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Dan Kitwood / Getty Images
Nuns talk in St Peter's Square after newly elected Pope Francis appeared on the central balcony of St. Peter's Basilica on March 13, 2013 in Vatican City.
As the last puffs of white smoke dissipated at the Sistine Chapel on Wednesday, women religious in the United States received the news of the pope's election with a mix of surprise and hope that he would shepherd the church through its current crisis.
Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio of Argentina was chosen to lead the Roman Catholic Church as Pope Francis, a decision the nuns considered unexpected but auspicious.
"I think it's just wonderful," said Sister Michele of the Sisters of Charity of Our Lady Mother of the Church. “The Holy Spirit worked through the cardinals, and God put in the man that he wants."
Francis is the first pope to be a member of the Society of Jesus, an order founded in the 16th century by St. Ignatius Loyola. Its members, known as Jesuits, take a vow of poverty and are known for their scholarship and work among the poor, which is seen as a draw to nuns, who devote their lives to charity and caring for the less fortunate.
Nuns flock to the Vatican and celebrate as new pope is elected
“There’s a lot of promise in that (he’s a Jesuit),” said Erin Saiz Hanna, executive director of the Women's Ordination Conference, which promotes women's ordination as priests. "It’s a breath of fresh air," she said, adding that Jesuits "are known to be more progressive."
The Sisters of Life, an order founded in 1991 that helps pregnant women and organizes a retreat for women who have had abortions, welcomed the news with "great joy," Sister Mary Elizabeth said.
“We're praying for [Francis], and we’re excited to see what the Holy Spirit brings," she said. "We’re all part of the family of God; we would rejoice no matter where he came from."
Sister Mary Elizabeth added that her order believes there’s a complementarity between men and women in the church, and they embrace their role modeled after the Virgin Mary, "a humble handmaid of the Lord."
The church's attitude toward women and its teachings on contraception, abortion and same-sex marriage are blamed by some for the decline in morale among Catholics. Last year, thousands stepped up in defense of American nuns after the Vatican's doctrinal watchdog issued a report questioning their loyalty to some church teachings, including the nuns' lack of outspokenness on issues such as gay marriage, abortion and contraception. (Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger was the head of the watchdog group before he was elected pope in 2005.)
The report targeted the Leadership Conference of Women Religious, which represents about 80 percent of the 57,000 nuns in the United States.
Sister Annmarie Sanders, director of communications for the Leadership Conference, said Wednesday that while the sisters were surprised by the conclave's decision, they welcomed Francis with "heartfelt prayer."
"As a conference of leaders of orders of Catholic sisters in the United States, we welcome Pope Francis I’s spiritual leadership and look forward to working with him in carrying forward the Gospel message," LCWR's statement read.
A Pew Research Center poll conducted last month shows that 46 percent of U.S. Catholics surveyed think the new pope should "move in new directions," while 51 percent say he should "maintain traditional positions."
Hanna, of the Women's Ordination Conference, says she has "a lot of hope" that the new pope will address issues such as gay rights, divorce and contraception, which cause some women to feel excluded from the church.
And, she added, she hopes Francis will reopen the discussion on women's ordination.
Last year, Pope Benedict XVI denounced the priests supporting women's ordination, saying their desire to change the church was a "desperate push" driven by their "own preferences and ideas." Instead, Benedict urged the "radicalism of obedience."
But Hanna and Janice Sevre-Duszynska, a woman priest who was ordained in 2008, think the movement is growing and the time is ripe for women's voices to be heard.
"We deserve a better church than what we’ve been given," Hanna said.
Dmitry Lovetsky / AP
Cardinals from around the world gathered in the Vatican to elect the next leader of the Roman Catholic Church following then-Pope Benedict XVI's resignation. On the second day of the conclave, Argentine Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio was elected pope, taking on the name Pope Francis.
Leave a Comment:
I wish him well and hope he serves the Church for a long time with distinction.
I am glad we chose a Jesuit from the Western Hemisphere, a new pope from the new world...
He may be a step in the right direction,but he seems to be for continuing to over populate the earth so I am against him. We need a new direction.
He is a true holy man, humble by the way the Lord works. God helps those who helps themselves. The jesuits mean the order of Jesus.
Proof that this article is bias propaganda for the huge maffia organization called the catholic church,...in that it fails to mention exactly what a 'Jesuit' really is,...a secret 'military' religious order.
So many in Ireland will also celebrate St Patricks day,...clueless at what this really means as well. St Patrick was under the orders of the Catholic Church during late 400 AD working closely with the Jesuit knights to irradicate Ireland of the druidic wisdom keepers. The symbol of the snake has always been the symbol of wisdom within the mystic school religions, and the killing of so many original shamans of Ireland allowed for the Church to extend its cult like belief system into the untaited land of lost history...how so few can see the reality of what is really going on behind the scenes.
Surely news media now is just a mockery of human inteligence,...as those in the know are aware of the true bloodshed created by the Jesuit order, with conflict and war its prime objective. With the rubber stamp of this order now running the richest religion in the world.
why do cathlics worship the pope as their god,..is he not a man
Don't think I'm an apologist for the Catholic Church, but I know enough about it that you are sadly misinformed. Popes are not worshiped or prayed to. The Pope is seen as the head of the universal church in the tradition of St. Peter, who was the first bishop of Rome and the first Pope, according to their belief. What on earth made you think the Pope is worshiped?
Wow, so much ignorance and misinformation about the Catholic faith... I don't know why I'm surprised. The Pope is a man; he can be any Catholic male in good standing. The cardinals usually elect other cardinals, at least in the modern age. The Pope is not worshiped; he is revered and loved as the Vicar of Christ, first among equals under God, and the head of our Church.
The Jesuits are not a military organization, they are educators (like the Dominicans, Filipini's, and Sisters of St. Joseph) and are currently educating a million and a half students worldwide. Many of the Catholic colleges in the US were founded by the Jesuits (Society of Jesus), like Georgetown, Boston College, Marquette, Gonzaga and many more. They take a vow of poverty and are known for their educated ranks, scholarship and their outreach to the poor and disenfranchised. Holy, dedicated, pious men... be afraid, be very afraid. Good Lord, people, educate yourselves before (!) you post.
you all treat this idiot like god, get a grip before you all rot in he11 watch for the antichrist
And how long did it take NBC to find the angle to push their agenda? Not long at all. Not long at all.
Of course the author of this article is so uninformed she fails to identify the leading factor of today's events.
your all a bunch of idiots
2000 years this has been happening. And tiny little you and your tiny worthless comment think your worth the smell of a fart passing in the wind?
Thanks for the laugh.
The title of the article:
Well... the new Pope has a girl's first name...
I hope he does well but I was hoping for a younger Pope, one that is more in touch with today's world. Pope Francis at 76 has maybe 10 to 15 years and can he bring the church into modern times during that time. I am happy we have a Pope from the Americas even if he is from south America at least he is not from Italy or Europe again. Dancing Francis can be either it is in how it is spelled "is" is male and "es" is female I am Frances the female first name.
The Society of Jesus (Jesuits) was founded in the 16th century. They cannot possibly have had anything to do with St. Patrick in his time, which was the 5th or 6th century. Read the article all the way through before you comment.
Hmm, it's spelled Francis, not Frances which is the "girl" spelling, LOL.
There is NO way that this Pope will foster women ordination. Nor will he promote gay marriage or even contraceptives. I am seeing MANY here that have no idea what the Church stands for or even the teachings. BTW, we do NOT worship anyone but God; Father, Son and Holy Spirit. We do hold the Saints and the Blessed Mother in high esteem and ask them to pray with us and for us but worship? NOT.
How can so many who profess intelligence be so ignorant about a church they rail against? The Pope is not worshiped, nor is he seen as god. Just going with the pack, is it? Forwarding the popular spoon fed opinion of current affairs is far easier than doing any constructive research of your own apparently. What a bunch of mindless drones you are.
That's the trouble with a pack mentality, no room for independent thought. You believe what the pack tells you. You target what they point you and your ignorance at. Pity, you all are just lemmings being lead to the cliff by those who would like nothing better than for you to rush over the edge. For my part, the sooner you leap off the better. You annoy those of us who still do think for ourselves. No, I'm not a Catholic. Fact is, I adhere to no organized religion.
However, I am aware that were it not for the Catholic church and it's charitable organization millions around the world would starve to death, freeze to death, and sleep in allies with far greater frequency than they do. That includes here in the U.S., Europe and other less pleasant parts of the world. You sight a relatively small number of bad priests and justification or your own militant atheism as justification. What have you self professed "intellectuals" done to better the human condition lately? How many millions have you fed, clothed or sheltered? None? How can that be when you view yourselves as perfect? Grow up, get a life, get a job, hell, get a dog but stop professing intellect when your own words betray you so completely.
Nostradumbass,
You WILL bow down to the Almighty BungHole. CornHolio.
"Women" have always had promise if they are Catholic. The only i.....s that comment one way or the other aren't Catholic at all, and in my opinion really don't care for the Catholic Church. I'm not Catholic but really...just leave them alone?? It's called freedom of religion.
Unbelievable crowd of idiots, morons, crazies, bigots, Catholic haters and ignorants who can hardly write two coherent lines on this thread!!!
Here's a suggestion to all who don't like Catholicism, its tenets, its theology, and its practices... Do us all a favor and go stifle yourselves! There are plenty of heretic protestant and quasi-pagan cults and sects in this country that may satisfy your ridiculous whims and demands to be free to contracept, kill children in the womb and accept homosexual practices as "normal", so go join them!
They will also accept angry, ranting lesbian ultra-feminists who endlessly scream for 'the right' to be priests, bishops and Pope. Got news for you ladies (and this goes as well for the gentlemen who humor these harridans), these 'perks' are not forthcoming if you wish to remain Catholic! So get over it and leave already; go join the Episcopalians whose theology is elastic in every possible regard, no one is holding you captive in our Church!
The Christian/Catholic faith was created by Jesus so that we may know and love Him in obedience, self-giving and sacrifice; so that we may obey His commandments, and at the end of our life be with Him in heaven. He said: "If you love me, take up your cross and follow me..." He did not say, ' If you follow me, I promise you'll get to do your will, and satisfy your whims in every possible way.'
One further suggestion to help you either remain in the fold and be content, or finally get the H out: First, you should do yourselves a favor and check out some reputable, non-biased history tomes from the library, along with a series of books called "The Fathers of the Church" to get a clue on how the post-Apostolic Church functioned, and what it believed. Then find out who exactly it was that gave you the bible and proceed to thank us profusely, since if that task had been left to protestants it would have NEVER come about! It's a fact that no two protestants can agree with each other on what a single verse says, much less on sitting long enough with each other to produce an entire book.
Um, and how was that possible since the Jesuit order was not founded until more than 1,000 years later? By the way, I'm Atheist so I certainly don't believe in any superstitious nonsense, catholic or not. I just don't like it when idiotic statements are made.
For all your long rant you fail to address one critical subject....You accuse all those who follow scripture but not catholic tradition of not following Christ while ignoring the fact that the catholic church it's self does not follow Christ teachings.
You guys treat the Cathlic chruch like it is a political party. They are not out to make everyone happy. They are not out to change their beliefs becuase the "Modern Era" has changed it's views. They believe in the Bible, which I am not a believer, and the Bible and their God tells them that homosexuality is a sin. They believe that contraception is a sin. This comes from the teaching of their God and their Savior Jesus Christ. So you think that you believe they are wrong that they should just rewrite their canon, the Bible, and change their beliefs to make a few feel better? That is what is wrong with this world. The few ruling the many.
So the oppressed third world gets to view their latest rapist -- and cheers about it! The best we can do is pick them off genuflected knees, give them a firm shake and point the way to self-actualization without the recourse of worshiping fairies and their proxies.
For a start, they can (metaphorically, at least) stop fellating that monster in the white robe. Breath of fresh air? No, same old male-dominated stench with a different face...
Actually, that's exactly what they did 1900 years ago, Jason.
Women were not only active in the early Church - they held prominent roles as leaders in it. Paul tells of women who were the leaders of early churches (Apphia in Philemon 2; Prisca in I Corinthians 16:19). This confirmed by other texts that also mention women who headed churches, such as Lydia of Thyatira (Acts 16:15) and Nympha of Laodicea (Colossians 4:15).
Women held offices and played significant roles in group worship. Paul, for example, greets a deacon named Phoebe (Romans 16:1). An order of women served formal roles of ministry in some churches (I Timothy 5:9-10).
But every variety of ancient Christianity that advocated the legitimacy of women's leadership was eventually declared heretical, and evidence of women's early leadership roles was erased or suppressed.
'Modern times' and all that.
Linda M-311663
Yea I'm laughing alright.
FYI, it's spelled exactly the same as Francis of Assisi.
This is the way it has been spelled for over 800 years.
If I have misunderstood you I apologize.
"and look forward to working with him in carrying forward the Gospel message," LCWR's statement read."
And Jesus said "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." Then Jesus dropped the stone the Pharisees had handed him.
So,, what "Gospel message" is the Church sending when it tries to influence Nations to enact or retain laws like that in Ireland that result in women being tortured to death for the glory of "god"? Or when it wants government to make life on earth #e!! for gays, lesbians, and trans people?
Where in the teachings of Jesus can they find any support for the use of ANY kind of force to impose any of "god's" laws on anyone? Jesus after all was clear about it that he only wants volunteers. He simply stands at the door and knocks. He doesn't use government to bash the door down and force people to their knees to pledge fidelity to "god".
The use of government to force religious compliance isn't just a "christian" problem, but, it is the antithesis of what Jesus taught. That was the great message of Jesus. Compliance was to be VOLUNTARY. Something a person did because they wanted to because they believed it was the right thing. Not because if they didn't do it, they were going to be stoned to death by some sectarian clergy or penalized by secular government.
blankballot,
Huh?!
blankballot, Jesus didn't teach "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."
That story was added to the NT around 900 AD.
Jesus was without sin,so he could have casts the first stone but didn't,the people were not,so they didn't.
For all those who were hoping to see a new pope with traditional values your wasting your time. The last pope was invited to leave when he refused to usher in liberal dogma. Women priests, homosexual marriage, etc. Its all on its way. You have one chance, get as many catholics as you can to assault the vatican with a clear and concise ultimatum. Bring back the traditional church or your leaving for good.
If you're counting on improvements for women due to a new pope, forget it. Same 'ol, same'ol. If you're female, best to leave for good. In this case, "for good" doesn't mean forever, it means for better.
blankballot: You are mistaken when you say that Christ's great message was compliance. His greatest message was the good news of God's Kingdom. No where did he ever contradict what was written in the bible including divorce of every sort of grounds to marry another. He clearly established that every person who divorces and remarries except on the grounds of fornication commits adultery. Under the law, adultery as well as other forms of fornicastion, including realtions with the same sex partners, was punishable by death. Please do not use Christ as a cover up for your obvious unwillingness to conform to God's arrangements. Yes he desires people to want to obey out of reverential fear but he clearly does not excuse disobedience. His response to the jewish leader was appropriate. They weren't interested in adhering to the law when presenting the adulterer to Christ. They were more interested in using this as an opportunity to get Christ to show a lack of mercy and advance their own agenda. This is why He said to them let the person without sin cast the first stone.
bellasdad: I disagree. I'm for reproductive rights, for female/married priests, and for gay marriage. We as a Catholic community can never change unless we challenge tradition. Although I'm against so many Catholic negative teachings and beliefs, I'm for change in the name of women's rights and gay rights! It's imperative we march forth for our brothers and sisters! I beg of you to stand with me and many others for the rights of women and gays/lesbians, as they too are God's children!
Diva, you are a Catholic in name only if your believe that stuff because it goes against our teachings. I DO believe that every person must be loved and treated with respect but that does not mean that we accept or "tolerate" the sin as good and holy.
@DivaNicole; Oh, how I wish that more religious people were like you...inclusive and caring for all. I do not believe in organized religion myself, but I do believe in Jesus' teachings and how he wanted us all to love each other and care for those less fortunate. I think that is what the church should concentrate on. I wish that the Catholic churches, especially the Vatican, would worry less about acquiring wealth for themselves so they can sit on golden chairs and wear golden slippers and instead feed and clothe the poor throughout the world with the billions of dollars that they have. Most Catholics or Christians say, "Jesus loves everyone" or "God loves everyone", but in the next breath they say, "well, everyone except...". I simply do not understand how many religious people are so against contraception when it could prevent so many ultimate deaths throughout the world through starvation or, the horrible choice of abortion. It makes no sense why a woman who already has children she can't feed be forbidden from preventing further pregnancies. Why would God want children to be born and then starve to death or die from no health care? It is just too confusing to excuse.
And, @Linda M; You are accusing DivaNicole of being a Catholic in name only. I say that she is just a plain nice person. Following guidelines written down centuries ago by some old men to control the ignorant masses, especially women is just stupid. That is why people are either moving away from the church or their faith...they don't want to be controlled by antiquated rules that arbitrarily exclude certain members of the society. Even murderers are supposed to be forgiven for their sins, all of us are sinners...correct? Why do you feel you are so superior to Diva? In my heart, I truly believe that those people who open their hearts and love everyone will be the ones who will go to Heaven. Of course, that is just my belief and it doesn't really count. That being said, I will repeat, that I sooo wish that there were more Catholics and Christians like Diva who follow Jesus' teachings to love and care for everyone especially those who are less fortunate than others and/or those considered to be abnormal when they are not!
notasheep, you are feel-good nonsense. You don't want truth. You want fluff. You want stuff that makes you feel good about yourself inside, but is nothing but a lie.
The same Jesus that commands us to love one another, is the same Jesus who said this in Matthew 10:
34 Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn `a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law - 36 a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.' 37 Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; 38 and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it."Jesus's primary message was to share the truth. And the truth is: either you accept Him as the sacrifice for the sins you commit, or you will stand on your own on judgement day and face your own punishment.
Absolutely anybody--regardless of what you have done, the color of your skin, or anything else--can choose to admit you have done terrible things, that the standard for salvation is perfection, and that only Jesus was perfect, and therefore His death can represent you and take the punishment for you.
But that person has to be willing to admit they are not "a good person" to do so. You have to take a good hard look inside your thoughts and your heart and see the truth.
Most people can't do it.
And that is why the path to heaven is very narrow.
Jesus was not a hippie. He didn't teach "love everybody, man" and grow some pot. He wasn't a naturalist or a pacifist.
Until you have actually picked up a bible and read it cover to cover, you don't have even the slightest clue what He taught, and you look foolish when you write comments that cover about .5% of His statements.
Instead, read all of it and be willing to face the truth. The whole truth and nothing but the truth.
You might be surprised what you gain from it.
P.S. I am not Catholic.
Have you read the old testiment? God told Moses and the Isrealits to kill all of the people they came across. I don't believe in the Bible or God, but some people really need to read the thing before they post comments about it. Most Christians have never read the Bible and most non-believers have not either. People who want to quote Jesus and the Bible need to read it before you take a single verse and try to make it say what you want it to say. That verse is part of a whole chapter and that verse would have a different meaning if you read the whole thing.
And lets not forget the pedophiles. after all their people too. And the Pimps of course, because gee their just business men trying to make a dime. Oh and let not forget the rapist and murderers.
What? You think just being a "Nice" person gets you in? And as long as your "Nice" you can do anything else you want?
Some of you folks really are a joke. You think you can sit down with GOD and the two of you are going to come up with a game plan your both happy with. Kind of like letting a five year old pick their own bed time or decide if they want to sit in the car safety seat or drive.
No wait,... Maybe if God doesn't do it your way you can form a picket line at the gates of Heaven. Or perhaps write your union representative?
Or if you don't agree with what God demands of you, you can go on strike?
I can't help but laugh, and then cry. You are in my prayers.
As for all you "Brothers and Sisters" out there, be wary of those who advocate the earthly freedoms. For they will cost you an eternity of misery.
Jason-2079651 - oh, you mean they do exactly what you are doing here......
TruettCollins
No, but you keep trying. I'm sure you read the Bible long enough you will catch on.
"The church's attitude toward women and its teachings on contraception, abortion and same-sex marriage are blamed by some for the decline in morale among Catholics."
The purpose of the Church is to bring people to eternal life through Jesus and to protect the weak, the unborn, the children, the poor, the elderly, imprisoned, and the sick. If this mission causes "some" to experience a "decline in morale," so be it.
I live in your neck of the woods, Andrew, and I heartily agree. God's teachings don't change just because we don't want to obey the rules!
Ya, you can't let religion be like real life. It would be redundant and pointless.
Nonsense, it's growing like gangbusters in my community precisely because it values and honors life and right relationships.
Right on Andrew! This world is so upside down in it's thinking it reminds me of Cardinal Francis Arinze from Nigeria once said "Common sense isn't too common anymore".
Name me the specific bible verse where Jesus says anything about the unborn.
You have to go back further to the Old testament where it talks about causing a miscarriage as being equal to murder. makes sense doncha think. just because a person is behind a wall of tissue and being fed by a mother doesn't make it any less worthy of life does it?
Lyaso, Jesus didn't have to say anything about the unborn. Back then they were called babies, whether inside or outside the mothers womb. How about St. Luke, "The baby leapt for joy in Elizabeth's womb at the greeting of Mary", who by the way was carrying Jesus in her womb. You see, a baby is a baby. That's where our culture is screwed up. Our so called "laws" have tried to convince us that until that baby comes out of it's mother's womb, it's just a glob of tissue and it can be destroyed. Our laws say if we kill a deer that is pregnant we are charged with killing two deer. Yet, if a mother kills a child in her womb, it's a "right". Talk about a very sick and depraved generation. I have an 18 month old son and could never, ever even imagine of destroying this sweet, innocent child in it's mother's womb. He was just as much a living, beautiful boy inside the womb as he is now. I heard his heartbeat and felt him moving inside my wife's womb. There are many, many women today who suffer much more now from destroying their child than you could imagine. You don't hear their story, all you hear is "it's a woman's right" We're so into people's "rights" these days that we sacrifice every bit of common sense. What about the baby's rights?
Catholicism is not a democray you dont get to pick and choose which to beleive. If you dont like the CC, then dont show you biogtry. He walks in footsteps of Peter and I think he is a man that is humble and holy. The Lord indeed works in mysterious ways.
Or..... One could very well say,
Is due to people's unwillingness to adhere to the Church's warning of what will happen if one participates in,
Listen, I'm gonna let you in on a secret. Never has a women had an abortion and walked out of the clinic smiling. Even those who advocate women's right to an abortion can not deny, the best way to avoid this dramatic experience is through abstinence.
John Q Public-6353273 - If he "walks in footsteps of Peter" he would follow scripture......
Come on Women you dont really think some man called Pope will change your life ? You and the Pope are the same in the eyes of the real GOD. The Devil has better use for a Pope. He's the one people can see & touch. People dont believe in nothing they cant see....Should I congratulate you on your new Choosen GOD ?
unwashed brain, not everybody is the same in the eyes of God. That why some are saved and others are not.
To Snoop Marky Mark, AKA misled predestination believer, I will pray for you. Because Christ taught to love our neighbors and pray for those who persecute us.
We all must realize that to become a Cardinal in the Catholic Church you must be extremely conservative and obedient to the Catholic dogmas! I am educated with a Ph.D. from St.Louis University and loved the
Jesuits there. However, Pope Francis did not side with the female leader of Argentina who has accepted Gay Marriage, Marriage among divorce people,and other issues that Pope Francis openly was against there. Therefor we will see no major changes and I side with Hanna "We need a Better Church!"
Better church is an oxymoron. Under it all, there is no difference between any church. especially a "revealed religion. Thomas Paine said that a revelation is only a revelation to the original subject. Anything thereafter is hearsay and subject to the usual proofs of truthfulness. Is it more likely that a man might rise from the dead than that a man might lie? A lie is infinitely more likely.
In short, any believer in a revealed religion must believe 17 impossible thing before breakfast in order to buy into the fantasy. In any case, any argument is mute because unless it can overcome the problem of infinite regression, it's got nothing to stand on. You won't believe it, but I feel better.
Dr. Joleen . . . . Sadly, it is apparent you do not agree with the laws of God from the Old Testament instructing his followers absolutley to NOT lay with another. These rules are not up for a vote, God does not give us the option of changing them at our every whim because we do not agree. The Clergy's job is to enforce what God has demanded of his people and that's why they need to stick with the Traditional teachings.
This notion that Women are denied access to the Church is ridiculous. If Women want to participate in a religous life they can, and with respect to daily participation, there was a time when Women were not allowed on the altar, today you have mostly Women who assist at Mass, read scripture, are Eucharistic ministers and even servers at Mass. These changes have happened over the past 5 decades and I believe that as good as it's going to get.
If you need a better Church, I suggest you try the Protestant faith, they have over 33,000 denominations to pick from, I'm sure you'll find one to your liking because obviously your one who has heard the word, read the word, but does not "understand" the word, and are subject to the evil who will come and steal your heart.
Anybody seen Ritchie?
Let look at this from another perspective....
March 13, 2013
A suspected criminal has been rapidly elected as the new Pontiff of the Church of Rome in a record two day conclave, being the first Jesuit in history to head the papacy.
Former Cardinal and Pope-elect "Francis I", Jorge Mario Bergoglio, is accused of helping kidnap opponents of Argentina's military junta during the 1970's "Dirty War", and of baby trafficking, by lawyers and members of the Plaza de Mayo human rights group. (Los Angeles Times, April 17, 2005, "Argentine Cardinal Named in Kidnapping Lawsuit",Besides his personal alleged criminality, Bergoglio - as a Jesuit - represents the group most responsible for the centuries-old Crimes against Humanity and Genocide for which the Jesuit Superior General was found guilty on February 25, along with Joseph Ratzinger and other Vatican officials.
The Jesuit Order established the murderous Indian residential school system in North America during the mid 19th century, and has led the destruction and killing of millions of non-Catholics around the world since its inception in the mid 16th century.
Under a secret oath administered to every member, the Jesuits are authorized and encouraged to kill, torture or overthrow any opponent of the Vatican and the Pope.
These facts, the Argentine allegations, and his complicity in the global conspiracy against children enunciated in the canon law Crimen Sollicitationas, makes the new Pope particularly liable for immediate arrest and sentencing under international law and the Common Law Court verdict of February 25, 2013.
The ITCCS understands that Jorge Mario Bergoglio's election was a quick and uncontested arrangement, as evident in its rapidity: in less than two days, a record for papal elections.
Bergoglio's election makes the guilt of the Vatican and its highest officials for Crimes against Humanity all that more severe. The new Pope, as the head fiduciary officer of the Vatican, Inc., assumes that guilt and liability.
Bergoglio is therefore subject to immediate arrest under the terms of the Common Law Court ORDER of March 5, 2013, issued by the International Common Law Court of Justice under the authority of jus gentium, the Law of Nations, and the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court.
Accordingly, an application has been made by our Tribunal to these courts for an International Citizens Arrest Warrant, to be issued against the new Roman Pontiff, Jorge Mario Bergoglio - Pope Francis I, for Crimes against Humanity and involvement in a global criminal conspiracy based in Rome.
The ITCCS will soon be issuing more background evidence on the genocidal purpose and actions of the Jesuit Order in relation to the ongoing crimes we have documented; and of the evidence of Bergoglio's suspected crimes in Argentina.
Issued 13 March, 2013
ITCCS Central, Brussels
Brainwashed-thats why it's called faith.
We will see if the Catholic church is capable of actual changes if not it will go the way of the dodo as it should. Ideas and values change, our concept of God changes. Personally I'm not Christian BUT I am spiritual and religious if the church does what it's supposed to that's a good thing but it's not there to denounce people only biggots believe that bigotry and intolerance are good ideas.
it is not in the business of catering to changing desires and ambitions. When it loves the way it is called to love then it is strong and healthy-that will be the focus and that will be the only focus. Everything else falls into place.
The Catholic Church will be around 2,000 years from now. Look at the terrible and horrible popes that have reigned in the last 2,000 years, and yet the Church remains.
First of all the church has not been around the 20 centuries that every one is claiming it was It wasnt statred untill the time of Constintine of the holy roman empire (not the roman empire ) that in about 1270 ce ( ad for those of us that still think old school ) now enough of the history lesson no matter the what century you look at there has to be a moral center whether you like it or not the basic principals all of society are based on the writings of a superme leader . it dont matter what you call him /her and what ever religin you follow the basic rules still apply and this new pope will bring order back to the church and they will contunue to help the poor and down troden
Snoop Marky Mark you are so right! The reason why the Catholic Church will be around for another 2,000 yrs is because people are brainwashed and cannot think for themselves! As a woman I would never support a religion that IGNORES women.
The new pope is 76 yrs old. Seriously do people really think this man is going to change things?
And as far as the Catholic Church blaming conception, abortion and same sex marriage for the decline in morale among Catholics? Give me a break! This is a religion that has protected pedophile priests (former Pope Benedict was the head of (CDF) Congregation for the doctrine of the Faith before becoming Pope). This put him in charge of the investigations of pedophile priests and what did he do...nothing.). The Catholic religion makes me sick every time I think about it. It is time the church stopped blaming everybody for their decline and take responsibility for its actions. If the Catholic Church is in decline it has nobody to blame but ITSELF!
ROFLLLLLL..........your grasp of history is surely ummm, tainted. Constantine was Emporer of Rome in the 300's, NOT the 1200's....sheesh.
Snoop, the church has been here 2000 years and still hasn't managed to end what, according to scripture, should have happened within about 50 years(given the average lifespans), should diminish any immediate expectations. If you or your decendents are still waiting in 2000 MORE years: well, words fail me.
Yes, I know you're not convinced and I'm not surprised. Anyone can prove anything they want using scripture. It's just like the Constitution. Plain words are never enough for some.
We need to see if Pope Francis does indeed reach out to disaffected Catholics and energizes the Faith. Women need more important roles and I can see them being deacons. In the early Church, 1st-3rd Century women had just as many important roles as men. It took an emperor--Constantine--to change all that. After that, the Church modeled itself on the Roman Empire structure and it's been that way ever since.
the only thing he will be reaching for is Chior boys
sirboss17, you are an ass!
Yes, sirbos17 is an ass, but He might be right. It just depends on what chior boy is. I don't usually consider spelling errors to be a deadly sin, but what the hey?
Nonsense! This Pope is a TRADITIONAL Jesuit who is committed to the traditions of the Church. Women play an amazing role but that doesn't mean they get to play every role. He is committed to valuing women as the foundation of a stable and humane society. Women do not make good leaders over men they simply do not and they need to get over their ambition and pride that demands their own way versus humbleness and a willingness to do what God asks of them-serve and love just like the men are called to serve and love in their unique capacity. LOVE is what energizes faith not catering to ambitions.
Wow! Just wow! You summed up in one paragraph one of the main reasons I will never subscribe to any religion, especially Christianity. You honestly believe that women don't make good leaders?! What kind of a woman are you? This is disgusting. I don't even know what to say. Both men and women are capable of doing great things.
No, they can make good leaders but that doesn't mean they are to be leaders over a congregation. I have been part of churches where women have been in pastoral roles and it has yet to work-sorry it is just a fact of our make-up. There are so many other leadership roles that they serve better in. And the key to Christian leadership is SERVE. Not ambition, not striving, not competing and never selfishness.
Because it is a sexist religion. Thankyou, for confirming that. Maybe, now you will begin to understand why more people than ever before are deciding not to subscribe to organized religion. It's sexist, homophobic, racist in many instances, and oh the list goes on and on.
Awesome post carol! I couldn't agree more. I hope and pray Pope Francis is a strong and moral leader.
Awesome comment Carol!!! i couldn't agree more. I hope and pray Pope Francis is a strong and moral leader.
Women are great leaders! Three European countries are lead well by Women! It is the Churches loss not to
include all humanity which includes Women! Jesus Christ said only to Love one another!
Dr. Joleen - Thankyou.
I'm not sure, but aren't Jeuits the Republicans of the church? (read heartless bean counter with no empathy).
My guess is the Pope Francis 1 will make no discernable difference and the church will continue to bleed members until eventually, they will be competing with the church of Elvis for members and money.
Listen, I gotta say this; What is happening to our Women???? I love Women, truly, I do. What is it that is driving this push to empahsize the value of Women?? It appears to me that Women are trying to prove to the Men of this world that not only are they equal to Men, which they are, but they actually can out do Men.
Hillary will be President soon, that is a given. We have Women Supreme Court Judges, Senators, Representatives, CEO's on and on. This is Wonderful. But it's like they want every leaf turned. Now we have Women Combat Soldiers. Is this really necessary? Do we want our Women mamed, no arms, legs, disfigured faces? Women boxers, race car drivers (that's ok), Pro Football.
Women Priest's, Gay Marriage and the "Right" to Abort, the worst thing a woman & man can do, going against the very nature of their being as givers of life. God has granted Women the greatest role of all and they want to tweek it, overuling their Maker ???????
Women before all of these endeavors, your vocations as Wives, Mothers, Sisters and Daughters could not rank higher on any type of graph or chart. I will be the first to acknowledge that Women can out do Men in every endeavor imaginable; but should they? Is the tension between the sexes that great and the conquest of one over the other be worth the consequences? Personally, I think the pursuit of this mindset will be the demise of our society as we now know it, and I feel that's where we're headed.
Women, I know you're going to chatise me for my comments but nevertheless, I LOVE WOMEN.
Carol - if you are content to be a second class citizen, no more than an appendage to your man, well, that is your right. Don't try to regulate MY life by your beliefs. vinnycee- is it okay to have our young MEN maimed, with no arms or legs, etc? I would think a Christian would be looking at ways to end the conflicts so NO ONE is subjected to the scars of war. To all of you who talk about changing the basic tenants of the church - perhaps you should form your own church, that conforms to your ideals. The church may adapt to modern times in small ways, but the basic tenants will probably always be the same. Most of the religions of the world have existed only to control the populace, and almost all of them hate women, even when they deny it. It's all about control.
Women need to quit their belly achin' and make the new pope a sandwich before we kick 'em out of the church entirely.
Huh?
I think in this case the person is using sarcasm. Unfortunately, I think Carol was serious about her sexist statement.
There is nothing sexist in saying men and women are different, different in many ways. We act and think very different, thats neither wrong or sexist. all of you get a grip.
I was! It is not sexist to have roles that are defined by logic and reason. Just because a woman wants to be a priest doesn't mean she should. it is arrogance that wants to cater to ambitions based on selfish desires. There is a dynamic that this generation ignores when it comes to women in leadership. Funny, the first "Pope" Peter's wife ran the church most of the time when he was out busy preaching. But she didn't call herself a priest, she simply and humbly ran the show for him. it is a unique cooperation that yields much healthier relationships based on basic human psychology.
gundude- You completely missed out on the part I thought was sexist. I would never argue that men and women are not different in many ways. What upset me about her entire rant was how she was saying women have no place leading. Women have no place making anything of themselves or doing anything for themselves. That is incredibly sexist. And Carol - you think the men that become popes are not arrogant and selfish - just because they are men?
Bums rush. I think you were properly indoctrinated by a priest rushing your bum. Just because you're O.K. with being used as an unholy receptacle, doesn't mean women should accept being demeaned and slighted by those expecting respect.
Carol, you are only digging yourself in further every time you post. Give it up; you don't have the talent for it.
I guess Carol is simply falling into a subservient mode when she feels women are not capable of leading. She is forgetting Margaret Thatcher, Mother Theresa, Indira Ghandi, and Golda Meir for a few. I would not exactly call them weak, weeping women, but stalwart, strong and even merciful when mercy is needed. That is one quality that is most often missing with male leadership. Not inended as an insult, it is but a nurturing instinct that is most prevalent and strongest in women. In fact, Golda Meir was the first woman to be called "Iron Lady." Carol has also never met a couple of nuns who taught me. Talk about "iron"--those two women brought the priests to their KNEES when it had to do with the welfare of the children. They WERE leaders, and they were not subservient.
By the way Carol, I have a very dear friend who is an Anglican priest! She was well received in many countries where she was assigned from time to time---including Ireland, England, and Canada. Many times she was requested to return. She has many extraordinary stories regarding events during her ministry. She is the kindest, most honorable and caring woman I ever met, but she is no pushover for anyone. She even convinced the European congregations that Americans are not bad at all. One of the best ambassadors we ever had.
Most of the rules of the Church, including many 'bans', have nothing to do with Jesus. They have a lot to do with political agendas of past popes. If this new Francis I stays in alignment with Francis of Assisi and Jesus, then love and tolerance, and inclusiveness will return the real values of Jesus to the world, and once and for all abandon the ancient values of the old testament that were never written by any god, but by high priests looking to empower themselves. It's time for change, one that even atheists can agree with.
What "bans" are you referring to? Jesus didn't have to "ban" a lot of the things that we accept as "rights" now adays. Like abortion, same sex marriages, contraception. It was so unthinkable back then and even up to 100 years ago, until the progressives who thought they know everything, even more than God himself started to convince people otherwise. That's where we're at today. It's all about the 3 "P"'s now. Pleasure, power and possesions. Think about it.
"Inclusiveness" is the vanity of current narcissism. There is no inclusiveness-everyone cannot do everything and it is a spoiled brat mentality that demands its own way in spite of logic and reason. LOVE and humility are all that is needed to create a just society and that is the core of the church-or should be. This Pope manifests those holy and humanity changing virtues. The church stands in opposition to much of the current ambitions of man and will not change its tenets because they transform lives into greater and deeper souls. real love is sacrifice, service, and joyful love based on the knowledge that the God of the universe humbled himself to become a small, mortal man in order to connect with us and make a way to Him as a perfect and infinite Love.
carol--you are the reason I stopped attending Church--you are like the bigots which interpreted the Bbile their own way instead of truly learning what Jesus taught. So full of hate--no compassion. I truly hope that Pope Francis can bring forward much goodness.
I am prostant, your new pope can not even keep his cross on his chest. What kind of idiot did your people stand such a man. 1.5 billion are expected to live by his word, which from aperances is an idiot. This is like Obama doesn't know how to salute his own security forces, a salute is an acknowledegement of respect to our commander in chief. In my opionun this shows stupidity. Please forgive my spelling, but the new pope and your president are in the same bag.
Peter is right. Maybe he's infallible and should be a pope too. Another scism, what fun! I suggest reading: The origins of political power by Francis Fukuyama. In a talk on Book tv, He said that government has been one long struggle against the family. It was seen early on and over and over again that the head man who had family had divided loyalty and was enclined toward nepotism, which resulted in friction, infighting and at least, inefficiency.
The Catholics, at some period of time solved this problem with the celibate priesthood. The rules against birth control and the injunction to multiply were just an attempt to breed themselves into the majority. They did pretty well. It's too bad at this point in time because, if global climatge change is real, there are some billions of people too many to make the adjusments needed to save them. I'm glad I won't be around to see it.
It's not a coincidence that there's illicit sex,including pedophilia and
rape,in the Church,both Catholic and Protestant,and in the military.Since
Eden,both Illicit sex and wars of guns and bombs,the sword,are of man's sinful
nature his flesh.
It's hypocritical to support wars,and oppose abortion,homosexuality and gay
marriage,as wars kill life,even the innocent including mothers and their
fetuses,and the reason abortion,homosexuality and gay marriage is sin is because
it's against God's Command in Genesis to be fruitful and to multiply and fill
the earth--to create life.Wars kill innocent people including fetuses and their
mothers,and abortion kills life,the fetus,and homosexuality and gay marriage is
not creating life within marriage of a man and a woman,and so not obeying God's
Command in Genesis.
ZZZZZZZZZZZZ...zzzzzzzzzz...ZZZZ
love your by line. 99% of posters are blahblahs of some sort or another.
I wish him well and hope he serves the Church for a long time with distinction.
I am glad we chose a Jesuit from the Western Hemisphere, a new pope from the new world...
I might like him as a person,but probably not as a leader. See 1.1 above.
You have no reason or justification to say that. As a leader he sets the perfect example of humble love and an acceptance of the role given to him by God.
Carol.... you are obviously, a very devout catholic. However, in the early days of the Church, women were deacons. In some of Paul's letters, where he is greeting members of the churches....some of those were women's names. That ended because of Constantine... not because Christ said that women were unfit for ministry.
I'm not sure what they're so excited about, given the Cardinal Bergoglio was definitely on the more conservative side of things; I don't think that's going to change with him becoming Pope Francis. I fully believe he will indeed be a breath of fresh air and balance in a polarized world, but I doubt it'll be the anesthetizing fog they're holding their breath for.
Big f-ing deal...is'nt there any real news out there?
Facebook sucks
Praise God from whom all blessings flow........
Did GOD vote for him?
YUP!
.
?
I hope this leader of the church can move the church towards more nobel goals than molesting young boys which they have been doing very well for a very long time.
This is the problem I have with organized religion period. Phony as an eight day clock. When I was a youngster I would go to church and listen to the great sermons then walk outside and listen to the hipocracy as people bad mouthed the very people they sat next to. I decided I do not need to put up with this to believe in God.
On the battle fields of Viet Nam I established the connection with God that I have had ever since. he saw me through the most difficult of times and showed me the path my entire life and I have not set foot in a church one time.
Organized religion has been responsible for some of the worst things ever done between man kind in the name of religion not to mention what has been uncovered with this Catholic thing with all it's tradition and showman ship it boils down to a bunch of perverts hiding behind the cloth. My father quit the Catholic religion when a nun slapped his left hand until it was bloody with a ruler because he was using his left hand. Screw the Catholic religion and the perverts who run it. God is with me he always has been and he always will be by having an honest and forthright relationship with him and him alone. And by the way I am left handed sisters.
Religion...is Separate...from Spirituality...
They are completely ..different
It's also been responsible for some of the best things as well. The first hospitals, orphanages, homes for unwanted women who were abandoned by their husbands, schools-the list goes on and on. There are always evil men and silly people who attend church, but that doesn't make the church inherently bad. At least the Catholic church is rooting out the evil and now has a zero tolerance for anything that hurts the least, this Pope especially-that is one reason he was chosen. "Church" can be getting together with a group of like-minded people who believe in God and then do something with the good things they have been given.
I PRAY..
To Money..Every day and Night...and ..for..as well...
It's my..."Religion"
Kings who live in glass houses...shouldn't stowe thrones..
I use to be a catholic. For all you people outthere the rule is pope can be a, a hole,biggest crook of all times. But and a BIG BUT he can not make a mistake in the doctrine so if you think women shoud be priest and he does allow it then it is the law of the church. So you either have to live with it or get another religion. And according to the church all the bishops that have ordained a women they are headed for hell and should change thier religion it is not up to them to make the rules. I am not saying that I agree with it but that is the religion.
Ambivilence ..is a turtle..with two heads
Where did you leave them? I'll help you look for them.
This pope is not good news for women, gay, bi-sexual, transgender people or any other oppressed group. Do the research. He is just like all the popes before him. Uncaring for anything other than his religion and the power and prestige he receives from it. He has been indicated in helping a horrible dictator in his country out too.
Yes ..we care...for you..
as long as you..
agree
with....me..?
he is not good for rebelliousness and those who want their own way in spite of clear mandates. if you don't like it start your own church.
aliblahblah - Precisely the point. You have to agree with everything they say. I am so sick and tired of it. I like to be able to think.
I joined..
Our Lady of Perpetual Taxation..
Church of The Socialist Savior..
I don't know how to think...I only watch..T.V
AliBlahBlahBlah...may I suggest you stop your blah, blah, blah, and think! Turn off your TV, or turn to some art films and start thinking. The Pope is not your tax consultant and he is far from a Socialist Savior. In fact the biggest critics of the Vatican, or their clergy, have been Socialists.
Socialists are a diverse bunch. Some socialists are Catholics, some are atheists, some are agnostics, some are religiously moderate, some are spiritual but not religious, some are Buddhist or Hindu, some are Protestants (Anglicans, Methodists, Quakers, Baptists...), Sikhs, Jains, Muslims, etc...and some are "un-affiliated or un-defined".
If you don't like Socialist Savior then try Capitalist Convertor....you'll find it all over the world. It is called money. If you have oil under your feet Ali then you might have a lot of Converters.
I'll also give you some convertors if you stop talking for three years! Silence Aliblahblahblah!
If you want to sanction aberrant lifestyle and women's right to get rid of their babies then the Pope is not your man and never will be. But you have Obama and his co-horts. The church will have compassion but that does not means that it will bow down and succumb to the demands of the times. It's God's way or the highway. Like it or not. Take it or leave it. You don't have to believe in the church teachings. So people will leave the church. That's their choice.
Gosh..I put my objectivity here ....somewhere..now where....?
BINGO..has done ..a lot of good..
But Bongo..is bad..Bongo..not good...Bongo...Bad...Bad Bongo
Pope Francis will continue Christ's teaching of the good news. All are and always have been welcome but Christ offers forgiveness (with repentence), not acceptance, of your sins.
Confused? Don't feel alone... much of America is similarly confused.
The catholic church is confused because it's part of babylon the great...from the word babylon comes the word babel which means confused.