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  • 7
    Dec
    2012
    7:09am, EST

    Clinton condemns violence, revisits family legacy in trip to Belfast

    Kevin Lamarque / Reuters

    Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton meets Friday with Northern Ireland First Minister Peter Robinson, right, and Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness, left, at Stormont Castle in Belfast on Friday.

    By NBC News and wire reports

    Updated at 10:25 a.m. ET: BELFAST — Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton on Friday condemned a wave of street violence in Northern Ireland, saying it showed the peace process she has long supported in the British province was not yet complete.

    Making one of her last foreign trips in her current job, she visited a province transformed by the 1998 peace agreement that her husband Bill Clinton helped bring about in what was regarded as one of the greatest successes of his presidency.

    But Northern Ireland remains riven by sectarian tensions and Clinton arrived in a week that has seen three riots, the seizure of a bomb over 62 miles outside Belfast, and the arrest of four militant nationalists.


    The latest riot erupted Thursday night when a policeman was injured after protesters hurled missiles to vent their anger against nationalist councilors who voted to remove the British flag atop Belfast City Hall.

    'It pains me': Clinton decries plight of women in male-dominated countries

    Police said Friday that four men were arrested after a "viable bomb" was recovered from a car in a nationalist area of Derry overnight. A letter bomb was also found in a County Down postbox with the capacity "to kill or cause serious injury."

    "It has been a sad reminder unfortunately that despite how hardy the peace has been, there are still those who not only would test it but try to destroy it," Clinton said.

    "I really commend the leaders and citizens who have condemned the violence— and I join them in condemning it — to remind us all that peace comes through dialogue and debate, not violence," she added.


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    Important for 2016?
    However, Clinton's visit, during which politicians from both sides of the political divide briefed her on the peace process, was a reminder of the huge popularity of her family in Ireland, a potential asset in attracting the Irish-American vote if Clinton decided to run for the U.S. presidency in 2016.

    The province has suffered one of the world's worst property market crashes and its leaders are hoping for the kind of U.S. foreign investment that has transformed the rest of Ireland.

    "Our need is more economic now than political," said Reg Empey, Chairman of the Ulster Unionist Party, who was a senior figure in the peace process.

    Cops hurt as British unionist protesters try to storm Belfast City Hall in flag spat

    "But we also have to be aware that there is still a degree of volatility ... and in those circumstances I think we should make sure we keep the relationship going," he said.

    Peace process
    Hillary Clinton traveled to Northern Ireland several times in the mid-1990s while her husband helped broker the 1998 Good Friday peace accord. His hands-on approach was widely recognized as crucial at moments when the agreement looked like crumbling.

    Bill Clinton's work helped win over the Irish vote during his re-election campaign in 1996 and his popularity among Irish-Americans could rub off on his wife if she needed it.

    Clinton on Thursday told journalists in Dublin she was "too focused on what I'm doing" to think about a run for the presidency and declined to comment on U.S. newspaper reports that her husband may be appointed as Washington's next ambassador to the Republic of Ireland.

    Complete World coverage on NBCNews.com

    Personal ties
    As first lady, Clinton lent support to pro-peace women's groups in Northern Ireland and visited people wounded in the 1998 Omagh bombing, the deadliest attack in three decades of violence commonly known as the "Troubles."

    At least 3,600 people were killed during that time as Catholic nationalists seeking union with Ireland fought British security forces and mainly Protestant Loyalists determined to remain part of the United Kingdom.

    "The lessons learned here in Ireland about how to build peace could be of great use to other peoples and nations," Clinton said Thursday in a speech in Dublin in which she recalled a meeting between Catholic and Protestant women in Belfast in the 1990s.

    "There are so many more ties that bind us than divide us, and that is what has motivated me over many years now," she said.

    NBC News' Catherine Chomiak and Reuters contributed to this report.

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    26 comments

    She can stay there.

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    Explore related topics: ireland, northern-ireland, bill-clinton, hillary-rodham-clinton, peace-process, featured, belfast
  • 7
    Dec
    2012
    4:57am, EST

    'It pains me': Clinton decries plight of women in male-dominated countries

    Kevin Lamarque / AFP - Getty Images

    U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton delivers a speech "Frontlines and Frontiers: Making Human Rights a Human Reality" at Dublin City University in the Irish capital Thursday.

    By NBC News staff and wire reports

    In an emotional speech as she nears the end of her term of office, Hillary Clinton warned there would be "many sacrifices and losses" before daughters were "valued as sons" across the world, according to reporters traveling with the secretary of state.

    Clinton, speaking Thursday at Dublin City University in Ireland, was given a humanitarian award by the non-governmental organization Concern Worldwide, whose chief executive Tom Arnold hailed her as "one of the greatest" secretaries of state "in the history of the Republic."



    Follow @NBCNewsWorld

    Clinton spoke about what human rights meant to her personally, describing what it was like to be a female official visiting male-dominated countries.

    "As the mother of a daughter, and as someone who believes strongly in the right of every person, male and female, to have the opportunity to live up to his or her God-given potential," Clinton said, "it pains me so greatly when I travel to places around the world and am received almost as an exception to the rule, where the male leaders meet with me because I am the secretary of state of the United States, overlooking the fact that I also happen to be a woman."

    "We are on the right side of history in this struggle, but there will be many sacrifices and losses until we finally reach a point where daughters are valued as sons, where girls as educated as boys, where women are encouraged and permitted to make their contributions to their families, to their societies just as the men are," she added.

    'Moved' by Pakistan schoolgirl's story
    Clinton, who opened the school's new conflict resolution institute, picked out the case of Malala Yousufzai, a Pakistani schoolgirl shot by a Taliban gunman over her outspoken belief that girls should receive an education. Her activism started in 2008, when she was about 11 years old, and she wrote a blog for BBC News about her experiences.

    "All of us were moved by the story of the young Pakistani girl, Malala, who was targeted by the Taliban for the effrontery for going to school — more than that, speaking out for the rights of girls in Pakistan to go to school," Clinton said.

    'We are strong': Malala's wounded friends back in Pakistan school

    "She was miraculously spared from being literally shot in the face and is making what appears to be an excellent recovery," she added. "For every young woman whose name comes to our attention, there are countless others who suffer in silence, who face cultural and social and religious barriers to their human rights and dignity."

    Clinton said she did not mind that she had been called an idealist and also a realist.

    "In reality, I think we all need to be more of a hybrid, perhaps idealistic realists," she said. "Because leading effectively cannot be done without our values. And a great deal of what is happening today bears that out."

    Complete World coverage on NBCNews.com

    Clinton, who is standing down as secretary of state, said she had traveled to more "far-flung places than I could have imagined as a young girl growing up in the middle of America in the decades that followed World War II."

    "And I must say that among the most striking things that I have learned is how much we have in common," she said. "I've sat down with people everywhere, discussing what was in their hearts and on their minds. And it doesn't take long to find commonality which is often overlooked, ignored, dismissed, and rejected otherwise."

    Clinton chokes up
    Clinton choked up a little when speaking about "a great friend of mine," Inez McCormack, a labor leader in Northern Ireland who she said had worked to bring peace and reconciliation to an area blighted by sectarian conflict.

    "Inez lives in Derry, where she's fighting cancer, and I called her before coming here to check in on her, and asked her how she was doing," she said. "She's very brave and putting up with all the treatments, knowing that it's a hard road for her. And she did not want to talk about herself; she wanted to talk about her daughter, who moved up the date of her wedding, which made her very happy."

    Dozens of police hurt in Northern Ireland sectarian clashes

    "But she wanted to talk about how we had to keep working to bring people together so that they would recognize the common humanity and experience in the other," Clinton added.

    Clinton was due to travel to Northern Ireland Friday to lend support to a fragile peace that was one of the greatest successes of her husband's presidency.

    Cops hurt as British unionist protesters try to storm Belfast City Hall in flag spat

    She visits a province transformed by the 1998 peace agreement but still riven by sectarian loyalties, with a prison officer shot dead by nationalist militants last month and unionist protesters rioting over the removal of a British flag. 

    Reuters contributed to this report.

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    577 comments

    Hillary is spot on. People take it sometimes granted. The liberties, the freedoms, the equal opportunity.... it all is hard fought and every generation needs to fight to keep it that way. Same with women. Coming from India, I always thought that women were more equal in US. But after 12 years of st …

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    Explore related topics: human-rights, ireland, northern-ireland, featured, hillary-clinton, womens-rights, secretary-of-state
  • 23
    Nov
    2012
    1:47pm, EST

    New inquiry begins into case of woman who died after she was refused abortion in Ireland

    Hundreds of women in Ireland are protesting, calling for legislative change after the death of Savita Halappanavar, who died after her requests for an abortion were rejected by her Irish doctors. NBC's Jim Maceda reports.

    By Lorraine Turner and Conor Humphries, Reuters

    DUBLIN, Ireland - Ireland has opened a new investigation into the death of a woman denied an abortion of her dying foetus, as the government scrambled to stem criticism of its handling of an incident that polarised the overwhelmingly Catholic country.


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    Savita Halappanavar, a 31-year-old dentist, was admitted to hospital in severe pain on Oct. 21 and asked for a termination after doctors said her baby would not survive, according to her husband, but in a country with some of the world's most restrictive abortion laws, surgeons would not remove the foetus until its heartbeat stopped days later.

    He husband, Praveen Halappanavar believes the delay contributed to the blood poisoning that killed his wife on Oct. 28. He has said he would not cooperate with an investigation already launched by the country's health service because he did not believe it would be neutral.


    On Friday, the Health Information and Quality Authority (HIQA) watchdog, which is government-funded but independent of the state health service, said it had also launched an investigation after receiving information from the health service and University Hospital Galway, where Halappanavar died.

    A solicitor acting on behalf of the husband said the new inquiry was unlikely to be enough to satisfy his client.

    "My client has always made his position very clear ... He wants a public inquiry. He has made it clear he wants to get to the truth of the matter, so I don't think that the framework of HIQA will suffice," Gerard O'Donnell, told RTE radio.

    AFP - Getty Images

    Savita Halappanavar is shown in a photo received from the Irish Times.

    He added that the next step would be to consider an application to the European Court of Human Rights, which criticized Ireland's abortion ban in 2010.

    Halappanavar's death has reopened a decades-long debate over whether the government should legislate to explicitly allow abortion when the life of the mother is at risk.

    Irish law does not specify exactly when the threat to the life of the mother is high enough to justify a termination, leaving doctors to decide. Critics say this means doctors' personal beliefs can play a role.

    Though the influence of the Catholic Church over Irish politics has waned since the 1980s, successive governments have been loath to legislate on an issue they fear could alienate conservative voters.

    Ireland's abortion stance is enshrined in a 1983 constitutional amendment that intended to ban abortion in all circumstances. In 1992, when challenged in the "X-case" involving a 14-year-old rape victim, the Supreme Court ruled that abortion was permitted when the woman's life was at risk, including from suicide.

    But successive governments refused to make clear the circumstances under which a threat would make an abortion legal. After several challenges, the European Court of Human Rights ruled in 2010 that Ireland must clarify its position.

    Prime Minister Enda Kenny, whose ruling Fine Gael party made an election pledge not to introduce new laws allowing abortion, said last week he would not be rushed into a decision on the issue.

    The government was forced into an embarrassing u-turn this week when it removed three Galway-based consultants from the health service inquiry following criticism from Praveen Halappanavar.

    The issue has raised tensions between Fine Gael and the more socially liberal Labour Party, its junior coalition partner, which has campaigned for a clarification of the country's abortion rules.

    The country's president, Michael D. Higgins, a former member of the Labour Party, weighed into the debate this week when he said an investigation was needed that satisfied the dead woman's family.

    Opposition party Sinn Fein introduced a motion to parliament on Wednesday calling for parliament to legislate on abortion, but it was rejected.

    "Successive governments over the past 20 years have failed in respect of legislation. That failure is in large measure due to fear or cowardice," said Mary Lou McDonald, vice president of Sinn Fein. 

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    Copyright 2013 Thomson Reuters. Click for restrictions.

    574 comments

    Two lives lost, when one could have been saved - all in the name of a religious BELIEF!!!! That's disgusting!!!!!

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    Explore related topics: ireland, abortion, savita-halappanavar
  • 14
    Nov
    2012
    2:25pm, EST

    Tragic Savita case reignites abortion debate in Ireland

    Hundreds of women in Ireland are protesting, calling for legislative change after the death of Savita Halappanavar, who died after her requests for an abortion were rejected by her Irish doctors. NBC's Jim Maceda reports.

    By NBC News staff and wire reports

    Updated at 12:21 a.m. ET: A debate over abortion has flared in Ireland over the case of Savita Halappanavar, a miscarrying woman suffering from blood poisoning who was refused a quick termination of her pregnancy and died in a hospital.

    AFP - Getty Images

    This handout picture received from the Irish Times on November 14, 2012 shows Indian national Savita Halappanavar who died after being refused a termination of her pregnancy at a hospital in Galway.

    The 31-year-old's case highlights a bizarre legal trap in which pregnant women facing severe health problems in predominantly Catholic Ireland may find themselves.

    It also prompted widespread anger, including protests in Dublin outside Ireland’s parliament, the Dáil Éireann. About 400 people gathered for a candelit vigil for Halappanavar in Cork, in the south of Ireland, the Irish Times reported.

    Ireland's constitution officially bans abortion, but a 1992 Supreme Court ruling found it should be legalized for situations when the woman's life is at risk from continuing the pregnancy. Five governments since have refused to pass a law resolving the confusion, leaving Irish hospitals reluctant to terminate pregnancies except in the most obviously life-threatening circumstances.

    Opposition politicians appealed Wednesday for Prime Minister Enda Kenny's government to introduce legislation immediately to make the 1992 Supreme Court judgment part of statutory law. Barring any such bill, the only legislation defining the illegality of abortion in Ireland dates to 1861 when the entire island was part of the United Kingdom. That British law, still valid here due to Irish inaction on the matter, states it is a crime to "procure a miscarriage."

    Halappanavar, an Indian dentist living in Galway since 2008, was 17 weeks along in her pregnancy when she was admitted to the hospital.

    University Hospital Galway in western Ireland declined to say whether doctors believed Halappanavar's blood poisoning could have been reversed had she received an abortion rather than wait for the fetus to die on its own. In a statement it described its own investigation into the death, and a parallel probe by the national government's Health Service Executive, as "standard practice" whenever a pregnant woman dies in a hospital. The Galway coroner also planned a public inquest.


    Halappanavar's husband, Praveen, said doctors determined that she was miscarrying within hours of her hospitalization for severe pain on Sunday, Oct. 21. He said that over the next three days doctors refused their requests for a termination of her fetus to combat her own surging pain and fading health.


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    "Savita was really in agony. She was very upset, but she accepted she was losing the baby," her husband told The Irish Times in a telephone interview from Belgaum, southwest India. "When the consultant came on the ward rounds on Monday morning, Savita asked: 'If they could not save the baby, could they induce to end the pregnancy?' The consultant said: 'As long as there is a fetal heartbeat, we can't do anything.'"

    "Again on Tuesday morning ... the consultant said it was the law, that this is a Catholic country. Savita said: "I am neither Irish nor Catholic," but they said there was nothing they could do," Praveen Halappanavar was quoted as saying.

    He said his wife vomited repeatedly and collapsed in a restroom that night, but doctors wouldn't terminate the fetus because its heart was still beating.

    The fetus died the following day and its remains were surgically removed. Within hours, Praveen Halappanavar said, his wife was placed under sedation in intensive care with systemic blood poisoning and he was never able to speak with her again. By Saturday, her heart, kidneys and liver had stopped working and she was pronounced dead early Sunday, Oct. 28.

    In case you haven't heard who #savita is, here's the Irish Times article. Enough's enough. irishtimes.com/newspaper/fron…

    — Tara Flynn (@TaraFlynn) November 14, 2012

    Praveen Halappanavar said he took his wife's remains back to India for a Hindu funeral and cremation on Nov. 3. News of the circumstances that led to her death emerged Tuesday in Galway after the Indian community canceled the city's annual Diwali festival. Savita had been one of the festival's organizers.

     At the vigil in Cork, child psychologist Mary Phelan told The Irish Times that she was furious about what had happened.

    "I couldn't find the words to describe how I felt, I was so outraged when I heard what happened to this poor woman," Phelan said. "I feel mortified in front of the world that we have stood by and allowed this happen in our country today. I think we should all be hanging our heads in shame."

    Ivana Bacik, a pro-choice advocate and law professor at Trinity College in Dublin, echoed what many others on Wednesday: "I think there's a clear indication that governments' failure to legislate over a period of years is largely responsible for the uncertainty around the law," she told the Guardian.

    Bacik was successfully prosecuted in the 1990s for “providing information” about abortions in England, according to the Guardian. She was nearly sent to jail.

    History of birth control in Ireland
    Until recently, Ireland’s social and professional worlds were hugely enmeshed with the Catholic church. In the 1980s, teachers applying for a job had to submit their priest as a reference, and it wasn’t until 1979 that condoms were legal – and then only by prescription, according to Irish Family Planning Association, the country’s leading sexual health charity.  

    It wasn’t until 1993 that condoms could be purchased in vending machines.

    Abortion has been mostly ignored in the political sphere – largely because women may leave the country for the procedure. In 2011, more than 4,000 women traveled to England; about 1,500 went to the Netherlands between 2005 and 2009. Other estimates say about 7,000 women leave the Ireland every year to terminate a pregnancy.

    But even traveling has been difficult. In 2007, a pregnant 17-year-old dubbed “Miss D” said she wanted an abortion after learning that her fetus had anencephaly, according to irishhealth.com. That meant the baby’s brain would not fully develop and that the baby would most likely die in utero or within hours or days of its birth.   

    A social worker told Miss D she couldn’t travel to England, and that police would ban her physically if necessary. Miss D sued and was ultimately able to leave the country.

    NBC's Isolde Raftery and The Associated Press contributed to this report.

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    615 comments

    We want to live our lives without these soft, cuddly moral values being imposed on us. It is true that abortion is a very brutal fact of human existence, but that doesn't somehow make it immoral. Nobody "decided" that abortion should be a fact of human life.

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  • 4
    Sep
    2012
    5:17am, EDT

    Dozens of police hurt in Northern Ireland sectarian clashes

    Peter Morrison / AP

    Masked loyalists gather before attacking police in North Belfast, Northern Ireland, on Sunday.

    By NBC News staff and wire reports

    Police in Northern Ireland fired plastic bullets and water cannon on rioters late on Monday in a second night of sectarian clashes between Catholics and Protestants that have injured dozens of police officers.

    Police fired controversial plastic rounds for the first time during the disturbances after protesters threw Molotov cocktails, fireworks, bricks and stones at officers trying to separate rival groups in north Belfast.



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    Rioters from the Protestant group hijacked a van at one point and pushed it at police lines. At least three of the injured officers were taken to a hospital.

    Riots often erupt during the summer months when Protestant groups hold traditional parades that are seen as provocative by nationalists, who want to be part of a united Ireland, and Catholics.

    The second night of disturbances over the last week followed a parade by Catholic Irish nationalists in an area where Protestant groups were recently barred from marching.

    At least 47 officers were hurt in clashes on Sunday in the dispute over the rights of the two communities to hold parades in the area. As many as nine were reportedly injured on Monday night.

    The Queen is making a historic visit to Northern Ireland as part of her Diamond Jubilee tour. She arrived in Enniskillen, the scene of one of the worst atrocities of The Troubles, and meet the Stormont deputy first minister, former IRA commander Martin McGuinness, in a gesture which will herald another milestone in Anglo-Irish relations. ITN's Martha Fairlie reports.

    Over the weekend, seven police officers were hurt in the same area when a Protestant band marched past a Catholic church playing music in defiance of a ban from the parades commission, which regulates marches in the province.

    Photos: Riots erupt in Northern Ireland

    Paramilitary violence between the province's mainly Catholic republicans and pro-British Protestants, which raged on and off for three decades, has largely ended since a peace agreement was signed in 1998, but much of Belfast remains socially divided along sectarian lines.

    The head of the Northern Ireland Police Federation, Terry Spence, praised the officers on the front lines. 

    Martin McGuinness, a former commander of the Irish Republican Army met with Queen Elizabeth in Northern Ireland. It was a historic moment decades after the IRA led a bloody fight against British rule. NBC's Michelle Kosinski reports.

    "Their bravery and courage is in stark contrast to that of the cowardly thugs responsible for trying to murder them," he said, according to BBC News. 

    Alban Maginness of the predominantly Catholic and moderate nationalist political party S.D.L.P., claimed that the riots were not spontaneous, the BBC reported.

    Violence flared for a second night running in Northern Ireland as Catholic youths clashed with police following Protestant parades. NBC's Yuka Tachibana reports.

    "The bulk of the violence over the past two days has, I believe, been sustained by loyalist paramilitaries," the BBC quoted him as saying. "I think this is an attempt to intimidate the lawful authorities."

    Police had blamed loyalists for the weekend's violence at a republican march, the BBC reported, adding that up to 350 loyalists had rioted. 

    Reuters contributed to this report. 

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    83 comments

    Christian barbarians at it again. Pull out all the police and let them have at each other. Thin the herd. The Sunni vs. Shiite have nothing on these fools. Funny how secular people seldom engage in these events.

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  • 31
    Aug
    2012
    9:17am, EDT

    Ireland austerity: Hospitals to send some patients home on weekends

    By NBC News staff

    Hospitals in Ireland will send some patients home at weekends after the country’s public health services announced a new round of deep cuts, according to a media report Friday.

    Cash-strapped hospitals will have to shut some wards on weekends as part of an effort to cut $44 million in spending on staff and overtime by the end of 2012, according to the Irish Independent.

    Slideshow: Austerity in Ireland

    Adam Patterson / Panos for nbcnews.com

    Irish voters share their views on austerity and the economy as they prepare to vote in a referendum on the European Union's new fiscal treaty.

    Launch slideshow

     


    'The country is on its knees': Ireland grapples with economic collapse

    The cuts were announced Thursday by senior staff at the Health Service Executive.

    The health service is facing cuts of $163 million across the service, reports said. Overall, the country's health system is running a $315 million deficit, according to the Irish Times.

    Officials said the staff shortages that the cuts would cause meant that more hospitals would have to operate "five-day" wards, according to the Independent.


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    That meant that patients assessed as "clinically suitable" would be sent home for weekends but would return to hospitals on Mondays.

    Ghost towns tell the story of Ireland's faded dream

    "Every effort has been made to target areas that do not impact on direct patient or client services," the newspaper quoted Laverne McGuinness of the Health Service Executive as saying.

    The disability organization Inclusion Ireland condemned the cuts.

    Full World News coverage on NBCNews.com

    Paddy Keogh, the chief executive, told the newspaper that the reductions would "push people back into their own homes."

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    83 comments

    Isn't government provided health care just terrific?

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    Explore related topics: economy, ireland, europe, health, hospitals, healthcare, disability, featured
  • 31
    May
    2012
    5:39am, EDT

    'The country is on its knees': Ireland grapples with economic collapse

    Adam Patterson / Panos for msnbc.com

    Carpenter Tony Kenny, 27, believes that continuing economic troubles in Ireland will force him to move to Australia to find work.

    By Ian Johnston, msnbc.com

    Updated on June 1: Ireland's voters agreed to ratify the European Union's deficit-fighting treaty with a resounding 60.3 percent "yes" vote, The Associated Press reported. About half of Ireland's 3.13 million registered voters participated in the referendum.

    Originally published on May 31: KILDARE, Ireland -- Families ripped apart, pay cuts, hundreds of thousands without work, homes lying empty, teenagers with little hope for the future: Many in Ireland have been brought to the brink of despair by a dramatic economic collapse and the harsh remedy prescribed by the European Union.

    But unique among the EU's 27 members, Irish voters were Thursday giving their verdict on the policies of austerity as a backlash grows across the continent in countries like Greece, Spain and France. 


    Both sides in the debate are playing the politics of fear. Ireland's coalition government and much of the establishment implore voters to agree to tight controls on the national debt -- contained in the "Fiscal Stability Treaty" -- warning that failing to do so would result in the EU refusing to provide any further bailout cash.

    The "no" campaign counters this is just scaremongering -- saying Ireland would not be cut adrift in time of need -- but engage in some of their own. Austerity will only lead to countless more years of hardship, they say, calling for policies to grow the economy.

    Polls put the "yes" campaign ahead, but both sides agree it will be close.

    Outside control of Irish affairs is a sensitive subject. Some talk angrily of Ireland surrendering sovereignty hard-won in the War of Independence with the U.K. to new political masters in Europe.

    Student Nadine Lynch describes seeing her friends leave the country for better economic prospects.

    Joe Kenny, 59, a former sergeant in the Irish army, is among those planning to vote no. "The country is on its knees ... austerity is not working," he told msnbc.com, as he stood in front of the abandoned barracks where he was once based in Kildare, about 30 miles west of Dublin.

    He believes that the fiscal treaty will give too much control of Ireland's future to the EU's leading nations, particularly economic powerhouse Germany.


    Follow @msnbc_world

    "They own us now. We've no control, no sovereignty, nothing," he said. "Angela Merkel [Germany's top lawmaker] ... put a little moustache on her and she's Hitler."

    It is a comparison others have made, however unfairly, but Kenny has reason to be angry. "My son is going to have to emigrate ... All our best are going to Australia or America," he said.

    Greek tragedy: Economic crisis sparks brain drain

    His carpenter son Tony Kenny, 27, said business was "drying up," but was stoical about moving overseas, as generations of Irish have done before him.

    Follow Ian Johnston

    "I suppose it has to be done, doesn't it?" said Kenny, who is married with two young daughters. "A few mates of mine are over in Perth [Western Australia]. The work is savage over there, they are booming. It would get me on my feet anyway."

    Unemployment rate triples
    Ireland's economy was once growing so fast it was dubbed the "Celtic Tiger." But the property bubble burst, the banks were thrown into crisis, the government got deep into debt spending billions to bail them out. Ordinary Irish people are now paying the price.

    New taxes -- including a Universal Social Charge paid by all citizens -- have been brought in and more are on the way, such as a new charge on water.

    According to the latest figures, the standardized unemployment rate was 14.3 percent -- about 430,000 people -- compared to just 4.5 percent in April 2007. Henry Healy, a distant cousin of Barack Obama, recently joined their ranks, according to a report on Tuesday.

    Signs of the economic collapse are all around with boarded up buildings and half-finished neighborhoods, particularly in the Dublin commuter-belt, which includes County Kildare. 

    The brick pillars at the entrance to the Coneyboro Estate in Athy, south of Kildare town, have a certain air of grandeur. But deeper into the neighborhood, it becomes clear something went badly wrong. Near-completed houses are empty, windows open, fireplaces ripped out. Weeds grow in the street and foundations lie unfinished.

    Ghost towns tell the story of Ireland's faded dream

    "Who wants to buy here? … These houses are worth nothing," said Athy town councillor Michael Dunne, the only elected Sinn Fein representative in County Kildare. "There's empty houses all over the place like this."

    Adam Patterson / Panos for msnbc.com

    Sinn Fein's only elected representative in County Kildare, Athy town councillor Michael Dunne, is campaigning for a "no" vote in Thursday's referendum.

    'Giving away our sovereignty'
    It's a palpable sign, he said, that "we're all victims of the recession." The developer was bankrupt, the unemployed and those whose salaries had been cut could not afford a new house, and the taxpayer might have to step in to finish the estate.

    "We cannot write austerity into our budget, that's going to be permanent, forever," Dunne warned. "As a Nationalist-minded person, a democratic socialist, I'm totally opposed to what's happening in the country and giving away our sovereignty to the Germans."

    A "no" vote, he said, would "raise the flag for the rest of Europe to follow suit." 

    According to Article 46 of the Irish Constitution, any amendments to it must be passed by both houses of the Oireachtas, or parliament, and then approved by a referendum. Thursday's vote is latest in a series about Ireland's relationship with the EU.

    Greeks withdraw $894 million in one day

    Another sign of the country's plight is the number choosing to make a new life in another country. In the year to April 2011, 76,400 people left Ireland, the highest number for at least 25 years and more than double the figure in 2006.

    It is a hard decision. For Ruth Lalor, 18, the ties of home are strong.

    "I would like to stay in Ireland. Australia … I know they've got a better life over there, but I really would find it hard leaving my friends and family," she told msnbc.com on Monday night from the sidelines of a Gaelic football match, pitting Kildare club Round Towers' second team against one from Castledermot.

    She would like to study physiotherapy, but cannot afford it and is working in a clothes store, hoping she will be able to do take a course in five years' time.

    Rising college fees
    With Lalor was Nadine Lynch, 18, an English and history student who works as a waitress. Lynch plans to leave Ireland as soon as she's finished her degree or when rising college fees force her to drop out.

    The pair have been friends since they were six and can hardly bear the thought of being parted. "She's coming in my bag with me," Lynch said. "I'm just living here day by day. I think about getting a degree and getting out of here, but if it gets better, obviously I'd like to come home."

    Adam Patterson / Panos for msnbc.com

    English and history student Nadine Lynch (right), 18, sits with her friend Ruth Lalor. Lynch plans to leave Ireland when she finishes her education and wants to take Lalor with her.

    Lalor, a talented Gaelic footballer, said she would probably not "bother" voting in the referendum, questioning whether it would "make a difference." Lynch said she was still making up her mind, but added "we fought for independence and now we're handing everything back to the EU."

    There was no good news on the field to lift their spirits, with Round Towers losing. They were playing "a bit bad" Monday, Lalor said.

    So much for the 'Spanish Dream': Euro crisis turns suburbs into ghost towns

    Jim Waters, a former Round Towers player and owner of Southwell's Stores in Kildare's central square, is one person determined to stay exactly where he is.

    The grocery and convenience store was opened in 1841 by Patrick Southwell, Waters' great-great grandfather.

    'The 1980s were worse'
    On Monday morning, Waters, 60, and his friends were playing a game of Gaelic football with an imaginary ball in the store and he was relatively unconcerned by all the gloomy talk.

    Like most of the small business owners that msnbc.com spoke to in the town, he plans to vote "yes".

    "Nothing lasts forever, this is my third [recession]. The 1980s were worse … after every recession there's a high."

    While the recession would come to an end, the shop would not, he insisted. "I cannot foresee that happening. There's always going to be a need for a shop," Waters said. "The future is safe, oh God yes."

    Adam Patterson / Panos for msnbc.com

    Jim Waters, 60, stands in his shop -- opened by an ancestor in 1841 -- in Kildare's central town square Monday morning.

    But, one of his suppliers, fellow "yes" voter and father-of-six John Leamy, 50, of nearby Newbridge, had a different tale to tell. "A lot of the businesses I was supplying are no longer there. My customer base has practically dried up," he said.

    Once he delivered candy to up to 40 clients, now he has 10 to 15 and has taken a second job. He has a different view of the Germans than people like Joe Kenny."I have a liking for Germany and the work ethic. I can understand why they are trying to protect what they have," Leamy said. "The whole European project … wouldn't have worked without them."

    He may be keeping his head above water, but others are struggling.

    A different Ireland
    Grace Coyle, 24, who lives in Naas, just up the road from Kildare town, spent a year travelling in Australia and the U.S. and returned home a very different Ireland in 2009.

    She was without a job for about 18 months, and then joined a Tus work-training scheme; Tus is Gaelic for start. It pays only a little extra above welfare, but Coyle said it had helped her get a couple of days a week working as an administrator with a security firm. "You need work … There's only so many times you can clean the house," she said.

    Slideshow: Austerity in Ireland

    Adam Patterson / Panos for msnbc.com

    Meet Grace Coyle and other people in Ireland facing renewed austerity in the European Union's new fiscal treaty.

    Launch slideshow

    Others, Coyle added, are not so industrious. "My cousin is 19 and she's living out on her own. She doesn't have any get-up-and-go in her and I see that in her friends," she said. 

    From the Irish Times: The treaty explained

    But she doesn't want Europe to impose extra financial rigor on Ireland, and plans to vote "no" in the referendum. "We're abiding by everything they're asking for … I don't want it to be written into the constitution, into the law."

    Her Tus supervisor, Adrian Brown, 50, knows what its like to be jobless. He had expected to work as a crane operator -- he spent eight years in New York City where he helped build Trump Tower -- until retiring. But on a cold Tuesday morning in Dublin in January 2009, Brown was called down from his crane and told the company had gone bust.

    He was out of work for about 16 months -- "the time spent at home, it's not a healthy time" -- but then went back to college and then got his current job.

    "There's a great sense of achievement … it's great to see lots of [people] taking their first step to getting back to work," he said.

    Adrian Brown, a supervisor at a Tus training scheme for the long-term unemployed, describes the mental toll of losing his job in 2009.

    Brown said he'd be voting "yes", but reluctantly. "We cannot bite the hand that feeds us."

    'I'm just coping'
    Staff at the County Kildare Leader Partnership, which overseas the Tus scheme, have had their pay cut by between 5 and 7.5 percent, in common with many in Ireland.

    Geraldine Meaney, 48, secretary at Scoil Na Mainistreach, the school in Kildare town, said her pay had been reduced by 5 percent in January after a three-year pay freeze, while her husband's had been reduced by 10 percent. "I'm just coping, everybody pulls in the belt. You just cut your cloth to suit yourself."

    Athy town councillor Michael Dunne describes why this vote is important in the context of Irish history.

    Her 17-year-old son is in high school, but may decide to emigrate to the U.S.. Asked how she felt about that prospect, she replied, "Do you want to see a grown woman cry?"

    It is a sadness felt by thousands. Kenny senior said he would be "absolutely gutted" if his son left for Australia.

    "I know it's only a plane ride away, but it's the other side of the world. Why should he have to do that?"

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    340 comments

    The people of Ireland, like the people of so many European countries, have been exploited and betrayed by the ruling elite, and now are being asked to pay for the theft and lies that have been perpetrated against them.

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  • 11
    May
    2012
    11:52am, EDT

    Married priests? Ireland's clergy crisis sparks calls for radical reform

    By Annabel Roberts, NBC News correspondent

    LONDON -- A Roman Catholic Church with women cardinals? And priests who are not celibate?

    That is the controversial hope of a group of priests who claim to represent the majority of Irish Catholics.

    More than 1,000 lay church-goers and priests attended a meeting in Dublin this week to discuss these ideas and others they believe are essential to the survival of the Catholic Church in Ireland.

    'A mere trickle'
    Their over-riding concern is, given the average age of priests in Ireland is 64, that in just 20 years there will not be enough priests to serve the country's congregations.


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    "The flood of men that used to come forward for the vocation of priesthood is today a mere trickle," Father Brendan Hoban of the Association of Catholic Priests, told NBC News. "If there are no priests, there will be no Eucharist, no Mass. We want to know what is Plan B."

    The facts demonstrate that Hoban's concern is justified: 20 years ago there were 10 seminaries in Ireland training priests. Today there is only one, with about 65 residential students.

    The group's bleak prediction is that, without reform, the Irish Catholic Church will virtually disappear within the next two decades. The organization currently has more than 850 members, representing about one-third of all active priests in Ireland.

    Why are so few men coming forward for the priesthood?

    US priests reportedly behind Vatican crackdown on nuns

    The association is convinced the requirement for celibacy is to blame and says it needs to be dropped.

    According to a survey commissioned by the group, 90 percent of Irish Catholics support the introduction of married priests.

    And they just have to look across the Irish Sea to Britain for evidence of how this might work. There a number of married Anglican priests who disagreed with the ordination of women who now serve as Catholic priests -- with their wives beside them.

    In Ireland, the Association of Catholic Priests is calling for the church to welcome back those who gave up the priesthood in order to get married. Similarly mature, married men, drawn to priesthood later in life, should be accepted, it says.

    Hell-raising holy men: Buddhist monks caught on video gambling, drinking

    The survey also revealed support for the ordination of women runs at 77 percent in Ireland. The association believes this is currently an unattainable goal but instead members say they want to seek ways for women to have a greater voice in the Church. They even go so far as to demand for the appointment of female cardinals, believing that women should be involved in decisions at every level of the church's activities.

    "If women had been involved in decision-making, the Church would not have had such a mish-mash in its response to child sex-abuse cases," Hoban added. "If parents and women had been involved it is extremely unlikely a (pedophile) priest would have been moved on to other parishes."

    The calls for change come as the current Cardinal of Ireland, Sean Brady, faces down accusations that he failed to pass on information to police about child abuse when he was a young priest. Some have demanded his resignation, which he has rejected.

    The issue of child sex abuse and the Vatican's handling of pedophile priests has damaged the Church greatly in Ireland.

    The Association of Catholic Priests believes to move on -- to survive -- the Church needs to modernize and the Vatican needs to listen.

    However, several priests have been disciplined by the Vatican for expressing their views: Father Tony Flannery has been ordered to stop writing a monthly column for a Catholic magazine, something he had been doing for 14 years.

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    191 comments

    We all know that our current Pope will not change anything. His doctrinal interpretations are rigid and conservative. That may be as he feels is an accurate interpretation of God's will but that inflexibility may also be the start of the end of the Catholic church worldwide.

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  • 29
    Mar
    2012
    9:28am, EDT

    Elephant heads to shopping mall after escaping circus

    Residents in Cork, Ireland, were surprised to find an escaped circus elephant running around a parking lot.

    By Alastair Jamieson, msnbc.com

     

    Follow Alastair Jamieson

    Shoppers in Ireland got a large surprise when a 5,500 pound elephant ran away from her circus and wandered around a parking lot.

    Drivers called police on Tuesday after seeing the 40-year-old animal - called ‘Baby’ - wandering between cars parked outside stores in a suburb of Cork, according to a report in the Irish Examiner.


    Handlers attempted to lead Baby back to the circus but the reluctant pachyderm made another dash for freedom, heading towards a nearby mall.

    One driver claimed the Indian elephant had damaged his parked car while evading circus employees, the newspaper reported.

    It said the animal was eventually stopped and escorted back to the circus, located a short distance away.

    Irish broadcaster RTE reported the circus as saying Baby broke loose and ran away because she did not want to take a shower.

    26 comments

    During High School I worked with African elephants in the summers, I never once ever experienced any of them refusing a swim or a hose down. I kind of doubt Baby refused a shower unless the handlers made a shower an un-pleasurable experience.

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  • 23
    Mar
    2012
    5:31am, EDT

    Judges: Ireland's ex-leader Bertie Ahern got $276K in secret payments, lied about them

    Irish Prime Minister Bertie Ahern denied doing anything wrong, but resigned from office in 2008 after 11 years in power.

    By msnbc.com news services

    DUBLIN -- Former Irish premier Bertie Ahern lied about the source of substantial sums of money he received, an inquiry concluded on Thursday in a long-awaited report into the dealings of one of the architects of Ireland's ill-fated economic boom.

    The verdict comes four years after the economy collapsed under the strain of a decade-long housing and banking boom, cultivated by Ahern and his Fianna Fail party, and a year after the party was ejected from power by angry voters.


    Set up in 1997, the Mahon Tribunal probed the relationships between politicians and property developers after builders made vast profits on land re-zoned as commercial.

    'Endemic' corruption
    In its report it said corruption was "endemic and systemic" at every level of government in Ireland in the late 1990s. Ahern was Taoiseach, or prime minister, from 1997 to 2008.

    Irish PM resigns over cash-payments scandal

    Ahern was one of Europe's longest serving premiers and widely praised for his work in resolving a three-decade conflict in Northern Ireland.

    The three judges led by Justice Alan Mahon found that Ahern received at least €209,779 ($276,000) in secret payments while in office and repeatedly lied about this under oath. The report stopped short of finding Ahern guilty of corruption, because they couldn't prove that Ahern gave favors to any of his cash donors when he was finance minister in the 1990s.

    The judges did find two other former lawmakers in Ahern's Fianna Fail party, including former Cabinet minister and European Union commissioner Padraig Flynn, guilty of corruption for soliciting payments from property developers for personal use. They also found 11 past and present members of local councils guilty of the same offense.

    Irish parliament chief quits after spending row

    While the report itself was a fact-gathering effort and not a direct finding of any criminal wrongdoing, Prime Minister Enda Kenny referred its contents to state prosecutors, the national police force, tax collection authorities and the Standards in Public Office Commission. Potential offenses include corruption, obstruction of justice and tax evasion.

    The report "clearly sets out corrupt practices among a number of politicians," said Kenny, who declined to say whether he considered Ahern among them.

    Ahern's former special adviser in government, Gerry Howlin, described the findings as "far worse than anything I expected or believed possible."

    Bizarre testimony
    Ahern, whose often bizarre and implausible 2007 testimony enraptured the nation, denied doing anything wrong, but resigned from office in 2008 after 11 years in power. He issued a lengthy rebuttal Thursday night accusing the judges of unfairness and vowing to clear his name.

    "I am disappointed that the tribunal has said that I failed to give a truthful account," Ahern said. "... I never took a bribe or corrupt payment. I never made a political decision in return for a payment. I hid nothing."

    Yet even his own party, whose name means "soldiers of destiny" in Gaelic, failed to believe him.

    Cowen elected as Ireland’s new prime minister

    Fianna Fail leader Micheal Martin announced after a late-night meeting of party lawmakers that he intended to expel Ahern from party membership. The decision was expected to become official March 30.

    "The receipt by a senior office holder of large amounts of money which a sworn tribunal has held is of unclear origins, and the failure to give any credible explanation, requires an unequivocal response," said Martin, who served in three Cabinet posts in Ahern-led governments.

    Trust 'betrayed'
    He said Ahern's receipt of surreptitious funds, and his delivery of false testimony, "betrayed the trust placed in him by this country and this party."

    No Irish politicians have been convicted of corruption as a result of investigations into the bribery culture at the heart of Irish property development. Prosecutions are hampered, in part, by the fact that the government passed no credible anti-bribery laws until 1996, leaving tax evasion as the only readily proven offense.

    Ahern's longtime accountant and friend, Des Peelo, conceded that Ahern's testimony had been hard to swallow, but said the judges couldn't prove Ahern was lying.

    Congress to hear retiring Irish prime minister

    "The fact that something is bizarre does not make it untrue. Some aspects of his finances were bizarre," Peelo said.

    It investigated allegations that Ahern accepted money from a developer in return for favors, a charge he rejected. He said his finances were complex but not improper during the turmoil that followed the breakdown of his marriage in the 1990s.

    Ahern had admitted to accepting an envelope filled with 8,000 pounds ($12,700) in 50-pound notes from businessmen after speaking at a function in Manchester in 1994, which he said was his speaking fee. In late 2006 it emerged friends and businessmen had lent him 50,000 euros ($66,000).

    "He told me he was telling the truth," special adviser Howlin said. "His narrative is not believed, and it is damning and it is serious. ... His reputation has been very seriously damaged."

    Reuters and The Associated Press contributed to this report.

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    15 comments

    And? Here in america, we call that "lobbying". Noone makes a big deal about THAT.

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  • 17
    Mar
    2012
    5:10am, EDT

    Did St. Patrick sell slaves to the Irish?

    By msnbc.com staff and news services

    LONDON -- St. Patrick, patron saint of Ireland, may well have been a tax collector for the Romans who fled to Ireland where he could have traded slaves to pay his way, according to new research by a University of Cambridge academic published on Saturday.

    The generally accepted account of the saint's life, albeit based on scant evidence, says Patrick was abducted from western Britain as a teenager and forced into slavery in Ireland for six years during which time he developed a strong Christian faith.


    Afterwards, the account continues, he escaped his captors and went back to Britain before eventually returning to Ireland as a missionary.

    But Roy Flechner, from the Department of Anglo-Saxon, Norse and Celtic at Cambridge, believes there are reasonable grounds to question the popular version which is based partly on Patrick's own words.

    "The problem with this account is that he was telling this story in response to accusations leveled against him that he fled to Ireland for financial gain," Flechner told Reuters in a telephone interview.

    "It's an inference that has been made long before in conventional scholarship."

    10 best St. Patrick's Day parades for families

    According to the study, published on Saturday to coincide with St. Patrick's Day, the saint may have wanted to leave Britain in the early 400s to avoid the "onerous" duties of a "Decurion", or Roman official responsible for collecting taxes.

    Patrick's father was a Decurion and, when he decided to rid himself of the post by becoming a cleric, his responsibilities would have fallen to his son.

    Slaves were his 'liquid assets'
    At a time when Roman government in Britain was in decline, collecting and underwriting taxes would have been an unwelcome task, enough to prompt Patrick to emigrate, Flechner said.

    "It is likely that at least for a while he (Patrick) held an imperial office. One way or another, I think this would have been the catalyst for him leaving for Ireland."

    The academic also questioned Patrick's own account of escaping slavery in Ireland.

    "Once you escaped from slavery you lacked any legal status and anyone could imprison you and kill you, and this conflicts with what he said -- that he broke loose, crossed Ireland and then the Irish Sea to get back to Britain," he explained.

    "He might not even have been acknowledged as a free man in his native Britain and could have been enslaved again there."

    If Patrick had left Britain for Ireland of his own free will, the best way to take his wealth with him would be in the form of slaves, Flechner argued.

    Patrick himself said his family owned slaves, which was common for aristocratic families in this period.

    "Your property would have been hereditary and in the form of land, but if you had wanted to transport the value of the property, it is more likely you would have traded a more 'liquid asset', in this case slaves.

    "In a slightly later period where we do have more sources, slaves had become a very important social institution and quite ubiquitous in Ireland."

    Flechner conceded that it was difficult to be sure of any theory about a period of British history covered by so little reliable material.

    But he added that his study had the advantage of being "free from the more reverential accounts of St. Patrick that have been handed down in legend through the generations.

    "In this case we are seeing Patrick through the eyes of Roman law which offers a new perspective.

    "None of this is to say that Patrick was not a bishop or that he did not engage in missionary activity, but his primary motives for moving to Ireland were most likely to escape the poisoned chalice of his inherited position in Roman Britain."

    Reuters contributed to this report.

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    451 comments

    MSNBC, Who wrote, edited and/or contributed to this article? It is unethical for a public news agency to post an article without identifying the author(s). Edward R. Murrow is rolling over in his grave. MSNBC is becoming very, very, very sleazy.

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    Explore related topics: britain, ireland, europe, slavery, saint, featured, cambridge, st-patricks-day, slave
  • 5
    Mar
    2012
    9:01am, EST

    Police hunt thief who stole ancient heart of Irish saint Laurence O'Toole

    Shawn Pogatchnik / AP

    The iron cage that housed the heart of St. Laurence O'Toole sits broken and empty on Sunday.

    By Msnbc.com and wires

     

    Irish police on Monday were searching for a heart-stealer, with a twisted love of history.

    Officials at Christ Church Cathedral in Dublin said they're distraught and perplexed over the theft of the church's most precious relic: the preserved heart of St. Laurence O'Toole, patron saint of Dublin.

    O'Toole's heart had been displayed in the cathedral since the 13th century. It was stored in a heart-shaped wooden box and secured in a small, square iron cage on the wall of a chapel dedicated to his memory. On Saturday someone cut through two bars, pried the cage loose, and made off with the relic.

    "I am devastated that one of the treasured artifacts of the cathedral is stolen," said the Most Rev. Dermot Dunne, the cathedral's dean. "It has no economic value but it is a priceless treasure that links our present foundation with its founding father."

    Ireland's national police force, the Garda Siochana, said detectives were studying hours of closed-circuit TV footage to try to identify the approximately 40 people who walked out the cathedral's front doors Saturday morning.

     “Nobody has ever attempted to steal the heart in the past; it was just there and it never crossed my mind that it might be stolen,” Dunne said. “It has no monetary value but we have loads of silver. It's the last thing we thought would be stolen.”

    The police said the thief may have hidden overnight in the cathedral and fled with the heart when its doors opened Saturday. Worshippers didn't spot that the relic was missing until Saturday afternoon. Nobody was arrested.

    The Irish Independent reported that the thief apparently lit two candles during the night before making off with the relic the next morning.

    "The vergers realized it was gone when they opened the cathedral at 9.30am on Saturday morning," Dunne said.

    Shawn Pogatchnik / AP

    Tourists and vehicles pass by Christ Church Cathedral, one of the landmark buildings in Ireland's capital city.

    "It was definitely there the evening before. They also noticed that there were two peace candles lit on the Trinity Altar. It's all very strange."

    Ireland's churches have suffered a spate of such robberies of irreplaceable, but also hard to sell, religious artifacts.

    Last year three relics believed to be fragments of the cross used to crucify Jesus were stolen from Holy Cross Abbey in County Tipperary. Police safely recovered those relics in January but arrested nobody.

    St. Brigid’s jawbone?

    Also in January, a thief stole the ornate container housing the jawbone of St. Brigid in a northside Dublin church. The container, called a reliquary, was bolted down to the altar. However, it had just been cleaned and so the jawbone of St. Brigid, one of Ireland's earliest and most venerated saints, wasn't inside.

    O'Toole was Dublin's archbishop from 1162 to 1180 and gained a reputation as a skillful mediator between rival Gaelic and Norman factions then fighting for power in Ireland. He died aged 58 while traveling in Normandy on another peace mission. On his death bed he was said to have declined to make a will, claiming not to have a penny to his name.

    Pope Honorius III canonized O'Toole in 1225 on the weight of many claims of miracles at his original grave site.

    O'Toole's heart had been the last surviving part of his remains. His bones were reinterred in an English church yard in 1442 but were dug up and disappeared during the Protestant Reformation of the 16th century.

    Although O'Toole is mainly revered by Roman Catholics, Christ Church Cathedral has been a center of worship for the Anglican-affiliated Church of Ireland since the Reformation.

    The Associated Press contributed to this report.

     

    228 comments

    I concur with the comment above. What kind of religion revels in the keeping of body parts to revere their "saints"? Just plain backward cultists would do this right?

    Show more
    Explore related topics: ireland, crime, stolen-heart, laurence-otoole
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