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Subscribe to RSSNBC News Vatican analyst and papal biographer George Weigel says Cardinal Bergoglio was the right choice, a man whose simplicity, austerity and gentleness can put the church on the road to a new future. Not a "maintenance guy" that merely oversees the status quo, Cardinal Bergoglio is expected to teach the Church how to be missionary again.
Pope Francis has a to-do list as long as his cassock.
The former Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio will lead 1.2 billion Catholics and a church at a crossroads — wrestling with scandal after scandal, changing demographics and calls for liberalization.
Here are seven pressing challenges for the new pope:
1. Cleaning house at the Vatican. Pope Benedict XVI ordered that a report on church bureaucracy be shown to only two men — himself and his successor. After he gives it a read, Francis will have to address backbiting, corruption and cronyism inside the Vatican and increasing pressure to make its finances more open. Church analysts were watching closely to see whether cardinals would elect a Vatican insider protective of church secrecy. Instead they picked a man from halfway around the world.
American Catholics are praying Pope Francis will be able to repair the Church, damaged by scandal, and help usher in an era of credibility that can draw in more young parishioners. NBC's John Yang reports.
2. Leading the church out of the sex abuse scandal. The crisis consumed Benedict’s papacy and threatened to overshadow the conclave, with abuse victims even calling for some cardinals to recuse themselves from the selection process. Victims’ groups still want the Vatican to disclose more about its role in failing to protect children. One such organization, the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests, said it was grateful that Francis was not on its list of the worst choices for pope — but warned that very little about the crisis has been exposed in South America.
3. Getting along with other faiths. Benedict caused a furor when, in 2006, he quoted an emperor who had characterized some teachings of the Prophet Muhammad as "evil and inhuman." Benedict is credited with repairing rifts with Jews, however, and the new pope has also been praised for cultivating a strong relationship with Judaism. After Francis' election, the head of the World Jewish Congress praised him as someone "known for his open-mindedness."
4. Winning the West. Benedict couldn’t stop the decline of the church in its traditional stronghold of Europe. Meanwhile in the United States, a Pew study released Wednesday found that only 27 percent of the church’s members defined themselves as "strong" Catholics — a four-decade low. Cardinal Sean O’Malley of Boston, who was considered a papal contender, expressed hope that Francis would fight rising secularism: "We pledge our faithful support for the Holy Father as he leads the Church in proclaiming the New Evangelization, inviting all people to a develop a closer relationship with Christ and to share that gift with others."
5. Should women be priests? And should priests marry? Francis will have to address growing debate within the church about the celibacy requirement for priests. A priest in Australia admitted last year that he had been married for a year and said "there are more like me." Benedict also delivered a veiled rebuke to an Austrian priests' group that wants the church to allow women to be ordained and to get rid of the celibacy requirement.
Tony Gomez / Reuters file
Cardinal Jorge Bergoglio of Argentina was elected to lead the Catholic Church following the resignation of Pope Benedict XVI.
6. Modernization. Majorities of Catholics in the United States have said in surveys that they want the pope to lead the church in a more liberal direction. A New York Times/CBS News poll of Catholics last week found that six in 10 support gay marriage, and seven in 10 want the church to allow birth control. Three-quarters supported abortion in at least some circumstances. In Argentina, then-Cardinal Bergoglio clashed with the president over a 2010 law allowing gay marriage. "It is a move by the father of lies to confuse and deceive the children of God," he said.
7. Persecution. Open Doors, a group that documents Christian persecution, reported earlier this year that 100 million Christians are oppressed around the worldwide, with countries in Asia and the Middle East by far the worst offenders. Benedict claimed that Christians are the most oppressed religious group in the world, facing discrimination and often violence. As pope, Francis must also be the church’s most prominent diplomat. "This situation is intolerable," Benedict said in 2010, "since it represents an insult to God and to human dignity."
Dmitry Lovetsky / Dmitry Lovetsky / AP
Cardinals from around the world gathered in the Vatican to elect the next leader of the Roman Catholic Church following then-Pope Benedict XVI's resignation. On the second day of the conclave, Argentine Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio was elected pope, taking on the name Pope Francis.
Related:
Meet the new pope: Francis is humble leader who takes bus to work
New pontiff's choice of name has deep meaning for Catholic Church
Full Pope Francis coverage from NBC News
This story was originally published on Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:06 AM EDT
Leave a Comment:
First should be eradicating all the pedophiles the church protects.
Unfortunately, you speak with the mindset of understanding the morality of secular justice, not spiritual mystery and obedience. Well, not unfortunately, you have a good sense of morality, unfortunately in the sense that there is no reason to except justice.
Remember, not a single bishop was fired or went to jail. Not a single one. Some pedophile protecters just came out of election that could have promoted them. Just think about that for a second. Yet, had those cretins celebrated mass with a woman they would have incurred instant excommunication. But covering up sexual abuse affords them the chance at asylum in the Mussolini puppet state that is the Vatican. It's positively Orwellian in scope.
There simply is zero evidence that the Church will put the institution in a secondary position behind the children they claim to serve. It's in the Church's DNA if you will to be selfish.
And every single Catholic who remained silent or defended the pedophiles (they do this on their own Catholic sites) is a huge part of the problem. They are truly complicit in the evil that raped children of their innocence driving many of the victims to even commit suicide.
But now is a time to party, a red herring shaman has been elected. Morality be damned.
Reform? This is the catholic church. It wasn't until 1960 that they finally agreed the sun did not revolve around the earth. I have no ill will towards religion, but religion needs to stay out of the secular laws of the United States. That includes the Pope.
Right! Look at the new "elected"pope and see for yourselves if this is the face of ""a new era" Better yet, read about what he has "accomplished" before, and you will have your very depressing answer.
Amazing how so many crazy people in this world still believe in religions bull$hit as if we are still in the dark ages. The crazy Christians, crazy Muslims and the crazy Jews all still very much obsessed with fairy tales from 2,000 years ago, so much so that they are convinced they are the "normal" ones and that anyone who doesn't believe like them should be branded "insane" for not believing like them in angels, prophets and wizards. Luckily, religion is finally now beginning to decline significantly and rapidly in most western countries (except the US and Italy of course), and religious people in most western countries are expected to be in minority within 10-15 years. After all, we are in the 21st century!
And yet in America, Christians did all they could to oppress everyone else that wasn't in their religion, still attacking gays and women with as much ferocity as they could muster. No one wants to get in the pews because the pews are being used to push hatred and bigotry. They want a message of love, peace, wisdom, and humanity. They don't want to hear why God hates everyone that isn't them, that's what the ones currently attending want. They want openness, they want a religion that won't keep slamming doors shut and abusing it's power.
I realize this might be infinitely impossible for the Vatican. For a group that held itself as the great religious front against Satan, it feels more like they were just as corrupt as the evils they said they were fighting. They also don't seem to realize that hate won't push people into the pews anymore, they'd rather have community, and rather be out helping one another, rather than condescending to others about their religion, and their sex life.
At least, this is what I hope spirituality is leading towards: True Christians that believe in love and acceptance, that will let God do his job as he had commanded: Him being the Judge, not you.
He should remind the 13,000,000 illegals in the US that they are sinning as long as they remain in the US.
They must leave the US no matter what the US politicians do in regards to Immigration Reform.
GOD will not forget that these people stole the resources of the American poor!
The Pope must stop the use of the Catholic Church to help Latin America invade the United States with the lie of "immigration".
Can they eat meat on Friday yet?................never read that one in the Bible
William Travis-7825503
God does not make the laws for the United States of America. God is not mentioned anywhere in the Constitution and neither is the bible or Christianity.
Also, what part of Jesus helping the poor did you forget? Did jesus say "we don't help the poor from Latin America" because we don't like them? The pope NEEDS TO STAY out of our secular laws and not even try to dictate how our country is run. As long as Amendment #1 - CONGRESS SHALL MAKE no laws with respect to the establishment of religion, the pope has no authority here period.
I also support legal immigration, but I am not an American that wants to punish the children of illegal immigrants because of their parents mistakes.
Exactly, Luther! To have a religion that forbids marriage by it's leaders is... ungodly. To have positions in this religion that are forbidden to have spouses but to have access to young boys... is criminal. Guess what kind of people these positions attract? Yep, you guessed it, PEDOPHILES. I believe in GOD but this religion IS out of control and has been for centuries, but has gotten super rich because of the sheep that follow it. Granted, there are some good people in the Catholic church that do good things but the basics of the rules of leadership need to be severely overhauled.
talk about sheep "its about time" re electing the worst pres in us history shows youll vote for anything breathing as long as its a democrat
It's about Time,
You are spreading propaganda...
A priest originally came up with the idea of the "big bang theory"
The Catholics see evolution as something that could be true...That is that it doesn't necessarily x out the bible...
Look up the Magi Institute and Father Spitzer...He explains physics in a way that it proves there IS A GOD!
Back up your claims with sources.
Wayne,
the priest scandal is only 50 years old..
The Church has been around for 2000 years...
The problem is with pederasty (love of pubescent boys) AND pedophilia!
Mostly pederasty.
Get facts straight.
Thanks.
It's About Time.............You should duct tape your mouth until your brain is educated enough to speak! The Pope isn't in the need, or WANT to dictate how our country is run. His purpose is to lead the church, which by the way is the religion of the followers of the church. In your scenario, would you rather the miscreants of the world with no religion, no direction, no faith, no hope, no anything be running our country? Just what are you trying to point out? If it is not your liking, then back down & let it go. Done. He's not likely to re-organize all the fools on the hill, HOWEVER we all pray he could. If you are so disallusioned by govt. then please go after them. Leave one of the things many, not all, hold dear. WHO are YOU? If my & many, many others ideas of a GOD ruled world is the only saving grace, then embrace it or not. Because when all of mankind lets go of a "godly" world, you my friend should head for the hills, because then it becomes "HOORAY FOR ME, THE HELL WITH YOU!!" Kind of sounds like "GANG" mentality doesn't it? Good luck with that. And just an important footnote here, does it NOT say on our own American currency... IN GOD WE TRUST?
The non Catholics and people from other faith are the less qualified to demand changes in the church related to Dogmas and their belief.
Homosexual Marriage never will be accepted by te Catholic Church.
Abortion never will be accepted by the Catholic Church.
Those two thing called " modernization " never will happen. There are many other Non-Catholic Churches that welcome those changes. The Catholic Church is not interested in made those changes for the sake of increase their filigrees.
Priest Marriage, Woman priest it might be possible?
Cleaning the House, it is s must, inside Vatican and outside, that will be the most important step for the Catholic Church in order to get credibility from Catholics and non Catholics.
@crimson from Atlanta
If you really think that the pedophile problem in the Catholic church has been going on just since the first accusation made public or since the advent of mass media you got a real problem. When I say the religion IS out of control and has been for centuries, I meant every evil thing it has been doing, not just molesting children. It's leaders have, in fact, been molesting and raping children for centuries. Just because it isn't in current news sources doesn't mean that it didn't happen in the past. GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT!!!
crimson from Atlanta:
Umm.. You mean Galileo Galilei was a priest? He was an italian astronomer and scientist who proved in the mid 1600's the sun does not revolved around the earth. No priest did this, it was a 'secular' citizen.
Try paying attention in history class. It's no wonder this country is falling behind the rest of the world in education.
http://askville.amazon.com/year-Catholic-church-apologize-putting-Galileo-trial/AnswerViewer.do?requestId=16361834
Could be true? Really? Where does the 'pope' say it could be true?
Umm... There may or may not be a god. The point is, the catholic church or any other religion for that matter does NOT make the civil laws for the United States of America, period. All organized religion does is divide people.
You mean, make me do your homework. Remember, google is your friend, TRY IT.
Say what you will about this comment.... it will not darken my days.
When the tv showed an earlier meeting of the now....Francis I , there was a look in his eye that just struck me to be a man of belief, hope & sincerity. And that was on tv. Sometimes... you truly can see into the soul. I've seen it with some children & adults. The joy, the pain, the hope, the admiration of others. There are no guarantees, ever. However, I see a new & good change for the church. Francis will shine, I'm expecting only great things ahead for the churches around the world. And if you don't agree, fine. Just don't rain on everyone else's parade thank you very much. Let us relish in our celebration. Nobody likes a party pooper.
Can you explain what Christian leader are attacking gays and women with as much ferocity as they could muster, in the name of Jesus. I gues you are just parroting nonsenses, have you been personaly attacked in the name of Jesus. Do you think that not accept homosexual marriages is an attack, you are wrong, you have to accept other people belief.
Don't you realize how bigot you are, and how bigots are people like those that made this comment
Look at yourself, look how much decomposed matter you have inside , you and all those who are considered atheists are a group of cynical and break one of the main rules in society, be tolerant and respect other beliefs, even when you are not in agreement.
Priests should be allowed to marry. The Church currently is made up of thousands of sex-starved priests. This is what is driving the child molest crisis in the Church. Also, people seek advise from their parish priests on subjects such as marrage counceling to advice on raising their children. A married priest will have a better picture of married life and parenting if they were allowed to be married.
Is the secular educatoin and public school the one is falling behind. Just look at some facts as examples.
Results From Grade 8
Reading
In the first set of analyses, all private schools were compared to all public schools. The average private school mean reading score was 18.1 points higher than the average public school mean reading score,
Mathematics
In the first set of analyses, all private schools were again compared to all public schools. The average private school mean mathematics score was 12.3 points higher than the average public school mean mathematics score, corresponding to an effect size of .38
Catholic high schools in the United States have a 99.1% graduation rate, compared to a 73.1% graduation rate at public schools. The report also found that 84.7% of Catholic high school graduates attend four-year colleges, compared to 44.1% of public high school graduates
A 2009 comparison between public and Catholic school SAT scores show that public school students had an overall average of 496 points on the critical reading portion of the test while Catholic school students scored 533 points on the same portion. Catholic school students outscored their public school counterparts by an average of 23 points.
What makes the numbers more impressive is that Catholic high schools spend more than $2,000 less per pupil than public schools.
Wow,
If your logic is correct, every sex starved married man would be a pedophile by now.
Could you explain to me your link between lack of sex and pedophilia ?
Seems to me that the new "CEO" of the Catholic Corporation should use a bit of the billions they got stashed to help with the economies around the world - maybe even help with some infrastructure - instead of buying up blocks and blocks of real estate. A little less "say"....and a lot more "do".
Wayne,
Are you saying that people in the church are sinners?
That is true...
What crimes are you specifically talking about...There were books back then.
What book are talking about?
What is your source specifically?
What crimes are you listing specifically...?
You have to have a source because the MEDIA outright lies about Catholic history and distorts things...
One cannot base all of their belief system on hearsay and liberal media.
needs to get rid of the boy rapers
As a survivor of priest rape and torture, it amazes me how the Parishioners of the RCC are. If you speak out against this, they come out in droves to protect and defend. If you are a survivor like me, then you are subject from these scum, how you are a liar, a gold digger, looking for a payday from their church, an atheist out to destroy the church, or hey, I seduced the priest, must have loved it, that is why I kept my mouth shut for so long. I have listened to other priest abuse survivors who state the same thing. Most are afraid to speak out because of the slams we do get. Some are so freaking scared about speaking out against this, they fear that the church will send someone to kill them. I have even been told, shut my mouth or I could end up like John Labbe. He was a priest abuse survivor who was found shot to death in his shed in Plymouth NH.
but guess what? I am NOT going to shut up. I lived in fear for 38 years. I lived in horror for 38 years. I will NOT live like this any longer. I will speak out, I will make my voice heard. I will tell about the evil that was done to me at the hands of a priest at St Thomas More parish in Durham NH. I will speak out about all I have learned in research for my book Our Father Who Art in Hell. I will continue to smash and bash the Cardinals and Popes who covered this evil up and put the church before the children. I will expose each and every scum I can expose who raped children as priests and nuns. I have absolutely no problem nor any fear of any of you apologists, or scum who defend this church of Pedophile Pimps and Priests.
Wayne,
You say the Catholic Church has been "molesting and raping children for centuries"...
Who did this?
When?
What country?
Who were the children?
Who were the priests and bishops who did it?
If they did that, I want to know more about it. Give specifics. Please.
Get out your basement and see the world, actually stay in your basement and do some research, how many hospital, hospices, schools , kitchens have the Catholic Church around the world, they need voluntaries like you, well educated willing to help others.
Crimson - You want specifics? What about Frank? He posted. Are you going to ignore him and the abuse he faced? One of the reasons that priests have gotten away with having sex with boys for years, decades, and possibly centuries is that in the church, because they don't consider sex with the same gender as real sex (it's an abonomation, remember?) they aren't breaking their vows of celebacy, and boys don't get pregnant. There was at least ONE pope with children, possibly more. Also, by demanding specifics in an accusatory of lying tone, you're engaging in the same behavior that Frank said all priest abuse survivors feel.
I think one other thing that they need to add to the article above is that the pope needs to make sure the church stays out of politics - not just in the US but in every country. The church loses credibility when it sides with politicians. It needs to remain neutral, and be able to act as a mediator when needed. Francis I needs to clean house and deal with the issues at hand. If he doesn't, he really might be the last Pope.
If there is a war on religion it is within their own walls. They cannot even agree among themselves what is the wish of God so how can they accuse anyone else of wagering a war on them.
A New York Times/CBS News poll of Catholics last week found that six in 10 support gay marriage, and seven in 10 want the church to allow birth control. Three-quarters supported abortion in at least some circumstances. In Argentina, then-Cardinal Bergoglio clashed with the president over a 2010 law allowing gay marriage.
Oh the irony of it all. The new pope supports the minority within his own church.
@ debnran
This pope will not stop the church from engaging in politics because he himself has been guilty of it.
@ ItsAboutTime-3704531: You deride crimson from Atlanta for saying a priest came up with the big bang theory. All else aside, he was correct in that regard.
It was originally described as the "Hypothesis of the primeval atom"- but it was originated by a Catholic priest (who also happened to be a professor of astronomy and physics at the Catholic University of Louvaine) by the name of Georges Lemaitre, who published his theory some two years prior to Edwin Hubble's article.
As a consequence, the "Big Bang Theory", which Hubble popularized in America, is widely misattributed, along with another milestone- "Hubble's Constant".
Galileo was....just a bit earlier.
It's about time,
I misunderstood your first comment and thus, misresponded...
But you are wrong...The beginning of this country and the writing of the constitution was highly influenced by
the bible...Most of the founders were Christian...Several were ministers...
Check out Wallbuilders.com...It has resources regarding this.
Well, the church elected another staunch anti-gay, anti-abortion, anti-birth control Pope!
That will help them stop the spiraling decline of followers! (dusts hands off)
And how can they elect someone who is anti-gay rights, when one of the main things that butler stated was how there's an entire "underground gay culture" within the Vatican. Man...if I was into penis, I would probably enroll in the priesthood where Im locked away with a bunch of "sinners" in fancy robes, or where i have non-stop access to young boys!
What a bunch of f***ing hypocrites!!!!
“I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. “You shall have no other gods before me. “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth."
redvirginia
Thanks for the education on "catholic' schools vs public schools. Why not do a real analysis and show me the total numbers for both? The 'education' rates may be higher for catholic students then public students, but let's really do a deeper analysis after they graduate.
P.S. My comment wasn't about the quality of education in K-12. It's the education after people graduate. Some of the comments on the vine are based on 'thoughts' not on facts. Thank you for the comment.
crimson from Atlanta
Umm no..
In the United States, GOD is not mentioned anywhere in the US Constitution, nor is the bible, nor is Christianity the national religion of the United States.
According to Amendment #1 - Congress shall make no laws for the establishment of a religion combined with SCOTUS rulings on separation of church from state, and quotes from our founding fathers:
Religious institutions that use government power in support of themselves and force their views on persons of other faiths, or of no faith, undermine all our civil rights. Moreover, state support of an established religion tends to make the clergy unresponsive to their own people, and leads to corruption within religion itself. Erecting the 'wall of separation between church and state,' therefore, is absolutely essential in a free society.”
― Thomas Jefferson
I support and respect everyone's freedom of religion. That's part of being an American. However, being an American also means, we are not required to live under any kind of religious laws either. Thank you for the comment, but keep religion out of our government.
1.- Cover up for all pedophile priests.
2.- Make enough money to pay all lawsuits.
3.- Learn a couple of words in different languages.
4.- Learn how to twitter.
5.- Get used to the best things in life (food, wine, cars, toilet paper, etc)
6.- Travel around the world.
7.- Wake up earlier.
I am not Catholic nor do I agree with much of the dogma surrounding it, but I admire the Catholic Church for standing firm in its religious doctrine and belief in spite of the haters.
As soon as atheists stop shoving their views down the throats of people who choose to worship God, and stop pressuring believers to adhere to their chosen godless lifestyles, the better off this whole planet will be.
Faith is just as much of a choice as abortion or birth control.
Crimson -
Lambert (2003) has examined the religious affiliations and beliefs of the Founders. Of the 55 delegates to the 1787 Constitutional Convention, 49 were Protestants, and two were Roman Catholics (D. Carroll, and Fitzsimons). Among the Protestant delegates to the Constitutional Convention, 28 were Church of England (or Episcopalian, after the American Revolutionary War was won), eight were Presbyterians, seven were Congregationalists, two were Lutherans, two were Dutch Reformed, and two were Methodists.
A few prominent Founding Fathers were anti-clerical Christians, such as Thomas Jefferson (who created the so-called "Jefferson Bible") and Benjamin Franklin. Others (most notably Thomas Paine) were deists, or at least held beliefs very similar to those of deists.
I know for a fact that Franklin was a Quaker, Adams was a Unitarian Universalist. Jefferson and Washington were Anglican (before the war) and Episcopalian (after the war), but were influenced by Deists. Like the deists Washington avoided the word "God" and instead used the term "Providence." He never talked about Jesus Christ, though he did refer to Christianity as the religion of Christ.
Deism is the belief that reason and observation of the natural world are sufficient to determine the existence of God, accompanied with the rejection of revelation and authority as a source of religious knowledge.
Thomas Jefferson was a Deist and there are written documents in his own handwriting where he refers to God as "Our Maker."
And this was written by Benjamin Franklin in 1784 to friends in Europe. He was speaking about life in America:
"Serious religion, under its various denominations, is not only tolerated, but respected and practiced. Atheism is unknown there; infidelity rare and secret; so that persons may live to a great age in that country without having their piety shocked by meeting with either an atheist or infidel. And the Divine Being seems to have manifested His approbation of the mutual forbearance and kindess with which the different sects treat each other, by the remarkable prosperity with which He has been pleased to favor the whole country."
These were not perfect men, but they did believe in God, and were not shy in admitting it.
I, too, believe in separation of church and state, but I also believe that we should all be able to practice our faith (or lack of it) without the condescending attitudes of those who believe differently.
The King James bible that i know teaches us what God wants us to know about him and how we should live our lives. Nowhere in my bible does God give anyone the right to change His laws. I can show you in my bible where God created women to be with man. I can also show you where it is an abomination in Gods eyes for a man to lie down with another man. Also, where does it say in the bible that any priest, cardinal, or pope can forgive any mans sins? I can see that the Roman Catholic church has distorted the bible to suit there needs. The Sabbath day is Saturday folks, not Sunday, and the only way into Heaven is by knowing what your Savior did for you on the cross and excepting His grace. I was raised Protestant but found the Seventh Day Adventist church to be the best informed of all the religions out there. Don't just except what you are told by any religion, get your answers in the bible. Amen.
Asking atheists to comment on God and the religious beliefs of Catholics, is like asking NAMBLA take over child protection in the United Nations. Asking people who are not Catholic, do not understand the nature of the Catholic Church, is akin to asking a first aid instructor to perform brain surgery.
The fact is that "gay" relationships, adultery, fornication, abortion, etc., has always been condemned by God and forbidden by the Church--these are not new ideas, just tired old sins and perversions.
So much of the liberal bias in the press seem to want to make the Catholic Church, which has lasted since the Descent of the Holy Spirit, a mere business or corporation. Regardless of the simplistic views of the press and populace, nothing will change, nor should it.
Moral behavior is not determined by what makes you feel good, but rather a principle of behavior founded on natural law and revelation.
The Church has lost millions of followers, thus multi-millions of $$$. If the suggested changes are made, this would put them back on track. It won't happen because the Church will not admit it was wrong.
The Catholic Church cannot compromise its beliefs. If others don't approve, they don't have to be Catholics. Unlike political candidates, the Church cannot "evolve" in regard to its basic beliefs.
The first Canon law against priests raping kids dates back at least to the Council of Elvira in 306 AD, so clearly the pedophilia problem in the church has been going on for a very long time: "Those who sexually abuse boys may not commune even when death approaches."
Although calling the cops would have been a far better policy than merely denying communion to priests who rape children. It doesn't sound like the church understands the issue any better today than it did 1700 years ago, since they still don't call the cops when they discover a priest has raped a child.
POPE FRANCIS NEEDS TO EXPLAIN WHY GAYS CAN'T ADOPT BABIES, BUT GOVERNMENT SPONSORED TERRORISTS CAN......
THE POPE'S REAL TO DO LIST:
1) Get rid of the funny costumes- this is 2013, not 1320.
2) Admit that the running of any religion has absolutely nothing to do with the teachings of Jesus Christ.
3) Allow women to participate equally in spreading God's word.
4) Stop persecuting minorities and gays for being as God created them. Admit that it's OK.
5) Apologize for 2000 years of lies, wars, and greed. Admit this isn't what Jesus wanted. Sell the artwork.
6) Make science your friend and not your enemy. Experiments beat myticism every time.
7) Show the world how Jesus would have acted by example, not by pronouncements.
Hello folks, this mortal man who is just another human has a checkered past.
Don't let anyone kid you the Vatican is worth at a minimum hundreds of billions of dollars. The new Pope Moe Lester in charge will live in the lavish gold encrusted opulence that is the Vatican.
"Former Cardinal and Pope-elect “Francis I”, Jorge Mario Bergoglio, is accused of helping kidnap opponents of Argentina’s military junta during the 1970′s “Dirty War”, and of baby trafficking, by lawyers and members of the Plaza de Mayo human rights group. (Los Angeles Times, April 17, 2005, “Argentine Cardinal Named in Kidnapping Lawsuit”,http://articles.latimes.com/2005/apr/17/world/fg-cardinal17
"General Jorge Rafael Videla and some of his military and police cohorts were convicted by their country’s courts of the murder of 31 people between April and October 1976, a small fraction of the killings they were responsible for. What one did not hear from any senior member of the Argentine hierarchy was any expression of regret for the church’s collaboration and in these crimes. The extent of the church’s complicity in the dark deeds was excellently set out by Horacio Verbitsky, one of Argentina’s most notable journalists, in his book El Silencio (Silence). He recounts how the Argentine navy with the connivance of Cardinal Jorge Bergoglio, now the Jesuit archbishop of Buenos Aires, hid from a visiting delegation of the Inter-American Human Rights Commission the dictatorship’s political prisoners. Bergoglio was hiding them in nothing less than his holiday home in an island called El Silencio in the River Plate. The most shaming thing for the church is that in such circumstances Bergoglio’s name was allowed to go forward in the ballot to chose the successor of John Paul II. What scandal would not have ensued if the first pope ever to be elected from the continent of America had been revealed as an accessory to murder and false imprisonment."
8) Stop supporting fascism and death squads.
9) Let gays adopt, but don't let torturers and murderers engage in baby trafficking.
I agree they are reluctant to compromise their beliefs, although throughout history they have compromised all over the place. (i.e., priests cannot marry, then they can, then they can't...) Yet, they bemoan the fact that the Church is less and less relevant in this day. They are losing money by the bucketfuls; but they can't have it both ways, now, can they?
A 76.5 year old man who has spent his life in the church will not make any changes to the 7 items listed in this article. Discuss, sure, change nope.
Most likely, not. More reason that Nostradamus' prognostication about his being the last pope will play out.
Redvirgina - great analysis. I went to Catholic schools from kindergarten to college. You had me up until you stated it was cheaper per student than public school. Please expand on that. My parents paid out of pocket and later me for college with no assistance from the parish nor diocese. Mid-way through my high school years, the state gave my dad a tax break on the tuition for high school tuition. However, I wouldn't have traded it for the world and saw to it that my children received a catholic school education for the very reasons you outlined.
Don't expect much. The Church is almost never about reform, and almost by definition does nothing wrong.
The Church will never change to feed the appetites of the whims of the day...
The Church stays the same...No matter how much pressure "the world" puts on it.
The Catholic Church is FULL TRUTH...It was started by Jesus Christ...
The only religion to be started by JC.
While it is full of SINNERS like everywhere else, it has always prevailed...
Erm... if we're going by age of religion, I'm pretty sure Hinduism has all of you beat. Not to mention that Christianity is mostly piggybacking off Judaism, given that Christianity is defined by the New Testament, which literally was a rewrite of the Old Testament. If I had to give a modern day analogy, think Everquest (Old Testament) vs. World of Warcraft (New Testament).
The Church must stop the use of voodoo used by evil Mexicans.
Santa Muerte, saint death, must be condemned.
Mexicans in drug cartels, street gangs, and illegals must be EXCOMMUNICATED!
@crimson from Atlanta
OK? Started by JC himself? ROFLMAO!!! Just ask yourself "What would Jesus do?" Would He send soldiers to kill scores of people that don't beieve like He does for the promise of heaven? Would He forbid his pastors/priests from getting married? Would He molest and rape children then cover it up? Jesus Christ didn't start any religion. In fact, He hated religion. Read your Bible and then and only then will you find the real truth about religion and humanity not someone's interpretation of it.
Wayne,
You need to read your bible mathew 16: 13-20...
Then talk to me about reading my bible...
You are still not giving any specifics...
The Catholic Church existed for 1500 years before the reformation...It was the Christian Church...Read about the fathers of the church...
Read John 6---
Protestants ignore everything in their bible that disproves their individualistic take on the bible...
Sola Scriptura---
In protestantism, everyone is their own pope interpretting the bible in a million ways...
We have one pope who succeeded directly from Saint Peter...Check it out in the bible...Mathew 16:13-20
Please read the next 4 verses in Matt 16. Jesus calls Peter Satan
Frank,
Thank you for sharing your story. I am also appalled that Catholic lay people are silent. They are not unlike Hitler's willing citizenry who stood by and basked in the power and prestige of the Third Reich instead of rising up when they could.
I am sorry for your experiences. I can't imagine. You continue away to bash those who would harm children. That is moral.
Catholics should be standing right along side you. Something tells me they would rather not face the facts. It's a disgrace to the human race. And like you say, what is to be done with those who come here and defend rapists?
I don't know if you are an atheist, and I don't care. You are a human being who has been wronged and the organization that covered it up is getting away with it. I stand with you.
ThaMonkeh,
From all of your posts I have read recently, it is clear you are not very familiar with the Old or New Testament. I am guessing that you get your information from atheist websites, but if you truly wish to speak knowledgeably about the Bible or about what Christians believe, then it would behoove you to actually read it.
A statement like "the New Testament is a rewrite of the Old Testament" is not only completely inaccurate, it is also downright silly.
This is the problem with ALL religions Protestant, Catholic, Muslim etc... They quote the Bible and other religious books when it is convenient for them(usually out of context), when it suits their purpose, and to support their skewed point of view. I could get into a scripture quoting war with anyone out there to prove my point, as I am a Bible scholar, but it is pointless and counter-productive. The real point is ALL religions are evil, period. The many doctrines of fear that religions teach turn many away from GOD and prove my point. Sheep will follow their sheppard, even if it is over a cliff. You can live your life in a religious world where you can give your money to a corrupt organization who glories in what little they do for people, or you can live in the real world and help your fellow man and not let anyone know what you do including the person you help. This is what God wants from humanity... do unto others what you would have them do unto you, not some stupid religion.
Crimson - the only resource you have is the Bible - you do not have any other resource what so ever that backs up what that one book says. Even so - the books in the New Testament... the ones attributed to the Apostles. Were NOT written by them. They were written centuries after their deaths. In fact, it's been postured that the Apostles were illiterate! Only the one who worked previously as a tax collector would have been able to write - they had no need of it. Fishermen surely would have had no need. They weren't Rabbis. They didn't have time for schooling because they were either too busy putting food on the table, learning a trade, or hanging around with Jesus. That's why Jesus went out to the world and taught face to face instead of just sending out letters to people.
Why do you think there was a Reformation? Why were there Protestants? Because the Catholic Church had many abuses. Catholics killed people simply because they wanted to believe a different way. They sold indulgences - the ability to do whatever you wanted, including murder, rape and much worse - and still be able to get into heaven if you have enough money. They stifled intellectual growth - they excommunicated Gallaleo and other scientists. How many Muslims, Incans, Seminoles, Moors, and non-Catholics did they kill in the name of Jesus? Ponce de Leon in Florida brought priests with him from Spain. They would ask the Seminoles and other Native people to believe the priests and monks - if they did not - they lopped off a body part, and then asked them again and again and again until the person died of blood loss, or they ran out of body parts to cut off, or the poor indian "repented", in which case, they usually had infection set in, but they died a Catholic. More wars were fought over Catholicism, and Jesus than for any other reason after the Catholic Church took hold. Look what they did with "witches" in europe - they burned so many that they had a wood shortage. Their abuses to women started long before the first Synod in Carthage when they decided which works belonged in THEIR BIBLE. They edited it. They authored it - not God. They had no more idea who actually wrote it than the Emperor Constantine's mother knew where the True Cross was - as if anyone knew where the cross ended up after Jesus was taken off of it and put in the cave of Joseph of Aramathea. They didn't even know he was supposed to be resurrected, so they wouldn't have put the Cross any place special. The Romans more than likely used it again and again.
he has already started @!$%# in Argentina!
debnran,
I don't know where you get your information on the New Testament gospels, but they are completely inaccurate. Actually, the Apostle Paul's letters were written around 60 AD and were the first of the gospels written. Shortly after that when the generation who walked with Christ and witnessed his life were dying off, those that remained began to record the life of Christ for future generations.
You are really mxed up with your other facts as well. Best advice is that you should stop reading a lot of nonsense online and get into the Bible and start reading the New Testament and find out for yourself what it says. Unless, of course, you are really a closet atheist intent on confusing nominal Christians and hope to gain something by it.
Prove it. The earliest known of the Gospels is dated to the 300's. They were all written AFTER the deaths of the Apostles. There are no known written works that can be attributed to the physical writing of any of the Apostles. None - not one scrap of parchment.
Oh, I should stop reading nonsense... like scientific reports that carbondated the fragments and scholarly books on the development of Christianity? I think you should get your nose out of the Bible and start looking into the HISTORY of the religion.
Ok, so you are atheist.
Now it fits.
History in most cases only proves that the Bible is accurate from a historical standpoint.
Even secular scholars will tell you that. Whether you believe its contents is purely choice.
Faith is a choice as much as abortion or birth control. If you choose not to believe it, that's fine. But please don't shove a bunch of inaccurate information down our throats in an attempt to prove that you have no soul.
True about the new pope. He already has a history of being WITHOUT compassion. Being Lutheran, it doesn't matter to me who is pope. People of true faith know we don't rely on other human beings for our salvation. I don't condemn people that feel differently and love differently. That would make me a hypocrite. The fact that this new pope already has stated his views on gays, abortion (we all know that will not change) is clear to anyone with ears that the Vatican will continue to be ruled by strict doctrines and unwillingness to even have a "faithful conversation" about divisive issues. To those of the RCC: Good Luck and remember-if you don't agree with your church, there are other options. The RCC is not the only Church on earth. It is not the one and only "True" Church as well. If you believe that-you have been terribly misguided. I would know. I used to be an RC.
The truth is that the Catholic church always chooses an old man from the previous century to be the pope. Nothing will change. Pedophiles will continue to be free in this protected and exclusive club.
They could start by selling the robes and dresses covered in gold. That could bring some money for the "poor "that they are always preaching about.
THIS IS THE 21 CENTURY.
However, It is up to you to make sure that your children do not get close to one of these "priests" Remember: They think that they are above the LAW
Bet your all for gays in The Boy Scouts.
The church does more good, even with golden garb and ivory towers, than government has ever done to make you a servant unto itself. It is our present "regime" that thinks it is above the law and the constitution, which has roots in Christianity. Rip us apart from our creator and it is Big Brother that gives you rights, not naturally born ones from our Creator.
Nice to see an Argentinian pope. Even though I am not Catholic may he lead the faithful as well as John Paul did.
The Church has hid criminal pedofiles from the law for decades. Tough to balance that against the good they have done. They have also discouraged people from using birth control, many of whom are poor and uneducated and therefore listen to the Church's nonsense on the matter.
While yes they do some good, they are currently in the process of closing some 2000 schools in the USA. Schools that offered hope to a lot of the children living in poor communities. They claim they can't afford it when at the same time they continue to build expensive buildings, and have more million dollar paintings, than they have wall space to hang them on.
brutal truth,
There are plenty of faith-free organizations that do wonderful acts of charity. I just donated money to a national breast cancer research center that spends upwards of 340 million dollars on science. KIVA is a well known site where atheist groups routinely outspend religions. You do know the International Red Cross is not a Christian company right! LOL. It's secular.
Atheists I know simply care about human sufffering, including those harmed by faith. We do good, or I should speak for myself, I do good for goodness sake not out of fear (hell) or because of reward (crowns in heaven). What a concept, eh?
And regarding the Catholic Church in particular, it's bloatedness obstructs science on gargantuan levels. Consider the revenue of billions in tax excemptions they receive. Billions that could be sending robots to Mars and beyond every single year or possible new research into treatments for serious diseases.
Faith is still very much in the way of progress.
The clothes are for WORSHIP OF GOD. In the old testament, the priests had to where special clothes...It is irreverant to come in your pajamas...
Their artwork was done around the 1400s and during the renaissance...
Where are all these buildings they are buying...
They are closing schools and churches in the north becasue everyone is moving south to find jobs.
Atheists give very little to charity
compared to Christians...
Look it up.
crimson,
Even if you were right what does that have to do with whether or not Christianity is true? Hint: it doesnt.
Crimson - you don't know what you're talking about. If Christians gave to charity, we would have no need for welfare or any other social program.
Your beloved Catholic Church ran slave labor in Ireland until 1996 (Magdalene Asylums). While they were origianally set up for fallen women (Protestant, of course), they later took any female - Catholic, protestant, or other religion. They took girls from orphanages, foster care etc and worked them in the laundries in brutal, slave like conditions. They were unpaid, their names changed, every part of their lives were controlled by these nuns. They had their hair cut, upon entry, in a distinctive cut so that they could not run away without being found out. They were abused by nuns and by priests. In one of the instances I read about, the only transgression the girl had was that her widowed mother and her boy friend refused to show up at the church for a forced wedding (this was in the 1960's) because the church thought they had been dating long enough. When they refused to show up, wanting to take their time deciding on getting married (they later did get married), the woman's 3 daughters and 2 sons from her previous marriage were taken away, and put in foster care. The oldest daughter sent to the Magdalene Asylum when she skipped out on her work as a maid (unpaid, of course) to go to a movie theater. Before she was admitted, they subjected her to a painful examination to ensure whether she was a virgin or not. While there, she was tortured by both nuns and priests.
This is your idea of charity?
IRespond (without even thinking) -
Yes, ONLY Catholics have done such evil things. NO ONE ELSE. Right, I get your hatred. It is obvious. Ever heard of all the Protestant sex abuse cases??
If you want to point fingers. lets go one step farther and point the finger at the Vatican II USA Catholic Church. That is where EVERY SINGLE abuse case happened.
As for the old argument about selling the Vatican riches to "save the poor" - what was it that Jesus said??
"The poor you will always have with you".
Wow, I'll bet Obama has trouble with THAT one.
Nothing happened in the Traditional Catholic Churches - here in the USA or on foreign soil.
As for "getting into the 21st century". What has "modernism" done for us?
1. Made a lot of people think that yesterday is of no use.
2.Made a lot of people believe what companies tell us we need to by because it is "new".
3.Caused a lot of trouble as "modern" thought has everyone "doing that which is right in their own eyes". Does that sound familiar? It should. It is from the book of Malachi and it describes the world right before God destroys it. So we have THAT going for us.
We do not need "modern" thought any more than we need "time saving devices" in our kitchen or "space saving devices" in our garages. Have you ever noticed how those things DO NOT DO WHAT THEY CLAIM?????
Catholics must return to our faith. Our faith is 2,000 years old. Disregard the moronic "Vatican II" idea that some feel compelled to prop up as if it is still alive. We need to return to our Traditions that St. Paul said we should "never leave". St. Paul also taught that we should not listen to "other Gospels" (as in the gospel taught in the "modern" USA Catholic Churches that we can receive Christ at Communion as we stand and feed it to ourselves with our unclean hands with no reverence at all).
I am glad Holy Father Francis is conservative (we do not have to allow gays in, that is sin (we should not allow bank robbers or any other people who refuse to acknowledge and repent of their sins) and is humble. It is a VERY nice change from the gaudy and irreverent JP II who felt compelled to show the world what HE can do.
Today, the Catholic Church is trying to make JPII a Saint this week. About 50 years and many miracles proven before his time. That disgraces all the previous Saints who actually did great things.
God Bless Holy Father Francis.
Dominus Vobiscum.
TCITA - point by point.
Of course more than catholics have done evil things. None of what's being said is about lay people though, catholic or otherwise. Do you not agree that holy leaders should be held to a higher standard, however? The vatican's occupants need to be the role model for how Catholics should live. Hiding sex abuse cases is surely not being a good role model, is it.
You're wrong. Abuse cases happened outside of the US. A cardinal in Europe recently had to stand down because of how he handled the abuse cases in his own district.
Selling the Vatican. That's your response, really? "The poor will always be with us" is an excuse for the catholic church to hoard wealth, in violation of every priest's vow of poverty? I admit I am unfamiliar with the context of that quote, but from what I do know about Jesus, I bet it was more a warning that the work of helping the poor will never end, not that it's ok to hoard more wealth than any other religious organization on the planet.
Modernization. - People are imperfect. However, there are serious issues facing the world that the church does need to address that are 21st century problems, like the rapidly growing population. Allowing barrier-based birth control like condoms seems like it should be a viable, modern aid to help temper this problem.
I'm really not sure where to go on with you on the next diatribe. I happen to agree with you that you shouldn't touch the Eucharist. However, I don't think that my taking the Host in my hand or on my tongue will cure many of the world's problems. And based on the whole "What you hold true on Earth I will hold true in Heaven" teaching, God doesn't care one way or another either.
You DO have to allow gays in. That's part of caring for the flock. If you exclude gays for their 'sin' (not saying I agree that it is a sin. I tend to wear poly/cotton blends, and eat pork, and I shave, and I married a divorced woman, which are also 'sins' in Leviticus) then you'll have some very empty pews, once you need to exclude every sinner.
I liked JP 2. I won't attempt to argue differently, we can agree to disagree there. I agree it's too early for discussions of sainthood for him though.
It is obvious that you belong to the group of people that think "old times were always better" That is, until you end at the hospital for a surgery. Then suddenly you like the 21st century, and want to know the most advanced science! (By the way, mankind is 2000 years behind THANKS to the catholic church! What else do you want?)
Enough said. I don't want to waste my time answering to your comments!
Erin McClam, Staff Writer, NBC News, needs to do her homework.
Ordained female priests are impossible in the Catholic Church and that is not subject to change -- ever. Ref. the dogmatic document Ordinatio Sacerdotalis.
No priests can ever marry, although married men can be ordained priests. No married man will ever be a bishop (this is also true in Orthodox.) Don't expect any changes in the Latin Rite of the Church for the next 100+ years in this area.
Abortion, homosexual "marriage" and artificial birth control are also impossible within the Church. I'm not sure how a responsible journalist could even bring up such things?
Almost by definition reform is impossible in the Church.
They hide and protect criminal pedofiles, I think maybe one or two have gone to jail.
Given the make up and history of the Church, most of what she writes about is impossible.
The Church unfortunately is using religion to cover up their crimes. At the same time they close some 2000 schools in the USA, which was one of the good things there were doing. They claim they dont have the money, when all they needed to do was sell a few paintings. They are awash in money, and things of value.
Exactly! Which is why your "church" is an abomination against the real teachings of Christ. Add a pope (ayatollah) who is deemed a "perfect" requirement for your relationship with "god" and you have the makings of exactly what the church is - an institution whose existence is primarily a cult dedicated to the sustainment of power by those who make the "rules".
REFORM IS IMPOSSIBLE IN THE CHURCH....WHY?
Because it is GOD's Church started by Jesus Christ 2000 years ago...
You want to reform Jesus?
The Catholic Church assembled the bible..
It's like saying "Let's "REFORM" the bible!!!"
crimson from Atlanta
The Martin Luther Cut and Paste Bible???
He sold millions to an illiterate Europe!
The greatest scam in the history of the world!
I'm still surprised that ACORN didn't get the job for Obummbler because once while attending college under his foreign student scholarship, Barack smoked a cigarette with a Catholic.
ACORN has been out of business for at least five years.
Nonsense. The one thing about traditions is that they always change.
"Tradition" is just a polite tip of the hat to stagnation in the past.
William Travis,
Luther took the Catholic bible and cut a couple chapters out (Sirach, Esther, etc)
and decide he could interpret the bible..
The bible was assembled early in the 1st centuries by the first Christians...
Read about the "Early Father's of the Church".
If you do, you will realize everything the C. Church teaches is based in the bible...
and Protestantism conveniently turns a blind eye to the the Eucharist teaching in John 6...
and other things including pope succession..Matthew 16:12-20
Crimson: Wrong. The bible was assembled in the 300's by the Synod of Carthage, in which more was prohibited from going INTO the Bible than was actually allowed to go in. Any references to women in ANY position of authority was removed - therefore the Gospel of Mary Magdalene was not allowed in (although the Gnostics kept it). They did not check on the authenticity of the work - they just accepted it if it fit their guidelines. Much of it was politicized - there were trade offs and other things going on.
The reformation was to take the excesses from the Catholics and make a REAL church.
Asia and the Middle East have their own nasty religions to deal with. Don't tell me that Muslims are about to get rid of those ridiculous and disgusting parkas.
They are worse than Catholics.
Don't kid yourself. The Church is murdering witches in Africa in the 21st century.
Wow I hope Hillary Clinton and Nancy Pelosi know about that...they better protect themselves better than Hillary potected our embassy people if they go to the dark continent... I hope I'm not being a racist by calling it that
Not a racist, merely a religious bigot.
ItsAboutTime - you are a typical libiot. Do your research some of the most important scientific finds in human history were done by Catholic monks, priests and other important Catholic figures. Do some research next time and quit spreading your atheist lies.
Seriously ???
You mean research about how they put people in jail for saying the Earth goes around the Sun ? How they found the truth through the Inquisition ? how they protected criminal pedofiles from the law ? how they denied the slaughter of Jews in WWII ?
All these great advances we owe to them ?
Of course there is some good with the bad. But I'm not betting the balance is in their favor.
And I am not an atheist, just against organized religion which has used God as an excuse to cover up crimes. Catholics being far from the only religion doing this.
You are listening to Catholic-hating PROPAGANDA...Bill Kamps
The pope hid many jews in the vatican...warned Germans about Hitler...
A priest originated the "big bang" theory...
Never believe what the secular liberal media says about Catholics...they lie...They hate the Church because it represents Jesus Christ...
The Catholic Church in the US gave the OK to fight Hitler during WW2.
Why can't they give us the OK to fight the Mexicans who are now invading the United States and stealing America's resources from the poor??
Crimson - I apologize.
I didnt realize the pedofiles, the jailing of Galileo, the Inquisition were myths put out by the media.
My mistake.
You guys can go back to being perfect.
BillKamps,
I asked for a source...
not excuses...
BillKamps,
You are right about the Inquisition...
The Church is full of fallible people...
It has made mistakes...It will make more mistakes...
But on the end of ethics and morality...That will not change...
This Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Christ...What other church can say that?
Read Matt 16
crimson, answer this
a woman is impregnated by a man, not her husband, without her knowledge or consent, is that considered rape?
or, if she knew she would be impregnated, and gave consent, by someone not her husband, does that make her an adulteress?
I guess the biggest mystery in science would be, how did Mary become pregnant without benefit of a sperm cell uniting with an egg? If your church has made so many scientific discoveries how could they not admit "immaculate conception" could never happen?
Great.
Hypothetical arguments.
If a gnat picks up a grain of rice and drops it into the mouth of a Priest who is fasting for Lent - does the Priest go to Hell for ever or just until the 144,000 mentioned in Revelations can find the Holy Grail that was placed in a secret hiding place by the troops during the Last Crusade before they were all picked up by their boat, which then sank as it sailed back to Italy, right as a young man listened to those troops call out the hiding place to him and he wrote it down on a piece of clay, which was accidentally placed in the tomb of his dad and no one knows where the tomb is today.
Is that what you are talking about?
The answer is:
God - find Him, worship Him and repent of your sins.
But, he doesn't look like the anti-christ.
Ask any Republican... they will tell you that Obama is the antichrist. (An apparently ineffective antichrist since he doesn't have horns or fire breath).
but according to Joe Biden, Barack's breath stinks like Bo's behind because of all those cigarettes and Michelle's cooking
Right, since everyone knows that all other presidents have been free of Demon Tobacco, ha ha.
If he's the anti-Christ he's doing a hell of a bad job. So far, he isn't winning over the masses, AND he's running out of time to do it in.
Hope the new pope will usher a better era for the catholics. I cannot think of any other religous leadership that is so tainted as this church
Well when you claim your leader is infallable, and gets his instructions directly from God, you are setting yourself up for a mess. When you force your Priests and Nuns to be celebate you are setting yourself up for a mess.
As long as the Church clings to outdated behavior, and covers up criminals, they will continue to lose standing in the eyes of people who have any sense.
Bill Kamps,
You are probably a nice guy...but you are all wrong about the Catholic Church...
You base all your opinions by "pseudo-facts" from the liberal media...
Who is FORCED to be celibate?
Priests come in of their free will...if they feel they are called.
Celibacy is only an issue for people who believe they can't live without sex....
Joining a specific Church knowing full well what it believes and how it conducts its business. Then complaining that that Church won't change to be what you like is kind of assinine. If you don't like what the church does then join another church.
What cracks me up is item number 7: really? Apparently, whoever thinks that has never been to THIS country, that's for sure....unless this writer means "prosecution", for pedophilia.....
One, to do job, PLUG all priest helpers when services performed. You know where.
He should issue a Fatwa calling for the death of all Muslims. You know, like the Muslims do.
Pope Francis is a guy who was specifically chosen to keep the Church firmly entrenched in the Bronze Age. He's just another angry bigot who hates gays and thinks women are livestock. He's had no problems offering communion to murderous dictators but calls gays "Satanic". What a laugh. He claims to want to help the poor but is dead set against the poor being able to plan the size of their families. Another laugh. The Catholic Church is just a crime syndicate with good public relations.
Madge
Maybe Pope Francis was looking at a photograph of you when he was thinking..." of women as livestock"?
Ah... the typical teabagger response: insult the person when you can't argue the person's ideas. Oh, I'm also a man.
Then act like one...if you can.
Let's see... I work in law enforcement and supervise a caseload of 217 career criminals. Is that manly enough? What do you do for a living?
try hard to keep away from morons like you.
So you have nothing to say. Well, it makes you look less ignorant when you say nothing while keeping your mouth shut.
You, sir, very much sound like an angry bigot yourself. I believe that you have spent way too much time around criminals and have become so like minded you have lost what little humanity you may have had. Please, for your sake, and that of all society seek psychiatric help and take a leave of absence until you are healthier. God Bless. Many will be praying for you.
Bill: I will concede that supervising offenders on Parole and Probation does not exactly confer to me a rosy outlook on humanity. What is additionally disheartening is how many offenders describe themselves as religious while at the same time holding their neighbor and strangers in casual disregard.
I got ten bucks that says Butterfly Mage has a more realistic view of the 'populace' than Bob has ever seen in a mirror.
Of course, Pope Francis will be in for a nasty surprise when he visits the United States and discovers that American Christians worship Ayn Rand as their savior-goddess and that the holy trinity is Rush Limbaugh, Ronald Reagan, and George W. Bush.
Catholics like them because they are PRO-LIFE...and they respected the christian religion...
Liberals believe in pulling peoples arms off and CUTTING OFF PEOPLE'S HEADS...literally not figuratively...
Also, liberals like BURNING PEOPLE'S BODY PARTS OFF WITH ACID...
That's what the abortionists do to babies up to full term...Look it up.
It is strange that the LIBERAL DUDES like Chris Matthew and Erin Burnet(not real Catholics, fake Catholics) never talk about!!!
IF YOU CAN'T TALK ABOUT IT, THEN, WHY DO IT?
IF IT IS SO OBSCENE, THEN, WHY IS IT LEGAL?
Cutting off body parts is more of a Middle Eastern thing. And if you read history, you will find that the Church is no stranger to torturing people with acid.
These despicable people are pro-life so they get the Jesus club's stamp of approval. Ever read Ayn Rand? Hear Rush rant?
All one has to do to see the "charitable" works of the Catholic Church is take a good long look at the Vatican. If you want to see unmitigated wealth and privilege you need look no further. How many millions or billions of dollars have been donated tax free to these pedophiles over the centuries so they can live in total seclusion away from any sort of justice for their crimes and corruption??? Like somehow continuing to give these people money and worship is your ticket to eternal life? Are you kidding? People are so afraid of death they are willing to believe anything and give up everything for the chance to spend eternity with these people? Lol.
I think Valerie Harper has it right when it comes to dying. Enjoy what you have NOW while you have it. Nothing lasts forever and nothing should last forever. My version of total misery would be being stuck with these people in an elevator for five minutes let alone eternity. The news this morning spent at least 5 minutes talking about the "ring" the Pope has specially made just for him like he's God. I'd rather watch someone change a flat tire.
I needed help from the church once. 20 years ago, I was in a pretty bleak place in my life. I had no money or food. My job got downsized to part time, and I was about to get evicted. The Church refused to part with a can of soup or a loaf of bread. F''' the Church.
well maybe that pastor didn't think you were worth a can of soup or bake beans?
The sex scandals just started to be a problem since the 60s
It hasn't been a problem before that...
The Catholic Church is 2000 years old.
The Catholic Church will clean up the pedophiles and pederasty priests (those liking pubescent boys) that seeped in...during the 50 years.
Bob: Maybe you are right about what the Church thought of me. But you can hardly call their action Christ-like or godly.
"When I was (snip) hungry you did not feed me. (snip)"
"Lord when did we not do any of these things"
"About 20 years ago, apparently"
I donate to two catholic charities, one being a food bank, because I know they don't discriminate and that the nuns won't walk off with the best donations. I wonder what happened that you didn't get served. Not in any way saying it was because of you that you didn't. I just wonder what the deal was.
What you wrote is the egocentric judgmental thinking the church supposedly is suppose to inspire people to drop from their consciousness. If the priest thought and acted on what you wrote, he has no business being a priest.
The priest didn't want to divert any funding from his pet project -- that being the commission of a Christian elementary school on church grounds. So he gutted a lot of church charity in order to stroke his own ego.
Butterflymage, you know nothing about the Catholic Church...
Contraceptives like the "pill" are abortificents...sloughing off fertilized eggs. Look it up...Also the IUD...does damaged to the fertilized egg. Not to mention ru486 morning after pill.
He never said Gays are Satanic...
The Catholic Church values women...Look at this website. It lists women who are Doctors of the Church (who help define Catholic Doctrine).
thedoctorsofthecatholicchurch.com
The highest woman creature ever born was Mary---the new ark of the Covenant...The covenant being Jesus.
If you hate the Church, you hate Jesus...because He founded the church...
He said..."Simon, I change your name to Peter (ROCK). On this Rock, I will build MY church...and the Gates of hell will not prevail against it. Everything that you declare on earth shall be bound in heaven." I paraphrase...look it up.
Matt 16:13-20
Then your god is a mass murderer since one in four pregnancies self-terminate in the first week or so.
Crimson -- Don't let ignorance upset you. These people feed on the Pablum fed to them by the liberal press and cannot think for themselves. Nor will they study what the demonize.
And I'm agnostic.
Actually, Fox News viewers are less informed than people who watch no news at all.
so you're saying then that you are an avid viewer of Fox News?
You watch liberal media
yet you know nothing of how Western Civilization developed...
It developed around
the Catholic and Christian Churches for the last 2000 years.
I tend to take all American news with a grain of salt.
Crimson,
Condoms prevent sperm and egg from ever meeting. No harm to fetuses there.
Are you about to use the Monty Python defense?
Since when does MSNBCommie care so much about a pope? There is some REAL and important news out there.
But it does not paint Obama in a positive light.
The Germans starting going to concerts and plays near the end. Even with the bombing. They literally could not accept reality. MSNBC is like a magician. "Look here not there"
Just admit that the Church picked another status-quo Pope.
What's a status quo pope?
If you mean "follow the teaching's of Jesus Christ"
Then, yes, he may be a sqp.
Jesus never had a word to say about gays or birth control. He had a lot to say about hoarding wealth.
Okay....if you want the CC to divest itself of wealth..... tell all churches/televangelists to do the same... and while we're at it...have all royal families sell their crown jewels.... and all national capitols should sell off their real estate.... The Vatican is not only where the Pope lives...it is a seperate City-State....an independent country...
...have all royal families sell their crown jewels.... and all national capitols should sell off their real estate...
The thing is the royal family & national capitols are not preaching about sin while commiting equally egregious sins themselves like the church. The church needs to practice what it preaches.
People don't get it...it's not up to the Pope to allow women to be priests, or to be pro death, or pro gay "marriage". The church has not changed it's position on these issues since it began, and it will never change! Get over it!!
Sure it has. Priests used to be able to get married. Read some history.
My comment does not say that priests never were able to marry...read my comment!
It is none of your business if someone wants to live a celibate life...
But the Church forces celibacy upon the priesthood, so your argument doesn't wash.
It absolutely is forced. If the church doesn't rethink the celebacy requirement they are going to find themselves with a greater priest shortage than they already have now.
Straight men are not willing to abstain, especially when so many other religious denominations allow marriage for priest/pastors. The gay priests will also decrease since, in today's more accepting society, they don't have to " hide behind the collar" anymore. This will leave you with nothing but the pedophile priests. Not a good situation.
It forces no one... it simply states that if you want to be a priest/nun...you have to be celibate.... no one is forced to join a religious order...
Lisa,
we are not implying that a person is forced to become a priest, just that preists are forced to be celebate. Yes, that is their right, but it will come at a cost. While the numbers claim 1.2 billion catholics that doesn't take into account how many of those are still practicing Catholics. The fact is Catholic churches & schools are closing at an alarming rate due to lack of attendance.
The church claims they are just following the laws of the bible, but there are so many sins/guidlelines they overook, while others they strictly enforce, with no rhyme or reason.
The Catholic Church uses the only true Christian Bible. Most Protestants use a VERSION of the Bible (Version meaning changed and different than the original) King James Version. So you cannot have any real truth or intrepretation that could possibly be correct, yet they still attack the Church from their fortress of centuries of hatred and open persecution. They hate the Pope yet individual Prostestants crown thenselves Pope and form thier own churches with no one above them to supervise or oversee. They call for the selling of all gold and precious things, yet IF you truly love GOD, if you were building a house for HIM, why wouldn't you do the best you could? To build a plain and simple church is to keep the money for yourself. Jesus saud there will always be the poor... Live the Faith instead of Pridefully claiming to have "saved" so many souls while living a life of hatred and bigotry. Athiests who claim to not believe HWY do you spend so much time fighting the concept of GOD? Funny, you spend more time talking and thinking about GOD than many believers. Which helps prove that you do believe and GOD exists. WHY not focus on justmaking YOURSRLF a bette rperson and let everyone believe what they wish. Why be a bully and so hateful?
Actually until it was revealed how many pedofiles there were in the Church, I couldnt have cared less what they believed. However, once it was known they were molesting children, and systematically covering it up, then there was reason to be hateful towards the Church.
There is no such thing as a "true" Bible. It is a Hodge Podge of contradictions and massive edits.
There's 2 creation stories in genesis, for example.
Don't tell me there aren't. In one Adam was created first and all the others created after to be his companion, but none were suitable, so god made adam sleep and made eve from one of his ribs. In the other all the animals and plants were created first, then man was created and given dominion over the rest.
Amazing how they fight over who does it righter. ONLY catholics use the right bible. The catholic church is the whore of babylon. No wonder people are fleeing.
I'm not a religious person, but I wish the New Pope the best of luck at fixing the issues with the RCC.
Thanks Roadkill - yours is the first comment that didn't give me a headache. I wish him luck as well.
maybe he can prevent the church from spending ten million dollars of the churchs money to settle sex abuse cases caused by some of the queers in the church
"Homino bisco, shredded wheat. All you @!$%#ing dagos get on your knees!" Maybe "Pope Francis" can clean up this pedophile enclave, hypocritical, corrupt, dysfunctional, very greedy rich religion...I hope so. "Catholics
The Church has been around for 2000 years...It will get back on track...
The sex abuse scandal only happened in the past 50 years.
OMG you cant be serious ?
When was it on track ? when it put people in jail for saying the Earth went around the Sun ?, when it searched for the truth during the Inquisition ? when it denyed Jews were being slaughtered in WWII ?
What makes you think that "celebate" Priests just recently started molesting children in the last 50 years ? did they just recently learn about sex ?
BillKamps,
The pederasty/pedophilia abuse scandal is a recent horrible phenomenon---last 50 years.
Millions of Catholics were killed during the Hilter regime...
The pope hid many Jews in the Vatican...
The pope sent notice to German Catholics about Hitler.
The Church may have sent people to jail for the Sun issue...
The Church is full of fallible human beings who did silly and bad things...
THE CHURCH WOULD SINK BE IT NOT FOR ITS DIVINE ORIGIN---JESUS CHRIST...
The whole human race is a bit stupid at times...
Matt: 16:13-20
The only thing infallible about the Church is the bible
assembled by the Catholic Church...
and the POPE'S CLARIFICATION OF MORAL AND ETHICAL TEACHINGS...Written in Encyclicals...
Look it up.
Butterfly Mage,
I am sorry that a Church representative was ungenerous...That was wrong. No excuses...
Good news is that Pope Francis does not read NBC and pretty much knows how to prioritize his new job...as usual NBC is trying hard but comes up short
So, FOX has an "analysis" job for the retired pope. He can "buddy up" with some other nutz!
Regarding one of the points listed in the article -- The pope can be a voice for religious toleration, but nothing will stop the persecution of Christians in Muslim theocracies. Persecution of other faiths is an inherent factor in Islam.
Perhaps you should educate yourself about the Crusades and the Inquisition before you go casting any stones at Islam.
Yes their are issues with the crusades and the inquistion, but Islam is not without its issues either, sharia law is cruel, there are cruel laws in the old testement, but we do not stone adulterers anymore, not to mention the persecution of christians (people of the book), and other faiths going on in some islamic countries. During Saladin's life he allowed other faiths to practice their religion..etc..seems that is no longer the norm.
All you have to do is read the news, blaspemy laws in pakistan, and some other islamic countries, and some of these were outright lies, because some muslim had a grudge against a christian, etc..a death sentence hanging over people of other faiths..burning of churches in some islamic countries, christians leaving their homes, even the copts of Egypt are in the cross-hairs...very rarely have I seen any islamic leaders speak out against it, or they are too afraid, have not seen any islamic religious leaders, standing in front of any crowds attempting to burn down some infidels home , or place of worship.
William is rather ignorant about the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition (there were others, as well) and just about everything else. He is very hate filled. I wonder what happened to him to make him so.
Persecution of other faiths is an inherent factor in christianity as well. Maybe this pope should do more to address how christians are persecuting people of other faiths (that is reduce the persecution, not giving tips) before complaining about islam.