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Subscribe to RSSThis week marks the 10th anniversary of the start of the Iraq War. ITV's John Irvine in Baghdad assesses a country that remains gripped by the violence of its sectarian divide.
When the administration of President George W. Bush planned the invasion of Iraq, hopes ran high that the massive deployment of troops and money wouldn’t just result in the toppling of Saddam Hussein: The United States would help create a country that stood as an example to others.
Ten years ago Tuesday, Bush announced military operations "to disarm Iraq, to free its people and to defend the world from grave danger." He warned that the coalition campaign "could be longer and more difficult than some predict," but vowed to give the Iraqis a "united, stable and free country."
In a speech only weeks earlier, the president had stressed that "a liberated Iraq can show the power of freedom to transform that vital region, by bringing hope and progress into the lives of millions."
In a televised statement to the nation, President George W. Bush announces "early stages of military operations to disarm Iraq."
An estimated $61 billion in U.S. reconstruction funds later, reality has fallen short of these expectations.
An estimated 189,000 people -- including Iraqi civilians, U.S. troops and journalists -- were killed in the war in Iraq since 2003. The country is considered one of the most corrupt in the world, and many of the improvements promised have not materialized. Sectarian tensions regularly explode into open violence.
And yet Iraq is now OPEC’s second-largest oil producer after Saudi Arabia. It is headed toward becoming the world’s second-largest oil exporter after Russia in 20 years. The civil war that raged after the invasion is over, and elections have been held in which Iraqis vote at relatively high rates.
On the 10th anniversary of the invasion of Iraq, NBC News asked Iraqis and experts to assess how life had changed.
Utilities and services
Omar Qais, 34, a private security worker from Baghdad:
In the ten years since guided bombs brought "shock and awe" to Baghdad, almost 4,500 troops and 130,000 Iraqi civilians have been killed and Saddam Hussein has been captured and executed in a mission that has cost nearly $2 trillion. NBC's Richard Engel reports.
“The infrastructure, and the services … were bad, but now it is even worse.”
Mohammad Jabir, 33, unemployed with two children:
“There isn’t ... one good service. It has gone from bad to worse.”
Iraq is a rich country when it comes to natural resources.
“Iraq stands to gain almost $5 trillion in revenues from oil exports over the period to 2035, an annual average of $200 billion and an opportunity to transform the country’s future prospects,” according to the International Energy Agency.
But much of that wealth has yet to trickle down to the population in the form of jobs and services.
Unemployment stands at 15 percent and youth unemployment at 30 percent, according to the United Nations Development Program (UNDP). Twenty-three percent of the population lives in extreme hunger, it adds.
“Iraq faces considerable challenges in sanitation,” according to a 2010 U.N. report. Only 26 percent of household are covered by the public sewage network, it added.
Karim Kadim / AP
Iraqis sift through garbage for recyclable materials at a dump in the Sadr City area of Baghdad, Iraq, on Sunday. According to the manager of the dump, the people who salvage plastic and aluminum make an average of $8 per day re-selling the materials.
About two-thirds of homes depend on the public water supply as their primary source for drinking water, but a quarter of these reported that they got potable water for under two hours per day, according to the Special Inspector General for Iraq Reconstruction’s January 2012 report.
Electricity is the worst-rated service in Iraq, according to the Iraq Knowledge Network, a monitoring system set up by the country’s planning ministry. Households get on average 7.6 hours of electricity from the national grid per day, it said.
Medical services leave much to be desired. In the region, only Yemen has a higher infant mortality rate, for example. Malaria, however, has been almost eliminated, according to the U.N.
Iranian influence
Mahmoud Ali Othman, Kurdish politician and member of the Iraqi National Assembly:
In a speech aboard the USS Abraham Lincoln, President George W. Bush announces that the United States and allies "have prevailed" in military operations in Iraq.
“Maybe Iran has benefited more than any other country from what has happened, and some people even say America handed Iraq to Iran. But don’t forget the Iranian regime has had relations with all the Iraqi political forces when they were in the opposition, so this relation has continued after Saddam was toppled.”
Maria Fantappie, Iraq analyst, International Crisis Group:
“Iran's influence, and that of other powers, is directly proportional to the level of instability of the Iraqi government. Potential for Iranian influence increases the moment there is an unstable situation in Baghdad.”
On March 12, the navies of Iraq and Iran signed an agreement that called for joint drills and more cooperation, according to reports in Iran. This was the latest sign of the deepening links between Baghdad and Tehran, with whom the United States has a hostile relationship.
Khalid Mohammed / AP
Iraqis visit the Shaheed Monument in Baghdad on March 5. Saddam Hussein had the split teardrop-shaped sculpture built in the middle of a man-made lake in the early 1980s to commemorate Iraqis killed in the Iran-Iraq War. The names of hundreds of thousands of fallen Iraqi soldiers are inscribed in simple Arabic script around the base. In recent years, the Shiite-led government has begun turning it into a museum honoring the victims of Saddam's Sunni-dominated but largely secular regime.
And according to reports, Iran helped persuade the government of Nouri al-Maliki to deny American forces judicial immunity against prosecution. Western countries then canceled plans to maintain a military presence in the country after the 2011 withdrawal.
The links go beyond the political and military: Iranian companies are increasing market share in Iraq’s booming economy, and streams of Iranian pilgrims regularly visit the Shiite holy sites in Karbala and Najaf.
This is a far cry from the 1980s, when the two countries fought a war that killed more than a million people.
Rule of law and security
Rawa Naime, head of a local nongovernmental organization:
“Security-wise, it is definitely not better. On the contrary, it is worse.”
March 20, 2003: On a special edition of TODAY, NBC's Katie Couric, Matt Lauer, Jim Miklaszewski and Kerry Sanders report on the first day of the Iraq War.
Peter Batchelor, country director, United Nations Development Program in Iraq:
“Quality of life and access to services in many areas are worse than they were 30 years ago. Violence has dropped, but it is still high enough that it limits people’s access to services.”
Amnesty International Middle East and North Africa Deputy Director Hassiba Hadj Sahraoui:
“Iraq remains caught in a cycle of torture and impunity that should long ago have been broken.”
Toby Dodge, political scientist and expert on the Middle East:
“Iraq’s special forces are in effect the personal coercive tool of its prime minister, his Praetorian guard, used to secure competitive authoritarianism.”
While the numbers of civilian deaths have fallen from the tens of thousands a year seen after the U.S. invasion and in the ensuing civil war, many Iraqis are not safe from acts of terror and sometimes even from their own government.
On Tuesday, car bombs and a suicide blast hit Shiite districts of Baghdad and south of Iraq's capital, killing at least 50 people. And on Thursday, a string of explosions tore through the capital. This was followed by a coordinated raid by gunmen of a government building. At least 24 people were killed, and dozens more were wounded.
The violence comes despite the massive numbers added to the country’s security forces. According to The Brookings Institute, a Washington-based think tank, Iraq’s security forces stood at just under 100,000 in 2003. In 2011 that number had reached 670,000.
Meanwhile, Iraq remains one of the most corrupt countries in the world. According to Transparency International’s widely recognized rankings, the country came 169th out of a list of 176.
There are regional differences. For example, Iraqi Kurdistan, a semi-autonomous region in the north of the country protected under the no-fly zone before 2003, has prospered and been relatively free of violence, although its government has also been rocked by corruption scandals.
Democracy and sectarian tensions
Mohammad Jabir, 33, unemployed with two children:
“Back then, when Saddam was in power, we were oppressed. Now there is freedom. Me as a Shiite, I can practice my rituals, so it is definitely better than before.”
Mohammad Jabir, 33, unemployed with two children:
“Sectarianism is like a slow cancer that is spreading through the Iraqi people.”
Mahmoud Ali Othman, Kurdish politician and member of the Iraqi National Assembly:
One year after the U.S. military pullout, Iraq teeters between statehood and failure. NBC News' Jim Maceda reports.
“The whole government has weak performance because the ministers and the key figures have been appointed on political bases. Qualification comes second. ... This has created a weak performance at the level of the government and at the level of the municipality.”
Rawa Naime, head of a local nongovernmental organization:
“We have suffered from the sectarian violence, especially liberated and cultured women… There are some sides that want the sectarian war that we had in 2006 and 2007 to come back. But there is a section of our society that does not want that to come back. There are those who love peace, who think there is no difference between Sunnis, Shiites, Kurds, Turkomans and Christians.”
Maria Fantappie, Iraq analyst, International Crisis Group:
“The biggest mistake of the 2003 invasion was to understand the country only as composed of three separate communities, without regard to the building of Iraq on the basis of an Iraqi identity."
Under the dictatorship of Saddam Hussein, a Sunni, members of the Shiite and Kurdish communities were violently oppressed (Hussein also oppressed Sunnis). Since the fall of Saddam, the majority Shiites have become the dominant group in society. The government of Shiite Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki has been accused of fomenting sectarian divisions to secure his party’s position in power.
While the sectarian violence that swept Iraq in the wake of the U.S. invasion has receded, there has been a recent increase in deadly attacks against Shiites, the government and security forces. And in recent months, Sunnis throughout the country have staged mass protests to demand fairer treatment from the central government and the release of thousands who they say have been detained illegally.
March 20, 1993: NBC News Special on the first coalition casualties and the first day of the war in Iraq reported by Tom Brokaw, Dennis Murphy and David Bloom.
The unrest is piling pressure on the country's sectarian balance.
And like so much else in Iraq, those inside and out are not sure whether the future will bring the prosperity and peace promised by the Bush White House, or spiraling violence, insecurity and impunity.
When asked to comment for this story, a State Department official said that both Iraq and the U.S. had "made tremendous sacrifices to deliver this new chapter in our relationship, and our energy is squarely focused on the future."
The official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, added:
"I’ll leave the retrospectives to the historians to discuss and the Iraqi and American people to assess. ...
"On Iraqi progress, we understand that many challenges remain in Iraq and that it continues to evolve after decades of isolation and war. It is unrealistic to expect a unified democracy to develop in such a short period of time. Likewise, the evolution that is necessary to resolve the differences found in Iraq will require generational change and a sustained commitment to its democratic and economic development.
"One should not forget to reflect on just how far Iraq has come in a short time. While there have been short-term setbacks, Iraq’s trajectory is positive."
Iraqi government officials did not respond to requests for comment.
NBC News' Jeffrey Ackermann and Catherine Chomiak contributed to this report.
The last 480 troops left Iraq early Sunday morning in high spirits, happy to be heading home for the holidays. NBC's Richard Engel reports.
Related:
Ten years after Iraq invasion, US troops ask: 'Was it worth it?'
Dressing up and heading out: Baghdadis make the most of resurgent social life
Full Iraq coverage from NBC News
This story was originally published on Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:32 AM EDT
Leave a Comment:
The greatest war machine scam for corporate profits. The war put this country into a depression and we lost many great American lives with no meaningful changes to the region. No weapons of mass destruction found and we still piss money away in this giant sht hole of a country.
George Bush can hide his own Easter Eggs next week.
Totally agree
Karma sucks, huh? LOL
This war was a total scam from Bush and Cheney. THERE AREN'T ANY PROJECTS FROM THE US GOING ON THERE. Also, no private companies from the US are investing there, or profiting from anything. Other countries, such as CHINA are already developing profitable companies. France and Germany are doing the same.
The only thing that Bush did was to use our money from social security and medicaid to make a personal profit beyond imagination with the oil. We certainly are not getting cheap OIL, are we? The US is the DUMBEST country in the world for invading Iraq.
The supreme court was the Inquisition of this country, taking it back several hundred years when they decided to make BUSH the President, instead of Al Gore.
PFFT! How nauseating!
HERE IS A LINK FROM NBC YESTERDAY WITH INTERVIEWS ON THE PEOPLE INVOLVED WHO SAY THEY KNEW THE WAR PLANS WERE A LIE AND COULD HAVE STOPPED IT, BUT DIDN'T.
These people could have spoken up and stopped the carnage that was foisted on the world.
http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/03/18/selling-the-iraq-war-experts-knew-the-intel-was-faulty-why-didnt-they-blow-the-whistle/?ocid=msnhp&pos=3
I love what this country is supposed to stand for...but when I think about the lives lost as a result of our incessant military "adventures" around the world, I can understand why so much of the world's population has a different view.
This war was the perfect storm of what is worst in our country. The naiveté of people who think we can proselytize democracy to cultures diverse from our own, the greed of the military-industrial complex and the tiresome hubris of our cowboy mentality has given the world yet another reason to shake their heads at my country.
Ideology can be a good thing but, unrestrained, it can also lead to the faulty judgement of self-talk and group-think. As a country, honestly, I think we need to grow up.
There are reasons beyond the average citizens knowledge as to why we stayed in this war...after his security briefing President Obama changed his tune and decided not to withdraw troops as early as he promised...I'm sure he was enlightened to the threats you and I don't hear about on a daily basis. It's easy to say we should never go to war, but the reality is that there are people out there that want you dead simply because you are from this country....and hold onto your seat because we may be going into another one in the near future....
Then feel free to sign up at your local recruiting station if you're dumb enough to buy the lies that our politicians use to get us into these wars. I, like millions of others here will be protesting. I'll hole up my kid if I have to. They aren't taking my son to fight in a stupid, asinine conflict.
From the beginning, long before the 2003 invasion, I was nearly screaming that this would be a never ending war. I was sure that Bush meant to occupy Iraq forever. Because only an idiot would give Iraq to the Shiites, and thus Iran.
Dead on, Got Aspirin? When the halfwit from Texas (whom I actually voted for in 2000, and was the last time I voted repub after 30 years of it) started beating his war drum in 2002, it was clear he had no solid proof of anything, and should have been clear to the electorate. I sent letters of protest to all of NH's reps and senators right then and there, but to no avail. Little did I know that Judd Gregg would become Bush's lap dog, supporting his every asinine move. Two years later with Iraq and his war in shambles, we had a chance to right the wrong, and the electorate put that walking disaster right back in to office. "I think we need to grow up" says it all.
It was a mistake, Saddam should still be in power. However hindsight is 20/20.
$8B? HOW ABOUT $8T(for for both wars?)!!! In any other country around the world these days these 2 @!$%#s would have been hanged and drug thru the streets.
starsailing: Great link-I hope others read it and check out the videos. Valerie Plame's book should be a mandatory read for high school students. "How a VP can commit treason and get away with it;" could be the title of the course. It's an infuriating, page turner of a read. This woman got seriously shafted and we lost a smart, committed patriot of a CIA agent.
We removed the brutal strong man who kept Kurds, Sunnis and Shiites bound into a single nation. If you're surprised that the result is a corrupt, Balkinized, quasi-nation, beset with constant ethnic violence and corruption, than your foresight qualifies you as legally blind.
The first question that should be asked before a nation begins a war, declared or otherwise, is why.
The second question is how.
The Bush administration cooked up a ridiculous lie to answer the question of why, and I don't think ever wondered about how, until they were up to their arm pits in a quagmire.
Mission Accomplished!
@tbrownjt - I also was debating with everyone who would listen (and more who would not) that invading Iraq was a bad idea...that it would end up being an endless war...
Yes, I voted for him too...the first time and then I immediately regretted it. When he was re-elected I felt the exact same way I felt the day that OJ was acquitted...
Yeah. It's called REGIME CHANGE, dman. And it's NOT as if we haven't been around this block before either, with disastrous results at that. Many happy returns, eh?
But the Obama Administration is doing the exact same thing now, dman. Our intervention in Syria is the latest BLATANT example. Notice how they use the fluffy terms " humanitarian aid" and "non-lethal assistance" when they address our involvement there. Think there's a reason for that? Hmmmmmmm?
What the heck do you REALLY think is going on over there - that our covert ops are there just to sit and look pretty?
Couldn't agree more with you. The only thing we accomplished there was robbing this country's oil supply. We dump billions of dollars on this country, which funnels only to those in power there, then part funnels back to world leaders including the USA. That's why the common citizens there are still hungry, no jobs, no food, no healthcare, etc. What a shame. But then again, we (USA) have no shame. The only thing we have is greed and we take what we want, by force if necessary.
Nothing we did over there will make a difference. They have been fighting there since the dawn of time and they will never change.
Iran is the next disaster if we let Israel drag us into this mess. The ultimatum should be set, end the nuclear program or we will give Israel the greenlight to nuke the sites. They can handle that just fine and everyone will be much safer in the long run........
Don't blame Bush, blame the Iraqis who can't handle the idea of a rights based democracy. Before the war, the US was accused of supporting ruthless dictators in the middle east. Then came Iraq. If you want to see real atrocities just google the atrocities of Saddam Hussein. When the regime was toppled they found a large collection of torture and snuff videos made for the dictators viewing pleasure. There were videos of people with tongues cut off by razors, or tied to posts and whipped, bones broken with iron rods, people thrown blindfolded from tall buildings, acid drip chambers for the slow sizzle, hands fingers and heads chopped with swords in front of eager spectators chanting blood thirsty slogans.
So, Saddam was better in your minds?
America gained nothing from this war but the elimination of a despot and an experiment in trying to help help a country become a sane ally. The goal was to create a beneficial trading partner, but the result was a bigotted sectarian state full of whiners and shoe throwers.
America left it to the Iraqis to form their own state, providing 'security', and offering financing the best they could, but leaving it to the people to build, much like Japan and Germany after World War II. The Iraqis chose instead to slide into medieval sectarian warfare and terrorism. It goes to show that ruthless dictators or religious control are the appropriate option for middle eastern peoples.
Now America is blamed for NOT intervening in Syria. But after the Islamic brotherhood took over in Egypt, and the assassination of the ambassador in Libya, there is Little incentive to be blamed for another fail that is inevitable. Let the intervention of Iran, Russia, and Hezbollah be the source of this fail. Another despotic dictator or religion will surely emerge in the rubble of the Syrian conflict.
If Saddam was not overthrown then Uday or Qusay would fall in line as the next despotic ruler...imagine that! Is that what you all support? Then so be it
Bush is not to blame, nor the soldiers who lost their lives in the effort, nor the American taxpayers who footed the bill...it is the Iraqis themselves for deliberately wasting the opportunity to build something new and better from the ashes.
IRESPOND - another comment collapsed for no reason.
I have the same filing, after 4 years with Obama , I had to much hope that Obama will bring changes, a transparent Government, more open a different president, but after 4 years I understood that he is just another politician, my last disappointment was his handling of Benghazi, members of Congress just found 30 more survivors hiding by this administration.
ACacique
Couldn't agree more with you. The only thing we accomplished there was robbing this country's oil supply you have any probe, or just parroting like a ignorant low informed voter. How many barrels of oil we got from Iraq, can you answer that simpe question.
For those that say nothing we did in Iraq made a difference, well since WWII what military action by the US has? Vietnam made no difference and the losses were far greater then any other military endeavor since. Afghanistan won't either. The way we cut and ran from Iraq after Biden failed in negotiations made it even worse. With Obama announcing when we will be out of Afghanistan, you can count the days before that region returns to chaos. Good intentions and reality don't often align in war, or politics.
In 2003, as my coworkers gathered anxiously around the TV to watch the Shock-and-Awe campaign begin, I remember asking the question, "What if they go into Iraq and they don't find any WMDs?" My question was derisively dismissed by my boss. I sincerely thought that it would result in a huge political storm where people's heads would role. Nope. 10 years later, we all know we were lied to, but no one has been held accountable for it. Trillions of dollars, hundreds of thousands of lives (the estimate in the article is LOW), and nothing to show for it but a SEMI-stable source of oil for the foreseeable future.
If the WMD never exist , why this government is so worrie that Assad could use those weapons against the rebels. Saddam send his WMD to Syria, before American forces went ti Iraq, we also found yellow cake that was sent to Canada. Yes there was not WMD at the time we invade Iraq but it doesn't mean that never exist, actually it was used against their own population , the Kurds. Bush work the the same intel that the CIA gather for Clinton, this is why Hillary Clinton support the invasion along with the majority of Democrats.
The Iraq war: 10 years later. Well just ask any combat soldier with ptsd or tbi and see what they tell you. Bush left the White House clean, but take a visit to Walter Reed sometime and you might see a different story.
Impeach Bush Cheney Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld. They are responsible for destroying the future of an entire generation of millions of Iraqis on totally false claims. They are Nazi equivalents .. only dumber.
Rick........you just failed to transfer the shame of Iraq war onto Vice President Biden. Your daily denial of reality in order to paint a rosy picture on the crazyness of the republicon party actions, and in this case, the complete denial of culpabilty in the destruction of our economy and lives of our troops, shows no endless bounds. Go for a walk and get some fresh air...you need it.
Architects and engineers for 911 truth- youtube video. This is for those on either side of the isle.
The destruction of our economy was not because the war in Iraq, actually Obama said, there debt is not a treat to our economy. The destruction of our economy was the House market, originated by demands fro the left to borrow money for people that couldn't afford to pay they bills, and for lower the bar for mortgages to promote the "American Dream ". Barney Franks and Chris Dodd are responsible but they throw the rock and hide their hand, that is the hypocrisy of Democrats and the left that control the congress during the time of the collapse. Democrat Congress and Bush administration are responsible alike.
The Iraq war is still of great benefit to infinitely greedy, weapons dealing, war profiteering, monetary system monopolizing ZIONAZI pigs. Wake up America, demand justice for war criminals, or our whole nation will deserve what the few deserve, A Nuremberg like trial and the death penalty.
@ Charles:
Saddam was ok with our leaders, as long as he was OUR dictator.
Our government gave Saddam a pass on many brutal things he did, as long as he played ball with us.
The Kurds were gassed in the mid/late 80's, and the US did NOTHING about it. We might have even supplied the weapons, with the intent for Saddam to deter Iran.
Once Saddam was going to take Iraqi oil off of the $, and switch to Euros, THEN our leaders(and their corporate masters), decide to rush in and "save" Iraq.
They cared nothing for helping the Kurds at the time of the slaughter. it was only when our $$ interests were in jeopardy, that they decided to be the "good guys".
9/11 was the perfect excuse, fired up by anger, to try and justify an invasion.
As bad as Saddam was, he was skilled at keeping Iran in check, and terrorists from running amok in Iraq.
There are dictators that have done, and are doing worse, yet we don't go rush in to "save" their people.
We only do so if we believe it's profitable to us.
We were duped.
And then, Americans, as a whole, became arrogant.
We didn't pay for the war we started.
We were gifted with derivatives, and lowered regulations....so we spent like lunatics.
Our government lowered our taxes and told us to go out & spend.
But we didn't prepare Walter Reed Hospital for the wounded...or send our combat kids to a war with proper equipment. Only a small percentage of us even fought.
And we became more bigoted in the name of becoming more "christian".
In the end, we brought a 3rd party to or system, and more debt, and division...and mis-trust.
It was.... not... worth...it.
Happy anniversary, guys!!!
Red ...once again anothger rt winger in denial...Bush didn't even put the cost of war on his tab....trying to make a budget look better.....skids of millions of dollars disappear and Republicon sen Coleman never investigated any of it. All projects blown up as or after being built in Iraq, all of that money could have been used here in the U.S. The cost of all those lives, and the costs of the wounded and dying, forever and ever, helped to crash the economy....but of course when Bush was president, deficits didn't matter.....Now you try and say they do........like a weather vane blowing in the wind.......whatever you are paid to say isn't enough to revise history......the rest of us live in reality....come join us!
If that's the case then we certainly shouldn't have been there. Even if he had these weapons when we were there (and I know that he did have some biological weapons at some point) they were little threat to our national security. We could have handled the situation without sending our people to die and without slaughtering 100,000 Iraqi civilians in the process.
More right wing garbage from redvirginia. And of course that good old, republikan selective memory. I can remember at least two speeches made by the idiot Bush talking about how all Americans should have the ability to own their own house. It was a big thing for him. And the guys on wall street packaging these questionable mortgages as collateral for securities? Nobody twisted their arms to perpetrate a housing bubble of ridiculous proportions. Gee, they must have all been democrats, right redvirginia? And there's that selective memory again. So convenient to completely forget that, disastrously, we had a republikan Senate, a republikan House and a republikan President, a solid republikan government, form 2000 until 2006. That didn't contribute at all, right redvirginia?
You need some classes of interpretation. Bush wish everybody own their house, I do too,. But from there to lower the bar ,to provide houses that people can't afford, and ignore the warning lights from Fannie wen it was at a brink to collapse, like Barney Franks did, it is a big difference. Community organizers and left wing politics demand base on race and discrimination lower the bar for mortgages, bringing the Sub-prime mortgage debacle.
Never give to those who are not willing to shed blood, sweat or tears for it themselves...whether it be Democracy or money.
In the end...it will be taken for granted and you will be despised.
So NBC writes yet another 'anti-Bush' article, making sure they only quoted people who would criticize what happened.
No surprise.
Next will come a 'pro-Obama' article about how things have gotten so much better since Obama was elected.
Roy Wilson- you write correctly. The left-wing proaganda machine is in full-tilt today.
Yes, it is sad that we lost almost 4,500 Americans in the Iraq war, while accomplishing little, but we lost more than 58,000 troops in Vietnam and had more than 300,000 casualties - virtually all under Democratic Presidents (Lyndon Johnson and Jack Kennedy), and we gained NOTHING from that conflict.
Is English your second language RedVirginia?
starsailing "Red ...once again anothger rt winger in denial...Bush didn't even put the cost of war on his tab....trying to make a budget look better."
So when Bush did it, it was 'deceptive', but when Obama did the same thing, it was good?
Both of them used 'Additional Appropriations Requests' to fund the wars - as the following link shows, where Obama asked for more war funds 2 months AFTER he signed the 2009 Budget in early March 2009;
http://vcnv.org/president-obamas-war-budget-analyzing-the-numbers
By the way - these were merely Budget requests (estimates of costs) - the actual costs WERE included in final spending under both Presidents for each year, despite silly claims by the ignorant about how the government funds their operations.
"Barking of machinegun fire, does nothing to me now
Sounding of the clock that ticks, get used to it somehow
More a man, more stripes you wear, glory seeker trends
Bodies fill the fields I see
The slaughter never ends
Soldier boy, made of clay
Now an empty shell
Twenty one, only son
But he served us well
Bred to kill, not to care
Just do as we say
Finished here, Greeting Death
He's yours to take away
Back to the front
You will do what I say, when I say
Back to the front
You will die when I say, you must die
Back to the front
You coward
You servant
You blindman
Why, Am I dying?
Kill, have no fear
Lie, live off lying
Hell, Hell is here
I was born for dying...
Roy.......ever the spinner........kinda forgot Bush and Cheney saying Iraq oil was going to fund the war...how's that working out for you? Meanwhile republicons fund big oil with subsidies to the tune of billions and billions when big oil executives testify they did not need it!
Also forgot to comment on the story of the release of more of LBJ tapes yesterday which show Nixon committed treason.
LBJ had the South Viet Nam ambassadors phones tapped and Nixon was able to get the South Vietnamese to not sign the treaty they had all agreed to...Nixon was going to get them a better deal if he was elected.
LBJ was not able to announce the end of the war and Nixon the day before elections announced he had a secret plan to end the war. This made many change to vote for Nixon thinking he was going to end the war. Instead he escalated the war killing another 22,000 plus soldiers and losing all of S. Viet Nam.
Simply do search on LBJ tapes Nixon Treason. Have a nice day spinning Roy!
Has Obama brought hope and change? LOTS of change but very little hope from this perspective. Well, I hope to be able to survive the next 4 years and all the financial crap coming our way.
I thought Obama ended the war. Oops. He supports the fascist Muslim brotherhood and its mistreatment of women. Hey and gas prices doubled during his administration. He must be in the pocket of big oil! And didn't he increase the number of troops in Afghanistan by 30k? The hope and change he has brought to the middle east is a disaster. Not Bush's fault that he free the Iraqis only to have a weak and impotent president Obama unravel all progress for Democracy.
Did the Iraq invasion bring us Hope & progress as GWB Vowed, Well - I would say this war of WMD ?, Killed & Mangled over one Million Americans and Bankrupt or Nation, for what ? So George Rambo could make a blood bath on a "lie" and Billions & Billions & Billions in foreign aid and at the end of the day they will stab us in the back, very smart !!!
This article is another liberal bias report full of baloney meant to place blame on a person who has been out of office for OVER FOUR YEARS. This is Obamas foreign policy and Benghazi is Obama's mistake. Cannot believe the liberal media arm of Obama's administration is at work deflecting the blame onto Bush for Obama's inept presidency.
it doesn't appear that reality beyond your partisan view of it, is a place you visit often.
The real war on women is Obama's true religion and friendship with the Muslim Brotherhood. How much money did Obama just give Egypt? Supporting what? Hatred against Americans.
Valerie-2245184 "I thought Obama ended the war. Oops. He supports the fascist Muslim brotherhood and its mistreatment of women. Hey and gas prices doubled during his administration. He must be in the pocket of big oil! And didn't he increase the number of troops in Afghanistan by 30k?"
Interestingly, the number of American war deaths in Afghanistan averaged only about 66 per year for the 8 years under Bush, but have averaged over 400 per year under Obama and his 'surge'.
After the Afghan war is over, I doubt that NBC will write an article asking 'Was it worth it?'
Here's an interesting statistic;
Over the last 100 years, we have had over 600,000 American war deaths, and over 96% of them occurred under Democratic Presidents.
Perhaps Republicans are just better at 'preventing' wars with a realistic foreign policy, as opposed to the 'naive' policies of Democratic Presidents.
HMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.
"It's all GWB's Fault" !!!
"This is all the GOP's Fault, they stood by and watched Rambo George Destroy our Country !!!
This is history and proof positive that the Republican Party led by their choice, George "Curveball" Bush, lied to the American People, lied to Congress, lied us into war, killed hundreds of thousands of people, and still, to this very day, is the biggest failure in the history of the United States.
Personally, the Bushes are one of the richest families in the world because of the Iraq War which enabled them to acquire oil fields in Iraq that Bush had bragged was only 10% explored for oil, and clearly NONE of the trillions of dollars is being spent on Iraqi infrastructure, or the Iraqi People themselves even though it's their oil.
I remember Bush denying other countries entry into Iraq because Bush said "to the victors goes the spoils" but none of us have seen any of those "spoils" and neither have the Iraqi people who Bush claimed he would "free".
So, where are those "spoils of war"? No amount of money from Iraqi Oil Revenues have gone to pay for that war as Bush had promised, and as many of us can recall, at least a billion American dollars was reported by the Bush Administration to have gone missing somewhere on the streets of Iraq.
The almost hundred Million Too Expensive Overpaid Fair and Living Wage Greedy Selfish US Civilians employed directly or indirectly by US Defense are the only ones that profitted. While we (US Military) get f**ked by getting obsolete US Military Equipment, just so that US Civilians can have Contract Delays and Manufacturing Delays so that they have jobs for longer.
Replace all the Too Expensive US Civilians employed by the US Military with below minimum wages US Military Personnel to get a more than 50% US Military Budget Cut. No more Extremely expensive US Civilians of the US Contractors, no more US Contractors, give back all the Jobs previously done by the US Military Personnel:Personnel Administration;Logistics;Supply; Sea Air Land Transportation; Sanitation (Waste Disposal, Bathing Facilities (doubles as Decontamination), Water Purification, Laundry Services, etc.);Food Service;Maintenance of Aircraft, Ships, Weapons Systems, Vehicles, Facilities, etc..
Nope. President Clinton's Removal of those US Laws that made Illegal those Causes of previous Depressions resulting in the current $60 Trillion to $100 Trillion Global Economic Crisis consisting of the Mortgage Crisis, Wall Street Crisis, Financial Crisis, Banking Crisis, Credit Crisis, etc..
Because you and the dumbarse Politicians still refuse to recognize that there are three distinct and separate people at Iraq:
Iraqis: Arabs, Language Arabic, Sunnis
Kurdistanis: Indo Europeans, Language their form of Farsi, Shia (Fundamentalist Islam). Previously the armed Allies of the Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran; fighting Turkey, Syria, Iraq, sometimes Iran for land to form Kurdistan, since the Treaty of Luasanne.
Shai of Iraq: Persians, Language Farsi, Shia (Fundamentalist Islam). Many fled to Iraq as Illegal Aliens after the massive Unemployment after the Fall of the Shah of Iran. Usually, used to do those jobs that the Iraqis refused to do, previously just like the Illegal Aliens at the US not given Citizens Rights Benefits and Entitlements at the expense of Iraqis Citizens.
Iranians: Persians, Language Farsi, Shia (Fundamentalist Islam). Previously, continously at War with Iraq. Demanded the US get Kicked out of Iraq as NO More Negotiations with President Obama nor SOS Clinton especially a Status of Forces Agreement, President Obama's Failed US Policies allowed this to happen.
Research 2001 Operation Viking Hammer, Operation Hotel California, Iraqis Chemical Weapons Facility at Sargat Iraq. Those involved believed that the Iraqis Chemical Weapons were removed and transported to next door Syria.
The Whole Iraqis Mission was NOT because of Weapons of Mass Destruction; but, by US Law US Policy Overthrow of President Hussein.
READ THE LINKS BELOW, DOCUMENTED HISTORICAL FACTS:
US Policy Overthrow of President Hussein, Weapons of Mass Destruction, US Support of Holy Warriors of Islam at Bosnia, etc.
http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1998/01/27/sotu/transcripts/clinton/
US Law, H.R.4655, Section 3 US Policy Overthrow of President Hussein. Later amended to authorize the Use of US Military Force.
http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/1057063/posts
US Policy Overthrow of President Hussein, US Military Mission Accomplished.
http://articles.cnn.com/2003-05-01/us/bush.transcript_1_general-franks-major-combat-allies?_s=PM:US
Nope. Due to President Obama's Failed Foreign Policies the US Got KICKED OUT of Iraq, just like the Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran wanted, Resulting in their Allies the Chinese and Russian Federation getting all the Iraqis Oil that could have paid for the US And US Allies Liberation of Iraq with Decades to Centuries of Iraqis Oil. The Loss of the Iraqis Oil made the US Ally Libyan Oil of Strategic Importance to the US European Allies, President Obama was already outsmarted as the Holy Warriors of Islam supported by the Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran had already taken over US Ally Egypt and were attacking US Ally Libya.
US Ally Saudi Arabia, "President Obama gave Iraq to Iran as a Gift on a Golden Platter". US Ally Saudi Arabia is pissed because now they have an Iranian Controlled Nation on their Northern Border.
Same crap happening here, the Afghan Citizens Voted for and got President Karzai. In the case of Iraq, the Iraqis Citizens voted for a Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Government with close ties to the Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran. And like I mentioned above, it was because the US Citizens and the US Politicians FAILED to realize that the Shia of Iraq were NOT actual Iraqis; but, most were actually Illegal Aliens from Iran, so typical Western mentality, they gave the Shia of Iraq Iraqis Citizens Rights so of course they would vote in a Iraqis Government that was Pro Iranian.
Yes, this is the FIRST time I ever agreed with you on anything, at least part of your post.
Of the almost thousand of us, the few dozen of us that survived since the US Military Training Teams to US Ally Iraq during the Iran Iraq Wars, rotated to Operation Cyclone, knew President Hussein as the Counterbalance to the Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran using his Iraqis Oil Wealth (Not US Taxpayer Money) and the lives of the Iraqis Citizens of the Iraqis Military (Not our US Citizens of the US Military lives).
wrong party, that was President Clinton demanding that US Congress by US Law require US Financial Institutions provide Loans (Mortgages) to those without a viable means to repay those Loans (Mortgages). Let me know when you find out the title of that US Law and have actually read all of the US Law, LOL.
Don't worry they are too ignorant to figure out that President Obama started the Syrian Situation with his Failed Foreign Policies.
That the US Military is still conducting Combat Patrols outside the wire to prevent snipers, bombers, rockets, mortar attacks of the $1 Billion US Embassy Iraq 104 Acres, and that it costs $1 Billion a year to operate most US Embassies.
And that President Obama ever since August 2009 sent in a hundred thousand too expensive overpaid (paid by US Taxpayers) US Civilians to Iraq, and another hundred thousand to here, and they are still at Iraq making money hand over fist at US Citizen's expense (decreased Benefits and Entitlements at US for US Citizens, and paid for directly by US Taxpayers).
Does it matter, are you another hipocrite racist liberal?
The Iraq war brought us Hope and Progress just as much as Obama has brought us Hope and Change. It's time to get on board with the third option.
TO: ROY WILSON-336103 who wrote:
Missed taking your meds this morning?
Republicans policy is "preemptive strikes" against any country the GOP thinks might not like the idea of a U.S. invasion, more particularly, any foreign country that has an abundant oil supply.
You can't name even 1 Democratic President that ever started one single war in the past 100 years, or 1 Democratic President that ever ordered a preemptive strike against an oil rich country, or 1 Democratic President that ever lied the United States into war based on purely fraudulent evidence.
What a liar.
American Girl-724855 "Personally, the Bushes are one of the richest families in the world because of the Iraq War which enabled them to acquire oil fields in Iraq"
Really? Do you REALLY think that Bush personally owns oil fields in Iraq? Of course you have a reliable link as proof, right?
Hey, I have some great swamp - er, 'waterfront' land I'd like to sell you - sight unseen. It would make a great 'investment'.
PS - World War 1 - our involvement started under Woodrow Wilson, a Democrat. World War 2 - our involvement started under FDR, a Democrat. The Vietnam War started under Jack Kennedy, a Democrat, and greatly accelerated under Lyndon Johnson, a Democrat. Did YOU miss your meds this morning?
It was well worth the price. Thanks to poor people dying, we know where all the oil and precious minerals are. Now we can send in the Corporate Plunderers to steal their Democratic resources and give themselves nice fat bonuses. All while you cry about your dead family members. Shut up and show your patriotism before I call the NSA and tell them you're a terrorist.
The third option would be to send the TeaCrazies to the moon, just saying !!!
For #1.58, From Angry Bird !!!
It's pretty easy to keep troop deaths low when he only placed them there to position them for the Iraqi invasion Bush was going for in the first place.
Contrary to what you may think, when you actively engage the enemy, more people die versus just sending us there to simply give up getting Bin Laden when his self proclaimed "Holy War" came to fruition.
Were you in Afghanistan when Bush took valuable troops and equipment to go fight his war of choice? Were you there when Bush said the mastermind of 9/11 was no longer of any concern? If that was the case, why didn't he pull completely out of Afghanistan? Guess it's easier to move the troops where you wanted them all along when they are on the same continent.
Now compare the number of troops lost in Iraq under both Bush and Obama. Wait, you can't do that. It would put Obama in a better light than Bush, correct?
Had Bush focused on our task at hand, we would have been out of Afghanistan before his first term ended. That doesn't feed the military industrial complex though, does it?
Interestingly, Haliburton was working under several umbrellas to gain more no bids than any other parent company over there. Remind me again of what former politician had very close ties to Haliburton.
American Girl-724855
RE: Post #1.60 - I forgot to mention the Korean War, that started under Harry Truman, a Democrat.
NYMike "Now compare the number of troops lost in Iraq under both Bush and Obama."
The Iraqi conflict was essentially over under Bush, so what would be the point?
Interestingly, it was the Bush 'Status of Forces' agreement with Iraq that ended the conflict. Here's a quote from Wikipedia;
"The U.S.–Iraq Status of Forces Agreement (official name: "Agreement Between the United States of America and the Republic of Iraq On the Withdrawal of United States Forces from Iraq and the Organization of Their Activities during Their Temporary Presence in Iraq") was a status of forces agreement (SOFA) between Iraq and the United States, signed by President George W. Bush in 2008. It established that U.S. combat forces would withdraw from Iraqi cities by June 30, 2009, and all U.S. forces will be completely out of Iraq by December 31, 2011."
Obama tried to change that agreement to keep American troops in Iraq after 2011, but the Iraqi government said "No thanks - we'll stick with the agreement we made with Bush".
Of course, Obama tried to take credit for ending the war.
Republicons cry for hope and change...then when President Obama tries to deliver it..the republicons pledge to vote and obstruct against him and America.......DOHHH!!!! Then they complain President Obama didn't deliver it for them...after they spent 4 years trying to stop what they are complaining they didn't get!!!.....DOH!.....
American Lady, #1.55, That Billion dollars in cash that GWB dumped on Iraq streets gone missing is probably on the Bush ranch !!!
This article brought to you by the Bush haters of the United States. Real truth is that 15% unemployment is MUCH better than many, many countries right now. All of the "Attack Iraq...No" cry babies claimed that this was about oil, well, the war is over and have we profited somehow? No. Flush that thought.
Just yesterday, a major oil industry player in the US said that we are only possible ten tears away from taking the #1 spot from Russia for being the world's top oil exporter and the US being completely self sustainable when it comes to gas and oil, thanks to new drilling tech here that is allowing us to tap more sources.
The Iraq war was about toppling a wickedly cruel leader that tortured his fellow countrymen and hated the United States. It was also about preventing him from getting the needed hardware to hurt the US and it's allies. A job well done. Were lives lost? Yes, sadly. Was getting rid of Hussein a great thing? For sure! Just ask the Iraqi's. If the Iraqi people cannot find a way to take advantage of their freedom through the democratic process then THEY failed, not us. You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink.
Not a Bush fan myself but please stop the crying and blaming. I have friends that served over there and the Iraqi people WANTED US THERE!!
And just how much is OBAMA wasting daily for his 47%? How about his foreign aid to muslims? How about 2B for Egypt so they can kill our Ambassador? How about sending Egypt F16 and Abrams 1 tanks so they can attack Israel?
Isn't it interesting that Reagan accomplished so much by working with a Democratic Congress, and Clinton accomplished so much by working with a Republican Congress, but Obama doesn't seem to be able to get much done, even though he had a Democratic Congress for his first 2 years, and he has had a Democratic Senate for all of his 4 years?
Perhaps if he actually TRIED to work with the Republicans in the House instead of ignoring them and then use them as an excuse for his lack of progress.
Obama got his 'tax increase on the rich' (courtesy of the Republicans), so perhaps he should try actually addressing the entitlement spending problem instead of just repeating his 'mantra' - "I need more tax increases to spend in 'investments' ".
David,
The reason you have so many "contractors" associated with services formerly provided by US military members is because of the so called "Peace Dividends" dreamed up by liberal left presidents like Carter, and Clinton! The US military used to be almost 100% self sufficient until they were forced to cut budgets and decide how to support the combat troops without the extra support personnel. To this day 80% of the Defense budget goes to pay, benefits, and direct support to members of our military and their families and the pay they receive is less than some kids make at McDonald's. Considering the sacrifices these men and women make, they should earn much more. If you want to reduce the defense budget and the military machine in general, than you must reduce the commitments that are made for them to carry out!
Roy Wilson,
You can talk until your blue in the face but the " anti everything conservative " liberals will never listen, even if you back it all up with facts!!! There are many unanswered questions from the Iraq war that we will probably not see answers to for another forty years or so, but that doesn't make what happened in Iraq wrong. I laugh at some of these people who post because they don't even have 20/20 hindsight! They've made up their minds about what happened and why based on biased reporting and faulty recollections of politicians. Half are probably to young to remember what brought it all about. Some were newborns in 1991 when the whole thing started and yet claim to be experts on how things happened.
Obama is giving 250 millions to Egypt, 60 millions to Syria from our money , but the White House is close to the American public. It is not stupid?.
Mitko Pitko "And just how much is OBAMA wasting daily for his 47%?"
The cost of 'welfare' (food stamps, cash aid, Medicaid, etc') is about $735 Billion per year, which accounts for almost 70% of the 2012 Deficit of $1.1 Trillion.
Presidential address to America
Good Evening
"Earlier today, I ordered America's armed forces to strike military and security targets in Iraq. They are joined by British forces. Their mission is to attack Iraq's NUCLEAR, CHEMICAL AND BIOLOGICAL WEAPONS PROGRAMS and its military capacity to threaten its neighbors."
"Their purpose is to prtect the NATIONAL INTEREST OF THE UNITED STATES, and the interests of people throughout the Middle East and around the world.""Saddam Hussein must not be allowed to threaten his neighbors or the world with NUCLEAR ARMS, POISON GAS OR BIOLOGICAL WEAPONS."
I want to explain why I have decided, with the UNAMIMOUS recommendation of my NATIONAL SECURTIY TEAM, to use force in Iraq......"
You can read the rest for yourself. Just google "President Clinton Dec 1998 war iraq"
We had eight years of an administration telling us that Saddam had WMD's and had to be stopped. Every liberal in this country sat by and agreed with him. Even uncle Ted Kennedy talked about the WMD's. Then 9/11 comes and the majority our elected leaders finally did sometning about Saddam. When peole started dying the libs started their BS about the lies of WMD's and blamed Bush. It hasn't stopped. You libs make me sick!
Now you libs think that the wife of the President who lied to us for 8 years would make a good president? Don't you remember how she gave a vey impassioned speech saying that she fully understood the reasons for taking out Saddam? She voted for war with Iraq. But I bet becuase she is a Clinton it doesn't matter that she is a liar. It runs in the family.
Frosty Ross,
Dead on refreshingly accurate post! Good Job seeing the truth. People don't seem to remember our own history to well and what it took the US to come to terms with itself after we won our independence from England. Ten years of peaceful effort, by a group of individuals all with the same goal in mind, after the end of the revolutionary war, before they arrived at a document that all would agree to and sign. Our current constitution and Bill of Rights! That in and of itself is overlooked because even after the Constitution was hammered out, the Bill of Rights, the first ten amendments had to be added to get everyone on board to sign it! Those first ten amendments were added in response to concerns that the freedoms so dearly won could be easily undone without them. Iraq isn't through their first ten years yet since the fighting ended and they are still trying to address the needs of their people much like we did 200+ years ago. Now it is more complicated than ever because as a race, human beings with all their technology and interdependence on governments are actually worse off than the rugged individuals and entrepreneurs that made up our population during the late 1700's and early 1800's.
No, the Iraqi people wanted us there during Desert Storm. Then HW cut a deal with Sadam and we cut out on our Kurdish and other helpers. Left them to be tortured, jailed and shot. They got a big dose of American Backstabbing, and they paid the price. I wouldn't trust us either after that.
In 2005, Dick Cheney's Haliburton stock rose from being worth $1.2 million to over $120 Million. That simple fact alone should illuminate the subject for all those still laboring with the idea that this war was fought for high ideals. Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld and the rest are war criminals and should be handed over to the Hague, or at least tried here in this country for treason and high crimes against the nation. Every day in Bagdad over 50 people die from car bombings. That is what we left behind. Yes Saddam was a pig, blah, blah, blah, but the only people who profited from this endeavor were the friends and business associates of the Bush Cheney Administration.
In 2005, Dick Cheney's Haliburton stock rose from being worth $1.2 million to over $120 Million. That simple fact alone should illuminate the subject for all those still laboring with the idea that this war was fought for high ideals. Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld and the rest are war criminals and should be handed over to the Hague, or at least tried here in this country for treason and high crimes against the nation. Every day in Bagdad over 50 people die from car bombings. That is what we left behind. Yes Saddam was a pig, blah, blah, blah, but the only people who profited from this endeavor were the friends and business associates of the Bush-Cheney Administration, and when the left office the country's financial system went belly up because of their treasury looting schemes.
trust2112
I believe the mandate from the UN to HW was to get Iraq out of Kuwait. I don't believe he had authority to go into Iraq. The deal that was "cut with Saddam" was a UN deal. He never lived up to the deal and got away with being an ahole for the full 8 years of Clinton. It took another Bush and the US Congress to get the job done.
You libs who ciite Halliburton, did you know that Clinton signed a contract with them?
How can you say ,Obama try to work bipartisan , when there is no history he did it before. Obama never work bipartisan, his loyalty to the left was rated 99 % , ,from his time in Illinois as member of their State Congress to his 2 short years as Junior Senator for Illinois he never cross party lines or support a bipartisan initiative. Obama spent 4 years campaigning and bulling his enemies, until today, now he has a new PAC , organized by David Plouffe , Presidential Campaign Manager to continue campaigning and attacking his adversaries because that is his Chicago way.
Another low information voter commenting.
George Soros, the left wing billionaire Obama supporter head of moveon.org, purchase 60 millions in Haliburton stock.
Look at these rt wingers in total denial of real factual history.....JH....I posted on my first post a link...a factual link of interviews by the people who could have stopped the war...and admit it....and the victim CIA agent and whole operations exposed because they were trying to tell the truth......Try reading up before you post debunked statements....you won't emabarrass yourself that way.
War for profits...the republicon dream brought to you by Bush and Cheney.
For those who believe that the Iraq war was all about 'getting their oil', perhaps they should consider that, even after the high cost in lives and treasure, we get virtually none of our oil from Iraq, and what little we do get has to be bought at FULL MARKET PRICE.
Perhaps you need to get a different 'story line'.
Also, when the Iraq war was authorized, virtually ALL of the major Democrats of that time voted in favor of the war.
Yes Roy Wilson the Democrat party used to harbor the war profiteers, neocons and warmongers. Yes, the Vietnam war was a big mistake in all costs--financial, management, lives lost, emotional, etc., but since the Vietnam war, most neocons and war advocates have moved solidly to the republican party. The white house and congress were totally controlled by republicans when 9/11 occurred (for some reason, with no actions taken by Washington to counter its threats). The bill passed in republican-controlled congress in the late 1990s to do regime change in Middle Eastern countries and to start with Iraq were works of those neocons and advocated by their think thanks, such as the now defunct, The Project for the New American Century, of which Cheney, for one, was part of. The white house and congress were still completely controlled by congress when the Iraq war was started under false pretenses.
One of the worst consequences for Americans of all these recent Republican/neocon-driven wars has been their huge addition to the federal deficit. At least the Democrat party raised taxes, as required, to pay for their wars. The Republican party, however, started all these wars and a whole new Dept. of National Security, etc. and at the same time lowered taxes, especially for those who could afford to pay the most, and the Republican party wants to pay for these wars by stealing access to healthcare through Medicare for seniors (by privatizing it where the private insurance companies will price seniors out of the market to avoid their high liabilities) and by stealing from the Social Security safety net that most middle class and low-income seniors citizens will desperately need. The republican party also wants to pay for the wars by greatly reducing spending on food stamps and other programs for the poor.
Oh, yes, Roy Wilson, do we add World War II to your list also? US involvement in World War II was also totally started and managed by a Democrat-controlled congress and president. The people I knew who fought in the thick of it, although traumatized by the war, adamantly declared this war was truly worth it and necessary with statements such as, "Hitler had to be stopped," a strong opinion that I have never heard any historian oppose. The Democrat President who started US involvement in World War II, FDR, was so greatly respected by the American citizenry that he was elected to 4 terms, dying in office. Why do the Republicans never laud him? But of course he also started Social Security.
starsailing
You can take your posted link from MSNBC and put it where the sun don't shine. Did your FACTUAL link come from horses ass Mr. Ed of Rachel Madcow? Valerie Plame was and is a left wing kook. Her husband is the same. After all the investigating of leaking her name the only thing that they could come up with was that Scooter lied to an investigator. BFD. Left wingers are so stupid.
Roy Wilson, are you part of the 47%? Are you retired?
The 47% pays property taxes on their rents or on their homes. Most have paid income taxes for many years in the past. They pay many other taxes. They are mostly retired and handicapped people along with working poor and others.
1. The war was NOT over oil...but it was a war of aggression and occupation designed to change a regime that was no threat to us...a plan designed by neocon think tanks over a decade before it happened. Acts of aggression are not just morally wrong, they are also a war crime according to the international laws we agreed to previously, and in most cases designed.
2. Who cares if the Iraqis benefited?! We were lied into a war AGAIN (look up the history of American warfare...only TOPS 5 wars were self defense), and our tax dollars and young people's lives aren't part of some international welfare scheme. We aren't Santa Claus to the rest of the world! Many will claim this war was "humanitarian", but how you "humanitarian" was it for the troops who didn't want to fight a war that has ZERO to do with defending our domestic population and right? They would be jailed if they refused to risk life and limb to "free" someone else....not very "humanitarian" for our guys. They didn't sign up to welfare the world a "humanitarian" force...they signed up to defend THIS nation. That's a breach of their enlistment contracts if you ask me.
3. Obama only left when he did because of Wikileaks and their ability to show Iraq's new government how corrupt and brutal were being. Obama, if you recall, publically preferred to stay much longer (just like Afghanistan). So stop giving your warmonger any more credit than the other side's warmonger. Obama took a 3 front war (Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Iraq), and turned it into well over 4 fronts (Yemen, Somalia, Libya, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and several more places we're bombing rather regularly). If you go back and read the neocon list of nations they wanted regime change in, Obama is following the neocon plan exactly. And you fools have the nerve to defend him from the left? You know what happened to the anti-war left? They got up and LEFT when someone on the left got elected...hypocrites. Only one group in this nation can be consistently counted on to be anti-wars of aggression and occupation...the libertarians. Everyone else is only anti-war, at most, when they aren't in power. For libertarians it's philosophical, so they would protest their own candidates (look at the backlash they gave Rand Paul for supporting sanctions).
4. The more you blame each other's Parties, the more YOU are part of the problem.
Oil was very strongly protected and developed during and after the Iraq war. Remember during "shock and awe," how the oil ministry building was protected? Now Iraq is the 2nd leading oil producer in OPEC.
Gentlemen if you want to make a start at avoiding an Iran war begin by opposing Senate Resolution 65... Which almost essentially and without the direct wording marries us to Israel and its conflicts of choosing by both military and economic support.
You Liberals blame Bush for everything including this war, don't let the facts listed below effect your "Hope and Change and Blame Bush" tactics. You people with your lame avatars are laughable and pathetic.
"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998
"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998
"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
--Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998
"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
--Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998
"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton, signed by:
-- Democratic Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others, Oct. 9, 1998
"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
-Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998
"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
-- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999
"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
Letter to President Bush, Signed by:
-- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), and others, Dec 5, 2001
"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and th! e means of delivering them."
-- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002
"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
-- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
-- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002
"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
-- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002
"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
-- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002
"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002
"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do"
-- Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002
"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
-- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002
"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002
"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..."
-- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003
Denial is NOT French for a River in Egypt.
GO RESEARCH 2001 OPERATION VIKING HAMMER, OPERATION HOTEL CALIFORNIA, IRAQIS CHEMICAL WEAPONS FACILITY AT SARGAT IRAQ.
The War With Iraq was due to US Policy by US Law H.R.4655, Overthrow of President Hussein as amended to allow the Use of US Military Force starting with 1998 US Military Operation Desert Fox.
http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/1057063/posts
In 2009 President Obama in his attempts to embarrass the President Bush Administration had his Political Appointees declassify everything. This resulted in the Mission we had participated in becoming Declassified resulting in us finally getting the Awards, Medals, Decorations, etc. and retroactive Promotions. Because these Missions were Declassified, they did not even bother to delete our names, so we had all kinds of News Reporters, Book Authors, Hollywood Screen Writers, etc. showing up asking all kinds of questions, some even had Whitehouse Letters requiring our complete cooperation. Results:
October 2001 (Afghanistan) us attached to the CIA's SAD/SOG, note: It was NOT only the US Army Special Forces (if you watch the videos carefully you will see USAF, USMC, USN, CIA SAD/SOG, etc. also).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmiyyLNogaY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arxKhJIjIiY
Operation Viking Hammer (Northern Iraq, us with the US Army 10th Special Forces Group attached).
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/041018/18excerpt.htm
Operation Hotel California (us attached to the CIA Mission).
https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/csi-publications/csi-studies/studies/vol.-54-no.-2/operation-hotel-california-the-clandestine-war.html
Iraqis Chemical Weapons Facility Sargat Iraq (reflects what we with the attached US Army 10th Special Forces Group found out in 2001, Declassified 2009)
The Sargat Training Camp & Toxins
http://thomasjoscelyn.blogspot.com/2006/01/sargat-training-camp-toxins.html
If I would have written the above then I would have been charged with disclosure of Classified. In 2013, MSNBC misreports the Facts (that President Hussein did not know or was not in control of the region "The territory of northern Iraq where the traces of ricin were detected is not under the control of Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein." When you see Iraqis Military guarding, that means they have control) as
Positive test for terror toxins in Iraq
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/3070394/ns/world_news/t/positive-test-terror-toxins-iraq/
Once again the Iraq War as Operation Iraqis Freedom was NOT due to Weapons of Mass Destruction; but, due to US Policy Overthrow of President Hussein in accordance with US Law, H.R.4655, Section 3 US Policy Overthrow of President Hussein amended to authorize the Use of US Military Force.
http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/1057063/posts
Operation Hotel California the US Military Mission (us, US Army 10th Special Forces Group, CIA's SAD/SOG, Kurdistanis Pro US "Pesh" (Peshmerga), later on the US Army 173rd Airborne.). First use of a non nuclear E-Bomb, that destroyed all Iraqis Electronics plunging 20th Century Iraq into the Stone Ages
"The Iraq War most of us know began on March 20, 2003, with the U.S.-led invasion. In fact, it began more than eight months earlier—on July 10, 2002" (For us, 2001, after October 2001 Afghanistan, as the few survivors since the US Military Training Teams to US Ally Iraq during the Iran Iraq Wars (familiar from experience with Iraq and Operation Cyclone (Afghanistan), languages Arabic, Farsi, Pashtu and Dari; and Islam.)).
http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/operation-hotel-california-mike-tucker/1100360519
Will Saddam Fall Victim to the Elusive E-bomb?
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=125336&page=1
To all you slinging your no Firsthand Experience Manure Opinions on everyone on Newsvine's "Get Smarter Here". Don't worry Iraq is not over yet, only made worse by President Obama, in the future since you refuse to listen this will be YOUR F**KED UP PROBLEM, do NOT come crybabying to us. Dial 1-800-Dial-A-Prayer.
This is a bad argument for interventionism. We didn't get into that war to stop Hitler. We were attacked, and then declared war, NOT ON GERMANY, but on Japan (the nation who attacked us). We only declared war on Germany because they FIRST declared war on us. And what did our interventionism in WW1 (an unnecessary war for America) do to bring Germany into bankruptcy, and get them so desperate as to turn to a nut like Hitler (who BTW, was in a jail cell for a failed coup at one point before we bankrupted that nation with the unfair and impossible Treaty of Versailles)? The Allies of WW1 created their own monster in WW2. This is an example of interventionist failure.
And BTW...read more historians. Many have admitted that Germany was going bankrupt in WW2 before our entry and was already losing the war. They were out of grain for food due to bad socialist management in the economy, hence they invaded the USSR in the DEAD OF WINTER like idiots. They were desperate. The idea Germany would have conquered the world had we not intervened is nonsense...it's proven economically impossible for any one nation to completely conquer the world...tyranny is highly expensive. It's so expensive that the state often collapses its own economy trying to achieve such a world empire (review the history of every single empire in history, including our own). The myth that "WW2 brought us out the Depression" is just that...a myth. The Depression didn't end until our troops came home from WW2 and stopped directing their labors to a net loss activity for the nation (war), and started again directing their labors to productive things in the economy (non-govt directed economic activity). The massive influx of workers coming home from war didn't drop the wages either (another myth, that wages drop when supply of labor increases in a nation). If you don't understand why all the govt spending during and before the war didn't help ease the Depression, but instead prolonged it (as opposed to letting it be severe for 1-2 years and it being over) then read Frederic Bastiat's Broken Window Fallacy (the Parable of the Broken Window).
Roy Wilson: Liar. You include Social security which is separately funded. Just because congress has the authority to borrow this money to fund it's war machine they have no power to spend it otherwise. Funny you include social program spending only as deficit spending when clearly republican spending such as military and the massive debt service costs from Bush's drunken sailor spending could be done the same. The constitution mandates as a nation we provide for defense. A military that costs more than the next 17 largest militaries in the world combined with over 1000 over seas bases is far beyond a defensive military. Bush's last budget hit 1.2 trillion in 2009 bringing his debt to 12.1 trillion and the near destruction of our country before Obama even took office. Notice the date of the article. 13 days before Obama took office.
http://money.cnn.com/2009/01/07/news/economy/cbo_2009_budget_outlook/
Roy Wilson uses past actions by democratic presidents to prove a point. Too bad he isn't smart enough to know that until Lyndon Johnson betrayed the conservative party Democrats were conservatives and Republicans the liberal party. You're right Roy. At any point in history it's conservatives who seek war and liberals that make every effort to avoid it.
If they weren't a threat to us, who cares? If having chemicals weapons is a pretext for invading nations and occupying them for 8 years then we'd have to invade, overthrow, and occupy every nation in the world...including our own. The question is whether they were a threat to our domestic population in any direct and measurable way...and they weren't. We were sold that war on a "mushroom cloud" lie...and that logically was a lie about a nuclear program that never existed. And we are going to keep doing it everytime our govt wants to lie us into another war.
Next we'll be in Syria...which again is no threat to our domestic population.
David: All very interesting but ignores that even though Clinton had the authority to remove Saddam he didn't do so nor does it address the intelligence from numerous sources provided by starsailing post 1.4 that the actual congressional authorization to invade was based on lies. Anyone presenting evidence suggesting Saddam was not producing WMD was demoted and their opinions were discarded. Talk of risen, mustard gas or any other chemical weapons were not an issue. Congress authorized the invasion to prevent Saddam from acquiring nuclear weapons. Half the countries in the world have chemical weapons. That wasn't the concern and congress never would have authorized war for chemical weapons and you know it.
This article is a reminder to the nation about the cost of nation building when a nation does not invite us to the table. I think the complete history will show and does show the party started long before President Bush was even elected. Like so many operations the Joint Chiefs have a map years in advance of overt action. History shows that it takes years to develop a battle plan and couple that to logistics to move hundreds of thousands of troops around the world. So with that fact just who is responsible for Iraq...not President Bush...but he did play his part.
Next
The REAL reason for the idiot twins (Bush, Cheney) invasion of Iraq...
"And yet Iraq is now OPEC’s second-largest oil producer after Saudi Arabia."
And the oil corps just keep getting richer by the day. You right wingers probably believe we went into Afghanistan for "freedom" also when in fact it was to try and secure the natural resources (lithium just to name one) within the border of Afghanistan. The lowly American soldiers life is being thrown away for the enrichment of the multinationals.
Libs and Pugs are no different, they care less about you, your family, or your life...Money is the motivator, and if you can't see that then please take of your red and blue blinders.
ProIndividual-3906907,
After the WWII Era US War Department Documents were Declassified, these books were written based on those Declassified WWII Era US War Department Documents, that later resulted in the US Congressional Exonerations of Admiral Kimmel and General Short (US Military Commanders of the Territory of Hawai'i, before and during the Pearl Harbor Attack).
Read these books based on the Declassified pre WWII and WWII War Department Documents, this will change your whole concept of what actually happened:
Day Of Deceit: The Truth About FDR and Pearl Harbor by Robert Stinnett. May 8, 2001
At Dawn We Slept: The Untold Story of Pearl Harborby Gordon W. Prange, Donald M. Goldstein and Katherine V. Dillon. Dec 1, 1991.
By the way the US came out of the Great Depression 1939, before US Entry into WWII, 1941; due to President FDR's creation of the current US Military Defense Industrial Complex with the sales of "War Materials" to England, France, Russia, China, etc. in exchange for tons of gold, silver, raw materials, etc.. This is what stopped the Massive Unemployment of the Great Depression.
During WWII when the US Men were "Drafted", the US Women* took their places in President FDR'S US Military Defense Industrial Complex Factories and Plants starting "Dual Incomes", "Disposable Incomes", and eventually the current "Middle Class". Imposed on the US Nationwide to prevent Catastrophic Accidents were the Federal Labor Laws, Workplace Safety Committees, etc., this WWII US Military reference book with many illustrations (due to the US Illiteracy) is currently still at many US Military Depots.
*http://www.bing.com/images/results.aspx?q=rosie+the+riveter&form=MSNH14 note the head scarf as required by the US Military Reference Book for President FDR's US Military Defense Industrial Complex Factories and Plants as part of Workplace Safety (so women's hair would not get caught in the machines with their heads being pulled into the machinery and their heads crushed, also the length of women's hair while at work was mentioned (if not tied up)).
Larry-367607 "The cost of 'welfare' (food stamps, cash aid, Medicaid, etc') is about $735 Billion per year, which accounts for almost 70% of the 2012 Deficit of $1.1 Trillion.......Roy Wilson: Liar. You include Social security which is separately funded."
I did NOT include Social Security or Medicare in my figures - they are self-funded with contributions by workers/employers.
You should check your facts before calling someone a 'liar'.
Larry-367607 "At any point in history it's conservatives who seek war and liberals that make every effort to avoid it."
And yet it's Republicans that have been most successful in keeping the peace, while 96% of our war deaths occurred under Democratic Presidents.
As I mentioned, is that a 'coincidence', or do Republicans just have more effective foreign policies. In the liberal attempts to avoid war, perhaps that strategy of portraying weakness doesn't deter tyrants bent on conquest - As Chamberlain found just prior to WW2 with his 'peace at any cost' policies.
By the way - Here's an interesting dichotomy - The original meaning of a 'Classic Liberal' was someone that believed in a minimum of interference from a central government and maximum freedom to do as you wish (liberation from tyranny), while a 'modern' Liberal seems to be someone that believes in an all powerful central government that dictates what they decide is best for its 'subjects'. Conversely, a modern day 'Conservative' is someone that believes that the government should get out of the way and give people a maximum of freedom to do as they wish.
Go figure.
citizensarethecountry "Roy Wilson, are you part of the 47%? Are you retired?"
Which '47%' are you referring to?
It was an unfortunate comment by Romney that likely cost him the election, and was originally based on the fact that about 47% of Americans do not pay any federal income taxes, but it should actually be broken into about 25% of voters that include welfare recipients and voted for Obama by a margin of about 71% to 29% for Romney. The other 22% of people that do not pay income taxes were mainly retired people that actually voted for Romney by a margin of about 56% for Romney vs 44% for Obama. These figures are based on the N Y Times exit polls from the 2012 election.
The other 53% of voters (the ones that DO pay income taxes to support those on welfare) voted heavily in favor of Romney.
And yes, I am retired.
What did I post:
david-475776 - Once again the Iraq War as Operation Iraqis Freedom was NOT due to Weapons of Mass Destruction; but, due to US Policy Overthrow of President Hussein in accordance with US Law, H.R.4655, Section 3 US Policy Overthrow of President Hussein amended to authorize the Use of US Military Force.
http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/1057063/posts
You want to discuss the Overthrow of US Ally President Gaddaffi. Hint: US Military Asymmetric Warfare (aka Special Warfare) at Libya since February (before the Libyan Civil War), verified by US Army Special Forces LTC Wood Unclassifed Testimony to US Congress. The President Obama Propaganda "No US Military Boots on the Ground at Libya", while the International News Media reported the US Military Boots on the Ground and the Libyan Rebels were glad of direct US Military Involvement as on their side instead of killing them as Al Quada Saudi Arabia (AQ), Al Quada Islamic Maghreb (AQIM), Al Quada Syria (AQS), Al Quada Yemen (AQY), Hezbollah, Al Quada Arabian Peninsula (AQAP), the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG), etc.
He tried since 1998:
After President Clinton's 1998 State of the Union Address, resulting in US Law, H.R.4655.
a. We were attached to the CIA's SAD/SOG, in 1998 we went into Iraq. Mission to hire hundreds of thousands of Shia of Iraq (mostly Illegal Aliens from Iran) as assassins and insurgents to Overthrow Sunnis President Hussein. We failed because of President Clinton's previous Gutting of the US Intelligence Agencies, the Local Iraqis Pro US Intelligence Assets were NO Longer Funded; so to survive they became Iraqis Counter Intelligence Agents, Iraqis Military Intelligence or Iraqis Special Forces (Counter Insurgency), Iraqis Law Enforcement (including Iraqis Secret Police), etc.; so the hundreds of thousands of Shia of Iraq that we hired as assassins and insurgents were easily Captured, Tried as Traitors, Executed and Dumped into Mass Graves. President Clinton spun this failure to "Dictator Massacred His Own People" (photo of widow crying over mass graves).
b. While still at Iraq, hiding with a few Pro US Iraqis, our mission was changed to 1998 Operation Desert Fox. It was President Clinton's Belief that by attacking the Iraqis Political Leadership there would be no one to negotiate Peace (President Hussein stepping down from the Presidency), so President Clinton as Commander In Chief Ordered the targeting of the crowded urban poor areas of Baghdad, we opposed and stated that "you do not f**k with the poor of Islam". We were threatened with Relief from Duty (Command), Imprisonment, Detentions, UCMJ, etc., so we withdrew our protests, and were allowed only to conduct Target Damage Assessments and NOT allowed to do any Targeting.
During 1998 Operation Desert Fox the Airstrikes and Cruise Missile Attacks killed thousands of the Poor of Islam, this resulted in the over 1.5 Billion Islamic Believers Worldwide Condemning the US as the Great Satan. In retaliation against the Great Satan Fundamentalist Islamic Osama Bin Laden starts planning the 9/11 2001 Attacks of the same targets as his previous 1993 First World Trade Center Bombings (Video Tapes by Osama Bin Laden).
The outrage and condemnation at Iraq against the Great Satan (US) was so bad that even the few Pro US Iraqis we were hiding with turned against us, so we had to emergency exfiltrate thru Redacted.
By Islamic Laws YOU DO NOT F**K WITH THE POOR OF ISLAM, THE MENTALLY IMPAIRED, THE HANDICAPPED, Etc.. As usual the Politicians Refused to Listen to those of us that had the most to lose (our lives). Just like refusing to listen to us after the US Military Training Teams to US Ally Iraq during the Iran Iraq Wars and Operation Cyclone (Afghanistan).
By the way Larry-367607, just to let you know, I am still waiting for President Obama to Declassify the other US Military Missions Ordered by President Clinton after 1998 Operation Desert Fox all the way up till his last year in Office, 2001, to attempt to Overthrow President Hussein.
So with your own post you are admitting that due to President Obama's Failed Foreign Policies that the US Lost the Iraqis Oil to the Allies of the Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran, the Chinese and Russian Federation; the Mineral Wealth of Afghanistan lost to the Ally of the Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran, the Chinese, China Metallurgical Group. That would make President Obama even more of according to your description "idiot" than idiot twins (Bush, Cheney).
US Ally Saudi Arabia, "President Obama gave Iraq to Iran as a Gift on a Golden Platter". Now US Ally Saudi Arabia is pissed at President Obama because now they have an Ally of the Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran on their Northern US Ally Saudi Arabian Border. And again due to President Obama's Failed Foriegn Policies US Ally Saudi Arabia also has Allies (Holy Warriors of Islam) of the Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran on their Southern US Ally Saudi Arabia Borders; to their West they have the other Ally of the Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran, the Muslim Brotherhood of Egypt again due to President Obama's Failed Foreign Policies; and of course to their East they have the Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran.
So colormepurple, first tell me the names (Short Titles) and dates of President Obama's Failed Foreign Policies; then admit to everyone that President Obama is the real "idiot". And like I stated before the Iraq Situation is NOT finished, nor are all the other Failures created by President Obama's Failed Foreign Policies, that cost Unnecessary Deaths, so the next time it will be all of YOUR turns, not us anymore.
Also colormepurplebefore you start with your comments about "Greed" you might want to look at yourself first, you own Greed and current US Standard of Living; unless you want to live at President Obama's United Somalia of America. And yes, I have survived Somalia as Operation Continue Hope. President Obama's Failed Foreign Policies Resulted in: US And US Allies Loss of Strategic Resources Worldwide Required for the current US Standard of Living and Future Alternative Energy; US And US Allies Loss of Strategic Locations Worldwide; US And US Allies Loss of Key and Strategic US Allies Worldwide.
And the Big Picture: It has been the Strategic Goal of the Chinese and Russian Federation to get the US and US Allies out of their Backyards (Resources). The Chinese and Russian Federation using the Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran (and recently the Democratic Peoples Republic of North Korea) as their "Proxy Fighter" Worldwide. The Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran using the Millions of Holy Warriors of Islam as their "Proxy Fighters" Worldwide.
Here's a song for you (President Obama's United Somalia of America)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yv-Fk1PwVeU
Like I posted before this will all be your turn to deal with; most of us will be going back on retirement again, don't crybaby to us, you don't want to listen to Facts (Definition Fact - Experience or Observations; our decades of Firsthand Experience and Firsthand Observations), so go ahead continue with your opinions (Definition Opinion - a personal view, attitude, or appraisal without knowledge, thought, or reason. As your no Firsthand Experience nor Firsthand Observations) we know and have seen what opinions do as those of us that did not survive. We had our opinions also and refused to listen also, so of the almost thousand of us that started since the US Military Training Teams to US Ally Iraq during the Iran Iraq Wars rotated to Operation Cyclone (Afghanistan) till now there are only a few dozen of us that survived.
MSN et al, really needs to get over its vendetta against W Bush already and admit its ultimate failure to do responsible investigative journalism (just like Bengazi). How quickly people forget how mega supportive the entire country and media was for going into Iraq at the time. Just because we were wrong (and yes we were just WRONG, nobody LIED to anybody....there is a difference) all of sudden the embarrassed media and its manipulated dissenters campaign to blame W Bush so they can avoid any responsibility; and so many of you in this forum continue fall for it. Pathetic. If you make it your agenda to portray the Iraq War in a negative light, I'm sure you'll make it happen. Where does this 10 year metric come from to anyway? How about waiting for the end of the war rather than the beginning? And news flash - it isn't even over yet; contrary to what Obama is telling you we're still there, yet the media wouldn't dare crucify their darling for his end of war declaration. Good thing we don't judge the merits of the Revolutionary War on this criteria, 10 years later we were still 20 years away from fighting it all over again. Guess that wasn't worth it either. Just demonstrates the shortsightedness of all those passing judgment once again.
@redvirginia
Low information voter? You're a nutcase, my statement on Cheney's self enrichment has very little to do with politics moron, it has to do with conflict of interests, where a former CEO of Haliburton, was directly involved in the no bid contracts directly awarded to his former company, a company he still had active interests in since he did not do the honorable thing of placing his assets into a blind trust when he entered office. Profiting to the tune of $118 million is more than just a conflict, it is outright criminal. All Soros did was what most rich people do, place their bets on the smart money. Your inference that Soros profited from his investment was meant to show that 'liberals" benefitted from the war has nothing to do with criminal behavior I cited.
IRAQ WAS BUSH's WAY OF REWARDING HIS WEALTHY FRIENDS AND SUPPORTERS
CNN-
It has been 10 years since Operation Iraqi Freedom's bombs first
landed in Baghdad. And while most of the U.S.-led coalition forces have long
since gone, Western oil companies are only getting started.
Before the 2003 invasion, Iraq's domestic oil industry was fully nationalized and closed to Western oil companies. A decade of war later, it is largely privatized and utterly dominated by foreign firms.
From ExxonMobil and Chevron to BP and Shell, the West's largest oil
companies have set up shop in Iraq. So have a slew of American oil
service companies, including Halliburton, the Texas-based firm Dick Cheney ran
before becoming George W. Bush's running mate in 2000.
The war is the one and only reason for this long
sought and newly acquired access.
Oil was not the only goal of the Iraq War, but it was certainly
the central one, as top U.S. military and political figures have attested to in
the years following the invasion.
"Of course it's about oil, we can't really deny that,"
said General John Abizaid in 2007, former head of U.S. Central Command and
Military Operations in Iraq. Former Federal Reserve Chairman, Alan Greenspan
agreed, writing in his memoir: "I am saddened that it is
politically inconvenient to acknowledge what everyone knows: the Iraq war is
largely about oil." Then-Senator and now Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel said
the same in 2007: "People say we're not fighting for oil. Of course we
are."
For the first time in about 30 years, Western oil companies are
exploring for and producing oil in Iraq from some of the world's largest oil
fields and reaping enormous profit. And while the U.S. has also maintained a fairly consistent level of Iraq oil
imports since the invasion, the benefits are not finding their way through
Iraq's economy or society.
These outcomes were by design, the result of a decade of U.S.
government and oil company pressure. In 1998, Kenneth Derr, then CEO of Chevron, said, "Iraq possesses
huge reserves of oil and gas-reserves I'd love Chevron to have access to."
Today it does.
In 2000, Big Oil, including Exxon, Chevron, BP, and Shell, spent
more money to get fellow oilmen George W. Bush and Dick Cheney into office than
they had spent on any previous election. Just over a week into Bush's first
term, their efforts paid off when the National Energy Policy Development Group,
chaired by Dick Cheney, was formed, bringing the administration and the oil
companies together to plot our collective energy future. In March, the task
force reviewed lists and maps outlining Iraq's entire oil productive
capacity.
Planning for a military invasion was soon underway. Bush's first
Treasury Secretary, Paul O'Neill, said in 2004:
"Already by February [2001], the talk was mostly about logistics. Not the
why [to invade Iraq], but the how and how quickly."
In its final report in May 2001, the task force argued that Middle
Eastern countries should be urged "to open up areas of their energy
sectors to foreign investment." This is precisely what has been achieved
in Iraq.
Here's how they did it.The State Department Future of Iraq
Project's Oil and Energy Working Group met from February 2002 to April 2003 and
agreed that Iraq "should be opened to international oil
companies as quickly as possible after the war."
The list of the group's members was not made public, but Ibrahim Bahr
al-Uloum -- who was appointed Iraq's oil minister by the U.S. occupation
government in September 2003 -- was part of the group, according to Greg
Muttitt, the journalist and author of "Fuel on the Fire: Oil and Politics in Occupied Iraq".
Bahr al-Uloum promptly set about trying to implement the group's objectives.
At the same time, representatives from ExxonMobil, Chevron,
ConocoPhillips, and Halliburton, among others, met with
Cheney's staff in January 2003, to discuss plans for Iraq's postwar
industry. For the next decade, former and current executives of western oil
companies acted first as administrators of Iraq's oil ministry, and then as
"advisers" to the Iraqi government.
Before the invasion, there were just two things standing in the
way of western oil companies operating in Iraq: Saddam Hussein and the nation's
legal system. The invasion dealt handily with Hussein. To address the latter
problem, some both in and outside of the Bush administration argued that it
should simply change Iraq's oil laws through the U.S.-led coalition government
of Iraq which ran the country from April 2003 to June 2004. Instead the White
House waited, choosing to pressure the newly-elected Iraqi government to pass new
oil legislation itself.
This Iraq Hydrocarbons Law, partially drafted by the western oil
industry, would lock the nation into private foreign investment under the most
corporate-friendly terms. The Bush administration pushed the Iraqi government
both publicly and privately to pass the law. And in January 2007, as the
''surge" of 20,000 additional American troops was being finalized, the president set specific benchmarks for the Iraqi government,
including the passage of new oil legislation to "promote investment,
national unity, and reconciliation."
But due to enormous public opposition and a recalcitrant
parliament, the central Iraqi government has failed to pass the Hydrocarbons
Law. Usama al-Nujeyfi, a member of the parliamentary energy committee, even quit in protest over the law, saying it would cede too much
control to global companies and "ruin the country's future."
In 2008, with the likelihood of the law's passage and the prospect
of continued foreign military occupation dimming as elections loomed in the
U.S. and Iraq, the oil companies settled on a different track.
Bypassing parliament, the firms started signing contracts that
provide all of the access and most of the favorable treatment the Hydrocarbons
Law would provide - and the Bush administration helped draft the model contracts.
Upon leaving office, Bush and Obama administration officials have
even worked for oil companies as advisers on their Iraq endeavors. For example,
former U.S. Ambassador to Iraq Zalmay Khalilzad's company, CMX-Gryphon, "provides international oil companies and
multinationals with unparalleled access, insight and knowledge on Iraq."
The new contracts lack the security a new legal structure would
grant, and Iraqi lawmakers have argued that they run contrary to existing law,
which requires government control, operation, and ownership of Iraq's oil
sector.
But the contracts do achieve the key goal of the Cheney energy
task force: all-but-privatizing the Iraqi oil sector and opening it to private
foreign companies.
They also provide exceptionally long contract terms, high
ownership stakes, and eliminate requirements that Iraq's oil stay in Iraq, that
companies invest earnings in the local economy, or hire a majority of local
workers.
Iraq's oil production has increased by more than 40% in the last
five years to 3 million
barrels of oil a day (still below the 1979 high of 3.5 million set
by Iraq's state-owned companies), but a full 80% of this is being exported out
of the country while Iraqis struggle to meet basic energy consumption needs.
GDP per capita has increased significantly, yet remains among the lowest in the
world and well below some of Iraq's other oil-rich neighbors. Basic services
such as water and electricity remain luxuries, while 25% of the
population lives in poverty.
The promise of new energy-related jobs across the country has yet
to materialize. The oil and gas sectors today account directly for less than 2%
of total employment as foreign companies rely instead on imported labor.
In just the last few weeks, more than 1,000 people have protested at ExxonMobil and Russia Lukoil's
super-giant West Qurna oil field, demanding jobs and payment for private land
that has been lost or damaged by oil operations. The Iraqi military was called
in to respond.
Fed up with the firms, a leading coalition of Iraqi civil society
groups and trade unions, including oil workers, declared on
February 15 that international oil companies have "taken the
place of foreign troops in compromising Iraqi sovereignty" and should
"set a timetable for withdrawal."
Closer to home, at a
protest at Chevron's Houston headquarters in 2010, former U.S. Army Military
Intelligence officer Thomas Buonomo, member of Iraq Veterans Against the War,
held up a sign which read, "Dear Chevron: Thank you for dishonoring our service."
Yes, the Iraq War was a war for oil, and it was a war with losers:
the Iraqi people, and all those who spilled and lost blood so that Big Oil
could come out ahead.
So...
The exact same brainiacs that justified, planned, executed, and forgot to fund the Iraq war... the ones TOTALLY responsible for the outcomes faced in Iraq today... are using the very same reversed and contrived logic for their policies on the economy, budgets, defense, entitlements, tax cuts, gun control, immigration, leadership, politics in general, religion, minimum wages, the 47%, the debt ceiling, and virtually everything else they put their muddy paws on.
Be wary... very very wary. Arrogance and ignorance is a very dangerous combo.
TO: ROY WILSON-336103 who wrote:
Oh come on! What does "anti-Bush" mean, telling the truth?
Republicans have an overwhelming problem with accepting and dealing with their own failures, especially when is comes to taking responsibility for what they do, admitting to their own mistakes, and learning from them.
The differences being, HOTTICKET, that
So do don't try to sell me that fairy tale that Obama is just like Bush. If Bush had been President when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor, we would have invaded Brazil. Bush, Cheney and company did incalculable harm to this nation.
David-475776 - You keep posting that ridiculous drivel, over, and over and over again. But words spoken many times are not multiplied in either meaning or truth, and anybody gifted with a high-school mastery of English could read that law and see that you are 100% full of @!$%#.
Here's the actual text from the law:
There is no text whatever in this law requiring, or even authorizing, use of military force. In fact, section 8 reads as follows:
So the relevant text of the law. I don't know whether you are crazy, blind, or just stupid, but nobody of sound mind could read that law and conclude that it in any way requires or authorizes the invasion of Iraq 5 years later.
With regard to Clinton's state of union address, this may be news to you, but nothing in any state of the union address by any President, has force of law. It is a political speech, meant to inspire and to shape public opinion. That is all.
Why we went into Iraq remains an open question to this day.
It certainly was not because of any law passed in 1998, or due to a speech given by Bill Clinton.
What hogwash.
@dman
"Why we went into Iraq remains an open question to this day."
Only to people that refuse to open their eyes to the real world.
TO: trust2112 who wrote:
signed: George "Curveball" Bush ?
I actually agree with you, but I didn't want to get into a separate debate about the actual cause. My intent was only to refute David-475776's more than silly contention that a law passed in 1998 allowing, but not requiring, limited aid to forces attempting to oust Saddam Hussein, was in any way the cause of the invasion in 2003.
You are totally off-base on your economic history. The stock market crashed n 1939 (just not as bad as 1929)...it was the start, not the end, of the Great Depression's double dip. Historians call the end of the Great Depression 1939 because of GDP (which matters to Wall Street)...but the unemployment rate is all that matters to Main Street. Our unemployment rate didn't drop below 10% (it was between 15% and 25% for most of that period, and was still over 15% in 1939) until all the troops started coming home from WW2, and it plummeted more and more as they returned (contrary to economic fallacy that says more people in the labor force would create a surplus of labor supply and therefore lower wages...wages didn't fall during this period). As for military spending getting us out of the Great Depression...look up the Broken Window Fallacy. Government spending is always less productive and less efficient than what the spending would have produced in the private sector. Even the "food stamps are more efficient than cash" argument is easily debunked. It boosts GDP to have the govt spend, but that is misleading. If you slash spending (as they did at the end of the war) and allow the private sector to spend that same money the GDP goes higher than it did with govt spending the same money.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Depression
Larry & Notsosure10 - Right On.
I think they actually run these articles to see how much the american public really knows.
It's not Democrat or Republican, it's the War Industrial Machine and huge amounts of money. This war was planned long before the Twin Towers fell. Other Country's have more choices and freedom than the U.S. does. Look what they pushed in while everyone was scared, the Patriot Act and "Homeland Security" and false threat levels to scare people even more. Our media is owned by 5 huge conglomerates controlling what you read and spread propaganda, the latest is that "We must hate Muslims. Percentage wise, Jews are more terrorists than Muslims. Terror, terror, terror, boy they love that word don't they. At first I would read a Newspaper story and they would call a husband a terrorist to help spread the word & hate. Propaganda works and works excellent and they know how to do it. Tell a lie 10 times and it becomes truth, amazing really.
I don't know about "hope and progress" but I do know it brought "dispair and destruction"!
Even the people from Iraq remember the GOOD OLD DAYS WITH Sadam Hussein. How bad can it be?
Avoid Iran by opposing Senate resolution 65 guys. Best start to prevent this war is to show Israel we understand our national security situation how fragile we are as a nation, and that we wont send our kin to pay for it.
This article puts a whole new meaning to putting lipstick on a pig.
Yep. No matter how you try to dress up a pig and convince yourself it's a Victoria Secret model, it's still a pig.
"Real progress" in Iraq? My a$$. It's a tinderbox waiting to explode.
Our government seriously can't believe the krap like this that comes out of their mouths when it comes to Iraq (or anything else, for that matter). If they do then they are seriously delusional.
Funny, but the thing I remember most about the invasion of Iraq is how desperately NBC News and other "news outlets" were selling this whole pile of dung to the American people. The major media sources became instant mouthpieces for the Bush White House and sucked up to them in every possible way to ensure that their organizations were first in line to be embedded with the troops. Then, when the invasion began, these same newsmen never even got down from the back of the military vehicles to give their live reports from the war zone. The only reporter that even questioned this approach was Ashleigh Banfield and she was promptly fired for speaking up. I blame the blind media for selling the lie as much as I do Bush for creating the lie. Hans Blix was right the whole time and no one even wanted to interview him.
Yeah, I remember some of the soldiers questioning the war too. They were quickly silenced. Remember the "It is unpatriotic to question us"?
I remember a quote from Hans Blix at that time.
He said, "I find it interesting that someone could have absolute certainty as to the existence of WMD yet have no certainty as to their location"
Bush changed the whole game when he said if you're not with us you're against us. PATRIOT CLAUSE.
You Liberals blame Bush for everything including this war, don't let the facts listed below effect your "Hope and Change and Blame Bush" tactics. You people with your lame avatars are laughable and pathetic.
"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998
"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998
"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
--Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998
"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
--Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998
"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton, signed by:
-- Democratic Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others, Oct. 9, 1998
"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
-Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998
"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
-- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999
"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
Letter to President Bush, Signed by:
-- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), and others, Dec 5, 2001
"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and th! e means of delivering them."
-- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002
"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
-- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
-- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002
"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
-- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002
"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
-- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002
"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002
"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do"
-- Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002
"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
-- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002
"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002
"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..."
-- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003
JUSTDOESNTGETIT: However many quotes you post only your good buddy Bush actually sent in the troops. Only he has to answer for the 5000 dead Americans, 50,000 maimed and hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqi's, 3 trillion added to our debt all because Bush wanted to complete what his father failed to do. Read Starsailings link in post 1.4. Most of the comments made by congress and others were based on lies provided by Bush/Cheney. Talk is cheap but kills no one. Every president threatens and talks tough in order to keep despots wary. Threats made to Saddam mean nothing. Sending in the troops does.
*millions dead*
Hey Wilson
Why are you still here you idiot. Guess what. The first US Advisers went into Vietnam in 1955. Guess who was President then? Dwight D. Eisenhower. The first combat troops in 1965. Advisers were a precursor to eventual combat troop involvement.
Try to actually research topics and not pick and choose information. Stop being a worthless tool.
@YOUJUSTDONTGETIT
No matter what quote you post, the ONLY person/persons that should be hung for the invasion is Bush/Cheney. Lies and boogymen, nothing more. Bottom line is OIL and if you can't see that...then...YOU JUST DON'T GET IT!!!
Amen, colormepurple. While many American politicians expressed certainty in 1998, and even in 2002, that Saddam had a WMD program, in those months leading up to the invasion, it was Bush, Cheney & company who were promoting this belief, using intellgence data which even at the time was highly doubtful.
Sure, many U.S. congressmen (and women) were foolish to belief these claims. But they only believed the lie. Bush told it.
That is the difference, and it is a big one.
What do you expect from " war"? This was just a bunch of people in politics getting richer. They don't care about we the people because we are expendable. This is also why they want young people who don't know how they work.
111 Congressional Democrats voted for the war.
RIGHT! BUSH TOLD THEM THAT HE HAD ""Intelligence" (OXYMORON) that proved that without a doubt, there were weapons of mass destruction.
And then the GOP put all that under the RUG in the last elections. BUSH was just a product of our imaginations...RIGHT!
The only mass destruction was created by the US military machine.
THE GOP is the most inept group of individuals. It brings memories of the Roman Empire ON ITS FINAL DAYS!!!
MJD32.......Keep trying to deflect the main point huh?...The main point is this. Bush and Cheney lied the nation and the world into this war. Deliberate lying to everyone for personal gain.
Cheney set up no bid contracts...for republicon companies only to take part in getting war profits.
BUSH/CHENEY AND THEIR CABINET DELIBERATELY LIED CAUSING THE DEATHS AND THE MASSIVE DEBT THE WHOLE UNITED STATES SUFFERES FROM.
Starsailing,
Both parties are in the conspiracy to destroy America. However, the real blame lies with the global elite. The global elite control the evil (also not a government agency) Federal Reserve. These people bought our politicians off just like they did in Europe. The entire game is rigged in favor of the wealthy (tax code, healthcare, stock market). Do you think it is merely a coincidence that Europe and the US are all mired in debt and facing similar economic conditions at the same time. Also, the Federal Reserve and Federal Income tax were both created in the same year. Does anyone happen to think that was just a mere chance of dumb luck? The Federal Reserve has been a scam since day one as a chance to make the wealthiest people in the world even wealthier.
For those who do not believe this corruption, I suggest you start reading this blog to find out who the real enemies of the US are. Most of them are hiding in high offices.
kfilly,
You are making entirely too much sense for most of the sheeple who regularly use this thread. They can only comprehend what this administration and MSNBC tells them on a daily basis of what is and what is not true. Don't confuse them with facts, they will only berate you as a liar and teabagger as that is their MO.
Based on a lot of lies. Republicans still want to follow Bush's policy's. Talk about throwing good money after bad. Get a clue, they only want more money in the corporate pockets. To any Republican it's only all about the money.
kfilly....true that is the whole picture of what is going on....But way too much for the people who are middle class and poor who vote republicon.
The middle class and poor are duped by daily assigned catch words and phrases thrown about deliberately by republicons, in order to make them actually think they share the same values and lifestyle as the rich and greedy 1%,.......is there any hope for the future of America?....Imagine, being middle class and poor and voting for republicons greedy rich 1% as if they are the same values and self interests........crazy beyond belief.........
I agree that all intelligence gather from both the forieng and domestice agencies were wrong. But why doesn't this dame media discuss the failures of Obama's push in Afghanistan. This was his idea to move deeper into this and it has failed.
But for some reason it is easier to look and be drawn away from today's mess in Afghanistan?
It is like the shell game see here but hide here wit this rhetoric. Let's talk about now and the continued poicy Obama still holds true to not catching anybody for intelligence but drop a drone on him instead.
Unfortunately the intelligence Bush was using and Kerry and a whole bunch of Dems and republicans relied on came from a CIA that was castrated by President Clinton whose inept foreign policy failed to stop 9-11. If Clinton had done a better job in foreign policy 9-11 would not have happened and if his wife did a better job, neither would Benghazi. The blood is on Clinton's hands, not Bush.
Don't blame the Dems, they relied on Clinton's impotent CIA. But what difference does it make? Go ask Hillary.
star sailing The next time you get back to earth Maybe you should look at the whole picture all of both parties are wrong The democrats believe government should control our lives and the republicans want little government to interfere with the wealthy. So maybe if some of you get off your high horse and see that government is NOT THE ANSWER but we need a system that promotes EVERYONE IN DOING THEIR FAIR SHARE not sucking off the government for free and not just trying to screw over the AMERICAN public for wealth We need people in control who would educate more ( our education sysem is a joke THE NATIONAL EDUCATION BOARD NEEDS ERADICATING) about people becoming more self sufficient and not I AM ENTITLED TO THAT BECAUSE I BREATHE Some people are always going to have more than others AND IF YOU WANT BETTER GET OFF YOUR DEAD ARSE AND WORK OR GET BETTER EDUCATED and also as education is acquired then more people vote with thier heads not the color of their skin
Gordy...one of those take the government down to a smaller role so the rich can privatize and make more profits off the masses. Free tax loopholes welfare for the greedy rich and you complain about middle class and poor who have their jobs destroyed by the rich sending them overseas to make more profits and then hide that profit in offshore accounts.......Damn those poor people for being poor because of the rich 1% republicons cut education in their budgets and crashed the economy.........Damn those poor for not working 4 jobs instead of 2-3 just to put food on the table........We get the picture you are painting Gordy....."
Maybe you want to make some more changes ...like instead of "We the people'....to We the Greedy Rich"
Based on biased lies provided by Bush.
http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/03/18/selling-the-iraq-war-experts-knew-the-intel-was-faulty-why-didnt-they-blow-the-whistle/?ocid=msnhp&pos=3
Patriotmark: Kfilly didn't post a single fact just an opinion like most who post here especially those teabaggers you talk about. Sorry but quoting Rush doesn't make it a fact.
Valerie...you are so wrong....Bush deliberately used old intel and spun it ....it is called lying......we are so laughing at you!
I'm still waiting for Bill O'Reilly to apologize for his support of the war if no WMDs were found
Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan all have a common denominator. All three wars were and are a huge mistake. Iran, North Korea, and Africa are going to be our next debacles. So long as we have a corrupt Congress, our seriously flawed foreign policies will remain the same and this country will continue to suffer. Our wars have been motivated by economics and politics based on those of us in power who seek personal agenda's, personal financial gain, and march in step to the cadence of Wall Street.
More new evidence from the just released LBJ tapes while he was in office show president Nixon was a traitor! President Nixon was not only a crook but he committed TREASON by sabotaging the peace signing LBJ has negotiated with North and South Vietnam and China.
LBJ had S.V. Nam ambassadors phones tapped by the FBI and recorded the information showing Nixon interfering with the signing of the treaty. More taped calls from LBJ talking with Republican Sen Dirksen show Dirksen agreed it was happening. Over 22,000 more U.S. soldier died because of Nixon and his treason acts.
Why do republicons love war profits $$$$$$$$ and glory over American lives?????
Are you really trying to excuse LBJ'S involvement in Vietnam? The gulf of Tonkin incident? Was that Nixon also? yeah He wasn't going to send American boy's 10,000 miles to fight a war Vietnamese boys should be fighting, Thats why he only send 500,000 to Vietnam. Beside's the fact that he got the Presidency through Assassination, Then two more national leaders were assassinated while he was in office. You see where I'm going with this? Forget LBJ in your argument.
Richard....the war was going to end...the treaty was to be signed.....Nixon the traitor blew it up to gain the office at any cost. 22,000 lives were lost, one of them was my best friend....NIXON KILLED HIM.
Fact ...Nixon committed treason.
and obama has caused the loss of several jobs since being in office Because of his policies my wife took a hit of 10 grand a year Contractors are unable to find those SHOVEL READY JOBS my wife is in the concrete pipe manufacturing industry and their buisness is less than half of what it was since he came into office even with the recession you blame whomever on IT STILL AINT COMING BACK and we live in a city of over 400,000 people
Oh gordy.......the economy was in free fall.....The night President Obama took office....good ol boys of the republicon party met and pledged to vote against and obstruct anything that might help president Obama look good in the next election 4 years out......Lo and behold they did just that...record filibusters and obstruction...even blocking healthcare for the 911 first responders.......They pledged to King Norquist to never raise taxes on the rich....and are sticking to it....holding the nation hostage for the greedy rich 1% like Romney. ....Now ....who you going to blame?....We have had this discussion........too many times...if you vote republicon...you are part of the problem.......I've taken a hellofa bigger hit than just 10 grand a year.....I wish it was only that much..........supporting republicons is not the answer to our problems...
if you vote democrat you are the problem
Gord
Just another no nothing, ignorant bagger. Does it hurt to be so incredibly stupid?
@gordonw12
Let's see, Bush-Cheney administration, started 2 wars, both unfunded, added the 78 billion/yr Department of Homeland Security, cut taxes in a time of war (this allowed them to hide the truth of the war's costs from the American public) which had never been done by any administration in U.S. History. Doctored and cherry picked intelligence reports to support their illegal activities, and their move to war, finally, at the end of their tenure, they crashed the American economy. The problem is voting Republican, after all, all Bush-Cheney had to do to eliminate the deficit completely by 2010, was to follow the plan laid out by a Democrat President and A Republican Congress.
Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.
Nobody forced Americans to vote for the officials who started this war. Nobody forced Americans to join the military. Nobody forced Americans to wave their flags and to cheer gleefully as if every falling bomb were another touchdown at a football game. You, the American People, are to blame for it all. You enjoyed your war. Now it's time to enjoy your bill. LOL
Nobody knew ahead of time our elected scum would start a war of aggression and stick us with the bill. Hindsight is 20/20.
Troop levels have been able to support the wars because of the economic draft. Poor/working class Americans have little choice but to join the military. Most do not want to live in poverty.
The whole nation should have been better informed by the media about president Bush, V.P. Cheney and his cabinet in their role on lying the nation into the Iraq war. The media failed as a watchdog to prevent the war crimes committed by Bush regime upon the United States. All the evidence was there at the beginning as interviews with Bush's cabinet members,who now openly tell how they knew the people were being lied to and they did nothing, and the media did nothing but report anyone who opposed Bush plans was unpatriotic.
The media is more focused on reporting two sides arguing, name calling, and feelings rather than telling facts that people then can make a sound decision from to go forward.
Thousands of people who died because of Bush lying no longer have a choice to feel hope...because they are dead. Our soldiers did not let the U.S. down.
The whole country was united instantly because of 911. Bush and Cheney lying the nation into war in Iraq for personal gain, tore the country apart. They should be tried for war crimes. The blood of those who died in this war is forever stained oin the names of Bush and Cheney and can never be washed from history, no matter how hard their supporters spin and deny the truth.
I agree. Investigative reporting went out the window in the '70's. We don't have any way of guarding the foxes in the hen house anymore.
star, You DO realize IRAQ finally admitted to having WMD in FEB. 2009
------------------
Your morning HISTORY lesson
No WMD's were ever found. All America found in Iraq was sectarian violence, dead GI's, PTSD, National Debt, and it's own sad ability to torture POW's. Oh, we also found that W wasn't just a moron, he was also a War Criminal.
Your other morning History lesson
More, sorry, You're buying the propaganda.
google WMD FEB 2009, Iraq admits problems dealing with left-over WMD's
IRAQ asked for the world's help in FEB and April 2009, ( Obama) with safe guarding and destroying its WMD's
--------------------------
Glad I could help ya with today's history lesson
MORE... READ and LEARN from research,,,, Don't believe the hype
----------------------
FEB. 2009- IRAQ WMD'S
APRIL 2009 IRAQ WMD'S
------------------
Yes during the Obama admin, asking for help with their WMD's
Defend........your revisionist history does not fly among those who are educated beyond Fox news.....please cease the diarrhea on the keyboard for your own well being.
@ Defend, I call B.S. My cousin was there for the Navy in 91 and again in 03 tasked with finding WMD's and they found NOTHING. Everything that Sadaam did have and used on the Kurds in 87 & 88 had been destroyed in the 91 Gulf War. News articles can say anything but the people that were actually there are my news source..............
star, its NOT Faux news,
Take the time to research the subject before ya comment.
-------------------------
Roscoe,, IT'S IRAQ, THE COUNTRY OF IRAQ,, ADMITTING IT HAS and HAD WMD's the whole gulf war
BOTh of ya, pull head out and READ, research the subject.
FEB. 2009
MARCH 2009,
IRAQ ADMITS it HAS/had WMD'S--------- NOT from FAUX news, from IRAQ itself
It also doesn't matter if the righties of lefties are in charge. They're gonna do whatever they decide to do and manipulate both sides of the media to sway the general consensus in line with their objective.
Defend.....we are not laughing with you...you know that don't you........Bush was on Meet the Press and even admitted it........it's on you tube.....but I doubt that anything reality based will help you.
CBS/AP/ February 11, 2009, 7:50 PM
"The final report of the chief U.S. arms inspector for Iraq was expected to undercut a principal Bush administration rationale for removing Saddam Hussein: that his Iraqi government had weapons of mass destruction.
In drafts, weapons hunter Charles Duelfer concluded Saddam's Iraq had no stockpiles of chemical, biological or nuclear weapons but said he found signs of idle programs that Saddam could have revived once international attention waned."
http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-500257_162-647840.html
Star, Who ya gonna believe BUSH on youtube or the COUNTRY of IRAQ asking for help deposing of its WMD's
--------------
I don't get you guys, Ya scream BUSH LIAR all the time , Then when it suits YOUR agenda he's telling the truth
Minan59
CBS as a news source, just as scary as FAUX news.
Try again, Google Tucker FEB 2009, Iraq requests help with its WMD's
Defend.....Tucker....?............So credible........We get it that you don't get it .....defend...sorry.......
Try doing search on .....Fox news dumber...and see actual studies that show people who watch Fox news are actually dumber after watching it...True...do the search........!
Starsailing - Too bad Bush was using Clinton's impotent CIA for intelligence after Clinton failed to stop the rise of Bin Laden and the fall of the Twin Towers
star sailing you need more oxygen how about the interviews of som of the obama voters wow and these people are allowed to breed and they dont watch the news they liked the color of his skin seriously if that is all you voted for then you are not entitled to have children LACK OF EDUCATION
Denial is NOT French for a River in Egypt.
GO RESEARCH 2001 OPERATION VIKING HAMMER, OPERATION HOTEL CALIFORNIA, IRAQIS CHEMICAL WEAPONS FACILITY AT SARGAT IRAQ.
The War With Iraq was due to US Policy by US Law H.R.4655, Overthrow of President Hussein as amended to allow the Use of US Military Force.
http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/1057063/posts
In 2009 President Obama in his attempts to embarrass the President Bush Administration had his Political Appointees declassify everything. This resulted in the Mission we had participated in becoming Declassified resulting in us finally getting the Awards, Medals, Decorations, etc. and retroactive Promotions. Because these Missions were Declassified, they did not even bother to delete our names, so we had all kinds of News Reporters, Book Authors, Hollywood Screen Writers, etc. showing up asking all kinds of questions, some even had Whitehouse Letters requiring our complete cooperation. Results:
October 2001 (Afghanistan) us attached to the CIA's SAD/SOG, note: It was NOT only the US Army Special Forces (if you watch the videos carefully you will see USAF, USMC, USN, CIA SAD/SOG, etc. also).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmiyyLNogaY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arxKhJIjIiY
Operation Viking Hammer (Northern Iraq, us with the US Army 10th Special Forces Group attached).
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/041018/18excerpt.htm
Operation Hotel California (us attached to the CIA Mission).
https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/csi-publications/csi-studies/studies/vol.-54-no.-2/operation-hotel-california-the-clandestine-war.html
Iraqis Chemical Weapons Facility Sargat Iraq (reflects what we with the attached US Army 10th Special Forces Group found out in 2001, Declassified 2009)
The Sargat Training Camp & Toxins
http://thomasjoscelyn.blogspot.com/2006/01/sargat-training-camp-toxins.html
If I would have written the above then I would have been charged with disclosure of Classified. In 2013, MSNBC misreports the Facts (that President Hussein did not know or was not in control of the region "The territory of northern Iraq where the traces of ricin were detected is not under the control of Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein." When you see Iraqis Military guarding, that means they have control) as
Positive test for terror toxins in Iraq
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/3070394/ns/world_news/t/positive-test-terror-toxins-iraq/
Once again the Iraq War as Operation Iraqis Freedom was NOT due to Weapons of Mass Destruction; but, due to US Policy Overthrow of President Hussein in accordance with US Law, H.R.4655, Section 3 US Policy Overthrow of President Hussein amended to authorize the Use of US Military Force.
http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/1057063/posts
Operation Hotel California the US Military Mission (us, US Army 10th Special Forces Group, CIA's SAD/SOG, Kurdistanis Pro US "Pesh" (Peshmerga), later on the US Army 173rd Airborne.). First use of a non nuclear E-Bomb, that destroyed all Iraqis Electronics plunging 20th Century Iraq into the Stone Ages
"The Iraq War most of us know began on March 20, 2003, with the U.S.-led invasion. In fact, it began more than eight months earlier—on July 10, 2002" (For us, 2001, after October 2001 Afghanistan, as the few survivors since the US Military Training Teams to US Ally Iraq during the Iran Iraq Wars (familiar from experience with Iraq and Operation Cyclone (Afghanistan), languages Arabic, Farsi, Pashtu and Dari; and Islam.)).
http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/operation-hotel-california-mike-tucker/1100360519
Will Saddam Fall Victim to the Elusive E-bomb?
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=125336&page=1
Valerie ...your posts are so funny.............you must be Gordy double posted.........99% of the rt wingers don't even believe the nonsense anymore you are posting...so funny! Not even Fox news says that anymore........Oh....the humanity....!
This war has destroyed the very fabric that once held this nation together. It has divided a nation on its' Constitutional VALUES. It has brought in socialism and it has started to enslave Americans through fear and war propaganda. The US military is guilty of genocide which in order to understand one needs to be very unbiased. 600K Iraqi civilians KILLED, kidnapped, tortured and murdered. This war has blackened the earth and has done absolutely nothing to promote peace. We the people let this happen and I am haunted by this.
I end with a list of occupied, invaded lands by our Government to promote peace and democracy.
1.Iraq
2.Afghanistan
3.Libya
4.Pakistan
5.Yemen
6.Syria
7.Parts of Africa
8.Iran
******North Korea and Russia just waiting to jump into the fighting.
Socialism? LOL
Extreme Capitalism has destroyed this country. If people are turning to Socialism, it's because Capitalism failed-- as it always does.
Socialism is a success where? I guess you do not read the news and have no clue what's going on in the world. Perhaps you should pick up a history book and find out who actually built America and why the country has been a success and how progressive socialists and big government is our demise.
Why dont you ask Cheney and Hallaburton that question!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Politicians, Lawyers and prostitutes are all the same. They all phuk you out of your money and pretend to love you. And, you fall for it. Look in the mirror America if you want to place blame. Otherwise, vote them out and get another crew. At least it's a start.
Vote them out?
BAHAHAHAHAAA!
You think the next crew is ANY different whatsoever? Your either kidding or lieing to yourself if you think so.
The system itself is broken.
Saddam made it clear he wanted to be a middle east Hitler. for years he used his oil as an economic weapon. While saddam was taken out, who benefited? First it was Russia as the former USSR bankrupted, and taking down Saddam bailed out "democratic" Russia bringing much needed revenue flowing stabalizing this country. America greatly benefited taking out Saddam as our oil industry has rebounded creating millions of need jobs, and we're no longer dependent on foreign oil.
And Iran is close to being a nuclear power.
How again is the death of thousands of Americans in a war that allowed one of our enemies the ability to produce a nuclear weapon a benefit in any manner?
Also, I don't see all these millions of oil jobs you speak of either. We have never imported more than 4% of our oil from Iraq.
When we took our personal lap dog out of power, the entire region became even more unstable. I guess you could call that a benefit if you were planning future conflicts ahead of time.
Well, the Iraq fiasco surely left "Five Deferrment Dick" Cheney smiling...while he counts the millions Halliburton slipped into his offshore account. I'm already against the next war. ASHLEY JUDD (DEM-KY)...Adios Mitch!
Ashley Judd ! Oh yeah ! She's twice as hot as Sarah Palin and twice as smart. Oh wait, twice as smart would only bring her to eigth grade level. Okay, 8 times as smart.
News from NBC,,, HILARIOUS,,, can't believe a single word, PROVEN LIARS many times
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Plus, where's the comparsions Saddam time VS now.... article is totally SLANTED, typical
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And where was NBC with the news when IRAQ finally admitted to having WMD in Feb 2009
NOT a WORD
Their totally flawed previous article as to "was it worth it?" didn't fly either. They're still trying to put lipstick on this pig and it isn't working.
Defend.......you need to seek therapy..or at least shut off Fox news....go to the top of the post and read the interviews on the link I posted on the people who knew the president was lying, and how they admit they could have said something.....
shrub and little dick RAPED this country!!!!!!
The Iraq War was the biggest hoax of all time next to the Afghanistan War! Garbage in-garbage out! Millions of others and myself wrote months before the war started that there were no WMD's, and that once the big toys had been put away, the real war would start. Bush said himself that this war could take "10 years", because HE KNEW what would happen.
But more importantly I blame the American people, my fellow citizens and our almighty press for not being more diligent in asking for answers! Iraq HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH 911. There were no WMD's. No terrorist training camps! No connection whatsoever! And by destroying Saddam Hussein we destroyed the only real enemy of Iran withing striking distance. The list of lies and blunders goes on forever!
Iraq is heading for another dictatorship and Afghanistan will never be pacified by military force. If a million Soviet troops as brutal as they were could not break these people, neither will NATO or the US with less than a 100 thousand and state-of-the-art technology!
I will not question the loyalty and bravery of our forces as they were following orders, but by creating and encouraging this process of "supporting the troops", whose real purpose was to deflect criticism away from the Bush administration thus extending the war, the American people have created a society of military heroes who like many other groups feel they are "entitled" to things more so than the average Americans. Once this starts to turn and it will, another problem!
They were not protecting our liberties and freedoms and in fact by their very actions, it may in the long run "hurt" our liberties and freedoms! In many ways these wars already have! On 9/11 our security was attacked! We thought we were safe. Freedom never guaranteed security and security never guaranteed freedom. In fact in many ways the two are opposites! Ben Franklin said once that; "those who seek to trade security for freedom - don't deserve to have either"!
I AGREE!
Of course, most of us know that, and you've put it in a very well-written articulate and astute manner summarizing this. As a retired combat veteran of Vietnam, I could see the writing on the wall right off. Of course, nothing I could do about it except be angrier. It didn't take Nostradamus to see where we were headed on the second gulf war. Even after daddy had surrounded Dubya with all his cronies, he still botched it. I can only hope Obama has the wisdom to continue to deal with Bush's mistakes and learn from them. However, the poor man was like a virgin walking into a whorehouse (Congress). He's learning and there is some hope. Congress is and always has been the problem. Bush just knew how to play them. And us.
He has not stepped up to the plate yet. He continued most of Bush's policies and spent the rest of the time blaming others. We will have to wait a few years for the posibility of a real leader to deal with all the drama of Bush and Obama.
If America is part of a "global community," Why are we the only ones paying the bills? The biggest thing W did wrong is think there is a person from that region that want to join us in the light. They are more than happy to live in crap, blaming the U.S, for their problems while their "shieks and princes" are banking billions. Piss on them! $67 billion would have fixed a lot of infra-structure here in our country. Now we are stuck with Mr. Hope & Change! The only thing he's aiming for is to turn this country into a third-world crap-hole like Iraq. Then we can all sit in squalor watching our government officials wisk by in their chauffered limos. Maybe we can blame Canada (that's a joke by the way! I don't want any of you touchy-feelies thinking I'm anti-Canadian.)
Dave......remember how PRESIDENT Cheney and his sidekick Bush said....the oil in Iraq would pay for the cosy of war?..........typical republicon budgeting......
And how good does it feel to fill up your gas tank these days. Too funny starsailing, if Bush was President today, you would be accusing him of Big Oil Profits and say nothing about all the money Obama has received from the oil companies, all the money he is sending overseas to support fascist, misogynistic regimes and all the money the poor and middle class have to pull out of their pockets to drive their cars.
I can't help but laugh at the brainwashed. Whether we went into Iraq or not they'd still be having their problems regarding the Shiite and Sunni. That's the root of the current situation there. It has little to nothing to do with Bush's war. I do pray the brainwashed neo-Communists would get a grip.
9/11/01 is just like December 7, 1941. Yet the brainwashed dance to Mr. Kruschev's dictate without bothering to seek the truth. Where would the world be if the brainwashed liberal/Nazi/neo-Communists ruled the roost on December 8, 1941? Would Japan, Germany and for that matter South Korea be as prosperous as they are without America? Or would the world be enslaved if the brainwashed liberal/Nazi/neo-Communists ruled the roost?
I'm willing to bet most of the brainwashed goose steppers don't have a clue of what I'm trying to point out.
GRIDLOCK IS GOOD FOR AMERICA!
Solindra......1/2 billion, just to mention one of pookie's scams.
Iraq......$1Trillion and counting, not to even mention the tragedy of 4,000 US soldiers killed and many tens of thousands wounded, many permanently, just to mention just of the the shrub's scams.
You're trying to compare a solar company that went bankrupt to a war that costs over 100,000 lives?
I'll take 100 failed business ventures long before I choose going to war.
"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998
"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998
"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
--Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998
"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
--Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998
"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton, signed by:
-- Democratic Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others, Oct. 9, 1998
"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
-Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998
"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
-- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999
"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
Letter to President Bush, Signed by:
-- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), and others, Dec 5, 2001
"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and th! e means of delivering them."
-- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002
"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
-- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
-- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002
"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
-- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002
"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
-- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002
"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002
"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do"
-- Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002
"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
-- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002
"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002
"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..."
-- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003
can't wait for the Iraqis to pay us back with all that oil revenue we were told would pay for the war! Thanks, Bush, Cheney, Rice, Wolfowitz....you should all go up in that damn mushroom cloud of yours!
Wolfowitz was possessed by McNamara's evil spirit. Cheney and Rumsfeld were self-made evil. Bush was just stupid.
Perry-27135557. You nailed it, from the "Wolfman" to "Shrub". I now apologize for having voted Republican almost every national election from 1952 until 2008. I still refuse to vote Socialist however.
Im not sure i can tell the difference between their economies and ours under Oboma. Kind of sounds like right here at home.
One of the large problems with our ability to help Iraq was Vice-President Joe Biden's inability to negotiate a status of forces agreement with the Iraqi government. He staked his office on it failed to reach an agreement and failed to resign.
Kind of difficult to negotiate a status of forces agreement with a government that flatly refuses to negotiate that agreement.
And that sums up the Bush legacy...
Just because we haven't prosecuted and jailed George & Dick, doesn't mean that history will be kind to them.
Jeb! thinks history will be kind to his brother. SOS, if we say it, it must be true.
Obama didn't end it and he has been in office for more than 4 years, he is is on the same team as Bush… When will people wake up??? this started long before bush, hell even before Clinton. but lets blame Bush even though Obama has spent more and deployed more troops than bush did in all eight years
Right on, let's blame Bush, he invaded Iraq when no one else was so stupid and arrogant.
BTW, your last comment is factually false.
Mark, you don't like Joey's lie? I thought it was cute.
I think most agree that Bush screwed everything up and Obama can't fix it. Our foreign policies have sucked since the late '40's. We have 163 foreign bases. We're intimately involved in 90 countries. We're at war with North Korea now technically. Again. We give billions to people who hate us. Obama has changed nothing. He's trying his best just to keep a lid on things while he pursues his true hidden agenda he's had all along. Getting us into Africa.
Perry 27+ Again I agree with you. You should be aware that this country has not won a war engaged in since WW2, except for the first gulf war (a police action to force Iraq out of their neighbors oil fields), a faux war in Panama where loud Heavy Metal music was used to get the president of Panama to surrender, a "war" in Nicaragua where the Sandinista were forced to play nice, by threats of obliteration by the US and the great victory over the Island fortress of Grenada. Clearly we have lost in the 2nd Gulf with civil war existing in Iraq, Afghanistan is not much better and when our troops are withdrawn, there is sure to be a bitter fight over who gets the US dollars in the Afgan central bank. If we did not lose the Korean and the Viet Nam conflicts then why are the VC controlling the entire country and why is North Korea allowed to starve its own people in order to threaten the US with missiles and H bombs built with that money? When are we going to return to being the country of conscience and not engage in war for political or financial gain?
The gawd awful truth of the matter is that "W" and Cheney got us into one of the worst situations this country has seen since the Great Depression. These long, drawn out wars have cost us dearly in blood and $$$. We should have never invaded Iraq and Afghanistan should have been a mostly air campaign with limited ground involvement--we sure as hell shouldn't be there some 11+ years later. The damage that W and Dick wrought on this country should never be marginalized regardless of how pathetic a job Obama is doing. These two destroyed the GOP brand to all but the most dyed-in-the-wool conservatives. The GOP lost a lot of independent voters and has struggled mightily to win precious few back. It's really sad how the faithful of both parties defend the horrific actions of "their guy" regardless of facts. We saw it with repubs defending(and still doing so) the 8 years of Bush and we are seeing the exact same thing with the dems defending Obama. We have suffered through 12 years of failed leadership with 4 more to go. God save this country from itself.
You can bet neither Cheney nor Bush will ever leave the U.S. for fear of being charged with war crimes. And don't forget Colin Powell, the master salesman, who played the good soldier and fed the American public a line of B.S. in order to gain support for the invasion. Now he travels around as some kind of an elder statesman reaping big bucks as a speaker. And what about Condi Rice, now a celebrity when she ought to be vilified. What short memories we have.
Get serious. Obama and Bush are nothing alike, other than attaining the Oval Office, Bush largely thru legacy and dynasty, Obama thru merit and achievement. Obama had the courage to vote against the Iraq War, one of the very few, whereas Bush long dreamed of it and brought it to fruition despite plenty of Intel that none of the perceived threats and connections of Hussein were valid. Obama ended the Iraq War, and sought to bring the Afghan War to a definable finish, which will be accomplished next year. To call them identical shows gross ignorance of the facts.
obama has no merit none without valerie jarrett and george soros barry soetero would still be doing tokes and his boyfriend
Hope and progress to Haliburton maybe. What $1.5 trillion? For what. Same in Afghanistan. I say if we want regime change do it the old fashion way with the CIA and coups. Send in the drones and Seal Team 6. Not the trailers full of 100 dollar bills. In my humble opinion not one of our 18,19,20 y.o. boys is worth any of these fuking politicians, Republican or Democrat.
I couldnt of said it any better myself JJ .