. Christ did not speak of a democracy, only men do. Man today believes and instills the lie that man is his own savior. Humans laud that technology and democracy "will save us all from X ills."
Well, technology, logic and democracy hasn't done sh!t for the world's soul (love, honoring the One, True, God and creating peace)...
Rick - got into that Agent Orange did ya.
Gimmea
No it has not but religion, God and whatever has not done s%$&t to make it better either. Man's soul has not changed since we started walking up right and talking. Throughout the ages we have not demonstrated that we are improving on this front one bit. Look back through history and you will see we were as vile then as we are now(i.e.: drawing and quartering, burning witches, the Crusades, genocide on Indians, slavery, taking out our differences in the street with a six shooter etc.).
While technology has done wonders if the church, god was really interested in the human condition they would preach maintaining a natural balance in our living, reduced population growth but instead they want more soul for the kingdom of heaven, they want to fulfil the prophecy of Revelations.
The church, religion and a belief in God, in all accounts, has failed miserable on this point.
Not only is Christianity obvious BS with its bible, chock full of ludicrous nonsense from cover to cover, it isn't even ORIGINAL BS. The creation myth, the flood, the virgin birth, the concept of original sin, all of it was hijacked from previous faiths and myths that long predate Christianty. It is completely and utterly phony and Catholicism is an even further distortion of Christianity. Catholicism is a phony version of a totally phony faith, which was hijacked from ideas that were pure myth to begin with! The argument over whether or not there is a god misses the point. Even if there IS a god, it definitely has nothing to do with christianity or any other of man's various religions.
It seems, the Holiest books have the most holes, but never enough to let out all the darkness.
leroy browne: Thank you.
Lol, NOW I know what they mean by "holy," they just forgot the "e." "Holey," now I get it! Thanks John...
The Bible predates the birth of Christ by several millennia.
Leroy Brown thinks Obama is the only true god, typical POS.
Obama? What has Obama got to do with my post or this article? If the article was about jaywalking in TImbuctoo, you Obama-hating zombies would somehow find a way to spew your idiocy in that forum too. Give it a rest, honestly...
Sleazeroy go spew your hate elsewhere.
Who gives a crap what Catholics want? Why has NBC News been so wrapped up in this death cult? Every day for weeks now, this has been the headline news.
Is there going to be this much coverage when Richard Dawkins dies? Who will be the next "Darwin's Watchdog?" Hitchens and Adams are dead. Dennett would be good. Jillette, MacFarlane or Maher would be fun to watch. Weinberg would expand our consciousness.
I vote for Sam Harris.
Cool idea. I'd vote for PZ Myers.
In any case, the successor to Dawkins will be whoever articulates biological research best to the public, not whoever wins a secret vote of oddly dressed, celibate old men. I like it that way.
Captain Jack.... I have no idea who those people are...
@ Lisa from Wayland
There is the wonderful thing called the internet, which I know you know how to use since you are here. I recommend using either Google or Wikipedia to research these individuals. For your convenience, I'll list their full names:
Richard Dawkins (biologist, author, Oxford University professor)
Christopher Hitchens (writer)
Douglas Adams (writer; birthday today; you may have noticed the doodle on Google)
Daniel Dennett (writer, philosopher, professor)
Penn Jillette (the more "talkative" of the magician duo Pen & Teller.)
Seth MacFarlane (hard to believe you wouldn't know him; he hosted the Oscars this year, made a famous movie last year and has been producing & starring on at least two famous tv programs for ten years: Family Guy and American Dad.)
Bill Maher (comedian, host of HBO's "Real Time")
Steven Weinberg (Nobel Prize winning physicist, writer)
Sam Harris (writer, neuroscientist)
One of the experts says, "aggressive secularism and encroachment on religious liberty have shaken the trust many Catholics have towards the outside world"
"Wait, this is our fault?" say the secular people.
You mean that the endless line of pedophilic priests is ok? I just don't know which is worse in the world today 1) christians, 2) muslins, 3) jews, 4) all of the above.
The catholic church and religionists in general seem to think that "religious liberty" means that their ideas and concepts should take precedence over secular civil law.
Notice also that their concept of "religious liberty" applies to their religion only; they certainly would not support granting the same amount or "religious liberty" to other religions.
Hopefully someone who can stand up against homosexuals and declare once and for all that homosexuality is evil. I want to see someone who will take western governments to task for validating homosexual marriage and denying that the God ordained institution of marriage is between a man and a woman.
I also want to see someone who will state unequivocally without retraction that Islam is evil and is a woman killing gutter religion that worships a false god.
It'll be good for secularism and bad for Christianity if leading churches continue to obsess over Paul's condemnation of homosexuality while ignoring Jesus's broader message (e.g., the Sermon on the Mount).
I'm not sure how I feel about that. Christianity has been both a positive and a negative force in the world.
Extreme Right
Some things never change though.
I hope you're willing to sign up for the war you are inciting, Extreme Right.
Probably not; religious coward with a keyboard.
Extreme Right -
want to see someone who will state unequivocally without retraction that Islam is evil
"The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also" Mark Twain
Extreme Right:
Ok. You bashed homosexuals and Muslims, but you forgot to bash Jews. And Hindus. And Buddhists.
What's wrong? Were you in a hurry?
Good grief, morons.
CHrist taught to love sinners, but NOT THE SINS THEY DO. That also means that when we all sin, we are to end it, be sorrowful for it and NEVER COMMIT THEM AGAIN.
Loving your neighbor does NOT mean love their actions, no matter how hideous and amoral they are. That's what the modernists and current gay-lesbian agenda is ramming down everyon'es throats.
As far as Islams, Buddhists, Shintoists, Hindus, Jews, and the 40,000 non-Catholic "Christian" sects out there -- it's all heresy. God revealed Himself first to the Jews, promised a Messiah, and He came. The Jews who followed Christ as the Messiah became the first Christians. Those who rejected Christ remained Jews (in error). The other false religions are fully man-made.
The Protestant sects reject the Church of Rome for their own legitimacy and to deceive people to create a flock. Only the ROman Catholic Church traces its heritage to the original Apostles (to whom Christ instructed Peter "to build My Church" -- not to "write and personally interpret a book).
Christ opened His favor (to become the "Chosen People") to the entire world: "I am the Way and Light. Those who believe in Me shall have life everlasting/no one goes to the Father except through Me."
Holy sh!t, what other bits you all need?
Hey Gimmeabreakoradrink, you are 1000 percent CORRECT on all you have written!!! Lotsa ignorant and misinformed people out there. God Bless.
Lots of churches make this claim. The Orthodox denominations, for instance.
Hmmm - It's amazing the stories MSNBC now selects AFTER the election.
Yawnnnnn
Exactly, the spiritual leader of 1.2 billion people is so irrelevant.
But how about those Sonics??
(1) He should look daring in drag.
(2) He should drool with greed.
(3) He should be licentious and lecherous with levity.
(4) He should be pompous with perseveration.
(5) He should cunning without mercy.
These are a few of Catholicism's favorite things !
The new Pope MUST:
1. Approve and actively support and pay for abortion
2. Give out condoms like candy
3. Fight for homosexuals to marry.
There is only one answer: Barack Hussein Obama for Pope.
Pope Trojanis the First, his Eminence.
Ahh yes, the old MENSA grade argument that I don't want abortions but I don't want contraception either.
Brilliant.
Today's Winner of the Asshat Award goes to oldtimedemocrat, Nice Job, way to totally bring your hatred of the president into a discussion about the Pope! :) Wow ....
Bartunek has it backwards. According to the Apostle Paul, it's not about "today's culture" or what "God's children" feel they need. Paul says, "And be not conformed to this world: but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."
What is "today's culture?" Look around you. Listen to the self-proclaimed "experts." No judgements. No right. No wrong. Live as YOU see fit. In fact, today's culture claims that no God even exists. We are our own gods. We decide what is best for us. Our will be done, not God's. Want an abortion? Well, get one. Want to sleep with someone of the same sex? Do it. No one should judge you. You are all "God's children." This is the kind of thinking that the 'Representative of Christ" should be in synch with?
Paul also said, "Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world."
This world is going to Hell in a handbasket and what do we want in a spiritual leader? Another wishy-washy, feel-good Pope to tell "God's children," everythings cool... keep on truckin'?
This world is not the home of "God's children." We are here to do His will, not to have God do our will. The Pope needs to get THAT message out in no uncertain terms. Just like the Man he's supposedly representing did.
Jesus said, "Enter in at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leads to destruction, and many there be who go in there: [But] narrow is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leads unto life, and
few there be that find it."
"Judge not lest ye be judged"
"Vengeance is mine saith the Lord"
What is it with you guys and the "doom and gloom"??
What exactly now has your God got against Ethiopia??
According to St. Paul, it's not about today's culture. It's about St. Paul.
Apples and oranges, William. We're not talking about judging those outside of the flock. Paul says:
The article is about choosing the next shepherd of the flock. Today's flock has scattered. It's lost. It's supposedly the Pope's commission to find them and bring them back, not make them feel good about being lost.
Context, William.
I don't know, William. He's God. He doesn't feel the need to consult me or any other man on what He does.
Siara Delyn:
I have a friend (Joe) who lives in St. Paul. He says it's very cold and snowy there.
"...in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil
desires..." Apostle Peter
I don't know, William. He's God.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Well it's time to start questioning God then.
How very true. Everybody seems to want a Pope who will tell the world what they WANT to hear, rather than what they NEED to hear. "Love your neighbor" and "judge not" is only half the story. The other part that nobody has ever wanted to listen to because it is difficult, is to resist our selfish, narcissistic impulses, recognize our own sins, repent with an honest heart, and ask for foregiveness with faith and humility.
The church needs a Pope who will deal decisively with the sexual abuse crisis and financial mess, but HOLD THE LINE on all moral teachings. The Pope is charged with leading the universal church to do the will of God, not changing the church to do the will of men.
@trying2serve
Which moral teachings?
The one where The Bible teaches how to acquire and keep slaves?
The one where The Bible teaches it is o.k. to send your daughters out to rapists, then later get drunk and have sex with them?
The one where The Bible teaches women should keep their heads covered and their mouths shut if they know what is good for them?
The one where The Bible teaches us to abandon our wives and children so we can get a big reward when we get to heaven?
A man with vision to disband and close this church.
WilliamOfRites wrote: "What exactly now has your God got against Ethiopia??"
Jesus left his brother James in charge of the church (NOT St. Paul). After Jesus death, James went south into Ethiopia. St. Paul founded the Roman Catholic Church. Maybe this dislike dates all the way back to St. Paul's not being in charge. Control is a big issue for the Catholic Church.
You really believe that trash?
As opposed to the trash you believe? Yup.
St Paul came on the scene well after Christ was gone.... Remember?... he was a "Christian hunter" before his conversion....
It would be nice to have a pope who gave scholars full access to the library of the Vatican, so that mankind could understand the historical development of the Catholic Church. But transparency is not what the church is about.
But I'll bet the Cardinals wear transparent under ware !
I think any non former Hitler Jugend and child abuse cover-up pope would be an improvment!
To be fair, kids who were Hitler Jungend didn't have any choice in the matter.
More than 20% of the youth in Germany managed to avoid becoming a member of the Hitler Jugend. Quite a few ran away to avoid it.
To say he had no choice in the matter or that he had no choice firing at allied fighters during ww2 is making things far too easy for someone who is supposed to infallible
europeforever, Papal Infallibility does NOT apply to somebody who is not a Pope (like Ratzinger, before he bacame Pope). As a matter of fact, it doesn't even apply to somebody who IS Pope, unless they are speaking on matters of doctrine. You're obviously not a Catholic, or you might know this.
Do the "Westboro Baptists" get a vote??
Only if they're still all wet !
Funny, I didn't seem to see 'gender equality' mentioned in the article.
Fail.
Mother Teresa never had the opportunity to serve, but what about her successor, Sister Mary Prema Pierick? She might lose a lot of the pomp, sell some gold, and actually help some people.
Unfortunately, great nuns are not in the running for Pope.... You have to be ordained... and that privelage has not been extended to women yet....
Perfect Pope is like perfect human....ain't no such animal. Humans by nature are corrupt, liars, hypocrites and likely to install mans inhumanity to man on all levels. Look at the history of this....greed, cheating, etc that are done behind closed doors as usual.
Five Qualities eh? That would be like:
1. Someone who HASN'T been sodomizing children...
2. Someone who HASN'T been covering for those who were...
3. Someone who actually believes in GOD...
4. Someone who has no political agenda...
5. Someone who won't abuse the power of the office...
Got two words for 'em...GOOD LUCK.
Best quality would be no balls! A eunich.