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Jerry Lampen / Reuters file
White smoke rises from the chimney above the Sistine Chapel in the Vatican, indicating a new pope has been elected, in this file picture taken April 19, 2005.
It's right there in black or white: At the end of every conclave voting session, a smoke signal is released from the Sistine Chapel's chimney.
Black means no agreement. White means the Catholic Church has a new pope.
But as history has shown, relying on the burning of ballots to communicate with the world sometimes puts the men in the red hats in a gray area.
Thomas Coex / AFP - Getty Images file
Black smoke from one of the earlier votes at the 2005 conclave.
There has been white smoke that looked dark and black smoke that wasn't dark enough and plenty of other technical problems that seem to clash with the meticulous ritual that accompanies the election of a pontiff.
"Even with all this planning, they still can't get it right," said Christopher Bellitto, a professor of history at Kean University in New Jersey who has written books on Catholicism.
The public assumption is that the Vatican must use smoke signals because that's what has been done since the time of Peter. Not so, said Frederic Baumgartner, author of "Behind Locked Doors: A History of the Papal Elections."
For centuries, bells or cannons were used to spread the news. It wasn't until the 1800s that the faithful gathered in the piazza every day began to look to the chimney for an indication that a vote had taken place; the first election where the cardinals used two different types of smoke to announce the outcome didn't happen until 1903, Baumgartner said.
Getting a good fire going just from the ballots was a challenge, but stoking the flames got easier after Pope Pius X ordered that every scrap of paper used in the conclave be incinerated. He was afraid the cardinals' notes would leak to the press.
"Pius X was offended by the newspaper accounts that appeared after his election," Baumgartner said.
At first, damp straw was used to blacken the smoke, but it didn't always produce a definitive shade. In 1958, after two false alarms, someone got the bright idea to buy smoke bombs. The color was right, but they filled the Sistine Chapel with smoke.
Osservatore Romano via Reuters
The Sistine Chapel stoves that will send up the smoke signal that lets the world know if a pope has been elected.
Five years later, they tried army flares. In the first of the two 1978 conclaves, they switched to chemical additives, but the backdraft was sickening and the cardinals "came out hacking and wheezing," John Thavis writes in his book "The Vatican Diaries."
For the second one, they changed back to the less offensive flares, but when the cardinals voted in Pope John Paul II, the smoke was gray.
By 2005, the Vatican was anxious to get it right and unveiled a two-stove system. One would incinerate the ballots; the other would burn chemical cartridges to color the smoke.
And there was a backup plan: the 10-ton campanone, the ninth largest bell in the world, would be rung to verify a new pope had been chosen.
How could it fail?
Well, after the cardinals elected Pope Benedict XVI, the smoke that poured out of the narrow stovepipe was a decidedly murky shade. Inside the chapel, things were not going well, Thavis wrote.
Every time the door to the stove was opened for more ballots to be shoved in, black smoke belched into the chamber decorated with Michaelangelo's priceless frescoes.
"These cardinals are not exactly handymen," Bellitto said.
Even worse, in all the excitement, no one had gotten a message to the Vatican electrician sitting nervously with a rotary phone in the bell tower control room, waiting for the go-ahead to ring the campanone, according to Thavis' book.
To confuse matters further, some bells were ringing -- the ones that simply marked the six o'clock hour -- but there was a 17-minute delay before the big one started to peal and everyone knew the church had a new leader.
There's no guarantee the smoke signals will be any clearer at the end of this conclave. Regardless, even in the age of Twitter -- including a tongue-in-cheek account called @PapalSmokeStack -- and text messaging, the Vatican is content to rely on a stove and flue to break its biggest news.
"Innovation is not in its DNA," Bellitto explained. "And nobody does ritual like the Catholic Church."
The Associated Press contributed to this report.
The vote for a new pope could come as soon as Tuesday morning, and all eyes are now on the chimney of the Sistine Chapel, which will erupt in white or black smoke to signal if a new pope has been elected. TODAY's Lester Holt reports.
Leave a Comment:
First
Surely the Roman Catholic church comes foremost to mind when one thinks of the word "progress".
forkchops,
If progress means keeping followers in the Third World poor and ignorant, then I guess you have a salient point! Whenever women are allowed access to education, birth rates decline. Just think about that.
Progress in human rights and education proceeds despite the Catholic Church, certainly not because of it.
What do you want? An exploding scoreboard?
William Travis,
Don't jump to conclusions!
I meant to say FIRST conclave I've witnessed since no longer being a devout Catholic but there was a glitch posting it.
I love irony. The atheist who claims the church keeps others so ignorant, can't even post a message to this board.
in the middle,
Happy to lighten your day a bit. My claim remains unassailable, however. Remember, this is a faith that spends money in Africa to teach people that AIDS is bad but condoms are worse!
Right on Atheist
Many of these people have no idea by the "have as many babies as you can" mentality and its economic effects on society. Especially the dirt poor.
Funny story about these guys and the smoke. I was picturing men in beanies running around trying to light a fire with Benny Hill music in the background.
Amazing people still follow these guys. They are selling you smoke and mirrors... (see what I did there?)
Thanks Rob99,
I used to be a devout Catholic. I was taught that Yahweh, or more specifically, Yahweh as his alter-ego, Jesus, would make everything clear when you got to heaven.
Until then, it was Party On Wayne, Party on Pope.
Science cured me of faith. I have a lot of making up to do by donating to organizations that truly support the dignity and worth of the individual, be it human or even non-human animal species.
Why not just run up a flag on one selected flagpole? Solid black for no decision, the Papal (Vatican City) flag for a new pope? No mistaking the two, no risk of fire or damage to the Sistine Chapel.
Atheist, if what you've posted in the comments of MSN stories relating to the Vatican and Catholics over the past week or so are true then you need to change your moniker to Idiot-#1.
Just throw in a pound of marijuana to get the white smoke.All get high and party,WE Got A WINNER woohoo.
As for the black smoke..add a gallon of gasoline, no winner yet..but somebody call the fire dept. please.
Atheist, I'm confused as to why the failings of a denomination of Christianity, one which barely even follows the teachings of the religion, is grounds for attack against said belief system.
For myself, science daily renews my faith. It's interesting how something affects one person one way, and another a different way, no? Just please make sure your complaint is actually with the practice of faith, and not with the teachings and behaviors of the Catholics.
Oh, and let me apologize for 3thirty3's comment. That's uncalled for.
3thirty3,
Pick one and discuss the difficulty you might have with it rather than just say things without evidence. Feel free to e-mail me.
Eyvind, I'm having a hard time understanding your post.
This is my philosophy: "Attacks against people are features of barbarism. Attacks against ideas are features of civilization."
You seem to be defending something, either religion or faith. That's your choice. Please don't think for one moment that religion or faith is beyond criticism, investigation and yes, even ridicule.
Atheist,
You are always the first person on this newsvine that comments. You obviously follow the Catholic Church quite diligantly. There are some deeper issues going on with your faith than you care to display on this newsvine. You have deep conceded issues with the Church and that is understandable. St.Augustine said," if you are not struggling with your faith, you are not doing it right." Obviously, you are doing something right, but you are doing a lot of things wrong too.
If you were so happy with being an newly found atheist, you would not have to come on this newsvine to exclaim that fact nor would you have to come on here to constantly justify the atheist point of view. You would be content with your feelings and thoughts.
Let me give you an example. If I constantly talk to people about how big my penis is. All day, everyday, and people know me as "the guy who is always talking about his penis". Wouldnt you think that I was constantly talking about how big my penis is, just to divert people from the fact that my penis is not very large after all. This is just an example, mind you.
Now back to your situation, you seem to be doing the exact same thing here on this newsvine with your atheist belief...or so-called atheist belief. It was Pope Gregory the 16th that introduced the Vatican II, I believe. At that time, you offered up a new suggestion to adapt Catholicism to modern times. He wanted to work with Science rather than fight against it. He found numerous ways in which the Church and Science now work together. One example is evolution. The Catholic Church believes in micro evolution now and accepts that we are constantly changing.
I am positive, if you do a little research into what Catholicism actually teaches, you would be amazed how it agrees with your beliefs in science.
Hello folks, only the corrupt corporate owned presstitutes would continue to post inane wall to wall stories of the pedophile conclave occurring a half a world away. The sad fact for the Vatican is that their hold on humanity has ended. A majority of people have intellectually evolved beyond the control mechanism that is religion.
The people of the world have grown tired of the corrupt institutions that have enslaved them and are now rising up and shedding the chains of bondage and subjugation.
Those that are willing to give up their personal power to mortal men in the belief that their blind obedience will gain them salvation have every right to do so but have no right to pass it off on others as fact or reality.
Or just burn a tire.
Seriously though....this is the 21st century. Why can`t they simply open the door and thrust a piece of paper out saying Cardinal so and so has now been elected Pope John Paul III? Or even post it on the papal facebook or a tweet? That would at least indicate they are making an effort to modernize. Are they that fearful someone would sneak in and somehow rig the balloting? But if they insist on smoke signals then at least just issue black smoke indicating they are still "voting" and when all is said and done simply fling the doors open to a clarion of bells, horns, party favors and celebrate...celebrate....dance to the music.
Corky, all those words and all you were able to essentially say was,
"Shut up atheist! Learn about Catholicism!"
LOL
Acutally science has proved very little. Not to mention scientific theorys have consistantly changed through the ages. I will say that while I was once a member of the church, they do have valueable teachings. While they don't beleive in Condoms and other birthcontrol, they do teach self restraint. Otherwise men would be no better then dogs and Cats. Also science has trouble with the beginnings of life, as well as how it all started, (even the Big Bang) has started to loose it's following. Not to menion Evolution, becasue of descoveries that turn up disproving it. I believe that both have something to offer the world, as long as neather become too prowerful, as to take it over.
As for corrept institutions, they will continue to go on, be it in politics, religion, or any other group. Becasue a corrupt or stupid person will follow anyone that will promise them a better life. Even if it means the end of others.
300Michael,
Science doesn't work with proofs or absolutes. Science works with probability and plausibility. Do you understand the difference? Faith is the tool you need if you want to say things are absolutely true despite having no evidence for the claim!
Secondly, without religion you say men would be like dogs and cats? Who taught you that? So without your religion you would go around and start eating vomit and pooping on your neighbor's lawn? I suppose keep your religion then! I know better though.
Evolution is a fact as sure as the planets are spheroid. The problem with folks that say things as you do, 300Michael, is that you need education just to find out how much you don't know. Have you ever read about the Dunning-Krueger effect?
Thanks for playing!
"...Faith is the tool you need if you want to say things are absolutely true despite having no evidence for the claim!..."
Hmmmm. It sounds like you have a lot of faith. Where is your evidence that God does not exist?
So let me get this right, if an Athiest talks about his atheism, its the same as someone bragging about penis size? well then let me ask this. what about the religius people that constantly go out and preach the good word, and that good word is repent or go to hell. they are twenty times louder and in your face than any Athiest i have ever seen, An athiest can live his life honorably, and wanting to always do good in his life, helping others, and just plain living justly because he believes strongly in being a good person, but if that same man doesnt repent hes going to hell, meanwhile, and im not counting all christians, but lets say most catholics, and i was raised catholic and was an alter boy so i feel i can give my honest opinoin, but anyways a christian can be a total douche and if he goes to church every week and ask for forgiveness he goes to heaven, Im not sure that is the only way to get to heaven or in an Athiests case, to at least to not burn in hell.
They should make the survivalist with no shoes on the tv show a cardinal if they want to get the fire right! This whole process gets funnier by the day! Of course this is the same church who could not bring justice to all those abused kids.
Then why do we still have Nautilus's, Roaches, Dragonfly's and so many other animals? Were they too stupid to evolve in the over 300million years? Why do we have alge, and other even more primitive animals? for the same reason? Evolution teaches us we came from apes, yet there ae still apes. I just wonder how many skunks it took to get their spray right to be effective? Not to mention the millions that died in getting the soluction wrong. But then they wouldn't have evolved then. So the first one had to get it right the first time he used it. I said the dogs and cats, because in sociaty were religion is absent you have men screwing every woman they can find, just like the dogs running lose in the neiborhood. Since The person is in control they can justify any action, with no responsibility. I do believe man has evolved, as we are taller and (at least in theory have more brains), but we look like man from the earliest Eqyptian remains. After all no one has the right to tell you what you can do. You can't create someting out of nothing. The matter to make the universe had to come from somethng. The problem is thory is taugt as fact, and it can not explain faith.
While you may suffer from theDunning Kruger effect, I have do delusions of my superiorty. I just don't like it when theory is taught as fact, an is the only ideas that are allowed. Even Darwin had questions about his results.
Real simple, forget the darned ol' stove, just have someone run out on the balcony, and yell 'Hey All Y'all, looky here'
Leave it to the liberal left NBC to post ANOTHER negative article online about electing the last pope.
So lemme get this straight, NBC.
A story about smoke is news, but the emails from the Owebama administration instructing their agencies to make the sequestration cuts as painful as possible to the American people (to be in line with Owebama's narrative) is not news worthy? How come no articles on THAT???
I suppose that's why NBC came in last place in February Sweeps... and also came in last place when people were polled to name the most trusted news network. Oops - TIED for last... WITH THE COMEDY CHANNEL!! It's actually sad that a once news network has devolved into this. But hey, keep flushing yourself down the toilet, NBC - it's fun to watch!
My only surprise is that NBC didn't try to spin this into an article that blames smoke on George W.
Evolution doesn't say everything will evolve. we came from ape, but some apes do not evolve. a good example is in your mirror, other human evolve to more educated, some remained at stone age.
This entire process is little more than a bunch of hocus-pocus, superstitions, and meaningless 7th century ritual.
There are actually THREE colors of smoke which may be emitted from the Sistine Chapel:
1.) White Smoke: The church has a new Pope.
2.) Black Smoke: No decision has been agreed upon.
3.) Yellow Smoke: The party is still going strong; the water bong is in good working condition!
Atheist: now I know why you are so obsessed with any stories about the Catholic Church and the subject of religion...it really explains a lot.
Scrambolo, now that is heeelarious (LOL)!
300 Michael
It is better for you to do the work and answer your questions for yourself about evolution. If you are intellectually honest, you will do that.
Evolution by natural selection is an evidence-based theory as strong as any other scientific theory. It's funny to me that you don't seem to care about the theory of gravity or the theory of motion or the theory of quantum mechanics. Why is that?
Darwin's idea is dangerous and worrisome to many people of faith because it explains exactly where we came from (our parents having sex, and further back common ancestors having sex and so forth) with no need for an Adam and Eve or Noah and his kin as the case may be (YMMV: your myth may vary).
Have a great day!
Atheist,
How about an answer to 1.22? Where is the "evidence" for your assertions?
I would like to see NBC "evolve" into a real news organization.
Where is your evidence that Santa Claus does not exist?
This is called shifting the burden of proof fallacy. The onus is not on the one denying the claim, but rather the one making the claim. ie: There is a real god as described by bronze age sheepherders very much like any other religion in the region, except you claim this one is true.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. If you claim that this god exists, it's up to you to prove he does, not for someone else to prove he does not.
You can use that proof of a negative for anything, including the tooth fairy and Santa. If you cannot prove they *do not* exist, does that mean they do?
Solution in two words and one hyphen: Bat-Signal!
Not only would it make the signal easily discernible, it would be hellacool!
What if the selection occurs during daylight hours? Well, if the "one true church" is as almighty as it pretends to be, I'm sure God would solve that problem for them.
I never claimed anything! Simply asked for proof. No advocating an opposite argument, simply asking a question.
If the cops stop you, you state your name, and the cops and ask for proof of identity, is that "shifting the burden of proof fallacy"? Or, just a questioning the truthfulness of a statement?
Methinks spike is just never quite gonna get it.
Why don't they announce it the way everyone today makes important announcements...by simply posting it on facebook? Then they can sit back and see how many "likes" they get.
How is a cop asking you for ID an extraordinary claim of a negative? He's asking you to prove who you are.
An atheist is the cop, not the suspect. He's asking you to prove that there is a god and doubting you until you do so, much like a cop would do.
I cannot wait to find out who is chosen as the next gilded turd.
Spike-322306:
Re: your post #1.34
The very word, FAITH can be defined as believing in something/anything which cannot be proved by scientific method or known through fact(s). FAITH is simply believing in something without proof! If you know it is true, you do NOT believe through FAITH, but believe through known and provable fact(s).
theres no Santa? that sucks.
@Athiest - Science?
LMAO. You think Science has been oh so profound. Numerous self proclaimed athiest scientists ended up Christian due to their work in disproving God. So you think people, the Earth, animals, the brain, all was formed out of nowhere by a MAGICAL explosion aka "Big Bang"? A "Big Bang" Formed critical thinking? problem solving, love, etc? YOU ARE SUCH A FOOL.
youdon'tknowjack:
RE: your post 1.45
Do you know what the Christian Bible says about anybody calling another a fool? Perhaps you should check-it-out! Also, you CANNOT cite one reasonable source which will back up your claim about athiest scientists becoming CHRISTIAN. Some have become Diests but not necessarily Christian-- MAYBE! Some Christian scientists have also become Athiest--FACT!
Science has been profound. Only in the last 400 years have we doubled our life span, eradicated diseases, flown, been to the moon, etc. Pretty much 85% of all human achievement has occurred in that small 400 year window thanks to science.
As for the rest of your strawman argument (which you really nailed! -- touche') No scientist that I am aware of has claimed *magic* in any scenario. Some of us actually understand the principals behind the research and peer review (although admittedly not the math).
These aren't some yahoos from a pulpit stating these things. These are highly educated men and women spending their lives studying, researching, documenting and submitting peer review for things that you dismiss out of hand. They change their stance as evidence changes, even criticizing their own works if evidence comes out that falsifies something they swore up and down on.
Religion is completely incapable of this.
Easy solution. Throw a pope-soap-on-a-rope out of the window. If the rope is still attached no pope, it it is new pope.
Yeah but in this case instead of pope soap it would an altar boy....
Easy solution. Throw a pope-soap-on-a-rope out of the window. If the rope is still attached no pope,
it itif it isn't, new pope.You're an ass.
You guys sound like children.
I'm leaving.
Announcing a new pope with smoke signals seems a bit like children too.
This tradition makes about as much sense to me as daylight savings. What savings? The amount of daylight doesn't change. It just pisses me off. I already am not a morning person.
Just dont pick up the soap on a rope if your an alter boy in the communal holy shower room, Trust me on this one.
Or get some bottle rockets
simply put (2.7), "alter" boy? Was that some kind of Freudian slip?
simply put,
you can pick it up, just don't bend over while doing so.
lol yeah, could be, its my alter ego. funny observation.
Very simple. When the pope is chosen, you burn a small boys body to signal the new paupalcy.
I love the old tradition and I don't remember it ever being flawed in my lifetime. Change for the sake of change isn't always needed.
Carole, you must only be 6. According to the article and from personal recollection, the smoke for Pope Benedict was gray (and actually it started out more on the black side).
I agree - of course it seems a little silly, when they could post it to their Website and Tweet/FB it in an instant - BUT that's really not the point. It is about tradition and that's OK by me too. Obviously, the Church cares about tradition and rituals (that is pretty much their entire lives) so it's OK with me if they want to still have paper ballots and to burn them after each voting round.
Heck, Hockey players and Golfers and Test Pilots and Magicians are all allowed to observe 'silly' traditions to honor the heritage of those who came before them, so I'm OK with the Vatican observing 'silly' traditions too. :)
The problem is that over the centuries, there have been many changes to those traditions. Why do they keep cutting a hole in the roof of the chapel to install the chimney just to follow the traditions of the last couple of centuries? In this day of electronics, just mount a huge electronic banner sign on the square that updates every time there is a new vote...Not Yet or Yes, Cardinal XYZ is now Pope ABC.
Have Ivan Cardinal Dias of India burn the ballots. Indians are supposed to be good at smoke signals.
"And nobody does ritual like the Catholic Church."
It should read "Nobody makes up new rituals unrelated to religion and God like the catholic church". What a disgusting bunch of child abusers.
When the Catholic Church sells off the VATICAN and gives the money to the POOR, THEN I will give then an ounce of respect. An ounce. They have done so much harm to the human race over the millennia that even complete poverty and contrition would only get them an ounce.
SRS,
Satan works in mysterious ways, but not when he is working through you....he is just blatantly obvious then.
Let me ask you, have you ever heard on the news anything about the group of 30 or 40 young disciple group of Catholics that go down to South of America to do mission work? Have you ever heard of one of the hundreds of poverty organizations set up by the Catholic Church to help fight poverty with over 97% of all donations actually make it to the poverty stricken people? Let me ask you, did you hear the news talking about how after almost every major natural disaster in the world, there is Catholics putting themselves out there in the name of God and Jesus Christ to help the people without homes? Did the news tell you how once a week, there are hundreds of millions of Catholics that attend church to better themselves and their way of life and that this has been going on for nearly 2,000 years? Did the news tell you the Catholic Church has set up hospitals, schools, orphanages in almost every country around the world? Did the news tell you that even at this very moment, there is a Catholic person out there, praying for you, at this very moment, so that the world may not misjudge the Catholicism?
Now, let me ask you. Did the news tell you how some priests molested some boys? I am sure they did. And did they tell you how rich the church is? Im sure they did. Well, let me advise you that the Catholic Church was not the one that molested the boys. That was the actions of some idiot priests and those that tried to cover it up. That was the actions of man, not the Church, but yet you seem to confuse the two.
Have you ever given any thought to this? Are you just going to recite what the bias news sources have to tell you and totally ignore any other point of view or your own God given logic? or do just like to spew hatred whenever you have the chance?
Just imagine if they changed their traditions. Lets say they printed it out on a dot matrix printer, then they would have to change to a inkjet printer then to a lazer printer, then to a out door display then to a LED, then to a big screen then to a HD screen. It seems every year tech changes so fast you have to update it constantly. The only thing I would do is to change the smoke color. Red or Green or Yellow and Purple for example, or just go out and announce it to the public.
Corky, True, it has been the Media's goal to distroy the many good religious organizations out there. Bad news sells papers, as they used to say. Unless it is a group that you support then you supress the storys. much like FDR's escapades in Florida while the first lady was in washington, or Obama's histroy.
still and idiot michael
If you want white smoke use a little Pyrodex. It will go woosh when lit and give off lots of white smoke.
Of course they know nothing about science, so don't know how to make the smoke a certain color.
They are irrelevant idiots.
I tried to stop him, but he wouldn't listen. A friend of mine lit some in his fireplace with a bic lighter. Needless to say it was a trip to the ER for 2nd and 3rd degree burns to the anterior side of his right hand and fingers. I don't think it was pyrodex back then might still have been BP.
aND BURN DOWN THE Sistine CHAPEL?
Language predates the Catholic church by quite a large margin. The church should learn to use it. I believe they will find that it is better than smoke signals. Not nearly as mysterious though....are they going for mysterious??
drama queens
This just in. Indian tribes file class action suit alleging copyright infringement. Vatican may have to allow Casino on premises to settle dispute. Tribes promise "tasteful" religious themed slot machines.
Looks like a big pedophile festival.
Forgo the smoke and pick the black guy already.
We see how well it's working out for the US.
JW,
PERFECT!
I can't believe Obama isn't lobbying to be Pope too.
I love you guys! Whatever is going on in the entire world, you can use it as an excuse to take a shot at our president. Good to see that at least you're honest enough to acknowledge that you don't like Mr Obama because he is black.
BTW, JWeilan, because you get your news from Fox, you probably haven't noticed that Bush's wars are winding down and the economy is continuing to recover from the absolute disaster that was the Bush years. So, yes, having this particular black man in the White House is working out beautifully for our country. That is why most American patriots voted for him again in 2012.
Go on hating Democrats and especially black Democrats. It doesn't matter. You do not matter.
Why should he settle for second best? He has higher asperations.
Obama doesn't want to settle and just be the Pope. Obama wants to be, or already thinks he's, God.
Mikeatoga, What a load of Crap. His race has noting to do with it. Only Liberials bring up the race card. It is his policys, that we don't like. Nancy Pelosi's and Reid's Policy's are the same and we don't like them either, are they black too? No. We don't like presidents that say one thing and do another, like ballancing the budget in "a fair and ballanced" Which means raising taxes, and not cutting spending, and going around the country preaching the end of the US as we know it. But the cuts were only cuts on the increase in spending. He said he would half the deficet in his first term, but he doubled it instead. He declaired "transparancy" but used Excutive orders to close down investigations in fast and furious, and Libya amung others. He is all for restricting our second ammendment rights, and other constitutional rights, but giving rights to illegal citizens from another country. he want to decide if a person in this country can be bombed by Drones, at his choosing. Obama lied to the citizens and used scare tatics, weak minds fall for this, so he got relected. Need I go on?
Your pants must be in full flame from the awful lie you just posted you rotten troll
Sorry, 300Michael, but you've made it clear that in addition to having only a 3rd grade education, you don't read either. Ramay said, "pick the black guy already." Then the next racist neanderthal, JWeilan added, "We see how well it's working for the US." Clearly he meant picking "the black guy." And so, my ignorant friend, these comments were racist and hateful.
Are you one of the idiots who ran out and bought more guns and ammo when President Obama was re-elected? If so, take note of the fact that Mr Obama never said word one about guns until the latest slaughter of school children. When he did finally say something, it had nothing to do with your 2nd amendment rights. He suggested universal background checks (to keep felons and mentally ill people from buying guns) and stopping the sale of large capacity magazines. Do you need a 30 round magazine to hunt or to target shoot or to defend your home? Be honest, please. Here is the truth. No one is going to suggest confiscating your guns - it ain't going to happen. By the way, I served in the Marines and I am not a hater of guns (did you serve, tough guy?).
I'm sure that Rush and Glen told you that nonsense about Pelosi and Reid. It's apparent that you have no ability to think for yourself. Also, are you in the top 1% of income earners? If not, then no one has planned to raise your taxes - Not President Obama and not Senator Reid and not Congresswoman Pelosi. These Democrats are trying to save America's middle class from the greedy bastards at the very top. And so, 300Michael, if you earn less than $350,000 per year then your taxes won't be raised. If you earn more than that (I can't imagine that someone who would lose a spelling bee to a 10 year old could earn more) then your taxes might increase. Tough! Obama's proposals DO include substantial spending cuts. I'm guessing that you're in favor of the excellent economic policies of the Bush administration that almost destroyed the world's economy.
Please, 300Michael, go to school and do some learning before you spout off about things about which you know nothing at all.
Semper Fi, Mikatoga. Thanks for explaining (or trying to, anyway) to the pinheads on this site. Since it is Spring Break all around the country I assume these ARE fifth graders playing on mommy's computer while home from school. They make no sense; cannot spell; cannot form coherent sentences and cannot stay on topic. A valiant try on your part, though. They are either too young or too brain dead to reason well. Pathetic hate mongers.
Ugh -- typical Dem -- calling names -- so sad. Why do Dems do this all this time???? But for the record -- hasn't the debt ceiling been raised because of out of control spending by the OBama admin -- or was that all a nightmare?
The Vatican needs to hire a chemist.
They use the guy who invented Viagra
Setting fires inside of the Sistine Chapel is very foolish. Ring a damn bell instead.
How about this: Any smoke at all means no Pope. When they open the door and step outside, we have a new Pope. Or is that too simple for the Catholic Church?
These Catholics are kind of funny really.
They're all creepy!!
I think they should use red smoke.
They seem to have enough issues just getting it to burn in it's natural color....no way they could get red to work out right.
I was thinking the exact same thing "amo1"...why not make it something really, really obvious?!
If it came out pink they would think they elected a woman
Is it just me... or does this whole process only highlight the absurdity of religion in general and the Catholic religion in particular?
No, it is not just you.
Just you. This is just one of many procedual habits that are found all over the world, and they are often not religious at all. Marriages, State of the Union, swearing in at anything, including witness stands and presidencies. Unless you make your remarks to all of them, then your remarks are no good for any of them. Also, Darwin was only as right as God allowed him to be.
The absurity of religion and that of the Catholic Church; not you.
Looks like poster in the middle believes in that asinine concept called ID.
Love your post. Yours was the quickest to a star. Not sure why Yahweh doesn't manipulate the believers' point totals. They seldom get stars. There's no way there are a billion Catholics.
And I love that NBC is finally taking the time to put these goofy faiths on the front page so people can ridicule bad ideas publicly.
In the middle..... ages -
"Also, Darwin was only as right as God allowed him to be."
Which god?
I hear the bad ass one from the first testament is planning a comeback if the guy he is backing get the smoke up his ......
" Also, Darwin was only as right as God allowed him to be." - in the middle (15.2)
YOU are a funny guy! Have you thought about stand-up?
New app: white smoke or black?
App developers could make a small fortune! Call it "Holy Smoke"!
Holy smokescreen is more like it. Smokescreen for what's really going on in the world. How about reporting on the mayor of Detroit or the murder of Christians in Pakistan, msnbc? Or would you rather this endless blather about something that doesn't really matter--someone will be pope and he'll (it'll be a he for sure) will be new and different and everything will be the same.
SOME NEWS PLS!
You mean the former mayor of Detroit who was in the headlines today...and it isn't msnbc any more? It is nbcnews that you are on. There have been a lot of other "real" news stories on this site today, including the judge who overturned the NYC ban on super-size drinks.
get a fan and blow some baking flour out the stack if you need white smoke. use coal dust if you need black smoke. no mis-reading that.
It's a Sweet Sistine Party!!
All this makes me think about is 'Angels and Demons' (which I saw again recently) and I'm pretending that there is a whole bunch of shenanigans and murder happening right now as we speak inside the walls which we cannot ever view. haha
I sometimes wonder about the relevancy of the Catholic church. So many religious organizations have modernized, but the Catholic church seems stuck in the 17th century when it comes to its worldly views.
Hey come on now, catholics can eat meat on Fridays now, that could be seen as progress, LOL
I think I am already sorry I posted this, LOL
This is true
I'm not defending them, exactly, but if their perceived source of guidance has not changed since then, why should they?
The world keeps making room for more and more behaviors. Those that were once wrong, are now right. I kind of respect an institution that does not get forced into changing their ways to accommodate the changing desires of every Tom, Dick, Harry and Jane (I had to had Jane, since the old saying was insensitive to women).
in the middle
I don't know if you are right or wrong, but you are P.C., LOL
Lots of behaviors that were wrong are now right.
1. Abolishing slavery
2. Women's rights
3. Children's rights
4. Anti-cruelty laws for non-human animals
5. Secularism instead of state religions
Yeah, we didn't need the Church for morality. We needed reason. The Bible is totally cool with slavery. Any god in favor of slavery (Allah, Yahweh, Jesus, etc.) isn't worth my time of day. Of course, there is no reason to think gods exist, but you get my point.
Ooops, I forgot, people of faith don't actually READ their holy books.
A pope is just a man and a sinner like the rest of us. To say he is not and call him Holy is blasphemy.
What do you mean by the word sin? And do you support death for blasphemy?
the popes is picked by god and what the pope say is as the popes does.
The hanging chad causes the problem, LMAO
Easy solution. Don't invite any Chad's.
Well, I for one don't think the Vatican bought enough EU carbon credits to legally offset the lighting of a fire in the first place.
LOL ... I was thinking along the same lines. Those chimneys don't sound very green.
How about this idea. Unfold either a black or white cloth on the balcony where the Pope usually presents himself.
Cheap, effective and no concern over what the color is.
I have a better idea: Throw the new pope off the balcony. If he flies, he can be pope. If he falls to the ground, the Catholic Church is a fake and they should disband and give all their earthly goods to charity.
SRS - perfect
Ditto and as a test they can use the guy who just quit...see if it works