Agree Ivan,

Anyone who does not look at the church as anything more than the mechanism for paupers to be kings is deluding themselves.

This is about power and coincidentally, so is rape. These men are after power and no amount of deluded apologist fallacious logic is going to change that fact.

Dissolution of this European "caliphate" would be a massive step in the right direction for mankind.

EXACTLY spot on! The craplics have walked around the 800# gorilla in the front room ever since the beginning of time. The is one of the most fear based doctrines ever layed out to the human race. I really don't give a crap about who is the poop or wheter his red shoes are too tight..............you are no longer in Kansas, Dorothy! Much ado about not a damn thing that is important..........they will continue to cover up all the pedophiles in their midst..............the mia culpa boys are full of BS!!

Yes, unfortunately, as a sovereign 'nation', the Vatican does not have a 'freedom of information act' on the books. They have secretly raped, plundered and lied to their subjects for hundreds of years. It was common when 'converting' the native Americans to catholicism to pour molten lead in their ears to get them to 'repent'.

backtobasics-1076842:

And look what those "native" Americans did to white women:

http://classconnection.s3.amazonaws.com/382/flashcards/1896382/jpg/vanderlyn_death_of_jane_mccrea1348094052259.jpg

I do wish that all of these opinionated people would stay out of the the business of the Catholic Church. It is for CATHOLICS. It is the church founded by Jesus Christ, all other churches are either protestant or Jewish. The Orthodox Church has pedophiles and gay priests but the news doesn't report them, they're not important. We had a mega-church Pastor running around the city flashing people, did anyone care, no, not important. The Catholic Church is.

The Catholic Church has brought Chrstianity to the world. If you are protestant, your church would not exist without the Catholic Church setting the example ans spreading the word to EVERY continent.. I think the conclave and the election of Pope Francis I is the business of Catholics, so please stay out of it. It is not your business. And atheists, no one really cares what you think. It must have been scary for you to see Michaelangelo's "Judgment Day" in the Sistine Chapel. You're the folks at the bottom. God bless you all.

I'll stay the hell out of your business if the RCC stays the hell out of my government! GET IT?

The Mormon Church is just as terrible. Look how the Mormon church has a stranglehold on Utah's state government. Look how much campaign money Mormons gave to Romney, basically to further the mormon agenda. Watch the movie '8: The Mormon Proposition' for an incite of what the mormons are about. You think the catholic church is bad? Look at the cancerous religion is growing in your own country.

The catholics keep saying over and over, pray for the ex pope........What the hell, if he was so damned infallable, why would he need prayers?....Pray for the sick, the poor, those in distress....pray for the guy who has everything......?????

catholic Pope is against birth control...well duh.....more barefoot and pregnant woemen creating more little catholics to give more money to the church....all about the numbers$$$$$$$$$$$

My Catholic friend.. It is my business! Why? I'll bet I was the best Catholic anyone could be and was ( a convert) in the Catholic Church longer than most of you have lived.We were in 60 yrs.. 2001..When we left the rcc because we had seen it all and heard it all but were so brainwashed to believe it all. W e couldn't even budge before that. . But there is a time in your life when GOD gives you the realazation and the knowledge that things are not as you think they are or are as they should be and are worse than you could ever imagine.

HE set us free from the demons in the rcc when we left. .No amount of good done by people in the rcc can take away the Spiritual Murder of these handicapped , marginalized and just plain kids. They're dead for life spiritually, with the GOD they knew & trusted, when these people sexually abused them and those who knew did nothing but transfer them to another place, to do the same thing all over , again & again all over the Catholic world. They are every where. People are crying and now screaming for somthing to done.

In 2001 , when the "you know what, hit the fan" in San Diego, we knew every thing that our relatives, (who had been in religious orders) had told us were so true but even worse.They died way too young of broken hearts. I'm sure , had we believed them and did something way back then , they would still be alive today. Maybe there would be less young people suffering today from being raped by a person of reigious authority(who claims to be Chistos to al lthei people on earth.)

But brainwashed as we were, we were still defending the rcc as you are. You will become of victim of theirs, if you don't do some" big time research" into the evils being coverd up. My prayer is that this man called Francis will find out too and do some "big time" research and then sweep th rcc clean of all of them, that have aided and abetted in these CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY! Don't be afraid GOD is with you as HE is with us.

Gee, Cherokee, I am truly impressed that you are seemingly proud of yourself for writing such an incredibly ignorant comment.

Hmmm, regarding the comment about staying out of the business of the Catholic Church. Seriously!?!?! I have had this Pope business stuffed down my throat for weeks now on every major and minor news outlet. I can't get a rush hour traffic report in the morning without hearing about the Pope's new shoes. So, that's sort of a low blow to all us opinioinated folks, do ya think? So we will keep our opinions to ourselves when the media quits focusing on it so much.

Kit Doll Shemas

I do wish that all of these opinionated people would stay out of the the business of the Catholic Church. It is for CATHOLICS. It is the church founded by Jesus Christ, all other churches are either protestant or Jewish. The Orthodox Church has pedophiles and gay priests but the news doesn't report them, they're not important. We had a mega-church Pastor running around the city flashing people, did anyone care, no, not important. The Catholic Church is.

Here's a question for you. You ever hear anyone openly bitching about the amish? No? Why do you think that is?

The catholic church was not founded by jesus. I challenge you, without the bible, to prove that jesus was actually ever a real person.

This church impacts all of us. They intervene in education, science, medical advancements, and government. Nothing worse than seeing a priest standing next to the leader of your country. The one country, the only country on the planet that specifically invokes a secular constitution.

Our forefathers are rolling in their graves:

In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Horatio G. Spafford, March 17, 1814

If the catholic church were like the amish, I doubt you would hear much of anything said about them.

That said, they are nothing like the amish.

The Catholic Church has brought Chrstianity to the world. If you are protestant, your church would not exist without the Catholic Church setting the example ans spreading the word to EVERY continent.. I think the conclave and the election of Pope Francis I is the business of Catholics, so please stay out of it. It is not your business. And atheists, no one really cares what you think. It must have been scary for you to see Michaelangelo's "Judgment Day" in the Sistine Chapel. You're the folks at the bottom. God bless you all.

Do you know what age of man started when the church came to be? They were called the dark ages.

Do you know how they spread the word across every continent? I'll give you a hint: It involved devices called the Judas Cradle or lead sprinkler. Go look up those devices used to spread gods love.

As far as us atheists. Feel free to ignore us, but be assured, we are no longer ignoring you.

I wish the Catholic Church would understand it is not their Church and the sooner they understand that it is Christs Church be better off they will be. After all God is His father and the Church is his and we will be judged by our actions and in-actions. Many that say they have worked for the Church will be condemned.

I do wish that all of these opinionated people would stay out of the the business of the Catholic Church. It is for CATHOLICS

If the Catholic church was just for Catholics -- I'd agree with you. But guess what? Ever since its inception, the Catholic church has tried to run and convert the world ... whether the world wanted it to or not!

A few examples: Crusades, burning of "heritics", forced conversion of Jews, forced conversion of Native peoples from all over the world, and continuing today by embedding itself in the politics of almost every country in the world.

So yes ... it is OUR business.

And atheists, no one really cares what you think.

You seem too, as you ranted enough about it.

Yes NBC. That is all they have to talk about. Scandals. It'll probably take 80% of their time together. Nothing else could possibly be more important.

Oh I know Kit Doll Shemas, isn't it terribly inconvenient that people in a free society can have OPINIONS about things? Sometimes even contrary opinions about things that YOU care very deeply about? Everyone, please stop opining on the topical matter of the Pope's election, you're making Kit angry.

How very Christian of you to diss the atheists as well! You sure showed them. I'm sure they're ruined now, told off by a person who follows the teachings of Christ, but doesn't put them into practice.

NEW POPE TELLS EX-POPE, "WTF, BENNY, WE'VE GOT MORE SCANDALS THAN WE HAVE BELIEVERS?!?"

One of the most controversial aspects of Argentina’s last military dictatorship was
the role of the Catholic Church, who for over three decades has remained
largely silent over the issues of murder, kidnapping, and the selling of children.

Official statements regarding the clergy’s involvement in the military’s Proceso de Reorganización Nacional
(known simply as el Proceso), which killed up to 30,000 people
between 1976 and 1983, has been limited to apologising for ‘not doing enough to stop the
repression’.

Their silence was recently shattered, however, when the Conferencia
Episcopal Argentina (Argentine Episcopal Conference – hereafter
Episcopate-a conference of Catholic bishops) officially recognised the authenticity of a document from 1978, detailing a meeting between members of its Executive Committee and Jorge Videla, the then de facto president of the Argentine military junta.

The report, which was written and sent to the Vatican following the meeting, was
‘surreptitiously obtained’ and published in Página/12 by the
revered investigative journalist Horacio Verbitsky. The formal recognition (again reported by Verbitsky) of the document came about when Judge Mariana Forns, who is overseeing the open
court hearing charged with establishing the whereabouts of the remains of Roberto Santucho, requested a copy of the minutes from the Episcopate. The Vatican refuses to acknowlege it's copy.

Its authentication confirms that at the time, the Episcopate of bishops, as well as the Holy
See, was fully aware of the systematic assassination of those detained by the
military. But further than this, and perhaps more disturbingly, it provides
evidence that the Church’s highest authorities were actively collaborating with
the dictatorship in covering up information as to the whereabouts of the
detained-disappeared at a time when families were turning to the Church for
help.

Given the pact of silence that has surrounded this facet of the Proceso, this
is nothing short of a historical admission.

This revelation comes only four months after Videla confessed to his collaboration
with the Church hierarchy in an interview for the Spanish magazine Cambio 16, in which he described their relationship as ‘excellent, very cordial, sincere, and open’. Indeed, the
report shows just how close the relationship was.

The document summarises the discussion between Videla, Cardinal Raúl Primatesta, Archbishop
of Córdoba; Vincente Zazpe, Archbishop of Santa Fe; and Cardinal Juan Aramburu, Archbishop of Buenos Aires, the President and Vice Presidents of the Episcopate, respectively.

The meeting concerned how best to handle the demands for information by the
families of the disappeared. Videla believed that it would be difficult to
admit they were dead because it would lead to further questions: ‘Are they in
mass graves? If so, who put them there? It’s a series of questions that the
government cannot answer truthfully because of the consequences it would have
on people’, he comments. As Verbitsky points out, the people he refers to are
the kidnappers and murderers that were obeying orders, who Primatesta agreed
should be protected.

For his part, Aramburu explains that ‘the problem is how to answer people so they
don’t keep arguing about it’. He suggests to Videla, ‘at least tell the
[families] [the authorities] aren’t in a position to give any information – say
that they are disappeared’, a suggestion the dictator seems to have heeded, as
seen in a press conference Videla made the following year
when he declared ‘Es un desaparecido. No tiene identidad. No está. Ni
muerto, ni vivo. Está desaparecido‘.

To an extent, this revelation merely confirms the numerous accusations that have
been made against the Church over the past three decades, accusations to which
it has never responded. An extensive body of work by scholars (such as Emilio Mignone) as well as investigative journalists has developed linking the Church to the junta’s crimes.

Horacio Verbitsky has been at the forefront of uncovering the crimes of the
dictatorship (see, for example, El Vuelo). His 2005 book El Silencio
provides a damning insight into the complicity of senior figures with the
Catholic Church (a translated extract of which can be read here).

Court trials have also been instrumental in exposing the Church’s crimes. In 2007,
former Catholic priest Cristian Von Wernich was sentenced to life imprisonment for his
involvement in the torture and murder of the military’s prisoners. Indeed, this
episode further displays the vital role judicial proceedings play in uncovering
the crimes committed under the dictatorship; had Judge Forns not requested a
copy of the document, it is nigh on impossible to imagine its authentication by
the Episcopate by other means.

Nevertheless, the document exposes for the first time the degree to which senior figures
within the clergy were active in helping the junta cover up information
concerning the fate of those it had disappeared.

The revelation also serves to reveal the extent of the pact of silence surrounding
the Church’s role during the time. As can be seen on the document first
published by Verbitsky (above), in the top right-hand corner there is the
number under which it is archived (10949), which gives an idea of the magnitude
of the Church’s archive, who denies its existence. As is visible on the copy
released by the Church (below), the number has been removed, suggesting an
effort to cover up the sizable number of documents in its possession.

Despite the significance of the admission, neither the Argentine Church nor the Vatican
has commented. Further still, the pact of silence is being maintained by the
majority of the media: neither Clarín nor La Nación, Argentina’s
two most widely-read newspapers, reported the story.

After nearly three decades since the fall of the
dictatorship, the painstaking process of uncovering the truth continues.
Unfortunately, for the time being it appears to still be an uphill battle.
Nevertheless, thanks to the important work done by figures such as Verbitsky,
truth and justice can slowly be achieved.

I was brought up Catholic and I just do not understand the ignorance of some Catholics regarding the child abuse and the financial empire they have built. Most of this money raised by working class people who through guilt donate their hard earned money for what they are told is going to the sick and the poor. Well guess what? We still have sick and poor people,however the empire keeps increasing. Wake up

Sorry KIT, not going anywhere. When your church can learn to stay out of other peoples affairs then maybe you will get your wish. Until then you can keep praying for it fruitlessly. By the way, Atheists don't get scared about make believe things. Seeing Judgment Day doesn't affect Atheists because they don't believe in it. But you don't get that concept which is why you are an idiot.

How has the Catholic Church affected you LedZepp?

Hey Losghost

Here's a
question for you. You ever hear anyone openly bitching about the amish? No? Why
do you think that is?

I have heard
people bitch about the Amish, the Jewish, Muslims, Hindus, AC (Apostolic
Christians), Mennonites, Baptist, Jehovah's Witness, and all of the off shoots
and let us not forget the Catholics. In my life, I have met a Methodist
Minister who was caught in bed - the bed he shared with his wife at the time -
by his 15-year-old son while committing a sex act with another man - I have
also had the pleasure of meeting an Episcopalian Bishop that was arrested for
child pornography. Nobody is perfect, Somebody has already done it, and
Everybody has an opinion. Technology allows people to show their evil side (the
bully) so go for it. Remember all whenever someone begins a sentence with I am
a Christian - you need to check your wallet because they are going to try to
find a why to empty it no matter what their religion or lack of religion it is
not a good idea to trust an atheist either.

Battle of the Popes, what can we call it? We need a catchy name to keep people's interest...

"Franky vs. Benny"

"Papal Pommeling"

"Pope Grope"

"Grapple in the Sistine Chapel"

"The standoff-o at Castle Gondolfo"

"The Grayed Crusade"

Starsailing @ 1.8: "The catholics keep saying over and over, pray for the ex pope........What the hell, if he was so damned infallable, why would he need prayers?"

Exactly, you have no idea what the Pope is or isn't. He is NOT infallible unless he speaks from the "Chair of Peter", which has only been done only a few times in the history of the church concerning Church doctrine. The Pope is Jesus's representative on earth. He is fully human and is a sinner and needs prayer as all of us do. Since none of this concerns you, please refrain from comment on a subject you have absolutely no knowledge. It just encourages the rest of the "we hate catholics, because... well we just hate them" crowd.

Mermaid, ah yes the old "I was brought up Catholic" stick. Did you ever listen to the homilies? Did you go to the parish teaching opportunities? Did you participate in any of the ministries? From your comment I guess the answer to all of these is NO. Your knowledge of the church is zero. Please point to where the "empire" is building? Please do a little research and find out how many poor are feed, clothed, cared for, and prayed for every single day by catholics.

Hey Kit I will be opinionated since My religion was before yours.....See how dumb that is....

The Cat-Lickers be damned for taking over and making an ALL powerful person in charge of all the poor folk they were supposed to save....instead of creating a large force of slave labor (missionary instilled workers). AND killing all of those that didn't BOW down before them.......How dare any of you force your will over anyone who has an opinion.

Now.....Doesn't that sound wonderfully awesome!!!.......Either way your post is obnoxious and you should re-evaluate where you stand in your Catholicism. Even in today's times you seem to believe that the Catholic Church is not as large as what it really is....Yes if you are that big of a Corporation/Institution as they are then EVERYONE has a say.

Hey Logshost: "I challenge you, without the bible, to prove that jesus was actually ever a real person."

Ever hear of Flavius Josephus?

But the younger Ananus who, as we said, received the high priesthood, was of a bold disposition and exceptionally daring; he followed the party of the Sadducees, who are severe in judgment above all the Jews, as we have already shown. As therefore Ananus was of such a disposition, he thought he had now a good opportunity, as Festus was now dead, and Albinus was still on the road; so he assembled a council of judges, and brought before it the brother of Jesus the so-called Christ, whose name was James, together with some others, and having accused them as lawbreakers, he delivered them over to be stoned.

Jewish Antiquities 20.9.1

Hey Logshost: "I challenge you, without the bible, to prove that jesus was actually ever a real person."

Ever hear of Flavius Josephus?

Are you referring to the Josephus that is considered a forgery by every scholar worth his/her salt? Yeah, that's been debunked for quite a while now.

Hint: Roman scholars do not refer to common criminals as "christus" or anointed one.

I thought you would have come at with Tactitus, another forgery.

Hehe, nice.

It is interesting that a pope that has been described as very authoritarian and "in control" would resign and yet remain in the Vatican while a new pope who (from all descriptions) appears very humble and subservient is named as the new face of the church. Makes you wonder who will really be in charge. And will this Bertone remain as second in command (who was accused of "undermining" the former pope)?

Futureshock,

Nothing about the Vatican is as it seems if history is any guide.

LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!! That's exactly the level of importance all this @!$%# has in the scheme of life.

Are we supposed to be nice and respectful to an organization that protects pedophiles and teaches bigotry and hate?

Are you referring to liberal democrats?

This is what cracks me up...you phony liberal idiots who want everyone to have the benefit of inclusion, then you go and crap all over the Catholic Church...God forbid I say something as dumb as, "Muslims are jihadists" and I'll have the ACLU, Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, etc. all pounding on my door and expecting an apology. These people that you defend have scars as well. STFU just STFU...

or how to kep helping the hungry in Africa, the sick and hospitals, the homeless in India... narrow minded comment...

Thank you but no. I think I'll stay right here and bugger ya'll a little bit more. The precious RCC has done tremendous damage over the centuries and the recent cover up of priestly misconduct is just the tip of the iceberg. No one is perfect but the RCC has put its nose into the business of the world for far too long and people are more than welcome to comment.

My last comment would be this - I hope there is not one starving, needy or hurting person upon whom the shadow of the Vatican opulence dares to fall. If ALL (every single solitary human being) have not been served in the name of Christ they have miserably failed their mission and orders from Christ himself. Feeling human yet?

Lori--by all means. Let the Catholic Church stop putting its nose into the world's business. You do realize, of course, that when you leave a void, something else will most definitely fill it. Are you ready for the alternative? Will you be willing to forego your right to speak out so that you don't have acid thrown in your face? Are you ready to have your daughters ripped out of your care to satisfy the needs of some old f*rt to add to his collection of obedient and subservient wives? Are you ready to give up your right to walk down the street, alone and unmolested, or are you willing to drape a "circus tent" over you and beg for permission to pee? That's if they let you live. Be careful about what you wish for. Those would LOVE to fill the void and would do so in a heartbeat.

As a recovering Catholic it saddens me that the church in this day and age cannot move forward as other religions have. I want to see women priests, I want to see married priests, I want to feel like the church is moving forward. They will keep on seeing dwindling numbers. We had a family member that wanted to give a donation to a priest that was a friend. We couldn't give the money to him directly, it had to go through the society of that order. Needless to say that order had been sued, and that money probably went toward that instead of the deserved priest. As mentioned above....remove ALL priests that have broken the law (which would deplete the priesthood alot), then change the rules....married, women, etc. and they might be surprised. That won't happen in my lifetime, or the next

Pat,

Do you do this at home? Do you use a relative or only go "outside"?

NC-

I have no idea what you are trying to say... please proofread before posting...

You're a g33f!!!!!