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Subscribe to RSSCardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio was considered a longshot, catching most people in St. Peter's Square by surprise when he was elected pope. As an advocate for the poor, he chose to live austerely in his home country of Argentina, and rejected many of the privileges that accompany the position of cardinal. NBC's Lester Holt reports.
Pope Francis, the first man in the modern era from outside Europe to lead the Roman Catholic Church, prizes compassion, humility and simplicity — so much that he gave up his chauffeur in Argentina and took the bus to work.
He is the first pope to be a member of the Society of Jesus, a Catholic order founded in the 16th century by St. Ignatius Loyola. Its members, known as Jesuits, take a vow of poverty and are known for their work among the poor and their scholarship.
“A man who calmly stands for what’s right and just,” Cardinal Edward Egan, the archibishop emeritus of New York, told NBC News. “A man of great compassion for the poor. That is what they point to first and foremost.”
During an economic crisis that gripped his home country over the last decade, Francis, then Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio, asserted himself as a champion of the least fortunate and a defender of social justice.
“We live in the most unequal part of the world, which has grown the most yet reduced misery the least,” Bergoglio told Latin American bishops in 2007, according a recent profile in the National Catholic Reporter. “The unjust distribution of goods persists, creating a situation of social sin that cries out to Heaven and limits the possibilities of a fuller life for so many of our brothers.”
The new pope is known to be conservative on social issues. He has opposed abortion and gay marriage, and in 2010 he drew the ire of Argentina’s president when he said that gay adoption was a form of discrimination against children.
Vote: Was Pope Francis a good choice?
Argentina in 2010 became the first country in Latin America to legalize gay marriage. During the debate that preceded the change, Bergoglio called the bill “a plan to destroy God’s plan.”
NBC News Vatican analyst and papal biographer George Weigel says Cardinal Bergoglio was the right choice, a man whose simplicity, austerity and gentleness can put the church on the road to a new future. Not a "maintenance guy" that merely oversees the status quo, Cardinal Bergoglio is expected to teach the Church how to be missionary again.
“This is no mere legislative bill,” he said. “It is a move by the father of lies to confuse and deceive the children of God.”
Argentine President Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner shot back that the then-cardinal was speaking in terms “really reminiscent of the times of the Inquisition.”
As archbishop, Bergoglio had the option to live in a palace but chose a simple apartment, according to the National Catholic Reporter. He gave up a limousine for the bus, and cooks his own meals.
In the first act of his papacy, he chose the name Francis, becoming the namesake of St. Francis of Assisi, who gave up his riches and chose a life of poverty and prayer.
He was born in Buenos Aires on Dec. 17, 1936, his father an Italian railway worker. He was elevated to cardinal in 2001 by Pope John Paul II.
At 76, he had been considered by some observers too old for the job — particularly following Benedict, who said that at 85 he was no longer healthy enough to lead the church. Francis has only one lung, the other removed because of an infection when he was a teenager.
Still, Egan said: “I can assure you that he is not feeble in any way.”
Related: Single lung not likely to hinder new pope
His official biographer has said that Francis has both keen political instincts and self-effacing humility, and that he would encourage a kind of shoe-leather evangelism within the church. He is known to walk the streets of Buenos Aires to talk to the people.
He told priests in Argentina last year: “Jesus teaches us another way: Go out. Go out and share your testimony, go out and interact with your brothers, go out and share, go out and ask. Become the word in body as well as spirit.”
Perhaps helping him overcome the traditional reluctance to elect a Jesuit pope, he fell out of favor among some Jesuits in Argentina after he was elected to the title of Jesuit provincial in 1973.
Argentina was ruled in the late 1970s by a brutal military dictatorship, and many Jesuits were drawn to a progressive activist movement within the church known as liberation theology. Church leaders backed the dictatorship publicly, and Bergoglio discouraged priests from political activism.
Two of his Jesuit priests who followed the liberation theology movement were kidnapped from the slums by the military regime in 1976. Bergoglio personally appealed to the dictator, Jorge Videla, and had them freed. One of the priests later accused Bergoglio of effectively handing them over to the death squads in the first place.
Marcos Brindicci / Reuters
Cardinal Jorge Bergoglio of Argentina was elected to lead the Catholic Church following the resignation of Pope Benedict XVI.
Bergoglio told his biographer, Sergio Rubin, that he often hid people on church property during the regime years and once gave his own identity papers to a man to help him get out of the country.
He later was sent to a school in northern Argentina to teach high school chemistry, an assignment seen as a type of exile, before the archbishop of Buenos Aires recalled him to be his auxiliary bishop.
“He’s a strong man, a man who can put up with criticism,” said George Weigel, NBC News’ Vatican analyst. “Cardinal Bergoglio put up with a lot of criticism from his brother Jesuits for many years.”
Francis earned a degree in chemistry and was ordained a priest in December 1969. He was named archbishop of Buenos Aires in 1998.
He was said to be the runner-up the last time cardinals met to choose a pope. An anonymous account of the 2005 conclave said that he had the support of some of the more liberal cardinals before giving up the fight and telling his backers to vote for Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, who became Benedict XVI.
Related: New pope: 'Pray for me and I will see you soon'
The account was attributed to a cardinal who leaked his diary to an Italian publication. It said that Francis, then Bergoglio, amassed 40 votes, more than half of what he would have needed for election, but still trailed Benedict after three ballots. His candidacy faltered on the fourth ballot, the diary said.
As Bergoglio cast his ballot beneath Michelangelo’s “Last Judgment,” the account said: “He had his face fixed on the image of Christ judging the souls at the end of time. A suffering face that implored: God, don’t to this to me.” The cardinal later declined to comment on the account.
By choosing a name no pope had chosen before, he may be signaling an era of rebirth for a church troubled by corruption and a sexual abuse crisis.
“We have to avoid the spiritual sickness of a self-referential church,” the new pope said before the conclave, according to the National Catholic Reporter. “It’s true that when you get out into the street, as happens to every man and woman, there can be accidents. However, if the church remains closed in on itself, self-referential, it gets old. Between a church that suffers accidents in the street, and a church that’s sick because it's self-referential, I have no doubts about preferring the former.”
The Associated Press contributed to this report.
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A degree in chemistry, interesting resume.
Indeed. The church has not always been anti-science, but it has certainly had conflicts in the past. The ones having the biggest differences with science in general, though, have been the evangelicals, not the Catholics.
For the most part the Church has not been anti-science. Many of the advances that led to the one's we have now were started and pioneered by Catholic priests and monks. A good modern example would be the Belgian priest who is credited with coming up with the Big Bang Theory. Pretty much whenever there has been a conflict it has always stemmed from people trying to use the new discovery to preach the Gospels.
Hugo Chavez's ideas live as Mitt Romney's ideas die. Bravo to the Catholic church!
Not just a sayer but a practicer of humility. That in itself is an enormous quality in this materialistic world. Bon chance.
so with the chemistry background, I wonder what HIS acceptance of "EVOLUTION" is??
I did not intend to suggest that they are 'anti-science'. They've made great use of science in the hay days, brought in many followers when they could produce things with even minimal degrees of accuracy.
From their current stance on various subjects. I am comfortable with describing them as being against evidence, almost in principal.
@Put a fork in it: so with the chemistry background, I wonder what HIS acceptance of "EVOLUTION" is??
Probably the same as every other Catholic: acceptance. The RCC stated that there was no conflict back in 1950! All six Popes since then have said the same.
You guys know that for hundreds of years, our greatest achievements in science came from religious monks like Mendel and and the church right? Thinking the church was anti-science is just as ignorant as thinking people back then thought the Earth was flat. Obviously they hurt some progress such as Galileo, but those were exceptions, not the rule.
Im happy someone other than a European became Pope. Hopefully his desire to help the poor will take focus away from condemning gay people.
@credit... & @put...
> I wonder what HIS acceptance of "EVOLUTION" is??
> I am comfortable with describing them as being against evidence, almost in principal.
Are you kids aware that the mathematician/physicist who first proposed the Big Bang was a Jesuit priest named Georges Lemaitre?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lema%C3%AEtre
Thanks for the reminder. Jesuits rock!
Mr. Burns, those with malice toward the RCC do not wish to be bothered with truth and facts. They are incapable of admitting that the assault on science has always come from the religious right. They'll play with rattle snakes and scorn incontrovertible facts. At least, as we know them at any point in history.
They make fun of vestments but think William Wallace was a he-man, kilt and all.
As a Protestant, I am thrilled for my Catholic brothers and sisters - - the Americas should be so proud to have this humble man as their spiritual leaders - - the idea he takes a bus to work is really cool - sounds like a man of the people.
@Brisaber,
Actually, it has been science that has been at odds with the bible and not the other way around. Science has had to correct itself numerous times while the accuracy of the bible continues to be affirmed- i.e the second law of thermodynamics-entropy proves that things don't just spontaneously come together and "evolve". Our universe is doing the opposite. (All I have to do is look at my house and yard to know this, LOL!) The bible has always said the earth was round and not flat, archaelogists continue to find civilizations named in the bible and initially denied by "scientists". I majored in chemistry but did not finish my degree opting for my MRS. and my husband actually has a M.S. in Physics. And we believe in the literal 6-day creation of the world by God as recorded in the bible! So quit bagging on evangelicals!
biblegal: huh? Your joking, correct?
Although an atheist, I still believe the Catholic Church wants to change thus encouraging Herr Ratzinger to retire and pave the way for a pope to take the church in a better direction. Although Pope Francis is considered a conservative "moderate" against abortion, it would have been impossible for a new Pope to embrace the idea idea of abortion right from the get go. I see the catholic church leadership eventually embracing abortion in cases of rape and other unwanted pregnancies but NOT as a form of birth control (nor should it). I think the third world will heartily embrace this new Pope and all he stands for. His sense of humility is admirable (no castles for me). Good luck.
biblegal....and for your further reading and "interpretation" may I suggest this;
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/multiverse
I am sure you will find it interesting. "Say not that you have found the truth, rather you have found a truth" Kahlil Gibran.
I wont pick apart your interpretation as that would serve no purpose. Just approach things with an open mind rather than formulating your raison d'etre on a few sources.
Cheers.
I don't think the Catholic church will EVER support abortion, but hopefully the Church will moderate its stance in cases of rape and the health of the mother. What I, as a Catholic, would like to see is the Church to back away from their stance on birth control, which to me is non-sensical. I like the fact that he is highly educated and humble enough to ride a bus, however his age and one lung is troublesome. I guess we'll see how it goes.
@Diogenes22
O indeed, I do not deny that discoveries were made by those of faith.
But these individuals did not come to such discoveries by clinging to scripture. They made observations, and presented ideas based on those observations. Individuals who valued evidence. Because an individual of your faith may value evidence, is not the same as your religion valuing evidence.
Unfortunately for some of these individuals, they weren't able to apply this principal to all aspects of their lives.
Yes... like a man living inside the belly of a whale.
Biblegal, would you care to demonstrate the "accuracy" of this claim, and "affirm" it's truth?
@mguy
I whole heartily agree with the first half of Biblegal's sentence, science corrects itself, that's why it becomes more accurate.
The second half is just a claim that boggles the mind. How she has come to such a conclusion is certainly a mystery.
Wouldn't "bag" on evangelicals if they wouldn't force the science we love to get less funding because of religious dogma.
@creditwherecreditisdue
Well that is the nice thing about science, it's a constant journey towards the truth... changing, altering, and updating as knowledge increases. Science can admit when it's wrong, based on new findings and leanings.
That is the opposite of religion, which claims absolute truth regardless of what new knowledge is obtained. Religion is like a bad politician, never admitting that they are wrong, but instead they twist and spin their words to justify an obvious inaccuracy.
As I have told you numnuts many times, the Catholic church does not believe in Creationism. There it too much science to now believe in Evolution. Those of you criticizing should take this time to learn something before you shoot your mouth off and sound like an ignorant bigot.
I don't know. Go get a chemistry degree, then talk with him and find out.
NBC News at 6 PM:
Let's see what thinking the jesuits about the Pope? And in the next moment a jewish rabbi was talking about the argentinian jewish community...
My Good! The jesuit and the jewish not a same thing! The religions are difficults. The jesuits has catholic religion and jewish has a hebrew religion.
Jesuit, member of a Roman Catholic religious order called the Society of Jesus that was founded by Saint Ignatius of Loyola in 1534 and the new Pope is the member of the argentinian catholic Jesuit Order and not of the jewish community.
The Jews, also known as the Jewish people, are a nation and an ethnoreligious group, originating in the Israelites or Hebrews of the Ancient Near East.
NBC News is sucks.
The President should have such an honest face.
I'm not Catholic. Could somebody explain the red shoes please? I'm not trying to be facetious necessarily, but is there a yellow brick road?
And you don't understand how the second law of thermodynamics works? Really? My opinion of our educational system just dropped a few notches. And it really wasn't that high to begin with...
When you come to New York City, he will be called Uncle Frankie.
Since he took the name of the Patron Saint of Animals, I hope that Pope Francis will show concern for helpless animals.
i was hope'n for a Pope named Salad...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRF24LY5pvw
Does any other Christian feel like this whole pope thing is idolatry.
Hey, all you Catholic Church-science scoffs - don't confuse the Papacy with the likes of George W. Bush and that brand of conservative religion. The Catholic Church has been very progressive when it comes to the sciences. The Vatican has an observatory and an official astronomer. Georges Lemaitre was a Belgian priest who published his theories on the expansion of the universe a full two years before Edwin Hubble. He was also the first to propose, wait for it, The Big Bang Theory (not the TV show, but the actual theory)!
edubl.... The Pope is not worshipped... but he is the undisputed leader of the Church. "Christ's Vicar"
Lets hope he becomes a unifying man of peace, cleans up the scandals and loses his own openly stated homophobia
The fact that he is not into the Prada Slippers and gold is a good sign.
i'm the pope of bob...all heil the weak and powerless bob...time for some bob...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lf2db4hD6zI
@brisaber
Re-read my comment-I didn't say I don't understand it- I DO. Things tend to DISorder left to themselves-hence the joke abnout my house/yard-GET it? It take intelligence to put things together. I trust you don't believe the car in your driveway just evolved out of a pile of metal/glass/plastic when it was struck by lightening-but that's what evolutionists believe about our complex universe!
What kind of person would want to lead a religious organization which has for decades, and probably centuries, engaged in pedophilia?
Evil, evil, evil.
biblegal <> <><> Microevolution has been proven and to a limited extent is observable. Examples: dogs, guided by an intelligent (?) power have evolved from wolves or a now extinct close relative of wolves; also, observing flying squirrels of today, one can make an educated guess as to how bats developed flight. I spoke above of just microevolution which most creationists do not deny. However, given enough time, I can not see how it can be rationally denied that any organism, which can exist at all could not have evolved from a less complex organism, through scads & scads of itty bitty minute traits which survived because they worked.
patter123, I have to agree with you! The person who leads a group which seems to actually promote pedophilia is a disgusting piece of human filth! So many public school teachers have molested children in the last few decades that I have lost count! Since they are HUGE supporters of President Obama, that makes him their defacto leader! Yes, Obama is a POS and should pay for his crimes and those of his pedophile public school teachers! (Ridiculous, yes, but it follows the same argument!)
Dan—
Congratulations. That is the most lame rebuttal I've ever heard.
It was no lamer than your original post! At least I don't hate someone for the actions of others.
Hello folks, the Vatican has a new Pedophile in Chief. If you think this old codger is going to change the corrupt culture of the church you will be sadly disappointed.
Some things never change. Here's the new boss same as the old boss!
Pedophile priests have molested innocent children in the Roman Catholic Church probably since the beginning of the church. These pedophiles have been protected and their horrendous crimes against children have gone unpunished. It is amazing to me that there are over a billion Catholics. I guess acceptance of pedophilia in the church is the cost of "salvation" aye!
Come on, wake up, the Vatican just this week paid out another 10 million in the LA diocese to victims to cover up their pedophiles. In 2007 they paid 660 Million in the same diocese. This is going on all around the globe.
These heinous crimes continue because good people don't speak up and allow the bad people to continue their crimes against humanity.
Not any longer, that is why you see so many people speaking out saying enough is enough. Those that continue to support these crimes after all the evidence are complicit and will suffer the same Karmic repercussions.
The sexual abuse that has been perpetrated by the Catholic Church on tens of thousands of innocent children is on a scale that lends itself so that even the casual observer has to wonder if it is an accepted ritual within the church. Many people come to the defense of the church stating that it is the celibate role that has lent itself to the wide spread abuse. If so, why are the majority of victims boys?
What other organization can continue to operate after it is caught raping children over and over again. WalMart couldn't continue to sell rakes if they did the same thing. What are they going to say, sorry folks we had a little problem in aisle 3 in the children's half pants off sale but everything is ok now! They would be shut down in a heart beat!
If you go to (http://www.bishop-accountability.org/settlements/) you can see the vast and I mean vast numbers of pedophilia settlements the church has paid out in the US alone.
Thank you biblelegal person. What are considered the top 5% of the top scientists in the world were surveyed and more than 90% acknowledged that there is something we will never understand that is responsible for life. Anyhow, the Catholic church for hundreds of years has given more to scientific and medical research than any other government or organization in the world. If you look way back at the ancient scriptures there are a few lines that really make a person think. One is that the world, planets, sun, and stars are round and that the moon revolves around the earth, the earth the sun and so on. Another is something about how man will always chase after the origins of life but they will always elude him as they become smaller and smaller... now that we are getting into sub atomic particles... hmmm. And there are a bunch more, but who cares right?
Trust verify, if the only words you can come up with are "pedophile", or "fox news", or "bush", then go find a different talking point website to get your memos from and get something new. OK, so, go take a look at the size of your city, then look at how many cases of child molestation were alleged and brought to trial and number of actual convictions. Then look up just how many convicted or accused pedophiles you have living in your own city that your society has sent back to live among the rest of your community unknown. Then call your mayor a molester and pedophile out in public day after day, and complain that your entire city is nothing but a bunch of "perverts" as you put it, you being included. Then say your entire city should be done away with. Then extrapolate that to your state, the country, the world... all of life. Terrific.
A man who calmly stands for what’s right and just, as long as that means encouraging hatred of gays and blaming them for everything, like the total annihilation of nuclear families everywhere and a secret "war" on humanity and traditional marriage. Standing for the subjugation of women's reproductive rights, standing for the vengeful god of the old testament, standing for the 15th and 16th centuries, where his beliefs come from.
Oh joy. A new hate monger. He goes on and on about how loving and caring and humble he is, yet his resume is filled with gay hatred, so much he tried to get Gay Adoption termed as being "discrimination against children". I can't help but feel this Pope is going to do the exact same thing that the other Pope did? Mandate that hatred and discrimination is more important than helping your fellow man. Hopefully the Nuns will show him the way... but I'm not counting on it.
Jake, why confuse a persons beliefs with the interpretation of the U.S. constitution? Are you that limited by your own hatred and inner guilt from denial? After reading your comment, maybe you were typing quickly or something, but it makes no sense. Oh well.
I was hoping for a pope with the last name sicola so we could have pope sicola. If that didn't happen I figured pope Ringo George would be good since John Paul took the other two Beatles years ago. You may think I sound silly...about as silly as the goofy outfits the pope wears and grown adults waiting for smoke signals.
He believes in continuing to overpopulate the planet,therefor I am against him.
biblegal What are you smoking and what "bible are you reading? First of all evolution does not exclude a higher power involved. God created or not evolution certainly does exist, all you have to do is look at ANY life form and see how they evolve, like viruses becoming drug resistant.
As for the whole earth being round thing. If your bible says it then you are reading a piss poor translation, doctored to suit facts after.
One scientist? Or a poor one such as yourself? Hardly evidence of the Bible being true, all fiction uses a little fact. Frankly if you are looking for evidence that the Bible is fact then you missed the whole point to it.
And the literal 6 days of creation, so what of the dinosaurs? Not to mention that it is very unscientific and arrogant of you to assume that the definition of day might not have changed over time. I suggest you get a new version of The Bible, one closer to the actual translation, & read it for yourself.
I was hoping for a black Pope but unfortunately it didn't happen because the Vatican definitely in need of a little soul in da house. Just think....even the Church is keeping the black down, damn.
wolfpack2000, Catholic church leaders in Africa are some of the most conservative church leaders. They are anything BUT cool.
Trustverify,
I would say the United States military, although it isn't children being raped. But rape is a big problem - and it gets covered up quite a bit.
"Pope Francis, the first man in the modern era from outside Europe to lead the Roman Catholic Church, prizes compassion, humility and simplicity — so much that he gave up his chauffeur in Argentina and took the bus to work."
To be politically correct, let me start with: best of luck to the Pope Francis!
Most religious leaders start like these.
But they slowly end up more in rituals than change with the times and contribute something positive to the religion, society, nation and world!
Catholic churches in most places are going down hill as they are still caught up in time wrap!
"CALMLY STANDS FOR WHAT'S RIGHT AND JUST", barks the headline.
Sounds like he's in the wrong job in the wrong place, to me.
I believe science and Christianity coexist, that is God created everything from the beginning of time as we know it. The bible says that there will be mysteries. God reveals what he wants to reveal in the time he wants us to discern it. We have to have something to keep us preoccupied with-curiosity and intelligence will make us question. I believe God expects this from us. There has to something bigger than us. the complexity of this world cannot be explained away from "The Big Bang Theory" or simply evolution. God is the author of everything.
Nogales Jack... hey, since you are so concerned about overpopulation of the planet..... well, you know, and take a few of your cohorts with you. Seems like the right thing for you to do. Live your beliefs!! oh wait, I mean...
the anti-catholic crowd is out in force today on the vine Remember it is a organization run by mere mortals, they have mad so real boo boo mistakes in the past 2000 years; they have also made great strides in medicine, law, food production and most of all education, on a world wide basis.
POPE FRANCIS SURE ISN'T TALKING ABOUT THIS.....
Nice post @MkeMike, I was raised Roman Catholic and once I was old enough to reason I gladly left. The truth is not a welcome virtue in the church. The church is nothing more than a control mechanism of the elite to keep the sheeple in line.
Enclosed is some additional information on the new Pope's complicity with General Videla's crimes against humanity.
Former Cardinal and Pope-elect “Francis I”, Jorge Mario Bergoglio, is accused of helping kidnap opponents of Argentina’s military junta during the 1970′s “Dirty War”, and of baby trafficking, by lawyers and members of the Plaza de Mayo human rights group. (Los Angeles Times, April 17, 2005, “Argentine Cardinal Named in Kidnapping Lawsuit”,http://articles.latimes.com/2005/apr/17/world/fg-cardinal17
General Jorge Rafael Videla and some of his military and police cohorts were convicted by their country’s courts of the murder of 31 people between April and October 1976, a small fraction of the killings they were responsible for. What one did not hear from any senior member of the Argentine hierarchy was any expression of regret for the church’s collaboration and in these crimes. The extent of the church’s complicity in the dark deeds was excellently set out by Horacio Verbitsky, one of Argentina’s most notable journalists, in his book El Silencio (Silence). He recounts how the Argentine navy with the connivance of Cardinal Jorge Bergoglio, now the Jesuit archbishop of Buenos Aires, hid from a visiting delegation of the Inter-American Human Rights Commission the dictatorship’s political prisoners. Bergoglio was hiding them in nothing less than his holiday home in an island called El Silencio in the River Plate. The most shaming thing for the church is that in such circumstances Bergoglio’s name was allowed to go forward in the ballot to chose the successor of John Paul II. What scandal would not have ensued if the first pope ever to be elected from the continent of America had been revealed as an accessory to murder and false imprisonment.
To the post here " The fact that he is not into the Prada Slippers and gold is a good sign "
I understand the shoes are not Prada, it is a shame on Prada not to acknowledge that mistake. The shoes are handmade by a local italian shoemaker who donates them, makes it on his own time while also operating a shoe store front established by his father. Several Heads of States and Presidents have ordered from this local shoemaker.
Humility is a great virtue but Pope Francis will have to accept the fact that he now have to give up some things that he used to do like taking the bus daily, cooking his own meals, etc. His life changed becoming a priest, it changed even more now that he is the pope. Viva Il Papa Francis.
Oh geez, the second law of thermodynamics? Really? You do realize that law is based on a closed environment. The universe is not a closed environment. Ask your husband if that taught that in his physics class.
Second, no scientist worth their salt would ever just blurt out statement containing such an absolute. Thing don't just come together and evolve? It's obvious to me why you were unable to attain your degree.
If you knew anything about natural selection you would know it is anything but random or spontaneous. The rest is just fallacious equivocation.
The earth is not round. It's spherical. Round is still a two dimensional shape and sitting on pillars (you forgot that part). It also makes several references to being able to see the entire earth from a mountain top. (Daniel 4:10-11, Mathew 4:8) Not sure how you can arrive at those conclusions on a spherical surface.
Funny thing about science, which I would at least expect you would understand having been a science major, is that ideas change as new evidence is found.
You however are trying to go the other route and reconcile any evidence to suit your ideas (ie bible reconciliation).
Your husband doesn't build airplanes or anything I would ever need to ride in does he?
Not a big fan of the "papal culture", even though I am a Catholic. But it is refreshing to see that they picked someone known for his humility, his frugality, and his compassion. Lately they have been all about conservative theology and towing the church line. That's fine, I guess, but then the rest of the world will leave them behind and they will find themselves less and less relevant. At least these traits are more in line with what the original church was about.
From your mouth to God's ear, at least figuratively speaking. Bravo to you!
Let us hope his compassion extends to women living in poverty. The Church should have made birth control a sacrament 100 years ago.
The Church should have made birth control a sacrament 100 years ago.
You might want to consider that birth control was highly controvertial a mere 50 years ago, and in a "rich" place like Connecticut. Google Griswold v. Connecticut to see what i mean.
The Catholic Church is about conservative theology? Well, in matters of sexual morality, you might say that, otherwise Her stances range over liberal and conservative. The two political terms really don't even fit when it comes to the Church. Contrary to your statement, the Church is always relevant. It will become more and more so in relation to modernism as more and more people see through the smoke and mirrors of pop culture and disparity in the world.
Mark from Bridgeport - what do you expect with Chevy Chase as the plaintiff?
On a more serious note, it seems that as a Cardinal, Francis I was adamantly opposed to free contraceptives. That's ironic and disappointing as a supposed champion of the poor. Having a large number of dependent children is a huge impediment to economic advancement.
Give up ALL that you have and come follow me. Take purse nor scrip for your journey. Any preacher with more than one suit is a charlatan. Three quotes; two biblical, one secular. When I was in school in 1970 I remarked to the nun teaching me that the Apostles were communists. After threats of hell, paddling, and detentions, she asked me where I got my information. I told her The Acts of the Apostles in the new testament, where all gave EVERYTHING to Peter and he distributed ALL according to their needs ( except for Ananias and his wife - read about it). When the Church gets back to it's original mission, and not being an acculumator of wealth and privilige, then I think things will be better. The quotes were from Jesus Christ and Lenny Bruce, two opposite ends of the spectrum, but on the same wavelength. It's very easy to talk the talk and call others hypocrites and sinners, but people who live the faith in their daily lives and dealings with others, usually are not the egotists profiting from religion or arguing one part of the Bible while leaving other more important parts out.
I am delighted with this choice. Although I didn't know much about him he seems to be a gift from God. Also he looks like my father did years ago. Maybe God is talking to me. I shall pray for him.
I use "conservative" in the manner of opposing change in how it operates, not in the political term of "Conservative" that is thrown about today. The church is in a unique position that crosses many political boundaries. Liberal in some issues, Conservative in others. But it continues to operate in as a medieval kingdom, which many people simply can't relate to any more.
While I am not going to necessarily doubt that might fit your particular case, it would be wrong of you to suggest it is some kind of universal law for all populations on Earth. In some areas of the world, having children is a lot like having slave labor in the fields/farm -- they increase a family's productivity. And if you have 12 kids, for example, the likelihood of one of them becoming independently wealthy increases -- which thereby increases your own chances at survival if you should fall on hard times. Families are a far more fundamental unit than government.
Christ commanded us to, "Pray ONLY to the Father and Only through me."
So tell me where the "Hail Mary" comes from?
Christ commanded "Call no man your father for God the father is your father.
So tell me why every Catholic priest asks that you call him father?
Mt 3:9 Jesus calls Abraham "father".
Hail Mary: the first part comes right out of the bible. In the second part we are asking Mary to pray to God for us
Really.....are you serious ??? Why...? I don't think God needs our prayers.
Ephesians 6:1-2 St. Paul quotes the 4th commandment. So that elminates our natural fathers.
Luke 16:24 Jesus calls Abraham, Father Abraham
Romans 4:1-18 Paul calls Abraham Father 7 times
James 2:21 James calls Abraham Father Abraham
1 John 2:13 John refers to elders as Fathers exhorting them to teach their spiritual sons
1 Corithians 4:14:15 Paul says, you have 10,000 instructors in the Lord Jesus, you have not yet
many fathers, I have become your father through the Gospel.
Ephesians 3:15 I give thanks to the father, for all fatherhoods.
The questions isn't why do we, rather why don't you call your ministers father, everyone in the bible does?
The Roman rulers at that time, where demanding the people refer to them as "father gods", Jesus was rebuking that in Matthew 23:9.
Hail Mary - Luke 1:28
If the angel of God has no problem addressing the Mother of God with a title, why do you?
wolfpack2000- I'm no expert in the matter, I certainly try and listen to anyone who has anything to say about it. I know something everyone has in common is suffering, usually that suffering is felt when we lose our first love. You remember how strong your love was for that person, wouldn't you have done anything? Now imagine God is pure love and is waiting for YOU to talk to him, would you consider it a need? Now we want to talk to God properly, he is the absence of sin and we don't want sin in our hearts while we talk to him. When done properly, prayer can be a good way for us to talk to God without our brains going in the wrong direction. Catholics ask Mary to pray to God for them, this can be a powerful way of hoping to get a message to God even when our own sin might otherwise prevent it.
The " Hail Mary " prayer is asking for the Mother of God to intervene for us.
@LOVE JESUS- as sincere as i beleive you are; you seem to have been taught to read the scriptures the "catholic" way. Matthew 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. there is nothing in scripture that mentions the term "father god". that is a new-age term (father god and mother earth) that term should never be used by a Bible believing Christian.
as for the "hail mary" reference. that again is how the catholics teach you. the word hail is a dominant greeting. it has no reverence to it. also, the scriptures clearly denounce "vain repetitious prayers".
Don't they raise a lot of sheep in Argentina?
From sheep to sheeple.
Kinda ironic......
What's your problem? If you need to attempt to belittle Catholicism in particular or religion in general, have the balls to come out and say what you mean.
Thought I did, KC.
But I'll make it clearer for you.
Sheeple follow superstition blindly.
Sheeple are church followers, the church, as pompously demonstrated in Rome over the past week, is pomp and superstition.
Comprende vous?
celtic.....but, the Good Shepard will take care of his flock, while you will wander off alone....
celtic - you got a thing for sheep do ya?
I've raised sheep - great lawnmowers on 4 feet
Celtic. I really feel sorry for you. You're the problem; the Pope is the one with the solution.
Bravo! You pinned the tail on that donkey for sure!
I see this selection as a vote for the same. The catholic church is not going to change in this century. Maybe next century. Until the church starts handing over pedophile priest and recognizes many gay catholics and allows women to become priests the churh will slowly die.
God Bless, celtic. See nycguy, Jarhead, and especially, steve. I rest my case. I'll pray for you for the Lord to erase your bitterness. Also, I speak both Spanish and French. Leave the espanfrancais to me....
No, GOD is the one with the solution. May the glory be to him.
brainwashed...
Religion is a crutch for those too weak to stand by themselves.
If you need a crutch in your life, fine.
Just don't assume everyone else has the same disability.......
Celtic:::: Tell us which crutch you live by????
Science is as much of a crutch as religion. Both evoke the principle that one can have faith something exists without actual proof, both are inventions of man needing something bigger than himself to believe in. At least with religion, a believer can turn inward to find the answers. This concept is just beginning to evolve in scientific research. But scientists will have to formulate a theory first, then prove it repeatedly before they will call it a 'fact', whereas those who believe in God see God everywhere around them and need no other proof. I think those who rely solely on science as their crutch are far more disabled than any religious person. At least those who have Faith of some sort don't believe themselves to be the center of the 'rational' universe.
:-)
With free thought, free spirit, and free will
No crutches there, friend.
Just living life as it comes.
Charles, science is documented and can be replicated.
Religion is based on belief and superstition, not fact.
Big difference.
If it works for you, fine.
Actually , Celtic, being Welsh I find you annoying. But yes they do they also raise some of the best beef in the world. St. David is looking at you.
Celtic---enjoy your remaining days on this Earth, as your eternity of agony in Hell is not far off. That's not superstition.
That's the part I don't like about the Church and its minions: someone says something you don't agree with, and immediately its hellfire and brimstone and you'll suffer an eternity of it. Religion is about your journey and how to live right. Jesus taught there were a few basic rules: love god, love your neighbor as yourself, and don't judge your neighbor. I find it hard to see him telling someone to enjoy your short life because you're gonna burn in hell, son.
That may be right according to the dogma of some churches, but it sure ain't Christian.
Aw but Celtic you are wrong you see science says there are atoms but I cannot see them; but I can see everything that God has created: earth, trees, flowers, birds need I go on? So how can science be replicated and documented if I can't see it?
I'm thinking that Jarhead is not a Marine. His head really is a jar. Full of crap.
Sheryl: Ahhh the Fairy Tale that controls weak minds is alive and well I see. You ought to watch George Carlins take on Religion sometime. It's just great. Oh, and be careful, you are being watched from above. Whhooooo.
Hey Jetjoky. 27 years in uniform....how about you? And I'm not thinking you're full of crap---I KNOW you are. Questions?
Religion is nothing more than another man made drug. It is there to help people face the unknown. Ironic isn't it that Jesus supposedly preached love, compassion, and tolerance but the Catholic Church isn't any of those things. It is an organization run by nothing but elderly males too out of touch with the world. Kinda reminds one of the republicans in this country.
Lots of things can't be seen directly, but can be documented, tested, and repeated. Air. Electricity. Gravity. Light. You fail to understand science, clearly.
God however, cannot be proved by physical reactions. It is kind of the point of religion that it must be taken on faith alone that god exists. If there was physical proof that one existed, that could be tested and repeatedly confirmed, there would be no debate and it would not be a matter of faith.
Jarhead, typical bigoted intolerance and hatred from the religious. You are one sick individual and your fairy tales scare no one.
NormALe, you and so many libs just cannot understand how anyone could pray to anyone but the government! I am not a religious man, but, I will not abide the intolerance of liberal religion haters! Please use the same tolerance that you preach! Oh, I forgot, that is for people who believe EXACTLY the same as you do!
AbNormALc--typical atheist response. Is that the best you got, little man? Ha Ha.
@ Jarhead
27 years in uniform...? You sounded more like a silly school girl than a soldier boy. If you wanted people to think you're tough.....try shutting the fuk up. Tough guys don't argue....they just stomp a mud-hole in your ass and tell you it's nothing personal..... It's just reflex.
Nothing to see here folks. Let the Vatican kill its own Church in peace.
Celtic, as an atheist I agree with the basis of your position but the dismissal of religion is a concern. The Pope has the potential to wield tremendous power so who is elected matters, if for nothing else than one of the last remaining large-scale bulwarks against forces of globalization that subjugate and impoverish. Clearly he has an opinion on the matter. John Paul II used the papacy to speak about the ills of capitalism, Benedict couldn't manage a bureaucracy and contributed very little on the matter, and hopefully now Francis will take up John Paul's mantle at a time when humility and compassion are sorely needed; not as religious virtues but as secular, civic values. How his economic views will be balanced against his social conservatism in his management of the church is an open question.
Religion is a crutch for those too weak to stand by themselves.
If you need a crutch in your life, fine.
Just don't assume everyone else has the same disability.......
I will be the first to admit religion has been the problem all along. We need to understand the difference between religion and Christianity. It takes study, observance and meditation to do this. Christ is the answer, not religion. Our human frailties will always be the problem. we can strive to be like Christ, oh such a humble, I say HUMBLE SERVANT. What would the world be like if we all strive to be humble servants. No ego, no jealousy or hatred, just unconditional love. I believe the man did this for us. I can only believe there is something bigger than me, and I must give homage and thanks to-whatever you want to call him/her.
@imwhitewolf..... Jesus Christ was in my opinion the greatest teacher the earth has seen. He was straightforward, honest, and said Himself that if you cannot believe in His divinity, then believe in the work He does. You cannot blame Jesus for future idiots twisting His words and teachings. He is and always will be mankinds greatest teacher.
Among the greatest teachers, certainly, but there have been other greats. Without getting into THAT particular debate, I'll agree the big problem is not the religious teachings of the founders, but rather how people afterwards manipulate them to enhance control over the institutions. Religion by itself is a way of learning how to live with others and the world. More like a philosophy. Instutional churches (or temples) are the ones that are run by ordinary people with rather common faults.
amazing how all of you people rely on a "person" about whom there are ONLY ANECDOTES and 50 year old hearsay accounts. Sounds like a distinct possibility that the whole thing is a sham. Now don't get me wrong - the "message" of peace and love your neighbor is good, but the DOGMA suffers from GUILT BY ASSOCIATION.
Great. Another old white man. Perhaps that's not fair in that there probably weren't any other candidates to choose from, but since most of the world isn't made up of old white men, it's hard to see how he can represent the masses. Jesus sure wasn't an old white man.
AG.....and how would you know that, and what is your problem with white people?
AG99 - Argentina is a North American Latin country, so he is Latino. I would think Catholic minorities would be very happy about this choice.
CORRECTION: Argentina is a SOUTH American Latin country. Glad I corrected my own mistake before someone else did!
Smlfry2- No, no, no. Argentina is a SOUTH AMERICAN country. South America, way down below the Equator. South America is where a lot of Nazi's hid out after World War II. Argentina is the country that had the Falkland Islands War with Great Britain, and the Falkland Islands residents just voted to retain their ties to Great Britain as opposed to Argentina. Argentina is known for the disappearance of thousands at the hands of the military. This new pope will be familiar with all of this intrigue.
Yeah, He didn't get the chance to grow old. And, if you're an American, look how long it took you to elect a non-white man president! Glass houses, man.
smlfry2, Um, actually Argentina is a SOUTH American country.
@smlfry:
He's of Italian heritage. His parents were Italian emigrants. And he's got Italian name: Bergorlio.
Smlfry2 , Argentina is South American country...
Kolee - took America less than 250 years to elect a non white man - it has been at lease 2000 years and the Catholic Church has not done it yet.
kolee,
And look at the mess we are in because of him. Its sad our first non-white president will go down as one of the most damaging and rights abusing president of our time.
Holly.....not true, there were three African Popes already ....
@Hollykb: Kolee - took America less than 250 years to elect a non white man - it has been at lease 2000 years and the Catholic Church has not done it yet.
So... are Syrians white? There have been a least four Syrian Popes.
There have also been 3 African Popes:
* Pope Victor I was from Tripoli in Africa. Waaaaay back in 189 AD.
* Pope Miltiades was made Pope in 314 AD. He was a Berber.
* Pope Gelasius I was made Pope in 492 AD. He was also a Berber.
Seems to me some of you have too much time on your hands. Therefore you breed hate.
Well, well, well. What is this talk of "old white man"? He's from Argentina. In South America. That big continent where everyone in the U.S. classifies the people who emigrate to the U.S. as Latino/Hispanic, brown, and a minority. So, he's no more an "old white man" than any other U.S. citizen of Hispanic descent who checks the "I'm White, but of Hispanic descent" box on the U.S. Census, which is counted in the minority column on the final report.
Argentina has a large population of Italian's, German's, French and Spanish. Some 20% of the population claim Italian heritage and this Pope is a 3rd generation Italian, if I've read the reports correctly. Oh, and they gave the world the Tango....ole.
Geez MrBurn you act as if Obama lied about something and then used it to sink us into a long war that lost us lots of money we did not have. Sorry but he could burn down the white house in a wild party and still not top that. And yes i brought up Bush which i hate to do but you asked for it with your over exaggeration based on 0 facts.
Does it really matter what color is the new Pope. I could imagine what a black Pope would say standing over the balcony....
YO YO WASSSUP WASSSUP MY NIGGAS....THERE'S A NEW MOTTAFUKER IN DA HOUSE YO....U KNOW WAT IM SAYING.
That's crazy and you're ignorant.
So what's with the I after his name? Just go with Pope Francis; it's not like he's going to be confused with any other Pope Francises.
It's just like those having a "first annual" event. They assume there will be a second. Apparently some assume there will be a second Pope who chooses the name Francis.
Jombo -------- when Pope John Paul I selected his name, including the "I", he was told there can't be a I per se. Neverteless, he stuck to his guns and Lo & Behold, within weeks, we had a II. Some have suggested prophecy !!!
I wish the new Pope well, but I don't know why they can't choose a much younger man....
Because the Vatican needs the attention brought on them by a new Pope's election. In 10 years he will be 86, not to be mean, but you can only go so far... I most definitely wish him the best.
Well, the average Cardinal is 71-72 years old. There's only so deep a well to draw from!
There's also the argument that choosing an older person does not lock you into one person or philosophy for too long - built in obsolescence. With a younger person, you might end up with no chance for change or 30-50 years! Older people tend not to be so driven by hormone-induced emotions and fancies. I guess there are pluses and minuses on both sides.
Ingsd, I guess bible-induced emotions and fancies are better somehow?
After John Paul II (26 years), I don't think they want another long-term Pope for a while.
Technically, any Catholic adult male is eligible to become Pope. (If he is not yet a priest or bishop, he is ordained as such before taking the position of Pope.) However, at this point in time, it would be extremely rare for one who is not already a cardinal to be elected.
In regard to electing a younger Pope, obviously cardinals generally are age 50 or older. As pointed out, this works to the advantage of the Church by not locking it into one person's philosophy for too long a period of time. This is similar to the issue faced in the United States with the Justices of the Supreme Court. Due to the fact that they are appointed for life, we often live by rulings made by justices who are in their 80's (or beyond). Perhaps we would also benefit by a means (term or age limits?) of assuring that the justices are mentally and philosophically able to render decisions that are to the best advantage of the nation.
There is a very good reason justices are appointed for life. If congress gets power to limit them, then it is rightly feared they will use this to influence the justices. Based on every politician out there i could defiantly see that as possible.
The new Pope looks like a kind man. God Bless him and the task he must do.
Let's hope the new Pope and VP Biden get a ride on the same bus so he can straighten him out about abortion!!
WAKE UP AMERICA
Boy Kenny,
How right you are. The fact the Biden even calls himself a Catholic is a joke.
A man who cooked his own meals as Archbishop can't be all bad. Maybe a good choice.
God bless our Holy Father!!!
the Holy father is GOD. Not the man that became the pope he is only a man
No True Catholic believes the Pope is God, that's just ignorance. But know this even Jesus called Abraham, "Father Abraham".
Abram (a high father) had his name changed by God to Abraham, which in Hebrew means father of multitude. God said that he would be the father of many nations.
He is Holy because we are all called to be Holy according to Peter the 1st Pope.
for it is written: "Be holy, because I am holy." 1 Peter 1:16
Luke 16:24 - So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'
Now anyone can becomes God......then, i must be God.
I am not a Roman Catholic, but I wish this man well - he has a most difficult job to do. God bless him with wisdom and a long life.
The press reports from the Vatican haven't come out yet but isn't it more likely that he chose Francis for Francis Xavier, another Jesuit?
According to reports he chose the name for St. Francis of Assisi.
"In the first act of his papacy, he chose the name Francis, becoming the namesake of St. Francis of Assisi, who gave up his riches and chose a life of poverty and prayer."
I believe the reporter said that, Francis didn't. Lisa - you could be right.
I think This reporter is incorrect and we will discover Francis was indeed named after Francis Xavier - a student of Ignatias of Loyola and co-founder of the Society of Jesus (Jesuits) with Ignatius.
No Jesuit in his right mind would name himself after a Franciscan ;-)
I have to agree with others that a reporter or "papal expert" just jumped to that conclusion.
A step forward. Keep opening those windows and letting the fresh air in, Church!
New pope and, still, there will be no change...I will remain a lapsed Catholic.
Nice to see you're keeping an open mind!
I'm very pleased the new Pope is from Latin America, a Jesuit and not a Vatican "insider". I wish him a productive and successful reign. If he indeed follows in the footsteps of his namesakes, Francis of Assisi and Francis Xavier, he will be a fitting leader.
Sure hope God leads him to a better vision of women than the last popes. Much seems good but the Catholic vision of women has been so repressive and oppressive.
Do not confuse religious doctrine and political doctrine. Also do not attempt to force one over the other, they are completely separate. If your first concern is about equality of women in a well known religious doctrine that has held its own line for over 2000 years, you have a skewed view of how things work in Catholicism.
Your personal desires and wants are not their concern as it relates to religion. To even suggest they need to change it, well in short you don't have that right. All you can do is hope.
As compared to what Dorothy, Islam?
What was his role during the years of military dictatorship in Argentina?
His stand on gender equality, the role of women in the church, and his age does not depict a change to the better of the roman church. I hope I am wrong.
There's some debate going on already in the webisphere about his activities during the military dictatorship. I'm sure that will come out more as the euphoria dies down.
Here we go again . . . The brutal military dictatorship! The newly written Argentine history has wiped out entirely the horrible crimes commited by the Montoneros and the ERP, and only those old enough to have lived through the events can tell the truth. Violence begets violence, and if the cruelty shown by one party is deplorable, so should be for the other.Of course, Montoneros is at the helm of the country today, and they are not going to admit any wrongdoing! Add to that all the fuel thrown to the fire by foreign political mavericks, and it will not be very difficult to find any number of writings chastising the new Pope.
Looks like a humble, unassuming man. Maybe he will make the church more christian and less demonic.
I'm not Catholic, but I think the Pope is cool. Well, John Paul was anyway. This guy looks kind. The idea that he's taken a vow of humility and poverty is good. Means he has an idea of what the normal folk are up against. I hope he sticks to his ideals. I also thought it was great that he asked the people to pray for him. He'll need all the help he can get, and seems to realize that.
I wish him all the best of luck. May God bless him.
The final pope is here. Now the countdown has begun...
sure thing booby - IF you believe that BULLS HIT...
So, Pro, how does a Pope from Argentina fit into the "Papal End of Days" theory? I believe the "Last Pope" is supposed to be "Peter from Rome", or some such nonsense.
@put a fork in it: Put a fork in it... your butt
@billybob- if you knew anything about the papal prophecies you'd know these names were not formal. But then you'd need to be able to read first before any comprehension could take place so good luck.
oooohh - associated BULLS HIT, eh? IF you had two brain cells to rub together they would be a PAIR (and you don't HAVE a pair)
Juergen - none of the current batch of Cardinals could be considered liberal on gender equality, etc. Anyone hoping the Church would find someone who is open minded is deluding themselves. This whole thing is interesting to watch from a histoerical perspective, but as a non-Catholoic my opinion doesn't count - maybe it does because the Catholic Church does think that it has the right to dictate morality globally.
Yeah, like the US doesn't do the same thing? Get off the horse, its dead.
but as a non-Catholoic my opinion doesn't count - maybe it does because the Catholic Church does think that it has the right to dictate morality globally.
Of course it doesn't count. By the same token, your morality isn't governed by the Church either. So what's the dif? It's not like you're being forced to buy health insurance or pay a penalty but your vote for President didn't count or something...
Interesting aside on the choice of Francis. In his fictional account of an American Pope -- The Vicar of Christ -- Walter Murphy had the pope choose the name of Francis -- referencing both the simplicity of Francis of Assissi (founder of the Franciscan) and the zeal of Francis Xavier (one of the early Jesuits). As the new pope is a Jesuit, but appears to have lived adopted some of the simpler lifestyle of the Franciscan, you have to wonder if the new pope draws some of the same inspirations of that fictional pope. Given that the church still needs some of the reforms suggested in that novel, one can only hope.
I read that book. Good read.
Hopefully his focus on the poor in the past, will mean that will be what the church focuses on going forward, and they can shut up about condemning gay people. Latin Americans are the largest and fastest growing Catholic sect. This is great for everyone involved, and Im not even Catholic.
As I reflect this past few weeks, I am reminded (I am not Catholic.) that GOD chooses those HE knows will lead HIS people home. It does not matter what faith you are. We need to be reminded that GOD will not put up with hate between mankind nor will HE let the poorer become poorer. The meek will inherit the Earth. This is why Jesus said to look at the field lilies and the sparrows. The field lilies was the presentation of our clothes and the sparrows of the food. We need to be more thankful of what we have daily and not what we can get. We have become a shameful world. It is not just in the United States, but the whole world has gone mad. Neighbors no longer visit with each other. Television shows aren't worth watching and are not decent. Would you let your child watch someone talking about sex or having it? We live in a world that does not value ourselves as children of GOD. We all have to be accountable for judgment day.
Congratulations to Pope Francis.
Already I hear he is a man of the poor. And now he has the bankroll of a monarch. Already I hear he is humble. And I also hear he is now infallible. Am I watching a Monty Python sketch?
Let the cognitive dissonance begin!
he is now infallible....
* In matters of dogma only.
Thank you, Mark.
I'm sorry. What was that? You said he is infallible? Are you for real? That's exactly what I said. Nobody is infallible. Are you being silly?
You're displaying some of that cognitive dissonance aren't you! Don't be shy! You have a humble man who claims to be infallible.
Pardon me while I...
BUWHAAAAAHHAHAHAHAAAAAAAA!
The pope is infallible only in matters of faith and morals...
See for yourself, the Catholic beliefs do not change with fads or whims...
We, Christians and Catholics, believe in a Holy Spirit...part of the trinity of God...The Holy Spirit guides the pope.
A verse in bible referring to pope's infallibility. To Peter, he says:
Matthew 16:19 "I will entrust to you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you declare bound on earth shall be bound in heaven; whatever you declare loosed on earth shall be loosed in heaven."