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Courtesy IAVA
Former U.S. Marine Sergeant Derek Coy says he still struggles "both mentally and physically, with the toll it took on me and countless others do as well."
Derek Coy hails from Baytown, Texas, and could be a poster child for American veterans of the war in Iraq as they look back and ask: "Was it all worth it?"
A former U.S. Marine sergeant based in the volatile Anbar province at the height of the conflict, Coy is proud of his service and believes the "invaluable tools" he gained as a Marine will ultimately help him succeed in life.
But seven years since he left Iraq, he’s fighting a different battle — against anxiety, depression and emotional numbness — the effects of post-traumatic stress.
March 19, 2008: Speaking on the fifth anniversary of the start of the Iraq war, President George W. Bush said that while the costs had been high, "this is a fight America can, and must win."
"I still struggle, both mentally and physically, with the toll it took on me and countless others do as well," he said.
Tuesday will mark 10 years since the "shock and awe" invasion and more than a year since the last company of U.S. troops left Iraq. But only about 4 in 10 Americans who fought there — according to a Pew Research Center poll — believe the reasons for going to war justified the loss in blood and treasure.
Almost 4,500 U.S. troops were killed and more than 32,000 wounded, including thousands with critical brain and spinal injuries. Estimates of the number of Iraqi civilian fatalities are staggering, ranging from 100,000 to 600,000.
The monetary cost could exceed $3 trillion.
While the war in Iraq has ended, the sacrifice for vets continues back in a civilian world they often find "foreign" and isolating.
Ann Weeby, a native of Boyne City, Michigan, was deployed at the beginning of the war, attached to the 101st Airborne under then-Major General David Petraeus , in the northern Iraqi town of Mosul.
The pain of the burning and the screams of his family are the memories Ali Abbas carries from the Iraq War. Then, as a 12 year old boy injured by the U.S. missile that killed his family, Ali's plight moved the world. Â ITV's Paul Davies reports.Â
"Our goal was to find weapons of mass destruction and Saddam Hussein," she said.
"After WMDs were not found and Saddam was captured, I didn’t expect [such a] prolonged U.S. military presence in Iraq," she added.
As the only person her family and friends know who fought in the war, Weeby tries to educate them about the scourges of depression and suicide that U.S. vets face after Iraq.
"American troops are suffering, and in some cases dying, because a Veterans Affairs' claims backlog is preventing them from getting [mental] health care. Twenty-two U.S. veterans commit suicide every day!" Weeby said, citing a troubling statistic recently published by the Department of Veterans Affairs.
Courtesy IAVA
Ann Weeby, who was attached to the 101st Airborne, went in to look for WMDs and Saddam Hussein. "I didn't expect [such a] prolonged U.S. military presence in Iraq," she said.
'The cost was high'
When Leon Panetta, then secretary of defense, addressed U.S. troops in Baghdad before they pulled out of Iraq, he argued that their core mission had been accomplished.
"To be sure, the cost was high," he said. "But those lives were not lost in vain. They gave birth to an independent, free, and sovereign Iraq."
Today, however, Iraq’s Shiite Prime Minister, Nouri al-Maliki, heads what looks more like an authoritarian regime, propped up by a coercive secret service.
Toby Dodge, an analyst at U.K.-based think tank Chatham House, claimed Iraq had morphed into a pro-Iran police state, where Sunni gunmen and al Qaeda’s suicide bombers seem to strike at will, killing hundreds each week.
His conclusion: 10 years after regime change in Iraq, little has changed.
"The lives of ordinary Iraqis, in terms of the relationship to their state and their economy, are comparable to the situation they faced in the country before regime change," he said in a report written for Chatham House.
Many Iraq War veterans admit they were fighting more for their battle buddies than for any "island of democracy" in the Arab world.
Courtesy IAVA
Robert Contreras, who had two tours of duty in Iraq, returned to California to finish a college degree, where he has struggled to relate to other students. "The most common question I get … is if I've ever killed someone," he said.
Robert Contreras, from Sylmar, California, left the military after 10 years in the Navy, including two tours of duty in Iraq, and returned to California to finish a college degree.
"Personally, I was not there fighting for Iraq," he said when asked if the war was won or lost.
"I was there to protect those who served alongside me to the best of my abilities," he said.
He’s struggled to relate to his student peers who know little about the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
"The most common question I get … is if I’ve ever killed someone," he said.
Contreras also developed symptoms of PTSD. "I was anxious in crowded places and unable to feel at ease anywhere but at home."
Veterans like Weeby and Coy have found a therapeutic way to generate positives from their Iraq War experiences — and better deal with some of the nagging uncertainties about Iraq’s future: They’ve reached out to their fellow vets.
Weeby is an outspoken advocate for San Francisco Bay Area veterans, while Coy is an associate at the Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America, or IAVA, the first and largest non-profit group representing U.S. vets from those wars.
Both are currently in Washington, D.C., part of the "Storm the Hill" offensive, pressuring Congress to address key veterans’ issues, like 9.4 percent unemployment and a bottle-necked health-care program.
NBC News' Kerry Sanders and Mike Taibbi, along with Kimberly Dozier of the Associated Press, reflect on their experiences on the ground in Iraq 10 years ago.
"Coming home with a renewed appreciation for my life and freedoms, I’ve committed my career to helping others," reflected Weeby.
U.S. military commanders would argue that the war in Iraq brought important changes there: Iraqis are better off without Saddam Hussein and have at least gained a fledgling democracy and national elections.
But 10 years since “shock and awe” was supposed to clear the path for a liberated Iraq and a "forward strategy of freedom" that would sweep across the Middle East, Iraqis are instead falling victim to wave upon wave of sectarian violence.
And many of their American "liberators" are fighting for their own survival — back home.
Jim Maceda has covered Iraq since the 1980s.
Related:
Concern grows about military suicides spreading within families
The enemy within: Soldier suicides outpaced combat deaths in 2012
Full Iraq coverage from NBC News
Leave a Comment:
Im a combat vetran-I have killed pepole.I am never asked that question . This war is not bushes war now.Obama wanted to expand ---remember -our presence in Afganistan and then into Pakistan ---were the drones are on thier seek and kill missions now---were is the outrage from the liberals..A secret for you libs-WE CONSERVATIVES like it when we are at war and you keep the war pigs in check .Were did you go.Its time to let OBAMA have what ya gave bush and get these kids home........!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!period amen
I learned that there are two Americas. One for the powerful and one for the rest. The powerful can commit any crime and walk free, like Bush, Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld, Abrams, Perle, Wolfowitz and many many others.
Americans are too lazy and too delusional to participate in a democracy. When Bush was committing crimes the liberals howled, now that Obama is doing it they vote for it.
J.P.
And the same holds true for obama... he is not the Savior the left trys to make him... He is just as if not more crooked then the rest... At least with the others you could see what they were doing... obama hides everything he does and then when caught blames others.
Least you forget, his 33,000 'surge' in Afgan and now we are fighting in 35 different countries and the fact that he goes to war against Libya WITHOUT congressional approval or even Knowledge.
Do you hold Pope Benedict for moving child molesting priest around to other places for protection from the law when they did that in the from the 80's to 2012? Now that he is retired, do you forget he did that and now blame Pope Francis because he is now the sitting Pope? I think you would still hold Pope Benedict responsible for that.
Afghanistan and Iraq will ALWAYS be Bushs wars throughout history. Outrage from the LIBS is a lot less for using DRONES to kill the enemy than losing our troops to the enemy.
My tuition assistance that I EARNED has been stolen from me and given to illegal immigrants who do nothing but suck every resource out of what I fought for.
Democrats are the cause of the problem in this country and have been a problem since the 1960s. I swore an oath to defend my country, my flag, and the Constitution...not money-grubbing, Democratic Party criminals.
wall jasper1, please start typing in Microsoft Word so you see first hand your terrible spelling and grammar. That is all. Thanks.
jp120741
Your loss was the result of the sequester which more republicans voted for it than democrats voted for it. Remember Boner saying we got most of what we wanted?
Allowing Mexico (America's enemy since 1836) to sucker the US into removing troops from the US-Mexico border to fight in the middle east proves that the US government needs to be led by generals instead of political buffoons.
Rob you are such the teacher. word out
Who came up with this STUPID NOTION that only Republicans fight wars???? Dickhead Cheney got FIVE DEFERMENTS. Bush II stayed on U.S. soil and drank beer. Dick Cheney can't even shoot a shotgun without hitting his friend in the face. The last two Bush Presidents started the last three wars... PERIOD. Obama is responsible for getting Bin Laden when Bush said ON CAMERA that he wasn't even thinking about getting him. We're out of Iraq and getting out of Afghanistan. What a bunch of FUX News kool-aid drinkers.
BTW - Mitt Romney is still ahead in the polls according to Karl Rove. Maybe $arah Palin will run again in 2016. SNL could use the material.
Do search on "Bush Lies nation into Iraq war."
From www.alternet.org June 26 2003.
LIE #1: "The evidence indicates that Iraq is reconstituting its nuclear weapons program ... Iraq has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes and other equipment needed for gas centrifuges, which are used to enrich uranium for nuclear weapons." -- President Bush, Oct. 7, 2002, in Cincinnati.
FACT: This story, leaked to and breathlessly reported by Judith Miller in the New York Times, has turned out to be complete baloney. Department of Energy officials, who monitor nuclear plants, say the tubes could not be used for enriching uranium. One intelligence analyst, who was part of the tubes investigation, angrily told The New Republic: "You had senior American officials like Condoleezza Rice saying the only use of this aluminum really is uranium centrifuges. She said that on television. And that's just a lie."
LIE #2: "The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa." -- President Bush, Jan.28, 2003, in the State of the Union address.
FACT: This whopper was based on a document that the White House already knew to be a forgery thanks to the CIA. Sold to Italian intelligence by some hustler, the document carried the signature of an official who had been out of office for 10 years and referenced a constitution that was no longer in effect. The ex-ambassador who the CIA sent to check out the story is pissed: "They knew the Niger story was a flat-out lie," he told the New Republic, anonymously. "They [the White House] were unpersuasive about aluminum tubes and added this to make their case more strongly."
LIE #3: "We believe [Saddam] has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons." -- Vice President Cheney on March 16, 2003 on "Meet the Press."
FACT: There was and is absolutely zero basis for this statement. CIA reports up through 2002 showed no evidence of an Iraqi nuclear weapons program.
LIE #4: "[The CIA possesses] solid reporting of senior-level contacts between Iraq and al-Qaeda going back a decade." -- CIA Director George Tenet in a written statement released Oct. 7, 2002 and echoed in that evening's speech by President Bush.
FACT: Intelligence agencies knew of tentative contacts between Saddam and al-Qaeda in the early '90s, but found no proof of a continuing relationship. In other words, by tweaking language, Tenet and Bush spun the intelligence180 degrees to say exactly the opposite of what it suggested.
LIE #5: "We've learned that Iraq has trained al-Qaeda members in bomb-making and poisons and deadly gases ... Alliance with terrorists could allow the Iraqi regime to attack America without leaving any fingerprints." -- President Bush, Oct. 7 .
FACT: No evidence of this has ever been leaked or produced. Colin Powell told the U.N. this alleged training took place in a camp in northern Iraq. To his great embarrassment, the area he indicated was later revealed to be outside Iraq's control and patrolled by Allied war planes.
LIE #6: "We have also discovered through intelligence that Iraq has a growing fleet of manned and unmanned aerial vehicles that could be used to disperse chemical or biological weapons across broad areas. We are concerned that Iraq is exploring ways of using these UAVs [unmanned aerial vehicles] for missions targeting the United States." -- President Bush, Oct. 7.
FACT: Said drones can't fly more than 300 miles, and Iraq is 6,000 miles from the U.S. coastline. Furthermore, Iraq's drone-building program wasn't much more advanced than your average model plane enthusiast. And isn't a "manned aerial vehicle" just a scary way to say "plane"?
LIE #7: "We have seen intelligence over many months that they have chemical and biological weapons, and that they have dispersed them and that they're weaponized and that, in one case at least, the command and control arrangements have been established." -- President Bush, Feb. 8, 2003, in a national radio address.
FACT: Despite a massive nationwide search by U.S. and British forces, there are no signs, traces or examples of chemical weapons being deployed in the field, or anywhere else during the war.
LIE #8: "Our conservative estimate is that Iraq today has a stockpile of between 100 and 500 tons of chemical weapons agent. That is enough to fill 16,000 battlefield rockets." -- Secretary of State Colin Powell, Feb. 5 2003, in remarks to the UN Security Council.
FACT: Putting aside the glaring fact that not one drop of this massive stockpile has been found, as previously reported on AlterNet the United States' own intelligence reports show that these stocks -- if they existed -- were well past their use-by date and therefore useless as weapon fodder.
LIE #9: "We know where [Iraq's WMD] are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south, and north somewhat." -- Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, March 30, 2003, in statements to the press.
FACT: Needless to say, no such weapons were found, not to the east, west, south or north, somewhat or otherwise.
LIE #10: "Yes, we found a biological laboratory in Iraq which the UN prohibited." -- President Bush in remarks in Poland, published internationally June 1, 2003.
FACT: This was reference to the discovery of two modified truck trailers that the CIA claimed were potential mobile biological weapons lab. But British and American experts -- including the State Department's intelligence wing in a report released this week -- have since declared this to be untrue. According to the British, and much to Prime Minister Tony Blair's embarrassment, the trailers are actually exactly what Iraq said they were; facilities to fill weather balloons, sold to them by the British themselves.
Here is a link to a website for Vets. If you had a friend who served and died, there is a section on the site where you can add info/pictures etc, on the person so they will not be forgotten. Doesn't matter if the war was just or not, they need to be remembered.
http://www.vetfriends.com/search.cfm
Simple answer: NO. For America.
No for America's military.
Yes for defence contractors.
Yes for reconstruction contractors (these were pre-approved Republicans only. 86 indictments pending).
walljasper1
Thank you for serving your country, but the IRAQI war is ALWAYS Bushes war. He took us there, he took us into debt for it, and he had NO PLAN to finish it before he left office. The legacy he left us will take decades to resolve and then some. He is responsible for the 5K americans that were killed and the 100K iraqis.
P.S. We Dems exist so that you conservative war PROFITEERS cannot bank $$ on the deaths of innocent people around the world. Although, Cheney sure MADE A BUNDLE off BUSHES 'mistakes".
Was it worth it? None of it is. As you all sit here and argue over what idiotic President sent who to where to fight over what ever.
Last Monday a helicopter went down in Kandahar killing all 5 members on board. One of those soldiers was Zack Shannon. A family friend who we've known since he was around 10. Zack was 21 years old and had been sent just before Christmas. He was a mechanic and had just received a promotion to fly on board. It was his third flight and his last.
Who sent him there? Obama sent him there! Now, do you think for one minute I give a rats ass who sent him? That fact is we lost a loved one. A great kid who was like a big brother to my children. Do you think his mother, dad, 3 brothers, care who sent him, or for what reason?
Nope, sorry, to me it wasn't worth it. It never will be for the friends and families left grieving over their lost loved ones.
Only someone who has fought there is qualified to answer that question. Really. But it doesn't take an Einstein to see that as things sit now, Iraq is little more than a C4 tinder box waiting to explode. So was it worth it? Hmmmmmmmm.
Thank you so much for your service. You did your utmost best. NONE of this is nor ever was your fault.
staresailing
Granted we did not find WMD. FACT!!! We know Saddam had them...just ask the Kurds in the North and why did Saddam's cousin have the nickname "Chemical Ali". I doubt it was because as a kid he had a chemistry set. There is speculation that the WMD in Syria are from Iraq. I havent heard any confirmation or denial from our administration on where these came from.
One thing I am convinced of is that a democracy will never work in a Muslim country that allows all decisions to be based on religion. You cant have a democracy and a theocracy at the same time. Because all decisions are based on their religious beliefs and Sunni's, Shiites, Kurds, etc dont agree with each other there will always be conflict between them.
We just cant seem to keep our nose out of others peoples business. Does it matter who wins in Syria? Neither one is gonna be our BFF
Hotticket........wrong..........War affects all Americans...All Americans are qualified whether through loss of friends or familes or the $$ cost of war. If you know someone who is serving someplace, take the time to send letters or emails, send a little something from home, let them know they are still a part of your lives...keep them connected...so they don't disconnect.
Blame Bush. Blame Obama. Blame anybody but yourself. Americans, WE Americans, would not elect anybody who did not get up on that podium and tell us how they are going to make sure we stay a strong America. An America that stands for freedom and an America that will protect its citizens from all of the evil forces that are out there.
What do you think those kind of statements mean? Expect your sons and daughters to be sent to foreign countries to fight in wars. Expect them to be killed and wounded and suffer for years to come from their experiences. Expect to spend trillions as you do this. One thing that you should not expect. Do not expect anything to change. The futility of these ventures is numbing to those of us who think they know better and stand helplessly by as it happens again and again. Keep electing the candidates who say to you that "The United States is a great nation who will ................ blah blah blah. " It always sounds good. The crowd cheers and goes home feeling good and safe and content in the knowledge that we are the good guys. Yes, to some of us who see the futility of it all, we would prefer to be numb, unfeeling, removed. Only we, the voters, can stop this madness so don't blame Bush or Obama or anyone else. Blame yourself.
Jeff, the UN did their job well. there was nothing left of any kind of wmd's other then the high explosive material that Bush let go unprotected, which became the bomb making explosive used to kill our boys. That explosive material was tagged and bagged by the UN for removal and was being stored for shipping out of Iraq. Bush is worse than a criminal. I hope I am standing behind him on judgement day. so I can hear his whining pleas for mercy as God denies him.
Jeffy.....WRONG.....Even Bush finally said it on Face the Nation....There were no WMDs in Iraq....Period. You can simply watch the video of Bush admitting it......War Profits...and the No bid contracts went to republicon companies....FACT!
Jeffy....you need to quit watching Fox news........There is nothing to defend when it comes to the lie into Iraq war.
Iraqi War of WMD fame. George Wmd Bush is still in Iraq looking for his middle name (Wmd).
Iraq is now one of the fastest growing economy, sending more oil to the world, including the US.
Our soldiers have had valuable real combat experiences, prepared for another war if Pres. Jeb Bush comes up yet another WMD hoax.
Thanks, starsailing.
You're right - it's not just the vets whose lives are shattered, it's everyone around them who loves them - but I still feel it's those who have seen the combat who survived it that are impacted the most. And NOT ONE single guy who has been there that I know thinks it was worth it. They ALL say it was one giant clusterfu*k from the word GO. Total FUBAR. One who I talk with on a regular basis said that as soon as he got off the plane in Fallujah back in 2003 he KNEW this whole thing would be a disaster. HE KNEW. And it's no democracy, if anything it's MORE of an Islamofascist theocracy over there. It's just a powder keg waiting to go off.
And again, thanks for the excellent posts.
starbuck49
yes we do remember and we also remember who decided who got the cuts. His name starts with an O just in case you do not know. We got most of what we wanted?? what has to do with the sequester, oh never mind this is on MSN bend and twist.Also who wanted the sequester in the first place THE BIG O
starsailing, Pigotry,
Typical nothing to add to the Adult Discussion, Facts (Definition Fact -Experience or Observations) are not just your conditioned Attention Deficit Disorder One Liner Twits (Definition A Twit - silly annoying person)
Defintion Fact - Experience or Observations.
Definition Opinion - a personal view, attitude, or appraisal without knowledge, thought, or reason.
THE LOW OR NO INFORMATION UNEDUCATED POSTER, AND THOSE THAT VOTED FOR YOUR POST ARE WORSE.
While getting his penis sucked by the Jewish Lobby, Monika Lewinsky, President Clinton starts demanding War With Iraq, in his 1998 State of the Union Address, Weapons of Mass Destruction. And demands US Congress pass a US Law based on his President's Proposal to US Congress, and US Congress passes into US Law, President Clinton's US Law, H.R.4655, "Iraqis Liberation Act of 1998" Section 3 US Policy Overthrow of President Hussein, Section 2 Findings (Justifications) Weapons of Mass Destruction. Previously, 1981, US Ally Israel had attacked the Iraqis Nuclear Research Facility while we (US Military Training Teams) were at US Ally Iraq during the Iran Iraq Wars, this put us at a risk to our lives.
Transcript President Clinton's 1998 State of the Union Address (DO NOT BE LAZY READ THE WHOLE THING):
http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1998/01/27/sotu/transcripts/clinton/
Iraq was due to President Clinton's US Policy Overthrow of President Hussein in accordance with President Clinton's US Law, H.R.4655 "Iraqis Liberation Act of 1998" Section 3 US Policy Overthrow of President Hussein, Section 2 Findings (Justifications) Weapons of Mass Destruction, with US Congresional Appropriations that became 2003 Operation Iraqis Freedom.
President Clinton's US Law, H.R.4655 as 2003 Operation Iraqis Freedom (DO NOT BE LAZY READ THE WHOLE THING):
http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/1057063/posts
Most of us are opposed to President Clinton's US Law and US Policy, as from experience of the US Military Training Teams to US Ally Iraq during the Iran Iraq Wars, we knew President Hussein was the Counterbalance to the Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran using the Iraqis Oil Wealth (Not US Taxpayers Money) and the lives of the Iraqis Citizens of the Iraq Military (Not our US Military arses). Under threat of prosecution, imprisonment, detentions, relief from duty (or command), we go into Iraq in 1998 to hire hundreds of thousands of Shia Iraqis (mostly Illegal Aliens from Iran) to Overthrow President Hussein, that failed because President Clinton's Gutting of the US Intelligence Agencies no longer funded the Local Iraqis Intelligence Assets, so the former local US Funded Iraqis Intelligence Assets to feed their families and survive became Iraqis Counter Intelligence Assets, Iraqis Military Intelligence, Iraqis Law Enforcement (Including Iraqis Secret Police), etc. and they were waiting for the US to attempt something. The hundreds of thousands of Shia Iraqis are captured, tried as Traitors, executed and dumped into mass graves. President Clinton spun this to "Dictator Massacred His Own People".
President Clinton's US Law, H.R.4655 is amended to authorize the Use of US Military Force. President Clinton as Commander In Chief Orders 1998 US Military Operation Desert Fox.
It was President Clinton's 1998 Operation Desert Fox that resulted in the US being Condemned as the Great Satan. In retailation Fundamentalist Islamic Osama Bin Laden starts his planning of the 9/11 2001 Attacks against the Great Satan of the same targets of his 1993 First World Trade Center Bombings.
It was because of President Clinton's Belief that the Cold War Era US Defense, US Intelligence Agencies, US Military were no longer needed that President Clinton as Commander In Chief Ordered the chopping of the US Defense Budget, resulting in the US Army Corps of Engineers not having the Funding for their Infrastructure Projects within the US like the Levees at New Orleans before Hurricane Katrina.
President Clinton's Gutting of the US Intelligence Agencies that left the US Blind and Deaf to the Events leading up to the 9/11 2001 Attacks per Bipartisan US Congressional 9/11 Commission Investigations, Findings, and Recommendations with former President Clinton saying "I'm a so sorry".
Due to President Clinton's Cut to the Bone Reduction In Forces of the US Military it took President Bush from 2001 till 2003 to rebuild the US Military to conduct President Clinton's US Policy Overthrow of President Hussein in accordance with President Clinton's US Law H.R.4655 as 2003 Operation Iraqis Freedom.
Not out of context Full Unedited Transcript of President Bush's Mission Accomplished Speech (DO NOT BE LAZY READ THE WHOLE THING):
http://articles.cnn.com/2003-05-01/us/bush.transcript_1_general-franks-major-combat-allies?_s=PM:US
TO THE AUTHOR, THE WAR AT IRAQ STARTED 2001 OPERATION VIKING HAMMER, OPERATION HOTEL CALIFORNIA.
Ever since dinosaurs walked the Earth (what my subordinates say), when I attended Command And General Staff College, before the Defeat of the USSR, and later War College; it was stated that after the Fall of the USSR, the next Wars would be Asymmetric Wars, NOT Conventional Wars.
Since most of you do NOT believe the FACTS: Fellow Veteran Congressional Representative Tulsi Gabbard,
Gates, Gabbard, Cotton reflect on Iraq war, 3/17/13 9:51 AM
http://www.politico.com/blogs/politico-live/2013/03/gates-gabbard-cotton-reflect-on-iraq-war-159503.html
All of you, just like the f**ked up Politicians REFUSE TO LISTEN TO US (Few Survivors. Experience since the US Military Training Teams to US Ally Iraq during the Iran Iraq Wars, Rotated to Operation Cyclone).
Every service man and woman who join the forces know what is expected to a degree, unfortunatley the powers that be do not have the plan to deal with this magnitude of cases that has been created by the very war they created. It is repeated in every war, the soldiers come back war torn with issues far worse than we can imagine. We see it on the internet but we are not there, we have not seen the vicious war in its magnitude.
Its never going to stop and we are all in for the longest war ever, fighting for peoples sanity in this very virtual viral world of rich dictators around the globe who are just getting richer and more powerful and ready to send you, but not mend or defend YOU!
Thanks to all those who lost lives and are helping save lives.
And as for your headline "WAS IT WORTH IT " seriously.
We lost more troops in Afghanistan during the obama admin than both Bush admins combined since 2001.
But you koolaid drinking libtards won't acknowledge any of that and still blame Bush for everything
David,
how kind you were to not mention that Lyin' Clinton let Osama bin Laden get away to start with.....USS Cole, and the first attack on the World Trade Center..... both were only little ol' bitty "criminal acts"....and the suckee did nothing. I guess he was busy with things under the table.
TO: walljasper1 who wrote:
Well, George "Curveball" Bush is the one that told all the lies to get us into that trillion dollar fiasco, so why try to pawn it off on anybody else?
All of the experts told Bush not to do it, that it would be too costly and accomplish nothing, and even after ALL the experts recommended AGAINST going into Iraq, Bush's only explanation he gave was that he felt it in his "gut" that he should lead us into a fruitless war.
Everyone knows that Bush went into Iraq for the oil, and not for any non-existent "WMDs" and what did Bush do after he took control of the 2nd largest oil field in the world but raise OUR gas prices that nearly bankrupt every working-class American.
bagdadjoe, how kind of you and David to not mention that G W Bush created Osama bin Laden to start with. Supplied him with weapons and training while VP then crossed him up with an attack from his home soil while he was president. Remember how the Republicans cried "wag the dog" when Clinton tried to kill him with a Cruise missile? Oh the irony. If only the Republicans were not playing politics and would have let Clinton finish him off before 9/11. Of course that would not have stopped G W Bush from going after Saddam because he "tried to kill my daddy".
those were some great first post...now let me say this...MISSION ACCOMPLISHED...
Jeff, in your post#1.16, There were actually 2 true statements, Iraq did have chemicals that were used on Kurds in Northern Iraq. They came from Monsanto, an American chemical company. They were delivered to Saddam by Donald Rumsfeld. So, the administration knew perfectly well they had weapons at one time. Another truth was that you cannot have a Democracy and a Theocracy at the same time. Also, Muslims have numerous different sects that are always at war with each other. Iraq should have pointed that out, with the constant bombing and other attacks between Shiites, and Sunnis. Christians also have many different sects, and also have their differences, between Catholics, Baptists,Evangelicals, Mormons, Lutherans. If the Republicans get their wish, and manage to wed the church and the government, the power struggle will make anything in the middle east look like a playground shoving match.
American Girl -the geological survey from Afghanistan ,makes Iraq look like a joke!!!!gold silver lithium---Lithium to power the new electric cars.A new world source of plutonium and uranium.The geologist of the world are blown away.Have you seen the price of copper!This war isn't close to over .Karzi will be dead in 6 months -------MARK YOUR CALENDER
What is sad is how this current administration promised to bring our troops home and instead expanded the effort! Troops come home to joblessness and can't find treatment for PTSD and other mental health problems.
ProFreedom-5130956
yes but he did also promise openness in the white house, now we can't even tour it. The lib's sure did good this time.
Bryan...this article is about Iraq, not Afghanistan, and by your logic, whoever had the most casualties during wartime is to blame? Well then, it's no surprise to you that Bush lost more in Iraq. Of course the logic you're using is just shy of retarded, but, of course, should we have expected anything more from you than retarded logic? Any republican out there could piss gasoline on a group of burning orphans and you'd figure out how it's Obama's fault for allowing a fire to start instead of blaming the republicans.
http://icasualties.org/
It is very sad that Obama is dragging this war on, but at least he has brought some troops home and is drawing down. I'm sure if Romney had won, we would be doubling our presence in Iraq and planning invasions of Iran and N. Korea right now...using massive tax cuts for the wealthy to pay for it all. So, as disappointed as I am in Obama, it is far better than the alternative.
As the article stated:
"Almost 4,500 U.S. troops were killed and more than 32,000 wounded, including thousands with critical brain and spinal injuries. Estimates of the number of Iraqi civilian fatalities are staggering, ranging from 100,000 to 600,000.The monetary cost could exceed $3 trillion."
No,it wasn't worth it. Most of the problems we face now in our country,were caused by,or made worst because of that war.And the lost 3 trillion dollars makes it even harder to fix any of them.
Unlike what Jeb Bush and neo-con posters here think,History,will crucify GW Bush and all those associated with him in that war. He and they will own this disaster until the end of time.
They know it was NOT worth it, but they will rarely speak out against it.
I'm an outspoken Veteran, who was able to see completely through Bush and Cheney, so I decided to retire in 2004. Up until that time, the Army was flooded with dare I say, young white guys, some just turning 18 with so much hate it was pathetic. Their whole premise of joining My Army was to kill "sand-@!$%#s," in Iraq, as they so eloquently put it, all because of 9/11. Their ignorance was so overwhelming they thought by saying "Iraqi sand-@!$%#s," it wasn't an insult to me as a black man, so many times I had to put these little boys in their places, threaten them, and actually charge some of them. As many times as I explained to them, not ONE hi-jacker came from Iraq it did not matter, they believed Bush, Cheney, and that was all that matter. One even told me he considered Bush, God, and he was a soldier doing God's work.
walljasper:
"WE CONSERVATIVES like it when we are at war....."
That's more than enough for me. Time to put away your guns, your hate, your fear, your resentment, and enjoy some happiness for the rest of your life. You'll love it. You earned it.
No it wasn't worth it. This war is ridiculous and still going on wayyy to many years later and obama isn't doing anything constructive about it. I am starting to hate him as much as bush and i am a liberal.
So much one could say.
I learned that it is no trick to "trick" a people into senseless war. It is easy.
Yep and the sad reality is we see the same kind of garbage all the time trying to "convince" us to go to war.
The various "reports" from Syria started to sound eerily familiar of the "reports" about Iraq. The reports about Syria and nerve gas smelled of the same wag-the-dog as the leadup to Iraq. Now we're seeing similar rhetoric about North Korea and with "unnamed sources" providing all these details about how we could theoretically invade and "limit" South Korean casualties.
Iraq proved just how easy it is to manipulate people into supporting war. Meanwhile, I literally JUST finished a debate - well, more like angry argument - with an old friend who was 110% behind the invasion of Iraq because he's completely against taking care of veterans with mental disorders who served in Iraq. His point of view is they did their service and PTSD is "a made up" disorder. Typical American hypocrisy: Support our troops while they're over there, then drop the ball and say "f**k 'em" when they're home while actively seeking out new places to send them.
When a politician starts yelling, "they just want democracy" and "he's killing his own people", beware, the war profiteers are hiding in the shadows holding the teleprompter.
Well, since they know that since no one is buying their "it's in our best security interests" and "these poor oppressed people want to be a democracy like us" garbage anymore, they have now resorted to illegal, immoral and Anti-Constitutional tactics to start wars. And notice how they now use terms like "covert operation" and "humanitarian assistance" to hide what is REALLY going on, which are ACTS OF WAR. And yes, they are doing this to EVERY single country whose government, lifestyle, laws, culture, religion, trade and economic policies they don't like. Read: SYRIA, MALI, YEMEN, EGYPT, and a host of others. It's called REGIME CHANGE, in case you didn't know.
Do search on ...."Bush Lies Nation into Iraq War.".........Spend a year looking at every site that debunks the Bush Cheney Lie in Iraq War for war profits for Cheney and republicons no bid contracts....and for Bush to be known as a war president...Because in his own words, "War president are remembered."
Remember our vets ......go to this site and add info/bio/pictures on our vets who will can no longer have more memories. http://www.vetfriends.com/search.cfm
Starling
Bush did not lie , he use the intelligence that Clinton left, however , more than 3000 people already died under Obamas sight in Afghanistan and we are feeding a corrupt government, we are supporting terrorist in Egypt, we are supporting Syrian terrorist fighting against their government, we are supporting in different ways, wars all over Meddle East and Africa, we are killing innocents every time we us drones to kill a terrorist. There was no waist of lives in Iraq if we give freedom to a country under a tyrannic regime that kill their Kurd population using WMD, and then they had the chance to have a Democratic electing for the first time, and spark a new movement of freedom in the Meddle East.
Dick Cheney is a traitor and war criminal. Thank you Republicans for weakening and bankrupting our nation.
And the lies continue under the Obama administration. Please don't be fooled by7 the R or D letter they are the same behind closed doors. Or President is shaped and molded by the powers that be and have few options. The owners of this country have finally come out of the shadows and Americans are waking up to it. The Germans lost the war but Fascism won. They impose their power by force in the weaker countries but us the monetary system to control the more powerful. Doesn't it seem strange that all the economic powers are all having the same devaluation of their currency? The weaker countries are faced with invasion.
We were lied to and NO ONE is accountable for it! 100,000 -600,000 innocent Iraqis killed, maimed. No wonder they hate us! We should be ashamed, because we did everything that is UNAMERICAN!
Does anyone really understand and have a legitimate reason over any of the events in anyone's lives?. The Bible talks of leaning not on your own understanding, which means in essence that the main purposes in this life despite all the heart wrenching , unfair events, and tragedy's are not fully known- yet life IS worth it. The question here is not solely about a war or Iraq but what is worth it to anyone on any given day- we could circular reason about this on and on. This article is persuasive for sure. And I question the numbers. Life has unfair tragedy and is never "fully" a safe place without harm unless we live in a freaking bubble shell to protect ourselves and never try. There are corrupt humans in many areas of life and you can put on armor and live on the street and never try and never go out never build anything for you might get hurt or fall off a ladder. Grow up you complacent Americans with this insane luxury you have to wonder what is worth it? You debate the reality all the time and the reality is you have this freedom for men and women gave up their lives, you have a protective coating and barrier against the daily struggle that most countries face everyday in unsafe environments. You still dont get it? The comments and articles like these area atrocious viscous questions of totally ignorant people living in an illusion utopia - life has hurt and struggle and it is all worth it, that we try to understand and defend other people who were wrongly and blatantly murdered by a leader. it is documented without a doubt that a few nations were developing programs of nuclear arms and they had time to get them out. Whether our administration knew about it or not- we have to go with the idea that American soldiers were used regardless to do the right thing, it is not understandable and does not makes sense fully, but good sacrificial men stopped something and altered a nation to "change" for the better and show that other people of a nation need not stand around and take abuse from an old tradition which justifies somehow the murder and oppression and mind control of many many civilians who submitted to a chaotic authority. How dare the people who wrote this article for it is treason, simply treason to the causes of the United States as being a beacon for all nations and races. How many come running here to find the freedom only we offer? So much so that we go poor over and throw away our ingrained values to accommodate immigrants and empathize with their struggle. How dare the writer and origin of this article accuse this nation of this sort of lie and attack on another nation and imply that somehow this was a crime of some kind? We in fact do not understand fully what we were used to do but the USA and the Bush administration had a decision to make- as I look back I remember many many Americans wanting to punch the terrorists back and not take the attack lightly. The weapons were certainly removed and the program has been once again disguised by a conspiracy stranger than fiction- the liberals in this nation are so blind to the global govt. take over that they will take down the USA in so many areas never seeing the oppression of woman in other nations ,never seeing the out of balance nature of law and order in other nations yet tearing down a justice in the United Sates that has given so many more people freedom than any other civilization....wake up America- the soldiers did the greatest sacrifice and honor any human made in Gods image can do- you better thank them and be close to bowing at the feet of the American soldier - not blaming someone or making them question it in reflection. Life has so many struggles we cannot understand but its worth it. A 5 year dying in a car accident, a young mother dying of cancer - it does not make sense. Grow up children, life is not guaranteed here on earth, but by Gods grace , by Gods power , perfection will come from weakness and life is risen beyond where human eyes can see. We need to fight some battles to bring peace at times, we need to move on and try to get people to learn to love and love even enemies, but we also need to stand against certain evils that are too harsh to turn away from. The wars of nations are not our individual immorality of life, it is a result of the Fall of mankind which inherited sin. And we know at this point it is a mystery. I do not beleive Americans "want" wars but they are a fact of life and we need to learn to deal with it as well as the rest of the tragedies that go along with this existence co existent with good and evil. But it is all worth it!!!If you do not think so than stop trying and stop believing all the invisible qualities around and remain empty and without desire for anything important and go down with the corrosion and decay of a life without hope and without faith in the greater plan yet to be where life never ends and grace re creates all that is wonderfully made.
Iran is next. You would think it would not happen if Clinton wins but when her hubby was president he took a hard line with Iran after Bush I began a moderating approach. Iran in late 90s began to moderate its anti-American spread of the revolution trying to get US aid to rebuild after war with Iraq and Clinton told them to ef themselves mainly for domestic political reasons as it was easy to make Iran the boogy man. We know if a Rep wins it will happen. That is the result when you dont prosecute the people responsible. They come back with even bigger plans next time. These were the same Nixon guys who then did Iran-contra.
When we took the same approach towards war with Mexico at least we got the SW. In that war we sent US troops to disputed border area knowing they would be attacked because Mexico had refused to sell the SW.
“Was it all worth it?”
NO !
While the 'Bush Haters' blame him for American war deaths, keep in mind that in 8 years under Bush, we lost 532 Americans (66 per year) in Afghanistan, but in just the last 4 years under Obama, we have lost 1,657 Americans (more than 400 per year) in what Obama called the 'good war'.
When the final accounting is made for Afghanistan, will we also ask "Was Obama's war surge worth it"?
Wakehead "Dick Cheney is a traitor and war criminal."
Since Obama has continued the policies of Bush, does that mean that "Barack Obama is a traitor and war criminal"?
By the way - What decision did Cheney make that made him a 'war criminal'? Vice Presidents only give their 'opinions' to the President. Only the President can make the final decisions on any issue.
Your blind hatred is revealing.
One of the many things that made the Iraq war such a bad idea was that it removed a major bulwark against Iran and propelled them forward in the region. Just plain stupid.
Until Senators, Congressman and Presidents live by the same rules we do, nothing will ever change. Rand Paul 2016!
Roy Wilson, if you believe Bush was driving the bus and not Cheney, then you really are delusional.
I really love you dopey liberal progressive Dumbocrats, you kind of get it right but as usual you fall short. Agreed baby bush and chumly got the country into 2 wars that were not worth the pain and dollars. Fine you dopes, now you have you guy in the White House, had both Houses of Congress for 2 years. And what have you done to get out? Nothing correct, so maybe is it kind of sinking into you thick heads that there isn't any difference between the Republicks or the Dumbocrats on major issues? They both do the soft shoe for the bankers and wall street crowd. Next stop North korea, or maybe Iran.
ROY WILSON-336103
And your blind allegiance to Bush and Cheney is oh-so-obvious and downright sickening.
Obama's "surge" was simply a troop level correction after Bush took his eye off the ball... tell me you don't know that.
RED....and ROY WILSON..........BUSH LIED......Still too hard for you to comprehend. The whole world agrees.
From Opednews.com 1/23/2008 Bush "unequivoally" lied U.S. into war with Iraq.
A nonprofit collaboration of two independent, non-governmental organizations has concluded that President Bush used at least 532 misleading and deceptively false statements to justify military action against Iraq. In all, the Bush administration as a whole used a mind-numbing 935 false statements to goad America into war with Iraq. Calling their findings "an orchestrated deception on the path to war," the partnership report may very well be the first fully comprehensive investigation that incontrovertibly proves the Bush administration lied this nation into an unfounded war.
The Center for Public Integrity and the Fund for Independence in Journalism determined, through a collective study and breakdown of Bush administration speeches, press briefings and interviews, that Bush and other top officials "led the nation to war on the basis of erroneous information."
According to the report, Bush alone lied more than 259 times, including 232 false statements "about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq" and "28 about Iraq's links to al-Qaida." Quoting Charles Lewis and Mark Reading-Smith of the Fund for Independence in Journalism, "It is now beyond dispute that Iraq did not possess any weapons of mass destruction or have meaningful ties to al-Qaida." Furthermore, the shared study noted, "the statements were part of an orchestrated campaign that effectively galvanized public opinion and, in the process, led the nation to war under decidedly false pretenses."
Among the seven top officials cited, Colin Powell was the most egregious in the dispersal of dissembling and mendacious language regarding the requisite call for war against Iraq. Powell is attributed to having made 244 false statements about weapons of mass destruction in a two-year period beginning on September 11, 2001 and through the commencement of military action in Iraq on March 18, 2003.
As a microcosm example of at least 935 lies cataloged by the exhaustive study, Vice President Dick Cheney declared on August 26, 2002 that "Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction." Bush's patently false proclamation, made on May 29, 2003, "We have found the weapons of mass destruction," has now been completed discredited. Of course, no weapons of mass destruction were ever found and George Bush, on NBC's Meet the Press in 2004 conceded, "No weapons of mass destruction had been found in Iraq."
There is more to this article....People like redvirginia apparently can't handle the truth. Simply do search on ....Bush lies nation into war with Iraq...don't take false info from people like redvirginia or Fox news. YES BUSH/CHENEY and their cabinet are war criminals...just like Nixon committed tREASON by stopping LBJ's peace signing in Viet Nam War. Do search on LBJ tapes with Senator Dirksen.....More tapes released the other day showing Nixon lied and stopped LBJ peace signing between North and south Viet Nam. Republicons, the party of WAR PROFITS FOR THE RICH AT THE COST OF U.S.LIVES!
starsailing, LMarcT
Typical nothing to add to the Adult Discussion, Facts (Definition Fact -Experience or Observations) are not just your conditioned Attention Deficit Disorder One Liner Twits (Definition A Twit - silly annoying person)
Defintion Fact - Experience or Observations.
Definition Opinion - a personal view, attitude, or appraisal without knowledge, thought, or reason.
THE LOW OR NO INFORMATION UNEDUCATED POSTER, AND THOSE THAT VOTED FOR YOUR POST ARE WORSE.
While getting his penis sucked by the Jewish Lobby, Monika Lewinsky, President Clinton starts demanding War With Iraq, in his 1998 State of the Union Address, Weapons of Mass Destruction. And demands US Congress pass a US Law based on his President's Proposal to US Congress, and US Congress passes into US Law, President Clinton's US Law, H.R.4655, "Iraqis Liberation Act of 1998" Section 3 US Policy Overthrow of President Hussein, Section 2 Findings (Justifications) Weapons of Mass Destruction. Previously, 1981, US Ally Israel had attacked the Iraqis Nuclear Research Facility while we (US Military Training Teams) were at US Ally Iraq during the Iran Iraq Wars, this put us at a risk to our lives.
Transcript President Clinton's 1998 State of the Union Address (DO NOT BE LAZY READ THE WHOLE THING):
http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1998/01/27/sotu/transcripts/clinton/
Iraq was due to President Clinton's US Policy Overthrow of President Hussein in accordance with President Clinton's US Law, H.R.4655 "Iraqis Liberation Act of 1998" Section 3 US Policy Overthrow of President Hussein, Section 2 Findings (Justifications) Weapons of Mass Destruction, with US Congresional Appropriations that became 2003 Operation Iraqis Freedom.
President Clinton's US Law, H.R.4655 as 2003 Operation Iraqis Freedom (DO NOT BE LAZY READ THE WHOLE THING):
http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/1057063/posts
Most of us are opposed to President Clinton's US Law and US Policy, as from experience of the US Military Training Teams to US Ally Iraq during the Iran Iraq Wars, we knew President Hussein was the Counterbalance to the Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran using the Iraqis Oil Wealth (Not US Taxpayers Money) and the lives of the Iraqis Citizens of the Iraq Military (Not our US Military arses). Under threat of prosecution, imprisonment, detentions, relief from duty (or command), we go into Iraq in 1998 to hire hundreds of thousands of Shia Iraqis (mostly Illegal Aliens from Iran) to Overthrow President Hussein, that failed because President Clinton's Gutting of the US Intelligence Agencies no longer funded the Local Iraqis Intelligence Assets, so the former local US Funded Iraqis Intelligence Assets to feed their families and survive became Iraqis Counter Intelligence Assets, Iraqis Military Intelligence, Iraqis Law Enforcement (Including Iraqis Secret Police), etc. and they were waiting for the US to attempt something. The hundreds of thousands of Shia Iraqis are captured, tried as Traitors, executed and dumped into mass graves. President Clinton spun this to "Dictator Massacred His Own People".
President Clinton's US Law, H.R.4655 is amended to authorize the Use of US Military Force. President Clinton as Commander In Chief Orders 1998 US Military Operation Desert Fox.
It was President Clinton's 1998 Operation Desert Fox that resulted in the US being Condemned as the Great Satan. In retailation Fundamentalist Islamic Osama Bin Laden starts his planning of the 9/11 2001 Attacks against the Great Satan of the same targets of his 1993 First World Trade Center Bombings.
It was because of President Clinton's Belief that the Cold War Era US Defense, US Intelligence Agencies, US Military were no longer needed that President Clinton as Commander In Chief Ordered the chopping of the US Defense Budget, resulting in the US Army Corps of Engineers not having the Funding for their Infrastructure Projects within the US like the Levees at New Orleans before Hurricane Katrina.
President Clinton's Gutting of the US Intelligence Agencies that left the US Blind and Deaf to the Events leading up to the 9/11 2001 Attacks per Bipartisan US Congressional 9/11 Commission Investigations, Findings, and Recommendations with former President Clinton saying "I'm a so sorry".
Due to President Clinton's Cut to the Bone Reduction In Forces of the US Military it took President Bush from 2001 till 2003 to rebuild the US Military to conduct President Clinton's US Policy Overthrow of President Hussein in accordance with President Clinton's US Law H.R.4655 as 2003 Operation Iraqis Freedom.
Not out of context Full Unedited Transcript of President Bush's Mission Accomplished Speech (DO NOT BE LAZY READ THE WHOLE THING):
http://articles.cnn.com/2003-05-01/us/bush.transcript_1_general-franks-major-combat-allies?_s=PM:US
TO THE AUTHOR, THE WAR AT IRAQ STARTED 2001 OPERATION VIKING HAMMER, OPERATION HOTEL CALIFORNIA.
Ever since dinosaurs walked the Earth (what my subordinates say), when I attended Command And General Staff College, before the Defeat of the USSR, and later War College; it was stated that after the Fall of the USSR, the next Wars would be Asymmetric Wars, NOT Conventional Wars.
Since most of you do NOT believe the FACTS: Fellow Veteran Congressional Representative Tulsi Gabbard,
Gates, Gabbard, Cotton reflect on Iraq war, 3/17/13 9:51 AM
http://www.politico.com/blogs/politico-live/2013/03/gates-gabbard-cotton-reflect-on-iraq-war-159503.html
All of you, just like the f**ked up Politicians REFUSE TO LISTEN TO US (Few Survivors. Experience since the US Military Training Teams to US Ally Iraq during the Iran Iraq Wars, Rotated to Operation Cyclone).
In 2009 due to President Obama's Failed Foreign Policies the US gets KICKED OUT OF IRAQ. Loss of the US Military Logistics Support Bases at Pakistan required to support the United Nation's Mission at LANDLOCKED Afghanistan, Unsupportable UN, US, NATO Military Forces must leave LANDLOCKED Afghanistan by 2014.
WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION WAS NOT THE REASON FOR THE US GOING INTO IRAQ. President Clinton's US Policy Overthrow President Hussein was, ever since before 1998 US Military Operation Desert Fox.
During the Iran Iraq Wars US Ally Iraq used Chemical Weapons to end the years long Iran Iraq Wars, just like the US use of Nuclear Weapons made the Invasion of Japan unnecessary (saving Millions of Lives on both sides). I keep telling you that US Ally Iraq at that time did NOT have the capability to manufacturer Chemical Weapons; so you figure out where they got them from.
In 2001 Operation Viking Hammer, Operation Hotel California we attacked, seized and secured the Iraqis Chemical Weapons Facility at Sargat Iraq. Those of us that had experience with Chemical Weapons requested authorization to follow the trail, the Iraqis Chemical Weapons possibly evacuated from Iraq to next door Syria, the authorization was denied as not to violate the Soverign Nation of Syria.
Go research these 2001 Operation Viking Hammer, Operation Hotel California, Iraqis Chemical Weapons Facility at Sargat Iraq.
I told you why that happened:
1. General McKiernan created his War Plan To Win Afghanistan.
General McKiernan requests from President Obama as Commander In Chief 90,000 US Military. President Obama denies General McKiernan's Request, then as Commander In Chief President Obama Ordered his April 2009 US Military Budget Cuts while the US Military is engaged in Two Wars (Iraq and Afghanistan) and President Obama's Secret Wars. The US Military lost Funding for Sustainment of ammunition, fuel, food, water, etc.; lost Funding for maintenance of aircraft, vehicles, ships, submarines, etc.. US Military Families start sending "Care Packages" of body armor, magazines for M-16s/M-4s, underware, boots, uniforms, boot laces, helmets, canned foods, etc.; lost of Funding for Training.
Non Profit Companies start sending US Military things like toothpaste, tooth brushes, etc..
U.S. troops turning to civilian supplier for combat vests, medical kits
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/02/20/17021507-us-troops-turning-to-civilian-supplier-for-combat-vests-medical-kits?lite
Some of us were saying "Valley Forge", the Holiday Season was the worst (near Arctic Afghan Winter).
General McKiernan as his Duty goes Public after the US Politicians refuse to listen with a CBS News Interview with Katie Couric. President Obama is outraged, and demands General McKiernan's Letter of Resignation. After General McKiernan Resigns President Obama grabs General McKiernan's War Plan To Win Afghanistan; President Obama without any Military Training nor Experience does not know and refused to listen, that General McKiernan's War Plan to Win Afghanistan is useless without General McKiernan's Commander's Intent. President Obama renamed General McKiernan's War Plan to Win Afghanistan the Obama War Plan to Win Afghanistan.
2. President Obama installs his Registered Democrat General McChrystal as Commander ISAF. President Obama starts his "Iraq Wrong War Afghanistan is the Right War", "Anything he (General McChrystal) needs he will get". President Obama as Commander In Chief Ordered General McChrystal to implement the Obama War Plan to Win Afghanistan. General McChrystal requested 90,000 US Military, President Obama denied General McChrystal's request and sent 1/3rd, 30,000 US Military. The President Obama War Plan To Win Afghanistan failed miserably resulting in the unnecessary deaths of US Citizens of the US Military and Canadian Military Forces. President Obama blamed General McChrystal.
Unclassified Carl Forsberg, Afghanistan Reports, Institute For The Study Of War.
President Obama's Political Appointee Civiians on General McChrystal's High Level Staff see the many flag draped coffins being loaded on aircraft and start saying, "This Administration Does Not Know What It Is Doing".
Secretary of Defense Gates warns us that President Obama as Commander In Chief has Ordered the Reduction In Forces of 90,000 US Military, Unemployment of 108,000 US DOD Civilians; meaning those of us remaining, more tours of Duty, longer tours of Duty. Secretary of Defense Gates states that in protest he will be tendering his Letter of Resignation.
Secretary of Defense Penetta, 2012, "A 10% Defense Budget Cut will result in a Million (US) Civilians becoming Unemployed". President Obama as Commander In Chief Ordered a 11% Defense Budget Cut. 2013 Secretary of Defense Penetta states his intent of tendering his Letter of Resignation and stated "he will go work on his (Walnut) Farm with a different kind of Nut".
Promises, promises, and more promises;
a) President Obama promised to close Gitmo. Did he? NO.
b) President Obama promised in March that the Libyan War would be short term? Is it? NO.
c) President Obama promised that Obamacare would reduce the cost of health care. Will it? NO.
d) President Obama promised that his Stimulus would keep unemployment below 8%. Did it. NO.
e) President Obama promised that his administration would be the most transparent in history. Is it? NO.
f) President Obama promised to End the income tax for seniors making less than $50,000 per year. Did he? NO.
g) President Obama promised to Repeal the Bush Tax cuts for high income earners. Did he? NO.
h) President Obama promised to Stop companies in bankruptcy for giving executives bonuses. Did he? NO.
i) President Obama promised to Allow 5 days of public comment before signing legislation. Did he? NO.
j) President Obama promised to Negotiate health care reform with public sessions on C-SPAN. Did he? NO.
k) President Obama promised to Initiate comprehensive immigration reform in his first year. Did he? NO.
l) President Obama promised to Expand and make refundable the child and dependent care credit. Did he? NO.
m) President Obama promised to End no-bid contracts above $25,000. Did he? NO.
n) President Obama promised to Forbid companies in bankruptcy from giving executives bonuses. Did he? NO.
o) President Obama promised to Allow workers to claim more in unpaid wages and benefits in bankruptcy court Did he? NO.
p) President Obama promised to Allow imported prescription drugs, to lower cost for Americans. Did he? NO.
q) President Obama promised to Mandate insurance coverage of autism treatment. Did he? NO.
r) President Obama promised to Appoint federal-level coordinator to oversee all federal autism efforts. Did he? NO.
s) President Obama promised to Direct the Secretary of Health and Human Services to conduct a comprehensive study of federal cancer initiatives. Did he? NO.
t) President Obama promised to Create a National Commission on People with Disabilities, Employment, and Social Security. Did he? NO.
u) President Obama promised to Change federal rules so small businesses owned by people with disabilities can get preferential treatment for federal contracts. Did he? NO.
v) President Obama promised to Form international group to help Iraq refugees. Did he? NO.
w) President Obama promised to Allow five days of public comment before signing bills. Did he? NO.
x) President Obama promised to Tougher rules against revolving door for lobbyists and former officials. Did he? NO.
y) President Obama promised to Double funding for afterschool programs. Did he? NO.
z) President Obama promised to Urge states to treat same-sex couples with full equality in their family and adoption laws. Did he? NO.
aa) President Obama promised to Allow bankruptcy judges to modify terms of a home mortgage. Did he? NO.
bb) President Obama promised to Re-establish the National Aeronautics and Space Council. Did he? NO.
cc) President Obama promised to Support human mission to moon by 2020. Did he? NO.
dd) President Obama promised to Pay for the national service plan without increasing the deficit. Did he? NO.
ee) President Obama promised to Limit term of director of national intelligence. Did he? NO.
ff) President Obama promised to Give annual "State of the World" address to the American people in which I lay out our national security policy. Did he? NO.
gg) President Obama promised to Reduce earmarks to 1994 levels. Did he? NO.
hh) President Obama promised to Enact windfall profits tax for oil companies. Did he? NO.
ii) President Obama promised to Require plug-in fleet at the White House. Did he? NO.
jj) President Obama promised to Provide an annual report on "state of our energy future". Did he? NO.
kk) President Obama promised to Allow penalty-free hardship withdrawals from retirement accounts in 2008 and 2009. Did he? NO.
There are enough broken promises here to make just about anyone to say Obama sucks, he talks the talk but can’t walk the walk. Listed above are just some of the lies, I have not updated in a while as this so called man makes me sick
David....you don't like facts...so you just try to dismiss them....doesn't play here.....
Bush lied nation into Iraq war.
Nixon commits treason stopping peace signing LBJ had set up.
Do search on either and spend all day and night reading the facts.You know ...facts...truths ..David can't handle as always!
Yeah that's original, David. Just ignore everything that happened after Clinton left office. I'm glad he so much secret influence over Bush 43 and his cabinet even after he was out of office. Not saying that Clinton was an angel but you can't tell us that Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld (real axis of evil) have clean hands. We all know better.
TO answer the question posed in the article: of course it wasn't worth it.
Clinton also believed that Iraq had WMD's. I served during that time. Wasn't Clinton before Bush?
The great error of the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq was the almost impulsive desire to rebuild them in our own image. We have had this bug since the 2nd world war when we successfully rebuilt Germany and Japan. Unfortunately, the middle east is a whole different ballgame and you are dealing with people who don't like you, don't like western ideas and values, and believe that they are truly obeying the will of God as their local holy man sees it. This is an easily recognizable recipe for failure, but we still got mired in it because we thought that it was the right thing to do.
We should follow a different course the next time we find it necessary to go to war. Establish in advance a finite set of MILITARY goals to destroy the enemy's ability to conduct operations. Apply the maximum amount of force to crush those MILITARY objectives thoroughly and then leave them with a warning of "Don't make us come back and do this again." The whole business of rebuilding their country is not our problem and if the bad guys come back to fill the power vacuum then hammer them again. Eventually, they will figure out that their bad behavior is not going to be tolerated.
The vast majority of casualties sustained in these two wars occurred after the completion of the actual MILITARY objectives. IF we had just kicked their butts and left, those young men and women would not have paid the price that they did.
Another network had the videos today on line of Collin Powell at the UN, and the PM of England, Blair, talking to them to get them cranked up to invade. It was all "we know" they have WMD, numbers were given, amounts, time to prepare the chems, time to launch, projected targets etc. Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Wolfowitz wanted war so bad they could taste it. Cheney wanted it for his corporate contractor friends to profit from. All the Flag officers in the Pentagon save one, were for it - career opportunities for them. The one got cashiered because Bush Cheney wanted to have nothing but "yes men " around them. We already had an enforced no fly zone over 2/3 of the country for 8 years. Dumba$$ S. Hussein didn't believe we'd do it so he played like he had WMD which our incompetent gubmint took as evidence. Back home as the Dems and Repubs cranked up the rhetoric, if you weren't for it you were anti-American, you didn't support the troops therefore you weren't worthy. So even the bubbas and uneducated public fell prey to the ad campaign for war that the Feds perpetrated using FOX network as the leading drum beaters. So enjoy the war folks, and all the dead and cost that goes with it. Should have listened to the one General who said "no". Even C. Powell went into quiet retirement, knowing he got played and used like a prostitute. This is going in history as the most pitiful waste of people since the American Indian wars. If we lose a war like this it'd be our gubmint officials on the gallows instead of S. Hussein. Not just the loser, but the criminal losers get hanged. The resources wasted when Iran is actually building nukes and Iraq was just a distraction is the real crime. We're going to need those resources one day, but they are lost now.
Well we know that they did have WMDs at one point because Saddam used them on his own people. There is, however, no evidence that they were still around by the time we got there. They had 10 years or so between Gulf War I and the sequel to use them, get ride of them or hide them. That point's irrelevant though as they were no threat to us either way.
Note to ROY WILSON,
There is a reason that there "were only" 532 deaths in Afghanistan in Bush's 8 years. Let me remind you the Brainiac team of Bush/Cheney pulled the US troops out of Afghanistan to do the big "Super Idea" push into IRAQ. Allied troops in Afghanistan filled in and lost many of their fine young people. I saw the caskets going down the highways in Canada, while Bush and company were having their fun with Iraq. A number of Republicans, including Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, Jeb Bush, (with Cheney constantly hovering) had written a position paper on and Iraq invasion even before George W. made it into office.
Short answer: No
Long answer: Hell @!$%#ing NO!!
Too many people suffer from OIS to ever hold Pres. Obama accountable.
http://johndoe2241225.newsvine.com/_news/2013/03/17/17347075-warning-new-disorder-discovered-ois
Fantomdog "Roy Wilson, if you believe Bush was driving the bus and not Cheney, then you really are delusional."
What an interesting thought. Now we know who's REALLY running things in Washington - Joe Biden.
lol
LMarcT "ROY WILSON-336103 Obama's "surge" was simply a troop level correction after Bush took his eye off the ball... tell me you don't know that."
So I guess you think that things in Afghanistan are going really well since Obama has 'put his eye on the ball'?
Perhaps you should reexamine your 'blind allegiance' to Obama.
Bush II's wealth came from oil, oil is now flowing from Iraq. You figure it out!
Like I stated before, that is why starsailing, IReadyou, Jeffor, Jody5789 et al are FOS (Full Of Sh!t) when confronted with the WRITTEN HISTORICAL DOCUMENTED FACTS; as Non Participants, they can only sling their manure opinions on everyone at Newsvine's "Get Smarter Here".
Most of them according to a Teacher that I know Stateside do not even know the name of the current Vice President and you expect them to know that as Cause + Effect = Results, to determine a Causative Timeline (who did what to cause what). Because they refuse to determine and accept the Causes they cannot figure out the Solutions.
Iraq and Afghanistan were/are United Nation's Missions.
Non participants reading baloney written by non participants from information from other non participants. Unlike non participants we like knowing why we might get killed.
Post your links and references to your "facts"starsailing.
Definition Fact - Experience or Observations. My FIRSTHAND EXPERIENCE AND FIRSTHAND OBSERVATIONS versus your starsailing NO Firsthand Experience No Firsthand Observations.
Due to President Obama's Failed Foreign Policies the US was KICKED OUT of the Islamic Shia Nation of Iraq, with the Allies of the Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran, the Chinese and Russian Federation getting the Iraqis Oil that could have paid for the US And US Allies Liberation of Iraq with Decades to Centuries of Iraqis Oil.
This Loss of the Iraqis Oil made the Libyan Oil of Strategic Importance to the US European Allies. President Obama was already outsmarted as the Holy Warriors of Islam had already Overthrown US Ally Egypt and were attacking US Ally Libya.
How about this Dick-2100935 (Penis) you list the names of President Obama's Foreign Policies that Failed, short titles and dates; and the current Results of each.
TO: J.P who wrote:
It was easy because George "Curveball" Bush used the highest office in the land to promote those tricks.
At the time Bush told all those lies, we used to trust the President of the United States to tell us the truth at least on the topic of going to war and that war should always be the "last resort", which is why Bush had Condolezza "Mushroom Cloud" Rice out there telling lies about Iraq having nuclear weapons.
TO: walljasper1 who wrote:
Well, George "Curveball" Bush is the one that told all the lies to get us into that trillion dollar fiasco, so why try to pawn it off on anybody else?
All of the experts told Bush not to do it, that it would be too costly and accomplish nothing, and even after ALL the experts recommended AGAINST going into Iraq, Bush's only explanation he gave was that he felt it in his "gut" that he should lead us into a fruitless war.
Everyone knows that Bush went into Iraq for the oil, and not for any non-existent "WMDs" and what did Bush do after he took control of the 2nd largest oil field in the world but raise OUR gas prices that nearly bankrupt every working-class American.
Just like before each Iraqi wars, autocratic, highly corrupt and despotic bigoted Sunnis of versions belonging to Saudi Arabia, UAE, Qatar, Kuwaiti and Sunni oil rich nations are stage managing their dances and actions through oil companies, extremist Jewish lobbys and their puppets in the US, Britain, EU and other nations on Syria and Iran.
With sanctions on Iranian oil, oil prices which was around $40 in 2009 has crossed $90 now.
Everyone is ignoring that Iranians can easily get/buy nukes from Pakis. As a matter of fact, Pakis sold nuke technology to Iran, N. Korea and Libya’s Gadhaffi.
If Iraqi wars gave us PIIGS, there will more nations added to PIIGS due to sanctions on Iranian oil.
IRAQ WARS
Net results of Saudi, Kuwait, UAE, oil companies and their lobbyists directed 1991 and 2003 Iraqi wars are
WINNERS
1. Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, UAE and other rich ME sharks became richer by manipulating oil prices too high.
2. Oil companies and their lobbyists also benefitted. Oil prices, which were hardly $30 a barrel before 1991, shot up to $140 a barrel.
3. Since 2003, future traders, rating agencies, Wall Street and oil companies and their lobbyists transferred five trillion dollars from oil importing countries to oil exporting nations.
4. Rich Sunni ME sharks (Saudi Arabia in particular) funded Salaffi and Wahhabi mosques and Islamic radicals and terrorists all over the world. These Sunni Islamic radicals and terrorists are rampaging all over the world. World’s 80 percent of problems are due to them.
LOSERS
1. General US and European nations’ public. There have been high unemployment, cut in welfare measures, housing market collapse and more miseries. Since 2001, US spent three trillion dollars on Iraq and Afghan wars. Did the Saudis and co foot the bill?
2. Poor soldiers killed and injured and their families. In Iraq and Afghan wars 6300 soldiers were killed and 40000 injured.
3. High budget deficits and heavier borrowing. Many nations (PIIGS) and people are on line to bankruptcy!
4. Iraq will plunge into bloody sectarian civil wars leading to the creation of Shiastan, Sunnistan and Kurdistan. Here the losses are of Iraqis.
LMarcT
yep kind of like what LBJ did then roflmao
If Obama is carrying on the same policies as G W Bush, why do Republicans hate him so much? Obama is forced to carry on the wars to an honorable end where Bush was trying to stay in Iraq as McCain said a hundred years. Obama went in with the soul purpose of getting Osama bin Laden where Bush was "not concerned about OBL". (his own words only months after 9/11). Obama is trying to restore the economy where Bush failed policies nearly caused it to collapse. But all you right wing nut cases keep drinking the kool-aid. If only it were the Jones recipe.
American Girl...spot on....We just watched the Twin Towers go down day after day, all the videos and info played over and over...and the nation came together as one.........AS...........ONE!
Bush and Cheney had the plan in place to attack Iraq before the 911 attack. Within days Bush was given intel that it was Bin Laden, then the ass......asks his top level investigator to find if Iraq had something to do with it........The guy was more than dumbfounded...more than appalled....that Bush dared to imply or even state such a crazy thought! He informed Bush who it was....and Bush wants to go after Iraq.......CRAZY!!!
Remember this.........the nation became one....and Bush/Cheney/Rove/Rumsfedlt and cabinet ripped the nation apart by abandoning troops in Afgan and taking the rest into Iraq for glory and WAR PROFITS!
BUSH/CHENEY tore America apart...for the greedy rich 1%....$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Like I stated before YOU don't listen to Facts; just like the dumbarse US Politicians. They were NOT "his own people" (President Clinton's Justifications, 1998 State of the Union Address demanding War With Iraq; President Clinton's US Law, H.R.4655 Section 2 Findings (Justifications). I TOLD YOU DON"T BE LAZY AND READ THE LINKS AT POST#2.20, AS NOT TO MAKE A FOOL OF YOURSELVES.
Iraqis: Arabs, Language Arabic, Sunnis.
Kurdistanis: Indo Europeans, Language their form of Farsi, Shia (Fundamentalist Islam). During the Iran Iraq Wars the Armed men, women, children Ally of the Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran.
Shia (Fundamentalist Islam) at Iraq: Persians, Language Farsi, most fled to Iraq after the Fall of the Shah of Iran and the massive Unemployment.
Iranians: Persians, Language Farsi, Shia (Fundamentalist Islam).
You were NOT at US Ally Iraq during the Iran Iraq Wars, we were as the US Military Training Teams that were rotated to Operation Cyclone.
"Ooosa", "Ooosa", as the inside joke that most Anti US Protestors chant, that would be you American Girl-724855, Jeffor, starsailing, Larry-2260635, et al.
Was Vietnam worth it? Most of the guys who served there say no, so did the thousands of protestors in the 60's who finally convinced L. Johnson to end it! Where's the outrage against Kennedy who got us involved in that 'police action', wink, wink.
History would suggest Vietnam was a mistake, perhaps the same will be said of Iraq down the road.
You libbies have such a short memory!
Jeffor: rewriting history is not allowed. Yes there was gas attack: Before Operation desert shield, which was in place 8 years prior to the Invasion. The operation enforced a no fly zone and had inspectors all over Iraq looking for the weapons = WMD. Things like gas were found and destroyed under UN supervised clearing operations. They must have found em all. After the invasion an even bigger search was held looking for WMD. Guess what ? None were found. So just blurting out they had em cause they used em once, is OK for us commoners who don't keep up with current events, but we expect exactness from our leaders who have not been attacked by Iraqi's yet want to go to war against Iraqi's. Starting wars is a different level of responsibility than just blurting out in an anonymous forum. You know the US dropped an Atom bomb, twice. Does that mean we are going to do it today ? Tomorrow ? Different level of responsibility.
David, the stuff you are posting is all old news and how do you decide that I'm a "non-participant?" How do you know what I read and what I don't. You're siting CNN and MSN for crying out loud. All stuff we've read before.
Whoa All I did was state that they did have some form of WMD at one point. I am very much against any action we've taken in Iraq, even Iraq I: The Early Years. I just like to look at both sides when I form my opinion unlike many others around here.
History tells us Kennedy made many mistakes, especially in Vietnam and the Bay of Pigs.... he was clueless in Foreign Affairs! But he did earn kudos dating Marilyn Monroe while married to Jackie... great taste in women, unlike Bill and Barry!
Bush and Cheney LIED through their teeth!! To what cost? In dollars and lives please? But what bothers conservatives? Benghazi!!!
David the Kurds that he gassed were inside Iraqi borders so that would effectively make them his own people. Yes I know that Kurdistan holds some autonomy but they were still massacred by Hussein. Three to five thousand civilians died. Pretty well know fact. That point is irrelevant though because it was still no justification for war. I was only pointing out that an argument could be made. Maybe you are the lazy reader if you can't handle the short three sentence blurbs found on discussion boards.
What all the readers here need to do is check out the fact that the largest international oil companies have secured a deal for all the Iraqi oil.
That is why we went to war and not all the other bullsh!t we get.
What we need to see everytime we buy gas at 4.00 is that the cost of the war has to be added. The actual, cost not counting the lives, is closer to 20.00 per gallon.
This country is in the trouble that Eisenhower warned us about, THE MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX. Added to that is the international corporate take over of all our wealth.
Love of country and patriotism are merely used to make us feel good while we invade and kill other human beings. SURE, many other countries are like that, or should I say, like us.
Good luck as we plunge ever deeper into de facto slavery as was predicted in George Orwell's novel, 1984.
We really have to quit with all the flag waving and the crap about how we are better than everyone else. That is exactly the way Hitler got the Germans to go stock raving nuts enough to do what they did. I know this because I'm over 80 and listened to the Hitler speeches on the old newsreels they had between double bills at the movies
American Girl WOuld all those experts be Congress. You know that group of folks that votes if we goto war or not. Seems funny that you forget congress voted almost unanimously to goto war with Iraq.
enacted October 16, 2002, H.J.Res. 114) is a joint resolution passed by the United States Congress in October 2002 as Public Law No: 107-243, authorizing military action against Iraq.
Ten years after Iraq invasion, US troops ask: 'Was it worth it?'
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A little delay in curiosity there? A good many people were wondering this 10 years ago when Bush was wearing tight jeans, using a make-up artist and talking about the invisible weapons of mass destruction.
So Jeffor THen the Mexicans that come to the US illegally are Obama's people. Well that may be true as he treats them that way.
The Kurds were not his own people nor did they even consider themselves Iraqi
Pippo, Right on with your comment #2.5. you did leave out a few industries/companies. It is not only due to oil it is also due to the debts that the elected ones have to other companies like Boeing, Raytheon, IBM, etc.
They have to use up all that hardware so they can order more from the companies the politicians are indebted to
Kurdistan is within Iraq's borders and what are you trying to say anyway? That it was OK to gas them because they are Kurds? Again I am against the war anyway but just making a point. Obviously lost on you as I am very much against both wars we had in that country.
Pippo: gas is not $4/gallon because of the war. Gas from Texas, Indonesia, Arabia, Canada, Venezula sold in the US is $4/gal. Same gas in Europe is way more. Same gas in Japan or Korea is about $10 per gal. Far as I know, Japan, Korea, Europe, Venezula and the rest are not at war. Gas in the US is still the cheapest in the world except for consuming countries. Where oil IS their economy and they export it it is cheaper than here. So, you wnat to know about the cost of war ? Look at the US debt. And that is unfinanced.
Was the war in Iraq worth it? Many of us asked the same question when we came home 40+ years ago, about Viet-Nam. Many are still asking. Sadly, it's always been, to quote an unknown Confederate soldier, "a rich man's war and a poor man's fight".
Witness the Power of the Lie.
All those deaths. All those trillions.
Bush's father indicated to him in 2003 that he disagreed with his son's invasion of Iraq.
And neocons in denial wonder why non-conservatives rightfully blame G. W. Bush and Company, to this very day.
-----------------------------------
Two Years Before 9/11, Candidate Bush was Already Talking Privately About Attacking Iraq...
Excerpts:
"He was thinking about invading Iraq in 1999," said author and journalist Mickey Herskowitz. "It was on his mind. He said to me: 'One of the keys to being seen as a great leader is to be seen as a commander-in-chief.' And he said, 'My father had all this political capital built up when he drove the Iraqis out of Kuwait and he wasted it.' He said, 'If I have a chance to invade.if I had that much capital, I'm not going to waste it. I'm going to get everything passed that I want to get passed and I'm going to have a successful presidency."
Scowcroft, national security adviser in the elder Bush's administration, penned a highly publicized warning to George W. Bush about the perils of an invasion.
The notion that President Bush held unrealistic or naive views about the consequences of war was further advanced recently by a Bush supporter, the evangelist Pat Robertson, who revealed that Bush had told him the Iraq invasion would yield no casualties. In addition, in recent days, high-ranking US military officials have complained that the White House did not provide them with adequate resources for the task at hand.
"He told me that as a leader, you can never admit to a mistake," Herskowitz said. "That was one of the keys to being a leader."
At A congressional hearing examining the march to war in Iraq, Republican congressman Walter Jones posed "a very simple question" about the administration's manipulation of intelligence: "How could the professionals see what was happening and nobody speak out?"
Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson, Colin Powell's former chief of staff, responded with an equally simple answer: "The vice president."
According to Herskowitz, George W. Bush's beliefs on Iraq were based in part on a notion dating back to the Reagan White House - ascribed in part to now-vice president Dick Cheney, Chairman of the House Republican Policy Committee under Reagan. "Start a small war. Pick a country where there is justification you can jump on, go ahead and invade."
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1028-01.htm
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2011/12/leadup-iraq-war-timeline
Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld are war criminals, locke them up and throw away the key
David...try visiting the planet the rest of us are on...it is called earth! You are either too lazy to search ....Bush lies nation into Iraq war....or......totally in denial of any truth. I can give you hundreds of websites on the issue....you however won't read one of them.......you bask in your comment of only you having first hand experience...and deny everyone else of their service time.......David....those voices you hear day and night....under your bed, in your closet.....boogeymen....gonna getcha!!!!
RRADIKO....spot on as always...!
Larry-2260635
wow what ever it is your smoking they sure want it in Washington State. Obama has done more to collapse the economy then anyone ever has. He has had the reserve print money like it was rain water. Don't worry folks I'll pay for everything, here is some freshly printed money.
_______________________________________________
.
Was it worth it for our soldiers, American tax payers/citizens, Iraq citizens ? NO!
.
Listed below is who the war was fought for. ( Those who profited the most. )
______________________________________________________________________
1. Halliburton; (war criminal Dick Cheney's buddies)
The first name that comes to everyone’s mind here is Halliburton. According to MSN Money, Halliburton’s KBR, Inc. division bilked government agencies to the tune of $17.2 billion in Iraq war-related revenue from 2003-2006 alone. This is estimated to comprise a whopping one-fifth of KBR’s total revenue for the 2006 fiscal year. The massive payoff is said to have financed the construction and maintenance of military bases, oil field repairs, and various infrastructure rebuilding projects across the war-torn nation. This is just the latest in a long string of military/KBR wartime partnerships, thanks in no small part to Dick Cheney’s former role with the parent company.
2. Veritas Capital Fund/DynCorp
At first blush, a private equity fund (and not, say, Exxon-Mobil) being the number 2 profiteer in the Iraq war might sound strange. However, the cleverly run fund has raked in $1.44 billion through its DynCorp subsidiary. The primary service DynCorp has provided to the war efforts is the training of new Iraqi police forces. Often described as a ‘state within a state‘, the sizable company is headed by Dwight M. Williams, former Chief Security Officer of the upstart U.S. Department of Homeland Security. With this and other close ties to defense agencies, Veritas Capital Fund and DynCorp are well-positioned to capitalize on Iraq even more.
3. Washington Group International
The Washington Group International has parlayed its expertise the repair, restore, and maintenance of high-output oil fields into $931 million in Iraq-related revenue from 2003-2006. The publicly traded 25,000 employee company’s other specialties include the building and maintenance of schools, military bases, and municipal utilities, such as watering systems. Some have complained that Washington Group’s hefty government payoffs have served primarily to raise its trading price on the New York Stock Exchange. One thing is for sure – with oil prices continuing to rise, there will be no shortage of demand for the oil protection services Washington Group International brings to bear.
4. Environmental Chemical
All war zones eventually becomes cluttered with spent ammunition and broken/abandoned weapons, creating a lucrative niche for any company willing to clean it all up. In Iraq, this duty has fallen into the hands of Environmental Chemical. The privately held Burlingame, California company has stockpiled $878 million by the end of fiscal 2006 for munitions disposal, calling upon its “decade of experience planning and conducting UXO removal, investigation, and certification activities.” The company has close ties to several defense agencies and is staffed by graduates of the U.S. Navy’s Explosive Ordinance Schools, as well as the U.S. Army’s Chemical Schools at Anniston.
5. Aegis
Aegis has done the United Kingdom proud after reeling in a contract to coordinate all of Iraq’sprivate security operations. The Pentagon contract is good for $430 million (incredibly lucrative by any standard) but it has landed Aegis in some hot public relations water. The company’s decision to contribute to Iraq war efforts has lead to a rejected membership application from the International Peace Operations Association. According to The Independent, the influential trade organization does not consider Aegis worthy of inclusion in the “peace and stability industry.” It remains to be seen whether Aegis will continue to be ostracized for participating in the training of Iraqi security forces.
6. International American Products
Even with all of the blinding innovation and trailblazing advances in military technology, none of it would be very useful without electricity. Running electrical wiring in hostile war zones is dicey business, but International American Products has stuck their neck out and collected a cool $759 million in just 3 years for its efforts. While avoiding enemy fire, their work has become increasingly dangerous – and yet, critically necessary – as Coalition forces struggle rebuild cities, put down warring forces, and stabilize the chaotic nation. Schools, oils wells, and other public infrastructure have relied on IAP for the electricity needed to operate. With Iraq slowly beginning to stabilize, International American Products is holding out hope that its job will eventually become less treacherous.
7. Erinys
London-based Erinys has so far scored $136 million for its effort in securing Iraq’s precious oil reserves. Riding the coattails of its considerable mining, petroleum, and construction expertise, the company has already made considerable headway toward this critically important goal. In the space of just 16 months, Erinys successfully trained, equipped, and mobilized an all-Iraqi guard force of nearly 20,000 to protect the nation’s oil pipeline from terrorist attack or sabotage. With crude oil prices skyrocketing and no end in sight, Erinys looks to have its hands full for years to come.
8. Fluor
Fluor scored a monster $1.1 billion contract in 2004 to build, service, and manage water/sewage systems in Iraq. The deal is actually a joint venture between Fluor (a 44,800 employee company based on Aliso Viejo) and London’s AMEC, PLC and actually encompasses two separate contracts. The first – worth $600 million – obligates Fluor to build a water distribution infrastructure and cleaning system for Iraq’s major cities. A second $500 million deal will have the lucrative joint venture performing similar tasks in other, less hostile regions of the country.
9. Perini
Perini (controlled by financier Richard Blum) is one of the more controversial companies to have scored big-time Iraq war money. That’s because Blum’s wife, Senator Dianne Feinstein, appears to have used her seat on the Military Construction Appropriations subcomittee to steer the $650 million environmental cleanup deal in his favor. This has lead to outrage and cries for conflict of interest investigations among those in the media, as well as Feinstein’s peers in Congress. Feinstein has also neglected to comment on this potential conflict of interest. This has lead to what Metroactive.com calls an “omission [that] has called her ethical standards into question.”
10. URS Corporation
Another widely disparaged, Blum-controlled company that has profited from Iraq is URS Corporation. Long known as one of the nation’s major defense contractors, San Francisco-based URS has collected $792 million in environmental cleanup fees in Iraq war zones. As with Perini, both Blum and Feinstein have come under intense scrutiny to answer questions about the apparent conflict of interest inherent in Feinstein helping to secure such an exorbitant government contract for her investment banker husband. Both Blum and Feinstein have refused to produce copies of the ethics commitee’s rulings on Perini and URS, leading to considerable suspicion.
.
(Let's not forget; G.E., Boeing, Northrop, McDonald Douglas, Exon, Bank Of America, Wall Street, etc.)
.
"That" is who the war was fought for. It had absolutely NOTHING to do with American security.
As a side note,,,,,,
,,,,, funding this useless war on credit (as we ignorantly did ), will cost the American taxpayers huge amounts of interest to pay off bonds issues by the Federal Reserve,( thus, robbing future generations of U.S. taxpayers).
Further, some of the largest war profiteers, ( G.E., Boeing, etc.) paid ZERO DOLLARS INCOME TAX on their huge war profits.
__________________________________________________________________________
The word "literally" is thrown around a lot, but I think it actually is LITERALLY impossible to overstate the stupidity of the Iraq War. It's costing us trillions, thousands of lives of just our own people (and I'll stay callous and just make this about the American lives lost), and it really hasn't improved American lives in any way. The price of gas hasn't come down. There's still wars pondered in the Middle East. What good did it do us, really? I'm not indifferent to the lives of the Iraqis affected, I'm just looking at this from a purely practical view.
Not only did it have no benefit, it ruined our chance of succeeding in Afghanistan, which was a hard enough task in the first place. The issue with Afghanistan is that it actually does need nation building to stabilize itself. It became a terrorist haven because there was no structure, and it remains a failed state because we were unable to secure that structure in time.
Obama hasn't really helped matters by essentially staying the course, but all we can really do at this point is pull out, because the chance to have what we viewed as good will to be done is past. Obama needs to pull out, but the reason people keep putting this on Bush is because it IS Bush's fault, and just because Obama is president, they didn't magically become his colossal @!#$-up. Historians believe Bush will go down as one of the top 5 worst presidents we've seen in history yet in large part because of this. He wanted to play these war games, he did so essentially on a whim, and he used up TRILLIONS of dollars to do so without asking Americans to sacrifice anything in return. If we're going to go to war, the country should have to sacrifice their time, money, or service in some way. He didn't ask Americans to do so because he knew that Iraq never could've happened if he did.
If you've voted for Bush, or really anyone related to pushing that war, and you consider yourself a fiscal conservative, don't even bother posting a response. This is the kind of crap that makes our budget untenable. This is what puts our economy at risk. The Iraq War was quite possibly the stupidest foreign policy move in American history.
Many are unaware - that the murders of Syrians is in fact an ethnic cleansing of Christians from the population.
The focus of the deaths of these Christians has not been publicized the way it would be - if the killings were Muslim. Christians have been killed holding prayer meetings in their homes.
Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton and Jay Carney all condemned "The Youtube Video" that made Muslims mad (supposedly) enough to attack and kill our citizens and Ambassador.
This - was later proven to be a lie by the administration.
No one from the Administration is complaining as Syria continues in the killings of Christians by Muslims - which is Sad and Pathetic - for a President who was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize
What up Obama?
Are you not forgetting the next war that is coming along.
Israel is chomping at the bit to get America involved in the mess that they created in their own backyard.
AIPAC will make sure that the US will be there. So get the body bags ready you will be needing them.
Can you afford that war, you are broke, the poor US soldier is being used as cannon fodder and the poor soldier is fighting a war for something that he does profit in except Lockheed Martin, and Dick Cheney and friends
rradico said it well. If old George told Jr it was a mistake to start that war I believe it. That man was brain damaged from pounding alcohol and drugs for over 30 years. He used to brag of it. But Old George caused that war as surely as if he started it himself. He wanted his idiot son to be great and coddled him, helped him stay out of the draft, and got his rich friends to set Jr. up. His machine got Jr. elected. And all Jr. wanted was to finish thew war in Iraq that his deddy stopped early - (in his mind). And the brain damage was on display for all of us to see. Cheney saw it too. It's how and why he became the puppeteer in chief. And Cheney wanted that war too. His corporate military industrial pals got filthy stinkin rich on the graves of thousands of dead Americans, untold Iraqi's, and darned near bankrupted us.
And how many did we loose in Iraq Roy?...I believe it was more than 1657. I don't care what you or anyone else thinks of Obama. This isn't about Obama, it's the 10th anniversary of the IRAQ war. So tell me Roy, was it worth cost in American and innocent Iraqi lives to you?
I have to go with Gandhi on this, the good of violence is short lived the evil is forever. Seeing Saddam hanged good, the people who come after him. Don't look any better.
4,486 dead americans in Iraq, this evil is forever.
You guys just don't get it. It's not the repubs or the demos who control things, it's the military-industrial complex that controls the repubs and the demos. The military-industrial complex wants continual war all over the world. They don't care who lies, just as long as somebody does. Lies that drag us into another expensive, years-long war. All the Iraq War did was make Iran stronger. And guess who will leading the fight into Iran, here is a hint, it won't be Israel. The whole reason this country was founded was the acquisition of personal wealth. That's why the pilgrims got off the first boat. Now 400 years later, samo, samo. As the money gets bigger, the people on top get more into the shadows, they hide as the money just keeps rollin' in. Where do you think all the Billions of Dollars ended up that went missing in Iraq? Can anyone spell foreign bank accounts. So before you blame Clinton, Bush/Cheney, or President Obama try to look into the shadows and see who really runs things in our country. And they could give a $hit about you and all the people that died, both ours and theirs!!
Kill a man and you get Life or the Death penalty. Kill a 100K+ you get a second term.
You can't bring them back but like the banks that are to big to fail to big to prosecute. How do you bring these people to account for their crimes. That is a serious question without convictions without the perp walk. All these thousands of dead people will have is the verdict of history. Where is the justice for those dead today. There has been a crime commited here the world knows it but it looks like it will go unpunished. What sort of signal does that send to those who inhabit the bastions of power. Only that there is profit in misleading and misdirecting the American people.
$3 Trillion and the 40 yrs out est. is $7T cost to this economy. Roy (Bush Butt Boy) would have us all believing Bush is the MAN. But actions speak louder than words. He keeps off the radar for a reason... the SS cant protect him.
Like I stated before YOU DON'T know ANYTHING, further proof of the failed US Education System, just like Wakehead,Captiosus, LMarcT, Dick-2100935, Jonathan-1982062, Larry-2260635, tjohn_missouri, Pippo Schillaci, holly888, rradiko, VICTORIA-1632092, Close the Fed, starsailing, dEd Grimley, IReadyou, Ol_Doc, oh oh oh, Barlow-1919963, in flagrante delicti, et al.
Ever since the Treaty of Luasanne, the Kurdistanis have been fighting Turkey, Syria, Iraq, sometime Iran for Land to create the Nation of Kurdistan. SEEMS THAT MY "OLD NEWS" IS NEW NEWS TO YOU AND UNDEDUCATED LOW INFORMATION BUDDIES BASED ON YOUR POSTS.
So, you are just fine with the Mexican Drug Cartels arming the over 23 Million Illegal Aliens at the US, that would be the same situation with the relationship with the Fundamentalist Islamic Kurdistanis PKK, HPG, KGK, and the Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran.
And now President Obama indirectly thru US Ally Saudi Arabia and US Ally Kuwait arming the "Syrian Rebels" consisting of Al Quada Iraq, Al Quada Syria, and the Kurdistanis PKK, HPG, KGK, as well as President Obama violating (again) the 2010 US Supreme Court Ruling upholding the US Laws against the Material Support to Terrorist Organizations.
Just like President Obama supported the "Libyan Rebels" consisting of Al Quada Saudi Arabia (AQ), Al Quada Islamic Maghreb (AQIM), Al Quada Syria (AQS), Al Quada Yemen (AQY), Hezbollah, Al Quada Arabian Peninsula (AQAP), the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG), etc..
Negotiating with the Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban behind everyone's backs since 2010.
WHEN DID YOU SERVE OR LIVE AT IRAQ. You think that the News Media does NOT lie (Propaganda).
I posted President Clinton's US Law and the Link at post#2.20 that YOU FAILED TO EVEN READ because you and the other low information uneducated don't like the Historically Documented Facts, just asinine opinions.
This Iraq Situation is not over, so in the Future do not come whinning and crybabying to us, the next Situations will be YOURS.
After GWB's invasion on Iraq "on a Lie" with thousands of U.S. Troops dead or mangled for life, what did we get ( "Bankrupt Nation" ) thanks George !!!
Boy George should have sent more of his time on North Korea instead of playing Rambo !!!
Sadly enough most fall all that flag waving patriotic crap without ever seriously questioning the government.
Start with that what ever comes out of the governments mouth, doesn't what department, that they all are lying.
And if you don't agree with them then they declare you un-patriotic.
Why would we david? Your Neoconservative leaders have proven themselves inept. They have demonstrated a complete nativity in forming foreign policy and strategic military planning and they have doubled down with their inability to carry out those policies. Why would we come whining to the likes of you. You seem to enjoy portraying yourself as the nations foremost military authority, but you see...I've read your posts.
God Bless America
No easy answer to war! but, Sadaam needed to be stopped! and his armed forces, Annialated!
We're in the same boat with North Korea and Iran! and their Flouting Nuclear Weapons! It AIN'T GONNA CHANGE!
War profits for Cheney and republicons. No bid contracts war profits, arranged by Cheney only going to republicon companies. Blood for money on republicon hands by lying nation into Iraq war.
Republicons vote against Vets jobs bills and Ryan plan cuts more Vets benefits to give more tax breaks to the rich. Vets are committing suicide at a record pace while republicons reap the war profits.
When does the republicon greed end?
Democrats voted to give Bush the authorization to go to war, based on his claims. Bush made the decision to go to war. The claims all turned out to be false.
An investigation should be launched to determine who promoted those false claims. I know it was the neocons, Israel and the media. The Christian Science Monitor had several stories debunking the aluminum tubes, the forged Niger documents and the mobile biological weapons labs, long before Bush used them in his State of the Union message, which he used to help sell the war. Rice used the term "Mushroom clouds over NY" to sell the war.
Judy Miller, of the NY Times, was using leaked stories from unnamed sources (neocons) in the Pentagon, to blame Saddam for the anthrax attacks, which we now know were manufactured in the US.The neocons promised us the war would be a "cakewalk". Read below:
Zionist warmongers like Ken Adelman and the Zionist Washington Post pushed the war in
an editorial titled, “Cakewalk in Iraq.” Jewish supremacists Richard Perle and
Paul Wolfowitz told you that Iraq would “Welcome us as liberators.” Iraq became
the longest war in American history. Here is a report from USA Today: “Pentagon
officials estimated for the first time Wednesday that up to 360,000 Iraq and
Afghanistan veterans may have suffered traumatic brain injuries.” Now that’s
not counting tens of thousands who have suffered maiming, amputations, or death
in this war based on lies.
Note: Obama would not have to extract us from the wars if Bush and Cheney had not started them.
Iraqi wars were worth it for one percent of manipulators. But it was losses from all sides for 99 percent of Americans and world.
______________________________________________________________________________
Hi RalphH,,,,,,,
,,,,,,, Obama did NOT "extract" from the Iraq war.
We were kicked out when the Iraq Government refused to extend immunity. Period.
Then, and only then did we leave , ( contrary to Obama's promise to end the war as his first duty of office ). He wasn't the war criminal that started the war, but nor did he end it as he had promised.
That same Axis of Evil, Zionists, neocons and the military-industrial complex, that duped America into the unnecessary, illegal war in Iraq by exaggerating Saddam's military capability is now trying feverishly to dupe America into another unnecessary, illegal war, this time against Iran.
Israel's crack intelligence service, the Mossad, supposedly the best in the world, had to have known that Saddam had disarmed years ago, just as Saddam's defector son-in-law, who had been in charge of Saddam's weapons program, told us. Yet no congressperson has dared criticize Israel ('our eyes and ears in the Middle East') for its role in urging us to go on what proved to be a fool's errand (congresspersons value their jobs, and don't want to lose them--such is the power of the Israeli lobby). Israel's motive for its role in lying us into war: it wanted permanent American bases established in Iraq for an American war on Iran.
Two of the agents for this Axis of Evil, Senators Robert Menendez and Lindsay Graham, have introduced a resolution, S.Res.65, that says that if Israel "is compelled to take military action in self-defense, the United States government should stand with Israel and provide diplomatic, military and economic support to the government of Israel in its defense of its territory, people and existence." In other words, should just one man in Israel, Bibi Netanyahu, wake up one morning and decide that it's God's will for him to bomb Iran, American will be forced by law to join in the the ensuing war. S.Res.65 is a backdoor to war with Iran.
If you don't want to lose thousands more of your sons and daughters in still another war inspired by this Axis of Evil, contact your congresspersons and demand that they vote against S.Res.65.
Can we chalk this one up as a loss yet? Will the millitary historians be saying Insurgency Warfare 2 America 0?
Losmuertos, if you count Viet Nam, it's: Insurgency Warfare 3 America O.
I was counting Vietnam, I wasn't counting Afghanistan as that is not over yet
Los, the answer would be no.
Republicans just hate America for it's freedom.
That is difficult to probe.
How Republicans can hate Americans Freedom;
When you have Democrats and liberals demanding to take away our guns that limit our freedom to defend ourself , when we have Democrats and liberals demanding more regulations to limit our freedom , we have democrats and liberals supporting for more spending, more debt, that put ouw country in weaker condition putting in hostage our future economic freedom .
How Republicans hate America,
Are not the liberals that dislike our constitution.
Are not liberals that acept burn our own flag as a symbol of freedom of speech.
Are nor the liberals that open the borders to illegals and allowed them to take American Jobs.
Are not the that are against our Army and demand to expel recruiting offices from Colleges.
Who are the ones that hate America and AAmerican freedoms?
Redvirginia: Those on the right only quote the constitution when it concerns the second amendment. Maybe if you supported it in it's entirety we'd take you more seriously. You can't pick and choose.
Paul71-1655761
Care to expand on your post a bit? As in explaining why historians won't be saying Insurgency warfare 2 america 0
Larry-367607
yes you are so right/left so who supports the second amendment?? He can't pick and choose BUT you can?? You must be related to Obama that is what he and his cronies do. If your picture depicts your ethnic back round then you might research the Republican party some more and answer me who was the driving force behind the freeing of slave, SURE as heck was not the democrats. Being the republicans where in support of freedom for the slaves. that would include freedom of speech, religion, right to assembly, and the other as well. You are right we republicans only support the second amendment. You know what shuck and jive is?? Do you know there is a lot of that coming out of Washington, do you know that is from BOTH parties?? you seem t pick and choose so I will let you pick but if I where to pick I would pick a Doctor !!
Serious............you can't be more ridiculous in your comment , when you vote for a president that pick and choose what laws to enforce.
The 'war" in VietNam that was a Dumbocrat one, if you remember, JFK and LBJ, as was WW1, WW2 and Korean conflict. So given those facts are you knid of getting the idea that it doesn't matter which party the Republicks or the Dumbocrats are office, we are going to war. Been fighting one constant one since 1917, with the except when you got soon isolationist in office for a few terms.
redvirginia, nice false equivalence post. There are 'exceptions' to EVERY Amendment but one, the 2nd. Why? The 'Patriot Act' circumvented the Constitution, who did that? Some show the U.S. flag upside-down as their emoticon as a faux-distress signal, and who are they? The 'Southern States' bordering Mexico are REPUBLICAN controlled, why haven't THEY stopped the illegal immigration into the U.S.? You want to talk about RECRUITING? Do you even remember the No Child Left Behind Act, Bush's 'new education law' he passed? There, buried deep within the law's 670 pages, is a provision requiring public secondary schools to provide military recruiters not only with access to facilities, but also with contact information for every student, or face a cutoff of all federal aid. A 'Liberal' did this?
ARMY....another rt winger wrong...V.N. started under Eisenhower. and Nixon committed treason when he stopped the peace signing LBJ had negotiated. Nixon lied the day before election saying he had a secret plan to end the war...lie/treason #2. He then escalated the war killing another 22,000 troops.
LBJ tapes show LBJ had FBI tap phones in S.V. Nam Embassy, where Nixon was caught having ambassador telling S.V.N. not to sign, he would get them better deal when elected.
Republicon party, the party of treason for war profits and personal glory!!!
Do search on LBJ tapes with Senator Dirksen or Nixon commits treason Viet Nam war.
Hey fatdog...the Feds prevent the states from enforcing illegal immigration laws...where have you been?
Oh the irony of stupid arguments.
Who supports the freedom of a woman to chose?
Who supports the freedom of birth control?
Who supports the freedom to discriminate against another race?
Who supports the freedom of guns? (Contrary to what the NRA says, Democrats support guns, just not certain types of arms.)
Who supports the freedom of banks to rob common people?
You see, both parties support freedom but the argument is about which freedoms. If you truly support freedom you would support ALL of them. Not just the ones you like.
As well as they should. If Florida had their way, Yankee immigrants would not be allowed to stay in Florida more than a couple weeks at a time.
Anyone that believes a state should have the rights to enforce immigration has rocks in their head. If a state should find someone that they believe is an illegal immigrant they should be allowed to turn them over to the federal immigration department but by no means should they be allowed to deport them. Just because a person does not have papers does not mean that person was not born and raised in this country. Also no state should be allowed to require a person to carry papers on his person unless they are papers such as a drivers license that gives him the privilege to drive a vehicle. The Constitution disallows unlawful search and seizures so why should a state be allowed to stop and question anyone that MAY look like an illegal immigrant? That's why the feds stepped in to stop Arizona.
Larry-2260635
Seems odd that you ignore the check points set up by Boarder Control and HS well within the US doing exactly what you say they can't do. This is Obama right now that is allowing this...show us your papers
starsailing
and what where the french doing while Eisenhower started??
Sure...I agree....goes on the French....they had De....Galle to start it!
wrong style of war -loss no- BRING DOWN OBAMAS WAR
I about died laughing the other day when I saw a bumper sticker, presumably from the 2008 election: " End the wars, vote Obama!"
We still have non-combat role US troops in Iraq and obviously still fighting in Afghanistan 5 years after then candidate Obama promised to "end the wars". And Iraq took 3.5+ years longer than Obama's 2008 campaign promise to withdraw from Iraq in 16 months.
No
You better start yelling for an end to war...Israel will grill obama to fight thiers soon CAN YOU SAY HELL NO ---NO MORE WAR!!!!!!!!!!
Obama will do very little to help Israel ... He is for the muslin countries all the way... Why do you think he gave the MBH all the Tanks and Air Craft? To Fight Israel.
"Obama will do very little to help Israel"
He's the President of the United States, not the President of Israel. We give more military aid to Israel than any other nation by a factor of at least 10. Let Israel fight their own battles.
Why should he help any nation? let them figure it out on their own. Isreal and the oil companies are the cause of mid east problems. they invented terrorism. The Irgun, stern gang, Haganah. Total terror. The Arabs are just "copy cats'.
At last, someone who points out Israel's terrorist past! Don't forget the Dancing Israelis Mossad agents observed celebrating and filming the WTC collapse starting BEFORE the first plane hit the WTC!
Does anyone remember why Israel is where it is??
I've never heard about any real concrete evidence of weapons of mass destruction being found. Some say they weren't and others say they were. The war was about getting Saddam's WMD. Not bringing democracy to Iraq.
Ta-Deu
Remember, Saddam Gassed His Own people, he Killed well over 6,000 with Gas. Would you consider that a WMD, also it has been proven that Syria has WMD which came from Iraq.
Get serious.. that's NOT what we were told, that's NOT the lie that was told to get us into this war. We were told flat out that Saddam would use nuclear weapons against us. Stop the lies, get a clue, that's just pathetic.
also it has been proven that Syria has WMD which came from Iraq
Do you have a link to that?
Wow. Someone really still believes the WMD lie? After no credible traces of WMD were found by multiple international agencies? And trying to link it to Syria, the stories of whom also lack credible proof of their supposed nerve agents? Just wow.
No wonder people are so easily led into wars.
The WMD myth is the rabbit hole that won't end.
also it has been proven that Syria has WMD which came from Iraq
Do you have a link to that?
Try the wiki traitors files. They had information about it.
And you believe a traitor?
The War was about George Bush and vendetta for his Daddy. Plain and simple. The war mongers plied Then president George W Bush's head with things like, They have Nuclear Weapons AND at the same time you can avenge what Saddam did to your Daddy! He jumped right on-board. G.W. got his revenge... war Mongers got their war.. so who cares that it messed up our economy and had NOTHING to do with 911 right?
I still cannot believe that they got away with invading Iraq. Was it worth it? No not even the guys that where fighting think it was.
What a waste the Iraq war was. In 2 years it will be as if we weren't even there, and in my opinion, we took out someone who was no threat to us, creating 100,000 terrorists in the process, and now we have a Real Threat as the Shia are now in power (Iran).
WTG .... nice to plan ahead huh? ((Sarcasm))
I watched my best friends 21 year old son leave yesterday, he signed up for the marines, and we had his going away party Saturday. I hope he comes back in one piece mentally and physically... and my son and i have talked about him wanting to go into the marines as well.. sigh.... Hopefully there will be no "preemptive" strikes or wars for a couple of years... lets get the GI's that are broken fixed first maybe? I saw my friends messed up from the Vietnam war.... now i see it again in the generation... same thing just different wars.. when we will learn?
Here We Are........well said. Bad enough that so many people believed the Bush Cheney lie into Iraq war...now the payback republicons give to our Vets are cuts to Vet benefits and voting against a jobs bill for Vets.
Republicons....they got your war profits and they don't have your Vet's backs. Ryan just put out another crazy plan...and of course, it cuts benefits to Vets......while giving more tax breaks to the rich and more money for defense contractors.
Vote Democratic party...end the madness of republicons war for profits for the greedy rich!
No WMD's. Susan Lindauer, CIA asset, was jailed under the Patriot Act for telling Bush administration that Saddam wanted to avoid war so much he offered to buy 1 million US autos a year for 10 years. They tried to drug her but she got out and tells her ordeal on youtube.
The war was about finishing what Bush senior failed to finish, taking out Saddam. Had we merely wanted to destroy any potential WMD sites cruise missiles and bombs work fine. That's how Israel has done it several times. We didn't need an invasion.
Hey Herewego again hey nice walk down history lane, with the Viet Nam thing, your friend going over, yea me to. But you failed to mention what little lie, by one of the biggest BS artists, LBJ got us going over there? I will let you google that one.
Army 1971, I am no stranger to what transpired, he didn't start it, he did escalate it though.. the guy did good on stuff here in USA though. Not exactly my favorite president. i kind of blame him for my dead family and friends, and my friends that are screwed up. Goldwater was no match for him.
I vote who i think the better man/woman for the job is. so, please don't waste the party line thing on me, no offense meant, i just don't buy into either party with any regularity... and the worst it having to decide who the lesser evil is.. That my friend is something we all should be concerned with.. the quality of the people getting elected..
Personally I think everyone should drop the party line, and make a third party. To be honest i am disillusioned with Everyone lately.
As they say we are gong to hell in a bucket.. but i ain't enjoying the ride no mo'
EZWriter69, Captiosus, PurrDoc, Here we are again, starsailing, Ta-deu,
Typical nothing to add to the Adult Discussion, Facts (Definition Fact -Experience or Observations) are not just your conditioned Attention Deficit Disorder One Liner Twits (Definition A Twit - silly annoying person)
Defintion Fact - Experience or Observations.
Definition Opinion - a personal view, attitude, or appraisal without knowledge, thought, or reason.
THE LOW OR NO INFORMATION UNEDUCATED POSTERS, AND THOSE THAT VOTED FOR YOUR POSTS ARE WORSE.
While getting his penis sucked by the Jewish Lobby, Monika Lewinsky, President Clinton starts demanding War With Iraq, in his 1998 State of the Union Address, Weapons of Mass Destruction. And demands US Congress pass a US Law based on his President's Proposal to US Congress, and US Congress passes into US Law, President Clinton's US Law, H.R.4655, "Iraqis Liberation Act of 1998" Section 3 US Policy Overthrow of President Hussein, Section 2 Findings (Justifications) Weapons of Mass Destruction. Previously, 1981, US Ally Israel had attacked the Iraqis Nuclear Research Facility while we (US Military Training Teams) were at US Ally Iraq during the Iran Iraq Wars, this put us at a risk to our lives.
Transcript President Clinton's 1998 State of the Union Address (DO NOT BE LAZY READ THE WHOLE THING):
http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1998/01/27/sotu/transcripts/clinton/
Iraq was due to President Clinton's US Policy Overthrow of President Hussein in accordance with President Clinton's US Law, H.R.4655 "Iraqis Liberation Act of 1998" Section 3 US Policy Overthrow of President Hussein, Section 2 Findings (Justifications) Weapons of Mass Destruction, with US Congresional Appropriations that became 2003 Operation Iraqis Freedom.
President Clinton's US Law, H.R.4655 as 2003 Operation Iraqis Freedom (DO NOT BE LAZY READ THE WHOLE THING):
http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/1057063/posts
Most of us are opposed to President Clinton's US Law and US Policy, as from experience of the US Military Training Teams to US Ally Iraq during the Iran Iraq Wars, we knew President Hussein was the Counterbalance to the Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran using the Iraqis Oil Wealth (Not US Taxpayers Money) and the lives of the Iraqis Citizens of the Iraq Military (Not our US Military arses). Under threat of prosecution, imprisonment, detentions, relief from duty (or command), we go into Iraq in 1998 to hire hundreds of thousands of Shia Iraqis (mostly Illegal Aliens from Iran) to Overthrow President Hussein, that failed because President Clinton's Gutting of the US Intelligence Agencies no longer funded the Local Iraqis Intelligence Assets, so the former local US Funded Iraqis Intelligence Assets to feed their families and survive became Iraqis Counter Intelligence Assets, Iraqis Military Intelligence, Iraqis Law Enforcement (Including Iraqis Secret Police), etc. and they were waiting for the US to attempt something. The hundreds of thousands of Shia Iraqis are captured, tried as Traitors, executed and dumped into mass graves. President Clinton spun this to "Dictator Massacred His Own People".
President Clinton's US Law, H.R.4655 is amended to authorize the Use of US Military Force. President Clinton as Commander In Chief Orders 1998 US Military Operation Desert Fox.
It was President Clinton's 1998 Operation Desert Fox that resulted in the US being Condemned as the Great Satan. In retailation Fundamentalist Islamic Osama Bin Laden starts his planning of the 9/11 2001 Attacks against the Great Satan of the same targets of his 1993 First World Trade Center Bombings.
It was because of President Clinton's Belief that the Cold War Era US Defense, US Intelligence Agencies, US Military were no longer needed that President Clinton as Commander In Chief Ordered the chopping of the US Defense Budget, resulting in the US Army Corps of Engineers not having the Funding for their Infrastructure Projects within the US like the Levees at New Orleans before Hurricane Katrina.
President Clinton's Gutting of the US Intelligence Agencies that left the US Blind and Deaf to the Events leading up to the 9/11 2001 Attacks per Bipartisan US Congressional 9/11 Commission Investigations, Findings, and Recommendations with former President Clinton saying "I'm a so sorry".
Due to President Clinton's Cut to the Bone Reduction In Forces of the US Military it took President Bush from 2001 till 2003 to rebuild the US Military to conduct President Clinton's US Policy Overthrow of President Hussein in accordance with President Clinton's US Law H.R.4655 as 2003 Operation Iraqis Freedom.
Not out of context Full Unedited Transcript of President Bush's Mission Accomplished Speech (DO NOT BE LAZY READ THE WHOLE THING):
http://articles.cnn.com/2003-05-01/us/bush.transcript_1_general-franks-major-combat-allies?_s=PM:US
TO THE AUTHOR, THE WAR AT IRAQ STARTED 2001 OPERATION VIKING HAMMER, OPERATION HOTEL CALIFORNIA.
WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION WAS NOT THE REASON FOR THE US GOING INTO IRAQ. President Clinton's US Policy Overthrow President Hussein was, ever since before 1998 US Military Operation Desert Fox.
During the Iran Iraq Wars US Ally Iraq used Chemical Weapons to end the years long Iran Iraq Wars, just like the US use of Nuclear Weapons made the Invasion of Japan unnecessary (saving Millions of Lives on both sides). I keep telling you that US Ally Iraq at that time did NOT have the capability to manufacturer Chemical Weapons; so you figure out where they got them from.
In 2001 Operation Viking Hammer, Operation Hotel California we attacked, seized and secured the Iraqis Chemical Weapons Facility at Sargat Iraq. Those of us that had experience with Chemical Weapons requested authorization to follow the trail, the Iraqis Chemical Weapons possibly evacuated from Iraq to next door Syria, the authorization was denied as not to violate the Soverign Nation of Syria.
Go research these 2001 Operation Viking Hammer, Operation Hotel California, Iraqis Chemical Weapons Facility at Sargat Iraq.
DON'T LET THE FACTS CONFUSE YOUR MINUTE BRAIN, President Clinton's US Law, H.R.4655 "Iraqis Liberation Act of 1998" Section 3 US Policy Overthrow of President Hussein, Section 2 Findings (Justifications) Weapons of Mass Destruction AND:
http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/1057063/posts
THAT'S A DOCUMENTED HISTORICAL FACT, Here we are again PRESIDENT CLINTON; NOT PRESIDENT BUSH.
David "The Twit"
Really? So then when Bush said this on March 20 2003 That He (George W Bush) was lying? So the following was not said by him? David, no offense.. but your out of your F'n mind bro.. good back to sleep... please.. And to top it off you want to call me names? No in fact you are the "twit" as you called me... I should have seen right away once you started name calling that in fact you where just a simple minded buffoon. see ? I can call people names too... now isn't this fun? These are his own WORDS! Read below "Twit"
Published: March 20, 2003
President Bush ordered the start of a war against Iraq on Wednesday night, and American forces poised on the country's southern border and at sea began strikes to disarm the country, including an apparently unsuccessful attempt to kill Saddam Hussein.
Mr. Bush addressed the nation from the Oval Office at 10:15 p.m. Wednesday night, about 45 minutes after the first attacks were reported against an installation in Baghdad where American intelligence believed Mr. Hussein and his top leadership were meeting. ''On my orders, coalition forces have begun striking selected targets of military importance to undermine Saddam Hussein's ability to wage war,'' the president said. (I watched this on TV live by the way)
Speaking deliberately, with a picture of his twin daughters visible behind him, he added, ''These are opening stages of what will be a broad and concerted campaign.''
Mr. Bush sought to tamp down expectations of a quick victory with few casualties by warning that the battles in the days ahead ''could be longer and more difficult than some predict.'' [Transcript, Page A20.]
Here we are again.........David lives in another place called David land.......
I hear ya starsailing Thanks .. Time to move on :)
starsailing to Uranus Here we are again
still no facts starsailing, Here we are again
Just both of you masturbating each other.
Walljasper.....WRONG!....The Iraq war will forever be the legacy of Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeldt cabinet. We now know Bush Cheney lied the nation and world into war just for war profits and for Bush to be known as a "war President, because war presidents are remembered." There were no WMD's in Iraq. This issue has been debunked thousands of times on these blogs. All anyone has to do is a search on "Bush lies nation into Iraq war." The weight of thousands of deaths and thousands of more of our troops wounded, disabled and still dying belong squarely on the shoulders of Bush/Cheney/ and cabinet. Cheney got his War profits in no bid contracts for his company Haliburton. It was just the beginning. Abandoning troops in Afgan creating another death trap for profits....
Yes republicons like war....for war profits, it's good for their business of getting war profits at the cost of our soldiers lives. Just yesterday was another article on how President Nixon committed TREASON when he blew up the peace talks that President LBJ put together to end the Viet Nam War. LBJ had the phones tapped and found out that Nixon persuaded South Viet Nam to not sign. LBJ had told Humphrey about it just days before the elections. Humphrey did not use the info as polls showed he was winning. The day before elections Nixon announced he had a secret plan to end the war and it swung the election in his favor. Nixon then escalated the war at the cost of 22,000 more U.S. Lives....Do search on .....LBJ and Dirksen tapes.
Republicons.....COUNT ON THEIR candidates to commit TREASON when war profits are needed for the rich!
THE BLOOD OF U.S.TROOPS IS ON THEIR HANDS!
WOW
Everyone on this post needs to do search on ......."Bush Lies nation into Iraq war."
All the facts are laid out. You could spend a year reading all the factual sites. You won't find it on Fox fake news.
Also do search on "LBJ and Senator Dirksen tapes." President LBJ had his calls recorded and now all of them can be heard for what is the truth. It clearly shows how Nixon committed TREASON by stopping peace negotiations President LBJ had that was ending the Viet Nam War. NIXON KILLED TWO OF MY BEST FRIENDS BECAUSE HE LIED AND ESCALATED THE WAR INSTEAD!
proof the dope in COLORADO is gooood
These wars were all war on terrorism. Try looking up how many people have been killed by Islamic terrorist. How they were tracked back to Iraq and Afghanistan. Wiki leaks found out that others believed the WMD had been smuggled out. I just watched a youtube video where it showed Iraqi women walking around showing their face saying America didn't do anything but hurt them. Telling how they still don't have power because the tanks pulled down wires going to her house. Telling about how women have to work now. One man telling how he would like to go to France and kill his self. Because Iraq will never be any better. It was meant to make me feel bad for them. But the truth is I never seen so many stupid people in one video. I have seen videos on youtube of people trying to look stupid that wasn't near as effective as these people.
Don't forget the Obama administration trying to extend our stay in these lied wars.
It's all about the oil.
The millions of victims cannot talk or look stupid. What about "Collateral Murder," the film of US helicopter pilots killing unarmed civilians including children. Oh, there were two Reuters photojournalists armed with cameras. Bradley Manning, to me a hero and to you a traitor, revealed the tape and now he's in jail, probably forever. The Nazi trials in Nuremberg sent men to jail and even execution for following inhumane orders. Or do you think those murders were humane? How about the torture of Abu Grahib? Was that necessary too? Waterboarding, which used to be known as Chinese Water Torture, was used on some men hundreds of times. Of course, they confessed, trying to make it stop. Who wouldn't? Even John McCain, who was tortured and knows what he is talking about, said it was torture.
Sad. Afghanistan has no oil and as the article notes we spent 3 trillion in Iraq alone which is more than the value of all Iraq's oil. Funny how many idiots say we did it for the oil but can't say how we benefit by paying the same $100 a barrel to Iraq as we do from Mexico or Canada.
WOW you are so stupid and your brains are diluted with kool aid LBJ made a killing on the Vietnam war look up sea land corporation there where two more also one had to do with electrical power and the other about salvage. LBJ and his wife where major stock holders in all 3 companies. Why do you think that man who sent more troops over to nam was to end the war??? Nixon was at the end of the war and we got out.
Hey star you need to stop the bs your nose is going to grow. Nixon was stopping LBJ peace effort in Viet Nam really how could he do that? Nixon was not in office, what kind of power did he have? I agree that the gulf is a Republick thing, but to try to spin Viet Nam, Korea, WW1 and WW2 on the Republicks, no way. Those which cost us 500,000 dead or more where all started by Dumbocrats.
Starsailor...you probably have no idea what the facts are. You basically have been copying and pasting other's spin on this. Just because a site says something is so, doesn't make it a fact. Copying and pasting doesn't make you knowledgeable on the subject either. Your concept and understanding of what powers the president has is simplistic at best.
milky....U been drinking too much today?.....cutting and pasting with ref twice......and using facts.....and you have something wrong with references given?...DOH!...you just made a worthless crying rant.......Diarrhea of the keyboard...!
Army...really...are you that ignorant you can't do a simple search on LBJ tapes and Nixon committing Treason?....Story was out yesterday again......more tapes released.......FBI tapped the phone......caught him red handed...listen to Repub Sen Dirksen agree that Nixon did it..... on the tapes......released.......TRAITOR NIXON AND CROOK>>>BESIDES MURDERER!
I suppose I should have said resources, my mistake, although I seem to forget it's illegal on the vine to make a human error from time to time.
It does keep our presence in the gulf where that oil mostly gets exported from. Afghanistan also has a lot of mineral resources as well as all of those poppy fields (not to mention the obvious strategic position next to Iran).
Thanks for calling me an idiot, by the way. Glad I can always expect a respectful response from you.
You are a gentleman and a scholar.
Vietnam vs. Iraq: Entered into based on a total lie? Check. Fought for a people who didn't want us there and were against us every minute we fought for them? Check. Never lost a significant battle but didn't eliminate resistance and popular support for that resistance? Check. Left without achieving the goals of the mission? Check. Total waste of enormous amounts of money and tens of thousands of lives? Check.
"If you don't rememeber history, you are doomed to repeat it." Cheney, Rumsfeld and the rest felt that they were too self-important to enlist during VietNam, but they sure like sending the children of working class families off to war so they could fill their pockets (not to mention their off-shore bank accounts) with blood money.
Another quote comes to mind: "Chicken $hit chicken hawks" ! ! !
Obama repeats it now
I think you’ll find that the biggest comparison between Iraq and Vietnam is that the US military is incapable of adjusting itself to the needs of a counter-insurgency war.
Losmuertos
you will find the biggest comparison to the two wars is this, The US was involved BUT choose not to win the war(s) as it was not politically correct.
rocky-2318920
Chose not to win? Seriously? You believe that? I’m guessing your one of those people who favours the maximum force and then leave doctrine, which is all well and good for conventional wars against symmetrical opponents (so like Desert Storm) but those are not what the US faces today (indeed, the conventional phases of Iraq and Afghanistan barely lasted a combined time of 6 months and the US won both with very little casualties) What the US faces today and did in Vietnam is counter-insurgency warfare, which does require a more “politically” correct method of fighting as a counter-insurgency war is different from a conventional war. which unfortunately the US military as proven to be less than adept at adjusting too.
Considering 911 had just occurred, Iraq was a risk at the wrong time. While one can question whether WMDs were in Iraq, there is no disagreement that Saddam Hussein had programs to develop WMDs.
The secondary ideal of the Iraqi war after the elimination of any WMDs was to form the first true democracy in the Muslim world - something that has never be done before. Why is this important? Because it is a scientific fact that democratic nations rarely start wars with one another. So if true democracy could be introduced into the Muslim world, then theoretically we would have a more peaceful world. This was the great gamble of Iraq.
What everyone forgets is that democracy is messy; it always has been and it always will be. Our own democracy (our republic) went through many painful iterations to arrive at our present successful state, including the Civil War, which killed more Americans by far than any other war. Iraq and the Muslim world is going through these same growing pains.
While all of the naysayers are criticizing George Bush and the Iraqi war experiment, we are just seeing the the raw beginnings of a baby democracy. But babies poop, cry and in general are a mess. But still, it is a democracy none-the-less.
History may end up recording 50 years from now that the introduction of democracy to the Muslim world view was the what brought the world peace to over a billion Muslims. Many of these Muslims have spent nearly all of their lives living in a violent, dictatorial, society.
Yes introducing democracy to Iraq was a huge gamble, yes this infant democracy is incredibly messy and unorganized right now, but George Bush was right. Given a taste of freedom, the Iraqi people will never go back to ruthless dictatorship of Saddam Hussein-like rulers.
ALL democracies have been paid for with the blood of patriots. Why would we think that Iraq would be different?
And yet, the Arab Spring and the free Palestinian elections tend to prove otherwise. Egypt's new found "democracy" comes with a side order of police state abuses. Palestinians freely elected Hamas. The Syrian rebels are more hardline fundamentalists than the current regime. So on and so forth.
Democracy is always messy and costly. Try reading a few history books.
You are recycling well worn poop, FL-xyz.
See. Give people poop and they will find cause for war. FL-xyz is your solid evidence.
FL...................TOTAL B.S. After the whole world found out that Bush/Cheney lied the world into Iraq war for war profits...the "democracy" cry was tried by Bush Regime as another excuse....and you are trying to spread that democracy lie again.......BUSH CHENEY FLAT OUT LIED NATION INTO IRAQ WAR FOR WAR PROFITS AND FOR BUSH TO BE REMEMBERED AS A WAR PRESIDENT, his own words..."because War presidents are remembered."
Obama continues war .he obides by bushes timelines.I bet bush planted him
The timeline was already set in stone. Afghanistan withdrawal was set AFTER Bin Laden was killed.
What about Bush-Cheney saying they were not going to attempt nation building? Lie. What about the anthrax letters made to pin on Saddam? Turns out they were from US secret biological weapons labs according to the DNA. How did White House Insiders know to secretly start anti-anthrax antibiotics, which are risky, THREE WEEKS BEFORE the first known threat?????? The first victim, Robert Stevens, had no known connection to the eventual scapegoat, Bruce Ivins. He HAD published a photo of JENNA BUSH, drunk and sitting on another girl's lap. Ivins supposedly committed suicide but was CREMATED WITHOUT AUTOPSY, all before he was even accused. He lacked the equipment to weaponize the anthrax and would have contaminated himself and his lab without it. Why did Rudy Giuliani buy the building where Stevens was contaminated in Boca Raton, Fl?????? Why did Jeb Bush sign a plan for Martial Law in case of terrorism THE WEEK BEFORE 9/11?????? Why did the plane hit the part of the Pentagon where accountants were looking for the $2.3 Trillion Rumsfeld had announced unaccounted for ONE DAY BEFORE 9/11????????
We paid for our democracy with the blood of our patriots. Other countries can pay for their own.
Why were anthrax letters mailed to the 2 Democrats with the power to mount an investigation into 9/11, Leahy and Dashle. It appears it was a warning.
So they died and our govt paid 3 trillion dollars to make sure Iraq was free? I guess you need to tell yourself that it was worth it!
We should NEVER have gone to war in IRAQ or Afghanistan...............NUFF SAID ?
"Was it worth it?" Hmm.
You should ask the families that have their sons, daughters, fathers, mothers, husbands, wives, sisters, brothers buried in Section 60 at Arlington National Cemetery. They spend days graveside, numb to their loss while the rest of the country is content with a yellow ribbon magnet on the back of their cars... (their extent of "support" for this LIE OF A 'WAR')...
As a veteran myself, I tried to raise the flag that this was an INVASION and not a "war"... no one listened. Whose fault is that? The men with the money and the most to gain at Faux Noise? Halliburton and Black Water with their no bid contracts? (and others)... ? Or does the blame rest with a country/society who has been groomed to be in a constant state of war and hungry for the taste of blood?
Because at the end of the day you have to ask: "If war is the answer, what the HELL is the question?"
Not so much "christians" afterall are we?
what is your suppot of the afgan war under OBAMA-too say nothing
Obama is now reducing troop levels and be OUT of Afghanistan within a year.
sure starbuck.The amount of lithium plutonium and gold found by geoligist make each afgany soooo rich.out in a year huh.wanna bet
The date HAS already been set. Do some research.
BOTH were invasions Walljasper1. With over 1,000 military bases in over 134 countries around the World WTH is the US doing? It is UNSUSTAINABLE! Our countrymen go hungry because the military industrial complex is calling the shots, paying congressmen and senators to draft legislation that protects their economic interests... and AND AND they are not paying taxes.
WAKE UP! We are at a crossroads... WTFU! Because if you learn nothing from this thread know this. History ALWAYS repeats. Always.
We get what we deserve as a nation. Due to our constant meddling in the affairs of other nations. It is to bad that the ones who have to pay the price are young naive kids who are pumped full of phony based patriotism that they are protecting our freedom when in fact they the are fighting to feed the egos of politicians and protect the profits of defence contractors. So as a nation we get what we deserve.
The Iraq war was a sham. Foisted on us with deliberate lies by the Bush administration. It was the single biggest foreign policy mistake in the history of our country.
And the cost was far greater than Bush said it would be. They said it would be 50 billion. I saw an estimate recently that included all the cost associated with the wounded and killed US soldiers. 3.7 trillion. Thanks George.
Does anyone really win a war? With all the casualties, can we as a people say we won? Only the defense contractors profit from war, so I guess they would be the winners. Wasn't that called profiteering in the old days? Ask the families of fallen soldiers if their loss was worth all the sacrifices already made and the countless future days of pain, misery and anguish to come.
As a combat veteran, I can honestly say that it never truly goes away, we just try to cope as best we can.
The Obama haters are so incredibly naive and misinformed. Without a way in Iraq, without the Al Queda operating anywhere they damn well please, the drones would not now be in use. The drones keep the boots off of the ground and allow for the US to strike absolute terror into the hearts and minds of the terrorists - an eye for an eye brother and we are winning that campaign. so stop whining because no US troops are in harms way with the exception of Afghanistan and the POTUS will have us out of there in one year. The Bush idiotic experiment with how to have one's own war and become a national hero failed, The Iraq war was a sham, a scam and only the war profiteers maxed their incomes as was the same case against the small country of Vietnam. The Viets under HO were simply looking to self govern and when they asked the US not to allow the French back into their country at the Potsdam conference, they were denied and back came the @!$%# french colonists and the Viets had to throw them out as they did us and later the Chinese. The costs in human lives, medically wounded soldiers and the trillions spent on war machines cannot ever be justified.
The Iraqi vets know they were there to protect each other and the hell with the Iraqi form of democracy. This administration is working hard to create an appropriate medical venue for those troops who suffering from PTSD, et al.
Did you have a friend killed in any of the wars?....Here is a website where you can add stories/bio/pictures to the vet so they will be remembered.
The drones would indeed be in use now. Those plans have been in place long before the 'he's making a nookler bomb' crowd. You cant just call up the drone store and order a dozen...
http://www.vetfriends.com/search.cfm Remember our loss!
$63 billion for domestic drones (Funny how the same people that can't see their way clear to appropriate money for Head Start or food stamps or Social Security which is paid up for a decade, think we can afford whatever requests come from the "defense" department which did so great on 9/11 many of the big wigs got big promotions). My guess is those domestic drones indicate there will soon be plenty of US citizens right here at home who will have their boots IN THE GROUND.
Because we are the USA, we always get involved with other peoples conflicts
yep kind of like in WW2 hey
No, the Iraq was wasn't worth anything. The fact that we finally caught UBL, one could argue Afghanistan and Pakistan have been worth it. However, being a combat veteran-I say hell no, it has not been worth it. To lose the great Americans we have in this war no one man, terrorist or not, is worth any of those men.
being a combat vetran-I say hell no,-------rob your mistakes are many.where did you serve what unit .I got ten bucks says your a REMF
We NEVER should have gotten to Iraq. OBL used Afghanistan as his training grounds, once he was killed, plans were made to start the withdrawal from there also.
Well walljasper1 when it comes to a self proclaimed CON telling me he/she is a combat veteran I would have to see documentation on that. I served in Vietnam, ever hear of it? If your limited education taught you about Nam you would have seen that Republicans did NOT serve in that war....... they ran and hid behind mommy and daddy. Want the list it is quite extensive? One other thing that makes me think you are a BSer, rather than a warrior is you seemingly lack the grasp of basic English which is required by military personnel or at least was. Even a 4 grader puts together better sentences structure and spelling then you do. Now I realize to get Republicans to fight in war they had to lower the standards. But not that low so you probably are a rear with the gear guy, if you served at all.
you sound so stupid ---
Combat engineer /with 2/32nd inf-mech-wacked at basarah.I am sure your a super trooper
I bet you were drafted!
Wow now it is even harder to believe if you say you were a "combat engineer", LOL did you just blow the whistle on your toy train set and call yourself a "combat engineer". You're more likely a 101st keyboard commando, or played too much Call of Duty or SOF in mommies basement. ROFL! Like I said without documentation you're not to be believed.
and the supply clerk speaks again
Al'Queda had a dozen or so training camps in Afghanistan on 9-11 with a few thousand fighters. A few cruise missiles would have ended them. Where would the glory for Bush have been simply doing that? Much more macho to send in the troops.
Hey H8tparty 101st here Viet Nam, agreed the Republick and the Dumbocrats with the exception of little gore who had a body guard with him. And that liar John Kerry served in the Nam. The war if you remember was started by JFK and ramped up under LBJ, and Nixon end it. To me there isn't a bit of difference between the Republicks or the Dumbocrats, and we as Americans get what we deserve when we keep voting for them.
Right on, Army.There is no difference at all when it comes to wars for profit. Obama is every bit as bad as George Bush. He spent the entire 2008 democratic party primary debates complaining about Hillary supporting the war in Iraq, and then he continued it for 3 years., when he could have ended it his 1st day in office.
No that easy to pull out. You would be the first one posting and saying: "Pulling out from Iraq; Pulling out from Afghanistan. See! I told you he is a Muslim" Do you get my drift?
It was only worth it to Halliburton, their stock holders and Cheney
Don't forget Papa Bush and his Carlyle Group. He was in their meeting along with one of Osama bin Laden's brothers at the very time of the 9/11 destruction.
Funny how a little guy like Hani Hanjour (5' tall) overpowered Charles Burlingame (a body builder) and flew Fl 77 right past Don Rumsfeld's office, made an incredible spiral dive at high speed taking out light poles and bullseyed right into the records section (2.3 TRILLION unaccounted for according to Rumsfeld on 9/10/01). Hani was rejected for his poor piloting skills the month before when he tried to rent a CESSNA!
Funny how Osama condemned 9/11 and yet we turned up a video of him bragging about it after we invaded Afghanistan. Unfortunately, the guy in the video does not look like him. Oh well, we were so mad we would believe anything. Funny how Rex Tomb, spokesman for the FBI, admitted in 2006 that there was no concrete evidence to connect Osama to 9/11 and how also in 2006 the FBI reported at the Moussaoui Terror Trial that Barbara Olson's calls to Ted were "connected for 0 seconds." She sure passed on a lot of information, according to Ted, in those ZERO seconds!
The only post that makes sense in whole thread. What is wrong with Americans that are so constantly misinformed, or maybe, conveniently misinformed. I like to know how many of the posters here are aware that nine billions dollars disappeared from a hangar in Iraq. Or that we had 140.000 American soldiers in Iraq, while Erik Prince, Black Water owner, had 120.000 of his civilian army also "deployed" to Iraq. An American civilian Army? Why? The money was good. To make sure they get contracted, Fallujah was thought of. We are a pretty corrupted country.
Is anyone surprised? The United States fights wars all over the world...constantly!! We invade, kill, and waste our own resources and citizens lives all in the name of democracy and freedom.
That's what we do. That's what the human race does, and has always done. Since the beginning of time, we kill each other. It has never changed and never will. There will always be another George Bush, or Obama. There will always be another excuse to justify it.
We are powerless to stop it.
We have over 1000 foreign bases. Romney wanted to increase military spending another 200 billion a year for the military. Apparently enough is never enough for the right.
And Mark don't forget Wilson, FDR, Truman, JFK and LBJ, add them to the list of endless war Presidents.
Larry you can come out from under the bed don't know if you heard, Rommey lost.
Army, saw you mention 101st. I am trying to find a lost brother.. Neil Morrison. Is there a way to find people who where in 101st? I lost track of him about 12 years ago.
Army....,too bad Larry and us others have to remind you rt winger Romney lost! Reality bites huh?
While it wasn't worth a SINGLE American life it was great to see that bastard, hussein, hanging by a rope!!
YA HOO RAH
You know...I wish they would let us grumpy old vets back in...I may not be able to hump like the kids but put me in a hole and I swear you had better keep the ammo coming
youll be fighting all the illegals stealing your stuff soon .buy guns
I don't believe any war fought in my life time was worth anything at all. This may have something to do with the fact that none of them were legally declared by Congress. This country took a serious wrong turn when it started letting presidents start wars without due authority, as specified by the Constitution.
The last war fought for a legitimate reason was WW2 and that was ended 4 years before I was born.
Korea maybe. I like my Samsung Galaxy.
Steve,
You've identified much of the problem, Congressional dereliction of duty. The other part is the fact that we have eliminated the draft and found a way to put the cost on the nation's credit card. The reforms we need are:
1) Mandatory (no exceptions, no deferments) national service for all Americans (male/female) at the completion of High School or reaching age 18.
2) No military action (beyond self defense) without congressional approval.
3) No foreigh combat deployment of US forces without a specific appropriations bill that either raises taxes to pay for it or reduces an equivalent amount in other expenditures.
I'm certain that our government will be far more careful about entering into miltary adventures if we all have skin in the game, our kids and our dollars....