I'm pretty sure he meant the first ten centuries when they only have the results they could control.

the rule has already changed to allow priests from the orthodox catholic church to become priests in the Roman Church, even if they are married; the rules need to be changed, they were put into affect over 1300 years ago, to prevent the clergy from accumulating wealth and passing it on to their family's; this Pope a Jesuit(the shock troops of the church); is open to change those rules.

@rickintheforest - lol....yep that is some very strong Kool-Aid ...

The old guy is right, they should consider allowing priests to marry - like the Episcopalians can, and who do stand in for areas with a priest shortage. Maybe he'll have to wait for a few old timers who would contest the idea to croak.

It's kind of like the "chew gum and walk at the same time" argument. I think Catholic priests can do their jobs and be married at the same time. No one works harder than teachers and no one has ever suggested we need to be celibate. What about being president of an entire country? How much harder is it to be a Pope than a President?

The whole celibacy thing has NEVER made sense to me.

why are there even news stories like this? Of course this would never happen, never.

Tempted by a Woman? He's NORMAL!

Hey, it would be one step in bringing the Catholic Church in line with Scripture.

ONE step in bringing the Catholic Church "in line with Scripture"? Whose interpretation of Scripture? I wasn't aware that the Catholic Church was "out" of line with the Scripture. What you mean is bring the Catholic Church "in line" with YOUR view of Scripture which is just ONE view of it and NOT the definitive view of it. Everyone has an interpretation and one interpretation shouldn't be treated as superior to any other.

If it were natural to be celibate, we all wouldn't be having sex. But it is not natural and by abstaining from sex totally a person sets them self up for the unnatural. This case is proved by the volumes filled with priests committing acts of molestation against children. We have seen time and time again that any organization which works with children gathers pedophiles to it - pedophiles migrate to where children gather. They especially join those institutions that protect pedophiles over the children abused in the name of saving the organization's reputation. We've seen this not only from The Church, but also schools and other organizations like The Boy Scouts. Allowing priests to marry will at least show that many of these men live a somewhat normal life. Who would you trust more to tutor your children? A happily married man or a single sexual deprived man?

"It is a matter of discipline, not of faith. It can change."

This has nothing to do with scripture. It's a purely earthly law. But, hey, way to go finding (making up?) an argument with the Catholic Church...

.... hmmmm, a hererosexual Pope, ain't that something?

Vince-545056 - what is the first thing listed in the New Testament every time qualifications for any minister in the church is listed?

well gee vince - whats the point then, sounds like pretty liberal open sought of mind set - if none of it needs to be taken literally why be so hardcore to begin with - why even have a organized religion - live and let live - IMAGINE - to some blasphemy - others normal - its all nonsense - bs thrown out there - whoever gets caught in the net - there is your flock - its all a numbers game nothing more - none of it is real -

Yes, the sex abuse scandal is relatively recent and very small in number. And schools, Boy Scouts, Sesame Street, and every other organization that has people in it has been plagued by the same problem. It isn't a Catholic thing or a consequence of their celibacy but a problem of their fallen humanity. All these homosexual priests (anyone sexually attracted to someone of the same sex is homosexual) would have had the same problem if they weren't celibate. (Also note that I am not saying that all homosexuals are pedophiles or that homosexuals are more likely to abuse children. But any man that sexually abuses a male child is homosexual or bisexual.)

Everyone has an interpretation and one interpretation shouldn't be treated as superior to any other.

My interpretation is that it's a bunch of bronze age fiction, mostly plagiarized from existing pagan myths, written by anonymous goat herders so ignorant they make today's average Christian look like Stephen Hawking by comparison.

Matthew... not to disagree with most of what you posted, however, a pedophile is neither heterosexual nor homosexual. A pedophile, by definition is sexually aroused by young children. You simply continue to spread mis-information and reinforce prejudices if you do not acknowledge this fact. Sorry to disappoint you.

So,what do pedophiles hunger for? boys AND girls. Just because one is married does NOT have anything to do with pedophilia. The pope hungered of a girl--not a woman? The head of the biggest con in human history and you expect him to be honorable?

If priests are human then they need sex. End the marriage ban.

Celibacy in the Roman Catholic Church came about the turn of the second millennium in order to keep the wealth of the church centralized. There should not be any reason to reverse that decision since it is a temporal, not biblical, decision.

Navy...where do you think we got the Bible

I don't believe for a moment that allowing Priests to marry will stop the ones who abuse young boys. One has absolutely nothing to do with the other.

Look at all those kids at Penn State. Sandusky was married. Everyone knew about it. And he STILL did it.

This is no different than Scout leaders who molest kids, or teachers, etc. These people will continue to choose careers that will bring them into close contact with young kids.

I am Catholic and I'm all for Priests and Nuns marrying. It's a perfectly normal life for a person. I applaud Pope Francis for his brave stand in this matter. Change can be difficult for many. There will be some who condemn his views.

I say GOD BLESS HIM.

Yes, I agree. Take Jerry Sandusky, he is a a married man. Take Mary Kay Letourneau, she was a married woman with 4 children, when she had sex with her 12 year old student. It is likely that the the Preisthood, the Boy Scouts, school teaching, coaching etc, attract pedophiles because thay offer greater opportunity for contact with children. Unfortunatly marriage to an adult man or woman does not appear to be the cure for pedophilia. Celibacy is not the problem. A perverse sexual attraction to children is.

I love it! Thats the very best comment I have read on church and sex!

I completely agree with you @Janine-1645002. I am Catholic as well, and I find it appalling that there are priests that can commit such heinous crimes against children, but once they do it, it'll be hard for them to stop, I think.

To me, it would be a major step in the right direction if priests and clergy are allowed to wed. What can be more beautiful than sharing your life and happiness with someone else beside you, while at the same time, doing God's will? Everyone in the church would be happier, again this is only my opinion.

I think Pope Francis is incredibly brave and I think he'll do amazing things in our church. I hope God gives him the courage to take the necessary steps to get our church back on track. I will not condemn it, never. His views are his views, and if he can interpret them for the well-being of the church and the priests, then so be it.

(Yes, the sex abuse scandal is relatively recent and very small in number.)

Please that's not true. It is massive cause it happened in a place where it cannot happen according to their teachings. You see back in catholic school they told us being a priest was a calling from God and only saintly men would make it. Either the church is preaching BS or this did not happen cause if there is a god and he is dumb enough to hire pedophiles we need a new leader.

NavyChief24, I suggest you stick to secular military issues.

Holy sh*t, man. Christ did NOT say to Peter "go ye and write a book". Christ instructed Peter to create a Church -- the Catholic Church (no matter how much you wishy-washy Protestants hate and undermine this truth).

There are New Testament verses (namely in James) that states good works are needed for salvation. (Note that good works alone do not cut it, but good works keep the human mind and spirit thinking of God's Word and the love of our neighbor).

The Protestant churches/sects (all 30,000 to 40,000 of them) are the FALSE PROPHETS. Apparently centuries of one Christian church are all in error and only late 20th century cafeteria Protestant ministers all of a sudden "are the only way to heaven?" Laughable.

You also show tremendous ignorance - are you a Baptist!?!? - that the Pope is NEVER "set up to be worshipped" as you allude. The art pieces of the Medieval and Renaissance periods housed in Catholic Churches also are NEVER worshipped (contrary to what Protestants love to perpetuate as a lie!).

Humans are visual beings. At the time when the aristocrats gave their excess money to the Church and money was used for secular artists to create art/embellishment in Churches - the art was used for the illiterate masses to commune and understand God better.

As much as the modern world HATES the idea -- the Roman Catholic Church's primary mission is the salvation of souls FOREMOST -- lifting the poor out of poverty is a secular secondary mission.

The modern Catholic Church has got to pot since the Second Vatican Council (1962-1965), in which Protestant ministers were allowed to undermine the Mass. John XXIII himself admitted that the reforms of the Second COuncil had created a church with cracks in her foundation, allowing the smoke of Satan to 'find a way into the sacristy.' "

The whore of Rome is indeed today's Catholic Church, thanks to Protestant/worldly views undermining the centuries of Christianity entrenched in the traditional Roman Catholic Church (the One, True, Holy Church instituted by Jesus Christ).

Word.

Celibacy does not lead to child molestation. A normal person is not going to turn to molesting children because they are not "allowed" to have sex with adults. They're not allowed to have sex with children either. Anyone posting on this board who considers themselves a gay or straight adult who is only interested in other adults think about it: if you were told you couldn't have sex and eventually, you decided you couldn't take it anymore, what would you do? Go find an adult to have sex with or a child?

From the San Francisco Chronicle: " Pope Benedict retired because, at 85, he didn't have the strength or energy to carry out his duties. A few months ago, at 86, Hugh Hefner married his 26-year-old girlfriend. Doesn't say much for a life of celibacy, does it?"

@ Vince-545056 You have to actually read the bible, which the Catholic church discourages thier members to do, if you want to "follow" the scriptures. I was born and raised Catholic and my Aunt has been a cloistered nun for over 50 years, so don't try to say I don't know about Catholics. You people say the hail Mary over and over and no where in the bible does it say to pray that way. This prayer is not even mentioned in the bible. How about checking out Matthew 5:7&8 that sais not to say the same thing over and over again. The biggest problem is that you think Jesus is God, and I could show you dozens of places in the bible that definately prove that He is the son of God (who's name is Jehovah.) In your older version of the "Holy Bible" at Psalms 83:18 it used to say, "Let them know that thou alone, whose name is the Jehovah, art the Most High over all the earth." The original hebrew version of God's name was JHWH. It was written over 7000 times in the old testament, yet most Christians and Catholics have removed his name (which you are supposed sanctify, "Hallow be thy name" as catholics) and replaced it with the title God, Lord, and All Mighty. It's amazing how blind the Catholic faith is to the actual meanings written in the bible. You don't even understand what the Fathers prayer is instructing you to do, and you repeat it over and over again thinking you will be remembered by God for your lengthy use of words. If you would only stop listening to your clergy who is run by Satan and misleading the entire enhabited earth, and do some research on how the Catholic church was formed (by Pagans hell bent on distorting the true word of God), you mind find that you are following Babylon the great instead of God himself. Jesus said: “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will.” To have God’s approval, therefore, we must learn what God requires of us and do it. Jesus called those who do not do God’s will “workers of lawlessness.” (Matthew 7:21-23).“Separate yourselves, . . . and quit touching the unclean thing.” (2 Cor. 6:17)

It would appear that the Pope was once smitten by the "thunderbolt"

If you let two guys get married, then you'd better let a Father find a Mother..... would the kids be allowed to call him Daddy?

A) The Catholic church does not discourage reading of the bible. I was a student at Catholic schools for 12 years. In grade school, high school, and in college we had classes or courses that read and discussed the Bible, both the old and the New Testaments.

B) If the Catholic church were to rescind its rule of celibacy, it would create a potentially much larger pool of candidates for the priesthood, including some who were married, some who wished to marry, and perhaps even some women.

C) Even today, if a married minister of another faith (mostly Episcopalians and Lutherans, as I understand it) wishes to convert to Catholicism, he is allowed to remain married. So since the rule is already rescinded for some, why not for all? Retaining it in light of the modern adaptations for converts makes no sense at all.

No, I'm not a Catholic any longer, but I do keep informed on many issues, including those affecting religion.

Publia.... Why then, if you ask a priest why something is written in the bible, do they get upset and say not to read it? I asked why they didn't use God's name (Jehovah) and he said not to use that name??? I asked why there is no scripural proof of the trinity and why it was so obvious that the trinity is a pagan teaching, he got very upset with me and tried to compare the trinity to water, steam and ice?? I asked him to show me in the bible this water comparison or proof of the trinity and he dismissed me. Catholics are more interested in pagan traditions rather than scriptural truth because if they were to actually use the scriptures, they would be going against all thier tradition that has nothing to do with the bible. The rosary is nothing more than idol worship (same as all the statues of Mary.) Just look at the ignarance when repeating the "our father" prayer over and over. Hallowed be thy name?? - God and Lord are only titles and not Jehovahs name. Thy kingdom come, thy will be done??? - They don't even know what the kingdom is. It is God's government that was promised to us with Jesus ruling with the 144,000 anointed in heaven under Jehovah over a perfect worl with perfect humans after armagheddon.

@csmithers ... Your head is so wrapped up in fairy tales you can't think straight.

So the pope says that, in his younger days, he was "dazzled" by some babe, eh?

What exactly does it mean to be "dazzled"? Is it akin to having the "hots"? Does this mean that Francis I was a real studman before he entered the priesthood? Is this his way of telling us that he's straight?

Is he scheduled to "go on Oprah" and tell all? Film at eleven, maybe?

Sorry, but for my money, any cult that equates a major aspect of basic male human biology as "he got excited and that he had a fall," has to be regarded as completely out of touch with the humanity it claims to minister to and reach out to.

gaskdajfca

So long! You've been reported as advertising. Go peddle your fish elsewhere.

The Catholic church already has Deacons who are married. They perform baptisms and marriages already. They are involved in teaching and spiritual formation. They can read the gospel and give the homily at mass. They often participate in specific ministry to the poor, prisoners, etc. So in my mind it's a short hop skip and a jump from allowing Deacons to perform other sacraments and becoming essentially married priests. I could see this happening long before I can see the Church allowing those who took a vow of celibacy to break their vows willy nilly.

The sex scandals have been going on forever. How many Popes had illegitimate children? Look it up. It is eyeopening!

"it looks like he may be willing to talk about it"

I knew Francis I would bring this immediately to the table, I so stated the day he became Pope.

Jesus, I said at the time, had his Magdalene, Francis of Assisi had his Clare.

I'm a christian with an open mind. I'm not Catholic and have nothing against them. However, this new pope seems very resonable and wise. He is quick to embrace his own humanity and is not shy in doing so. It's early on but I will keep an eye on this man. I think he will do great things and humanize the church. I was always kind of interested in the whole pope thing and what it really meant. If my feeling is right I think he could very well unite the christian faith with his honesty, integrity, and most of all, his humble attitude towards life. I wish him well.

The pope has, probably, the most powerful position in the world. He gas the potential to greatly benefit the entire planet. I am not catholic and believe the religion of Jesus is an experiential and personal spiritual life. This pope is a great spiritual man and I will pray for him and all the responsibilities he carries. God help this half civilized world and any who try to improve it!

NavyChief24, have you ever read the bible? You are wrong on so many counts, it's ridiculous. God never intended celibacy, was Jesus married? No. If God's son was not married then how can you say God never intended that? And Jesus doesn't sin so that would have been something against his father, so you are wrong. Just in case you need bible a few verses on celibacy Matthew 19:12, 1 Corinthians 7:7-8 and 32-35.

As for your worshiping of man, does anyone worship the pope? No. That is sinful. Do people with kings worship their King or Queen? No. They honor them and their position. Did people worship Moses, St. Peter and St. Paul? No, worship is reserved for God. Jesus is the only man that should be worshipped as he is God man. We can however, honor and respect anyone. I see by your name you must have been in the Navy. Did you worship your Captain or General? No. You respected them just as they were appointed your superiors, so was the Pope appointed the leader of God's church, the Vicar of Christ. And again you are mistaken, Peter was the first pope. Simon was named Peter, "The Rock." by Jesus. Upon whom God's church is built. Jesus gave Peter the keys to the kingdom of heaven, the power to make the laws that are bound in heaven and because Jesus gave Peter these keys,. Not the Apostles, the interpreters and not the any reader of the bible, but Peter and Peter only, and Peter based those laws on the teachings of Jesus Christ. When his time was up, there had to be a successor, anther rock.... Pope Linus. As historic fact: No other church can trace it's beginning back to Christ but Catholics, that is fact. Sorry, don't mean to step on toes, this is just fact. Other churches can only go back to their interpreter of their faith, that they made and even more sadly, they can only back to the early 1600's.

As for good works, James 2:20, “But, wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead.” So again you are wrong. Is not healing the lame, making the blind see or raising the dead, good works? Yes. Jesus did this. Peter the first Pope healed many as did the apostles as did many saints, is that not following God’s teachings. You are misinterpreting God’s word. You are taking out what God has made good. Faith along cannot be without works. Yes the teachings of faith about Jesus is correct, believe in him and you shall have eternal life and should you die at that moment at that acceptance, yes you will obtain eternal life but you are wrong if you think it stops there and that is where all other faiths fail and fall. You must continue and follow his teachings, not just the ones that suit our worldly desires. Jesus to Peter, “whose sins you shall hear, you shall forgive.” Jesus said that!! Confession is a spiritual need. Jesus, “He who does not eat of my flesh or drink of my blood will not enter into the kingdom of heaven.” Communion. Jesus, “No, man (man, woman, child), will not enter into the kingdom of heaven, unless he has been born of fire and water.” These are works that are needed for and with faith. Without these is death.

Again, the Pope is not worshipped nor does he set himself up to be worshiped and God does not set him up to be worshiped. It is a position of honor, our Sheppard on earth. He should stand firm to the truth. His position as leader of the church and the bearer of the keys to the kingdom of heaven is holy and because of our love of God we honor and respect him. His position entitles him to be speaker of Jesus and for that he is infallible when and only when he speaks of faith and the church. He can be fallible when he is speaking plainly but for the church and for us, God promise that we will not be lead astray. 2000 years of Popes and the church is still here. Lucifer tried to set himself up and fell in one day. Who’s right, you or God?

Yes, go back and read the bible and see your error and becareful. Are you willing to lead people, knowing that if you are wrong, you and those that follow may fall with you? “When the blind lead the blind they both fall in the pit.” Even if your intentions are good, they could be wrong. And from your post, they are. God bless and I will pray that our faith be strengthened in God!!

csmithers, even if your aunt is a nun, you don’t know Catholics. You presume to know the Catholic faith when clearly you do no. You start off wrong. The Catholic Church encourages you to read the bible. The difference is we as Catholics are taught the bible as the church is the interpreter. Protestants are taught to read the bible and interpret for themselves, which is why you can have Protestants of the same faith not agree with the God’s word because each of them interpret the verse differently. Being taught the bible allows for one teaching and one meaning (which is "Universal or Catholic.") So when we read the bible we know the proper interpretation.

Praying to the Blessed Virgin Mary the mother of God, what is praying? The definition of Praying is asking. We ask our blessed mother to ask in our place as we are not worthy to speak to God. She is our spiritual mother, Jesus’ gift on the cross to man. We can ask or pray ourselves but humbling ourselves is greater reverence to God and God hears his mother’s plea. Take the first miracle of Jesus, turning water into wine. Mary tells Jesus there is no wine, to which he answers, “Woman, what would you have me do, it is not yet my time.” Mary then tells the servants to do as he asks. Why did Jesus do the miracle if it wasn’t his time? He loves his mother, and he will not deny her anything. As for the prayer, Luke 1:28 “And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with the, blessed art thou among women.” Luke 1:42 “and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.” When a king enters a room someone says or they used to, "Hail King George" most people bow or kneel out of respect. Its reasonable to believe the angel from heaven knelt to Mary a woman why?

As for repeating you miss interpret again. Jesus was asked, how do we pray? Jesus said the Lord ’s Prayer, the Our Father. If I pray this prayer every day more than once, I’m sinning? How can praying be a sin? Even the angels in heaven in Luke 2:9 were saying, Glory to God in the highest and on earth peace to men of good will. This was repeated, were the angels wrong. How about the angels in Isaias, “Holy Holy Holy, the Lord God of hosts,” were they sinning. No!!

Again you are wrong, Jesus is God and he is man. He is God in the flesh. They are three divine persons in One God. You cannot have one without the other. Jesus is God but his will was different then his fathers. Jesus told the Pharisees twice that he was God. Luke 10:30 “I and the Father are one.” Luke 8:58 “Jesus said to them: Amen amen I say to you, before Abraham was made, I am." What did God tell Moses in the burning bush? “I am who am.” Jesus plainly told the Pharisees he was God and they wished to stone him. God the father is God, Jesus the son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God. Three divine persons in one God. Jesus said he would be with us all until the end of time, he is not here but the holy spirit is, how can that be? unless they are one.

Truthfully it is you who are blind. Let me ask you this, if you had not known Jesus, would you follow or listen to Peter? How about the Apostles? You contradict yourself. Peter and the Apostles were priest and you call them Satan. You read the bible, is that not their word a mans word. The Catholic Church has been here longer than the Pentecostals and it will remain so. The Catholic Church has been here since our Lord ascended into heaven, Charles Parham started the Pentecostals in the 1900’s.

Give him a minute, he hasn't even been pope for a week yet. What do you expect him to say anyway? Oops? Theres not a whole lot he can say that will give people more comfort but maybe a little something to try and appease the masses. It won't work becaus eof the mob that hates the catholic church and brushes all preists with one broad brush but why not just to say they tried.

Makessennse-7131188 - Yes, but not saying anything about it is like ignoring it too! If he is the head honcho, then he needs to take full responsibility and speak to his followers and fix this ongoing B.S. once and for all!!!!

Jen-2243813, he has been on the job less than a week. Rome wasn't built in a day. Maneuvering in an organization as large and bureaucratic as the Roman Catholic Church is slow and difficult task for anyone, even the Pope.

So, he's been pope long enough to let the world know that he was tempted by a woman...does that have anything to do with the church? (No)

Why not comment on the biggest scandal facing your church today if you are the leader? Why, because it's easier to distract people with other things...oh look, the new pope was once attracted to a woman. Hey, excuse me pope, but you realize that some of your priests are attracted to little boys, and unlike you, they are acting on their attraction.

Heck, just make him watch the documentary Mea Maxima Culpa.

I don't agree that it is too soon to take action. I think he should have immediately stated that child molestation by priests will no longer be tolerated and that those priest will no longer be protected. Then taken those lists of priests who have a record of doing this or who have been accused of it to the police to be investigated and punished if they are found guilty. Priests are men, not angles or gods, putting on fancy clothes and strange hats does not change that!

sleepinsadie -- please read the opening paragraphs again. These are comments made a year ago -- before he was pope. People are dragging up everything this man has ever said -- now that his is pope.

Pope Francis suggested in an interview last year that the Catholic Church's rule that priests be celibate "can change" and admitted he was tempted by a woman as a young seminarian.

He said that the married clergy of the Eastern churches are "very good priests" and those pushing for the same in Roman Catholicism do so "with a certain pragmatism."

For now, though, "the discipline of celibacy stands firm," he said, adding that priests should quit if they can't abstain from sex or if they get a woman pregnant.

The former Cardinal Jorge Bergoglio's comments -- published in the Spanish-language book “On the Heavens and the Earth” and translated by the Catholic news website Aleteia -- were made when he was archbishop of Buenos Aires.

I do agree that he needs to address the hurt & harm of the child abuse - but he was just officially made pope on Tuesday... I would hope that he would make a substantive statement, followed with direct action -- to change the institutionalized abuse; meaningful change vs. quick platitudes....

The Church has addressed this more than anyone out there. The Church requires background checks on anyone and everyone that will have anything to do with children including the priests. And the Church requires this be done every couple of years for the background check of existing people working with children. The classes that are taken are done every year to ensure the children are safe. No adult is allowed in a room alone with a child unless it is their own child. Pope Benedict the XVI addressed this before and after he was elected pope. This pope will not do anything less. Pope Frances didnt just come up with this comment out of the blue. He was answering a question. When answering a question do you not address the subject of the question or do you go off on other subjects not pertaining to the question asked? Really people. Get over yourselves and quit talking about what you know nothing about. Or better yet, why dont you actually study the Church and find out why she does what she does. She is very scriptural in everything she does. Yes there are sinners in the Church and just because someone is a priest does not make him less of a sinner. From what I have seen in the news there are sinners in all walks of life, in every state and in every country

" No one works harder than teachers and no one has ever suggested we need to be celibate."..... LOL!

Cheryl,

The KKK and the Nation of Islam and Hamas invariably have programs in the midst of their evil that does good, such as getting young men off of drugs in the case of Hamas. Is this the defense you want to use for your faith?

Are you aware Cheryl, the Catholic Church still does not require mandatory reporting of child abuse in countries that don't have civil mandates to do so? Would you let that soak in a moment? That is the position from the so-called moral arbiters of all human beings now on earth and forever?

This is far from over. The Catholic Church Leadership has a history of serial lying. The Catholic Church environment is not hostile to young pee-pee touchers.

Don't worry Cheryl, the Catholic Church will do what it always does, it will WAIT THIS OUT, like it does every other human rights violation throughout its sordid history.

As an ex-Catholic myself, I know people can be good without Yahweh.

Atheist show me proof that the church has no mandates to report child abuse in countries that have not mandated it. Until I see proof from a source then I will set your rants to no more than your hatred against religion or anyone who believes.

Csmithers, you are so very confused and messed up it's not even funny! Second of all, if your bible is King James Version it's not Catholic it's Protestant. 3) God spoke to Moses in a burning bush and when he asked God "Who am I to say to Pharaoh has sent me?" God responded saying my name is I AM WHO AM, meaning Yahweh (not what you "claimed" it said). I believe it's in Luke of the New Testament of the Bible that says, "His (Jesus) name will be Emmanuel meaning "God is with us."

Another very important point to add is that the Catholic Church has never said nor will it ever say because it's not in the Bible .... Our faith is not built on Sola Scriptura being that the Church is built on Oral Tradition and Scripture. Ever since the Apostles and the Birth of the Church with the Feast of Pentecost, (Descent of the Holy Spirit) The Apostles chosen by Jesus like Peter, Andrew, James, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John among others (There are 12 Apostles) would walk to many different continents and parts of the world spreading the Word of God orally- word of mouth. They did this for 300 years before the Bible of the Catholic Church was written and published on the first printing press invented around the 1800's.

No one can explain the Holy Trinity because this is talking about the essence of God and NO ONE knows about the essence of God except God himself. The only thing ever revealed about this is that there are 3 people -Father, Son, and Holy Spirit all in perfect unity and communion with each as one whole entity of the Almighty God, Creator of Heaven and Earth. Basically, 3 people - One God. Think of a shamrock - (this is just an analogy to help you understand this better) There are 3 leaves on a shamrock all in perfect harmony, unity and in communion with each other under one stem.

To explain the Holy Spirit is to say that this is the 3rd person of the Holy Trinity which represent all of the goodness, love, peace and sanctifying grace of the Father and the Son. Another analogy to understand this is this: All of the Love, Peace, Faith, Hope etc of the Father came into perfect union with the same characteristics of the Son with such force that they created a new (person) which is the Holy Spirit. The Father and Son are the same God (begotten, not made, one in being with the Father) The Nicene Creed talks about this better. Any other information can be found at ewtn.com or zenit.org.

I have to give him credit for kicking Cardinal Bernard Law out of the Vatican and forcing him to retire. That is a good sign.

I have my fingers crossed his is actually going to do something, but I have been disappointed before.

Cheryl:

Do you believe that Pope Benedict XVI should not be prosecuted for his crimes of covering up for Marcel Marciel and Lawrence C Murphy? Do you believe he should not be prosecuted for his parts in the cover up of two of the most evil child rapists in the church? He sat on the info for Marcel for over 20 years before he did anything. Meanwhile Marcel raped his own children, he raped seminary students and caused all kinds of evil to others. Murphy raped dozens of deaf children, Benedict knew about it and was responsible to put a stop to it, but he did nothing.

Do you believe Cardinal Timothy Dolan should get away with allowing Fr Becker to have gotten away with what he did? Do you believe it was right for him to pay known rapists of children 20 grand to disappear even though he said it was so they would not fight lactization? Or that he took millions of dollars and moved it each time before the church was sued as to protect the money from lawsuits?

Do you believe any of the Cardinals who did the cover ups should escape justice?

You seem to not really know what is going on in the very church you belong to, or you have your head buried in the sand.

About 80% of the Bishops and Cardinals in the United States participated in the cover ups. In the U.S. alone, 3,763 priests and nuns were credibly accused of raping or abusing children. Yet most of them avoided prosecution because the Cardinals and Bishops moved them around and did not even warn the parishioners about these priests and nuns and in doing so, the statue of limitations, because of their actions expired and thereby they escaped prosecution.

Do you think anyone, no matter who they are, even if they are the very leaders of your church, should avoid prosecution for the rapes of children?

" Atheist show me proof"

A religious defender demanding proof? That's one of the funniest things I've read in a long time. Faith requires no proof. Faith and Fact are at opposite ends of the spectrum.

Interesting to note that the church is not mandated to report abuse of children if the information of the abuse is received during the sacrament of confession. Note that confessing one's sins to a priest who then provides absolution on the part of God is strictly a Catholic practice.

So, if Father Pete confesses to Father Tim that he has been sexually abusing the altar boys every Sunday for the past 20 years, Father Tim does not have to report it.

Convenient, huh?

I have a palm that wants to have a meeting with your forehead.

i think your palms schedule is already book with the priest at your local church

Taintted, was that really called for? Clearly makessense is simply trying to give Pippo a 'blessing'.

Churches in Italy are open all days and free to the public, people can just scrape the gold off the walls to get rich.

Except that Pope Francis I would probably be the LAST pope to acquire and amass wealth from the Catholic Church. His platform is for the support of the poor; he has already told the Cardinals that he does not wish to wear expensive garments and that the Catholic Church, being the richest Church on earth, needs to offload some of that to help end world hunger and poverty.

Read what Saint Francis stood for...and it wasn't for amassing great wealth.

Secondly, the Catholic Doctrine that requires only men can be priests is really based on the fact that Jesus had no formal Disciples or Apostles that were women. Pope John Paul and his Cardinals pretty much gave that as the reason women were not going to be allowed to be priests -- based on culture from Jesus' day and time. The Catholic Church is going to need to get into the 21st Century if it hopes to stop the dwindling pool of candidates for the priesthood, and the fact that many Catholics are leaving their churches in droves. Believe me, I know. I often say I am a Recovering Catholic. I think the problem is not in the practice of your Faith, whatever that faith may be; it is organized religion that mucks it up.

The early church allowed priests, including bishops and popes, to marry. The reason it was changed was the same reason that anything in the world ever is, and it has absolutely nothing to do with the bible or "scripture" or anything that jesus had to say. As always, follow the money. Priests were among the wealthiest and most powerful men of their day, especially in the Middle Ages. They were in the business of selling dispensations and running what we would call today a protection racket, so they were raking it in hand over fist. Married priests, however, usually had children, and wealthy fathers tended to leave their wealth to their sons, many of whom had no desire to become priests themselves.

When a particular pope---can't remember his name or the exact date---who wasn't very interested in women himself realized how much money the church was losing by priests leaving their fortunes to their sons, he simply claimed that gawd had sent him an infallible order that priests could no longer marry. It made him look like a super-holy dude instead of a likely homosexual, which is probably what he actually was, and ended the flow of protection money and get-out-of-hell-free money that the church was raking in from going back out the door in inheritance. And here we are, over a thousand years later, acting like this really was a message from above instead of a scam to get and keep more cathedral-building cash.

What I find even more fascinating, though, is that he talks about "if a priest gets a woman pregnant" he should leave the priesthood. He must seriously expect that if a priest has an affair, it will be with a woman, and that despite the mortal sin of violating his vow of chastity, he's still going to balk at having the woman use contraception. Seriously. And he makes no mention of that well-documented fact that, of the priests who violate their vows, those who engage in consensual affairs with adult women are the minority. Those who violate the vow of chastity generally do so with other males, either children or young men.

Wall of Separation-- well said. Too few Catholics know their own history. Having been one, I can tell you that learning the true history of the church was not encouraged. Nor was reading of the Bible. It was the same for my mother. The same for my children (now in their 20s). The last thing the catholic church wants it's members to do is think or question.

If they even read & studied the bible they purport to be following.... instead of traditions of men (tradition, a term they use frequently) they wouldn't have stopped these men from marrying in the first place....

Where would these verses categorize these people?...

1 Timothy 4
Douay-Rheims Bible

Warnings against False Teachers

1 Now the Spirit manifestly saith, that in the last times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to spirits of error, and doctrines of devils, 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy, and having their conscience seared, 3 Forbidding to marry, to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving by the faithful, and by them that have known the truth. 4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be rejected that is received with thanksgiving: 5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

Following the bible? Or their own twisted tradition?

And the Apostle (Simon) Peter was married!!

Mark 1
Douay-Rheims Bible

29 And immediately going out of the synagogue they came into the house of Simon and Andrew, with James and John. 30 And Simon's wife's mother lay in a fit of a fever: and forthwith they tell him of her. 31 And coming to her, he lifted her up, taking her by the hand; and immediately the fever left her, and she ministered unto them.

If you claim to be God's mouthpiece.... shouldn't you at least know what is contained in the word you claim to follow?

"If they even read & studied the bible they purport to be following..."

Hey, guess what? Jesus and the apostles didn't have Bibles. The first Christians didn't have Bibles either. The Church existed before the Bible did. It was the Church that approved and assembled the books that went INTO the Bible. In addition to the Bible, the early Church was also governed by sacred tradition and custom going back to the apostles. As for celibacy, there most certainly is a Scriptural basis for it, though for several centuries after Christ, it was mandatory only for monastics. St. Paul advocated it for those who could bear it. Nice that you left that bit out from your Bible quotes.

Happy to see you quoted from the Douay version which is the scriptures used by Roman Catholics. My King James and NIV say the same thing. I could never understand the "no meat on Friday rule"...which is a man-made rule (see # 3 and 4 above). As my pastor says (yes, I am a Protestant), rather than give something up for Lent, take something up, i.e., do something of service at a nursing home.

St. Paul 'advocated' it for those who could bear it. Advocated is not the same as mandatory. And yes, I know 'that bit' too. It is true that the Bible recommends singleness as a desirable course for some. However, the Bible does not require that Christian ministers be celibate. The apostle Peter and other responsible men in the early Christian congregation were married men. Therefore, compulsory celibacy has no basis in Scripture.

And yes, Jesus & his followers had written scrolls... their bibles... to use & quote from. Jesus said many times 'it is written' and then quoted bible verses, especially ones pertaining to prophecy that he was fulfilling and when refuting Satan.

Hans-285771 - and what was the first requirement that Paul listed when listing qualifications for any minister in the church?

peter left his wife to follow Christ

Truett, 1 Tim 3:1 - for the office of a bishop - 1 blameless, 2 the husband of one wife......15 one that rules his own house well, having his children in......

The Roman Catholics agree that their first pope was a married man, but feel that marriage could 'dilute' the work of a priest. I guess if you've never been married, you could jump on that bandwagon. I am married, and disagree strongly. No mandatory celebacy is found in scripture.

Jesus told his disciples to fast "after the bridegroom is gone" if he didnt want us to fast he would not have said"dont fast while the bridegroom is with you" he would have said not to fast "anymore" so abstaining from meat on occasion as a fast is biblical

@boom do you know the daily requirements of a priest? i think it would be quite unfair to a family to be deprived of the man of the house that much, its kind of like a policeman, alot of divorce there because the policeman is away from his family so much

True, apples. My point is that scripture never requires celibacy from any believer. Paul agrees with your statement as well, but allows that if not able to remain celibate, they marry. He is quite clear about the requirements for bishops and deacons in the book of Timothy, i.e. the husband of one wife, and having your house/children in order...

In any event this argument that it is unfair to the priest doesn't make sense. No one forced them to be priest in the first place. They also have the option of becoming a deacon and deacons can get married.

In any event being married will bring it's own set of problems for some and then people who have a problem with the church will have something else to complain about.

apples-n-oranges - First show me in scripture that peter left his wife and family.....it is not there, only in tradition and we know what paul said about tradition. Then how many of those "daily requirements" are requirements backed by scripture and how many are simply invented by the catholic church?

If people recall the history of the catholic priests: they were allowed to marry all except their head bishop. They could stay married providing thier missionary work did not cause them to stay longer than an overnite from their families. At that point, they had to stay with the church or leave the marriage. The Greek Catholic vocation remains that way to today.

I believe a priest or anyone can not judge a family situation unless they have walked in the same shoes. That doesn't mean the non married clergy can not advise, but giving strict direction without experience is one of the many factors younger people are leaving the church. Vintage will always be beautiful, but change is necessary if the Roman Catholic church wishes to remain as a source for the younger generation.

Robin-2931182

Thanks, Robin.... I love comparing many bibles. I go to Bible.cc

It has many translations to compare. Great for my research in the scriptures, which is constant and daily.

Y'all are forgetting one thing, celibacy is NOT mandatory. No one is forced to be a priest and no one is held to be less of a Christian because they can't handle a vow of celibacy. If you can't handle the celibate life, don't be a priest. Paul wasn't married so Truett and Boom, does that mean he wasn't qualified to be a minister? Maybe I'm wrong but I think those qualifications were if you're married, the husband of one wife, otherwise as I said Paul wouldn't have qualified to be a minister. I am not a Catholic but do care that Biblical exegesis be done correctly and Truett and Boom are wrong. The Bible doesn't require ministers to be married, that would mean Jesus wasn't qualified, and the Catholic church is not forbidding anyone to marry. Those who enter the priesthood do so voluntarily.

Robin, typical arrogant Protestant retort!

Christ told Peter that what he "bounds on earth, he so also binds in heaven, and what he loosens on earth is so loosened in heaven." This allows man-made rules to have legitimacy in God's Church.

Protestants have no concept of sin. You all think it's ok to sin and have no sorrow for your iniquities since CHrist "already paid off my debt." Yaahhh -- you Protestants think that every time a nail or thorn pushed further into our Lord's flesh. All of our sins were the weight and payment paid by Christ -- it's just that Catholics (the real Christians) have a guilt for contributing to the sorrow endured by our Savior in His Passion and Death.

So, you mock the Catholic tradition of no meat on Fridays as a penance and respect to Christ giving His life for us on a Friday?

All humans are weak; we all would become lax if it weren't for rules. At least the Roman Catholic Church mandated a weekly penance (that's right, Catholics acknowledge humans still commit sin). Protestants do/say/believe whatever is convenient and then base it only on a Biblical passage if the pastor or big-mouthed laity leader changes his mind on what to do.

It's a likelihood that if God Himself appeared to humans today, that the true Catholic would be humble and kneel down before Christ, ask for forgiveness and worship Him. The Protestant would shake His hand, give a 'high-five' and demand a seat at His table.

So you prove not to understand the concept of repentance for your sins. You follow the Catholic teaching that you can sin all you want as long as you go to the priest and say a few hail Mary's. One who truly accepts the payment for their sins that Christ made on the cross truly repents of their sins and attempts to live their life in accordance with Christ teachings including avoidance of sin. As for your "penance" of Fridays, it is not a penance you do but simply a ritual based on nothing but man's ideas and not directed of God. There are those of protestant teachings and of catholic teachings who feel no sorrow for their sins, that is why Christ said that there will be those to whom he will say depart from me for I know you not. And there will be those in both protestant and catholic groups who fit this and there will be those in both groups to whom he will say welcome home.

It would appear that gimme is a religious snob.

Robin, not eating meat on Fridays is a practice intended to make people more mindful of what the poor suffer. Doing things like fasting or abstaining from meat--while not a substitute for practical good works such as donating money or time for the relief of fellow humans who suffer from want--reminds us that we are here to serve others, not ourselves. The idea is to become more selfless and giving to other human beings. Many eastern and western religions over the centuries have incorporated practices like this.

@truettcollins. Please refer to Matt 18:21. Peter asks Jesus how many times should he, Peter, forgive his brother, advancing his own assessment: "Seven times?" Jesus answers: "Amen I say to you, not seven times but seventy times seven (or seventy-seven times, depending on the translator). Thus the priest is bound by The Master's words to forgive as many times as necessary, whether the sinner is truly repentant or not, that will be his (the sinner's) problem with The Lord.

Back in my altar boy days, a priest who used to tell me: "It's easier to give up to temptation than to fight it." (No, I have never been molested, nor knew or heard of anyone who would have been).

For the little story, I don't think that I have used up my "seventy times seven" yet.

Gimme,

Rather than bashing fellow believers maybe you should study a little bit about what Protestants believe. Of course there are some Protestants who use grace as an excuse to keep sinning but there are Catholics who use confession as an excuse to keep sinning. Since both Christian sects are full of humans, you will find failure in either one. But Martin Luther protested the Catholic Church over the issue of indulgences, the idea that if one gives enough money it is ok to sin. Thus protestantism was founded because the Catholic Church was involved in the things you accuse Protestants of doing. Both Protestants and Catholics hold to fundamental orthodox Christianity. Maybe one group is closer to the truth than the other but there is no need to attack either group.

Apostle Peter was married. Proof: Matthew 8:14, Mark 1:30, Luke 4:38

tick...tick...tick...

Must be off work today

Guess you groupies will just have to wait at the back door a little longer this time, eh?

So what if the 50yr old's wife doesn't want to give up the sexual aspect of marriage. I am in my 40's and men in their 50's have plenty of sex drive. I think what you are suggesting is ludicrous.

Krakondack, what century did you step out of?

Your sexy....mommy!

i think what good could come out of allowing priests to be married is a greater supply of candidates. then maybe they could be more thorough in investigating them to prevent pedophiles from getting in, still could make celibacy an option.

Anyone who chooses can be celibate. You just live your life that way. No need to make it an "option". Priests who do not wish to have sex, just DON'T.

You vile creep.

Actually, there is a history of this happening.

Married may also branch out into the states/countries that have legitimized same sex marriages; talk about a slippery slope. I don't think they want to open the marriage door anytime soon, unless it is strictly a man and a woman union.

I am no supporter of the Catholic Church continuing to force celibacy on ordained priests who were born, raised or converted into the religion since they already allow for married individuals to become priests after they convert.

I am trying to understand this sentence. Who told you that if they are married and convert they can become priest?

The Marionite Catholic Priest can be married if they are married before they become priest, otherwise they remain unmarried.

The only married men who are allowed to become priests are those of those FEW protestant sects which already ordain priests according to the qualifications which the Catholic church regards as valid. ie, Lutheran, Anglican, etc. Sects which were once Catholic but left the RCC. I suspect that a Jewish priest would also be accepted, but I know of none who have converted to Catholicism. BTW, a Jewish priest is NOT the same as a rabbi. Most rabbis are not priests, nor are priests automatically a rabbi, but I suspect many are.

Matilda Tuscany - No, 6 foot tall mom is correct. There are a number of rites in communion with Rome that allow married men to become priests--Maronite being one of them. (Read the article.)

Why would a married Jewish priest be allowed to become a Catholic priest? What about Shinto or Hindu priests, then?

I'm not sure where matilda got her information from.

Redirectedfury, my personal favorite thing about the Church's "Gallileo issue" is that when he died, the Church buried him OUTSIDE the church of Santa Croce in Firenze. Years later, when it was undeniable that he was correct, they exhumed him and moved him INSIDE. Pretty sure he could not have cared less at that point!

Maybe because I'm not Catholic- I don't get why Catholic priests cannot marry- in Greek Orthodoxy- they have married priests- but they have to be married before they become ordained. I've actually learned something from reading these posts such as the Catholic church permitting married priests convert to Catholocism - but I find that pretty hypocritical - I don't see much difference in having a man marry prior to ordination vs. a married man converting to Catholocism.

As for pedophiles- that has nothing whatsoever to do with being homosexual or heterosexual. My problem with the church on this one is that they covered it up (by moving priests around) and they put themselves above secular law (last I heard it is illegal to have sex with children). I wish I could recall- but hasn't the Vatican on occasion recalled priests (who were in trouble with the law) to Vatican City- putting them outside the reach of law enforcement.

For those interested- some interesting reads

One- on the Great Schism and the second on clerical celibacy.

Stay classy PkpseNY. Everyone has the freedom to comment. Just because one is not a Catholic doesn't mean we cannot have opinions. You can question the validity of those opinions, but not the right! I'm sure you have many opinions about Protestantism, Politics, etc,. without having membership in those arenas. Get over yourself.

citizen,

we should all be grateful for our right to free speech. but it is a real stretch for you to suggest that PkpseNY is arguing against it even though you are well within your rights to do so. however, just because you have the right to say any stupid, offensive, inflammatory, or foolish thing you want, doesn't mean that (by being adult, responsible, civilized, respectful, cogizant of futility, etc. -- just fill in the blank), you HAVE to say it.

In Short....STFU and go away!

When the CC decides to quit trying to dictate how we run our country, I'll ignore them. I'm sure if any other foreign country were to try to do it, you'd be screeching to anyone who would listen.

Interesting perspective, redphish. i hadn't heard anyone say that since those catholics were stockpiling weaponry in the vestibules of every church, to take us all over the moment JFK was elected. you may be onto something.

Where did I say they were stockpiling weapons? The Vatican constantly tries to coerce their followers to into follow church doctrine in the way they vote under the threat of excommunication if they dare exercise independent thought. Fortunately, many American Catholics ignore them out of hand.

actually....hes probably correct with that assumption

@Singletermlimitsforeveryone- Notice I say, right to question validity of opinions, i.e. hateful, stupid, etc. Second, the way PkpseNY ended by saying..."so STFU" seems fairly clear that he/she limits any and all dialog, stupid, smart and otherwise. I agree with you on the value of statements, sure, undoubtedly, some should never be said. But that is the price of freedom of speech, stupid things, unwarranted things are said. However, we put up with such foolishness for the sake of hearing real wisdom and valuable insights in the midst of it all. "STFU" seems to circumvent all discussion. It's, in short, dictatorial. Ironic given PkpseNY is also giving an opinion as he/she should also have a right to!!!

a good rule to go by is, if you dont have something helpful to say best not say anything at all.

the posters comment was that most of these post do not help but in fact hurt any efforts to bring about reform

if you don't believe in God, the Catholic Church or believe the Church is corrupt and full of pedophiles then ignore it and move onto something else

"Ignore it?'' Isn't that what you Catholics are already doing?

@PkpseNY

How typical. Free Speech is Free so long as one does not talk about religion; yeah free speech indeed.

Turning a blind eye to a negative problem will only make it worse.

Learn to think for yourself; if you are capable of doing that.

redphish, what are you smoking?

How is the CC dictating how to rule America? The Church is about spiritual salvation and Truth. The fact abortion, death sentences, homosexual acts, pornography, et al. run rampant in the USA under the guise/protections of the COnstitution is the problem.

As we see more and more, the Constitution allows subversive/taboo/disgusting behaviors to exist. If the society becomes "bottom-dwelling" (today's world), the Constitution reflects it, not ensures a society staws out of the gutter (the role of the Catholic Church).

PkpseNY, we care because the Catholic Church spends so much time "caring" about us. As in no one should be able to get an abortion because the (allegedly) celibate men in dresses think we should not do that. As in same sex couples should not be able to marry or adopt children because the (allegedly) celibate men in dresses think they should not. As in American NUNs (who are after all Catholic) are persecuted because they think helping the poor is more important than addressing the aforementioned issues.

Gimmeabreak

What are YOU smoking? As we see more and more, the Constitution allows FREEDOM to exist. Without the Constitution, we could become a theocracy and revert to the Dark Ages.

Justin B

I think Gimmeabreak would be happier living in Iran, haha

Gimmeabreak, what ARE you smoking? The Constitution of the United States allows subversive/taboo/disgusting behaviors to exist?

The way many of us see it, the Catholic Church for centuries has allowed subversive/taboo/disgusting behaviors to exist. Unless you view priests engaging in oral and anal sex with young boys as that special Catholic version of "spiritual salvation and truth" you seem so proud of.

Hey Mouse, that's funny!

Logic and faith are incompatible.

Do you live in a vacuum? The majority of adult-child sex interactions are by married heterosexuals.

Hypocrisy -- "teaching the Bible" so perfectly as the loosy-goosey Evangelical sects?

Laughable and an insult to God.

Assuming your version is the only correct one and being disdainful and dismissive of all others:

Laughable and an insult to God.

Yes, it is.

"wiki.answers.com/Q/What_does_the_Bible_say_about_a_man_spilling_his_seed_on_the_ground_or_putting_it_in_the_belly_of_a_whore"

Yes. According to the Bible, prostitution is preferable to masturbation.

Catholic Church rulebook nonsense.

Congratulations, granny, on your escape. So far as the phoney "purity" of the priests is concerned, does it matter if these "consecrated hands" have been used to play with a young boy's private parts, or to prevent a young boy from escaping while the priest rapes him?

"...consecrated hands"?! What a load of crap! That wasn't what it was about. It was about money and land. I applaud you for getting away. I did as well. So much hypocritical garbage. Some traditions are beautiful and part of ceremony, but that one was nothing but greed. The Church always tries putting a "holy" spin on things that were done for other and not always righteous reasons.

nice STORY granny too bad its not true, the priests state of sin is not relevant to consecrating the bread and wine at communion, any ways right before he offers up the bread and wine to be changed to the body and blood, he washes his hands and says a prayer" Lord cleanse me from my sin, wash away my iniquities"

Every human - male or female - can be the cause of sin in any other human.

Swallow your pride. Women can be the downfall of men sexually. Proven fact of life. Just as the sex-driven TV shows of today that show shirtless men, strippers can also lead to the spiritual downfall of pure women.

So much what is missing in the modern world -- humility. Yet the modern world is convinced telling itself that logic and technology are our saviors...good luck with that.

Gimme-

What a crock. If you do something 'sinful' don't blame it on anybody but yourself.

Apparently the Song of Solomon was not in the Catholic Bible.

Wow, gimme

You make arrogant comments declaring what is fact and what is the right way to do things, then say we all need more humility? LOL. No, really. ROFL.

Pope "Innocent VIII". LOL, that's FUNNY!!!